Re: Steamlines Shay smoke generator

[Chad]

I used coal. real coal and crush it up and put it in the flue with a 
brass chute I made. I use a piece of brass rod to push it next to the 
top of the burner. It works good I dunno maybe the tire thing is better. 
But the smell of the coal is great.

Walt Swartz wrote:
If you could find tires made of natural rubber (smoke sheet) rather than
synthetic rubber, it would probably smell pretty good. Once had a job
cutting 3' x 3' x 3' bales of smokesheet into pieces that could be fed into
the 'banbury' mixers to make tire rubber and calendared stock for the plies.
Plant was powered by steam engine and jack shafts, belts, etc. I'm not as
old as the mighty Geoff, he worked as a wheel wright in the pre Henry ford
days!
Keep your steam up!
Mr. Lunkenheimer's associate

 

Re: Steamlines Shay smoke generator

[Walt Swartz]

If you could find tires made of natural rubber (smoke sheet) rather than
synthetic rubber, it would probably smell pretty good. Once had a job
cutting 3' x 3' x 3' bales of smokesheet into pieces that could be fed into
the 'banbury' mixers to make tire rubber and calendared stock for the plies.
Plant was powered by steam engine and jack shafts, belts, etc. I'm not as
old as the mighty Geoff, he worked as a wheel wright in the pre Henry ford
days!
Keep your steam up!
Mr. Lunkenheimer's associate

 

Re: Steamlines Shay smoke generator

[Walt Swartz]

Lionel, now owner of American Flyer, uses fluid for smoke generation. Some
pellets are available at train show/sales, but are usually priced as
collectors items. I wonder how long it will be till our Ga 1 items are as
collectable as Lionel. Now the Lionel boxes are often more valuable than the
item in the box. Might help your retirement if you started collecting the
boxes and throw the cars away --just throw them my way!
Keep your steam up!
Mr. Lunkenheimer

 

Re: Steamlines Shay smoke generator

[Dave Cole]

At 9:45 AM -0500 5/14/04, Arthur S. Cohen wrote:
I read with great interest your idea of using tires to make smoke.  My
question is: does it make any difference in what brand tire I use and is the
tire's size important?
nah, that's too caustic ... aren't those little pellets that lionel 
and american flyer used still available? they might not last long, 
but you know they'd work ...

\dmc

ps: that's enough silliness for one day.

--
^^^
Dave Cole
Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
  Pacifica, Calif. USA  
List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
  
ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 22-25, 2004
For more information, visit the web site at 
^^^ 

Re: Steamlines Shay smoke generator

[Arthur S. Cohen]

Dear Gary,

I read with great interest your idea of using tires to make smoke.  My
question is: does it make any difference in what brand tire I use and is the
tire's size important?

Arthur--Mexico City

Re:
Subject: Steamlines Shay smoke generator


Cut small pieces of tire and burn them in the smoke box?  Tires burn real
smokey.

 

Re: Steamlines Shay, a reprise

[Clark Lord]

I built the smoke version back in 1992.  It ran okay and it is now owned by a
fellow in Canada.  How can I be of help?  I no longer have my plans as they went
with the engine sale.  You will have to jog my memory as to what step 2
instructs.

Clark

Peter Foley wrote:
> 
> Gentlebeings,
> 
> It seems I fell off the list when my ISP changed the domain name in my
> e-mail address several weeks ago.  I'm back, and bringing with me what has
> to be one of the real cherries of the list!  Yes, you saw the subject line
> - once more we'll dissect the Steamlines Shay.  And just in time for
> Christmas, too!
> 
> Actually, I ask on the part of my good friend Bill Shipp who has acquired a
> kit and is starting into it.  At step number 2 in the instructions he's
> stumped.  Has anyone on the list built one of these gems and would be
> willing to help, or alternatively, has one and is willing to peer into the
> murky depths of its construction and advise/help with interpreting just
> what the vague and ambiguous wording of the instructions intends.
> 
> regards,
> 
> pf
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay, a reprise

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Hi All.

Yes I've got one  - even on the bench.  But I don't have the instructions - 
so please spell out the problem and I will try to help.

Jim Gregg.

P.S.  Sometimes those who fight Steamlines Shays are not always 
appropriately described as "Gentlebeings!!


