RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Savantraj, Chennamakal Subramanian wrote: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:21:52 +0800 From: Savantraj, Chennamakal Subramanian [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? By considering complcated GUI, we are planning to move to Swing Applications, which are deployed using WEB START. Our idea is to use a controller to Navigate between Swing Application and Server side Business Logic. So the core business Logic still run in server and GUI components run Locally.Not decided yet how to Transfer Data back and forth between Application and Server.Pls share your experience.. Any serious problem(s) with this approach? In general, this is a viable solution for UIs that are not amenable to the limitations of HTML browsers, and/or need to run in an environment where a browser is not available. The primary downsides are that your user must download a JVM if they don't have one (although only once), and your developers must know both Swing and HTML if you're delivering the same app both ways. For client-server communication, you could look at a web services style approach, or perhaps design some Struts actions that accept serialized Java objects represent the request and return a serialized Java object containing the results. The request-response nature of HTTP is actually quite helpful for this sort of requirement. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Daniel Joshua wrote: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:36:18 +0800 From: Daniel Joshua [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Yup I read it... I also read an article on it at http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-11-2002/jw-1129-jsf.html But, my question is, how long before it will be ready for use? There will be at least one more EA type release (and I'll release an EA of a Struts integration library at the same time), with final release of JavaServer Faces aimed at sometime next year. Sorry I can't be more precise than that ... the schedule's under discussion in the Expert Group. PS: It looks cool! Thanks ... it's designed to be cool :-). Regards, Daniel Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:28:39 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok in principle then it seems fine it's just I don't like the fact that a scripting language whether client or server side can be embedded in the presentation logic, it still seems like a bit of a workaround. Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? I've wondered about whether the Model2X approach and the Model 2 approach for some while now and it seems like the latter doesn't seperate the concerns as much as Model 2X. The only thing that makes me doubt this is the fact that Sun and yourself have gone this way via the Model 2 approach with Java Server Faces rather than the Model 2 approach. Is there any particular reason why this method is preferred over the Model 2X approach? You'll have to point me at a definition of what you mean by Model 2X -- I've seen the term bandied about, but don't know of any formal description. Regarding JavaServer Faces in particular, it is *not* a goal of JSF to be focused purely on HTML as the markup language. There will be a set of common components included, but no requirement that HTML be the only way they are rendered. I fully expect to see JSF implementations using all sorts of other technologies as well. Jon. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
For Model 2X try http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-02-2002/jw-0201-strutsxslt.html http://www.orbeon.com/oxf/whitepaper.xhtml http://www.orbeon.com/oxf/ Regards Wendy -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:18 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:28:39 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok in principle then it seems fine it's just I don't like the fact that a scripting language whether client or server side can be embedded in the presentation logic, it still seems like a bit of a workaround. Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? I've wondered about whether the Model2X approach and the Model 2 approach for some while now and it seems like the latter doesn't seperate the concerns as much as Model 2X. The only thing that makes me doubt this is the fact that Sun and yourself have gone this way via the Model 2 approach with Java Server Faces rather than the Model 2 approach. Is there any particular reason why this method is preferred over the Model 2X approach? You'll have to point me at a definition of what you mean by Model 2X -- I've seen the term bandied about, but don't know of any formal description. Regarding JavaServer Faces in particular, it is *not* a goal of JSF to be focused purely on HTML as the markup language. There will be a set of common components included, but no requirement that HTML be the only way they are rendered. I fully expect to see JSF implementations using all sorts of other technologies as well. Jon. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? Flash! ;-) btw: I havent had time to look at JSF yet. Glad to hear its not just for rendering HTML, but is it applicable to JSP based rendering approaches only, or more generic than that? -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 09:18 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:28:39 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok in principle then it seems fine it's just I don't like the fact that a scripting language whether client or server side can be embedded in the presentation logic, it still seems like a bit of a workaround. Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? I've wondered about whether the Model2X approach and the Model 2 approach for some while now and it seems like the latter doesn't seperate the concerns as much as Model 2X. The only thing that makes me doubt this is the fact that Sun and yourself have gone this way via the Model 2 approach with Java Server Faces rather than the Model 2 approach. Is there any particular reason why this method is preferred over the Model 2X approach? You'll have to point me at a definition of what you mean by Model 2X -- I've seen the term bandied about, but don't know of any formal description. Regarding JavaServer Faces in particular, it is *not* a goal of JSF to be focused purely on HTML as the markup language. There will be a set of common components included, but no requirement that HTML be the only way they are rendered. I fully expect to see JSF implementations using all sorts of other technologies as well. Jon. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Andrew Hill wrote: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:02:34 +0800 From: Andrew Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? Flash! ;-) But isn't that still essentially client side scripting embedded in the presentation logic? :-) btw: I havent had time to look at JSF yet. Glad to hear its not just for rendering HTML, but is it applicable to JSP based rendering approaches only, or more generic than that? JSF is not applicable only to JSP. There is a Java API that talks to the component layer, plus the ability to plug in any rendering engine you want -- JSP custom tags are only one such possible implementation. In fact, it should be quite feasible to write Flash renderers for JSF components. The components themselves don't care. Craig -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 09:18 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:28:39 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok in principle then it seems fine it's just I don't like the fact that a scripting language whether client or server side can be embedded in the presentation logic, it still seems like a bit of a workaround. Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? I've wondered about whether the Model2X approach and the Model 2 approach for some while now and it seems like the latter doesn't seperate the concerns as much as Model 2X. The only thing that makes me doubt this is the fact that Sun and yourself have gone this way via the Model 2 approach with Java Server Faces rather than the Model 2 approach. Is there any particular reason why this method is preferred over the Model 2X approach? You'll have to point me at a definition of what you mean by Model 2X -- I've seen the term bandied about, but don't know of any formal description. Regarding JavaServer Faces in particular, it is *not* a goal of JSF to be focused purely on HTML as the markup language. There will be a set of common components included, but no requirement that HTML be the only way they are rendered. I fully expect to see JSF implementations using all sorts of other technologies as well. Jon. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
The JSF Spec is a MUST READ for serious web application developers. There is a lot of stuff going on and it will seriously effect the way you develop and think about web applications. http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=127 Edgar -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 10:03 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? Flash! ;-) btw: I havent had time to look at JSF yet. Glad to hear its not just for rendering HTML, but is it applicable to JSP based rendering approaches only, or more generic than that? -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 09:18 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:28:39 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok in principle then it seems fine it's just I don't like the fact that a scripting language whether client or server side can be embedded in the presentation logic, it still seems like a bit of a workaround. Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? I've wondered about whether the Model2X approach and the Model 2 approach for some while now and it seems like the latter doesn't seperate the concerns as much as Model 2X. The only thing that makes me doubt this is the fact that Sun and yourself have gone this way via the Model 2 approach with Java Server Faces rather than the Model 2 approach. Is there any particular reason why this method is preferred over the Model 2X approach? You'll have to point me at a definition of what you mean by Model 2X -- I've seen the term bandied about, but don't know of any formal description. Regarding JavaServer Faces in particular, it is *not* a goal of JSF to be focused purely on HTML as the markup language. There will be a set of common components included, but no requirement that HTML be the only way they are rendered. I fully expect to see JSF implementations using all sorts of other technologies as well. Jon. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
