Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOB] Yoruba i18n motion
Dear Oversight board members please vote YES for us. We can follow up with sourcing for more funding locally for other languages if this can go through. Thanks for taking care of Nigeria's need, but we have so many languages here..we hope this would be a big success, that would pave the way for us to push for more work locally here. Regards! David On Sat, 5/7/16, Sameer Verma wrote: Subject: Re: [IAEP] [SLOB] Yoruba i18n motion To: "Walter Bender" Cc: "SLOBs" , "iaep" , "Sugar-dev Devel" , "OLPC para usuarios, docentes, voluntarios y administradores" Date: Saturday, May 7, 2016, 2:45 PM Approve. Sameer On May 6, 2016 6:40 PM, "Walter Bender" wrote: At today's Sugar Labs oversight board meeting [1], we discussed the motion submitted by Chris Leonard to fund a program for translation of Sugar into Yoruba, one of the three main languages spoken in Nigeria. I second the motion and bring it to you in an email vote. Members of the oversight board, please reply to this email solicitation for a vote on the following motion. Motion: To fund a program to initiate the translation of Sugar into Yoruba. The specific milestones and costs are detailed below. A description of the rationale for the project is found at [2]. The work would be led by Samson Goddy and reviewed by Chris Leonard, in his role as Translation Community Manager. This proposal is for the translation of Sugar user interface andcertain Sugar Activities into the Yoruba language (ISO-639 code - yo). Milestone 1 - The initial payment of $350 USD will cover startup costs(internet connection fees, localizer recruitment/training, etc.).Payment is to be made upon successful completion of contractualarrangements with fiscal sponsor (SFC). Milestone 2 - Glucose - Payable upon completion and upload to Pootleof the PO files for sugar, sugar-toolkit-gtk3, OLPC_switch_desktopwill be for $1,350 USD. Included in this milestone is a $300 USDproject management fee, in addition to fees of approximately 40cents/word for the projects included in this milestone. The uploadedfiles must pass all "critical" error checks (as flagged by the Pootlesoftware) and be approved by the Sugar Labs Translation CommunityManager, such approval not to be unreasonably withheld. Milestone 2 must be completed prior to Milestone 3. Milestone 3 - Fructose - Payable upon completion and upload of the POfiles for Calculate, Chat, ImageViewer, Jukebox, Log, Paint, Pippy,Portfolio, Read, ReadETexts, Record, Speak, Terminal, TurtleArt, Web,Write will be for $2,300 USD. Included in this milestone is a $675 USDproject management fee, in addition to fees of approximately 40cents/word for the projects included in this milestone. The uploadedfiles must pass all "critical" error checks (as flagged by the Pootlesoftware) and be approved by the Sugar Labs Translation CommunityManager, such approval not to be unreasonably withheld. Total anticipated costs for all three milestone payments will be $4,000 USD. All projects are hosted on the Sugar Labs Pootle server at http://translate.sugarlabs.org/yo/ Translation may be performed off-line with subsequent upload to thePootle server. regards, -walter [1] https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Meeting_Minutes-2016-05-06[2] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gtqpEOmDxxUYGdpbbBMlrPLQ-T6_OVnqdyAPJpaeORw/edit?usp=sharing -- Walter Bender Sugar Labshttp://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS
Hi James, Well whatever it is, it highlights some practical experience of trying to use SOAS, with blunders and all. It needs to be used by people with technical and troubleshooting skills. David -Original Message- From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 1:00 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: s...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS Inline quoted reply. On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 12:46:37PM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > Well my old Toshiba laptop for instance, a Qosmio i7, a few years > old but was a $2000 laptop when new. On this I can't boot and run > SOAS. It never completes booting, you go through the name, colour, > gender, school grade but then it just shows the blank screen with > only the mouse cursor screen never getting as far as the Sugar Home > View.. Isn't that bug #1240354 that we've all been talking about on sugar-devel@? If so, it has nothing to do with hardware compatibility, you've just imagined it has. ;-) Try Fedora or 32-bit build instead? > Tested on a few of these - Lenovo Q190 desktop computer - using the > 32 bit or 64 bit version that worked (can't remember but we tried > both), it boots OK but freezes after starting a few > activities. Could that be the activity rather than the OS? Sounds like you tried a 32-bit build? > As I said, on a very old Asus EEE PC 1005H model, it works very > reliably every time. Isn't that a 32-bit system? (N270 lacks Intel 64 feature). > Could it be the LinuxLive USB Creator installer that is to blame? Not likely given available information. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS
Hi, Well my old Toshiba laptop for instance, a Qosmio i7, a few years old but was a $2000 laptop when new. On this I can't boot and run SOAS. It never completes booting, you go through the name, colour, gender, school grade but then it just shows the blank screen with only the mouse cursor screen never getting as far as the Sugar Home View.. Tested on a few of these - Lenovo Q190 desktop computer - using the 32 bit or 64 bit version that worked (can't remember but we tried both), it boots OK but freezes after starting a few activities. Could that be the activity rather than the OS? As I said, on a very old Asus EEE PC 1005H model, it works very reliably every time. Could it be the LinuxLive USB Creator installer that is to blame? David -Original Message- From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 11:05 a.m. To: David Leeming Cc: s...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS The same hardware requirements for the corresponding version of Fedora, since SOAS is based on Fedora. SOAS itself has no hardware requirements beyond what Fedora has. SOAS and Sugar are hardware agnostic. However, some Sugar activities require a camera, some require microphone and speaker, and most require wireless or wired networking. A keyboard, touchpad or mouse, and touchscreen are also useful. On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 10:50:06AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > Hi James, > > What are the hardware requirements for SOAS to work? > > David > > > -Original Message- > From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] > Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 10:37 a.m. > To: David Leeming > Cc: s...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS > > G'day David, > > I've no guidelines. There are some industry best practices, but they > boil down to; > > - conditions of sale, e.g. the seller warrants compatibility with > Linux, or fails to, > > - compatibility testing, e.g. running an uncustomised Linux such as > Fedora, and verifying it works with enough stability, > > - component testing, e.g. a memory tester, > > - scenario testing, e.g. sleep and wake, lid close, lid open, wireless > access, USB device access, sound playback, sound capture, video > playback, video capture, > > For hardware being repurposed, it helps to know where you got it from, > and what it has experienced. A memory test may help to find thermal > problems, like dust in fans, or battery longevity. > > Otherwise, it's a never ending problem. ;-) > > On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 10:05:19AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > Hi James, > > > > Yes that is understood. Are there any guidelines we can follow in reviewing > > hardware for compatibility? > > > > David > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 10:00 a.m. > > To: David Leeming > > Cc: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; s...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > Subject: Re: [SoaS] [Sugar-devel] SOAS > > > > G'day David, > > > > The stability problems you describe are not SOAS or Linux, but rather > > hardware. We find Sugar, SOAS, or Linux very stable when used on > > known good hardware or in emulation on known good hardware. Emulation > > won't fix your stability issues though; you have to fix the hardware. > > Use a memory tester. > > > > The collaboration problems you describe are Sugar vs Fedora > > compatibility, and as Sam says are on the list for Sugar developers to > > fix. > > > > On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 09:47:15AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > > Hi Peter, > > > > > > Thanks for the confirmation of that. I did notice some issues, using the > > > default online server with two or three SOAS active, I could sometimes > > > see one of the identities in Neighbourhood but never both or all of them. > > > Thus, collaboration was not possible to demonstrate. > > > > > > However, even without collaboration the teachers in my Vanuatu workshop > > > were keen to try for themselves. This issue we found was > > > unpredictability. With some of the computer types we were using in the > > > workshop it works well, but with others it might freeze after a few > > > minutes, or not quite complete the boot sequence. We tested the 32-bit > > > and 64-bit and several types of USB drive, reinstalled the USB drives and > > > confirmed that there is a lot of hardware dependency. The only computer I >
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS
Hi James, What are the hardware requirements for SOAS to work? David -Original Message- From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 10:37 a.m. To: David Leeming Cc: s...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS G'day David, I've no guidelines. There are some industry best practices, but they boil down to; - conditions of sale, e.g. the seller warrants compatibility with Linux, or fails to, - compatibility testing, e.g. running an uncustomised Linux such as Fedora, and verifying it works with enough stability, - component testing, e.g. a memory tester, - scenario testing, e.g. sleep and wake, lid close, lid open, wireless access, USB device access, sound playback, sound capture, video playback, video capture, For hardware being repurposed, it helps to know where you got it from, and what it has experienced. A memory test may help to find thermal problems, like dust in fans, or battery longevity. Otherwise, it's a never ending problem. ;-) On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 10:05:19AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > Hi James, > > Yes that is understood. Are there any guidelines we can follow in reviewing > hardware for compatibility? > > David > > > -Original Message- > From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] > Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 10:00 a.m. > To: David Leeming > Cc: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; s...@lists.sugarlabs.org > Subject: Re: [SoaS] [Sugar-devel] SOAS > > G'day David, > > The stability problems you describe are not SOAS or Linux, but rather > hardware. We find Sugar, SOAS, or Linux very stable when used on > known good hardware or in emulation on known good hardware. Emulation > won't fix your stability issues though; you have to fix the hardware. > Use a memory tester. > > The collaboration problems you describe are Sugar vs Fedora > compatibility, and as Sam says are on the list for Sugar developers to > fix. > > On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 09:47:15AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > > > Thanks for the confirmation of that. I did notice some issues, using the > > default online server with two or three SOAS active, I could sometimes see > > one of the identities in Neighbourhood but never both or all of them. Thus, > > collaboration was not possible to demonstrate. > > > > However, even without collaboration the teachers in my Vanuatu workshop > > were keen to try for themselves. This issue we found was unpredictability. > > With some of the computer types we were using in the workshop it works > > well, but with others it might freeze after a few minutes, or not quite > > complete the boot sequence. We tested the 32-bit and 64-bit and several > > types of USB drive, reinstalled the USB drives and confirmed that there is > > a lot of hardware dependency. The only computer I have that it works on > > every time and never freezes is a small ASUS EEE PC network 6 years old. > > > > Likewise, when installing SOAS with Linux Live USB Creator it installs > > VirtualBox as an option, allowing one to launch SOAS from within Windows. > > But we found sometimes the boot sequence works fine and other times > > (especially when trying to demonstrate to a group) it would not start the > > Live boot sequence but go into Grub instead. So not very reliable way to do > > that either. > > > > Hope this feedback is useful, > > > > David Leeming > > Solomon Islands > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Peter Robinson [mailto:pbrobin...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2015 8:04 p.m. > > To: David Leeming > > Cc: Development of live Sugar distributions; Sugar-dev Devel; Iain Brown > > Douglas > > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS > > > > Hi David, > > > > Sorry, this seem to have fallen through the cracks. > > > > > Iain referred me to a Fedora community where LinuxliveUSB installer was > > > recommended and it works just fine. It also installs a Linux emulator for > > > Windows Virtualbox and I found I could run SOAS beautifully in that way. > > > That is very convenient for my purposes (a quick lead in to Sugar). I > > > also found few problems booting USB sticks and SD cards installed using > > > LinuxLiveUSB, on one machine it seems to hang but others it is fine. So > > > it seems the installer was my issue. > > > > I've never seen or heard of the above, I've also never used > > VirtualBox, glad it works for you. > > > > > Reg
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS
Hi James, Yes that is understood. Are there any guidelines we can follow in reviewing hardware for compatibility? David -Original Message- From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 10:00 a.m. To: David Leeming Cc: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; s...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [SoaS] [Sugar-devel] SOAS G'day David, The stability problems you describe are not SOAS or Linux, but rather hardware. We find Sugar, SOAS, or Linux very stable when used on known good hardware or in emulation on known good hardware. Emulation won't fix your stability issues though; you have to fix the hardware. Use a memory tester. The collaboration problems you describe are Sugar vs Fedora compatibility, and as Sam says are on the list for Sugar developers to fix. On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 09:47:15AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Thanks for the confirmation of that. I did notice some issues, using the > default online server with two or three SOAS active, I could sometimes see > one of the identities in Neighbourhood but never both or all of them. Thus, > collaboration was not possible to demonstrate. > > However, even without collaboration the teachers in my Vanuatu workshop were > keen to try for themselves. This issue we found was unpredictability. With > some of the computer types we were using in the workshop it works well, but > with others it might freeze after a few minutes, or not quite complete the > boot sequence. We tested the 32-bit and 64-bit and several types of USB > drive, reinstalled the USB drives and confirmed that there is a lot of > hardware dependency. The only computer I have that it works on every time and > never freezes is a small ASUS EEE PC network 6 years old. > > Likewise, when installing SOAS with Linux Live USB Creator it installs > VirtualBox as an option, allowing one to launch SOAS from within Windows. But > we found sometimes the boot sequence works fine and other times (especially > when trying to demonstrate to a group) it would not start the Live boot > sequence but go into Grub instead. So not very reliable way to do that either. > > Hope this feedback is useful, > > David Leeming > Solomon Islands > > > -Original Message- > From: Peter Robinson [mailto:pbrobin...@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2015 8:04 p.m. > To: David Leeming > Cc: Development of live Sugar distributions; Sugar-dev Devel; Iain Brown > Douglas > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS > > Hi David, > > Sorry, this seem to have fallen through the cracks. > > > Iain referred me to a Fedora community where LinuxliveUSB installer was > > recommended and it works just fine. It also installs a Linux emulator for > > Windows Virtualbox and I found I could run SOAS beautifully in that way. > > That is very convenient for my purposes (a quick lead in to Sugar). I also > > found few problems booting USB sticks and SD cards installed using > > LinuxLiveUSB, on one machine it seems to hang but others it is fine. So it > > seems the installer was my issue. > > I've never seen or heard of the above, I've also never used > VirtualBox, glad it works for you. > > > Regarding collaboration, if we have a few PC computers on the same WLAN > > running SOAS, can we expect them to see each other and collaborate in > > neighbourhood view, without a server (ie. in the same fashion as XOs on an > > ad-hoc network)? I seem to recall doing that with early versions of SOAS. > > If not, is there a simple/light way to enable collaboration/presence > > service on a local server sufficient to allow a few local SOAS machines to > > collaborate?. I am familiar with XS developments (up to 0.7) but in the > > schools in Vanuatu we'll be using gateway servers we have developed > > ourselves based on Debian (Jessie 8). > > I believe there's an issue with recent versions on collaboration, I > don't remember the exact issues, maybe one of the sugar devs can > answer the reasons and when it's expected it can be fixed. > > Peter > > > Best, > > > > David Leeming > > Solomon Islands > > > > -Original Message- > > From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Peter Robinson > > Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 10:58 a.m. > > To: Development of live Sugar distributions > > Cc: Sugar-dev Devel; Iain Brown Douglas > > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS > > > > Hi David, > > > > I'm the SoaS maintainer. > > > >> I want to demonstrate SOAS to teachers in
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS
Hi Peter, Thanks for the confirmation of that. I did notice some issues, using the default online server with two or three SOAS active, I could sometimes see one of the identities in Neighbourhood but never both or all of them. Thus, collaboration was not possible to demonstrate. However, even without collaboration the teachers in my Vanuatu workshop were keen to try for themselves. This issue we found was unpredictability. With some of the computer types we were using in the workshop it works well, but with others it might freeze after a few minutes, or not quite complete the boot sequence. We tested the 32-bit and 64-bit and several types of USB drive, reinstalled the USB drives and confirmed that there is a lot of hardware dependency. The only computer I have that it works on every time and never freezes is a small ASUS EEE PC network 6 years old. Likewise, when installing SOAS with Linux Live USB Creator it installs VirtualBox as an option, allowing one to launch SOAS from within Windows. But we found sometimes the boot sequence works fine and other times (especially when trying to demonstrate to a group) it would not start the Live boot sequence but go into Grub instead. So not very reliable way to do that either. Hope this feedback is useful, David Leeming Solomon Islands -Original Message- From: Peter Robinson [mailto:pbrobin...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2015 8:04 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: Development of live Sugar distributions; Sugar-dev Devel; Iain Brown Douglas Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS Hi David, Sorry, this seem to have fallen through the cracks. > Iain referred me to a Fedora community where LinuxliveUSB installer was > recommended and it works just fine. It also installs a Linux emulator for > Windows Virtualbox and I found I could run SOAS beautifully in that way. That > is very convenient for my purposes (a quick lead in to Sugar). I also found > few problems booting USB sticks and SD cards installed using LinuxLiveUSB, on > one machine it seems to hang but others it is fine. So it seems the installer > was my issue. I've never seen or heard of the above, I've also never used VirtualBox, glad it works for you. > Regarding collaboration, if we have a few PC computers on the same WLAN > running SOAS, can we expect them to see each other and collaborate in > neighbourhood view, without a server (ie. in the same fashion as XOs on an > ad-hoc network)? I seem to recall doing that with early versions of SOAS. If > not, is there a simple/light way to enable collaboration/presence service on > a local server sufficient to allow a few local SOAS machines to collaborate?. > I am familiar with XS developments (up to 0.7) but in the schools in Vanuatu > we'll be using gateway servers we have developed ourselves based on Debian > (Jessie 8). I believe there's an issue with recent versions on collaboration, I don't remember the exact issues, maybe one of the sugar devs can answer the reasons and when it's expected it can be fixed. Peter > Best, > > David Leeming > Solomon Islands > > -Original Message- > From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org > [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Peter Robinson > Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 10:58 a.m. > To: Development of live Sugar distributions > Cc: Sugar-dev Devel; Iain Brown Douglas > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS > > Hi David, > > I'm the SoaS maintainer. > >> I want to demonstrate SOAS to teachers in Vanuatu. I would like to be more >> useful, but actually don't have the luxury of time to research these arcane >> technical issues in which I am not an expert. I just want to know, is there >> a version of SOAS that is properly tested and known to work? I have used >> SOAS many times before (years ago) without any problems. Which version is >> stable and will boot without errors and not hang on use? > > The lastest stable version is available here: > https://spins.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ > >> Could be hardware? I will try with another flashdrive. Is 2GB of persistent >> storage too little/too much? > > 2Gb should be fine. > > Ask here on the SoaS list if you've got any other queries or issues. > > Peter > >> David Leeming >> Solomon Islands >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Iain Brown >> Douglas >> Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2015 7:52 p.m. >> To: David Leeming >> Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' >> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] SOAS >> >> Hi David, >> >> From what you say, you already did a search fo
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS
Hi Peter, Iain referred me to a Fedora community where LinuxliveUSB installer was recommended and it works just fine. It also installs a Linux emulator for Windows Virtualbox and I found I could run SOAS beautifully in that way. That is very convenient for my purposes (a quick lead in to Sugar). I also found few problems booting USB sticks and SD cards installed using LinuxLiveUSB, on one machine it seems to hang but others it is fine. So it seems the installer was my issue. Regarding collaboration, if we have a few PC computers on the same WLAN running SOAS, can we expect them to see each other and collaborate in neighbourhood view, without a server (ie. in the same fashion as XOs on an ad-hoc network)? I seem to recall doing that with early versions of SOAS. If not, is there a simple/light way to enable collaboration/presence service on a local server sufficient to allow a few local SOAS machines to collaborate?. I am familiar with XS developments (up to 0.7) but in the schools in Vanuatu we'll be using gateway servers we have developed ourselves based on Debian (Jessie 8). Best, David Leeming Solomon Islands -Original Message- From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Peter Robinson Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 10:58 a.m. To: Development of live Sugar distributions Cc: Sugar-dev Devel; Iain Brown Douglas Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS Hi David, I'm the SoaS maintainer. > I want to demonstrate SOAS to teachers in Vanuatu. I would like to be more > useful, but actually don't have the luxury of time to research these arcane > technical issues in which I am not an expert. I just want to know, is there a > version of SOAS that is properly tested and known to work? I have used SOAS > many times before (years ago) without any problems. Which version is stable > and will boot without errors and not hang on use? The lastest stable version is available here: https://spins.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ > Could be hardware? I will try with another flashdrive. Is 2GB of persistent > storage too little/too much? 2Gb should be fine. Ask here on the SoaS list if you've got any other queries or issues. Peter > David Leeming > Solomon Islands > > > -Original Message- > From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org > [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Iain Brown > Douglas > Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2015 7:52 p.m. > To: David Leeming > Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] SOAS > > Hi David, > > From what you say, you already did a search for your error message. > > Does this Fedora forum answer cover your issue? > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=301945 > > I have been working with the script livecd-iso-to-disk and it works > fine. > > I am working on SoaS Loader, here is a link to the work in progress. > > http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org/ > > Good luck, and thanks for putting time in trying to demonstrate SoaS :) > > Iain > > > > > On Tue, 2015-07-21 at 10:51 +1100, David Leeming wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> I have familiarity with Sugar since working with OLPC from 2008, but I >> haven’t been active in these communities for some time. I’m just >> refreshing myself on current status of Sugar with a view to >> introducing teachers to it in a forthcoming workshop in Vanuatu. We’ll >> be using tablets as well as PCs so I have familiarised myself with >> Sugarizer. I then intended to introduce the wider world of Sugar >> conveniently with SOAS. >> >> >> >> So I have downloaded both the 32-bit and 64-bit iso files and verified >> their hashes. I also download the latest version of USB Live >> Installer. I formatted a fairly new 16GB USB with FAT32 and installed >> SOAS on it leaving 2000Mb of persistent memory. The USB stick is a >> “SanDisk Cruzer Facet 16GB”. >> >> >> >> Immediately I run into problems. When booting (on a fairly recent >> Toshiba i7 laptop) it stops with “vesamenu.c32 not a com32r image”. On >> pressing Tab key I do not see “Live” as an option, but it does start >> with the option linux0. Sugar boots and I can use it for a few >> minutes, I tried Speak and Turtle Art for instance, but within a short >> time it hangs and needs a hard boot. >> >> >> >> I repeated the whole process with the 32-bit (verified) iso file and >> same problem. I’ll give this problem only a few hours as that is all I >> have. But I would like to know what are the requirements for a >> reliable repeatable experience with SOAS, as it says on the website, >> to get Sugar into Vanuatu scho
Re: [Sugar-devel] SOAS