At 09:26 PM 12/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
Gentlebeings,

It seems I fell off the list when my ISP changed the domain name in my 
e-mail address several weeks ago.  I'm back, and bringing with me what has 
to be one of the real cherries of the list!  Yes, you saw the subject line 
- once more we'll dissect the Steamlines Shay.  And just in time for 
Christmas, too!

Actually, I ask on the part of my good friend Bill Shipp who has acquired 
a kit and is starting into it.  At step number 2 in the instructions he's 
stumped.  Has anyone on the list built one of these gems and would be 
willing to help, or alternatively, has one and is willing to peer into the 
murky depths of its construction and advise/help with interpreting just 
what the vague and ambiguous wording of the instructions intends.

regards,

pf

Re: Steamlines Shay and antivirus

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Gary

Feel a bit remiss about this one  - Steamlines did have a bit of a 
reputation for leaving miniscule amounts of crud in the gas system.  Effect 
is that either you get reduced gas flow or the gas stream does not come out 
straight.  In either  event you get reduced heat output = bad steaming.  I 
don't think any of us thought to tell you about that one 
unfortunately!I'm glad it is doing the right thing now.

The bad news is that it may recurr as additional crud gets shaken loose! - 
You didn't want to know that did you?   It doesn't happen often but at 
least you now know where to look. One dodge I have see used is a bit of 
fine gauze pushed into the back of the jet like a little dome - sometimes 
with a tiny amount of cotton wool - very loose packed - that might help if 
you have an ongoing problem.

Jim Gregg.

At 06:21 PM 5/2/02 -0700, you wrote:
>++<<  Large CUT  >>
>PS - I am  very excited about the Steamlines Shay! I finally have it running
>well. The radiant burner is going great. The tendency to loose steam
>pressure while operating was solved in an unexpected way. The fire would not
>stay lite during a club meet at my home (old story of "it worked perfectly
>until you showed up!"). I removed the jet and used compressed air to clean
>out the jet. Now the fire not remains, but the fire is hot enough to sustain
>pressure for the entire run! I never thought of the jet being dirty, since
>it had this problem from the moment I first got the engine!
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Glad to hear it Gary!!

Steam shortage is more likely to be a burner problem I suspect.  try moving 
the jet block in or out a bit.

Jim Gregg.

At 01:51 PM 2/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>GaryB,
>Success! The shay now rips around my oval at top speed without leaving the
>rails. This is important since some 70 feet of rail is above ground at high
>as 8 feet! I even had the engine push three logging at top speed without
>mishap!
>I get about two laps (each is about 160 feet) before steam pressure drops
>too low to continue without building up pressure again. Is this usual? Would
>a better burner work? Or did adding the super heater help extend steam time?
>Perhaps it is loosing too much steam from the osimoter while running? I
>think my next effort will be to improve the burner with a radiant unit.
>
>I posted pictures at http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
>
>~Gary - enjoying gorgeous weather in Eugene, OregonLoved skiing
>yesterday!
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Gary Broeder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Steamlines Shay
>
>
> > Gary,
> >
> > You are correct about the "smoke unit after-burner" which was indeed part
>of
> > Cooper's "smoke system" and not a real super heater. I installed a correct
> > super heater with stainless steel tube in-and-out of the flue and back to
> > the Osmotor.
> >
> > The spring pressure is very important but a surprisingly little pressure
> > needed when  2 springs are holding the cylinder to the port face.  I was
> > going to modify the backing plates and replace the 2 springs with 1
>mounted
> > in the center of the rotation which would have helped, but what was that
> > saying about a sow's ear?
> >
> > GaryB
> >
> >
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Gary]

I have tried having the shay putt putt around with the cylinders poping due
to back pressure but the steam pressure still drops faster than is optimal.
I may need to readjust the motor some more.
It is an accomplishment just getting this loco to navigate under it's own
power and stay on the rails. Each fiddling segment results in improvement in
one area.
~Gary - Eugene, Oregon

> I think the operative word is "rip".  The faster the loco travels, the
faster
> you have to raise steam.  Most pot-boilers have a "sweet spot" throttle
opening,
> where they make just enough steam to make up for what is used in the
cylinders
> without blowing off the safety valve.  The trick is in finding it.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Geoff Spenceley]

Thanks Gary,

Of course no evidence of that speeding, as the pics are frozen in time!
Doesn't that trestle improve the looks of the Shay, too!

How can you find time to ski? That's cheatin',  dontya know?! You could
have been suping up the Shay burner!

Geoff.


