Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 126, Issue 7

[aswath Prabhu]

 > appropriate channel mask.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Which browsers have you tested, Paul? How does one set up a
> browser
> > > > > > to recognise 4.0?
> > > > >
> > > > > In Windows: IE, Edge, Firefox, Chrome, Opera.  The point is that
> they
> > > > > all use the Windows default audio output, which can be set up to be
> > > > > multichannel with a range of layouts - and Windows will do the most
> > > > > appropriate mixing to match the channels between the input and the
> > > > > available speakers.  Once set up it all just works.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Paul Hodges
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
> > > www.magikdoor.net
> > > +44(0)7555784775
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>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> www.magikdoor.net
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:18:21 -0500
From: Jeanine Cowen mailto:jco...@berklee.edu>>
To: sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics
Message-ID: 
<8bd3d3fe-4c37-4588-bcde-19f44282b...@berklee.edu<mailto:8bd3d3fe-4c37-4588-bcde-19f44282b...@berklee.edu>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Another web-based player caught my eye the other day. Using WebVR it is 
compatible with the stated browsers fo that protocol and also provides for 
rotating in the image.

http://labs.plan8.se/ambisonics-webplayer/ 
<http://labs.plan8.se/ambisonics-webplayer/>

Given that it is based on Omnitone it should be relatively straightforward to 
adapt for a personal website.

JC


Jeanine Cowen
Professor, Film Scoring
Berklee College of Music
jco...@berklee.edu<mailto:jco...@berklee.edu> 
<mailto:jco...@berklee.edu<mailto:jco...@berklee.edu>>
617-747-8675 office
617-332-2970 cell

http://www.berklee.edu <http://www.berklee.edu/>

> On Jan 10, 2019, at 12:00 PM, 
> sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu> wrote:
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 15:57:19 +
> From: aswath Prabhu mailto:aswath...@hotmail.com> 
> <mailto:aswath...@hotmail.com<mailto:aswath...@hotmail.com>>>
> To: "sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu> 
> <mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>>" 
> mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu> 
> <mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>>>
> Subject: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics
> Message-ID:
> 
> mailto:sn6pr04mb4445eabdc18ef13eae95c415e0...@sn6pr04mb4445.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
>  
> <mailto:sn6pr04mb4445eabdc18ef13eae95c415e0...@sn6pr04mb4445.namprd04.prod.outlook.com<mailto:sn6pr04mb4445eabdc18ef13eae95c415e0...@sn6pr04mb4445.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>>>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Good day to you all,
>
> I would like to know as to how to publish the audio that you make in 
> ambisonics on the web.
>
> If i have a stereo file, its easy to upload to Soundcloud, Bandcamp etc. But 
> am not really sure if there is any online player or player to embed in a 
> website that can play B format WAV files.
>
> I guess for videos its only Youtube 360 or facebook. I mean, can i have 
> surround sound audio in a video and upload it on any of the video sites like 
> vimeo, dailymotion, youtube etc. when i mean surround, I mean using 
> ambisonics!!
>
> Please advice.
>
> Thank you
>
> Aswath Prabhu

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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 20:37:19 -0500
From: Marc Lavall?e mailto:m...@hacklava.net>>
To: sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics
Message-ID: 
<7b731c49-edca-4f76-adc4-ce91af559...@hacklava.net<mailto:7b731c49-edca-4f76-adc4-ce91af559...@hacklava.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Back then (4 years ago) I made a script to create compressed version of
ambisonics files from source .amb files. It was rendering m4a and opus
files with any numbers of channels (like 3 channels for horizontal-only
FOA). It was using the channelx and interlx utils from the MCTools suite
to extract and reassemble channels in intermediate files. Final m4a
files were compressed using the fdkaac tool from Fraunhofer. So only
libre/open tools were used, on Linux (the same should be possible on OSX
and Windows).

Marc

Le 2019-01-11 ? 8:53 a.m., Paul Hodges a ?crit?:
> --On 10 January 2019 22:44 +0100 David Pickett 
> mailto:d...@fugato.com>> wrote:
>
>> I agree. But it seems that the only way I have of making aac mp4
>> files is to make them 5.1.
> I use Wavelab, but that's expensive. Richard Dobson's MCTools suite pf
> programs would enable one to remove the unneeded channels and set an
> appropriate channel mask.
>
>
>> Which browsers have you tested, Paul? How does one set up a browser
>> to recognise 4.0?
> In Windows: IE, Edge, Firefox, Chrome, Opera.  The point is that they
> all use the Windows default audio output, which can be set up to be
> multichannel with a range of layouts - and Windows will do the most
> appropriate mixing to match the channels between the input and the
> available speakers.  Once set up it all just works.
>
> Paul
>


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Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 2019-01-12 à 12:26 p.m., aswath Prabhu a écrit :


Re: Publishing music in ambisonics


This is further to my post asking about online portal to stream and post 
ambisonic content.

Well, i searched a little and found this... Looks like development has stopped 
but i guess it can be further developed from the code available.