By considering complcated GUI, we are planning to move to Swing Applications, which are deployed using WEB START. Our idea is to use a controller to Navigate between Swing Application and Server side Business Logic. So the core business Logic still run in server and GUI components run Locally.Not decided yet how to Transfer Data back and forth between Application and Server.Pls share your experience.. Any serious problem(s) with this approach? -Original Message- From: edgar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:22 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? The JSF Spec is a MUST READ for serious web application developers. There is a lot of stuff going on and it will seriously effect the way you develop and think about web applications. http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=127 Edgar -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 10:03 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? Flash! ;-) btw: I havent had time to look at JSF yet. Glad to hear its not just for rendering HTML, but is it applicable to JSP based rendering approaches only, or more generic than that? -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 09:18 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:28:39 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok in principle then it seems fine it's just I don't like the fact that a scripting language whether client or server side can be embedded in the presentation logic, it still seems like a bit of a workaround. Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? I've wondered about whether the Model2X approach and the Model 2 approach for some while now and it seems like the latter doesn't seperate the concerns as much as Model 2X. The only thing that makes me doubt this is the fact that Sun and yourself have gone this way via the Model 2 approach with Java Server Faces rather than the Model 2 approach. Is there any particular reason why this method is preferred over the Model 2X approach? You'll have to point me at a definition of what you mean by Model 2X -- I've seen the term bandied about, but don't know of any formal description. Regarding JavaServer Faces in particular, it is *not* a goal of JSF to be focused purely on HTML as the markup language. There will be a set of common components included, but no requirement that HTML be the only way they are rendered. I fully expect to see JSF implementations using all sorts of other technologies as well. Jon. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message. Thank you. - This mail is sent via Sony Asia Pacific Mail Gateway. --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
Yup I read it... I also read an article on it at http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-11-2002/jw-1129-jsf.html But, my question is, how long before it will be ready for use? PS: It looks cool! Regards, Daniel -Original Message- From: edgar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:22 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? The JSF Spec is a MUST READ for serious web application developers. There is a lot of stuff going on and it will seriously effect the way you develop and think about web applications. http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=127 Edgar -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 10:03 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? Flash! ;-) btw: I havent had time to look at JSF yet. Glad to hear its not just for rendering HTML, but is it applicable to JSP based rendering approaches only, or more generic than that? -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 09:18 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:28:39 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok in principle then it seems fine it's just I don't like the fact that a scripting language whether client or server side can be embedded in the presentation logic, it still seems like a bit of a workaround. Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? I've wondered about whether the Model2X approach and the Model 2 approach for some while now and it seems like the latter doesn't seperate the concerns as much as Model 2X. The only thing that makes me doubt this is the fact that Sun and yourself have gone this way via the Model 2 approach with Java Server Faces rather than the Model 2 approach. Is there any particular reason why this method is preferred over the Model 2X approach? You'll have to point me at a definition of what you mean by Model 2X -- I've seen the term bandied about, but don't know of any formal description. Regarding JavaServer Faces in particular, it is *not* a goal of JSF to be focused purely on HTML as the markup language. There will be a set of common components included, but no requirement that HTML be the only way they are rendered. I fully expect to see JSF implementations using all sorts of other technologies as well. Jon. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
Ah. It would seem there is. :-) JSF sounds rather good. I like! snip JavaServer Faces technology simplifies building user interfaces for JavaServer applications. With the well-defined programming model that JavaServer Faces provides, developers of varying skill levels can quickly and easily build web applications by: assembling reusable UI components in a page, connecting these components to an application data source, and wiring client-generated events to server-side event handlers. With the power of JavaServer Faces technology, these web applications handle all of the complexity of managing the user interface on the server, allowing the application developer to focus on application code. /snip -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:17 To: Craig R. McClanahan Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? So the components are basically a standardised way of keeping track of widget state on the server side between requests? Is their also an event model then? -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:05 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Andrew Hill wrote: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:02:34 +0800 From: Andrew Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? Flash! ;-) But isn't that still essentially client side scripting embedded in the presentation logic? :-) btw: I havent had time to look at JSF yet. Glad to hear its not just for rendering HTML, but is it applicable to JSP based rendering approaches only, or more generic than that? JSF is not applicable only to JSP. There is a Java API that talks to the component layer, plus the ability to plug in any rendering engine you want -- JSP custom tags are only one such possible implementation. In fact, it should be quite feasible to write Flash renderers for JSF components. The components themselves don't care. Craig -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 09:18 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:28:39 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok in principle then it seems fine it's just I don't like the fact that a scripting language whether client or server side can be embedded in the presentation logic, it still seems like a bit of a workaround. Have you got an alternative suggestion for how to build complicated UIs for a web browser *without* using client side JavaScript? I've wondered about whether the Model2X approach and the Model 2 approach for some while now and it seems like the latter doesn't seperate the concerns as much as Model 2X. The only thing that makes me doubt this is the fact that Sun and yourself have gone this way via the Model 2 approach with Java Server Faces rather than the Model 2 approach. Is there any particular reason why this method is preferred over the Model 2X approach? You'll have to point me at a definition of what you mean by Model 2X -- I've seen the term bandied about, but don't know of any formal description. Regarding JavaServer Faces in particular, it is *not* a goal of JSF to be focused purely on HTML as the markup language. There will be a set of common components included, but no requirement that HTML be the only way they are rendered. I fully expect to see JSF implementations using all sorts of other technologies as well. Jon. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
Ok fair enough but surely the issue of embedding all this javascript In my html is reversing the whole embedding presentation logic within business logic? Surely embedding javascript in a JSP is just as bad as embedding scriptlets in a JSP? Or am I missing the point here somewhere :) ? Jonathan Holloway. -Original Message- From: Affan Qureshi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 28 November 2002 03:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Complicated Web Interfaces? My comment between lines. Say I want to display two lists of objects and swap lists in and out of these two lists as required. List A -- List B Object A Object C Object B e.g. Move object B to List B I also want to add/remove objects as required to these lists. Is this possible in Struts. I've looked at the struts-layout library on http://struts-application-servers.com/ but it look sto be buggy. Has anbody actually had any success with this? This is shown in Tiles portal example. Works pretty well for simple purposes. Look at the place where you can add, delete, change tiles in the portal setup. You dont have to use tables like struts-layout. You can use some HTML select lists and some simple JS to manipulate them. I also want to be able to display a tree component to a user and allow the user to manipulate the tree by adding or removing nodes to the tree. Is this possible with any of the struts user interface components or will I have to use an applet or a sophiticated javascript tree to achieve this. If so how do I integrate it with Struts? Struts is just another Web application and runs servlets and JSPs. You need to come up with your own way to intergrate your stuff (JavaScript, Applets) with it. Struts does not provide you with an IDE. It provides you with a framwork to make your work easy. I've also looked at the monkey-struts example as well but that seems to lack the creation of objects in these lists, which doesn't look to be a problem to implement but that might be an oversight on my part : ) please let me know if I'm wrong. KB-Monkey-example uses a fixed object model (i.e it knows what fields are there in each object). However I think if you want the tree to be dynamic you can use the same technique with your own object model (which seems to be dynamic in content). The key to adding and deleting the nodes is the way the button clicks of Add and Delete are handled in a nested environment. Nested tags enable you to remember the context of added and deleted objects/nodes. You can use Map-backed properties for dynamic form-fields. But one issue with the monkey example is that it refreshes the page if I want to add/delete an object/node. Wouldn't it be more efficient to use JavaScript for the purpose? I mean why resend the request back to the server if you only want to add blank fields? If anybody has accomplished this I would be glad to know. I know there's a lot of questions abou the above and I'm still pondering them as well myself but I just wanted to know whether it is possible to do this in Struts at present. From what I can see it is possible to create simple web based applications using Struts but I haven't come across any really complicated web interfaces yet using Struts, has anybody got any ideas on this or any examples of web applications that are a little more compicated. Many thanks, Jon Holloway. If you find any such resource please let us know. Regards, Affan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Complicated Web Interfaces?