>Success! The shay now rips around my oval at top speed without leaving the
>rails. This is important since some 70 feet of rail is above ground at high
>as 8 feet! I even had the engine push three logging at top speed without
>mishap!
>I get about two laps (each is about 160 feet) before steam pressure drops
>too low to continue without building up pressure again. Is this usual? Would
>a better burner work? Or did adding the super heater help extend steam time?
>Perhaps it is loosing too much steam from the osimoter while running? I
>think my next effort will be to improve the burner with a radiant unit.
>
>I posted pictures at http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
>
>~Gary - enjoying gorgeous weather in Eugene, OregonLoved skiing
>yesterday!
>



 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Mike Chaney]

> Success! The shay now rips around my oval at top speed without leaving the
> rails. This is important since some 70 feet of rail is above ground at high
> as 8 feet! I even had the engine push three logging at top speed without
> mishap!
> I get about two laps (each is about 160 feet) before steam pressure drops
> too low to continue without building up pressure again. Is this usual? ...

I think the operative word is "rip".  The faster the loco travels, the faster
you have to raise steam.  Most pot-boilers have a "sweet spot" throttle opening,
where they make just enough steam to make up for what is used in the cylinders
without blowing off the safety valve.  The trick is in finding it.

Mike

 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Gary Broeder]

Gary,

You are correct about the "smoke unit after-burner" which was indeed part of
Cooper's "smoke system" and not a real super heater. I installed a correct
super heater with stainless steel tube in-and-out of the flue and back to
the Osmotor.

The spring pressure is very important but a surprisingly little pressure
needed when  2 springs are holding the cylinder to the port face.  I was
going to modify the backing plates and replace the 2 springs with 1 mounted
in the center of the rotation which would have helped, but what was that
saying about a sow's ear?

GaryB
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Gary Broeder]

Regarding the Steamlines Shay with the famed "Osmotor". I bought one of the
early Shay kits in 1991. I found that to get "ok" slow speed running the
"break in" period was long. For the best running I did a lot of tweaking to
the springs that provide pressure on the  buttons that hold the cylinders to
the port faces.
Polishing the buttons as well as the surface that they rub on is also
important. The addition of a super heater and flue baffle proved effective
as well.

I always thought that the dual spring buttons were the main problem with
this particular design. Unlike the center spring of the Mamod (and others)
the extra springs and buttons, as well as the fact that they had to scrub in
an arc, caused additional friction and hence poor slow speed running.

Although I sold the Shay I  still have one of Tom Cooper's 0-6-0 Austerity's
with an Osmotor. It still runs very well and will pull like crazy with it's
"sticky" cast iron drivers.

GaryB
-
 

Re: Steamlines Shay/Source of gears

[Phil. Paskos]

If you can find an old adding machine, they have a lot of small high quality
gears in them. I'm not sure if the ratios would be good, but.

Phil. P.

> > > where to get appropriate gears?
> >
>

 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Paul Anderson]

Gary wrote:
> 
> 
> Twice I opened the motor up so I could add a bit of smooth valve grinding
> compound to the valve center plate and ran for 1 minute on air before
> cleaning up the engine and reassembling. 
>
You can also use toothpaste - it works great as a mild abrasive.  Back
when I was trying to get the bearings on the Stuart 10V I'm building run
in, I took it apart and put a liberal amount of toothpaste inside both
bearings.  Then I chucked the crankshaft in a drill chuck and let it run
in for 30 seconds or so.  After cleaning out the toothpaste it was a
good fit. 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Gary

The truck gears in mine are approximately 2:1 - undocumented changes were a 
Tom Cooper speciality!

Jim Gregg.

