RE: Simple Question

[Malcolm Davis]

I like  for the mouse over affect.   does not have a
mouse over.

-Original Message-
From: Srinivas Kusunam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 2:49 PM
To: >
Subject: Simple Question



Hi All,

  I my team while in a Code-Review we had a
discussion wether to use

   or normal   as the later one can do the
same work. One option accepted was why do we need Tag over
head if  can handle that ??

  What do you guys suggest 

Thanks,
Srini



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struts 1.1 rc2 nested iterate tag

[Malcolm Davis]

I'm able to use the  tags nicely over multiple tiles
until I use iterate tag.  After using the  ,
nesting break and I get a 'null' nested reference.

1.  Has anybody had issues with nested iterate tags & tiles?
2.  If there is a known issue, is there a workaround?

Thanks,
malcolm


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RE: all this traffic

[Malcolm Davis]

Since March of 2001, there has been almost 27K emails sent
to the list.
Why the continuous pouring of emails?  Maybe another
technique has to be developed for people to research
problems.

By the way - the separate folder technique works until you
take a trip for week and things get back logged.

- Malcolm

-Original Message-
From: Assenza, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:43 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: all this traffic


> Setting up your mail reader to automatically forward
STRUTS-USER messages
> to a separate folder, and then sorting by thread, is a
trivially easy
> approach to dealing with volume issues.  Your inbox is no
longer clogged,
> you can go read Struts mail when you have time, and can
ignore entire
> irrelevant threads with a single command to advance to the
next thread.

Indeed, that is in fact my method of choice for using this
list.  All one
has to do is look at subject headers to asses interest and
move on.  I
usually read everything I want to read and then delete the
contents of the
folder.

There are some drawbacks to this approach [or any
client-based solution]
though, most notably if you have low size limits on your
mail account or if
you access your mail remotely on a regular basis (ie. a
traveller).  Sitting
in a hotel room waiting to communicate with Exchange (or
worse POP3) becomes
rather burdensome when there are 1k+ unread messages in the
Struts folder.
Overall, still the best approach, but I can definitely see
why some people
might want to reduce volume.  However, I'm not big on the
struts-newbie list
idea myself.

-Chris

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RE: Indemnification & copyright

[Malcolm Davis]

Martin,
Thanks for your insight.  I will do some more research and
then contact ASF.
- Malcolm

-Original Message-
From: Martin Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 4:37 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


I think the main risk is due to the nature of the patent
process, the
difficulty of patent searches, and the apparent ineptitude
of the US PTO.
It's certainly possible that an Apache committer could
inadvertently violate
a patent, just as any other developer might.

The copyright issue cannot be ruled out, but I think the
risk there is very
minimal. Given that Apache is a meritocracy, the chances of
one of the
committers being dumb enough to commit copyrighted code in
full view of the
community is very small (albeit non-zero).

I would suggest that you contact the ASF directly, rather
than looking at
this from the project level. You can look at the ASF Bylaws
here:

http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html

and the primary contact information is here:

http://www.apache.org/foundation/contact.html

--
Martin Cooper


> -Original Message-
> From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:02 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> To Struts Team, Developers and Users
>
> I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
> am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
> indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
> 1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
> copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
> 2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
> 3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?
>
> The liability extends from the use of intellectual
property.
> A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece
of
> software to the Open Source community that contains
> intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open
source
> software.
>
> Thanks for any comments,
> malcolm
>
>
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>


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RE: [OT] Indemnification & copyright

[Malcolm Davis]

ha, ha!  Great question!
Nothing that I know of

-Original Message-
From: David Derry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 5:33 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re:[OT] Indemnification & copyright


And what are they doing to prevent 'accidental patent
material inclusion' by
in-house developers?


- Original Message -
From: "Malcolm Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I appreciate everybody's comments.
>
> This problem extends beyond Struts, but to all freeware,
> opens source, etc, inside this particular organization.
The
> organization is a multi-billion dollar IT firm, (I will
> leave it at that).
>
> 1.  The contribution of the copyright or patent material
> might be totally accidental in nature.
> 2.  Apache does not indemnify the software against
copyright
> or patent infringement.
>
> I like the 'receipt for cheap car stereo' analogy.
>
> Microsoft paid $100 Million over 'accidental patent
material
> ' regarding DoubleDisk technology.  How accidental I don't
> know.  But this is the fear of these corporate lawyers.
>
> - Malcolm



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RE: Indemnification & copyright

[Malcolm Davis]

I appreciate everybody’s comments.

This problem extends beyond Struts, but to all freeware,
opens source, etc, inside this particular organization.  The
organization is a multi-billion dollar IT firm, (I will
leave it at that).

1.  The contribution of the copyright or patent material
might be totally accidental in nature.
2.  Apache does not indemnify the software against copyright
or patent infringement.

I like the ‘receipt for cheap car stereo’ analogy.

Microsoft paid $100 Million over ‘accidental patent material
’ regarding DoubleDisk technology.  How accidental I don’t
know.  But this is the fear of these corporate lawyers.

- Malcolm

-Original Message-
From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 7:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Indemnification & copyright


To Struts Team, Developers and Users

I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?

The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
software to the Open Source community that contains
intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
software.

Thanks for any comments,
malcolm


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Indemnification & copyright

[Malcolm Davis]

To Struts Team, Developers and Users

I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?

The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
software to the Open Source community that contains
intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
software.

Thanks for any comments,
malcolm


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RE: EJB = bad = MS.net

[Malcolm Davis]

I think I was better off not sending that last email,
especially on a Friday.  :)
Thanks for education…

- Malcolm

  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 2:09 PM
  >> To: Struts Users Mailing List
  >> Subject: Re: EJB = bad = MS.net
  >>
  >>
  >> TGIF
  >> - Original Message -
  >> From: "Cakalic, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >> To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'"
  >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 2:02 PM
  >> Subject: RE: EJB = bad = MS.net
  >>
  >>
  >> >
  >> > == Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off
  >> >
  >> > > -Original Message-
  >> > > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >> > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:57 PM
  >> > > To: 'Wes Bramhall '; ''Struts Users Mailing List' '
  >> > > Subject: RE: EJB = bad = MS.net
  >> > >
  >> > >
  >> > >  ROTFLMAO!
  >> > >
  >> > > Mark
  >> > >
  >> > > -Original Message-
  >> > > From: Wes Bramhall
  >> > > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
  >> > > Sent: 2/22/02 2:52 PM
  >> > > Subject: RE: EJB = bad = MS.net
  >> > >
  >> > > But it's Friday now, so SSS is allowed, right?
  >> > >
  >> > > (SSS = Small Scale Spamming)
  >> > >
  >> > > -Original Message-
  >> > > From: Eddie Bush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >> > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:45 PM
  >> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
  >> > > Subject: Re: EJB = bad = MS.net
  >> > >
  >> > >
  >> > > I thought we had abandoned this thread in
  >> favor of Struts related
  >> > > questions
  >> > > =)
  >> > >
  >> > > - Original Message -
  >> > > From: "David Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List"
  >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >> > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:41 PM
  >> > > Subject: Re: EJB = bad = MS.net
  >> > >
  >> > >
  >> > > > I'm staying out of this discussion, but
  >> to answer your question --
  >> > > >
  >> > > > IMNSHO = In My Not So Humble Opinion
  >> > > >
  >> > > > --David
  >> > > >
  >> > > > On Friday 22 February 2002 01:03 pm, you wrote:
  >> > > > > IMNSHO?  What the hell is that?  Man,
  >> the colloquial shortcuts are
  >> > > getting
  >> > > > > hairy these days :)
  >> > > > >
  >> > > > > -Original Message-
  >> > > > > From: Edward Q. Bridges
  >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >> > > > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 4:15 AM
  >> > > > > To: dIon Gillard; Struts Users Mailing List
  >> > > > > Subject: Re: EJB = bad = MS.net
  >> > > > >
  >> > > > >
  >> > > > > "location independence" means
  >> independent of location,
  >> > > that is all.
  >> > > > >
  >> > > > > if you're implementing two interfaces
  >> to do (more or
  >> > > less) the exact
  >> > > same
  >> > > > > thing, and one is called "local" and
  >> one is called
  >> > > "remote" that is
  >> > > > > absolutely *not*, by any stretch of
  >> the imagination,  "location
  >> > > > > independent". _end of story_.
  >> > > > >
  >> > > > > with EJBs the method call does not
  >> "appear" to be remote,
  >> > > because it
  >> > > is
  >> > > > > *explicitly* remote.  the method is in
  >> a "RemoteInterface" and
  >> > > throws a
  >> > > > > "RemoteException" for crying out loud!
  >> > > > >
  >> > > > > furthermore, it's not about box1 vs
  >> box12.  to be more
  >> > > precise, it's
  >> > > about
  >> > > > > vm1 vs. vm12.  and, if you are writing
  >> a client, your client has
  >> > > business
  >> > > > > logic to take care of.  it's the
  >> servers responsibility
  >> > > to determine
  >> > > > > whether it should call a method at vm1
  >> or at vm12.
  >> > > > >
  >> > > > > IMNSHO, this is the achilles heel of EJB.
  >> > > > >
  >> > > > > --e--
  >> > > > >
  >> > > > > On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 05:24:22 +1100,
  >> dIon Gillard wrote:
  >> > > > > >The method call can take place
  >> anywhere, but always appears to be
  >> > > > > >remote. That could be many remote
  >> machines though. Location
  >> > > independence
  >> > > > > >is not about local vs remote, it's
  >> more about box1 vs box12.
  >> > > >
  >> > > > --
  >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
  >> > > 
  >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
  >> > > 
  >> > > >
  >> > >
  >> > >
  >> > > --
  >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
  >> > > 
  >> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
  >> > > 
  >> > >
  >> > > --
  >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
  >> > > 
  >> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
  >> > > 
  >> > >
  >> > > --
  >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
  >> > > 
  >> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
  >> > > 
  >> > >
  >> >
  >>
  >>
  >> --
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  >> 
  >> For additional commands, e-mail:
  >> 
  >>