Iain, I have installed SOAS using Linuxlive www.linuxliveusb.com which will also install Virtualbox, that it runs from the emulator almost perfectly so far (the only issue I saw was it did not detect the camera) No errors booting (as long as you use the correct 32/64 bit version for your machine) and so far I am Speaking and Turtle-ing with no problems, very responsive, in Windows! Launching in Windows apparently does not support persistence but it is a super easy intro to the full power of Linux! Booting from the USB on my main machine, I found on one larger i7 laptop it will hang after a few minutes, but it seems stable on another less powerful notebook. I will try other USB sticks. But as long as we know there may be some hardware issues, we can live with it. It is great. Many thanks for the tip as it was spot on. Use LinuxLiveUSB to install it and it will run nicely in Virtualbox David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link P.O.Box 652 Honiara, Solomon Islands +677 7476396 (m) +677 24419 (h) www.rurallink.com.sb -Original Message- From: Iain Brown Douglas [mailto:i...@browndouglas.plus.com] Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2015 7:52 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] SOAS Hi David, From what you say, you already did a search for your error message. Does this Fedora forum answer cover your issue? http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=301945 I have been working with the script livecd-iso-to-disk and it works fine. I am working on SoaS Loader, here is a link to the work in progress. http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org/ Good luck, and thanks for putting time in trying to demonstrate SoaS :) Iain On Tue, 2015-07-21 at 10:51 +1100, David Leeming wrote: > Hello, > > > > I have familiarity with Sugar since working with OLPC from 2008, but I > haven’t been active in these communities for some time. I’m just > refreshing myself on current status of Sugar with a view to > introducing teachers to it in a forthcoming workshop in Vanuatu. We’ll > be using tablets as well as PCs so I have familiarised myself with > Sugarizer. I then intended to introduce the wider world of Sugar > conveniently with SOAS. > > > > So I have downloaded both the 32-bit and 64-bit iso files and verified > their hashes. I also download the latest version of USB Live > Installer. I formatted a fairly new 16GB USB with FAT32 and installed > SOAS on it leaving 2000Mb of persistent memory. The USB stick is a > “SanDisk Cruzer Facet 16GB”. > > > > Immediately I run into problems. When booting (on a fairly recent > Toshiba i7 laptop) it stops with “vesamenu.c32 not a com32r image”. On > pressing Tab key I do not see “Live” as an option, but it does start > with the option linux0. Sugar boots and I can use it for a few > minutes, I tried Speak and Turtle Art for instance, but within a short > time it hangs and needs a hard boot. > > > > I repeated the whole process with the 32-bit (verified) iso file and > same problem. I’ll give this problem only a few hours as that is all I > have. But I would like to know what are the requirements for a > reliable repeatable experience with SOAS, as it says on the website, > to get Sugar into Vanuatu schools. > > > > > > > > > > > > David Leeming > > Solomon Islands > > > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SOAS
Hi Ian I want to demonstrate SOAS to teachers in Vanuatu. I would like to be more useful, but actually don't have the luxury of time to research these arcane technical issues in which I am not an expert. I just want to know, is there a version of SOAS that is properly tested and known to work? I have used SOAS many times before (years ago) without any problems. Which version is stable and will boot without errors and not hang on use? Could be hardware? I will try with another flashdrive. Is 2GB of persistent storage too little/too much? David Leeming Solomon Islands -Original Message- From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Iain Brown Douglas Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2015 7:52 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] SOAS Hi David, From what you say, you already did a search for your error message. Does this Fedora forum answer cover your issue? http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=301945 I have been working with the script livecd-iso-to-disk and it works fine. I am working on SoaS Loader, here is a link to the work in progress. http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org/ Good luck, and thanks for putting time in trying to demonstrate SoaS :) Iain On Tue, 2015-07-21 at 10:51 +1100, David Leeming wrote: > Hello, > > > > I have familiarity with Sugar since working with OLPC from 2008, but I > haven’t been active in these communities for some time. I’m just > refreshing myself on current status of Sugar with a view to > introducing teachers to it in a forthcoming workshop in Vanuatu. We’ll > be using tablets as well as PCs so I have familiarised myself with > Sugarizer. I then intended to introduce the wider world of Sugar > conveniently with SOAS. > > > > So I have downloaded both the 32-bit and 64-bit iso files and verified > their hashes. I also download the latest version of USB Live > Installer. I formatted a fairly new 16GB USB with FAT32 and installed > SOAS on it leaving 2000Mb of persistent memory. The USB stick is a > “SanDisk Cruzer Facet 16GB”. > > > > Immediately I run into problems. When booting (on a fairly recent > Toshiba i7 laptop) it stops with “vesamenu.c32 not a com32r image”. On > pressing Tab key I do not see “Live” as an option, but it does start > with the option linux0. Sugar boots and I can use it for a few > minutes, I tried Speak and Turtle Art for instance, but within a short > time it hangs and needs a hard boot. > > > > I repeated the whole process with the 32-bit (verified) iso file and > same problem. I’ll give this problem only a few hours as that is all I > have. But I would like to know what are the requirements for a > reliable repeatable experience with SOAS, as it says on the website, > to get Sugar into Vanuatu schools. > > > > > > > > > > > > David Leeming > > Solomon Islands > > > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] SOAS
Hello, I have familiarity with Sugar since working with OLPC from 2008, but I haven't been active in these communities for some time. I'm just refreshing myself on current status of Sugar with a view to introducing teachers to it in a forthcoming workshop in Vanuatu. We'll be using tablets as well as PCs so I have familiarised myself with Sugarizer. I then intended to introduce the wider world of Sugar conveniently with SOAS. So I have downloaded both the 32-bit and 64-bit iso files and verified their hashes. I also download the latest version of USB Live Installer. I formatted a fairly new 16GB USB with FAT32 and installed SOAS on it leaving 2000Mb of persistent memory. The USB stick is a "SanDisk Cruzer Facet 16GB". Immediately I run into problems. When booting (on a fairly recent Toshiba i7 laptop) it stops with "vesamenu.c32 not a com32r image". On pressing Tab key I do not see "Live" as an option, but it does start with the option linux0. Sugar boots and I can use it for a few minutes, I tried Speak and Turtle Art for instance, but within a short time it hangs and needs a hard boot. I repeated the whole process with the 32-bit (verified) iso file and same problem. I'll give this problem only a few hours as that is all I have. But I would like to know what are the requirements for a reliable repeatable experience with SOAS, as it says on the website, to get Sugar into Vanuatu schools. David Leeming Solomon Islands ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > David, > > if you want to make a fair comparison, you need to take in account what was > submitted! Hmmm. Flavio and others have been trying to send patches for years. They have been ignored so they fork. At which point upstream complains about how destructive it is when down streams fork. He took a play out of Lionel's book and submitted a completed product to the list for review and analysis of what it takes to maintain a set of activities for a large deployment. > Try to submit six copies of the same codebase (instead of a patch) to any > other free software project on heart. I bet our reaction will compare *very* > favourably in friendliness. > > Seriously, stop thinking you are being treaten unfairly. You are not. This is about open source best practices. The goal is to highlight the difference a maintainer's attitude has on the tone of a discussion. > We appreciate ActivityCentral effort to work upstream, just keep it up and > give us a chance. Thank you. We will. In addition, I will continue to identify behaviors and practices which are detrimental to the project and the ecosystem. > On 18 November 2013 23:07, David Farning > wrote: >> >> Did anyone else notice a difference in how this Activity and Pippy were >> handled? >> >> With pippy the maintainers quickly responded with "Cool someone else >> wants to add value to the project. Here are my notes. Good luck." >> >> With TamTam the maintainer responded with "My way or the highway." >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:39 AM, Daniel Narvaez >> wrote: >> > Also note that we don't necessarily need to fix the code ourselves, good >> > profiling data is often acted on by lower level libraries maintainers. >> > The >> > default strategy is to pretend it's higher level code fault of course, >> > but >> > issues can't be denied or ignored when proven by numbers and test cases >> > :P >> > >> > >> > On Monday, 18 November 2013, Daniel Narvaez wrote: >> >> >> >> And we can tackle lower level stuff... It's free and open code too! :) >> >> >> >> On Monday, 18 November 2013, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: >> >>> >> >>> There are some ow level stuff, but we can solve some problems in the >> >>> activities too. >> >>> You can see the other thread I started about performance. >> >>> Also, dsd solved some of the problems related with the dynamic >> >>> bindings. >> >>> >> >>> Gonzalo >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Sebastian Silva >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> El 17/11/13 12:58, Gonzalo Odiard escribió: >> >>>> >> >>>> I hope we can solve the performance problems then you don't need use >> >>>> a >> >>>> old Sugar version, >> >>>> to avoid all these problems. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Well, I don't think it's likely you or me will be able to fix this >> >>>> one. >> >>>> It's lower level than Python >> >>>> and it looks to be by design of the lower level libraries. >> >>>> >> >>>> Note this mainly affects the XO1 which is already considered End Of >> >>>> Life. I think efforts are >> >>>> much more productive in trying to make the GNU+Sugar user experience >> >>>> excellent on >> >>>> Classmates and other netbooks. >> >>>> >> >>>> BTW, we are not the only ones affected. The entire LXDE desktop >> >>>> environment has decided >> >>>> to forego migrating to GTK3 and instead decided to port everything to >> >>>> QT. >> >>>> >> >>>> Here's a quote from the initial release of the QT file manager >> >>>> PCManFM >> >>>> [1]: >> >>>> "I, however, need to admit that working with Qt/C++ is much more >> >>>> pleasant and productive than messing with C/GObject/GTK+. >> >>>> Since GTK+ 3 breaks backward compatibility a lot and it becomes more >> >>>> memory hungry and slower, I don’t see much advantage of GTK+ now. >> >>>> GTK+ 2 is >> >>>> lighter, but it’s no longer true for GTK+ 3. Ironically, fixing all >> >>>> of the >> >>>> broken compatibility is even harder than porting to Qt in some cases >> >>>> (PCManFM IMO is one of them). >> >>>> So If someone is starting a whole new project and is thinking about >> >>>> what >> >>>> GUI toolkit to use, personally I might recommend Qt if you’re not >> >>>> targeting >> >>>> Gnome 3." >> >>>> >> >>>> [1] http://blog.lxde.org/?p=990 >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Daniel Narvaez >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Daniel Narvaez >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> David Farning >> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com > > > > > -- > Daniel Narvaez -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini
Did anyone else notice a difference in how this Activity and Pippy were handled? With pippy the maintainers quickly responded with "Cool someone else wants to add value to the project. Here are my notes. Good luck." With TamTam the maintainer responded with "My way or the highway." On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:39 AM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > Also note that we don't necessarily need to fix the code ourselves, good > profiling data is often acted on by lower level libraries maintainers. The > default strategy is to pretend it's higher level code fault of course, but > issues can't be denied or ignored when proven by numbers and test cases :P > > > On Monday, 18 November 2013, Daniel Narvaez wrote: >> >> And we can tackle lower level stuff... It's free and open code too! :) >> >> On Monday, 18 November 2013, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: >>> >>> There are some ow level stuff, but we can solve some problems in the >>> activities too. >>> You can see the other thread I started about performance. >>> Also, dsd solved some of the problems related with the dynamic bindings. >>> >>> Gonzalo >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Sebastian Silva >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> El 17/11/13 12:58, Gonzalo Odiard escribió: >>>> >>>> I hope we can solve the performance problems then you don't need use a >>>> old Sugar version, >>>> to avoid all these problems. >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, I don't think it's likely you or me will be able to fix this one. >>>> It's lower level than Python >>>> and it looks to be by design of the lower level libraries. >>>> >>>> Note this mainly affects the XO1 which is already considered End Of >>>> Life. I think efforts are >>>> much more productive in trying to make the GNU+Sugar user experience >>>> excellent on >>>> Classmates and other netbooks. >>>> >>>> BTW, we are not the only ones affected. The entire LXDE desktop >>>> environment has decided >>>> to forego migrating to GTK3 and instead decided to port everything to >>>> QT. >>>> >>>> Here's a quote from the initial release of the QT file manager PCManFM >>>> [1]: >>>> "I, however, need to admit that working with Qt/C++ is much more >>>> pleasant and productive than messing with C/GObject/GTK+. >>>> Since GTK+ 3 breaks backward compatibility a lot and it becomes more >>>> memory hungry and slower, I don’t see much advantage of GTK+ now. GTK+ 2 is >>>> lighter, but it’s no longer true for GTK+ 3. Ironically, fixing all of the >>>> broken compatibility is even harder than porting to Qt in some cases >>>> (PCManFM IMO is one of them). >>>> So If someone is starting a whole new project and is thinking about what >>>> GUI toolkit to use, personally I might recommend Qt if you’re not targeting >>>> Gnome 3." >>>> >>>> [1] http://blog.lxde.org/?p=990 >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel Narvaez >> > > > -- > Daniel Narvaez > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Flavio Danesse wrote: > I wanted to inform maintainers TamTam : > > These last few days I've added a little love to TamTamMini. > > This is an application that has been added Ceibal instruments and small > arrangements over the years, but for various reasons, changes were never > implemented in the official repository, so that at the launch of each > version, I was obliged back to modify the application to meet the > specifications of Ceibal. > > To not have to continue with that methodology, I spent several days to fix, > clean and improve implementation. > > The work done was as follows: Over the past couple of weeks, I have asked some hard questions about the future of Sugar. Lionel responded with an awesome and inspirational web activities prototype. In addition to that type of innovation, I allege that additional deployment feedback is necessary to make sure that what we offer is what deployments need. This work by Flavio exemplifies those needs. > TamTamMini separated from other Suite applications, deleting files that were > not used. > I deleted the images were not used or those that were not necessary. > Corrected, I simplified and cleaned up the code. > > As a result , the application occupies least 5 mb. > > I ported the application to gtk3 . The update process can take months and even years for large deployments. As a result critical activities must run, have a consistent look and feel, and be validated across both Gtk2 and Gtk3. > I built separate versions for xo gtk2 and gtk3 1.0 , x 1.5 , x 1.75 and one > for Magalães. Each version contains the corrections necessary for proper > operation as both gtk gtk3 for each particular machine. Deployments often run several types of hardware. As a result activities must run, have a consistent look and feel, and be validated across each type of hardware in use by the deployment. The becomes tricky as activities bypass the API provided by Sugar and interact directly with low level libraries. > All versions were tested in each of the aforementioned machines and all > functioning properly. It only remains to make some very minor repairs on > gtk3 versions . > > I wish that the maintainers of the repository with TamTam saw all this > content for the purpose of seeing whether it is possible to unify into a > single repository TamTamMini . The challenge becomes what to do when the work like this does not fit the priorities of the activity maintainer. > Link: https://github.com/fdanesse/TamTamMini > > ___ > Team mailing list > t...@lists.activitycentral.com > http://lists.activitycentral.com/listinfo/team > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Proposing backup/restore as feature for 0.102
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > One of the features we want upstream is Backup/Restore of the Journal. > > There are already a page for this feature [1] but the currently only > is implemented > the backup/restore to a connected device (pen drive), and not to/from > the school server. > > I did the port to Sugar 0.100 of the code in dextrose, (patches [2] and [3]) > but still think need more work before pushing upstream. > > Here my comments/questions: > > * Right now, the access to backup/restore functionality is available in the > menu > of the connected device (see [4]). May be should be in the Journal button, > to allow other destinations in the future, like google drive/dropbox/etc? > Or should be as a option in the control panel? (If the control panel is only > for configuration this may be not the right place) > > * The screen look alien [5]. Should be better if we add a toolbar or > should be in a modal dialog similar to the control panel/ object chooser? > > * We need a better icon. > > * The actual implementation have scripts to backup/restore from the > command line. > Then the sugar code execute the scripts, and the scripts execute tar. Is > needed > this indirection or should be better call tar from sugar? > > This implementation can be tested in our AU images [6] > > Comments? Perfect. Cleaning up the Dextrose patches and included them in mainline Sugar is an excellent way of adding value: 1. The patches represent feedback from deployments in the form of issues they felt were important enough to pay to fix. 2. The patches are often limited in their scoop due to deployment budget restraints. 3. After a clean up, they will be available to anyone using Sugar. > Gonzalo > > [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Backup_and_Restore > > [2] > https://github.com/godiard/au1b_rpms/blob/master/sugar/0001-Backup-and-Restore-to-a-mounted-device.patch > > [3] > https://github.com/godiard/au1b_rpms/blob/master/sugar/0001-Fix-backup-restore-functionality-SL-4616.patch > > [4] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Backup_usb_menu.png > > [5] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Backup_before.png > > [6] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/index.php?title=0.100/Testing > _______ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Labs Roadmap. [SD 61;79]
On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: >> >> Does anyone else want to add their thoughts on: >> > > These are all good for now but without the "safety" of the 2-3 million > default users, SL can not just be the "upstream". There are some more > fundamental questions now that we need to compete in the "open market". > > In a nutshell, whom do we target and which of _their_ needs do we cover > better than the competition? > > 1) Are we targeting (the educational department of) Governments? (ie become > OLPC-A) > 2) Are we targeting OEMs? (ie find OLPC-A replacements. Are there any?). If > yes, which needs of *theirs* do we satisfy better than the competition? > 3) Are we targeting existing hardware and if yes, only those already running > GNU/Linux? (The vast majority of hardware in and out of schools although it > can, does not run GNU/linux let along Fedora, and is very likely to stay that > way by just adding Android and iOS) > > The current html5/js course suggests "door no 3", but I have a hard time > thinking of something that runs in Windows XP-8.1, OSX 10.6-10.9, major > flavors GNU/Linux, iOS and Android 4.x all at the same time and all well! Not > even browsers, let along a UX within a browser. > > > This "open market" course also require some change in the development > philosophy. > Do we still tell people how things should be done (a la Apple - and GNOME > lately) or do we listen to their needs, experience and priorities? If yes > which ones? Kids, parents, teachers, local/support techs, funding sources, > all of the above (can we)? > Do we place Sugar next/parallel to other edu-apps or the "Sugar Desktop" is > "mandatory"? If the latter, do we integrate (fully sugarize) other apps or > stick with our native repertoire? > > That's a lot of questions with no answers and I can appreciate that these can > not be addressed or affect sugar .102 or .104 but they may need to be decided > soon for sugar .106 to materialize. > > > I also think that options 1 and 2 need a much stronger political cloud and a > political environment of yesterdays to materialize. > So let me suggest option #4 that I'm sure will "raise some eyebrows" (and > hopefully not too much more than that :-) Today handhelds have really > provided cheap and energy efficient computing and communications, and their > penetrance is increasing rapidly around the globe. > Thus, build native Sugar for Tablets/Smartphones and *SELL* it for $1.99 > through Google Play (and/or AppStore) :-o > Obviously, provide the code and a way for rooted (or jail-broken) devices to > install it for free, but people/organizations that opt for specific quality > "locked" hardware and the Sugar software stack QA'ed and supported, must > contribute (a token really) to its development. If you think of it is like > what RHEL is doing and actually much cheaper. Or what OLPC was doing paying > developers to develop software for the hardware that was *selling* to users. > > I can appreciate that this "open market approach" is a major shift in the > culture (but not the reality) of the community from "educational software > politics and policies" to "proven educational software quality". But isn't > quality what we primarily want from educational software? My experience has been that "educational software politics and policies" have been been the dominate influence within Sugar Labs. If this is the role that Sugar Labs wants to maintain that is fine, as long as they open the door to other organizations focusing on "proven educational software quality." Both approaches have challenges. If Sugar Labs is willing to assume responsibility for quality education software, they will have to adopt a culture and processes which encourage feedback (even negative feedback) and ways to implement solutions to that feedback. Otherwise they are going to have to accept the lose of control if other organizations such as AC provide that service. As the bottom line; the Association is good at sales and marketing, Sugar Labs is good and vision and inspiration, and Activity Central is good at support and implementation. The most likely way to success is to figure out how these three, and any other organizations, can work together. Rather than focus on grudges. > Although there is plenty of room for improvement, Sugar has this quality and > an installed base to support this claim, and should not be afraid of this > course. > A strong market presence and user endorsement is actually much better than > any PR event or political/academic endorsement
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Labs Roadmap.
Does anyone else want to add their thoughts on: 1. What is the future availability of XO hardware? What are the alternatives? What hardware choices are deployments going to make for their next and future rounds of purchasing. 2. How effectively does Sugar run on the available hardware options? What will it take to bring Sugar up to a deployment level quality on this hardware? 3. What resources are required to make this happen? Again, this might seem hand-wavy. An shared understanding of where the project going is important for creating a sense of shared value. It also helps us as individuals chose our work so that it has the most impact on the ecosystem and the project. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: >> On 8 November 2013 13:10, Walter Bender wrote: >>> >>> Classmate and Classmate variants are already quick wide spread in some >>> deployments, e.g., Argentina >> >> >> I wonder if we should try to get some classmates in the hands of Sugar Labs >> community members. It seems like the most solid hardware option we have for >> deployments at the moment. > > I'll look into it. > >> >>> >>> > * Chromebook >>> >>> At least one deployment is looking at this option. >>> >> >> Looking forward to know how this goes :) >> >> >>> >>> > >>> > Another couple more for community evaluation (evaluation, testing, >>> > marketing) >>> > >>> > * Linux compatible ARM boards >>> > * Virtualbox >>> >>> SoaS is our current offering for Virtualbox (As you pointed out in a >>> previous thread, it is a two-step process to install. In my >>> experience, that is 1 too many for our audience. Something we may be >>> able to address by approaching some of the VM suppliers.) >> >> >> We are crossing threads here but... I think it would be great to have a >> single installer but (without having tried it!) the current installation >> process doesn't seem terribly bad. I feel that documenting it better and >> turning it into the first thing you see when you click "downloads" could go >> a long way. >> >>> >>> > - R&D resources >>> > >>> > I feel balance with addressing existing deployments needs is not a >>> > question >>> > Sugar Labs can or should answer. We should encourage and support both, >>> > it's >>> > up to companies and volunteers involved to see how much of either they >>> > could >>> > or should be doing. >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> That said, the discipline you have imparted on us regarding unit tests >>> is a step that the community can take. Maybe one of our priorities >>> should be to dust off some basic automatic testing for activities as >>> well. OLPC used to have such a system in place. >>> >> >> Of course I'm all for more unit tests :) >> >> The buildbot is already trying to start and close activities on every build >> but it would be great if people wrote more comprehensive unit and UI tests, >> similarly to what we are doing in the shell. Get them to run into >> sugar-build/buildbot would be trivial... > > Maybe we can work on an example for an activity and then propagate (via GCI). > >> >>> >>> > >>> > We are not a company, we have no resources to allocate. But there are >>> > lots >>> > of concrete things we can do to encourage people to allocate them. I'm >>> > really glad to see that Activity Central figured out how to devote >>> > resources >>> > to R&D. I hope you will be able to keep it up and more people will >>> > follow >>> > that example. We can leverage initiatives like Google Code. We can try >>> > crowd >>> > funding. We can apply for grants, as we have been doing sometimes >>> > successfully. We can keep lowering the barriers for volunteers, we have >>> > been >>> > making great progress on that. We can finally solve the un-marketability >>> > issue, attracting attention and energies and hence hopefully >>> > contributions. >>> >>> Google Code In starts on Nov. 18. But we can keep adding tasks over >>> the course of the contest. Please don't be shy about suggesting tasks. >>> And we could also use a few more mentors. >> >> >> I don't think I'm able to commit to be an "official" mentor but, as usual, >> I'll be answering as many questions as possible in irc/mailing lists when I >> am around. >> >> Sort of thinking to puth GConf -> GSettings on the list... And Wayland >> support but that's probably too complex for GCI. > > GConf to GSettings is definitely GCI caliber introductory task worthy. > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Role of Sugar Labs in the ecosystem.
Sorry, I forgot about that list. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > IAEP! :) > > > On 9 November 2013 00:45, David Farning > wrote: >> >> In conjunction the with Sugar Roadmap thread I would like to bring up >> another rather strategic issue. Namely, what role does Sugar Labs want >> to play in the ecosystem. >> >> The question become important because at this point Sugar Labs is the >> closest thing the ecosystem has to a gravitational center. These >> hand-wavy strategy questions are real questions which users and >> deployers are going to ask before they commit to Sugar. >> >> Is Sugar Labs 'just a free software project' or is it the center and >> leaders of a global educational project? or somewhere in between? >> >> Either is fine as long as the behavior is predictable and consistent. >> >> -- >> David Farning >> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > -- > Daniel Narvaez -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Role of Sugar Labs in the ecosystem.
