Re: An old globe sundial found in a garden in France !
You can see a globe sundial in my region, Limburg in Flandren (Belgium), restored in 2003. Look at my website: http://www.wijzerweb.be/maaseik002A.html Willy LEENDERS Hasselt, Flanders (Belgium). www.wijzerweb.be Op 6-jan-08, om 18:39 heeft robic.joel het volgende geschreven: Dear Mike and all, Just imagine ... you dig in your garden and you find an old globe sundial ! See here what someone found in France: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/cadrans.solaires/cadrans/cadran-boule.html I don't know other dials of this kind in France, only globe dials with meridian mobile style. In Mike's book, I frequently see spheres on some multiple dials tops, for example Aberdour, Great Staughton, New Houghton, Bourton, Coughton, Colne, Whalley, Gillamoor, York, Hartburn. But on the photos of the book, it's not possible to see if there are hours inscriptions. Maybe someone knows other globe dials of this kind or has more detailled photos of the above spheres ? Joël from France 48°01'25'' N, 1°45'40" O ---> http://www.cadrans-solaires.fr/ <_thb_boule-enfouie.jpg><_thb_boule- enfouie.jpg>--- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: New York Times
Frank, Following your suggestion I was searching in a very big dictionary to find out more and I found in the Oxford Americans Dictionaries: quaint |kwānt| adjective attractively unusual or old-fashioned : quaint country cottages | a quaint old custom. DERIVATIVES quaintly adverb quaintness noun ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French cointe, from Latin cognitus ‘ascertained,’ past participle of cognoscere. The original sense was [wise, clever,] also [ingenious, cunningly devised,] hence [out of the ordinary] and the current sense (late 18th cent.). Thesaurus quaint adjective 1 a quaint town picturesque, charming, sweet, attractive, old- fashioned, old-world, cunning; pseudoarchaic olde, olde worlde. antonym ugly, modern. 2 quaint customs unusual, different, out of the ordinary, curious, eccentric, quirky, bizarre, whimsical, unconventional; informal offbeat. antonym normal, ordinary. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt, Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 15-jan-08, om 10:18 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven: James E. Morrison writes... ... in the New York Times Sunday Crossword of January 6, (published in our local paper on Jan. 13), the clue for 88 down is: "Quaint garden fixtures". It was painful to fill in, "SUNDIALS". This shouldn't have been painful at all. The crossword setter obviously had Shakespeare in mind. Look up Henry VI Part III, Act 2, Scene 5... ... to carve out dials quaintly point by point... Those who study Shakespeare assure me that "quaintly" has an exceptionally rude meaning (which Shakespeare was well aware of) and, indeed, is still used with this meaning in certain parts of Scotland. You will need to search in a very big dictionary to find out more! Best wishes Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Analemmatic dials and the human gnomon
In the French bulletin "L'Astronomie" 1970 feb. p 83-86 L. Janin writes about the oldest known analemmatic sundial near the church of Brou (Bourg-en- Bresse) in France: "His origine is from the time of the building of the church (1506-1536). His function was to indicate the hour for the builders. He has the form of an ellipse of 11 m 50 by 8 m 30. On 24 stones the hour marks are engraved. On a stone of 3 m 85 by 90 cm in the middle of the ellipse a style is placed on the date." Willy LEENDERS Hasselt Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 15-feb-08, om 12:20 heeft Douglas Bateman het volgende geschreven: Any advice on the history of this type of dial will be appreciated. I have been contacted by a school project with the relatively simple question, when did we start using the human as the gnomon? Setting aside 'pre-history' is it the more recent past? Regards, Doug --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Dali sundial +
The Dali sundial in Paris is not a painting. A painting is the Salvador Dali "self portrait sundial". You find a picture at http://www.elainefineart.com/dali/self_portrait_sundial.htm Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 14-mrt-08, om 00:40 heeft Robert Terwilliger het volgende geschreven: Some time ago someone posted a link to a painting by Salvador Dali that included a sundial. Could someone point me to it again? == Try this: == Since it has none, I suppose a sundial could be considered the timepiece with the least moving parts. What timepiece has the most moving parts? Bob --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Dali sundial +
Maybe another link to a Dali sundial: http://www.pop.ac/ portlligat013.html Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 14-mrt-08, om 14:03 heeft Robert Terwilliger het volgende geschreven: Thanks to all who replied. Most replies came to my own mailbox and not to the list. Remember to "Reply to all". What I was looking for was a sort of misty painting of a building with a non-descript sundial on the wall. On other Dali sundials: Joël Robic (and others): For sundials in Paris you can see Andree Gotteland site (and book): http://www2.saf-lastronomie.com/csmp/arr5n/centrea51.html Willy LEENDERS: The Dali sundial in Paris is not a painting. A painting is the Salvador Dali "self portrait sundial". You find a picture at http://www.elainefineart.com/dali/self_portrait_sundial.htm As for the painting I was seeking, I believe Richard Langley might have found it and may be forwarding a link to the list. Dave bell sent this interesting link. http://peregrinations.kenyon.edu/vol1-3/gower.pdf And provided the answer: > What timepiece has the most moving parts? Why, an hour glass, of course! Bob From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] koeln.de] On Behalf Of Robert Terwilliger Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:40 PM To: 'Sundial Mailing List' Subject: Dali sundial + Some time ago someone posted a link to a painting by Salvador Dali that included a sundial. Could someone point me to it again? == Try this: == Since it has none, I suppose a sundial could be considered the timepiece with the least moving parts. What timepiece has the most moving parts? Bob --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: In the Bible, what time is "the 6th hour" in GMT?
I think Fer is right, Antique hours are periods not moments. Nevertheless in Mat 20 1-16 I read "AT the eleventh hour", not "IN the eleventh hour". The (shortened) text: The master of a household went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. . About the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle. He said to them ‘You also go into the vineyard, and you will receive whatever is right.' . When the laborers who were hired at about the eleventh hour came to receive their wages, they each received a denarius. When the first came, they likewise each received a denarius. When they received it, they murmured saying, ‘These last have spent one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat!’ Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 21-mrt-08, om 13:28 heeft fer de vries het volgende geschreven: Roger, Wee-meng, I think the timesystem in the Bible are antique hours, 12 hours from sunrise to sunset. With the latest Dutch translation of the Bible a few years ago it was discussed to use "our" timesystem but I am glad they didn't. The antique hours are still in use. Many times is said that noon is 6 but it is the end of the sixth hour and the seventh hour start. With sunrise the first hour start. Halfway afternoon 9 hours has past and the tenth hpour start. Antique hours are not moments as we are used to but an hour is a period of time. It is in the nineth hour and so on. Best wishes, Fer. Fer J. de Vries De Zonnewijzerkring http://www.de-zonnewijzerkring.nl Molens http://www.collsemolen.dse.nl Eindhoven, Netherlands lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E - Original Message - From: "Roger Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "wee-meng lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Sundial List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:30 AM Subject: Re: In the Bible, what time is "the 6th hour" in GMT? >I would say noon for the 6th hour. An interesting point on Biblical time. I > am reminded of the workers in the vineyard Mat 20 1-16. Those that started > at the 11th hour were paid the same as those that bore the heat of the day. > They needed a better union for fair wages. > > Day started at sunrise. Was it unequal hours, 12 hours per day of daylight, > every day of the year? Or was it Babylonian hours, equal hours starting at > sunrise. I suspect the former but the day starts at sunset for Jews. Friday > night is part of the Sabbath Day. Does this time refer to equal hours > starting at sunset, Italian hours. What are the Biblical hours? I don't > know. Today at the equinox, it does not matter. Biblical hours, Babylonian > hours or Italian hours using 12 hour cycles are all the same today. > > I do know that many religious ceremonies start at at 3:00 pm , Good Friday, > the ninth hour in Biblical and many other times. > > Regards, > Roger Bailey > www.walkingshadow.info > > - Original Message - > From: "wee-meng lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Sundial List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:33 PM > Subject: In the Bible, what time is "the 6th hour" in GMT? > > >> Hi, >> >> Today as everyone knows is Good Friday. I was reading my bible and in the >> following verse it mentions about the "sixth hour" and the "ninth hour". >> >> Luke 23:44-45 It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the >> whole land until the ninth hour, [45] for the sun stopped shining. And >> curtain of the temple was torn in two. >> >> I'm trying to figure out what time that is in GMT and the Israel local >> time. >> Is it 6pm Israel local time? If so, does the Sun shine there from 6pm to >> 9pm normally? >> >> I'm staying near the equator and the Sun rises and sets about 7am, 7pm >> (our >> local time is moved forward 1 hr so in solar time, it's 6am/6pm) >> respectively all year round. >> >> thx! >> weemeng >> >> --- >> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> >> > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
astronomical clock
The astronomical clock in Prague is not a sundial but a nice didactic model showing several kinds of hours that appears on sundials too. - the local solar time in Prague; - the time, measured in a division of twelve 'hours', between sunrise and sunset, the unequal or temporal hours. - the time, measured in a division of 24 hours indicating the time to sunset (sunset = 24), the Bohemian or Italian hours; - the position of the sun in the zodiac; - the sidereal time. On my website I have introduced an explanation of the working of the clock, with exploded views. It's pity that the text is not (yet) translated in English. But one feature is in English language: an Excel spreadsheet that 'constructs' the clock for each hour, day and month at each place in the world (on behalve between the pole circles and the poles) You find it at http://www.wijzerweb.be/praag.html At the bottom of the page you read: De klok geprogrammeerd in een rekenblad. Klik hier Click at hier I am waiting for your comments. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
astronomical clock - English version
Thank you all who sent me their appreciation and comments concerning my web page with an explanation of the astronomical clock in Prague and the spreadsheet in the page that 'construct' the clock for each moment in the year and each place in the world. On general demand the web page is now translated in English. You find it at http://www.wijzerweb.be/prague.html I am waiting for your comments, even about my (Flemmish) English. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Japanese sundials
Yes, François, there is a sundial association in Japan. In the bulletin of the Sundial Society Flandern (Belgium) there was in winter 2005 an article on sundials in Japan. The president of this society writes about his vist to Japan and to proffessor Masato Oki ( Ashikaga Institute of Technology in Tokyo) of the Japanese sundial association. This article in not digital. Digital illustrated articles, but in French language, you find at http://cadrans_solaires.scg.ulaval.ca/v08-08-04/mediatheque/table- matieres.html Volume XI numero 2 juin 2004 pages 2-5-13-14 Willy LEENDERS Hasselt Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 30-mrt-08, om 12:00 heeft François BLATEYRON (CS) het volgende geschreven: Dear all Do you know any sundial in Japan, especially in Tokyo area and Kyoto? And is there a sundial association there? Thank you Francois Blateyron www.shadowspro.com --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Japanese sundials
Clicking on the url in my precedent mail gives a bad result. You have to copy and paste the adress as a whole. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 30-mrt-08, om 12:31 heeft Willy Leenders het volgende geschreven: Yes, François, there is a sundial association in Japan. In the bulletin of the Sundial Society Flanders (Belgium) there was in winter 2005 an article on sundials in Japan. The president of this society writes about his vist to Japan and to proffessor Masato Oki ( Ashikaga Institute of Technology in Tokyo) of the Japanese sundial association. This article in not digital. Digital illustrated articles, but in French language, you find at http://cadrans_solaires.scg.ulaval.ca/v08-08-04/mediatheque/table- matieres.html Volume XI numero 2 juin 2004 pages 2-5-13-14 Willy LEENDERS Hasselt Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 30-mrt-08, om 12:00 heeft François BLATEYRON (CS) het volgende geschreven: Dear all Do you know any sundial in Japan, especially in Tokyo area and Kyoto? And is there a sundial association there? Thank you Francois Blateyron www.shadowspro.com --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Astronomical Clocks
In the English Wikipedia encyclopedy at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ St_Mark's_Clock I read concerning the St Mark's Clock, housed in the St Mark's Clocktower, on St Mark's Square in Venice: "The signs of the zodiac are in anticlockwise order around the inner zodiac dial: the zodiac wheel rotates clockwise with the hour hand but slips back slightly with each rotation, so that the hour hand slowly passes through each zodiac sign in the course of the year." I think it must be " . but slips forward slightly with each rotation ." i.e. the zodiac wheel rotates faster than de hour hand. Is the Wikipedia text wrong? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 9-apr-08, om 10:56 heeft [EMAIL PROTECTED] het volgende geschreven: Peter, if you are looking for a true watch with the EoT, there was one in the Villeret collection. The name was "Equation Marchante Pure", ref. code C6038-3442-55B, limited edition of 50 items. The price was really affordable : only 83,960 euro (eighty-three thousands !). I don't know if it is still available. Best wishes. Gian -- Initial Header --- From : [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : "James E. Morrison" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date : Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:01:06 +0930 Subject : Re: Astronomical Clocks Dear Jim, Thanks for the reference. I took a copy out of our library the other day. Amongst the many other things which were utterly unknown to me were 18th century clocks which incorporated Equation of Time 'kidneys' so that they could read sundial time! Is the Dialist's Companion the only contemporary equivalent? best wishes, Peter Quoting "James E. Morrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: The best reference on geared astronomical machines, including monumental clocks such the Prague clock is: King, Henry C., "Geared to the Stars", University of Toronto Press (1978). (The late professor King also wrote "The History of the Telescope".) This book has a fairly detailed description of the Prague gearing, and the trains for many other astronomical machines. Best regards, Jim James E. Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Astrolabe web site at astrolabes.org --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- Peter Mayer Politics Department The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph: +61 8 8303 5606 Fax : +61 8 8303 3443 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CRICOS Provider Number 00123M --- This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: A new mosaic Analemmatic, in Australia - plus a 'suggestion', for this List
Willy LEENDERSKloosterlaan 60B-3500 HasseltFlanders in BelgiumTel. 32 (0)11 72 04 4750° 53' 38'' N 5° 21' 00'' Ewww.wijzerweb.be Op 17-apr-08, om 11:41 heeft Linda Reid het volgende geschreven:As we do not see very many new sundials, from the Southern Hemisphere - here isa photograph which has been sent to me by "a-friend-of-a-friend", in Australia.It is a mosaic Analemmatic layout, constructed at Cecil Plains (in Queensland).Note how the hour-markers run in an 'anti-clockwise' sense - being the oppositeof any typical layouts, designed for a location within the Northern Hemisphere.The original picture was 2256 x 1496 pixels (about 1.6Mb) - so had to reduce itto make the file-size suitable for this Mailing List, but if anyone wants me toEmail them the 'actual-size' JPEG photograph, then please contact me privately.A suggestion - I have always thought it would be useful if I could see picturesof the members of our Mailing List, and so that I could "put a face to a name".I have included a small photograph of myself. If other members think that thiscould be a good idea, then I will look forward to seeing your images in future.Yours sincerely,Linda Reid.---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: A new mosaic Analemmatic, in Australia - plus a 'suggestion', for this List
What you think about SOLARTISTS Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 18-apr-08, om 02:50 heeft Carl & Barbara Sabanski het volgende geschreven: Sunny Day! It seems that a number of people are interested in seeing photos of their "Dialling Friends". We see the names of diallists and individuals interested in dialling on various web sites and on the SML but who are they. If you are willing to send me your photo, where you are located and a short description of your interest in dialling I would be very interested in starting a page on The Sundial Primer for this information. I do not wish to include links to web sites if that is okay with you. What will I call the page? What about "Dialling Friends"? If you are interested please send me your photo and information. If there is enough interest I will start the page. Please provide a 2008 photo and the file size can be larger than the SML takes but less than 100 kb if possible. Also, if you have one, please send me YOUR maker's mark and I can put that on a page I have already started. Happy Dialling! Carl Sabanski www.mysundial.ca Get "Hooked on Gnomonics"! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Linda Reid Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:41 AM To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: A new mosaic Analemmatic, in Australia - plus a 'suggestion',for this List As we do not see very many new sundials, from the Southern Hemisphere - here is a photograph which has been sent to me by "a-friend-of-a-friend", in Australia. It is a mosaic Analemmatic layout, constructed at Cecil Plains (in Queensland). Note how the hour-markers run in an 'anti-clockwise' sense - being the opposite of any typical layouts, designed for a location within the Northern Hemisphere. The original picture was 2256 x 1496 pixels (about 1.6Mb) - so had to reduce it to make the file-size suitable for this Mailing List, but if anyone wants me to Email them the 'actual-size' JPEG photograph, then please contact me privately. A suggestion - I have always thought it would be useful if I could see pictures of the members of our Mailing List, and so that I could "put a face to a name". I have included a small photograph of myself. If other members think that this could be a good idea, then I will look forward to seeing your images in future. Yours sincerely, Linda Reid. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Trip highlights
Hi John, You write: "I was surprised that we could not find more sundials in Zurich and Lucerne- especially painted wall sundials. There were very few painted wall sundials in Switzerland." The inventory of sundials in Germany and Switzerland gives the description and adress of about 1.100 sundials in Switserland. Many of them are painted wall sundials. In Zurich there are 25 sundials, 11 are wall sundials In Luzern there are 7 sundials, 6 are wall sundials. Source: Sonnenuhren Deutschland und Schweiz Hugo Philipp - Daniel Roth - Willy Bachmann Deutsche Geselschaft für Chronometrie 1994 Best regards. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 20-jul-08, om 18:10 heeft John Carmichael het volgende geschreven: Hi Frans (cc. Sundial List): I had a feeling that not many people had used your Amsterdam Sundial Trail, because we were told by the curator of the Van Loon Museum and the lady who let us into the Goethe Institut that we were the first persons who had asked to see their sundials. But I very much recommend it to anyone who visits Amsterdam. It's a great way to get some exercise, see the city, and of course, see some great sundials. (be forewarned that some of the older dials were made before Amsterdam adopted Greenwich as the prime meridian, so that at first glance, these dials seem to be wrong, but if you adjust for the difference, they are right). By the way, at the Museum Van Loon, they have removed the 1818 armillary sphere from its pedestal in the garden and have placed it in a storage room. They put a modern stone statue in its place (ugh!). They did show it to us in the storage room. The curator asked me for my copy of your booklet and I gave it to her. She also promised that she would rotate the old polyhedral dial 180 degrees and straighten its pedestal! Unfortunately, we did not see many sundials on our trip in the cities we visited, even though I was constantly looking for them. I was surprised that we could not find more sundials in Zurich and Lucerne- especially painted wall sundials. There were very few painted wall sundials in Switzerland. I have a theory: You only see painted wall sundials in those towns where sundial makers live or have lived. They become a fad in those towns. If one guy has a painted wall sundial on his house, then his neighbor wants one too. This is how they spread. You see this in Italy in the towns where Mario Arnaldi lives and Lucio Maria Morra Lives. So I don't think there are very many sundial makers in Switzerland. But there are a hellava lot of watches! But there were a few sundial highlights such as the wall dial at the castle in Heidelberg, and the five sundials on the cathedral in Strasburg. But most of all, I enjoyed meeting German dialists Peter Kunath in Cologne (he took us to a wild German pub), and the great dialist, Carlo Heller in Bigen Germany who showed us his wonderful steel sundials at his workshop near the US air Force Base and his new sundial tower on the river walk in Bigen. It is our dial of the month at: http://www.advanceassociates.com/Sundials/ Stained_Glass/CupolaSundial/index.html Thanks again for putting this trail booklet together for us. John p.s. you can download Frans' Sundial Trail of Amsterdam at; www.fransmaes.nl/sundials/amsterdam/ -Original Message- From: F.W.Maes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 3:06 AM To: John Carmichael Subject: Re: Sundial in Amsterdam- Thank you! Dear John, You are the first one who has followed the sundial trail, as far as I know. So I am really glad to hear that you enjoyed it, and even more so that you were able to find and see all dials! Please let me know if there were obscurities or glitches along the trail or in the booklet. And if you think it is worthwhile, you might consider posting your experiences to the Sundial List. I have mentioned the site twice, without much response. It would be nice if more colleagues would profit from my efforts. How was the rest of your trip? What city did you like most, from a sundialish point of view? Best regards, Frans On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:20:19 -0700 "John Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear Frans: Just a quick note to let you know how much we enjoyed using your pamphlet on the Sundials in Amsterdam. It made our day there most enjoyable! We saw all the dials you had listed! Thank you so much, John John L. Carmichael Sundial Sculptures 925 E. Foothills Dr. Tucson AZ 85718-4716 USA Tel: 520-6961709 Email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] My Websites: (business) Sundial Sculptures: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com/> http://www.sundialsculptures.com (educational) Chinook Trail Sundial: <http://advanceassociates.com/Sundials/COSprings/> http://advanceassociates.com/Sundials/COSp
