Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Augustine Leudar]

I ended up getting a motu 24ao

http://www.motu.com/products/avb/24ai-24ao/video.html

thats 24 outs with a maximum of 48 if I connect my ADAT units. The food
thing is they are expandable with their new AVB ethernet connection which I
believe can give you up to 256 outs. A steal at £750 ..

On 1 May 2014 at 10:09, Emanuele  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have the M-audio Profire Lightbridge for years now and I am quite happy.
> Please keep in mind that is not USB, but Firewire 400 instead. Also is
> about to become obsolete as they stopped development for that unfortunately.
> The new OSX won't have drivers for that and I'm pretty sure Win as well.
>
> Shame.
>
> Ema
>
> On 01/05/2014 08:49, Alessandro Fogar wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I searched a lot and the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge is not too bad !
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> AF
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-23 10:49 GMT+01:00 Alessandro Fogar :
>>
>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> can you please suggest me an inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
>>> (8ch)
>>> to use in an installation ?
>>>
>>> If possible with drivers for Linux, Win, Mac.
>>>
>>> Many thanks in advance
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alessandro Fogar
>>>
>>> http://www.fogar.it
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
>



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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Emanuele]

Hi,

I have the M-audio Profire Lightbridge for years now and I am quite happy.
Please keep in mind that is not USB, but Firewire 400 instead. Also is 
about to become obsolete as they stopped development for that unfortunately.

The new OSX won't have drivers for that and I'm pretty sure Win as well.

Shame.

Ema

On 01/05/2014 08:49, Alessandro Fogar wrote:

Hi,

I searched a lot and the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge is not too bad !

All the best

AF


2014-03-23 10:49 GMT+01:00 Alessandro Fogar sfo...@gmail.com:


Hi all,

can you please suggest me an inexpensive USB multichannel sound card (8ch)
to use in an installation ?

If possible with drivers for Linux, Win, Mac.

Many thanks in advance

Best

--
Alessandro Fogar

http://www.fogar.it






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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Maybe you could team up with this guy?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/252769-my-dsp-dac-build-5.html
He has already made a layout for the DAC that migh be of use...

-Bosse

-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Malham
Sent: den 16 april 2014 18:18
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

For low cost multi-channel players with decoding and eq, it might be worth 
investigating the ADAU1702 which is a complete single-chip audio system with a 
28-/56-bit audio DSP, ADCs, DACs, and microcontroller-like control interfaces. 
It has 4 channel DAC's and 2 channel ADC's built in - plus you can  interface 
others. About 8 dollars in one offs. Alternatively, as I have mentioned before, 
the ADAU1966 16 channel very high quality DAC coupled with a Beagle Bone  (or 
Board) would not be tooo expensive. I actually have the bits to try it out but 
I'm too busy practising being retired ( and collecting Wharfedale Diamond V's) 
:-)

Dave


On 16 April 2014 11:31, Bo-Erik Sandholm bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.comwrote:


  I have surfed around and pondered on how to create a low cost DIY 
 multichannel sound outputs...

 Ethernet to MADI ?? can it be done ?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MADI
 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.sursound/3076
 http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35486.120

 OR use protocol for audio over Ethernet?
 http://www.supermac-hypermac.com/
 Royalty-free implementations available as Xilinx FPGA cores

 DIY MADI to ADAT
 http://madi.webklik.nl/page/madi
 http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35486.600


 Use to  this to interface directly to Ethernet or a RPi or maybe USB?
 http://www.xmos.com/en/startkit#D1WEaWZP


 10/100 MII Ethernet MAC for XMOS microcontrollers 
 http://xcore.github.com/sc_ethernet/index.html
 https://github.com/xcore/sc_ethernet

 Modules to receive and transmit ADAT streams 
 http://github.xcore.com/sc_adat/ https://github.com/xcore/sc_adat


 http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=aa2ced904ae4
 77361c0eabd3c51c1908topic=96073.20
 http://opencores.com/project,adat_optical_feed_forward_receiver
 Or

 http://voxcaliber.com/is-dante-the-future-no-64-channel-digital-audio-
 over-ethernet-is-already-here/



 8 channel DAC - use 2 or 3 chips - around 100db S/N 
 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8768.pd
 f http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8768/
 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/misc/en/WAN0149.pdf
 Layout
 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/misc/en/WAN0129.pdf
 Stereo DAC better data
 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8740.pd
 f


 http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4397_F1.pdf

 USB to I2S + DAC stereo 97$
 http://www.silabs.com/products/interface/Pages/CP2114-WM8523EK.aspx

 Interesting DIY DAC
 http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC_final/DacFinal.html
 http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4398.html  8 channels 117 db s/n

 Just a few places where it might be possible to find entry point if 
 not everything is to be created out of nowhere.

 Bo-Erik Sandholm
 Stockholm
 --

 http://www.xmos.com/en/startkit#D1WEaWZP


 http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=aa2ced904ae4
 77361c0eabd3c51c1908topic=96073.20



 -Original Message-
 From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of 
 Sampo Syreeni
 Sent: den 14 april 2014 22:21
 To: Surround Sound discussion group
 Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

 On 2014-04-13, Ross Bencina wrote:

  I am ignorant of the economics, but perhaps it is worth considering 
  an FPGA-based implementation:
 
  An FPGA-based Re-configurable 24-bit 96kHz Sigma-Delta Audio DAC
  Ray C.C. Cheung et al.

 Worth a look because I'm not *too* well educated about the economics 
 either, but my hunch is, that'd prove costly overkill. 1-4 channel 
 high quality converters are already available as bulk product, at very 
 low cost (to the tune of well under a buck per channel). What you 
 really need after that is just the interface and synch circuitry, and 
 whatever you need on the analog side for its interfaces, noise-free 
 reference voltages, stable, low-jitter clocking and whatnot. Something 
 like that doesn't take high end components like tightly integrated 
 FPGA's and their support circuitry, but at most tightly integrated 
 opamps, fuze programmable PAL/GAL/CPLD, and the ilk.

