Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

David E. Ross sent the following on Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:02:48 -0700:
> On 3/22/13 12:56 PM, Jim G. wrote:
> > Ant sent the following on Wed, 20 Mar 2013 22:40:14 -0700:
> >> On 3/19/2013 12:40 PM PT, Jim G. typed:
> >>
> > Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
> > side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
> > of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
> > like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
> > to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...
> 
>  Please forgive my ignorance but what's Reddit?? ;-)
> >>>
> >>> The new(er) Digg. It's basically a big news-gathering and -sharing
> >>> playground for 20-something-year-old guys and other guys who wish that
> >>> they were still 20-something.
> >>
> >> I used to use Digg until they went downhill withi its v4 and revamped 
> >> the whole thing. I switched to Reddit like most Diggers. I still use 
> >> newsgroups/usenet, /., IRC, text based programs, SSH2, etc. :)
> > 
> > USENET and the old Compuserve with its venerable forums pretty much
> > guaranteed that I would never be happy with web-based interactions. To
> > me, this sort of thing requires an offline reader and some really good
> > filters, neither of which is available on most web forums.
> > 
> 
> Another feature of NNTP (which includes USENET and other newsgroups)
> missing in Web-based forums is the fact that non-propriety newsgroups
> are not tied to a particular host.  A list that was updated less than a
> year ago has over 70 stand-alone NSPs (news service providers), most of
> which cover the Big8 hierarchies (comp.*, news.*, sci.*, humanities.*,
> rec.*, soc.*, talk.*, and misc.*).  Some NSPs are even free.
> 
> If I post a message to a newsgroup hosted at reader.albasani.net,
> someone else can read it and reply to it at news.eternal-september.org.
> And a third person can also read and reply at news.giganews.com.  We do
> not all have to be logged in to the same host.
> 
> When I cite "non-propriety newsgroups", I mean newsgroups generally not
> controlled by some enterprise.  Mozilla's news.mozilla.org hosts
> proprietary newsgroups.

Yeah, USENET was definitely set up in the days before proprietary
concerns and profit and user profiling and targeted advertising and many
other lovely things were a part of the deal. It was, plain and simple, a
way for people to communicate. And it was/is awesome. I remember using
it back in college in the early '80s in the computer labs in Urbana, but
there was a gap there between college and my first machine of my own in
the late 80's, at which time C-serve and its forums (after testing the
waters with GEnie and Prodigy) somehow managed to snag me before I
revisited USENET. Then AOL came along and killed C-serve, making my next
move an obvious one.

-- 
Jim G.
[Insert your favorite clever tagline here.]
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Re: Usenet in SM

[David E. Ross]

On 3/22/13 12:56 PM, Jim G. wrote:
> Ant sent the following on Wed, 20 Mar 2013 22:40:14 -0700:
>> On 3/19/2013 12:40 PM PT, Jim G. typed:
>>
> Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
> side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
> of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
> like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
> to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...

 Please forgive my ignorance but what's Reddit?? ;-)
>>>
>>> The new(er) Digg. It's basically a big news-gathering and -sharing
>>> playground for 20-something-year-old guys and other guys who wish that
>>> they were still 20-something.
>>
>> I used to use Digg until they went downhill withi its v4 and revamped 
>> the whole thing. I switched to Reddit like most Diggers. I still use 
>> newsgroups/usenet, /., IRC, text based programs, SSH2, etc. :)
> 
> USENET and the old Compuserve with its venerable forums pretty much
> guaranteed that I would never be happy with web-based interactions. To
> me, this sort of thing requires an offline reader and some really good
> filters, neither of which is available on most web forums.
> 

Another feature of NNTP (which includes USENET and other newsgroups)
missing in Web-based forums is the fact that non-propriety newsgroups
are not tied to a particular host.  A list that was updated less than a
year ago has over 70 stand-alone NSPs (news service providers), most of
which cover the Big8 hierarchies (comp.*, news.*, sci.*, humanities.*,
rec.*, soc.*, talk.*, and misc.*).  Some NSPs are even free.

If I post a message to a newsgroup hosted at reader.albasani.net,
someone else can read it and reply to it at news.eternal-september.org.
And a third person can also read and reply at news.giganews.com.  We do
not all have to be logged in to the same host.

When I cite "non-propriety newsgroups", I mean newsgroups generally not
controlled by some enterprise.  Mozilla's news.mozilla.org hosts
proprietary newsgroups.

-- 
David E. Ross


Are taxes too high in the U.S.?  Check the bar graph
at  to see.
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

Daniel sent the following on Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:41:39 +1100:
> Jim G. wrote:
> > Daniel sent the following on Sat, 16 Mar 2013 20:19:02 +1100:
> >> Jim G. wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >>> Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
> >>> side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
> >>> of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
> >>> like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
> >>> to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...
> >>>
> >>
> >> Please forgive my ignorance but what's Reddit?? ;-)
> >
> > The new(er) Digg. It's basically a big news-gathering and -sharing
> > playground for 20-something-year-old guys and other guys who wish that
> > they were still 20-something.
> 
> Thanks, still don't know, but I'm now pretty sure I don't need to know!!

Somone provided a Wikipedia link to info, and you can always just visit
the site. It's nothing more or less than a web-based BBS-like system.
It's easy enough to visit the thing and get a feel for it. You won't get
arrested, or anything. :)

-- 
Jim G.
[Insert your favorite clever tagline here.]
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

Ant sent the following on Wed, 20 Mar 2013 22:40:14 -0700:
> On 3/19/2013 12:40 PM PT, Jim G. typed:
> 
> >>> Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
> >>> side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
> >>> of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
> >>> like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
> >>> to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...
> >>
> >> Please forgive my ignorance but what's Reddit?? ;-)
> >
> > The new(er) Digg. It's basically a big news-gathering and -sharing
> > playground for 20-something-year-old guys and other guys who wish that
> > they were still 20-something.
> 
> I used to use Digg until they went downhill withi its v4 and revamped 
> the whole thing. I switched to Reddit like most Diggers. I still use 
> newsgroups/usenet, /., IRC, text based programs, SSH2, etc. :)

USENET and the old Compuserve with its venerable forums pretty much
guaranteed that I would never be happy with web-based interactions. To
me, this sort of thing requires an offline reader and some really good
filters, neither of which is available on most web forums.