Well. Depends on what logic you want to implement using your JavaScript. If it pertains to display logic I think there is no harm in using JS. But if it also specifies rules (like which node can go uder which tree and so on) then I guess you have a point and need to re-assess the maintainability of the app in case og Business Rule changes. Affan - Original Message - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 2:11 PM Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok fair enough but surely the issue of embedding all this javascript In my html is reversing the whole embedding presentation logic within business logic? Surely embedding javascript in a JSP is just as bad as embedding scriptlets in a JSP? Or am I missing the point here somewhere :) ? Jonathan Holloway. -Original Message- From: Affan Qureshi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 28 November 2002 03:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Complicated Web Interfaces? My comment between lines. Say I want to display two lists of objects and swap lists in and out of these two lists as required. List A -- List B Object A Object C Object B e.g. Move object B to List B I also want to add/remove objects as required to these lists. Is this possible in Struts. I've looked at the struts-layout library on http://struts-application-servers.com/ but it look sto be buggy. Has anbody actually had any success with this? This is shown in Tiles portal example. Works pretty well for simple purposes. Look at the place where you can add, delete, change tiles in the portal setup. You dont have to use tables like struts-layout. You can use some HTML select lists and some simple JS to manipulate them. I also want to be able to display a tree component to a user and allow the user to manipulate the tree by adding or removing nodes to the tree. Is this possible with any of the struts user interface components or will I have to use an applet or a sophiticated javascript tree to achieve this. If so how do I integrate it with Struts? Struts is just another Web application and runs servlets and JSPs. You need to come up with your own way to intergrate your stuff (JavaScript, Applets) with it. Struts does not provide you with an IDE. It provides you with a framwork to make your work easy. I've also looked at the monkey-struts example as well but that seems to lack the creation of objects in these lists, which doesn't look to be a problem to implement but that might be an oversight on my part : ) please let me know if I'm wrong. KB-Monkey-example uses a fixed object model (i.e it knows what fields are there in each object). However I think if you want the tree to be dynamic you can use the same technique with your own object model (which seems to be dynamic in content). The key to adding and deleting the nodes is the way the button clicks of Add and Delete are handled in a nested environment. Nested tags enable you to remember the context of added and deleted objects/nodes. You can use Map-backed properties for dynamic form-fields. But one issue with the monkey example is that it refreshes the page if I want to add/delete an object/node. Wouldn't it be more efficient to use JavaScript for the purpose? I mean why resend the request back to the server if you only want to add blank fields? If anybody has accomplished this I would be glad to know. I know there's a lot of questions abou the above and I'm still pondering them as well myself but I just wanted to know whether it is possible to do this in Struts at present. From what I can see it is possible to create simple web based applications using Struts but I haven't come across any really complicated web interfaces yet using Struts, has anybody got any ideas on this or any examples of web applications that are a little more compicated. Many thanks, Jon Holloway. If you find any such resource please let us know. Regards, Affan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Complicated Web Interfaces?
I've also looked at the monkey-struts example as well but that seems to lack the creation of objects in these lists, which doesn't look to be a problem to implement but that might be an oversight on my part : ) please let me know if I'm wrong. Have another play, click on new banana... :) http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/StrutMonkey/MonkeyStruts_v2.jsp KB-Monkey-example uses a fixed object model (i.e it knows what fields are there in each object). However I think if you want the tree to be dynamic you can use the same technique with your own object model (which seems to be dynamic in content). The key to adding and deleting the nodes is the way the button clicks of Add and Delete are handled in a nested environment. Nested tags enable you to remember the context of added and deleted objects/nodes. You can use Map-backed properties for dynamic form-fields. But one issue with the monkey example is that it refreshes the page if I want to add/delete an object/node. Wouldn't it be more efficient to use JavaScript for the purpose? I mean why resend the request back to the server if you only want to add blank fields? If anybody has accomplished this I would be glad to know. It's all up to watever you want to code. The fact that the monkey example trips to the server has nothing to do with the nested tags. To write the monkey example in Struts without the nested tags is verging on impossible, at the very least a truly large headache, it was really quite easy. If the nested tags are guilty of anything, they make it very easy (and even fun?... maybe I'm wired differently) to add more and more complexity to the structure. The nested tags have made some truly unwieldy applications, including the reason for their creation. You just have to ask yourself one question... Red or Blue pill? :P Arron. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
