Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Ray_Net]

Dustbin wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a
web form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP.
But is it HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


An interesting collection of answers though clearly many thought I
wanted to write the web page or I was defining the server behaviour.


No, I didn't think that. :-)


I was concerned for the security of my information being entered in a
web form and how readable it might be as it returns to the server.


In most cases, anything you enter in someone's web form will be secure.
It does depend on how the site handles it. If you're concerned about
"shopping carts" those should be done using https, because you are
probably typing your credit card and other personal info. They would be
stored on the site's database and not visible to anyone beyond the
server, other than the site's owner.


Of course, any plain text format would be readable but some protocols
are more likely to be targeted than others. E.g. I think SMTP is more
likely to have probes looking for useful info than message data being
sent back as HTML using HTTP.


You did ask specifically about the "mailto:"; protocol. A mailto does
not
involve the web server, and is strictly between your email client, your
sending ISP via SMTP, and the recipient's email services. This will be
as secure as those mail services can be - i.e. if your own computer is
not compromised nor is the recipient's.


That is what I was asking - about the protocal used to transmit. It is
not the issue of what happens on the server (that is down to the server
operator); it is down to whether it can be seen en-route. I am also
aware of https and 128 bit SSL. That was not the issue here - just the
transmission protocol which - being SMTP - is not very secure.



What protocol/security did you expect when sending mail with a
mail-client ?



The protocol I assume for standard email is SMTP and security is zero.



Did you have another solution ?
You send a mail ... How ?
Did you not use a mail-client ?

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Dustbin]

Ray_Net wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a
web form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP.
But is it HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


An interesting collection of answers though clearly many thought I
wanted to write the web page or I was defining the server behaviour.


No, I didn't think that. :-)


I was concerned for the security of my information being entered in a
web form and how readable it might be as it returns to the server.


In most cases, anything you enter in someone's web form will be secure.
It does depend on how the site handles it. If you're concerned about
"shopping carts" those should be done using https, because you are
probably typing your credit card and other personal info. They would be
stored on the site's database and not visible to anyone beyond the
server, other than the site's owner.


Of course, any plain text format would be readable but some protocols
are more likely to be targeted than others. E.g. I think SMTP is more
likely to have probes looking for useful info than message data being
sent back as HTML using HTTP.


You did ask specifically about the "mailto:"; protocol. A mailto does not
involve the web server, and is strictly between your email client, your
sending ISP via SMTP, and the recipient's email services. This will be
as secure as those mail services can be - i.e. if your own computer is
not compromised nor is the recipient's.


That is what I was asking - about the protocal used to transmit. It is
not the issue of what happens on the server (that is down to the server
operator); it is down to whether it can be seen en-route. I am also
aware of https and 128 bit SSL. That was not the issue here - just the
transmission protocol which - being SMTP - is not very secure.



What protocol/security did you expect when sending mail with a
mail-client ?



The protocol I assume for standard email is SMTP and security is zero.

D.
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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Ray_Net]

Dustbin wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a
web form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP.
But is it HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


An interesting collection of answers though clearly many thought I
wanted to write the web page or I was defining the server behaviour.


No, I didn't think that. :-)


I was concerned for the security of my information being entered in a
web form and how readable it might be as it returns to the server.


In most cases, anything you enter in someone's web form will be secure.
It does depend on how the site handles it. If you're concerned about
"shopping carts" those should be done using https, because you are
probably typing your credit card and other personal info. They would be
stored on the site's database and not visible to anyone beyond the
server, other than the site's owner.


Of course, any plain text format would be readable but some protocols
are more likely to be targeted than others. E.g. I think SMTP is more
likely to have probes looking for useful info than message data being
sent back as HTML using HTTP.


You did ask specifically about the "mailto:"; protocol. A mailto does not
involve the web server, and is strictly between your email client, your
sending ISP via SMTP, and the recipient's email services. This will be
as secure as those mail services can be - i.e. if your own computer is
not compromised nor is the recipient's.


That is what I was asking - about the protocal used to transmit. It is
not the issue of what happens on the server (that is down to the server
operator); it is down to whether it can be seen en-route. I am also
aware of https and 128 bit SSL. That was not the issue here - just the
transmission protocol which - being SMTP - is not very secure.