-- 
Jim G.
[Insert your favorite clever tagline here.]
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Ant]

On 3/19/2013 12:40 PM PT, Jim G. typed:


Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...


Please forgive my ignorance but what's Reddit?? ;-)


The new(er) Digg. It's basically a big news-gathering and -sharing
playground for 20-something-year-old guys and other guys who wish that
they were still 20-something.


I used to use Digg until they went downhill withi its v4 and revamped 
the whole thing. I switched to Reddit like most Diggers. I still use 
newsgroups/usenet, /., IRC, text based programs, SSH2, etc. :)

--
"For an ant to have wings would be his (her) undoing." --Iranian
   /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
  / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
 | |o   o| |
\ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
 ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
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Re: Usenet in SM

[GerardJan]

Jim G. wrote:

David E. Ross sent the following on Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:55:51 -0700:

On 3/15/13 12:53 PM, Jim G. wrote [in part]:


I suspect that very few people run multiple profiles, so I can see why
that might also be a low priority item. Certainly no one I know outside
of the tech field does, anyway.


I prefer to run with images and cookies restricted to the domain of the
page I am viewing and with no popups.  However, four financial
institutions with which I have accounts require unrestricted images,
cookies, and popups.  So I access my financial accounts in a separate
profile.


Fair enough. For stuff requiring additional security or Java, I use a
separate profile, too. But it's also a different browser. Yeah, I use
Firefox and some additional add-ons for stuff like that. :)


I also have a guest profile for my adult son and daughter for when they
visit.


Again, fair enough. But I don't know anyone who would visit me without
bringing his or her own machine along, so it's never been an issue.


Ditto all of this for my wife's installation of SeaMonkey on her PC.


In any case, it's worth noting that profiles still work, even if a
graphic somewhere is old and inconsistent with the new look. It's also
worth noting that you're here, which means that you're probably not the
typical SeaMonkey user, as that person is probably completely unaware
that this support group even exists, let alone how to access it via
SeaMonkey. So how you handle things is likely to be very different from
how the average user handles them.




--
~gertjan
http://vinkestijn.info
mailto:g.j.f.vinkeste...@hotmail.es
home:http://www.ciudadpatricia.com
Fedora Linux Version 18

ps.
[gerardjan@gershwin seamonkey]$ fortune -l
Modern psychology takes completely for granted that behavior and neural
function are perfectly correlated, that one is completely caused by the
other.  There is no separate soul or lifeforce to stick a finger into 
the brain now and then and make neural cells do what they would not 
otherwise.

Actually, of course, this is a working assumption only. ... It is quite
conceivable that someday the assumption will have to be rejected.  But 
it is important also to see that we have not reached that day yet: the 
working assumption is a necessary one and there is no real evidence 
opposed to it.
Our failure to solve a problem so far does not make it insoluble.  One 
cannot logically be a determinist in physics and biology, and a mystic 
in psychology.

--
D.O. Hebb, "Organization of Behavior: A Neuropsychological Theory", 1949

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Re: Usenet in SM

[Daniel]

Jim G. wrote:

Daniel sent the following on Sat, 16 Mar 2013 20:19:02 +1100:

Jim G. wrote:



Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...



Please forgive my ignorance but what's Reddit?? ;-)


The new(er) Digg. It's basically a big news-gathering and -sharing
playground for 20-something-year-old guys and other guys who wish that
they were still 20-something.


Thanks, still don't know, but I'm now pretty sure I don't need to know!!

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.17 Build identifier: 20130224181913


or

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:20.0) 
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/20.0 SeaMonkey/2.17 Build identifier: 20130224182221

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Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

David E. Ross sent the following on Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:55:51 -0700:
> On 3/15/13 12:53 PM, Jim G. wrote [in part]:
> > 
> > I suspect that very few people run multiple profiles, so I can see why
> > that might also be a low priority item. Certainly no one I know outside
> > of the tech field does, anyway.
> 
> I prefer to run with images and cookies restricted to the domain of the
> page I am viewing and with no popups.  However, four financial
> institutions with which I have accounts require unrestricted images,
> cookies, and popups.  So I access my financial accounts in a separate
> profile.

Fair enough. For stuff requiring additional security or Java, I use a
separate profile, too. But it's also a different browser. Yeah, I use
Firefox and some additional add-ons for stuff like that. :)

> I also have a guest profile for my adult son and daughter for when they
> visit.

Again, fair enough. But I don't know anyone who would visit me without
bringing his or her own machine along, so it's never been an issue.

> Ditto all of this for my wife's installation of SeaMonkey on her PC.

In any case, it's worth noting that profiles still work, even if a
graphic somewhere is old and inconsistent with the new look. It's also
worth noting that you're here, which means that you're probably not the
typical SeaMonkey user, as that person is probably completely unaware
that this support group even exists, let alone how to access it via
SeaMonkey. So how you handle things is likely to be very different from
how the average user handles them.

-- 
Jim G.
[Insert your favorite clever tagline here.]
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

Daniel sent the following on Sat, 16 Mar 2013 20:19:02 +1100:
> Jim G. wrote:
> 
> 
> > Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
> > side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
> > of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
> > like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
> > to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...
> >
> 
> Please forgive my ignorance but what's Reddit?? ;-)

The new(er) Digg. It's basically a big news-gathering and -sharing
playground for 20-something-year-old guys and other guys who wish that
they were still 20-something.