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RE: EJB = bad = MS.net

[Malcolm Davis]

Is there an off-ramp section for EJB flares?
People can write cramp in any language or technology.
This is a Struts Mailing List.

  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Edward Q. Bridges [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 6:15 AM
  >> To: dIon Gillard; Struts Users Mailing List
  >> Subject: Re: EJB = bad = MS.net
  >>
  >>
  >> "location independence" means independent of
  >> location, that is all.
  >>
  >> if you're implementing two interfaces to do
  >> (more or less) the exact same
  >> thing, and one is called "local" and one is
  >> called "remote" that is
  >> absolutely *not*, by any stretch of the
  >> imagination,  "location
  >> independent". _end of story_.
  >>
  >> with EJBs the method call does not "appear" to
  >> be remote, because it is
  >> *explicitly* remote.  the method is in a
  >> "RemoteInterface" and throws a
  >> "RemoteException" for crying out loud!
  >>
  >> furthermore, it's not about box1 vs box12.  to
  >> be more precise, it's about
  >> vm1 vs. vm12.  and, if you are writing a
  >> client, your client has business
  >> logic to take care of.  it's the servers
  >> responsibility to determine
  >> whether it should call a method at vm1 or at vm12.
  >>
  >> IMNSHO, this is the achilles heel of EJB.
  >>
  >> --e--
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 05:24:22 +1100, dIon Gillard wrote:
  >>
  >> >The method call can take place anywhere, but
  >> always appears to be
  >> >remote. That could be many remote machines
  >> though. Location independence
  >> >is not about local vs remote, it's more about
  >> box1 vs box12.
  >> >
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> --
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  >> 
  >> For additional commands, e-mail:
  >> 
  >>


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RE: Struts behind the scene

[malcolm davis]

To be more exact, JSP's are pre-compiled into a
special servlet source (java files).  The servlets
are compiled into classes.

There exist mechanism for pre-compiling the JSP to classes,
before the first user request is received.

You can find these special servlet .java files in the
tomcat/work/ directory.

There is no rendering mechanism per-say.  In the end,
the JSP/Java files write information using JspWriter
class that subclasses from java.io.Writer.


To me, a JSP is just another view of a Servlet, without
all the ugly print statements.  The reason this is important,
is that you can do all those things that servlets can do, well sort of.

  > -Original Message-
  > From: Greg Reddin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:00 PM
  > Subject: RE: Struts behind the scene
  >
  >
  > Shelly,
  >
  > I'm not sure I fully understand the question, but I'll give it a shot.
  >
  > Struts does not generate anything.  You write the JSP's that Struts
  > uses.  When your JSP pages are invoked the first time, the web container
  > (i.e. Tomcat, etc.) compiles the JSP's and renders them.  That's why it
  > is slow the first time.
  >
  > Hope that helps.
  > > -Original Message-
  > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] at INTERNET
  > > [mailto:IMCEACCMAIL-struts-user+40jakarta+2Eapache+2Eorg+20at+
  > > 20INTERNET
  > > @alltel.com]
  > > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:27 PM
  > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] at INTERNET
  > > Subject: Struts behind the scene
  > >
  > >
  > > Hi,
  > >
  > > Could somebody explain me how struts work behind the scenes. The
  > > particular case being there is template, content and the renderer.
  > >
  > > So does it create precompiled jsps or how does it work coz the very
  > > first time you render a page it's very slow
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > Shelly
  > >

RE: Looking for Statistics

[malcolm davis]

Hello Christine,

I don't have any stats.  Sorry. :(

The following was from a presentation I had to do on justifying 
converting an application to Struts.  Hope it helps.

1.  UI - Presently, minor changes in code ripples through 
the large sections of the application.  Moving a single field 
from one HTML page to another might require touching multiple 
java classes instead of just a simple change of two JSP files.
[Struts limits ripple affect]

2.  Layering of the application - The present design has a 
high degree of coupling between layers.  This makes it difficult 
to make changes with affecting the major parts, or the entire 
application.  
[Every module should communicate with as few others as possible. - Myers ]

3.  Interface development and role development - Changes in the 
presentation layer requires change in the business code.  The 
present design requires that the JSP contain Java code.  In addition 
to code, the UI developer requires intimate knowledge of the internal 
workings of the application; a human interface person cannot do UI 
development.
[Struts, with the help of JSP Tags abstracts away the daily 
involvement of Java developers in the UI]

4.  Regression Testing - There is no way to build unit test around 
the business logic because it is tightly integrated with the UI code.
[Struts reaffirms the need to build business logic by 
forcing a layer with Action]

5.  Flow - Understanding the flow of the application requires walking 
the code.  There is not a central location for the logic flow of the 
application.  
[Struts, with the help of the Controller, allows a developer to see the 
flow of the application.  This is extremely import in large applications]

6.  Common Error - There is not a common way of handling or displaying 
multiple errors to the user.
[Struts provides a common mechanism for handling errors]

It's hard to say if Struts is the solution for you with out knowing 
the entire problem space.

I'm interested in any options.
Malcolm

RE: Deployment Problem in iPlanet using Strut Example !!

[malcolm davis]

Are you running iPlanet with SP2?
  > 
  > HI,
  > 
  >   I have strut's example binary and Source version.  I
  > deployed in iPlanet application server with NT 4.0
  > SP6.  I am getting the following errors.  Please get
  > me solution, if you find.
  > 

RE: Cookies and Clusters

[malcolm davis]

Dan, 
 
> Cookies get a 
lot of bad press.  But, cookies (or complex URL encoding) are the 
fall-back 
> when session beans are not going to 
be  used.   
Many JSP developers will shun session > beans 
because the app might get deployed on clustered servers (reverse 
proxied).  > Each POST might then be dispatched to a 
different JVM.  Session beans were not shared > 
correctly among clustered JVMs until Servlet 2.3.  (Correct me if I 
am wrong.)   > Nobody is there yet in the commercial 
offerings.
 
iPlanet does, and I'm sure other vendors do 
also.
 
