Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 16/05/14 07:44, PhillipJones wrote: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Ray Davison wrote: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Philip Taylor wrote: Trane Francks wrote: SeaMonkey's lineage is directly traceable to Netscape Navigator 1.0. SeaMonkey will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year. Er, no (not unless you believe in time-travel !); it is /Netscape/ that will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year, and as someone who has used every version from Netscape 1.0 to Seamonkey 2.17, I would like to wish Netscape a Very Happy Birthday indeed ! What's in a name? That which we call SeaMonkey, by any other name would smell as sweet... And as for there being a continuous chain, my current mail files began life in Netscape. They have always been on a separate partition from the apps, so when I got a new version of the app I just told it to use the existing files. Mine too, but I don't remember the number of the first version of Netscape I used. Mine was 3.0.1. Gold cost me $39.95 receive in Mail a CD and a 200 page paperback book. I've got two copies of the book lying around here, so did I get one with NC 3.0 Gold and another with NC 4.0, I wonder!! As this is not problem solving, I've cross-posted to moz.gen and set follow-up there as well! -- Daniel User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0 SeaMonkey/2.26 Build identifier: 20140415200419 or User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0 SeaMonkey/2.26 Build identifier: 20140408191805 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Philip Taylor wrote: Trane Francks wrote: SeaMonkey's lineage is directly traceable to Netscape Navigator 1.0. SeaMonkey will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year. Er, no (not unless you believe in time-travel !); it is /Netscape/ that will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year, and as someone who has used every version from Netscape 1.0 to Seamonkey 2.17, I would like to wish Netscape a Very Happy Birthday indeed ! Philip Taylor I second that Happy Birthday. I think I began with a 2.0 version of Netscape... and never left. :) bj ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ray_Net wrote: Ant wrote, On 14/05/2014 10:50: On 5/13/2014 11:03 AM PT, A Williams typed: But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P I certainly hope not. I'm happy with the way things are now, but forever is a long time. Circumstances do change, and I hope that when they change enough to require a new design, the dev team will be able to do the necessary modifications. Any project that is not willing to adjust to new circumstances is already dead. It just hasn't noticed it yet. But they have no time and no money to modify drastically the product. Didn't the original design come from Netscape Communicator days as the suite product? My old memory is failing me. I have been using it since then IIRC. I don't think Netscape Navigator was a suite (just a web browser)? http://sillydog.org/narchive/ still has the software, and the story. ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/ still lives! and you can install it and work with ? :-) I posted that sillydog link because I found the version history comments to be interesting, not because I thought it would be a good idea to actually install that stuff. Then again, it reminded me of the era when the Netscape Suite had a working Calendar along with other useful programs. I do some programming, but not on PCs and not in C. Me getting involved in that side of things would be a recipe for disaster. rantI just can't get my head around a situation where the main language around has so many traps for the unwary (or wary) so that so much software is crawling with security holes. There were languages in development in the 70's which tried to make things safer, not all of them were academic exercises unsuitable for the real world./rant ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
A Williams wrote: rantI just can't get my head around a situation where the main language around has so many traps for the unwary (or wary) so that so much software is crawling with security holes. There were languages in development in the 70's which tried to make things safer, not all of them were academic exercises unsuitable for the real world./rant BEGIN WHILE TRUE DO print (Hear hear !, newline) OD END ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
