RE: Who's using Struts and license issue
Here are some users that I've seen mentioned on the mailing list: Fannie Mae, Shell, Deutsche Bank, IBM, Sun, HP, Hallmark, Pizza Hut, Daimler Chrysler, Capital One. -Dan -Original Message- From: Scott Carlson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 1:48 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Who's using Struts and license issue I'm trying to get a Fortune 125 company to convert from their existing internal web framework. During my analysis two questions have come up. First, Who's using Struts? Is there a list of big companies that are using Struts in a production external application mode? Does anyone have metrics on that? Second, The license. Clause 3 says that you must give credit to Apache/Struts. It looks like a Powered by Struts is sufficient. Does this apply as well for intranet applications? For Internet applications, does this need to be on each page of the application, or just the first page of each app? Does it have to be visible to the user, or can it just be in the comments of the code? Personally, I've got no problems with Struts or plastering powered by Struts on every page. The more I use it, the better I like it. However, this is an old Brick and Mortar company. They are stuck in their old ways, and they aren't liking some of my answers so far. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Who's using Struts and license issue
Dan Cancro wrote: Here are some users that I've seen mentioned on the mailing list: Fannie Mae, Shell, Deutsche Bank, IBM, Sun, HP, Hallmark, Pizza Hut, Daimler Chrysler, Capital One. -Dan What about the licensing issues? I'd be quite interested to hear comments on those. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Who's using Struts and license issue
Personally, I've got no problems with Struts or plastering powered by Struts on every page. I would, if I were in charge of brand management/marketing. Does the Struts license allow putting that sentence in a meta tag (bad) or as an HTML comment (good), so that it's invisible to the regular user? -TPP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Who's using Struts and license issue
The License issue you're describing only applies if you are redistributing the software - that is if you distribute the software to some other entity and THEY install it. If this is the case, any docs (or the code you give them) must include an acknowledgement. * * 3. The end-user documentation included with the redistribution, if *any, must include the following acknowlegement: * This product includes software developed by the *Apache Software Foundation (http://www.apache.org/). *Alternately, this acknowlegement may appear in the software itself, *if and wherever such third-party acknowlegements normally appear. * Note the phrase included with the redistribution. Of the 5 clauses in the license , the first three have to do with redistributing the code and the last two have to do with products you deliver that include the code. If you're using the software on your site, then no acknowledgements are required - though it would be nice... This is the standard apache license. It's the same as the one used for the web server - and the 50%+ sites on the Internet that use the Apache web server don't all have acknowledgements... Scott Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/18/2002 04:47:38 PM Please respond to Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Kevin Bedell/Systems/USHO/SunLife) Subject: Who's using Struts and license issue I'm trying to get a Fortune 125 company to convert from their existing internal web framework. During my analysis two questions have come up. First, Who's using Struts? Is there a list of big companies that are using Struts in a production external application mode? Does anyone have metrics on that? Second, The license. Clause 3 says that you must give credit to Apache/Struts. It looks like a Powered by Struts is sufficient. Does this apply as well for intranet applications? For Internet applications, does this need to be on each page of the application, or just the first page of each app? Does it have to be visible to the user, or can it just be in the comments of the code? Personally, I've got no problems with Struts or plastering powered by Struts on every page. The more I use it, the better I like it. However, this is an old Brick and Mortar company. They are stuck in their old ways, and they aren't liking some of my answers so far. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Who's using Struts and license issue
From the apache license: * 3. The end-user documentation included with the redistribution, if *any, must include the following acknowlegement: * This product includes software developed by the *Apache Software Foundation (http://www.apache.org/). *Alternately, this acknowlegement may appear in the software itself, *if and wherever such third-party acknowlegements normally appear. For most web sites, there is no redistribution or source or binaries, and no end-user documentation, so for an internet site, it doesn't seem to me to be an issue. Brad Tero P PaananenTo: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: (bcc: Brad Horstkotte/AFS/CAPITAL) Subject: RE: Who's using Struts and license issue 06/18/2002 02:02 PM Please respond to Struts Users Mailing List Personally, I've got no problems with Struts or plastering powered by Struts on every page. I would, if I were in charge of brand management/marketing. Does the Struts license allow putting that sentence in a meta tag (bad) or as an HTML comment (good), so that it's invisible to the regular user? -TPP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Who's using Struts and license issue