 Of course the rationale is much the same as with FPGA's -- the chip 
 types I mentioned are basically just the smaller brothers of FPGA 
 after all -- but the price point is much, *much* lower, in concordance 
 with the lesser amount of stuff you have to implement yourself once 
 the basic, hardest D/A stuff and even most of the interface logic was 
 already bought in bulk, and since in this sort of an application, you 
 really don't require

Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 I have surfed around and pondered on how to create a low cost DIY multichannel 
sound outputs...

Ethernet to MADI ?? can it be done ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MADI
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.sursound/3076
http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35486.120

OR use protocol for audio over Ethernet?
http://www.supermac-hypermac.com/
Royalty-free implementations available as Xilinx FPGA cores

DIY MADI to ADAT
http://madi.webklik.nl/page/madi
http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35486.600


Use to  this to interface directly to Ethernet or a RPi or maybe USB?
http://www.xmos.com/en/startkit#D1WEaWZP


10/100 MII Ethernet MAC for XMOS microcontrollers
http://xcore.github.com/sc_ethernet/index.html
https://github.com/xcore/sc_ethernet

Modules to receive and transmit ADAT streams
http://github.xcore.com/sc_adat/
https://github.com/xcore/sc_adat

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=aa2ced904ae477361c0eabd3c51c1908topic=96073.20
http://opencores.com/project,adat_optical_feed_forward_receiver   
Or 
http://voxcaliber.com/is-dante-the-future-no-64-channel-digital-audio-over-ethernet-is-already-here/



8 channel DAC - use 2 or 3 chips - around 100db S/N
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8768.pdf 
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8768/
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/misc/en/WAN0149.pdf
Layout
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/misc/en/WAN0129.pdf
Stereo DAC better data
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8740.pdf


http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4397_F1.pdf

USB to I2S + DAC stereo 97$
http://www.silabs.com/products/interface/Pages/CP2114-WM8523EK.aspx

Interesting DIY DAC
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC_final/DacFinal.html
http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4398.html  8 channels 117 db s/n

Just a few places where it might be possible to find entry point if not 
everything is to be created out of nowhere.

Bo-Erik Sandholm
Stockholm
--

http://www.xmos.com/en/startkit#D1WEaWZP

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=aa2ced904ae477361c0eabd3c51c1908topic=96073.20



-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Sampo Syreeni
Sent: den 14 april 2014 22:21
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

On 2014-04-13, Ross Bencina wrote:

 I am ignorant of the economics, but perhaps it is worth considering an 
 FPGA-based implementation:

 An FPGA-based Re-configurable 24-bit 96kHz Sigma-Delta Audio DAC
 Ray C.C. Cheung et al.

Worth a look because I'm not *too* well educated about the economics either, 
but my hunch is, that'd prove costly overkill. 1-4 channel high quality 
converters are already available as bulk product, at very low cost (to the tune 
of well under a buck per channel). What you really need after that is just the 
interface and synch circuitry, and whatever you need on the analog side for its 
interfaces, noise-free reference voltages, stable, low-jitter clocking and 
whatnot. Something like that doesn't take high end components like tightly 
integrated FPGA's and their support circuitry, but at most tightly integrated 
opamps, fuze programmable PAL/GAL/CPLD, and the ilk.

Of course the rationale is much the same as with FPGA's -- the chip types I 
mentioned are basically just the smaller brothers of FPGA after all -- but the 
price point is much, *much* lower, in concordance with the lesser amount of 
stuff you have to implement yourself once the basic, hardest D/A stuff and even 
most of the interface logic was already bought in bulk, and since in this sort 
of an application, you really don't require reprogrammability (which takes at 
least an order of magnitude away from the cost).

Now, this is obviously just another one of my wild ideas. It's highly unlikely 
I would be in the position to try it out, at least any time soon. There's still 
a rather hefty base investment when you do something like this. But sorta, 
kinda, I believe the basic economics ought to pan out; I don't think even 
ridiculous channel counts are mainly hard today because of the cost of 
production, but because of the low demand and the amortization problems it 
causes. If so, something like this would be one helluva match with circuit 
design class projects, Kickstarter-like nerdy crowdfunding, or the kind of 
hobbyist/researcher ecosystem we have even on this list.
--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
___
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound

Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Dave Malham]

For low cost multi-channel players with decoding and eq, it might be worth
investigating the ADAU1702 which is a complete single-chip audio system
with a 28-/56-bit audio DSP, ADCs, DACs, and microcontroller-like control
interfaces. It has 4 channel DAC's and 2 channel ADC's built in - plus you
can  interface others. About 8 dollars in one offs. Alternatively, as I
have mentioned before, the ADAU1966 16 channel very high quality DAC
coupled with a Beagle Bone  (or Board) would not be tooo expensive. I
actually have the bits to try it out but I'm too busy practising being
retired ( and collecting Wharfedale Diamond V's) :-)

Dave


On 16 April 2014 11:31, Bo-Erik Sandholm bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.comwrote:


  I have surfed around and pondered on how to create a low cost DIY
 multichannel sound outputs...

 Ethernet to MADI ?? can it be done ?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MADI
 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.sursound/3076
 http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35486.120

 OR use protocol for audio over Ethernet?
 http://www.supermac-hypermac.com/
 Royalty-free implementations available as Xilinx FPGA cores

 DIY MADI to ADAT
 http://madi.webklik.nl/page/madi
 http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35486.600


 Use to  this to interface directly to Ethernet or a RPi or maybe USB?
 http://www.xmos.com/en/startkit#D1WEaWZP


 10/100 MII Ethernet MAC for XMOS microcontrollers
 http://xcore.github.com/sc_ethernet/index.html
 https://github.com/xcore/sc_ethernet

 Modules to receive and transmit ADAT streams
 http://github.xcore.com/sc_adat/
 https://github.com/xcore/sc_adat


 http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=aa2ced904ae477361c0eabd3c51c1908topic=96073.20
 http://opencores.com/project,adat_optical_feed_forward_receiver
 Or

 http://voxcaliber.com/is-dante-the-future-no-64-channel-digital-audio-over-ethernet-is-already-here/



 8 channel DAC - use 2 or 3 chips - around 100db S/N
 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8768.pdf
 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8768/
 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/misc/en/WAN0149.pdf
 Layout
 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/misc/en/WAN0129.pdf
 Stereo DAC better data
 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8740.pdf


 http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4397_F1.pdf

 USB to I2S + DAC stereo 97$
 http://www.silabs.com/products/interface/Pages/CP2114-WM8523EK.aspx

 Interesting DIY DAC
 http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC_final/DacFinal.html
 http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4398.html  8 channels 117 db s/n

 Just a few places where it might be possible to find entry point if not
 everything is to be created out of nowhere.