A Williams: Then again, it reminded me of the era when the Netscape Suite had a working Calendar along with other useful programs. In SM 1.5a, there was a working calendar. :) http://www.triffids.de/pub/screenshot/ca131215.png Hartmut ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Philip Taylor wrote: Trane Francks wrote: SeaMonkey's lineage is directly traceable to Netscape Navigator 1.0. SeaMonkey will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year. Er, no (not unless you believe in time-travel !); it is /Netscape/ that will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year, and as someone who has used every version from Netscape 1.0 to Seamonkey 2.17, I would like to wish Netscape a Very Happy Birthday indeed ! What's in a name? That which we call SeaMonkey, by any other name would smell as sweet... And as for there being a continuous chain, my current mail files began life in Netscape. They have always been on a separate partition from the apps, so when I got a new version of the app I just told it to use the existing files. Ray ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ray Davison wrote: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Philip Taylor wrote: Trane Francks wrote: SeaMonkey's lineage is directly traceable to Netscape Navigator 1.0. SeaMonkey will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year. Er, no (not unless you believe in time-travel !); it is /Netscape/ that will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year, and as someone who has used every version from Netscape 1.0 to Seamonkey 2.17, I would like to wish Netscape a Very Happy Birthday indeed ! What's in a name? That which we call SeaMonkey, by any other name would smell as sweet... And as for there being a continuous chain, my current mail files began life in Netscape. They have always been on a separate partition from the apps, so when I got a new version of the app I just told it to use the existing files. Mine too, but I don't remember the number of the first version of Netscape I used. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Ray Davison wrote: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Philip Taylor wrote: Trane Francks wrote: SeaMonkey's lineage is directly traceable to Netscape Navigator 1.0. SeaMonkey will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year. Er, no (not unless you believe in time-travel !); it is /Netscape/ that will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year, and as someone who has used every version from Netscape 1.0 to Seamonkey 2.17, I would like to wish Netscape a Very Happy Birthday indeed ! What's in a name? That which we call SeaMonkey, by any other name would smell as sweet... And as for there being a continuous chain, my current mail files began life in Netscape. They have always been on a separate partition from the apps, so when I got a new version of the app I just told it to use the existing files. Mine too, but I don't remember the number of the first version of Netscape I used. Mine was 3.0.1. Gold cost me $39.95 receive in Mail a CD and a 200 page paperback book. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjones...@comcast.net ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Interviewed by CNN on 15/05/2014 11:56, A Williams told the world: rantI just can't get my head around a situation where the main language around has so many traps for the unwary (or wary) so that so much software is crawling with security holes. There were languages in development in the 70's which tried to make things safer, not all of them were academic exercises unsuitable for the real world./rant You may be interested in the Rust language being developed at Mozilla, then. From what I understand, it's designed with two goals: security (where C fails) and massive parallelism (where most languages fail). Mozilla is also writing a new experimental browser kernel -- in Rust. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... Sent from my Bugatti Veyron. * Added by TagZilla 0.7a1 running on Seamonkey 2.26 * Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 5/13/2014 11:03 AM PT, A Williams typed: But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P I certainly hope not. I'm happy with the way things are now, but forever is a long time. Circumstances do change, and I hope that when they change enough to require a new design, the dev team will be able to do the necessary modifications. Any project that is not willing to adjust to new circumstances is already dead. It just hasn't noticed it yet. But they have no time and no money to modify drastically the product. Didn't the original design come from Netscape Communicator days as the suite product? My old memory is failing me. I have been using it since then IIRC. I don't think Netscape Navigator was a suite (just a web browser)? http://sillydog.org/narchive/ still has the software, and the story. ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/ still lives! -- I'm not a worker ant. I'm like a queen. Or maybe a king. But you never hear of king ants. --Sean Bentley /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ant wrote, On 14/05/2014 10:50: On 5/13/2014 11:03 AM PT, A Williams typed: But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P I certainly hope not. I'm happy with the way things are now, but forever is a long time. Circumstances do change, and I hope that when they change enough to require a new design, the dev team will be able to do the necessary modifications. Any project that is not willing to adjust to new circumstances is already dead. It just hasn't noticed it yet. But they have no time and no money to modify drastically the product. Didn't the original design come from Netscape Communicator days as the suite product? My old memory is failing me. I have been using it since then IIRC. I don't think Netscape Navigator was a suite (just a web browser)? http://sillydog.org/narchive/ still has the software, and the story. ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/ still lives! and you can install it and work with ? :-) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ray_Net: Ant wrote, On 14/05/2014 10:50: http://sillydog.org/narchive/ still has the software, and the story. ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/ still lives! and you can install it and work with ? :-) Ehm, i admit that i am curious. A little bit. So i have tried the communicator 4.8 from the first link. Well, there was a missing lib on my OS. Further investigation would have been tedious. :-D Hartmut ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Hartmut Figge wrote: Ray_Net: Ant wrote, On 14/05/2014 10:50: http://sillydog.org/narchive/ still has the software, and the story. ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/ still lives! and you can install it and work with ? :-) Ehm, i admit that i am curious. A little bit. So i have tried the communicator 4.8 from the first link. Well, there was a missing lib on my OS. Further investigation would have been tedious. :-D Hartmut I suspect it could be done, if you were willing to install an operating system available at the time of release in virtualbox and track down any required supporting packages. Getting it to run in a current operating system is likely to be a much greater challenge. I also suspect that there would be problems with most web sites due to changes in HTML and other standards since the time of that browser. Dave ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
David H. Durgee wrote: Hartmut Figge wrote: Ehm, i admit that i am curious. A little bit. So i have tried the communicator 4.8 from the first link. Well, there was a missing lib on my OS. Further investigation would have been tedious. :-D I suspect it could be done, if you were willing to install an operating system available at the time of release in virtualbox and track down any required supporting packages. It should suffice to install compatibility libs. In case there are any. *g* At the moment i am trying to reply with a rather old mozilla 1.4, Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 No configruration whatsoever, so bear with me. Hartmut ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Hartmut Figge: At the moment i am trying to reply with a rather old mozilla 1.4, Perhaps i should show a picture. Nostalgia. :) http://www.triffids.de/pub/screenshot/mo140514.png Hartmut ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Interviewed by CNN on 14/05/2014 10:49, David H. Durgee told the world: Hartmut Figge wrote: Ray_Net: Ant wrote, On 14/05/2014 10:50: http://sillydog.org/narchive/ still has the software, and the story. ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/ still lives! and you can install it and work with ? :-) Ehm, i admit that i am curious. A little bit. So i have tried the communicator 4.8 from the first link. Well, there was a missing lib on my OS. Further investigation would have been tedious. :-D Hartmut I suspect it could be done, if you were willing to install an operating system available at the time of release in virtualbox and track down any required supporting packages. Getting it to run in a current operating system is likely to be a much greater challenge. I also suspect that there would be problems with most web sites due to changes in HTML and other standards since the time of that browser. I did it once, for fun. Installed WFWG 3.11 in Virtual PC, with IE 5 and Netscape 4.07. Managed to even get the sound board working. Hit a few websites too, just to give whoever analyses the logs a WTF? moment. I still have the virtual disk... it's really small for current standards, just 150 Mb. Now you did it, I HAD to run it again. Crap... VPC NAT is not working. Will have to debug this one of these months. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... Sent from my Bat-Computer. * Added by TagZilla 0.7a1 running on Seamonkey 2.26 * Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 5/12/2014 1:40 PM PT, EE typed: The old Mozilla suite was the predecessor of SeaMonkey. You forgot Netscape days. :P -- I'm not a worker ant. I'm like a queen. Or maybe a king. But you never hear of king ants. --Sean Bentley /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ant wrote: On 5/11/2014 11:09 PM PT, Ray_Net typed: But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P I certainly hope not. I'm happy with the way things are now, but forever is a long time. Circumstances do change, and I hope that when they change enough to require a new design, the dev team will be able to do the necessary modifications. Any project that is not willing to adjust to new circumstances is already dead. It just hasn't noticed it yet. But they have no time and no money to modify drastically the product. Didn't the original design come from Netscape Communicator days as the suite product? My old memory is failing me. I have been using it since then IIRC. I don't think Netscape Navigator was a suite (just a web browser)? http://sillydog.org/narchive/ still has the software, and the story. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ant wrote: On 5/12/2014 1:40 PM PT, EE typed: The old Mozilla suite was the predecessor of SeaMonkey. You forgot Netscape days. :P And Communicator before that. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjones...@comcast.net ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 5/14/14 5:58 AM +0900, PhillipJones wrote: Ant wrote: On 5/12/2014 1:40 PM PT, EE typed: The old Mozilla suite was the predecessor of SeaMonkey. You forgot Netscape days. :P And Communicator before that. Communicator were during the Netscape days. Netscape Navigator (1994) Netscape Communicator (1997) Mozilla Suite (1999) Netscape 6 7 (2000 2002) - Based on Mozilla Suite SeaMonkey (2006) SeaMonkey's lineage is directly traceable to Netscape Navigator 1.0. SeaMonkey will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year. -- / // Trane Francks tr...@tranefrancks.com Tokyo, Japan // Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Trane Francks wrote: SeaMonkey's lineage is directly traceable to Netscape Navigator 1.0. SeaMonkey will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year. Er, no (not unless you believe in time-travel !); it is /Netscape/ that will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year, and as someone who has used every version from Netscape 1.0 to Seamonkey 2.17, I would like to wish Netscape a Very Happy Birthday indeed ! Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Philip Taylor wrote: Trane Francks wrote: SeaMonkey's lineage is directly traceable to Netscape Navigator 1.0. SeaMonkey will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year. Er, no (not unless you believe in time-travel !); it is /Netscape/ that will effectively be having its 20th birthday this year, and as someone who has used every version from Netscape 1.0 to Seamonkey 2.17, I would like to wish Netscape a Very Happy Birthday indeed ! What's in a name? That which we call SeaMonkey, by any other name would smell as sweet... -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
MCBastos wrote, On 12/05/2014 01:44: Interviewed by CNN on 11/05/2014 18:13, Ant told the world: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P I certainly hope not. I'm happy with the way things are now, but forever is a long time. Circumstances do change, and I hope that when they change enough to require a new design, the dev team will be able to do the necessary modifications. Any project that is not willing to adjust to new circumstances is already dead. It just hasn't noticed it yet. But they have no time and no money to modify drastically the product. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 5/11/2014 7:50 PM, David E. Ross wrote: On 5/11/2014 5:37 PM, Ron Hunter wrote: On 5/11/2014 4:13 PM, Ant wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P Nothing remains the same forever. However, it appears that the unpaid SeaMonkey volunteer developers reject the concept of change for the sake of change. As usability consultant Jakob Nielsen points out that kind of change turns off users. Another turn-off cited by Nielsen is dramatic change; where change is necessary, he advocates gradual evolution. I agree, when it comes to the user interface. People seem to like the current interface, which works well, and I see no reason to change it unless significant improvement in FUNCTION can be shown. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 12/05/14 20:57, Ant wrote: On 5/11/2014 11:09 PM PT, Ray_Net typed: But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P I certainly hope not. I'm happy with the way things are now, but forever is a long time. Circumstances do change, and I hope that when they change enough to require a new design, the dev team will be able to do the necessary modifications. Any project that is not willing to adjust to new circumstances is already dead. It just hasn't noticed it yet. But they have no time and no money to modify drastically the product. Didn't the original design come from Netscape Communicator days as the suite product? My old memory is failing me. I have been using it since then IIRC. I don't think Netscape Navigator was a suite (just a web browser)? Seems to me, Netscape Navigator did have some sort of a mail function, even back as far as NN 0.9. Then came NC with the full-blown suite. Then Moz Suite followed, then SeaMonkey Suite, however I seem to recall that the SeaMonkey Suite was re-written at the SM 2.0 - SM 2.1 transition!! -- Daniel User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0 SeaMonkey/2.26 Build identifier: 20140415200419 or User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0 SeaMonkey/2.26 Build identifier: 20140408191805 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ant wrote: On 5/11/2014 11:09 PM PT, Ray_Net typed: But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P I certainly hope not. I'm happy with the way things are now, but forever is a long time. Circumstances do change, and I hope that when they change enough to require a new design, the dev team will be able to do the necessary modifications. Any project that is not willing to adjust to new circumstances is already dead. It just hasn't noticed it yet. But they have no time and no money to modify drastically the product. Didn't the original design come from Netscape Communicator days as the suite product? My old memory is failing me. I have been using it since then IIRC. I don't think Netscape Navigator was a suite (just a web browser)? The old Mozilla suite was the predecessor of SeaMonkey. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ed Mullen wrote: Ant wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P Forever??? Geez. You seem to be asking an awful lot. I mean, I won't even be alive forever. I love change, embrace it. I like the Firefox changes, Australis. Fun to play with. I use it on my second monitor almost all the time. Still, SeaMonkey is my default app. If they update the UI? Will I freak out? No. If they make it look like Firefox? Well, they'll likely lose me. At that point they'll have zero product differentiation from Firefox and Thunderbird. So, what would be the point? No, I think it's safe to assume that SM will be (until the volunteers all die) unique, a throw-back, quaint, and loveable. And something all of us affianados will support. Bravo to the SeaMonkey devs. As in another post, yeah, we users can sometimes get nasty and all. But we really do love what you do. Keep it up. Ditto to that. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
EE wrote: Ant wrote: On 5/11/2014 11:09 PM PT, Ray_Net typed: But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P I certainly hope not. I'm happy with the way things are now, but forever is a long time. Circumstances do change, and I hope that when they change enough to require a new design, the dev team will be able to do the necessary modifications. Any project that is not willing to adjust to new circumstances is already dead. It just hasn't noticed it yet. But they have no time and no money to modify drastically the product. Didn't the original design come from Netscape Communicator days as the suite product? My old memory is failing me. I have been using it since then IIRC. I don't think Netscape Navigator was a suite (just a web browser)? The old Mozilla suite was the predecessor of SeaMonkey. Well, that's a really short and totally incomplete history. See my post just above yours. -- Ed Mullen http://edmullen.net/ The online world today is a scary place so remember, practice safe hex. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
PhillipJones wrote: David E. Ross wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM, A Williams wrote: Robert wrote: I've recently upgraded to FireFox v29, and I do not like the new dumbed-down user interface. I've looked at the screenshots of SeaMonkey and they look like FireFox used to look. Before I go through the motions of downloading, installing, and configuring SeaMonkey are my primary browser I have one question: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? Thanks for any replies. This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. And the answer to that answer has always been Hooray!! And Hallelujah!!! And AMEN! :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P -- Happy Mother's Day, especially for the queen ants! /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ant wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P Probably not. But hopefully by that time I will be pushing up daises. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjones...@comcast.net ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Interviewed by CNN on 11/05/2014 18:13, Ant told the world: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P I certainly hope not. I'm happy with the way things are now, but forever is a long time. Circumstances do change, and I hope that when they change enough to require a new design, the dev team will be able to do the necessary modifications. Any project that is not willing to adjust to new circumstances is already dead. It just hasn't noticed it yet. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... Sent from my Xerox Star. * Added by TagZilla 0.7a1 running on Seamonkey 2.26 * Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 5/11/2014 4:13 PM, Ant wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P Nothing remains the same forever. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 5/11/2014 5:37 PM, Ron Hunter wrote: On 5/11/2014 4:13 PM, Ant wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P Nothing remains the same forever. However, it appears that the unpaid SeaMonkey volunteer developers reject the concept of change for the sake of change. As usability consultant Jakob Nielsen points out that kind of change turns off users. Another turn-off cited by Nielsen is dramatic change; where change is necessary, he advocates gradual evolution. -- David E. Ross http://www.rossde.com/ On occasion, I filter and ignore all newsgroup messages posted through GoogleGroups via Google's G2/1.0 user agent because of spam, flames, and trolling from that source. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ant wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P Forever??? Geez. You seem to be asking an awful lot. I mean, I won't even be alive forever. I love change, embrace it. I like the Firefox changes, Australis. Fun to play with. I use it on my second monitor almost all the time. Still, SeaMonkey is my default app. If they update the UI? Will I freak out? No. If they make it look like Firefox? Well, they'll likely lose me. At that point they'll have zero product differentiation from Firefox and Thunderbird. So, what would be the point? No, I think it's safe to assume that SM will be (until the volunteers all die) unique, a throw-back, quaint, and loveable. And something all of us affianados will support. Bravo to the SeaMonkey devs. As in another post, yeah, we users can sometimes get nasty and all. But we really do love what you do. Keep it up. -- Ed Mullen http://edmullen.net/ Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Ed Mullen wrote: Ant wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design forever? :P Forever??? Geez. You seem to be asking an awful lot. I mean, I won't even be alive forever. I love change, embrace it. I like the Firefox changes, Australis. Fun to play with. I use it on my second monitor almost all the time. Still, SeaMonkey is my default app. If they update the UI? Will I freak out? No. If they make it look like Firefox? Well, they'll likely lose me. At that point they'll have zero product differentiation from Firefox and Thunderbird. So, what would be the point? No, I think it's safe to assume that SM will be (until the volunteers all die) unique, a throw-back, quaint, and loveable. And something all of us affianados aficionados Geez. will support. Bravo to the SeaMonkey devs. As in another post, yeah, we users can sometimes get nasty and all. But we really do love what you do. Keep it up. -- Ed Mullen http://edmullen.net/ Deja Roo: What? ANOTHER marsupial?!!! ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 5/10/2014 10:49 AM, Robert wrote: I've recently upgraded to FireFox v29, and I do not like the new dumbed-down user interface. I've looked at the screenshots of SeaMonkey and they look like FireFox used to look. Before I go through the motions of downloading, installing, and configuring SeaMonkey are my primary browser I have one question: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? It is currently planned to continue the security/stability updates without any drastic UI changes to SeaMonkey. A few caveats to let you know about if you are considering switching from Firefox. * We have no paid employees, so any and *all* bugs you encounter with SeaMonkey are fixed entirely on our free time. * Due to said no paid employees we have a hard time adding features, even desired features in a timely manner. * We don't have any official QA process tied to a set of conformance tests/etc. So there is more likely to be impactful bugs in a given release of SeaMonkey than Firefox, and might even be harder for them to bubble up to our attention due to the smaller userbase. That said, we'd be GLAD to have you join our userbase. I should also note that I don't currently work on SeaMonkey UX (nor do I expect to anytime soon), though as a product driver of SeaMonkey I do see a LOT of promise and good in Firefox's new design with Australis, and Tabs-On-Top, etc. - I do however also see value in that users don't want as drastic of a change. I even see more value in the current Firefox UI when it comes to SeaMonkey over Firefox. So I *would* support incremental changes to make seamonkey be closer to the Australis look and feel. Again thats probably a large chunk of work that I'm not personally doing, so I wouldn't worry just based on my personal support for said changes. ~Justin Wood (Callek) SeaMonkey Council Member SeaMonkey Release Engineer Mozilla Corporation Release Engineer ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 05/10/2014 10:49 AM, Robert wrote: I've recently upgraded to FireFox v29, and I do not like the new dumbed-down user interface. I've looked at the screenshots of SeaMonkey and they look like FireFox used to look. Before I go through the motions of downloading, installing, and configuring SeaMonkey are my primary browser I have one question: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? Thanks for any replies. Any replies? Cool! Firefox users can still customize the UI. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Robert wrote: I've recently upgraded to FireFox v29, and I do not like the new dumbed-down user interface. I've looked at the screenshots of SeaMonkey and they look like FireFox used to look. Before I go through the motions of downloading, installing, and configuring SeaMonkey are my primary browser I have one question: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? Thanks for any replies. This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
