RE: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design
I think it may be difficult to get a good visible shadow on glass viewed from outside. Stained glass dials work nicely from a darkened room inside. There is also the question of finding an appropriate type of paint that will stand up to the UV light. It may be more difficult to handle the mechanical aspects of this project than the actual design of the dial. Has John Carmichael been able to comment? He is the stained glass expert. Jack Aubert From: sundial On Behalf Of Michael Ossipoff Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:19 PM To: Steve Lelievre Cc: Alon Gan ; sundial list Subject: Re: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design Steve-- Yes, undeniably the co-Italian hours have more practical use than Babylonian hours, as do the Temporary Hours that used to be standard before clocks came into use. For outdoor work like agriculture, or anything for which candle-light wasn't sufficient, of course it mattered very much how many hours were left before sunset(co-Italian), or what percentage of the day remained (Temporary-Hours). If you've plowed 1/3 of the field that needs plowing today, then it's desirable that not more than 1/3 of the day has elapsed. But I wouldn't choose Temporary Hours, because now the matter of how much of the day is gone seems like a negative thing to remind oneself of, and not the right way to regard the day or the time. Maybe that's why you don't like Babylonian Hours. What I like about Babylonian Hours is that it tells how young the day is, early in the morning. That's why I'd include it. Of course, with both Babylonian and co-Italian Hours, one could determine Temporary hours by: T = B/(B+CI) ...where T = Temporary B = Babylonian CI = co-Italian Michael Ossipoff Aprilis 23rd, 2020 Taurus 5th 18 Th On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 3:00 PM Steve Lelievre mailto:steve.lelievre.can...@gmail.com> > wrote: Michael, For sure. I simply ignored the possibility of Babylonian Hours because I personally don't think they have much practical use (to the extent that any sundial has practical use these days). For a dial showing hours to sunset, on the other hand, I do see some hint of practical use. It will tell me if I have time to mow the lawn or finish painting the fence before it gets dark, and so on. As well, for observers of some religions, a sunset dial could be used to know approximately how much time is left until, for example, the Sabbath starts or until a daytime fast can be broken. Steve On 2020-04-22 5:52 a.m., Michael Ossipoff wrote: > Because the dial is a translucent-double one, with gnomons on both > sides of the dial-plate, it would tell time all day, and so it could > give Babylonian-hours in addition to co-Italian hours. > > On a single dial, with everything on the same dial-face, it would > avoid clutter to show Babylonian hours only in the morning, and > co-Italian hours only in the evening. But, with the very wide hole in > the wall, there's easily room for 3 dials, with one exclusively for > Babylonian and co-Italian, and so it wouldn't be cluttered to show > both for all day. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design
Steve-- Yes, undeniably the co-Italian hours have more practical use than Babylonian hours, as do the Temporary Hours that used to be standard before clocks came into use. For outdoor work like agriculture, or anything for which candle-light wasn't sufficient, of course it mattered very much how many hours were left before sunset(co-Italian), or what *percentage* of the day remained (Temporary-Hours). If you've plowed 1/3 of the field that needs plowing today, then it's desirable that not more than 1/3 of the day has elapsed. But I wouldn't choose Temporary Hours, because now the matter of how much of the day is gone seems like a negative thing to remind oneself of, and not the right way to regard the day or the time. Maybe that's why you don't like Babylonian Hours. What I like about Babylonian Hours is that it tells how young the day is, early in the morning. That's why I'd include it. Of course, with both Babylonian and co-Italian Hours, one could determine Temporary hours by: T = B/(B+CI) ...where T = Temporary B = Babylonian CI = co-Italian Michael Ossipoff Aprilis 23rd, 2020 Taurus 5th 18 Th On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 3:00 PM Steve Lelievre < steve.lelievre.can...@gmail.com> wrote: > Michael, > > For sure. > > I simply ignored the possibility of Babylonian Hours because I > personally don't think they have much practical use (to the extent that > any sundial has practical use these days). For a dial showing hours to > sunset, on the other hand, I do see some hint of practical use. It will > tell me if I have time to mow the lawn or finish painting the fence > before it gets dark, and so on. As well, for observers of some > religions, a sunset dial could be used to know approximately how much > time is left until, for example, the Sabbath starts or until a daytime > fast can be broken. > > Steve > > > > > > On 2020-04-22 5:52 a.m., Michael Ossipoff wrote: > > Because the dial is a translucent-double one, with gnomons on both > > sides of the dial-plate, it would tell time all day, and so it could > > give Babylonian-hours in addition to co-Italian hours. > > > > On a single dial, with everything on the same dial-face, it would > > avoid clutter to show Babylonian hours only in the morning, and > > co-Italian hours only in the evening. But, with the very wide hole in > > the wall, there's easily room for 3 dials, with one exclusively for > > Babylonian and co-Italian, and so it wouldn't be cluttered to show > > both for all day. > > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Advice sought re:transparent sundial design
Michael, For sure. I simply ignored the possibility of Babylonian Hours because I personally don't think they have much practical use (to the extent that any sundial has practical use these days). For a dial showing hours to sunset, on the other hand, I do see some hint of practical use. It will tell me if I have time to mow the lawn or finish painting the fence before it gets dark, and so on. As well, for observers of some religions, a sunset dial could be used to know approximately how much time is left until, for example, the Sabbath starts or until a daytime fast can be broken. Steve On 2020-04-22 5:52 a.m., Michael Ossipoff wrote: Because the dial is a translucent-double one, with gnomons on both sides of the dial-plate, it would tell time all day, and so it could give Babylonian-hours in addition to co-Italian hours. On a single dial, with everything on the same dial-face, it would avoid clutter to show Babylonian hours only in the morning, and co-Italian hours only in the evening. But, with the very wide hole in the wall, there's easily room for 3 dials, with one exclusively for Babylonian and co-Italian, and so it wouldn't be cluttered to show both for all day. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