At 08:31 PM 2/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I overcame the breakin problem with the following:
>
>Ran on air in 20 - 45 minute runs for about 8 hours before I could get a 2
>minute steam run with lots of leaks in the osimotor.
>
>I loosened all the osimotor nut bolt assembly so I could get everything
>aligned for smoother running.
>
>Twice I opened the motor up so I could add a bit of smooth valve grinding
>compound to the valve center plate and ran for 1 minute on air before
>cleaning up the engine and reassembling. This lapped the surfaces and
>reduced steam leaks vastly.
>
>I like Vance's idea of changing the gearing. Any suggestions Vance on where
>to get appropriate gears? As far as I can see all of the reduction gearing
>is in the osimotor itself. The truck gears are 1:1 at this time. I am
>without a clue where to look for gears than might work without machining.
>
>~Gary - Eugene, Oregon
>
> > Hi Gary.
> >
> > Yes they are a bit messy .
> >
> > The good news is that the control problem should get better.
> >
> > The engiine unit on these things is one of Tom Coopers "Osmotors"  These
> > are a very clever little device with all sorts of potential in both rod
> > locomotives and the likes of the Shay.  They were renowned for taking an
> > enormous amount of running hours to get run in and bedded down.  Before
> > they are run in they are little brutes, with 3 speeds -a million rpm
> > forwards - stop - a million rpm backwards.   The problem is
> > friction.You need high pressure to overcome it, and it then revs like
> > crazy when it does start.   As they run in they get much better and much
> > more controllable.As a result of the various problems with these
> > locos,, most of the ones  that are still around have done insufficient
> > running to run them in properly.   Mine was just coming good when it had
> > its gears come loose, and one cylinder cover come adrift. - still awaiting
> > fixing.
> >
> > A thing I have done is to scrape the parallel shaft where the gear seats
> > with the corner of a triangular needle file to provide tiny "splines"
> > .  This gives a better key for the Loctite.  For Loctite I use either
> > Loctite 620 or Loctite 635 - both "high temperature, high strength bearing
> > or Shaft lock" - Loctite numbers seem to vary in different countries (I am
> > in Australia) - so the description may help get the right one.   It is a
> > single component  stuff - no mixing.Keep it out of the
> > bearings
> >
> > There is an Aster kit which uses it to retain spring pins into the axle
> > bearings - and if you are not very careful as you screw the pin in, it
> > pushes the Loctite ahead of it into the bearing - that takes several hours
> > to fix
> >
> > Jim Gregg.
> >
> > At 05:46 PM 2/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > >It is hard to make this shay meander isn't it? I can keep it going semi
> > >slow, but it uses more steam and can stall. Until I know it is far less
> > >prone to leaving the rails, I will keep the valve working against steam
> > >pressure so it slows down and pops along rather than doing the 90 mph
> > >routine.
> > >I got some Loctite Metal glue. This evening I will mix some up and fasten
> > >the slipping gear.
> > >After cleaning the gear I noticed that the bevel gear hole is splined,
>while
> > >the axle is smooth. I expect the gear was made by another company. Too
>bad
> > >the axles are not splined on the gear end.
> > >
> > >Does your shay tend to spray more steam oil and water than most steam
> > >engines? The amount of mess seems similar to a stationary Wilesco steam
> > >single piston unit I bought at a garage sale for $15.00.
> > >
> > >~Gary - Eugene, Oregon
> >
> >
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Gary]

Vance,
Thank you for your significant contributions to live steam and your
suggestions.

Why are your posts coming through twice for each post?

~Gary
- Original Message -
From: "VR Bass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Steamlines Shay


> > where to get appropriate gears?
>
> Someone suggested gears for the R/C racing hobby.  That's where I'd start.
(Actually, I'd start in my own parts
> box, but I have been hoarding stuff like that since I was about 8 -- it's
genetic, I understand.)
>
> -vance-
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[VR Bass]

> where to get appropriate gears?

Someone suggested gears for the R/C racing hobby.  That's where I'd start.  (Actually, 
I'd start in my own parts 
box, but I have been hoarding stuff like that since I was about 8 -- it's genetic, I 
understand.)

-vance- 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Gary]

I overcame the breakin problem with the following:

Ran on air in 20 - 45 minute runs for about 8 hours before I could get a 2
minute steam run with lots of leaks in the osimotor.

I loosened all the osimotor nut bolt assembly so I could get everything
aligned for smoother running.

Twice I opened the motor up so I could add a bit of smooth valve grinding
compound to the valve center plate and ran for 1 minute on air before
cleaning up the engine and reassembling. This lapped the surfaces and
reduced steam leaks vastly.

I like Vance's idea of changing the gearing. Any suggestions Vance on where
to get appropriate gears? As far as I can see all of the reduction gearing
is in the osimotor itself. The truck gears are 1:1 at this time. I am
without a clue where to look for gears than might work without machining.

