[Sursound] Array for sound field recording and extend the sound image

[Chenrilin]

Hello, all
I have designed an array of four microphones to get B-format signal. The 
coordinates of mics
are mic1 (-d/2,0), mic2 (d/2,0), mic3 (0, d/2), mic4 (0,-d/2),and d is about 
18mm.Every opposite
pair can be composed into a first order differential array and get a pattern of 
figure 8. So the X
component can be got from mic1 and mic2, the Y  component can be get from mic3 
and mic4.
The W component equals to the mean of signals from four mics. Then I decoded 
them to get the
feeding signal for four loudspeakers, and used HRTFs to get the left and right 
signal for headphone.


1.   Furthermore, the experiment is made that a person was walking around 
the array and say

something in an office. After processed by the method above, I find there is a 
problem that

the speech sounds like a person talking and moving around my head but very near 
to my ears

and head. What is the main reasons for this problem? Is there any suggestion to 
make it sounds

much further from the ears and head.


2.   Do I need to add the early reflection and late reverberation to the 
four loudspeakers? In my

understanding, the recording signal of array has included the reflection and 
late reverberation

signal of the office. If add another reflection signal to the feeding signal of 
loudspeakers, they

will contain two kind of reflection signal. Is my understanding right? 
Apologize for this simple question.




Thanks advanced.


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Re: [Sursound] Array for sound field recording and extend the sound image

[Michael Chapman]

> Hello, all
[ ... ]
> The W component equals to the mean of signals from four mics. Then I
> decoded them to get the
> feeding signal for four loudspeakers, and used HRTFs to get the left and
> right signal for headphone.
>
>
> 1.   Furthermore, the experiment is made that a person was walking
> around the array and say
> something in an office. After processed by the method above, I find there
> is a problem that
> the speech sounds like a person talking and moving around my head but very
> near to my ears [ ... ]

Do you get the same problem if you playback through four loudspeakers, or
is it only after HRTF manipulation ?

(I cannot see how it would cause this, but: Have you controlled to see if
W is at the correct level compared with X and Y (depends a lot on the
polar pattern of your mic's). Probably would need to analyse some
recordings of 'point' sources to check that.)

Michael


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Re: [Sursound] A proposal for an Ambisonics based 3D audio codec, MPEG/ITU style...

[Michael Chapman]

> The current situation at MPEG:
>
> http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygroups/com16/video/Pages/jctvc.aspx
>
> Next meetings:
>
>> * Geneva, Switzerland, October 2013 (tentative)
>> * Vienna, Austria, 27 July - 2 August 2013 (tentative)
>> * Incheon, Korea, 20-26 April 2013 (tentative)
>> * Geneva, Switzerland, 14-23 January 2013 (tentative)
>>
>

Possibly not relevant in these days of (relatively) cheap air travel, but:
I am near Geneva,
colleagues at Graz are near Vienna,
_if_ physical presence is a factor.

But this is just 'mechanics' ... and should not distract from the main
thrust of Stefan's call !

Michael




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Re: [Sursound] Array for sound field recording and extend the sound image

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Sun, Jan 06, 2013 at 09:18:43AM +, Chenrilin wrote:
> Hello, all
> I have designed an array of four microphones to get B-format signal. The 
> coordinates of mics
> are mic1 (-d/2,0), mic2 (d/2,0), mic3 (0, d/2), mic4 (0,-d/2),and d is about 
> 18mm.Every opposite
> pair can be composed into a first order differential array and get a pattern 
> of figure 8. So the X
> component can be got from mic1 and mic2, the Y  component can be get from 
> mic3 and mic4.
> The W component equals to the mean of signals from four mics. Then I decoded 
> them to get the
> feeding signal for four loudspeakers, and used HRTFs to get the left and 
> right signal for headphone.
> 
> 
> 1.   Furthermore, the experiment is made that a person was walking around 
> the array and say
> something in an office. After processed by the method above, I find there is 
> a problem that
> the speech sounds like a person talking and moving around my head but very 
> near to my ears
> and head. What is the main reasons for this problem? Is there any suggestion 
> to make it sounds
> much further from the ears and head.
> 
> 2.   Do I need to add the early reflection and late reverberation to the 
> four loudspeakers? In my
> understanding, the recording signal of array has included the reflection and 
> late reverberation
> signal of the office. If add another reflection signal to the feeding signal 
> of loudspeakers, they
> will contain two kind of reflection signal. Is my understanding right? 
> Apologize for this simple question.