Re: WG: Analemmatic- and gunsundial-films at YouTube
Most of the persons (in the film and on other analemmatic sundials too) stand in the 'calendar' on the mark of the date and not in the middle of the 'calendar' nearby the mark of the date. What is a good solution in the layout of the 'calendar' to become that persons stand on the right place? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 3-aug-08, om 23:08 heeft Reinhold Kriegler het volgende geschreven: Dear friends, may I introduce a nice YouTube-film about the recently unveiled analemmatic sundial of Aleksandr Boldyrev in Shelkovo near Moscow to you? Even the pigeons… http://ru.youtube.com/user/AleksandrBoldyrev And perhaps you also want to see (again) the powerful gunsundial of Antonio J. Cañones? http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwg3lpJ2j8E&feature=related Enjoy! Best regards! Reinhold Kriegler * ** *** * ** *** Reinhold R. Kriegler Lat. 53° 6' 52,6" Nord; Long. 8° 53' 52,3 Ost; 48 m ü. N.N. www.ta-dip.de http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=XyCoJHwzzjU --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Equazione del Tempo
What is the importance for an ordinary citizen to have an indication of EOT nearby a clock that indicates civil time? He does not know what this is and if he wants to know the time as a sundial indicates, he has to calculate and he should also bring in account the time difference by the difference in longitude and the summertime. Would it not be better to design a clock that indicates immediately the 'sundial time'? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 4-aug-08, om 11:06 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven: Dear All, Next to a sundial it is quite common to see a representation of the Equation of Time. One reason for this is so that people can note the time shown on the dial and then calculate the time that should be shown on a clock. There is an implicit assumption that clock time is what the user really wants to know and that sundial time is somehow inferior. In Italy they think the other way round... Take a look at: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/fhk1/EofT.jpg Here you will see an ordinary public clock showing 12:51 and immediately below the clock is a second clock with a single hand that indicates the EQUAZIONE DEL TEMPO. In the photograph it shows -6 minutes. Here people can note the time on the clock and calculate the time that should be shown on a sundial! The implicit assumption is that sundial time is what the user really wants to know and that clock time is somehow inferior. Bravo to the Italians! The photograph was taken on 1 August when the Equation of Time was indeed about -6 minutes. The main clock was showing Central European Summer Time. I do not know of a public (outdoor) clock in the U.K. that shows the Equation of Time and wonder how much demand there would be for such a facililty? For completeness: the photograph was taken in Piazza Dante in Naples. Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Equazione del Tempo
What is the importance for an ordinary citizen to have an indication of EOT nearby a clock that indicates civil time? He does not know what this is and if he wants to know the time as a sundial indicates, he has to calculate and he should also bring in account the time difference by the difference in longitude and the summertime. Would it not be better to design a clock that indicates immediately the 'sundial time'? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 4-aug-08, om 11:06 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven: Dear All, Next to a sundial it is quite common to see a representation of the Equation of Time. One reason for this is so that people can note the time shown on the dial and then calculate the time that should be shown on a clock. There is an implicit assumption that clock time is what the user really wants to know and that sundial time is somehow inferior. In Italy they think the other way round... Take a look at: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/fhk1/EofT.jpg Here you will see an ordinary public clock showing 12:51 and immediately below the clock is a second clock with a single hand that indicates the EQUAZIONE DEL TEMPO. In the photograph it shows -6 minutes. Here people can note the time on the clock and calculate the time that should be shown on a sundial! The implicit assumption is that sundial time is what the user really wants to know and that clock time is somehow inferior. Bravo to the Italians! The photograph was taken on 1 August when the Equation of Time was indeed about -6 minutes. The main clock was showing Central European Summer Time. I do not know of a public (outdoor) clock in the U.K. that shows the Equation of Time and wonder how much demand there would be for such a facililty? For completeness: the photograph was taken in Piazza Dante in Naples. Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Equazione del Tempo
It sounds reasonable, Fer. But your explanation belongs to the history of time keeping and is not common knowledge of an ordinary citizen walking in an Italian city. Therfore I aggree with your suggestion; "a build in correction would have been easier in use". And that has'nt to cost 275,000 dollar! To become a not accurate mechincal system! Let's do it with electronics (eventual in combination with GPS). It will be cheap and accurate. I did it in a simple Excel worksheet on my computer. One can see a picture at the website of Frans Maes http://www.fransmaes.nl/ zonnewijzers/welcome-e.htm in the category 'Miscellaneous types' - click on the picture above 'Virtual sundial Hasselt' Best regards. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium, for the time being) www.wijzerweb.be Op 5-aug-08, om 10:20 heeft fer de vries het volgende geschreven: Willy, In the past local suntime was used for civil time. A sundial was the leading instrument. When a clock was placed on the church the clock was regulated by the parish clerk to local suntime with the help of a sundial. This is why we often see a clock and a sundial on one building. As people got their clock at home a table for the EoT was delivered with it so they could regulate the clock at home for local suntime. Some clocks had the EoT correction build in to keep it running local suntime. If I follow this story it isn't strange to me to see the combination of a clock with a second mechanical dial for the EoT, however, a build in correction would have been easier in use. Sounds this reasonable? Best wishes, Fer. Fer J. de Vries De Zonnewijzerkring http://www.de-zonnewijzerkring.nl Molens http://www.collsemolen.dse.nl Eindhoven, Netherlands lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E - Original Message - From: Willy Leenders To: Frank King Cc: sundial Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Equazione del Tempo What is the importance for an ordinary citizen to have an indication of EOT nearby a clock that indicates civil time? He does not know what this is and if he wants to know the time as a sundial indicates, he has to calculate and he should also bring in account the time difference by the difference in longitude and the summertime. Would it not be better to design a clock that indicates immediately the 'sundial time'? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 4-aug-08, om 11:06 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven: Dear All, Next to a sundial it is quite common to see a representation of the Equation of Time. One reason for this is so that people can note the time shown on the dial and then calculate the time that should be shown on a clock. There is an implicit assumption that clock time is what the user really wants to know and that sundial time is somehow inferior. In Italy they think the other way round... Take a look at: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/fhk1/EofT.jpg Here you will see an ordinary public clock showing 12:51 and immediately below the clock is a second clock with a single hand that indicates the EQUAZIONE DEL TEMPO. In the photograph it shows -6 minutes. Here people can note the time on the clock and calculate the time that should be shown on a sundial! The implicit assumption is that sundial time is what the user really wants to know and that clock time is somehow inferior. Bravo to the Italians! The photograph was taken on 1 August when the Equation of Time was indeed about -6 minutes. The main clock was showing Central European Summer Time. I do not know of a public (outdoor) clock in the U.K. that shows the Equation of Time and wonder how much demand there would be for such a facililty? For completeness: the photograph was taken in Piazza Dante in Naples. Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: equal and unequal hours
Yuo can find a better picture on http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Bild:Braunschweiger_Dom_kleine_Sonnnenuhr.JPG Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 23-aug-08, om 19:35 heeft Roger Bailey het volgende geschreven: Google quickly finds pictures and information on the Braunschweig Cathedral sundial. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/ Image:Braunschweig,_Dom_St._Blasii_mit_Sonnenuhr.jpg The pictures show a dial with the words Anno 1716 across the top. A text reference identifies "Hans Geog Hartel" with the sundial is 1659. http://historydb.adlerplanetarium.org/signatures/edit.pl?edit_id=6954 Is there an earlier sundial dating back to 1346 with the same characteristics, polar gnomon and equal hours? Can any of you scan Carl Roslund's BSS article and email me a copy? Regards, Roger - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Frank.King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "sundial" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 8:54 AM Subject: Re: equal and unequal hours Dear Frank, Maes and other friends, The question about the introduction of use of the polar gnomon is old. Actually, are very few the informations about this. Rohr wrote in his book that the polar gnomon was introduced in Europe with the Crusaders returning from the arabian country. I also think that the polar gnomon was re-invented in Europe from the Arabian astronomical science. Sure the mechanical tower clock with the equal hours was a good reason for the use of polar gnomon in the equal hours sundials, but I have some dubt about the importance of this "only one" reason. It is true that the first mechanical clocks was on the towers around the begin of the 1300. And the first vertical sundials with the polar gnomon was done arond the first half of 1300. The interesting articles of Curt Roslund in the BSS Bulletin, september 2005, pag. 116-119, show the vertical sundial of Braunschweig Cathedral of 1346 with the equal hour lines and a polar gnomon. A have find recently a important gnomonical manuscript attribuited to the end of 1300 with drawings of horizontal and vertical (also east and west plane) sundials with the equal hours line. But this is a new topic for a my next articles. Hence, we have the sources that the equal hours line on the horizontal and vertical sundials with an probable polar gnomon was used in the Europe at the end of 1300. Thanks for attention and the best wishes to all Nicola Severino --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1629 - Release Date: 23/08/2008 1:16 PM --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Greetings
Leandro, A three meters diameter equatorial sundial is a big size for a sundial! I placed a one meter diameter equatorial sundial on a square in the town where I am living, Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium). The pole-style, usually a rod, has been replaced by a slit in a wide strip of metal. The slit has been beveled inward, so that it allows the sun through until well after 5 pm. And after that the shadow of the strip itself is getting narrow enough for an accurate reading. The time ring consists of a T-beam, bent to 1 meter (3' 3") diameter. Being open, the ring can be broad and sturdy without blocking the sun around the equinoxes. The pole-style has a little ball as an index, welded into the slit. It marks one particular date, when its shadow is exactly bisected by the horizontal line. Here, that date is September 10, which in 2000 was National Heritage Day. An identical armillary sphere but adjusted to another anniversary, the National Holiday of Flanders, can be found in Sint-Martens-Voeren in Flanders (Belgium). See: http://www.wijzerweb.be/hasselt001A.html and http://www.wijzerweb.be/voeren001A.html Best regards. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 7-okt-08, om 07:05 heeft Leandro V. Rabelo het volgende geschreven: Hello people, I read your comments here every day and this is my first time I’m writing to you. Almost one year ago I saw in the internet a monument at Adler planetarium in Chicago, when I discovered that the monument was a sundial, and then, what a sundial was, I started studying about it to try to do one here in my city, I know that this is an ambitious project but I’m studying for that and I hope this can become a reality. I’m planning to make a three meters diameter equatorial sundial to put in an important place here, I know that I have many things to learn to make an accurate sundial, but I just want to say that I learned many things here reading your e-mails and now I’ll study more and more to make my own sundial, please don’t hesitate if you have any suggestions and when I have news about my sundial I’ll post here. Best regards, Leandro Rabelo Maceió, Brazil. (9°39'53.64"S - 35°41'47.56"W) Veja mapas e encontre as melhores rotas para fugir do trânsito com o Live Search Maps! Experimente já! --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Need Help
The arguments for sundials in gardens given by the members of the sundial list are in vain. Similar arguments can also be formulated for works of art, ornaments, sculptures, fountains, basins, benches, summer houses, flower boxes, ... Why would the association prohibit all these non vegetable attributes and make an exception for sundials? Best regards. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 18-okt-08, om 16:17 heeft Fred Sawyer het volgende geschreven: From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 10:03 AM Subject: Need Help Good Morning Sir: I need your help and advice. I live in an upscale townhouse condo development. I have a 2 foot tall pedestal which holds a large beautiful sundial. The association claims that only plants can be added to any home. I plan to appeal this decision with the argument that sundials are classic garden ornaments that can be found in the most prestigious gardens around the world. What I am asking from you is some text that supports my argument here. I am sure that there is something out there but I need your help. Thank you. Dr. George A. Articolo New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: SGS or PWS in Belgium?
John, You can see this sundial in the center of Brussels (Belgium) naer the royal palace. This sundial is not a 'sundial stain glass window'. It is a mosaic of Venetian glass. A bad restoration of a beautifull sundial, again in a bad state. On the websiet http://www.gnomonica.be you can read: City : Brussels Postal code : 1000 Address : Coudenberg 66 Year of the sundial : ± 1895 Project leader : Paul Saintenoy ? Author of the sundial : Silvio Tolomei Material : Mosaic of Venitian glas Photo : 2004 Type : Vertical, strongly West declining Remark : This nice sundial lies pitty in a very bad state. Although lots of contacts with the responsibles there is still no plan for a very needed restore. Best regards Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 29-okt-08, om 23:05 heeft John Carmichael het volgende geschreven: Hi all: I was researching stained glass sundials and I found this photo on flickr.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluebird/407643625/in/ set-72157594565203208/ First of all, I’m not sure what country it’s in, but the info on the flickr site implies it’s in Belgium. There apparently is no email address of the photographer, Sally Penny Henny, so I can’t write her to ask about it. Secondly, there are clues in the photo that tell me that it is not a stained glass sundial at all, but rather a painted wall sundial. If you look closely at the photo, the hour numerals are not reversed on the outside of the building photo as is customary with stained glass dials. Also, it looks like the paint has peeled back and fallen off in the lower right side of the dial revealing white plaster underneath. And I do see any lead came. It’s a nice dial nevertheless. Have any of you ever seen it and know where it is located? Do you have any better photos of it? Thanks John --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: sundial Digest, Vol 34, Issue 37
John, As I already reported yesterday the sundial at the Coudenberg in Brussels you found at Flikr is not a SGS but a sundial in a mosaic of Venetian glass. The sundials in Antwerp and Brussels mentioned by Jos Kint are no SGS too. They consist of a small hole in a stained-glass window. At noon the sun shines through the hole and forms a light spot on a meridian line. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 30-okt-08, om 16:06 heeft John Carmichael het volgende geschreven: Hello Jos (cc Eric Daled): I love a mistery, especially when it involves sundials. So thank you for those leads on two possible SGS in Brussels and Antwerp. Does anybody out there know about these dials that Jos mentions? Are they really SGS? I have no records of them or any SGS in Belgium for that matter. By the way Jos, I was at first surprised that you do not know about stained glass sundials. But that's because I forget that they are still unknown to many people. They are some of the most beautiful and unique sundial types. You can see them at: www.stainedglasssundials.com Thanks for writing! I will try to find out more about those Belgium dials you mentioned. Thanks John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] koeln.de] On Behalf Of Jos Kint Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:50 AM To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: sundial Digest, Vol 34, Issue 37 Hi John, I do not know what you mean by a "stained glass sundial", but I know that in Belgium at least two ancient stained glasses (one in the Brussels Saint Gudule cathedral and one in the Antwerp Our Lady Cathedral) are transformed in a sun dial in 1837 by Adolphe Quetelet , the famous statistician and astronomer. He did so in order to synchronise the time in Antwerp and Brussels for the recent railway connection between both cities. By the discovery of the telegraph in 1839 they became obsolete. But you can still admire these sundials with the meridian lines in both cathedrals. Jos Kint, Gent, Belgium - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:00 PM Subject: sundial Digest, Vol 34, Issue 37 Send sundial mailing list submissions to sundial@uni-koeln.de To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of sundial digest..." Today's Topics: 1. SGS or PWS in Belgium? (John Carmichael) 2. Re: SGS or PWS in Belgium? (Willy Leenders) - - Message: 1 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:05:16 -0700 From: "John Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: SGS or PWS in Belgium? To: "'Sundial List'" Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all: I was researching stained glass sundials and I found this photo on flickr.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluebird/407643625/in/ set-72157594565203208/ First of all, I'm not sure what country it's in, but the info on the flickr site implies it's in Belgium. There apparently is no email address of the photographer, Sally Penny Henny, so I can't write her to ask about it. Secondly, there are clues in the photo that tell me that it is not a stained glass sundial at all, but rather a painted wall sundial. If you look closely at the photo, the hour numerals are not reversed on the outside of the building photo as is customary with stained glass dials. Also, it looks like the paint has peeled back and fallen off in the lower right side of the dial revealing white plaster underneath. And I do see any lead came. It's a nice dial nevertheless. Have any of you ever seen it and know where it is located? Do you have any better photos of it? Thanks John -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/private/sundial/attachments/ 20081029/1247 413d/attachment-0001.htm -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:24:11 +0100 From: Willy Leenders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: SGS or PWS in Belgium? To: "John Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: 'Sundial List' Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" John, You can see this sundial in the center of Brussels (Belgium) naer the royal palace. This sundial is not a 'sundial stain glass window'. It is a mosaic of Venetian glass. A bad restoration of a beautifull sundial, again in a bad
Re: SGS or PWS in Belgium?