~Gary - Eugene, Oregon

> Hi Gary.
>
> Yes they are a bit messy .
>
> The good news is that the control problem should get better.
>
> The engiine unit on these things is one of Tom Coopers "Osmotors"  These
> are a very clever little device with all sorts of potential in both rod
> locomotives and the likes of the Shay.  They were renowned for taking an
> enormous amount of running hours to get run in and bedded down.  Before
> they are run in they are little brutes, with 3 speeds -a million rpm
> forwards - stop - a million rpm backwards.   The problem is
> friction.You need high pressure to overcome it, and it then revs like
> crazy when it does start.   As they run in they get much better and much
> more controllable.As a result of the various problems with these
> locos,, most of the ones  that are still around have done insufficient
> running to run them in properly.   Mine was just coming good when it had
> its gears come loose, and one cylinder cover come adrift. - still awaiting
> fixing.
>
> A thing I have done is to scrape the parallel shaft where the gear seats
> with the corner of a triangular needle file to provide tiny "splines"
> .  This gives a better key for the Loctite.  For Loctite I use either
> Loctite 620 or Loctite 635 - both "high temperature, high strength bearing
> or Shaft lock" - Loctite numbers seem to vary in different countries (I am
> in Australia) - so the description may help get the right one.   It is a
> single component  stuff - no mixing.Keep it out of the
> bearings
>
> There is an Aster kit which uses it to retain spring pins into the axle
> bearings - and if you are not very careful as you screw the pin in, it
> pushes the Loctite ahead of it into the bearing - that takes several hours
> to fix
>
> Jim Gregg.
>
> At 05:46 PM 2/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >It is hard to make this shay meander isn't it? I can keep it going semi
> >slow, but it uses more steam and can stall. Until I know it is far less
> >prone to leaving the rails, I will keep the valve working against steam
> >pressure so it slows down and pops along rather than doing the 90 mph
> >routine.
> >I got some Loctite Metal glue. This evening I will mix some up and fasten
> >the slipping gear.
> >After cleaning the gear I noticed that the bevel gear hole is splined,
while
> >the axle is smooth. I expect the gear was made by another company. Too
bad
> >the axles are not splined on the gear end.
> >
> >Does your shay tend to spray more steam oil and water than most steam
> >engines? The amount of mess seems similar to a stationary Wilesco steam
> >single piston unit I bought at a garage sale for $15.00.
> >
> >~Gary - Eugene, Oregon
>
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[VR Bass]

> It is hard to make this shay meander isn't it?

If you're having to fiddle with the trucks anyway, why not change the gearing?

regards,
  -vance-

Vance Bass
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Hi Gary.

Yes they are a bit messy .

The good news is that the control problem should get better.

The engiine unit on these things is one of Tom Coopers "Osmotors"  These 
are a very clever little device with all sorts of potential in both rod 
locomotives and the likes of the Shay.  They were renowned for taking an 
enormous amount of running hours to get run in and bedded down.  Before 
they are run in they are little brutes, with 3 speeds -a million rpm 
forwards - stop - a million rpm backwards.   The problem is 
friction.You need high pressure to overcome it, and it then revs like 
crazy when it does start.   As they run in they get much better and much 
more controllable.As a result of the various problems with these 
locos,, most of the ones  that are still around have done insufficient 
running to run them in properly.   Mine was just coming good when it had 
its gears come loose, and one cylinder cover come adrift. - still awaiting 
fixing.

A thing I have done is to scrape the parallel shaft where the gear seats 
with the corner of a triangular needle file to provide tiny "splines" 
.  This gives a better key for the Loctite.  For Loctite I use either 
Loctite 620 or Loctite 635 - both "high temperature, high strength bearing 
or Shaft lock" - Loctite numbers seem to vary in different countries (I am 
in Australia) - so the description may help get the right one.   It is a 
single component  stuff - no mixing.Keep it out of the 
bearings

There is an Aster kit which uses it to retain spring pins into the axle 
bearings - and if you are not very careful as you screw the pin in, it 
pushes the Loctite ahead of it into the bearing - that takes several hours 
to fix

Jim Gregg.

At 05:46 PM 2/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>It is hard to make this shay meander isn't it? I can keep it going semi
>slow, but it uses more steam and can stall. Until I know it is far less
>prone to leaving the rails, I will keep the valve working against steam
>pressure so it slows down and pops along rather than doing the 90 mph
>routine.
>I got some Loctite Metal glue. This evening I will mix some up and fasten
>the slipping gear.
>After cleaning the gear I noticed that the bevel gear hole is splined, while
>the axle is smooth. I expect the gear was made by another company. Too bad
>the axles are not splined on the gear end.
>
>Does your shay tend to spray more steam oil and water than most steam
>engines? The amount of mess seems similar to a stationary Wilesco steam
>single piston unit I bought at a garage sale for $15.00.
>
>~Gary - Eugene, Oregon
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Hi Gary.

