Re: [Sugar-devel] Getting Journal entries off an XO at the end of a project?

[David Van Assche]

The issue i see here is backing up work so its accesible to all oses not
just linux. Its definetly a fair point as most current edu projects are iOS
based,sadly... but such is the state of the world. Guess well have to wait
for android to make the visible change.
On Jan 17, 2012 12:39 PM, "Sascha Silbe"  wrote:

> Excerpts from Christoph Derndorfer's message of 2012-01-13 19:56:51 +0100:
>
> > (a) Have the pupils copy relevant files they want to keep to USB drives
> via
> > the Journal or the Sugar commander Activity
>
> > (b) Ask them to favorite things they want to keep in the Journal and then
> > run a script that copies all of these entries to a USB drive or possibly
> > even a network share
>
> Given that you're still running Sugar 0.82, one of these is probably the
> best option (in addition to doing a full backup, as explained in my
> previous mail).
>
> Whether the data file is usable outside of Sugar (i.e. in a standard
> format) depends on each activity.
>
> Writing a script that dumps all data files of starred entries is pretty
> straightforward if you borrow some functions from jarabe.journal.model
> (=> GPLv2+). You _will_ loose the metadata (description, tags, etc.) in
> any case: Even when using the UI to write the files, the metadata isn't
> in a format recognised by any other system.
>
>
> The script would look something like this:
>
> === snip ===
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> # License: GPL version 3
> import os
> import shutil
>
> from sugar import mime
> from sugar.datastore import datastore
>
>
> [copy get_file_name() and get_unique_file_name() from
> src/jarabe/journal/model.py]
>
>
> mount_point = '/media/CHERRY_TREE'
> for entry in datastore.find({'keep': '1'})[0]:
>title = entry.metadata.get('title') or 'Untitled'
>mime_type = entry.metadata.get('mime_type')
>target_name = get_unique_file_name(mount_point,
>   get_file_name(title, mime_type))
>target_path = os.path.join(mount_point, target_name)
>shutil.copyfile(entry.file_path, target_path)
>entry.destroy()
>
> === snip ===
>
> Untested on Sugar 0.82. Backup/Restore access the data store directly
> via D-Bus rather than through sugar.datastore.datastore, so I don't know
> if the API changed in subtle ways; a quick check confirmed that all of
> the functions imported (not copied) above were available in Sugar
> 0.82.0.
>
> Sascha
>
> --
> http://sascha.silbe.org/
> http://www.infra-silbe.de/
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] badges for collaborative activities

[David Van Assche]

you're right, confused the 2.. groupthink was indeed promising I was
thinking about sugarize :-) I'll delve deeper into groupthink... IF I
understand enough of it before it makes my head explode...

kind regards,
David

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz <
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:

> On 12/13/2011 01:57 PM, David Van Assche wrote:
> > Played with that, wasnt quite what I was looking for. It basically skins
> > an app (lets say a gtk app) and makes it look like its a part of sugar...
> > but it doesn't really gie u access to how the collaborative functions
> work...
>
> Uhh, nope.  Maybe you're thinking of Sugarize?
>
> (as documented on
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Running_Linux_Applications_Under_Sugar)
>
> Groupthink is a python module for writing collaborative Activities.  It
> works by providing data structures that automatically share themselves
> over the Tubes, synchronize their state, and even serialize to disk.  No
> relation to Sugarize.
>
> --Ben
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] badges for collaborative activities

[David Van Assche]

Played with that, wasnt quite what I was looking for. It basically skins an
app (lets say a gtk app) and makes it look like its a part of sugar... but
it doesn't really gie u access to how the collaborative functions work...

but its a good step for quickly porting apps to sugar sure

kind regards,
David

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz <
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:

> On 12/13/2011 01:37 PM, David Van Assche wrote:
> > I've got a sort
> > of halted project which I really want to make collaborative, but am
> unsure
> > how to move forward and include... I guess I was asking for some pointers
> > towards really good documentation to make this a reality.
>
> You might like
>
> http://bemasc.net/~bens/groupthink/
>
> a library I wrote for Sugar-GSoC 2009 that (under some circumstances)
> makes it easier to write collaborative python activities.  It's currently
> used by Pippy, Stopwatch, and possibly a few other things.
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] badges for collaborative activities

[David Van Assche]

Yeah, I'm sorry if it came across that way, its just that I've got a sort
of halted project which I really want to make collaborative, but am unsure
how to move forward and include... I guess I was asking for some pointers
towards really good documentation to make this a reality.

kind regards,
David

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 7:35 PM, C. Scott Ananian  wrote:

> I'm trying not to open the can of worms which is "how should we best
> implement collaboration".  In this thread, let's just concentrate on
> "how do we discover collaborative activities when we're playing with
> our friends"?
>   --scott
>
> --
>  ( http://cscott.net/ )
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] badges for collaborative activities

[David Van Assche]

How much has been done in terms of centralising the collaborative aspects
of applications by using the latest and greatest innovations to telepathy,
which surely must by now have many many hooks to allow for the funkiest of
ways to quickly and easily integrate collaborative sessions.
I suppose the main problem is still finding the creative aspects of this,
ie... what is the best way for students to share/collaborate an activity,
and should that activity then even collaborate across activites with others.
I took quite a stab at this a year or so ago, but got boggled down in the
serious intricacies of telepathy and the way it fits with dbus and how to
make the communication of elements be they on the same computer or across a
network easy to understand with examples of implementation. The examples
back when I was looking (tic tac toe was one) were so complex for such a
simple application that it scared me away completely. I wanted to
collaboratively create a quiz based app which would allow a class to take
turns answering questions, and then the program could keep track of how
well students where doing based on subject/timing/spelling, or whatever
else the program was supposed to help students with.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 7:26 PM, C. Scott Ananian  wrote:

> I was playing with Sugar collaboration between my XO-1.75 and my
> crazy-nephew's XO-1.5 over the weekend.  We wanted to "play together",
> but it was hard to find which activities would let us do so.
>
> What if we added a small badge (perhaps the "ring of dots" used to
> switch an activity from 'private' to 'shared') to activities on the
> home screen to indicate that they support collaboration?  That would
> make it easy to tell which activities allow us to play together.
>  --scott
>
> ps. "Typing Turtle" is a great new activity which I hadn't seen before
> -- but it doesn't support collaboration.  What if we could play the
> balloon-popping game together, with the first person to type the word
> getting points for popping the balloon?
>
> --
>  ( http://cscott.net/ )
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] Proxy Control Panel (Was: New Dextrose-3...)

[David Van Assche]

Have you guys taken a look at total parent control... its an all in one gui
that controls dansguardian, firehol, and squid, and is maintained quite
heavily by many side projects apart from canonical:

https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol

Its worth a look

kind regards,
David van assche

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Frederick Grose  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Sameer Verma  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Bernie Innocenti 
>> wrote:
>> > On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 20:14 +, Aleksey Lim wrote:
>> {...}
>>
>> > If someone had the time to work on UI cleanups, I'd prefer to see both
>> > the Network and Modem control panels be replaced by options directly
>> > associated with the objects they manipulate:
>> >
>> >  - a radio-off checkbox in the popup menu of the wifi device
>> >
>>
>> While we are at it, I think a radio button is a better choice for
>> radio on/off instead of the check box. I have a hard time remembering
>> what happens when you check the box :-)
>>
>> Sameer
>>
>
> I find the wording around the box contributes to uncertainty about its
> action:
>
> Wireless
>
>  Turn off the wireless radio to save battery life
>
>  □  Radio
>
>  Discard network history if you have
>  trouble connecting to the network
>
>  (Discard network history)
>
> The 'Discard network history' button is always the affirmative action for
> the preceding advisory.  The 'Turn off' advisory for the Radio check box is
> only similarly aligned when the box is checked (otherwise, one might wonder
> does it 'Turn off' or 'Turn on' the radio).
>
>   --Fred
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Running sugar through PXE

[David Van Assche]

Hi there,
   I've always been a serious advocate of runing sugar through pxe for a
million reasons..

For a time I was employed for working on the maco managmenet side of
sugar... ie distributing it... pxe... seemed obvious, fast, and incredibly
tested. I am also one of the lead guys workiin on LTSP which turns any old
computer into a thin client runninig the latest distro (ubuntu, fedora, and
debian have done most work in that area) but its amazing stufff... u can
run a thin client as just that, thin, using maybe 30mb ram, or fat 1 gig
pllus... the server takes care of everything from whcih programs are being
run, what machines and who are being monitored and of course the user DB,
allowing a user to login froom anywher and get their desktop,, fat or thin,
or anything in between

It sounds a bit like profiling and its being used like that a bit, but
there is also sabayon, which is  a real visual profiler which is awsome,
especially during exam times... In any case I've digressed. I wrote an
article which is really aged now on  nubae.com. I'll do an update using
pinguyos as the base distro (as it just rocks almost as miuch as osx, if u
like that kind of thing.)
Anyway, the more recent articles with lots of engineering style writing is
here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Dextrose/Server

I was unfortunately unable to bring my monster to life, but fully intend
to, when I have a momenta


U'll find the sugar crowd oddly fearful of PXE and how much time it can
save, not to mention the tons of broken disks and sticks but its a
battle that will be won when proof of concept is shown at various points in
time and space..

kind ragards,
David Van Assche

P.S. If you are game, I would love a co-driver on this... working it alone
is boring, tiring, and somewhat unmotivated...

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Mathieu Jobin  wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I am new to sugar. I set it up so i can boot the image through PXE. The
> initial boot phase works. But it fails while trying to mount the root fs.
>
> On the live CD it is set as root=live:LABEL=iso-filename or something
> similar. But the CD is not in the drive. So that points no where.
>
> I tried set it up to root=/dev/null like the Slitaz distro is doing. A
> distro I am also booting through PXE.
>
> I tried setting up to mount a NFS share on the LAN. But root nfs doesn't
> seems supported.
>
> Before getting into rebuilding the Sugar image. I was wondering if there
> is something that could work out of the box?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Sent from my Phone.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Tux Paint - Save and new

[David Van Assche]

Can it be ported to python? just a quesstion, maybe a stupid one

David

On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Aleksey Lim
 wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 09:12:31PM +, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn wrote:
>>
>>
>> This was the comments from an Uruguayab teacher..
>> I tell you why it is important for teachers to have the option within the 
>> program.
>>        When the teacher proposes to use will likely be to put together a 
>> sequence of something, having to close the program and reopen it for every 
>> film set, is somewhat cumbersome, especially with children in the early 
>> stages (initial, 1 and 2).
>>        Other: is very useful image file of the seals, especially when there 
>> are difficult to get them on the internet connection to be used in creating 
>> games of memory, for example, and any other proposal in which images are 
>> needed, especially if we consider that many of these are photos.
>>        Another advantage: the sheets are created within the program and open 
>> the option can be viewed all at once, allowing you to quickly eliminate 
>> those that do not serve us.
>>        Surely other teachers on the list you can add some more ...
>> So, it's very good that can be saved in the journal and take pictures of him 
>> but would also be good to have the option to slide within the program.
>>       Last, I think what is more complicated obstacle of having to always 
>> open new business from home.
>> Viewed from the standpoint of you, developers, avoid useless files
>> Viewed from the perspective of teachers, we complicate our lives, we risk 
>> losing ongoing work in process if you do not remember to tell children
>> marked "start again" when it comes to class assignments.
>>       It would be very interesting that we could ever make the proper 
>> connection and teacher developers to implement changes that are really 
>> useful for classroom use.
>> I add another tip. My daughter draws very well and loves to draw. With 10 
>> years I will not sit or Inkscape use The Gimp, I feel that use Tuxpaint. 
>> Okay, it's for his age, and really nice stuff out. But ups! draw something 
>> new means losing the previous job. Is that fair? No. No one uses a single 
>> sheet to draw, using multiple, and nobody thinks you delete a picture but 
>> perfect for another. It makes no sense.
>> But I ask you a child has no right to be creative, draw a long and well? Why 
>> assume a priori that children draw more or less, to hang out and you're not 
>> cleared to "occupy" space?
>> That is the other utility Tuxpaint slides.
>> And please do not tell me that there is another program to do the same. 
>> Children are not graphic designers! They'll learn to use other programs.
>> Resuming: she think that the "slides" view is necessary, maintenance the 
>> integration with the jounal...
>> But make it is can be complicated, or not "optimized" function... A slow 
>> process:
>> for each entry in the journal...   if it's an image...      scale to show..  
>>     show in the tuxpaint
>>
>> "Tux Paint will behave like regular activity but preserving useful features 
>> like Load/New."
>> I think that is good idea..
>> Another activitys have and dialog.. You can re-use it.. Like the Read 
>> activity...
>
> hehe, not sure. TuxPaint is written in C.
>
> Though, it is more a problem w/ time, I CCed Rafael who started
> something, afaik. If there are other people who can help w/ adding
> New/Open startup dialog (at the end, it shouldn't be hard, the dialog is
> already importanted in Tuxpaint, the only thing that is needed is
> popping it up on startup).
>
> --
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH sugar] Anly approve and not handle channels in the shell, part of OLPC #10738

[David Van Assche]

awsome stuff on all the telepathy related stuff... I'm no expert, but looks
like things became more homologised and is now used more in line with the
way empathy and others run under gnome to use telepathy... Maybe I'm reading
too much into this, but does this effectively mean that we can now
communicate with any telepathy based client on other systems from a sugar
based system?

Perhaps you could explain how this effects activity sharing across
activities on other oses (say chat client on gnome with sugar chat?)

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote:

> We only approve channels in the shell and do not claim to handle them
> anymore. The handling is now done by the activity (toolkit patch).
> More info about approving and handling of channels can be found at [1].
>
> This patch does as well only handle sugar activity invitations, invitations
> from non-sugar clients will be handled in a separate patch.
>
> [1]
> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/doc/book/sect.channel-dispatcher.clients.html
>
> Signed-off-by: Simon Schampijer 
> ---
>  src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py |   21 -
>  1 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py
> b/src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py
> index c6fbac1..cea8693 100644
> --- a/src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py
> +++ b/src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py
> @@ -19,11 +19,16 @@ import logging
>  import dbus
>  from dbus import PROPERTIES_IFACE
>  from telepathy.interfaces import CLIENT, \
> + CHANNEL, \
> + CHANNEL_TYPE_TEXT, \
>  CLIENT_APPROVER, \
>  CLIENT_HANDLER, \
>  CLIENT_INTERFACE_REQUESTS
>  from telepathy.server import DBusProperties
>
> +from telepathy.constants import CONNECTION_HANDLE_TYPE_CONTACT
> +from telepathy.constants import CONNECTION_HANDLE_TYPE_ROOM
> +
>  from sugar import dispatch
>
>
> @@ -48,9 +53,6 @@ class TelepathyClient(dbus.service.Object,
> DBusProperties):
> self._implement_property_get(CLIENT, {
> 'Interfaces': lambda: list(self._interfaces),
>   })
> -self._implement_property_get(CLIENT_HANDLER, {
> -'HandlerChannelFilter': self.__get_filters_cb,
> -  })
> self._implement_property_get(CLIENT_APPROVER, {
> 'ApproverChannelFilter': self.__get_filters_cb,
>   })
> @@ -60,8 +62,17 @@ class TelepathyClient(dbus.service.Object,
> DBusProperties):
>
> def __get_filters_cb(self):
> logging.debug('__get_filters_cb')
> -filter_dict = dbus.Dictionary({}, signature='sv')
> -return dbus.Array([filter_dict], signature='a{sv}')
> +
> +filt = {
> +CHANNEL + '.ChannelType': CHANNEL_TYPE_TEXT,
> +CHANNEL + '.TargetHandleType': CONNECTION_HANDLE_TYPE_ROOM,
> +}
> +filter_dict = dbus.Dictionary(filt, signature='sv')
> +filters = dbus.Array([filter_dict], signature='a{sv}')
> +
> +logging.debug('__get_filters_cb %r', filters)
> +
> +return filters
>
> @dbus.service.method(dbus_interface=CLIENT_HANDLER,
>  in_signature='ooa(oa{sv})aota{sv}',
> out_signature='')
> --
> 1.7.4
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] [AC Update] We are what we do.

[David Van Assche]

The more info the better... information shouldn't kill people.
(read shouldn't)

David Van Assche

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Walter Bender  wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:05 AM, NoiseEHC  wrote:
>>
>>>> "About pane" has a psychological effect, it provides recognition and
>>>> maybe a sense of ownership for developers and mantainers. I will
>>>> propose it on sugar-devel and the HIG once I've implemented a design.
>>>> Also it gives a starting point for eventually getting involved in the
>>>> development and improvement of each activity.
>>>
>>> The idea of an About dialog (or menu) already came up on sugar-devel,
>>> not long ago. IIRC, Gary Martin was quite opposed to increasing UI
>>> clutter with non-essential information.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we could still define a few meta-tags for activity.info and
>>> _not_ display them in the UI at all? They would still be easy to find
>>> for developers.
>>
>> You can show this info in view source mode and in the journal.
>
> Or perhaps in the Detail View in the Journal, where we already show
> things like mime-type? And perhaps we could even add the ability to
> launch Browse from the Detail View to go to the activity's homepage?
>
> -walter
>
>>
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>
>
> --
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Re: [Sugar-devel] New IRC bot

[David Van Assche]

funny, I offered and set this up about a year ago, and my bot got banned
from the channel because people were paranoid their conversations were being
recorded...

(grin/lol)

D

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 2:57 AM, Aleksey Lim  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> FIY, To keep IRC logs, I've setup IRC bot - supybot[1]. It supports many
> useful plugins[2] including meetings (so, we can replace meetbot with
> more powerful one).
>
> Full irc logs and meeting logs will be stored on [4]
> (each channel has link to meetings page).
>
> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/supybot/
> [2] http://ubottu.com/stdin/supydocs/plugins.html
> [3] http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html
> [4] http://jita.sugarlabs.org/
>
> --
> Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] multiple IM accounts

[David Van Assche]

Problem 2 doesn't seem to be a problem of telepathy, as it can handle
concurrent connections just fine. It would be nice if Sugar could do the
same. This would mean problem 1 stops being important. If there is some
limitation within sugar that forces it to use just one connection, a
dialogue asking for a changeover to the other protocol seems like the only
thing I can think of.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> as part of the effort to make Sugar a more "normal" Telepathy client,
> Sugar should become able to deal with more than one IM account active
> concurrently. Up to now, Sugar's Presence Service will enable the
> Avahi-based one, then disable it if a connection to a Jabber server
> was successful. This will make easier for Sugar users to be able to
> interact with people using GNOME or other desktops.
>
> This raises two problems:
>
> - the same people could appear 2 times. We can fix it up to some point
> by announcing our JID in Avahi, then merging contacts in the UI layer.
>
> - we cannot invite a link-local contact to an activity being shared
> through a jabber server, nor a jabber contact to an activity shared
> through another server (without federation).
>
> The first is not such a big deal, but the second will require careful
> thought about how we expose this limitation to users. Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tomeu
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Re: [Sugar-devel] discovering open clip art library

[David Van Assche]

yeah its carried as standard in most distributions and installed, at least
in then schools I've been to, and connected directly to software packages
like open office and inkscape.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Edward Cherlin  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:12, Christoph Derndorfer
>  wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Bryan Berry  wrote:
> >>
> >> > The describtion of their dms is also so short that I'm not sure what
> >> > to make of it?
> >> there are a lot of notes farther down the page
> >
> > But the top of the page clearly says that the section is deprecated. Also
> > the information that is there doesn't contain enough beef for me to
> > understand whether the solution meets our requirements. Plus it doesn't
> look
> > like it's available anywhere...
>
> Take a look at the openclipart package in Ubuntu, and presumably in
> other distros.
>
> "The Open Clip Art Library is a collection of 100% license-free,
> royalty-free, and restriction-free art that you can use for any purpose."
>
> Or at these.
>
> http://www.freebyte.com/clipart_images_photos_icons/
>
> > Christoph
> >
> > --
> > Christoph Derndorfer
> > co-editor, olpcnews
> > url: www.olpcnews.com
> > e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
> >
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
> http://www.earthtreasury.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Roadmap to 0.88 --- Proposal

[David Van Assche]

Well, most other distros do it... its a great way (only way I can think of)
of showing what's going to be included in the future, but just not
recommened to be runnning in a production environment. In any case, right
now, most locations are pilots that benefit from seeing what's coming up...

kinid Reards,
David Van assche

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) <
boche...@fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> > - Testing: I hope to see much much more testing in this release cycle.
> > Two things should help here: a) I encourage the creation of a testing
> > team. b) The 0.88 release will be packaged early. For testing purposes
> > 0.88 will be packaged for F12. Other distributions are encouraged to do
> > similar.
>
> Do you really want to package an unstable release (for testing
> purpose) into a stable distribution?
>
> Some people might actually be using the stable distribution, and they
> might not be really pleased by having some
> work-in-progress-please-test release forced upon them. :-/
>
> Unless you're talking about packaging 0.88 for F12 but not actually
> pushing it to the stable repository?
>
>
> --
>
> Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
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Re: [Sugar-devel] User workflow sharing "Journal Entries" over USB sticks

[David Van Assche]

and storing images in Base64 for example?

David

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Martin Langhoff
wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Bert Freudenberg 
> wrote:
> > IMHO separating the meta-data from the file itself is a good idea. Having
> one database at the root of the stick is just too fragile. Better store meta
> data next to the file in question, like myimage.jpg and
> myimage.journalentry?
>
> Good point, and the solution you suggest seems good to me too.
>
> Unless Sugar has another mechanism already that "should" be kicking
> in, and for some reason is not working...?
>
>
>
> m
> --
>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>  - ask interesting questions
>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] User workflow sharing "Journal Entries" over USB sticks

[David Van Assche]

its true its an unecessary step in THIS particular scenario, but I'm thiking
more of a universal tool we could rely on for our datar storage, and
something like xmpp file sotrage XEP came to mind. IT contains
rudeimentary autehntication, file storage per person or for mutiple people
(ie a group like scenario) and probably fits via the d tube or x tube
scenario

I'm just saying that if we choose to use xmpp via technology as its main
communicatinos framework we should really nmaximmize its usage. There is so
much undiscovered potential there, so many possible ways of doing even the
simplest of person to person communictaion, persence and sharing. I was not
at ll suggesting that someone replace using USB base data sharing, but
exploring ways in which in on exmple, u could open a dtube with telepathy
between the 2 mechanisms, lets call them usb sticks for now, and transfer
that way, set  presence state, avtar, and any ohter cool sutff xmpp can
do...

I'm jus saying should we be exploring it?