I guess it's also easy to swap objects between the two models as well, this would be a nice addition to the example to allow bananas to be swapped between bunches. I did notice the new banana before but I wanted it to take values from fields on the form but I guess this is very simple to do now. It solves my problem in theory at least : ) all I have to work out now is how to maintain a tree in Struts :( I don't think the applet way is a very nice way of doing it. Jon. -Original Message- From: Arron Bates [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 28 November 2002 13:06 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Complicated Web Interfaces? I've also looked at the monkey-struts example as well but that seems to lack the creation of objects in these lists, which doesn't look to be a problem to implement but that might be an oversight on my part : ) please let me know if I'm wrong. Have another play, click on new banana... :) http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/StrutMonkey/MonkeyStruts_v2.jsp KB-Monkey-example uses a fixed object model (i.e it knows what fields are there in each object). However I think if you want the tree to be dynamic you can use the same technique with your own object model (which seems to be dynamic in content). The key to adding and deleting the nodes is the way the button clicks of Add and Delete are handled in a nested environment. Nested tags enable you to remember the context of added and deleted objects/nodes. You can use Map-backed properties for dynamic form-fields. But one issue with the monkey example is that it refreshes the page if I want to add/delete an object/node. Wouldn't it be more efficient to use JavaScript for the purpose? I mean why resend the request back to the server if you only want to add blank fields? If anybody has accomplished this I would be glad to know. It's all up to watever you want to code. The fact that the monkey example trips to the server has nothing to do with the nested tags. To write the monkey example in Struts without the nested tags is verging on impossible, at the very least a truly large headache, it was really quite easy. If the nested tags are guilty of anything, they make it very easy (and even fun?... maybe I'm wired differently) to add more and more complexity to the structure. The nested tags have made some truly unwieldy applications, including the reason for their creation. You just have to ask yourself one question... Red or Blue pill? :P Arron. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
It solves my problem in theory at least : ) all I have to work out now is how to maintain a tree in Struts :( I don't think the applet way is a very nice way of doing it. Mate, here at the keyboard of monkeys, we aim to please... http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/pilotlight ... and scroll to the part where it says... JSP Recursion TREES!!! ...it's about the most flexible tree generation method there is, and I'm actually being modest. :P Requires a JSP 1.2 container (Tomcat3). Enjoy. Arron. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
Nested tags made struts work for me. Thanks Edgar -Original Message- From: Arron Bates [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 8:32 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? It solves my problem in theory at least : ) all I have to work out now is how to maintain a tree in Struts :( I don't think the applet way is a very nice way of doing it. Mate, here at the keyboard of monkeys, we aim to please... http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/pilotlight ... and scroll to the part where it says... JSP Recursion TREES!!! ...it's about the most flexible tree generation method there is, and I'm actually being modest. :P Requires a JSP 1.2 container (Tomcat3). Enjoy. Arron. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
(Waiting for the turkey to be ready ... :-) On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:11:51 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok fair enough but surely the issue of embedding all this javascript In my html is reversing the whole embedding presentation logic within business logic? Surely embedding javascript in a JSP is just as bad as embedding scriptlets in a JSP? Or am I missing the point here somewhere :) ? The big difference is that scriptlets execute on the server, as the page is being generated -- and have access to the entire object model of your application (leading to the temptation to embed business logic there). JavaScript doesn't execute on the server, it executes on the client, and doesn't have direct access to your business objects. Embedding JavaScript to enhance the user experience (i.e. improve the quality of the presentation) is fine. An example of this is the client side validation JavaScript that can be created by the Validator Framework -- this improves life for the user by catching errors earlier. Using JavaScript to send background HTTP requests that grab stuff directly from the database (bypassing the normal control flow) and changing the contents of select lists is a little more iffy -- but some intranet based apps (where the 100mbps network makes it pretty fast) will