-- 
Jim G.
[Insert your favorite clever tagline here.]
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Rufus]

Jim G. wrote:

WaltS sent the following on Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:01:57 -0400:

On 03/15/2013 04:49 PM, Rufus wrote:



But back to product priorities.  What SM promises to deliver - or more
to the point *has* delivered - should continue to function, and that
should be job *#1*.  That's not only showing pride in workmanship and
good QC, but also good for the reputation of the product.



You make it sound like there is a paid staff working on SeaMonkey, for
the approximately 100,000+ Active Daily Users using it.



Do you do any testing of Beta, Aurora, or Nightly builds, and report bugs?


Heh. Exactly. And it's a free product, so I can't complain about getting
my money's worth. And it's open source! Like you, I wonder if Rufus is
willing to step up and help out, or if Ray_Net is personally helping to
create a "more perfect product."



Did it, tried it, yada yada...when one guy was able to shout down the 
entire team I dropped my efforts.  I still submit and follow bugs though.



Me, I don't have the talent or the time to fix the crossposting issue
that I would like to see fixed. So I mention my disappointment and move
on. And I appreciate the value I'm getting for my non-buck. :)



Me, I don't care about crossposting...so it's not a concern of mine as a 
user.


--
 - Rufus
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

WaltS sent the following on Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:01:57 -0400:
> On 03/15/2013 04:49 PM, Rufus wrote:
> 
> 
> > But back to product priorities.  What SM promises to deliver - or more
> > to the point *has* delivered - should continue to function, and that
> > should be job *#1*.  That's not only showing pride in workmanship and
> > good QC, but also good for the reputation of the product.
> >
> 
> You make it sound like there is a paid staff working on SeaMonkey, for 
> the approximately 100,000+ Active Daily Users using it.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you do any testing of Beta, Aurora, or Nightly builds, and report bugs?

Heh. Exactly. And it's a free product, so I can't complain about getting
my money's worth. And it's open source! Like you, I wonder if Rufus is
willing to step up and help out, or if Ray_Net is personally helping to
create a "more perfect product."

Me, I don't have the talent or the time to fix the crossposting issue
that I would like to see fixed. So I mention my disappointment and move
on. And I appreciate the value I'm getting for my non-buck. :)

-- 
Jim G.
[Insert your favorite clever tagline here.]
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Re: OT Re: Usenet in SM

[Geoff Welsh]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 08:09:30 -0300, MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 16/03/2013 06:02, Daniel told the world:


How come the figures drop off each Saturday and Sunday?? Is more peoples
out and about, getting a life??



Yeah, that suggests that a large part of the Seamonkey usage is from
people who use it at work and not at home. Which, frankly, is a bit
surprising to me, since it also suggests that there is a fair number of
companies deploying Seamonkey instead of, say, Outlook or Firefox +
Thunderbird. I would have thought corporations would shy away of little
projects such as this and go with the "big names" just because they are,
well,big.


Perhaps in the past, companies standardized on Netscape 4x. They might
have then upgraded to Mozilla 1.7 and then to SeaMonkey.

Phil



It's people using SM on their own computer when they are /supposed/ to 
be working.

GW
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Ed Mullen]

Daniel wrote:

Jim G. wrote:



Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...



Please forgive my ignorance but what's Reddit?? ;-)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Bureaucracy: a method of turning energy into solid waste.
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Re: OT Re: Usenet in SM

[Philip Chee]

On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 08:09:30 -0300, MCBastos wrote:
> Interviewed by CNN on 16/03/2013 06:02, Daniel told the world:
> 
>> How come the figures drop off each Saturday and Sunday?? Is more peoples 
>> out and about, getting a life??
>> 
> 
> Yeah, that suggests that a large part of the Seamonkey usage is from
> people who use it at work and not at home. Which, frankly, is a bit
> surprising to me, since it also suggests that there is a fair number of
> companies deploying Seamonkey instead of, say, Outlook or Firefox +
> Thunderbird. I would have thought corporations would shy away of little
> projects such as this and go with the "big names" just because they are,
> well,big.

Perhaps in the past, companies standardized on Netscape 4x. They might
have then upgraded to Mozilla 1.7 and then to SeaMonkey.

Phil

-- 
Philip Chee , 
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
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Re: OT Re: Usenet in SM

[MCBastos]

Interviewed by CNN on 16/03/2013 06:02, Daniel told the world:

> How come the figures drop off each Saturday and Sunday?? Is more peoples 
> out and about, getting a life??
> 

Yeah, that suggests that a large part of the Seamonkey usage is from
people who use it at work and not at home. Which, frankly, is a bit
surprising to me, since it also suggests that there is a fair number of
companies deploying Seamonkey instead of, say, Outlook or Firefox +
Thunderbird. I would have thought corporations would shy away of little
projects such as this and go with the "big names" just because they are,
well,big.

-- 
MCBastos

This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized
use will be prosecuted under the DMCA.

-=-=-
... Sent from my iBot.
* Added by TagZilla 0.7a1 running on Seamonkey 2.16.2 *
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Ant]

On 3/16/2013 1:57 AM PT, news.mozilla.org typed:

> How do you subscribe to free Usenet from EternalSeptember, what is the

name of the server


http://www.eternal-september.org/
--
"As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of 
men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior 
of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she 
is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain

   /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
  / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
 | |o   o| |
\ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
 ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Daniel]

Jim G. wrote:



Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...



Please forgive my ignorance but what's Reddit?? ;-)

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.17 Build identifier: 20130224181913

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OT Re: Usenet in SM

[Daniel]

WaltS wrote:

On 03/15/2013 04:49 PM, Rufus wrote:



But back to product priorities.  What SM promises to deliver - or more
to the point *has* delivered - should continue to function, and that
should be job *#1*.  That's not only showing pride in workmanship and
good QC, but also good for the reputation of the product.