In conjunction the with Sugar Roadmap thread I would like to bring up another rather strategic issue. Namely, what role does Sugar Labs want to play in the ecosystem. The question become important because at this point Sugar Labs is the closest thing the ecosystem has to a gravitational center. These hand-wavy strategy questions are real questions which users and deployers are going to ask before they commit to Sugar. Is Sugar Labs 'just a free software project' or is it the center and leaders of a global educational project? or somewhere in between? Either is fine as long as the behavior is predictable and consistent. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] different perspectives
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Sean DALY wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:56 AM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> The highest rate of progress happens when the parties focus on getting >> ahead of the other guys rather then when they focus on holding others >> back. Progress tends to stop when one party gets so far ahead that it >> is not worth it for others to compete. > > > > I don't disagree, but I would qualify that: The highest rate of progress > happens when the parties focus on getting ahead of the other guys by > changing the game. This is why I maintain that GNU/Linux distros considering > each other as competitors is pointless at the end of the day when 92% or so > of the desktop/laptop market is running MS Windows. Agreed. That is one of the reasons Google is maintaining such a tight hold on Android. They are trying to maintain the critical mass for the OS by preventing fragmentation. The downside becomes the somewhat extreme, by free software standards, they are using to maintain control of the project. > Sean > > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)
m Peter and others who preferred SoaS. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> [1] >>> http://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/chart/average-website-conversion-rates-industry# >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Daniel Narvaez >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Do we really need a single installer? I mean I see it would be ideal but >>>> it feels like it might be tricky licensing, implementation and maintenance >>>> wise. >>>> >>>> From what I understand from Thomas, after installing VirtualBox, it's >>>> just downloading and clicking on an icon (I should really try it but I'm on >>>> a bad connection these days). It might not be perfect but it doesn't really >>>> sound bad, what is stopping us marketing Sugar this way really? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is >>>>> multi-platform (& what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac) >>>>> >>>>> The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free >>>>> redistribution for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a >>>>> single >>>>> installer, ideal for our needs. >>>>> >>>>> In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing >>>>> partnership under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> 1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox >>>>> 2. https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox >>>>> 2. https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Gonzalo Odiard >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> At least the virtualbox looks doable and a good way to show Sugar. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gonzalo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Narvaez >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need >>>>>>>> to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and >>>>>>>> journalists. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can think of a couple of approaches >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of >>>>>>> those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. >>>>>>> Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process >>>>>>> would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 Install virtualbox >>>>>>> 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up >>>>>>> the appliance). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thoughts? Other ideas? If we can agree on one or two concrete, >>>>>>> realistic approaches, I think we can at least attempt to get them done >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> 3.102. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Daniel Narvaez >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ___ >>>>>>> Marketing mailing list >>>>>>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel Narvaez >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel Narvaez >> > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Sean DALY wrote: > David - what I meant was, no strategic partnership between the distros. > Ubuntu wouldn't pose so many difficulties if M. Shuttleworth/Canonical got > behind Sugar for example. In my conversations with Shuttleworth and Redhat they were both pretty upset that they were forced to bid against each other to be part of the OLPC project. Whoever donated more got to be part of the project the other was ignored. That, on top of Ubuntu's screw ups in the education sector ( Canoncial, tried to assume too much control over the community lead Edubuntu project) have left education, and sugar in particular, struggling at Ubuntu. > Sean > > > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:46 AM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Sean DALY wrote: >> > I'm sorry Sebastian, yes I should have been more clear about which >> > Sebastian >> > :-) >> > >> > At the time, Sugar was perceived as being only available on OLPC XOs, so >> > our >> > effort was designed to show that it was available for other platforms. >> > Indeed, our claim has always been that it was hardware-agnostic (on Mac >> > using virtualization), cf. our press releases (sl.o/press). And, SoaS as >> > a >> > marketing concept was meant to be distro-agnostic too (SuSE...), a >> > position >> > fought tooth and nail by the Fedorans by the way. >> > >> > Pre-tablets, when small netbooks sales were exploding, Windows was >> > dominant >> > on PCs but ran poorly or not at all on netbooks and moreover there was >> > an >> > installation barrier for Windows on GNU/Linux netbooks. We were >> > interested >> > in reaching the 92% or so of teachers using Windows and widening Sugar >> > availability on machines with pre-installed GNU/Linux (all 2% or so of >> > them). Microsoft and Intel worked quickly to block GNU/Linux netbooks by >> > pressuring OEMs to build faster machines, then tablets arrived and >> > killed >> > off netbooks. >> > >> > It's unfortunate that Sugar was not fully embraced by the GNU/Linux >> > distros >> > who missed a great opportunity in the education market where Microsoft >> > had >> > and has weaknesses, but that has been a symptom of free software >> > projects >> > struggling with strategic initiatives while concentrating on technical >> > aspects. >> >> How does Sugar on Ubuntu (DXU) and Sugar on Tablets (DX experimental) >> affect this equation for Sugar Labs? >> >> > Dismal marketing has contributed to dismal desktop market share >> > (Microsoft's well-documented maneuvers played a role too of course). >> > >> > Installation: As Peter has mentioned, SoaS can be used for installation >> > on a >> > target PC, this is documented in the wiki. >> > >> > Concerning translations, language selection was available in at least >> > several versions of SoaS, I remember switching French and US locale and >> > keyboard demoing SoaS at an Educatec-Educatice convention in Paris. I >> > have >> > no doubt that solutions are possible, but do remember that Peter has >> > been >> > continuing SoaS work singlehandedly for some time now. >> > >> > Looking forward, I see a dual challenge for Sugar Labs: supporting the >> > XO >> > installed base (including hopefully keeping XO-4 availability alive), >> > and >> > transitioning to the wild new world of handheld devices. >> > >> > Sean >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Sebastian Silva >> > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> El 06/11/13 17:35, Sean DALY escribió: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS! >> >> >> >> >> >> That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and >> >> Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with >> >> unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a >> >> Fedora >> >> hosted minisite (the "home" of SoaS), none of which was done with any >> >> consultation of the SL marketing team. >> >> >> >> Please try to include last names, you mean Sebastian Dzallas,
Re: [Sugar-devel] different perspectives
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > Dear Community, > > As I was listening to the interviews of some of the OLPC SF Summit > attendees, I was amazed at the richness of diversity in perspectives. > In spite of being a part of this community since July 2007, and trying > to keep up with all that is OLPC and Sugar, these interviews threw me > off a bit. > > The videos are uploading as I write this. They'll be available at > https://www.youtube.com/user/olpcsf/videos soon. Bill Stelzer, who > usually interviews and runs the camera asks people a handful of > questions. So, here's a little community exercise. Why not ask you all > the same? > > 1) What brought you into the OLPC and/or Sugar project(s)? After leaving the military, I was searching for something meaningful to do with my life. Over the years, I have become frustrated the the ability for individuals and groups to control others, often for their own benefit, by restricting their access to education and communication. Precursors to the Arab Spring emerged as dissidents used technologies such as cell phones, texting, and email to bypass normal communication restrictions in their region. This brought me to the conclusion that the intersection of rapidly falling hardware prices, rapidly increasing availability of connectivity, and open source software had the potential to be as culturally disruptive as the printing press was in the 1400 and 1500. Somewhere across the line I came across the OLPC project. While the focus of the project was different then my personal goals, the methods, and likely the effects, of OLPC plus Sugar seemed remarkably similar to my personal goals. > 2) What keeps you going in the OLPC and/or Sugar project(s)? While frustrating, the project is nudging the world in the right direction. > 3) What are the challenges you face in the OLPC and/or Sugar project(s)? The major challenge ( albeit, on a rather abstract level ) is how the ecosystem deals with the issues of Control, Credit, and Money. > 4) What would you change/do differently so OLPC and/or Sugar > project(s) could do better? Identify and attempt to fix bottlenecks in the ecosystem which limit the effectiveness of deployments: 1. Create a deployment sponsored distribution, Dextrose, to close the feedback loop between developers and deployment. The Dextrose sustainability model ensures that loop is closed. Fixes and features which go into dextrose are valuable enough that some deployment somewhere is willing to pay for it. 1a. Establish the company-community arms race. While a bit dated there is an excellent talk at https://fossbazaar.org/content/bdale-garbee-collaborating-successfully-large-corporations/ about company and community relationship. Bdale uses the interesting analogy of the arms race to describe the relationship between companies and communities in Open Source development. The Company is constantly trying to add features and fixes which provide them competitive advantage in the market place. The Community is constantly innovating and unwinding the companies competitive advantage and making it available to the community. The highest rate of progress happens when the parties focus on getting ahead of the other guys rather then when they focus on holding others back. Progress tends to stop when one party gets so far ahead that it is not worth it for others to compete. 2. Establish a effective community-company project, XSCE, to prove that there is nothing inherent in the OLPC/Sugar space which prevents effective community-relationships. Over the last year, we have been following two core principles to build a effective school server community. Welcome people with overlapping but non-identical goals. Build on one another's strength while minimizing the effects of our own weakness. 3. Establish a 'facilitators network' to improve communication between parents, teachers, deployers, and developers. ( Work in Progress) 4. Build on lessons learned in 1,2, and 3 to establish a mutually beneficial relationship between AC and Sugar Labs. Please note, these are intentionally very specific area in which I plan on investing my time and money:) > Reply-all in your answers. > > cheers, > Sameer > -- > Sameer Verma, Ph.D. > Professor, Information Systems > San Francisco State University > http://verma.sfsu.edu/ > http://commons.sfsu.edu/ > http://olpcsf.org/ > http://olpcjamaica.org.jm/ > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Sugar Labs Roadmap.
Daniel recently started a related thread called Tech Roadmap and Sean started a marketing thread related to naming. To reduce confusion I thought that it might be valuable to take a step back and look at an overall Sugar Labs Roadmap. After reviewing the various threads over the last couple of days it seemed that one of the sources of communication has been the 'level' of communication. IE Ecosystem strategy, deployment/organizational strategy, or technical implementation. This has resulted in people, including me, talking past each other rather than to each other. As the ecosystem adopts to the reduced roll of the Association, at least on the laptop side of the project, this might be a good time to re-evaluate the role of Sugar Labs and it's relationships. The three immediate questions appear to be: 1. What is the future availability of XO hardware? What are the alternatives? What hardware choices are deployments going to make for their next and future rounds of purchasing. 2. How effectively does Sugar run on the available hardware options? What will it take to bring Sugar up to a deployment level quality on this hardware? 3. What resources are required to make this happen? In general there seem to be three branches of this decision tree. XOs, commodity laptops and tablets. After considering the hardware issue, a second round of questions is how do we get there? This implies a balance between supporting existing deployments and the R&D necessary to make the next step possible. This balance question implies gathering knowledge of existing deployments and their needs. This level of strategy might seem rather hand-wavy or business like :( But, it is helpful for everyone to have an understanding of were the project is going, how we are planning on getting there, and how one's own interest and abilities can add value. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > Re library versions, that reminds of a point I should have put in my list... > > I think now that the gobject introspection migration is over upstream can > become more conservative about library versions. That should help both > distributors and developers. We are already going in that direction really. > If we add Webkit1 compatibility as discussed, I think 0.102 might have > pretty much the same dependencies of 0.98. The only exception is libxkb if I > remember correctly, for which introspection was really broken. In addition to dependencies there can be issues with versions of dependencies. Within the next couple of week we should see these fixes flow upstream. So we can start talking about concrete issues and examples rather than abstract notions. I think that will help clarify the discussion. AC's challenge was to quietly get a proof of concept in place which adds value to deployments before suggesting making changes to upstream. Now, AC has to clean up and abstract the proof of concept work to prepare it for acceptance upstream. > On Thursday, 7 November 2013, David Farning wrote: >> >> I agree :) >> >> Right now, we are sitting back and seeing what roll OLPC-Australia is >> going to play in the ecosystem. The One Education distribution out of >> Australia is a combination of Dextrose, Sugar .100 and some custom >> patches. My semi-informed guess is that Walter and Rangan ( >> https://www.laptop.org.au/about ) are going to position One Education >> as the successor to OLPC-OS. I hope that we will learn more at about >> their plans at basecamp. ( http://olpcbasecamp.blogspot.com/ ) This >> would take care or the leading edge on Fedora. >> >> On the Ubuntu side we have a bit of a challenge balancing bleeding >> edge and stability. Sugar and Fedora tend to run a bit ahead of Debian >> and Ubuntu in library versions. It take a significant amount of effort >> to backport the necessary libraries to Ubuntu LTS. For this release we >> agreed that the proper balance of innovation and stability was Sugar >> .98 on Ubuntu 12.04. The next decision point will be which version of >> Sugar to use for the 14.04 release due in the second quarter of 2014. >> >> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Daniel Narvaez >> wrote: >> > Cool stuff. >> > >> > As for Fedora it would be great to have builds with the latest sugar >> > (stable >> > and unstable) releases. I'm not saying to ship those to deployments of >> > course, but they would help upstream development, marketing and >> > testing... >> > And they would help AC to make the transition to the next sugar release >> > smoother. >> > >> > On 7 November 2013 02:05, David Farning >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Please see the link at the bottom left of http://dextrose.ac/platform/ >> >> for the Sugar on Ubuntu images which Activity Central and Plan Ceibal >> >> are jointly developing. >> >> >> >> For stability it is based on Ubuntu 12.04 and Sugar .98. The testing >> >> is done on classmate to meet Plan Ceibal's specifications. I should >> >> work equally well on any machine that boots Ubuntu. >> >> >> >> It is currently is small scale testing by a couple hundred teachers. >> >> When the image meets Ceibal's quality standards the pilot will scale >> >> to approximately 10,000 units for wider testing. >> >> >> >> For more information, I have CC Anish Mangal, the project owner (agile >> >> speak) and Ruben Rodriguez the lead developer. Ruben has the strongest >> >> back ground on the technical issues involved in the port. Anish has >> >> the deepest understanding of timelines and objectives. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Daniel Narvaez >> >> wrote: >> >> > On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I >> >> >> > don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. >> >> >> >> >> >> Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box. In Uruguay for >> >> >> example. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro? >> >> > >> >> > ___ >> >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> >> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> David Farning >> >> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Daniel Narvaez >> >> >> >> -- >> David Farning >> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com > > > > -- > Daniel Narvaez > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Server-devel] [XSCE] Re: XSCE weekly voice call, 2PM NYC Time Thursday
A quick note CCed to Sugar-devel An interesting thing the XS community is doing is holding irc meetings on Tuesday and voice meetings on Thursdays. There are two mailing lists, a public list and and internal list. Different people prefer different styles of communication. On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Adam Holt wrote: > Missed ya Jon: > > Minutes were cleaned up @ > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6QtzLb6e58YKWqMf_junux2XyBRLFm31un8YLcYslg > but let us know what's missing! > > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Jon Nettleton > wrote: >> >> Unfortunately I can't make it tonight guys. I will review the >> minutes/call notes and make it to the next one. If there are questions on >> the call that you need my input on try IRC. I will kind of be online but >> can't be on a voice call as I will be on another one. >> >> -Jon >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Adam Holt wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Adam Holt wrote: >>>> >>>> Some of us will join from Malaysia next week (1AM) but obviously some >>>> will not ;) >>> >>> >>> Correction: 3AM Malaysia Time! In any case, 2PM NYC Time every Thursday. >>> >>>> >>>> Agenda/Minutes: >>>> >>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6QtzLb6e58YKWqMf_junux2XyBRLFm31un8YLcYslg >>>> >>>> George is back and 0.5 is coming down to the wire! Thanks again for >>>> sending yr Skype username or phone number in advance if you can join in >>>> just >>>> under 5 hrs from now (2PM NYC Time). >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ http://unleashkids.org ! >> >> >> >> ___ >> Server-devel mailing list >> server-de...@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel >> >> >> -- >> Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ http://unleashkids.org ! > > > ___ > Server-devel mailing list > server-de...@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0[ Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 43]
In hind sight... The gtk2 -> gtk3 would have benefited from a major version change. At the time, I didn't realized it. From a deployment perspective the shift represented a major change. In addition to the base software, all of the necessary activities needed to be migrated, QAed, and verified if the deployment wanted a consistent user experience across all activities. >From a deployment perspective, it might be valuable to denote the next major API change/upgrade (web activities) with a major version bump to clearly indicate to users and deployers that web actives are complete in version X. FWIW, this is a departure, learned the hard way, from my preference for time base number as used by Ubuntu. On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Sean DALY wrote: > thanks for that Gonzalo > > the key version number criteria for marketing is not that it's a formal > system, it's to simplify a story for people who have little or more likely > no idea what Sugar is. The story we are developing is: we are meeting the > challenge of handheld devices while supporting our 3 million Learners. This > story will be well-served by a v2 or v3 number, but I'm afraid linking the > year will box us into a timeframe when what we need (marketing standpoint > again) is a version number on a flexible timetable according to > circumstances. > > F/LOSS projects are not a marketing reference for me, with very few > exceptions they are not good at it at all. My references are the iPod, > Nespresso, Amazon, Coca-Cola, etc. > > Sean > > > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:47 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: >> >> Sean, >> Usually, we are not doing big changes, but incremental changes. >> We are closer to the reality of the linux kernel, where the change to 3.0 >> was not related to changes itself, but to the numbers where not >> comfortable, >> and they are planning release version 4.0 by the same reason in one year. >> >> What you think about using years as versions (2013.1 2013.2 or 13.1, 13.2) >> as a way to try incentive to the deployments and the final users >> to be updated? >> >> Gonzalo >> >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Sean DALY wrote: >> > cc'ing marketing for... a marketing issue >> > >> > Nope, the GTK3 change just passed under the radar. As stated previously >> > I >> > lobbied for a v1 six years ago which is why we are ready for a v2. Or >> > even a >> > v3. >> > >> > For building a PR story I can work with v2 or v3, just not v1. >> > >> > The issue with 2.2, 2.4 is that from a marketing perspective we get >> > boxed >> > into a major number step timeframe irrespective of marketing needs. A >> > major >> > number change should ideally happen when it's ready, or when we need to >> > communicate a major shift. I still think associating the existing >> > numbering >> > behind a major number (e.g. 2.102) keeps continuity. PR will communicate >> > the >> > major number, probably with a name. And not an unmarketable obscure >> > name, >> > either. >> > >> > Sean >> > Sugar Labs Marketing Coordinator >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Daniel Narvaez >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Hmm I suppose the 1.x -> 2.x switch would have not made sense to >> >> marketing >> >> because there wasn't major user visible changes? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> For sugar developers their is certainly a continuation in development >> >>> and >> >>> the current numbering makes a lot of sense. >> >>> However, looking from outside 0.102 should be Sugar 3.x where 1.x is >> >>> the >> >>> original, 2.x is the Gtk3/introspection move and now the html5/jc >> >>> (online/ultrabook/tablet) version. >> >>> If you actually consider 0.100 as 3.0 then it can go 3.2, 3.4 etc to >> >>> keep >> >>> up with current numbering. >> >>> Should make marketing happy with minimal disruption. >> >>> >> >>> ___ >> >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >> >>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Daniel Narvaez >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > Marketing mailing list >> > market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >> > > > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Sean DALY wrote: > I'm sorry Sebastian, yes I should have been more clear about which Sebastian > :-) > > At the time, Sugar was perceived as being only available on OLPC XOs, so our > effort was designed to show that it was available for other platforms. > Indeed, our claim has always been that it was hardware-agnostic (on Mac > using virtualization), cf. our press releases (sl.o/press). And, SoaS as a > marketing concept was meant to be distro-agnostic too (SuSE...), a position > fought tooth and nail by the Fedorans by the way. > > Pre-tablets, when small netbooks sales were exploding, Windows was dominant > on PCs but ran poorly or not at all on netbooks and moreover there was an > installation barrier for Windows on GNU/Linux netbooks. We were interested > in reaching the 92% or so of teachers using Windows and widening Sugar > availability on machines with pre-installed GNU/Linux (all 2% or so of > them). Microsoft and Intel worked quickly to block GNU/Linux netbooks by > pressuring OEMs to build faster machines, then tablets arrived and killed > off netbooks. > > It's unfortunate that Sugar was not fully embraced by the GNU/Linux distros > who missed a great opportunity in the education market where Microsoft had > and has weaknesses, but that has been a symptom of free software projects > struggling with strategic initiatives while concentrating on technical > aspects. How does Sugar on Ubuntu (DXU) and Sugar on Tablets (DX experimental) affect this equation for Sugar Labs? > Dismal marketing has contributed to dismal desktop market share > (Microsoft's well-documented maneuvers played a role too of course). > > Installation: As Peter has mentioned, SoaS can be used for installation on a > target PC, this is documented in the wiki. > > Concerning translations, language selection was available in at least > several versions of SoaS, I remember switching French and US locale and > keyboard demoing SoaS at an Educatec-Educatice convention in Paris. I have > no doubt that solutions are possible, but do remember that Peter has been > continuing SoaS work singlehandedly for some time now. > > Looking forward, I see a dual challenge for Sugar Labs: supporting the XO > installed base (including hopefully keeping XO-4 availability alive), and > transitioning to the wild new world of handheld devices. > > Sean > > > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Sebastian Silva > wrote: >> >> >> El 06/11/13 17:35, Sean DALY escribió: >> >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson >> wrote: >>> >>> But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS! >> >> >> That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and >> Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with >> unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a Fedora >> hosted minisite (the "home" of SoaS), none of which was done with any >> consultation of the SL marketing team. >> >> Please try to include last names, you mean Sebastian Dzallas, original >> developer of "Sugar On A Stick". >> >> Now that we're on the topic... the concept "Sugar On A Stick" has several >> problems. >> >> 1.- It suggests it's the only possible Sugar OS on a USB. >> 2.- It suggests it's not a serious OS to be installed on a computer. >> 3.- It's impossible to translate. >> 4.- It suggests it's not regular GNU/Linux, with availability of the >> Myriad other GNU/Linux educational tools. >> >> Regards, >> Sebastian Silva >> R+D SomosAzúcar >> Sugar Labs Perú >> @icarito >> > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Tech roadmap
I agree :) Right now, we are sitting back and seeing what roll OLPC-Australia is going to play in the ecosystem. The One Education distribution out of Australia is a combination of Dextrose, Sugar .100 and some custom patches. My semi-informed guess is that Walter and Rangan ( https://www.laptop.org.au/about ) are going to position One Education as the successor to OLPC-OS. I hope that we will learn more at about their plans at basecamp. ( http://olpcbasecamp.blogspot.com/ ) This would take care or the leading edge on Fedora. On the Ubuntu side we have a bit of a challenge balancing bleeding edge and stability. Sugar and Fedora tend to run a bit ahead of Debian and Ubuntu in library versions. It take a significant amount of effort to backport the necessary libraries to Ubuntu LTS. For this release we agreed that the proper balance of innovation and stability was Sugar .98 on Ubuntu 12.04. The next decision point will be which version of Sugar to use for the 14.04 release due in the second quarter of 2014. On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > Cool stuff. > > As for Fedora it would be great to have builds with the latest sugar (stable > and unstable) releases. I'm not saying to ship those to deployments of > course, but they would help upstream development, marketing and testing... > And they would help AC to make the transition to the next sugar release > smoother. > > On 7 November 2013 02:05, David Farning > wrote: >> >> Please see the link at the bottom left of http://dextrose.ac/platform/ >> for the Sugar on Ubuntu images which Activity Central and Plan Ceibal >> are jointly developing. >> >> For stability it is based on Ubuntu 12.04 and Sugar .98. The testing >> is done on classmate to meet Plan Ceibal's specifications. I should >> work equally well on any machine that boots Ubuntu. >> >> It is currently is small scale testing by a couple hundred teachers. >> When the image meets Ceibal's quality standards the pilot will scale >> to approximately 10,000 units for wider testing. >> >> For more information, I have CC Anish Mangal, the project owner (agile >> speak) and Ruben Rodriguez the lead developer. Ruben has the strongest >> back ground on the technical issues involved in the port. Anish has >> the deepest understanding of timelines and objectives. >> >> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Daniel Narvaez >> wrote: >> > On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I >> >> > don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. >> >> >> >> Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box. In Uruguay for >> >> example. >> > >> > >> > You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro? >> > >> > ___ >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> David Farning >> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com > > > > > -- > Daniel Narvaez -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Tech roadmap
Please see the link at the bottom left of http://dextrose.ac/platform/ for the Sugar on Ubuntu images which Activity Central and Plan Ceibal are jointly developing. For stability it is based on Ubuntu 12.04 and Sugar .98. The testing is done on classmate to meet Plan Ceibal's specifications. I should work equally well on any machine that boots Ubuntu. It is currently is small scale testing by a couple hundred teachers. When the image meets Ceibal's quality standards the pilot will scale to approximately 10,000 units for wider testing. For more information, I have CC Anish Mangal, the project owner (agile speak) and Ruben Rodriguez the lead developer. Ruben has the strongest back ground on the technical issues involved in the port. Anish has the deepest understanding of timelines and objectives. On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones wrote: >> >> >> > Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I >> > don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. >> >> Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box. In Uruguay for >> example. > > > You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro? > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Have we achieved consensus among activite Sugar developers?