I havent used it but from what i see, you can play files from a particular URL. 
So that helps. if its successful, then all we need is a hosting site to host 
ambisonic content created by individuals and who knows, it might evolve into a 
radio channel...


https://web.archive.org/web/20070705153625/http://www.ambisonia.com/wiki/index.php/Playback_Software


Thanks

Aswath Prabhu


Aswath, I partly rescued ambisonia.com and I acquired the domain. So 
what's now on display at ambisonia.com is a static version of the old 
site, without the wiki and other collaborative tools. I also created an 
experimental player on ambisonic.xyz, using the same content than 
ambisonia.com, reduced to 3 channels (for horizontal only FOA) and 
compressed with the Opus codec. Both sites are on the same servers. My 
plan (at the time) was to revive ambisonia.com as a collaborative 
publishing platform, with a "revolutionary" web player. I did it before 
Google and Facebook created their ambisonics publishing platforms (and 
tools). I think that my project is still valid today, so maybe I'll 
continue (with a better plan)...


What seems to be still missing (but I could be wrong), is a "standard" 
standalone ambisonics audio player. If such a player could play and 
decode ambisonics audio streams (hosted on a audio streaming web site), 
then it'd be an excellent start. Something similar to what audio 
streaming is for stereo, and that we take for granted. What went wrong 
with surround sound in general is still a mystery to me... But there's hope.


Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[David Pickett]

At 20:33 12-01-19, Marc wrote:

What seems to be still missing (but I could be wrong), is a 
"standard" standalone ambisonics audio player. If such a player 
could play and decode ambisonics audio streams (hosted on a audio 
streaming web site), then it'd be an excellent start. Something 
similar to what audio streaming is for stereo, and that we take for 
granted. What went wrong with surround sound in general is still a 
mystery to me... But there's hope.


If I understand you correctly, the idea is to stream WXY (to keep it 
simple) and have this decoded in the browser, rather than 4.0 
directly. This seems to me to be akin to using M&S files rather than 
L&R. It involves a further layer of complication at the client end, 
and I am not sure of the advantage, other than it reduces data 
bandwith by 25%; but bandwidth is surely not a problem these days.


But I am always ready to be corrected!

David

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Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 2019-01-12 à 3:03 p.m., David Pickett a écrit :


At 20:33 12-01-19, Marc wrote:

What seems to be still missing (but I could be wrong), is a 
"standard" standalone ambisonics audio player. If such a player could 
play and decode ambisonics audio streams (hosted on a audio streaming 
web site), then it'd be an excellent start. Something similar to what 
audio streaming is for stereo, and that we take for granted. What 
went wrong with surround sound in general is still a mystery to me... 
But there's hope.


If I understand you correctly, the idea is to stream WXY (to keep it 
simple) and have this decoded in the browser, rather than 4.0 
directly. This seems to me to be akin to using M&S files rather than 
L&R. It involves a further layer of complication at the client end, 
and I am not sure of the advantage, other than it reduces data 
bandwith by 25%; but bandwidth is surely not a problem these days.


But I am always ready to be corrected!


Decoding in the browser would be for casual use, mostly for binaural 
listening, but decoding to speaker arrays would be nice, for exemple 
with 5.1 system (as a 4.1 system with a square or rectangular setup). 
Decoding from a desktop (or mobile) app would be a better start, like in 
the good old days of "helper apps" for the first web browsers. I guess 
that ambisonics support could be added to VLC or Volumio, or a custom 
multi-platform app. Internet radio stations exists because stereo 
streams can be played on any audio player that can connect to the 
Internet, so the same could be done for ambisonics. Is it just wishful 
thinking?


Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I improved my test / demo site www.ohti.xyz today.

I added the demo for Omnitone SOA and TOA playback, with drag and drop an
rotation, local file playback.

It works in Chrome on my 3 year old Lenovo yoga tablet 2.

The examples I have there is 16 channel 24 bit TOA encoded in opus.

The server is somwhere in Germany 😎 I think.

By the way VLC supports Ambisonics in the Facebook format (I think).

Bosse



On 12 Jan 2019 21:52, "Marc Lavallée"  wrote:

Le 2019-01-12 à 3:03 p.m., David Pickett a écrit :

> At 20:33 12-01-19, Marc wrote:
>
>> What seems to be still missing (but I could be wrong), is a
>> "standard" standalone ambisonics audio player. If such a player could
>> play and decode ambisonics audio streams (hosted on a audio streaming
>> web site), then it'd be an excellent start. Something similar to what
>> audio streaming is for stereo, and that we take for granted. What
>> went wrong with surround sound in general is still a mystery to me...
>> But there's hope.
>
> If I understand you correctly, the idea is to stream WXY (to keep it
> simple) and have this decoded in the browser, rather than 4.0
> directly. This seems to me to be akin to using M&S files rather than
> L&R. It involves a further layer of complication at the client end,
> and I am not sure of the advantage, other than it reduces data
> bandwith by 25%; but bandwidth is surely not a problem these days.
>
> But I am always ready to be corrected!