 Bo-Erik Sandholm
 Stockholm
 --

 http://www.xmos.com/en/startkit#D1WEaWZP


 http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=aa2ced904ae477361c0eabd3c51c1908topic=96073.20



 -Original Message-
 From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Sampo
 Syreeni
 Sent: den 14 april 2014 22:21
 To: Surround Sound discussion group
 Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

 On 2014-04-13, Ross Bencina wrote:

  I am ignorant of the economics, but perhaps it is worth considering an
  FPGA-based implementation:
 
  An FPGA-based Re-configurable 24-bit 96kHz Sigma-Delta Audio DAC
  Ray C.C. Cheung et al.

 Worth a look because I'm not *too* well educated about the economics
 either, but my hunch is, that'd prove costly overkill. 1-4 channel high
 quality converters are already available as bulk product, at very low cost
 (to the tune of well under a buck per channel). What you really need after
 that is just the interface and synch circuitry, and whatever you need on
 the analog side for its interfaces, noise-free reference voltages, stable,
 low-jitter clocking and whatnot. Something like that doesn't take high end
 components like tightly integrated FPGA's and their support circuitry, but
 at most tightly integrated opamps, fuze programmable PAL/GAL/CPLD, and the
 ilk.

 Of course the rationale is much the same as with FPGA's -- the chip types
 I mentioned are basically just the smaller brothers of FPGA after all --
 but the price point is much, *much* lower, in concordance with the lesser
 amount of stuff you have to implement yourself once the basic, hardest D/A
 stuff and even most of the interface logic was already bought in bulk, and
 since in this sort of an application, you really don't require
 reprogrammability (which takes at least an order of magnitude away from the
 cost).

 Now, this is obviously just another one of my wild ideas. It's highly
 unlikely I would be in the position to try it out, at least any time soon.
 There's still a rather hefty base investment when you do something like
 this. But sorta, kinda, I believe the basic economics ought to pan out; I
 don't think even ridiculous channel counts are mainly hard today because of
 the cost

Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Ross Bencina]

On 15/04/2014 6:21 AM, Sampo Syreeni wrote:

Worth a look because I'm not *too* well educated about the economics
either, but my hunch is, that'd prove costly overkill. 1-4 channel high
quality converters are already available as bulk product, at very low
cost (to the tune of well under a buck per channel). What you really
need after that is just the interface and synch circuitry, and whatever
you need on the analog side for its interfaces, noise-free reference
voltages, stable, low-jitter clocking and whatnot. Something like that
doesn't take high end components like tightly integrated FPGA's and
their support circuitry, but at most tightly integrated opamps, fuze
programmable PAL/GAL/CPLD, and the ilk.



How are you proposing to handle the digital side? USB3 - USB3 class 
audio protocol stack - multiple SPI channels


Ross.

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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Augustine Leudar]

Sure  - its a great idea to make your own I agree. I simply dont have time
at the moment as I am busy with other projects - but I would certainly
invest in a system made by someone here if its timing was solid. For me at
the moment the cheapest way of doing 32 channels or more is with RME
Raydats daisy chained (for more than 32 channels) with Behringer ADAT
converters (about euro 150 each). Then Motu do a 24 output soundcard that
can be daisychained - Ive seen them on sale for £150 on gumtree - they also
have rock solid timing and nice Dacs. If you or anyone else has builds
something let me know - Id be very interested !


On 12 April 2014 23:02, Sampo Syreeni de...@iki.fi wrote:

 On 2014-04-12, Augustine Leudar wrote:

  the use I have in mind is not really anything to do with ambisonics -
 rather I just want a reasonbly good quality 8 channel soundcard to run an
 eight channel sound installation on .


 Yeah, but still, even if not every sound encoding system requires perfect
 coherence between channels, at least ambisonic does. Once you have full
 synchronization between channels, it doesn't hurt except in the cost it
 adds, when you do things like 5.1 where the channels do not need to be
 quite so well registered with each other. But it then it certainly helps if
 you need to do work which requires coherence, like ambisonic, WFS,
 beamforming, direction finding and the rest of the basically
 interferometric lot.

 So what I was thinking about was, how low could you really go in cost if
 you wanted to to optimize like that. Keeping to a fully coherent A/D/A
 architecture, and then scale to the maximum number of channels without e.g.
 needing an external power source. Based on what I know of the current
 circuit economy and the common use cases, you could go pretty far. Quite
 certainly something like third order==sixteen channels wouldn't be out of
 reach, an using standard, proven chips I find it rather difficult to
 believe the eventual value of the converter should have to exceed something
 like 100€.  It'd take some doing, yeah, good enough, synchronizable quad
 converter chips do exist, with built-in USB and/or Ethernet capability. Not
 to mention that a Raspberry Pi already costs just low tens of euros, and
 the economy of even ASICs nowadays.

 What I mean is, while there's nothing out there in the cost bracket you
 and everybody else on this list wants, I really see no reason why there
 couldn't be. To me it seems like a problem with consumer demand: your
 typical home theatre enthusiast couldn't possibly afford all of the
 speakers, amplifiers and or listening rooms even sixteen channels worth of
 conversion capability requires, so they don't want these kinds of
 multichannel converters. Hence, such converters aren't made in bulk at all.
 But the production cost of making something like that even starting from
 zero really shouldn't be much above that of an USB, stereo converter
 package which we do have and which cost next to nothing.