JOHN, I REPEAT MY MAIL THAT I SENT YOU ON OCTOBER 29 AND AGAIN ON OCTOBER 30: You can see this sundial in the center of Brussels (Belgium) near the royal palace. (and indeed nearby the Museum of Musical Instruments) This sundial is not a 'sundial stain glass window'. It is a mosaic of Venetian glass. A bad restoration of a beautifull sundial, again in a bad state. On the websiet http://www.gnomonica.be you can read: City : Brussels Postal code : 1000 Address : Coudenberg 66 Year of the sundial : ± 1895 Project leader : Paul Saintenoy ? Author of the sundial : Silvio Tolomei Material : Mosaic of Venitian glas Photo : 2004 Type : Vertical, strongly West declining Remark : This nice sundial lies pitty in a very bad state. Although lots of contacts with the responsibles there is still no plan for a very needed restore. Best regards Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 31-okt-08, om 16:29 heeft John Carmichael het volgende geschreven: I wrote the photographer of the mystery dial on flickr.com and she wrote back: >Thank you for looking at my photo and taking the time to write. I looked at the photo of the sundial and it actually looks to be a mosaic, not painted or stained glass. I don't know if you'd still be interested in using the photo but you are welcome to. It was taken in Brussels, Belgium but I honestly cannot remember what building it's on. It's either a part of the Museum of Musical Instruments or a building nearby. Sorry I know that doesn't help much. I asked her to send me a higher resolution photo so that I can confirm if it’s painted or mosaic. It’s hard to tell in the photo she posted. I’ll let you know if I find out anything… From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] koeln.de] On Behalf Of John Carmichael Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:05 PM To: 'Sundial List' Subject: SGS or PWS in Belgium? Hi all: I was researching stained glass sundials and I found this photo on flickr.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluebird/407643625/in/ set-72157594565203208/ First of all, I’m not sure what country it’s in, but the info on the flickr site implies it’s in Belgium. There apparently is no email address of the photographer, Sally Penny Henny, so I can’t write her to ask about it. Secondly, there are clues in the photo that tell me that it is not a stained glass sundial at all, but rather a painted wall sundial. If you look closely at the photo, the hour numerals are not reversed on the outside of the building photo as is customary with stained glass dials. Also, it looks like the paint has peeled back and fallen off in the lower right side of the dial revealing white plaster underneath. And I do see any lead came. It’s a nice dial nevertheless. Have any of you ever seen it and know where it is located? Do you have any better photos of it? Thanks John --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: SGS or PWS in Belgium?
To all of you searching in Brussels for the mosaic sundial mentioned by John Carmichael. When you are in Brussels, visit an other worth seeing sundial. Pictures and information: http://www.wijzerweb.be/brussel001A.html Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Sundial time marks in France.
David, The construction of an analemmatic sundial is the same for all places with the same latitude. To make it able to indicate the official time you should take into account the longitude and the time zone of the place but also the equation of time and that is not easy. But a sundial is not intended for indicating the official time. Therefore you have a watch. The challenge of a sundial is that it indicates real time and that it leads to reflecting about the difference between real time and official time. Greatings. Willy LEENDERS Kloosterlaan 60 B-3500 Hasselt Tel. 32 (0)11 72 04 47 www.wijzerweb.be Op 24-nov-08, om 12:17 heeft [EMAIL PROTECTED] het volgende geschreven: I must be getting old... I'm doing a design for an analemmatic dial in France. France is in the GMT time zone but chooses to be +1 on GMT in the winter months and +2 in the summer months (daylight saving). I have the co-ordinates etc for the dial's lat and long - no problem here. Am I right in labelling the hour points as follows, for showing winter months... The hour point nearest to the meridian line (which would have been 12 in UK) will be 1 pm in France. If the dial is to indicate daylight saving hours, then the point nearest top the meridian will be labelled 2pm. Best wishes to all in these sun-less days David Brown Somerton, Somerset, UK --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Satellite Antenna Sundial
The antenna must be rotated to face the satellite position in the sky. Thus the pattern of hour lines and de position of the pole style cannot be the same for alle places. Is each satellite "customer tailored"? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 27-nov-08, om 12:51 heeft Josef Pastor het volgende geschreven: Dear Dialists, the "German Satellite TV Sets - producer" FUBA from Muenster/ Westphalia offers actually a special edition of "parabolic sundial satellite antennas". Two versions are available. These have an diameter of 85 cm. For the technical details look at: http://shop.fuba.de/index.php?cat=c1816859_85-cm-Klasse.html Best regards Josef Pastor ___ --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: CORRECTION Satellite Antenna Sundial
Oeps! It must be: Is each antenna "customer tailored"? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 27-nov-08, om 12:51 heeft Josef Pastor het volgende geschreven: Dear Dialists, the "German Satellite TV Sets - producer" FUBA from Muenster/ Westphalia offers actually a special edition of "parabolic sundial satellite antennas". Two versions are available. These have an diameter of 85 cm. For the technical details look at: http://shop.fuba.de/index.php?cat=c1816859_85-cm-Klasse.html Best regards Josef Pastor ___ --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Satellite Antenna Sundial
The antenna must be rotated to face the satellite position in the sky. Thus the pattern of hour lines and de position of the pole style cannot be the same for alle places. Is each satellite "customer tailored"? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 27-nov-08, om 12:51 heeft Josef Pastor het volgende geschreven: Dear Dialists, the "German Satellite TV Sets - producer" FUBA from Muenster/ Westphalia offers actually a special edition of "parabolic sundial satellite antennas". Two versions are available. These have an diameter of 85 cm. For the technical details look at: http://shop.fuba.de/index.php?cat=c1816859_85-cm-Klasse.html Best regards Josef Pastor ___ --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
considerations on the occasion of a leap second
At New Year clocks will be stopped during one second so that they would be in line with the slower rotating earth. There are calls to not do so and to save the seconds to the time that the difference is 1 hour. If this is to succeed we will have to explain the difference between the real local time, shown on a sundial, and the civil time by four instead of three causes: the difference in longitude, the equation of time, the summer time and then the changing speed of the earth too. And those who want by hook and by crook to make sundials that indicate civil time will have a difficulty more. One more reason to indicate only the real local time by a sundial. This is my opinion: A sundial that indicates the civill time, gives you no more information than you've already on your watch. Besides, you have to account for the equation of time (EOT) and for summer time or winter time. A sundial that indicates the real time, the solar time, is easy to read and gives you information that you do'nt have. Calculations should not be made. Its challenge is that it incites to reflect about the difference between civil time and reall time. Happy New Year, a second later this year! Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
sundial at the 'Prinsenhof' in Groningen
On my website now you can see an explanation of the sundial at the 'Prinsenhof' in Groningen (1731), the most beautifull sundial in the Netherlands. I redesigned the sundial in a more modern version. So it was possible to make things clear layer per layer. The text is in Dutch but for sundial specialists the figures suffice. See http://www.wijzerweb.be/groningen.html Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Relationship between Babylonian, Italian and Solar time
By studying the most beautiful sundial of the Netherlands in Groningen (see http://www.wijzerweb.be/groningen.html) I noticed that a simple relationship exists between the Babylonian time, the Italian time and the solar time (real local time) at a given moment. The equation for this relationship is: (Babylonian time + Italian time) / 2 = solar time Has somebody already mentioned this relationship? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: looking for pictures
François,I send you in a separate mail a photo of my sundial in the snow. See low resolution picture in this mail.Only the upper part of the pole style is to see above the snow.It is the sundial you can see in normal circumstances on my website at page http://www.wijzerweb.be/hasselt003A.htmlI wrote a haiku illustrated by this picture(in Dutch language)De zonnewijzergeeft ondergesneeuwdalleen de wintertijd aan.(translation)The sundialunder the snow it indicatesonly winter time.Best Regards.Willy LEENDERSHasselt in Flanders (Belgium)www.wijzerweb.be Op 1-apr-09, om 19:53 heeft François BLATEYRON (CS) het volgende geschreven: Dear all I am preparing a presentation on sundials and time, and in order to illustrate one part, I am looking for pictures of sundials under severe weather conditions (snow, wind, ice rain, flows…) If someone has such picture, I would greatly appreciate to receive a copy. I will use these pictures only for that presentation I will give to a local university, and will mention a copyright notice. Many thanks for your assistance. François Blateyronwww.shadowspro.com(sundials & astrolabes) ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Sundials in Greece
The sundial in Epidauros in Greece that you can see at the website of Karlheinz on http://www.antike-sonnenuhren.de/fotosaltepidavos.htm has Japanese inscriptions: the signs for the four wind directions and the twelve (chinese) zodiacal signs as ornaments. Epidauros and the Japanese city Nishiki are partner cities. The sundial is a gift of the city of Nishiki. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 25-apr-09, om 10:32 heeft schalda...@aol.com het volgende geschreven: Hi John, it is not a matter of sun how many sundials you will find in a country but of culture. 130 Graeco-Roman dials you will find in the Greek magazines- you will not see many of them in the museums. In Byzantine times the interest in sundials got lost. They had them only in monastries and if a monastry was rich they did many renovations there and between 1500 and 1800 the monks had no more interests in dials: so they disappeared. 1500 to 1800 is also the Ottoman time of Greece. But if you travel through Greece you shall find only few Ottoman buildings especially only few mosques because they were destroyed by the Greeks. And with the mosque also the sundial on it vanished (almost every mosque had a sundial). Also the Venitians had the power on some islands and in some harbour towns.There you shall find also some dials. After Greece became independent, lets say from 1900 till 2000, no interest in sundials reappeared. For instance a sculptor on Tinos who did one for his own but not to sell. I know only of Manfred Hüttig, a German, who worked out some beautiful sundials for Greek customers. Many people in Greece even do not know how a sundial looks like. Such cultural break as in Greece happened in former Yugoslavia also as in Bulgaria or Rumania. Hi Darek, I know about 25 dials from the last 1500 years, most are on my webpage of Greek dials: http://www.antike-sonnenuhren.de/ fotos.h tm Some are not included, f.i. one in Thessaloniki I was engaged in and those of Manfred Hüttig Best wishes Karlheinz Die AOL Toolbar bietet Ihnen schnellen Zugriff auf Ihre Lieblings- Internetseiten und integrierte Google Websuche. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Sundial Bridge
See pictures of the Sundial Bridge at Turtle Bay in the heart of Redding, California. http://nl.trekearth.com/themes.php?thid=3417 Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: A unique occasion
Tony, In my country where the notation of the date is in the order "day / month / year", it happens another time in August this year. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 6-mei-2009, om 13:26 heeft Tony Moss het volgende geschreven: At five minutes and six seconds after 4 AM on the 8th of July this year,the time and date will be 04:05:06 07/08/09. This will not happen again for a thousand years. Tony Moss --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Artikel in Bulletin van De Zonnewijzerkring Nederland
Dag zonen en co, Ter informatie: Ik publiceer regelmatig in 'Zonnetijdingen', het tijdschrift van Zonnewijzerkring Vlaanderen. Nu verscheen er ook een artikel van mij in het 'Bulletin' van Zonnewijzerkring Nederland. Het betreft de beschrijving en mijn berekening van de grootste zonnewijzer van het land in Brussel. Enkele maanden geleden verscheen het artikel ook in Franse vertaling in het tijdschrift van de Franse Association de Cardans Solaires. Als PDF te downloaden. Het artikel vind je op blz. 48 t/m 53 http://www.de-zonnewijzerkring.nl/downloads/zwk-bul-100-mei-2009.zip Pappie--- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: French dam to be world´s biggest sundial
Frans and all, A more understandable version of the video (only in French) about the sundial on the 'barrage de Castillon" (Alpes et Haute Provence, France) is to see at http://video.aol.fr/video-detail/un-cadran-solaire-gant-castillon/ 4136893998 Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 15-jun-2009, om 16:56 heeft Frans W. Maes het volgende geschreven: Dear all, The audio track of the video is bad, so I was unable to hear which dam this is, and how the sundial would function. Does anyone know more about this intriguing project? Best regards, Frans Maes Josef Pastor wrote: Dear Dialists, Famous French Denis Savoie presents a French dam to be world´s biggest sundial on "You Tube". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NJIhliZG4 Best regards Josef Pastor ** - --- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Translations
Is there anyone who understand the mathematics behind the sundial concept, i.e. determining the hour lines so that the curved form of the shadow touches this lines in a point at the concerned time ? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 16-jun-2009, om 12:12 heeft Frans W. Maes het volgende geschreven: Dear Steve and all, Three free translators I sometimes use for websites or short texts, are: - Babelfish: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ - Google: http://translate.google.com/ - Prompt: http://www.online-translator.com/ You may try each on the AFP press release: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ ALeqM5gFPjvks3c5EemskZkRWhCB-Fu_IA and judge the quality (when you read French and English) or see whether you get the message. In this case, the photos set the stage for the story, so that makes it easier. For this limited sample, I think Prompt does a slightly better job than Google, and Babelfish is last. What do you think, Joël? Prompt marks the words that were not translated, such as proper names, which is handy. More generally, a simple original, both in terminology and in grammar, leads to a better translation. That's why e-mail messages often translate badly. For me, the most important paragraph in this text is how the sundial should function: "Innovation de ce cadran: c'est l'ombre même du parapet projetée sur la voûte du barrage qui permet de lire l'heure solaire. Chaque heure est matérialisée par une "ligne horaire" confectionnée avec des plaques en lave émaillée: ocres pour les heures du matin, vertes pour celles de l'après-midi. L'heure solaire est connue lorsque l'ombre tangente l'une de ces lignes." which translates into: Babelfish: Innovation of this dial: it is the shade even parapet projected on the vault of the stopping which makes it possible to read the solar hour. Each hour is materialized by a “time line” made with plates in enamelled lava: ochres for the hours of the morning, green for those of the afternoon. The solar hour is known when the tangent shade one of these lines. Google: Innovation of the dial: the very shadow of the parapet onto the arch dam, which allows you to get the solar time. Each hour is marked by a "line timetable" made with plates in enamelled lava: ochers for the morning, green for those in the afternoon. The solar time is known when the shadow tangent one of these lines. Prompt: Innovation of this face: it is the shadow of the breastwork cast on the arch of the dam which allows to read the solar hour. Every hour is fulfilled by a "line per hour" made with plates in interspersed lava: ochres for hours, green for those of afternoon. The solar hour is known when tangent shadow one of these lines. In the original, the most essential word of the entire story is "tangente", which apparently is used as a verb: the shadow of the edge touches (kisses, osculates) an hour line. This may be an uncommon usage, as all three utilities interpret it as an adjective and try to make at least some sense out of it. And I wonder what the lava strips are made of... Best regards, Frans Maes Steve wrote: Confrere: I am interested in translating email and web pages into English. I use as example the note from Joel about the Castillon Dam. The link contained in his email is to a web page in French and so my question. I use Eudora for mail and have receded to FireFox version 2.00.18. However, I have tried various translators with several versions without much success. My question. Does anyone use a translation program for email and the web, with success. Thanks Steve Yorktown VA At 01:13 PM 6/15/2009, robic.joel wrote: Hello Frans and all, It's the Castillon Dam, see this AFP article, you will understand easiler the principle http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ ALeqM5gFPjvks3c5EemskZkRWhCB-Fu_IA More information is available in French "Cadran Info" magazine (including modelling by Gérard Baillet and calculations from Denis Savoie). Best regards Joël 48°01'25'' N, 1°45'40" O ---> http://www.cadrans-solaires.fr/ - Original Message - From: "Frans W. Maes" To: "Josef Pastor" Cc: ""'Sonnenuhr (Uni Köln)'"" Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:56 PM Subject: Re: French dam to be world´s biggest sundial Dear all, The audio track of the video is bad, so I was unable to hear which dam this is, and how the sundial would function. Does anyone know more about this intriguing project? Best regards, Frans Maes Josef Pastor wrote: Dear Dialists, Famous French Denis Savoie presents a French dam to be world´s biggest sundial on "You Tube". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NJIhliZG4 Best regards Josef Pastor ** ---
Re: Economy Hurts Sundial Sales