I'm a little lost here about the DHTML & JS stuff, 
but you might have a misunderstanding about cookies. 
 
You can turn cookies 
off in the browser, but the Appserver should 
implement them via the 
jsessionid.  Cookies are fine 
for a cluster environment.  

The servlets must be marked as sticky, meaning 
each subsequent request will 
return to the correct 
JVM.  Of course, this might depend 
on the Appserver being 
used, and how your 
cluster is configured.At my present job, we have 3 machines running 10 
JVM’s, a total of 30 JVM’sin the cluster. If your not using 
session beans, are you using 
HttpSession?
 
- 
malcolm

RE: Loggig Mechanism in Struts

[malcolm davis]

  > > In general, I would say a framework like Struts should provide for
  > > different logging technologies to be plugged in, but to standardize on
  > > any particular implementation --- ahhh, that way lies Borg ;-)
  >
  >
  > Actually, logging is one of the places that I (personally) think that a
  > framework should stay out of the application's way.  That is why Struts
  > itself uses the ServletContext.log() method for it's own logging --
  > because that's required to be available.
  >
  > Nothing stops an application from using any framework it wants for it's
  > own logging, but I've found that the standard servlet logging suits my
  > needs quite nicely for web apps.

I agree with Craig whole heartily on this!!

Every place I've work uses a different logging mechanism.
On my present contract, they use the ibm framework.

I worked at 'emageon' for a while.  Their framework
surpasses the hell out of IBM or Log4J from flexibility,
usage and performance.  Why force developers to use
a specific logging framework?  Where's the plug and
play in that?

I have not been keeping up with the TOMCAT group.
Yet, what ever they do, I hope TOMCAT has a mechanism
to plug in proprietary logging.  (maybe that should be
something that should go into a spec)

- malcolm

RE: Struts samples on iPlanet 6.0 sp2 - newbie quesion

[malcolm davis]

The GX error is due to the fact that iPlanet 
could not see your servlet.

GX2GX means it could not find the servlet in the
iPlanet LDAP or registry.  Doing a servlet registration 
is non-trival with iPlanet.  You need to use the 
iPlanet deployment tool.

good luck,
malcolm

  > -Original Message-
  > From: Vijaya Narasimha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 8:44 AM
  > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
  > Subject: Struts samples on iPlanet 6.0 sp2 - newbie quesion
  > 
  > 
  > Has anyone deployed the Struts samples on iPlanet 6.0 sp2 
  > successfully? I
  > keep getting a 
  > 
  > GX Error (GX2GX)
  > socket result code missing!!!
  > 
  > whenever I try to run any struts application. However I tried 
  > deploying the
  > HelloWorld example of iPlanet and it works just fine.
  > 
  > Thanks for the help.

RE: Pooling with Oracle database

[malcolm davis]

  > Personally, I have found the "thin" driver to be very functional on the
  > server side, and much more convenient to use because you don't have to
  > install the Oracle OCI drivers on your server.
  > 
  > 
  > Craig

I have not done much admin work with Oracle OCI drivers.
I understand there is some work installing/configuring OCI.

On the other hand, if max performance is the issue,
Oracle recommends OCI.  Oracle has published studies showing
performance differences between 'thin' and 'oci8'.

I tend to like 'thin' because it's 100% java. :)
I can easly go between machines when developing & testing.

- malcolm

RE: Pooling with Oracle database

[malcolm davis]

> I think what was meant was oci8.  The valid values are thin,
> oci8 and kprb.

Yes, your correct, I meant ‘oci8’.  Too many cups of Java. :)

> I am not sure what Malcolm meant about the thin not being designed for
> connection pooling.  I haven't heard of any issues with
> connection pooling

The issue with connection pooling depends on your production
environment.  For instances, if you plan to deploy to iPlanet,
you can NOT use ‘oci8’ directly, you have to use ‘thin’, or use
iPlanet’s connection pooling.  iPlanet will not allow you to use
‘oci8’ directly.  This might be a problem with other Application
servers.

The typical use of the ‘thin’ is in a connect/disconnect type
scenario.  What could happen, (and what I have seen), is that
phantom connections on the Oracle database occurs when there is
network problem.  The phantom connections use Oracle process.
For some reason the open ‘thin’ driver can cause these phantom
connections.  (I don’t know why, our Oracle admin has developed
a process to recognized and kill these connections)

The ‘oci8’ starts an Oracle process for each JDBC connect.
‘oci8’ connects and disconnects quicker than the ‘thin’.

Another thing to keep in mind is PreparedStatements.  Having
PreparedStatements ready to use is a wonderful way of increasing
performance.  Instead of having a connection pool, you could have a
PreparedStatement for each thing you need to query.  PreparedStatement
uses an Oracle Bind.

Connection pooling is about 3x faster than connect/disconnect.
PreparedStatement pooling is about 5x faster than Connection pooling.

We have been able to drop some of our query times from 700 ms to 40 ms
using PreparedStatement over 'thin' connect/disconnect.
Yet, it all depends on your application and environment.

RE: Pooling with Oracle database

[malcolm davis]

Yes, your correct, I meant ‘oci8’.  Too many cups of Java. :)

The issue with connection pooling depends on your production
environment.  For instances, if you plan to deploy to iPlanet,
you can NOT use ‘oci8’ directly, you have to use ‘thin’, or use
iPlanet’s connection pooling.  iPlanet will not allow you to use
‘oci8’ directly.  This might be a problem with other Application
servers.

The typical use of the ‘thin’ is in a connect/disconnect type
scenario.  What could happen, (and what I have seen), is that
phantom connections on the Oracle database occurs when there is
network problem.  The phantom connections use Oracle process.
For some reason the open ‘thin’ driver can cause these phantom
connections.  (I don’t know why, our Oracle admin has developed
a process to recognized and kill these connections)

The ‘oci8’ starts an Oracle process for each JDBC connect.
‘oci8’ connects and disconnects quicker than the ‘thin’.
‘oci8’ runs around 30% faster.

Another thing to keep in mind is PreparedStatements.  Having
PreparedStatements ready to use is a wonderful way of increasing
performance.  Instead of having a connection pool, you could have a
PreparedStatement for each thing you need to query.  PreparedStatement
uses an Oracle Bind.

Connection pooling is about 3x faster than connect/disconnect.
PreparedStatement pooling is about 5x faster than Connection pooling.

We have been able to drop some of our query times from 700 ms to 40 ms
using PreparedStatement.  It all depends on your application and
environment.




