Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[David Pickett]

I dont think I was here then, and the count may 
have increased since.  I have 4.0 with B and 
control it from Samplitude or VLC and an RME 
UFX.  My room is also small, but good 4.0 is 
better than any stereo (and I have examples of the best of that).


David

At 13:15 28-10-15, John Leonard wrote:
>
>I asked this question on the list a few years ago about who had
>properly configured systems at home, rather than in a studio or
>university. There were about three of us, as I recall. Mine is Nuendo,
>feeding a Metric Halo ULN-8 and a Blue Sky MediaDesk 5.1 system,
>although my room’s not exactly spacious, so it’s all a bit close.
>
>Regards,
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>Please note new email address & direct line phone number
>email: j...@johnleonard.uk
>phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942
>
>
>> On 28 Oct 2015, at 09:19, Augustine Leudar 
 wrote:

>>
>> I colleague of a colleague went to a spatial audio /surround sound
>> conference recently - there was a fairly large crowd. During his talk he
>> asked people who had a 5.1 or other surround system at home to put their
>> hands up - only around five people did, he then  asked those who had it set
>> up properly to keep their hands up - noone did 
>
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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[John Leonard]

I asked this question on the list a few years ago about who had properly 
configured systems at home, rather than in a studio or university. There were 
about three of us, as I recall. Mine is Nuendo, feeding a Metric Halo ULN-8 and 
a Blue Sky MediaDesk 5.1 system, although my room’s not exactly spacious, so 
it’s all a bit close.

Regards,

John




Please note new email address & direct line phone number
email: j...@johnleonard.uk
phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942


> On 28 Oct 2015, at 09:19, Augustine Leudar  wrote:
> 
> I colleague of a colleague went to a spatial audio /surround sound
> conference recently - there was a fairly large crowd. During his talk he
> asked people who had a 5.1 or other surround system at home to put their
> hands up - only around five people did, he then  asked those who had it set
> up properly to keep their hands up - noone did 

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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[Augustine Leudar]

I colleague of a colleague went to a spatial audio /surround sound
conference recently - there was a fairly large crowd. During his talk he
asked people who had a 5.1 or other surround system at home to put their
hands up - only around five people did, he then  asked those who had it set
up properly to keep their hands up - noone did 

On 27 October 2015 at 21:21, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> Hi Augustime.
>
> Browsers that are able to play multichannel streams can have their
> output downmixed by the OS. So, yes, Chrome can play surround
> streams without downmixing, but we cannot assume that target audiences
> can always setup their systems properly.
>
> As for Android, phones are (mostly) limited to stereo. But Android can
> play multichannel streams on devices that have a multichannel output
> (like televisions sets or boxes) through HDMI, TOSLINK, or USB sound
> modules. More details here: https://source.android.com/devices/audio/
>
> --
> Marc
>
>
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 22:12:33 +0100,
> Augustine Leudar  wrote:
>
> > I think you are.  So browsers just downmix 5.1 or 7.1 to stereo ? And
> > treat any other multichannel files the same ?  And android chrome can
> > actually play 5.1 without down mixing ? That's odd because phones are
> > not my first choice for playing multichannel  audio. It's a mess all
> > right .
> >
> > On Friday, 23 October 2015, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Augustime.
> > >
> > > I used Ambisonics as an example (or a "use case"); all surround
> > > formats requires more than 2 channels (appart from UHJ). The
> > > problem is that Firefox (and other browsers) don't support more
> > > than 2 channels. Sometimes the problem is on the device or the
> > > operating system; although Chrome supports more than 2 channels, on
> > > the Android OS the number of channels available to Chrome is
> > > limited to 2.
> > >
> > > Worst: most audio API and codecs *assume* that "multichannel" means
> > > something like "5.1" or "7.1", and apply default rules. Audio API
> > > (and codecs too) should just expose their channels in the order of
> > > the audio stream, and not try to decide what is the surround scheme
> > > by looking at the number of channels.
> > >
> > > There's a reason why multichannel audio is so difficult; in order to
> > > help programmers, most audio API are making things more confusing...
> > >
> > > I guess I'm not really answering your question...
> > > --
> > > Marc
> > >
> > > On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 21:32:14 +0100
> > > Augustine Leudar > wrote:
> > >
> > > > What about other forms of surround sound that are not ambisonics ?
> > > >
> > > > On Friday, 23 October 2015, Marc Lavallée  > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The problem is that Mozilla (and maybe others) just need to fix
> > > > > (or better document) their version of the Web Audio API. Then
> > > > > it'd be possible to decode ambisonic at any order. Chrome does
> > > > > a better job, but it's (hopefully) a temporary monopoly, since
> > > > > Mozilla is organising the Web Audio Conference.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Marc
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:37:06 +0100
> > > > > Dave Malham 
> > > > > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think the problem is the fact that at least one of the
> > > > > > decoders needed is proprietary so costs money to include
> > > > > > which makes it difficult for free browsers, if not backed by
> > > > > > mega corporations. Of course, I could well be wrong (again)
> > > > > > but it is a shame when Mozilla loses it's position as the
> > > > > > most standard compliant browser, especially when it impacts
> > > > > > audio.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 22 October 2015 at 13:44, David Pickett  > > 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround
> > > > > > > recordings using the HTML5  tag is 3.5 years old.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the
> > > > > > > PC, so I use Chrome for multi-channel aac files.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have
> > > > > > > caught up in the last three years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > David
>
>
> ___
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>