What protocol/security did you expect when sending mail with a mail-client ?

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Philip TAYLOR]

GeraldJan wrote:

[recycled material snipped]


¿ever heard of Smail? ask Johan Vromans
ps. genius in Perl


The problem is, how a "mailto" URL is handled is under
the control of the client system, not of the person
creating the "mailto" link.  Thus it is /never/ safe
to assume that information sent via a "mailto" link
will be secure.

Philip Taylor
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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[GeraldJan]

Dustbin wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a
web form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP.
But is it HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


An interesting collection of answers though clearly many thought I
wanted to write the web page or I was defining the server behaviour.


No, I didn't think that. :-)


I was concerned for the security of my information being entered in a
web form and how readable it might be as it returns to the server.


In most cases, anything you enter in someone's web form will be secure.
It does depend on how the site handles it. If you're concerned about
"shopping carts" those should be done using https, because you are
probably typing your credit card and other personal info. They would be
stored on the site's database and not visible to anyone beyond the
server, other than the site's owner.


Of course, any plain text format would be readable but some protocols
are more likely to be targeted than others. E.g. I think SMTP is more
likely to have probes looking for useful info than message data being
sent back as HTML using HTTP.


You did ask specifically about the "mailto:"; protocol. A mailto does not
involve the web server, and is strictly between your email client, your
sending ISP via SMTP, and the recipient's email services. This will be
as secure as those mail services can be - i.e. if your own computer is
not compromised nor is the recipient's.


That is what I was asking - about the protocal used to transmit. It is
not the issue of what happens on the server (that is down to the server
operator); it is down to whether it can be seen en-route. I am also
aware of https and 128 bit SSL. That was not the issue here - just the
transmission protocol which - being SMTP - is not very secure.

Bert.







¿ever heard of Smail? ask Johan Vromans
ps. genius in Perl

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Dustbin]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a
web form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP.
But is it HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


An interesting collection of answers though clearly many thought I
wanted to write the web page or I was defining the server behaviour.


No, I didn't think that. :-)


I was concerned for the security of my information being entered in a
web form and how readable it might be as it returns to the server.


In most cases, anything you enter in someone's web form will be secure.
It does depend on how the site handles it. If you're concerned about
"shopping carts" those should be done using https, because you are
probably typing your credit card and other personal info. They would be
stored on the site's database and not visible to anyone beyond the
server, other than the site's owner.


Of course, any plain text format would be readable but some protocols
are more likely to be targeted than others. E.g. I think SMTP is more
likely to have probes looking for useful info than message data being
sent back as HTML using HTTP.


You did ask specifically about the "mailto:"; protocol. A mailto does not
involve the web server, and is strictly between your email client, your
sending ISP via SMTP, and the recipient's email services. This will be
as secure as those mail services can be - i.e. if your own computer is
not compromised nor is the recipient's.


That is what I was asking - about the protocal used to transmit. It is 
not the issue of what happens on the server (that is down to the server 
operator); it is down to whether it can be seen en-route. I am also 
aware of https and 128 bit SSL. That was not the issue here - just the 
transmission protocol which - being SMTP - is not very secure.


Bert.





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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[NoOp]

On 11/09/2011 02:19 PM, Dustbin wrote:
> I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a web 
> form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP. But is it 
> HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?
...

Perhaps this will be of help:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6068
[The 'mailto' URI Scheme]

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Robert Kaiser]

Philip TAYLOR schrieb:

Now my thinking is that his analysis is wrong, and a mailto:
link will almost certainly lead to an SMTP exchange, and
almost certainly never lead to one involving HTTP or FTP.
Would you agree ?


As I said, mailto: doesn't send anything over the net by itself at all, 
it just sends the data to an email client/window, and whatever that uses 
does the send then. This can be any protocol used for sending emails, 
depending on what the user has set up.


Robert Kaiser


--
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meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the 
time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Philip TAYLOR wrote:


Robert Kaiser wrote:


I was talking about those without a mailto: there. For mailto: it
doesn't send at all but just open an email window, and that
determines how it is sent in the end - usually ends up with SMTP
or IMAP, whatever the respective email client and account has set.