You just need to include the Apache License http://apache.org/LICENSE along with any of your own copyrights, disclaimers, or licensing notices. Or, if you don't do any of that, in a file next to to the JARs. What's going on, is that when you credit yourself, Apache wants to be credited too. Just saying that it is Powered by Struts really would not be sufficient, though that is always a welcome touch. Since Struts is open source, and people don't need to register to use it, any advice about who is using it is going to be anecdotal. Besides the many others you will see posted on the list, in the Rochester area I happen to know its being used by firms like Xerox, Kodak, and Paychex. AFAIK, these are all intranet applications, like the one you anticipate I very much doubt that there is another framework with better market penetration that Struts. (Or that will have more books about it ship sometime this year =:0) Something to mention to the suits is that our esteemed leader, Craig McClanahan, was not only the primary architect of Tomcat 4 and the implementation architect of the Java Web Services Developer Pack, but he is now Sun's specification lead for JavaServer Faces (JSR-127) as well as the Web Layer Architect for the J2EE platform. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty comfortable with having Craig on my development team =;O) -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY US -- Java Web Development with Struts -- Tel: +1 585 737-3463 -- Web: http://husted.com/about/services Scott Carlson wrote: I'm trying to get a Fortune 125 company to convert from their existing internal web framework. During my analysis two questions have come up. First, Who's using Struts? Is there a list of big companies that are using Struts in a production external application mode? Does anyone have metrics on that? Second, The license. Clause 3 says that you must give credit to Apache/Struts. It looks like a Powered by Struts is sufficient. Does this apply as well for intranet applications? For Internet applications, does this need to be on each page of the application, or just the first page of each app? Does it have to be visible to the user, or can it just be in the comments of the code? Personally, I've got no problems with Struts or plastering powered by Struts on every page. The more I use it, the better I like it. However, this is an old Brick and Mortar company. They are stuck in their old ways, and they aren't liking some of my answers so far. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Who's using Struts and license issue
To add to Ted's thoughts - Struts is now going to be distributed directly with Tomcat (the servlet/jsp reference implementation) as part of it management application. This essentially guarantees it to be the most widely distributed web application framework. If you get a copy of Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey Moore ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0066620023/qid=1024436358/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-9680446-6979158 ) and read it - it outlines the classic adoption patterns for new technologies and new technology products. One of the critical stages he identifies in the adoption of new technology is the point at which a market leader is chosen by consumers. Struts (and Java Frameworks as well) is absolutely following the path he lays out and it is emerging as the market leader. In the next year or so we'll see a number of fringe framework projects either falling off or merging with each other and Struts will be the dominant framework - if not the dominant approach to web application development within J2EE. my 2 cents Kevin Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/18/2002 05:22:20 PM Please respond to Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Kevin Bedell/Systems/USHO/SunLife) Subject: Re: Who's using Struts and license issue You just need to include the Apache License http://apache.org/LICENSE along with any of your own copyrights, disclaimers, or licensing notices. Or, if you don't do any of that, in a file next to to the JARs. What's going on, is that when you credit yourself, Apache wants to be credited too. Just saying that it is Powered by Struts really would not be sufficient, though that is always a welcome touch. Since Struts is open source, and people don't need to register to use it, any advice about who is using it is going to be anecdotal. Besides the many others you will see posted on the list, in the Rochester area I happen to know its being used by firms like Xerox, Kodak, and Paychex. AFAIK, these are all intranet applications, like the one you anticipate I very much doubt that there is another framework with better market penetration that Struts. (Or that will have more books about it ship sometime this year =:0) Something to mention to the suits is that our esteemed leader, Craig McClanahan, was not only the primary architect of Tomcat 4 and the implementation architect of the Java Web Services Developer Pack, but he is now Sun's specification lead for JavaServer Faces (JSR-127) as well as the Web Layer Architect for the J2EE platform. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty comfortable with having Craig on my development team =;O) -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY US -- Java Web Development with Struts -- Tel: +1 585 737-3463 -- Web: http://husted.com/about/services Scott Carlson wrote: I'm trying to get a Fortune 125 company to convert from their existing internal web framework. During my analysis two questions have come up. First, Who's using Struts? Is there a list of big companies that are using Struts in a production external application mode? Does anyone have metrics on that? Second, The license. Clause 3 says that you must give credit to Apache/Struts. It looks like a Powered by Struts is sufficient. Does this apply as well for intranet applications? For Internet applications, does this need to be on each page of the application, or just the first page of each app? Does it have to be visible to the user, or can it just be in the comments of the code? Personally, I've got no problems with Struts or plastering powered by Struts on every page. The more I use it, the better I like it. However, this is an old Brick and Mortar company. They are stuck in their old ways, and they aren't liking some of my answers so far. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
