Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

This is still interesting, I have been thinking about how to implement a 4 
channel recorder and in the process I belive my idea might be good enough for a 
16 channel player also.

I think we should split the problem in to 2 solutions.
1 The player with support for 16 digital output channels.
2 Digital to analog converter.

And there have to be a media carrier  in between.
I see 2 alternatives firewire, usb 2 with  Audio Class 2.0 or the oldie ADAT.
 - Firewire  works, but 8 or 16 channel sound cards are expensive or hard to 
DIY.
 - getting 16 channels of sound over USB in sync is not easy I think.
 - ADAT oldie but goodie if you are content with 48kHz 24 bits, its good enough 
for me.
 Implement with dual ADAT,
 The AL1401 (sender) and AL1402(receiver) +opto modules are now low cost 
components.
 
For Playback 2 ADA8000 could be used for  balanced outputs not really high cost 
as second hand or even as new,
 or we might even build a card with dual adat input to 8 spdif outs in a Xilinx 
CPLD if we want to carry digital stereo signals to power amplifiers.
Using modules from   
http://opencores.org/project,adat_optical_feed_forward_receiver , 
http://opencores.org/project,aes3rx  and 
http://opencores.org/project,madi_receiver 

Taking ideas from the ADA8000 schematic it should be possible to reimplement an 
ADAT 8 or 16 channel ADC with several choices in how to implement the outputs.

I belive it is even possible to build a special version of ADAT ADC that can be 
optically chained and extract the wanted channels out of eight  in each ADC.

I belive 48 kHz 24 bit is definitely good enough for a player, 16 bits should 
also be good enough in praxis.

- Bosse
 








-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 6 juli 2012 09:52
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

Thanks to everyone who has already expressed interest! Definitely looking like 
it may be a go on the project. I'll keep sursound informed as I do preliminary 
studies this summer.

  Dave


On 05/07/2012 22:25, Gerard Lardner wrote:
> +1 here too.
>
> Gerard Lardner
>
> On 05/07/2012 14:41, Hugh Pyle wrote:
>> +1.  If you design a BeagleBone cape with 16 channels out (balanced 
>> +or
>> not, I don't really mind), or a dedicated system that includes the 
>> CPU, I'll want several :-)
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:16 AM, GP  wrote:
>>> Put me on your pre-order list already Dave! :-).
>>>
>>> Cheers Garth
>>> Sent on the Move
>>>
>>> On 05/07/2012, at 19:48, Dave Malham  wrote:
>>>
 Wow! Fantastic response .. lots to think about. Will let you know how I 
 get on. Part of the problem is hardware as I was unable (at the time I got 
 this board) to find a case with a HD Audio front panel so it currently 
 thinks it's running in AC97 mode, but I'm going to knock something up to 
 get round this. In the mean time I'm going to play with the suggestions 
 people have made (Puppy is currently booting).

 I'm also interested in the paper that Fernando gave us a link to. Although 
 I don't want to use the Mamba hardware, I _am_ interested in the 
 possibilities for a dedicated multichannel player for installation work 
 (another retirement project!) What I'm looking at at present is a 
 multichannel dac linked directly (not via USB or owt like that) to an Arm 
 processor that'll just play a multichannel file off of a USB stick or SD 
 card. For prototyping I'll be using a BeagleBone (as I definitely don't 
 want the extra bells and whistles of the BeagleBoard itself) - I'd prefer 
 to use the RPi but the chip used (at least, according to the manual) 
 appears to have a crippled McASP port that can only handle stereo, whereas 
 the ARM on the BeagleBone has a good enough implementation of McASP that 
 it can do 16 channels at 48k for definite (EAOE) and probably up to 96k 
 without too much trouble. If initial tests prove the concept, I'll look 
 KickStarter funding. The idea is to have an absolutely rock solid box that 
 just plays stuff without any of the hassles of systems relying on 
 computers (ha! That'll be the day))  The most it would have is an on/off 
 switch and play controls - but it would output up to 16 channels, 
 balanced, 24 bits.

Dave


 On 05/07/2012 07:50, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
> On 07/04/2012 06:40 PM, Marc Lavallée wrote:
>> Fernando Lopez-Lezcano  a écrit :
>>
>> Single board computers are interesting platforms to create 
>> dedicated ambisonic players.
> Indeed!
>
>> Let us know how the beagle board perform with a port of Planet 
>> CCRMA. ;-)
> I will, I just have to find the time to test. I'm curious whether a small 
> box like that can drive 1/2 of the Mamba box I was driving f

Re: [Sursound] Spherical speakers ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I remember seeing a DIY panel loudspeaker where element was places in the base 
of the loudspeaker,
The panels where expanding / shrinking the panel by pumping air through a slit 
from the base.
The panels where placed over a rectangular frame, maybe a more balloon formed 
frame can be constructed.

Maybe you can use a half inflated balloon as "panel", in that case the balloon 
should not need to be pressurized to keep its size.

- Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Fabio Kaiser
Sent: den 19 oktober 2012 14:36
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Spherical speakers ?

Google for dodecahedron loudspeakers. There you'll find some results. These 
kind of loudspeakers are used in room acoustic measurements. To goal is to 
excite the room without directional preference. But mostly the single speaker 
chassis cannot be driven independently. 

Nils already mentioned that in research there are some institutions 
investigation on this. The goal is basically radiation synthesis or 
beamforming. 
Look here: 
http://iaem.at/projekte/sphericalarrays/compact-spherical-loudspeaker-arrays/

best

Fabio


Am 18.10.2012 um 21:49 schrieb Augustine Leudar:

> Spherical speakers ?
> Are there such things ? - I tried googling to no avail. I dont mean 
> something like this :
> 
> http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2007/08/13/eole-system_48.jpg
> 
> I mean that instead of a cone there is a sphere, and able to emit 
> sound in all directions I'm guessing if it hasn't been done its 
> because it presents considerable technical difficulties - still ...
> -- next part -- An HTML attachment was 

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Re: [Sursound] Something for the Weekend - Commerical 3D sound

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

As this was in a session on next gen MPEG format, and header specification in 
MPEG among other things...
If I remembers correctly there was a possibility to specify that the audio 
format was 
- WFS
- 5.1 
- 7.1
- 22.1

No possibility to carry pure ambisonics using our defined Orders, as far as I 
could understand?

Maybe a few more defined to code which decoder to use to parse the sound 
streams, is it possible to squeeze in pure ambisonics within WFS decoding?

Here seems to be a lot of info from the ongoing standardization process, among 
other things a 3 D sound issue description.
http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/working_documents.php

It seemed a few of the participants where aware of Ambisonics but most  of them 
seamed very content to have channel/speaker view of the world.

There was on guy talking about a implementation for WFS in a cinema in 
California.

- Bo-Erik ( fixed my spelling errors in the subject :-)


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 11 oktober 2012 09:09
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Somting for the Weekend - Commerisal 3D sound

Hmm, just got round to looking at the Wittek/Thiele paper.
"Interesting" is right. I have the greatest of respect for both Helmut and 
Gunther, but paper isn't really up to their normal, very high, standards. Just 
two mentions of (higher order) Ambisonics and no inclusion of it in the 
comparison table ( Table 1). No clear indication of where the data for this 
"Comparison of stereo/surround-format profiles" came from (proper studies, a 
guess, references [1] and [9] ??) and, interestingly, Ambisonics (either POA or 
HOA) isn't included where it would have shown up very well, especially on the 
reproduction of elevation.

Some other interesting statements, for instance page 7, "Thus, 
stationary-source elevation cannot practically be accomplished" - which, as we 
know, is not so, _if_ you use soundfield reconstruction techniques such as 
Ambisonics (or 3-D WFS, or Holophonics, or...) and page 14 "One signal on more 
than two loudspeakers leads to coloration and thus should be avoided" - just on 
_more than_ two speakers? That should surely be "more than one".

   Ah well, at least it would get a sufficient number of speakers into people's 
homes to do Ambisonics with height with a re-jigging of their positions ;-)

  Dave

On 5 October 2012 18:33, Kees de Visser  wrote:
> On 5 Oct 2012, at 15:40, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
>> As I visited the MPEG Symposium in Stockholm this summer and listened 
>> to the 3D sound session I want to give a  pointer to 
>> http://www.auro-technologies.com/consumer/experience
>
> There's also some interesting info about Auro3D on Helmut ("Schoeps") 
> Wittek's website "hauptmikrofon":
> http://www.hauptmikrofon.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&;
> id=66&Itemid=77
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kees de Visser
> Galaxy Classics
>
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--
As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this disclaimer 
is redundant


These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer

Dave Malham
Ex-Music Research Centre
Department of Music
The University of York
Heslington
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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[Sursound] Somting for the Weekend - Commerisal 3D sound

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

As I visited the MPEG Symposium in Stockholm this summer and listened to the 3D 
sound session I want to give a  pointer to 

http://www.auro-technologies.com/consumer/experience

There will be Titles released on the movies this autum using this technology 
for 3D sound according to the presenter.

As far as I understood it is a speaker feed based technology, the surround 
layer is "normal" 5.1 with stereo back channels,
The second height layer is 5.0 with a layer of speakers placed above the normal 
surround speakers, there was also talk about adding an additional roof speaker.

The idea for end user speakers seemed to be to have them packaged as high 
columns containing one surround speaker and a height speaker in one module.

This was the only interesting stuff, as I discounted the 22.1 Japanese stuff 
and other things.



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Re: [Sursound] "Low cost" mobile ambisonic recording possible ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The Price for the Tascam is OK in USA/NY (599 USD + tax) but in Europe - No -  
around 1200 USD.

Do you know of anybody who would want to buy a MOTU Traveler Mk3 for a 
reasonable price, from my point of view :-)


- Bo-Erik




-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: den 3 oktober 2012 11:35
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] "Low cost" mobile ambisonic recording possible ?

I wouldn't go into the H2 line or mic inputs - they are very noisy - but 
Umahankars modified H2 which will take your Tetramic direct to the h2 (by 
removing the capsules in the H2 and replacing them with a 5pin xlr) is a 
project I have had on the back burner for a while and should give you an 
otherwise very portable , very expensive 4 track recorder - Umashankar have you 
still go that step by step photographic instruction webpage for doing this 
still up ? If you dont like modifying gadgets I second the Tascam.
Either way you wont need the Motu.


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[Sursound] "Low cost" mobile ambisonic recording possible ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I want to lighten my burden when traveling and maybe do a recording.  I want to 
avoid spending much more money on this.
So I want to put a few questions on the table. 

I can accept to carry the Motu Traveler as the Microphone inputs and the gain 
controls and level monitoring works well.
So I want to build / assemble something low weight and small to add to the MOTU 
as a pure digital recording device.

The MOTU can be configured as a mixer outputting ADAT or dual SPDIF  for 4 
channels.
The Dual SPDIF signals have the eventual advantage of having a choice of 44.1, 
48, 96 or 192 kHz sampling rate.

So being as unstructured as I am I have a few wild ideas.

My first question:
 - If using 2 USB sound interfaces with spdif inputs, should the audio 
interfaces not stay in sync as long as the input signals from the MOTU stays in 
sync?
   If so, This would make it possible to use 2  low cost  USB audio cards with 
SPDIF inputs?
-  can this be correct?

- Can dual SPDIF inputs be directly added to the RPi?
- Can 2  I2S input modules  be used 
http://www.pavouk.org/hw/modulardac/en_dir9001spdif.html and connected to a 
RPi, would the drivers be difficult to create?

or maybe ADAT via I2S?
  Not so expensive ADAT receiver modules with I2S interface
>  http://electronics.dantimax.dk/Kits/Digital_audio/11329401182.html
>  http://www.pcm63.com/?332,adat-receiver-module

A very simple recording program or App for 4 channels should be possible to 
create for the RPi on linux or Android, ardour is overkill.