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 4:59 PM, James Cameron wrote: > On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 10:28:35AM -0500, David Farning wrote: >> Have we achieved general consensus that the three phase approach I >> proposed earlier this week has the potential for establishing a >> mutually beneficial relationship while progressively rebuilding trust >> on both sides? > > I got lost in the discussion again; I couldn't see how your three > phase approach answered Walter's question about your perception that > Sugar Labs is not acting transparently. ;-) The big idea is that open sources projects thrive when they create conditions and cultures where people with overlapping yet non-identical goals can come together collaborate around a common goal. Sugar Labs has found itself in a position where there is a high degree of conformity. This tends to create an echo chamber where similar opinions are respected and encouraged. That can be effective at building passion and energy, but it tends to crowd out dissenting opinions and marginalize the people who hold those opinions. These people can be the most productive members of the community in their particular areas of interest. The transparency challenge is that many potentially valuable members leave in frustration when their voices are not heard. Conversations escalate from civil to uncivil. This reduces the rate of development, quality of support, and potentially the future viability Sugar. Attempting to prove that via examples would create personal feuds which are unproductive at all levels. Instead, I would ask you to talk to people in the ecosystem, outside of the current core sugar developers, and gather feedback about what they think works and doesn't work. Instead, I would like the opportunity to prove the premise by showing the theory in action. My assumption is that if that we can work together on a series of tasks which require increasing amounts of acceptance for divergent opinions, we can identify and reduce the sources of the underlying tension. 1. Phase one requires that we work together on a relatively straight forward project. HTML5+JS is the current focus of Sugar Labs. While it is not AC's primary focus, we consider it a key strategic project. 2. Phase two will be a bit more complicated as we ask various developer to publicly agree on various core priorities for the next release. This related directly to manq's post about being focused on individual priorities. Without an understanding of everyone's priorities and the value they bring to the project, it can be easy to feel ignored, or even attacked, when one's own priorities are ignored. 3. Phase three -- Dig into the balance between stable and leading edge. Historically, this has been a touchy subject because of the high degree of interest in innovation by key Sugar Labs members. However, large deployments consider stability and LTS very important. My assumption is that if Sugar Labs and Activity Central can set an example for working together, other marginalized parties with rejoin the project. David > Regarding your need to rebuild trust on both sides; perhaps a > quantitative approach; you could list the areas and extents in which > Sugar Labs trusts Activity Central and Activity Central trusts Sugar > Labs now. e.g. feature discussion, design review, patch review, go > no-go release decisions, support for released code. Gain general > agreement. Then do a diff against past and future. But this begins > to sound like a developers' social contract, and not specific to > Activity Central. > > My gut feel is that Sugar Labs treats all technical contributions > fairly, regardless of funding source, and that promising funding gains > no advantage except better phrasing of the responses; 'cause the > funding bias is better understood to be present. > > However, looking carefully at your three phase approach on 29th > October: > > 1. you are funding work; > > fine by me, thanks, expect some responses to these developers to be > coloured by the awareness of funding, > > 2. you want more discussion about features and whether features as > built are ready for release; > > fine by me, this is no material change to current process, > > 3. you speculate that there is a conflict between supporting existing > deployments and developing the next releases; > > this doesn't fit with me, the two workloads are very different vectors > in the phase space of possible work, and Sugar Labs primarily operates > on only one of the vectors, solving support problems in the next > release. > > -- > > Disclosure statement: the author provides consulting to OLPCA, and > OLPCA does benefit from Sugar Labs releases. The author receives no > direct funding from Sugar Labs or any deployment. > > -- > Jame
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 3:59 PM, James Cameron wrote: > p.s. it is good that you are being transparent with your decisions, > because that gives you a chance to have them publically reviewed. ;-) > > On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 12:04:11PM -0500, David Farning wrote: >> Thanks for the update. Currently, AC does not have the credibility to >> participate in the design process. > > To not participate in the design process is entirely your decision, > but, if you'll accept my advice, your reasoning for the decision is > flawed! > > Credibility is not what you think it is. In this context credibility is a combination of trustworthiness and expertise... which is individually earned from one's peers. At this point I don't expect that either I nor any of the developers from Activity have established credibility within Sugar Labs. Expertise is pretty straight forward, does the individual have a history of making good decisions about the subject at hand? Trustworthiness is also pretty straight forward: 1. Does the individual have a track record of, saying what they will do and then doing what they said they would do? 2. Is the individual able to fairly balance their own interests, the interests of the project, and the interests of the ecosystem? 3. Is the individual able to bring out the best in themselves and other around them though effective work and communication? Credibility take time and effort to earn. > For technical design and feature specification in the Sugar Labs > community, organisational credibility is not required. It is the > technical input that is valuable. Sugar Labs has received valuable > input from a range of credibilities, including bright young children, > teachers of children, and crusty old engineers like me. > > And if you do think organisational credibility is required, that begs > the question of why ... is it that you expect your technical input to > be swayed by your credibility? Surely not. > > Don't hold the community to ransom for your technical input, just give > it, give it early, and give it often. > >> Let's give it 2-3 months for AC's R&D team learning how to work >> effectively with the HTML5+JS team at SL. > > Use this phase of the process as an opportunity for you and your > people to practice communicating with other developers in the > community; and measure the effort in the design process, not the > achievements. > >> In the first couple of weeks, I expect that this will mostly involve >> creating web activities to build familiarity the the technologies >> and API's. The return value to Sugar Labs will be testing and >> feedback about the current web activities framework. > > I'm worried that it is quite late in the life of the web activities > framework for this feedback, but better late than never. > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
Thanks for the update. Currently, AC does not have the credibility to participate in the design process. Let's give it 2-3 months for AC's R&D team learning how to work effectively with the HTML5+JS team at SL. In the first couple of weeks, I expect that this will mostly involve creating web activities to build familiarity the the technologies and API's. The return value to Sugar Labs will be testing and feedback about the current web activities framework. On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > On 29 October 2013 20:29, David Farning > wrote: >> >> Phase two -- Let's look at lessons learned from other projects. We can >> focus on the road map and product specification. From my experience, >> these two piece can provide an anchor for the rest of the project: >> 1. The act of sitting down and hashing out the roadmap and project >> specification causes everyone to sit back and assess their individual >> priorities and goals and how they fit into the project as a whole. >> 2. The act of deciding which items are above the line and which are >> below the line, which are targeted for this release and which are >> pushed to a future release, help find the balance between what is >> possible some day and what is probable in X months of work with >> existing resources. >> 3. Sitting back and preparing for a release forces us to asses what is >> good enough for release what is not. It is a good feedback loop. >> 4. Finally, after a successful release everyone can sit back bask is >> the satisfaction that maybe we didn't save the world... but we make >> enough progress that it is worth getting up again tomorrow and doing >> it all again. > > > Hi David, > > I just started a thread about 0.102 focus and features. If you want to get > involved defining the upstream roadmap there is your chance! For 0.100 we > kept that very very simple, a short list of new features basically. But if > you want to contribute with a product specification I think that would be > awesome. > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Have we achieved consensus among activite Sugar developers?
Have we achieved general consensus that the three phase approach I proposed earlier this week has the potential for establishing a mutually beneficial relationship while progressively rebuilding trust on both sides? I will be happy to answer any questions, but I would like to get to work. Talk is little more than a distraction without the accompanying code and credibility:( -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Principles for ethical technology use
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:35 PM, James Cameron wrote: > Before sending a mail, writing code, editing a Wiki page, releasing an > activity, or pressing enter on IRC; > > > > 1. [...] would it be alright if everyone did it? > > 2. Is this going to harm or dehumanise anyone, even people I don’t > know and will never meet? > > 3. Do I have the informed consent of those who will be affected? > > If the answer to any of these questions is “no”, then it is arguably > unethical to do it. > > > > Quote is from the middle of an article by a lecturer in applied ethics > & socio-technical studies: > http://theconversation.com/on-best-behaviour-three-golden-rules-for-ethical-cyber-citizenship-19522 > > (don't look at me as good at this, but do tell me on failure!) > Agreed. A principle I like to keep in mind. "Because I mean well, does not implied I am doing good." It is very easy for me, and everyone else, to justify our actions because we mean well. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > About phase two: What is wrong with our actual Feature process? There is nothing wrong with the feature process. The project specification ( please see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Community_Edition/0.4/Project_Specifications ) is supplemental to the feature process. It the case of Sugar I would expect that features end of taking the place of services. The goal is to create a single point of reference where people with different backgrounds, interests, and levels of participation can see how they fit into the big picture. > About topics you are not talking, I would like AC spend some time trying to > push features upstream. That was almost not done in the last year, > and I am working on that right now, but would be good some help from your > part. I was hoping to sit on this for a while. Internally we are restructuring our Dextrose team around providing long term support across multiple platforms. Short term this means building our team. Mid term this means aligning AC's git repo as branches on the Sugar Labs github repo. Long term the goal is that AC will actively participate in maintaining a long term release of upstream Sugar. My thinking was that as organizations we can build trust (on both side) by working on the easier tasks of 1 and 2. In the meantime AC's internal Dextrose team can figure out enough of a strategy so that when we present something to the community we are not talking about half baked ideas and showing half baked code Cause lets be honest. If after this thread AC shows up with crap, you and any other Sugar Labs hacker will kick AC out on our asses, and we would deserve it. I am happy to revisit this, but I would like to clarify our organizational priorities and why we chose them. > Gonzalo > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 4:29 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Walter Bender >> wrote: >> > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:01 PM, David Farning >> > wrote: >> >> I would like to thank everyone who has provided valuable feedback by >> >> participating on this thread. >> >> >> >> The three things I am going to takeway from the the thread are: >> >> 1. Jame's point about my position about not representing the median. >> >> Due to my history and role in the ecosystem, I have upset some >> >> apple-carts :( >> >> 2. Martin's point about the right hand not always being aware of what >> >> the left hand is doing. This unfortunately seems to happen too >> >> frequently. >> >> 3. Finally, and most importantly, Daniel's point about getting back >> >> to the business of improving Sugar. >> >> >> >> My proposal is that Activity Central make the next step of funding two >> >> developers to work on HTML5 and JS. If we can find a mutually >> >> beneficial relationship around this, we can see how we can expand the >> >> relationship in the future. >> >> >> >> Seem reasonable? >> > >> > Proposals aside (of course more eyes and hands would be appreciated) >> > there is still the underlying issue of mistrust that you have raised. >> > I think it is important that we clear the air and I think it is not >> > unreasonable to ask you to be specific about your perceptions that >> > somehow Sugar Labs is not acting in a transparent manner. >> >> Agreed, let's do it step wise: >> Phase one -- Code and Roger will will start on the HTML5 + JS work >> with Daniel and Manq. >> >> Daniel has struck me as 'fair but firm.' On Activity Central's side, >> we are probably not going to incorporate that work in customer facing >> products for 6-9 months. Thus, it can be a trial of AC supporting >> upstream on innovative work without subjecting upstream the to >> changing desires of customers. >> >> Phase two -- Let's look at lessons learned from other projects. We can >> focus on the road map and product specification. From my experience, >> these two piece can provide an anchor for the rest of the project: >> 1. The act of sitting down and hashing out the roadmap and project >> specification causes everyone to sit back and assess their individual >> priorities and goals and how they fit into the project as a whole. >> 2. The act of deciding which items are above the line and which are >> below the line, which are targeted for this release and which are >> pushed to a future release, help find the balance between what is >> possible some day and what is probable in X months of work with >> existin
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:01 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> I would like to thank everyone who has provided valuable feedback by >> participating on this thread. >> >> The three things I am going to takeway from the the thread are: >> 1. Jame's point about my position about not representing the median. >> Due to my history and role in the ecosystem, I have upset some >> apple-carts :( >> 2. Martin's point about the right hand not always being aware of what >> the left hand is doing. This unfortunately seems to happen too >> frequently. >> 3. Finally, and most importantly, Daniel's point about getting back >> to the business of improving Sugar. >> >> My proposal is that Activity Central make the next step of funding two >> developers to work on HTML5 and JS. If we can find a mutually >> beneficial relationship around this, we can see how we can expand the >> relationship in the future. >> >> Seem reasonable? > > Proposals aside (of course more eyes and hands would be appreciated) > there is still the underlying issue of mistrust that you have raised. > I think it is important that we clear the air and I think it is not > unreasonable to ask you to be specific about your perceptions that > somehow Sugar Labs is not acting in a transparent manner. Agreed, let's do it step wise: Phase one -- Code and Roger will will start on the HTML5 + JS work with Daniel and Manq. Daniel has struck me as 'fair but firm.' On Activity Central's side, we are probably not going to incorporate that work in customer facing products for 6-9 months. Thus, it can be a trial of AC supporting upstream on innovative work without subjecting upstream the to changing desires of customers. Phase two -- Let's look at lessons learned from other projects. We can focus on the road map and product specification. From my experience, these two piece can provide an anchor for the rest of the project: 1. The act of sitting down and hashing out the roadmap and project specification causes everyone to sit back and assess their individual priorities and goals and how they fit into the project as a whole. 2. The act of deciding which items are above the line and which are below the line, which are targeted for this release and which are pushed to a future release, help find the balance between what is possible some day and what is probable in X months of work with existing resources. 3. Sitting back and preparing for a release forces us to asses what is good enough for release what is not. It is a good feedback loop. 4. Finally, after a successful release everyone can sit back bask is the satisfaction that maybe we didn't save the world... but we make enough progress that it is worth getting up again tomorrow and doing it all again. Phase three -- Let's look at some mechanism for balancing the need to push the project forward through innovation and support existing deployments by providing stability. David > -walter > >> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: >>> On 29 October 2013 01:14, David Farning >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> As two Data points: >>>> In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me >>>> that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity >>>> Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard >>>> to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal >>>> of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their >>>> weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread >>>> the opinion was held. >>> >>> >>> The patch queue is currently empty. In the last six months only one patchset >>> was rejected. It was by Activity Central and it was rejected by me (not an >>> OLPC employee) for purely technical reasons. The proof being that the same >>> patchset landed after being cleaned up and resubmitted properly by another >>> Activity Central developer. >>> >>> More in general, no single developer is in charge of patch reviewing, OLPC >>> couldn't keep code out of the tree for non-technical reason even if they >>> wanted to. More specifically the ability to approve patches was offered to >>> one Activity Central developer, which never used it. >>> >>>> Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two >>>> developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept >>>> activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting >>>> started. But
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
I would like to thank everyone who has provided valuable feedback by participating on this thread. The three things I am going to takeway from the the thread are: 1. Jame's point about my position about not representing the median. Due to my history and role in the ecosystem, I have upset some apple-carts :( 2. Martin's point about the right hand not always being aware of what the left hand is doing. This unfortunately seems to happen too frequently. 3. Finally, and most importantly, Daniel's point about getting back to the business of improving Sugar. My proposal is that Activity Central make the next step of funding two developers to work on HTML5 and JS. If we can find a mutually beneficial relationship around this, we can see how we can expand the relationship in the future. Seem reasonable? On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > On 29 October 2013 01:14, David Farning > wrote: >> >> As two Data points: >> In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me >> that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity >> Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard >> to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal >> of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their >> weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread >> the opinion was held. > > > The patch queue is currently empty. In the last six months only one patchset > was rejected. It was by Activity Central and it was rejected by me (not an > OLPC employee) for purely technical reasons. The proof being that the same > patchset landed after being cleaned up and resubmitted properly by another > Activity Central developer. > > More in general, no single developer is in charge of patch reviewing, OLPC > couldn't keep code out of the tree for non-technical reason even if they > wanted to. More specifically the ability to approve patches was offered to > one Activity Central developer, which never used it. > >> Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two >> developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept >> activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting >> started. But, interestingly, their on-list request for clarification >> about how to test datastore was met with silence. > > > Mailing list posts going unanswered isn't really uncommon in free software > projects. But most of the time it just means that no one knows the answer or > everyone is too busy. > > Only me and Manuel are usually answering about HTML5. I have not answered > because... gmail put those messages in my spam folder, sigh! Most likely the > same happened to Manuel or he has been busy. (I need to take some sleep now > but I'll try to answer asap). -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 3:01 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Martin Langhoff >> wrote: >>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Walter Bender >>> wrote: >>>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning >>>> wrote: >>>>> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical >>>> >>>> I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions >>>> are overstated. As far as I know, the Association is still pursing >>>> sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field. >>>> Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my >>>> knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I >>>> don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy" >>>> but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning >>>> opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the >>>> Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had >>>> such partners since its founding in 2006. >>> >>> +1 on Walter's words, David's position is overstated. OLPC has shrunk >>> its Sugar investment, that is true. But on the other points, nothing >>> has changed significantly, OLPC has always had to find sources of >>> funding. >> >> As I stated, I hope to be proven wrong. > > You also stated: > >> The degree of openness and transparency is our fundamental >> disagreement. Best case is that the status quo works, Sugar Labs >> thrives, and I am proven wrong. Worst case is that Sugar adopts to the >> changing environment. > > Several of us have asked for an explanation. Yes, and sorry about the delay. This is a nuanced discussion which requires focusing on goals which can strengthen the project while avoiding recriminations about the past mistakes and individual weakness. The general observation is that open source projects are most effective when they provide a venue for multiple individuals and organizations with overlapping yet non-identical goals to come together to collaborate on a common platform which they can use and adapt for their own purpose. The specific observation about Sugar Labs is that an emphasis on identical goals tends to limit active participants. Outliers tend to be nudged aside. The remaining group of active participants are small but loyal. And yes, I see the irony of posting this observation on the sugar-devel mailing list. Everyone who is troubled by this observation has already left. As two Data points: In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread the opinion was held. Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting started. But, interestingly, their on-list request for clarification about how to test datastore was met with silence. I have tried to communicate that there is competition between organizations and deployments within the ecosystem... and that is good. Competition drives innovation. The challenge, as I see it, is for Sugar Labs to become the to common "collaborative" ground around which these organizations compete. Hope that helps. > regards. > > -walter > >> >>>>> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts. >>> >>> That's more like it ;-) >>> >>>>> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial >>>>> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments >>>>> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial >>>>> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on >>>>> Ubuntu. >>> >>> "Seeding and supporting projects" is how it's done. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> m >>> -- >>> martin.langh...@gmail.com >>> - ask interesting questions >>> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first >>> ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff >> >> >> >> -- >> David Farning >> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Walter Bender > wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning >> wrote: >>> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical >> >> I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions >> are overstated. As far as I know, the Association is still pursing >> sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field. >> Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my >> knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I >> don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy" >> but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning >> opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the >> Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had >> such partners since its founding in 2006. > > +1 on Walter's words, David's position is overstated. OLPC has shrunk > its Sugar investment, that is true. But on the other points, nothing > has changed significantly, OLPC has always had to find sources of > funding. As I stated, I hope to be proven wrong. >>> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts. > > That's more like it ;-) > >>> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial >>> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments >>> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial >>> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on >>> Ubuntu. > > "Seeding and supporting projects" is how it's done. > > cheers, > > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical >> set of questions which will determine the future viability of Sugar. >> >> If anyone as more informed, please correct me if I am sharing >> incorrect information: >> 1. The Association has dropped future development of XO laptops and >> Sugar as part of their long term strategy. I base this on the >> reduction of hardware and software personal employed by the >> Association. >> 2. The Association is reducing its roll within the engineering and >> development side of the ecosystem. I base this on the shift toward >> integrating existing technology, software, and content from other >> vendors on the XO tablet. >> 3. The Association is shifting away from its initial roll as a >> technical philanthropy to a revenue generating organization structured >> as a association. I base this on the general shift in conversations >> and decisions from public to private channels. >> > > I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions > are overstated. I hope to be proven wrong and the laptop side of the Association regains momentum. > As far as I know, the Association is still pursing > sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field. > Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my > knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I > don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy" > but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning > opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the > Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had > such partners since its founding in 2006. > >> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts. While >> painful, the world is better of with a leaner (and meaner) OLPC >> Association which lives to fight another day. The challenge moving >> forward is how to develop and maintain the Sugar platform, the >> universe of activities, and the supporting distributions given the >> reduction in patronage from the OLPC Association. >> >> I, and AC, would be happy to work more closely with Sugar Labs if >> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial >> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments >> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial >> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on >> Ubuntu. > > I don't understand what you are asking. Sugar Labs has always had a > policy of working in the open. The degree of openness and transparency is our fundamental disagreement. Best case is that the status quo works, Sugar Labs thrives, and I am proven wrong. Worst case is that Sugar adopts to the changing environment. > That said, Sugar Labs volunteers (yes, > we are all volunteers), have on occasion done consulting for OLPC, AC, > deployments, and other third parties. Nothing new or unusual about > that either. > > The future of Sugar is incumbant upon its remaining relevant to > learning and its maintaining a vibrant upstream community. If you (and > AC) want to contribute to the future of Sugar, please work with us > upstream, e.g. report bugs upstream, submit patches upstream, test > code originating upstream, mentor newbies, etc. Par for the course for > any FOSS project. > >> >> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 6:11 AM, David Farning >> wrote: >>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: >>>> I agree with your analysis about slow deployment updates versus fast >>>> community cycles. >>>> >>>> In my view, there are two alternatives: >>>> >>>> * We can slow down a little the Sugar cycle, may be doing one release by >>>> year, >>>> but I am not sure if will help. The changes will take more time to go to >>>> the >>>> users? >>>> If a deployment miss a update, will need wait a entire year? >>>> * Someone can work in a LTS Sugar. That should be good if they can push >>>> the fixes they work upstream while they are working in their own project. >>> >>> If someone, individuals or a third party, were willing and able to >>> provide LTS support for a version of Sugar, how would you recommend >>> they go about doing it? >>> >>> With the recent changes to the ecosystem, I am unclear about the >>> current structure, cu
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical set of questions which will determine the future viability of Sugar. If anyone as more informed, please correct me if I am sharing incorrect information: 1. The Association has dropped future development of XO laptops and Sugar as part of their long term strategy. I base this on the reduction of hardware and software personal employed by the Association. 2. The Association is reducing its roll within the engineering and development side of the ecosystem. I base this on the shift toward integrating existing technology, software, and content from other vendors on the XO tablet. 3. The Association is shifting away from its initial roll as a technical philanthropy to a revenue generating organization structured as a association. I base this on the general shift in conversations and decisions from public to private channels. Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts. While painful, the world is better of with a leaner (and meaner) OLPC Association which lives to fight another day. The challenge moving forward is how to develop and maintain the Sugar platform, the universe of activities, and the supporting distributions given the reduction in patronage from the OLPC Association. I, and AC, would be happy to work more closely with Sugar Labs if there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on Ubuntu. On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 6:11 AM, David Farning wrote: > On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: >> I agree with your analysis about slow deployment updates versus fast >> community cycles. >> >> In my view, there are two alternatives: >> >> * We can slow down a little the Sugar cycle, may be doing one release by >> year, >> but I am not sure if will help. The changes will take more time to go to the >> users? >> If a deployment miss a update, will need wait a entire year? >> * Someone can work in a LTS Sugar. That should be good if they can push >> the fixes they work upstream while they are working in their own project. > > If someone, individuals or a third party, were willing and able to > provide LTS support for a version of Sugar, how would you recommend > they go about doing it? > > With the recent changes to the ecosystem, I am unclear about the > current structure, culture, and politics of Sugar Labs. My concern is > that in that past several years a number of organization who have > participated in Sugar development have left or reduced their > participation. When asking them why they left, the most common > response is that that they didn't feel they were able to establish or > sustain mutually beneficial relationships within the ecosystem. > > Would you be interesting in looking at cultural, political, and > procedural traits which have enabled other free and opensource > projects to foster thriving ecosystems? Are these traits present in > Sugar Labs? > > While, I understand it is frustrating for an upstream software > developer. A primary tenet of free and open sources software is that > then anyone can use and distribute the software as they see fit as > long as the source code is made available. The challenge for an > upstream is to create an environment where it is more beneficial for > individuals and organizations to work together than it is to work > independently. > > To make things more concrete, three areas of concern are Control, Credit, > Money: > -- Control -- Are there mechanism for publicly making and > communicating project direction in a productive manner? Is > disagreement accepted and encouraged? > > -- Credit -- Are there mechanism for publicly acknowledging who > participates and adds value to the ecosystem? Is credit shared freely > and fairly? > > -- Money -- Are there mechanisms in place for publicly acknowledge > that money pays a role in the ecosystem? Is Sugar Labs able to > maintain a neutral base around which people and organizations can > collaborate? > > From my limited experience, I don't believe there is an single holy > grail type answer to any of these questions. Instead, the answers tend > to evolve as situations change and participants come and go. > >> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 9:46 AM, David Farning >> wrote: >>> >>> For phase one this openness in communication, I would like to open the >>> discussion to strategies for working together. My interest is how to >>> deal with the notion of overlapping yet non-identical goals. >>> >>> As a case study, let'
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > I agree with your analysis about slow deployment updates versus fast > community cycles. > > In my view, there are two alternatives: > > * We can slow down a little the Sugar cycle, may be doing one release by > year, > but I am not sure if will help. The changes will take more time to go to the > users? > If a deployment miss a update, will need wait a entire year? > * Someone can work in a LTS Sugar. That should be good if they can push > the fixes they work upstream while they are working in their own project. If someone, individuals or a third party, were willing and able to provide LTS support for a version of Sugar, how would you recommend they go about doing it? With the recent changes to the ecosystem, I am unclear about the current structure, culture, and politics of Sugar Labs. My concern is that in that past several years a number of organization who have participated in Sugar development have left or reduced their participation. When asking them why they left, the most common response is that that they didn't feel they were able to establish or sustain mutually beneficial relationships within the ecosystem. Would you be interesting in looking at cultural, political, and procedural traits which have enabled other free and opensource projects to foster thriving ecosystems? Are these traits present in Sugar Labs? While, I understand it is frustrating for an upstream software developer. A primary tenet of free and open sources software is that then anyone can use and distribute the software as they see fit as long as the source code is made available. The challenge for an upstream is to create an environment where it is more beneficial for individuals and organizations to work together than it is to work independently. To make things more concrete, three areas of concern are Control, Credit, Money: -- Control -- Are there mechanism for publicly making and communicating project direction in a productive manner? Is disagreement accepted and encouraged? -- Credit -- Are there mechanism for publicly acknowledging who participates and adds value to the ecosystem? Is credit shared freely and fairly? -- Money -- Are there mechanisms in place for publicly acknowledge that money pays a role in the ecosystem? Is Sugar Labs able to maintain a neutral base around which people and organizations can collaborate? >From my limited experience, I don't believe there is an single holy grail type answer to any of these questions. Instead, the answers tend to evolve as situations change and participants come and go. > On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 9:46 AM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> For phase one this openness in communication, I would like to open the >> discussion to strategies for working together. My interest is how to >> deal with the notion of overlapping yet non-identical goals. >> >> As a case study, let's look at deployment and developer preferences >> for stability and innovation. >> >> The roll out pipeline for a deployment can be long: >> 1. Core development. >> 2. Core validation.. >> 3. Activity development. >> 4. Activity validation. >> 5. Update documentation. >> 6. Update training materials. >> 7. Pilot. >> 8. Roll-out. >> >> This can take months, even years. >> >> This directly conflicts with the rapid innovation cycle of development >> used by effective up streams. Good projects constantly improve and >> refine their speed of innovation. >> >> Is is desirable, or even possible, to create a project where these two >> overlapping yet non-identical needs can be balanced? As a concrete >> example we could look at the pros and cons of a stable long term >> support sugar release lead by quick, leading edge releases. >> >> For full disclosure, I tried to start this same conversation several >> years ago. I failed: >> 1. I did not have the credibility to be take seriously. >> 2. I did not have the political, social, and technical experience to >> understand the nuances of engaging with the various parties in the >> ecosystem. >> 3. I did not have the emotional control to assertively advocate ideas >> without aggressively advocating opinions. >> >> Has enough changed in the past several years to make it valuable to >> revisit this conversation publicly? >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Gonzalo Odiard >> wrote: >> > David, >> > Certainly is good know plans, and started a interesting discussion. >> > In eduJam and in Montevideo, I was talking with the new AC hackers, >> > and tried to convince them to work on sugar 0.100 instead of sugar 0.98. >> > Have a lot of sense tr
Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
For phase one this openness in communication, I would like to open the discussion to strategies for working together. My interest is how to deal with the notion of overlapping yet non-identical goals. As a case study, let's look at deployment and developer preferences for stability and innovation. The roll out pipeline for a deployment can be long: 1. Core development. 2. Core validation.. 3. Activity development. 4. Activity validation. 5. Update documentation. 6. Update training materials. 7. Pilot. 8. Roll-out. This can take months, even years. This directly conflicts with the rapid innovation cycle of development used by effective up streams. Good projects constantly improve and refine their speed of innovation. Is is desirable, or even possible, to create a project where these two overlapping yet non-identical needs can be balanced? As a concrete example we could look at the pros and cons of a stable long term support sugar release lead by quick, leading edge releases. For full disclosure, I tried to start this same conversation several years ago. I failed: 1. I did not have the credibility to be take seriously. 2. I did not have the political, social, and technical experience to understand the nuances of engaging with the various parties in the ecosystem. 3. I did not have the emotional control to assertively advocate ideas without aggressively advocating opinions. Has enough changed in the past several years to make it valuable to revisit this conversation publicly? On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > David, > Certainly is good know plans, and started a interesting discussion. > In eduJam and in Montevideo, I was talking with the new AC hackers, > and tried to convince them to work on sugar 0.100 instead of sugar 0.98. > Have a lot of sense try to work in the same code if possible, > and will be good for your plans of work on web activities. > May be we can look at the details, but I agree with you, we should try avoid > fragmentation. > > Gonzalo > > > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:56 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> Over the past couple of weeks there has been an interesting thread >> which started from AC's attempt to clarify our priorities for the next >> couple of months. One of the most interesting aspects has been the >> interplay between private/political vs. public/vision discussions. >> >> There seem to be several people and organizations with overlapping yet >> slightly different goals. Is there interest in seeing how these people >> and organizations can work together towards a common goal? Are we >> happy with the current degree of fragmentation? >> >> I fully admit my role in the current fragmentation. One of the reasons >> I started AC was KARMA. At the time I was frustrated because I felt >> that ideas such as karma were being judged on who controlled or >> received credit for them instead of their value to deployments. We >> hired several key sugar hackers and forked Sugar to work on the >> problem. >> >> While effective at creating a third voice in the ecosystem, (The >> association has shifted more effort towards supporting deployments and >> Sugar Labs via OLPC-AU is up streaming many of our deployment specific >> patches) my approach was heavy handed and indulgent... and I apologize >> for that. >> >> -- >> David Farning >> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.