Daivd

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Martin Langhoff
wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:55 PM, David Van Assche 
> wrote:
> > inclydiung usb if that was desired
>
> Maybe your usb disk has a firmware smart enough to run telepathy :-)
>
> Not kidding, at least one of the bugs listed in SL's tracker about
> Journal Entry sharing would be fixed with the JEB-based approach I am
> proposing. And once the Journal can prepare a JEB, you just write it
> to the USB disk mountpoint.
>
> Telepathy in the middle is overengineering a bridge to get from the
> kitchen to the bedroom. I am happy to walk.
>
> In terms of use cases, saving to a USB disk allows for personal
> backups -- like before a complete upgrade / reflash, which is still
> used in many cases.
>
> You wouldn't use a system that didn't let you copy your files to a
> disk, would you?
>
>
>
> m
> --
>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>  - ask interesting questions
>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>



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Re: [Sugar-devel] User workflow sharing "Journal Entries" over USB sticks

[David Van Assche]

This all sounds like a great current solutinon, but shouldn't we be looking
at more long term network ubquity solutions. It seems to be that having a
telepathy backend and frontend would allow us to share files anty which wat
inclydiung usb if that was desired. From my experience in schools, though
they seem like god's gift at the beginning of the semester, teachers end up
cursing the the things left right and center, through no fault of usb, but
that of human error, where people forget/loose/haver them eaten by their
pets, truly)

sorry so to sounds so pessimisitc today, mybe fell out of the wrong side of
the bed,
David

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Martin Langhoff  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Martin Langhoff
>  wrote:
> > Filed it as http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9657 - can't find anything on
>
> And also related: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9658 about the
> impossibility of exchanging data between Sugar versions 0.82 and 0.84
>
> This is rather awkward -- users cannot save their own files to a USB
> stick (pre upgrade) and expect them to work once upgraded.
>
> I don't expect all deployments will use olpc-update :-/
>
>
>
> m
> --
>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>  - ask interesting questions
>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the "Chat/collab leader" issue...

[David Van Assche]

One area I'm a little unsure about is the network connectivity (ie, how
sugar presence interfaces with sugar presence service backend. Presumably it
just uses NM and launched telepathy's RequiredConnection dbus pythong
binding. What's interesting, reading over the developer's manual is that
there are 3 ways of pretty much automating connection and presence, on
demand, automatically, and on request. The difference is not entirely
obvious immediately, but it does show that what sugar presence is currently
doing could be done much more easily, and probably more efficiently by
telepathy directly.

It would also open up better mnagament of VOIP, multi cast video (via
libjingle) and the use of other connection managers (I dont know if this is
really needed or wanted, but the possibility is there)

The question now, is where to start... I mean... are we going to redo all of
sugar.presence and sugar presence service, and let telepathy handle all/most
of the connectivity/presence/collaboration? Right now, the only thing that
is pure telepathy is the dtube collaboration, which to me is also the part
that seems to work the best.

So where to do we start, who is gonna volunteer to do this. I am
volunteering to help, but a lot of it goes above my head. I know the theory
quite well, but I'm afraid of touching  a lot of that code....

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 17:40, David Van Assche 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >So I was looking over the code with some of the #telepathy guys who
> are
> > also under the impression that sugar.presence code could be causing many
> of
> > the collab problems. Main issue is redundancy of code... a lot of what is
> > happening in sugar.presence already happens in telepathy (actually there
> are
> > even comments in sugar.presence code stating this) but until we know to
> what
> > level activities are using sugar.presence, we can't really do anything...
> > since activities would break, I guess we'd need to know what in the
> > sugar.presence modules is being really actively used to migrate to MC
> 5...
> > and give a warning or something, or keep some kind of sym links to the
> old
> > functions... I dunno, kinda above my level of expertise...
>
> Yes, info about presence is duplicated in several places. Any bugs at
> each layer can cause the unreliability we see.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > regards,
> > David van Assche
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Tomeu Vizoso 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 13:16, Benjamin M. Schwartz
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Martin Langhoff wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:54 PM, David Van Assche <
> dvanass...@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>> moving to mission control 5 and letting go of the admittedly
> >> >>> antiquated sugar presence now
> >> > ...
> >> >> If you play with a major component replacement
> >> >>
> >> >>  - test it for scalability & stability over wifi before doing a lot
> of
> >> >> integration work
> >> >
> >> > It's worth noting that moving from the Sugar Presence Service to
> Mission
> >> > Control 5 would not alter our network protocols.  This is purely a
> >> > change
> >> > in how the client software is organized.  Neither regression nor
> >> > improvement in wireless network performance should occur.
> >>
> >> Was about to say this, the work means making sugar activities' code
> >> more similar to GNOME apps, while also removing a daemon. This could
> >> have some effect on how the network is used, but chances are it won't.
> >>
> >> As a first step in removing the PS, I think we should try to implement
> >> the python presence API with MC5 instead of PS. Then we can either
> >> drop the PS or make it a compatibility shim with MC5 while activities
> >> such as eToys make the move.
> >>
> >> We can also take the chance to develop a better API if there's need for
> >> it.
> >>
> >> But in any case, we need to do some exploration now before we can
> >> discuss it in detail.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Tomeu
> >>
> >> --
> >> «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar.
> >> What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
> >> Farning
> >> ___
> >> Sugar-devel mailing list
> >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach  - "Even a stopped clock is right twice a
> day."
>
>
>
> --
> «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar.
> What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
> Farning
>



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Re: [Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the "Chat/collab leader" issue...

[David Van Assche]

Hi,
   So I was looking over the code with some of the #telepathy guys who are
also under the impression that sugar.presence code could be causing many of
the collab problems. Main issue is redundancy of code... a lot of what is
happening in sugar.presence already happens in telepathy (actually there are
even comments in sugar.presence code stating this) but until we know to what
level activities are using sugar.presence, we can't really do anything...
since activities would break, I guess we'd need to know what in the
sugar.presence modules is being really actively used to migrate to MC 5...
and give a warning or something, or keep some kind of sym links to the old
functions... I dunno, kinda above my level of expertise...

regards,
David van Assche

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 13:16, Benjamin M. Schwartz
>  wrote:
> > Martin Langhoff wrote:
> >> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:54 PM, David Van Assche 
> wrote:
> >>> moving to mission control 5 and letting go of the admittedly
> >>> antiquated sugar presence now
> > ...
> >> If you play with a major component replacement
> >>
> >>  - test it for scalability & stability over wifi before doing a lot of
> >> integration work
> >
> > It's worth noting that moving from the Sugar Presence Service to Mission
> > Control 5 would not alter our network protocols.  This is purely a change
> > in how the client software is organized.  Neither regression nor
> > improvement in wireless network performance should occur.
>
> Was about to say this, the work means making sugar activities' code
> more similar to GNOME apps, while also removing a daemon. This could
> have some effect on how the network is used, but chances are it won't.
>
> As a first step in removing the PS, I think we should try to implement
> the python presence API with MC5 instead of PS. Then we can either
> drop the PS or make it a compatibility shim with MC5 while activities
> such as eToys make the move.
>
> We can also take the chance to develop a better API if there's need for it.
>
> But in any case, we need to do some exploration now before we can
> discuss it in detail.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
> --
> «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar.
> What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
> Farning
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Volunteer Opportunity

[David Van Assche]

Mor than the hardware or whether its using a wlan/jabber or even mesh
networking, there are serious underlying problems with collaboration itself,
and my belief is they are in the sugar presence module, though I could be
wrong. Under gnome, mission control 5 is responsible for doing presence
stuff, connections with whathever connetion manager is wanted, and initial
chat inititiation or much creation... from there other parts of telepathy
get involved, though in general its just telepathy that does all the stuff,
and from where the dtubes get involved with the sharing, the problems seem
to stop. That is to say, once a connection has been established between one
ore more other parties, the ride is smooth, the connection stays up and the
collaboration is quite fast and reliable... Its what happens before this
that causes many issues... The detecting of shared activities, users,
intitiating connections, etc.

My suggestion was to get rid of sugar presence and go the gnome/kde way and
directly use telepathy's mission control 5, which in my experience works
very well. I've done some initial testing, got some python scripts that do
the creation, detecting of users, creation of local link mucs, etc... and it
all seems to work smoothly, though I've done non of this in the sugar
environment. If you do take this on, I'd be more than happy to help as
telepathy itself fascinates me, and I've studied the dbus bindings
themselves quite extensively. Empathy, which is built on telepathy seems to
work quite flawlessly too, as do many of the chat clients and other apps
used in maemo/neo freerunner/android Abiword, inkscape and several gnome
game apps use telepathy without issues too (sudoku and tic tac toe come to
mind) but I'm by no means a python or C guru, and have trouble with exactly
how everything works... A lot of the code seems quite complex and I have
difficulty following it, my own code for stuff being duplication of what
already exists out there, and I'd love to be able to have more knowledge to
be able to do more pure collaboration (All the code involved up to the dtube
stage and then the use of the remote dbus bindings for programs, presumably,
one would have to crate these remote dbus bindings too, another part of all
this I'm unsure about)

But yeah... for me sugar presence should be migrated to mission control 5
and I'd bet we'd see a lot of problems just dissapear...

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Gary C Martin  wrote:

> On 6 Nov 2009, at 22:03, Sascha Silbe wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 12:17:32PM -0800, Edward Cherlin wrote:
> >
> >> My experience is that the problems with Collaboration are basic
> >> problems with mesh networking, presumably in hardware, drivers, and
> >> protocols.
> > While I can't (and won't) rule out the local network links (i.e.
> > WLAN in whatever mode), I'm usually connected to a Jabber server
> > using wired networks; still Collaboration doesn't work reliably.
>
> +1
>
> I occasionally run test sessions of 4-6 VM Sugar clients using Salut
> on an internal network (VM simulated, never touching wire/wireless)
> and even basic buddy presence often borks out after ~20min of use. The
> usual fail case is that one client stops seeing all others, but all
> others always pretend to see the missing client (even if it is really
> not there). The only resolution is to reboot all VM clients and hope
> they all can see each other for a while longer.
>
> The often mentioned 'it's poor wireless' may well be an issue in some
> cases, but it's certainly not the main one I see when testing
> collaboration, I dread to think what a class of 30 kids would see if
> collaboration was needed as a core part of a 40min lesson.
> Unfortunately I'm out of my depth on making much head way in pin
> pointing the issues (at one point I even started thinking it was dbus
> intermittently dropping messages).
>
> Regards,
> --Gary
>
> > CU Sascha
> >
> > --
> > http://sascha.silbe.org/
> >
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Mesh

[David Van Assche]

The telepathy-salut connection works on the basis of Avahi (sometimes
called Bonjour) Sometimes also called local-xmpp, and telepathy itself
creates the connections by selecting the connection manager via
Mission control through a dbus method called "RequestConnection" Salut
is kind of an untrusted protocol,in that it doesnt require a password,
like gabble does. Makes it great for ease of use for schools. For
example, Guadalinex-edu has a small app that puts users into groups by
creating local link Multi user chatrooms (teacher creates  these) and
students then join their relevant classroom from a selection of
classrooms/subjects. The association to the MUC then allows for lots
of cool telepathy/xmpp stuff, like transmission of configuration
files, pause,play video/ausio files, switching on/off of certain
software automatically, dtube remote control (teacher can powerdown
laptops, lower voume remotely, lots of other remote control stuff)
Dtubes are really quite awsome, we just haven't thought about all the
possible uses yet.

Telepathy itself could use pretty much any connection manager, though
the XOs are limited to using gabble when there is a jabber server
present, and Salut if not. The actual mesh connection is done on a
hardware level though and is totally unique to the XO as in no other
laptop that I know of has working mesh network capable cards. I think
maybe classmate has capable meshing on some level but its not really
switched on. Unfortunately its meshing suffers from uncontrolled
multicasting, which quickly saturates the the airwaves and brings down
communication with 10+ laptops meshing. It's a cool concept though
but realistically the implementation isn't all that great... not that
I'm saying I could do any better at all :-) Just stating some
observations...

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
 wrote:
> Cecilia Abalde wrote:
>> I think I understood salut ytelepathy gabble telepathy.
>> My question now is:
>> to salut telepathy works there must be some established network?
>> for example a mesh network or a wifi network
>
> Yes.  All of the Telepathy protocols require that there be a working local
> network connection.  They operate on top of a network such as wired
> ethernet, wifi, or mesh.
>
> Of course, the interesting thing about mesh networks (and also "ad hoc"
> networks) is that they are very easy to create, because all you need are
> the laptops.
>
> --Ben
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the "Chat/collab leader" issue...

[David Van Assche]

Don't get me wrong though, I agree thoroughly that we should really
test it and make sure it plays as advertised But I think its gonna
be easier to do that than test/scale/stabalise what we currently have.

David

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:06 AM, David Van Assche  wrote:
> Well, at least on Gnome, Mission Control not only works well, but its
> far more stable and does what its supposed to. Its been very heavily
> tested by Nokia (Maemo), Collabra, Google, openmoko and other heavy
> hitters. I don't really agree that we have something that works with
> sugar presence. In the majority of cases, where  we've had testing
> sessions, though admittedly, with badly callibrated xmpp servers, I
> would go so far as to say that it was attrocious in terms of
> performance and stability. Once connected, collaboration worked great,
> but the stuff that happens before that, which is what sugar presence
> is supposed to be taking care of does not work well at all. If you
> take a look at telepathy-inspector and the advancements in telepathy
> itself, of which mission control 5 is one of the major overhauls, its
> massive improvement over the passed. And one of the main issues was
> that sugar presence used its own bindings, blind sighting a lot of
> what telepathy is doing, which is why currently it simply doesn't
> work. Without a xmpp server, you'll have a field day getting any kind
> of collaboration to work, and even with a really carefully setup
> ejabbberd server full of optimisations, I at least, have not been able
> to get the presence part to reliably do the same thing every time.
> Some times people show up, sometimes they dont sometimes 10 minutes
> later, sometimes with totally weird settings and names Its quite
> clear to me that what may have worked ok in 0.82, now does not. And to
> me that makes total sense, if u look at the timeline, the code, the
> blueprints, and most importantly, the actualised telepathy dbus
> bindings (The presence part has changed completely and looks nothing
> like it did when 0.82 and earlier were coded.)
>
> But dont take my word for it, take a look here and you'll see what I
> mean: 
> http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/chapter.accounts.html
>
> kind regards,
> David Van Assche
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Martin Langhoff
>  wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:54 PM, David Van Assche  
>> wrote:
>>> moving to mission control 5 and letting go of the admittedly
>>> antiquated sugar presence now
>>
>> In planning future work in rpesence and collab stuff, I have a small,
>> humble suggestion.
>>
>> Figuring out if a presence service / collab infra works and scales
>> properly on both wired and wireless networks is hard. Very hard. We've
>> been gotten it wrong several times by looking at the theory (instead
>> of hard-nosed testing).
>>
>> Right now we have something that -- while less than ideal -- at least
>> works for a number of scenarios.
>>
>> If you play with a major component replacement
>>
>>  - test it for scalability & stability over wifi before doing a lot of
>> integration work
>>
>>  - do the integr work on a branch
>>
>>  - test that the integrated thing works stable and scalable
>>
>> Of course that's ideal world stuff. However, the heart of the matter
>> is: approach mission control tentatively... and at least _some_
>> significant testing needs to happen before it's merged...
>>
>> We've gotten this wrong a few times -- I am not keen on repeating the
>> adventures... :-/
>>
>>
>>
>> m
>> --
>>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>>  - ask interesting questions
>>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Stephen Leacock  - "I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue
> that I shall some day die, which is not so." -
> http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html
>



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Re: [Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the "Chat/collab leader" issue...

[David Van Assche]

Well, at least on Gnome, Mission Control not only works well, but its
far more stable and does what its supposed to. Its been very heavily
tested by Nokia (Maemo), Collabra, Google, openmoko and other heavy
hitters. I don't really agree that we have something that works with
sugar presence. In the majority of cases, where  we've had testing
sessions, though admittedly, with badly callibrated xmpp servers, I
would go so far as to say that it was attrocious in terms of
performance and stability. Once connected, collaboration worked great,
but the stuff that happens before that, which is what sugar presence
is supposed to be taking care of does not work well at all. If you
take a look at telepathy-inspector and the advancements in telepathy
itself, of which mission control 5 is one of the major overhauls, its
massive improvement over the passed. And one of the main issues was
that sugar presence used its own bindings, blind sighting a lot of
what telepathy is doing, which is why currently it simply doesn't
work. Without a xmpp server, you'll have a field day getting any kind
of collaboration to work, and even with a really carefully setup
ejabbberd server full of optimisations, I at least, have not been able
to get the presence part to reliably do the same thing every time.
Some times people show up, sometimes they dont sometimes 10 minutes
later, sometimes with totally weird settings and names Its quite
clear to me that what may have worked ok in 0.82, now does not. And to
me that makes total sense, if u look at the timeline, the code, the
blueprints, and most importantly, the actualised telepathy dbus
bindings (The presence part has changed completely and looks nothing
like it did when 0.82 and earlier were coded.)

But dont take my word for it, take a look here and you'll see what I
mean: http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/chapter.accounts.html

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Martin Langhoff
 wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:54 PM, David Van Assche  wrote:
>> moving to mission control 5 and letting go of the admittedly
>> antiquated sugar presence now
>
> In planning future work in rpesence and collab stuff, I have a small,
> humble suggestion.
>
> Figuring out if a presence service / collab infra works and scales
> properly on both wired and wireless networks is hard. Very hard. We've
> been gotten it wrong several times by looking at the theory (instead
> of hard-nosed testing).
>
> Right now we have something that -- while less than ideal -- at least
> works for a number of scenarios.
>
> If you play with a major component replacement
>
>  - test it for scalability & stability over wifi before doing a lot of
> integration work
>
>  - do the integr work on a branch
>
>  - test that the integrated thing works stable and scalable
>
> Of course that's ideal world stuff. However, the heart of the matter
> is: approach mission control tentatively... and at least _some_
> significant testing needs to happen before it's merged...
>
> We've gotten this wrong a few times -- I am not keen on repeating the
> adventures... :-/
>
>
>
> m
> --
>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>  - ask interesting questions
>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>



-- 

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [pkg-fso-maint] Sugar on OpenMoko Freerunner

[David Van Assche]

I'm sure u can get around the enter name and password thing by giving
control directly to mission control, via telepathy, and local link
xmpp, or anonymous xmpp if u wanna use a xmpp server... but seems like
generally telepathising the openmoko  would be fun and make sense for
all its comm capabilities. Someone built a pretty decent openmoko
chat/voip/video client for the openmoko using python bindings, or was
ir for
 maemo..

Hhmm, actually looking a bit  at the openmoko apps, it seems there is
alreafy a ton of telepathy based stuff for it,Just out of
curiosity people I've spoken to all said android based phones are
nicer to hack on than freerunner/maemo... What's you're opinion. If
tou were forced to use just one platform which would u chooose. I
wanna get something to play/hack on, but I'm unsure what I should go
for...

kind regards,
Daifd Van Assche

n Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:26 AM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
> Hi Arne (and others),
>
> On Tue, Nov 03, 2 009 at 05:50:51PM +0100, arne anka wrote:
>>>
>>> I needed to temporarily hack the Sugar-toolkit library to not run the
>>> initial what-is-your-name window in fullscreen, to allow a virtual keyboard
>>> to appear - as the device have no interface for a real keyboard.
>>
>>
>> i don't knwo exactly, what that window is supposed to do, but if it
>> addresses multiple users, it is probably unnecessary on the fr (that's, what
>> nodm is for comparedto other desktop managers, forcing you to login)
>
> I do use nodm - the issue is Sugar-specific: When logging in for the first
> time ever, the user is asked to personalize ccount by providing a name
> and picking a color for the XO avatar.
>
> It made good sense for the Dynabook concept which Sugar originally was
> designed for (materialized as OLPC XOs a.k.a. "the $100 laptop project"),
> but for better support of general *nix systems it makes sense to me to only
> ask for a name if "getent passwd" does not contain a fullname.  Hmm, if none
> of the cool developers capture this lazy comment, I should probably file a
> bugreport at Sugarlabs. :-)
>
>
>>> ...oh, and also - unrelated to Sugar - I need to make the phone stack on
>>> the device actually work: currently a dialog pops up to unlock my SIM card
>>> but I still cannot receive or initiate phone calls. :-P
>>
>>
>> sounds like you got ophonekitd installed.
>> you should look for the shr-[contacts|dialer|messages] packages.
>
> Possibly.
>
> I finally got around to subscribing to your mailinglist now, and this issue
> is probably better suited only at that list, so I will repost there.
>
> For the context of this thread it was only meant as a joke: I can run Sugar
> on the gadget, but not yet use it as a phone. :-)
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>  - Jonas
>
> --
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the "Chat/collab leader" issue...

[David Van Assche]

Hey,
   I mentioned this to Walter on IRC the other day, but I'd very much
like to participate in anything telepathy based, especially, maybe
moving to mission control 5 and letting go of the admittedly
antiquated sugar presence now, I do need some guidance though, as I am
by no means  a python guru, though I've really digested telepathy and
have a pretty good feeling for the dbus bindings it has, as well as
the way D-tubes work. I didnt realise the power of having basically
networked dbus until I really got the d-tubes. It even lends a great
deal of power to things like LTSP, by being able to remotely  control
rudimentary elements that are otherwise quite difficult (remote volume
control, rmote power off, remote switch users, remote control of many
kinds... I could imagine almost a remote dashboard... much like italc,
but with more power. and able to do things I havent even thought
about yet I know its exciting stuff though I dont thnink I'll
be able to make it to Bolzano, but I understand there will be  a
strong remote presences... so I'd be happy to help out in that area,

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 15:07, Benjamin M. Schwartz
>  wrote:
>> Martin Langhoff wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Gary C Martin  wrote:
>>>> Other activities that support some form of collaboration like Chat, Browse,
>>>> Etoys, TurtleArt, Arithmetic, Maze, Pippy, etc, etc, don't care who started
>>>> the activity first, or who goes away.
>>>
>>> Are you positive about this? I don't meant to troll -- but I am seeing
>>> issues (with Chat for example) where if the leader goes, 3rd parties
>>> cannot join anymore.
>>
>> That is remarkable, and worth investigating.  The Chat activity in
>> particular is designed to survive loss of the initiator, and has been
>> since the very first release.
>>
>> One related issue is  http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/934 .  Once the
>> initiator leaves, the initiator can no longer re-join due to an issue in
>> the GUI.  That bug contains a patch, but it's unclear to me whether that
>> patch was ever applied.  Maybe Tomeu can clarify the situation.
>
> It wasn't applied because without nobody else giving it a look and
> doing some testing it was too risky.
>
> It's not too late to make a new bugfix release that is shipped in
> SoaS2 or even in 0.84 on F11 on XO-1.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
>
> --
> «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar.
> What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
> Farning
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Tutorius Demo and Meeting

[David Van Assche]

Please put them in linux-for-education.org. Pages too if u do more
work doing than the person that currently has one not only do you get
his (his responsibility to engrave"I lost this tshirt in good shame
and faith, but by the batttlecry of Eureeeka, I will reclaim it one
again-2 to Full Name

I think its a fun idea, and it could be a thing for various distros
and various themes. Almost like pledges to get, like in
xbox-playstation(nintendo)

Lets say for Linux-for-education.org there are only 10 tshirts for
now. the major distros do somethin similar, doesnt even have to be in
area of IT a cool limited edition t-shirt,

This should put some computition into dox writing triaging and bug bashing.