  > -Original Message-
  > From: Robert Hentosh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 6:38 AM
  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  > Subject: Re: Pooling with Oracle database
  >
  >
  > I think what was meant was oci8.  The valid values are thin,
  > oci8 and kprb.
  >
  > The thin driver is entirely written in Java.
  >
  > The OCI is a mixture of C and Java, so that is the reason it
  > can't be used
  > in applets, since the C portion is not platform independent.
  >
  > The kprb is for, as the docs say, "server side JDBC driver when running
  > inside [the] server".  Apparently that is useful when used with CORBA.
  >
  > If you want to use OCI then you need to make sure the oracle OCI client
  > library (written in C) is installed on your client.
  >
  > I am not sure what Malcolm meant about the thin not being designed for
  > connection pooling.  I haven't heard of any issues with
  > connection pooling
  > and using the thin driver.  In fact Oracle's own documentation
  > (http://otn.oracle.com/tech/java/sqlj_jdbc/htdocs/jdbcwhpap.htm)
  >  mentions
  > using connection pooling with the thin client. Did I miss something?
  >
  > If you are trying to get your connection up ... then just use the 'thin'
  > driver.  I am about to try the OCI driver to see if there is
  > any performance
  > improvements with my application.
  >
  > > neither ora8 nor ori8 doesn't work.
  > > I receive exception
  > >
  > > java.sql.SQLException: Invalid Oracle URL specified:
  > > OracleDriver.connect
  > >
  > >
  > > rz
  > > - Original Message -
  > > From: "malcolm davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:33 AM
  > > Subject: RE: Pooling with Oracle database
  > >
  > >
  > >> excuse me that 'ori8' not ora8
  > >>
  > >>   > -Original Message-
  > >>   > From: malcolm davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  > >>   > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:16 PM
  > >>   > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  > >>   > Subject: RE: Pooling with Oracle database
  > >>   >
  > >>   >
  > >>   > Rafal,
  > >>   >
  > >>   > You might want to change from the thin to ora8.
  > >>   > 'ora8' was designed to be used for connection pooling.
  > >>   > The 'thin' driver was developed for applets.
  > >>   >
  > >>   > - malcolm
  > >>   >
  > >>   >   > -Original Message-
  > >>   >   > From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  > >>   >   > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:41 PM
  > >>   >   > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  > >>   >   > Subject: Re: Pooling with Oracle database
  > >>   >   >
  > >>   >   >
  > >>   >   >
  > >>   >   >
  > >>   >   > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Rafal Zakrzewski wrote:
  > >>   >

RE: Pooling with Oracle database

[malcolm davis]

excuse me that 'ori8' not ora8

  > -Original Message-----
  > From: malcolm davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:16 PM
  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  > Subject: RE: Pooling with Oracle database
  > 
  > 
  > Rafal,
  > 
  > You might want to change from the thin to ora8.
  > 'ora8' was designed to be used for connection pooling.
  > The 'thin' driver was developed for applets.
  > 
  > - malcolm
  > 
  >   > -Original Message-
  >   > From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >   > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:41 PM
  >   > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >   > Subject: Re: Pooling with Oracle database
  >   > 
  >   > 
  >   > 
  >   > 
  >   > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Rafal Zakrzewski wrote:
  >   > 
  >   > > Hello,
  >   > > 
  >   > > How to encode one pool of connections for whole application ?
  >   > > Should I encode this in some main servlet and then 
  > receive connection
  >   > > from this servlet ?
  >   > > 
  >   > > In struts-config.xml I have a section:
  >   > > 
  >   > >> >description="Trial access to database"
  >   > > driverClass="oracle.jdbc.driver.OracleDriver"
  >   > > maxCount="4"
  >   > > minCount="2"
  >   > > password="123"
  >   > >  url="jdbc:oracle:thin:@ado:1521:123"
  >   > >  user="123" />
  >   > > 
  >   > >   
  >   > > 
  >   > > 
  >   > > tnx
  >   > > 
  >   > 
  >   > With this entry in struts-config.xml, Struts will create a single
  >   > connection pool, and will also make it available in different ways:
  >   > 
  >   > * If you have a reference to the controller servlet (as in 
  > an Action),
  >   >   you can call servlet.findDataSource(null);
  >   > 
  >   > * If you have access to the servlet context (as in a 
  > different servlet
  >   >   in the same webapp), you can call
  >   >   getServletContext().getAttribute(Action.DATA_SOURCE_KEY);
  >   > 
  >   > * In a custom tag implementation class, you can call
  >   >   pageContext.getAttribute(Action.DATA_SOURCE_KEY,
  >   >PageContext.APPLICATION_SCOPE);
  >   > 
  >   > * In a scriptlet embedded in a JSP page, you can call
  >   >   application.getAttribute(Action.DATA_SOURCE_KEY);
  >   > 
  >   > In all of these cases you are referencing exactly the same 
  > connection
  >   > pool.
  >   > 
  >   > Craig
  >   > 

RE: Pooling with Oracle database

[malcolm davis]

Rafal,

You might want to change from the thin to ora8.
'ora8' was designed to be used for connection pooling.
The 'thin' driver was developed for applets.

- malcolm

  > -Original Message-
  > From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:41 PM
  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  > Subject: Re: Pooling with Oracle database
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Rafal Zakrzewski wrote:
  > 
  > > Hello,
  > > 
  > > How to encode one pool of connections for whole application ?
  > > Should I encode this in some main servlet and then receive connection
  > > from this servlet ?
  > > 
  > > In struts-config.xml I have a section:
  > > 
  > >  >description="Trial access to database"
  > > driverClass="oracle.jdbc.driver.OracleDriver"
  > > maxCount="4"
  > > minCount="2"
  > > password="123"
  > >  url="jdbc:oracle:thin:@ado:1521:123"
  > >  user="123" />
  > > 
  > >   
  > > 
  > > 
  > > tnx
  > > 
  > 
  > With this entry in struts-config.xml, Struts will create a single
  > connection pool, and will also make it available in different ways:
  > 
  > * If you have a reference to the controller servlet (as in an Action),
  >   you can call servlet.findDataSource(null);
  > 
  > * If you have access to the servlet context (as in a different servlet
  >   in the same webapp), you can call
  >   getServletContext().getAttribute(Action.DATA_SOURCE_KEY);
  > 
  > * In a custom tag implementation class, you can call
  >   pageContext.getAttribute(Action.DATA_SOURCE_KEY,
  >PageContext.APPLICATION_SCOPE);
  > 
  > * In a scriptlet embedded in a JSP page, you can call
  >   application.getAttribute(Action.DATA_SOURCE_KEY);
  > 
  > In all of these cases you are referencing exactly the same connection
  > pool.
  > 
  > Craig
  > 

RE: Estimating Projects with Struts

[malcolm davis]

Hello Kyle,

What kind of development envior. are you using?


  > -Original Message-
  > From: Kyle Robinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 5:09 PM
  > To: Struts (E-mail)
  > Subject: Estimating Projects with Struts
  > 
  > 
  > We have a number of projects, big and small starting up that 
  > will be using
  > Struts as a framework.  Our main concern with this is how to 
  > best estimate
  > with it.  Does anyone have any experience with estimating with 
  > Struts?  For
  > example, how long it takes to do the following:
  > 
  > 1. A basic screen (editing, saving to a db, etc.)
  > 2. A medium screen (same as above but maybe with a parent, child
  > relationship)
  > 3. A complex screen (same as above but maybe some special 
  > naivgation, extra
  > controls)
  > 
  > This may sound broad but any help would be appreciated...
  > 
  > Thanks.
  > 
  > Kyle Robinson
  > Systems Consultant
  > Pangaea Systems Inc.
  > (250) 360-0111
  > 

RE: Struts Development : tep by step.

[malcolm davis]

Title: Struts Development : tep by step.



Atul,
Have you done a JSP 
tags tutorial?
My recommendation is to 
go do a JSP tags tutorial, and then come back to struts.Struts uses 
tags extensively, and understanding tags might make it easier to understand 
Struts.
 
- 
malcolm
 
 -Original Message-From: 
Tewathia, Atul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, 
March 22, 2001 3:16 AMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Struts Development : tep by 
step.

  Is there any link/tutorial where a step by step 
  approach of developing a struts-application is given. I am finding it a bit 
  slippery to get a grip on the examples provided with 
struts.

RE: Alternative Frameworks - continued

[malcolm davis]

Eric,
Have you looked into ASP.net vs ...?


