Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > I tried it by hand yesterday and added our sugar repo to the yum config does > work fine. The question is how we create that file now. We could do it in > the kickstart file - but maybe there are other options? You could also use a package... not really sure. What about asking on fedora-olpc about the best way to do it? Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? >> If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, >> many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. > > But you don't actually need to download images each time. yum update > works fine... > > Marco I tried it by hand yesterday and added our sugar repo to the yum config does work fine. The question is how we create that file now. We could do it in the kickstart file - but maybe there are other options? Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Yeah, I know... its what gave me the idea... kudos... ;-) David... On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Simon Peter wrote: > 2009/1/31 David Van Assche : >> Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits >> (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in >> and does the sugar stuff Then people could use their distro to >> create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for >> sugar and its activities... > > I've done exactly that in Sbuntu: > http://dev.laptop.org/~probono/sbuntu/ > > (You take a stock Ubuntu 8.10 USB stick, and simply add the file > sugar.squashfs to the directory casper/ on that stick - done.) > > Unfortunately the Fedrora Live CD infrastucture doesn't support this yet: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470879 > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
2009/1/31 David Van Assche : > Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits > (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in > and does the sugar stuff Then people could use their distro to > create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for > sugar and its activities... I've done exactly that in Sbuntu: http://dev.laptop.org/~probono/sbuntu/ (You take a stock Ubuntu 8.10 USB stick, and simply add the file sugar.squashfs to the directory casper/ on that stick - done.) Unfortunately the Fedrora Live CD infrastucture doesn't support this yet: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470879 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Yes yum install would work Sent from my iPhone Caroline Meeks 617-395-7966 On Jan 31, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer > wrote: >> Ok, did not think about yum update. >> >> Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit >> to have >> though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to >> make mac >> users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. > > Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can > play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they > would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. > That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can > explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have > them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). > > Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Low floor no ceiling A 4 year old should not face a dialog box asking gnome or sugar. A 12 year old with experience should be able to break out of sugar to the full power of Linux. It's ok with me if the 12 year old has to toto a page in a wiki to do it. Doesn't have to be super easy just possible. Thanks Sent from my iPhone Caroline Meeks 617-395-7966 On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:00 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:53 PM, David Van Assche > wrote: >> You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose >> sugar >> or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever >> other apps... > > gdm was eating quite a bit of memory last time I tried. Also Caroline > didn't want to have a choice visible in the UI, she wants Soas to look > very clean and straightforward, advanced users can go to the shell if > they want to use GNOME. (Again reporting her rationale, and hoping to > do it correctly, but I tend to agree). > > Marco > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > David Van Assche wrote: >> Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar >> in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu >> has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems >> very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro. >> Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a >> commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP >> sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to >> really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning >> objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu >> is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too >> >> kind Regards, >> David Van Assche > > Yeah, I agree! The folks at KDE are doing a great job with their kdeedu > stuff. I came across this here recently, looks like a good plan to me > [1]; thanks to Greg for referring me to it. ;) > > I'm not feared either of mixing Gnome, KDE and Sugar apps (XFCE is also > our Fedora spin), but there're some questions coming into my mind: > > * How can we promote Sugar best? > > So. Obviously the question would also be whether it makes sense to > include Sugar in a general Fedora Education Spin (e.g. which includes > also kdeedu). But how would this work? I mean would we just have to > desktops there, or how can we provide the best usability? And would > something like this worth targeting F11? > > If the answer to the last question is 'yes', I'd need to hurry a bit > with modifying the kickstart and talking other folks. > > * How can we prevent us from doing duplicated work? > > Does it make sense to release Sugar on a Stick and a Fedora Sugar Spin > at the same time, with just marginal differences (e.g. having more > activities in SoaS but the Fedora trademark in the latter one)? > > Or would it e.g. be worth considering to drop e.g. the Fedora Sugar Spin > and focus instead on SoaS *and* and inclusion of Sugar on a complete > Education Spin? > > I think this really needs to be discussed. If you want to, even at > FOSDEM ;). These are just some thoughts and I'm not quite sure, where > this will end up, though. > > --Sebastian /me reminds himself of adding links before pushing the "send"-button. [1] http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/Education >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas >> wrote: >>> Simon Schampijer schrieb: David Van Assche wrote: > What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager > (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated > as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as > does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it > might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for > all educational groups... > > David If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. >>> I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome >>> and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can >>> just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] >>> >>> The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware >>> than the XO. >>> >>> --Sebastian >>> >>> [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree >>> Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that and offer space for the user he can write to as well. Cheers, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