OK, my point is that I was seeking to clarify Dustbin's original
thinking, in which he writes :


E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP. But is it
HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


Now my thinking is that his analysis is wrong, and a mailto: link
will almost certainly lead to an SMTP exchange, and almost certainly
never lead to one involving HTTP or FTP. Would you agree ? (I think
that IMAP is a red-herring, in that IMAP is basically a protocol for
accessing existing messages from a server rather than for creating
new messages).


I agree with you, Philip. Clicking on a mailto link invokes a local 
email client only, and cannot to my knowledge start up any type of 
webmail interface. Hence, the clicker will use SMTP to send whatever 
email message he creates, and therefore no HTTP(S). Certainly not FTP. 
IMAP and POP are used for receiving email, not sending it from your 
local computer.


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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Philip TAYLOR]

Robert Kaiser wrote:


I was talking about those without a mailto: there.
For mailto: it doesn't send at all but just open an email window, and
that determines how it is sent in the end - usually ends up with SMTP or
IMAP, whatever the respective email client and account has set.


OK, my point is that I was seeking to clarify Dustbin's
original thinking, in which he writes :


E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP. But is it
HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


Now my thinking is that his analysis is wrong, and a mailto:
link will almost certainly lead to an SMTP exchange, and
almost certainly never lead to one involving HTTP or FTP.
Would you agree ?  (I think that IMAP is a red-herring, in
that IMAP is basically a protocol for accessing existing
messages from a server rather than for creating new messages).

Philip Taylor
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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Robert Kaiser]

Philip TAYLOR schrieb:



Robert Kaiser wrote:


Dustbin schrieb:



I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a web
form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP. But is it
HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


Usually HTTP (or HTTPS depending on the URL of the page and the target
attribute of the HTML form) - depending on specifications in the HTML,
either a GET or POST request is used (the recommendation is to use GET
when performing searches etc. that are repeatable and the resulting link
can be bookmarked or handed to others, while using POST in other cases).


I cannot see how you arrive at that analysis, Robert.
Dustbin clearly schrieb "e.g., the mailto: protocol",
which cannot (as far as I can see) ever result in the
use of either HTTP or HTTPS. SMTP, yes; HTTP(S), no.


I was talking about those without a mailto: there.
For mailto: it doesn't send at all but just open an email window, and 
that determines how it is sent in the end - usually ends up with SMTP or 
IMAP, whatever the respective email client and account has set.


Robert Kaiser


--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the 
time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Philip TAYLOR]

Robert Kaiser wrote:


Dustbin schrieb:



I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a web
form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP. But is it
HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


Usually HTTP (or HTTPS depending on the URL of the page and the target
attribute of the HTML form) - depending on specifications in the HTML,
either a GET or POST request is used (the recommendation is to use GET
when performing searches etc. that are repeatable and the resulting link
can be bookmarked or handed to others, while using POST in other cases).


I cannot see how you arrive at that analysis, Robert.
Dustbin clearly schrieb "e.g., the mailto: protocol",
which cannot (as far as I can see) ever result in the
use of either HTTP or HTTPS.  SMTP, yes; HTTP(S), no.

Philip Taylor
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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Robert Kaiser]

Dustbin schrieb:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a web
form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP. But is it
HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


Usually HTTP (or HTTPS depending on the URL of the page and the target 
attribute of the HTML form) - depending on specifications in the HTML, 
either a GET or POST request is used (the recommendation is to use GET 
when performing searches etc. that are repeatable and the resulting link 
can be bookmarked or handed to others, while using POST in other cases).


Robert Kaiser

--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the 
time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Dustbin wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a
web form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP.
But is it HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


An interesting collection of answers though clearly many thought I
wanted to write the web page or I was defining the server behaviour.


No, I didn't think that.  :-)


I was concerned for the security of my information being entered in a
 web form and how readable it might be as it returns to the server.


In most cases, anything you enter in someone's web form will be secure. 
It does depend on how the site handles it. If you're concerned about 
"shopping carts" those should be done using https, because you are 
probably typing your credit card and other personal info. They would be 
stored on the site's database and not visible to anyone beyond the 
server, other than the site's owner.