Along with the pages, we must have at least 1 judge, robbed, robber
eh achhievements.  publicly show it off in the liunux wall of shame page.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Erick Lavoie  wrote:
> As discussed before, Tutorius is a project done by 9 students from
> Université de Sherbrooke (Québec, Canada) aiming to integrate interactive
> tutorials inside Sugar to guide Sugar users in learning the platform and its
> activities.  Our goal for december is to be able to cover most of the
> content of the Floss manual.
>
> We are doing this along 3 axis:
>
> Execution: Add the mecanisms needed to Sugar to support execution of
> tutorials
> Creation: Provide tools to create tutorials from within Sugar in a GUI
> environment
> Sharing: Provide a platform to share tutorials on the web
>
> We have shown demos in the past of basic capabilities (in chronological
> order), here, here and at a presentation given last April.
>
> Next Friday, we will hang around on IRC at 13h EST and give a live demo of
> the current state of the project using Yuuguu or something equivalent, with
> an execution engine running in a separate process than the activity, an
> overhauled tutorial creator (still running inside the activity process) and
> maybe a quick overview of the sharing platform based around the addon
> sharing platform from Mozilla.
>
> We would like to exchange ideas with people and discuss technical matters
> with the following goals:
>
> Receive feedback on the work done so far
> Discuss the possible integration of our system with Sugar, the SugarLabs
> sharing platform and the official release cycle
> Anticipate possible evolutions
> Exchange ideas and pointers to similar work and papers to inspire ourselves
> and avoid duplicating research efforts
>
> Our team will disband around mid-december, but I'll keep maintaining the
> project and there might be possibilities for another team of 6-8 people from
> Université de Sherbrooke to push the project further in January for another
> year. It would be really exciting to see a collaboration with SugarLabs
> continue in the future!
>
> For those interested in a more technical view of the inner working of the
> system, see Tutorius Architecture, especially the Component section.
>
> See you on IRC on Friday at 13h EST!
>
> Erick Lavoie
> for Tutorius
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] 0.86 plans

[David Van Assche]

And we are relying on jhconvert for openSUSE rpms too. Outside that we
maintain more than 50 honey activities via oBS.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Aleksey Lim  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:06:56AM -0400, Walter Bender wrote:
> > I am planning to blog about the plans for 0.86 in the various distros.
> > In order to ensure I get my facts straight, I am asking that those of
> > you involved in packaging please send me a sentence or two describing
> > your targets.
>
> Among jhconvert's official repos,
>
> Mandriva:
>0.86 was packaged to development repository and will be in the next
>2010.0 release(2009-11-03)
>
> --
> Aleksey
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[Sugar-devel] DB module for moodle in XS server serously coool and needed addittion

[David Van Assche]

To create a easy reference for linux commands, the best way was to use the
Moodle database module. You can create quite elaborate databases which are
then easily edited and added to by users.

There are only 4 entries in it right now, but the idea is for it to get
filled up. So give it a go...

http://www.linux-for-education.org/mod/data/view.php?id=2747

The idea is, that this approach can be used for making the incredibly
powerful and simple to use dbs for XS moodle installs to contain important
materials such as a testing DB, general equipment DB, commands DB, hell even
a local apps DB that links ot applications.sugarlabs.org

Anyway, I remember Marting Langhoff trying to grab people's attention to
this great module, well above is an  implementation example which not only
works, but looks ok to..

kind regaards,
David Van Assche
linux-for-education.org -- www.nubae.com


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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[David Van Assche]

Yeah, with that many clients, I'd play with the s2s option to load balance
the xmpp traffic. Either that, and/or take out all debugging options, error
feedback, and the like, so you only get the needed traffic... This page
gives some tuning options:
http://www.ejabberd.im/tuning

Enabling Gadget is supposed to really help, too. Please let us know how it
all goes, as this kind of information is invaluable. From the realtively few
reports we get about collaboration scaling, it seems xmpp based sharing is
not very widespread yet. I guess this is fortunate in one way (things
generally work), but unfortunate in another (not enough feedback)

Also this from ejabberd site:

"Kernel poll reduces ejabberd's CPU usage when it has hundreds (or more)
network connections. It does not affect memory consumption or latency, so if
you plan to support great amounts of simultaneous connected users, you
really want to have a Jabber server with Kernel Poll support."
There is also the possibility of using a different server, but from
everything mentioned, it does seem like Erlang based ejabberd will scale
better than anything else. But good things have been said about Java based
Openfire and Tigase, and Lua based Prosody. We are actually doing an
internal evaluation of the various xmpp servers at my work, so I'll try
publishing that...

good luck,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Andrés Nacelle  wrote:

> Hi David, we're aware of this situation. In fact we attempt to share
> activities between this mush XO in order to compare the performance against
> the ejabber. We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
> will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
> Neighbourhood view.
> Without the ejabber lots of udp traffic is generated, from which about 60%
> are retransmissions. If ejabber is used you still should get an improvement
> on the performance if you disable the beacons and the probe response, they
> can produce saturation in the net for some seconds.
>
> Thank for you advise and help.
>
> Andres Nacelle
>
> 2009/8/14 David Van Assche 
>
> Hi Andrés,
>>   The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is
>> a common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
>> have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
>> running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.
>>
>> kind regards,
>> David Van Assche
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle <
>> anace...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello you all,
>>>
>>> In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.
>>>
>>> Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
>>> version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
>>> which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
>>> (or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
>>> case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
>>> doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
>>> the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
>>> there look for the SO version.
>>> Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about
>>> the mesh issue.
>>> Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh
>>> for more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.
>>>
>>> On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been
>>> said in the mailing list.
>>>
>>> Thank
>>>
>>> Andres Nacelle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 
>>>
>>> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
>>>> > Hi all,
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
>>>> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>>>> >
>>>> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
>>>> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>>>>
>>>> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
>>>> reliability of the mesh network?
>>>>
>>>> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
>>>> > home wi

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[David Van Assche]

Hi Andrés,
  The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is a
common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle  wrote:

> Hello you all,
>
> In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.
>
> Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
> version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
> which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
> (or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
> case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
> doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
> the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
> there look for the SO version.
> Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about the
> mesh issue.
> Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh for
> more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.
>
> On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been said
> in the mailing list.
>
> Thank
>
> Andres Nacelle
>
>
>
>
> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 
>
> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
>> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>> >
>> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
>> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>>
>> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>>
>> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
>> reliability of the mesh network?
>>
>> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
>> > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
>> > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
>> > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>> >
>> > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
>> > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>> >
>> > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
>> > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>>
>> I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
>> those files and more details about the workflow?
>>
>> About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
>> that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
>> non-sugar computers.
>>
>> I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
>> every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
>> happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
>> publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.
>>
>> > 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
>> > Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>>
>> Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
>> activity logs would help here.
>>
>> > 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
>> > to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
>> > by accident.
>>
>> Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
>> we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
>> data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
>> 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
>> while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.
>>
>> > Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
>> > shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>>
>> That's the Million Laptops Question ;)
>>
>> We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>>
>> Tomeu
>>
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Gabriel
>> >
>> >
>> > -- Mensaje reenviado --
>> >
>> > Quisiera que supieras que tenemos alg

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

[David Van Assche]

Ok, I think what's happening here is a breakdown in communication. When I
used the term obvious, I was talking about Christoph's email... I was
stating that perhaps the message, as I understood it, was that we need more
data from the field... and that _the message_ was not obvious enough in the
email. I never meant that the feedback was not obvious enough... or that
developers were not doing enough to keep us informed.

I really hope this makes sense. I'm a little concerned that I have to be so
careful about wording. I sort of get the feeling that should one make any
type of constructive criticism, this is immediately construed as a threat,
and the person writing the criticism is forced to walk on egg shells.

I understand that talking about what can be done better, or what should have
been done that wasnt, etc causes very emotional responses because of the
time people have given to the project, but should we really just shut up
about this stuff? Or is there value to hearing people's opinions on how
things could be improved?

And on that note, I'd like to hear how I can improve gathering feedback for
our Autonomous region, based on methods currently in place elsewhere. What
I'm asking for is links to documentation that show how this has been done
till now in South America, Nepal and Asia, Africa, Europe. I've looked
around, but there is not too much information on the web. My idea is to try
and automate this as much as possible by creating a set of scripts, or
plugins that can measure stats and then send these (probably via xmpp)

Someone mentioned munin, but this doesn't really give user statistics much
though... its more of a network tool for servers for measuring performance,
resource usage, and graphing these. What I am talking about is digitising
the current manual feedback that is happening elsewhere (how many users
running which apps, lesson plans being used, languages, how many computers
requiring repairs, general problems people are running into, and generally
people's feelings on sugar usage, maybe even surveys)

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:17, David Van Assche
> wrote:
> > I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we
> need
> > more data from the field"
>
> Well, I also understood that you said that it wasn't obvious enough.
> Which surprised me after all the noise lately about getting feedback.
>
> Anyway, I'm seeing feedback coming right now and also efforts to
> organize feedback gathering. So, let's do it!
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary,
> I
> > am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh,
> and I
> > am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am
> > saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make
> sense?
> > Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing
> > it?
> >
> > regards,
> > David
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche
> >> wrote:
> >> > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it
> as
> >> > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small
> >> > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening
> >> > on a
> >> > larger scale in the third world.
> >>
> >> Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all?
> >>
> >> > And its important to acknowledge the
> >> > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely.
> >>
> >> And isn't this stating the obvious?
> >>
> >> > I think
> >> > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way
> more
> >> > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large
> >> > scale,
> >> > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have
> >> > some
> >> > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.
> >>
> >> I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we
> >> make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and
> >> visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that
> >> feedback.
> >>
> >> You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by
> >> Walter and me and tell here again if we d

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

[David Van Assche]

>From my end, I can offer extensive feedback on Sugar usage in Andalucian
schools, when we ship our next release in September. As this is a pretty
controlled environment, we should be able to get some automated statistics.
I'd love to hear some ideas on this. What could we install on the client
sugar sessions to track things... perhaps, programs being used, length of
time used, internet connectivity or not, etc. What I'm saying is, we could
build some kind of statistic tracking into the computers as long as its not
efficiency damaging or privacy violating...

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:17 PM, David Van Assche
> wrote:
> [snip]
> > Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing
> > it?
>
> We all seem to agree that feedback is important.
>
> We mostly agree that there is value in feedback from all deployments,
> big and small.
>
> We are currently getting valuable feedback from the field: Sur, the
> Ceibal blogs, reports from Nepal, Greg's reports from GPA, et al.
>
> We need more feedback and therefore we are exploring additional means
> of getting it. You ideas are welcome!
>
> -walter
>
> [snip]
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

[David Van Assche]

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we need
more data from the field"

I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, I
am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, and I
am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am
saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make sense?
Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing
it?

regards,
David

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche
> wrote:
> > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as
> > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small
> > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on
> a
> > larger scale in the third world.
>
> Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all?
>
> > And its important to acknowledge the
> > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely.
>
> And isn't this stating the obvious?
>
> > I think
> > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more
> > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large
> scale,
> > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have
> some
> > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.
>
> I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we
> make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and
> visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that
> feedback.
>
> You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by
> Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback.
>
> It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time
> on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't
> want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think
> we don't want to know about them.
>
> Frustratedly yours,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > kind Regards,
> > David Van Assche
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph
> >> Derndorfer wrote:
> >> > Sean DALY schrieb:
> >> >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful
> to
> >> >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be
> >> >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar
> >> >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large
> >> >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback
> >> >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in
> >> >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the
> >> >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers.
> >> >>
> >> > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement...
> >>
> >> Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews.
> >>
> >> In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned
> >> from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger
> >> scaled, less controlled environments.
> >>
> >> Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback
> >> from large scale deployments.  Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from
> >> creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world.  _all_ it
> >> states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as
> >> lessons have been learned.
> >>
> >> And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard.
> >> Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the
> >> project.
> >>
> >> david
> >>
> >> > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations
> in
> >> > a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar
> >> > installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at
> >> > worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this
> case
> >> > GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in
> >> > just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs.
> regular
> >> > year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25
> >> > installati

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

[David Van Assche]

H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as
being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small
deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on a
larger scale in the third world. And its important to acknowledge the
differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. I think
what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more
data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large scale,
and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have some
cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph
> Derndorfer wrote:
> > Sean DALY schrieb:
> >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to
> >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be
> >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar
> >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large
> >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback
> >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in
> >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the
> >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers.
> >>
> > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement...
>
> Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews.
>
> In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned
> from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger
> scaled, less controlled environments.
>
> Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback
> from large scale deployments.  Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from
> creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world.  _all_ it
> states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as
> lessons have been learned.
>
> And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard.
> Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the
> project.
>
> david
>
> > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations in
> > a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar
> > installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at
> > worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this case
> > GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in
> > just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. regular
> > year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25
> > installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power
> > infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team consisting
> > of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to
> > maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils in
> > a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in
> > urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and I
> > could go on...).
> >
> > Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general
> > nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes,
> > projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be
> > able to learn many things from the GPA pilot.
> >
> > But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the
> > reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar users are much
> > more likely to be found in Ancash, Kigali or Sichuan rather than Boston,
> > London or Vienna. And I doubt that you'll find too many schools in those
> > places that have a profile similar to GPA [1].
> >
> > Just my 2 Nepali Rupees,
> > Christoph
> >
> > [1] "The Gardner Pilot Academy is the flagship full-service community
> > school within the Boston Public Schools (BPS). The school's vision is to
> > educate the minds and develop the characters of all students in
> > partnership with families and community. To achieve this GPA provides
> > high quality teaching along with a range of social, emotional and
> > enrichment programs delivered by means of partnerships with an array of
> > community organizations and individuals. Over the past twelve years, GPA
> > has developed strong associations with four universities, several health
> > and mental health agencies, the YMCA, and various organizations teaching
> > visual and performing arts. As one of just 20 

[Sugar-devel] article about Sugar in Wired magazine

[David Van Assche]

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2009/08/inventing-a-new-paradigm-sugarlabs-and-the-sugar-ui/

enjoy

David Van Assche

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Re: [Sugar-devel] TuxPaint and saving to journal (Was: Duplication of effort)

[David Van Assche]

Well its not that it doesn't resolve, it goes to a page not found...

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Christoph Derndorfer <
christoph.derndor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:30 PM, David Van Assche wrote:
>
>> the activity handbook link on the Almanac page is broken...
>>
>
> That doesn't really come as a surprise since the OLPC Austria Web site
> (where the Activity Handbook is hosted on the wiki) has been down for the
> past week or so... :-/
>
> Christoph
>
> --
> Christoph Derndorfer
> co-editor, olpcnews
> url: www.olpcnews.com
> e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
>



-- 

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Re: [Sugar-devel] TuxPaint and saving to journal (Was: Duplication of effort)

[David Van Assche]

the activity handbook link on the Almanac page is broken...

David

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:03, Christoph
> Derndorfer wrote:
> > I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the Sugar Almanac so far:
> > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Almanac
> >
> > IMHO this is the best place to get you started with Sugar development.
>
> Yeah, but for now it's only python :/
>
> We need people to keep contributing to it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > Christoph
> > --
> > Christoph Derndorfer
> > co-editor, olpcnews
> > url: www.olpcnews.com
> > e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
> >
> ___
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>



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Re: [Sugar-devel] HelloWorld documentation in sugarlabs wiki

[David Van Assche]

They are at least available at linux-for-education.org as moodle
courses. It would be great if we start getting used to create moodle
courses instead of wiki entries for anything that is kinda like a
lesson or a tutorial, as it means easier grouping, moving, choosing,
translating, and more complex modifying...

It takes about 15 minutes to convert a wiki entry into a moodle course...

David

P.S. If we dont create the content for the deployments no one will!!

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote:
> On 07/02/2009 11:45 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:13, Simon Schampijer  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> do we have those resources available on the sugarlabs wiki already?
>>>
>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_tutorial
>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Making_Sugar_Icons
>>>
>>> And I guess would be cool to get the hello-world example as well in git.
>
> http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world
>
> Done,
>    Simon
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[Sugar-devel] Fwd: REVU: [ubuntu/karmic] gears 0.5.21.0~svn3334+dfsg-0ubuntu1 (New)

[David Van Assche]

interesting gears now .debbed for ubuntu guess alien might be
enough to make the rpm?

D


-- Forwarded message --
From: Stefan Lesicnik 
Date: Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: REVU: [ubuntu/karmic] gears 0.5.21.0~svn3334+dfsg-0ubuntu1 (New)
To: Siegfried Gevatter 
Cc: Ubuntu-MOTU Mailing list 


On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Siegfried Gevatter wrote:
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Ubuntu Installer 
> Date: 2009/7/1
> Subject: [ubuntu/karmic] gears 0.5.21.0~svn3334+dfsg-0ubuntu1 (New)
> To: Siegfried Gevatter , MOTU
> , Stefan Lesicnik 
>
>
> NEW: gears_0.5.21.0~svn3334+dfsg.orig.tar.gz
> NEW: gears_0.5.21.0~svn3334+dfsg-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
> NEW: gears_0.5.21.0~svn3334+dfsg-0ubuntu1.dsc
>
> gears (0.5.21.0~svn3334+dfsg-0ubuntu1) karmic; urgency=low
>
>  * Initial release (LP: #244245).

Hey! Just to let everyone know, this works for x86 & amd64!  Gears
from the .xpi from the website doesn't support 64! It also works with
Prism. I am pretty sure we are the first distribution to include gears
in our repo.

At the moment, Firefox 3.5 is not supported.  - As soon as upstream
releases code that starts to work, I will update this.

Stefan

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

[David Van Assche]

This has been the most sobering email yet... practical and logical...
lets see if we can keep going in a constructive route like this

kind regards,
David

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Caroline Meeks wrote:
> I agree with much of what has been said. Sugar on a Stick should not be
> linked to any one distro.
>
> The way I look at it is there are currently potentially three ways a kid can
> get access to "their" Sugar.
>
> 1. One-to-One Laptops - Each kid gets a laptop.
> 2. Virtualization - When you are connected to the network you have access to
> your Sugar desktop.
> 3. Sugar on a Stick - The kid has a USB or SD Card and carries that around
> for use in different computers.
>
> None of these are inherently distro dependent and as the technology matures
> there are more and more choices for each.
>
> Note that the vision is Sugar on a Stick may reboot the computer and/or the
> same stick may run with a VM or LTSP.
>
> I thought we had decided to use Flavors? i.e. Sugar on a Stick Strawberry is
> our current release and it is based on Fedora 11.
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 6:18 PM, David Van Assche 
> wrote:
>>
>> Sean... u stated it very correctly. Lets leave whats under the hood,
>> there where its supposed to be... we are driving a car, and whether
>> thats a mercedes, bmw or ford really shouldnt matter as long as it
>> drives now if u want specific items in your car or u want your car
>> to drive in a particular style and speed, then have a look see what
>> the different car brands do and how they differ but just cause u
>> like car X, doesn't mean that is the only term used to describe what
>> it is you are driving...
>>
>> Thats just one simple analogy, but its relevant to just about anything
>>
>> SoaS = Sugar on a Stick is a generic term that doesn't in any way hint
>> at what distro its aimed for. Thats the reason why I suggested sub
>> SoaS to define distros, like FedSoaS, but whatever... if SoaS is what
>> most people want to brand the fedora SoaS product, go ahead... but
>> it'll confuse people for sure..
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:29 PM, David Van Assche
>> wrote:
>> > ok,
>> >  This is becoming silly...
>> > Fedora nor Sugarlabs (and I think I consider myself quite a central
>> > contributor to sugarlabs) does not have a patent, trademark or
>> > anything else that should somehow allow it to kidnap the term sugar on
>> > a stick, which is a far too generic term to be kidnapped by anyone. I
>> > will, and in public too, call any distribution that contains sugar on
>> > a usb/SD or any other kind of stick Sugar on a stick (SoaS) as that is
>> > what it technically is. I'll end the discussion at that as going any
>> > further is probably going to spiral into something resembling a
>> > non-sensical flame war.
>> >
>> > David Van Assche
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 PM, James Zaki
>> > wrote:
>> >> +1 Bert and others
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> Outside of the opensource world I've seen many non-mainstream groups
>> >> become
>> >> too thinly spread due the many dedicated individuals involved together.
>> >> I've
>> >> seen in first hand in a few different sports, and know of it in a
>> >> couple of
>> >> other examples, such as French left wing political parties.
>> >>
>> >> I dont want to repeat everyone, but I fully agree with SoaS being
>> >> Fedora,
>> >> and other distros a seperate thing for those want to do that.
>> >> If distro support was a task for the sweet sugar people there would be
>> >> less
>> >> resources on actual sugar development.
>> >>
>> >> Forgive me, as I tend to have a habit of stating the obvious.
>> >> James
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:53:48 +0200
>> >> From: Bert Freudenberg 
>> >> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release
>> >>        flurry  planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
>> >> To: Sugar-dev Devel 
>> >> Cc: Marketing > >>>,  IAEP List
>> >>        
>> >> Message-ID: <4c153f4b-8bb5-4583-a9a2-f5620667a...@freudenbergs.de>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>> >>
>> >> On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote:
>> >>
>> >

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

[David Van Assche]

Sean... u stated it very correctly. Lets leave whats under the hood,
there where its supposed to be... we are driving a car, and whether
thats a mercedes, bmw or ford really shouldnt matter as long as it
drives now if u want specific items in your car or u want your car
to drive in a particular style and speed, then have a look see what
the different car brands do and how they differ but just cause u
like car X, doesn't mean that is the only term used to describe what
it is you are driving...

Thats just one simple analogy, but its relevant to just about anything

SoaS = Sugar on a Stick is a generic term that doesn't in any way hint
at what distro its aimed for. Thats the reason why I suggested sub
SoaS to define distros, like FedSoaS, but whatever... if SoaS is what
most people want to brand the fedora SoaS product, go ahead... but
it'll confuse people for sure..