Over the past couple of weeks there has been an interesting thread which started from AC's attempt to clarify our priorities for the next couple of months. One of the most interesting aspects has been the interplay between private/political vs. public/vision discussions. There seem to be several people and organizations with overlapping yet slightly different goals. Is there interest in seeing how these people and organizations can work together towards a common goal? Are we happy with the current degree of fragmentation? I fully admit my role in the current fragmentation. One of the reasons I started AC was KARMA. At the time I was frustrated because I felt that ideas such as karma were being judged on who controlled or received credit for them instead of their value to deployments. We hired several key sugar hackers and forked Sugar to work on the problem. While effective at creating a third voice in the ecosystem, (The association has shifted more effort towards supporting deployments and Sugar Labs via OLPC-AU is up streaming many of our deployment specific patches) my approach was heavy handed and indulgent... and I apologize for that. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Central's Sugar related priorities.
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote: > This actually is kind of what I meant (and perhaps should be a separate > thread). > > My understanding is that deployments nowadays are the primary parties > funding Sugar development. And the deployments or their contractors > sometimes duplicate work, run into debates upstreaming things, and/or may > choose to keep some things semi-private to differentiate their products. > > So apart from major functionality like HTML5 activities, a lot of peripheral > development is happening downstream-first. And when we do try to do major > cross-group development like the GTK3 port, this has lead to finger-pointing > behind the scenes where it is claimed others are not doing what they > promised. > > To the best of my knowledge no single organization currently employs enough > developers and/or contractors to keep Sugar development alive. I am not > certain what the best approach to take is when this is the case. Thanks to everyone for their feedback on this thread. As Samuel points out, over the last several years, the ecosystem has evolved from a single entity into a number of organisations with overlapping, but not identical, goals. This opens the door for a competitive ecosystem such as the kernel which thrives by making it more effective to compete on top of a collaboratively developed foundation rather than going it alone. In this case, I don't know how the upstream / downstream relationship will look. My feeling is that it will require us as individuals and organizations to look at how we currently benefit (and struggle) by competing and how we can set aside our egos and benefit by collaborating. In the coming weeks, Ruben and Anish will be available on the mailing lists and at the conference in San Francisco to discuss if working together is mutually desirable. >From there, we can go in to the technical aspects of how to make that happen. > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 6:22 PM, James Cameron wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 12:00:47AM +0200, Daniel Narvaez wrote: >> > Well "everyone seems to be developing their own version of Sugar" >> > seems to be more than that. But maybe I'm just reading too much into >> > it. >> > >> > There aren't multiple groups of people or individuals developing >> > sugar on their own. As far as I know all the work that is being done >> > these days is going upstream. >> >> Good. I only know of four Sugars. Sugar upstream, Dextrose, what is >> in OLPC OS, and what is in the Australian builds. There might be >> more, but I'm not aware of them. I also don't know the difference >> between each. >> >> -- >> James Cameron >> http://quozl.linux.org.au/ >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> de...@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > de...@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Activity Central's Sugar related priorities.
As a data point for other decision makers and a follow up to some of the recent threads on the future of Sugar, I would like to share Activity Central's Sugar priorities for the next six months. Activity Central supports the recent HTML5 + JS work that is going into sugar .100. It has the potential to take the OLPC vision to any device which runs a browser while simultaneously increasing the potential activity developer pool by several orders of magnitude. This is an excellent area for community lead research. Activity Central will be doing activity side work to test the viability of the framework for client deployments. As a more incremental approach, Activity Central will continue our deployment-centric work by porting Dextrose to Ubuntu. A concern among deployments is the future availability of hardware to support their current investment. Deployments are concerned that laptop support will stop before tablets are ready for use in the field. Because of the controversial nature of this work and the potential for disruption it may cause to the Association, we understand if some people would prefer to sit this out. Would either of these list be appropriate to continue these discussions about this downstream efforts to port sugar to Ubuntu for use on hardware not sold by the Association? Phase one has been a poof of concept as seen at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Ubuntu (ongoing) Phase two will be opening the project to the community. Phases three will be testing and piloting by deployments. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0
Hi no they are out of the box (locked). It is out of my hands, that's how there were delivered. We need a way of downloading all the files and dependencies to a flash drive and installing Flash from that. Previously we were using XO 1s with release 11.3.1. I used yumdownloader to get all the Gstreamer codec files. I then added the latest flash rpm from Adobe. Then run a script to run all the rpms from a flashdrive. It used to work fine with flash viewable in Browse v129. FLV files would download by default in Browse and could be opened in Jukebox. As it is, with 13.2.0 if I do not install the flash plugin, emebedded swf objects display OK in Browse but if you navigate to a FLV file the browser Flash player starts up and it does not play (missing plugin). You can right click and Keep the file and play it in Jukebox (up to v26) if the Gstreamer codecs have been installed using the method described above, but without Flash, and with downgrading of Jukebox to v26. That's workable with a script but we just have this new issue with the nspluginwrapper. It is not a critical issue but just means things become more fiddly for the kids with playing FLV videos. Also Youtube won't play but as they have no Internet it doesn't matter. David -Original Message- From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2013 9:12 a.m. To: David Leeming Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0 Sure, I'll put something together using the xo-custom infrastructure that Jerry (bless his fingers) did. But, the laptops _must_ be unlocked, can you confirm they are unlocked? If they are locked, how do you deliver customisations? On Thu, Oct 03, 2013 at 09:06:18AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > James, > > Turns out it's a question of doing things slightly differently. Pardon my > earlier impatience. > > One issue I have: > > from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_Flash#Installation_on_XO-1_and_XO-1.5 > > in OLPC OS 12.1.0 or later[1], wrap the plugin, paste this: > > yum -y install nspluginwrapper && \ > /usr/lib/nspluginwrapper/npconfig -n \ > -p nswrapper_32_32 \ > -d /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins-wrapped \ > -i /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so > > We need a method of doing this offline (I have to train someone in a remote > location with no Internet access to do this with 150 XOs already delivered). > Would appreciate advice on how to grab the files needed and run the above > from my install script, with everything on a flashdrive > > > David > > -Original Message- > From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org > [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of James Cameron > Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2013 1:05 p.m. > To: David Leeming > Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0 > > No worries. > > Just to speculate a little bit: the page > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_Flash had some big edits yesterday, > because it was quite out of date, and either: > > 1. a mistake may have been made and you followed the mistake, or; > > 2. you used the old instructions which neglected to wrap the plugin. > > Also, it would appear you have two issues, not one. Let's keep them > separate and not conflate them. > > On Tue, Oct 01, 2013 at 12:29:28PM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > Hi James, > > > > I'll carefully reproduce the issue and provide complete information later > > today, rather than confuse things further! > > > > David > > > > -Original Message- > > From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2013 12:15 p.m. > > To: David Leeming > > Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' > > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0 > > > > The information you provide doesn't seem to match my experience of > > what is available and what works, so I'll probe the problem > > description a little bit: > > > > - when you said you upgraded to 13.2.0, what is it you upgraded from? > > I ask so that I can consider the differences. > > > > - is there an example of this multimedia content consisting of .swf > > objects embedded in web pages? I ask so that I can try to reproduce > > the problem quickly. > > > > - are you using the same version of Browse as supplied with 13.2.0, or > > a version delivered by Software Update or customisation? I ask so > > that I can try to reproduce the problem. > > > > - is this the exact OLPC OS 13.2.0 or is it a build by someone else? > > I ask
Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0
James, Turns out it's a question of doing things slightly differently. Pardon my earlier impatience. One issue I have: from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_Flash#Installation_on_XO-1_and_XO-1.5 in OLPC OS 12.1.0 or later[1], wrap the plugin, paste this: yum -y install nspluginwrapper && \ /usr/lib/nspluginwrapper/npconfig -n \ -p nswrapper_32_32 \ -d /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins-wrapped \ -i /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so We need a method of doing this offline (I have to train someone in a remote location with no Internet access to do this with 150 XOs already delivered). Would appreciate advice on how to grab the files needed and run the above from my install script, with everything on a flashdrive David -Original Message- From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of James Cameron Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2013 1:05 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0 No worries. Just to speculate a little bit: the page http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Adobe_Flash had some big edits yesterday, because it was quite out of date, and either: 1. a mistake may have been made and you followed the mistake, or; 2. you used the old instructions which neglected to wrap the plugin. Also, it would appear you have two issues, not one. Let's keep them separate and not conflate them. On Tue, Oct 01, 2013 at 12:29:28PM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > Hi James, > > I'll carefully reproduce the issue and provide complete information later > today, rather than confuse things further! > > David > > -Original Message- > From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] > Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2013 12:15 p.m. > To: David Leeming > Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0 > > The information you provide doesn't seem to match my experience of > what is available and what works, so I'll probe the problem > description a little bit: > > - when you said you upgraded to 13.2.0, what is it you upgraded from? > I ask so that I can consider the differences. > > - is there an example of this multimedia content consisting of .swf > objects embedded in web pages? I ask so that I can try to reproduce > the problem quickly. > > - are you using the same version of Browse as supplied with 13.2.0, or > a version delivered by Software Update or customisation? I ask so > that I can try to reproduce the problem. > > - is this the exact OLPC OS 13.2.0 or is it a build by someone else? > I ask so that I can match version metadata. > > - does the content play properly in Epiphany or Firefox? I ask > in order to rule out various software layers. > > Regarding your opinion that a new release keeps us on our toes, I > agree, and it seems the community testing has been lacking, and > finding these problems at the point of deployment is an indicator of > that. I wish people would have done this testing _before_ we ran out > of time. > > devel@ is a more appropriate mailing list for problems that are > specific to OLPC OS and not to Browse, but let's see how far we get > with the assumption that it is Browse at fault. > > On Tue, Oct 01, 2013 at 11:49:48AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > XO-1.5 with release 13.2.0 > > > > > > > > We have been providing educational resources on the school servers including > > multimedia content from UNESCO, .swf objects embedded in web pages. Users > > access it with Browse. It is necessary to install the Flash plugin (latest > > rpm > > downloaded from Adobe). > > > > > > > > However, when upgrading to 13.2.0 the pages now display “missing plugin” in > > the placeholders for the swf objects. > > > > > > > > Similarly, we have been providing the Khan Academy videos (flv), which were > > accessed using Browse to navigate to a folder on the school server and > > clicking > > on the flv file required, which caused Browse to download the video to the > > journal, from where it could be run in Jukebox (versions up to 26). Now > > instead > > a player is displayed in Browse but nothing happens. If I take the same > > files > > and put them on a USB stick and play them from that, it opens Jukebox and > > plays > > them perfectly well, so the Gstreamer codecs have installed OK. > > > > > > > > How can I get Browse to play the swf objects as it used to? > > > > > > > > How can I get Browse to download rather than play in a player that doesn’t
Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0
Hi James, I'll carefully reproduce the issue and provide complete information later today, rather than confuse things further! David -Original Message- From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2013 12:15 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0 The information you provide doesn't seem to match my experience of what is available and what works, so I'll probe the problem description a little bit: - when you said you upgraded to 13.2.0, what is it you upgraded from? I ask so that I can consider the differences. - is there an example of this multimedia content consisting of .swf objects embedded in web pages? I ask so that I can try to reproduce the problem quickly. - are you using the same version of Browse as supplied with 13.2.0, or a version delivered by Software Update or customisation? I ask so that I can try to reproduce the problem. - is this the exact OLPC OS 13.2.0 or is it a build by someone else? I ask so that I can match version metadata. - does the content play properly in Epiphany or Firefox? I ask in order to rule out various software layers. Regarding your opinion that a new release keeps us on our toes, I agree, and it seems the community testing has been lacking, and finding these problems at the point of deployment is an indicator of that. I wish people would have done this testing _before_ we ran out of time. devel@ is a more appropriate mailing list for problems that are specific to OLPC OS and not to Browse, but let's see how far we get with the assumption that it is Browse at fault. On Tue, Oct 01, 2013 at 11:49:48AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > XO-1.5 with release 13.2.0 > > > > We have been providing educational resources on the school servers including > multimedia content from UNESCO, .swf objects embedded in web pages. Users > access it with Browse. It is necessary to install the Flash plugin (latest rpm > downloaded from Adobe). > > > > However, when upgrading to 13.2.0 the pages now display “missing plugin” in > the placeholders for the swf objects. > > > > Similarly, we have been providing the Khan Academy videos (flv), which were > accessed using Browse to navigate to a folder on the school server and > clicking > on the flv file required, which caused Browse to download the video to the > journal, from where it could be run in Jukebox (versions up to 26). Now > instead > a player is displayed in Browse but nothing happens. If I take the same files > and put them on a USB stick and play them from that, it opens Jukebox and > plays > them perfectly well, so the Gstreamer codecs have installed OK. > > > > How can I get Browse to play the swf objects as it used to? > > > > How can I get Browse to download rather than play in a player that doesn’t > work > (or how can I get that to work)? > > > > Always keeps one on ones toes when a new release comes out. However it’s > hugely > time consuming. > > > > David Leeming > > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Flash and SWF in Browse build 13.2.0
XO-1.5 with release 13.2.0 We have been providing educational resources on the school servers including multimedia content from UNESCO, .swf objects embedded in web pages. Users access it with Browse. It is necessary to install the Flash plugin (latest rpm downloaded from Adobe). However, when upgrading to 13.2.0 the pages now display "missing plugin" in the placeholders for the swf objects. Similarly, we have been providing the Khan Academy videos (flv), which were accessed using Browse to navigate to a folder on the school server and clicking on the flv file required, which caused Browse to download the video to the journal, from where it could be run in Jukebox (versions up to 26). Now instead a player is displayed in Browse but nothing happens. If I take the same files and put them on a USB stick and play them from that, it opens Jukebox and plays them perfectly well, so the Gstreamer codecs have installed OK. How can I get Browse to play the swf objects as it used to? How can I get Browse to download rather than play in a player that doesn't work (or how can I get that to work)? Always keeps one on ones toes when a new release comes out. However it's hugely time consuming. David Leeming ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2013-09-16
hands helping with both > closing a few outstanding tickets [9] and helping with testing. > Gonzalo and Jerry have been preparing images (Fedora 18) for OLPC AU > that can be used for testing [10]. Kudos to our release manager Daniel > Narveaz!!! > > 7. Tom Gilliard has been making SoaS images on Fedora 20 that can also > be used for testing [11]. Meanwhile, the previous release of Sugar > (98.8) is available on Ubuntu (12.04) [12] thanks to the efforts of > Quidam. > > === Sugar Labs === > > 8. Please visit (and contribute to) our planet [13]. > > > > [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/15/magazine/no-child-left-untableted.html > [2] > http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2013/09/15/magazine/15klein3/15klein3-sfSpan.jpg > [3] http://developer.sugarlabs.org/web-architecture.md.html > [4] http://developer.sugarlabs.org/android.md.html > [5] http://people.sugarlabs.org/walter/Guia_Ingles_10-08-2013.pdf (en) > [6] http://people.sugarlabs.org/walter/Guia_Esp_12-08-2013.pdf (es) > [7] http://ceibaljam.org/drupal/?q=edujam2013 > [8] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2013 > [9] > http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=accepted&status=reopened&priority=Immediate&priority=Urgent&component=Sugar&status_field=New&order=priority > [10] http://build.laptop.org.au/xo/os/sugar-100 > [11] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Fedora_20#SoaS_86_64-dm_.28remix.29 > [12] > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Ubuntu#Ubuntu_12.04.2_LTS_-_Dextrose_Sugar_Live > [13] http://planet.sugarlab.org > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Poll 28 not working with XO 1.5 13.1.0
Thanks! It's a great activity. Joke Machine also won't work, maybe it is a
related issue.
David
From: godi...@gmail.com [mailto:godi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gonzalo
Odiard
Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013 6:40 a.m.
To: David Leeming
Cc: Sugar-dev Devel
Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Poll 28 not working with XO 1.5 13.1.0
We are working to solve this.
You can use http://dev.laptop.org/~gonzalo/activities/Poll-28.1.xo
as a temporary solution.