Of course, any plain text format would be readable but some protocols
are more likely to be targeted than others. E.g. I think SMTP is more
likely to have probes looking for useful info than message data being
sent back as HTML using HTTP.


You did ask specifically about the "mailto:"; protocol. A mailto does not 
involve the web server, and is strictly between your email client, your 
sending ISP via SMTP, and the recipient's email services. This will be 
as secure as those mail services can be - i.e. if your own computer is 
not compromised nor is the recipient's.


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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Dustbin]

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a web
form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP. But is it
HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?

TIA

D.
An interesting collection of answers though clearly many thought I 
wanted to write the web page or I was defining the server behaviour.


I was concerned for the security of my information being entered in a 
web form and how readable it might be as it returns to the server. Of 
course, any plain text format would be readable but some protocols are 
more likely to be targeted than others. E.g. I think SMTP is more likely 
to have probes looking for useful info than message data being sent back 
as HTML using HTTP.


Thanks everyone.

D.
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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Michael Gordon wrote:

Very good examples. We now have several different ways to accomplish
the same task.


On the web, there are many ways to skin the cat.  :-)

BTW, I found your touchbase.html page. I see it leads to the NMS version
of Matt's old script. It's good you're using the updated and secure
version.  (your arm.pl)

I always write my own, strictly in PHP, such as this one:
http://tekrider.net/pages/tekcontact.php
though the core is the same across all my sites.

The whole page, form and emailing, is about 7KB.

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Michael Gordon]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Michael Gordon wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Michael Gordon wrote:

[snip as this is OT]

You can hide your e-mail address from them using a little JavaScript;
the web browser reads the script and displays the name and address
visually, but the BOTS cannot render the mail address.


..or use this method, which works even when the visitor has JavaScript
disabled:




It works fine, except you cannot include the Subject field, JavaScript
will allow this.


Sure you can. Here's a sample result from my obfuscation page:

user@example.com?subject=add+subject+text


..which will show the following clickable in your web page:

u...@example.com?subject=add+subject+text


I provided a neat work around above with a CGI script residing on the
web server.


I use PHP scripts on my web form contact pages. Here's a sample how-to,
that is much easier than dealing with a CGI script:

http://safalra.com/programming/php/contact-feedback-form/



Very good examples.  We now have several different ways to accomplish 
the same task.


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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Michael Gordon wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Michael Gordon wrote:

[snip as this is OT]

You can hide your e-mail address from them using a little JavaScript;
the web browser reads the script and displays the name and address
visually, but the BOTS cannot render the mail address.


..or use this method, which works even when the visitor has JavaScript
disabled:




It works fine, except you cannot include the Subject field, JavaScript
will allow this.


Sure you can. Here's a sample result from my obfuscation page:

href='mailto:user@example.com?subject=add+subject+text'>user@example.com?subject=add+subject+text


..which will show the following clickable in your web page:

u...@example.com?subject=add+subject+text


I provided a neat work around above with a CGI script residing on the
web server.


I use PHP scripts on my web form contact pages. Here's a sample how-to, 
that is much easier than dealing with a CGI script:


http://safalra.com/programming/php/contact-feedback-form/

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Michael Gordon]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Michael Gordon wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in
a web form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not
SMTP. But is it HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


You're going to have to provide more details.

The mailto: protocol will do nothing more than activate a default
email client on your computer, such as SeaMonkey, with the TO:
address filled in ^1. How you send the email you create is totally
dependent upon your email account settings. (but if you are
sending, it should be SMTP)

^1 optionally, some other bits such as Subject line, but those are
unreliable across clients.


The problem with using the mailto: switch is with the SPAMOTS
searching for valid e-mail addresses; they will send you tons of junk
mail by scanning your web page.


That's a common problem, if you compose your web page in the clear.


You can hide your e-mail address from them using a little JavaScript;
the web browser reads the script and displays the name and address
visually, but the BOTS cannot render the mail address.


..or use this method, which works even when the visitor has JavaScript
disabled:


It works fine, except you cannot include the Subject field, JavaScript 
will allow this.



The other option is to use a CGI script on your web server to record
the form contents (data) and sernd you an e-mail with all the data
fields filled in. Your sending e-mail address is hidden in a folder
on the server where the BOTS cannot get to it.