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:29 PM, David Van Assche wrote:
> ok,
>  This is becoming silly...
> Fedora nor Sugarlabs (and I think I consider myself quite a central
> contributor to sugarlabs) does not have a patent, trademark or
> anything else that should somehow allow it to kidnap the term sugar on
> a stick, which is a far too generic term to be kidnapped by anyone. I
> will, and in public too, call any distribution that contains sugar on
> a usb/SD or any other kind of stick Sugar on a stick (SoaS) as that is
> what it technically is. I'll end the discussion at that as going any
> further is probably going to spiral into something resembling a
> non-sensical flame war.
>
> David Van Assche
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 PM, James Zaki wrote:
>> +1 Bert and others
>>
>> 
>> Outside of the opensource world I've seen many non-mainstream groups become
>> too thinly spread due the many dedicated individuals involved together. I've
>> seen in first hand in a few different sports, and know of it in a couple of
>> other examples, such as French left wing political parties.
>>
>> I dont want to repeat everyone, but I fully agree with SoaS being Fedora,
>> and other distros a seperate thing for those want to do that.
>> If distro support was a task for the sweet sugar people there would be less
>> resources on actual sugar development.
>>
>> Forgive me, as I tend to have a habit of stating the obvious.
>> James
>> 
>>
>>
>> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:53:48 +0200
>> From: Bert Freudenberg 
>> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release
>>        flurry  planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
>> To: Sugar-dev Devel 
>> Cc: Marketing >>,  IAEP List
>>        
>> Message-ID: <4c153f4b-8bb5-4583-a9a2-f5620667a...@freudenbergs.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote:
>>
>>> Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian,
>>> or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is
>>> NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call
>>> my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what
>>> it is...
>>
>> You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS
>> means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a
>> USB flash drive.
>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALY wrote:
>>>> I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is
>>>> Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other
>>>> distros?
>>
>> No, there are no such plans currently.
>>
>> IMHO we should not water down the meaning of "SoaS".
>>
>> - Bert -
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

[David Van Assche]

ok,
  This is becoming silly...
Fedora nor Sugarlabs (and I think I consider myself quite a central
contributor to sugarlabs) does not have a patent, trademark or
anything else that should somehow allow it to kidnap the term sugar on
a stick, which is a far too generic term to be kidnapped by anyone. I
will, and in public too, call any distribution that contains sugar on
a usb/SD or any other kind of stick Sugar on a stick (SoaS) as that is
what it technically is. I'll end the discussion at that as going any
further is probably going to spiral into something resembling a
non-sensical flame war.

David Van Assche


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 PM, James Zaki wrote:
> +1 Bert and others
>
> 
> Outside of the opensource world I've seen many non-mainstream groups become
> too thinly spread due the many dedicated individuals involved together. I've
> seen in first hand in a few different sports, and know of it in a couple of
> other examples, such as French left wing political parties.
>
> I dont want to repeat everyone, but I fully agree with SoaS being Fedora,
> and other distros a seperate thing for those want to do that.
> If distro support was a task for the sweet sugar people there would be less
> resources on actual sugar development.
>
> Forgive me, as I tend to have a habit of stating the obvious.
> James
> 
>
>
> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:53:48 +0200
> From: Bert Freudenberg 
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release
>        flurry  planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
> To: Sugar-dev Devel 
> Cc: Marketing >,  IAEP List
>        
> Message-ID: <4c153f4b-8bb5-4583-a9a2-f5620667a...@freudenbergs.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote:
>
>> Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian,
>> or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is
>> NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call
>> my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what
>> it is...
>
> You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS
> means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a
> USB flash drive.
>
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALY wrote:
>>> I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is
>>> Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other
>>> distros?
>
> No, there are no such plans currently.
>
> IMHO we should not water down the meaning of "SoaS".
>
> - Bert -
> ___
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> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)

[David Van Assche]

Well, I'm not going to get dug deeper into a semantic discussion here.
My only point, and I think its quite clear to most people is that the
use of the words sugar on a stick are not solely the property of one
distribution (fedora) and ought not to be coupled with just one
distribution. It should (and this has nothing to do with word policing
of any kind, as funny as that remark might be) describe the medium by
which sugar is delivered (a usb stick) Nowhere is there any mention of
something distro specific, nor should there be. The term itself is
great to describe what it is... and other distribution packagers are
bound to use the same terms, since it quite rightly describes the end
product. Just as Sugar on a CD describes very well that product. Like
someone else suggested, if one chooses to brand sugar on a stick for
Fedora, they can come up with a mirriad of names, lollypop being one
of them...

I am actually quite surprised that this discussion is coming up on a
mailing list that is very open source based. Taking ownership of a
very generic term goes against the philosophy/politics of open source
in general. Reminds me of the bbc's patent on urls... they were the
first to use the term click on a link (and patenteted it)

Regards,
David Van Assche

<-- rest snipped for brevity -->
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Re: [Sugar-devel] linux for education portal

[David Van Assche]

And I forgot the actual address of the site of course:
www.linux-for-education.org

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:42 PM, David Van Assche wrote:
> Hi there,
>   We've just launched a pretty decent start for a linux for education
> portal that should contain hundreds (we already have about 50) totally
> creative commons or similar free license courses that can be used
> online directly (guest access to all courses) or downloaded to export
> into one's own e-learning platform (backups are moodle based.) The
> site contains howtos, forums, wikipedias and chatrooms, as well as the
> traditional Moodle courses on a wide array of subjects across the
> board. It is totally free, and will remain that way both in terms of
> beer and ideology. We encourage people to take part in it. It is
> really not too hard to take an existing howto or wiki entry or
> something and turn it into an interactive course. There are plenty of
> examples, and there are also courses on Moodle itself and why one
> should use it. Currently it may seem quite opensuse-centric, but we
> are working hard to make it as generic to linux as possible as we have
> noticed that there isn't really such a comprehensive resource out
> there on this subject matter. We appreciate all help, so please drop
> us a line if you would like to get involved in any way at all.
>
> peace,
> David (nubae) Van Assche
>
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[Sugar-devel] linux for education portal

[David Van Assche]

Hi there,
   We've just launched a pretty decent start for a linux for education
portal that should contain hundreds (we already have about 50) totally
creative commons or similar free license courses that can be used
online directly (guest access to all courses) or downloaded to export
into one's own e-learning platform (backups are moodle based.) The
site contains howtos, forums, wikipedias and chatrooms, as well as the
traditional Moodle courses on a wide array of subjects across the
board. It is totally free, and will remain that way both in terms of
beer and ideology. We encourage people to take part in it. It is
really not too hard to take an existing howto or wiki entry or
something and turn it into an interactive course. There are plenty of
examples, and there are also courses on Moodle itself and why one
should use it. Currently it may seem quite opensuse-centric, but we
are working hard to make it as generic to linux as possible as we have
noticed that there isn't really such a comprehensive resource out
there on this subject matter. We appreciate all help, so please drop
us a line if you would like to get involved in any way at all.

peace,
David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

[David Van Assche]

right, otherwise, imagine I call the openSUSE cd version SoaC, Sugar
on a CD or even SoaVM Sugar on a Virtual Machine am I the only one
who see the broken logic here?

David Van assche

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Benjamin M.
Schwartz wrote:
> This is just a naming problem.  "Sugar on a Stick" is a generic
> descriptive phrase that has been repurposed as a proper noun.  This
> inevitably leads to confusion, because the two meanings do not agree.
>
> I encourage the developers of the Fedora-derived image to adopt a new
> name, to solve this problem.  For the new name, I recommend "Sugar Labs
> Lollipop".
>
> --Ben
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

[David Van Assche]

Well, that ship sailed quite a while ago. I find it hard to believe
that you missed the significant publicity surrounding Sugar being
available on openSUSE in ALL formats (cd/dvd/usb/vm appliance) as I've
been touting that for at least 2 months now. In fact the collaboration
sessions that have been advertised various times quite explicitly talk
about the opensuse variant, which contains a large set of honey apps
(thats what makes it different from Fedora SoaS)

To me, saying stick = Fedora, is like saying Sugar is based solely on
Fedora... which is just totally silly and very harmful for the
distribution of it. Fedora is a very small community in comparison to
the debian based world (which is approximately 60% of the market) then
we also have Mandriva and openSUSE who take another good 25%+ of the
market, conservatively. That leaves Fedora + derivatives with 15% of
the market... (based on distrowatch figures) thats highly undemocratic
to steal the term SoaS to just refer to Fedora (especially since the
term actually came from someone who stuck Sugar on usb via Ubuntu) I
can dig up the references for you guys if you like.

How can Sugar on a Stick (not the term Fedora quite obviously missing
from it) be Fedora centric?

This smells to me like saying Office = microsoft... it smells very
bad... which is why I'm raising my concerns over it somewhat...

David

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote:
>
>> Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian,
>> or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is
>> NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call
>> my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what
>> it is...
>
> You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS
> means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a
> USB flash drive.
>
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALY wrote:
>>> I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is
>>> Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other
>>> distros?
>
> No, there are no such plans currently.
>
> IMHO we should not water down the meaning of "SoaS".
>
> - Bert -
>
> ___
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> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)

[David Van Assche]

Well, here is where I totally disagree. The term SoaS actually came
from the ubuntu derived Sugar on a stick. so by your logic, as it was
'coined' by an individual who chose to put sugar on a usb stick using
ubuntu, who by the same logic is the sole owner and user of that term.
I think that really hurts Sugar in general. There are now at least 4
different version of SoaS that I know of, and I, having worked hard to
bring one to market, feel it detracts from getting sugar out to the
end users. If we start calling the thing a million different names,
its just going to confuse and alienate people, not let them use it. In
essence the experience should be very similar regardless of distro
use, but different packagers will choose to package different things
(case in point being debian which till recently only wanted to
concentrate on 8.2) At events and conferences, when we choose to write
these usb sticks or give out cdroms with sugar, the user should have a
choice as to which underlying distro he wants to have (and yes it does
make a difference), but it should still be called what it actualls is
- Sugar on a usb stick. So when I say agnosticate the term, I mean use
the term as it is semantically appropriate. I for one, will use that
term to define openSUSE running as the base with sugar running on top
of it, and will market it as such. But I will explain that it is
available in multiple flavours

post continues below...

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

<---trim--->

>>Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro... there are enough
>>people willing to help for the different distros , and the more
>>markets the better right?
>
> I completely disagree.
>
> To me, SoaS is a specific distribution coined by Sugar enthusiasts (who
> happen to also most/all of them also to be Sugar developers).
>
> This particular distribution is derived from Fedora.  It might be that
> in the future they decide to switch to Ubuntu or OpenSuSe as platform
> for their development.
>
> It might also be that other distributions emerge based on other major
> distributions.
>
> Whatever happens, let each distribution choose their own name.  Or
> discuss with them to change name - I really don't care.
>
> What concerns me is that Sugarlabs do not dictate naming of external
> projects.

I don't really get what you mean here...

>
> ...and now comes the fun part: Do Sugarlabs feel that SoaS is not
> "external"?

I don't get what is meant by this... can u elaborate?

> I recomend to tream SoaS as a distribution, and I recommend Sugarlabs to
> leave the "distribution" task to others.  Be friendly to any
> distribution that includes Sugar - sure - but don't take on that
> challenge yourself.  There is plenty to do that is more Sugar-specific

what challenge exactly?

kind Regards,
David Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on a Stick Branches

[David Van Assche]

Done...

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Frederick Grose wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM, David Van Assche 
> wrote:
>>
>> Sean and others
>>
>> can we please try and use the term SoaS slighlty more agnostically.
>> Right now, every time its mentioned it always uses the Fedora backend
>> without question or debate. I think of it a little like when someone
>> says write me an office letter (and its quitely assumed by everyonen
>> that they will be using Microsoft word for this) I spoke briefly to
>> Sebastian about this and we suggestd, quite entertainingly:
>>
>> FedSoaS or SoaSora
>> SuSoaS or SoaSuse
>> GenSoaS or SoaS(t)oo
>> DebSoaS or SoaSian
>> ManSoaS or SoaSiva
>> CaSoaS or SoaSica
>>
>> For me, I kind of like the last column
>>
>> Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro... there are enough
>> people willing to help for the different distros , and the more
>> markets the better right?
>
> Good idea.  Please help to adjust
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Linux and
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick#Downloading_alternative_images
>
> to provide the community with specifics for those SoaStick branches or
> variants.
>
>   --Fred
>
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[Sugar-devel] Fwd: [IAEP] [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

[David Van Assche]

sorry ended up going to Sean only...


-- Forwarded message --
From: David Van Assche 
Date: Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] Press release flurry planning
(LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
To: Sean DALY 


Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian,
or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is
NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call
my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what
it is...

David

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALY wrote:
> I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is
> Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other
> distros?
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>> (excluding IAEP from cc list)
>>
>> On 18.06.2009, at 19:45, David Van Assche wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro...
>>
>> Err, SoaS *is* a distro. It currently is based on Fedora, it might get
>> based on something else in the unforeseeable future, but having a
>> gazillion "SoaSes" isn't plan of anything I heard.
>>
>>> there are enough people willing to help for the different distros ,
>>> and the more
>>> markets the better right?
>>
>>
>> Yes, definitely, Sugar needs to be integrated well in many different
>> distros. But that's independed of the SoaS effort.
>>
>> - Bert -
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing
>>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

[David Van Assche]

Sean and others

can we please try and use the term SoaS slighlty more agnostically.
Right now, every time its mentioned it always uses the Fedora backend
without question or debate. I think of it a little like when someone
says write me an office letter (and its quitely assumed by everyonen
that they will be using Microsoft word for this) I spoke briefly to
Sebastian about this and we suggestd, quite entertainingly:

FedSoaS or SoaSora
SuSoaS or SoaSuse
GenSoaS or SoaS(t)oo
DebSoaS or SoaSian
ManSoaS or SoaSiva
CaSoaS or SoaSica

For me, I kind of like the last column

Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro... there are enough
people willing to help for the different distros , and the more
markets the better right?

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Sean DALY wrote:
> We've discussed my idea to do a "flurry" of press releases over the
> next couple of weeks, coinciding with our presence/sessions at:
>
> * LinuxTag
> Berlin
> June 24-27
> http://www.linuxtag.org/2009/en.html
>
> * Free & Open Source Software in Education (FOSSED)
> Bethel, Maine
> June 24-26
> http://www.fossed.com
>
> * National Educational Computing Conference (NECC)
> Washington, DC
> June 28-July 1
> http://center.uoregon.edu/ISTE/NECC2009
> (also EduBloggerCon / Classroom 2.0 "LIVE in DC" on June 27:
> http://www.edubloggercon.com/EduBloggerCon+2009)
>
> * Gran Canaria Desktop Summit (GUADEC+Akademy)
> Canary Islands
> July 3-July 11
> http://www.grancanariadesktopsummit.org/
>
>
> After mulling it over I feel our interests will be best served by two
> press releases (eReleases/PR Newswire + Sugar Labs press page +
> targeted mailing to journalists & educators), with an option for a
> third at GUADEC if there are new developments (very possible over next
> 10 days):
>
> Wednesday, June 24th, datelined LinuxTag:
> SoaS v1 Strawberry release!
> Gould grant / GPA pilot -> classroom tests of SoaS
> 100 GCompris/ASLO -> offer enriched
> XO-1.5 refresh/XO SoaS version -> not forgetting the XO installed base
> Local Labs -> Colombia, Washington DC, Rochester?
> Dailymotion channel -> info source
> Image: SoaS beauty shots
>
> * Monday, June 29th: NECC (Washington DC)
> Nexcopy partnership
> Image: TBD
>
>
> I feel the richness of our news on the day both LinuxTag and FOSSED
> open will increase our chances for wide coverage. I think back-to-back
> releases won't work for our targeted mailing list and including two
> releases in one mailing would be clumsy. This will also simplify
> printing for handouts.
>
> The Nexcopy partnership has a different angle and call to action
> (collect & recycle sticks / gesture for schools) and merits a separate
> treatment.
>
> The deadline for the Wednesday SoaS release is in 24 hours... I will
> put up a draft for the marketing list in a few hours.
>
> I will attend LinuxTag on June 26-27 and SugarCamp/FUDCon June 28th.
>
> If I've forgotten anything, if anyone has better ideas, please by all
> means let me know
>
> thanks!
>
> Sean
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[Sugar-devel] collaborative testing session (tomorrow's meeting, 17th June) reminder

[David Van Assche]

Hi folks,
   This is a reminder about the collaborative sugar testing session we
are having tomorrow, Wednesday 17th June at 19:00 UTC (That is 4 pm
EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that
will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)

We will have a good 10+ people present, if last weeks numbers are
anything to go by. We will be taking notes and storing log files of
the sessions, and will suggest ways in which the activity in question
might be more collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-)

We will be testing the activities that come pre-installed on the
openSUSE sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution
methods (virtual appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least
Fedora SoaS, openSUSE sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) There will of
course be a transcript of the irc session too (we will meet at
#sugar-collaboration) and a report like last week. We forsee this
taking between 1 and 2 hours...

Daveb will be doing all the server side monitoring, such as ejabberd
load, etc. Last week's lag should now be fixed as he has added the
shared roster, and enabled gadget.

Here is the list of activities available on the opensuse sugar cd,
although not all are collaboration capable. Make sure you have the
activities you want to collaborate with installed if you plan to take
part:

sugar-finance
etoys
sugar-flipsticks-activity
sugar-freecell
sugar-imageviewer
sugar-implode
sugar-infoslicer
sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
sugar-joke-machine-activity
sugar-jukebox
sugar-labyrinth
sugar-maze
sugar-memorize
sugar-moon
sugar-paint-activity
sugar-pippy
sugar-playgo
sugar-read
sugar-readetexts-activity
sugar-record
sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
sugar-speak
sugar-storybuilder
sugar-tamtam-common
sugar-tamtam-edit
sugar-tamtam-jam
sugar-tamtam-mini
sugar-tamtam-synthlab
sugar-analyze
sugar-turtleart
sugar-typing-turtle
sugar-viewslides
sugar-write
sugar-browse
sugar-irc
sugar-calculate
sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
sugar-cartoonbuilder
sugar-clock
sugar-colors
sugar-connect
sugar-drgeo-activity
xoEditor
sugar-evince
sugar-fiftytwo
sugar-chat
sugar-terminal
sugar-journal
sugar-physics
sugar-library
sugar-poll
sugar-tuxpaint

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion

[David Van Assche]

I recommend u take a look at the openSUSE offering. I took a careful look at
the activities available and packaged those that seemed useful, relatively
bug free, and fun. I think we have about 55 activities now.

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:09 PM, James Simmons wrote:

>  Aleksey,
>
> That will teach me to open my mouth.  At the moment the only Activities I'm
> really familiar with are my own, Read, and your Library Activity which isn't
> finished (but would definitely be worthy otherwise).  I'll have to add some
> more Activities to my XO and give them a try.  Any suggestions on what might
> be worth a recommended status will be welcomed.
>
> Your other ideas sound good, but I still think we need some highly visible
> counts in there.  As someone once said, "You gotta tell 'em to sell 'em!"
>
> Thanks,
>
> James Simmons
>
>
> Aleksey Lim wrote:
>
> You are an editor now and can do the best 
> onhttp://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/editors/featured ;)
>
> And after fixing #948 all featured activities will appear on main page
> and per category main pages.
>
>
>
>  I also question the category GCompris.  I understand these Activities
> are related to each other, but the relationship would not be meaningful
> to a teacher or a student.
>
>
>  fixed
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
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[Sugar-devel] sugar collaboration session June 10th report

[David Van Assche]

Hi,
  I've published the report for our collaboration session which took place
June 10th 2009. Please leave your comments, especially those who took part.

http://www.nubae.com/collaboration-session-sugar-june10

thanks,
David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Grassroots-l] collaborative testing session (tomorrow's meeting) reminder

[David Van Assche]

Hmm ok, I stand corrected :-) I'm wondering now where I got the 20:00 time
from...

David

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

>
> On 09.06.2009, at 16:16, David Van Assche wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>This is a reminder about the collaborative sugar testing session we are
> having tomorrow, Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm
> EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8
> pm for the UK)
>
>
> Yet again I have to point out you are talking about 19:00 UTC, which on
> June 10th is "4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of
> Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK"
>
>
> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=6&day=10&year=2009&hour=19&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
>
> - Bert -
>
>
>
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[Sugar-devel] collaborative testing session (tomorrow's meeting) reminder

[David Van Assche]

Hi folks,
   This is a reminder about the collaborative sugar testing session we are
having tomorrow, Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm
EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8
pm for the UK)

We will have a good 5-10 people present, but more are welcome as we really
want to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite
obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and
will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more
collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-)

We will be testing the activities that come pre-installed on the openSUSE
sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual
appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE
sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible
with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... Please
post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will
be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to

store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session
too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1
and 2 hours...

I need a volunteer that is shell savvy and can track cpu/ram usage on the
server that is running ejabberd. It will be a good opportunity to see real
life results within ejabberd, in terms of bandwidth usage, cpu usage, ram
usage, etc.

Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
whether/how we can make them collaborative:

sugar-finance
etoys
sugar-flipsticks-activity
sugar-freecell
sugar-imageviewer
sugar-implode
sugar-infoslicer
sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
sugar-joke-machine-activity
sugar-jukebox
sugar-labyrinth
sugar-maze
sugar-memorize
sugar-moon
sugar-paint-activity
sugar-pippy
sugar-playgo
sugar-read
sugar-readetexts-activity
sugar-record
sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
sugar-speak
sugar-storybuilder
sugar-tamtam-common
sugar-tamtam-edit
sugar-tamtam-jam
sugar-tamtam-mini
sugar-tamtam-synthlab
sugar-analyze
sugar-turtleart
sugar-typing-turtle
sugar-viewslides
sugar-write
sugar-browse
sugar-irc
sugar-calculate
sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
sugar-cartoonbuilder
sugar-clock
sugar-colors
sugar-connect
sugar-drgeo-activity
xoEditor
sugar-evince
sugar-fiftytwo
sugar-chat
sugar-terminal
sugar-journal
sugar-physics
sugar-library
sugar-poll
sugar-tuxpaint

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] personalisation and collaboration

[David Van Assche]

Having pondered this a bit more, I came up with a practical example. Lets
say we have a student in Uruguay, lets call him Fernando, and lets say we
have a student in the UK, lets call her Suzy. Suzy's Spanish is not great,
as she hasn't had the chance to delve into it practically, nor is she
getting the right idea about how everyday Spanish is used in Spanish
countries, having relied on terrible cliched examples of her antiquated text
books. Fernando's English is not very good, seeing as the only English he is
subjected to are pirate movies he buys from the local market, so he's
learned more slang than real English. His school isn't even teaching
English, but he desperately wants to learn it.