The Steamlines Shay does NOT creep - by Shay standards it's a "Ton up and 
nothing on the clock " job  - it can and often does run several times 
faster than a Shay should.

Jim Gregg.
At 11:08 AM 2/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Jim Gregg,
>Wow, I had no idea about a possible source of replacement gears. I fully
>expected I would be best off if I replaced both entire trucks with a DJB
>Engineering http://www.djbengineering.co.uk/. The original side frames are
>amazingly soft metal. You might be right about the alloy, but I do clearly
>see a tiny lump of metal bridging each gear and the shaft, except for the
>one spinning gear.
>The mesh in these gears is not the smoothest I have ever seen. I would
>expect brass gears or delrin to be better. But with slop and not perfect
>meshing, they still work.
>I have one truck all realigned and straightened now. After buying some
>Loctite I will realign the other truck and try another run over the trestle
>loop, holding my breath as it creeps along.
>http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy or
>http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor for photos of the trestle.
>~Gary - still cutting down trees and fiddling with the Steamlines Shay in
>Eugene, Oregon
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Alison & Jim Gregg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 2:59 AM
>Subject: Re: Steamlines Shay
>
>
> > Hi Gary
> >
> > You really surprise me with the comment below re spot welded gears!   Mine
> > are "Muck Metal" - (Mazak or some sort of Aluminium based diecast alloy),
> > and the whole lot would melt if one tried the spot weld trick I think.
> >
> > The gears a on  mine (originals) are from the differential of a Tamiya or
> > Kyosho electric R/C race car - Therefore the source for spares
> >
> > Jim Gregg.
> >
> > At 12:31 AM 2/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > >Thanks Jim!
> > >I read your note after dissasembling both trucks. One axle did have a
>loose
> > >crown/drive gear.
> > >The side frames were out of alignment badly! The side frames were pretty
> > >bent up, which caused binding.
> >
> > ++<<   CUT   >>+
> >
> > >. One truck remains a bit too stiff from
> > >my view. So I have more fiddling to do. Thanks for the suggestion to use
> > >Loctite...I was thinking I needed to find a spot welder with small
>equipment
> > >since the other three gears are tacked on with one spot weld.
> >
> > ++<<   CUT   >>
> >
> > >~Gary
> > >
> >
> >
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[NJMT]

Amazing to me how the Gauge 1 shay can have the same problems as the
prototypes.  Truly amazing.  Our #6 has been out of service for several
years undergoing tire replacement and truck frame rebuild.  Took a great
deal of time to order the Lima drawings for this engine from Sacramento RR
museum.  If interested in modeling a prototype you might want to check them
out.  If you live in Ohio the drawings are available there too but I can't
remember the name of the historical society off hand.

If you have some shay books or books on logging, check the pictures of the
shays. Under the center of the older trucks you will see in many cases what
I call a hair clip which runs from one side of the truck to the other.  No
that is not a Lima part.  Its a back woods fix which holds the lower side
frames of the trucks together (or in) and keeps the trucks from spreading
after the cross channel irons crack in multiple places.   Rather common.
The hair clip and gravity keeps the whole mess together.

J.R.

- Original Message -
From: Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:31 AM
Subject: Steamlines Shay


> Thanks Jim!
> I read your note after dissasembling both trucks. One axle did have a
loose
> crown/drive gear.
> The side frames were out of alignment badly! The side frames were pretty
> bent up, which caused binding.
> I have straightened the frames, aligned the axles and squared up the
wheels
> so all rest on a flat surface evenly. One truck remains a bit too stiff
from
> my view. So I have more fiddling to do. Thanks for the suggestion to use
> Loctite...I was thinking I needed to find a spot welder with small
equipment
> since the other three gears are tacked on with one spot weld.
> http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor  Click on Garden RR Model
> Trestle and look at the end of the picture album for three pictures of
this
> sad little loco. At least I got it running!
> ~Gary
>
>
> > Hi Gary.
> >
> > I've got one too.  Thhe sort of crabbing sounds like the drive train is
> > causing it to happen.  -  Been there.   Check the sliding joints and the
> > universals are free to move well and freely - on sharp curves the drive
> > torque can stop the the sliding joints in the drive shafts, from sliding
> > and that prevents the trucks from straightening up.  This is a known
> > problem of the 12"=1 foot scale Shays too!
> >
> > Also check if any drive gears have come loose on either the axles or the
> > drive shafts - that can do funny things too. Fix with Loctite.
> >
> > Finally are the adjustable wheels set centrally and in line with each
> other?
> >
> > Jim Gregg.
> >
>
>
>
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Hi Gary

You really surprise me with the comment below re spot welded gears!   Mine 
are "Muck Metal" - (Mazak or some sort of Aluminium based diecast alloy), 
and the whole lot would melt if one tried the spot weld trick I think.