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An HTML 

Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[Marc Lavallée]

Hi Augustime.

Browsers that are able to play multichannel streams can have their
output downmixed by the OS. So, yes, Chrome can play surround
streams without downmixing, but we cannot assume that target audiences
can always setup their systems properly.

As for Android, phones are (mostly) limited to stereo. But Android can
play multichannel streams on devices that have a multichannel output
(like televisions sets or boxes) through HDMI, TOSLINK, or USB sound
modules. More details here: https://source.android.com/devices/audio/

--
Marc


On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 22:12:33 +0100,
Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> I think you are.  So browsers just downmix 5.1 or 7.1 to stereo ? And
> treat any other multichannel files the same ?  And android chrome can
> actually play 5.1 without down mixing ? That's odd because phones are
> not my first choice for playing multichannel  audio. It's a mess all
> right .
> 
> On Friday, 23 October 2015, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
> 
> > Hi Augustime.
> >
> > I used Ambisonics as an example (or a "use case"); all surround
> > formats requires more than 2 channels (appart from UHJ). The
> > problem is that Firefox (and other browsers) don't support more
> > than 2 channels. Sometimes the problem is on the device or the
> > operating system; although Chrome supports more than 2 channels, on
> > the Android OS the number of channels available to Chrome is
> > limited to 2.
> >
> > Worst: most audio API and codecs *assume* that "multichannel" means
> > something like "5.1" or "7.1", and apply default rules. Audio API
> > (and codecs too) should just expose their channels in the order of
> > the audio stream, and not try to decide what is the surround scheme
> > by looking at the number of channels.
> >
> > There's a reason why multichannel audio is so difficult; in order to
> > help programmers, most audio API are making things more confusing...
> >
> > I guess I'm not really answering your question...
> > --
> > Marc
> >
> > On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 21:32:14 +0100
> > Augustine Leudar > wrote:
> >
> > > What about other forms of surround sound that are not ambisonics ?
> > >
> > > On Friday, 23 October 2015, Marc Lavallée  > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The problem is that Mozilla (and maybe others) just need to fix
> > > > (or better document) their version of the Web Audio API. Then
> > > > it'd be possible to decode ambisonic at any order. Chrome does
> > > > a better job, but it's (hopefully) a temporary monopoly, since
> > > > Mozilla is organising the Web Audio Conference.
> > > > --
> > > > Marc
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:37:06 +0100
> > > > Dave Malham 
> > > > >
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I think the problem is the fact that at least one of the
> > > > > decoders needed is proprietary so costs money to include
> > > > > which makes it difficult for free browsers, if not backed by
> > > > > mega corporations. Of course, I could well be wrong (again)
> > > > > but it is a shame when Mozilla loses it's position as the
> > > > > most standard compliant browser, especially when it impacts
> > > > > audio.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 22 October 2015 at 13:44, David Pickett  > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround
> > > > > > recordings using the HTML5  tag is 3.5 years old.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the
> > > > > > PC, so I use Chrome for multi-channel aac files.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have
> > > > > > caught up in the last three years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David