  > -Original Message-
  > From: Eric Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 1:33 PM
  > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
  > Subject: RE: Alternative Frameworks - continued
  >
  >
  > My team did an evaluation of Turbine and struts three months
  > ago and Turbine
  > has some advantages, but while we had trouble getting both Turbine and
  > struts to work, Turbine was impossible while struts was merely
  > difficult. I
  > also think the pull-MVC model that struts uses is superior in
  > the long-run
  > to Turbine's push model.
  >
  > I'm happy to report that my team is actively developing with
  > struts and that
  > we have overcome the difficulties most usually have to overcome when
  > learning struts (and likely any new framework).
  >
  > Bellow is my original message with comparison data, etc.
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: Eric Brown
  > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 10:46 PM
  > To: Turbine; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  > Cc: Yogieric (E-mail)
  > Subject: App framework eval: Turbine and/or Struts - Push vs. Pull MVC
  >
  > I'm looking for an application framework for future work at my
  > company and
  > am considering Turbine, Stuts and a few others. (My company
  > currently uses
  > IIS/ASP/SQL Server and will move to apache/Java app server,
  > Tomcat first and
  > Resin later as performance dictates, and Oracle.) Turbine seems
  > to have the
  > most features including Torque (DB abstraction) and a
  > personalization engine
  > that are important to me. However, as the push versus pull MVC paradigms
  > (http://java.apache.org/turbine/pullmodel.html) recently
  > discussed on the
  > Turbine list concluded, Turbine's preferred UI language,
  > Velocity, is a push
  > model that does not allow me to develop tag-like APIs for my UI/HTML
  > designers the way struts does, a pull MVC model. I believe
  > Turbine allows
  > raw JSP that would allow me to use Turbine AND struts where appropriate
  > although I'm not sure that's the best answer either.
  >
  > Pri Issue   ASP JSP Enhydra
  > Struts  Turbine
  > XML/XSL
  > 1   Separate UI from business logic XXX X   XXX
  > X
  > 1   Database abstraction layer  XXX
  > XXX
  > 1   Reliable, Stable and scaleable  XXX XXX XXX ?   ?
  > ?
  > 1   Growth path X   XX  XX  XXX XXX
  > XX
  > 1   Error validation and reporting  ?   X?
  > ?
  > 1   Error message separation?   ?
  > ?
  > 1   Reasonably Fast XXX XXX ?   ?   ?
  > X?
  > 2   Very Fast   XX  XX  ?   ?   ?
  > ?
  > 2   Personalization Engine
  > X
  > 2   Source code availabilityX   X   XX  XXX
  > X
  > 2   Longevity -- Been aroundXXX XX  XX  X   X
  > X
  > 2   Code reusabilityXXX XXX XX
  > XX
  > 2   Documentation   XXX XXX XX  X   X
  > XX
  > 2   HTML form rich API  ?   X?  ?
  > 2   Early compilation   XXX ?   ?
  > XX
  > 2   Vendor Freedom  X   XXX XX  XXX XXX
  > XXX
  > 2   MVC Pull model  ?   XXX
  > ?
  > 3   MVC Push model  ?   XXX
  > XX
  > 3   Strict API enforcement  XXX XXX
  > XXX
  > 3   API Extensibility   XXX XXX X
  > XX
  > 3   Internationalization?   X?  X?
  > X
  > 3   File Upload API ?   ?
  > X?
  >
  > I've tried to note what I know exists in each framework. The
  > legend is as
  > follows:
  > X - Feature exists
  > XX - Feature exists and is reasonably good
  > XXX - Feature exists and is great
  > ? - Feature might exist, unsure
  > X? - Feature exists but quality is unknown
  >
  > ASP - IIS, ChiliSoft, Perl::ASP
  > Straight JSP - See www.javasoft.com
  > Enhydra - See www.enhydra.org
  > Struts - See jakarta.apache.org
  > Turbine - See java.apache.org
  > XML/XSL - M$ Implements on ASP, Cocoon (java.apache.org), Resin
  > (www.caucho.com)
  >
  > Other priorities relevant to web server, internal process,
  > etc., but not to
  > application framework:
  > Priority - Issue
  > 1 - Staff Training Resources
  > 1 - Must run in J2EE environment (Tomcat 3.2)
  > 1 - Portability, ability to migrate from NT to UNIX easily
  > 1 - Security
  > 2 - Easy Deployment
  > 2 - Logging/audit system
  > 2 - Ability to debug
  > 2 - Search
  > 3 - Voice/WML/Alternate presentation format support
  > 3 - Reporting system
  > 4 - Content Management (other than Perforce)
  >
  >
  >
  > -Origin

RE: Article on struts (inclusive list)

[malcolm davis]

Might as well make the Struts article list inclusive:

bluestone:
http://gallery.bluestone.com/scripts/SaISAPI.dll/Gallery.class/demos/trailMa
ps/index.jsp

silverstream: (download pdf)
http://www.silverstream.com/website/SilverStream/Pages/seminar_virt_archives
_JSP_tf.html

others:
http://www.sys-con.com/java/archives/0603/mcclanahan/

http://www.husted.com/about/struts/

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-struts/

http://www.informit.com/books/authors/author_template/index.asp?session_id={
F726CFEE-6E95-4338-B2C3-8F30294A51DD}&authorid={A08A00B0-71BB-42DB-9B29-0887
9A9A7ABE}&t={94AE5B48-1D7D-462A-A4A6-83CE19EC0705}&n={4641FAF9-E21F-4902-8F6
E-0C8FAF114C62}

http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-12-2000/jw-1201-struts_p.html

NOTE:
Does not include paper journals, all the web MVC articles, and things like
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-11-2000/jw-1103-presentation_p.html

Did we miss anyone?


 >>-Original Message-
 >>From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 >>Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 1:34 PM
 >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >>Subject: Re: Article on struts
 >>
 >>
 >>see
 >>
 >><  http://www.sys-con.com/java/archives/0603/mcclanahan/  >
 >>
 >>and
 >>
 >>< http://www.husted.com/about/struts/ >
 >>
 >>
 >>Maya Muchnik wrote:
 >>>
 >>> Hi,
 >>> No link.
 >>>
 >>> Incze Lajos wrote:
 >>>
 >>> > Yet another article on Struts. You won't believe it ...
 >>
 >>-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
 >>-- Custom Software ~ Technical Services.
 >>-- Tel 716 737-3463.
 >>-- http://www.husted.com/about/struts/

RE: Article on struts

[malcolm davis]

Where is the link?

[
yes i can believe it, multiple journals, both online and other,
have published articles on struts, a product that is in beta.
even i have published one.  you would think M$ marketing had 
been involved with this product. :)
]

 >>-Original Message-
 >>From: Incze Lajos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 >>Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 3:39 PM
 >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >>Subject: Article on struts
 >>
 >>
 >>Yet another article on Struts. You won't believe it ...

RE: using struts on iplanet

[malcolm davis]

GX2GX means it could not find the servlet in LDAP or registry.

Doing a servlet registration is non-trival with iPlanet.
You need to use the iPlanet deployment tool.


 >>-Original Message-
 >>From: Fred Lo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 >>Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:32 AM
 >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >>Subject: using struts on iplanet
 >>
 >>
 >>Hello,
 >>
 >>Anyone have experience with iplanet 6.0 sp2 and struts?
 >>
 >>I am trying the struts-test.war application. I could load the 
 >>jsp without 
 >>problem, but it seems whenever an servlet is called upon it
 >>will report:
 >>
 >>GX Error (GX2GX)
 >>socket reuslt code missing!!!
 >>
 >>With the following in the log file:
 >>
 >>[02/Mar/2001 00:20:28:6] warning: UTIL-013: GXGUID: NameTrans 
 >>lookup failed 
 >>(Applogic Servlet struts-test_html-select.do)
 >>
 >>Anyone could shed some light on me?
 >>
 >>I suspect it's some sort of deployment problem but what i did was
 >>just create the .ear from the .war and deploy (using the GUI deployment
 >>tools). Did I miss anything?
 >>
 >>Thanks in advance
 >>
 >>_
 >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 >>

RE: job scheduler with struts

[malcolm davis]

I think Mihir was looking for generic code that would run on
any platform and be incorporated into the struts framework.  
The NT scheduler (at) or Unix cron are both os specific solutions.