You make it sound like there is a paid staff working on SeaMonkey, for
the approximately 100,000+ Active Daily Users using it.



Do you do any testing of Beta, Aurora, or Nightly builds, and report bugs?


How come the figures drop off each Saturday and Sunday?? Is more peoples 
out and about, getting a life??


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.17 Build identifier: 20130224181913

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Re: Usenet in SM

[news.mozilla.org]

Geoff Welsh wrote:

as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?
IDR,
GW
How do you subscribe to free Usenet from EternalSeptember, what is the 
name of the server

Thanks in advance!!
I used to get Usenet through news.wanadoo.fr but it does not seem to 
work again.

Best Regards
@lex
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Re: Usenet in SM

[David E. Ross]

On 3/15/13 12:53 PM, Jim G. wrote [in part]:
> 
> I suspect that very few people run multiple profiles, so I can see why
> that might also be a low priority item. Certainly no one I know outside
> of the tech field does, anyway.

I prefer to run with images and cookies restricted to the domain of the
page I am viewing and with no popups.  However, four financial
institutions with which I have accounts require unrestricted images,
cookies, and popups.  So I access my financial accounts in a separate
profile.

I also have a guest profile for my adult son and daughter for when they
visit.

Ditto all of this for my wife's installation of SeaMonkey on her PC.

-- 
David E. Ross


Are taxes too high in the U.S.?  Check the bar graph
at  to see.
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Rufus]

MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 15/03/2013 17:49, Rufus told the world:


These days I would think that any household that has multiple users on
one machine might run multiple profiles.


Actually, if you have multiple users it usually makes more sense to have
separate profiles at the OS level, not the application level. Profile
managing was a necessity back in the dark days of Windows 9x, which had
limited profile managing features. Nowadays, it's a niche feature.



...heh...I was waiting to hear this.  I think this depends on how the 
software is installed - on a multi-user Mac I can install an app "for 
all users of this machine" or for "current user only".  So you'd have to 
be that savvy as well.



And certainly from a security standpoint one might want to run one
fairly "open" Profile and one that is more lock-down secure when roaming
- like using public wifi with a laptop; sans using Password Manager
(which scares me more the more I learn about how it actually works).
I've been doing this for decades, and it's been one of the reasons I've
been a champion of SM for business users and travelers in addition to
using whole disk encryption - creation and use of situationally suitable
Profiles.


OK, that's a valid use-case for profiles. Maybe. I'm not sure how much
more secure you get by using separate profiles. The main increased risks
you have when you are roaming are someone stealing your laptop (for
which the separate profile won't be much help) or Wi-fi packet sniffing
/ spoofing (for which a much more effective option would be to use a VPN
tunnel to a trusted proxy).



By invoking another set of add-ons, like HTTPS Everywhere.  Or like I 
mentioned not using a Master Password or storing any Passwords at 
all...or not allowing storage/setting of *any* Cookies, etc.; alternate 
user Preference settings for public use...but yeah, I agree physical 
security is just as important.  At least you can do what you can do, and 
it's one of the features that makes (made) NS and SM superior, IMO.


OTOH, I just a couple days ago I saw the local PD and sheriffs swarming 
an ATM that had been hacked outside of one of our grocery stores, and 
we've also had a rash of credit card skimming (using RF from a distance 
- not hacking the pumps) at a local gas station - some of the folk I 
work with have even been stung.


So setting up a locked down Profile for use on a laptop while roaming 
around using public wifi seems like a far more prudent thing to do than 
follow the x.x.x "security updates" to me...jus' sayin'...


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Re: Usenet in SM

[Rufus]

WaltS wrote:

On 03/15/2013 05:31 PM, Rufus wrote:

WaltS wrote:

On 03/15/2013 04:49 PM, Rufus wrote:



But back to product priorities.  What SM promises to deliver - or more
to the point *has* delivered - should continue to function, and that
should be job *#1*.  That's not only showing pride in workmanship and
good QC, but also good for the reputation of the product.



You make it sound like there is a paid staff working on SeaMonkey, for
the approximately 100,000+ Active Daily Users using it.





I'm trying to make it sound like they should actually care about their
user base and their concerns...if you're trying to say they shouldn't
just because they don't get paid - which I hear all too often - then
they should *quit*.

I like to believe "volunteers" are far more motivated than paid
hacks...like myself.  I'm not a coder, but I do evaluate, write, and
disposition software problem reports for a living, professionally.

Which is just one more reason for me to be frustrated when things don't
get fixed...I expect far more of volunteers.


Do you do any testing of Beta, Aurora, or Nightly builds, and report
bugs?


Yes - I've written several bugs (on formal releases), and followed them
up...to no or very little avail.  Even when they've targeted a fix for a
particularly annoying one.

I've even offered UE/UI evaluation/advise when asked...then retracted my
participation when ONE individual raised a huff and even shouted down
the rest of the SM team over a really stupid interface change that even
they agreed with me on.

After that experience I really don't get how the team functions...it
seems like even worse chaos than I deal with on the job.



Well, sorry about your frustration. I can't find anything like you
describe in my SeaMonkey, but I'm on Linux, not a Mac.

I'm sure they care, but can't duplicate your problem, so don't know what
to fix.



And that's fine and all that the Linux version works, but *which* of my 
problems?  The SM team already knows of and has duplicated the one for 
the mis-drawn drop down, and responded in detail regarding issues with 
the Password Manager in the bugs I've written...then seemingly just 
dropped the effort.  And the basic principle of responsibility for QC 
for the overall product line still remains...


For example, I've just pointed out a relationship between one of my Mac 
problems with the Profile Manager and a similar and probably related 
issue in the PC/Windows version now that I have a Windows 7 install and 
am starting to use SM on it.  And I've made a similar observation 
concerning SM appearing to ignore the user Pref setting for invoke of 
Master Password request.  Do I have any hope that I'll see either issue 
resolved or that my comment on their relation will cause the team to 
even look, though formal bugs exist?  Very little, if any.