John, A good marketing principle: don't sell a product but sell the need for a product. I admit, especially for a sundial, it is not easy. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 20-jul-2009, om 18:47 heeft John Carmichael het volgende geschreven: Hello All: I’m sure some of you are wondering how the current economic conditions have affected the sundial business. As you might guess, it is not good, since we sell luxury non- essential goods. I can only speak for my own business, Sundial Sculptures. Beginning two or three months ago, I began to notice a decrease in sundial orders and inquiries. It has gotten progressively worse. New sales have stopped completely now. I’m only working on completing old orders that were made before the economic crisis began. I’m worried about the future. So, the reason I’m writing you all is to ask for any suggestions that you think might help get more business. I tried improving my website, but that hasn’t helped. Thanks, John John L. Carmichael Sundial Sculptures 925 E. Foothills Dr. Tucson AZ 85718-4716 USA Tel: 520-6961709 Email: jlcarmich...@comcast.net My Websites: (business) Sundial Sculptures: http://www.sundialsculptures.com (educational) Chinook Trail Sundial: http://advanceassociates.com/ Sundials/COSprings/ (educational) Earth & Sky Equatorial Sundial: http:// advanceassociates.com/Sundials/Earth-Sky_Dial/ (educational) My Painted Wall Sundial: http:// www.advanceassociates.com/WallDial (educational) Painted Wall Sundials: http://advanceassociates.com/ WallDial/PWS_Home.html (educational) Stained Glass Sundials: http:// www.stainedglasssundials.com (educational) Sundial Cupolas, Towers & Chimneys: http:// StainedGlassSundials.com/CupolaSundial/index.html --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Symbols for Sunrise and Sunset
Frank,What you think about this? Willy LEENDERSHasselt in Flanders (Belgium)www.wijzerweb.be Op 15-aug-2009, om 21:35 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven:Dear All,A designer friend has asked about symbolsfor sunrise and sunset on sundials.Given the obvious importance of these twopoints of the day I would expect there tobe many examples but I cannot recall anyon sundials and hardly any elsewhere.I have seen the usual astronomical symbolfor the sun (a circle with a dot in themiddle) underlined to mean sunrise andoverlined to mean sunset but I regardthese as ambiguities... [An underlined sun could either be a sun that has just risen or a sun that is about to set!]In almanacs you see "rise" and "set" and Ihave also seen SR and SS but these are notquite what I am wanting!I think the Aztecs used a pair of animalsand the ancient Egyptians used differentgods but I should be pleased to hear aboutother symbols; even a circle with :-) or:-( might have been used by now!!!Frank KingCambridge, U.K.---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Symbols for Sunrise and Sunset
Dear Frank, Not everybody is smiling when the sun rises and frowns at sunset.! Smiling and frowning faces thus are not unambiguous symbols. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 15-aug-2009, om 22:36 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven: Dear Willy, I like your symbols very much!!! There is just one problem... I think my designer friend wants to put these symbols on the horizon line at the beginning and end of the winter solstice curve... Of course, with a rising sun, the shadow of the nodus starts downwards rather than upwards. Perhaps a smiling face and a frowning face really are the answers; the downward curve and the upward curve give the correct hints about the directions! You certainly have the best answer so far! Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Symbols for Sunrise and Sunset
Frank,Mayby this can solve the problem: IWilly LEENDERSHasselt in Flanders (Belgium)www.wijzerweb.be Op 15-aug-2009, om 22:36 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven:Dear Willy,I like your symbols very much!!!There is just one problem... I think my designer friend wants to put these symbols on the horizon line at the beginning and end of the winter solstice curve... Of course, with a rising sun, the shadow of the nodus starts downwards rather than upwards. Perhaps a smiling face and a frowning face really are the answers; the downward curve and the upward curve give the correct hints about the directions!You certainly have the best answer so far!Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Symbols for Sunrise and Sunset
Frank, For astrologers, the time of sunrise and sunset is not necessary. They have only to determine the position of sun, moon and planets in the zodiac and in relation to each other. Greetings. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 16-aug-2009, om 11:32 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven: Dear Willy, Gianni, Carl, Larry, et al, Thank you all for the splendid selection of symbols which I shall pass on. The only ancient one, so far, is the Chinese symbol sent by Carl. This is the kind of thing my designer friend was looking for. I rather like the simple signs myself. The musical crescendo and diminuendo signs have the right kind of simplicity. I still feel surprised that astrologers didn't/don't have such symbols. This is a wonderful list! Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: sailors
A competent astronavigator and also capable sundial expert in Flanders (Belgium) is Willy Ory. He teaches astronavigation and is member of the board of 'Zonnewijzerkring Vlaanderen' (Sundial Society Flanders). He is webmaster of 'Zonnewijzerkring Vlaanderen' http://www.zonnewijzerkringvlaanderen.be/ His adrtes is willy.ory @ skynet.be Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 24-aug-2009, om 20:27 heeft Frank Evans het volgende geschreven: Greetings, fellow dialists, Are there any more sundialling mariners out there beside John Mulholland and me (British Merchant Navy, 1942-9, currently a retired oceanographer)? Or air navigators from the days of bubble sextants? Astronavigators and dialists are the only people remaining who still believe the sun goes round the earth each day. We must keep the old flag flying. Frank 55N 1W (or thereabouts) John Mulholland wrote: Landlubbers, With the utmost respect and admiration, I submit. As a retired merchant mariner navigator I regularly noticed the little log books the sea/harbor pilot used to keep his personal diary: Date/time, name of ship, flag, tonnage. time passing an aid to navigation etc. Asian and European alike used the symbol of a rayed hemisphere above a horizontal line and a rayed hemisphere below the horizon. No arrows required. Unique can be interesting, nice,but universal self evident. KISS A little lunar: I also saw sine curves used with the time of hi-lo water noted above and below the curve with the height. I must say American pilots were generally not as fastidious. I did very much enjoy all the input. John Mulholland Vermont - --- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
clock Prague
Can anyone tell me what time the astronomical clock in Prague shows on this moment (on the scale with Roman numerals)? Is it local mean time or Central European Time (UTC +1)? Between the two there is a difference of 2 minutes 19 seconds. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Dutch sundial
I made a page concerning this sundial on my website. In Dutch language, but the pictures are rather clear. And http://www.wijzerweb.be/groningen.html can help. http://www.wijzerweb.be/groningen.html Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 25-aug-2009, om 20:03 heeft JOHN DAVIS het volgende geschreven: Dear colleagues (especially in the Netherlands) Can anyone tell me anything about the sundial referred to in this extract from a tourist website: Follow the canal to the right until just after Kattenhage, where you can escape the city’s post-war urbanity in the Prinsenhoftuin (Princes’ Court Gardens), originally designed in 1625 with a rose garden and covered paths. When in bloom, the fragrant roses make it impossible not to linger, especially when the Theeschenkerij Tea Hut inside the garden tempts you to order a cup of tea (€0.80) and lounge in the sun or under one of the canopied underpasses. (Tea hut open M-F 10am-6pm, Sa-Su noon-6pm.) On your way out, ponder the advice of the Latin inscription on the sundial above the entrance: Tempus praeteritum nihil. Futurum incertum. Praesens instabile. Cave ne perdas hoc tuum (“The past is nothing, the future uncertain, the present unstable; ensure that you do not lose this time, which is yours alone”). The Latin motto also appears (slightly shortened) on two English double horizontal dials by Thomas Tuttell. Thanks in anticipation! John -- Dr J Davis Flowton Dials --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Dutch sundial CORRECTION
CORRECTION My just sent mail must be: I made a page concerning this sundial on my website. In Dutch language, but the pictures are rather clear. And http://translate.google.com/translate_t#l can help. http://www.wijzerweb.be/groningen.html Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 25-aug-2009, om 20:03 heeft JOHN DAVIS het volgende geschreven: Dear colleagues (especially in the Netherlands) Can anyone tell me anything about the sundial referred to in this extract from a tourist website: Follow the canal to the right until just after Kattenhage, where you can escape the city’s post-war urbanity in the Prinsenhoftuin (Princes’ Court Gardens), originally designed in 1625 with a rose garden and covered paths. When in bloom, the fragrant roses make it impossible not to linger, especially when the Theeschenkerij Tea Hut inside the garden tempts you to order a cup of tea (€0.80) and lounge in the sun or under one of the canopied underpasses. (Tea hut open M-F 10am-6pm, Sa-Su noon-6pm.) On your way out, ponder the advice of the Latin inscription on the sundial above the entrance: Tempus praeteritum nihil. Futurum incertum. Praesens instabile. Cave ne perdas hoc tuum (“The past is nothing, the future uncertain, the present unstable; ensure that you do not lose this time, which is yours alone”). The Latin motto also appears (slightly shortened) on two English double horizontal dials by Thomas Tuttell. Thanks in anticipation! John -- Dr J Davis Flowton Dials --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: ZW2000
Dear Fer, For when a ZW2000 version for Mac computers? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 1-sep-2009, om 12:14 heeft fer de vries het volgende geschreven: Dear friends, A few months ago John Carmichael warned me that my program ZW2000 didn't work on his new 64 bit computer with Vista64. In the mean time I succeeded to make changes in the program and John reported to me that it works on his new computer. So now there is a vesion that works with 32 and 64 bit computers. The most important changes I had to make have to do with the file handling. This means that sundíals, computed with one version, can't be imported in the other version. But this doesn't affact the main goal of the program to make a .dxf file for use in a CAD program. The other changes I had to make are of minor importance. The new version is ZW2000 version 2-0. This version, including the manual, is for download available at: http://www.de-zonnewijzerkring.nl/downloads/ZW2000version2.zip The .zip files extracts to a folder ZW2000-v2 The manual extracts to a subfolder manual-v2 The program's name still is ZW2000.exe The new version is also avalilble on the electronic version of Compendium September 2009. Request to users with a 64 bit computer: Please try this new version and tell me about your experiences. Best wishes, Fer. Fer J. de Vries De Zonnewijzerkring http://www.de-zonnewijzerkring.nl Molens http://www.collsemolen.dse.nl Eindhoven, Netherlands lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Direct reading time.
An impressive and sophisticated mechanism as solution that (hardly) nobody asks for a problem that (hardly) nobody has. A sundial that indicates the civill time, gives you no more information than you've already on your watch. A sundial that indicates the real time, the solar time, is easy to read without corrections and gives you information that you do'nt have. Its challenge is that it incites to reflect about the difference between civil time and reall time. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 27-sep-2009, om 6:48 heeft Robert Bargalló het volgende geschreven: -- Forwarded message -- From: Robert Bargalló Date: 2009/9/17 Subject: Direct reading time. To: Robert Bargalló Hello All, When an inexperienced person examine a well constructed Sundial, often underestimate the instrument because it is not marking the official time and having to make some “antipathetic” corrections of the indicated time. That is the main reason we have built a sundial that gives civil time accurately, enough to adjust the minute a non solar clock that it has stopped. In a word, in our quadrant needless resort to the equation of time or to the local position versus the Meridian corresponding to the time zone. No arithmetic corrections are needed. Descriptively, the device is a horizontal sundial with a gnomon consisting in thin thread nylon. The mechanism presents a 48 teeth gear, powered by an endless screw, which allows the entire clock to rotate some degrees around an axis parallel to the Earth rotation axis (around the gnomon). In other words, the mobile set plays like a hypothetical sundial indicating the exact civil time is elsewhere, in another position but in the same geographic parallel. As to the accuracy, the quadrant presents marks of all the minutes from the 5 h 45 a.m. until the 8 h 15 p.m. The single need featuring the device is that one or twice a week requires adjusts a rotatable knob to indicate the current date. This disc, of course, acts on the endless screw and, for that reason, on the rotation. Really, the rotation movement compensates not only the equation of the time, but also the error caused for the geographic longitude position of the instrument. For the same method we can use the sundial giving 3 types of time: the local solar time, the standard time, or the daylight savings. Since we installed it, from November 2006 to date, it has indicated time with an error that in no case exceeded one minute. Happy Dialling! Robert Bargalló More information at next blog --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Sundial worth 60,000 pound is stolen
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/8277198.stm Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: no analemman
I am not in favor of sundials that indicate civil time. See my post a few days ago. Yet, here attached a picture of a sundial that complies to your proposal. Willy LEENDERSHasselt in Flanders (Belgium)www.wijzerweb.beOp 4-okt-2009, om 21:42 heeft Frank Evans het volgende geschreven:Greetings fellow dialists,I'm not a great lover of displaying the equation of time on dials, except for maybe the finest. The main disadvantage, it seems to me, apart from the messiness of the addition of the analemma curve or a table of values, is the demand upon the viewer to make some understanding of what might appear rather complicated.Have there, I wonder, been dials made which simply show the required correction for the current month, e.g. "[October] For clock time apply [-14 minutes]"? Variables are in brackets and the correction is for mid-month, near enough for dials which are divided to quarter hours or worse. These are the vast majority. The correction would require monthly attention, of course, but it would be possible to insert two interconnected windows, one for the month and one for the correction, in the dial plate to accomplish this. And of course the month could be set by the observer if desired. Longitude, too, could be included, to satisfy the clever fellows who examine the dial and then knowingly consult their watches.But am I going over already trodden ground? Do such dials already exist?Frank 55N 1W---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: no analemman
A sophistcated construction (and not cheap !) is the adjustable sundial POLARIS of Helios in Wiesbaden (Germany). It has a ring for adjusting to CET and CEST and a kind of vernier scale for adjusting EOT Solar time is also to adjuste !!! See http://www.helios-sonnenuhren.de/Polaris-1000-Fotogalerie.html Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) www.wijzerweb.be Op 4-okt-2009, om 21:42 heeft Frank Evans het volgende geschreven: Greetings fellow dialists, I'm not a great lover of displaying the equation of time on dials, except for maybe the finest. The main disadvantage, it seems to me, apart from the messiness of the addition of the analemma curve or a table of values, is the demand upon the viewer to make some understanding of what might appear rather complicated. Have there, I wonder, been dials made which simply show the required correction for the current month, e.g. "[October] For clock time apply [-14 minutes]"? Variables are in brackets and the correction is for mid-month, near enough for dials which are divided to quarter hours or worse. These are the vast majority. The correction would require monthly attention, of course, but it would be possible to insert two interconnected windows, one for the month and one for the correction, in the dial plate to accomplish this. And of course the month could be set by the observer if desired. Longitude, too, could be included, to satisfy the clever fellows who examine the dial and then knowingly consult their watches. But am I going over already trodden ground? Do such dials already exist? Frank 55N 1W --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Another Human Gnomon Horizontal?
Other pictures and and a picture of Google maps where you can see that the the rectangle with little boxes is directed exact north - southhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/leprecon/97106245/in/photostream/http://www.flickr.com/photos/leprecon/97106416/in/photostream/Willy LEENDERSHasselt in Flanders (Belgium)see my website with sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and things worth knowing about sundials (in Dutch language)www.wijzerweb.be Op 23-okt-2009, om 20:45 heeft John Carmichael het volgende geschreven: I found this photo of a beautiful large spiral-shaped sundial that looks like it might be another rare human gnomon horizontal dial. It’s located at Argyle Square in the Melbourne suburb of Carlton, Victoria, Australia. See the rectangle with little boxes in it on the meridian line? I think these little boxes are human height markers. To use the sundial, one stands on the box that corresponds to his height. But it is difficult to see what the text is inside these little boxes because the photo is not very large. http://www.flickr.com/photos/adonline/2895001478 ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Location aerial photography online
Thibaud, You have to go to http://www.bing.com/maps Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 30-okt-2009, om 20:24 heeft Th. Taudin Chabot het volgende geschreven: When I go to www.bing.com I get a search engine but no maps. Thibaud At 14:40 30-10-2009, J. Tallman wrote: If I can't get a good result because the location is a new home in a new development, I go to bing.com and check it on their maps/ aerials. They seem to have more recent aerial imagery much of the time. Jim Tallman Th. Taudin Chabot, . tcha...@dds.nl --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Another Human Gnomon ... Vertical in Bruz (France)
Hi Joël, Congratulations ! An exceptional sundial. You can also call it a 'shadow plane sundial': on a certain hour the heads of all the persons, regardless of the size of the person, are in the same (shadow) plane together with the hour line of that time. A special feature for mathematicians: the curved lines of the drawing on the wall are catenaries. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 2-nov-2009, om 11:26 heeft robic.joel het volgende geschreven: Hi John, Patrick, Willy, Fer and all, Here is the new one I began last winter: http://www.cadrans-solaires.fr/style-humain-bruz.html the vertical morning part is finished now, I will complete later by the horizontal afternoon part Best wishes Joël http://www.cadrans-solaires.fr/ --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Origin of the Analemma figure?