We'll need a bit more information.

* Are the mics omnis, or directional ? If directional, what
  are the directions ?

* How exactly to you compute X and Y frm the mic signals ?

* Does the decoding work on speakers (without HRTF) ?

Ciao,

-- 
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Re: [Sursound] A proposal for an Ambisonics based 3D audio codec, MPEG/ITU style...

[Stefan Schreiber]

Michael Chapman wrote:


The current situation at MPEG:

http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygroups/com16/video/Pages/jctvc.aspx

Next meetings:

   


   * Geneva, Switzerland, October 2013 (tentative)
   * Vienna, Austria, 27 July - 2 August 2013 (tentative)
   * Incheon, Korea, 20-26 April 2013 (tentative)
   * Geneva, Switzerland, 14-23 January 2013 (tentative)

 



Possibly not relevant in these days of (relatively) cheap air travel, but:
I am near Geneva,
colleagues at Graz are near Vienna,
_if_ physical presence is a factor.

But this is just 'mechanics' ... and should not distract from the main
thrust of Stefan's call !

Michael



 

I think it would be a < great > idea if some people like you would show 
up, because others ARE there and won't take "our" case.


After reading all this Auro-3D/Barco stuff: It really seems they have 
invented 3D audio, and I am scratching my head in despair... :-)



Somebody should also tell them  that decoding to binaural/motion 
compensated binaural is of course possible and probably < available >, 
because this is currently an important topic. (If you can play surround 
/3D audio on some of all these trillions of mobile devices, surround of 
any kind ain't be a niche.)



Thanks for your posting, very good point...

Stefan

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Re: [Sursound] Make HOA count

[Stefan Schreiber]

gregory.pall...@orange.com wrote:


Hello,
I'm new to this group (even if my colleague Jerome (Daniel) shares sometimes 
info about it) so I hope you will excuse my usage of this list for the 
following information and questions ...
The MPEG audio group is about to start a standardization process in order to 
create a 3D audio codec.
As 3D audio experts, you are welcome to assist freely to the MPEG-H 3D Audio 
Workshop in Stockholm on July the 18th (all details here: 
http://www.audioresearchlabs.com/mpeg-h-workshop/101-3D-AudioWorkshop.pdf)
This codec should have the ability to flexibly render an audio program to an 
arbitrary number of loudspeakers with arbitrary configurations.
I think it could be a good opportunity to make it also support HOA format (as input of 
the audio encoder, output of the audio decoder, or both), and not only classical 
"multichannel" formats such as 5.1, 7.1, 10.2, 22.2...
In this context, could you please send an email before July 11th to 
hoamilit...@gmail.com indicating in just several 
sentences:
 



(Was July 2012)

Just some actualized information: The next 15 Dreamworks movies will 
actually present audio in 11.1. (Auro-3D 11.1, which used a second 5.0 
ring at about 30º elevation, and an additional top/head channel, which 
they call "3rd level". Corrections on my crude infos always welcome...)


Best,

Stefan Schreiber

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Re: [Sursound] A proposal for an Ambisonics based 3D audio codec, MPEG/ITU style...

[Michael Chapman]

OK, Stefan, I'll look at my diary ;-(>

But

1) January 14-23 is ten days ... it is alo both "tentative" and 'next' week;

2 How does all this tye in with "the MPEG-H 3D Audio Workshop" (see copied
email below).
Whether related, or not, it would seem worth involving Gregory Pallone. If
Orange (aka France Telecom) have a commercial interest in ambisonics then
we have an ally.

Michael



Stefan Schreiber wrote:
> Michael Chapman wrote:
>
>>>The current situation at MPEG:
>>>
>>>http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygroups/com16/video/Pages/jctvc.aspx
>>>
>>>Next meetings:
>>>
>>>
>>>
* Geneva, Switzerland, October 2013 (tentative)
* Vienna, Austria, 27 July - 2 August 2013 (tentative)
* Incheon, Korea, 20-26 April 2013 (tentative)
* Geneva, Switzerland, 14-23 January 2013 (tentative)