Analog Line in to Zoom H2 from the MOTU feels "not good enough" as it will be  
AD - DA - AD conversion.

A much lower weight solution, but maybe lower quality overall?
 Have someone created a small circuit to interface the coresound directly to a 
ZOOM H2?
 My idea for this would be:
- External Battery feed to the ZOOM H2 to redusing internal voltage converter 
disturbance signals,
 6 Volt to the coresound mic, could the Tetramic capsules be directly connected 
to the H2, maybe a Capacitor needed to isolate DC levels?

Currently I have and use this hardware:
Coresound tetramic
Motu traveler MK3
Large Toshiba A100 portable PC.

Zoom H2  - not modified ( yet with 4 line inputs ) use as backup in case of 
problems with primary system.

On Order:
Raspberry Pi 
2 USB Soundcard with SPDIF input 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XXY5Q4/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_SC_3p_dp_1

- Bo-Erik 






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Re: [Sursound] DIY MADI to ADAT converter - RE: "Digital Amplifiers" (Multichannel Amps with ADAT input)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Is it possible to create a ADAT interface for RPi from this information?
That would be nice if "someone" did that for us :-)

Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 27 september 2012 15:24
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] DIY MADI to ADAT converter - RE: "Digital Amplifiers" 
(Multichannel Amps with ADAT input)

Thanks for pointing this out! What might be interesting to think about w.r.t. 
RPi's (given the lack of a full TDM type interface) is the possibility of 
modifying this to an Ethernet to ADAT interface. 
I haven't studied the design in detail but it might well be possible, given the 
fact that the MADI physical layer is done via an Ethernet chip, to change the 
function of the fpga to use an Ethernet stack to ADAT protocol, rather than 
MADI.

Incidentally, someone once published the ADAT protocol after some reverse 
engineering (ah-hm) but there is much more info at

www.wavefrontsemi.com/UserFiles/File/AL_Info/AL31/AppNotes/WavefrontAN3101-10 
S-Mux Receiver for ADAT Optical Protocol.pdf

and also at

https://ackspace.nl/wiki/ADAT_project

 Dave


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[Sursound] DIY MADI to ADAT converter - RE: "Digital Amplifiers" (Multichannel Amps with ADAT input)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I found this when I was trying to find a low cost way to interface a RPi to a 
MOTU traveler MK3 to create a compact portable DAW.
So far I have not found lowcost ARM board with firewire interface or 
possibility to plugin firewire, pcmcia, pcie, +

http:// http://madi.webklik.nl/page/madi  MADI to ADAT DIY  project.

I belive it might be of interest.

Bo-Erik


---

On a related note: anyone knows an alternative for the RME ADI-648 (MADI <-> 
ADAT bridge) ?

A few days ago two more failed at the CdS, these are the 5th and 6th. In all 
cases it seems to be the power supply. And it's not excessive temperature as we 
were thinking before - these two were operating in a conditioned environment 
and never have been 'too hot'. 

Ciao,

--
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically 
inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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[Sursound] Cape for BeagleBone + preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Hi
The info about Dave's plan to look in to the possibility to create a 16 channel 
sound card for the BeagleBone triggered me to start rethinking on how to
Get a more portable solution for recording with my coresound microphone. ( And 
I am cheap and likes to fool my self that to build it is more cost effective 
than buying expensive )

After a bit of Google usage, it seems difficult to create a Firewire interface 
or add cardbus or expresscard to a BeagleBone ( or other arm board)  to use 
with my MOTU traveler MK3,
 I got another idea!
It is possible to get the MOTU Traveler MK3 to output the 4 Mic Inputs channels 
from the coresound mic to  the 2 SPDIF interfaces it has. 

To me it seems possible to create a cape with dual spdif interfaces that would 
make it possible to record 2 spdif  stereo streams  with a beagle bone.

The chip below uses I2S interfaces, and I suspect it is possible to find linux 
drivers for this chip.  
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/10745-crystal-cs8415-receiver.html
http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/rdDatasheet/cs8415A_eb-2.pdf

As usual I do not have the competence to create this my self :-). 

Any comments?

- Bo-Erik


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 5 juli 2012 16:16
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

Not yet, I'm just testing the waters, so to speak, at present. I'm hopefully 
going to be doing some preliminary tests over the summer, but I won't be able 
to start serious work until late autumn as I don't retire till the end of 
September. I won't put up the Kickstarter page until I have a clearer idea of 
timescales as I would want to be sure I can deliver what I promise on it :-)

Dave

On 05/07/2012 15:03, umashankar manthravadi wrote:
> where do i sign up. have you started a kickstarter page? umashankar
>
> i have published my poems. read (or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar
>   > Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:57:07 +0100
>> From: dave.mal...@york.ac.uk
>> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?
>>
>> It will be balanced - not looking at anything else, especially as all 
>> dacs of any quality have balanced outs. My initial thoughts for a a 
>> Kickstarter reward structure is to do the usual special for early 
>> adopters which would, in this case, be what amounts to a cape (I'm 
>> wary of doing an actual cape as that might mean too much noise 
>> coupling from the CPU board into the analogue side of things) with 
>> people people who invest more getting the Beaglebone as well. Only in the 
>> second tranche would the dedicated CPU come out though whether on the same 
>> board or as a second board, I'm not sure yet, for the same reason as given 
>> above on noise coupling.
>>
>> Current thoughts have connectors for the audio on 25 pin D types (a 
>> la Tascam etc.) so that they can either go direct to an off-the-shelf 
>> loom which plugs into your amps/speakers. Alternatively the
>> board(s) could go into a rack unit with connections from the D types 
>> to xlr's on the back (or front) of the unit - this might include dedicated 
>> balanced line drivers to extend the usable range.
>>
>>   Dave
>>
>>
>> On 05/07/2012 14:41, Hugh Pyle wrote:
>>> +1.  If you design a BeagleBone cape with 16 channels out (balanced 
>>> +or
>>> not, I don't really mind), or a dedicated system that includes the 
>>> CPU, I'll want several :-)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:16 AM, GP  wrote:
 Put me on your pre-order list already Dave! :-).

 Cheers Garth
 Sent on the Move

 On 05/07/2012, at 19:48, Dave Malham  wrote:

> Wow! Fantastic response .. lots to think about. Will let you know how I 
> get on. Part of the problem is hardware as I was unable (at the time I 
> got this board) to find a case with a HD Audio front panel so it 
> currently thinks it's running in AC97 mode, but I'm going to knock 
> something up to get round this. In the mean time I'm going to play with 
> the suggestions people have made (Puppy is currently booting).
>
> I'm also interested in the paper that Fernando gave us a link to. 
> Although I don't want to use the Mamba hardware, I _am_ interested in the 
> possibilities for a dedicated multichannel player for installation work 
> (another retirement project!) What I'm looking at at present is a 
> multichannel dac linked directly (not via USB or owt like that) to an Arm 
> processor that'll just play a multichannel file off of a USB stick or SD 
> card. For prototyping I'll be using a BeagleBone (as I definitely don't 
> want the extra bells and whistles of the BeagleBoard itself) - I'd prefer 
> to use the RPi but the chip used (at least, according to the manual) 
> appears to have a crippled McASP port that can only hand

Re: [Sursound] What AV Linux distro to use with an old laptop - is it likely to be at all useful

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
Try AVLinux http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html new release coming 15 August.
Avlinux is not so small but good for Audio, I use this one.

http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6994 review of
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyStudio small good but a bit old ( 2011 ) but 
probably good enough,

Maybe look at the recent puppies ones: 
http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm

Take alook at the non-daw software http://non-daw.tuxfamily.org/ and also look 
in to
http://offog.org/code/potamus.html for a jack enable multichannel audio player 
software that can be connected to ambdec.

Puppy linux is small, nice and runs from RAM.
- Bo-Erik

Or the dated  but low resource demanding, review here 
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6994
Download here http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyStudio


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Gerard Lardner
Sent: den 5 augusti 2012 22:20
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] What AV Linux distro to use with an old laptop - is it 
likely to be at all useful

Pesky things, bank holiday weekends; you end up looking into things that should 
best be buried and forgotten. I was clearing out the cupboard in my office at 
home recently and came across an old laptop. That got me wondering if this 
could be a useful surround sound editing/recording machine if a lighter/faster 
OS than Windows was installed.

This laptop is old - very old: ca. 2000. Originally it had Windows 2000 
installed, but when I gave it to my godson many years ago he upgraded it to 
Windows XP. The laptop came back to me a few years ago when he got a better 
machine, and has been languishing in a cupboard ever since. It's painfully slow 
trying to run under fully-updated Windows XP, far slower than when it had 
Windows 2000 installed, but it runs 32-bit Linux fast enough, even booting off 
a live CD. So it occurred to me that it might make a useful surround sound 
recording/editing machine if I did not want to use my newer PCs, which are 
often busy for hours running CFD and FEM models for my regular engineering 
business.

The old laptop is a Dell Inspiron 8000 with a Pentium III processor at 750 MHz 
and 512 MB RAM. So it will not run any 64-bit OSs, and I am not even sure if it 
will actually boot off a DVD, though it does boot off CDs; but that's another 
problem, one which can probably be solved with a little lateral thinking. The 
immediate questions are:

  * Which distro(s) of Linux are most useful for surround sound
(Ambisonic) work? And
  * Which (32-bit) distro of Linux is likely to be light enough for such
an ancient laptop?

Gerard Lardner

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Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio? Raspberry Pi

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Hi
I want to share this info if you are intrested in the Raspberry PI.

Debian based release for Raspberry Pi, sound drivers not yet in this Alpha 
release, but comming...

http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/arm/test/raspi-sap6-5.96-alpha2/sap-5.96-alpha2-readme.htm
http://bkhome.org/blog/?page=1

Extract from Barrys Blog:

Personal comment
I have got to say, and of course I am probably biased, but I think that this 
pup is shaping up as the simplest and most complete out-of-the-box experience 
for newcomers to the RP.
Just about every app they might want ready-to-go, the Puppy Package Manager can 
install any app from the huge Debian repository, our simple "devx" 
one-file-install to transform our pup into a complete C/C++/Vala/Genie/BaCon 
compiler environment -- I recommend BaCon as a very easy language for 
programming-newbies.

Or, you can create utility and GUI apps without the the "devx" file, using just 
Ash/Bash, Perl or jimTcl scripting and gtkdialog (see Pburn, Pmusic and dozens 
of other apps created this way).
...yes, our tiny 85.6MB pup also has Perl and Tcl, albeit cutdown versions. If 
you really *must* have Python (see here why *not*: http://bkhome.org/genie/) 
then it is in the "devx". Heh, heh, I am just stirring some Python fans up, of 
course Python is ok if you want, but not much good for writing apps in Puppy as 
the "devx" is needed.

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Marc Lavallée
Sent: den 5 juli 2012 03:40
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

Fernando Lopez-Lezcano  a écrit :

> Yum has gotten much faster recently, but I have no idea how it 
> compares with apt today. IMHO it is as easy to use as apt (ie: it is 
> functionally equivalent), but it may be slow (perhaps to the point of 
> being unusable?) on low end systems. I should give it a try in the 
> beagle board systems we use @ ccrma.