I use web forms plus obfuscated mailtos on all my web sites, and
bot-harvested spam is non-existent.

But I believe your comments don't address the original question, at
least as I have interpreted Dustbin's question. I think he was asking
what protocol he uses for writing to the clicked mailto address, or he
means what protocol the web site uses to send mail to the webmaster.
I provided a neat work around above with a CGI script residing on the 
web server.


Since the subject is hazy, I should mention that mailtos don't work for
any visitor who does *not* have an email client, but who uses, say, a
hotmail or yahoo-type web-based email system only. Clicking the mailto
will never open the visitors' browsers to their webmail page.




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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Michael Gordon wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in
a web form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not
SMTP. But is it HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?


You're going to have to provide more details.

The mailto: protocol will do nothing more than activate a default
email client on your computer, such as SeaMonkey, with the TO:
address filled in ^1. How you send the email you create is totally
dependent upon your email account settings. (but if you are
sending, it should be SMTP)

^1 optionally, some other bits such as Subject line, but those are
unreliable across clients.


The problem with using the mailto: switch is with the SPAMOTS
searching for valid e-mail addresses; they will send you tons of junk
mail by scanning your web page.


That's a common problem, if you compose your web page in the clear.


You can hide your e-mail address from them using a little JavaScript;
 the web browser reads the script and displays the name and address
visually, but the BOTS cannot render the mail address.


..or use this method, which works even when the visitor has JavaScript 
disabled:





The other option is to use a CGI script on your web server to record
the form contents (data) and sernd you an e-mail with all the data
fields filled in. Your sending e-mail address is hidden in a folder
on the server where the BOTS cannot get to it.


I use web forms plus obfuscated mailtos on all my web sites, and 
bot-harvested spam is non-existent.


But I believe your comments don't address the original question, at 
least as I have interpreted Dustbin's question. I think he was asking 
what protocol he uses for writing to the clicked mailto address, or he 
means what protocol the web site uses to send mail to the webmaster.


Since the subject is hazy, I should mention that mailtos don't work for 
any visitor who does *not* have an email client, but who uses, say, a 
hotmail or yahoo-type web-based email system only. Clicking the mailto 
will never open the visitors' browsers to their webmail page.


--
   -bts
   -This space for rent, but the price is high
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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Michael Gordon]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a web
form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP. But is it
HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?



You're going to have to provide more details.

The mailto: protocol will do nothing more than activate a default email
client on your computer, such as SeaMonkey, with the TO: address filled
in ^1. How you send the email you create is totally dependent upon your
email account settings. (but if you are sending, it should be SMTP)

^1 optionally, some other bits such as Subject line, but those are
unreliable across clients.

The problem with using the mailto: switch is with the SPAMOTS searching 
for valid e-mail addresses; they will send you tons of junk mail by 
scanning your web page.


You can hide your e-mail address from them using a little JavaScript; 
the web browser reads the script and displays the name and address 
visually, but the BOTS cannot render the mail address.


The other option is to use a CGI script on your web server to record the 
form contents (data) and sernd you an e-mail with all the data fields 
filled in.  Your sending e-mail address is hidden in a folder on the 
server where the BOTS cannot get to it.


Michael G

--
Armadillo Web Development
www.armadilloweb.com

Cell: 903.244.3644

Opening your Door to Opportunity
and inviting the world to walk through.

Character is doing the right thing...
Even when no one is watching...

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Re: This is not exactly on topic - web forms transmission.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Dustbin wrote:

I have been wondering what protocol is used to return the info in a web
form. E.g. the mailto: protocol. I take it this is not SMTP. But is it
HTTP; is it FTP; is it...?



You're going to have to provide more details.

The mailto: protocol will do nothing more than activate a default email 
client on your computer, such as SeaMonkey, with the TO: address filled 
in ^1. How you send the email you create is totally dependent upon your 
email account settings.  (but if you are sending, it should be SMTP)


^1 optionally, some other bits such as Subject line, but those are 
unreliable across clients.


--
   -bts
   -This space for rent, but the price is high
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support-seamonkey mailing list
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