Hi Jack, In addition to the responses you get, the etymology of the Greek word 'analemma' is interesting. In early Greek language 'ana' may imply some motion or at least extension and means up along, up through. 'lemma' derives from 'lambano' = receive 'analemma' is what you receive or see from above, a top view Therefore the word is used by the Roman engineer architect Vitruvius to refer to a graphical construction, equivalent to today's orthographic projection. This ethymology explains the use of 'analemma' in 'analemmatic sundial". An analemmatic sundial is an orthographic projection of an equatorial sundial. See http://www.fransmaes.nl/zonnewijzers/welcome-e.htm go to Analemmatic - extra info Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 15-nov-2009, om 0:18 heeft Jack Aubert het volgende geschreven: I recently revised my notes for a sundial talk I was giving which included a section on the EOT, and its connection with the traditional figure 8 analemma. I wanted to explain its origin, or at least be able to answer the question if asked, but have not been able to find any believable references on how it emerged. I assume that the source of the figure is simply a “connect the dots” picture of what the sun, or a gnomon pointer will trace it out over the course of the year projected onto a surface. But I do not see how the dots can be generated without using an external non-solar source of time. The Wikipedia article on the EOT has a confusing statement to the effect that Ptolomey was aware of the variation in the sun’s movement and even devoted a chapter to the subject, but then says that he did not correctly account for the two sources of variation. Is there any evidence that the Greeks or Romans ware aware of, and used, the analemma representation, perhaps generated by reference to a clepsydra, or did it first appear when mechanical clocks became prevalent? Jack --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Analemma origins.
You can see a picture of the analemma curve of Tonnerre designed in the 18C by a Benedictine monk and the astronomer LaLande (1732-1807) at http://horlogeriepassion.free.fr/ancien/premiers/instrument.htm Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 15-nov-2009, om 20:38 heeft Roger Bailey het volgende geschreven: In the town of Apt in Provence, France are a couple of meridians by P.E. Pascal showing mean time with the analemma. I recently waymarked these sundials on www.waymarking.com, See http:// www.waymarking.com/waymarks/ WM7KNW_Pascal_Meridian_and_Sundial_1834_Apt_France and http:// www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM7KMY_Pascal_Meridian_1844_Apt_France I doubt that these are first meridians with the analemma but it is interesting to note that Pascal gives on the 1844 meridian a reference to the 1760 book by Dom Francois Bedos de Celles "La Gnomonique Practique ou l'Art de Tracer les Cadrans Solaires avec la Plus Grand Precision". Although I struggle with French, this looks like a great book on sundial design. In the extensive tables towards the end, Bedos gives values for the equation of time and declination. These are plotted in the now familiar figure of eight in plates 26 and 27 right at the back of the book. Unfortunately the scan of the copy available on Google books does not reproduce these plates very well. The original that Google scanned is in the New York Public Library. Are their earlier publications that show the use of the analemma? Flamsteed? Grandjean de Fouchy? Lalande? We had this discussion a few years ago and here is a clip from my note 17 Oct 2005. Check the BSS glossary chronology on line. The French connection is listed for 1740 "The modern figure-8 form of the analemma curve is conceived by Jean Paul Grandjean de Fouchy, secretary of the Académie des Sciences, Paris." It also earlier notes Flamsteed's EoT in 1675 http://www.sundialsoc.org.uk/glossary/chronology/chronology.htm The analemma on the analemmatic dial at Brou in 1756 by J. J. de LaLande is a latter addition , but LaLande's analemma noon mark on the floor of the Ancien Hopital in Tonnerre is an original. I have seen the analemma but don't have a picture or a good date reference. The green Michelin Guide for Burgundy Jura says "Note the gnomon (sundial) on the paving, designed in the 18C by a Benedictine monk and the astronomer LaLande (1732-1807)". Regards, Roger Bailey Walking Shadow From: Jack Aubert Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:11 AM To: 'Fred Sawyer' ; 'Sundial List' Subject: RE: Analemma origins. I think this was really a two part question. The first question is the historical origins of the discrepancy between apparent and mean solar time. I look forward to reading Kevin Karney’s discussion of Ptolemy’s treatment of this which should answer the first question. But there is a distinction between the equation of time itself and the use of the figure 8 analemma to represent it. John Carmichael rephrased the second question more explicitly: “Could the analemma have been discovered without the empirical methods using just astronomy and math…” Fred Sawyer writes: “The figure 8 is usually attributed to Grandjean de Fouchy…” Fred’s encyclopedic knowledge can be taken as authoritative with respect to the first appearance the figure. But the coordinate system that generates the figure 8 plot is virtually unique and is not something that one would normally come up with to display any arbitrary time series, so I think it must have been discovered empirically either by Grandjean de Fauchy himself or by others who lived before him. Grandjean de Fauchy lived from 1707 to 1788, well into the clock era. Could the figure have been “discovered” without a clock (I am counting a clepsydra as a clock) and are there any antecedents that predate the mechanical clock era? Jack From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni- koeln.de] On Behalf Of Fred Sawyer Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:30 PM To: Sundial List Subject: Analemma origins. Sent from my iPod Begin forwarded message: From: Fred Sawyer Date: November 14, 2009 7:11:18 PM EST To: John Carmichael Subject: Re: Analemma origins. The next issue of the compendium will have an article by Kevin Karney showing Ptolemy's treatment of the equation of time - it does not require a clock. The figure 8 is usually attributed to Grandjean de Fouchy - perhaps incorrectly - but this is only a graphical way to display sething that had been known but not completely understood for centuries. Fred Sent from my iPod On Nov 14, 2009, at 6:58 PM, "John Carmichael" wrote: Hi Tony et a
Re: 2 minutes 35 seconds for a sundial from Negrar in ITALY
Impressive, ... but it is regrettable that the sundial doesn't indicate solar time and therefore indicates only four times a year a right time. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 7-dec-2009, om 22:11 heeft Reinhold Kriegler het volgende geschreven: Dear friends, may I recommend a new film of 2 minutes and 35 seconds about a big sundial with a very good spirit in Negrar, province of Verona in Italy, built by Giuseppe Ferlenga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&v=R9Rm5XA3XXc Le principali fasi di realizzazione della meridiana monumentale di Negrar in provincia di Verona (Italia). La scultura-strumento, progettata dall'architetto Giuseppe Ferlenga, è alta sette metri ed ha un diametro di cinque. Per la sua realizzazione sono stati impiegati circa 2000 chilogrammi tra acciaio, alluminio ed ottone. Quest'arredo è stato inaugurato nel giugno 2008. And if you have some more time… may I recommend this link to you: http://www.ta-dip.de/173,0,g-ferlenga-armillare-monumentale-di- negrar,index,0.html Best regards! Reinhold Kriegler * ** *** * ** *** Reinhold R. Kriegler Lat. 53° 6' 52,6" Nord; Long. 8° 53' 52,3 Ost; 48 m ü. N.N. www.ta-dip.de http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=XyCoJHwzzjU&fmt=18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ltEOis7ScM --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: zodiac lengths
Hi Hendrik, Paul de Kort is a good artist and he makes exceptional artworks and design. When he involves the sciences astronomy and astrology in his work he hits the wrong ball, however. A sundial is primarily a scientific instrument. The zodiac is a scientifically determined reference system. A "constellation of the zodiac" is a nonexistent concept. A "constellation of stars" exists. A "zodiac sign" exist too. He (and you) confuses the two. And therefore, what he wrote in the brochure about the park in the suburb Saendelft in Zaanstad, is nonsense. He wrote: "In several thousand years, the signs of the zodiac are shifted from the position of the Earth and the Sun We also see that the sun is not exactly during one month in a given sign, such as astrology says, deluding us. This varies from sign to sign and a few days to almost one and a half month. And when you are born in early December, you are born under the sign of Ophiuchus, the 13th sign! " Astrology and astronomy doesn't have differences in their definition of ecliptic and Vernal Equinox or the location of constellations, zodiac signs, sun, moon and planets in the ecliptic. It is a big misconception that astrologers place their reference system in the stars and do'nt take account of the precession. In the reference system of astrologers the precession is not useful. Stars and constellations do'nt have a place in it. Even if there were no stars the astrology would still have its reference system. It consists of a system of positioning in the the ecliptic, starting from the vernal equinox, divided into 12 equal parts. In this system the position of the sun, moon and planets are projected, as seen from the Earth. Their place in the ecliptic (at a given time, the birth a person for example) and how they interrelate (opposite each other, overlapping, in angles of 150, 120, 90, 60 and 30 degrees) is the underlying pattern that astrologers use. I simplify here, not talking about the Ascendant. I am not talking about the statements by astrologers based on this reference system. That is because it is outside the domain of astronomy. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 23-dec-2009, om 8:45 heeft Analemma zonnewijzers het volgende geschreven: Hi All, This reminds me of a sundial, made by Landscape artist Paul de Kort in Zaanstad/The Netherlands. For dialing usually the zodiac-signs are defined as 30 degrees of the ecliptica. However, the true sun will pass the 12 constellations of the zodiac and also the constellation Ophiuchus (dutch: 'slangedrager'). Paul did make a sundial in which this 13th 'zodiac'-constellation is incorporated. Very nice. for more work of Paul see: www.pauldekort.nl for the sundial, see (page 6): http://www.pauldekort.nl/ _backgrounds/getijdenpark%20BROCHURE%20lowres.pdf kind regards, Hendrik Hollander -- Analemma zonnewijzers Hendrik Hollander tel: 020 637 43 83 mob: 06 16 462 879 www.analemma.nl www.linkedin.com/in/hendrikhollander -- lees de disclaimer: www.analemma.nl/maildisclaimer.htm -- - Original Message - From: "Bill Gottesman" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:51 PM Subject: Re: zodiac lengths Well done, Frank! -Bill Gottesman Frank King wrote: > Dear Thomas, > > You ask interesting questions and the > answers depend slightly on just how > precisely you want the model the way > the sun goes round the ecliptic. > > QUESTION 1 > > ... do [Gemini and Cancer] share > *exactly* the same region [on a > sundial] or not? > > I think it is reasonable to DEFINE > the 12 regions of the Zodiac as being > bounded at 30-degree intervals of > solar *longitude*. So Aries extends > from 0 to 30 and so on. > > On the ecliptic, these 12 regions are > distinct and there is no sharing. > > When you look at the corresponding > intervals of solar *declination* > you do, as you say, get sharing. > > In your example: > >Sign Longitude Declination > range range > > Gemini60 to 90 20.15 to 23.44 > > Cancer90 to 12023.44 to 20.15 > > As you see, Gemini and Cancer share the > same range of declinations but for Gemini > the declination is increasing and for > Cancer is decreasing. > > The answer to your question is YES. > > So far, this theory has nothing to do with > the *shape* of the Earth's orbit but it does > assume that the orbit is a plane which is > isn't exactly. > > [Solar latitude hovers around zero but it >
Re: zodiac lengths
I believe you, Hendrik, but you will have to admit that the text in the brochure about the park in the suburb Saendelft in Zaanstad is very carelessly written. Kind regards. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 24-dec-2009, om 9:43 heeft Analemma zonnewijzers het volgende geschreven: Hi Willy, No worries, Paul and I are totally aware of the differences between "constellations of stars" and "zodiac signs". Also how the precession of the earth influences the position of the Vernal Equinox with respect to the contellations of stars and why my sign is Cancer since my birthday is the 1st of July, although the position of the sun is in the constellation Gemini. Paul, as an artist, made an object which, among other things, enables people to start a discussion about these subjects and I think he has succeed very well! kind regards, Hendrik Hollander -- Analemma zonnewijzers Hendrik Hollander tel: 020 637 43 83 mob: 06 16 462 879 www.analemma.nl www.linkedin.com/in/hendrikhollander -- - Original Message - From: Willy Leenders To: i...@analemma.nl Cc: Bill Gottesman ; sundial@uni-koeln.de ; Paul de Kort Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 1:23 PM Subject: Re: zodiac lengths Hi Hendrik, Paul de Kort is a good artist and he makes exceptional artworks and design. When he involves the sciences astronomy and astrology in his work he hits the wrong ball, however. A sundial is primarily a scientific instrument. The zodiac is a scientifically determined reference system. A "constellation of the zodiac" is a nonexistent concept. A "constellation of stars" exists. A "zodiac sign" exist too. He (and you) confuses the two. And therefore, what he wrote in the brochure about the park in the suburb Saendelft in Zaanstad, is nonsense. He wrote: "In several thousand years, the signs of the zodiac are shifted from the position of the Earth and the Sun We also see that the sun is not exactly during one month in a given sign, such as astrology says, deluding us. This varies from sign to sign and a few days to almost one and a half month. And when you are born in early December, you are born under the sign of Ophiuchus, the 13th sign! " Astrology and astronomy doesn't have differences in their definition of ecliptic and Vernal Equinox or the location of constellations, zodiac signs, sun, moon and planets in the ecliptic. It is a big misconception that astrologers place their reference system in the stars and do'nt take account of the precession. In the reference system of astrologers the precession is not useful. Stars and constellations do'nt have a place in it. Even if there were no stars the astrology would still have its reference system. It consists of a system of positioning in the the ecliptic, starting from the vernal equinox, divided into 12 equal parts. In this system the position of the sun, moon and planets are projected, as seen from the Earth. Their place in the ecliptic (at a given time, the birth a person for example) and how they interrelate (opposite each other, overlapping, in angles of 150, 120, 90, 60 and 30 degrees) is the underlying pattern that astrologers use. I simplify here, not talking about the Ascendant. I am not talking about the statements by astrologers based on this reference system. That is because it is outside the domain of astronomy. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 23-dec-2009, om 8:45 heeft Analemma zonnewijzers het volgende geschreven: Hi All, This reminds me of a sundial, made by Landscape artist Paul de Kort in Zaanstad/The Netherlands. For dialing usually the zodiac- signs are defined as 30 degrees of the ecliptica. However, the true sun will pass the 12 constellations of the zodiac and also the constellation Ophiuchus (dutch: 'slangedrager'). Paul did make a sundial in which this 13th 'zodiac'-constellation is incorporated. Very nice. for more work of Paul see: www.pauldekort.nl for the sundial, see (page 6): http://www.pauldekort.nl/ _backgrounds/getijdenpark%20BROCHURE%20lowres.pdf kind regards, Hendrik Hollander -- Analemma zonnewijzers Hendrik Hollander tel: 020 637 43 83 mob: 06 16 462 879 www.analemma.nl www.linkedin.com/in/hendrikhollander -- lees de disclaimer: www.analemma.nl/maildisclaimer.htm -- - Original Message - From: "Bill Gottesman" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:51 PM Subject: Re: zodiac lengt
exactly six hundred years old astronomical clock of Prague
The exactly six hundred years old astronomical clock of Prague inspired me for my wishes for 2010. You'll find them on my web site at http://www.wijzerweb.be/ wishes2010.html Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
the tallest gnomon
Burj Dubai, the World’s Tallest Skyscraper, is the tallest gnomon. See its shadow at: http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/01/04/the-burj-dubai-casts-an- impressive-shadow/ Ik groet je. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
with a single click, the difference between clock time and solar time
To orient a sundial or to check if it is correctly oriented, it is useful to know what is the difference between clock time and solar time. Therefore it is required to know the longitude of the place, the equation of time and whether or not daylight saving time is in effect. Laypeople find this too difficult. On my website you can find with a single click, without calculation, the difference between clock time and solar time for every place and every date in Flanders (Brussels included), and the Netherlands . (The population of Flanders and the Netherlands is 24 million of habitants) You find a calendar at http://www.wijzerweb.be/ kalendervlaanderen&nederland.html Click on the desired date. Then you get a map of Flanders and the Netherlands. At the time zones you will find the number of minutes that clock time is in advance of solar time at the chosen date (rounded to 1 minute). When daylight saving time is in effect add 1 hour. (In Flanders and the Netherlands, clock time is always in advance of solar time) Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Earth quake in Chile
As the Earth moves, the dials on the earth moves too. And the relative position of the pool style compared to the Earth's axis remains the same. The pool styles remain everywhere parallel to the Earth's axis. If they were previously so at least. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 11-mrt-2010, om 10:23 heeft Dariusz Oczki het volgende geschreven: > Dear Dialists > > In TV news some time ago it was said that the recent earth quake in Chile was > so powerfull it somehow moved the Earth's axis. Is it possible this will > influence accuracy of sundials made before the incident? > > Kind regards > Darek Oczki, Warszawa > > GNOMONIKA.pl > Zegary słoneczne, czyli słoneczniki > http://gnomonika.pl > > Klub Miłośników Zegarów i Zegarków > Dział zegarów słonecznych > http://zegarkiclub.pl/forum/index.php?showforum=100 > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Sundial software