Fedora is the default distribution for the Raspberry Pi, so there's probably 
good reasons to use it on such a slow computer. When I tried YUM on the XO, the 
unusable part of the process was reading and refreshing the packages database. 
But installing packages seems to be as randomly slow with YUM or APT. A linuxer 
demoed it twice, for fun:
APT wins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ejfNfEZDvs
YUM wins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRwFIb-g5w

Single board computers are interesting platforms to create dedicated ambisonic 
players. Let us know how the beagle board perform with a port of Planet CCRMA. 
;-)

Marc
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Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio? AVlinux

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 http://www.remastersys.com/forums/index.php?topic=1975.0 sorry for spamming 
you :-)
But as a donating user of Avlinux I feel it is my duty :-)
A new release is very close in time, but the 5.03 is good, and soundcard 
support is VERY good.
- Bosse

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: den 4 juli 2012 13:34
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

 
We should not fight over distributions ... But Avlinux has one advantage, that 
is that There has been a lot of work invested in making shure that all the 
program are of "compatible versions" and are interworking well with all other 
included softwares. 

The latest and greatest software releases of all programs is not always the 
best way to have a trouble free experience of using the applications in a 
distribution.

Try Avlinux from a fast USB stick or DVD to see what a well integrated 
distribution lets you do.
- Bosse




-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: den 4 juli 2012 13:07
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

Have you tried upgrading ubuntu to "ubuntu studio" ?

On 4 July 2012 11:41, Dave Malham  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>I'm looking for recommendations on a preferred (small) Linux distro 
> for surround work. To start with, I'd like to run on a Asus 35 M1-M 
> Pro motherboard as I have one handy. Unfortunately, my current Ubuntu 
> distro seems to have difficulties picking up its built-in 8 channel 
> audio but my relatively poor knowledge/experience of Linux means I 
> can't be sure if I'm doing something wrong (most probable scenario) or 
> if it's a distro or hardware limitation. As I only went for Ubuntu 
> because I had some experience with it already, I thought it would make 
> sense, before going further, to seek advice about optimum-for-audio 
> distros and concentrate on one of those and preferably one without much bloat.
>
> Dave
>
> --
>  These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer
> /***
> **/
> /* Dave Malham   
> http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/**research/dave-malham/<http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/research/dave-malham/>*/
> /* Music Research Centre */
> /* Department of Music"http://music.york.ac.uk/"; */
> /* The University of York  Phone 01904 322448*/
> /* Heslington  Fax   01904 322450*/
> /* York YO10 5DD */
> /* UK   'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'   */
> /*
> "http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/**mustech/3d_audio/<http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/>"
> */
> /***
> **/
>
> __**_
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
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> ic.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>
>
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Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
We should not fight over distributions ... But Avlinux has one advantage, that 
is that
There has been a lot of work invested in making shure that all the program are 
of "compatible versions" and 
are interworking well with all other included softwares. 

The latest and greatest software releases of all programs is not always the 
best way to have a trouble free experience of using the applications in a 
distribution.

Try Avlinux from a fast USB stick or DVD to see what a well integrated 
distribution lets you do.
- Bosse




-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: den 4 juli 2012 13:07
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

Have you tried upgrading ubuntu to "ubuntu studio" ?

On 4 July 2012 11:41, Dave Malham  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>I'm looking for recommendations on a preferred (small) Linux distro 
> for surround work. To start with, I'd like to run on a Asus 35 M1-M 
> Pro motherboard as I have one handy. Unfortunately, my current Ubuntu 
> distro seems to have difficulties picking up its built-in 8 channel 
> audio but my relatively poor knowledge/experience of Linux means I 
> can't be sure if I'm doing something wrong (most probable scenario) or 
> if it's a distro or hardware limitation. As I only went for Ubuntu 
> because I had some experience with it already, I thought it would make 
> sense, before going further, to seek advice about optimum-for-audio 
> distros and concentrate on one of those and preferably one without much bloat.
>
> Dave
>
> --
>  These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer
> /***
> **/
> /* Dave Malham   
> http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/**research/dave-malham/*/
> /* Music Research Centre */
> /* Department of Music"http://music.york.ac.uk/"; */
> /* The University of York  Phone 01904 322448*/
> /* Heslington  Fax   01904 322450*/
> /* York YO10 5DD */
> /* UK   'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'   */
> /*
> "http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/**mustech/3d_audio/"
> */
> /***
> **/
>
> __**_
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursound ic.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>
>
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Re: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 Avlinux , not so small but good for Audio http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html 
i use this one.
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyStudio small good but abit old ( 2011 ) but 
probably good enough, or http://gorgeaccess.net/fatdaw/ relation to 
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/fatdog including audacity
Maybe look at the recent puppies ones: 
http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm

Take alook at the non-daw http://non-daw.tuxfamily.org/ and also look in to 
http://offog.org/code/potamus.html for a jack enable multichannel audio player 
software.

Puppy linux is small, nice and runs from RAM.
- Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 4 juli 2012 12:42
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] preferred (small) linux distro for audio?

Hi folks,
I'm looking for recommendations on a preferred (small) Linux distro for 
surround work. To start with, I'd like to run on a Asus 35 M1-M Pro motherboard 
as I have one handy. Unfortunately, my current Ubuntu distro seems to have 
difficulties picking up its built-in 8 channel audio but my relatively poor 
knowledge/experience of Linux means I can't be sure if I'm doing something 
wrong (most probable scenario) or if it's a distro or hardware limitation. As I 
only went for Ubuntu because I had some experience with it already, I thought 
it would make sense, before going further, to seek advice about 
optimum-for-audio distros and concentrate on one of those and preferably one 
without much bloat.

 Dave

--
  These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer 
/*/
/* Dave Malham   http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/research/dave-malham/ */
/* Music Research Centre */
/* Department of Music"http://music.york.ac.uk/"; */
/* The University of York  Phone 01904 322448*/
/* Heslington  Fax   01904 322450*/
/* York YO10 5DD */
/* UK   'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'   */
/*"http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/"; */
/*/

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Re: [Sursound] Quicktime player ?? - Play ambisonic files

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

For windows ( and osX), should not this work? 

A program to host VST plugins on windows
http://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm
For Mac OS 
http://wacvst.sourceforge.net/
A VST ambisonic decoder
http://vvaudio.com/products/vvmicvst

I have not tested, will try soon...
We should have a webpage/wiki where simple setups for playing amb can be 
documented.
Even the arcane hieroglyph ways of doing it :-)

- Bosse

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Hunt
Sent: den 28 juni 2012 18:32
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: [Sursound] Quicktime player ??

Hi,

> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 06:05:49 +0100
> From: Dave Malham 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] VLC Ambisonic player module
>
> Hi there,
>Whilst MPlayer is an excellent piece of kit, it's not exactly 
> suited to people with little or no computer literacy, so someone on a 
> Windoze machine and an audio file to play can't just be told to instal 
> MPlayer  - for them,
>
> mplayer -ao jack -channels 7 myvideo.avi
>
> is slightly less intelligible than the average inscription in a 
> Pharaoh's tomb :-)
>
> Why was I asking about this? After all, I just run up Bidule (or 
> Reaper, or Max/MSP) to do the job. Well, I was prompted to ask because 
> a mate had just been packaging up some ST450 recordings as UHJ for 
> distribution to the people he'd recorded and wondered if there was a 
> way he could point them at whereby they could (easily) play them 
> properly (ie decoded) via the Quicktime player. I naturally thought of 
> something more openof course, Bruce did some stuff for the Windows 
> Media Player, but it's not the same.


I've never got round to trying this myself, but it seems as though Quicktime 
player, along with a few other bits, might be persuaded to do the job. You can 
get it to output multi-channel streams, which could be B-Format, or just use 
UHJ as suggested. Use Soundflower to send the audio stream to another 
application (e.g. Bidule, Max, Audio Mulch, Reaper), and find or build a 
decoder that works in it. Bruce's plug-ins are a good bet for this.

Not exactly for the computer phobic, and you still need a fair amount of gear: 
multi-channel audio interface etc. You might be able to use HDMI if your 
computer can send LPCM audio streams via it to an AV receiver, and persuade 
said receiver to handle it correctly.

Done once it should be possible to help others do it.

Ciao,

Dave Hunt

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Re: [Sursound] VLC Ambisonic player module

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Hi again - actually this was the player I meant to refer to in my previous mail.
>From my nonprogrammers point it looks easier to add ambisonic capability to 
>this player that is open source and available for several platforms:
UMPlayer is written under the Qt platform and is available for Microsoft 
Windows, Apple Mac OS/X, and GNU/Linux opertaing systems.

http://www.umplayer.com/features/
http://www.umplayer.com/features/audio.html

Built-in Codecs

With over 270 built-in Audio and Video codecs UMPlayer can handle nearly all 
media formats, including AAC, AC3, ASF, AVI, DIVX, FLV, H.263, Matroska, MOV, 
MP3, MP4, MPEG, OGG, QT, RealMedia, VOB, Vorbis, WAV, WMA, WMV, XVID and many 
more.
Free and Open Source

The UMPlayer project is the product of volunteer work of people from all over 
the world and will always remain free and open source.

- Bo-Erik


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: den 28 juni 2012 08:35
To: Surround Sound discussion group; s...@mchapman.com
Subject: Re: [Sursound] VLC Ambisonic player module

 
http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/features/ 

Might this be a way to create a ambisonic player?
By providing a plugin to gstreamer?

GStreamer has been ported to a wide range of operating systems, processors and 
compilers. These include but are not limited to Linux on x86, PPC and ARM using 
GCC. Solaris on x86 and SPARC using both GCC and Forte, MacOSX, Microsoft 
Windows using MS Visual Developer, IBM OS/400 and Symbian OS. 

GStreamer can bridge to other multimedia frameworks in order to reuse existing 
components (e.g. codecs) and use platform input/output mechanisms:

Linux/Unix: OpenMAX-IL (via gst-openmax)
Windows: DirectShow
Mac OS X: QuickTime

Comprehensive Core Library

Graph-based structure allows arbitrary pipeline construction
Based on GLib 2.0 object model for object-oriented design and inheritance
Compact core library of less than 500KB, about 65 K lines of code
Multi-threaded pipelines are trivial and transparent to construct
Clean, simple and stable API for both plugin and application developers
Extremely lightweight data passing means very high performance/low latency
Complete debugging system for both core and plugin/app developers
Clocking to ensure global inter-stream synchronization (a/v sync)
Quality of service (qos) to ensure best possible quality under high CPU load

Intelligent Plugin Architecture

Dynamically loaded plugins provide elements and media types, demand-loaded 
via a registry cache, similar to ld.so.cache
Element interface handles all known types of sources, filters and sinks
Capabilities system allows verification of element compatibility using MIME 
types and media-specific properties
Autoplugging uses capabilities system to complete complex paths 
automatically
Pipelines can be visualised by dumping them to a .dot file and creating a 
PNG image from that
Resource friendly plugins don't waste memory

Broad Coverage of Multimedia Technologies GStreamers capabilities can be 
extended through new plugins. The features listed below are just a rough 
overview what is available using the GStreamers own plugins, not counting any 
3rd party offerings.

container formats: asf, avi, 3gp/mp4/mov, flv, mpeg-ps/ts, mkv/webm, mxf, 
ogg
streaming: http, mms, rtsp
codecs: FFmpeg, various codec libraries, 3rd party codec packs
metadata: native container formats with a common mapping between them
video: various colorspaces, support for progressive and interlaced video
audio: integer and float audio in various bit depths and multichannel 
configurations

- Bo-Erik Sandholm




-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 28 juni 2012 07:06
To: s...@mchapman.com; Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] VLC Ambisonic player module

Hi there,
   Whilst MPlayer is an excellent piece of kit, it's not exactly suited to 
people with little or no computer literacy, so someone on a Windoze machine and 
an audio file to play can't just be told to instal MPlayer  - for them,

mplayer -ao jack -channels 7 myvideo.avi

is slightly less intelligible than the average inscription in a Pharaoh's tomb 
:-)

Why was I asking about this? After all, I just run up Bidule (or Reaper, or 
Max/MSP) to do the job. Well, I was prompted to ask because a mate had just 
been packaging up some ST450 recordings as UHJ for distribution to the people 
he'd recorded and wondered if there was a way he could point them at whereby 
they could (easily) play them properly (ie decoded) via the Quicktime player. I 
naturally thought of something more openof course, Bruce did some stuff for 
the Windows Media Player, but it's not the same. Maybe it's a retirem

Re: [Sursound] VLC Ambisonic player module

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/features/ 

Might this be a way to create a ambisonic player?
By providing a plugin to gstreamer?

