[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[kevin . smith]

Version 0.4.1 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released.

Abstract:
This specification describes a solution of marking the last received,
displayed and acknowledged message in a chat.

Changelog:
Changed discovery example to use client JIDs. (gdk)

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html

Note: The information in the XEP list at https://xmpp.org/extensions/
is updated by a separate automated process and may be stale at the
time this email is sent. The XEP documents linked herein are up-to-
date.
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[Manuel Rubio]

Hi,

XEP-0409 looks very nice, but it's not an option at this moment because 
it requires a modification more difficult to be performed inside of the 
XMPP server, while the sending back of a sent based on the message (when 
it's type=chat and it's sent by a user) it's easier for me.


But I liked that a lot. If a have enough time it's possible when I start 
with the multi-device support in my development I use that instead of 
Carbon Copies.


Kind regards,
Manuel Rubio.

El 2020-10-13 20:45, Jonas Schäfer escribió:

Hi Manuel,

On Dienstag, 13. Oktober 2020 10:35:40 CEST Manuel Rubio wrote:

Yes, but I want something more explicit and don't linked to stream
management.


In that case I suggest you look into implementing IM Routing-NG 
(XEP-0409) in
both client and server. In addition to some other fixes to the core 
routing,
it also provides the client with reflections of the sent message 
(including
the stanza-ID), which is even better than just placing a sent marker 
(because

the stanza ID allows MAM synchronisation):

XEP-0409, §3.3:
When an entity wants to send a non-error message to be handled by all 
a
user's IM-NG clients they will send it to the user's bare JID, which 
the
receiving server then MUST send to all the contact's IM-NG resources, 
and

the sending server must reflect to all the user's IM-NG resources.


kind regards,
Jonas
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[Jonas Schäfer]

Hi Manuel,

On Dienstag, 13. Oktober 2020 10:35:40 CEST Manuel Rubio wrote:
> Yes, but I want something more explicit and don't linked to stream
> management.

In that case I suggest you look into implementing IM Routing-NG (XEP-0409) in 
both client and server. In addition to some other fixes to the core routing, 
it also provides the client with reflections of the sent message (including 
the stanza-ID), which is even better than just placing a sent marker (because 
the stanza ID allows MAM synchronisation):

XEP-0409, §3.3:
> When an entity wants to send a non-error message to be handled by all a 
> user's IM-NG clients they will send it to the user's bare JID, which the 
> receiving server then MUST send to all the contact's IM-NG resources, and 
> the sending server must reflect to all the user's IM-NG resources.

kind regards,
Jonas

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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[Marvin W]

Hi Manuel,

XEP-0333 Chat Markers are sent by clients, not servers. They are also
typically sent to all clients that participate in the conversation (i.e.
the recipient, other devices through carbons, participants in a MUC,
...) and for all of them except the sending device such `sent` marker
would be useless as the fact that the message was sent is already
expressed through them receiving it.

If you want servers to ack messages through some means other than stream
management, it should be independent from XEP-0333. IIRC there already
are proprietary standard extension(s) for this.

Marvin

On 13.10.20 10:35, Manuel Rubio wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Yes, but I want something more explicit and don't linked to stream
> management.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Manuel Rubio.
> 
>> El 13 oct 2020, a las 6:33, Philipp Hörist  escribió:
>>
>> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> You know that anyway because of stream management acks and if you
>> received no error.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Am Di., 13. Okt. 2020 um 03:41 Uhr schrieb Manuel Rubio
>> mailto:man...@altenwald.com>>:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> sorry to get this message too old from the list but I wanted to
>> ask if
>> it's possible to add "sent" to the list of markers.
>>
>> The "sent" will be very useful when a message is sent, the server
>> replies directly to the user with a "sent" marker and then we know
>> the
>> server has the message.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Manuel Rubio.
>>
>> El 2020-04-21 12:43, p...@bouah.net  escribió:
>> > Version 0.4 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released.
>> >
>> > Abstract:
>> > This specification describes a solution of marking the last
>> received,
>> > displayed and acknowledged message in a chat.
>> >
>> > Changelog:
>> > Add notes about usage within MUCs. (mw)
>> >
>> > URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html
>> >
>> > Note: The information in the XEP list at
>> https://xmpp.org/extensions/
>> > is updated by a separate automated process and may be stale at the
>> > time this email is sent. The XEP documents linked herein are up-to-
>> > date.
>> > ___
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>> > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[Manuel Rubio]

Hi,

Yes, but I want something more explicit and don't linked to stream management.

Kind regards,
Manuel Rubio.

> El 13 oct 2020, a las 6:33, Philipp Hörist  escribió:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You know that anyway because of stream management acks and if you received no 
> error.
> 
> Regards
> 
>> Am Di., 13. Okt. 2020 um 03:41 Uhr schrieb Manuel Rubio 
>> :
>> Hi,
>> 
>> sorry to get this message too old from the list but I wanted to ask if 
>> it's possible to add "sent" to the list of markers.
>> 
>> The "sent" will be very useful when a message is sent, the server 
>> replies directly to the user with a "sent" marker and then we know the 
>> server has the message.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Manuel Rubio.
>> 
>> El 2020-04-21 12:43, p...@bouah.net escribió:
>> > Version 0.4 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released.
>> > 
>> > Abstract:
>> > This specification describes a solution of marking the last received,
>> > displayed and acknowledged message in a chat.
>> > 
>> > Changelog:
>> > Add notes about usage within MUCs. (mw)
>> > 
>> > URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html
>> > 
>> > Note: The information in the XEP list at https://xmpp.org/extensions/
>> > is updated by a separate automated process and may be stale at the
>> > time this email is sent. The XEP documents linked herein are up-to-
>> > date.
>> > ___
>> > Standards mailing list
>> > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards
>> > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org
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>> ___
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[Philipp Hörist]

Hi,

You know that anyway because of stream management acks and if you received
no error.