The gears a on  mine (originals) are from the differential of a Tamiya or 
Kyosho electric R/C race car - Therefore the source for spares

Jim Gregg.

At 12:31 AM 2/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Thanks Jim!
>I read your note after dissasembling both trucks. One axle did have a loose
>crown/drive gear.
>The side frames were out of alignment badly! The side frames were pretty
>bent up, which caused binding.

++<<   CUT   >>+

>. One truck remains a bit too stiff from
>my view. So I have more fiddling to do. Thanks for the suggestion to use
>Loctite...I was thinking I needed to find a spot welder with small equipment
>since the other three gears are tacked on with one spot weld.

++<<   CUT   >>

>~Gary
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Hi Gary.

I've got one too.  Thhe sort of crabbing sounds like the drive train is 
causing it to happen.  -  Been there.   Check the sliding joints and the 
universals are free to move well and freely - on sharp curves the drive 
torque can stop the the sliding joints in the drive shafts, from sliding 
and that prevents the trucks from straightening up.  This is a known 
problem of the 12"=1 foot scale Shays too!

Also check if any drive gears have come loose on either the axles or the 
drive shafts - that can do funny things too. Fix with Loctite.

Finally are the adjustable wheels set centrally and in line with each other?

Jim Gregg.

At 05:44 PM 2/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Anyone familiar with a Steamlines Shay?
>It is wanting to leave the rails a lot. Wheel guage is perfect. ISide frames
>were bent, so I straightened them, which reduced resistance significantly. I
>am not sure what is causing the trucks to crab then crawl over the rail
>head. The wheel profile has more curve than most wheels. I think the trucks
>are a bit stiff, which may cause the trucks to not flex enough for track
>that is not absolutely level and flat. Any thoughts or suggestions would be
>helpful.
>
>~Gary - enjoying plumes of steam in Eugene, Oregon
>
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Gary]

Actually, the side frames are simple stamped sheet brass. Way too soft in my
opinion to serve as side frames. In any case they are flat now, but I have
not taken a micrometer to them yet...good idea though!
Wheels are on axles square, I have checked that. I wonder if the side frames
should be a bit loose to allow some flex over rail? There are no springs as
is common in many designs.
~Gary

- Original Message -
From: "Charles Brumbelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Steamlines Shay


> Axles parallel in all directions? . . . straight? . . . wheels square on
> axles?  Sounds like maybe the journals on the geared sideframe(s) are
spaced
> a bit different from those on the plain one(s) -- especially as you had to
> straighten some.  Charles
>
> From: "Gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> > Anyone familiar with a Steamlines Shay?
> > It is wanting to leave the rails a lot. Wheel guage is perfect. ISide
> frames
> > were bent, so I straightened them, which reduced resistance
significantly.
> I
> > am not sure what is causing the trucks to crab then crawl over the rail
> > head. The wheel profile has more curve than most wheels. I think the
> trucks
> > are a bit stiff, which may cause the trucks to not flex enough for track
> > that is not absolutely level and flat. Any thoughts or suggestions would
> be
> > helpful.
>
>
>
 

Re: Steamlines Shay

[Charles Brumbelow]

Axles parallel in all directions? . . . straight? . . . wheels square on
axles?  Sounds like maybe the journals on the geared sideframe(s) are spaced
a bit different from those on the plain one(s) -- especially as you had to
straighten some.  Charles

From: "Gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> Anyone familiar with a Steamlines Shay?
> It is wanting to leave the rails a lot. Wheel guage is perfect. ISide
frames
> were bent, so I straightened them, which reduced resistance significantly.
I
> am not sure what is causing the trucks to crab then crawl over the rail
> head. The wheel profile has more curve than most wheels. I think the
trucks
> are a bit stiff, which may cause the trucks to not flex enough for track
> that is not absolutely level and flat. Any thoughts or suggestions would
be
> helpful.