 Thus, why *not* make one of our own? It's not rocket surgery after all.
 Not today. And there are even a few academics on-list with ties to
 electrical engineering departments, so that the design cost of a converter
 package suitable for audio research work might be almost negligible, too.
 Thrown into the free and open domain, a well-thought out package like that
 could easily become a landmark piece in open hardware, it'd make all of our
 lives much easier and less costly in the still-experimental high
 multichannel space, and you might even be able to get a couple of
 PhD's/EE's out of it and/or its applications. Spin out a couple of startups
 in a startup-poor economy, and what not. What's not to like there? ;)

 --
 Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
 +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
 ___
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 Sursound@music.vt.edu
 https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound




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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2014-04-13, Ross Bencina wrote:

I am ignorant of the economics, but perhaps it is worth considering an 
FPGA-based implementation:


An FPGA-based Re-configurable 24-bit 96kHz Sigma-Delta Audio DAC
Ray C.C. Cheung et al.


Worth a look because I'm not *too* well educated about the economics 
either, but my hunch is, that'd prove costly overkill. 1-4 channel high 
quality converters are already available as bulk product, at very low 
cost (to the tune of well under a buck per channel). What you really 
need after that is just the interface and synch circuitry, and whatever 
you need on the analog side for its interfaces, noise-free reference 
voltages, stable, low-jitter clocking and whatnot. Something like that 
doesn't take high end components like tightly integrated FPGA's and 
their support circuitry, but at most tightly integrated opamps, fuze 
programmable PAL/GAL/CPLD, and the ilk.


Of course the rationale is much the same as with FPGA's -- the chip 
types I mentioned are basically just the smaller brothers of FPGA after 
all -- but the price point is much, *much* lower, in concordance with 
the lesser amount of stuff you have to implement yourself once the 
basic, hardest D/A stuff and even most of the interface logic was 
already bought in bulk, and since in this sort of an application, you 
really don't require reprogrammability (which takes at least an order of 
magnitude away from the cost).


Now, this is obviously just another one of my wild ideas. It's highly 
unlikely I would be in the position to try it out, at least any time 
soon. There's still a rather hefty base investment when you do something 
like this. But sorta, kinda, I believe the basic economics ought to pan 
out; I don't think even ridiculous channel counts are mainly hard today 
because of the cost of production, but because of the low demand and the 
amortization problems it causes. If so, something like this would be one 
helluva match with circuit design class projects, Kickstarter-like nerdy 
crowdfunding, or the kind of hobbyist/researcher ecosystem we have even 
on this list.

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
___
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2014-04-12, Augustine Leudar wrote:

the use I have in mind is not really anything to do with ambisonics - 
rather I just want a reasonbly good quality 8 channel soundcard to run 
an eight channel sound installation on .


Yeah, but still, even if not every sound encoding system requires 
perfect coherence between channels, at least ambisonic does. Once you 
have full synchronization between channels, it doesn't hurt except in 
the cost it adds, when you do things like 5.1 where the channels do not 
need to be quite so well registered with each other. But it then it 
certainly helps if you need to do work which requires coherence, like 
ambisonic, WFS, beamforming, direction finding and the rest of the 
basically interferometric lot.


So what I was thinking about was, how low could you really go in cost if 
you wanted to to optimize like that. Keeping to a fully coherent A/D/A 
architecture, and then scale to the maximum number of channels without 
e.g. needing an external power source. Based on what I know of the 
current circuit economy and the common use cases, you could go pretty 
far. Quite certainly something like third order==sixteen channels 
wouldn't be out of reach, an using standard, proven chips I find it 
rather difficult to believe the eventual value of the converter should 
have to exceed something like 100€.  It'd take some doing, yeah, good 
enough, synchronizable quad converter chips do exist, with built-in USB 
and/or Ethernet capability. Not to mention that a Raspberry Pi already 
costs just low tens of euros, and the economy of even ASICs nowadays.


What I mean is, while there's nothing out there in the cost bracket you 
and everybody else on this list wants, I really see no reason why there 
couldn't be. To me it seems like a problem with consumer demand: 
your typical home theatre enthusiast couldn't possibly afford all of the 
speakers, amplifiers and or listening rooms even sixteen channels worth 
of conversion capability requires, so they don't want these kinds of 
multichannel converters. Hence, such converters aren't made in bulk at 
all. But the production cost of making something like that even 
starting from zero really shouldn't be much above that of an USB, stereo 
converter package which we do have and which cost next to nothing.


Thus, why *not* make one of our own? It's not rocket surgery after all. 
Not today. And there are even a few academics on-list with ties to 
electrical engineering departments, so that the design cost of a 
converter package suitable for audio research work might be almost 
negligible, too. Thrown into the free and open domain, a well-thought 
out package like that could easily become a landmark piece in open 
hardware, it'd make all of our lives much easier and less costly in the 
still-experimental high multichannel space, and you might even be able 
to get a couple of PhD's/EE's out of it and/or its applications. Spin 
out a couple of startups in a startup-poor economy, and what not. What's 
not to like there? ;)

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Ross Bencina]

Hi Sampo,

On 13/04/2014 8:02 AM, Sampo Syreeni wrote:

Thus, why *not* make one of our own? It's not rocket surgery after all.
Not today. And there are even a few academics on-list with ties to
electrical engineering departments, so that the design cost of a
converter package suitable for audio research work might be almost
negligible, too. Thrown into the free and open domain, a well-thought
out package like that could easily become a landmark piece in open
hardware, it'd make all of our lives much easier and less costly in the
still-experimental high multichannel space, and you might even be able
to get a couple of PhD's/EE's out of it and/or its applications. Spin
out a couple of startups in a startup-poor economy, and what not. What's
not to like there? ;)


I am ignorant of the economics, but perhaps it is worth considering an 
FPGA-based implementation:


An FPGA-based Re-configurable 24-bit 96kHz Sigma-Delta Audio DAC
Ray C.C. Cheung et al.

http://www.ee.usyd.edu.au/people/philip.leong/UserFiles/File/papers/dac_fpt03.pdf

In theory the USB transceiver and the DAC(s) could all be baked onto a 
single FPGA.