Thank you, Yvon, for the program you provides. But I can not apply it because this is again a program that users of Apple computers can not use. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 27-mrt-2010, om 19:22 heeft Yvon Massé het volgende geschreven: > Dear all, > > I am pleased to inform you that the sundial software I wrote, Calcad, is now > available in English language. > > Calcad is a new approach in the practical design of sundial for no > specialist because the usual parameters are not used. Other originality, the > first stage of the method is the drawing of the outline that can be drawn > crooked... > > All the plane sundials are concerned without difference in the instructions > for use, it is just needed to measure two shadow points. To summarize: > Calcad allows you to create 80 % of the sundials with only 20 % of gnomonic > knowledge. > > Calcad is supplied with complete help and user's manual. You will find a > preliminary version (1823 Ko) at: > http://pagesperso-orange.fr/ymasse/divers/install_calcad_vxxmars10.exe > > I will be pleased to receive your comments and remarks. I will appreciate > particularly if someone would accept to correct the language mistakes I > made. This will give a nice tool for beginners in gnomonic. > > Yvon Massé > > > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Drawing that belongs to the theorem of Emerson
This is the address where you can find "Dialing or the art of drawing dials" (1770) by William Emerson: http://books.google.be/books?id=-bk2MAAJ&pg=PA177&dq=%22william+emerson%22+art+dialing&ei=Iya7S9yoLYSqywTRh_k5&cd=8#v=onepage&q&f=false On page 42 (page 220 of the scanned pages) you can find proposition XXIV: "In any dial whatever, if a line be drawn parallel to any hourline, to intersect the other hour lines, and note the sixth hour line from this. Then any two hour lines on each side this sixth, which are equidistant in hours, will also be equidistant along this parallel line." (known as the Theorem of William Emerson). The drawing (fig. 11) used in the proof of the theorem is not scanned. Can someone send me that picture? Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) willy.leend...@pandora.be Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Drawing that belongs to the theorem of Emerson
Thank you, Fred (Sawyer) and Chris (Lusby Taylor) for delivering the drawing. Now I can follow the train of thougth of William Emerson and I can even formulate a simpler proof of his theorem. It suffices to prove that in an equatorial sundial the two line segments on the parallel line, on both sides of the hour line that is 6 hours away from the chosen hour line, are equal. (And that's easy) Then you can conclude that it is the case in any pole-style sundial, applying two general propositions: 1. Any pole-style sundial is always the projection of an equatorial sundial and each line segment in the sundial is the projection of a line segment of the equatorial sundial 2. The projection of a line segment devided into two equal parts has always the form of a line segment divided into two equal parts. Best wishes. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 9-apr-2010, om 11:53 heeft Chris Lusby Taylor het volgende geschreven: > Hi Willy, > No, but I bet it looks like this. > > Best wishes > Chris > - Original Message - > From: Willy Leenders > To: Sundial sundiallist > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 7:22 PM > Subject: Drawing that belongs to the theorem of Emerson > > This is the address where you can find "Dialing or the art of drawing dials" > (1770) by William Emerson: > http://books.google.be/books?id=-bk2MAAJ&pg=PA177&dq=%22william+emerson%22+art+dialing&ei=Iya7S9yoLYSqywTRh_k5&cd=8#v=onepage&q&f=false > > On page 42 (page 220 of the scanned pages) you can find proposition XXIV: "In > any dial whatever, if a line be drawn parallel to any hourline, to intersect > the other hour lines, and note the sixth hour line from this. Then any two > hour lines on each side this sixth, which are equidistant in hours, will also > be equidistant along this parallel line." (known as the Theorem of William > Emerson). > > The drawing (fig. 11) used in the proof of the theorem is not scanned. > Can someone send me that picture? > > > Willy LEENDERS > Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) > willy.leend...@pandora.be > > Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders > (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials > www.wijzerweb.be > > > > > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: portugal
Thomas, The sundial in the abbey of Alcobaça is very interessant. I wil sent you pictures in a separate e-mail. Greetings Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 4-jun-2010, om 13:05 heeft Thomas Steiner het volgende geschreven: > hi > I'll be in Protugal over the next two weeks: Does anybody have a map > of interesting sundials there? > Thanks, > thomas > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Longest day calculations
Using the formula of John Schilke I become 244,74 hours (above the horizon), for latitude 51° and declination 23,44°Using my formula (see picture) I become 16,32 hours. Willy LEENDERSHasselt in Flanders (Belgium)Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundialswww.wijzerweb.be Op 1-jul-2010, om 22:39 heeft John Schilke het volgende geschreven:On 2010 July 1, at 10:12, John Goodman wrote: I'm looking for a simple formula which calculates the number of hours that the sun will be above the horizon on the summer solstice for any given latitude. I don't need to worry about refraction, or take into account the sun's diameter. I'm just interested in the simple geometric case, using the center of the sun's disk for determining the start and end times. For my purposes, these simple relationships will be true: If the answer for summer solstice hours is SSH, then winter solstice hours will be 24 - SSH, and equinox hours will be 12, regardless of the latitude.John,It would seem simplest to use the old formula cos T = – tan φ tan δ (latitude and declination, respectively)then, H (hours above the horizon) = 2 arc cos T, approximately.That is, in fact, how I usually do it, quickly and easily.Your other statements are correct.Best wishes,John ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial--- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Longest day calculations
The formula of John Schilke is a good one when you divide the result by 15 Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 1-jul-2010, om 22:58 heeft Willy Leenders het volgende geschreven: > Using the formula of John Schilke I become 244,74 hours (above the horizon), > for latitude 51° and declination 23,44° > Using my formula (see picture) I become 16,32 hours. > > > Willy LEENDERS > Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) > > Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders > (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials > www.wijzerweb.be > > > > Op 1-jul-2010, om 22:39 heeft John Schilke het volgende geschreven: > >> >> On 2010 July 1, at 10:12, John Goodman wrote: >> I'm looking for a simple formula which calculates the number of >> hours that the sun will be above the horizon on the summer solstice >> for any given latitude. I don't need to worry about refraction, or >> take into account the sun's diameter. I'm just interested in the >> simple geometric case, using the center of the sun's disk for >> determining the start and end times. >> For my purposes, these simple relationships will be true: If the >> answer for summer solstice hours is SSH, then winter solstice hours >> will be 24 - SSH, and equinox hours will be 12, regardless of the >> latitude. >> >> John, >> >> It would seem simplest to use the old formula >> >> cos T = – tan φ tan δ >> (latitude and declination, respectively) >> >> then, H (hours above the horizon) = 2 arc cos T, approximately. >> >> That is, in fact, how I usually do it, quickly and easily. >> >> Your other statements are correct. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> John >> --- >> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Longest day calculations
Using the formula of John Schilke I become 244,74 hours (above the horizon), for latitude 51° and declination 23,44°Using my formula (see picture) I become 16,32 hours. Willy LEENDERSHasselt in Flanders (Belgium)Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundialswww.wijzerweb.be Op 1-jul-2010, om 22:39 heeft John Schilke het volgende geschreven:On 2010 July 1, at 10:12, John Goodman wrote: I'm looking for a simple formula which calculates the number of hours that the sun will be above the horizon on the summer solstice for any given latitude. I don't need to worry about refraction, or take into account the sun's diameter. I'm just interested in the simple geometric case, using the center of the sun's disk for determining the start and end times. For my purposes, these simple relationships will be true: If the answer for summer solstice hours is SSH, then winter solstice hours will be 24 - SSH, and equinox hours will be 12, regardless of the latitude.John,It would seem simplest to use the old formula cos T = – tan φ tan δ (latitude and declination, respectively)then, H (hours above the horizon) = 2 arc cos T, approximately.That is, in fact, how I usually do it, quickly and easily.Your other statements are correct.Best wishes,John ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial--- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Stainless Steel Spheres
What a pity that the balls have a mirror finish. On a mirror you cannot see a shadow. Willy LEENDERS Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website on the sundials in the province of Limburg in Flanders (Belgium) and on worthwhile facts about sundials www.wijzerweb.be Op 11-aug-2010, om 14:26 heeft Mike Cowham het volgende geschreven: > Dear Dialling Friends, > I have just visited our local garden centre and they had a large quantity of > 'Gazing Balls' on sale. These are 8" / 20cm diameter stainless steel spheres > with no obvious seams or stalks, and with a mirror finish. They MUST be of > use to many of you for dialling, for making globes or for ? > They are made by Gardman and they were selling two for £9.99, quite a > bargain. > If any of you have ideas how these can be used in dialling, I will be pleased > to hear from you. > If you make something from them, I am sure that we would all like to hear. > > Have fun, > Mike Cowham. > > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
sundial complex in Madrid
Can anyone explain the sundials on the left and right corner columns on the sundial complex with image address below. The sundials consist of intersecting curves. The sundial complex stands in Madrid (Spain). http://www.flickr.com/photos/leokoolhoven/3973477239/sizes/o/in/photostream/ Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: "Digital" Analemmic sundial?
Chris, Two remarks and a question: 1. Remark 1 A sundial is not an analemmatic sundial because it contains an analemma (an 8-shaped curve) indicating the relationship between date (declination of the sun) and EOT. An analemmatic sundial consists usually of a horizontal dial face with an elliptic perimeter, on which the hour points are located. The major axis of the ellipse runs east-west. A date line is set along the minor (north-south) axis. A vertical gnomon is placed on the correct date. The time is read from the point where the shadow (or its extension) intersects with the ellipse. Its name is a word derived from the Greek 'ana lemma'. That means 'view from above'. The analemmatic sundial is a view from above or projection of an equatorial sundial. 2. Remark 2 The name 'Digital' is misleading It only means here that the time is shown in figures such as a digital clock. 3. The question Can the sundial also indicate the real local time (solar time)? If not then this is a missed opportunity. The sundial then indicates what you already can see on your watch. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 10-nov-2010, om 21:28 heeft Chris Dobbie het volgende geschreven: > Just in the last week I’ve become fascinated with sundials and decided to > join this mailing list. This is my first post here and with that said I’d > like to say hello to all members and ask that you forgive my noobish > questions. > > I saw a “digital” equatorial sundial for the first time the other day and > fell in love with its simple design, just a band of metal bolted to a rock. I > soon realized that its simplicity came with a cost to functionality. I’ve > since come up with a far less simple design that I think solves most > functionality problems including equation of time and the inability of use > between 6 pm and 6 am. > > You can’t really tell from the model but I envision the equatorial ring being > able to rotate 360 degrees with markers along its track for longitude and DST > correction as well as current times for other cities around the world. One > could also make it universal by marking it in degrees and making the base > adjustable. If build large scale, minute lines could be added to the analemma. > > I’ve only recently started researching sundials and the math of the analemma > is still confusing me so I have a couple questions. I imagine if I > calculated out the amalemma and checked the time at noon this dial would be > fairly accurate but how accurate would it be at dawn and dusk? Would the > angels of the analemme change? Also, would rotating the equatorial ring > affect accuracy? If the dial does work and the amalemma and dial were marked > in smaller increments, how accurate do you think it would be? > > Lastly, I’m wondering if you have ever seen this style of dial before in > design or finished form? I have yet to come across one and would love to see > any pictures or info that’s out there. Thank you so very much for any and all > you can share with me. > > Cheers, > > Chris > > > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Egypt
"Ancient Egyptian Astronomy: timekeeping and cosmography in the New Kingdom"- 1999 by Sarah Symons is a remarkable doctoral thesis. In contributions on the history of sundials the L-shaped sundial from Egypt dating from 1500 BC. is mentioned as the earliest known sundial. Usually the operation of the sundial is described as follows: When the long stem with 5 variably spaced marks was oriented east and west in the morning, an elevated crossbar on the east end cast a moving shadow over the marks. At noon, the device was turned in the opposite direction to measure the afternoon "hours." The elevation of the cross bar varies with the season. Time measurement is done in seasonal hours. This description is based on a theory of the German Egyptologist Borchart in 1920 and the Dutch mathematician Bruins in 1965. Sarah Symons rejects in her doctoral thesis this theory and description. - the device was not oriented east and west but pointed to the sun - there was no cross bar added to the device and there was no variable elevation - time measurement was not done in seasonal hours. The simple ratios between the markings on the scale suggest a convenient 'rule' for making a clock. Her detailed arguments are based on both the mathematics of gnomonics and thorough knowledge of Egyptology and textual sources.. If she is right, and it looks, we need to rewrite the history of the sundial. Thank you Gianni to draw our attention to this publication. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 13-nov-2010, om 20:40 heeft Gianni Ferrari het volgende geschreven: > In the website > https://lra.le.ac.uk/handle/2381/8546 > there is the doctoral thesis by Sarah Symons entitled > "Ancient Egyptian Astronomy: timekeeping and cosmography in the New Kingdom"- > 1999, pages. 230 > It is very complete! > > In the thesis also the old Egyptians sundials and the seasonal hours are > discussed, with tables, graphs, formulas, etc. (page 128-151) > > Regards > Gianni Ferrari > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: What can be calculated with a sun dial?
On a sundial shaped for that purpose, you can read where in the earth, the sun at that moment, is in the zenith. See on my website the sundial in Maaseik in Flanders (Belgium): http://www.wijzerweb.be/maaseik002A.html Click on the little pictures to enlarge them. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 16-nov-2010, om 22:38 heeft Jos Kint het volgende geschreven: > Dear sun dialists, > > What can be calculated with a good sun dial? Here is a list of 19 topics. Can > you add some more items? > 1. The hour of the day > 2. The day of the year. > 3. The solar altitude. > 4. The solar azimuth. > 5. The longitude of the sun dial. > 6. The latitude of the sun dial. > 7. The moment of the equinoxes > 8. The moment of the solstices. > 9. The length of the tropical year > 10. The equation of time > 11. The excentricity of the earth orbital around the sun. > 12. The obliquity of the eclips > 13. A compass function > 14. The declination of the sun. > 15. The moment of the perihelion > 16. The moment of the aphelion > 17. The moment of the next sun set > 18. The Babylonic time > 19. The Italian time > > > Jos Kint > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Owls and sundials
If we're going yet the ridiculous tour, 'sundial' in Dutch is 'zonnewijzer'
'wijzer' is the comparative of 'wijs' (wise in English)
and the owl is a symbol for wisdom.
Willy Leenders
Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium)
Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with
a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch):
http://www.wijzerweb.be
Op 19-nov-2010, om 17:16 heeft Wolfgang R. Dick het volgende geschreven:
> John,
>
> There may be another connection - between humor and owls, since this was
> a humor journal. In Germany the accociation between humor and owls
> come from "Till Eulenspiegel" ("Till Owlmirror", in English literature
> known as "Owlglass", see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till_Eulenspiegel).
> Perhaps the former editor had this in mind, and because the journal
> was called The Sundial, there was the connection between sundials and
> owls. Just a guess.
>
> Best,
> Wolfgang
>
> Original-Nachricht
> Datum: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:43:02 -0700
> Von: "John Carmichael"
> An: "\'Sundial Mailing List\'"
> Betreff: FW: Sundial Information
>
> Hi Dialists:
>
> I received this intriguing letter from Ohio State University. The writer
> talks about an old publication called "The Sundial". And then asked me if I
> am aware of any relationship between sundials and owls! I am not aware of
> any association between the two. I asked him to send me any photos of this.
> Meanwhile, I'm asking you guys if you have seen any relationship between
> owls and sundials.
>
> Thanks!
>
> I'll forward your answers to him, or you can write him directly.
>
> John
>
>
> From: Nathan Varrone [mailto:nathanvarr...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 1:20 AM
> To: jlcarmich...@comcast.net
> Subject: Sundial Information
>
>
> Dear John Carmichael,
>
> I am currently reviving a humor magazine titled The Sundial at The Ohio
> State University. In old issues of The Sundial, I often see an owl on top of
> the drawn images of sundials. Is there any association with owls and
> sundials that you would know of?
>
> Thanks so much for your time, we may do business with you in the future!