GStreamer has been ported to a wide range of operating systems, processors and 
compilers. These include but are not limited to Linux on x86, PPC and ARM using 
GCC. Solaris on x86 and SPARC using both GCC and Forte, MacOSX, Microsoft 
Windows using MS Visual Developer, IBM OS/400 and Symbian OS. 

GStreamer can bridge to other multimedia frameworks in order to reuse existing 
components (e.g. codecs) and use platform input/output mechanisms:

Linux/Unix: OpenMAX-IL (via gst-openmax)
Windows: DirectShow
Mac OS X: QuickTime

Comprehensive Core Library

Graph-based structure allows arbitrary pipeline construction
Based on GLib 2.0 object model for object-oriented design and inheritance
Compact core library of less than 500KB, about 65 K lines of code
Multi-threaded pipelines are trivial and transparent to construct
Clean, simple and stable API for both plugin and application developers
Extremely lightweight data passing means very high performance/low latency
Complete debugging system for both core and plugin/app developers
Clocking to ensure global inter-stream synchronization (a/v sync)
Quality of service (qos) to ensure best possible quality under high CPU load

Intelligent Plugin Architecture

Dynamically loaded plugins provide elements and media types, demand-loaded 
via a registry cache, similar to ld.so.cache
Element interface handles all known types of sources, filters and sinks
Capabilities system allows verification of element compatibility using MIME 
types and media-specific properties
Autoplugging uses capabilities system to complete complex paths 
automatically
Pipelines can be visualised by dumping them to a .dot file and creating a 
PNG image from that
Resource friendly plugins don't waste memory

Broad Coverage of Multimedia Technologies
GStreamers capabilities can be extended through new plugins. The features 
listed below are just a rough overview what is available using the GStreamers 
own plugins, not counting any 3rd party offerings.

container formats: asf, avi, 3gp/mp4/mov, flv, mpeg-ps/ts, mkv/webm, mxf, 
ogg
streaming: http, mms, rtsp
codecs: FFmpeg, various codec libraries, 3rd party codec packs
metadata: native container formats with a common mapping between them
video: various colorspaces, support for progressive and interlaced video
audio: integer and float audio in various bit depths and multichannel 
configurations

- Bo-Erik Sandholm




-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 28 juni 2012 07:06
To: s...@mchapman.com; Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] VLC Ambisonic player module

Hi there,
   Whilst MPlayer is an excellent piece of kit, it's not exactly suited to 
people with little or no computer literacy, so someone on a Windoze machine and 
an audio file to play can't just be told to instal MPlayer  - for them,

mplayer -ao jack -channels 7 myvideo.avi

is slightly less intelligible than the average inscription in a Pharaoh's tomb 
:-)

Why was I asking about this? After all, I just run up Bidule (or Reaper, or 
Max/MSP) to do the job. Well, I was prompted to ask because a mate had just 
been packaging up some ST450 recordings as UHJ for distribution to the people 
he'd recorded and wondered if there was a way he could point them at whereby 
they could (easily) play them properly (ie decoded) via the Quicktime player. I 
naturally thought of something more openof course, Bruce did some stuff for 
the Windows Media Player, but it's not the same. Maybe it's a retirement 
project...just 13 weeks, 1 day to go now :-)

   Dave
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Re: [Sursound] ultra-cheap m/c USB cards for the R-Pi?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Maybe you are looking for something like this £ 10,37
 http://blog.rtwilson.com/review-asonic-external-usb-2-0-8-channel-sound-card/

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 26 juni 2012 10:00
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ultra-cheap m/c USB cards for the R-Pi?

Hmm - not exactly ultra cheap! The Janus A/D/A is $ 163 US for members of TAPR 
and it needs the Magister USB interface as well, which is $ 199 US for members 
of TAPR.They do give you much more control and it sounds like its really good 
kit, butanyway, if you want to read more, http://www.tapr.org/

 Dave


On 26/06/2012 02:51, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
> On 2012-06-25, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
>
> In "ultracheap", have any of you ever probed the radio amateur 
> circuit? I mean really probed it deep, even if some of you probably 
> are a part o it already. They evidently do ultracheap circuits, even 
> including USB interfaces, and will ship the parts and the boards to you at 
> cost. Including boards with pretty bad ass A/D/A designs, as in what TAPR 
> does.

--
  These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer 
/*/
/* Dave Malham   http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/research/dave-malham/ */
/* Music Research Centre */
/* Department of Music"http://music.york.ac.uk/"; */
/* The University of York  Phone 01904 322448*/
/* Heslington  Fax   01904 322450*/
/* York YO10 5DD */
/* UK   'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'   */
/*"http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/"; */
/*/



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Re: [Sursound] ultra-cheap m/c USB cards for the R-Pi?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs yes, hdmi sound is possible from the raspberry 
pi.
Here is a description on how to get it up and running, looking in to XBMC on 
linux should also get you up to speed:
 
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-hardware-18/no-hdmi-audio-in-linux-819172/

Many of the surround sound home theater amplifiers current or  from a few years 
back do have hdmi sound capability. 
I my self have a second hand Denon 2307 that is around 5 years old and it has 7 
x 100 Watt audio, that can run a 6 or 7 speaker setup.
Look for second hand sourround amplifiers with hdmi audio for a low cost 
multichannel amplifier.

But i do understand the attraction of a very lowcost usb soundcard instead, but 
then why a raspberry instead of a pc :-).

Best Regards
Bo-erik


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 25 juni 2012 10:12
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ultra-cheap m/c USB cards for the R-Pi?

ARE the full 8 HDMI channels available?? As I read the spec, there was only 
stereo and this post 
<http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4101> on the RPi website 
does not really clear it up much. If that means what it appears to say you'd 
need a HDMI audio breakout box with internal DAC's (such as 
http://www.converters.tv/products/hdtv_to_hdtv/698.html or the Gefen boxes
http://www.gefen.uk.com/index.php) to get access to it and they're more 
expensive than a cheap usb audio box.

  Dave


On 25/06/2012 08:29, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
>   
> http://mitchtech.net/raspberry-pi-audio/
>   
> Why not just use the 8 HDMI sound channels?
> Can you get jack and ambdec compiled for raspberry-pi?
> http://offog.org/code/potamus.html is a small player that can play ambisonic 
> files via jack and ambdec.
>
> I would love to know it is available, I have not yet ordered a raspberry pi.
>
> Regards
> Bo-Erik
>
> -Original Message-
> From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu 
> [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Dobson
> Sent: den 24 juni 2012 18:10
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: [Sursound] ultra-cheap m/c USB cards for the R-Pi?
>
> Hi,
>
> I am setting up my new Raspberry Pi (Debian Linux), and am interested in any 
> comments, recommendations etc regarding the various really low-cost USB 
> devices around (e.g under £40, some as little as £12) offering 5.1 or 7.1 
> outputs - e.g. Terratec,  StarTech, Digiflex; in case any of them are worth 
> taking a chance on to get surround out of the Pi. Obviously I am not 
> expecting stellar audio quality (or anything better than 16/48), but they 
> need to use chips that alsa knows about, such as C-Media and be as far as is 
> possible a class-compliant USB device. I can easily build the multi-channel 
> toolkit for the Pi, but there is no point if a surround output is 
> unachievable.  Anyone else exploring the Pi? Needless to say, a simple stereo 
> USB card is no problem; I have my Edirol UA-1EX working nicely for output.
>
> Richard Dobson
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--
  These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer 
/*/
/* Dave Malham   http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/research/dave-malham/ */
/* Music Research Centre */
/* Department of Music"http://music.york.ac.uk/"; */
/* The University of York  Phone 01904 322448*/
/* Heslington  Fax   01904 322450*/
/* York YO10 5DD */
/* UK   'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'   */
/*"http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/"; */
/*/



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Re: [Sursound] ultra-cheap m/c USB cards for the R-Pi?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
http://mitchtech.net/raspberry-pi-audio/
 
Why not just use the 8 HDMI sound channels?
Can you get jack and ambdec compiled for raspberry-pi?
http://offog.org/code/potamus.html is a small player that can play ambisonic 
files via jack and ambdec.

I would love to know it is available, I have not yet ordered a raspberry pi.

Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Richard Dobson
Sent: den 24 juni 2012 18:10
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] ultra-cheap m/c USB cards for the R-Pi?

Hi,

I am setting up my new Raspberry Pi (Debian Linux), and am interested in any 
comments, recommendations etc regarding the various really low-cost USB devices 
around (e.g under £40, some as little as £12) offering 5.1 or 7.1 outputs - 
e.g. Terratec,  StarTech, Digiflex; in case any of them are worth taking a 
chance on to get surround out of the Pi. Obviously I am not expecting stellar 
audio quality (or anything better than 16/48), but they need to use chips that 
alsa knows about, such as C-Media and be as far as is possible a 
class-compliant USB device. I can easily build the multi-channel toolkit for 
the Pi, but there is no point if a surround output is unachievable.  Anyone 
else exploring the Pi? Needless to say, a simple stereo USB card is no problem; 
I have my Edirol UA-1EX working nicely for output.

Richard Dobson
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Re: [Sursound] Doppler ILLUSION (vs. shift) and more

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
You are setting a hard goal for your self.
You also need to have a look at at the speakers that you are using,
not many speakers are able to recreate a waveform at a the listening position. 
It will definetely be a big challenge when using more than one speaker.
But maybe this is the first point you will have to overlook, Ambisonics at 
least tries :-).

- Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Eric Carmichel
Sent: den 31 maj 2012 20:57
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: [Sursound] Doppler ILLUSION (vs. shift) and more

- Part of original message removed here

If the system is REAL enough (again, referring to physical replication, not 
perceptual illusion), then iterations of the recording made through the system 
should yield recordings with identical, physically measurable attributes. By 
the way, thanks Dave for sharing insight and experience regarding your 
recording of a recording. I have access to a fairly large, semi-anechoic room 
(all walls, floor and ceiling well treated) that could be useful for such an 
experiment. I'll keep you posted.

As always, I greatly appreciate everyone's help and insight!
Best always,
Eric
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Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
If lacking a anechoic chamber, substitute it with:

1 - A large field covered with about half a meter of newfallen snow.
2 - On the top ridge of a gabled barn standing in a field.
3 - In the top of a large free standing tree.

Some effort and dedication is needed to replace the cash expenditure to build a 
anechoic room :-)

- Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of etienne deleflie
Sent: den 31 maj 2012 02:28
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

-- Removed text
Very similar concept to Alvin Lucier's composition "I am sitting in a room"
... except Lucier is amplifying the effect of the room .. and it is 
significant... and this suggests that the experiment should be done in an 
anechoic chamber ... because you will be capturing not just the effect of the 
microphone, and the limitations in the decoding, as well as the character of 
the speakers, but also the character of the room.