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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5

[Michael Demeyer]

The new Edge browser from Microsoft will play Dolby Digital Plus audio in HTML5 
pages.  It uses the decoder in the Windows OS for decoding.   Details on how to 
are at:


http://blog.dolby.com/2015/05/how-to-deliver-great-sounding-content-with-dolby-audio-windows-10-and-microsoft-edge/


Michael Demeyer

Senior Director

Dolby Labs
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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[Marc Lavallée]

The problem is that Mozilla (and maybe others) just need to fix (or
better document) their version of the Web Audio API. Then it'd be
possible to decode ambisonic at any order. Chrome does a better job,
but it's (hopefully) a temporary monopoly, since Mozilla is organising
the Web Audio Conference.
--
Marc

On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:37:06 +0100
Dave Malham  wrote:

> I think the problem is the fact that at least one of the decoders
> needed is proprietary so costs money to include which makes it
> difficult for free browsers, if not backed by mega corporations. Of
> course, I could well be wrong (again) but it is a shame when Mozilla
> loses it's position as the most standard compliant browser,
> especially when it impacts audio.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> On 22 October 2015 at 13:44, David Pickett  wrote:
> 
> > Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround recordings
> > using the HTML5  tag is 3.5 years old.
> >
> > http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265
> >
> > I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the PC, so I
> > use Chrome for multi-channel aac files.
> >
> > http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml
> >
> > But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have caught
> > up in the last three years.
> >
> > Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files?
> >
> > David
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[Augustine Leudar]

What about other forms of surround sound that are not ambisonics ?

On Friday, 23 October 2015, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> The problem is that Mozilla (and maybe others) just need to fix (or
> better document) their version of the Web Audio API. Then it'd be
> possible to decode ambisonic at any order. Chrome does a better job,
> but it's (hopefully) a temporary monopoly, since Mozilla is organising
> the Web Audio Conference.
> --
> Marc
>
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:37:06 +0100
> Dave Malham > wrote:
>
> > I think the problem is the fact that at least one of the decoders
> > needed is proprietary so costs money to include which makes it
> > difficult for free browsers, if not backed by mega corporations. Of
> > course, I could well be wrong (again) but it is a shame when Mozilla
> > loses it's position as the most standard compliant browser,
> > especially when it impacts audio.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 22 October 2015 at 13:44, David Pickett  > wrote:
> >
> > > Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround recordings
> > > using the HTML5  tag is 3.5 years old.
> > >
> > > http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265
> > >
> > > I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the PC, so I
> > > use Chrome for multi-channel aac files.
> > >
> > > http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml
> > >
> > > But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have caught
> > > up in the last three years.
> > >
> > > Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files?
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu 
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5

[Dave Malham]

Although this is good news for those in Windoze land, the trouble is that
what is really needed is a solution which runs transparently across all
platforms and at no cost to the end user.