undoubtedly use such techniques to more accurately simulate what a GUI app can do. You can still flow such requests through the controller servlet, though -- to special actions that just return data instead of HTML -- and that seems fairly reasonable. Jonathan Holloway. Craig -Original Message- From: Affan Qureshi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 28 November 2002 03:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Complicated Web Interfaces? My comment between lines. Say I want to display two lists of objects and swap lists in and out of these two lists as required. List A -- List B Object A Object C Object B e.g. Move object B to List B I also want to add/remove objects as required to these lists. Is this possible in Struts. I've looked at the struts-layout library on http://struts-application-servers.com/ but it look sto be buggy. Has anbody actually had any success with this? This is shown in Tiles portal example. Works pretty well for simple purposes. Look at the place where you can add, delete, change tiles in the portal setup. You dont have to use tables like struts-layout. You can use some HTML select lists and some simple JS to manipulate them. I also want to be able to display a tree component to a user and allow the user to manipulate the tree by adding or removing nodes to the tree. Is this possible with any of the struts user interface components or will I have to use an applet or a sophiticated javascript tree to achieve this. If so how do I integrate it with Struts? Struts is just another Web application and runs servlets and JSPs. You need to come up with your own way to intergrate your stuff (JavaScript, Applets) with it. Struts does not provide you with an IDE. It provides you with a framwork to make your work easy. I've also looked at the monkey-struts example as well but that seems to lack the creation of objects in these lists, which doesn't look to be a problem to implement but that might be an oversight on my part : ) please let me know if I'm wrong. KB-Monkey-example uses a fixed object model (i.e it knows what fields are there in each object). However I think if you want the tree to be dynamic you can use the same technique with your own object model (which seems to be dynamic in content). The key to adding and deleting the nodes is the way the button clicks of Add and Delete are handled in a nested environment. Nested tags enable you to remember the context of added and deleted objects/nodes. You can use Map-backed properties for dynamic form-fields. But one issue with the monkey example is that it refreshes the page if I want to add/delete an object/node. Wouldn't it be more efficient to use JavaScript for the purpose? I mean why resend the request back to the server if you only want to add blank fields? If anybody has accomplished this I would be glad to know. I know there's a lot of questions abou the above and I'm still pondering them as well myself but I just wanted to know whether it is possible to do this in Struts at present. From what I can see it is possible to create simple web based applications using Struts but I haven't come across any really complicated web interfaces yet using Struts, has anybody got any ideas on this or any examples of web applications that are a little more compicated. Many thanks
RE: Complicated Web Interfaces?
Ok in principle then it seems fine it's just I don't like the fact that a scripting language whether client or server side can be embedded in the presentation logic, it still seems like a bit of a workaround. I've wondered about whether the Model2X approach and the Model 2 approach for some while now and it seems like the latter doesn't seperate the concerns as much as Model 2X. The only thing that makes me doubt this is the fact that Sun and yourself have gone this way via the Model 2 approach with Java Server Faces rather than the Model 2 approach. Is there any particular reason why this method is preferred over the Model 2X approach? Jon. -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 28 November 2002 19:22 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? (Waiting for the turkey to be ready ... :-) On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Jonathan Holloway wrote: Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:11:51 - From: Jonathan Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Complicated Web Interfaces? Ok fair enough but surely the issue of embedding all this javascript In my html is reversing the whole embedding presentation logic within business logic? Surely embedding javascript in a JSP is just as bad as embedding scriptlets in a JSP? Or am I missing the point here somewhere :) ? The big difference is that scriptlets execute on the server, as the page is being generated -- and have access to the entire object model of your application (leading to the temptation to embed business logic there). JavaScript doesn't execute on the server, it executes on the client, and doesn't have direct access to your business objects. Embedding JavaScript to enhance the user experience (i.e. improve the quality of the presentation) is fine. An example of this is the client side validation JavaScript that can be created by the Validator Framework -- this improves life for the user by catching errors earlier. Using JavaScript to send background HTTP requests that grab stuff directly from the database (bypassing the normal control flow) and changing the contents of select lists is a little more iffy -- but some intranet based apps (where the 100mbps