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Re: Usenet in SM

[MCBastos]

Interviewed by CNN on 15/03/2013 17:49, Rufus told the world:

> These days I would think that any household that has multiple users on 
> one machine might run multiple profiles.

Actually, if you have multiple users it usually makes more sense to have
separate profiles at the OS level, not the application level. Profile
managing was a necessity back in the dark days of Windows 9x, which had
limited profile managing features. Nowadays, it's a niche feature.

> And certainly from a security standpoint one might want to run one 
> fairly "open" Profile and one that is more lock-down secure when roaming 
> - like using public wifi with a laptop; sans using Password Manager 
> (which scares me more the more I learn about how it actually works). 
> I've been doing this for decades, and it's been one of the reasons I've 
> been a champion of SM for business users and travelers in addition to 
> using whole disk encryption - creation and use of situationally suitable 
> Profiles.

OK, that's a valid use-case for profiles. Maybe. I'm not sure how much
more secure you get by using separate profiles. The main increased risks
you have when you are roaming are someone stealing your laptop (for
which the separate profile won't be much help) or Wi-fi packet sniffing
/ spoofing (for which a much more effective option would be to use a VPN
tunnel to a trusted proxy).



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Re: Usenet in SM

[WaltS]

On 03/15/2013 05:31 PM, Rufus wrote:

WaltS wrote:

On 03/15/2013 04:49 PM, Rufus wrote:



But back to product priorities.  What SM promises to deliver - or more
to the point *has* delivered - should continue to function, and that
should be job *#1*.  That's not only showing pride in workmanship and
good QC, but also good for the reputation of the product.



You make it sound like there is a paid staff working on SeaMonkey, for
the approximately 100,000+ Active Daily Users using it.





I'm trying to make it sound like they should actually care about their
user base and their concerns...if you're trying to say they shouldn't
just because they don't get paid - which I hear all too often - then
they should *quit*.

I like to believe "volunteers" are far more motivated than paid
hacks...like myself.  I'm not a coder, but I do evaluate, write, and
disposition software problem reports for a living, professionally.

Which is just one more reason for me to be frustrated when things don't
get fixed...I expect far more of volunteers.


Do you do any testing of Beta, Aurora, or Nightly builds, and report bugs?


Yes - I've written several bugs (on formal releases), and followed them
up...to no or very little avail.  Even when they've targeted a fix for a
particularly annoying one.

I've even offered UE/UI evaluation/advise when asked...then retracted my
participation when ONE individual raised a huff and even shouted down
the rest of the SM team over a really stupid interface change that even
they agreed with me on.

After that experience I really don't get how the team functions...it
seems like even worse chaos than I deal with on the job.



Well, sorry about your frustration. I can't find anything like you 
describe in my SeaMonkey, but I'm on Linux, not a Mac.


I'm sure they care, but can't duplicate your problem, so don't know what 
to fix.


--
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Thunderbird Release
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openSUSE 12.3 is out!
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Rufus]

WaltS wrote:

On 03/15/2013 04:49 PM, Rufus wrote:



But back to product priorities.  What SM promises to deliver - or more
to the point *has* delivered - should continue to function, and that
should be job *#1*.  That's not only showing pride in workmanship and
good QC, but also good for the reputation of the product.



You make it sound like there is a paid staff working on SeaMonkey, for
the approximately 100,000+ Active Daily Users using it.





I'm trying to make it sound like they should actually care about their 
user base and their concerns...if you're trying to say they shouldn't 
just because they don't get paid - which I hear all too often - then 
they should *quit*.


I like to believe "volunteers" are far more motivated than paid 
hacks...like myself.  I'm not a coder, but I do evaluate, write, and 
disposition software problem reports for a living, professionally.


Which is just one more reason for me to be frustrated when things don't 
get fixed...I expect far more of volunteers.



Do you do any testing of Beta, Aurora, or Nightly builds, and report bugs?


Yes - I've written several bugs (on formal releases), and followed them 
up...to no or very little avail.  Even when they've targeted a fix for a 
particularly annoying one.


I've even offered UE/UI evaluation/advise when asked...then retracted my 
participation when ONE individual raised a huff and even shouted down 
the rest of the SM team over a really stupid interface change that even 
they agreed with me on.


After that experience I really don't get how the team functions...it 
seems like even worse chaos than I deal with on the job.


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Re: Usenet in SM

[WaltS]

On 03/15/2013 04:49 PM, Rufus wrote:



But back to product priorities.  What SM promises to deliver - or more
to the point *has* delivered - should continue to function, and that
should be job *#1*.  That's not only showing pride in workmanship and
good QC, but also good for the reputation of the product.



You make it sound like there is a paid staff working on SeaMonkey, for 
the approximately 100,000+ Active Daily Users using it.




Do you do any testing of Beta, Aurora, or Nightly builds, and report bugs?
--
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Thunderbird Release
I got nothing to say, but I'll say it anyway.
openSUSE 12.3 is out!
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Rufus]

Jim G. wrote:

Rufus sent the following on Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:52:16 -0700:

Jim G. wrote:

Rufus sent the following on Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:55:46 -0700:

Ray_Net wrote:

Daniel wrote, On 12/03/2013 10:37:

Daniel wrote:

Ant wrote:

On 3/11/2013 11:28 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is
there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?


This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See . Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it
has not
yet been fixed.


Wow, I guess no one cares to fix it? I just voted and subscribed.


and that would explain why I got an update email on this bug tonight!!


and a second one now!! At last, some activity!!


Anyway - who's care ? :-)
The problem is because SM development use the wrong way philosophy.
They need votes to correct a bug.
They don't need votes of implementing a new stuff.
In the real world, this is exactly the inverse:
Votes are needed to implement a new gadget, if no vote, there is nobody
interesting, so don't spend time to create the not needed stuff.
For bugs, votes are not needed, because each bug needs to be resolved -
thus creating a more perfect product.


