Re: [Standards] website transition
Why did you change this all? I am not speaking about Apache/lighthttpd, this is rather transparent, but why the Drupal to Mediawiki update? I was not fond of the new website, many things were to be improved, that's for sure. But I was confident it was going to be improved with the time, like good wine is getting better with time. That's also normal when you begin something new that's it's not immediately perfect. And some good things were appearing, the list were becoming more interesting, etc. . And then you just go back to zero?! I don't really understand the point here... Anyway I guess this is too late now and you won't go back. So we will just to have to do with this new thing. Just 2 last questions: 1/ is the design remaining of the new jabber.org's website like this? It is sufficient for me in an efficiency point of view, but i don't find it so nice in a beauty point of view. Not really appealing for people discovering Jabber (the Drupal version was nicer, at least in my point of view)... 2/ As a pretty new member, I am not really updated to all the organization and process of the Foundation. For this kind of thing, do the member have a voice (maybe not a vote, but at least a discussion where we could give our opinion and tell we don't think this is a good idea... before it is done and too late!)? If so has there been an announcement of this change somewhere? And finally, so that I understand how I missed this annoucement: where are such announcements done? Only in mailing lists? Could there be a summarized page somewhere of all important topic at hand in the Foundation: proposition of changes, votes, etc.? Thanks. Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=718
Re: [Standards] website transition
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Jehan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why did you change this all? I am not speaking about Apache/lighthttpd, this is rather transparent, but why the Drupal to Mediawiki update? The short version (I wrote a longer version, but it turned into a rant): Once upon a time, there was a static site, maintained mostly (entirely?) by Peter. A good number of people said There must be Drupal, so it was migrated to Drupal. Most of these people then went very very quiet once there was work to be done, and a very small number of people were left with the mess. Some of these small number worked pretty hard on trying to make things work. This went on for quite a while, until it was migrated to a wiki as something the people willing to do the work on it had a chance to maintain. Everyone can have a say in these things, they only need to offer to help *and follow through on it*. My first choice wouldn't have been a wiki, but I avoid doing work on the web pages when I can, so I'm staying quiet about it. It seems to me that Drupal was an idealistic choice, and the new wiki is a pragmatic choice. Yay for pragmatists. /K
Re: [Standards] website transition
On Sep 09, 2008, at 11:48, Jehan wrote: 1/ is the design remaining of the new jabber.org's website like this? It is sufficient for me in an efficiency point of view, but i don't find it so nice in a beauty point of view. Not really appealing for people discovering Jabber (the Drupal version was nicer, at least in my point of view)... Agreed. It'd help a lot if the guest view would lose the tabs at the top and the toolbox/website sections on the left, though. They're totally unnecessary. andy
Re: [Standards] website transition
Kevin Smith;3463 Wrote: The short version (I wrote a longer version, but it turned into a rant): Once upon a time, there was a static site, maintained mostly (entirely?) by Peter. A good number of people said There must be Drupal, so it was migrated to Drupal. Most of these people then went very very quiet once there was work to be done, and a very small number of people were left with the mess. Some of these small number worked pretty hard on trying to make things work. This went on for quite a while, until it was migrated to a wiki as something the people willing to do the work on it had a chance to maintain. Everyone can have a say in these things, they only need to offer to help *and follow through on it*. My first choice wouldn't have been a wiki, but I avoid doing work on the web pages when I can, so I'm staying quiet about it. It seems to me that Drupal was an idealistic choice, and the new wiki is a pragmatic choice. Yay for pragmatists. /K Oki. These explanations are fair. And yes no need to ranting (and fortunately you avoided to do so!). ;-) There is no criticism from me about this all. I don't know if it looked like so. I just wanted explanation. :-) The only part which could have been a criticism in my message was not: it was either a question (if this was something already existing, so I needed the answer to where it is?) or a proposition: some place to gather topics at hand, which are currently interesting to discuss for the Foundation. XSF people are currently discussing a lot on mailing lists (unfortunately there are so many of them, some with many messages a day, etc. And for my own, that's too much, so I just read them few times in a week, fastly choosing interesting topics by reading titles through the forum integration, like I did today for this one we are discussing now :p), Jabber chatroom (I don't use it a lot, if not at all either), blogs (I read some once in a while), and now there is a forum (but not many members use it). And probably other subjects are discussed through other means I don't know, and also privately (IM, emails, phone, around a table, etc.). So a short page summarizing the current topics in the XSF, the next moves (like we propose/are going to change the website because we can't take care of it :p), some major propositions, the news and the votes to come, etc. This would be nice. I am not speaking about XEP, the protocol, its implementations, etc. They have dedicated places (mainly the mailing list), and that's ok, but things related to the XSF as an organization. On the new wiki, we could such a page now... Or am I completely wrong? Thanks. Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=718
Re: [Standards] website transition
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Jehan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So a short page summarizing the current topics in the XSF, ... On the new wiki, we could such a page now... We could - it just needs someone to volunteer to do it and keep it up to date by reading the lists, mucs, etc. /K
Re: [Standards] website transition
Kevin Smith wrote: On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Jehan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So a short page summarizing the current topics in the XSF, ... On the new wiki, we could such a page now... We could - it just needs someone to volunteer to do it and keep it up to date by reading the lists, mucs, etc. Sounds like the Jabber Journal, or an XMPP Report, or somesuch. I think we're reserving www.jabber.org for pointers to code projects and other information for end users (secondarily for developers). However, at the same time as we've relaunched www.jabber.org we have started wiki.xmpp.org, so I think that might be a good place for an XMPP Report. We also have blog.xmpp.org and I'd be open to having someone post a regular report there. If you're interested, ping me. This thread is a bit off-topic here. If you want to continue it, please do so on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. Thanks. /psa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [Standards] website transition