Ross.
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Do we remember this?
http://alsa.opensrc.org/TwoCardsAsOne
http://quicktoots.linux-audio.com/toots/el-cheapo/  HW modification , sharing 
one x-tal

Either just add 2 or 3 PCI or PCI-E soundcards to an old PC.

OR  building a low cost pc with 16 ( or 24 ) channels of sound outputs for 
around 150 Euro?
Mother board have possibility to expand to 3 pci-e soundcards.
Can be built as a minitower - 
I belive the CPU power is good enough for decoding - do I need more than 2 GB 
Memory for building this as a first degree decoder?

http://www.asus.com/se/Motherboards/AM1MA/ 3 PCI-E   299 SEK 
http://wimages.vr-zone.net/2014/03/am1.jpg  AMD  e2-3850 350 SEK
Memory DDR3 2 GB ?  
   300 SEK
Disc or USB boot - Power and Box  - recycling

http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6052508040.html 2 PCIE soundcards  31 USD / 
cards == 420 SEK
2) Based on VIA VT1723 Envy24DT multi-channel audio controller, Sampling rate 
up to 24 bits and 48KHz for both playing back and recording - 8 channels


Would the CPU power and memory 2GB be enough for 

A6-5350 A4-5150 E2-3850 E1-2650 
Cores / Threads 4 / 4   4 / 4   4 / 4   2 / 2   
CPU Frequency   205016001300145020001400
GPU HD 8400 HD 8400 HD 8280 HD 8240 
GPU SPs 128 128 128 128 
GPU Frequency   600 600 450 400 
L2 Cache2MB 2MB 2MB 1MB 
TDP 25 W25 W25 W25 W
PlatformAM1 AM1 AM1 AM1



-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Marc Lavallée
Sent: den 6 april 2014 15:37
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

Sun, 6 Apr 2014 06:23:37 +0100,
Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote :

 Lets not worry too much about silicon - it's ridiculously cheap these 
 days, so long as you are not going for the top end. If we are to use 
 cheap, ready built, USB units and not our own purpose built kit (and 
 that's not unthinkable, this is the age of the maker, right?) I think 
 it all hinges on two things, synchronisation and bit rate. For 24 bits 
 and 48 Khz, which is, I guess, about the lowest we'd all be happy 
 with, that's 1152 kilobits per second, which means for USB 2, a 
 practical limit of 8/10 channels per plug, all things being equal.
 This is why there are 7.1 units out there. 

Hi Dave.

The previously mentioned cheap USB sound modules are limited to 16 bits and 
48Khz. When resampling 24bit sources with dithering, 16 bits is enough for 
domestic use. At 48Khz, that's 768Kbps per channel, and at 44.1Khz that's 
705.6Kbs. So the required USB bus speed for 8 channels is 6144Kbps or 5645Kbps 
(maybe more with some protocol overhead).

These modules work with USB 1.1, not USB 2. The USB 1.1 standard have two 
speeds: low at 1.5Mbps, and full at 12Mbps. So, theoretically, a single USB 1.1 
bus at full-speed can handle two 7.1 sound modules at 16bit/44.1Khz. I don't 
know how a USB 2 hub deal with several USB 1.1 devices.

I yet have to test two modules with a RPI.
--
Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Marc Lavallée]

Bo-Erik, I had this project for years!
I got a classic motherboard from Intel, with 4 PCI slots.
I hope to get 32 channels.

--
Marc

Mon, 7 Apr 2014 07:38:20 +,
Bo-Erik Sandholm bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.com wrote :

 Do we remember this?
 http://alsa.opensrc.org/TwoCardsAsOne
 http://quicktoots.linux-audio.com/toots/el-cheapo/  HW modification ,
 sharing one x-tal
 
 Either just add 2 or 3 PCI or PCI-E soundcards to an old PC.
 
 OR  building a low cost pc with 16 ( or 24 ) channels of sound
 outputs for around 150 Euro? Mother board have possibility to expand
 to 3 pci-e soundcards. Can be built as a minitower - 
 I belive the CPU power is good enough for decoding - do I need more
 than 2 GB Memory for building this as a first degree decoder?
 
 http://www.asus.com/se/Motherboards/AM1MA/ 3 PCI-E   299 SEK 
 http://wimages.vr-zone.net/2014/03/am1.jpg  AMD  e2-3850 350 SEK
 Memory DDR3 2
 GB ?
 300 SEK Disc or USB boot - Power and Box  - recycling
 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6052508040.html 2 PCIE soundcards
 31 USD / cards == 420 SEK 2) Based on VIA VT1723 Envy24DT
 multi-channel audio controller, Sampling rate up to 24 bits and 48KHz
 for both playing back and recording - 8 channels
 
 
 Would the CPU power and memory 2GB be enough for 
 
   A6-5350 A4-5150 E2-3850
 E1-2650 Cores / Threads   4 / 4   4 /
 4 4 / 4   2 / 2 CPU Frequency
 2050  16001300145020001400
 GPU   HD 8400 HD 8400 HD 8280 HD
 8240 GPU SPs  128 128
 128   128 GPU Frequency   600
 600   450 400 L2 Cache
 2MB   2MB 2MB 1MB
 TDP   25 W25 W25
 W 25 W Platform   AM1
 AM1   AM1 AM1
 
 
   
 -Original Message-
 From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
 Marc Lavallée Sent: den 6 april 2014 15:37
 To: sursound@music.vt.edu
 Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
 
 Sun, 6 Apr 2014 06:23:37 +0100,
 Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote :
 
  Lets not worry too much about silicon - it's ridiculously cheap
  these days, so long as you are not going for the top end. If we are
  to use cheap, ready built, USB units and not our own purpose built
  kit (and that's not unthinkable, this is the age of the maker,
  right?) I think it all hinges on two things, synchronisation and
  bit rate. For 24 bits and 48 Khz, which is, I guess, about the
  lowest we'd all be happy with, that's 1152 kilobits per second,
  which means for USB 2, a practical limit of 8/10 channels per plug,
  all things being equal. This is why there are 7.1 units out there. 
 