Second.


I suspect that they'd love to do it that way if they had an unlimited
number of people working on development, but it's probably an hours in
the day sort of thing. I do agree, though, that it's hard to know what
matters to people when you don't make it easy for them to (a) know that
voting exists and (b) make it easy to get to the voting site.



"Fixing" isn't "development".  "Fixing" is fixing.  Baseline
functionality should work, and continue to work, at a minimum.


As much as I'd like to see good crosspost management in SM and TB, I
don't consider it "baseline functionality." You can still access groups,
post to groups, etc. I might compare it to air conditioning in a car, in
that *I* want it, but I'm well aware that the car will drive just fine
without it.



Personally, I don't care about crossposting...or managing it.  It's just 
not something that bothers me or that I care about as a user.



I think the most annoying bugs are things that seem simpler than
developing new capability.


I suspect that the key word there is "seem." My guess is that if the fix
was easy, we would have seen it long ago. So for whatever reason, the
fix must be challenging.



...fully drawing a dropdown menu that was previously working...c'mon. 
That's just simple quality control.



What's even more frustrating is when a user
files/follows a bug, gets a verification and target for a fix, and that
fix is subsequently ignored - two inter-related cases in point being
bugs 724293 and 74346.

It seemed the team understands what is going on here, targeted a fix for
SM 2.10 (if "Milestone" means the same thing in the SM software world as
it does in mine), and yet both are *still* broken in SM 2.16.x.

And somewhere along the way I even pointed out that the Profile Manager
appears to be using two differing code branches, given that invoke at
startup displays a newer graphic and Change Profile displays the old
NS-like graphic.


I suspect that very few people run multiple profiles, so I can see why
that might also be a low priority item. Certainly no one I know outside
of the tech field does, anyway.



These days I would think that any household that has multiple users on 
one machine might run multiple profiles.


And certainly from a security standpoint one might want to run one 
fairly "open" Profile and one that is more lock-down secure when roaming 
- like using public wifi with a laptop; sans using Password Manager 
(which scares me more the more I learn about how it actually works). 
I've been doing this for decades, and it's been one of the reasons I've 
been a champion of SM for business users and travelers in addition to 
using whole disk encryption - creation and use of situationally suitable 
Profiles.



So...I can't use Profile Manager *and* the bug for not following the
on-disk path are still broke 6-odd releases post target and remain so.

Granted, this isn't as "simple" a fix as the under-drawn Password drop
down, but it's longevity is impressive...


It's just not a priority, I guess. And I can sort of understand it.
USENET predates Mozilla by a lot of years, so most people on USENET were
already fluent with another reader long ago. And newbies to USENET
nowadays are more likely to think that Google Groups *is* USENET, so I
just don't see a lot of people rallying to get the crosspost management
that I would like to see. Like me, if crosspost management is important,
they just continue to use a separate newsreader. It would be nice to not
have to have separate programs for

Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

Daniel sent the following on Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:23:16 +1100:
> Jim G. wrote:
> > David E. Ross sent the following on Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:28:47 -0700:
> >> On 3/11/13 5:05 PM, Geoff Welsh wrote:
> >>> as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
> >>> EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.
> >>>
> >>> When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is there a
> >>> setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
> >>> read in both groups?
> >>> IDR,
> >>> GW
> >>>
> >>
> >> This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
> >> See .  Since this
> >> worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it has not
> >> yet been fixed.
> >
> > Yes, this lack of adequate crossspost management has been an issue for
> > ages and is the main reason why I've never given up on Agent as my
> > newsreader. There are things about SeaMonkey and T-bird that I really
> > like, including some things that Agent can't be made to do, but this
> > crosspost business is a killer. Every once in a while, I'll switch to SM
> > or TB for a week or two until I once again get just too frustrated at
> > this, and then I go back to Agent again for newsgroups.
> 
> As I understand it, development of Thunderbird by Mozilla staff has, 
> effectively, come to an end (only roughly yearly updates) and SeaMonkey 
> is developed, basically, by a group of volunteers (who, presumably, have 
> real day jobs to bring in the hard-earneds), I'm guessing there will be 
> little development in e-mail-reader-type bugs!!

Yep. And what time is devoted to things will probably be on the email
side of things, as most people under 35 have probably never even heard
of USENET. Once in a while, I take a look at the web boards on a place
like Reddit and laugh that "kids today" think that that's a better way
to communicate and exchange ideas online. Oh, well...

-- 
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

Rufus sent the following on Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:52:16 -0700:
> Jim G. wrote:
> > Rufus sent the following on Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:55:46 -0700:
> >> Ray_Net wrote:
> >>> Daniel wrote, On 12/03/2013 10:37:
>  Daniel wrote:
> > Ant wrote:
> >> On 3/11/2013 11:28 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:
> >>
>  as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
>  EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.
> 
>  When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is
>  there a
>  setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
>  read in both groups?
> >>>
> >>> This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
> >>> See . Since this
> >>> worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it
> >>> has not
> >>> yet been fixed.
> >>
> >> Wow, I guess no one cares to fix it? I just voted and subscribed.
> >
> > and that would explain why I got an update email on this bug tonight!!
> 
>  and a second one now!! At last, some activity!!
> 
> >>> Anyway - who's care ? :-)
> >>> The problem is because SM development use the wrong way philosophy.
> >>> They need votes to correct a bug.
> >>> They don't need votes of implementing a new stuff.
> >>> In the real world, this is exactly the inverse:
> >>> Votes are needed to implement a new gadget, if no vote, there is nobody
> >>> interesting, so don't spend time to create the not needed stuff.
> >>> For bugs, votes are not needed, because each bug needs to be resolved -
> >>> thus creating a more perfect product.
> >>
> >> Second.
> >
> > I suspect that they'd love to do it that way if they had an unlimited
> > number of people working on development, but it's probably an hours in
> > the day sort of thing. I do agree, though, that it's hard to know what
> > matters to people when you don't make it easy for them to (a) know that
> > voting exists and (b) make it easy to get to the voting site.
> >
> 
> "Fixing" isn't "development".  "Fixing" is fixing.  Baseline 
> functionality should work, and continue to work, at a minimum.