Second, if wanted to call urls, you don't need perl, just use
the URL connection in Java.

 >>-Original Message-
 >>From: Jim Richards [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 >>Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 3:44 PM
 >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >>Subject: Re: job scheduler with struts
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>Depending on what you want to do, you could put your code into an
 >>action, fix it with a URL like 
 >>
 >> http://localhost/thingy.do
 >>
 >>and then run a job that calls the page. If you're on UNIX get the Perl
 >>module LWP, which installs command line scripts, one called GET
 >>which will call a URL for you, so then your script line in cron would be
 >>
 >> GET http://localhost/thingy.do >> /tmp/thingy.log
 >>
 >>If you're on NT, although it should work I'm not sure. There is an
 >>implementation of "at" for NT in the NT resource kit. Otherwise you
 >>might have to look at other options.
 >>
 >>Just be aware if you do't secure the page, then anyone will be able to
 >>call it.
 >>
 >>Mihir Parekh wrote:
 >>> 
 >>> We need to implement a job scheduler (similar to unix cron job). Is
 >>> there a open source schedule which can be used with struts?  Any
 >>> pointers on implementing servlet based scheduler?
 >>> 
 >>> Thanks,
 >>> Mihir

RE: job scheduler with struts

[malcolm davis]

Will java.util.Timer work for you?
It was added in v1.3

 >>-Original Message-
 >>From: Mihir Parekh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 >>Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 10:18 AM
 >>To: struts
 >>Subject: job scheduler with struts
 >>
 >>
 >>We need to implement a job scheduler (similar to unix cron job). Is
 >>there a open source schedule which can be used with struts?  Any
 >>pointers on implementing servlet based scheduler?
 >>
 >>Thanks,
 >>Mihir
 >>

RE: which development tool to use?

[Malcolm Davis]

Steve.

1.  I agree on your comments about JBuilder 4.  Great product.

2.  weblogic is not the only servlet container with problems.
After working with iPlanet and JRun, I am in the conclusion
that most likely all containers have 'issues'.
I agree that having 'issues' and being a 'hack' are two
different things.  Struts did not come out of the gate being
what it is today.

3.  Do you have a preference on Tag editors/creators?
I'm looking for something that creates/edit tags like I would a bean.
Does JBuilder Enterprise do this and I'm just missing something?

- Malcolm

> -Original Message-
> From: Steven D. Wilkinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:48 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: which development tool to use?
>
>
> Dan,
>
> You still have the negative comment about Struts and weblogic.
> It would be nice
> if you corrected that before doing whatever it is your going to
> do with this
> massive thing.
> ==
> ==
> I believe the "hack" was considered a work around, because
> WebLogic does not
> support the servlet startup concept in their implementation of
> Servlet2.2 api.
> FYI, there are a lot of commercial application servers that don't
> do a good job
> implementing the Servlet2.2 api.  My guess is that this will be
> the same with
> Servlet2.3.  So please use the term work around, because they
> don't support the
> Servlet api.  I know it's picky, but I think a "hack" brings negative
> associations with 'struts'.  IMHO, it's terms like 'hack' that
> cause people to
> respond so negatively to 'struts' questions on the weblogic support news
> groups.
>
> Another criticism about you comparison. Under struts you put the
> following:
> ==
> =
> -Requires a lot of redundancy per form field.
> I disagree with this.  Now that the JSP pages can use the dot
> operator you don't
> have to expose attributes to the ActionForm implementation.
>
> For example:
> public class Registration extends ActionForm {
>   private User user = new User();
>public User getUser() {
>   return user;
>}
>
>public void setUser(User user) {
>   this.user = user;
>}
> }
>
> public final class User implements Serializable {
>private String firstName = null;
>private String lastName = null;
>private String title = null;
>private String userName = null;
>private String password = null;
>private String confirmPassword = null;
>private String passwordHint = null;
>private Address userAddress = new Address();
>private Address billingAddress = new Address();
>private String email = null;
>
>... getters/and setter for each
> }
>
> And The address class has traditional address1, address2, etc.
>
> Now in the JSP page you can do this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> Now please show me where the redunancy is on the form page?  I
> agree prior to
> the new reflection and introspection logic within the util
> package, you did have
> to have redundant stuff in the implemented ActionForm.  Now that
> is not true.
> Please correct this.  It is negative on 'struts'.
>
>
> BTW, I also observed positive you were in describing you own framework.
> +Uses JSP as controller, so you don't have to restart the server
> all the time.
> +Uses a StateManager class to abstract the problem of
> statelessness on the web.
> +JSP's don't have to know which bean(s) their fields are bound to.
>
> I take it your's doesn't have any negatives?  Just kidding.  I
> thought I read an
> earlier message where you abandoned your effort to support
> struts.  Is that
> true?
>
> I don't mean to pick on your document, but you did offer it to
> the mail list.
> Since I'm such a strong supporter of 'struts' I just HAD to
> comment.  Hope you
> don't mind.
>
> FYI, with JBuilder4 Professional Edition you have the ability to debug JSP
> pages.  Professional is in between Foundation and Enterprise.
>
> Personally I use JBuilder4 for debugging.  I was converted on my current
> contract to JBuilder4.  It is soo much better than JBuilder3 and
> 3.5.1.  I never
> could get with the interface on NetBeans or Forte.  It seemed
> klunky to me.
> However, I'm an old JBuilder3 user.  I did have to abandon
> JBuilder3 because it
> used to have extremely high disk activity.  I have used vim since
> then until
> now.  JBuilder4 is really good and it is nice to have a Java
> based product have
> such high marks.  Another Java based product that I TRULY love is
> TogetherJ4.
> This blows away Rational's offering.  Did you know that you could
> generate a
> sequence diagram automatically?  Then did you know that you could
> change that to
> a collaboration diagram and back?  Truly awesome product.  FYI,
> when I encounter
> such wonderful Java based products I usually buy them.  However,
> I do have my
> own company otherwise th

RE: which development tool to use?

[Malcolm Davis]

Steve.

1.  I agree on your comments about JBuilder 4.  Great product.

2.  weblogic is not the only servlet container with problems.
After working with iPlanet and JRun, I am in the conclusion
that most likely all containers have 'issues'.
I agree that having 'issues' and being a 'hack' are two
different things.  Struts did not come out of the gate being
what it is today.

3.  Do you have a preference on Tag editors/creators?
I'm looking for something that creates/edit tags like I would a bean.
Does JBuilder Enterprise do this and I'm just missing something?

