Re: [Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

[Charlie Richmond]

SoundMan-Server can aggregate multiple sound cards in the same computer so
that you can use many different (or the same) types of audio interfaces.
 For example you can put up to 6 MOTU PCI-e interfaces and/or and up to 9
RME MADI cards into a single computer for up to 576 outputs (and inputs).
 We have done both of these and more can probably be done but we haven't
tested it beyond this.

We have a rack mount computer that can accommodate this number of cards and
it is being used in the Brazilian National Opera and megachurches in the
US.

* Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design - Skype: charlierichmond
* http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com
 "Performance
for the Long Run"
* SoundMan-Server & AudioBox II - Virtual Sound System Core Audio Engine
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charlierichmond *
Facebook:
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* Primary and much preferred method of communication is via skype



On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 03:53, Dave Malham  wrote:

> Definitely agree, we use multiple Motu's a lot. and they do the job just
> fine - tho the RME stuff is great as well.
>
> Just a note on synchronisation - we all use sigma-delta converters these
> days and they, especially with the older designs, can have significant
> latencies. Moreover, in terms of your overall system, these can effectively
> be variable. This is because there is usually a dependency on when the chip
> comes out of reset on power-up. Within a single multichannel box there's no
> real problem as all the converters, even if they're on separate chips, see
> the same reset time (unless someone's really screwed up the design) but
> with multiple boxes this is much more difficult to ensure unless it is
> embedded in the communications protocol somehow.
>
>Dave (slightly hung-over after the post-conference drinks...)
>
> On 26/03/2012 00:12, Miguel Negrao wrote:
>
>> A 24/03/2012, às 05:58, Eric Benjamin escreveu:
>>
>>  currently thinking of using PCI or PCI express cards

>>> Any time that there are multiple devices the chances of having them be
>>> offset in
>>> time increases dramatically.  I've really had a lot of bad experiences,
>>> both
>>> with multiple PCI audio devices and with multiple external ADAT devices.
>>>  I'm
>>> thinking of one system I saw a few years ago that had three ADAT cards
>>> in the
>>> computer to get 24 channels of output.  In that system I occasionally saw
>>> offsets of greater than a millisecond!  But more recently I've seen a
>>> system
>>> with four MOTU 24I/O devices for 96 channels of output, and that system
>>> had
>>> perfect synchronization between devices.
>>>
>> If it’s the system that I’m thinking about, not  only that, but also
>> synchronization with another computer with another 4 MOTU sound cards,
>> making a total of 192 channels. :-)
>>
>> best,
>> Miguel Negrão
>> __**_
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>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursound
>>
>
> --
>  These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer
> /***
> **/
> /* Dave Malham   
> http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/**research/dave-malham/*/
> /* Music Research Centre */
> /* Department of Music"http://music.york.ac.uk/"; */
> /* The University of York  Phone 01904 322448*/
> /* Heslington  Fax   01904 322450*/
> /* York YO10 5DD */
> /* UK   'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'   */
> /*
> "http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/**mustech/3d_audio/"
> */
> /***
> **/
>
> __**_
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Re: [Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

[Dave Malham]

Definitely agree, we use multiple Motu's a lot. and they do the job just fine - tho the RME stuff is 
great as well.


Just a note on synchronisation - we all use sigma-delta converters these days and they, especially 
with the older designs, can have significant latencies. Moreover, in terms of your overall system, 
these can effectively be variable. This is because there is usually a dependency on when the chip 
comes out of reset on power-up. Within a single multichannel box there's no real problem as all the 
converters, even if they're on separate chips, see the same reset time (unless someone's really 
screwed up the design) but with multiple boxes this is much more difficult to ensure unless it is 
embedded in the communications protocol somehow.


Dave (slightly hung-over after the post-conference drinks...)

On 26/03/2012 00:12, Miguel Negrao wrote:

A 24/03/2012, às 05:58, Eric Benjamin escreveu:


currently thinking of using PCI or PCI express cards

Any time that there are multiple devices the chances of having them be offset in
time increases dramatically.  I've really had a lot of bad experiences, both
with multiple PCI audio devices and with multiple external ADAT devices.  I'm
thinking of one system I saw a few years ago that had three ADAT cards in the
computer to get 24 channels of output.  In that system I occasionally saw
offsets of greater than a millisecond!  But more recently I've seen a system
with four MOTU 24I/O devices for 96 channels of output, and that system had
perfect synchronization between devices.

If it’s the system that I’m thinking about, not  only that, but also 
synchronization with another computer with another 4 MOTU sound cards, making a 
total of 192 channels. :-)

best,
Miguel Negrão
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--
 These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer
/*/
/* Dave Malham   http://music.york.ac.uk/staff/research/dave-malham/ */
/* Music Research Centre */
/* Department of Music"http://music.york.ac.uk/";   */
/* The University of York  Phone 01904 322448*/
/* Heslington  Fax   01904 322450*/
/* York YO10 5DD */
/* UK   'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'   */
/*"http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/"; */
/*/

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Re: [Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

[Ross Bencina]

On 27/03/2012 4:01 AM, Michael McCrea wrote:

In terms of stability of the cards, you really get what you pay for.  RME,
for example, has been superb for years–though at a price.


+1 for RME HDSPe MADI
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Re: [Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

[Michael McCrea]

In terms of stability of the cards, you really get what you pay for.  RME,
for example, has been superb for years–though at a price.
An economical solution, say the Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe, for example,
has been spotty in connectivity and clocking and was soon sunsetted after
it's release, and still left the cost of DA conversion down the chain..
 We've used the MOTU 24 I/O system with great results thus far (2 units at
96k, 48 channels), and at a middle ground in terms of price.  As you begin
to expand the system and bridge multiple devices, you'll want to consider a
dedicated clock, such as Apogee's Big Ben.