network makes it pretty fast) will undoubtedly use such techniques to more accurately simulate what a GUI app can do. You can still flow such requests through the controller servlet, though -- to special actions that just return data instead of HTML -- and that seems fairly reasonable. Jonathan Holloway. Craig -Original Message- From: Affan Qureshi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 28 November 2002 03:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Complicated Web Interfaces? My comment between lines. Say I want to display two lists of objects and swap lists in and out of these two lists as required. List A -- List B Object A Object C Object B e.g. Move object B to List B I also want to add/remove objects as required to these lists. Is this possible in Struts. I've looked at the struts-layout library on http://struts-application-servers.com/ but it look sto be buggy. Has anbody actually had any success with this? This is shown in Tiles portal example. Works pretty well for simple purposes. Look at the place where you can add, delete, change tiles in the portal setup. You dont have to use tables like struts-layout. You can use some HTML select lists and some simple JS to manipulate them. I also want to be able to display a tree component to a user and allow the user to manipulate the tree by adding or removing nodes to the tree. Is this possible with any of the struts user interface components or will I have to use an applet or a sophiticated javascript tree to achieve this. If so how do I integrate it with Struts? Struts is just another Web application and runs servlets and JSPs. You need to come up with your own way to intergrate your stuff (JavaScript, Applets) with it. Struts does not provide you with an IDE. It provides you with a framwork to make your work easy. I've also looked at the monkey-struts example as well but that seems to lack the creation of objects in these lists, which doesn't look to be a problem to implement but that might be an oversight on my part : ) please let me know if I'm wrong. KB-Monkey-example uses a fixed object model (i.e it knows what fields are there in each object). However I think if you want the tree to be dynamic you can use the same technique with your own object model (which seems to be dynamic in content). The key to adding and deleting the nodes is the way the button clicks of Add and Delete are handled in a nested environment. Nested tags enable you to remember the context of added and deleted objects/nodes. You can use Map-backed properties
Re: Complicated Web Interfaces?
My comment between lines. Say I want to display two lists of objects and swap lists in and out of these two lists as required. List A -- List B Object A Object C Object B e.g. Move object B to List B I also want to add/remove objects as required to these lists. Is this possible in Struts. I've looked at the struts-layout library on http://struts-application-servers.com/ but it look sto be buggy. Has anbody actually had any success with this? This is shown in Tiles portal example. Works pretty well for simple purposes. Look at the place where you can add, delete, change tiles in the portal setup. You dont have to use tables like struts-layout. You can use some HTML select lists and some simple JS to manipulate them. I also want to be able to display a tree component to a user and allow the user to manipulate the tree by adding or removing nodes to the tree. Is this possible with any of the struts user interface components or will I have to use an applet or a sophiticated javascript tree to achieve this. If so how do I integrate it with Struts? Struts is just another Web application and runs servlets and JSPs. You need to come up with your own way to intergrate your stuff (JavaScript, Applets) with it. Struts does not provide you with an IDE. It provides you with a framwork to make your work easy. I've also looked at the monkey-struts example as well but that seems to lack the creation of objects in these lists, which doesn't look to be a problem to implement but that might be an oversight on my part : ) please let me know if I'm wrong. KB-Monkey-example uses a fixed object model (i.e it knows what fields are there in each object). However I think if you want the tree to be dynamic you can use the same technique with your own object model (which seems to be dynamic in content). The key to adding and deleting the nodes is the way the button clicks of Add and Delete are handled in a nested environment. Nested tags enable you to remember the context of added and deleted objects/nodes. You can use Map-backed properties for dynamic form-fields. But one issue with the monkey example is that it refreshes the page if I want to add/delete an object/node. Wouldn't it be more efficient to use JavaScript for the purpose? I mean why resend the request back to the server if you only want to add blank fields? If anybody has accomplished this I would be glad to know. I know there's a lot of questions abou the above and I'm still pondering them as well myself but I just wanted to know whether it is possible to do this in Struts at present. From what I can see it is possible to create simple web based applications using Struts but I haven't come across any really complicated web interfaces yet using Struts, has anybody got any ideas on this or any examples of web applications that are a little more compicated. Many thanks, Jon Holloway. If you find any such resource please let us know. Regards, Affan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