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Nathan L. Varrone
> The Ohio State University
> Associate Director, 8th Floor Improv
> President, The Sundial
>
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Sundial Information
Frank, I do not know if your comment was meant to be funny or serious. In every way a Dutch lesson: 'wijzer' has two meanings: 1. 'indicator' or 'hand' (of a clock) 2. comparative of 'wijs' (wise - wiser) In my reply I used the second meaning to ridicule the relation between sundial and owl In the word 'zonnewijzer' (sundial) the first meaning applies. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 20-nov-2010, om 10:18 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven: > Dear John (and Willy, Aleks, Wolfgang, et al), > > I have greatly enjoyed the all the answers > to your question about Owls and Sundials... > > Willy Leenders tells us that the Dutch word > zonnewijzer really means "wiser sun". How > many of us knew that? > > Aleks has sent us a nice illustration of a > sundial with a carved owl on the side with > the caption "Greek Sundial". > > Wolfgang Dick referred us to the German > trickster Till Eulenspiegel. > > I have been waiting for someone to remind us > of the German translation of "carrying coals to > Newcastle" which is "Eulen nach Athen tragen". > This, literally, is "to bear owls to Athens". > > In recent times Germans have, instead, been > shipping Euros to Athens (by the shed load). > Maybe it would be wiser to send some Owls? > > For reasons I don't understand, Greece seems > to have surprisingly few sundials given the > plethora of sundials there in classical times. > > I suggest that the Greeks should be sent a > bulk shipment of sundials Made in Germany > to the same specification as Aleks's sundial. > > The locals can then ponder the owl, and wonder > about their lost sundial heritage and even > their lost Euros. > > All the best > > Frank > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
BSS bulletin copy of article
Preparing an article for the bulletin of 'Zonnewijzerkring Vlaanderen' (The Flemmish Sundial Society) I am in search of a copy of Sarah Syman, Shadow Clocks and Sloping Sundials of the Egyptian New Kingdom and Late Period: Usage, Development and Structure, The British Sundial Society Bulletin 98.3 (1998), 30-36 Who sent me that copy? Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Information needed
Frank describes what can be seen on my website on page http://www.wijzerweb.be/maaseik002A.html The text is in Dutch but the images speak for themselves. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 3-dec-2010, om 11:25 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven: > Dear triplederby100 > > Some subscribers to this list have more > curious names than others :-) > >> I hope this is the right forum to post >> this question. > > Yes, we answer any questions to do with > beams of sunlight :-) > >> ...a friend of mine visited a European >> country where he visited a building... >> a beam of sunlight strikes a particular >> spot inside the building only once in a >> year, and only at a particular time of >> the day. > > You will hear many stories like this but > a little explanation is required before > you should believe what you hear... > >> I am hoping the experts here can explain >> how this is made possible - since I am >> not an expert at all in the sun related >> mathematics. > > You don't need to know any mathematics for > a simple explanation... > > Imagine staring at the sun (a bad idea) > all day from sunrise to sunset and doing > this every day for a year. > > You will see that it traces a path across > the sky and that this path is high in > summer and low in winter. > > Now imagine tracking the sun with a > telescope (an even worse idea unless > you have high-tech eye protection). > > You will see the same thing. You have > to swing the telescope round during the > course of the day to keep it tracking > the sun and you will have to point it > up and down too. > > Then, on some special date at some special > moment, you CLAMP the telescope so that > it permanently points at where the sun > was at that special moment. > > Given that the sun follows a different > path each day, you won't be able to see > the sun through the telescope again > until the sun is in the same position > as it was at that special moment. > > It would be nice to say that you would > have to wait a whole year, and then the > sun would be in the same position at > the same time of day and, for a fleeting > moment, you could see it again through > the telescope. > > This isn't quite the whole story because > if the telescope isn't too high-powered > you will probably see the sun for a short > period at (about) the same time for a few > days either side of the chosen date. > > Moreover, there will almost certainly be > a quite different date when the sun's > path is approximately the same as it is > on the magic date. > > Now, you don't need a telescope at all. > A fixed tube will do, or a collection of > bits of stonework and church furniture > and other things that happen to leave a > narrow gap that you could draw a straight > line through. > > These things are usually a disappointment. > Either, at the critical moment on the > critical day, the sun isn't shining or > on a quite different day the sun happens > to be in the correct direction and spoils > the story. > > Frank King > Cambridge, U.K. > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
The oldest known sundial
On 2010.11.14 I wrote in a massage to this list: "We need to rewrite the history of the L-shaped sundial from Egypt dating from 1500 BC., mentioned as the oldest known sundial." Now I did it on my website. There is an English version available on http://www.wijzerweb.be/egypteengels.html Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be/begin%28english%29.html --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: longitude correction
Make no effort, Donald. Let your sundial be a sundial. The longitude correction turns your sundial to a watch. But you've already a watch. Solar time - you do'nt have it - can only be given by your uncorrected sundial. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 9-feb-2011, om 22:49 heeft Donald Christensen het volgende geschreven: > How do I design a longitude correction in my sundial? > > Correct me if I'm wrong > > My horizontal dial is for Brisbane. The longitude is 153 deg and the standard > meridian is 150. This is a 3 deg difference. > > I'll then rotate the hour lines by 3 deg to compensate > > > > -- > Cheers > Donald > 0423 102 090 > > > This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended > recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. Un-authorized use > of this email is subject to penalty of law. > So there! > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: part 2 of longitude correction
John, The main argument for an uncorrected time on a sundial, anywhere in the world, is that the correction removes an information that only a sundial can give, namely solar time. How about an astronomer who corrects his device indicating sidereal time to transform it in a clock time indicating device? The opinion of non-dialists should not affect us. It is our job to inform them about the difference between solar time and clock time. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 13-feb-2011, om 18:28 heeft John Carmichael het volgende geschreven: > My friend, Jim Tallman and I have had many discussions about longitude > corrected dials. I know that many of the Western European dialists don’t > like longitude corrected dials- especially the British dialists. I can see > why they feel this way. Their three biggest arguments against longitude > corrected dials are these: 1) They aren’t traditional, 2) They aren’t > symmetrical, 3) They are so close to their Prime Meridian that the longitude > correction is quite small and almost insignificant. > > But there are equally good arguments for longitude corrected dials! > > In The United States, and many other places, the sundial may be located far > away from the Prime Meridian at the edge of a Time Zone. In a perfect World, > a Time Zone would only span 15 degrees. But most of our Time Zones have > wiggly irregular boundries that sometimes span distances far greater than 15 > degrees. Russia is an extreme example of this! There are parts of Russia > that are missing entire zones! Then there’s China. The entire country only > has one Time Zone! > > See: http://www.travel.com.hk/region/timezone.htm > > For places like these, a well-built traditional Solar Time sundial will give > a time reading that can be more than an hour off of Watch Time (Standard Mean > Time). A casual non-dialist would say that these sundials don’t work, > especially if there is no Equation of Time graph available with built-in > longitude correction! Correcting a dial for longitude solves this problem. > For this reason, I think longitude corrected dials are more user-friendly. > This is why Jim and I routinely make our dials with longitude correction. > > That’s my two cents worth. > > John Carmichael > > > > From: Jack Aubert [mailto:jaub...@cpcug.org] > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 9:14 AM > To: 'John Carmichael'; 'Donald Christensen'; sundial@uni-koeln.de > Subject: RE: part 2 of longitude correction > > This has all been very instructive. I am not a complete beginner, but have > to confess that I was under the impression that rotating the dial plate with > respect to the fixed gnomon was sufficient. Somebody once told me I could do > this and I never really thought about it. If you actually think about the > longitude correction, it does become obvious that just rotating the dial > plate is not going to be right. > > For any dials I have made, I either used one of the programs like Shadows Pro > or Orologi Solari to include a longitude correction, or more frequently, > now, I use a delta cad macro and keep uncorrected solar time. I agree with > Willy Leenders that sundials should tell solar time. I have a watch that > can tell me mean time, but it has ceded to my celphone which is even better. > > > Thanks for the question and thanks for the good answers. I keep learning > things here, many of which I should already know but somehow missed. > > Jack > > > From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On > Behalf Of John Carmichael > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 6:46 PM > To: 'Donald Christensen'; sundial@uni-koeln.de > Subject: RE: part 2 of longitude correction > > (I hit the wrong button in my last email and it went out without my letter- > sorry!) > > Hi Donald: > > I understand your question, because I had this same question years ago when I > was a beginner. > > The answer is no. > > To re-phrase your question so that everybody understands it, you are asking > this- When drawing a sundial face, should you simply rotate the normal solar > time hour lines about their center of origin by 3 degrees to obtain a > longitude corrected face? > > No, you can not do this. Each hour line has to be calculated and drawn > individually. This is a common error some beginning dialists make when > designing longitude corrected dials. I almost made this mistake too once! > &
Re: part 2 of longitude correction
John, The difference in opinion between us arises from the other position we occupy. I use a sundial to help people learn. You use a sundial to make money with it. And both are honorable motives. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 13-feb-2011, om 19:47 heeft John Carmichael het volgende geschreven: > Hi Willy: > > Of course you are right that only a Solar Time dial can give Solar Time. > > But I must respectfully disagree with this comment: > The opinion of non-dialists should not affect us. > > Almost all of my customers are non-dialists. They are not astronomers. > (except for a few planetariums and schools). All my clients want to be able > to glance at their sundial and know what time it is. Most of them could care > less about Solar Time. We have a saying here: “The customer is always > right”. So I give them what they want. But I do ask them before I build > their sundials what kind of time they want. I also offer Daylight Saving > dials. In all my years of making sundials, I have never had a single > customer who requested a Solar Time dial. If I ever do get a client who > wants a Soilar Time dial I would give them what they want. I offer them, but > they NEVER want one! > > It is my job to give my customers what they want. I do however give them an > Owners Manual that explains Solar Time for those of them that are interested > in astronomy. > > Respectfully, > > John > > > From: Willy Leenders [mailto:willy.leend...@pandora.be] > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 11:24 AM > To: John Carmichael > Cc: sundial@uni-koeln.de > Subject: Re: part 2 of longitude correction > > John, > > The main argument for an uncorrected time on a sundial, anywhere in the > world, is that the correction removes an information that only a sundial can > give, namely solar time. > How about an astronomer who corrects his device indicating sidereal time to > transform it in a clock time indicating device? > The opinion of non-dialists should not affect us. > It is our job to inform them about the difference between solar time and > clock time. > > Willy Leenders > Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) > > Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) > with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): > http://www.wijzerweb.be > > > > > > > > Op 13-feb-2011, om 18:28 heeft John Carmichael het volgende geschreven: > > > My friend, Jim Tallman and I have had many discussions about longitude > corrected dials. I know that many of the Western European dialists don’t > like longitude corrected dials- especially the British dialists. I can see > why they feel this way. Their three biggest arguments against longitude > corrected dials are these: 1) They aren’t traditional, 2) They aren’t > symmetrical, 3) They are so close to their Prime Meridian that the longitude > correction is quite small and almost insignificant. > > But there are equally good arguments for longitude corrected dials! > > In The United States, and many other places, the sundial may be located far > away from the Prime Meridian at the edge of a Time Zone. In a perfect World, > a Time Zone would only span 15 degrees. But most of our Time Zones have > wiggly irregular boundries that sometimes span distances far greater than 15 > degrees. Russia is an extreme example of this! There are parts of Russia > that are missing entire zones! Then there’s China. The entire country only > has one Time Zone! > > See: http://www.travel.com.hk/region/timezone.htm > > For places like these, a well-built traditional Solar Time sundial will give > a time reading that can be more than an hour off of Watch Time (Standard Mean > Time). A casual non-dialist would say that these sundials don’t work, > especially if there is no Equation of Time graph available with built-in > longitude correction! Correcting a dial for longitude solves this problem. > For this reason, I think longitude corrected dials are more user-friendly. > This is why Jim and I routinely make our dials with longitude correction. > > That’s my two cents worth. > > John Carmichael > > > > From: Jack Aubert [mailto:jaub...@cpcug.org] > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 9:14 AM > To: 'John Carmichael'; 'Donald Christensen'; sundial@uni-koeln.de > Subject: RE: part 2 of longitude correction > > This has all been very instructive. I am not a complete be
A blunder on the astronomical clock in Prague
There is an interesting difference in the construction of a sundial and an astronomical clock. On a sundial, you can change the solar time indication to a time zone indication. This is not my preference. But you can do it. If the sundial also has lines for unequal hours or Italian or Babylonian hour lines, they should not be changed. That is different on an astronomical clock. This produced an annoying blunder on the famous astronomical clock in Prague. To please the tourists who assemble there, the clock indicates now Central European Time rather than solar time as it once was, The indication of unequal hours and Bohemian (Italian) hours now gains about a quarter in February and loses a quarter in the period of end October and begin November. On this once so accurately crafted clock ! The tourists don't worry about it. Most of them are only interested in the puppet show of the apostles in the hourly opened shutters. See more on the Prague clock on my website at http://www.wijzerweb.be/prague.html Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: A blunder on the astronomical clock in Prague
Hallo Roger, Don't throw out the child with the bathwater In the construction and working of the clock in Prague, there is nothing that would not be justified astronomatically, but the recent blunder that we both regret. You can name the zodiac signs astrological, but they belong to the part of astrology that is common in astronomy and astrology. About the other part, the interpretation of the position of the sun, the moon and the planets, to descript a personality or to predict, you find nothing in the clock of Prague. When I say that I was born with the sun in the sign of Taurus (in the ordinary intercourse: "my sign is Taurus"), this is time keeping and defining the position of the sun on that moment: between 30° and 60° in the zodiac. That's astronomy. And do not forget that the signs of the zodiac and constellations of stars, both astronomical terms, are something completely different. Although they share common names. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 27-feb-2011, om 05:20 heeft Roger Bailey het volgende geschreven: > Hello Willy, > > When I stood in the square analyzing the famous astronomical clock, I was > struck by how it followed sundial time concepts. It led; it did not follow > clock conventions. I am disappointed to note that this is no longer true. As > you report, It tells clock time. I am also disappointed that I was perhaps > the only tourist in the square who understood the details of the clock, the > meaning of all the lines and circles within circles. I am further > disappointed that this clock, like so many advances in astronomy was > sponsored by interests in astrology, casting horoscopes! > > What's your sign dude? I don't know. I refuse to know nonsense. > > Regard, Roger Bailey > > From: Willy Leenders > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 12:28 PM > To: Sundial sundiallist > Subject: A blunder on the astronomical clock in Prague > > There is an interesting difference in the construction of a sundial and an > astronomical clock. > On a sundial, you can change the solar time indication to a time zone > indication. > This is not my preference. But you can do it. > If the sundial also has lines for unequal hours or Italian or Babylonian hour > lines, they should not be changed. > > That is different on an astronomical clock. > This produced an annoying blunder on the famous astronomical clock in Prague. > To please the tourists who assemble there, the clock indicates now Central > European Time rather than solar time as it once was, > The indication of unequal hours and Bohemian (Italian) hours now gains about > a quarter in February and loses a quarter in the period of end October and > begin November. > On this once so accurately crafted clock ! > > The tourists don't worry about it. > Most of them are only interested in the puppet show of the apostles in the > hourly opened shutters. > > See more on the Prague clock on my website at > http://www.wijzerweb.be/prague.html > > Willy Leenders > Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) > > Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) > with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): > http://www.wijzerweb.be > > > > > > > > > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: A blunder on the astronomical clock in Prague
Frank, Geoff, Thank you for the comment and the appreciation concerning the page about the Prague clock on my website. It is very likely that the clock work is designed to indicate the mean solar time. In a source - I don't find it no more - I found that someone was charged with the task of fixing by hand the clock regularly on solar time with the help of a sundial. The clock work provided a good indication between two adjustments. This was especially necessary for a right indication of Bohemian and unequal hours. Measurement of Bohemian and Unequal hours depends on the time of sunrise and sunset. They are symmetrical in relation to real noon and asymmetrical in relation to noon in mean solar time. Since the symmetrical layout of the indication of this hours on the Prague clock a correct reading can only with the clock set to true solar time. I found the name of the astronomer in charge of the scientific maintenance of the Prague clock on this moment. I asked him for clarification and wait for his answer. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 28-feb-2011, om 12:32 heeft The Thurstons het volgende geschreven: > Willy, > > Thank you for starting this interesting discussion and for directing us to > your website with its marvellous coverage of the Prague clock. It prompted me > to consult Henry King's book entitled "Geared to the Stars" which deals among > other things with astronomical clocks. He seems to have thoroughly > investigated the mechanism of the Prague clock and here is what he wrote in > 1978 about the clockwork as it was in 1865: > > "The horizontal input arbor ended in a long lantern pinion of 24 teeth. This > rotated 15.25 times in 24 hours and meshed with three concentric wheels 1.14m > in diameter and provided with 365 teeth(zodiac), 366(sun) and 379(moon). In > 24 mean solar hours, 24x61/4 or 366 teeth of the pinion rotated the sun-wheel > once while the zodiac-wheel advanced one tooth and the moon wheel slipped > back 13 teeth." > > He continues as follows: > > "The three large concentric wheels...still form part of the dialwork, > but they are no longer turned by a simple pinion and the moon-wheel has a > correcting mechanism added by Boehm in 1865." > > This suggests to me that the original clockwork turned the sun-wheel at a > regular rate to match the mean sun and there is no record of a subsequent > equation of time modification since I find it hard to believe that such a > modification would have escaped the notice of Henry King. This evidence makes > me think that Frank King is correct in his guess. > > Geoff Thurston > From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On > Behalf Of Frank King > Sent: 28 February 2011 07:54 > To: Willy Leenders > Cc: Sundial sundiallist > Subject: Re: A blunder on the astronomical clock in Prague > > Dear Willy, > > I am not very familiar with the Prague > clock and I am confused by the recent > messages. You say: > > ... the clock indicates now Central > European Time rather than solar time > as it once was... > > This suggests something far more radical > than simply setting the clock for the > wrong longitude to keep the tourists happy. > > If I interpret you literally, you seem to > be saying two conflicting things about > the mechanism at the heart of the clock: > > NOW: the clock indicates Central > European Time - this suggests > exactly 24 common hours each day > (albeit set for the wrong longitude). > > IN FORMER TIMES: the clock indicated > local sun time - this suggests that > there were NOT exactly 24 common hours > each day because sun time is not quite > in step with common hours. > > QUESTION > > Did the clock really indicate local sun > time before it was adapted to keep tourists > happy? > > If the answer is yes, that means the clock > mechanism used to take account of the Equation > of Time AND that this mechanism has now been > disconnected. Can this be true? > > My guess is that the clock used to indicate > local MEAN sun time but I should like to have > that guess confirmed or rejected! > > Frank H. King > Cambridge, UK > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3471 - Release Date: 02/27/11 > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Prague Clock
Jim, What you describe so carefully is illustrated at the early mentionned page on my website at http://www.wijzerweb.be/prague.html Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Op 28-feb-2011, om 18:15 heeft James E. Morrison het volgende geschreven: > Perhaps some background would be useful to those on the list who are not > familiar with astrolabes and astrolabe clocks. > > The Prague clock is based on an astrolabe with the projection origin at the > north celestial pole. This orientation causes the horizon arc to arc in the > reverse direction from a normal astrolabe, but it gives a more intuitive > representation of the Sun's position. > > The clock has three moving parts. A hand with a Sun figure rotates once in a > mean solar day and the Sun's longitude is indicated by the position of the > Sun figure on the ecliptic (which is divided by the zodiac). The astrolabe > rete, which has only the projection of the ecliptic on the clock, rotates > once in a sidereal day. The difference in the rate of the two components > keeps the Sun figure on the (approximately) correct position on the ecliptic. > The third hand shows the position and phase of the Moon. > > The Prague clock, and all other devices based on the astrolabe, indicates > apparent time with the Sun hand. The only adjustment needed for it to > indicate approximate civil time would be to simply move the Sun hand to a > time. No changes in gearing are needed. But the Sun's position in the > ecliptic (zodiac) would no longer be correct and any events (sunrise/set, > culmination, etc.) would no longer be valid. That is, the Sun figure no > longer represents the real Sun, > > It could be made to show apparent time again by simply moving the Sun hand. > > Best regards, > > Jim > > James E. Morrison > janus.astrol...@verizon.net > Astrolabe web site at http://astrolabes.org > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Prague Clock
Andrew, Your information and suggestions are very valuable. They show that, if the clock is set to local solar time, all the other indications are correct. Therefore now the clock has a perfect mechanism for - the movement of the pointer, - the movement of the little sun on the pointer, - the movement of the disk with the zodiac, - the movement of the ring with the Bohemian hours. And the clock has a correct layout of hour lines for unequal hours, hour points and datelines. It is even more regrettable that all this perfection is put aside by the clock setting to CET. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 1-mrt-2011, om 13:17 heeft Andrew James het volgende geschreven: > -Original Message- > Frank King wrote: > > ... Or have I missed something crucial? > > [It is still a splendid clock, but I want to > be clear about its design limitations!] > > -- > > I think we must remember that the timekeeping mechanism driving the > astronomical or astrolabic gearing of the Prague clock is mid 19th > century (and it is itself very interesting - I was privileged to visit > the "insides" of the clock some years ago). By that time, a clock > mechanism kept pretty accurate mean time, so that, once regulated, its > accumulated error from mean time would not be noticeable for many days, > especially on a 24-hour dial. > > However its original predecessor(s) - 1410 and later - would have been > very poor at public timekeeping by our standards, with random errors of > the order of several minutes or tens of minutes per day. Hence it would > need regular correction; and the only instrument conveniently telling > the true time to which to correct it was a sundial. So it > *automatically* would be regulated to - and keep - (local) solar time > without any need to compute the equation of time - which although known > about by scholars was then not even tabulated as we know it. > > Sir George White gave a most interesting lecture a few years ago > expounding the proposition that the English lantern clock in the early > 17th century - a very poor timekeeper by modern standards - was in fact > excellently suited to keeping practical time from day to day (and > overnight), which anyway needed to be adjusted to stay in line with > local solar time, as that was then the only standard. > > Fortuitously the time zone GMT+1 is fairly close to local mean time for > the Prague clock as it is at 14d 25m East - so the discrepancy is about > 2 minutes 19 seconds. It would be far worse off in Seville! > > So I suggest that: > > - originally the Prague clock certainly kept local solar time, being > frequently adjusted (corrected) to that from its own (very) approximate > timekeeping: > > - when the local time standard become mean rather than solar it would > have still been frequently adjusted of necessity, but I do not myself > know whether to mean or solar time, nor do I know when mean time was > adopted in Prague: > > - after the mid-19th century work it would naturally keep mean time > quite well but could have been adjusted to local solar time if desired: > > - after the adoption of time zones it may or may not have been adjusted > to civil time: > > - and now it is adjusted to CET (UTC+1). > > I suspect the convenience and motivation for keeping civil time is > mostly so that tourists know when to expect the automata to perform, > rather than because viewers will use it to set their watches. > > Andrew James > > > > Secure Meters (UK) Ltd. is a registered company in England: 2199653 > Secure House, Moorside Road, Winchester, SO23 7RX > > This correspondence is confidential and solely for the intended recipient(s). > If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, > distribute or retain this message or any part of it. If you are not the > intended recipient please delete this correspondence from your system and > notify the sender immediately. > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Geneva sundials
David, I send you in a separate e-mail a copy of the pages from the catalog of sundials in Germany and Swistzerland concerning the sundials in Geneva Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 8-mrt-2011, om 10:46 heeft da...@davidbrownsundials.com het volgende geschreven: > Dear All, > > Can anyone direct me to some on-line illustrations and locations of > sundials in the Geneva region? > Thank you in anticipation of your help. > Yours sincerely, > David M Brown > Somerton, Somerset, UK > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Moscow sundial?