Gonzalo
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 6:39 AM, David Leeming
wrote:
This was one we have found useful. However I can't get it to start in 13.1.0
("Poll failed to start")
David Leeming
Solomon Islands
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http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Poll 28 not working with XO 1.5 13.1.0
This was one we have found useful. However I can't get it to start in 13.1.0
("Poll failed to start")
David Leeming
Solomon Islands
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 47
Thanks Jerry that is definitely something we need to look into. It's just a question of time and resources but obviously that's the way to go, to start with a clear strategy and not just fire fighting... David -Original Message- From: Jerry Vonau [mailto:jvo...@shaw.ca] Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013 5:35 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: qu...@laptop.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; 'Tony Anderson' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 47 On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 15:13 +1100, David Leeming wrote: > That's all understood. However the task at hand is that a regional bank has > donated 200 XO 1.5s to two schools in the Solomons and they want to play > videos and music on them. I can't say, well sorry they gave you the wrong > ones. > > Another issue was that 2GB 1.5s were supplied with 11.3.1 and have very > limited memory and the journals become full within a few days use, so we > have the job now of upgrading them all with 8GB cards kindly forwarded to us > by OLPC. > > With the extra memory we thought we'd upgrade to 13.2.0 but if we can't find > a way to conveniently install codecs on them all we have the choice of > staying with 11.3.1 which is still pretty good. > To install the codecs I would strongly suggest that you explore os-olpc-builder and brew up what you need into an image that you can install on unlocked machines. That is what I do for the OLPC Australia. Jerry > The method that works for that allows the paying of mpg, mp3, flv (including > Khan Academy videos in flv format) and possibly other video formats. > > David > > > -Original Message- > From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] > Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013 11:19 a.m. > To: David Leeming > Cc: 'Tony Anderson'; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 47 > > David, > > The "why is it so difficult" has to do with legal restrictions on OLPC > because of the jurisdictions it operates within. It prevents OLPC OS > from containing everything that might be useful; including the ability > to play all video formats. > > You might not so hindered. > > We're happy to host the process documentation on the OLPC Wiki, as we > do already with how to add these packages in a custom build: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OS_Builder/Add_repositories_and_packages > > You seem more interested in retrofitting; adding functionality back to > OLPC OS, rather than using a custom build, and so this documentation > is not as useful to you. > > So please, (both Tony and David), do publish your retrofit solution on > our Wiki so that other users (in such jurisdictions) can benefit. > > Other pages that deserve updates include: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/GStreamer > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Vmeta > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Restricted_formats > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Licensing > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 10:18:48AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > > Tony, > > > > Can we massage this into a process that provides us with all the rpms > needed > > for offline install in a folder, eliminating the need to be online with > > every XO - only the first one used to grab the rpms? > > > > And then script that runs as below but replaces the yum installs with > > offline install - such as rpm -ihv *.rpm ?? Can everything including the > > mime-types be managed in one script? > > > > How would 13.2.0 differ from 13.1.0? We really don't want to go down the > > road of changing Activity versions. > > > > This would then be run on any freshly installed XO (13.1.0 or we can jump > > to 13.2.0 if its easier) in one step from a flashdrive. > > > > Finally - why is it so difficult to do something that is often the first > > thing teachers and students ask - can they play videos and music (on their > > own terms). It's a barrier to uptake!!! > > > > I admit my frustration may be mostly out of ignorance, and would be very > > happy to be corrected or enlightened! > > > > David > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Tony Anderson [mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net] > > Sent: Friday, 23 August 2013 11:23 p.m. > > To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; David Leeming > > Subject: Re: Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 47 > > > > Hi, > > > > I use the following script to supply the codecs: > > > > #!/usr/bin/bash > > > > #script to enable mp3,mp4 > > > > sudo cp libgstmad.so /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10 > > sudo chmod 755 /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstma
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 47
That's all understood. However the task at hand is that a regional bank has donated 200 XO 1.5s to two schools in the Solomons and they want to play videos and music on them. I can't say, well sorry they gave you the wrong ones. Another issue was that 2GB 1.5s were supplied with 11.3.1 and have very limited memory and the journals become full within a few days use, so we have the job now of upgrading them all with 8GB cards kindly forwarded to us by OLPC. With the extra memory we thought we'd upgrade to 13.2.0 but if we can't find a way to conveniently install codecs on them all we have the choice of staying with 11.3.1 which is still pretty good. The method that works for that allows the paying of mpg, mp3, flv (including Khan Academy videos in flv format) and possibly other video formats. David -Original Message- From: qu...@laptop.org [mailto:qu...@laptop.org] Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013 11:19 a.m. To: David Leeming Cc: 'Tony Anderson'; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 47 David, The "why is it so difficult" has to do with legal restrictions on OLPC because of the jurisdictions it operates within. It prevents OLPC OS from containing everything that might be useful; including the ability to play all video formats. You might not so hindered. We're happy to host the process documentation on the OLPC Wiki, as we do already with how to add these packages in a custom build: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OS_Builder/Add_repositories_and_packages You seem more interested in retrofitting; adding functionality back to OLPC OS, rather than using a custom build, and so this documentation is not as useful to you. So please, (both Tony and David), do publish your retrofit solution on our Wiki so that other users (in such jurisdictions) can benefit. Other pages that deserve updates include: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/GStreamer http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Vmeta http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Restricted_formats http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Licensing On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 10:18:48AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: > Tony, > > Can we massage this into a process that provides us with all the rpms needed > for offline install in a folder, eliminating the need to be online with > every XO - only the first one used to grab the rpms? > > And then script that runs as below but replaces the yum installs with > offline install - such as rpm -ihv *.rpm ?? Can everything including the > mime-types be managed in one script? > > How would 13.2.0 differ from 13.1.0? We really don't want to go down the > road of changing Activity versions. > > This would then be run on any freshly installed XO (13.1.0 or we can jump > to 13.2.0 if its easier) in one step from a flashdrive. > > Finally - why is it so difficult to do something that is often the first > thing teachers and students ask - can they play videos and music (on their > own terms). It's a barrier to uptake!!! > > I admit my frustration may be mostly out of ignorance, and would be very > happy to be corrected or enlightened! > > David > > -Original Message- > From: Tony Anderson [mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net] > Sent: Friday, 23 August 2013 11:23 p.m. > To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; David Leeming > Subject: Re: Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 47 > > Hi, > > I use the following script to supply the codecs: > > #!/usr/bin/bash > > #script to enable mp3,mp4 > > sudo cp libgstmad.so /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10 > sudo chmod 755 /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstmad.so > sudo cp libmad.so.0 /usr/lib > sudo chmod 755 /usr/lib/libmad.so.0 > sudo cp libgstfaad.so /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10 > sudo chmod 755 /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstfaad.so > sudo cp libfaad.so.2.0.0 /usr/lib > sudo chmod 755 /usr/lib/libfaad.so.2.0.0 > sudo yum install gstreamer-ffmpeg-0.10.13-8.fc18.i686.rpm > sudo ldconfig > sudo rm -rf /home/olpc/.gstreamer-0.10/registry.i386.bin > gst-inspect > > This works for gstreamer 0.10. > > The 13.2.0 Jukebox uses gstreamer 1.0 but 13.2.0 also installs gstreamer > 0.10. > > The simplest solution may be to delete Jukebox and install version 26 > from ASLO. > > In addition, the applicable mime-types need to be added in > > /home/olpc/Activities/Jukebox.acivity/activity > > to activity.info. > > I added video/mp4;audio/mp4;video/webm;audio/aac; > > I was able to play a sample mp3 clip, a sample m4a (mp4 audio) and Khan > Academy videos in mp4, m4v, and webm formats. > > Tony > > On 08/23/2013 03:43 AM, sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote: > > essage: 3 > > Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:42:37 +1100 > > From: "David Leeming" > > To: "'Go
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 47
Tony, Can we massage this into a process that provides us with all the rpms needed for offline install in a folder, eliminating the need to be online with every XO - only the first one used to grab the rpms? And then script that runs as below but replaces the yum installs with offline install - such as rpm -ihv *.rpm ?? Can everything including the mime-types be managed in one script? How would 13.2.0 differ from 13.1.0? We really don't want to go down the road of changing Activity versions. This would then be run on any freshly installed XO (13.1.0 or we can jump to 13.2.0 if its easier) in one step from a flashdrive. Finally - why is it so difficult to do something that is often the first thing teachers and students ask - can they play videos and music (on their own terms). It's a barrier to uptake!!! I admit my frustration may be mostly out of ignorance, and would be very happy to be corrected or enlightened! David -Original Message- From: Tony Anderson [mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net] Sent: Friday, 23 August 2013 11:23 p.m. To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; David Leeming Subject: Re: Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 47 Hi, I use the following script to supply the codecs: #!/usr/bin/bash #script to enable mp3,mp4 sudo cp libgstmad.so /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10 sudo chmod 755 /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstmad.so sudo cp libmad.so.0 /usr/lib sudo chmod 755 /usr/lib/libmad.so.0 sudo cp libgstfaad.so /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10 sudo chmod 755 /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstfaad.so sudo cp libfaad.so.2.0.0 /usr/lib sudo chmod 755 /usr/lib/libfaad.so.2.0.0 sudo yum install gstreamer-ffmpeg-0.10.13-8.fc18.i686.rpm sudo ldconfig sudo rm -rf /home/olpc/.gstreamer-0.10/registry.i386.bin gst-inspect This works for gstreamer 0.10. The 13.2.0 Jukebox uses gstreamer 1.0 but 13.2.0 also installs gstreamer 0.10. The simplest solution may be to delete Jukebox and install version 26 from ASLO. In addition, the applicable mime-types need to be added in /home/olpc/Activities/Jukebox.acivity/activity to activity.info. I added video/mp4;audio/mp4;video/webm;audio/aac; I was able to play a sample mp3 clip, a sample m4a (mp4 audio) and Khan Academy videos in mp4, m4v, and webm formats. Tony On 08/23/2013 03:43 AM, sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote: > essage: 3 > Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:42:37 +1100 > From: "David Leeming" > To: "'Gonzalo Odiard'" > Cc: 'Sugar devel' > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Jukebox activity issue > Message-ID: <003f01ce9fa2$0bf3f9e0$23dbeda0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > When the list of rpms below were installed on a machine with 13.1.0, I still > could not play mp3, mpg, mp4, flv on Jukebox. It seems it's already using > gstreamer version 0.10 > > > > > > a52dec-0.7.4-16.fc17.i686.rpm > > gstreamer-ffmpeg-0.10.13-9.fc18.i686.rpm > > gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10.19-5.fc18.i686.rpm > > lame-libs-3.99.5-1.fc18.i686.rpm > > libmad-0.15.1b-15.fc18.i686.rpm > > libmpeg2-0.5.1-9.fc17.i686.rpm > > opencore-amr-0.1.3-2.fc18.i686.rpm > > twolame-libs-0.3.13-2.fc17.i686.rpm > > x264-libs-0.128-2.20121118gitf6a8615.fc18.i686.rpm > > > > Plus the latest Flash rpm > > > > These were obtained by running the latest: > > > > rpmfusion-free-release-stable.noarch.rpm > > rpmfusion-nonfree-release-stable.noarch.rpm > > > > followed by > > > > yumdownloader -resolve gstreamer-plugins-ugly > > yumdownloader -resolve gstreamer-ffmpeg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From:godi...@gmail.com [mailto:godi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gonzalo > Odiard > Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2013 9:02 p.m. > To: David Leeming > Cc: Sugar devel > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Jukebox activity issue > > > > Try installing gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10 and gstreamer-ffmpeg-0.10 > > Jukebox is using a new version of gstreamer. > > > > Gonzalo ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Jukebox activity issue
When the list of rpms below were installed on a machine with 13.1.0, I still could not play mp3, mpg, mp4, flv on Jukebox. It seems it's already using gstreamer version 0.10 a52dec-0.7.4-16.fc17.i686.rpm gstreamer-ffmpeg-0.10.13-9.fc18.i686.rpm gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10.19-5.fc18.i686.rpm lame-libs-3.99.5-1.fc18.i686.rpm libmad-0.15.1b-15.fc18.i686.rpm libmpeg2-0.5.1-9.fc17.i686.rpm opencore-amr-0.1.3-2.fc18.i686.rpm twolame-libs-0.3.13-2.fc17.i686.rpm x264-libs-0.128-2.20121118gitf6a8615.fc18.i686.rpm Plus the latest Flash rpm These were obtained by running the latest: rpmfusion-free-release-stable.noarch.rpm rpmfusion-nonfree-release-stable.noarch.rpm followed by yumdownloader -resolve gstreamer-plugins-ugly yumdownloader -resolve gstreamer-ffmpeg From: godi...@gmail.com [mailto:godi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gonzalo Odiard Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2013 9:02 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: Sugar devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Jukebox activity issue Try installing gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10 and gstreamer-ffmpeg-0.10 Jukebox is using a new version of gstreamer. Gonzalo On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:53 AM, David Leeming wrote: Hi I finally got to grips with 13.1.0 on an XO-1.5 with 8GB Previously we have only had XO 1s and XO 1.5s with 2GB, on which I could not upgrade from 11.3.1 Previously, in order to make it possible for the 100s of XOs here to play videos and music (other than ogg) we needed a way to install gstreamer codecs from a USB stick. The method shown below was used to download all the necessary rpms. Then you could go round and install the codecs on all the XOs and it was possible to play the multimedia (mpg, flv, mp3) in Jukebox Activity. But now I run into a wall again with 13.1.0 on an XO 1.5 (8GB), after preparing the codecs as below and running them, which it seemed to do successfully, I tried playing some test videos and mp3 on a flash drive. Jukebox now opens them but just puts them in a list on the left with the play controls greyed out. Am I missing something in regard playing music and video? Method used to prepare the codecs on a USB stick: ON AN XO WITH INTERNET CONNEC TION rpm -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-stable.noa rch.rpm rpm -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-stab le.noarch.rpm (OR DOWNLOAD AND RUN THEM MANUALLY) THEN yum install -y yum-utils NAVIGATE TO A USB STICK yumdownloader --resolve gstreamer-plugins-ugly yumdownloader --resolve gstreamer-ffmpeg DOWNLOAD FLASH RPM FROM ADOBE AND ADD TO THE COLLECTION OF RPMS ON ANY XO INSERT USB STICK AND RUN THE BELOW rpm -Uhv *.rpm David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link P.O.Box 652 Honiara, Solomon Islands +677 7476396 (m) +677 24419 (h) www.rurallink.com.sb ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Jukebox activity issue
yumdownloader - -resolve gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10 No Match for argument gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10 yumdownloader - -resolve gstreamer-ffmpeg-0.10 No Match for argument gstreamer-ffmpeg-0.10 ?? David From: godi...@gmail.com [mailto:godi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gonzalo Odiard Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2013 9:02 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: Sugar devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Jukebox activity issue Try installing gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10 and gstreamer-ffmpeg-0.10 Jukebox is using a new version of gstreamer. Gonzalo On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:53 AM, David Leeming wrote: Hi I finally got to grips with 13.1.0 on an XO-1.5 with 8GB Previously we have only had XO 1s and XO 1.5s with 2GB, on which I could not upgrade from 11.3.1 Previously, in order to make it possible for the 100s of XOs here to play videos and music (other than ogg) we needed a way to install gstreamer codecs from a USB stick. The method shown below was used to download all the necessary rpms. Then you could go round and install the codecs on all the XOs and it was possible to play the multimedia (mpg, flv, mp3) in Jukebox Activity. But now I run into a wall again with 13.1.0 on an XO 1.5 (8GB), after preparing the codecs as below and running them, which it seemed to do successfully, I tried playing some test videos and mp3 on a flash drive. Jukebox now opens them but just puts them in a list on the left with the play controls greyed out. Am I missing something in regard playing music and video? Method used to prepare the codecs on a USB stick: ON AN XO WITH INTERNET CONNEC TION rpm -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-stable.noa rch.rpm rpm -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-stab le.noarch.rpm (OR DOWNLOAD AND RUN THEM MANUALLY) THEN yum install -y yum-utils NAVIGATE TO A USB STICK yumdownloader --resolve gstreamer-plugins-ugly yumdownloader --resolve gstreamer-ffmpeg DOWNLOAD FLASH RPM FROM ADOBE AND ADD TO THE COLLECTION OF RPMS ON ANY XO INSERT USB STICK AND RUN THE BELOW rpm -Uhv *.rpm David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link P.O.Box 652 Honiara, Solomon Islands +677 7476396 (m) +677 24419 (h) www.rurallink.com.sb ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Jukebox activity issue
Hi I finally got to grips with 13.1.0 on an XO-1.5 with 8GB Previously we have only had XO 1s and XO 1.5s with 2GB, on which I could not upgrade from 11.3.1 Previously, in order to make it possible for the 100s of XOs here to play videos and music (other than ogg) we needed a way to install gstreamer codecs from a USB stick. The method shown below was used to download all the necessary rpms. Then you could go round and install the codecs on all the XOs and it was possible to play the multimedia (mpg, flv, mp3) in Jukebox Activity. But now I run into a wall again with 13.1.0 on an XO 1.5 (8GB), after preparing the codecs as below and running them, which it seemed to do successfully, I tried playing some test videos and mp3 on a flash drive. Jukebox now opens them but just puts them in a list on the left with the play controls greyed out. Am I missing something in regard playing music and video? Method used to prepare the codecs on a USB stick: ON AN XO WITH INTERNET CONNEC TION rpm -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-stable.noa rch.rpm rpm -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-stab le.noarch.rpm (OR DOWNLOAD AND RUN THEM MANUALLY) THEN yum install -y yum-utils NAVIGATE TO A USB STICK yumdownloader --resolve gstreamer-plugins-ugly yumdownloader --resolve gstreamer-ffmpeg DOWNLOAD FLASH RPM FROM ADOBE AND ADD TO THE COLLECTION OF RPMS ON ANY XO INSERT USB STICK AND RUN THE BELOW rpm -Uhv *.rpm David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link P.O.Box 652 Honiara, Solomon Islands +677 7476396 (m) +677 24419 (h) www.rurallink.com.sb ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [XSCE] Re: Client side Moodle transparent auth broken in 13.2.0 stable
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Jerry Vonau wrote: >> Good to hear from you Martin. Just to finish this thread off, I was not able >> to reproduce this behavior with the XO-1s that I have. This appears to >> affect Anna's machines only. Thanks for the hints to what might be the root >> cause. > > Thanks for the greeting! I had a season of detox after some severe > burnout. I'm spending this weekend at Fedora Flock for personal > enjoyment, and it's brought me back to the OLPC topic. Welcome back! I look forward to seeing your head and opinions poking up now and again :) > About Anna's machines -- I suspect either an old OFW or > bad/broken/misconfigured manufacturing data. > > cheers, > > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] Dextrose tickets
It would be interesting to see if increasing communication and interaction between upstream Sugar and Dextrose add value to either project. I believe there is potential for mutual benefit. On the other hand, I am satisfied with how OLPC, Sugar Labs, and Activity Central each each settled into their own niches within the ecosystem. If you find anything in Dextrose or AC which you can use to add value to please feel free to use it. On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > Hello, > > Walter was mentioning that dextrose tickets are not tracked on > bugs.sugarlabs.org anymore. Though there are still a ton of bugs open > there... Has they been migrated? Can we delete the components? > > -- > Daniel Narvaez > > ___ > Dextrose mailing list > dextr...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/dextrose > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] XSCE Update
Time for the second installment to the XSCE Update. - Deployments- 1. Bhagmalpur, India - http://bhagmalpur.wordpress.com/ . The update to XSCE is complete in Bhagmalpur. It will be interesting to see what Sameer concluded based on the statistics generation system. -- Thanks Sameer and Anish 2. Haiti - http://haitidreams.wordpress.com/ . Haiti was the first 'real world test' for XSCE started a couple of months ago. Many of the ideas for XSCE come from George's and Adam's experiences maintaining the deployment. -- Thanks George and Adam 3. OLPC Australia - https://www.laptop.org.au/ . Much of the planning for XSCE comes from the experience of Jerry, the lead developer of OLPC AU. Jerry lives in Canada while maintaining a 5000 unit deployment which is is the process of expanding to 50,000 XO4s. -- Thanks Jerry 4. Solomon Islands - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Solomon_Islands . Working with David has been a great help to the project. For the past couple of weeks, David has been asking a series of questions about testing and deploying XSCE in the Solomon Islands. Many of the questions involve working in a low bandwidth environment. We hope we learn from his questions and can create something which meets his needs. -- Thanks David 5. Dominican Republic - http://olpcdr.wordpress.com/ . Last week Ruben, from OLPC-A, joined the #schoolserver mailing list to ask some questions about deploying XSCE in the Dominican Republic. I hope this is a sign of growing cooperation between OLPC-A and XSCE. -- Thanks Ruben -Development - Santiago started using our new gIt workflow as documented at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Holt/XS_Community_Edition/0.4/Hacking . We hope the recent modularization and the new workflow will make it easier for deployment to upstream their hard work with needing to understand the entire system. If you are interested in tracking progress please see https://sugardextrose.org/projects/xsce/repository . -- Thanks Santi, Tim, George - What does the SchoolServer Serve? :) - For a general overview of the School Server please see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Holt/XS_Community_Edition . More specifically, a number of existing projects are working with XSCE to provide their content. XSCE's plug in design allow these projects to easily prepare their project for inclusion in XSCE 1. Internet in a Box - http://internet-in-a-box.org/ . It looks like IIAB will ship as an add on with 0.4 in Sept. -- Thanks Braddock 2. Pathagar. - https://github.com/PathagarBooks/pathagar . Pathagar is a simple book server for making custom libraries available to deployments. Pathagar is interesting because it allow curators to use widely available, cross platform tools such as http://calibre-ebook.com/ to maintain those libraries. -- Thanks Seth As always, please help us met your deployment or project's needs. -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] ClassroomBroadcast x11vnc install problem
When first installed, the path is /home/olpc/Activities/VNCServer.activity/bin/i586/x11vnc but the server stops unexpectedly. After downloading and installing the below, as per George’s advice (using –nogpgcheck because it was unsigned) http://dev.laptop.org/~gonzalo/x11vnc-0.9.13-3.fc17.i386.rpm the path is now /usr/bin/x11vnc and the VNC Server Activity works fine! I tested with UltraVNC Viewer on a Windows laptop over the WLAN. Thanks all, David From: Ignacio Rodríguez [mailto:nachoe...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 13 June 2013 12:34 a.m. To: Gonzalo Odiard Cc: David Leeming; Sugar devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] ClassroomBroadcast x11vnc install problem > (time) VNC server is started > (time + 1 second) It has stopped unexpectedly the server How odd! The path of x11vnc is? 2013/6/12 Gonzalo Odiard I found the same problem, the rpm is broken. Try downlading this [1] and then do: yum install x11vnc-0.9.13-3.fc17.i386.rpm Gonzalo [1] http://dev.laptop.org/~gonzalo/x11vnc-0.9.13-3.fc17.i386.rpm On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:41 PM, David Leeming wrote: I want to use ClassroomBroadcast version 10 on an XO 1.5 with build 885 0.94.1 and firmware Q3C07. It is a good one to use in training groups of teachers. The Activity downloads and installs OK. But when I follow the wiki page advice to install x11vnc in Terminal activity sudo yum install x11vnc With the XO out of the box, this didn’t work as it could not find the resource, so I updated : sudo yum update and then tried again. This time it resolved dependencies without error, but then stopped with Error: Package: x11vnc-0.9.8-14.fc13.i686 (fedora) Requires: Xvfb ** Found 1 pre-existing rpmdb problem(s), ‘yum check’ output follows: You could try using –skip-broken to work around the problem Mesa-libGL-7.8-5.fc14.i686 has missing requires of mesa-dri-drivers(x86-32) = (‘0’,’7.9’,’5.fc14’) So I tried sudo yum install x11vnc –skip-broken That concluded with Packages skipped because of dependency problems: libvncserver-0.8.9.7-4.fc14.i686 from fedora lzo-minilzo-2.03-3.fc12.i686 from fedora x11vnc-0.9.8-14.fc13.i686 from fedora I rebooted and tried it again but nothing new apart from the Journal showing as full – this build only leaves 80MB of free space which is another issue (I have posted on the devel list). Any advice appreciated, I really need to use this activity for a training next week. David Leeming Solomon Islands www.rurallink.com.sb ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Ignacio Rodríguez ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] ClassroomBroadcast x11vnc install problem
Hi, thanks for that It installed OK. Tested with wireless connection to my LAN and also to a school server. The activity starts OK. But when the VNC server is started, it reports as below. Something I am missing? (This is with an XO 1.5 flashed with os885.zd2, out of the box.) (time) VNC server is started (time + 1 second) It has stopped unexpectedly the server David Leeming From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Ignacio Rodríguez Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2013 11:45 a.m. To: David Leeming Cc: Sugar devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] ClassroomBroadcast x11vnc install problem You can use this activity: http://activities.sugarlabs.org/es-ES/sugar/addon/4664 2013/6/11 David Leeming I want to use ClassroomBroadcast version 10 on an XO 1.5 with build 885 0.94.1 and firmware Q3C07. It is a good one to use in training groups of teachers. The Activity downloads and installs OK. But when I follow the wiki page advice to install x11vnc in Terminal activity sudo yum install x11vnc With the XO out of the box, this didn’t work as it could not find the resource, so I updated : sudo yum update and then tried again. This time it resolved dependencies without error, but then stopped with Error: Package: x11vnc-0.9.8-14.fc13.i686 (fedora) Requires: Xvfb ** Found 1 pre-existing rpmdb problem(s), ‘yum check’ output follows: You could try using –skip-broken to work around the problem Mesa-libGL-7.8-5.fc14.i686 has missing requires of mesa-dri-drivers(x86-32) = (‘0’,’7.9’,’5.fc14’) So I tried sudo yum install x11vnc –skip-broken That concluded with Packages skipped because of dependency problems: libvncserver-0.8.9.7-4.fc14.i686 from fedora lzo-minilzo-2.03-3.fc12.i686 from fedora x11vnc-0.9.8-14.fc13.i686 from fedora I rebooted and tried it again but nothing new apart from the Journal showing as full – this build only leaves 80MB of free space which is another issue (I have posted on the devel list). Any advice appreciated, I really need to use this activity for a training next week. David Leeming Solomon Islands www.rurallink.com.sb ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Ignacio Rodríguez ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] ClassroomBroadcast x11vnc install problem
I want to use ClassroomBroadcast version 10 on an XO 1.5 with build 885
0.94.1 and firmware Q3C07. It is a good one to use in training groups of
teachers.