Colabot knows both of these users, as it has analysed every willing user's
e-portfolio, and knows they would compliment each other perfectly say by
sharing the Speak activity. Colabot could suggest times at which these 2
students could meet virtually and collaborate in order to improve their
language skills. Colabot could keep track of their on going meetings,
showing the amount of hours spent on language learning. Colabot could even
give out an award or recognition after the students had spent X amount of
hours learning together.

The great thing about this example is that it seems to me to be pure
construcionism with technology at its simplest and its best. The 2 students
are teachers to each other, and colabot is there purely in the capacity a
teacher normally should be, to guide the learning process.

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 7:00 AM, David Van Assche
> wrote:
> > Something has been in the back of my head for a while now, ever since
> I've
> > seen the impressive capabilities of being able to share an activity with
> > your neighbourhood. Being able to cooperatively use applications brings a
> > new level of playability to it all, and it reminds me of when I first saw
> > the ability for a computer game to be 'multi-player.'This gave it an
> extra
> > dimension, and with it came the idea of awards for completing certain
> > things, which would be displayed in your dashoard somewhere.The award
> system
> > seems even more relevant for education than it did for games. We'v aleady
> > mentioned the benefits of an award sysem so I'm not going to regugitate
> > that, but what hasnt''t really been spoken about is, how and what kind of
> > personal details should the journal store and share. I see this as a
> > customisable option, something that can be as simple as only sharing
> first
> > names, or sharing the name of your pet, your favorite colors and foods,
> the
> > languages you speak.
> >
> > This detailed information about a person is extremely valuable to the
> > underlying system, as it can potentially match people against each other.
> > This would allow for some interesting possibilities when it comes to
> > collaboration, such as the system suggesting users to
> challenge/collaborate
> > with based on personal information. I thought about having a robot that
> > lives on an irc channel capable of helping with the collaboration
> procedure,
> > as well as listing achievements, giving data on which users want to
> > collaborate, giving help on how collaboration works with particular
> > activities, listing which servers have open collaboration, showing the
> most
> > used/highest rated collaborating activities, etc.
> >
> > I havent thought about this too much in depth, but I know coding a bot is
> > not too hard. I see it as an extension to the speak AI, and encouragement
> to
> > join irc. We can even get the bot to accept uploads of raw learning
> > materials categorised by subject, which can then be used by content
> > creators. it itself could give out quizzes based on particular subjects,
> or
> > interesting pieces of information/knowledge. It could be taught new
> > information, by feeding it localised knowledge. It would be important to
> > know where we set the limits to what it can do.
> >
> > Just some food for thought...
> >
> > David (nubae) Van Assche
> >
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
>
> In general, the idea of bots living in the Sugar neighborhood is a
> theme we haven't explored very much. It would be nice to come up with
> a simple, consistent framework for creating such a resource. Making it
> available through IRC as well is a cool idea.
>
> -walter
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Getting data about the upgrading older machines and SoaS responsiveness.

[David Van Assche]

That's a good point, and I understand the thinking behind it, as if you are
not 'changing' anything in an existing setup, people are less afraid that
things might go terribly wrong. That's the reason we have ltsp on a usb
stick... because you can stick in a server, and test it without installing
anything. Think of it as SoaS server with beaurocratic advantages included
(taking care of networking, providing Sugar images, setting up user
accounts, providng collaboration if necessary. It is by no means the XS
server, nor should it try to be that, its just the desktop environment part
with ejabberd, if needed.. of course, it only works in wired environments.

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 8:19 PM, David Farning wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 12:24 PM, David Van Assche
> wrote:
> > When it come to older pcs, it really makes sense to try and use LTSP. We
> > have created a kiwi-ltsp usb stick for openSUSE, which gives a portable
> ltsp
> > server wherever u plug it in. In most cases it would make sense for this
> to
> > be the most powerful computer. It is as easy as installing the sugar and
> > sugar activities meta packages on this usb image and the users on the
> ltsp
> > network then have access to Sugar from any computer in the network, and
> they
> > are bound to load faster than from a usb image. The advantage is u need
> one
> > usb stick per network, as opposed to one for each terminal... that saves
> > costs, and time. Also, u dont need any of the old hardware, such as cdrom
> > drives, hard drives, etc. Networking and internet is also no issue as if
> it
> > works on the server, it has to work on each of the terminals too...
>
> SoaS is also working on a slightly different issue.
>
> I didn't understand it until Caroline explained it for about the 100th
> time yesterday:)
>
> In addition to all the technical hurdles.  Sugar on a Stick is
> tackling the _bureaucratic_ issue of installing and running Sugar (or
> any software) on systems which one doesn't have admin access.
>
> In many schools it can be difficult to get the authority to install
> software or modify the configuration on their computers.  SoaS
> circumvents that problem by replacing  'install a new OS' with 'insert
> the stick and turn it on.'
>
> The piece that I was _misunderstanding_ was that all of the
> technically hurdles that SoaS introduces are worth the ability to
> circumvent the bureaucratic hurdles.
>
> FWIW, at least in developed nations Once you get the bureaucratic
> permission to 'install' Sugar, a client-server configuration is most
> palatable to the existing generation of elementary school sysadmins.
>
> david
>
> > kind Regards,
> > David (nubae) Van Assche
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Frederick Grose 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Caroline Meeks
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Let me echo Caryl's question. Do we have a page with tasks for new
> >>> volunteers?
> >>
> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO has been restored
> and
> >> is ready to be updated, perhaps restructured to cover this need.
> >>
> >>  --Fred
> >>
> >> ___
> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
> >
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Getting data about the upgrading older machines and SoaS responsiveness.

[David Van Assche]

When it come to older pcs, it really makes sense to try and use LTSP. We
have created a kiwi-ltsp usb stick for openSUSE, which gives a portable ltsp
server wherever u plug it in. In most cases it would make sense for this to
be the most powerful computer. It is as easy as installing the sugar and
sugar activities meta packages on this usb image and the users on the ltsp
network then have access to Sugar from any computer in the network, and they
are bound to load faster than from a usb image. The advantage is u need one
usb stick per network, as opposed to one for each terminal... that saves
costs, and time. Also, u dont need any of the old hardware, such as cdrom
drives, hard drives, etc. Networking and internet is also no issue as if it
works on the server, it has to work on each of the terminals too...

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Frederick Grose  wrote:

>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Caroline Meeks <
> carol...@solutiongrove.com> wrote:
>
>> Let me echo Caryl's question. Do we have a page with tasks for new
>> volunteers?
>>
>
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO has been restored and
> is ready to be updated, perhaps restructured to cover this need.
>
>  --Fred
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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[Sugar-devel] personalisation and collaboration

[David Van Assche]

Something has been in the back of my head for a while now, ever since I've
seen the impressive capabilities of being able to share an activity with
your neighbourhood. Being able to cooperatively use applications brings a
new level of playability to it all, and it reminds me of when I first saw
the ability for a computer game to be 'multi-player.'This gave it an extra
dimension, and with it came the idea of awards for completing certain
things, which would be displayed in your dashoard somewhere.The award system
seems even more relevant for education than it did for games. We'v aleady
mentioned the benefits of an award sysem so I'm not going to regugitate
that, but what hasnt''t really been spoken about is, how and what kind of
personal details should the journal store and share. I see this as a
customisable option, something that can be as simple as only sharing first
names, or sharing the name of your pet, your favorite colors and foods, the
languages you speak.

This detailed information about a person is extremely valuable to the
underlying system, as it can potentially match people against each other.
This would allow for some interesting possibilities when it comes to
collaboration, such as the system suggesting users to challenge/collaborate
with based on personal information. I thought about having a robot that
lives on an irc channel capable of helping with the collaboration procedure,
as well as listing achievements, giving data on which users want to
collaborate, giving help on how collaboration works with particular
activities, listing which servers have open collaboration, showing the most
used/highest rated collaborating activities, etc.

I havent thought about this too much in depth, but I know coding a bot is
not too hard. I see it as an extension to the speak AI, and encouragement to
join irc. We can even get the bot to accept uploads of raw learning
materials categorised by subject, which can then be used by content
creators. it itself could give out quizzes based on particular subjects, or
interesting pieces of information/knowledge. It could be taught new
information, by feeding it localised knowledge. It would be important to
know where we set the limits to what it can do.

Just some food for thought...

David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [math4] Activity Awards, Activity Alerts, Frame Alerts

[David Van Assche]

Yeah, somehow people have very clear memories of their today seemingly
innocent, but personally quite serious at the time,
achievements/awards/stars/buttons, or whatever it was. The journal seems
ilke the clear place to store this information, and it should be done in
such a way that it can be easily printed so as to put on the classroom wall,
the family wall, or even just one's personal wall. The starting and ending
of activities are awards in an of themselves... so these events can be
triggered. For some activities, I'd imagine starting and ending an activity
within a time frame (while getting things correct) would bring up yet
another type of award... or being the last to complete could give you a
thoroughness award... The ideas and possibilities are somehow endless here,
and its really about creating the framework so we can come up with some fun
concepts that can then be refined in real use cases.

I'd imagine that being finished with an activity would trigger something
like a beep (or some other sound, perhaps a personalised one... [that is
another area that I've been thinking about a lot recently too, more
personalisation of the user [[an avatar, personalised sound for event
triggers, mood emblem, best friends, pet, etc]], which can be shared or even
come from Moodle/Mahara which already has a lot of this stuff.] So going
back to the original question, how to know when someone has finished... Well
if every user can personalise their event trigger (like your mobile phone
ringer) then u'd get an idea of who is finishing what when., or starting for
that matter.

kind Regards,
David (nubae)

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Sean DALY  wrote:

> I don't know if this is related from a technical standpoint, but I was
> wondering about the possibility of a mechanism for an Activity to
> signal to a teacher (or the Neighborhood, or a Friend) when an
> Activity task is completed. As a way of simplifying identification of
> students who need more attention on a task than their peers.
>
> Back in the Stone Age when I was in school, this was accomplished
> during a quiz or writing task by the leading students ostentatiously
> throwing their pens down onto their desks and looking around smugly.
> Maybe things have changed in the 21st century?
>
> Dell wants to differentiate their K-8 education netbook offer
> (Latitude 2100) with a white LED bar in the lid which can light up via
> a software call. Although in marketing materials they describe its
> default setting as lighting up when there is any network activity
> (they imply Internet access during study time), their documentation
> states that any software can hook into it. I also read that if the
> idea takes off, they will consider adding other LED colors to the bar,
> so as to indicate simultaneously for example wireless activity /
> Internet activity / application task state, or file transfer / school
> filter hit / low battery condition. In each scenario, allowing the
> teacher to see what is happening at a glance.
>
> Would such status indicators work for Sugar? Should they be visible
> only to the teacher, or to everyone? (I'd vote for the teacher - it's
> really a classroom context feature, unnecessary while the Learner is
> enjoying her computer outside school hours). Could a Learner achieving
> an Activity milestone show that right away, in such a way the teacher
> could see it? Or notice it if the Learner achieved it outside school
> hours?
>
> In 1968, when I was six, I wrote a little 4-line poem about the
> astronauts going up into orbit. My first-grade teacher, Mrs. Menzi,
> typed it up and put a gold star sticker on it, and a gold star sticker
> on my forehead too. Like a star in outer space! I'm still proud of
> that :D  So yes, I think an award system could be a useful feature.
>
> Sean
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 9:50 PM, David Van Assche
> wrote:
> > Yeah, due to the lack of resources and time, we didn't get to finalise
> the
> > end vision for such an award based system, but the idea came to me due
> how
> > successful the collection of these is in computer games. As Gary pointed
> out
> > to me, there are even games where the sole purpose is to unlock awards
> > (which could be as silly as, dying by drowning 42 times.) The concept in
> > gaming, as adopted by nintendo, sony, and Microsoft, has been a real
> success
> > and a means by which to get users 'hooked' to achieving them. If the same
> > thing can be translated to Sugar, we can have a system which by its
> nature
> > pushes users to delve deep into the guts of activities to 'discover'
> them,
> > if you will, all the while getting recognition for that discovery. The
> > coupling of this with co

Re: [Sugar-devel] [math4] Activity Awards, Activity Alerts, Frame Alerts

[David Van Assche]

Yeah, due to the lack of resources and time, we didn't get to finalise the
end vision for such an award based system, but the idea came to me due how
successful the collection of these is in computer games. As Gary pointed out
to me, there are even games where the sole purpose is to unlock awards
(which could be as silly as, dying by drowning 42 times.) The concept in
gaming, as adopted by nintendo, sony, and Microsoft, has been a real success
and a means by which to get users 'hooked' to achieving them. If the same
thing can be translated to Sugar, we can have a system which by its nature
pushes users to delve deep into the guts of activities to 'discover' them,
if you will, all the while getting recognition for that discovery. The
coupling of this with collaboration brings together a whole world of
possibilities, many of which have caused measurable excitement within myself
and Gary, as well as others listening/discussing the ideas.

The inital activity we wanted to do this with was a quiz based activity,
where the teacher puts labels on the different parts of a picture s/he has
uploaded and lets the user then fill in the labels. We can measure a whole
host of things, such as, were the labels filled in while connected to the
internet (they could have used wikipedia to gather the information), and
should the user be encouraged to do that or not...

What I guess I'm pointing out is, we need to delve deep into how this should
all work, but the initial concept rocks, and we should try and either adapt
an existing activity (Gary suggested using his moon activity to name the
various parts of it) or make an easy framwork that would allow a teacher to
upload a picture and then tag the various points in the picture together
with the possible answers. Either is fine, though the later is more
desirable as it would allow us to explore the possibilities a little more
deeply, and would allow for the immediate creation of content there for,
which could be easily stored in moodle or an activity meta bundle, or
whatever... So lets decide how we move forwards on this and get to it
then...

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Gary C Martin  wrote:

> Hi Frederick,
>
> On 6 Jun 2009, at 00:30, Frederick Grose wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Gary C Martin 
> > wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > FWIW, David Van Assche raised some interesting Activity ideas at
> > SugarCamp Paris and I'm interested/active in getting us to at lease
> > 'demo' state in the Sugar 0.86 release timeframe. The idea is to focus
> > on an 'awards' mechanism/style to encourage exploration and provide
> > (sometimes) unexpected rewards. Idea is that Activity authors can
> > define a range of badges/medals/icons for certain behaviours/
> > accomplishment in an attempt to get students to dig deeper (mix of
> > 'easter eggs' and specific goals). It's mainly Activity side work (a
> > demo activity to start with) but perhaps could find a home in the
> > Journal (through an ability of Activity to set some private entry tag
> > and for Journal to display that in a user appealing graphical form).
> >
> > Even for something as hard to measure as the Write Activity, there
> > could be 'awards' (hidden or hinted at) for things like "found 10 or
> > more collaborators for one document", "gained at least 100 words each
> > from 5 or more collaborators", "wrote more than 1,000 words", "you
> > used the word entomology!". The idea is many would be hidden
> > ("surprise, you did something cool!") and that some initial more
> > obvious and visible 'awards' would hint that others were there for
> > discovery.
> >
> > Regards,
> > --Gary
> >
> > P.S. Mechanisms for 'awards' could hook into services like Moodle, the
> > Journal, or via collaboration (so perhaps a shared Write session would
> > show awards gained by the collaborators). Having a view to show all
> > Activity Awards would also be a good driver (could be an activity, or
> > ideally at some point part of Journal). The general idea for awards
> > drifts in from the gaming environment, where awards are used to
> > increase re-playability and tempt folks to try some other possible
> > path.
> > ...
> >
> > Nice concept.
> >
> > Some design and code integration with Activity Alerts,
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Almanac/sugar.graphics.alert
> > ,
> > and Frame alerts,
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Frame#12
> > , http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Frame#13, etc.
> > may be appropriate.
>
> 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal activity release 101 not tagged in Git

[David Van Assche]

Maybe if you list some of the problems you are running into, we can help, as
we must have gone through the same issues in order to get it working under
openSUSE, Mandriva, et al.

kind regards,
David (nubae)

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 04:52:08PM +0200, David Van Assche wrote:
> >And though packaging debian is quite different from doing rpms, I just
> >finished getting all activities working for openSUSE. There were lots
> >of little glitches that prevented activities from working,so if u run
> >into any issues with particular activities, ping me and I might be able
> >to tell u how to get stuff working. Activities like infoslicer, colors,
> >browse, record, and Maze come to mind... Generally I've been working
> >directly off the latest source in gitorious unless there was a required
> >downgrade to another source (storybuilder)...
>
> Thanks.
>
> Not sure if you know, but I have been packaging for some time (since
> Sugar 0.81) and Sugar 0.82 worked correctly.
>
> Also, the current trouble is with core Sugar environment, not
> activities.
>
> That said, I certainly appreciate the offer, and generally I like the
> growth in teams attacking the Sugar code from different angles.  That
> really helps improve code quality for all of us. :-D
>
>
>  - Jonas
>
> - --
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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>
> iEYEAREDAAYFAkoqjf4ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLg41ACeLapB6MhAX4GK2TuJpS7rz5Sb
> NkAAn2PmymU7T3ZiOe8IV9TmEjTm1fAy
> =OSXG
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal activity release 101 not tagged in Git

[David Van Assche]

And though packaging debian is quite different from doing rpms, I just
finished getting all activities working for openSUSE. There were lots of
little glitches that prevented activities from working,so if u run into any
issues with particular activities, ping me and I might be able to tell u how
to get stuff working. Activities like infoslicer, colors, browse, record,
and Maze come to mind... Generally I've been working directly off the latest
source in gitorious unless there was a required downgrade to another source
(storybuilder)...

kind Regards,
David (nubae)

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 10:16:29AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
> >On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 00:19, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> >> On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 04:37:32PM -0400, Frederick Grose wrote:
> >>>You are already on it by virtue of your work and contributions.
> >>> Please edit http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Packaging_Team and its
> >>>pending links/subpages as appropriate.
> >>
> >> Ok.  I'll look into that.  Later - I am on my way to bed now (spent
> >> all of last night finalizing a major ghostscript packaging update).
> >>
> >>
> >>>Thank you for contributing so much already! --Fred
> >>
> >> Ah, well - my work is just silently absorbed by Ubuntu, and the core
> >> 0.84 packages that I finally got packaged last week does not work at
> >> all.  Segmentation fault somewhere initially if using Xephyr, and if
> >> cheating and first running sugar non-emulated (just to create the
> >> initial account), activities won't start - no debug log messages, no
> >> nothing.
> >
> >I'm going to be offline the weekend, but we can look at these issues
> >together next week.
>
> That'd be awesome.  Ping me when you are ready.
>
>
>  - Jonas
>
> - --
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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>
> iEYEAREDAAYFAkoqK2sACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgXHwCbB3HYWoh8f0Z/fMITxEkHkwCk
> g7kAn10W91Ha+sNZB1Cqd+KCGkGFS/Ew
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] collaboration testing session

[David Van Assche]

Yeah as stated, we will use the default jabber server which is the solutions
grove one I guess... or are u talking about another one?

David

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 4:38 PM, David Farning wrote:

> David,
>
> Can you try to use the Solutions Groovy jabber server?  Caroline and
> Dave are putting some very helpful resources behind cleaning up the
> server.
>
> david(The other one)
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Caroline Meeks
> wrote:
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Will you be using the server hosted by Solution Grove/Zill?  We would be
> > very happy if you did.
> >
> > We have seen mysterious spikes in resource usage that is not correlated
> to
> > the number of users connected.  I am suspicious that some of the
> activities
> > use too many resources when they are shared.  I'd like to set it up so
> that
> > someone on your team has access to what is going on on the server so you
> can
> > try to correlate any spikes to specific activities.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caroline
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 12:09 AM, David Van Assche 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi folks,
> >>We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week
> Wednesday
> >> 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST,
> and
> >> 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)
> >>
> >> So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really
> want
> >> to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite
> >> obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions,
> and
> >> will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more
> >> collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-)
> >>
> >> We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE
> >> sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods
> (virtual
> >> appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS,
> openSUSE
> >> sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are
> compatible
> >> with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only...
> Please
> >> post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many
> will
> >> be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a
> volunteer to
> >> store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc
> session
> >> too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between
> 1
> >> and 2 hours...
> >>
> >> Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
> >> them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
> >> abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
> >> whether/how we can make them collaborative:
> >>
> >> sugar-finance
> >> sugar-flipsticks-activity
> >> sugar-freecell
> >> sugar-imageviewer
> >> sugar-implode
> >> sugar-infoslicer
> >> sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
> >> sugar-joke-machine-activity
> >> sugar-jukebox
> >> sugar-labyrinth
> >> sugar-maze
> >> sugar-memorize
> >> sugar-moon
> >> sugar-paint-activity
> >> sugar-pippy
> >> sugar-playgo
> >> sugar-read
> >> sugar-readetexts-activity
> >> sugar-record
> >> sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
> >> sugar-speak
> >> sugar-storybuilder
> >> sugar-tamtam-common
> >> sugar-tamtam-edit
> >> sugar-tamtam-jam
> >> sugar-tamtam-mini
> >> sugar-tamtam-synthlab
> >> sugar-analyze
> >> sugar-turtleart
> >> sugar-typing-turtle
> >> sugar-viewslides
> >> sugar-write
> >> sugar-browse
> >> sugar-irc
> >> sugar-calculate
> >> sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
> >> sugar-cartoonbuilder
> >> sugar-clock
> >> sugar-colors
> >> sugar-connect
> >> sugar-drgeo-activity
> >> xoEditor
> >> sugar-evince
> >> sugar-fiftytwo
> >> sugar-chat
> >> sugar-terminal
> >> sugar-journal
> >> sugar-physics
> >> sugar-library
> >> sugar-poll
> >> sugar-tuxpaint
> >>
> >> kind Regards,
> >> David (nubae) Van Assche
> >> www.nubae.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Caroline Meeks
> > Solution Grove
> > carol...@solutiongrove.com
> >
> > 617-500-3488 - Office
> > 505-213-3268 - Fax
> >
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] collaboration testing session

[David Van Assche]

Ok, etoys included too..