Dave

On 23 October 2015 at 17:18, Michael Demeyer  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> The new Edge browser from Microsoft will play Dolby Digital Plus audio in
> HTML5 pages.  It uses the decoder in the Windows OS for decoding.   Details
> on how to are at:
>
>
>
> http://blog.dolby.com/2015/05/how-to-deliver-great-sounding-content-with-dolby-audio-windows-10-and-microsoft-edge/
>
>
> Michael Demeyer
>
> Senior Director
>
> Dolby Labs
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>



-- 

As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[Augustine Leudar]

I think you are.  So browsers just downmix 5.1 or 7.1 to stereo ? And treat
any other multichannel files the same ?  And android chrome can actually
play 5.1 without down mixing ? That's odd because phones are not my first
choice for playing multichannel  audio. It's a mess all right .

On Friday, 23 October 2015, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> Hi Augustime.
>
> I used Ambisonics as an example (or a "use case"); all surround formats
> requires more than 2 channels (appart from UHJ). The problem is that
> Firefox (and other browsers) don't support more than 2 channels.
> Sometimes the problem is on the device or the operating system;
> although Chrome supports more than 2 channels, on the Android OS the
> number of channels available to Chrome is limited to 2.
>
> Worst: most audio API and codecs *assume* that "multichannel" means
> something like "5.1" or "7.1", and apply default rules. Audio API (and
> codecs too) should just expose their channels in the order of the
> audio stream, and not try to decide what is the surround scheme by
> looking at the number of channels.
>
> There's a reason why multichannel audio is so difficult; in order to
> help programmers, most audio API are making things more confusing...
>
> I guess I'm not really answering your question...
> --
> Marc
>
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 21:32:14 +0100
> Augustine Leudar > wrote:
>
> > What about other forms of surround sound that are not ambisonics ?
> >
> > On Friday, 23 October 2015, Marc Lavallée  > wrote:
> >
> > > The problem is that Mozilla (and maybe others) just need to fix (or
> > > better document) their version of the Web Audio API. Then it'd be
> > > possible to decode ambisonic at any order. Chrome does a better job,
> > > but it's (hopefully) a temporary monopoly, since Mozilla is
> > > organising the Web Audio Conference.
> > > --
> > > Marc
> > >
> > > On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:37:06 +0100
> > > Dave Malham  >
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think the problem is the fact that at least one of the decoders
> > > > needed is proprietary so costs money to include which makes it
> > > > difficult for free browsers, if not backed by mega corporations.
> > > > Of course, I could well be wrong (again) but it is a shame when
> > > > Mozilla loses it's position as the most standard compliant
> > > > browser, especially when it impacts audio.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 22 October 2015 at 13:44, David Pickett  
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround recordings
> > > > > using the HTML5  tag is 3.5 years old.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265
> > > > >
> > > > > I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the PC,
> > > > > so I use Chrome for multi-channel aac files.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml
> > > > >
> > > > > But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have
> > > > > caught up in the last three years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files?
> > > > >
> > > > > David
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu  
> > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so
> > > > > on.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu  
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[Dave Malham]

I think the problem is the fact that at least one of the decoders needed is
proprietary so costs money to include which makes it difficult for free
browsers, if not backed by mega corporations. Of course, I could well be
wrong (again) but it is a shame when Mozilla loses it's position as the
most standard compliant browser, especially when it impacts audio.

Dave


On 22 October 2015 at 13:44, David Pickett  wrote:

> Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround recordings using the
> HTML5  tag is 3.5 years old.
>
> http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265
>
> I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the PC, so I use
> Chrome for multi-channel aac files.
>
> http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml
>
> But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have caught up in
> the last three years.
>
> Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files?
>
> David
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 

As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[umashankar manthravadi]

I am able to use Microsoft edge with ambisonics.xyz

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: David Pickett
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 6:15 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.


Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround recordings 
using the HTML5  tag is 3.5 years old.

http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265

I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the PC, so I 
use Chrome for multi-channel aac files.

http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml

But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have caught 
up in the last three years.

Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files?

David

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[Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.

[David Pickett]

Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround recordings 
using the HTML5  tag is 3.5 years old.


http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265

I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the PC, so I 
use Chrome for multi-channel aac files.


http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml

But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have caught 
up in the last three years.


Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files?

David

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