 Hi Dave.
 
 The previously mentioned cheap USB sound modules are limited to 16
 bits and 48Khz. When resampling 24bit sources with dithering, 16 bits
 is enough for domestic use. At 48Khz, that's 768Kbps per channel, and
 at 44.1Khz that's 705.6Kbs. So the required USB bus speed for 8
 channels is 6144Kbps or 5645Kbps (maybe more with some protocol
 overhead).
 
 These modules work with USB 1.1, not USB 2. The USB 1.1 standard have
 two speeds: low at 1.5Mbps, and full at 12Mbps. So, theoretically, a
 single USB 1.1 bus at full-speed can handle two 7.1 sound modules at
 16bit/44.1Khz. I don't know how a USB 2 hub deal with several USB 1.1
 devices.
 
 I yet have to test two modules with a RPI.
 --
 Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Marc Lavallée]

Sun, 6 Apr 2014 06:23:37 +0100,
Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote :

 Lets not worry too much about silicon - it's ridiculously cheap these
 days, so long as you are not going for the top end. If we are to use
 cheap, ready built, USB units and not our own purpose built kit (and
 that's not unthinkable, this is the age of the maker, right?) I think
 it all hinges on two things, synchronisation and bit rate. For 24
 bits and 48 Khz, which is, I guess, about the lowest we'd all be
 happy with, that's 1152 kilobits per second, which means for USB 2, a
 practical limit of 8/10 channels per plug, all things being equal.
 This is why there are 7.1 units out there. 

Hi Dave.

The previously mentioned cheap USB sound modules are limited to 16 bits
and 48Khz. When resampling 24bit sources with dithering, 16 bits is
enough for domestic use. At 48Khz, that's 768Kbps per channel, and at
44.1Khz that's 705.6Kbs. So the required USB bus speed for 8 channels is
6144Kbps or 5645Kbps (maybe more with some protocol overhead).

These modules work with USB 1.1, not USB 2. The USB 1.1 standard have
two speeds: low at 1.5Mbps, and full at 12Mbps. So, theoretically, a
single USB 1.1 bus at full-speed can handle two 7.1 sound modules at
16bit/44.1Khz. I don't know how a USB 2 hub deal with several USB 1.1
devices.

I yet have to test two modules with a RPI.
--
Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Augustine Leudar]

Can you do this with any 7.1 usb card ? Wich did you use ?

On 1 April 2014 01:18, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote:

 a...@andynic.eclipse.co.uk a...@andynic.eclipse.co.uk a écrit :
  The Sabrant USB-SND8 is listed on Amazon in the UK for £39.95!
 
  Andy

 On Ebay, the ST-Lab USB SoundBox is about £15, with free shipping.
 I don't know if there's custom fees for electronic goods between the UK
 and Hong-Kong.

 I have a related question for Fons Adriaensen,
 the author of Zita-ajbridge:

 http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/zita-ajbridge-doc/quickguide.html

 I combined two 7.1 USB sound modules with the zita-j2a application, so
 that they appear in jackd as one sound module with 16 output channels.

 Is the resulting 16 channels interface appropriate for Ambisonics
 playback? Is the synchronization precise enough?

 --
 Marc

 7. Re: Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card (Augustine Leudar)
 8. Re: Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card (Bo-Erik Sandholm)
 9. Re: Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card (J?rn
   Nettingsmeier) 10. Re: Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
   (Bo-Erik Sandholm) 11. Re: Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
   (Michael Chapman)
  
   From: Augustine Leudar gustar...@gmail.com
   Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
   Date: 30 March 2014 21:22:26 GMT+1
  
   no uk suppliers on ebay - all from the States. I eventually found
   it on some obscure website - but at 3 times the price as US - still
   cheap though. That  ST-Lab USB Sound Box looks good though.
  
  
   On 30 March 2014 02:25, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote:
  
   Augustine Leudar gustar...@gmail.com a écrit :
   anyone know of a UK/Ireland supplier of the Sabrant USB-SND8 ?
  
   Ebay?
  
 
   From: Bo-Erik Sandholm bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.com
   Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
   Date: 31 March 2014 08:14:53 GMT+1
  
   Don't ignore the Chinese :-)
  
  
 http://www.dx.com/p/usb-2-0-7-1ch-optical-sound-card-audio-adapter-white-orange-172008#.UzkSO4XtX5w
   20 usd inc postage to EU
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-2-0-CH-3D-7-1-Audio-8-Channel-Sound-Card-External-Sound-Pocket-USR71/660029014.html
   25 usd inc Postage to EU
  
   Delivery time is often 3 to 4 weeks to Sweden.
   But note that they are only 16 bit cards.
  
   Best Regards
   Bo-Erik
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
   Augustine Leudar Sent: den 30 mars 2014 22:22
  
   no uk suppliers on ebay - all from the States. I eventually found
   it on some obscure website - but at 3 times the price as US - still
   cheap though. That  ST-Lab USB Sound Box looks good though.
  
  
   On 30 March 2014 02:25, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote:
  
   Augustine Leudar gustar...@gmail.com a écrit :
   anyone know of a UK/Ireland supplier of the Sabrant USB-SND8 ?
  
   Ebay?
  
   Also look for the ST-Lab USB Sound Box; it is similar, if not
   identical.
   --
   Marc
 
 
 
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Marc Lavallée]

Hi Augustine.

I use two identical ST-Lab USB SoundBox modules, but 
it should work with any sound card/module (compatible with ALSA).