As much as I'd like to see good crosspost management in SM and TB, I
don't consider it "baseline functionality." You can still access groups,
post to groups, etc. I might compare it to air conditioning in a car, in
that *I* want it, but I'm well aware that the car will drive just fine
without it.

> I think the most annoying bugs are things that seem simpler than 
> developing new capability.

I suspect that the key word there is "seem." My guess is that if the fix
was easy, we would have seen it long ago. So for whatever reason, the
fix must be challenging.

> What's even more frustrating is when a user 
> files/follows a bug, gets a verification and target for a fix, and that 
> fix is subsequently ignored - two inter-related cases in point being 
> bugs 724293 and 74346.
> 
> It seemed the team understands what is going on here, targeted a fix for 
> SM 2.10 (if "Milestone" means the same thing in the SM software world as 
> it does in mine), and yet both are *still* broken in SM 2.16.x.
> 
> And somewhere along the way I even pointed out that the Profile Manager 
> appears to be using two differing code branches, given that invoke at 
> startup displays a newer graphic and Change Profile displays the old 
> NS-like graphic.

I suspect that very few people run multiple profiles, so I can see why
that might also be a low priority item. Certainly no one I know outside
of the tech field does, anyway.

> So...I can't use Profile Manager *and* the bug for not following the 
> on-disk path are still broke 6-odd releases post target and remain so.
> 
> Granted, this isn't as "simple" a fix as the under-drawn Password drop 
> down, but it's longevity is impressive...

It's just not a priority, I guess. And I can sort of understand it.
USENET predates Mozilla by a lot of years, so most people on USENET were
already fluent with another reader long ago. And newbies to USENET
nowadays are more likely to think that Google Groups *is* USENET, so I
just don't see a lot of people rallying to get the crosspost management
that I would like to see. Like me, if crosspost management is important,
they just continue to use a separate newsreader. It would be nice to not
have to have separate programs for email and USENET, but there you have
it.

-- 
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Daniel]

Jim G. wrote:

David E. Ross sent the following on Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:28:47 -0700:

On 3/11/13 5:05 PM, Geoff Welsh wrote:

as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?
IDR,
GW



This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See .  Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it has not
yet been fixed.


Yes, this lack of adequate crossspost management has been an issue for
ages and is the main reason why I've never given up on Agent as my
newsreader. There are things about SeaMonkey and T-bird that I really
like, including some things that Agent can't be made to do, but this
crosspost business is a killer. Every once in a while, I'll switch to SM
or TB for a week or two until I once again get just too frustrated at
this, and then I go back to Agent again for newsgroups.


As I understand it, development of Thunderbird by Mozilla staff has, 
effectively, come to an end (only roughly yearly updates) and SeaMonkey 
is developed, basically, by a group of volunteers (who, presumably, have 
real day jobs to bring in the hard-earneds), I'm guessing there will be 
little development in e-mail-reader-type bugs!!


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.17 Build identifier: 20130224181913

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Re: Usenet in SM

[Rufus]

Jim G. wrote:

Rufus sent the following on Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:55:46 -0700:

Ray_Net wrote:

Daniel wrote, On 12/03/2013 10:37:

Daniel wrote:

Ant wrote:

On 3/11/2013 11:28 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is
there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?


This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See . Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it
has not
yet been fixed.


Wow, I guess no one cares to fix it? I just voted and subscribed.


and that would explain why I got an update email on this bug tonight!!


and a second one now!! At last, some activity!!


Anyway - who's care ? :-)
The problem is because SM development use the wrong way philosophy.
They need votes to correct a bug.
They don't need votes of implementing a new stuff.
In the real world, this is exactly the inverse:
Votes are needed to implement a new gadget, if no vote, there is nobody
interesting, so don't spend time to create the not needed stuff.
For bugs, votes are not needed, because each bug needs to be resolved -
thus creating a more perfect product.


Second.


I suspect that they'd love to do it that way if they had an unlimited
number of people working on development, but it's probably an hours in
the day sort of thing. I do agree, though, that it's hard to know what
matters to people when you don't make it easy for them to (a) know that
voting exists and (b) make it easy to get to the voting site.



"Fixing" isn't "development".  "Fixing" is fixing.  Baseline 
functionality should work, and continue to work, at a minimum.


I think the most annoying bugs are things that seem simpler than 
developing new capability.  What's even more frustrating is when a user 
files/follows a bug, gets a verification and target for a fix, and that 
fix is subsequently ignored - two inter-related cases in point being 
bugs 724293 and 74346.


It seemed the team understands what is going on here, targeted a fix for 
SM 2.10 (if "Milestone" means the same thing in the SM software world as 
it does in mine), and yet both are *still* broken in SM 2.16.x.


And somewhere along the way I even pointed out that the Profile Manager 
appears to be using two differing code branches, given that invoke at 
startup displays a newer graphic and Change Profile displays the old 
NS-like graphic.


So...I can't use Profile Manager *and* the bug for not following the 
on-disk path are still broke 6-odd releases post target and remain so.


Granted, this isn't as "simple" a fix as the under-drawn Password drop 
down, but it's longevity is impressive...


--
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

David E. Ross sent the following on Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:28:47 -0700:
> On 3/11/13 5:05 PM, Geoff Welsh wrote:
> > as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from 
> > EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.
> > 
> > When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is there a 
> > setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as 
> > read in both groups?
> > IDR,
> > GW
> > 
> 
> This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
> See .  Since this
> worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it has not
> yet been fixed.