Interviewed by CNN on 10/05/2014 11:49, Robert told the world: I've recently upgraded to FireFox v29, and I do not like the new dumbed-down user interface. I've looked at the screenshots of SeaMonkey and they look like FireFox used to look. Before I go through the motions of downloading, installing, and configuring SeaMonkey are my primary browser I have one question: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? 1. The dev team has stated that they have no intention to overhaul the Seamonkey UI and move to an Australis-like UI. Simply stated, even if they wanted to do it (they apparently don't), it's too much work and they don't have the manpower, so they focus on other things. The only scenario I imagine where that could change is if changes in the engine engine remove functionality needed for Seamonkey's classical UI. I don't see it happening anytime soon in Gecko, but there's a theoretical risk of it happening a few years down the road, if the Servo project ever replaces Gecko as the main Mozilla browser engine. 2. Yes, as long as the UI remains the same, the customizability should stay the same. But there's a price to pay there. As Seamonkey and Firefox grow apart, I expect that extensions might need more tweaks to work correctly in both. Some extension authors may stop supporting Seamonkey after a while. As for Australis... I use both Seamonkey and Firefox, and also a bit of Iron, in my day-to-day browsing. So far, I haven't noticed any lost functionality in Firefox 29 -- anything I can do in SM, I can do just as easily in FF (well, except mail/news stuff. I don't use Composer at all). Yes, stuff got moved around, but I found that I don't really miss the UI elements that got removed -- I have been using right-click menus as a first choice for almost twenty years, so I don't miss the File menu for instance. I can't say that I'm particularly enthusiastic of the new design, but neither do I hate it. It took me all of two minutes to learn the new UI's logic, which is way less than it takes me to learn the UI for the average casual game. I simply don't have the knee-jerk rejection to change that I seem to see a lot going around. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... Sent from my PalantÃr. * Added by TagZilla 0.7a1 running on Seamonkey 2.26 * Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM, A Williams wrote: Robert wrote: I've recently upgraded to FireFox v29, and I do not like the new dumbed-down user interface. I've looked at the screenshots of SeaMonkey and they look like FireFox used to look. Before I go through the motions of downloading, installing, and configuring SeaMonkey are my primary browser I have one question: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? Thanks for any replies. This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. And the answer to that answer has always been Hooray!! -- David E. Ross http://www.rossde.com/ On occasion, I filter and ignore all newsgroup messages posted through GoogleGroups via Google's G2/1.0 user agent because of spam, flames, and trolling from that source. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
David E. Ross wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM, A Williams wrote: Robert wrote: I've recently upgraded to FireFox v29, and I do not like the new dumbed-down user interface. I've looked at the screenshots of SeaMonkey and they look like FireFox used to look. Before I go through the motions of downloading, installing, and configuring SeaMonkey are my primary browser I have one question: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? Thanks for any replies. This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. And the answer to that answer has always been Hooray!! It would be like a blunt pencil. Pointless. I think Firefox wants one look-and-feel for all systems - phone, tablet, PC. Seamonkey simply does not make sense on a phone or tablet. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
David E. Ross wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM, A Williams wrote: Robert wrote: I've recently upgraded to FireFox v29, and I do not like the new dumbed-down user interface. I've looked at the screenshots of SeaMonkey and they look like FireFox used to look. Before I go through the motions of downloading, installing, and configuring SeaMonkey are my primary browser I have one question: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? Thanks for any replies. This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. And the answer to that answer has always been Hooray!! And Hallelujah!!! -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjones...@comcast.net ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey futures...
A Williams wrote: David E. Ross wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM, A Williams wrote: Robert wrote: I've recently upgraded to FireFox v29, and I do not like the new dumbed-down user interface. I've looked at the screenshots of SeaMonkey and they look like FireFox used to look. Before I go through the motions of downloading, installing, and configuring SeaMonkey are my primary browser I have one question: Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI? Thanks for any replies. This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months. The answer has always been no. And the answer to that answer has always been Hooray!! It would be like a blunt pencil. Pointless. I think Firefox wants one look-and-feel for all systems - phone, tablet, PC. Seamonkey simply does not make sense on a phone or tablet. Not unless the tablet had a minimum of 13 screen anything less and you need a Telescope to see it. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjones...@comcast.net ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