Decoding in the browser would be for casual use, mostly for binaural
listening, but decoding to speaker arrays would be nice, for exemple
with 5.1 system (as a 4.1 system with a square or rectangular setup).
Decoding from a desktop (or mobile) app would be a better start, like in
the good old days of "helper apps" for the first web browsers. I guess
that ambisonics support could be added to VLC or Volumio, or a custom
multi-platform app. Internet radio stations exists because stereo
streams can be played on any audio player that can connect to the
Internet, so the same could be done for ambisonics. Is it just wishful
thinking?


Marc


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Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 2019-01-12 à 4:40 p.m., Bo-Erik Sandholm a écrit :


I improved my test / demo site www.ohti.xyz today.

I added the demo for Omnitone SOA and TOA playback, with drag and drop an
rotation, local file playback.

It works in Chrome on my 3 year old Lenovo yoga tablet 2.

The examples I have there is 16 channel 24 bit TOA encoded in opus.

The server is somwhere in Germany 😎 I think.


The 16-channel HOA demos are sounding great! I wonder how better it 
would be with a personal HRTF...



By the way VLC supports Ambisonics in the Facebook format (I think).


That's good news (I'm a bit late learning it now). I installed VLC 3.0.6 
but I don't know where to get sample files (or streams) in the Facebook 
format. Does it also support Ambix and Opus files?


Marc


Bosse



On 12 Jan 2019 21:52, "Marc Lavallée"  wrote:

Le 2019-01-12 à 3:03 p.m., David Pickett a écrit :


At 20:33 12-01-19, Marc wrote:


What seems to be still missing (but I could be wrong), is a
"standard" standalone ambisonics audio player. If such a player could
play and decode ambisonics audio streams (hosted on a audio streaming
web site), then it'd be an excellent start. Something similar to what
audio streaming is for stereo, and that we take for granted. What
went wrong with surround sound in general is still a mystery to me...
But there's hope.

If I understand you correctly, the idea is to stream WXY (to keep it
simple) and have this decoded in the browser, rather than 4.0
directly. This seems to me to be akin to using M&S files rather than
L&R. It involves a further layer of complication at the client end,
and I am not sure of the advantage, other than it reduces data
bandwith by 25%; but bandwidth is surely not a problem these days.

But I am always ready to be corrected!

Decoding in the browser would be for casual use, mostly for binaural
listening, but decoding to speaker arrays would be nice, for exemple
with 5.1 system (as a 4.1 system with a square or rectangular setup).
Decoding from a desktop (or mobile) app would be a better start, like in
the good old days of "helper apps" for the first web browsers. I guess
that ambisonics support could be added to VLC or Volumio, or a custom
multi-platform app. Internet radio stations exists because stereo
streams can be played on any audio player that can connect to the
Internet, so the same could be done for ambisonics. Is it just wishful
thinking?


Marc


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Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Stefan Schreiber]

Citando Marc Lavallée :


Le 2019-01-12 à 3:03 p.m., David Pickett a écrit :


At 20:33 12-01-19, Marc wrote:

What seems to be still missing (but I could be wrong), is a  
"standard" standalone ambisonics audio player. If such a player  
could play and decode ambisonics audio streams (hosted on a audio  
streaming web site), then it'd be an excellent start. Something  
similar to what audio streaming is for stereo, and that we take  
for granted. What went wrong with surround sound in general is  
still a mystery to me... But there's hope.


If I understand you correctly, the idea is to stream WXY (to keep  
it simple) and have this decoded in the browser, rather than 4.0  
directly. This seems to me to be akin to using M&S files rather  
than L&R. It involves a further layer of complication at the client  
end, and I am not sure of the advantage, other than it reduces data  
bandwith by 25%; but bandwidth is surely not a problem these days.




 But I am always ready to be corrected!


- -

Decoding in the browser would be for casual use, mostly for binaural  
listening, but decoding to speaker arrays would be nice, for exemple  
with 5.1 system (as a 4.1 system with a square or rectangular setup).


- - -

Why would you not be able to decode ambisonics to a speaker array (for  
example 4.0 or 5.1), <  from a browser >?



Maybe this is no common option yet today, but why not in the future?

If a browser is able to support 5.1 (stereophonic surround), decoding  
of ambisonics to some 5.1 system should actually be no problem. (via  
WebAudio)


The usual way to support decoding of ambisonics (only) to binaural is  
because the normal application case of ambisonics is nowadays to be  
some “ audio track” for VR or 360° video.


Right?!

I don’t think this is just an abstract discussion, by the way. Maybe  
such decoding functions could added to Omnitone, for example? 


There are strong indications that support for surround sound is  
getting stronger, finally. We might be able to help a bit, via feature  
request and own solutions.


Best regards

Stefan
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[Sursound] AR mobile app with "pseudo" spatial audio

[Guy Story]

We recently developed an AR app for my rock band, and we took a shot at a
spatial audio experience.  We used the stems from the studio recording of a
song, associated them spatially with band member animations that the user
places in the world, and then simulate spatial audio by manipulating volume
and L/R placement as the user moves in and around the band members as the
song plays.  I'd be interested in this group's reaction to the effect:


*STORYTOWN AR Companion*
iOS App Store
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/storytown-ar-companion/id1410280692?mt=8

Google Play Store
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.storytownband.storytownar

The feature is found in the "Where You Want" option on the home screen.
Thanks.

 Guy
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