- Malcolm


> -Original Message-
> From: Steven D. Wilkinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:48 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: which development tool to use?
>
>
> Dan,
>
> You still have the negative comment about Struts and weblogic.
> It would be nice
> if you corrected that before doing whatever it is your going to
> do with this
> massive thing.
> ==
> ==
> I believe the "hack" was considered a work around, because
> WebLogic does not
> support the servlet startup concept in their implementation of
> Servlet2.2 api.
> FYI, there are a lot of commercial application servers that don't
> do a good job
> implementing the Servlet2.2 api.  My guess is that this will be
> the same with
> Servlet2.3.  So please use the term work around, because they
> don't support the
> Servlet api.  I know it's picky, but I think a "hack" brings negative
> associations with 'struts'.  IMHO, it's terms like 'hack' that
> cause people to
> respond so negatively to 'struts' questions on the weblogic support news
> groups.
>
> Another criticism about you comparison. Under struts you put the
> following:
> ==
> =
> -Requires a lot of redundancy per form field.
> I disagree with this.  Now that the JSP pages can use the dot
> operator you don't
> have to expose attributes to the ActionForm implementation.
>
> For example:
> public class Registration extends ActionForm {
>   private User user = new User();
>public User getUser() {
>   return user;
>}
>
>public void setUser(User user) {
>   this.user = user;
>}
> }
>
> public final class User implements Serializable {
>private String firstName = null;
>private String lastName = null;
>private String title = null;
>private String userName = null;
>private String password = null;
>private String confirmPassword = null;
>private String passwordHint = null;
>private Address userAddress = new Address();
>private Address billingAddress = new Address();
>private String email = null;
>
>... getters/and setter for each
> }
>
> And The address class has traditional address1, address2, etc.
>
> Now in the JSP page you can do this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> Now please show me where the redunancy is on the form page?  I
> agree prior to
> the new reflection and introspection logic within the util
> package, you did have
> to have redundant stuff in the implemented ActionForm.  Now that
> is not true.
> Please correct this.  It is negative on 'struts'.
>
>
> BTW, I also observed positive you were in describing you own framework.
> +Uses JSP as controller, so you don't have to restart the server
> all the time.
> +Uses a StateManager class to abstract the problem of
> statelessness on the web.
> +JSP's don't have to know which bean(s) their fields are bound to.
>
> I take it your's doesn't have any negatives?  Just kidding.  I
> thought I read an
> earlier message where you abandoned your effort to support
> struts.  Is that
> true?
>
> I don't mean to pick on your document, but you did offer it to
> the mail list.
> Since I'm such a strong supporter of 'struts' I just HAD to
> comment.  Hope you
> don't mind.
>
> FYI, with JBuilder4 Professional Edition you have the ability to debug JSP
> pages.  Professional is in between Foundation and Enterprise.
>
> Personally I use JBuilder4 for debugging.  I was converted on my current
> contract to JBuilder4.  It is soo much better than JBuilder3 and
> 3.5.1.  I never
> could get with the interface on NetBeans or Forte.  It seemed
> klunky to me.
> However, I'm an old JBuilder3 user.  I did have to abandon
> JBuilder3 because it
> used to have extremely high disk activity.  I have used vim since
> then until
> now.  JBuilder4 is really good and it is nice to have a Java
> based product have
> such high marks.  Another Java based product that I TRULY love is
> TogetherJ4.
> This blows away Rational's offering.  Did you know that you could
> generate a
> sequence diagram automatically?  Then did you know that you could
> change that to
> a collaboration diagram and back?  Truly awesome product.  FYI,
> when I encounter
> such wonderful Java based products I usually buy them.  However,
> I do have my
> own company otherwise t

RE: Struts Webapp deployment Jar or naked classes?

[Malcolm Davis]

I have had success by putting the absolute pathname of the jar in the
classpath.
Example:  /dirpath/struts.jar.

I'm having the same problem with NT.  Struts (or maybe Tomcat)
is not picking up the Jars in the WEB-INF/lib directory.  So, I put
the entire path in the CLASSPATH variable.  I don't like the solution.

- Malcolm

> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Bolin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:20 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Struts Webapp deployment Jar or naked classes?
>
>
> RE: Can a Tomcat/Struts application work with Apache 1.3.X in a
> JAR file only?
>
> Setup/Configuration:
> ---
> Apache 1.3.12
> Mod_jk connector Tomcat 3.2.1
> Struts 1.0 CVS
> OS: HP-UX 11.0
> Java 1.2.2
>
>
> I have tried several deployment methods for a webapp application
> under Struts 1.0 CVS
> trying to utilize a JAR file instead of a naked class hierarchy
> under WEB-INF/classes.
>
> I placed my webapp jar file in WEB-INF/lib and tried
> WEB-INF/classes without
> success (they are in my classpath). Can a webapp be deployed
> using Struts with just
> a JAR file? Yes - my struts.jar lives in WEB-INF/lib. From what I
> have seen
> in this group it looks like it will have to be a naked  classes
> file hierarchy under
> WEB-INF/classes. Am I wrong?
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Ron
>
>

RE: Article on JavaWorld

[Malcolm Davis]

Just a Note:
Open-source aside, making medications (patches) to
code for work around in libraries, frameworks,
even compilers and os, has always been part of software development.

Maybe we should have a Struts offramp.
- Malcolm

> -Original Message-
> From: Lacerda, Wellington (AFIS) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 3:00 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: Article on JavaWorld
>
>
> I agree 100% with you. I've had some bitter experiences with that myself
> (and that's why I'm writing a book on tag libraries right now - AND Struts
> !). But you must concede that, as in my case,  there are
> environments where
> life is not made to be that easy.
>
> But you must to concede that, even with tag libraries life don't
> become that
> easier. Reuse is a tricky thing to acquire. You can't reuse too
> much neither
> too few. There are other risks with tags, while components, like component
> super overloading (too few tags that make too MANY things) or component
> superabundancy (too many of them doing ALMOST the same things). Or, as I
> commented, what if the tags just aren't adequate ?
>
> What I was trying to say there is that the argument must be based
> in all the
> shades of gray, and there's no such thing as "THE TRUE POWER" of Struts in
> rigid application models. As far as I'm concerned, I see the true power of
> Struts in its ability to accommodate all those situations and still
> providing a sound and elegant alternative for each case. It is that what
> seduced me into the project.
>
> Regarding the article, I see it providing some interesting ideas for a
> problem Struts has: excess of beans we have to code for LARGE
> applications.
> There's no technical argument to break the resistance against a BORING
> procedure (culture ALWAYS breaks technique - we must remember that). I
> provided once a tentative solution creating some tool (FBBuilder - form
> beans builder) to try to figure the beans out automatically.
> Didn't get much
> response (I can understand that). This is another approach,
> generalising the
> bean concept. We will have to figure out something about that problem, and
> this seems to be a good candidate. Regarding the idea of changing
> BeanUtils,
> ok, why not sub-classing it with an AutoBeanUtils class instead ?
>
> Wellington
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From:   Dave Harms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   Sent:   06 December 2000 03:26
>   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dave Harms
>   Subject:Re: Article on JavaWorld
>
>   Wellington,
>
>   > but...what if the company has only Java programmers as
>   > JSP designers ? Most of these arguments are based on
> cultural more than
>   > technical reasons.
>
>   There are still problems with, for example, scriptlets even
> in a
>   situation like this. JSPs are not a particularly
> code-friendly
>   environment. And re-use is more difficult. So I think even
> if the Java
>   programmers are designing the pages, using scriptlets will
> tend to make
>   life more difficult. I think these are sound technical
> objections.
>
>   Dave
>
>   Dave Harms
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: term mvc model-2

[Malcolm Davis]

Thanks, I understand the differences.
I just wanted to know who coined the term or where it originated.
Did someone at Sun say “lets call it model 2”, or
did it actually have some significance?
Thanks,
Malcolm

> -Original Message-
> From: Nicolas Noël [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:53 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: term mvc model-2
>
>
> you can see the differences between model 1 and model 2 at:
> http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-12-1999/jw-12-ssj-jspmvc.html
>
>
>
> -Message d'origine-
> De : Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Envoyé : lundi 4 décembre 2000 13:31
> À : Struts List
> Cc : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet : Re: term mvc model-2
>
>
> According to Marty Hall, "In early JSP specifications, this approach
> was known as the model 2 approach to JSP." (Core Serlets, pg 354).
>
> *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
>
> On 12/3/2000 at 9:20 PM Malcolm Davis wrote:
>
> Does anybody know where the term Model-2 originated?
> thanks,
> malcolm
>
>

term mvc model-2

[Malcolm Davis]

Does anybody know where the term Model-2 originated?
thanks,
malcolm

RE: Actions - design question + an offtopic question

[Malcolm Davis]

This "Security" issue has always bothered me.
The servlet API provides a Form Based Authentication via 'j_username' and '
j_password'.
Tomcat supports this feature, but I don't see it in Struts.