David Van Assche wrote: > Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar > in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu > has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems > very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro. > Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a > commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP > sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to > really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning > objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu > is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too > > kind Regards, > David Van Assche Yeah, I agree! The folks at KDE are doing a great job with their kdeedu stuff. I came across this here recently, looks like a good plan to me [1]; thanks to Greg for referring me to it. ;) I'm not feared either of mixing Gnome, KDE and Sugar apps (XFCE is also our Fedora spin), but there're some questions coming into my mind: * How can we promote Sugar best? So. Obviously the question would also be whether it makes sense to include Sugar in a general Fedora Education Spin (e.g. which includes also kdeedu). But how would this work? I mean would we just have to desktops there, or how can we provide the best usability? And would something like this worth targeting F11? If the answer to the last question is 'yes', I'd need to hurry a bit with modifying the kickstart and talking other folks. * How can we prevent us from doing duplicated work? Does it make sense to release Sugar on a Stick and a Fedora Sugar Spin at the same time, with just marginal differences (e.g. having more activities in SoaS but the Fedora trademark in the latter one)? Or would it e.g. be worth considering to drop e.g. the Fedora Sugar Spin and focus instead on SoaS *and* and inclusion of Sugar on a complete Education Spin? I think this really needs to be discussed. If you want to, even at FOSDEM ;). These are just some thoughts and I'm not quite sure, where this will end up, though. --Sebastian > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas > wrote: >> Simon Schampijer schrieb: >>> David Van Assche wrote: What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for all educational groups... David >>> If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. >>> Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily >>> customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. >> I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome >> and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can >> just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] >> >> The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware >> than the XO. >> >> --Sebastian >> >> [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree >> >>> Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB >>> sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that >>> and offer space for the user he can write to as well. >>> >>> Cheers, >>>Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro. Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too kind Regards, David Van Assche On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > Simon Schampijer schrieb: >> >> David Van Assche wrote: >>> >>> What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager >>> (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated >>> as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as >>> does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it >>> might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for >>> all educational groups... >>> >>> David >> >> If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. >> Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily >> customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. > > I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome > and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can > just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] > > The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware > than the XO. > > --Sebastian > > [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree > >> Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB >> sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that >> and offer space for the user he can write to as well. >> >> Cheers, >>Simon > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Sebastian Dziallas > wrote: >> Then I went on and removed stuff from the fedora-live-base.ks like dial-up-, >> font-, and printing-support (I'll need to check whether doing a -...@dial-up >> works with the most recent pykickstart build - see also here [1]). >> >> To sum it up, this reduced the size again and it should be now somewhere >> around 350 MB. Cleaning up /usr/share with regard to the locales would give >> us another 100 MB free, though. > > Awesome stuff. What kind of cleanup can we do for locales? > > Marco Well, I was using '--excludedocs' and '--instLangs en_US' here. At least the latter one drops stuff from other locales in /usr/share if I recall correctly. From my experience, it can empty up to 120 MB of space, depending on the package selection. 290 MB was my most recent build, by the way. I added the kickstart I was using to the GIT repo. And there're more things to be kicked out ;) - as you mentioned, the backgrounds, some more printing stuff (even though I agree that if Sugar should get printing support, we'd need to add it again),... I'm right now doing another build, hoping to get a smaller image. --Sebastian ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > Then I went on and removed stuff from the fedora-live-base.ks like dial-up-, > font-, and printing-support (I'll need to check whether doing a -...@dial-up > works with the most recent pykickstart build - see also here [1]). > > To sum it up, this reduced the size again and it should be now somewhere > around 350 MB. Cleaning up /usr/share with regard to the locales would give > us another 100 MB free, though. Awesome stuff. What kind of cleanup can we do for locales? Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: > Removing printing support doesn't sound like a good idea for something that > is going to be used in US schools and homes. Agreed in general, but until Sugar supports printing... Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Removing printing support doesn't sound like a good idea for something that is going to be used in US schools and homes. 2009/1/31 Sebastian Dziallas > Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > > Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Caroline Meeks < > solutiongr...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> Yes yum install would work > >> So Simon, if you want to get rid of GNOME and add the yum bits to the > >> instructions about switching to GNOME on the Soas page, please go > >> ahead :) > >> > >> Marco > > > > Well, how does working on reducing the size of the Fedora Sugar Spin > > sound to you? It has currently something a size of around 450 MB, but > > I'm pretty sure that we can get towards 300 MB. Picking the low hanging > > fruits there might be an idea... > > > > I'll see what I can do with some tweaks. > > > > --Sebastian > > Replying to myself here ;) > > I just checked it out and figured that the size of 450 MB just occurred > because of the use of Rawhide. When switching to F10, it's 40 MB smaller. > > Then I went on and removed stuff from the fedora-live-base.ks like > dial-up-, font-, and printing-support (I'll need to check whether doing > a -...@dial-up works with the most recent pykickstart build - see also here > [1]). > > To sum it up, this reduced the size again and it should be now somewhere > around 350 MB. Cleaning up /usr/share with regard to the locales would > give us another 100 MB free, though. > > --Sebastian > > [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428835 > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- "Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it." -- Barack Obama ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Caroline Meeks >> wrote: >>> Yes yum install would work >> So Simon, if you want to get rid of GNOME and add the yum bits to the >> instructions about switching to GNOME on the Soas page, please go >> ahead :) >> >> Marco > > Well, how does working on reducing the size of the Fedora Sugar Spin > sound to you? It has currently something a size of around 450 MB, but > I'm pretty sure that we can get towards 300 MB. Picking the low hanging > fruits there might be an idea... > > I'll see what I can do with some tweaks. > > --Sebastian Replying to myself here ;) I just checked it out and figured that the size of 450 MB just occurred because of the use of Rawhide. When switching to F10, it's 40 MB smaller. Then I went on and removed stuff from the fedora-live-base.ks like dial-up-, font-, and printing-support (I'll need to check whether doing a -...