Etienne


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Re: [Sursound] Ambdec porting to android? Suitable students project - Creation of ambisonic player?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
Not tested but this should work:

Download The debian based puppy linux live CD from:
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Saluki  
http://saluki-linux.com/ 

Enable HDMI sound
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/puppy-71/hdmi-audio-on-puppy-855795/ 
- very easy to do in puppy Racy,Wary, most other puppy versions 
menu>setup>multi-sound card wizard click HDMI. 

Install the debian versions of 
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/ambdec
Ambisonic player

http://packages.debian.org/hu/sid/potamus
Multi channel sound player with jack support ---

Or test the avlinux livecd where jack is already well integrated and configured 
to work.

Best Regards
Bo-Erik
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Re: [Sursound] Ambdec porting to android? Suitable students project - Creation of ambisonic player?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
I was appearently a little "hot on the trail" HDMI sound drivers are not yet 
verified / ported to the puppy linux distributin that is available for the A8 
based Mele 1000 settop box.

So next idea for someone else than me, porting of ambdec with a multichannel 
player to Android 2.3 instead?
Or maybe just skip the decoding on the device and play multi channel predecoded 
FLAC or OGG loudspeaker feeds, but that is not much fun :-)
And have to be verified to work.

There are a lot of low cost android players with hdmi multichannel sound 
running Android  on http://s.dealextreme.com/search/android+media+player

Have a nice summer
Bo-Erik
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[Sursound] Suitable students project - Creation of ambisonic player ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
I got the silly idea that if we have few a students with a lot of time at their 
hands...

It could be possible to create a low cost ambisonic player using the following 
resources

http://flac.sourceforge.net/format.html

To encode .amb into, i guess att the moment there is yet no support for  
http://mchapman.com/amb/wavex in flac.
Even if flack encoding is not neccessary but can save storage space.

http://dream.cs.bath.ac.uk/researchdev/wave-ex/bformat.html

Player 
http://www.alsaplayer.org/features.php supports FLAC ambisonic player
http://offog.org/code/potamus.html or this simple one that i know works well 
via jack.

Ambisonic decoder
http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/index.html


Operation system
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewCat=General 
- Barry Kauler has a A-10 Puppy Linux distribution and development environment, 
that seems nice - Puppy linux version
Not shure jack is included, but jack is available for puppylinux

Ubuntu is also available for A-10

Below 100 USD computers

Computer with 4 Core processor and 8 channel sound card:
http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/563764893-New-released-Android4-0-IPTV-google-tv-smart-android-box-allwinner-A10-Model-MK802-Notice-just-wholesalers.html

Or
http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/hacking_the_mele_a1000/ 

Mele 2000 from dealextreme cost 6 usd more but still costs below 100USD and has 
4 GB flash memory instead.

With this platform it is is possible to have up to 8 speaker channels from the 
computer via hdmi,
I have not at the moment a link to a 8 channel power amplifier to use for 2 
rings of 4 speakers,
But a horisontal 6 speaker array or other commeon speaker configurations can 
easily be powered via hometheater surround amplifiers.

OR 
Maybe to offer a "novelity" integrate the ambdec decoder and a multichannel 
wave player and port it to the google TV android environmnet with a number of 
"suitable" decoding matrixes and publish it together with a pointer to a bit of 
ambisonic material.

Have a nice summer
Bo-Erik
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Re: [Sursound] Quality recordings?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
Maybe little bit out of context but...
Is there no "Audiophile society" in the vincinity of you that you can do a deal 
with so the rest of us can enjoy a good recording?

I belive there is a small corner of the market for high quality issues of 
recordings,
but you have to convince the prospective buyers that the recording is something 
special :-).

In our Swedish LTS http://www.lts.a.se/lts/skivor we did a reissue of a 
"classic" record from 1982 based on the original mastertapes,
Without any compression or other processing when creating the CD master of 
Adolphson & Falk "Med rymden i blodet"
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWRaP97D-Vg.
The resulting CD with box is sold by the society for around £10 at cost, I 
belive the deal/production was for 300 or 600 Disks.

I myself creates CD's of the choir performances my wife participates in, for 
the members of the choirs.
I record with a coresound mic, a motu traveler 3 and Reaper, i use crossed 8 
decoding or UHJ coding to stereo and NO dynamic compression.

My limited audience and I like the resulting Cd's.

By the way do anyone have a VST plugin capabale of B-format to UHJ coding?

Regards
Bo-Erik Sandholm

 



-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 3 april 2012 11:00
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Can anyone help with my dissertation please?

I have to agree with this - at least, to some extent. One of the best 
recordings, in the sense of most enjoyable to me when I listened back to it, I 
ever did with the York Waits was one of the ones we did at the marvellous 
Bossal Church near York. It had to my ears a perfect balance of the acoustic of 
the space to the sound of the musicians...all down to the musicians, not me, I 
hasten to add.
But...when it went to the record company they insisted on sticking additional, 
cheesy, reverb on it "'cos that's what our customers want". Yuck :-(

Dave
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Re: [Sursound] Zoom H2 mods

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Do you have a reference to a schematics for the principle on how to implement 
the liniarization?

Is it one of the techniques described in the webpage below?
If so which variant are you going to use?

 http://www.johncon.com/john/wm61a/


Best Regards
Bo-Erik 
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Re: [Sursound] Thanks for links, insights, etc.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 If you go back in the archives you will find posts where I and Fonz discuss
 3 D playback rigs based on having 6 horisontal speakers that can be "reused" 
when playing back 3D.

Fons even made me a Ambdec config for 10 speakers I should be able to use with 
my MOTU traverer III

The motu cards are recognized in recent verisions of firewire drivers.
Avlinux is a good distribution to use for Linux Sound and Video.

Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Eric Carmichel
Sent: den 23 december 2011 00:31
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: [Sursound] Thanks for links, insights, etc.

Greetings:
Hello Michael C. and Fons A.,
Thank you for your detailed and informative responses to my questions.
Fortunately, the speakers I have chosen are well-matched and have good response 
characteristics. I matched them some time ago; however, each speaker underwent 
testing at an identical location, not at their respective positions in my 
listening room. Because I am interested in three-dimensional Ambisonics, four 
of the eight speakers in the (current) octagonal array will have to be close to 
floor level: This is the only way to get moderately wide vertical separation 
without putting the listener in a high chair. I recently observed that speaker 
response (independent of room characteristics) changes because the floor 
imparts an affect (I believe more than just the proximity effect). Fortunately, 
large amounts of EQ aren't needed, and I'm mostly interested in smoothing the 
response in the 100 Hz to 10 kHz range.
I'm a minimalist when it comes to audio. I was never one to use graphic EQs (or 
modern-day VSTs to achieve the same). I began building amplifiers while in 
grade school, and a 10 watt, class-A amp designed by J. Linsley Hood and 
described in Wireless World (1969-ish?) was a favorite of mine for many years. 
Later I built a class-A, push-pull VT amp with 300Bs and an interstage 
transformer. This was for my Lowthers. I never got into the single-ended stuff 
because it seemed easy to mitigate transformer core saturation issues with 
class-A push-pull designs that operated along the transfer characteristic as SE 
biasing. My point is this: I don't like too many things in the circuit path, 
and I only use EQ when absolutely necessary. However, measurements serve to 
"validate" my research findings, particularly when they're slated for 
publication or under scrutiny. If I use EQ, I try to use filter types that 
yield the best transient characteristics and  minimal phase anomalies. I 
downloaded, as per your suggestions, the PowerPoint / PDF by J. Nettingsmeier. 
Looks like really good information. I will give it a thorough reading after 
Christmas. Thanks for recommending.
RE MATLAB: Some of the cochlear implant (CI) simulations I do are simple phase 
vocoder scripts written in MATLAB. While in graduate school, my doc committee 
consisted of respected researchers (does W. Yost, M. Dorman, or S. Bacon ring a 
bell with anybody?) who were huge proponents of MATLAB. The general attitude 
was "if you can't do it in MATLAB, it isn't worth looking at; furthermore, if 
it requires hardware, we don't even want to look at it." Kind-of strange 
attitudes in my book, but I've always been more of a hardware person, whether 
it's digital or analog. I continue to do off-line wav processing in MATLAB 
because I can show the underlying math as well as the statistical outcome. More 
recently, I've been using Visual FORTRAN for projects.
RE Linux: I'm mostly a PC (Windows) user, but I'm not one to argue about the 
superiority of one OS over another. I have a BIG investment in software, and I 
don't want to buy two versions of everything. It's bad enough keeping up with 
the latest Adobe media suite or incarnation of Windows. I've mostly stayed with 
PCs so that I get best support for my National Instruments DAQ hardware or 
other (legacy) devices. Because I have several computers, setting one up with 
Linux is no problem at all. I used to run Red Hat Linux on one machine, and I 
really did believe in the superiority of Macs when Windows 98 repeatedly 
crashed. Nowadays I'll use what works best or is accessible. So that I can 
experiment with Ambdec, I'll load Linux on a dedicated hard drive. My audio 
hardware consists mostly of MOTU FireWire interfaces, but I also have an Avid 
PC extension chassis that has four identical PCI SoundBlaster cards on it. I'm 
sure I can find ASIO  drivers for Linux that will work with my MOTU gear. The 
SoundBlaster cards are generic enough to work with about any OS (maybe even OS2 
Warp).
I've been duly warned of the consequences of using more than six loudspeakers 
in a horizontal-only, first-order Ambisonic configuration. Thanks, Fons, for 
the very clear explanation. I do, however, want a flexible system because I'd 
like to move towards a 3-D setup (or higher-order Ambisonics via recordings 
made with a

Re: [Sursound] [ANN] Program now online - International Conference on Spatial Audio, Nov 10-13 2011, in Detmold, Germany

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
Will the recordings be available for second hand comparisons?
In other word will the recordings be available for download?

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Jörn Nettingsmeier
Sent: den 4 oktober 2011 20:33
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: [Sursound] [ANN] Program now online - International Conference on 
Spatial Audio, Nov 10-13 2011, in Detmold, Germany

Dear Sursounders!


The timetable for the International Conference on Spatial Audio 2011 in 
Detmold/Germany is now online:

http://www.icsa2011.org/vdt/webdownloads/icsa2011/ICSA_Program_Schedule_2011-10-02b.pdf

The conference emphasizes the scientific and technical aspects of spatial 
audio, but a number of workshops and presentations will be devoted to the 
artistic and esthetic possibilities and challenges as well.

In addition to five structured sessions on various spatial audio topics, the 
conference will feature installations of WFS + Height, Auro-3D, Binaural and 
Higher-order Ambisonic systems. During a three-day recording session last week 
totalling more than 140 microphone signals, we have recorded several chamber 
music ensembles simultaneously for all those methods and will offer conference 
participants a first-hand opportunity for comparison.

Complementing the two fixed WFS installations available in Detmold, an 
additional temporary 40-speaker setup will be rigged for WFS and Higher-order 
Ambisonics reproduction, and one seminar room will be equipped for 9+2 channel 
Auro-3D playback.

Registration is now open, and I'd be delighted to see you in Detmold in 
November!


Best regards,


Jörn



-- 
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT

http://stackingdwarves.net

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Re: [Sursound] Shameless plug for Linux audio - followup

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
How to try out a Linux Audio / video distribution,
Prerequisites:
1 - PC that can be booted from USB
2 - A sound card in PC :-)
3 - Windows on PC
4 - A 4 GB USB stick
5 - Download  http://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/
6 - Download  http://www.bandshed.net/DownloadInstall.html
7 - Use yumi to install the avlinux.iso image as debian live to the USB stick. 
7 - Boot from the USB stick and explore the Linux functionality of a Audio and 
Multimedia centric distribution.