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

>
> On 05.06.2009, at 06:09, David Van Assche wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week Wednesday
> 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and
> 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)
>
> So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want
> to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite
> obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and
> will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more
> collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-)
>
> We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE
> sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual
> appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE
> sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible
> with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... Please
> post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will
> be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to
>
> store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session
> too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1
> and 2 hours...
>
> Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
> them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
> abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
> whether/how we can make them collaborative:
>
>
> What's the reason you exclude Etoys, which does support collaboration?
>
> - Bert -
>
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] collaboration testing session

[David Van Assche]

Well as we just discussed in irc, some activities will actually share and
allow for collaboration, but the vast majority do not and/or dont work
between different distribution methods. In any case we can certainly try
some out and send you the log files to dissect, in case u cannot make it.

kind regards,
David (nubae)

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 06:09, David Van Assche
> wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week
> Wednesday
> > 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST,
> and
> > 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)
> >
> > So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want
> to
> > see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite
> obvious.
> > We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will
> > suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more
> collaborative,
> > or may need less of it (who knows :-)
> >
> > We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE
> > sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual
> > appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS,
> openSUSE
> > sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are
> compatible
> > with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only...
>
> What do you mean by "compatible for collaboration" and why do you
> think it won't work between 0.82 and 0.84?
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > Please
> > post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many
> will
> > be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer
> to
> > store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session
> > too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between
> 1
> > and 2 hours...
> >
> > Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
> > them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
> > abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
> > whether/how we can make them collaborative:
> >
> > sugar-finance
> > sugar-flipsticks-activity
> > sugar-freecell
> > sugar-imageviewer
> > sugar-implode
> > sugar-infoslicer
> > sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
> > sugar-joke-machine-activity
> > sugar-jukebox
> > sugar-labyrinth
> > sugar-maze
> > sugar-memorize
> > sugar-moon
> > sugar-paint-activity
> > sugar-pippy
> > sugar-playgo
> > sugar-read
> > sugar-readetexts-activity
> > sugar-record
> > sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
> > sugar-speak
> > sugar-storybuilder
> > sugar-tamtam-common
> > sugar-tamtam-edit
> > sugar-tamtam-jam
> > sugar-tamtam-mini
> > sugar-tamtam-synthlab
> > sugar-analyze
> > sugar-turtleart
> > sugar-typing-turtle
> > sugar-viewslides
> > sugar-write
> > sugar-browse
> > sugar-irc
> > sugar-calculate
> > sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
> > sugar-cartoonbuilder
> > sugar-clock
> > sugar-colors
> > sugar-connect
> > sugar-drgeo-activity
> > xoEditor
> > sugar-evince
> > sugar-fiftytwo
> > sugar-chat
> > sugar-terminal
> > sugar-journal
> > sugar-physics
> > sugar-library
> > sugar-poll
> > sugar-tuxpaint
> >
> > kind Regards,
> > David (nubae) Van Assche
> > www.nubae.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
>
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[Sugar-devel] collaboration testing session

[David Van Assche]

Hi folks,
   We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week Wednesday
10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and
12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)

So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want to
see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite obvious.
We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will
suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more collaborative,
or may need less of it (who knows :-)

We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE
sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual
appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE
sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible
with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... Please
post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will
be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to

store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session
too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1
and 2 hours...

Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
whether/how we can make them collaborative:

sugar-finance
sugar-flipsticks-activity
sugar-freecell
sugar-imageviewer
sugar-implode
sugar-infoslicer
sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
sugar-joke-machine-activity
sugar-jukebox
sugar-labyrinth
sugar-maze
sugar-memorize
sugar-moon
sugar-paint-activity
sugar-pippy
sugar-playgo
sugar-read
sugar-readetexts-activity
sugar-record
sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
sugar-speak
sugar-storybuilder
sugar-tamtam-common
sugar-tamtam-edit
sugar-tamtam-jam
sugar-tamtam-mini
sugar-tamtam-synthlab
sugar-analyze
sugar-turtleart
sugar-typing-turtle
sugar-viewslides
sugar-write
sugar-browse
sugar-irc
sugar-calculate
sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
sugar-cartoonbuilder
sugar-clock
sugar-colors
sugar-connect
sugar-drgeo-activity
xoEditor
sugar-evince
sugar-fiftytwo
sugar-chat
sugar-terminal
sugar-journal
sugar-physics
sugar-library
sugar-poll
sugar-tuxpaint

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche
www.nubae.com
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[Sugar-devel] Sugar on suse and virtualised appliances to cheat network connectivity

[David Van Assche]

So, this Sunday marks a special day for us openSUSE folks, as we've now
managed to get pretty much every activity behaving, including the underlying
journaling and collaboration. We've got more than 50 activities packaged and
included in the live cd/usb/dvd/virtual appliance. By using the incredible
flexibility and power that oBS gives us, with just 2 people working on this
project, we've managed move forwards fast and efficiently. So we are proud
to announce that you can download the latest releases here:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/images/

As you can see, the main directory contains .vmdk virtual appliances which
have been tested to run on both Vitualbox (Sun's free virtual container
system) as well as vmware and its host of virtualisation software.
Advantages to running an appliance include bypassing wireless/wired network
card drivers as the host can really be running pretty much anything from OSX
to Windows. This will also be a way to get Sugar running on any Mac
regardless, and pretty much and hardware. Its also a good way to run sugar
on ed/ubuntu and debian based systems. Though a tad slower than on a native
system (running without virtualisation), the advantages clearly outweigh the
disadvantages. In the iso subdirectory you can find pure sugar or the full
openSUSE-edu suite, containing a good 2.4 gigs of educational material
including an icon to launch sugar directly from the desktop, a live LTSP
system, iTalc, and a host of other interesting software. For more
information on virtualisation, vmware, virtualbox and how to get sugar
working within these environments have a look here:
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VMware

Currently the only application not running is Read, which requires some
updated GDK stuff from gnome 2.26, which is currently not entirely working
with Sugar on openSUSE, but within the next weeks we should be able to
resolve this. We are searching for more activities to include, as well as,
seeing what we can do artistically at the different stages such as booting
up, session manager, etc. Currently we automatically get the system to join
the sugarlabs ejabberd server for collaboration, and after testing quite a
few applications we can confidently say this works quite well. So its nice
to see openSUSE being one of the more advanced Sugar environments now...
seeing as a couple of weeks ago we had a very broken environment

kind Regards,
David Van Assche
www.nubae.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SoaS] Request for Artwork: Boot Screen

[David Van Assche]

Yeah, this is also something that is relevant and usable across distros, so
lets try and make it distro agnostic

David

On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Sean DALY  wrote:

> Well, I'd like to do a mockup of my idea (tonight), post it to the
> wiki under Gary's, and have feedback from the Design Team about both
>
> The splash/progress page is a key moment of a Learner's interaction
> with Sugar, let's explore its possibilities before finalizing it
>
> thanks
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Sebastian Dziallas 
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > this is just great - thanks a lot for working on it so quickly! :)
> >
> > It looks really promising! Let me know if you want me to grab the .png
> files
> > from somewhere to build a test package...
> >
> > --Sebastian
> >
> > Sean DALY wrote:
> >>
> >> wow Gary you were up all night on that
> >>
> >> Yes by all means back on list
> >>
> >> I really like the logo cycling through our colors, it's a "golden
> >> rule" of marketing to not change logo colors and we break it with
> >> panache (each press release PDF has a different color theme too)
> >>
> >> i want to mock up with kid avatars around Activity icons
> >>
> >> I build animated GIFs the old-fashioned imagemagick way:
> >> $ convert -delay 20 progress-*.png animation.gif
> >>
> >> I'll upload something today thanks
> >>
> >> Sean
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Gary C Martin
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Folks,
> >>>
> >>> Just to get a basic, safe, default starting point in there, I've
> uploaded
> >>> one simple treatment to:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Boot_Logo#Sugar_Boot_Logo_Animations
> >>>
> >>> Will try to upload a couple more tomorrow.
> >>>
> >>> Night,
> >>> --Gary
> >>>
> >>> P.S. Should pull this back on list, your call Sean, but probably worth
> >>> getting a couple more ideas up so that folks can input to some
> >>> alternative
> >>> treatments.
> >>>
> >>> On 30 May 2009, at 00:58, Sean DALY wrote:
> >>>
>  Christian, Eben
> 
>  I'm not sure if you are on sugar-devel but this is I think an
>  outstanding opportunity for Sugar branding, "celebrating" Sugar
>  interface.iconography and greeting children.
> 
>  I know nothing about the plymouth boot animator, but i deduce that
>  consecutively named files will do the trick
> 
>  I'm willing to attack this but before I try scraping screenshots, do
>  you guys have any interface assets i could grab?
> 
>  Input greatly appreciated
> 
>  thanks
> 
>  Sean
> 
> 
> 
>  On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Sean DALY
>  wrote:
> >
> > Maybe we could work on it together?
> >
> > here's my idea like my booth rollup banner mockup which Christian
> > 7 Eben both liked, I want to stay as much as possible within the
> Sugar
> > HIG and iconography.
> >
> >
> > boot should start with our logo ... smaller than in the previous SoaS
> > ... (not sure yet if should be with or without "labs")
> >
> > The ring is iconic ... I want to keep a ring at boot... but instead
> of
> > dots, I want XO avatars - kids!
> >
> > In the middle... each succeeding image with a colored Activity
> icon...
> > matched to the corresponding XO avatar appearing in the ring. So kids
> > understand that Activities are for them.
> >
> > And ending with... kids around the Journal!
> >
> > Alternate idea: cycling through the 12 logo color combos?
> >
> > Not mutually exclusive... logo could be on the bottom of ring
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > P.S. I've actually done something similar with a titling sequence for
> > a short film. I started with the final image and wiped elements,
> > backing down to the first image
> >
> > I use imagemagick a lot no problem to create a script which could
> > inject arbitrary text into a ppm file
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Gary C Martin >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Sean,
> >> FYI, this came in off list.
> >> Regards,
> >> --G
> >>
> >> Begin forwarded message:
> >>
> >> From: James Zaki
> >> Date: 29 May 2009 22:24:06 BST
> >> To: Gary C Martin
> >> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Request for Artwork: Boot Screen
> >> I'm in touch with a design company who owes me a favour or two.
> >>
> >> I could get them to whip up some concept designs for inspiration?
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >>
> >> 2009/5/29 Gary C Martin
> >>>
> >>> On 29 May 2009, at 21:37, Sean DALY wrote:
> >>>
>  Sebastian, Gary
> 
>  I'd like to take a stab at it, I've actually had an idea brewing
> for
>  awhile
> >>>
> >>> Cool, shout if you need extra hands/review.
> >>>
> >>> --G

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] classroom presenter, iTalc for sugar (possible ports for LinuxTag Berlin showoff)

[David Van Assche]

Hi,
  Caroline, that is exactly how iTalc works. The teacher can pass on the
session to one or groups of students, so it becomes a great way for everyone
to join in. If you are going to be at LinuxTag, I can do a quick demo so u
can see how this would work in a real teaching environment. I have also been
testing the wiimote whiteboard solution, which is truly outstanding. The
solution works better than I had projected (no pun intended) and though I
have not been able to run it inside Sugar yet, Classroom Presenter is a
great tool for this. Basically its like having a really big touchpad on the
projection screen, and up to 4 people can use the infra red pens at once.
Again, this allows for some pretty neat collaborative abilities. Tony
Anderson is working on the next version of Classroom presenter which should
also be able to read out slides. He will be at LinuxTag, and hopefully we
can put together some kind of demonstration of how the wiimote works with
it. Same goes for iTalc and LTSP. So its all looking good... The wiimote
whiteboard software runs on Linux, Windows and Mac (more info here:
http://www.uweschmidt.org/wiimote-whiteboard) with up to 2 concurrent pens,
smoothing callibration (how straight a line u can draw) and basically turns
an infra red pen into a mouse pointer. By using single click and double
click u can pretty much control the computer from the projector screen,
including doing really neat stuff in gimp, sugar-paint, inkscape, and
classroom presenter. Even things like google earth being controlled this way
is very very cool. The cost of all the necessary items is under 50 euros, so
this is truly an amazing solution that can be adopted in 3rd world countries
too. For the same functionality, you'd normally be paying thousands of
euros, and the stuff would still require extra licenses, etc. All the
software to run this is free, and I hope we can get some more testing done
in this area at LinuxTag, including a moodle tutorial, and how/where to get
the software.

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote:

> +1 on the importance of iTalc like functionality.  If that is something
> Windows/Apple can do and Sugar  can't its going to hurt adoption.
>
> It would be cool if students could also become the presenters so the
> teacher could ask a student in the room to explain how a problem was done
> and pass control over to that student for a while.
>
> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:17 AM, David Van Assche wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>At LinuxTag Berlin, there are 3 areas that are of particular interest
>> to me, and might be considered novelties in the way sugar can/will be
>> presented there. From one side, I will be representing sugar packaging on
>> the openSUSE platform, and being part of the opensuse-edu team, we will show
>> off not only the live suse sugar cd/usb stick, but also the tight
>> integration (including desktop launch icon) of sugar within the openSUSE
>> 11.1 educational spin. Since kiwi-ltsp (A mature variant of LTSP 5) is quite
>> integrated in the educational desktop, as is ejabberd, we will show off LTSP
>> sugarised, with the approximately 50 sugar activities that have been
>> packaged for openSUSE. Within the LTSP framework, we often use an
>> application called iTalc, which allows for the remote administration (vnc on
>> steroids) of desktop sessions, locking of sessions, passing around of
>> sessions (for the classroom environment) as well as, intra station messaging
>> (in case a particular station needs administrative help/training/support.)
>> Right now, it runs great on the administrator machine, which doesn't need to
>> and won't run Sugar. Basically from this view one can see screenshots of
>> each desktop and by clicking on the desktop in question, one takes over or
>> shares that session with that particular sugar user. There is more
>> explanation and screenshots here: http://italc.sourceforge.net/
>> On the client side, it would be nice for someone to study how hard it
>> would be to port to sugar. Its not massively important since it runs from
>> gnome, but for scenarios where sugar is the only Desktop Environment, it
>> would be nice to have this kind of controlling mechanism for the
>> teacher/admin. For example, the teacher could collaboratively work on one
>> session connected to a projector, and pass that session on friom student to
>> student, with each of them carrying out some task. I have seen it used this
>> way under Gnome with great success, and as Sugar is collaborative by nature,
>> it seems like a perfect fit. So any sugar porting takers?
>>
>> On another note, I have successfully tested the home made whiteboard
>> option using a wiimote and infra red pens. This approach allows for the
>> building o

[Sugar-devel] classroom presenter, iTalc for sugar (possible ports for LinuxTag Berlin showoff)

[David Van Assche]

Hi,
   At LinuxTag Berlin, there are 3 areas that are of particular interest to
me, and might be considered novelties in the way sugar can/will be presented
there. From one side, I will be representing sugar packaging on the openSUSE
platform, and being part of the opensuse-edu team, we will show off not only
the live suse sugar cd/usb stick, but also the tight integration (including
desktop launch icon) of sugar within the openSUSE 11.1 educational spin.
Since kiwi-ltsp (A mature variant of LTSP 5) is quite integrated in the
educational desktop, as is ejabberd, we will show off LTSP sugarised, with
the approximately 50 sugar activities that have been packaged for openSUSE.
Within the LTSP framework, we often use an application called iTalc, which
allows for the remote administration (vnc on steroids) of desktop sessions,
locking of sessions, passing around of sessions (for the classroom
environment) as well as, intra station messaging (in case a particular
station needs administrative help/training/support.) Right now, it runs
great on the administrator machine, which doesn't need to and won't run
Sugar. Basically from this view one can see screenshots of each desktop and
by clicking on the desktop in question, one takes over or shares that
session with that particular sugar user. There is more explanation and
screenshots here: http://italc.sourceforge.net/
On the client side, it would be nice for someone to study how hard it would
be to port to sugar. Its not massively important since it runs from gnome,
but for scenarios where sugar is the only Desktop Environment, it would be
nice to have this kind of controlling mechanism for the teacher/admin. For
example, the teacher could collaboratively work on one session connected to
a projector, and pass that session on friom student to student, with each of
them carrying out some task. I have seen it used this way under Gnome with
great success, and as Sugar is collaborative by nature, it seems like a
perfect fit. So any sugar porting takers?

On another note, I have successfully tested the home made whiteboard option
using a wiimote and infra red pens. This approach allows for the building of
an interactive whiteboard for under 50 euros. Unfortunately, the best
software to use for something like this is classroom presenter, originally
windows software allowing one to open a powerpoint/impress presenation and
then draw upon that using the infra red pen. Classroom presenter was ported
to sugar at one point. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Classroom_Presenter , but
I'm not sure about its current status, only that it doesn't currently work.
Again, it would be nice to fix this activity so we can show it off at
LinuxTag and show people how to create a cheap sugarised interactive
whiteboard for under 50 euros. If someone is interested in getting this
activity working again for Sugar, that would be great.

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche
www.nubae.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Usage scenarios for Sugar?

[David Van Assche]

Where is the source? I dont see anything since march in git.sugarlabs.org

David (nubae)

On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 6:32 PM, James Simmons wrote:

> Sean,
>
> I'm blowing my own horn here, but I just finished a new version of Read
> Etexts that might be worth a look.  The new version has a "Books" tab
> that lets you search the Project Gutenberg offline catalog and download
> titles to the Journal.  Gutenberg has lots of Juvenile books as well as
> well known books by European authors in their original languages.  I
> posted it on ASLO yesterday, with new screenshots.
>
> In addition to the catalog search, if you run it on SoaS you can use the
> Speech tab to read the book aloud with word highlighting.  Many
> different voices are available, so for instance you could use a French
> voice for the works of Dumas and Verne.
>
> The books are plain text, no pictures, but if I say so myself Read
> Etexts has become impressive in a way it never has been before.
>
> For books with pictures you could suggest a visit to the Internet
> Archive website to get books in PDF format that Read could use.  There
> are some remarkable PDFs of scanned in book pages there.
>
> James Simmons
>
> > Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 20:03:40 +0200
> > From: Sean DALY 
> > Subject: [Sugar-devel] Usage scenarios for Sugar?
> > To: Sugar Labs Marketing , iaep
> >   , Sugar Devel
> >   
> > Message-ID:
> >   <378b2b050905221103p1f5dbb29s935bc0b0c8543...@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Hi everyone, we have been contacted by a monthly tech publication in
> > Europe willing to devote several pages to Sugar in their summer issue!
> >
> > More specifically, advising parents how to download & run SoaS and do
> > educational stuff with their kids during the summer holidays.
> >
> >
> > Off the top of my head I suggested a scenario where Memorize is
> > customized with family photos, a Turtle Art lesson, ...
> >
> > Suggestions please!
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Sean
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Help to Find the PO file of Some Activities to able me to Translate Them

[David Van Assche]

Well the main thing here is about demoing... I've taken it upon myself to
package about 50 activities... including fructose and glucose... now... we
have things like flash which isnt an xo bundle, though many people believe
it could/should be, and that would/should be considered a honey app, but it
must be installed via rpm Really the only process required with the new
jhconvert alexey has been working on is upload to git, then jhconvert
creates the packages for the all the distros, including the .xo bundles...
so really we want to make it as easy as authors not having to worry about
packaging at all... just about uploading their latest source to
git.sugarlabs.org, the only place the source really needs to be... we can
automate the rest... but your process is currently the only sane thing I've
seen written up and it'd be a shame to loose it in the anals of archived
emails... so better wiki than nothing, no?

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Gary C Martin  wrote:

> On 25 May 2009, at 12:33, David Van Assche wrote:
>
>  Super... that methodology should be written up some place as its a great
>> guide to follow...
>>
>
> I'd much rather try and find some agreement to cut un-necessary steps,
> rather than to wikify/formalise it and push every unfortunate Activity
> author through the same sausage factory! :-)
>
> /me puts on tinfoil hat and asbestos socks
>
> I've still not heard a good argument for why Activity authors currently
> need to create two bundles with identical source content (one .xo zip and
> one .bz2), upload them to two different locations, and document them in
> several different places. It's really easy to get out of sync. I'm also
> still not convinced about the sanity of distros needing to package up each
> individual Activity (other than perhaps sucrose as one collection). If, for
> a moment, you think of Sugar as a Firefox, and Activities as Addons, does
> each distro really consider packaging up every Addon kicking about for
> Firefox? Once a Sugar release and its platform dependancies are yum,
> aptitude, or whatever installed; the Sugar UI should then be the one to
> add/update additional Activities (via Browse as currently, or via a future
> update control panel checking with activity.sugarlabs.org).
>
> Regards,
> --Gary
>
>
>  David
>>
>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Gary C Martin 
>> wrote:
>> Hi David,
>>
>>
>> On 24 May 2009, at 11:47, David Van Assche wrote:
>>
>> Overall it would be nice if we had an activitiy matrix that showed the
>> stages of projects.
>>
>> The Activity Team have been making contact with past authors, slowly,
>> slowly we're moving along even if it means adopting extra activities
>> ourselves:
>>
>>
>>   http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/Activity_Status
>>
>> The best thing folks can do If they have a favourite activity that is not
>> yet migrated to Sugar Labs infrastructure is make some noise about it. Email
>> the IAEP and/or sugar-devel and advocate or ask about it, email the
>> author/s, see if they are still working on it or have future plans. Many
>> activity developers seem to think no one is interested/using their work and
>> often seem pleasantly surprised when they get an email about their past
>> efforts.
>>
>>
>> This would be helpful to show what people could work on to. Something
>> like, name of activity on one side, and on the other stage (planning,
>> pre-source, alpha, beta, rc, release, packaged, xo bundled, translated)
>> Something along those lines, but I'm sure someone can come up with a better
>> matrix. If this was up at some place, we could know pretty quickly what
>> people could be working on. It could even be split by distro too... The idea
>> came to me because there are a ton of git projects with no code in them.
>>
>> If there are git projects with no code in them, what makes you think the
>> developer will edit another page somewhere else with project status
>> information! ;-b
>>
>> With my activity developer hat on, I do find it a pain how many seemingly
>> random places there are to work on when releasing a new version, even more
>> for a new project, or migrated one. My check-list/todo-list is something
>> like:
>>
>> If it's a new project:
>>
>> - Create a Gitorious project repository for it http://git.sugarlabs.org/ and
>> start hacking on your code
>>
>> - Request a trac component for you activity at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/
>>
>> - Open a trac ticket to request addition to Pootle (if your
>> strings/releas

Re: [Sugar-devel] Simplifying sugar-jhbuild

[David Van Assche]

I can only speak of opensuse and mandriva but we compile xulrunner ourselves
on those 2 plaftorms...