Peter Saint-Andre;3470 Wrote: Sounds like the Jabber Journal, or an XMPP Report, or somesuch. I think we're reserving www.jabber.org for pointers to code projects and other information for end users (secondarily for developers). However, at the same time as we've relaunched www.jabber.org we have started wiki.xmpp.org, so I think that might be a good place for an XMPP Report. We also have blog.xmpp.org and I'd be open to having someone post a regular report there. If you're interested, ping me. This thread is a bit off-topic here. If you want to continue it, please do so on the webteam (AT) jabber (DOT) org list. Thanks. /psa Yes I think the jabber.org domain is not the right place too, an internal wiki on xmpp.org is probably better for XSF organization (and the blog is a good idea too). Now I stop posting here as this is off-topic! I will ping you somwhere else. Thanks as well. Jehan -- Jehan Jehan's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=16911 View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=718
Re: [Standards] website transition
On Sep 08, 2008, at 19:55, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: If you find any website problems, please let us know! Yes, my feature request dating back to the website version even before the move to drupal still isn't implemented, even though I was repeatedly told that it's on the todo list since back then :( My request was to have an RSS or Atom feed of the public server list, so I can display that list in Adium in the registration dialog. Of course, moving to a wiki makes the whole thing even worse, since there's no easy solution to that problem now (since the completely nonsemantic wiki code is the only data source). I could do some kind of html extraction, but that would break as soon as someone does an edit that changes the website slightly. All the data I need is there, I just can't access it... andy
Re: [Standards] website transition
Andreas Monitzer wrote: On Sep 08, 2008, at 19:55, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: If you find any website problems, please let us know! Yes, my feature request dating back to the website version even before the move to drupal still isn't implemented, even though I was repeatedly told that it's on the todo list since back then :( My request was to have an RSS or Atom feed of the public server list, so I can display that list in Adium in the registration dialog. I had totally forgotten about that feature request. We do have a plain XML file: http://www.jabber.org/servers.xml But perhaps that's not what you need. Of course, moving to a wiki makes the whole thing even worse, since there's no easy solution to that problem now (since the completely nonsemantic wiki code is the only data source). I could do some kind of html extraction, but that would break as soon as someone does an edit that changes the website slightly. All the data I need is there, I just can't access it... Correct. Right now I'm hand-editing servers.xml... /psa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [Standards] website transition
+1 for lighttpd, I always liked it. Pavel On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:55:50 -0600 Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthew Wild and I just completed the transition of apollo (the jabber.org/xmpp.org webserver) from Apache to lighttpd. Concurrently we also migrated jabber.org and xmpp.net from Drupal to MediaWiki. So far everything seems to be working great. If you find any website problems, please let us know! /psa -- Web: http://www.pavlix.net/ Jabber Mail: pavlix(at)pavlix.net OpenID: pavlix.net
Re: [Standards] website transition
A regularly-run XSLT would help... MattJ is good in writing them ;). Don't beat me, friend (to MattJ). Pavel On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:36:37 -0600 Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Monitzer wrote: On Sep 08, 2008, at 19:55, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: If you find any website problems, please let us know! Yes, my feature request dating back to the website version even before the move to drupal still isn't implemented, even though I was repeatedly told that it's on the todo list since back then :( My request was to have an RSS or Atom feed of the public server list, so I can display that list in Adium in the registration dialog. I had totally forgotten about that feature request. We do have a plain XML file: http://www.jabber.org/servers.xml But perhaps that's not what you need. Of course, moving to a wiki makes the whole thing even worse, since there's no easy solution to that problem now (since the completely nonsemantic wiki code is the only data source). I could do some kind of html extraction, but that would break as soon as someone does an edit that changes the website slightly. All the data I need is there, I just can't access it... Correct. Right now I'm hand-editing servers.xml... /psa -- Web: http://www.pavlix.net/ Jabber Mail: pavlix(at)pavlix.net OpenID: pavlix.net
Re: [Standards] website transition
On Sep 08, 2008, at 21:36, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: I had totally forgotten about that feature request. Yes, that's what I hear every time I remind somebody of the jabber.org- team :) We do have a plain XML file: http://www.jabber.org/servers.xml But perhaps that's not what you need. Well, I'd need the additional info available on the detail pages, too: e.g. http://www.jabber.org/web/Jabber.org esp. the description, location and lat/long. Right now I'm hand-editing servers.xml... Uh, you should know better than that... andy
Re: [Standards] website transition
Actually, if you really need it, you can transform the XML file (and other ones) yourself, it can't be so hard. Pavel On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 01:07:21 +0200 Andreas Monitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 08, 2008, at 21:36, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: I had totally forgotten about that feature request. Yes, that's what I hear every time I remind somebody of the jabber.org- team :) We do have a plain XML file: http://www.jabber.org/servers.xml But perhaps that's not what you need. Well, I'd need the additional info available on the detail pages, too: e.g. http://www.jabber.org/web/Jabber.org esp. the description, location and lat/long. Right now I'm hand-editing servers.xml... Uh, you should know better than that... andy -- Pavel Šimerda Freelancer v oblasti počítačových sítí, komunikace a bezpečnosti Web: http://www.pavlix.net/ Jabber Mail: pavlix(at)pavlix.net OpenID: pavlix.net