Yes, this lack of adequate crossspost management has been an issue for
ages and is the main reason why I've never given up on Agent as my
newsreader. There are things about SeaMonkey and T-bird that I really
like, including some things that Agent can't be made to do, but this
crosspost business is a killer. Every once in a while, I'll switch to SM
or TB for a week or two until I once again get just too frustrated at
this, and then I go back to Agent again for newsgroups.

-- 
Jim G.
[Insert your favorite clever tagline here.]
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Jim G .]

Rufus sent the following on Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:55:46 -0700:
> Ray_Net wrote:
> > Daniel wrote, On 12/03/2013 10:37:
> >> Daniel wrote:
> >>> Ant wrote:
>  On 3/11/2013 11:28 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:
> 
> >> as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
> >> EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.
> >>
> >> When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is
> >> there a
> >> setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
> >> read in both groups?
> >
> > This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
> > See . Since this
> > worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it
> > has not
> > yet been fixed.
> 
>  Wow, I guess no one cares to fix it? I just voted and subscribed.
> >>>
> >>> and that would explain why I got an update email on this bug tonight!!
> >>
> >> and a second one now!! At last, some activity!!
> >>
> > Anyway - who's care ? :-)
> > The problem is because SM development use the wrong way philosophy.
> > They need votes to correct a bug.
> > They don't need votes of implementing a new stuff.
> > In the real world, this is exactly the inverse:
> > Votes are needed to implement a new gadget, if no vote, there is nobody
> > interesting, so don't spend time to create the not needed stuff.
> > For bugs, votes are not needed, because each bug needs to be resolved -
> > thus creating a more perfect product.
> 
> Second.

I suspect that they'd love to do it that way if they had an unlimited
number of people working on development, but it's probably an hours in
the day sort of thing. I do agree, though, that it's hard to know what
matters to people when you don't make it easy for them to (a) know that
voting exists and (b) make it easy to get to the voting site.

-- 
Jim G.
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Rufus]

Ray_Net wrote:

Daniel wrote, On 12/03/2013 10:37:

Daniel wrote:

Ant wrote:

On 3/11/2013 11:28 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is
there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?


This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See . Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it
has not
yet been fixed.


Wow, I guess no one cares to fix it? I just voted and subscribed.


and that would explain why I got an update email on this bug tonight!!


and a second one now!! At last, some activity!!


Anyway - who's care ? :-)
The problem is because SM development use the wrong way philosophy.
They need votes to correct a bug.
They don't need votes of implementing a new stuff.
In the real world, this is exactly the inverse:
Votes are needed to implement a new gadget, if no vote, there is nobody
interesting, so don't spend time to create the not needed stuff.
For bugs, votes are not needed, because each bug needs to be resolved -
thus creating a more perfect product.


Second.

--
 - Rufus
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Ray_Net]

Daniel wrote, On 12/03/2013 10:37:

Daniel wrote:

Ant wrote:

On 3/11/2013 11:28 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is
there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?


This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See . Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it 
has not

yet been fixed.


Wow, I guess no one cares to fix it? I just voted and subscribed.


and that would explain why I got an update email on this bug tonight!!


and a second one now!! At last, some activity!!


Anyway - who's care ? :-)
The problem is because SM development use the wrong way philosophy.
They need votes to correct a bug.
They don't need votes of implementing a new stuff.
In the real world, this is exactly the inverse:
Votes are needed to implement a new gadget, if no vote, there is nobody 
interesting, so don't spend time to create the not needed stuff.
For bugs, votes are not needed, because each bug needs to be resolved - 
thus creating a more perfect product.

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Re: Usenet in SM

[Daniel]

Daniel wrote:

Ant wrote:

On 3/11/2013 11:28 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is
there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?


This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See .  Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it has not
yet been fixed.


Wow, I guess no one cares to fix it? I just voted and subscribed.


and that would explain why I got an update email on this bug tonight!!


and a second one now!! At last, some activity!!

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.17 Build identifier: 20130224181913

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Re: Usenet in SM

[Daniel]

Ant wrote:

On 3/11/2013 11:28 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?


This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See .  Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it has not
yet been fixed.


Wow, I guess no one cares to fix it? I just voted and subscribed.


and that would explain why I got an update email on this bug tonight!!

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.16

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Re: Usenet in SM

[Ant]

On 3/11/2013 11:28 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?


This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See .  Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it has not
yet been fixed.


Wow, I guess no one cares to fix it? I just voted and subscribed.
--
"She's got ants in her pants." --unknown
   /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
  / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
 | |o   o| |
\ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
 ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
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Re: Usenet in SM

[Geoff Welsh]

David E. Ross wrote:

On 3/11/13 5:05 PM, Geoff Welsh wrote:

as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.

When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is there a
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as
read in both groups?
IDR,
GW



This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See .  Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it has not
yet been fixed.


jeezis, good memory,

thanks,
GW
(Maybe I'll unpack my OS9 machine and run Netcape 4.7)
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Re: Usenet in SM

[David E. Ross]

On 3/11/13 5:05 PM, Geoff Welsh wrote:
> as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from 
> EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.
> 
> When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is there a 
> setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as 
> read in both groups?
> IDR,
> GW
> 

This is long-standing bug #43278, first submitted over 12 years ago.
See .  Since this
worked quite well with Netscape 4.7, I really do not know why it has not
yet been fixed.

-- 
David E. Ross


Are taxes too high in the U.S.?  Check the bar graph
at  to see.
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Usenet in SM

[Geoff Welsh]

as someone here recently turned me onto free Usenet from 
EternalSeptember, I'm following several groups again.


When a post is cross-posted to two groups, and I follow both, is there a 
setting I can tweak so that reading the post in one group marks it as 
read in both groups?

IDR,
GW
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