Are there plans to support Form Based Authentication via 'j_username' and '
j_password'
Thans,
Malcolm

> -Original Message-
> From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 2:06 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Actions - design question + an offtopic question
>
>
> Joe Peer wrote:
>
> > hi,
> >
> > i just read Craig's answer to denis' question and i was
> wondering if there
> > is some kind of "j2ee compliant" way of doing user auth and
> role-asignment -
> > are there any standards one is supposed to use
> > (i apologize for this offtopic question, since it's not an
> struts issue, i
> > guess)
> >
>
> Well, it's not off topic if you want to use Struts-based apps in a J2EE
> environment :-).
>
> >
> > today i always use my own user/roles tables in my (relational)
> database and
> > i am doing all these things "by hand, means by jdbc queries" - should i
> > change that?
> >
>
> The J2EE recommendation for this is to use container-managed
> security (i.e. the
>  elements defined in web.xml) for user
> authentication and
> access control.  Doing so means that the container is taking care of these
> issues for you, and (perhaps more importantly) that user
> identities are shared
> between the web layer and the EJB layer, because the server will
> be using the
> same underlying "database" of users and roles.
>
> The only downside to this approach is that there is not yet a
> standardized API
> for portably accessing and maintaining a "database" of users and
> roles (I'm
> putting "database" in quotes because the actual implementation
> could be pretty
> much anything, including static text files or directory servers).
>
> Instead, most servers provide a server-specific API to do this
> kind of thing.
> For example, in Tomcat you can implement an API called a Realm
> that talks to
> your existing database of users, and then tell Tomcat to use this Realm
> implementation for user authentication.  In that way, new users
> added to the
> database (by whatever means) become instantly authorized for web
> use also.  If
> you were to switch to a different engine, you would need to
> re-implement this
> function according to the APIs provided by the new server, but
> you would not
> need to update your applications.
>
> >
> > any hint / pointer to doc / suggestions would be nice!
>
> The API that I'm the most familiar with is Tomcat -- if you grab
> the source
> distribution of the "jakarta-tomcat-4.0" CVS module from
> , look in file
>
> catalina/src/share/org/apache/catalina/Realm.java
>
> for the details of what you have to implement to create your own
> Realm.  There
> is even a provided JDBCRealm implementation that lets you connect
> Tomcat to a
> database already -- all you need to do is configure it in the
> conf/server.xml
> file, and there are several examples commented out in the stock
> version of this
> file.
>
>
> >
> > joe
> >
>
> Craig
>
>
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Craig R. McClanahan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 6:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Actions - design question
> >
> > > Denis Hanson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I am starting to move our existing web application to the struts
> > framework
> > > > and would like to ask a design question.
> > > >
> > > > Here's my problem. After logon, the application user is
> forwarded to one
> > of
> > > > three screens - sysadmin, admin, user.  The screen used is
> determined by
> > the
> > > > user's role.  (The three screens have no commonality, so I
> don't think I
> > can
> > > > use the one  action attrubute
> shown in the
> > > > example application.)
> > > >
> > > > I'm looking for some way to define the various paths in
> > struts-config.xml so
> > > > that the logon action class doesn't have hardcoded paths to
> the three
> > > > role-based screens.
> > > >
> > > > Do I need to create my own ActionMapping class and add additional
> >  > > > name=/> entries, or is there some other way to do this?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Because we're talking about "what does the logon action
> forward to", you
> > won't
> > > need any additional action definitions.  However, you might want some
> > additional
> > > forwards defined.  For concreteness, let's assume that your
> three roles
> > are
> > > named "admin", "manager", and "user".
> > >
> > > One approach to this would be to define, nested within the 
> > element for
> > > the login action, some forwards that are specific to only this action:
> > >
> > > 
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > ...
> > >  > type="com.mycompany.mypackage.LoginAction">
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> >

RE: Java.exe Application Error

[Malcolm Davis]

I think Ray might be correct.  The JDBC/ODBC bridge does have some issues.
Have you run any JDBC/ODBC stress test against SQL Server outside of tomcat?
Does this error occur when you make a JDBC call?

I have run IIS & Tomcat without an issue, but I was not
using SQL Server.


> -Original Message-
> From: Ray Power [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 12:35 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Java.exe Application Error
>
>
> I think the odbc bridge is responsible for the error.
> My own experience with the bridge has been very unsatisfactory. It is
> generally regarded as unstable. It uses JNI and can (and often does) crash
> the VM itself.
>
> Try a type-4 driver such as i-Net or Weblogic.
>
> Ray
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sam T.Stanley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 21 November 2000 06:28
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Java.exe Application Error
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> > I am using IIS with Tomcat in NT Server.Everthing
> >  works fine(?) except it results in "java.exe"
> >  Application Error and the tomcat console is closed on clicking "ok"
> >  please suggest me a solution
> >  I am using html,jsp,servlet in this web application.
> >  Also using sql server 6.5 with odbc bridge.
> >
> > jdk1.2.2
> > Tomcat3.1
> > IIS 4.0
> > NT pack 6
> >
> > please help.
> >
> > Stanley
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
>

RE: IIS and Struts

[Malcolm Davis]

Great question.  I would assume so, but you would still
need to have the Servlet/JSP container engine installed.

1. You need to download and install Tomcat.
2. After installing Tomcat, you can setup Tomcat to work with IIS:
http://jakarta.apache.org/cvsweb/index.cgi/~checkout~/jakarta-tomcat/etc/Att
ic/tomcat-iis-howto.html?


I would install Tomcat and Struts first, get that going,
then put in the hook for IIS.

Good luck,
Malcolm
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 4:06 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: IIS and Struts
>
>
> Can anyone tell me if Struts works w/ IIS? If so, can anyone
> point me to a
> tutorial on setting it up. Thanks
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Poll: How important is JDK 1.1 compatibility for you ?

[Malcolm Davis]

Yes 1.2 and 1.3 are superior, 
but some OS and vendors still only support 1.1.

For instances:
I don't know if MAC supports 1.2, for a long time
MAC was always a version behind.

If no struts users are using 1.1 tools, go forward.

- Malcolm


> -Original Message-
> From: Charles Beckham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 1:39 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Poll: How important is JDK 1.1 compatibility for you ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> please why would anyone want jdk1.1 compatibility?
> what a useless poll...maybe we should change the date
> to 1999?
> 
> jdk1.2.X is so superior
> 
> cb
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: shankar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 10:37 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Poll: How important is JDK 1.1 compatibility for you ?
> 
> 
> I would like Struts to be JDK1.1 compatible 
> NO
> > I'm actually using Struts in a JDK1.1 environment 
> NO(I'm using 1.3)
> - Original Message - 
> From: Matthias Kerkhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Matthias Kerkhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 7:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Poll: How important is JDK 1.1 compatibility for you ?
> 
> 
> > Until today I've received 21 answers. The opinions have been...
> > 
> > > I would like Struts to be JDK1.1 compatible (YES/NO).
> > 
> > YES:1 NO:20
> > 
> > > I'm actually using Struts in a JDK1.1 environment (YES/NO).
> > 
> > YES:0 NO:21
> > 
> > -- 
> > Matthias(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > 
> 
> 

RE: Logging API, IBM, JLog

[Malcolm Davis]

Yes, I meant log4j.org.
Thanks for the correction, my apology.

> -Original Message-
> From: Wong Kok Wai [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 9:33 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Logging API, IBM, JLog
> 
> 
> JLog? Are you referring to Log4j.org instead?
> 
> Malcolm Davis wrote:
> 
> >
> > The IBM logging framework at AlphaWorks looks
> > entirely different than the one at Jlog.org
> >
> > - Malcolm
> 

Logging API, IBM, JLog

[Malcolm Davis]

I reviewed some of the Logging API at
http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/communityprocess/review/jsr047/index.html,
and it looks extremely similar to the IBM package at
http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/loggingtoolkit4j

Some of the classes have the same name, purpose and
similar interfaces, such as SocketHandler.  Even the
framework layout looks similar.

The IBM logging framework at AlphaWorks looks
entirely different than the one at Jlog.org

- Malcolm