As Roger already noted, most of the people stood on the label of the month, rather than on the point on the centerline to which the label referred. Who knows a means by which visitors to a analemmatic sundial stand intuitively in the right place ? An instruction on a information panel doesn't work. I try it to place the labels of the month at a distance away from a separate meridian line. see http://www.wijzerweb.be/hasselt010A.html Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 10-mrt-2011, om 00:13 heeft Roger W. Sinnott het volgende geschreven: > Hi Reinhold, > > Yes, that’s it!! Many thanks. > > When it was first posted, I remember a comment by someone on this list: > Most of the people stood on the label of the month, rather than on the point > on the centerline to which the label referred. (I’m not sure what point the > pigeons went to.) > > Roger > > Direct link: http://www.youtube.com/user/AleksandrBoldyrev?gl=RU&hl=ru > > > From: Reinhold Kriegler [mailto:reinhold.krieg...@gmx.de] > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:47 PM > To: 'Roger W. Sinnott'; 'Sundial List' > Subject: AW: Moscow sundial? > > > Dear Roger, > > it might well be you are looking for the very beautiful sundial-YouTube-film > which you can easily find within this link: > > http://www.ta-dip.de/sonnenuhren/sonnenuhren-von-freunden/r-u-s-s-l-a-n-d/aleksandr-w-boldyrev.html > > Have a look! > The beautiful young Russian women enjoy this sundial, made by Aleksandr W > Boldyrev as well as the pigeons and the little children… and some men! > Enjoy! > > Best regards! > Reinhold Kriegler > > > * ** *** * ** *** > > Reinhold R. Kriegler > > Lat. 53° 6' 52,6" Nord; Long. 8° 53' 52,3 Ost; 48 m ü. N.N. GMT +1 (DST +2) > www.ta-dip.de > > http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=XyCoJHwzzjU&fmt=18 > > http://www.ta-dip.de/dies-und-das/r-e-i-n-h-o-l-d.html > > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] Im > Auftrag von Roger W. Sinnott > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. März 2011 22:44 > An: 'Sundial List' > Betreff: Moscow sundial? > > All, > > I am trying to find a YouTube video that was linked to from this list > several years ago. > > It shows a large analemmatic sundial located in a public park in Moscow (I > think). Various passersby tried to figure out how it worked, where to > stand, etc., and it was pretty funny. This could not have been before 2005, > the year YouTube started. > > Anyone have the link? > > Roger > > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Moscow sundial?
Dear all, Frans is so kind to show my solution in answer to my own question. But it does not work also, as I have observed in the meantime. The instruction "stand on the date" is not enough. Perhaps the instruction must be: "stand on the date with the midline between your feet" And yet I have my doubts. Maybe this helps: a bathroom weighting scale on a rail along the midline and the instruction on the scale, "slide the scale until the date and read your weight and time" This suggestion is just to initiate a brainstorming session. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 11-mrt-2011, om 22:11 heeft Frans W. Maes het volgende geschreven: > Dear all, > > Willy is right in noting that instructions on information panels don't work. > I very much like the footprints. I think they are effective, with or without > explanatory text. From left to right in the attached composite picture (in > black & white; the color version, at 39 kB, did not pass the medieval-sized > size filter): Riverwalk, Augusta (Georgia); Hasselt (Belgium), designed by > Willy Leenders (2000); Culemborg (Netherlands), my design (2009). > > Best regards, > Frans > > On 11-3-2011 16:24, John Carmichael wrote: >> Some human analemmatics have footprints indicating where people should >> stand. > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: bad sundials
Brent, In my province, where I know about all sundials the biggest blunder in terms of time difference between the indicated time and the actual time, is an equatorial sundial with the hour digits in reverse order. He may be right in the southern hemisphere. See http://www.wijzerweb.be/neerpelt001A.html Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 12-mrt-2011, om 20:39 heeft Brent het volgende geschreven: > Hello again; > > I hope I am not trying your patience with my endless questions. > > Today I am thinking about all of the mistakes that I have made in my thinking > about sundial designs. The motions between the sun and earth are more > complicated than I first thought. > > I wonder if lots of people make sundial mistakes? > I wonder if there are lots of sundials around that contain mistakes? > I wonder if there are any famous sundial blunders? > > thanks again; > brent > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: bad sundials
For most errors on sundials there is an explanation. Sometimes the cause is a mystery. As for the special sundial in Company's Garden in Cape Town (South Africa) see http://www.wijzerweb.be/kaapstad.html (note that in the southern hemisphere the sequence of hour numbers on a horizontal dial is counter clockwise) Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Op 12-mrt-2011, om 20:39 heeft Brent het volgende geschreven: > Hello again; > > I hope I am not trying your patience with my endless questions. > > Today I am thinking about all of the mistakes that I have made in my thinking > about sundial designs. The motions between the sun and earth are more > complicated than I first thought. > > I wonder if lots of people make sundial mistakes? > I wonder if there are lots of sundials around that contain mistakes? > I wonder if there are any famous sundial blunders? > > thanks again; > brent > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
the end of my quest concerning the clock of Prague
My quest for the state of the clock of Prague has given a result. The clock would have to indicate the local solar time as before. To please the tourists who assemble there, the clock indicates Central European Time. It was originally set to mean solar time and from time tot time it was manually adjusted to correct the Equation of Time. The watch maker of the clock on this moment, Petr Skala, describes its history as follows: In 1912, it was set to indicate Central European Time (C.E.T.) In 1957, the indication of the Bohemian time is adjusted accordingly. The hour lines of unequal hours are fixed and can not be adjusted. That indication is actually wrong. Because Prague (14 ° 25 'E) is near the 15-degree meridian line, the reference for Central European Time, the difference between C.E.T. and the local solar time is about two minutes. plus a correction equal to the Equation of Time. In February and early November, the total difference is on its maximum: about a quarter of an hour. Then the clock, respectively, gains about a quarter of an hour and is about a quarter of an hour slow with regard to local solar time. See more on my website: http://www.wijzerweb.be/prague.html Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: solar tracking sundial
Hello Brent, There is a very simple solar tracking sundial in my province, Limburg in Flanders (Belgium). It is siutated in the city of Maaseik. It has no sophisticated electro-mechanical tracking system. See on my website the page: http://www.wijzerweb.be/maaseik002A.html Translation of the Dutch text of the webpage. The pictures (click the thiumbnails to enlarge) alone are already clear. Maaseik Monastery Garden of the Canons Regular of the Order of the Holy Cross (Croisiers). Sphere sundial Year: 1953 Design: Anthony van Dooren, croisier-geography teacher Restoration 2003: Julien Lyssens, president Sundial Association of Flanders (Belgium) Motto: none Description The sundial has the look of a globe. Its axis is tilted to the north at an angle of about 51 ° (the latitude of Maaseik) with the horizontal plane. Meridian lines serve as hour lines. The meridian line of Maaseik is the 12-hour line. It is directed to the south. An accessory device has a hollow pipe and four supports. This device is placed so that the sun shines through the pipe and a spot of light cast on the sphere. The meridian that runs through the light spot indicates the hour. The spot indicates also the place on the world where at that time the sun was right above the head of the residents (the zenith). On the photo (taken on May 28, 2003) it is a few minutes after 16 hours (solar time in Maaseik). The sun is in the zenith in the Atlantic, northeast of the Caribbean. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 16-mrt-2011, om 21:50 heeft Brent het volgende geschreven: > Hello; > > I have an idea to build a mechanical sundial. > > It would have a moving gnomon that would track the sun. > > If the gnomon was a hollow pipe, a spot of light would > shine out of the bottom that could be used to indicate a > time and date. > > With all of the photo voltaic systems available now the > hardware is fairly easy to find. > > I'm thinking I could use a simple dual axis photo sensor > tracking device such as this: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Complete-Solar-Tracker-Sun-Tracker-Kit-/400187219850 > > Has anyone seen a sun dial like my idea before? > > I Googled solar tracker and they also talk about a > chronological tracker. That rotates one axis at the speed > of the earth but in the opposite direction. That would make > a fun sundial as well. > > Modern technology offers lots of new possibilities for > sundials. Is anyone trying new designs? > > thanks; > brent > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Perigee Equinox Moonrise
Roser, PERIGEE is the point in the orbit of the moon or a satellite at which it is nearest to the earth. The opposite of APOGEE. ORIGIN: fromGreek perigeion ‘close around the earth,’ from peri- ‘around’ + gē ‘earth.’ Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 20-mrt-2011, om 14:17 heeft Roser Raluy het volgende geschreven: > Yes I did see The Glorious Full Moon as I was returning from work, just > driving over the bridge something made me turn my head round and there it > was, big and bright golden yellow. > Later on the TV news in the Catalan television (TV3) there was the Weather > report. For Catalans the weather report takes about 10 minutes explanation > every time with lots of information as well as photographs of people that > send the Highlights" of the day. Evening news are about 21,30h and they > received more than 60 good photographs of that full moon, they show a few and > the rest can be viewed in Internet. The "weather man" also said that specific > day the moon was at the closest possible distance of the earth and that's why > we saw it so big. > One more thing, what does it mean Perigee, I search in the dictionary and > couldn't find it. > Happy equinox to every body, > Roser > > 2011/3/20 Roger Bailey > Did you see the perigee equinox full moon rise this evening? We walked down > to the nearby east facing shore to see it rise. The horizon was remarkably > clear and the rising moon was beautiful over the water, a large burnished > golden orb rising just after 8 pm. At the lunar perigee the moon is closest > to us so the moon looks bigger, a full 31'51" in diameter. Today was just > before the equinox, 20 March 23:21 UTC. The sun set due west and rises due > east. As this this full moon is just before the equinox, we have to wait a > month for Easter. > > The sun is not everything. We enjoyed the reflected glories of a perigee > equinox moonrise. > > Regards, Roger > > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Book of Time Sundial....
You are right, Marcelo. Even Ophiuchus (serpent bearer), a name that you cannot find in the zodiac, is depicted. For me, regularly guiding in the sundial park where the sundial is located, this is an additional difficulty. Explain simply all of a sundial to laymen if not easy. This unusual design makes it - unnecessary - more difficult. I think the designer is another example of 'know-alls' who consider the zodiac as a part of astrology which they detest. While lines for the first day of each zodiacal month are datelines based on astronomy. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 20-mrt-2011, om 17:36 heeft Marcelo het volgende geschreven: > Methinks that sundial depicts the constellations, and not the signs, as the > lines of solstices are markd by Scorpio/Sagitarius and Taurus/Gemini. It's > not common to see sundials constellation-oriented, with precession of > equinoxes taken in account. > > 2011/3/20 R Wall > HI all, > > I found this lovely “Book of Time sundial”: > > http://www.fransmaes.nl/genk/en/gk-x12-e.htm > > I’ve also found a stone book accessory from a monumental supplier here in > Australia. This looks as if it should be suitable for a book sundial. But as > the sundial will be out in the weather, and I want the sundial to last. What > stone should the book be made from? Also any ideas on how the inscription > should be done for it to last? > > Regards, > > Roderick Wall. > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Book of Time Sundial....
Another deficiency that marred the 'Book of Tme Sundial' in the sundial park of Genk is that one half of the datelines are usable only in the morning, the other half only in the afternoon. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 20-mrt-2011, om 18:44 heeft Willy Leenders het volgende geschreven: > You are right, Marcelo. > > Even Ophiuchus (serpent bearer), a name that you cannot find in the zodiac, > is depicted. > For me, regularly guiding in the sundial park where the sundial is located, > this is an additional difficulty. > Explain simply all of a sundial to laymen if not easy. > This unusual design makes it - unnecessary - more difficult. > > I think the designer is another example of 'know-alls' who consider the > zodiac as a part of astrology which they detest. > While lines for the first day of each zodiacal month are datelines based on > astronomy. > > Willy Leenders > Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) > > Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) > with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): > http://www.wijzerweb.be > > > > Op 20-mrt-2011, om 17:36 heeft Marcelo het volgende geschreven: > >> Methinks that sundial depicts the constellations, and not the signs, as the >> lines of solstices are markd by Scorpio/Sagitarius and Taurus/Gemini. It's >> not common to see sundials constellation-oriented, with precession of >> equinoxes taken in account. >> >> 2011/3/20 R Wall >> HI all, >> >> I found this lovely “Book of Time sundial”: >> >> http://www.fransmaes.nl/genk/en/gk-x12-e.htm >> >> I’ve also found a stone book accessory from a monumental supplier here in >> Australia. This looks as if it should be suitable for a book sundial. But as >> the sundial will be out in the weather, and I want the sundial to last. >> What stone should the book be made from? Also any ideas on how the >> inscription should be done for it to last? >> >> Regards, >> >> Roderick Wall. >> >> --- >> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> >> >> >> --- >> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