@dial-up works with the most recent pykickstart build - see also here [1]). To sum it up, this reduced the size again and it should be now somewhere around 350 MB. Cleaning up /usr/share with regard to the locales would give us another 100 MB free, though. --Sebastian [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428835 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Caroline Meeks > wrote: >> Yes yum install would work > > So Simon, if you want to get rid of GNOME and add the yum bits to the > instructions about switching to GNOME on the Soas page, please go > ahead :) > > Marco Well, how does working on reducing the size of the Fedora Sugar Spin sound to you? It has currently something a size of around 450 MB, but I'm pretty sure that we can get towards 300 MB. Picking the low hanging fruits there might be an idea... I'll see what I can do with some tweaks. --Sebastian ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Simon Schampijer schrieb: > David Van Assche wrote: >> What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager >> (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated >> as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as >> does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it >> might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for >> all educational groups... >> >> David > > If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. > Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily > customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware than the XO. --Sebastian [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree > Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB > sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on > that and offer space for the user he can write to as well. > > Cheers, > Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
David Van Assche wrote: > What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager > (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated > as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as > does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it > might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for > all educational groups... > > David This sounds pretty much like an education spin, doesn't it? If you're interested, some folks (including me) have been working within the EDU SIG at Fedora on such a thing: [1] It's based on XFCE, but includes nevertheless the (imo very amazing set of) KDE education apps and also some other related software. There's still Sugar missing - for now. I'm wondering, how a collaboration would be useful and whether this couldn't be profitable for both projects... ;) --Sebastian [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Education_Spin > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> David Van Assche wrote: >>> You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar >>> or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever >>> other apps... >> Sure - I understnad the technical part. I wondered more about what people >> expect when thy download the Sugar Fedora Spin. I mean when you get the KDE >> spin you don't expect to get GNOME and KDE in that spin, right? ;p >> >> Apart from that - not a big deal for me. >> >> Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote: > Yes yum install would work So Simon, if you want to get rid of GNOME and add the yum bits to the instructions about switching to GNOME on the Soas page, please go ahead :) Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
David Van Assche wrote: > What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager > (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated > as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as > does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it > might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for > all educational groups... > > David If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that and offer space for the user he can write to as well. Cheers, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for all educational groups... David On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > David Van Assche wrote: >> >> You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar >> or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever >> other apps... > > Sure - I understnad the technical part. I wondered more about what people > expect when thy download the Sugar Fedora Spin. I mean when you get the KDE > spin you don't expect to get GNOME and KDE in that spin, right? ;p > > Apart from that - not a big deal for me. > > Simon > > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:53 PM, David Van Assche wrote: > You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar > or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever > other apps... gdm was eating quite a bit of memory last time I tried. Also Caroline didn't want to have a choice visible in the UI, she wants Soas to look very clean and straightforward, advanced users can go to the shell if they want to use GNOME. (Again reporting her rationale, and hoping to do it correctly, but I tend to agree). Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
David Van Assche wrote: > You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar > or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever > other apps... Sure - I understnad the technical part. I wondered more about what people expect when thy download the Sugar Fedora Spin. I mean when you get the KDE spin you don't expect to get GNOME and KDE in that spin, right? ;p Apart from that - not a big deal for me. Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever other apps... On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer >> wrote: >>> Ok, did not think about yum update. >>> >>> Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have >>> though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac >>> users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. >> >> Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can >> play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they >> would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. >> That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can >> explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have >> them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). >> >> Marco >> > > As I said - might be a good way to get them try out other apps besides > Sugar - see that as a benefit. We could build customized images as well > - that is true. > > Thanks, >Simon > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Ok, did not think about yum update. >> >> Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have >> though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac >> users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. > > Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can > play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they > would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. > That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can > explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have > them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). > > Marco > As I said - might be a good way to get them try out other apps besides Sugar - see that as a benefit. We could build customized images as well - that is true. Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Ok, did not think about yum update. > > Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have > though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac > users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? >> If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, >> many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. > > But you don't actually need to download images each time. yum update > works fine... > > Marco Ok, did not think about yum update. Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. Cheers, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