The Activity downloads and installs OK. But when I follow the wiki page
advice to install x11vnc in Terminal activity
sudo yum install x11vnc
With the XO out of the box, this didn't work as it could not find the
resource, so I updated :
sudo yum update
and then tried again. This time it resolved dependencies without error, but
then stopped with
Error: Package: x11vnc-0.9.8-14.fc13.i686 (fedora) Requires: Xvfb
** Found 1 pre-existing rpmdb problem(s), 'yum check' output follows:
You could try using -skip-broken to work around the problem
Mesa-libGL-7.8-5.fc14.i686 has missing requires of mesa-dri-drivers(x86-32)
= ('0','7.9','5.fc14')
So I tried
sudo yum install x11vnc -skip-broken
That concluded with
Packages skipped because of dependency problems:
libvncserver-0.8.9.7-4.fc14.i686 from fedora
lzo-minilzo-2.03-3.fc12.i686 from fedora
x11vnc-0.9.8-14.fc13.i686 from fedora
I rebooted and tried it again but nothing new apart from the Journal showing
as full - this build only leaves 80MB of free space which is another issue
(I have posted on the devel list).
Any advice appreciated, I really need to use this activity for a training
next week.
David Leeming
Solomon Islands
www.rurallink.com.sb
___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Google Summer of Code 2013
> Details of their projects can be found on the Google website Walter's link might not work if you aren't a mentor or student. Try this: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2013/sugarlabs2013 Best, David ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network version of Abecedarium: why and how
Hi, Lionel Besides any other optimizations, for a really quick and remorseless fix, you can run your images through Trimage, http://trimage.org/ , which uses some lossless compression libraries and seems to work nicely with your png resources (see attachment for an admittedly too small sample of results from your files, with impossible recursion added for fun). Best regards, David Rodriguez. El jue, 25-04-2013 a las 08:54 +0200, lio...@olpc-france.org escribió: > > > Hi Gonzalo, > > > > Hmmm, interesting. You’re right it’s a good way to explore to reduce > the package size. > > Plus, most of the times images are displayed in the game at maximum > 70% of the real size. So, I’m not sure reducing quality will be > visible. > > I’m going to try. > > About list of contents, it could be find here: [1]. > > > > Best regards from France. > > > > Lionel. > > > > > > [1] > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApkC1NVMZoZodGF1X2lwRERIcTBrN2NoMFMtejgxbHc#gid=0 > > > > > De : godi...@gmail.com [mailto:godi...@gmail.com] De la part de > Gonzalo Odiard > Envoyé : mercredi 24 avril 2013 23:31 > À : Lionel Laské > Cc : Sugar-dev Devel > Objet : Re: [Sugar-devel] Network version of Abecedarium: why and how > > > > Hi Lionel, > > Almost 65 MB are in the html/images/database directory, I think you > can reduce the size of these images to 1/4 of the actual size, just > saving as gif or jpg and playing a little with the properties, without > loosing too much quality. > > > I tried with one on gimp, but you can use imagemagick or similar to > reprocess all the directory > > > Look: > > > [gonzalo@localhost abc]$ ls -l > > > total 152 > > > -rw-rw-r--. 1 gonzalo gonzalo 19228 abr 24 17:59 accountant2.jpg > > > -rw-rw-r--. 1 gonzalo gonzalo 16029 abr 24 17:59 accountant3.jpg > > > -rw-rw-r--. 1 gonzalo gonzalo 21789 abr 24 17:56 accountant.gif > > > -rw-rw-r--. 1 gonzalo gonzalo 28391 abr 24 17:57 accountant.jpg > > > -rw-r--r--. 1 gonzalo gonzalo 62549 dic 9 22:57 accountant.png > > > > > > (accountant2.jpg is with quality 70% and accountant3.jpg with 50%) > > > I don't know about the audio, but maybe is possible improve there too. > > > > > > I would like have the list of words represented on these images on > pootle. I imagine many activities > > > can use this if is a shared resource. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 5:38 PM, wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I’ve released last week my Abecedarium activity for Sugar 0.96 > +. One issue with this activity is that, due to number of > contents (1500 images and sounds), its size is about 100Mo. > > > > We want to deploy the activity on our Nosy Komba deployment > this year: 150 XO-1 and 50 XO-1.5. > > Because we’ve got other activities to deploy, we compute: > > - The free space on a XO-1 and XO-1.5 with Sugar 0.96 > without any activity: 550 Mo for XO-1, 2645Mo for XO-1.5. > > - The size of all activities that we planned to > install, see the spreadsheet [1]. > > Unfortunately 100 Mo is too big for the XO-1 with some other > big activities (GCompris, Tuxmath, TurtleArt, Speak, …). > > > > So I choose to develop a new version named “Abecedarium > Net” [2] without any content included, so with a size of only > 6Mo. > > The idea is to deploy all contents on a school/web server > instead of into the activity. A config file in the activity > has to be set with the URL of the content, or it could be set > from a dialog popup. The activity test the network regularly > and display the status. > > Because Abecedarium is wrote in HTML5, deploying the web > server just mean to copy the content of the full activity on > the server. > > I’ve explained the full process in the activity description. > > I will test it myself on our School Server at Madagascar but > do not hesitate in the meantime to test it and give me > feedback. > > > > Best regards from France. > > > >
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar future (was Re: Re: [DESIGN] Single instance activities)
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > On 12 April 2013 00:17, wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> When the XO was first designed it was an open choice for operating system, >> desktop and file manager. Some innovative choices were made to optimise the >> experience of new young users. Some I think were good, some bad. >> >> I think Android is the likely educational future. It is not an open choice >> like the XO. We do not control the OS and are unlikely to be able to control >> the desktop, file manager or Activity installation. >> >> I ask, what are the really important features of Sugar in this situation? >> Is it just the suite of Activities? Collaboration? What role do we see for >> Sugarlabs looking forward? > > > IMO taken alone the Sugar features are not worth much. A suite of activities > using a well designed, consistent UI paradigm, have some more value. If they > all use a powerful collaboration framework, even more. Etc. > > I don't think Android is necessarily the future. It's really hard to make > such predictions. Though, realistically, I don't see how we could get in a > situation where we can control hardware and OS again in the foreseeable > future. Perhaps the challenge is to figure out how to make the most > important Sugar features possible in this new context. And while at it > reevaluating some of the original choices. > > The HTML activities effort is going in that direction. I don't know if it's > the best possible approach, but it's a try to address the problem you are > pointing out. > > I wish I'd see the community > > * Acknowledge that we have a major issue > * Analyze it and try to figure out solutions > * Work on them together > > I'm not seeing any of those, if not in a few individuals, and that worries > me. Maybe people don't care or maybe there is a lack of leadership... I > don't know. _Lack_ of leadership is not the problem. _Transparency_ of leadership is the problem. Who stands to benefit or lose credit, control, or money if the status quo is disrupted? If you track that down, the why and how of decision making becomes clear. As I stated before, I accept that credit, control, and money influence decisions. It is the lack of transparency that causes people to become disillusioned and leave the project. Dave > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Patches -- Process and Culture
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: > Hey, > > want to start on that kind of analysis? :) James' self analysis is spot on. We all wear several 'hats' Sugar contributor, Employee or volunteer, person, . These hats bring bias which affect our decision making. To use myself as an example: I am squeezed between money and power. Activity Central provides technical service and support for deployments. Deployments pay us to meet very specific needs for them. Money -- Deployment pay us _only_what they think a fix or issues is worth to them. We, in turn, can only pay one of our developers what the deployment thinks their work is worth. Power -- Deployments tell us _exactly_ what they want us to do and how much time they are willing to pay us to do it. The business model meets a need which adds value to the ecosystem. However it does introduce conflicts. In the context of this discussion a key conflict is cost and value of up-streaming deployment specific 'fixes'. Dave > I've been considering some "cultural" factors but they are not related to > prestige and moneys, so they are probably pretty different from what > you have in mind here. > > > On Wednesday, 27 March 2013, David Farning wrote: >> >> Daniel Narvaez reopened an interesting thread that comes up every >> couple of years -- patch approval. This is an interesting and >> important issue to both the Sugar community and the OLPC ecosystem. >> >> In parallel to patch process, a discussion about culture might be >> beneficial. Sugar and OLPC are unique from many other free software >> projects. There is a significant amount of prestige power, and money >> at stake. >> >> Implementation of any specific patch process might be enhanced by >> considering cultural factors at play. >> >> -- >> David Farning >> _______ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > -- > Daniel Narvaez > -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Patches -- Process and Culture
Daniel Narvaez reopened an interesting thread that comes up every couple of years -- patch approval. This is an interesting and important issue to both the Sugar community and the OLPC ecosystem. In parallel to patch process, a discussion about culture might be beneficial. Sugar and OLPC are unique from many other free software projects. There is a significant amount of prestige power, and money at stake. Implementation of any specific patch process might be enhanced by considering cultural factors at play. -- David Farning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] x11vnc
Note sure if this is for sugar-devel or devel@ but possibly relevant to both I've been trying out 12.1.0 / 0.96.2 on an XO-1. I use Classroombroadcast in trainings, it is very useful. But I can't get x11vnc installed. Comes back with no package xorg-x11-server-Xvfb available Tried yum clean all etc and the repo folder has the contents below fedora.repo fedora-updates.repo fedora-updates-testing.repo olpc-f17.repo olpc-f17-xo1.repo rpmfusion-free-rawhide.repo rpmfusion-free.repo rpmfusion-free-updates.repo rpmfusion-free-updates-testing.repo rpmfusion-nonfree-rawhide.repo rpmfusion-nonfree.repo rpmfusion-nonfree-updates.repo rpmfusion-nonfree-updates-testing.repo David Leeming Solomon Islands ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Help with Browse Activity's offline mode
Hi! I'm doing some research with regards to the offline-mode and cache implementation of the Browse Activity; I'm currently doing some tests with the gecko Browse in Dextrose 3 but would be also interested on these features as present in the current webkit Browse. Could anybody help me or just point me in the right direction for asking or checking documentation about this? Mainly I need to know if there's a way of enabling the browsing of cached content when offline in either implementation of the Activity -- I don't know if it's even possible with the webkit backend -- Best regards, -- David Rodriguez Communications Infrastructure Activity Central: https://activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Proposal for "OUI" :- an Obvious User Interface
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Design_Team/Proposals#Proposal_for_.22OUI.22_:-_an_Obvious_User_Interface ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] python-speaking unix-guru user interface prototype implementer(s) and design critics/contributors solicited
just a general correlation). as a general principle, i am not in favour of discipline of any kind as an educational methodology. I perceive repetition/reiteration/ritual to inhibit mental reflection (which is why soldiers are drilled - precisely to stop them thinking). people engage in self-reflection naturally, especially when they are asleep (seriously! experiments have shown that the brain is more active when one is asleep than when awake, probably because the rest of the body is at rest and it doesnt have to burn energy on muscles etc). but the idea of the machine keeping a journal (ie states of activities) for its user is great - a button to pull up such a journal should be prominently on the start page so it's one of the first things you see when you turn the machine on again (this assumes activities are frequently ongoing from one session to another - kind of like the exercise books i wrote in at school 100 years ago). > What are the tangible things we should doing? i believe human interface developments should follow a spiral development methodology, revisiting, each cycle, the fundamental look and feel of the interface (as well as its functionality) in the light of marketplace developments and new ideas from outside as well as inside the development team. six years (since 2006) is maybe long enough for a first such cycle, so here is a proposal for a rethink of the basic look and feel: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Design_Team/Proposals >making [learning/playing groups] easier to discover/configure... Friend of a >friend is a nice suggestion. if a kid could see what other people in her neighbourhood are doing it would be interesting to her. eg suppose you want to make a toy sailing boat... unless you were the kind of person that insists on reinventing the wheel, you might like to look around to see who has done that or is doing it too. you would want to: Searchfor the search engine would match that against neighbourhood-wide activities and their cloud documents (if there were a cloud) < We have need for more ideas on how to make learning *more* visible. speaking as a child, i already know when i am learning something - i get a feeling of accomplishment when i understand something. and i know when i am not learning - i get bored/confused/etc - i don't need a teacher to tell me how many marks out of 10 i got. and i dont need to know whether i got more marks than my friend. people are competitive enough without systematising competition as a carrot (or stick!) to encourage (or force!) children to learn. Brazilian streetkids learn mental arithmetic much better than middle-class US schoolkids of the same age. Australian aboriginal kids brought up in the outback learn how to navigate in novel environments better than high-performing schoolkids from the city. in both cases, no teachers were giving them marks. the most compelling reinforcement is success - personal self-judged success, not success as judged by a teacher - nor even by a parent!!. the most influential judges on one's subjective self-esteem other than oneself are peers, not superiors, which is why authorities resort to policing to have their way. society may need policing, but not the inside of a kid's head. do unto others david ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] conversations about sugar ui design
etwork will have several > UIs for different purposes. i think it makes good sense to have different uis for different purposes; eg. teachers may want to maintain student progress records that kids wouldnt need to see (indeed, shouldnt, if it's to be non-competitive!). developers would need a whole different interface - maybe xubuntu or somesuch?? > I've CCed people who are working on current webui implementation (that > is intended to be piloted in several Peruvian schools). If you are have > time, you can help to make UI more useful. i'd like to try to assist/participate. my first suggestion would be to create a design forum so design discussions can flow and be retained. there is a design team meeting sometime soon, but i feel that the design process should be basically asynchronous and ongoing - one can't schedule one's brainwaves at just the right time during a brainstrorming session (most of my better ideas occur to me when i am on the toilet or thinking about something else or asleep...) < Discoverability is important, but just one of many concerns.> from a home base design point of view, i think discoverability is the single most important issue of all: the job of a ui is to provide discoverable access to what one can do with the thing new relases of uis could be distributed via the same physical distribution channels that got the xos to the various groups in the first place - on a usb stick on the back of a donkey if necessary. a major change to "look and feel" requires user-testing in the field. there is no reason why two different uis couldn't be available on the same platform. (eg i have xp and xubuntu on an old laptop less powerful than an xo; switching between them requires a reboot, but that wouldnt be necessary for a multlface sugar ui as there would be a common underlying implementation). if anyone would like to join me in trying to come up with a design of a more "obvious" alternative ui, here is a place where we could share/coalesce ideas/designs: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Design_Team/Proposals/Home_View Being a wiki talk page, it offers the advantage that it is a communal space that can be reworked so that it reflects current thinking/concensus of its contributors and provide a platform for the development and instantiation of conceptual design. It also obviates the need for participants to reiterate their views in ten different conversations about the same thing and allows those views to be modified/retracted since it is not a historical record. hopefully it wont get hacked. david -- website <http://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/home> +61(0)266537638 +61(0)488471949 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar ui + learning language
comprehensive reply Edward, thanks. and thanks Fred for sorting out my wiki cursor for me. but the cursor i'd really like users to be able to personalise is the one on the sugaronastick ui. re programming: i am not a programmer any more. it was fun when i was 16 in 1965, but i breathed a sigh of relief in 1976 when i finished my PhD and said to myself "thank goodness i dont have to write any more programs!" as it happens, i did write some Smalltalk (in Xerox's The Analyst) in 1988 and some Nexpert and other stuff in 1994. so you might say that i understand the lot of a programmer and wouldnt make outrageous demands of developers, but i am unable/unwilling to contribute to code myself. rather, i would like to contribute ui design ideas and some ideas on language learning aids/tools/methods. on that subject, you mention, in regard to my comment about the ton of language stuff already out there: > Indeed, although we have generally found existing software not to be > suited for schoolchildren. i was referring not to software, but to videos and other materials. i've mentioned it elsewhere, but i reckon that to learn a language at any age requires being able to speak to another human. everyone starts learning language from age 0 but xo is maybe suitable only for us once we have some finger dexterity at around age 3 maybe... aibo would be a good vehicle for language learning software, or an xo driven robot??... re mailists; i think forums with threads are a better medium for communication content retention i will browse the links you provided Edward, and get back to you individually on them later curricula must change when computers radically > change what schoolchildren are capable of learning computers wont change what people are capable of learning (only evolution can do that), but they can help people learn more quickly and internet enables us to step beyond the mind of a schoolroom teacher. but computer use can also inhibit learning of other things if it becomes obsessive. as for curricula, i have radical views<https://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/SCHOOLS.RTF?attredirects=0&d=1>about that but olpc must work within the context of what civic authorities set in order to benefit the kids who are the objects (not the subjects!) of those authorities. revolutions in education take centuries, not decades. a week is a long time in politics, but a century is a blink of the eye in the evolution of social structures and their memes. david On 12 August 2012 11:36, wrote: > Welcome. > > On Thu, August 9, 2012 10:18 pm, David Brown wrote: > > -- Forwarded message -- > > From: David Brown > > Date: 10 August 2012 12:13 > > Subject: sugar ui > > To: Frederick Grose , xordu...@gmail.com, > > volunt...@laptop.org > > > > > > dear olpcers, > > > > i am a recently retired computer scientist who would like to contribute > > design ideas to the project. my cv is > > here<https://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/CV.doc> > > . > > Ah, another generalist. Excellent. I will want to ask you about the > Alhambra tiling semiotics at some point. Some of my Sufi friends have > mentioned that sort of thing in connection with NeoPlatonism. > > I see an item in Algol68, but you do not mention what other languages you > have worked in. Sugar mainly uses Python, Logo, and Smalltalk, and I am > trying to get a version of APL added that has been used for math > textbooks, starting with elementary-school arithmetic. > > > having looked at the sugar interface, my first impression is that it > needs > > a complete rework. i do not know what its users (kids) make of it > though, > > nor can i find any data on user experiences. > > I and others have documented some of the known issues in the Wiki at > > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable > > I know of no research specifically on the UI in classrooms. We do have > some classroom research on other aspects of the project. > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_research > > > i'm disappointed not to find any openly-published separately-produced k12 > > stuff on xo; perhaps it is all platform-dependent? > > Yes, Sugar is a platform with very specific features, such as > collaboration and the Journal. > > See Make Your Own Sugar Activities > > http://en.flossmanuals.net/make-your-own-sugar-activities/ > > Sugar Activities are openly published at > http://activities.sugarlabs.org//en-US/sugar/ and some have made their way > into various Linux distributions. > > > sugar is based on > > fedora i believe, so would it run any app written for fedora? > > Yes. Recent XOs have enough room to run Gnome in addition to Sugar, so > users can install any Fedora soft
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar ui
;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi4nl9_Ny0I&feature=related>Learn English online. With our podcast, learning English is easy. | EnglishClass101.com <http://www.englishclass101.com/video>INSEARCH English Resources <http://elearning.insearch.edu.au/courses/GE01_Wk1.asp>English resources and lesson plans | Guardian Teacher Network | guardian.co.uk<http://teachers.guardian.co.uk/subject/english.aspx>Learn English Language | Students Circle Network<http://studentscircle.net/live/category/english/>OCW Consortium - Advanced Course Search<http://www.ocwconsortium.org/index.php?option=com_coursefinder&view=search&uss=1&Itemid=9&q=english&l=>BBC - Podcasts - Learning <http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/genre/learning> david On 11 August 2012 00:52, Walter Bender wrote: > On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:18 PM, David Brown wrote: > > > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > > From: David Brown > > Date: 10 August 2012 12:13 > > Subject: sugar ui > > To: Frederick Grose , xordu...@gmail.com, > > volunt...@laptop.org > > > > > > dear olpcers, > > > > i am a recently retired computer scientist who would like to contribute > > design ideas to the project. my cv is here. > > > > having looked at the sugar interface, my first impression is that it > needs a > > complete rework. i do not know what its users (kids) make of it though, > nor > > can i find any data on user experiences. > > There is little data in English, since most Sugar users are not native > English speakers. But there are quite a few studies in Spanish > (although less specific to the UI details and more focused on the > overall impact.) You can find some materials here: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Recursos_en_espanol#Evaluaci.C3.B3n_de_Proyectos > > > > > i'm disappointed not to find any openly-published separately-produced k12 > > stuff on xo; perhaps it is all platform-dependent? > > Not sure what you are referring to. > > > sugar is based on fedora > > i believe, so would it run any app written for fedora? > > Yes... but not all apps run equally as well, since Sugar restricts > apps to single windows. (e.g., inkscape works well, the gimp not so > well). > > > > > aside from that, i would be interested to contribute to an english > language > > learning project. there is a ton of stuff already out there which could > be > > collected together, rather than reinvent the wheel. > > Lots of separate efforts in the area. C. Scott is leading one. I am > working with .NI and .PY on another. Love to get more input/help. > > > > > is there a software development management structure? who makes the > release > > decisions? > > We have a devel team and release managers. > > > > > is there an olpc executive operations management structure? why isnt > olpc > > in bed with national school curriculum/materials organisations? or > maybe it > > is - but if so, why aren't xos available to schools who can afford to buy > > them? > > It is a country by country decision. OLPC doesn't have the resources > to operate unilaterally, nor should it. > > > > > what is the target age range of xo users? > > 6-12. The new machines with touch could reach a younger audience. > > > > > i like the notion of sugar network, but when i look at the screenshots on > > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Tutorial i find it hard to > > imagine what a child would do with it. a screen full of coloured x's > does > > not convey any useful information other than the number of them... it > reads > > as if it was made by unix enthusiasts for unix enthusiasts > > > > scott's blog mentions an effort last year to develop narrative > interfaces - > > this sounds like a good idea, did anything come of it? i looked at the > > video by Angela Chang but couldn't find any contact info for her. i > noticed > > the text she was displaying is not read out aloud at the time it is > > displayed, which i would have thought is vital for a language learning > tool. > > she also seems to be of a mind that children would use it with their > parents > > in attendance, but children need to be able to learn a foreign language > > without their parents' help. > > > > this raises a general point, surely xo needs to be an "obvious" > interface?? > > (ie users should not need any outside help to use it. it should be > "ready > > to hand"). > > Easier said than done. But your ideas for making things more "obv
[Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar ui