Cheers,
Mike

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Miguel Negrao <
miguel.negrao-li...@friendlyvirus.org> wrote:

>
> A 24/03/2012, às 05:58, Eric Benjamin escreveu:
>
> >> currently thinking of using PCI or PCI express cards
> > Any time that there are multiple devices the chances of having them be
> offset in
> > time increases dramatically.  I've really had a lot of bad experiences,
> both
> > with multiple PCI audio devices and with multiple external ADAT devices.
>  I'm
> > thinking of one system I saw a few years ago that had three ADAT cards
> in the
> > computer to get 24 channels of output.  In that system I occasionally saw
> > offsets of greater than a millisecond!  But more recently I've seen a
> system
> > with four MOTU 24I/O devices for 96 channels of output, and that system
> had
> > perfect synchronization between devices.
>
> If it’s the system that I’m thinking about, not  only that, but also
> synchronization with another computer with another 4 MOTU sound cards,
> making a total of 192 channels. :-)
>
> best,
> Miguel Negrão
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
>
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Re: [Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

[Miguel Negrao]

A 24/03/2012, às 05:58, Eric Benjamin escreveu:

>> currently thinking of using PCI or PCI express cards 
> Any time that there are multiple devices the chances of having them be offset 
> in 
> time increases dramatically.  I've really had a lot of bad experiences, both 
> with multiple PCI audio devices and with multiple external ADAT devices.  I'm 
> thinking of one system I saw a few years ago that had three ADAT cards in the 
> computer to get 24 channels of output.  In that system I occasionally saw 
> offsets of greater than a millisecond!  But more recently I've seen a system 
> with four MOTU 24I/O devices for 96 channels of output, and that system had 
> perfect synchronization between devices.

If it’s the system that I’m thinking about, not  only that, but also 
synchronization with another computer with another 4 MOTU sound cards, making a 
total of 192 channels. :-)

best,
Miguel Negrão
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Re: [Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

[Jörn Nettingsmeier]

On 03/24/2012 01:11 AM, Augustine Leudar wrote:

Hello all,
I am looking to build a wavefield synthesis setup. I am looking to use
about 32 channels more or less.
I am currently thinking of using PCI or PCI express cards as they a reputed
to be faster than USB/Firewire. The sound cards and drivers need to be
relatively stable as it will be playing 32 channels at the same time.
I am aware of Motus stuff but was wondering if anyone knew of any cheaper
solutions ? I was wondering if there were any ADAT only output sound cards
- I could then fit some Behringer DA converters, Someone also suggested a
M-Audio Lightbridge but its firewire and I dont know how stable the drivers
are = could it handle 32 channels simultaneously  ?
any suggestions appreciated,


for 32 channels i see two options: rme raydat (4x adat io), or, rather 
more future-proof, an rme hdspe madi and either a 32x ad/da such as the 
directout andiamo (very affordable and excellent quality), or a madi to 
adat bridge such as the one by rme, or the recently released directout 
exbox adat (converts madi i/o to 8x adat io).




--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT

http://stackingdwarves.net

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Re: [Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

[Eric Benjamin]

> currently thinking of using PCI or PCI express cards 
Any time that there are multiple devices the chances of having them be offset 
in 
time increases dramatically.  I've really had a lot of bad experiences, both 
with multiple PCI audio devices and with multiple external ADAT devices.  I'm 
thinking of one system I saw a few years ago that had three ADAT cards in the 
computer to get 24 channels of output.  In that system I occasionally saw 
offsets of greater than a millisecond!  But more recently I've seen a system 
with four MOTU 24I/O devices for 96 channels of output, and that system had 
perfect synchronization between devices.

And of course ASIO drivers are a must.

Eric



- Original Message 
From: Augustine Leudar 
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Sent: Fri, March 23, 2012 5:11:22 PM
Subject: [Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

Hello all,
I am looking to build a wavefield synthesis setup. I am looking to use
about 32 channels more or less.
I am currently thinking of using PCI or PCI express cards as they a reputed
to be faster than USB/Firewire. The sound cards and drivers need to be
relatively stable as it will be playing 32 channels at the same time.
I am aware of Motus stuff but was wondering if anyone knew of any cheaper
solutions ? I was wondering if there were any ADAT only output sound cards
- I could then fit some Behringer DA converters, Someone also suggested a
M-Audio Lightbridge but its firewire and I dont know how stable the drivers
are = could it handle 32 channels simultaneously  ?
any suggestions appreciated,
cheers,
Augustine
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Re: [Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

[Michael Chapman]

> Hello all,
> I am looking to build a wavefield synthesis setup. I am looking to use
> about 32 channels more or less.

OS ??

M$ / Mac / 'nux / ... / ... ?

Michael


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[Sursound] 32 (ish) channel soundcard for wavedield synthesis ?

[Augustine Leudar]

Hello all,
I am looking to build a wavefield synthesis setup. I am looking to use
about 32 channels more or less.
I am currently thinking of using PCI or PCI express cards as they a reputed
to be faster than USB/Firewire. The sound cards and drivers need to be
relatively stable as it will be playing 32 channels at the same time.
I am aware of Motus stuff but was wondering if anyone knew of any cheaper
solutions ? I was wondering if there were any ADAT only output sound cards
- I could then fit some Behringer DA converters, Someone also suggested a
M-Audio Lightbridge but its firewire and I dont know how stable the drivers
are = could it handle 32 channels simultaneously  ?
any suggestions appreciated,
cheers,
Augustine
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