David (nubae)

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Edward Cherlin  wrote:

> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Tomeu Vizoso 
> wrote:
>
> > As with any other sugar module, people want to run the latest code
> > because it will contain bugfixes, etc. I see hulahop in the same way.
>
> As with any other module of anything, some people want to run Stable,
> some want Testing, some want Unstable, the very latest code. (I am
> using Debian terminology, but the concepts apply anywhere.) I am
> willing to use Testing, but not Unstable. I want an option to build
> something that is known to compile, with a mechanism in place to
> determine when we move forward to another level, and to enforce
> periodic bug-triage and bug-fixing when we need to make that move. We
> owe this to our development community.
> --
> Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> And Children are my nation.
> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sharing to Groups

[David Van Assche]

well the post has been made here:
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=123793

hopefully we can get some feedback and its some help to Martin when
he's at the moots

kind regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Sameer Verma  wrote:
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 6:30 AM, David Van Assche  
> wrote:
>> ah great, would be nice to be able to take care of everything, but
>> think we have enough work on our hands, if we could get some other
>> people on board that are experienced moodle admins, that would be
>> great. thanks Martin... pasteing an invitation for help now to
>> forum...
>>
>> kind regards,
>> David (Nubae) Van Assche
>>
>
> Putting up some "starter courses" on Moodle would be great. I was
> going to test out our XS installs with some of my own courses from
> SFSU (we use moodle, but my course have no material relevance to
> Sugar/OLPC) but I'd rather use something more relevant. If we can set
> up courses on a central site, that would be great. That way, I can
> backup on the site and restore on the XS and go from there.
>
> Sameer
> --
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Martin Langhoff
>>  wrote:
>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 1:53 PM, David Van Assche  
>>> wrote:
>>>> Talking about moodle, we really should decide what to enable on the
>>>
>>> Not only stop scaring people, but provide content about Sugar + sample
>>> content for deployments, so there's a reason to use it. (How to
>>> complement the wiki and avoid overlaps is an area to think about.)
>>>
>>> My suggestion: post something in the comparisons & advocacy forum,
>>> asking for help from experienced moodle hands ;-) If you post there,
>>> I'll show that post in my presentation next wednesday at the Amsterdam
>>> moot...
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>> m
>>> --
>>>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>>>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>>>  - ask interesting questions
>>>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>>>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Marketing] personal marketing (bottum up approach)

[David Van Assche]

me too, shall we take a practical approach and suggest some locations?

David (nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Marten Vijn  wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 16:46 +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
>> On 05/19/09 13:51, Walter Bender wrote:
>> > Maybe we can find a time in the next few days to all meet on IRC to
>> > discuss this? CC'ng Bernie as he is most familiar with the SL
>> > infrastructure.
>
>> Unfortunately, both the main download site and the mirror are located in
>> Boston, so they're both going to be slow for people on the other side of
>> the world.
>
> oke, I 'll am going to look European mirrors
>
> Marten
>
>
> --
> http://martenvijn.nl                 Marten Vijn
> http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas  Sugar on a Stick
> http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek/         The Network Event Kit
> http://har2009.org                   13th-16th August
> http://opencommunitycamp.org         26th Jul - 2nd August
>
> ___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sharing to Groups

[David Van Assche]

ah great, would be nice to be able to take care of everything, but
think we have enough work on our hands, if we could get some other
people on board that are experienced moodle admins, that would be
great. thanks Martin... pasteing an invitation for help now to
forum...

kind regards,
David (Nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Martin Langhoff
 wrote:
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 1:53 PM, David Van Assche  
> wrote:
>> Talking about moodle, we really should decide what to enable on the
>
> Not only stop scaring people, but provide content about Sugar + sample
> content for deployments, so there's a reason to use it. (How to
> complement the wiki and avoid overlaps is an area to think about.)
>
> My suggestion: post something in the comparisons & advocacy forum,
> asking for help from experienced moodle hands ;-) If you post there,
> I'll show that post in my presentation next wednesday at the Amsterdam
> moot...
>
> cheers,
>
>
> m
> --
>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>  - ask interesting questions
>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sharing to Groups

[David Van Assche]

Talking about moodle, we really should decide what to enable on the
sugarlabs Moodle instance. Right now its everything, and like you
stated, most people get scared away, so I can see our Moodle instance
being used as a fancy forum, and not much more 8) I have admin access
there so in your opinion, what should I leave enabled so we can cut
the fat as it were...

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Martin Langhoff
 wrote:
> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 2:19 AM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira
>  wrote:
>> Martin Langhoff, are you around ?
>
> Sure. I recommend searching the list archive for
> de...@lists.laptop.org and server-de...@l.l.o for an excellent
> discussion on 'narratives' a while ago, and for 'group management
> moodle'. Try a few other related terms and I'm sure you'll find a ton
> of background.
>
> Generally a good idea to get familiar w moodle as I'm doing a lot of
> work to integrate the user experience between XO and Moodle.
>
> I just realised Moodle also has a 'webquest' module - it's in contrib
> (not part of the official version but easily installable). See
> http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=765 (you can 'login as guest'
> to avoid registration).
>
> cheers,
>
>
> m
> --
>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>  - ask interesting questions
>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] personal marketing (bottum up approach)

[David Van Assche]

I think that there is a kind of formal technical/distribution position
forming here. Ie... someone that would be responsible for supporting
distribution methods of sugar (this should not be confused with QA,
bugsquad or anything else) It just needs to be a person that can say
all the available methods of distribution, and perhaps working on
communication between distros and Sugar team... what do u guys think?
Marten or I are both capable of doing this job just fine, but it kind
of overlaps with the infrastructure team... we'd need to be sure like
Marten says we have access to a server to set up rsync, torrent
distribution and even our own build Service (openSUSE build service is
totally gpl ;-)   ) What should this position be called, I have no
idea, I came up with lateral distro architect, but I have no idea if
that is specific enough or even too generic.

What do u think? perhaps forming a team that me and marten can be
integrated with seams obvious for the time being. Both of us also want
to work towards centralised distribution methods that are push and not
just pull, whatever they might be. I'm forwarding this to sugar-devel
as well as this has to do with them too, and an olpc rep so that we
can make sure they know what we are doing with sugar distribution.

kind Regards,
David (Nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Marten Vijn  wrote:
> Thanks David,
>
> I will go for bandwith then asking for rsync as requirement.
> A torrend would optional.
>
> Some things I would like to assure mirrors have to:
> - have directory layout
> - same names
>
> Features I would also like to have
> - having a "Last_version" symlink to the last version.
>  (keep links valid over time)
> - md5sums
> - list of mirrors on the website
> - or better mirror autoselection
>
>
> Besides from getting bandwidth is there a way I can help to achieve
> this? (I guess ssh access would be needed)
>
> Kind regards,
> Marten
>
>
> On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 12:10 +0200, David Van Assche wrote:
>> One thing solution we use at openSUSE to get increcremental images,
>> ie... you have an older version of SOAS or sugar or whatever image,
>> but you want a newer one, well solution is to use rsync, but this
>> would need to be enabled by the host (ie wherever all this is being
>> hosted downloaded from [bernie, caroline?]):
>>
>> First check the latest image at:
>>
>> (This definetly works with openSUSE where sugar is completely
>> integrated, even with an icon on the desktop that takes you straight
>> into sugar from the desktop. The address for either SugarSuse or
>> openSUSE-edu is here:
>> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/images/iso/ )
>>
>> The Soas images (snapshots, ie latests sugar) are here as far as I can
>> tell: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/
>>
>> Copy old image with exactly same name as new image available:
>>
>> cp oldimage.iso exact-name-new-image-is.iso
>>
>> Run rsync again to patch it:
>>
>> rsync -avP 
>> rsync://mirror.leaseweb.com/opensuse/repositories/Education/images/iso/exact-name-new-image-is.iso
>> .
>>
>> Dot at the end with space before it is part of the command.
>>
>> This will download only the bytes that have changed, which in some
>> cases is just few MBs, saving few GBs of download.
>>
>> Obviously p2p is another good solution to get initial images going if
>> a couple of people choose to upload to linuxtracker.org or
>> something...
>>
>> kind Regards,
>> David (Nubae) Van Assche
>>
>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Marten Vijn  wrote:
>> > Dear All,
>> >
>> > In the last 24 hours I talked to 12 persons about Sugar.
>> >
>> > - 6 persons have downloaded sugar and said to give feedback on Sugar
>> >
>> > - I have send a request for testing to i-netw...@dgroups.org.
>> > This is one the main mailinglistings in Africa.
>> >
>> > My findings so far:
>> > 1. Asking people to help works. I ask can you help me. Can you download
>> > an iso, burn it to cd, boot it, and give you opinion an email?
>> > This is very effective in shifting from "talking about" to "doing".
>> >
>> > 2. The download seems to be slow.
>> >
>> > Possible sollution, shall I ask for bandwith to mirror the iso image?
>> > Can someone make familiar with an optimal solution
>> > (syncing/redirecting).
>> >
>> > kind regards,
>> > Marten
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> &g

[Sugar-devel] feedback from the Distro (autopackaging team) at Sugar Camp and recent meeting with key members taking on that task

[David Van Assche]

We had an IRC meeting yesterday (1 day after sugar camp!) to decide
how to move forward with the decisions taken at Sugar Camp in the area
of making packaging easier, performance better, testing easier, and
volunteer support and QA attraction a more realistic process and
approach. You can see the wiki entry discussed (ie. what was said at
Sugar Camp) here:

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Community/Distributions/OpenSUSE

Though it mentions openSUSE it is really distro agnostic, its just
that key members of the openSUSE team were at the IRC meeting to
discuss the synching of jhconvert with oBS (openSUSE build service) so
that we can totally automate the process from getting revisions of
glucose, fructose, and some honey directly to all distros and
platforms. That novelly (no pun intended) includes the ARM
architecture for Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, and openSUSE. You can check
the irc logs of what was discussed here if you have any interest:

http://en.opensuse.org/Sugar/Meetings

Other performance and testing automation includes better hardware for
buildbot and the revival of the sugarbot project (an auto testing bot
to some degree) though it was agreed at Sugar Camp that much more
manual performance and security testing must be done, since its
unrealistic to rely on automated tests only. Still, both Buildbot and
Sugarbot are intesesting concepts and should help the process of the
developers, triagers, and even QA people significantly.

What we're doing goes a little bit against the policies of many
distros, but remember we almost consider Sugar its own OS ;-) and
distribution maintainers of Sugar are free to take the dsitributed
source and build it all again if they really like. We are just making
sure that Sugar IS available everywhere for everyone, and that it is
not the distros deciding whether Sugar should be allowed in one
version or another. We just want the best Sugar out there available to
all. So distro maintainers of Sugar can either keep up with Sugar, or
probably have their users ousing Sugar repos elsewhere

I hope this doesn't start any rifts or flame wars, that was not my
intention. As stated above, its just to get the best Sugar out there
as quickly as possible to everyone in all formats

kind Regards,
David (Nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar on LTSP

[David Van Assche]

Due to the sad state of ubuntu sugar, I decided, along with cyberorg
to package sugar and quite big set of honey sugar activities (about 50
of them) on openSUSE. The main goal here was to make it work nicely
with LTSP. So far that is working quite well, and there is no reason
ejabberd won't work with that. It worked just fine with ubuntu
intrepid +ejabberd. There are still a couple of hurdles to overcome,
such as some activities now working, but we should have a fully
functional environment within the coming weeks. I'll keep the list
informed.

kind Regards,
David

On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Walter Bender  wrote:
> Sugar is compatible with LTSP systems. The folks at Resera have done
> good work in this space. However, the Ubuntu packaging of Sugar 0.84
> is a bit behind the great work being done by the Debian community.
>
> -walter
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Sameer Verma  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I had a conversation with our tech folks on campus yesterday, and
>> Sugar via LTSP (http://www.ltsp.org/) came up. The original discussion
>> was about LTSP and thin and fat clients, but this group is in the
>> College of Education, so the conversation drifted towards Sugar. We've
>>  talked about this before, but I'll poke the embers again. Is Sugar
>> usable via LTSP? Espcially the collaborative part via ejabberd?
>>
>> We plan on having a Jaunty-based showcase running in three weeks or
>> so. If Sugar is usable in that environment, we'll definitely push for
>> it in this lab. The lab is used by faculty and students from early
>> childhood ed. and other departments inb CoE. They'd love to bring in
>> teachers and children from local schools to showcase it.
>>
>> I'm cc'ing David Van Assche in case he's not on this list (highly
>> doubtful, though). I am currently using his fatclient script
>> (http://www.nubae.com/ltsp-linux-terminal-server-project-netbooted-fat-client-for-ubuntu-hardy-and-intrepid)
>> on Intrepid+GNOME.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Sameer
>> --
>> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>> Associate Professor of Information Systems
>> San Francisco State University
>> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
>> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
>> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>> ___
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>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] webified and google gears

[David Van Assche]

I cant seem to find my spec file anymore, but I based it on this:
<http://vpv.fedorapeople.org/packages/mozvoikko/mozvoikko.spec>

To briefly explain, the .xpi is basically just a zip file, so it needs
to be placed in the /usr/lib/mozilla/extensions/{somepath}/{somepath}
and unpacked there.

Last time I built gears from source there were some hickups with wrong
libraries and flags, but It wasn't too difficult. If any more help is
needed, let me know.

David

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:24 PM, David Van Assche  wrote:
> ok, here's what I've found so far... I'll keep looking for the actual
> spec file. I dont even know if this works, its been a while since I
> looked into this...
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Lucian Branescu
>  wrote:
>> I don't have experience with rpm, but since much of the work is
>> already done, I guess packaging it wouldn't be a problem. Especially
>> since it would only be necessary after the SSB actually works,
>> although earlier can't hurt.
>>
>> 2009/4/14 Tomeu Vizoso :
>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 21:42, David Van Assche  
>>> wrote:
>>>> I can send over what I have... I had the rpm source file somewhere...
>>>> I can look for it if there is interest...
>>>
>>> Yes please, the .spec file will be a good step forward.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Tomeu
>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Lucian Branescu
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 2009/4/14 Tomeu Vizoso :
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 20:19, Lucian Branescu
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Gears is just a XUL extension, packaging shouldn't be a problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean you are volunteering to package it? ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Van Assche already worked on it and got it pretty much working,
>>>>>> but it never was submitted to fedora. Would you like to finish this
>>>>>> work?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Packaging work might not seem too challenging, but consumes quite a
>>>>>> bit of time and is crucially important for projects like Sugar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll have to look into that, then.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>> it does not require sync-ing state, web apps can store everything in
>>>>>>> Gears and work in offline mode. Gears provides some integration with
>>>>>>> the desktop (which can simply be ignored, it's mostly desktop
>>>>>>> shortcuts and the like), an SQLite database accesible from JS and a
>>>>>>> Worker (thread-like) object.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using existing web technologies and standards (de facto or not) is
>>>>>>> very valuable, especially for my case. I don't want to invent any new
>>>>>>> technologies or techniques, just to provide a simple Site Specific
>>>>>>> Browser. If I were to do so, existing web apps would have to be
>>>>>>> modified and new ones would be unusual from the POV of web developers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For Journal integration, the entire Gears database could be store in
>>>>>>> the DataStore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That would work fine, only that for example a karmized web app that
>>>>>> processes images might make more sense to write a png file, so other
>>>>>> activities can open it. But I don't think it's a critical point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Desktop module in Gears can access local files, with permission
>>>>> from the user. So a Gears web app that deals with files should be able
>>>>> to do this.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tomeu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/4/14 Tomeu Vizoso :
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I like your proposal because focuses on a problem interesting to the
>>>>>>>> Sugar community and because proposes a solution that is reasonable
>>>>>>>> enough to be implemented in the GSoC timeframe.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the mention of google gears concerns me a bit, since no
>>>>>>>> distribution that I know is packaging it and because AFAIK it would be
>>>>>>>> sync'ing state between local storage and a remote server when
>>>>>>>> activities are supposed to be storing it's whole state to the journal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From my current POV, may be better to provide a (XPCOM?) component
>>>>>>>> accessible from JS that provides DataStore integration. I think it
>>>>>>>> could be fairly simple to do with hulahop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the other hand, we should really find a way to have Google Gears
>>>>>>>> installed alongside Sugar because many interesting sites require it,
>>>>>>>> but it may be out of scope form your proposal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tomeu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] webified and google gears

[David Van Assche]

I can send over what I have... I had the rpm source file somewhere...
I can look for it if there is interest...

David

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Lucian Branescu
 wrote:
> 2009/4/14 Tomeu Vizoso :
>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 20:19, Lucian Branescu
>>  wrote:
>>> Gears is just a XUL extension, packaging shouldn't be a problem.
>>
>> You mean you are volunteering to package it? ;)
>>
>> David Van Assche already worked on it and got it pretty much working,
>> but it never was submitted to fedora. Would you like to finish this
>> work?
>>
>> Packaging work might not seem too challenging, but consumes quite a
>> bit of time and is crucially important for projects like Sugar.
>>
>
> I'll have to look into that, then.
>
>>> Also,
>>> it does not require sync-ing state, web apps can store everything in
>>> Gears and work in offline mode. Gears provides some integration with
>>> the desktop (which can simply be ignored, it's mostly desktop
>>> shortcuts and the like), an SQLite database accesible from JS and a
>>> Worker (thread-like) object.
>>
>> Sounds good.
>>
>>> Using existing web technologies and standards (de facto or not) is
>>> very valuable, especially for my case. I don't want to invent any new
>>> technologies or techniques, just to provide a simple Site Specific
>>> Browser. If I were to do so, existing web apps would have to be
>>> modified and new ones would be unusual from the POV of web developers.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>>> For Journal integration, the entire Gears database could be store in
>>> the DataStore.
>>
>> That would work fine, only that for example a karmized web app that
>> processes images might make more sense to write a png file, so other
>> activities can open it. But I don't think it's a critical point.
>>
>
> The Desktop module in Gears can access local files, with permission
> from the user. So a Gears web app that deals with files should be able
> to do this.
>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tomeu
>>
>>
>>> 2009/4/14 Tomeu Vizoso :
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I like your proposal because focuses on a problem interesting to the
>>>> Sugar community and because proposes a solution that is reasonable
>>>> enough to be implemented in the GSoC timeframe.
>>>>
>>>> But the mention of google gears concerns me a bit, since no
>>>> distribution that I know is packaging it and because AFAIK it would be
>>>> sync'ing state between local storage and a remote server when
>>>> activities are supposed to be storing it's whole state to the journal.
>>>>
>>>> From my current POV, may be better to provide a (XPCOM?) component
>>>> accessible from JS that provides DataStore integration. I think it
>>>> could be fairly simple to do with hulahop.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, we should really find a way to have Google Gears
>>>> installed alongside Sugar because many interesting sites require it,
>>>> but it may be out of scope form your proposal.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Tomeu
>>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] ideal flash activity to be remade as karma activity

[David Van Assche]

You guys should also look into jclic:

http://clic.xtec.cat/en/jclic/

Its java, but lots of pre-existing examples already out there for
courses and lessons, created by the ministry of catalonia

kind Regards,
David van Assche

2009/4/1 Lucian Branescu :
> 2009/4/1 Bryan Berry :
>> On Tue, 2009-03-31 at 15:45 +0200, Lucian Branescu wrote:
>> In the short-term, we need to create some proof-of-concept animations w/
>> audio and client-side i18n. It would be great to have at the end of the
>> summer some re-usable javascript libraries for lesson plan reader,
>> navigation, help, etc.
>
> I'll look into audio (programmable from JS) and i18n.  is
> already proven :)
>
>>> And I really care about adhering to web standards and practices,
>>> because it yields incredible code reuse and opportunities for
>>> integration. That's why I suggested that you could build Karma so that
>>> it works on (most) modern browsers, including Browse. Chrome
>>> experiments http://www.chromeexperiments.com/ proves that impressive
>>> animations and even 3D is possible with Webkit, Webkit+v8 and Firefox
>>> 3.1.
>>
>> Absolutely, web standards make everyone's life easier
>>
> I'd meant to put more emphasis on practices. For interoperability, but
> most importantly to make skills transferrable. Web developers would
> find a native API being recommended instead of  or 
> unusual and unintuitive.
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[Sugar-devel] logging irc setup

[David Van Assche]

well, u can find it here: http://www.nubae.com/logs/sugar

There are various curious commands the bot can help with based on
google stuff the list is as follows:

[control command is @ and not !]
example: @google define:sugarlabs

#   !google [.google.country.code] [define:|spell:|movie:]  #
#   <1+1> <1 cm in ft> #
##
#   !images [.google.country.code]#
#   !groups [.google.country.code]#
#   !news [.google.country.code]  #
#   !local [.google.country.code]  near#
#   !book [.google.country.code]  #
#   !video [.google.country.code] #
#   !scholar [.google.country.code]   #
#   !fight  vs#
#   !youtube [.google.country.code]   #
#   !trans reg...@region  #
#   !gamespot #
#   !gamefaqs  in   #
#   !blog [.google.country.code]  #
#   !ebay [.ebay.country.code]#
#   !ebayfight  vs#
#   !wikipedia [.2-digit-country-code] [#subtag]  #
#   !wikimedia [.www.wikisite.org[/wiki]] [#subtag]
#   !locate #
#   !review  [@ ] #
#   !torrent  #
#   !top#
#   !popular#
#   !dailymotion  #
#   !ign  #
#   !myspace  #
#   !trends [.google.country.code]  #
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

[David Van Assche]

hey there sean essentially there is no difference between SoaS and
cd the problem comes from the distro specific intricacies, which
can be many more than devs care to admit... I agree.. this is not a
usable product unless it alll works... saying oh welll speak
doesnt work because of x or y, is no excuse. bios has nothing to do
with this, this is purely distro related... for example... on fedora
we have 80% workage, on ubuntu 40 maybe 50% workage... but for those
of us in the field selling this tech, this is not accpetable... I say
it again I know its an open source project but it doesnt help
funding if we cant even get the damn thing to run a cd, btw, is
worse than a stick at this point. at least for ubuntu goood
luck and lets work this shit out so we finally have a solution that
works in schoosl

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Sean DALY  wrote:
> It is absolutely vital that SoaS boot/install work in a reliable way.
> Any nongeek user who can't use it will not bother reporting precise
> bug information, and moreover will lose motivation to try it again. In
> the case of branded USB sticks boot/install failures will make Sugar
> Labs appear as a cruddy product. Branded sticks will need to work
> every time.
>
> OK that said I ask you to bear with me since I don't know enough about
> the (surely formidable) technical hurdles in succeeding boot/install.
> Can anyone brief me on the importance/difficulty of the following
> factors? Perhaps there is a page which enumerates these factors?
>
> * User difficulty configuring BIOS boot from USB
> * Underlying distribution
> * Recognizing hardware
> * Dependencies
> * Network (LAN, Internet) connectivity: configuration, absence thereof
> * USB key locked in read-only mode
> * Missing or buggy activities
>
>
> Please forgive my ignorance but does SoaS generate a log at
> boot/install? Are there error codes specific to Sugar? I would imagine
> that's distribution-dependent... The user feedback rate could be
> improved if we communicate a super-simple procedure on boot/install
> failure, e.g. an e-mail address to send a boot/install log file to. As
> well (perhaps this happens already?), on successful boot/install and
> with Internet connnectivity, ideally the stick should phone home with
> the boot log which would indicate successful SoaS/hardware
> combinations and provide some statistics on how many sticks make it to
> screens. Of course, per privacy concerns there should be no
> user-identifiable information, or rather any such info should be
> immediately anonymized. Is there a way to trap errors in each
> activity, in case of error can the boot/install log be appended to,
> can a user feedback agent return the updated log to us if the Net is
> available?
>
> One more (maybe silly) question, is there a fundamental difference
> between Sugar on a CD and Sugar on a Stick?
>
> If this has been dealt with, any pointers to resources would be appreciated.
>
> thank you
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:34 AM, David Van Assche  
> wrote:
>> well this entire conversation was really brought about because I
>> couldnt practice speech with my 2 nephews... Im sorry if I crossed the
>> line a bit, but I think what I said needed to be said... SoaS is
>> indeed the best plqtform right now  and the kids not only loved it
>> (one 9 the other 3) they needed no explanation for the interface... to
>> them it was as natural as eating a piece of bread.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Samuel Klein  wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Wade Brainerd  wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Im gonna try and make this easy:
>>>>>
>>>>> SoaS - the latest fedora core based
>>>>> I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
>>>>> Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed
>>>>> stick?
>>>>
>>>> Aleksey Lim recently took over this orphaned package.  Can you get in touch
>>>> with him (alsroot on IRC) and help work it out?  I have yet to even try 
>>>> SoaS
>>>> but information on what activities do and don't work should be posted to
>>>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus so we can triage them.
>>>> We are watching that page.  Thus far most of our work has been migrating
>>>> activities over to SL.org but hopefully we can start actually getting them
>>>> to work on SoaS soon.
>>>
>>> On a sidenote: some of the most exciting work for me last summer was
>>> Hemant

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

[David Van Assche]

well this entire conversation was really brought about because I
couldnt practice speech with my 2 nephews... Im sorry if I crossed the
line a bit, but I think what I said needed to be said... SoaS is
indeed the best plqtform right now  and the kids not only loved it
(one 9 the other 3) they needed no explanation for the interface... to
them it was as natural as eating a piece of bread.