Here's a small howto:

The sound chip on my laptop is ALSA device hw:0,
and the 2 USB sound modules are hw:1 and hw:2.
The jackd server is usually started with the hw:0 device.

When started, sound modules can be added with zita-j2a,
to provide extra playback channels.

In a first terminal:
$ zita-j2a -c 8 -d hw:1 -j usb1

In a second terminal:
$ zita-j2a -c 8 -d hw:2 -j usb2

The -j switch is optional, to name the modules.
When using the patcher application, there's 2 extra 
modules with 8 channels, named usb1 and usb2.

The -v optional switch is to show information:
Here's what is says for the first module:

playback :
  nchan  : 8
  fsamp  : 48000
  fsize  : 256
  nfrag  : 2
  format : S16_LE
capture  : not enabled
Starting synchronisation.
   0.837   0.999774
   0.714   0.999559
  -0.157   0.999697

After 15 seconds, the synchronization should be optimal.
But I don't know if it's good enough for Ambisonics playback.
(Fons?)
--
Marc


Sun, 6 Apr 2014 00:41:54 +0100,
Augustine Leudar gustar...@gmail.com wrote:

 Can you do this with any 7.1 usb card ? Wich did you use ?
 
 On 1 April 2014 01:18, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote:
 
  a...@andynic.eclipse.co.uk a...@andynic.eclipse.co.uk a écrit :
   The Sabrant USB-SND8 is listed on Amazon in the UK for £39.95!
  
   Andy
 
  On Ebay, the ST-Lab USB SoundBox is about £15, with free shipping.
  I don't know if there's custom fees for electronic goods between
  the UK and Hong-Kong.
 
  I have a related question for Fons Adriaensen,
  the author of Zita-ajbridge:
 
  http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/zita-ajbridge-doc/quickguide.html
 
  I combined two 7.1 USB sound modules with the zita-j2a application,
  so that they appear in jackd as one sound module with 16 output
  channels.
 
  Is the resulting 16 channels interface appropriate for Ambisonics
  playback? Is the synchronization precise enough?
 
  --
  Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2014-04-06, Augustine Leudar wrote:


Can you do this with any 7.1 usb card ? Wich did you use ?


Well now you opened a can of worms even on my behalf. What really is the 
minimal, asymptotic per-channel cost of well-synchronized multichannel 
audio D/A? Let's say, presuming you can only draw whatever power you can 
from an USB3 port, or a PoE enabled Gigabit Ethernet one? Then 
presupposing at least CD level 98dB (linear unfiltered SPL) S/N for any 
outbound signal is required? How many outbound analog, balanced 
connections could you honestly claim to be able to do, at the standard 
levels? And once you got that, what's the cost-against-number-of-chn 
curve? What's the curve against diminishing voltage, assuming as little 
output current as you can achieve over our outputs in average? How would 
you achieve the optimum scaling using extant mass-produced, mutually 
syncronizable to sampling-time-accurate D/A-chips at your disposal? 
Which were the chips precisely which you would utilize? Are they really 
the cheapest out there even taking into account the external components 
they require in order to function properly, and how/why do they scale 
out/in-parallel?


Seriously, guys, this is like the Grail of low cost ambisonic on the 
hardware side. Right now we can do first order at four hifi outputs, but 
quite likely we can't even do eight for second order. Simply forget 
about third or fourth order using any current standard interconnect, 
either because you can't get the data across, or because nobody likes an 
extraneous transformer for something like this.


So if we do it as compatibly and harmlessly and most efficiently as we 
can, all round, where're connector count, power and datarate curves per 
dollar, here?

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Dave Malham]

Lets not worry too much about silicon - it's ridiculously cheap these days,
so long as you are not going for the top end. If we are to use cheap, ready
built, USB units and not our own purpose built kit (and that's not
unthinkable, this is the age of the maker, right?) I think it all hinges on
two things, synchronisation and bit rate. For 24 bits and 48 Khz, which is,
I guess, about the lowest we'd all be happy with, that's 1152 kilobits per
second, which means for USB 2, a practical limit of 8/10 channels per plug,
all things being equal. This is why there are 7.1 units out there. For USB
3 this goes up by a factor of 20, at least theoretically.  Whether having
more than 1 USB socket on your computer helps is implementation dependent.
Synchronisation is the real killer for cheap units as they frequently don't
have clock input so the the clocks would have to be free running. This
could easily run into 360mS of error (at the typical error  of 0.01% on
xtal clocks) at an hour into a piece. Having some of your speakers
effectively 100 m further away is _not_ good [?] . That's what you could
get, tho' some systems will deal with this by designating one interface as
the master, and sending data via a sample rate converter to the other(s).
This keeps the audio in sync tho' quality might suffer because of the src.
I have to say that my experience of the src in the Mac works really well
and I've run 24 outputs of this Mac with one set of 8 outputs (on an FA101)
going through the internal src without any noticeable problems. (albeit
that was Firewire and not USB).

My own personal feeling is that using a dedicated processor, preferably ARM
based, and the TDI interface, possibly using an RJ45 plug and ethernet
cabling, would be the best approach- on the other hand, we saw a plethora
of cheap multichannel boards talked about a few days ago, why not go for
them?

Dave




On 6 April 2014 03:38, Sampo Syreeni de...@iki.fi wrote:

 On 2014-04-06, Augustine Leudar wrote:

  Can you do this with any 7.1 usb card ? Wich did you use ?


 Well now you opened a can of worms even on my behalf. What really is the
 minimal, asymptotic per-channel cost of well-synchronized multichannel
 audio D/A? Let's say, presuming you can only draw whatever power you can
 from an USB3 port, or a PoE enabled Gigabit Ethernet one? Then presupposing
 at least CD level 98dB (linear unfiltered SPL) S/N for any outbound signal
 is required? How many outbound analog, balanced connections could you
 honestly claim to be able to do, at the standard levels? And once you got
 that, what's the cost-against-number-of-chn curve? What's the curve against
 diminishing voltage, assuming as little output current as you can achieve
 over our outputs in average? How would you achieve the optimum scaling
 using extant mass-produced, mutually syncronizable to
 sampling-time-accurate D/A-chips at your disposal? Which were the chips
 precisely which you would utilize? Are they really the cheapest out there
 even taking into account the external components they require in order to
 function properly, and how/why do they scale out/in-parallel?