Most professional and standard soundcards are detected and work with this 
distribution.
Jack and the rest of the multimedia infrastructure is installed and 
preconfigured.

Jconvolver 0.8.7 and other Fons programs are included in the distribution.

Applications overview:

Debian/GNU Linux
LXDE Lightweight X Desktop Environment
Remastersys Tools
linuxDSP Audio Plugins
Ardour Digital Audio Workstation
Hydrogen Drum Machine
Rosegarden Audio/MIDI Score Editor
Qtractor Audio/MIDI Sequencer
Guitarix
Openshot Video Editor
LiVES Video Editor
CinelerraCV Video Editor

Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Fons Adriaensen
Sent: den 23 augusti 2011 21:40
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Questions regarding a very early 'Ambisonic' LP

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 05:28:38AM -, Richard Lee wrote:
 
> Duu.uuh!  Mr. Elen, could you please provide some links to these.  
> I've already checked the Unobtainium Software website for software UHJ 
> decoders.



Time to switch to Linux. Jconvolver will let you define any complex matrix you 
want (up to 64 * 64) as a simple text file.
UHJ encoding and decoding are supplied as examples. The next release will make 
this even simpler as it has the 90 degrees phase shift operator built-in 
instead of relying on an an external Hilbert transfornm IR file.



Ciao,

--
FA

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Re: [Sursound] Portable ambisonics setup, or "how do you mount speakers on tubes?"

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
I bought from sure-electronics.com 
http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=1191  4 cahnnels + powesupply for 
61 USD

Bo-Erik
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Re: [Sursound] Fwd: Bass Problem in crosstalk cancellation

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
Fons can you do 2 experiments?

Get someone else than the listener to do random panning to a number of discrete 
locations.
Case A : Sine wave of 50 Hz, linear rise to full amplitude in 150 ms, hold 250 
ms, linear fade out of 150 ms.
Case B : Use a steady state 50 Hz signal and slowly pan it to new locations.

A table or graf showing the success of locating the virtual sources is what I 
want :-).

Regards
Bo-Erik


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Fons Adriaensen
Sent: den 9 juni 2011 18:26
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Fwd: Bass Problem in crosstalk cancellation

Two more (Euro)cents:

Just performed a little experiment.

Sine wave of 50 Hz, linear rise to full amplitude in 150 ms, hold 250 ms, 
linear fade out of 150 ms. The spectrum of such a signal is more than 60 dB 
down at 100 Hz re. its peak at 50 Hz.

Panned to random directions in 3rd order Ambisonics and reproduced on the 
horizontal octagon at the LABEL studio (Quested SR8).

I can *easily* tell from which direction it comes. There is some front/back 
ambiguity if (and only if) I keep my head fixed, but that is to be expected.

Ciao,

--
FA

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Re: [Sursound] Fwd: Bass Problem in crosstalk cancellation

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

This paper gives a interesting aspect on the lowfrequency playback
 http://www.maxx.com/objects/PDF/MaxxBassAESPaper.pdf

Sorry for not including it in the previous entry
- Bo-Erik
-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: den 9 juni 2011 09:37
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Fwd: Bass Problem in crosstalk cancellation

 
Yes
But the unanswered question is, can we really detect the originating direction 
of low frequency sound if you do not have assistance of the over 80-120Hz 
overtones ?

Or is the directional hint the the sensation of the impact on you body of the 
sound preassure wave ( high volume needed)?

There are research results indicating that it is not so important, that the 
highfrequency pshychocoustic impressions overrides and creates the directional 
impression.

Do any one have the definitive answer to this? Or do we really have to care, as 
far as "normal" use of mono channel for < 80Hz sounds.

For the 5.1 specification satellite speakers are to be able to go down to the 
cutover between 80 to 100 Hz, that some manufacturers of lowcost 5.1 appliances 
have a much higher cutover frequency is the normal corner cutting in low cost 
products.

- Bo-Erik
  
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Re: [Sursound] Fwd: Bass Problem in crosstalk cancellation

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
Yes
But the unanswered question is, can we really detect the originating direction 
of low frequency sound if you do not
have assistance of the over 80-120Hz overtones ?

Or is the directional hint the the sensation of the impact on you body of the 
sound preassure wave ( high volume needed)?

There are research results indicating that it is not so important, that the 
highfrequency pshychocoustic impressions overrides and creates the directional 
impression.

Do any one have the definitive answer to this? Or do we really have to care, as 
far as "normal" use of mono channel for < 80Hz sounds.

For the 5.1 specification satellite speakers are to be able to go down to the 
cutover between 80 to 100 Hz, that some manufacturers of lowcost 5.1 appliances 
have a much higher cutover frequency is the normal corner cutting in low cost 
products.

- Bo-Erik
  
-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Martin Leese
Sent: den 8 juni 2011 18:35
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Fwd: Bass Problem in crosstalk cancellation

Marc Lavall?e  wrote:
...
> Ambisonics can supposedly reproduce
> bass from all directions; is it true?

Yes, assuming:

1.  The source contains bass from all
directions
2.  The standing waves in the room don't
screw up localisation of bass frequencies.

But this is also true for 5.1 (assuming some idiot doesn't stuff all of the 
bass into the LFE channel).

Regards,
Martin
--
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Sound Externalization Headphone

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
Hi
You seem to have made a very advanced head tracking device,
Did you ever consider to use wii for head tracking?
http://rpavlik.github.com/wiimote-head-tracker-gui/
Wii headtracking in VR Juggler through VRPN
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wognum/wii/

http://www.wiimoteproject.com/

Regards
Bo-Erik




-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Hector Centeno
Sent: den 25 maj 2011 23:15
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Externalization Headphone

Exactly what I've been exploring using ambisonic recordings from a tetrahedral 
mic. I've been decoding to fixed HRTFs corresponding to virtual speakers in a 
cube configuration. Good to know who was doing it and when was already being 
done. I also made a head-tracking sensor using an accelerometer, gyroscope and 
magnetometer controlled by an Arduino Pro Mini:

http://vimeo.com/22727528

Cheers,

Hector

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 4:06 AM, Dave Malham  wrote:
>
>
> On 24/05/2011 20:00, f...@libero.it wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I should mention that interpolation of HRTF is not the only possible 
>> technique; you can use for example a virtual loudspeaker array...
>>
> This is certainly the way that the Lake DSP system worked that they 
> demonstrated way back in 1993 (I think it's in the papers for the 
> London
> VR93 confence from that year but I don't have my copy of the 
> proceedings hand). The sounds were recorded in (first order) 
> Ambisonics and the head tracking drove a rotate/tilt algorithme that 
> fed a decoder to virtual speakers the signals from which were 
> convolved with fixed hrtf's corresponding to the speakers' positions 
> that were fixed wrt the head, mixed together and fed to the headphones.
>
>
>                  Dave
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Re: [Sursound] Speaker configs + subwoofers

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 A bit out of topic but if anyone else is into building their own speaker 
cabinets.
Let me point you to a document that is very good in explaining the design 
choices in a cabinet for the bass frequencies.

http://www.sonicdesign.se/optimum.html

Regards
Bo-Erik 

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: den 4 maj 2011 13:48
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

>From 
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_localization#Evaluation_for_low_freq
>uencies

Evaluation for low frequencies

For frequencies below 800 Hz, the dimensions of the head (ear distance 21.5 cm, 
corresponding to an interaural time delay of 625 µs), are smaller than the half 
wavelength of the sound waves. So the auditory system can determine phase 
delays between both ears without confusion. Interaural level differences are 
very low in this frequency range, especially below about 200 Hz, so a precise 
evaluation of the input direction is nearly impossible on the basis of level 
differences alone. As the frequency drops below 80 Hz it becomes difficult or 
impossible to use either time difference or level difference to determine a 
sound's lateral source, because the phase difference between the ears becomes 
too small for a directional evaluation.

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: den 4 maj 2011 13:41
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

 
Yes, I have a few woofers available BUT according to what I understand from 
psychoacoustics we cannot really hear directions of sound below 80 Hz, as the 
ear/brain is changing method of decoding soundwaves between 80 to 100 Hz?
So do I really need more than a pair driven in mono (or 4) to even out the 
excitation of the room modes? 

If I where to add a low frequency decoder how should I do that?

Is it not so that the speaker feed to all of the 10 speakers are in phase for 
frequencies lower than Some "undefined" frequency? 
That is using Ambdec?

Should I have a highpass filter before or after the decoder for the 10 "small" 
speakers, if I add a low frequency feed, either mono or decoded?

Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Peter Lennox
Sent: den 4 maj 2011 11:32
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

Quick suggestion: - as you're having to use more than 8 channels anyway, you're 
likely to be using a 16 channel card; thus, you would have some channels left 
to decode (horizontal only) to 3 or 4 subs

Dr Peter Lennox
School of Technology
University of Derby, UK
tel: 01332 593155
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk  


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: 04 May 2011 08:09
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

 

I still want to suggest a setup that I will soon have in operation, I have 
written about it before.
It uses 10 channels, it is a hexagon in the horizontal plane with a speakers at 
front back.
The Z is handled by for speakers, placed where the 4 hexagon side speakers will 
end up if the Hexagon is rotated 90 degrees around a axis through the front and 
back hexagon speakers.

Fons A has created a ambdec for me of this setup.

I have the possibility to have all speakers except the 2 floor speakers 
permanently mounted due to my room geometry. I have the 2 floor speakers 
mounted on a long wooden plank letting me getting them in place quickly.

I have been rethinking my amplifier setup and will now use 3 modules of 4 
channel sure swiched amps instead of 2 Home theater amplifiers.
The shure amp modules (4 x 100W) cost 98USD including a switched power supply, 
an will give 30 watts per 8 ohm speakers, I will only be using 2 power supplies 
so the total material cost is at the moment 3 x 44 US + 2 x 48 USD, that is 
less than 240 USD.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=320-302

I will be using second hand Kef KHT-2005.2 "Eggs" as speakers.

It is a bit of a "bother" that 10 instead of 8 channels are used, when it comes 
to the sound card setups...

Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Aaron Heller
Sent: den 3 maj 2011 20:04
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fons Adriaensen  wrote:
> On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 07:15:29PM +0530, umashankar mantravadi wrote:
>>
>> in fact angelo recommended that i arrange the

Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 I totally agree that more than 1 but probably not more than 4 subwoofers are 
an noticable advantage in a room for below 100Hz or infrasound
Frequencies.

What i am wondering/thinking of is really if our hearing do not use the clues 
of the overtones or distorsion overtones from subwoofer elements to fool us in 
to beliving we can hear direction of really low frequency sounds.

I have only had the trouser flapping experience once my self and I do not think 
I could have defined from which direction the first "flap" where comming, had 
it not been a around 110dB disco sound level in the room where I stood in the 
doorway.
Or can we really feel the "Punch" in our chest or in the back?

> very briefly, I think decorrelated Lfgives better 'spaciousness', and highly 
> correlated Lf (as obtained by feeding 'W' to subs) causes the opposite - that 
> lack of externalisation or 'in the head' feeling Dr Peter Lennox 

How much decorelation is needed, do unsymmetrical placement of the subs produce 
that?

How much actual subfrequency decorrelation can you really get when decoding a 
FOA b-format signal?

I am following a swedish forum www.faktiskt.se where we "Hifi nerds" are 
discussing and experimenting with http://www.linkwitzlab.com/thor-intro.htm 
deployed in large scale, the largest installations I have read about are with 8 
to 16 Subwoofers on the front speaker wall.
Also other solutions are discussed.
For example this forum thread 
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faktiskt.se%2Fmodules.php%3Fname%3DForums%26file%3Dviewtopic%26t%3D36564%26list%3Dfull
 where we are discussing the reproduction of the frequency range 5 to 80Hz with 
low distorsion and a price performance aspect.
I notice google translate gives up a bit in to the thread, so may better to 
read page by page.