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Samuel Klein  wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Wade Brainerd  wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche 
>> wrote:
>>> Im gonna try and make this easy:
>>>
>>> SoaS - the latest fedora core based
>>> I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
>>> Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed
>>> stick?
>>
>> Aleksey Lim recently took over this orphaned package.  Can you get in touch
>> with him (alsroot on IRC) and help work it out?  I have yet to even try SoaS
>> but information on what activities do and don't work should be posted to
>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus so we can triage them.
>> We are watching that page.  Thus far most of our work has been migrating
>> activities over to SL.org but hopefully we can start actually getting them
>> to work on SoaS soon.
>
> On a sidenote: some of the most exciting work for me last summer was
> Hemant's text-to-speech work, which would have real impact if its
> integration into Sugar were completed.  How close is that to being
> possible?
>
>> http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/TypingTurtle-9.xo is the latest release but I
>> can't guarantee it works on anything but XO.
>
> [Getting pretty hot...]
>
> SJ
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

[David Van Assche]

God I a m happy u stated the needed. We hqd a presentation in Grqz,
Austria, where basically we walked out like idiots. We got loqds of
feedback, which is what my message as about... but fact remains SoaS,
be if fedora (a slight bit better) or ubuntu.. we as educators,
marketers can only shake our heads...

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:53 AM, Caroline Meeks
 wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche 
> wrote:
>>
>> Caroline, I really don't think the problem is lack of testing in the case
>> of Ubuntu.  It is that so little works that activity testing is basically a
>> smoke test (turn it on and see if it even comes up).  And because the only
>> status report is a bunch of individual bug reports, there is a high barrier
>> to entry.   My strategy has been to try every week or so to update the
>> packages on my Ubuntu laptop and try launching everything.  Most packaged
>> activities don't launch.
>>
>> As for SOAS, my experience working in a classroom tells me there is no
>> point in bothering with it until the boot time is substantially reduced,
>> except for the special case of a computer lab.  Since my particular school
>> environments and Sugar/OLPC targets don't include that mode, I personally
>> have not been trying it out.
>
> FWIW, my deployment timeline for SoaS at the Gardner School is informal
> usage this summer and classroom usage in the Fall.  Anyone using it on a
> more aggressive timeline should be aware that they are ahead of me and
> breaking new ground and plan accordingly.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Caroline Meeks
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> hmm, ok I find that page pretty confusing and hard to use but then I'm
>>> not a wiki is all type person.  If its working for you and your the activity
>>> team then we should try to use it.
>>>
>>> Maybe you could cross link from the SoaS page.
>>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick
>>>
>>> I think our underlying problem is that there is not very much testing
>>> being done.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Wade Brainerd  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We are trying to gather activity status information at
>>>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus - there is a 'soas' tag
>>>> which indicates the activity works on SoaS, any errors should be reported 
>>>> in
>>>> the Remarks column.
>>>>
>>>> But despite a few public requests we haven't managed to get any SoaS
>>>> test results posted there.
>>>>
>>>> -Wade
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Caroline Meeks
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we have a place for testers to record the what works with which
>>>>> release?
>>>>>
>>>>> If not perhaps someone could set it up on the moodle system
>>>>> schools.sugarlab.org using the moodle database module:
>>>>> http://docs.moodle.org/en/Database_module
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted
>>>>>> upon (much more importantly)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Im gonna try and make this easy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SoaS - the latest fedora core based
>>>>>> I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
>>>>>> Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed
>>>>>> stick?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ubuntu -
>>>>>> no read
>>>>>> no write
>>>>>> no jiggzawpuzzle
>>>>>> etoys
>>>>>> scratch
>>>>>> epathi
>>>>>> measure
>>>>>> anything tam tam based
>>>>>> until very recently even browse
>>>>>> pdf reader of any kind
>>>>>> measure
>>>>>> distance
>>>>>> slider
>>>>>> video chat
>>>>>> abc flower (thing doesnt even exist)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> what is the solution:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we test the damn tings before release we do what

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

[David Van Assche]

u do realise that it was me that set up the moodle infrastructure
right? except I a was alone...


nubae

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Wade Brainerd  wrote:
> We are trying to gather activity status information at
> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus - there is a 'soas' tag
> which indicates the activity works on SoaS, any errors should be reported in
> the Remarks column.
>
> But despite a few public requests we haven't managed to get any SoaS test
> results posted there.
>
> -Wade
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Caroline Meeks 
> wrote:
>>
>> Do we have a place for testers to record the what works with which
>> release?
>>
>> If not perhaps someone could set it up on the moodle system
>> schools.sugarlab.org using the moodle database module:
>> http://docs.moodle.org/en/Database_module
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted
>>> upon (much more importantly)
>>>
>>> Im gonna try and make this easy:
>>>
>>> SoaS - the latest fedora core based
>>> I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
>>> Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed
>>> stick?
>>>
>>> ubuntu -
>>> no read
>>> no write
>>> no jiggzawpuzzle
>>> etoys
>>> scratch
>>> epathi
>>> measure
>>> anything tam tam based
>>> until very recently even browse
>>> pdf reader of any kind
>>> measure
>>> distance
>>> slider
>>> video chat
>>> abc flower (thing doesnt even exist)
>>>
>>> ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies...
>>>
>>>
>>> what is the solution:
>>>
>>> we test the damn tings before release we do what greg
>>> dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution:
>>>
>>> 1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on
>>> the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed...
>>> the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days:
>>> Examples:
>>>
>>> 1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever
>>> the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph
>>> based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils...
>>>
>>> guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked
>>> for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet
>>> exist.
>>>
>>> 2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction
>>> groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers...
>>>
>>>
>>> 2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say
>>> this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when
>>> working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time...
>>> yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing
>>> list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll
>>> actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly;
>>>
>>> 3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get
>>> together to create the tools that we actually need (the ones that will
>>> really chqnge the world)
>>>
>>> I hope no one takes this is as a critcism of the effort put into
>>> creating activities till now; but people... lets frocus... lets sugar
>>> mean something for teachers
>>>
>>> David (nubae) Van Assche
>>> ___
>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Caroline Meeks
>> Solution Grove
>> carol...@solutiongrove.com
>>
>> 617-500-3488 - Office
>> 505-213-3268 - Fax
>>
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

[David Van Assche]

you know what the irony is with all this... all we need to do to get
those packs working is type ./configure --with-libabiword

I know because I took the painful step of doing it in from source...
this problem has now existed for 8 months... u tell me if that is
acceptable or not. u know the worst part of this entire debacle...
only the packzge ,aintainer can fix this 2 second fix::: but obviously
he has more important things to do.

I aplogogize again for my tone... but this has gone to far... folks
like u and me that are in the field selling this `crap`should not be
remotemy having these issues... come on people... u want funding...
let us do our job then!!!

Nubae

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Carol Farlow Lerche  wrote:
> Frustration -- yup.
>
> However, let's try to come up with a way forward that solves the problem in
> the sort-of near term, and the frustration in the very near term.
>
> I too have been trying to run sugar on ubuntu and having frustration.  So,
> what I think would minimize the frustration is a known place to look for the
> current state of what works, what doesn't work and why, and a way to work
> around the problem till it has a permanent fix.  It's obvious from the
> sugar-ubuntu list that quite a few people are finding and fixing bugs, but
> the fixes are in various stages of hitting the repositories.
>
> E.g. and correct if this is inaccurate, it looks to me like the first
> problem you hit with write and jigsawpuzzle is that abiword hasn't been
> repackaged to provide a "libabiword", and the people who can actually do
> that (the abiword project) haven't bought into or gotten around to this
> yet.  So can someone provide a different package, even an rpm that could be
> installed with alien?  and could the location of where to get this be noted
> in the "state of the sugar ubuntu nation"?  Same with other known problems
> that have been figured out but not percolated into a distributed fix.
>
> Rinse and repeat for SOAS and any other distros floating around.  This would
> at least make clear what is known to be wrong, and steps underway to fix.
>
> As for the second point, namely providing activities requested by teachers,
> I agree it is important, and I think Wade has an almost-ready typing tutor
> (google these lists for a prior thread on this).
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 6:14 PM, David Van Assche 
> wrote:
>>
>> ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted
>> upon (much more importantly)
>>
>> Im gonna try and make this easy:
>>
>> SoaS - the latest fedora core based
>> I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
>> Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed
>> stick?
>>
>> ubuntu -
>> no read
>> no write
>> no jiggzawpuzzle
>> etoys
>> scratch
>> epathi
>> measure
>> anything tam tam based
>> until very recently even browse
>> pdf reader of any kind
>> measure
>> distance
>> slider
>> video chat
>> abc flower (thing doesnt even exist)
>>
>> ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies...
>>
>>
>> what is the solution:
>>
>> we test the damn tings before release we do what greg
>> dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution:
>>
>> 1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on
>> the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed...
>> the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days:
>> Examples:
>>
>> 1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever
>> the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph
>> based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils...
>>
>> guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked
>> for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet
>> exist.
>>
>> 2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction
>> groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers...
>>
>>
>> 2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say
>> this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when
>> working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time...
>> yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing
>> list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll
>> actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly;
>>
>> 3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get
>> together to create the tool

[Sugar-devel] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

[David Van Assche]

ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted
upon (much more importantly)

Im gonna try and make this easy:

SoaS - the latest fedora core based
I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed stick?

ubuntu -
no read
no write
no jiggzawpuzzle
etoys
scratch
epathi
measure
anything tam tam based
until very recently even browse
pdf reader of any kind
measure
distance
slider
video chat
abc flower (thing doesnt even exist)

ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies...


what is the solution:

we test the damn tings before release we do what greg
dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution:

1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on
the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed...
the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days:
Examples:

1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever
the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph
based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils...

guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked
for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet
exist.

2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction
groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers...


2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say
this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when
working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time...
yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing
list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll
actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly;

3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get
together to create the tools that we actually need (the ones that will
really chqnge the world)

I hope no one takes this is as a critcism of the effort put into
creating activities till now; but people... lets frocus... lets sugar
mean something for teachers

David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM

[David Van Assche]

Yeah, I know... its what gave me the idea... kudos... ;-)

David...

On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Simon Peter
 wrote:
> 2009/1/31 David Van Assche :
>> Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits
>> (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in
>> and does the sugar stuff Then people could use their distro to
>> create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for
>> sugar and its activities...
>
> I've done exactly that in Sbuntu:
> http://dev.laptop.org/~probono/sbuntu/
>
> (You take a stock Ubuntu 8.10 USB stick, and simply add the file
> sugar.squashfs to the directory casper/ on that stick - done.)
>
> Unfortunately the Fedrora Live CD infrastucture doesn't support this yet:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470879
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Summary & Minutes from olpc-friends' Tuesday Deployment Meeting

[David Van Assche]

Enjoy:

 hpachas> _sj_, los temas de implementación pasan por 3 temas importantes

the implementation themes are split into 3 important ones:

 hpachas> _sj_, logistico, técnico y pedagógico

logistics, technical and pedagogical

 hpachas> pienso que se deben agendar reuniones en base a los tres grandes
  temas
_sj_> hpachas, los tres!

I think we should aggregate the meetings according to the big 3 themes

_sj_> oh, right, logistics
_sj_> hpachas, absolutamente.  logistics is its own Field
_sj_> as anyone who has every sat with hernan or fiorella can tell
  you...
 hpachas> _sj_, en la parte logistica, son muchos pasos que los demás
  paises deben entender como realizarlo

yes in the logistics part there are many steps that the other
countries could learn how to realize

 hpachas> _sj_, ahora a eso tenemos que añadir: distribución,
  reparación, sustitución

to that we now need to add distribution, repairs, and substitution

_sj_> hpachas, que es sustitucion?
_sj_> support?
 hpachas> _sj_, sustitución = reemplazo de un equipo por otro
_sj_> ah! interestante!

substitution means replacing one machine for another

 hpachas> _sj_, son muchas cosas por las cuales nosotros ya hemos pasado y
  estamos pasando

these are many aspects which we have already experienced and are experiencing.

 hpachas> _sj_, ahora en el tema técnico, es otro mundo paralelo

in the technical theme, it is a parallel world

 hpachas> _sj_, localización, activación, etc, etc

localisation, activation, etc

_sj_> hpachas,  si, muchas muchas cosas importantes

yes many important things

 hpachas> _sj_, tenemos q recordar que la parte técnica va en los
  siguientes aspectos: XO, XS, AP, Swhti, Acceso a Internet

we have to remember that the technical parts are split into the
following items: XO, XS, AP, Swhti, Internet Access

_sj_> hpachas, puedes ayudar con los agendas de estos reuniones?

can u help with the agenda of these meetings

_sj_> tienes el gran parte de experiencia con estos

u have the most experience with these items

_sj_> temas, problemas, soluciones

themes, problems, solutions

_sj_> y la compartmentacion entre temas diferentes y paraleles

and the compartimentisation between different parallel themes

 hpachas> _sj_, pienso que debemos hacer una evaluación de como se
  encuentran en estos mometnos todos los paises OLPC

I think we should evaluate how the OLPC countries find themselves right now.

_sj_> Swhti?
 hpachas> _sj_, quizas tener un site que diga el grado de avance de cada
  pais, ayudaría

maybe have a site that shows the percentage of advancement of each
country would help

_sj_> hpachas, estos discusiones son para los escuelas y paises
  pequenos

these discussions are for schools and smaller countries only

_sj_> solamente
_sj_> pero hay paraleles

but there are parallels

_sj_> ah
_sj_> el mapo con "el grado de avance" es muy viejo

the map with the percentage advance is very old

_sj_> mapa*
_sj_> hmm
 hpachas> ese mapa debe ser interactivo, editable a través de internte

that map should be interactive and editable via the net.

_sj_> hpachas, voy a ver.  si...
_sj_> no tenemos cada uno
_sj_> pere sera valable
 hpachas> _sj_, si colocamos el programa OLPC en linea de tiempo, diria q
  empieza por el tema logistico, técnico/pedagógico

If we put the OLPC program in a linear timeline, we could say it
starts with the logistics, and then tecnical and pedagogical.

_sj_> si.  wikitimeline es interesante para eso...

wikitimeline could be used for that.

_sj_> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EasyTimeline


On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Michael Stone  wrote:
> Folks,
>
> We had an awesome deployment meeting this Tuesday at 2000 UTC on
> #olpc-deployment on irc.freenode.net. Almost 30 people came, with knowledge of
> 10 different deployments!
>
> Summary and minutes are now available at
>
>   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#Summary
>   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127
>
> Enjoy, and please join us next Tuesday at 2000 UTC or Wednesday at 0500 UTC.
> Also, please feel free to add items to the next meetings' agenda at the bottom
> of
>
>   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings
>
> so that interested folks can prepare questions and remarks.
>
> Voluntarily yours,
>
> Michael
>
> P.S. - Would some kind English+Spanish-speaking soul be willing to provide a
> nice translation of Hernan's remarks:
>
>   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#hpachas.27_Remarks
>
> for interested illiterates like me?
> ___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM

[David Van Assche]

Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar
in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu
has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems
very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro.
Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a
commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP
sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to
really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning
objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu
is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas  wrote:
> Simon Schampijer schrieb:
>>
>> David Van Assche wrote:
>>>
>>> What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager
>>> (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated
>>> as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as
>>> does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it
>>> might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for
>>> all educational groups...
>>>
>>> David
>>
>> If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes.
>> Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily
>> customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions.
>
> I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome
> and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can
> just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1]
>
> The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware
> than the XO.
>
> --Sebastian
>
> [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree
>
>> Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB
>> sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that
>> and offer space for the user he can write to as well.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>Simon
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM

[David Van Assche]

What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager
(whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated
as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as
does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it
might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for
all educational groups...

David

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Simon Schampijer  wrote:
> David Van Assche wrote:
>>
>> You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar
>> or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever
>> other apps...
>
> Sure - I understnad the technical part. I wondered more about what people
> expect when thy download the Sugar Fedora Spin. I mean when you get the KDE
> spin you don't expect to get GNOME and KDE in that spin, right? ;p
>
> Apart from that - not a big deal for me.
>
> Simon
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM

[David Van Assche]

You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar
or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever
other apps...

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Simon Schampijer  wrote:
> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
>> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer  
>> wrote:
>>> Ok, did not think about yum update.
>>>
>>> Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have
>>> though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac
>>> users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok.
>>
>> Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can
>> play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they
>> would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp.
>> That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can
>> explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have
>> them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it).
>>
>> Marco
>>
>
> As I said - might be a good way to get them try out other apps besides
> Sugar - see that as a benefit. We could build customized images as well
> - that is true.
>
> Thanks,
>Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM

[David Van Assche]

Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits
(as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in
and does the sugar stuff Then people could use their distro to
create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for
sugar and its activities...

I'd also suggest putting wubi on it so it can be run on windows... (cringe)

Anyweay, so this would become the sugar addon image/cd/drive

David Van Assche

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti
>  wrote:
>> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer  
>> wrote:
>>> Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this
>>> post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332
>>>
>>> It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as
>>> possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps
>>> of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking
>>> @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to
>>> infos on how to best trim down are welcome.
>>
>> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)?
>
> If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time,
> many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits.
>
> But setting up a rsync server may help with that.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
>> Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can
>> switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to
>> reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just
>> leverage his work...
>>
>> Marco
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha

[David Van Assche]

This sounds like a great foundation for a sugar framework... something
that not only coders can get a feel for...

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Chris Ball  wrote:
> Hi Ben,
>
>   > Groupthink: Collab should be easy.
>
> (from the patch):
> -self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50)
> +self.cloud.totranslate = groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50)
>
> .. wow, that *is* easy.  And it's synchronous, so the text box is
> updated with each character press.  You could also use this technique
> for Pippy's source code textbox, which would immediately turn it into a
> collaborative editor.  (I don't care about collisions very much as long
> as everyone gets the same state; they can be resolved socially.)
>
> Now that we're excited, maybe you should let on what the blocker bugs
> are.  :-)
>
> Could we sign you up for a quick XOCamp demo/talk?
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Chris.
> --
> Chris Ball   
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs

[David Van Assche]

This might be of interest:

Salasaga is a GTK/Gnome based IDE used to create eLearning for
applications. With it, you take screenshots of your applications,
add highlights, text and external images, then generate learning
objects. Present output is in swf (flash) format.

It would certainly be useful for making flash based learning objects
for Moodle. The site for the soft is here:
http://www.salasaga.org/

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Wade Brainerd  wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Bert Freudenberg  wrote:
>> On 05.01.2009, at 05:24, John Watlington wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Currently Sugar is incapable of running software which is not
>>>> specifically designed for it.
>>>
>>> Sugar runs simpler SWF applications just fine, through the Browser.
>>> They don't have to be "designed" for Sugar.
>>
>>
>> I think this goes besides the original point of Bryan. He is well aware that
>> software needs to be specifically designed for Sugar, and wether this is
>> good or bad is not the current debate. The point is what tools one can use
>> to implement a proper Sugar activity. Bryan says the tools many content
>> developers are familiar with are HTML, Javascript, and Flash.
>
> I agree completely - I proposed a swf-activity launcher script as the
> solution, in my initial response to Bryan.
>
>> I think it would be relatively easy to come up with an activity template
>> that just has a subdirectory for SWF content. Creating an SWF activity then
>> would involve copying the template, editing the meta data, putting the SWF
>> content into the directory, zipping it up and voila, a nice XO bundle. That
>> process could easily be done by a script, even on Windows.
>
> I think the template should be built into and supported by the Sugar
> dev team, rather than something that has to be copied around.
>
> That way it's able to be updated and improved over time, and as better
> Flash solutions become available we can incorporate them easily.
>
> I agree with the rest of Bert's plan.  It should be a PyGTK activity
> with just an activity toolbar, which launches Gnash or Adobe Flash
> into its canvas.  It should also find the Flash persistence database
> and copy it to/from the Journal.
>
> A nice additional feature would be to make use of Jordan's screen
> resolution dropper on the XO to allow Flash activities to run at
> 600x450, which would likely quadruple performance.
>
> -Wade
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