David Van Assche wrote: > Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits > (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in > and does the sugar stuff Then people could use their distro to > create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for > sugar and its activities... > > I'd also suggest putting wubi on it so it can be run on windows... (cringe) It might also be worth considering Luke Macken's liveusb-creator for Fedora: https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ The thing about it is that it runs under Windows, as well as under Linux and already supports downloading iso images. I added support for the Fedora Sugar Spin (you just need to plug in an USB key and it downloads the stuff for you and puts it on the key) but probably we could work something out or even replace it with another image... Just some thoughts, though. --Sebastian > Anyweay, so this would become the sugar addon image/cd/drive > > David Van Assche > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti >> wrote: >>> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer >>> wrote: Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to infos on how to best trim down are welcome. >>> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? >> If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, >> many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. >> >> But setting up a rsync server may help with that. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> >>> Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can >>> switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to >>> reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just >>> leverage his work... >>> >>> Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > Even if Marco wouldn't like this, it was on my list of things we should > do for the XO Fedora build, so please do! ;-) Just to make it completely clear... I was trying to figure out Soas high priority requirements. I totally want a small-as-possible image for other scenarios (the main one being olpc images). Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > Well, it's mainly as small as it is due to removals regarding locals and > drivers, but if you don't mind, I could also quickly draft up a kickstart > file including GNOME and Sugar, wihch is not limited to the XO. I'd love that! Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? > > If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, > many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. But you don't actually need to download images each time. yum update works fine... Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Hi, > Well, it's mainly as small as it is due to removals regarding > locals and drivers, but if you don't mind, I could also quickly > draft up a kickstart file including GNOME and Sugar, wihch is not > limited to the XO. Even if Marco wouldn't like this, it was on my list of things we should do for the XO Fedora build, so please do! ;-) Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer > wrote: >> Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this >> post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 >> >> It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as >> possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps >> of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking >> @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to >> infos on how to best trim down are welcome. > > Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? > > Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can > switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to > reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just > leverage his work... > > Marco Well, it's mainly as small as it is due to removals regarding locals and drivers, but if you don't mind, I could also quickly draft up a kickstart file including GNOME and Sugar, wihch is not limited to the XO. --Sebastian ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in and does the sugar stuff Then people could use their distro to create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for sugar and its activities... I'd also suggest putting wubi on it so it can be run on windows... (cringe) Anyweay, so this would become the sugar addon image/cd/drive David Van Assche On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti > wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer >> wrote: >>> Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this >>> post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 >>> >>> It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as >>> possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps >>> of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking >>> @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to >>> infos on how to best trim down are welcome. >> >> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? > > If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, > many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. > > But setting up a rsync server may help with that. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > >> Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can >> switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to >> reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just >> leverage his work... >> >> Marco >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer > wrote: >> Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this >> post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 >> >> It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as >> possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps >> of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking >> @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to >> infos on how to best trim down are welcome. > > Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. But setting up a rsync server may help with that. Regards, Tomeu > Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can > switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to > reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just > leverage his work... > > Marco > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this > post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 > > It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as > possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps > of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking > @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to > infos on how to best trim down are welcome. Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just leverage his work... Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: >> So. If someone can point me to the *authoritative iso image* that we want >> to use for SoaS, I will make sure that we have install stations at the >> Fedora booth at FOSDEM. > > The latest known to work is: > > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso > > Simon did another image today, but I don't know what improvements it > contains and if it's tested. > > Marco > Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to infos on how to best trim down are welcome. Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: >> >> So. If someone can point me to the *authoritative iso image* that we want >> to use for SoaS, I will make sure that we have install stations at the >> Fedora booth at FOSDEM. > > The latest known to work is: > > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso > > Simon did another image today, but I don't know what improvements it > contains and if it's tested. Oh! http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: > > So. If someone can point me to the *authoritative iso image* that we want > to use for SoaS, I will make sure that we have install stations at the > Fedora booth at FOSDEM. The latest known to work is: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso Simon did another image today, but I don't know what improvements it contains and if it's tested. Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
So. If someone can point me to the *authoritative iso image* that we want to use for SoaS, I will make sure that we have install stations at the Fedora booth at FOSDEM. --g -- Got an XO that you're not using? Loan it to a needy developer! [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