I am a bit more modes and I am thinking of building 4 of these 
http://www.faktiskt.se/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=36647&list=full 
and thrusting the room gain to extend the -3 dB point in room to around 20Hz.

Bo-Erik


  

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Eric Benjamin
Sent: den 4 maj 2011 19:18
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

> from psychoacoustics we cannot really hear directions of sound below 
> 80 Hz
I know that it is frequently written, but it's not true. Of the two 
localization mechanisms active at low frequencies, Interaural Time Differences 
(ITDs) are the ones that give useable localization cues in free space.  The 
time difference depends only on the direction of the source and not on the 
frequency. Unofrtunately there is very little information in the 
psychoacoustical literature about low-frequency localization.  They consider 
250 Hz to be 'low' 
and 100 Hz to be very low.  Maybe some day I'll do some research on that...

It is true that the threshold of hearing rises substantially at low 
frequencies, and for that reason localization acuity decreases.

Here's what I think really happens.  For low frequency sounds reproduced in 
ordinary rooms, the first arrival at the listener's two ears naturally has ITDs 
that correspond to the direction of the source.  After a short period of time, 
reinforcement of the sound by reflections from the room boundaries changes the 
phase of the sounds at the ears.  This can be more easily seen by considering 
the modal structure of the room at low frequencies.  The room has relatively 
few modes and the sound wave quickly becomes constrained to travel in the 
modes. Because of the relative energy of the transverse, oblique, and 
tangential modes, the sound effectively "comes from" the direction of the mode, 
not of the source.  In practice, large ITDs AND ILDs are seen at the listener's 
ears.  As a result, the percept will probably be that the sound is coming from 
a direction other than its actual source.  This is what I actually hear when 
using low frequency test signals in real rooms.

But there's more going on that that.  Almost always, the low-frequency sound 
has actually a fairly broadband spectrum.  With that sort of signal the 
auditory system clearly evaluates several cues as to the source direction and 
gives a best estimate of the actual direction of the source.

There are good reasons to use several subwoofers in a multichannel reproduction 
system.  At least the following two papers support that idea.

[1] Subkey, A., Cabrera, D., Ferguson, S.; "Localization and Image Size Effects 
for Low Frequency Sound", AES preprint 6325 (2005 May) [2] Martens, W., "The 
impact of decorrelated low-frequency reproduction on auditory spatial imagery: 
are two subwoofers better than one?" presented at the AES16th International 
Conference, Rovaniemi, Finland, (1999 April)
 
Having said that, I only have one (large!) subwoofer in my multichannel 
liste

Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

>From 
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_localization#Evaluation_for_low_frequencies

Evaluation for low frequencies

For frequencies below 800 Hz, the dimensions of the head (ear distance 21.5 cm, 
corresponding to an interaural time delay of 625 µs), are smaller than the half 
wavelength of the sound waves. So the auditory system can determine phase 
delays between both ears without confusion. Interaural level differences are 
very low in this frequency range, especially below about 200 Hz, so a precise 
evaluation of the input direction is nearly impossible on the basis of level 
differences alone. As the frequency drops below 80 Hz it becomes difficult or 
impossible to use either time difference or level difference to determine a 
sound's lateral source, because the phase difference between the ears becomes 
too small for a directional evaluation.

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: den 4 maj 2011 13:41
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

 
Yes, I have a few woofers available BUT according to what I understand from 
psychoacoustics we cannot really hear directions of sound below 80 Hz, as the 
ear/brain is changing method of decoding soundwaves between 80 to 100 Hz?
So do I really need more than a pair driven in mono (or 4) to even out the 
excitation of the room modes? 

If I where to add a low frequency decoder how should I do that?

Is it not so that the speaker feed to all of the 10 speakers are in phase for 
frequencies lower than Some "undefined" frequency? 
That is using Ambdec?

Should I have a highpass filter before or after the decoder for the 10 "small" 
speakers, if I add a low frequency feed, either mono or decoded?

Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Peter Lennox
Sent: den 4 maj 2011 11:32
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

Quick suggestion: - as you're having to use more than 8 channels anyway, you're 
likely to be using a 16 channel card; thus, you would have some channels left 
to decode (horizontal only) to 3 or 4 subs

Dr Peter Lennox
School of Technology
University of Derby, UK
tel: 01332 593155
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk  


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: 04 May 2011 08:09
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

 

I still want to suggest a setup that I will soon have in operation, I have 
written about it before.
It uses 10 channels, it is a hexagon in the horizontal plane with a speakers at 
front back.
The Z is handled by for speakers, placed where the 4 hexagon side speakers will 
end up if the Hexagon is rotated 90 degrees around a axis through the front and 
back hexagon speakers.

Fons A has created a ambdec for me of this setup.

I have the possibility to have all speakers except the 2 floor speakers 
permanently mounted due to my room geometry. I have the 2 floor speakers 
mounted on a long wooden plank letting me getting them in place quickly.

I have been rethinking my amplifier setup and will now use 3 modules of 4 
channel sure swiched amps instead of 2 Home theater amplifiers.
The shure amp modules (4 x 100W) cost 98USD including a switched power supply, 
an will give 30 watts per 8 ohm speakers, I will only be using 2 power supplies 
so the total material cost is at the moment 3 x 44 US + 2 x 48 USD, that is 
less than 240 USD.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=320-302

I will be using second hand Kef KHT-2005.2 "Eggs" as speakers.

It is a bit of a "bother" that 10 instead of 8 channels are used, when it comes 
to the sound card setups...

Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Aaron Heller
Sent: den 3 maj 2011 20:04
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fons Adriaensen  wrote:
> On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 07:15:29PM +0530, umashankar mantravadi wrote:
>>
>> in fact angelo recommended that i arrange the eight speakers as two 
>> crossed squares. two speakers in front and back, and four speakers 
>> mid bottom left and right and mid top left and right, the only 
>> problem is i do not see a readymade decoder
>
> A variation on this is an horizontal rectangle, 1 unit wide and 1.73 
> deep, and a vertical rectangle in the YZ plane 1 unit high and 1.73 wide.
> Or the same rotated 90 degrees. Looking from above you see an hexagon.
>
> This somewhat improves the rE for horizontal directions (not 

Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
Yes, I have a few woofers available BUT according to what I understand
from psychoacoustics we cannot really hear directions of sound below 80 Hz,
as the ear/brain is changing method of decoding soundwaves between 80 to 100 Hz?
So do I really need more than a pair driven in mono (or 4) to even out the 
excitation of the room modes? 

If I where to add a low frequency decoder how should I do that?

Is it not so that the speaker feed to all of the 10 speakers are in phase for 
frequencies lower than 
Some "undefined" frequency? 
That is using Ambdec?

Should I have a highpass filter before or after the decoder for the 10 "small" 
speakers,
if I add a low frequency feed, either mono or decoded?

Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Peter Lennox
Sent: den 4 maj 2011 11:32
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

Quick suggestion: - as you're having to use more than 8 channels anyway, you're 
likely to be using a 16 channel card; thus, you would have some channels left 
to decode (horizontal only) to 3 or 4 subs

Dr Peter Lennox
School of Technology
University of Derby, UK
tel: 01332 593155
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk  


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Bo-Erik Sandholm
Sent: 04 May 2011 08:09
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

 

I still want to suggest a setup that I will soon have in operation, I have 
written about it before.
It uses 10 channels, it is a hexagon in the horizontal plane with a speakers at 
front back.
The Z is handled by for speakers, placed where the 4 hexagon side speakers will 
end up if the 
Hexagon is rotated 90 degrees around a axis through the front and back hexagon 
speakers.

Fons A has created a ambdec for me of this setup.

I have the possibility to have all speakers except the 2 floor speakers 
permanently mounted due to 
my room geometry. I have the 2 floor speakers mounted on a long wooden plank 
letting me getting them in place quickly.

I have been rethinking my amplifier setup and will now use 3 modules of 4 
channel sure swiched amps instead of 2 Home theater amplifiers.
The shure amp modules (4 x 100W) cost 98USD including a switched power supply, 
an will give 30 watts per 8 ohm speakers,
I will only be using 2 power supplies so the total material cost is at the 
moment 3 x 44 US + 2 x 48 USD, that is less than 240 USD.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=320-302

I will be using second hand Kef KHT-2005.2 "Eggs" as speakers.

It is a bit of a "bother" that 10 instead of 8 channels are used, when it comes 
to the sound card setups...

Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Aaron Heller
Sent: den 3 maj 2011 20:04
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fons Adriaensen  wrote:
> On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 07:15:29PM +0530, umashankar mantravadi wrote:
>>
>> in fact angelo recommended that i arrange the eight speakers as two 
>> crossed squares. two speakers in front and back, and four speakers 
>> mid bottom left and right and mid top left and right, the only 
>> problem is i do not see a readymade decoder
>
> A variation on this is an horizontal rectangle, 1 unit wide and 1.73 
> deep, and a vertical rectangle in the YZ plane 1 unit high and 1.73 wide.
> Or the same rotated 90 degrees. Looking from above you see an hexagon.
>
> This somewhat improves the rE for horizontal directions (not much), at 
> the expense of all others. Anything outside the +/- 30 degrees 
> elevation region will become very fuzzy.

I had one of these set up at home for a couple of days and found it better than 
a horizontal hexagon.  The impression of height is a
welcome addition to the sense of envelopment.   I had a fader set up
in Bidule so you could change the Z gain to compare horizontal-only with 
periphonic. The entire listening panel (my son and I) preferred having the 
height info, but the rest of the family didn't appreciate having a couple of 
ladders in the living room.  I also tried it with the vertical rectangle in the 
XZ plane.  That works too.  Contact me off list if you want the Ambdec config 
files I used.

Aaron Heller 
Menlo Park, CA  US
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

_
The Uni

Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale - Speaker configs.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 

I still want to suggest a setup that I will soon have in operation, I have 
written about it before.
It uses 10 channels, it is a hexagon in the horizontal plane with a speakers at 
front back.
The Z is handled by for speakers, placed where the 4 hexagon side speakers will 
end up if the 
Hexagon is rotated 90 degrees around a axis through the front and back hexagon 
speakers.

Fons A has created a ambdec for me of this setup.

I have the possibility to have all speakers except the 2 floor speakers 
permanently mounted due to 
my room geometry. I have the 2 floor speakers mounted on a long wooden plank 
letting me getting them in place quickly.

I have been rethinking my amplifier setup and will now use 3 modules of 4 
channel sure swiched amps instead of 2 Home theater amplifiers.
The shure amp modules (4 x 100W) cost 98USD including a switched power supply, 
an will give 30 watts per 8 ohm speakers,
I will only be using 2 power supplies so the total material cost is at the 
moment 3 x 44 US + 2 x 48 USD, that is less than 240 USD.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=320-302

I will be using second hand Kef KHT-2005.2 "Eggs" as speakers.

It is a bit of a "bother" that 10 instead of 8 channels are used, when it comes 
to the sound card setups...

Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Aaron Heller
Sent: den 3 maj 2011 20:04
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fons Adriaensen  wrote:
> On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 07:15:29PM +0530, umashankar mantravadi wrote:
>>
>> in fact angelo recommended that i arrange the eight speakers as two 
>> crossed squares. two speakers in front and back, and four speakers 
>> mid bottom left and right and mid top left and right, the only 
>> problem is i do not see a readymade decoder
>
> A variation on this is an horizontal rectangle, 1 unit wide and 1.73 
> deep, and a vertical rectangle in the YZ plane 1 unit high and 1.73 wide.
> Or the same rotated 90 degrees. Looking from above you see an hexagon.
>
> This somewhat improves the rE for horizontal directions (not much), at 
> the expense of all others. Anything outside the +/- 30 degrees 
> elevation region will become very fuzzy.