>>
>>Possibly not relevant in these days of (relatively) cheap air travel,
>> but:
>>I am near Geneva,
>>colleagues at Graz are near Vienna,
>>_if_ physical presence is a factor.
>>
>>But this is just 'mechanics' ... and should not distract from the main
thrust of Stefan's call !
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I think it would be a < great > idea if some people like you would show
up, because others ARE there and won't take "our" case.
>
> After reading all this Auro-3D/Barco stuff: It really seems they have
invented 3D audio, and I am scratching my head in despair... :-)
>
>
> Somebody should also tell them  that decoding to binaural/motion
compensated binaural is of course possible and probably < available >,
because this is currently an important topic. (If you can play surround
/3D audio on some of all these trillions of mobile devices, surround of
any kind ain't be a niche.)
>
>
> Thanks for your posting, very good point...
>
> Stefan
>
>


 Original Message 
Subject: [Sursound] Make HOA count
From:gregory.pall...@orange.com
Date:Thu, July 5, 2012 11:33 pm
To:  "sursound@music.vt.edu" 
--

Hello,
I'm new to this group (even if my colleague Jerome (Daniel) shares
sometimes info about it) so I hope you will excuse my usage of this list
for the following information and questions ...
The MPEG audio group is about to start a standardization process in order
to create a 3D audio codec.
As 3D audio experts, you are welcome to assist freely to the MPEG-H 3D
Audio Workshop in Stockholm on July the 18th (all details here:
http://www.audioresearchlabs.com/mpeg-h-workshop/101-3D-AudioWorkshop.pdf)
This codec should have the ability to flexibly render an audio program to
an arbitrary number of loudspeakers with arbitrary configurations. I think
it could be a good opportunity to make it also support HOA format (as
input of the audio encoder, output of the audio decoder, or both), and not
only classical "multichannel" formats such as 5.1, 7.1, 10.2, 22.2... In
this context, could you please send an email before July 11th to
hoamilit...@gmail.com indicating in just
several sentences:

-  if you support HOA format as an input of the future 3D audio
encoder, and why (what use-cases?)

-  if you support HOA format as an output of the future 3D audio
decoder, and why (what use-cases?)

-  please indicate also what is your point of view: content
creator, capturing or rendering device manufacturer, researcher, developer
...
Thank you for sharing this valuable information which should help in
militating in favor of HOA, and sorry for people not interested in my
message.
Gregory

PS: Don't hesitate to forward this message to
people/organizations/companies who could also be interested in attending
the workshop and/or helping to militate in favor of HOA.


_

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Re: [Sursound] A proposal for an Ambisonics based 3D audio codec, MPEG/ITU style...

[Stefan Schreiber]

Michael Chapman wrote:


OK, Stefan, I'll look at my diary ;-(>

But

1) January 14-23 is ten days ... it is alo both "tentative" and 'next' week;

2 How does all this tye in with "the MPEG-H 3D Audio Workshop" (see copied
email below).


 

1) I am sorry, the date for the MPEG meetings seem to differ. (The 
JCT/ITU HEVC meetings might have a different schedule, oops...)


Here the current schedules:

http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/meetings

http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/meetings/103

Date: 
Monday, 21 January 2013 to Friday, 25 January 2013
Venue: 
CICG

rue de Varembé 17
1211  Geneve
Switzerland




See also agenda: HEVC is session nr. 21-22, 3D Audio nr. 23.

2) I didn't want to confuse, but I gave an update to possible channel 
layouts. 10.2 is actually offtopic, 11.1 not?



Mr. Pallone: Could you give some hint on which day/time the 3D audio 
session is scheduled?



Thanks for the valuable feedback

Stefan


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Re: [Sursound] Array for sound field recording and extend the sound image

[Chenrilin]

>Do you get the same problem if you playback through four loudspeakers, or

>is it only after HRTF manipulation ?


>We'll need a bit more information.



>* Are the mics omnis, or directional ? If directional, what

>  are the directions ?



>* How exactly to you compute X and Y frm the mic signals ?



>* Does the decoding work on speakers (without HRTF) ?



The mics are omnis. And it can work on speakers well. So I think

X and Y computed is exactly for decoder.




华为技术有限公司 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
[Company_logo]

Phone:
Fax:
Mobile:
Email:
地址：深圳市龙岗区坂田华为基地 邮编：518129
Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
Bantian, Longgang District,Shenzhen 518129, P.R.China
http://www.huawei.com

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的信息。如果您错收了本邮件，请您立即电话或邮件通知发件人并删除本邮件！
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is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any 
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