-- Forwarded message -- From: David Brown Date: 10 August 2012 12:13 Subject: sugar ui To: Frederick Grose , xordu...@gmail.com, volunt...@laptop.org dear olpcers, i am a recently retired computer scientist who would like to contribute design ideas to the project. my cv is here<https://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/CV.doc> . having looked at the sugar interface, my first impression is that it needs a complete rework. i do not know what its users (kids) make of it though, nor can i find any data on user experiences. i'm disappointed not to find any openly-published separately-produced k12 stuff on xo; perhaps it is all platform-dependent? sugar is based on fedora i believe, so would it run any app written for fedora? aside from that, i would be interested to contribute to an english language learning project. there is a ton of stuff already out there which could be collected together, rather than reinvent the wheel. is there a software development management structure? who makes the release decisions? is there an olpc executive operations management structure? why isnt olpc in bed with national school curriculum/materials organisations? or maybe it is - but if so, why aren't xos available to schools who can afford to buy them? what is the target age range of xo users? i like the notion of sugar network, but when i look at the screenshots on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Tutorial i find it hard to imagine what a child would do with it. a screen full of coloured x's does not convey any useful information other than the number of them... it reads as if it was made by unix enthusiasts for unix enthusiasts scott's blog mentions an effort last year to develop narrative interfaces - this sounds like a good idea, did anything come of it? i looked at the video by Angela Chang but couldn't find any contact info for her. i noticed the text she was displaying is not read out aloud at the time it is displayed, which i would have thought is vital for a language learning tool. she also seems to be of a mind that children would use it with their parents in attendance, but children need to be able to learn a foreign language without their parents' help. this raises a general point, surely xo needs to be an "obvious" interface?? (ie users should not need any outside help to use it. it should be "ready to hand"). david website <http://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/home> +61(0)266537638 +61(0)488471949 On 10 August 2012 01:58, Frederick Grose wrote: > On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 12:51 AM, David Brown wrote: > >> thanks for your comprehensive reply, Fred. i have looked at the links >> you cited. i am surprised olpc is still using irc chat and mail lists - is >> there an operational reason for this? > > > The hardware & software developers at OLPC and Sugar Labs are most > comfortable with IRC and mailing lists as they are part of their current > cultural tradition (they feel part > of<http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC:What_we_mean_by_free_and_open>the > free/libre/open-source > software > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software>tradition). Many > are loath to using alternative, especially commercial > software. The support staff and others at OLPC might be excepted from this > characterization (in my estimation) as their work tools must align with > standard business software. > > things like design require a lot of thought, and chat is not the best way >> to provoke thought, as exemplified by the inanity of academic department >> meetings!. chat is good for one-on-one socialising though. >> >> here is one basic principle i would advocate:the xo interface (which is >> intendedly predicated upon activity and communication) needs to be good >> enough (suitable) for xo developers to use it for their own group >> communication it's clearly not as it stands. >> >> you mention "developers" and i read somewhere about "core developers". i >> imagine there is a team somewhere, probably in Miami, that drives the >> development. those are the people i would like to communicate with to >> start with, to jointly come up with a better basic design than the current >> one. then it could be implemented, bench tested and then beta tested on >> the user community. >> > > The basic Sugar design came from > Pentagram<http://new.pentagram.com/2006/12/new-work-one-laptop-per-child/> > 's Lisa Strausfeld, Christian Marc Schmidt and Takaaki Okada > collaborating with Walter Bender and Eben Eliason at OLPC. Only Walter > Bender is active with Sugar Labs or OLPC. > > C. Scott Ananian, Director of New Technologies at OLPC, has a > blog<http:/
Re: [Sugar-devel] XO names when sharing with server
> David Leeming writes: > I am sure this has been covered before, but would appreciate a > reference to the thread... > his is the relevant ticket: SL#2355 [1]. ? Did you use freshly-installed clients (XO-1s) or did you retain any data >From previous installations (either by upgrading or restoring from backup after flashing)? Yes, newly installed clients and server. But let me confirm that again in a couple of days when I have a chance to reproduce it again. > Sascha > [1] https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2355 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Server-devel] XO names when sharing with server
Thanks, I added my observations to the ticket. David Sounds like http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10750 Maybe some hints there. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] XO names when sharing with server
I am sure this has been covered before, but would appreciate a reference to the thread... I am using XO-1s, release 11.3.0 (build 883) with Sugar 0.94.1 and we are still using XS version 0.6 with the latest updates. When using XOs connected and registered on the server to collaborate, the names of XOs which populate the neighbourhood view are displayed as very long strings ending something like @schoolserver.fqdn.org rather the correct friendly "name". This also affects how activities perform when collaborating. Connect for instance, becomes difficult to use because the long name of the joined XO causes the playing area to resize to a small area on the right of screen. It doesn't seem to do this when using the mesh. Not sure if this is a server, the OS build or Sugar issue. It used to be fine with earlier XO builds and the same server version. Apologies if this has been covered before - if there is a ticket I can view or whatnot, would appreciate the tip. David Leeming Solomon Islands ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Nutrition Activity very effective
Just want to give some quick feedback from a small but active deployment in Papua New Guinea. Nutrition is a really great way to get teachers to see the potentials because in our region as (probably) in many others the primary school system is now using the rich task or thematic approach. You can use it to teach many subjects but made relevant and real for students from the context. I have just facilitated some workshops for a NGO-led deployment and this activity was a fantastic hook to make the potentials relevant to their needs. We noted that local foods can be added which is great. But we were not sure about one default foodstuff in the Activity, the brown chunk with holes... David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link www.rurallink.com.sb ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Browse or Moodle-XS error - Redirect Loop Redirection limit reached
Hello, I am running a training session on the school server but not sure if my problem is Browse or XS so copying to both lists. The trainees are teachers, learning the basics - they have zero computing experience. We are using Browse 129.1 and XS 0.6 with current updates. They have learned to connect to the wireless network and register. The group size is 25 and there are more than one (4 actually) physical access points. Moodle-XS is used to present links to folders of resources via URL aliases. Example, a link such as http://schoolserver/MyResource pointing at folder /library/myresource thus, the resources don't actually need Moodle to work. Suddenly all the trainees when trying to access the server Moodle pages with Browse get the error: Redirect Loop : Redirection limit for this URL exceeded. I can type in the URL alias http://schoolserver/MyResource manually and it will display the content OK. So it seems to be a Moodle issue? How to deal with it? I have never seen this before ... David ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Mobile dongles - XO-1 with release 11.3.0
These work in PNG, tested over Digicel network but I assume they will work generally. These might be the standard types used by Digicel in other countries. Trick as stated is to put something in the username/password fields in My Settings/Modem Config even if those fields are not used. ZTE Corp DC87-0 Huawei E173 Alcatel X220D David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link P.O.Box 652 Honiara, Solomon Islands +677 7476396 (m) +677 24419 (h) www.rurallink.com.sb -Original Message- From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of David Leeming Sent: Monday, 26 March 2012 4:06 p.m. To: 'James Cameron' Cc: 'Sugar devel' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Mobile dongles - XO-1 with release 11.3.0 Yes, the APN was added as I have indicated. I did try this with both mobile web providers, but as I'm not in PNg now I can't reproduce it. I suppose I am wanting to know if there might be anything else required, such as device drivers. David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link -Original Message- From: qu...@us.netrek.org [mailto:qu...@us.netrek.org] On Behalf Of James Cameron Sent: Monday, 26 March 2012 2:58 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: 'Sugar devel' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Mobile dongles - XO-1 with release 11.3.0 Perhaps you did not configure the modem in the control panel? Right-click on the centre icon in the activity ring, select My Settings, then Modem. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Installing gstreamer media codecs on XO-1 (solved)
All done and it works well. It was a question of trying to do it without fully understanding the process. In summary, steps 1 and 2 using gstreamer-plugins-ugly and gstreamer-ffmpeg were all that were needed. The rpms thus collected were then tested on a freshly installed XO and all working, further enhanced by addition of the Adobe Flash 11 rpm. Thanks for helping! I'm all set now to do this offline in the field. rpm -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-stable.noa rch.rpm rpm -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-stab le.noarch.rpm yum install -y yum-utils navigate to a USB stick mkdir myrpms cd myrpms yumdownloader --resolve gstreamer-plugins-ugly yumdownloader --resolve gstreamer-ffmpeg Download Flash 11 rpm from Adobe and add to myrpms On newly installed XO navigate to myrpms and rpm -Uhv *.rpm tested on XO-1 build 883 David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link -Original Message- From: Martin Langhoff [mailto:martin.langh...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 4 April 2012 6:14 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: Kevin Mark; Sugar devel; OLPC Devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Installing gstreamer media codecs on XO-1 On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:06 AM, David Leeming wrote: > A few stumbling blocks for me; > > (1) the two localinstall commands below each need Internet connections to > succeed on a fresh install, or the error is "cannot retrieve repository > metadata". Correct. This is the preparation stage, where you need internet to prepare a USB stick. We cannot perform magic transfer of files yet :-) > (2) I don't know what to use for "package1 package 2 etc"; I tried using > gstreamer-plugins-ugly and gstreamer-ffmpeg and it says "no match for > argument". Those are probably the package names you want. I would say gstreamer-ffmpeg gstreamer-plugins-bad gstreamer-plugins-ugly If it is not finding them, after you've successfully completed step 1, maybe you need to also pass an --enablerepo=rpmfusion* option to yumdownloader. > (3) So I also need to download the dependencies of the two rpmfusion rpms. > What is the "package name"? The package names are the names of the packages you want as discussed in step 2 above. I really feel we are going in circles here. Perhaps a read of the documentation for yumdownloader will help you picture what it does, so you can figure things out a bit more independently? cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Installing gstreamer media codecs on XO-1
start from a fresh install on an XO yum localinstall --nogpgcheck rpmfusion-free-stable.rpm yum localinstall --nogpgcheck rpmfusion-nonfree-stable.rpm yum install yum-utils (may be yumutils) mkdir myrpms cd myrpms yumdownloader --resolve package1 package2 ... packageN Once yumdownloader is done, the relevant rpms and their dependencies are in the myrpms directory. Copy the directory to USB flash disk. This has been the preparation stage. Now take that USB flash disk to existing XOs, command is: rpm -Uvh /media/mydisk/myrpms/*rpm alternatively yum localinstall /media/mydisk/myrpms/*rpm This thread started a long tome ago on de...@lists.laptop.org, it has nothing to do with sugar. Now sure how we landed here. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Installing gstreamer media codecs on XO-1
A few stumbling blocks for me; (1) the two localinstall commands below each need Internet connections to succeed on a fresh install, or the error is "cannot retrieve repository metadata". (2) I don't know what to use for "package1 package 2 etc"; I tried using gstreamer-plugins-ugly and gstreamer-ffmpeg and it says "no match for argument". (3) So I also need to download the dependencies of the two rpmfusion rpms. What is the "package name"? start from a fresh install on an XO yum localinstall --nogpgcheck rpmfusion-free-stable.rpm yum localinstall --nogpgcheck rpmfusion-nonfree-stable.rpm yum install yum-utils (may be yumutils) mkdir myrpms cd myrpms yumdownloader --resolve package1 package2 ... packageN Once yumdownloader is done, the relevant rpms and their dependencies are in the myrpms directory. Copy the directory to USB flash disk. This has been the preparation stage. Now take that USB flash disk to existing XOs, command is: rpm -Uvh /media/mydisk/myrpms/*rpm alternatively yum localinstall /media/mydisk/myrpms/*rpm This thread started a long tome ago on de...@lists.laptop.org, it has nothing to do with sugar. Now sure how we landed here. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Installing gstreamer media codecs on XO-1
Martin, My current procedure with Internet connection is as follows yum localinstall --nogpgcheck rpmfusion-free-stable.rpm yum localinstall --nogpgcheck rpmfusion-nonfree-stable.rpm yum install -y gstreamer-plugins-ugly yum install -y gstreamer-ffmpeg Each of the stages above (even the localinstalls) require Internet access to download stuff. To do as you suggest, how would I now use yumdownloader? Sorry I am a little slow in the up[take on this :( David -Original Message- From: Martin Langhoff [mailto:martin.langh...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2012 1:03 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: Kevin Mark; Sugar devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Installing gstreamer media codecs on XO-1 On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:51 AM, David Leeming wrote: > I am interested in trying this out, as I am going to be doing some teacher > training workshops in remote PNG areas where there is no Internet access. the quickest, surest path is use yumdownloader --resolve to grab all the rpms, and have them on a USB stick. Steps were discussed on this same email threads. I can't think of an easier path for a small to moderate number of units. You could build an OS image, set it up on the XS for auto-installation on the XOs, and run olpc-update. But there's a sizable amount of prep in that, so unless you prepped it all back when you prepped the OS image they have _now_, you end up still needing to mess with each laptop. In the end, you only need to say "sudo rpm -Uvh *rpm" on each unit. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Installing gstreamer media codecs on XO-1
-Original Message- From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Mark Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2012 4:03 p.m. To: Kevin Mark Cc: David Leeming; 'Sugar devel' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Installing gstreamer media codecs on XO-1 On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 03:29:03AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote: > > 3. is the update step above necessary (it requires downloading 33MB) > > I have not tried this, it may be. I dont know the complete list of rpms that it > installed other then the 2 you said. those 2 might work with the current > packages or they might need to update a few packages and download the needed > dependencies which means the update is needed. This sounds like it might need > a local 'proxy'/mirror server to the needed rpms. so the xo's could do the 'rpm > update' but would get the 'update' and the needed rpms from a local server. > this would need the XOs to alter their rpm repo list. i'm not a rpm expert, so > you'd need to test a solution to ensure it works and does not alter other > support issues. > > old way: > XO->Fedora server (per each XO over the global internet) > vs > new way: > local Fedora server->Fedora server (via the global internet one time) > XO->local Fedora server(per each XO over a local area network (LAN)) I am interested in trying this out, as I am going to be doing some teacher training workshops in remote PNG areas where there is no Internet access. They will need to view resources that I will be making available on a server (XS-0.6). It seems that I can't reliably install these codecs from the rpms alone, without the XO wanting to connect and download stuff. Is there any way I can set up the mirror server as you describe on the XS, so that I can carry that to the remote area and have the XOs use that to get the updates? And how? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Browse failed to start
As is typical, as soon as one reports the error it starts to work perfectly. As soon as it happens again I will send the log. David rom: dir...@gmail.com [mailto:dir...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Rafael Ortiz Sent: Monday, 2 April 2012 4:33 a.m. To: Gonzalo Odiard Cc: David Leeming; Sugar devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Browse failed to start On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 11:36 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: Can you attach the log of Browse when do not start? Look in your directory /home/olpc/.sugar/default/logs a file named as org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log (you will have one file for every time you run the activity, select the file with the bigger number) You can use the activity Terminal or Log to get the file. Logs Appreciated indeed, I've been using Browse 129 and 129.1 on both XO-1.5 and XO-1.75 w/o these starting problems. So I'm assuming that these could be memory related errors when there are too many activities open on the XO-1.0. Cheers. Gonzalo On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 1:14 AM, David Leeming wrote: Hello, Quite often I get an error “Browse failed to start” when starting Browse, after having used it successfully. It is hard to identify and reproduce the conditions leading to the error, but when it happens the only recourse is to reboot the XO and then it starts OK. Would appreciate some information on troubleshooting this; XO-1 Build 883 Sugar 0.94.1 Browse 129.1 Flash 11 plugin installed (if that is relevant) David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Browse failed to start
Hello, Quite often I get an error "Browse failed to start" when starting Browse, after having used it successfully. It is hard to identify and reproduce the conditions leading to the error, but when it happens the only recourse is to reboot the XO and then it starts OK. Would appreciate some information on troubleshooting this; XO-1 Build 883 Sugar 0.94.1 Browse 129.1 Flash 11 plugin installed (if that is relevant) David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Mobile dongles - XO-1 with release 11.3.0
Yes, the APN was added as I have indicated. I did try this with both mobile web providers, but as I'm not in PNg now I can't reproduce it. I suppose I am wanting to know if there might be anything else required, such as device drivers. David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link -Original Message- From: qu...@us.netrek.org [mailto:qu...@us.netrek.org] On Behalf Of James Cameron Sent: Monday, 26 March 2012 2:58 p.m. To: David Leeming Cc: 'Sugar devel' Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Mobile dongles - XO-1 with release 11.3.0 Perhaps you did not configure the modem in the control panel? Right-click on the centre icon in the activity ring, select My Settings, then Modem. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Mobile dongles - XO-1 with release 11.3.0
Hello, I need some help with testing mobile dongles with the XO-1 running release 11.3.0 (build 883). I have one old ZTE DC87 modem locked to Digicel that I have tried. I added the APN to the modem configuration. When plugged in, Sugar recognises a "wireless modem" is plugged in and shows the icon on the frame. If I click "connect" it tells me no GSM connection is available. Is something missing? Do I need to install any drivers for the USB stick? How best to troubleshoot Are there any recommended third party USB sticks that I can use with any network? Maybe someone has experience with Digicel sticks - this will be for PNG where they have GSM and GPRS mobile web networks. David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Installing gstreamer media codecs on XO-1
I have tried to install media codecs on an XO-1 running 11.3.0 so that we can play FLV video files directly (from a flashdrive, school server or network location)., in either Sugar or GNOME. I had trouble getting it work using the instructions at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/GStreamer#Totem_plugin - I think it is outdated. After some research and trial and error (lots!!) I have it working, some using XO-1 may find useful The below works on an XO-1 running 11.3.0 freshly installed. It works in Gnome using Totem/Movie Player and in Sugar using Jukebox Activity. It plays mp3 audio and FLV video OK (such as the Khan Academy collection, which we have loaded on the school servers in project schools) We also add the Flash plug in for the browser and disable "click to view". This allows embedded flash animations and FLV videos accessed with Browse, Youtube, etc to play with good performance. Note that Flash version 11 is much better than v10. So bringing it all together, I reproduced the above using the following. - XO-1 running 11.3.0, fresh install - In Gnome view in a terminal, as su - wireless Internet connection yum localinstall --nogpgcheck http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-stable.noa rch.rpm http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-stab le.noarch.rpm yum install -y gstreamer-plugins-ugly yum install -y gstreamer-ffmpeg rm /home/olpc/Activities/Browse.activity/agent-stylesheet.css rm /home/olpc/Activities/Browse.activity/clickToView.xml navigate to the flash rpm and run rpm -Uhv flash.rpm where flash.rpm is the Flash verion 11 RPM for Linux 32 bit from Adobe. Questions 1. Is the above the right way to do it, if someone with more Fedora experience than I can verify.. 2. In our narrowband countries it takes an hour and downloads a lot per laptop, this is unworkable in PNG with large numbers of XOs and where the bandwidth is so expensive and unreliable. Isn't there a way to do this offline with a download, something we can run on a flashdrive? 3. is the update step above necessary (it requires downloading 33MB) 4. In doing the above am I violating a ton of licenses? David Leeming Solomon Islands Rural Link www.rurallink.com.sb ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Proposed addition to Sugar
Hi Chris, > You are, of course, free to keep your code where ever you would like, > but if you would like to get a significant number of actual users, it > would be advisable to be set up for i18n and L10n (most Sugar users > do not speak English). This is much easier to do if you host your code > on the Sugar Labs Gitorious instance. I have my gitorious account ready to go, and am looking for some guidance on setup and development workflow, particularly for regular builds. My existing code on github is not integrated with sugar code (didn't fork a sugar project, just stored my changes in isolation) so I'm planning to make a clone of sugar's core and manually applying my existing code to the clone. Does this sound sensible, or is there another approach that will make things easier? Which repo/branch would be best to clone? sugar/mainline? I want to be able to run regular builds and work with the sugar emulator. It looks like I can use jhbuild for this, by pointing it at my local clone of my repo - am I on the right track with this? Is there a wiki page with instructions around this? Is F16 a good choice of distro, or will another be easier to set up? Cheers, David Mason Software Engineer L10n Engineering Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd Level 1, 193 North Quay Brisbane 4000 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Speak 33 voice chat problem on XO-1 11.3.0
On Tue, 2012-01-31 at 20:11 +1000, David Leeming wrote: >> I have been trying OLPC release 11.3.0 / build 883 (Sugar 0.94.1) on >> the XO-1. >> >> Has anyone noticed an issue in using voice chat, with the above >> equipment specification? Maybe it was just me but I was unable to get >> any audio of a shared chat text on the joined XO(s). Tried with XS >> server and with XO mesh. I am used to this activity on earlier >> versions of Speak and have never had any problems. > We tested this today and found that on both the XO-1 and XO-1.75 Speak > does not speak incoming messages. Outgoing messages were spoken. Is this > what you are talking about? > We also found two more bugs. When joining a shared session, Speak does > not focus the shared chat screen but instead drops the user in the > "speak what I type" screen. When entering Voice chat mode with the > activity shared, you get a spoken warning that the activity is offline. Hi Tom Yes, that is precisely what we experienced. With earlier version Speak-11 voice chat spoke incoming messages OK and joined users into the collaboration. David ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH] sl#2815: Localization fixes.
Hi Chris, > I'm sure Zanata is a fine tool, but we've developed a L10n community > around our Pootle instance and they are familiar with Pootle and we > are pretty good at managing our Pootle instance and it's interactions > with Gitorious, so I do not see any reason at present to consider > switching, but I will spend some time looking over Zanata to better > understand what it has to offer. You're right, at present Zanata is less mature than Pootle, so it would be inappropriate to change. Let me know if you have any questions or want a hand getting into Zanata to check it out. Cheers, David Mason Software Engineer L10n Engineering Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd Level 1, 193 North Quay Brisbane 4000 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Speak 33 voice chat problem on XO-1 11.3.0
Rafael, The previous version with fully working voice chat was Speak-11. The one bundled in 0.94.1 is version 33. I would like to know if anyone has actually tested voice chat, with audio transmitted to the sharing XOs, using XO-1s with build 883 / release 11.3.0 David On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 5:11 AM, David Leeming wrote: I have been trying OLPC release 11.3.0 / build 883 (Sugar 0.94.1) on the XO-1. Has anyone noticed an issue in using voice chat, with the above equipment specification? Maybe it was just me but I was unable to get any audio of a shared chat text on the joined XO(s). Tried with XS server and with XO mesh. I am used to this activity on earlier versions of Speak and have never had any problems. David Leeming in PNG I haven't experienced this issue, it would be worth to investigate. In which previous versions this was working for you? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Speak 33 voice chat problem on XO-1 11.3.0
I have been trying OLPC release 11.3.0 / build 883 (Sugar 0.94.1) on the XO-1. Has anyone noticed an issue in using voice chat, with the above equipment specification? Maybe it was just me but I was unable to get any audio of a shared chat text on the joined XO(s). Tried with XS server and with XO mesh. I am used to this activity on earlier versions of Speak and have never had any problems. David Leeming in PNG ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Localisation of Socialcalc activity in different languages
- Original Message - > From: "Anurag Chowdhury" > To: "sugar-devel" > Sent: Thursday, 26 January, 2012 2:57:53 AM > Subject: [Sugar-devel] Localisation of Socialcalc activity in different > languages > > > > Hi all, > > I am working on the localisation of the socialcalc activity on sugar > in different languages for which I am in need of some pointers as > follows: > > 1) After making the translations of the string in msgid to the > required language (starting with bengali) as portrayed below > What should be the next step following the creation of bn.po file > (for bengali) also I would need a detailed pointer on creation of > .po files. After you have translations in your po file, you can use msgmerge to compile them into .mo files. After this you'll need to configure gettext to use translations for the appropriate locale. Is this the type of information you're looking for? As for .po format, a detailed reference can be found at http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#PO-Files You could also consider having your project added to Zanata (see www.zanata.org), which will allow you to enter translations in the web interface and will generate po files for you automatically. Cheers, David Mason Software Engineer L10n Engineering Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd Level 1, 193 North Quay Brisbane 4000 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