Regards

Am Di., 13. Okt. 2020 um 03:41 Uhr schrieb Manuel Rubio <
man...@altenwald.com>:

> Hi,
>
> sorry to get this message too old from the list but I wanted to ask if
> it's possible to add "sent" to the list of markers.
>
> The "sent" will be very useful when a message is sent, the server
> replies directly to the user with a "sent" marker and then we know the
> server has the message.
>
> Kind regards,
> Manuel Rubio.
>
> El 2020-04-21 12:43, p...@bouah.net escribió:
> > Version 0.4 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released.
> >
> > Abstract:
> > This specification describes a solution of marking the last received,
> > displayed and acknowledged message in a chat.
> >
> > Changelog:
> > Add notes about usage within MUCs. (mw)
> >
> > URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html
> >
> > Note: The information in the XEP list at https://xmpp.org/extensions/
> > is updated by a separate automated process and may be stale at the
> > time this email is sent. The XEP documents linked herein are up-to-
> > date.
> > ___
> > Standards mailing list
> > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards
> > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org
> > ___
> ___
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> Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards
> Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[Manuel Rubio]

Hi,

sorry to get this message too old from the list but I wanted to ask if 
it's possible to add "sent" to the list of markers.


The "sent" will be very useful when a message is sent, the server 
replies directly to the user with a "sent" marker and then we know the 
server has the message.


Kind regards,
Manuel Rubio.

El 2020-04-21 12:43, p...@bouah.net escribió:

Version 0.4 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released.

Abstract:
This specification describes a solution of marking the last received,
displayed and acknowledged message in a chat.

Changelog:
Add notes about usage within MUCs. (mw)

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html

Note: The information in the XEP list at https://xmpp.org/extensions/
is updated by a separate automated process and may be stale at the
time this email is sent. The XEP documents linked herein are up-to-
date.
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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[pep]

Version 0.4 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released.

Abstract:
This specification describes a solution of marking the last received,
displayed and acknowledged message in a chat.

Changelog:
Add notes about usage within MUCs. (mw)

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html

Note: The information in the XEP list at https://xmpp.org/extensions/
is updated by a separate automated process and may be stale at the
time this email is sent. The XEP documents linked herein are up-to-
date.
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[Sam Whited]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Spencer MacDonald
 wrote:
> In regards to sending not sending an error, I just borrowed that from the
> delivery receipts XEP :-)

I agree with Thijs, XEPs should never define behavior for clients that
don't support them. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

—Sam


-- 
Sam Whited
pub 4096R/54083AE104EA7AD3
https://blog.samwhited.com

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[Spencer MacDonald]

Hi,
You are correct it's purely client based (although this wasn't originally the 
case) so determine support should be between 2 clients.
In regards to sending not sending an error, I just borrowed that from the 
delivery receipts XEP :-)
Regards
Spencer


_
From: Thijs Alkemade 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 8:28 p.m.
Subject: Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)
To: XMPP Standards 


   
  On 28 okt. 2015, at 16:50, XMPP Extensions Editor < 
edi...@xmpp.org> wrote:
 Version 0.2.1 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released. 
 
Abstract: This specification describes a solution of marking the last received, 
displayed and acknowledged message in a chat. 
 
Changelog: Fixing typo ("cannot" repeated twice) (JC Brand). (XEP Editor (mam)) 

 
Diff:  http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0333/diff/0.2/vs/0.2.1 
 
URL:  http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html 
  
I tried to read this specification today, and it left me rather 
confused. 
   From the introduction it is not clear to me how Chat Sate 
Notifications +Carbons is insufficient.  
 §4 has two examples where the client queries a server for support, 
but the entire specification reads as if it only applies to 
clients. 
 Lastly, it says in §6: 
 > If recipient does not support the Chat Markers protocol it 
SHOULD NOT return an error. 
 While it does sound like a very sensible requirement, extensions 
shouldn't be able to set requirements for all implementions that 
don't support it. 
 Regards Thijs

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[Thijs Alkemade]

> On 28 okt. 2015, at 16:50, XMPP Extensions Editor  wrote:
> 
> Version 0.2.1 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released.
> 
> Abstract: This specification describes a solution of marking the last 
> received, displayed and acknowledged message in a chat.
> 
> Changelog: Fixing typo ("cannot" repeated twice) (JC Brand). (XEP Editor 
> (mam))
> 
> Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0333/diff/0.2/vs/0.2.1
> 
> URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html 
> 

I tried to read this specification today, and it left me rather confused.

From the introduction it is not clear to me how Chat Sate Notifications +
Carbons is insufficient.

§4 has two examples where the client queries a server for support, but the
entire specification reads as if it only applies to clients.

Lastly, it says in §6:

> If recipient does not support the Chat Markers protocol it SHOULD NOT return 
> an error.

While it does sound like a very sensible requirement, extensions shouldn't be
able to set requirements for all implementions that don't support it.

Regards
Thijs



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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.2.1 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released.

Abstract: This specification describes a solution of marking the last received, 
displayed and acknowledged message in a chat.

Changelog: Fixing typo ("cannot" repeated twice) (JC Brand). (XEP Editor (mam))

Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0333/diff/0.2/vs/0.2.1

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html

[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0333 (Chat Markers)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.2 of XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) has been released.

Abstract: This specification describes a solution of marking the last received, 
displayed and acknowledged message in a chat.

Changelog: Moved Thread outside of the Chat Marker. (sdm)

Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0333/diff/0.1/vs/0.2

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0333.html