I had one of these set up at home for a couple of days and found it better than 
a horizontal hexagon.  The impression of height is a
welcome addition to the sense of envelopment.   I had a fader set up
in Bidule so you could change the Z gain to compare horizontal-only with 
periphonic. The entire listening panel (my son and I) preferred having the 
height info, but the rest of the family didn't appreciate having a couple of 
ladders in the living room.  I also tried it with the vertical rectangle in the 
XZ plane.  That works too.  Contact me off list if you want the Ambdec config 
files I used.

Aaron Heller 
Menlo Park, CA  US
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

We still have to see a complete software package for convinient playback of 
music in uhj or amb format.
A player that support playlist and is able to play 2 and 4 channel uhj or amb 
files transparently,
And also is supporting/integrating a ambisonic decoder, either a vst or jack 
based one.

I do NOT consider a DAW like Reaper, Ardour such a player.

- Bo-Erik


-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Jörn Nettingsmeier
Sent: den 29 april 2011 14:58
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Minim AD7 for sale

On 04/29/2011 02:30 PM, Michael Graves wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:28:06 +0300, Eero Aro wrote:
> 
>> Hi All
>>
>> A Minim AD7 Ambisonic decoder seems to be for sale on a Finnish 
>> discussion forum:
>>
>> http://www.hifiharrastajat.org/forum/index.php?topic=1037823.0
>>
>> I don't know the person selling the decoder.
>>
>> Eero
> 
> Could any one comment on the utility of this device? That is, if I'm 
> starting from scratch to build a small residential ambi playback 
> environment would I want it? or should I go another route?

i'd say unless you are very traditional in what goes into your hifi stack, get 
a small, quiet computer with a good soundcard and do your decoding in software. 
much more future-proof, cheaper, and more flexible. unless you have stacks of 
UHJ-encoded LPs or CDs, where a dedicated old-school hardware box might 
actually realize its potential for userfriendliness.


--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister (VDT)

http://stackingdwarves.net
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Re: [Sursound] Reflections from the wooden floor on an ambisonic room..

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

> The modification I was thinking of would be to bring the 6 speakers on stands 
> into a hexagon on a plane. 
> Why? It makes it easy > to set up--but more importantly, I'd now have two 
> speakers set up at +/-60deg 
> for stereo compatible playback. OR, 
> it is also possible to do a bit more rearranging (rotating and adding 2 more 
> speakers) to include a 5.0 array in the set-up.

I have the setup that you might be thinking of, that is a hexagon with one 
speaker at front center,
The +- 60 degrees speakers works fine for stereo if one moves the listening 
position back from the "ambisonic hotspot"
For stereo and surround listening.
The +- 120 degree speakers maps fine into 5.1 back channels as 5.1 back 
speakers really are back/side speakers.
The radius of the setup is probably limited by the flore to roof distance.

If you place 4 speakers at +- 60 and +- 120 degrees vertically referenced to 
the center front speaker you will get a
10 channel ambisonic system with height, 
Fons has already created a decoder setup for ambdec of this layout for me.

According to Fons it is not a bad setup refering to the symmetry, and for the 
power amp you can use 2 home teater amplifiers with external decoder inputs.
You have to get the volume control/gain setting identical for this to work well.

I speculate more symmetric solution would be to use 4 speakers on the floor and 
4 in the roof, 
Placement defined by "rotating" the side speakers in the hexagon +-60 degrees 
with the front and back speakers as rotational axis.

This will also enable construction of a symetric layout with a slighty wider 
radius if the radius is limited by room height.
But this will require 14 channels.

- Bosse

 



-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Joseph Anderson
Sent: den 25 mars 2011 12:10
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Reflections from the wodden floor on an ambisonic room..

Hello David,

This sounds great! Congrats in getting the resources together to make this 
happen.


I see there have been a number of comments regarding possible set ups--I'll add 
a few thoughts here as I've been thinking about putting together a 2nd order 
system. I was thinking of something along the lines of either an icosahedron, 
or a modified icosahedron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icosahedron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Icosahedron_model.JPG

Placing speakers at the vertices means you'd need 12. The 2nd link above 
illustrates an arrangement for a true icosahedron. You'd have 3 speakers on the 
floor, 3 on the ceiling, and the remaining 6 on stands. (These 6 would be by 
the yellow struts in the photo link above.)

The modification I was thinking of would be to bring the 6 speakers on stands 
into a hexagon on a plane. Why? It makes it easy to set up--but more 
importantly, I'd now have two speakers set up at +/-60deg for stereo compatible 
playback. OR, it is also possible to do a bit more rearranging (rotating and 
adding 2 more speakers) to include a 5.0 array in the set-up.

--
Re the floor

I'd think about throwing some carpets or rugs down. Reducing reflections can 
make a big difference.



My best,
Jo


Joseph Anderson

27 Hungate, Pickering, North Yorkshire, YO18 7DL, UK 




On 24 Mar 2011, at 3:15 pm, david monacchi wrote:

> we're planning to build in Pesaro-Italy a small ambisonic studio with 13 
> loudspeakers (full 3D - 4@-45°, 4@0°, 4@+45°, 1@90°).. We're now in the 
> process of moving walls, treating acoustically the room, etc.. The room will 
> be 5.00 x 4.60 x 3.20h and we are planning to treat it to be as more 'dead' 
> as possible..
> 
> In order to have a 'pleasant' space, we're thinking to put a wodden floor 
> which, to a certain degree, will also help absorbing some low frequencies..
> 
> My question is: 
> considering that the room will be semi-anechoic, is the reflection from the 
> wodden floor really compromizing for the correct soundfied reconstruction? 
> Are there studies that you know with experimental data, or simply your direct 
> experience on this?



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Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics setup

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 
Hi
As long as you have B-format as your source the only difference is your decoder 
setup, it is in the decoder
You match convert the b-format to speaker feeds.

The simplest way to process mono to b-format is probably the VST mixer modules 
Dave Malham
In particular the bpan to place the sound in 3 dimensions
http://www.dmalham.freeserve.co.uk/bpan_help.html
- bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Anthony Palomba
Sent: den 16 mars 2011 14:10
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics setup

I am very interested in this as well. I would like to eventually add 
multichannel capabilities to my performances.

I would also add the question...

If I want the setup to be scalable, that is to be able to go from a 4 channel 
cube to a 12 channel configuration, what do I need to keep in mind?




Anthony


On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 6:23 AM, Darren - Bradley < 
i...@sacredresonance.com.au> wrote:

> Hi I am looking at recording 4 mono tracks with different samples on 
> them and then (not recording in ambisonic format) just in 'Ableton 
> Live' - doing an ambisonic setup with four speakers  in a cube (room) 
> > to create a better setup then quadaphonic
>
> what do people suggest to do this I would like to route 4 mono tracks 
> out of Albeton Live into say max/msp or audiomulch then output into 
> ambisonics setup?
>
> How do I do this ?
>
> Thanks
> Darren
> Adelaide
>
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Re: [Sursound] good quality low noise yet miraculously cheap cardiod/unidirectional microphones ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The QTC CM3 is not the same as Line Audio CM3

 http://www.lineaudio.se/linemicdata.htm

Yes you can buy chinese mic pairs for £34 but quality is not as consistent as 
for the LineAudio mics.
The Line Audio Mic's are probably more selected and individially tuned than the 
QTC ones.

The Line audio do have a little more noise than but the now spectra in not so 
intrusive.

Regards
Bo-Erik
-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: den 17 januari 2011 21:46
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] good quality low noise yet miraculously cheap 
cardiod/unidirectional microphones ?

Thanks for all the suggestions - just reiterate this is for a bespoke sound 
installation and I will not be using current ambisonic formats or tetrahedral 
microphones but require min five microphones tied together (Ive tried and 
tested this over the years and works best for my purposes - though I would be 
happy to discuss the pros and cons of this it on another thread if anyone is 
interested) .
Bo-Erik Sandholm - can this really be true :

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR331311

 Two microphones for £34 ?? and they are good - has Jesus returned 
to Earth  ? Whats the catch 




On 17 January 2011 17:00,  wrote:

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>
>   1. Re: Sursound Digest, Vol 30, Issue 10 (Aart Nienhuis)
>   2. Re: good quality low noise yet miraculously cheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (Ronald C.F. Antony)
>   3. Re: Sursound Digest, Vol 30, Issue 10 (John Leonard)
>   4. Re: Available UHJ encoders? (Geoffrey Barton)
>   5. Re: good quality low noise yet miraculously   cheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (Bo-Erik Sandholm)
>   6. Re: good quality low noise yet miraculously   cheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (Ronald C.F. Antony)
>   7. Re: good quality low noise yet miraculously   cheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (J?rn Nettingsmeier)
>   8. Re: good quality low noise yet miraculously   cheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (Paul Hodges)
>   9. Re: good quality low noise yet miraculously   cheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (J?rn Nettingsmeier)
>  10. Re: good quality low noise yetmiraculouslycheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (Ronald C.F. Antony)
>  11. Re: good quality low noise yetmiraculouslycheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (J?rn Nettingsmeier)
>  12. Re: good quality low noise yetmiraculouslycheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (J?rn Nettingsmeier)
>  13. Re: good quality low noiseyet miraculouslycheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (Ronald C.F. Antony)
>  14. Re: good quality low noiseyet miraculouslycheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (J?rn Nettingsmeier)
>  15. Re: good quality low noise yetmiraculouslycheap
>  cardiod/unidirectional microphones ? (Ronald C.F. Antony)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:44:17 +0100
> From: Aart Nienhuis 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 30, Issue 10
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <20110116174419.37ff85631...@mail.music.vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
> >
> >
> >Message: 6
> >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 19:53:05 +0100
> >From: J?rn Nettingsmeier  
> >Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 30, Issue 9
> >To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> >Message-ID: <4d31ed11.1060...@stackingdwarves.net>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> >On 01/15/2011 06:24 PM, Aart Nienhuis wrote:
> >
> > >> oh come on. decent webspace is cheap, there is no reason to annoy
> users
> > >> with that kind of crap. plus i was using a friend's windows
> >

Re: [Sursound] good quality low noise yet miraculously cheap cardiod/unidirectional microphones ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 http://www.lineaudio.se/linemicdata.htm
CM3 is extremely well regarded here in sweden, and a won a recent comparision 
in 
The stockholm based "Ljud tekniska sällskapet" 

Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On 
Behalf Of John Leonard
Sent: den 14 januari 2011 17:24
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] good quality low noise yet miraculously cheap 
cardiod/unidirectional microphones ?

Can you specify a target price?

Thanks,

John


On 14 Jan 2011, at 15:52, Augustine Leudar wrote:

> Hello - could anyone recommend a good uni/cardioid directional 
> microphones for use with the Tascam DR 680 ?

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[Sursound] Available UHJ encoders?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I like the way a tetramic recording sounds in UHJ stereo but my work flow is 
not really convinient.
 
I have a windows commandline encoder for B-format to UHJ that I use, but I have 
forgotten where I found it.

Do anyone have a pointer to a jack enabled UHJ encoder, settings for VVMIC or a 
VST plugin that can encode to UHJ?

At the moment I use Reaper on windows to record, but I can dual boot to AVlinux 
for processing. 

Regards
Bo-Erik 
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