 Seriously, guys, this is like the Grail of low cost ambisonic on the
 hardware side. Right now we can do first order at four hifi outputs, but
 quite likely we can't even do eight for second order. Simply forget about
 third or fourth order using any current standard interconnect, either
 because you can't get the data across, or because nobody likes an
 extraneous transformer for something like this.

 So if we do it as compatibly and harmlessly and most efficiently as we
 can, all round, where're connector count, power and datarate curves per
 dollar, here?
 --
 Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
 +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
 ___
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-- 

As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Don't ignore the Chinese :-)

http://www.dx.com/p/usb-2-0-7-1ch-optical-sound-card-audio-adapter-white-orange-172008#.UzkSO4XtX5w
 20 usd inc postage to EU
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-2-0-CH-3D-7-1-Audio-8-Channel-Sound-Card-External-Sound-Pocket-USR71/660029014.html
 25 usd inc Postage to EU

Delivery time is often 3 to 4 weeks to Sweden.
But note that they are only 16 bit cards.

Best Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine 
Leudar
Sent: den 30 mars 2014 22:22
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

no uk suppliers on ebay - all from the States. I eventually found it on some 
obscure website - but at 3 times the price as US - still cheap though.
That  ST-Lab USB Sound Box looks good though.


On 30 March 2014 02:25, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote:

 Augustine Leudar gustar...@gmail.com a écrit :
  anyone know of a UK/Ireland supplier of the Sabrant USB-SND8 ?

 Ebay?

 Also look for the ST-Lab USB Sound Box; it is similar, if not 
 identical.
 --
 Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Jörn Nettingsmeier]

On 03/31/2014 09:14 AM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:

Don't ignore the Chinese :-)

http://www.dx.com/p/usb-2-0-7-1ch-optical-sound-card-audio-adapter-white-orange-172008#.UzkSO4XtX5w
 20 usd inc postage to EU
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-2-0-CH-3D-7-1-Audio-8-Channel-Sound-Card-External-Sound-Pocket-USR71/660029014.html
 25 usd inc Postage to EU

Delivery time is often 3 to 4 weeks to Sweden.
But note that they are only 16 bit cards.



also note that import duty is very likely not included, and that you may 
have to wade through quite a bit of paperwork before you can actually 
pick up your delivery.




--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT

http://stackingdwarves.net

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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Ok that might depend on the local postal systems level of administration 
eagerness.

For low cost stuff like this, the packages just comes to my local post office 
for me to fetch, 
in one case I had to pay VAT and handling for a LCD replacement screen, but 
that was a large package and it was still cheaper than buying it from UK :-)

Bo-Erik in Sweden.


-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jörn 
Nettingsmeier
Sent: den 31 mars 2014 09:24
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

On 03/31/2014 09:14 AM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
 Don't ignore the Chinese :-)

 http://www.dx.com/p/usb-2-0-7-1ch-optical-sound-card-audio-adapter-whi
 te-orange-172008#.UzkSO4XtX5w 20 usd inc postage to EU 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-2-0-CH-3D-7-1-Audio-8-Channel-Sound
 -Card-External-Sound-Pocket-USR71/660029014.html 25 usd inc Postage to 
 EU

 Delivery time is often 3 to 4 weeks to Sweden.
 But note that they are only 16 bit cards.


also note that import duty is very likely not included, and that you may have 
to wade through quite a bit of paperwork before you can actually pick up your 
delivery.



--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT

http://stackingdwarves.net

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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Michael Chapman]

 On 03/31/2014 09:14 AM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
 Don't ignore the Chinese :-)

 http://www.dx.com/p/usb-2-0-7-1ch-optical-sound-card-audio-adapter-white-orange-172008#.UzkSO4XtX5w
 20 usd inc postage to EU
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-2-0-CH-3D-7-1-Audio-8-Channel-Sound-Card-External-Sound-Pocket-USR71/660029014.html
 25 usd inc Postage to EU

 Delivery time is often 3 to 4 weeks to Sweden.
 But note that they are only 16 bit cards.


 also note that import duty is very likely not included, and that you may
 have to wade through quite a bit of paperwork before you can actually
 pick up your delivery.


I've never been clobbered for import duties excepting VAT (TVA/MWT).
In France on small things that only seems to hit one in every two or three
times.

In Switzerland, I hear, where (IIRC) VAT is 8% as againt 20% in France
(and something not far off in the rest of the EU) you --this is very
Swiss-- get charged every time.

Vive la difference!

Suspect the Big Canton* may be more like Switzweland, Jörn?

Michael

* affectionate(?) Swiss name for the geographical area north of
Switzerland ...

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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Richard Dobson]

There is an even cheaper one (£23.70, Amazon):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003IMG3L2

Looks like a clone of ST-Lab (etc). Looks all the ones with 4 buttons on 
top are based in the same hardware. I will likely take a chance on it as 
I also could also use a cheap USB m/c card, and that is just about an 
impulse-purchase price point. If it works on the R-Pi (all 8 
channels!) that will make it extra interesting.


Richard Dobson

On 30/03/2014 02:25, Marc Lavallée wrote:

Augustine Leudar gustar...@gmail.com a écrit :

anyone know of a UK/Ireland supplier of the Sabrant USB-SND8 ?


Ebay?

Also look for the ST-Lab USB Sound Box;
it is similar, if not identical.
--
Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Augustine Leudar]

wow - where has this unit been ! I have been waiting for one of these
to come along - shame I didnt know about it earlier . brilliant tx

On 23/03/2014, Jan Jacob Hofmann j...@sonicarchitecture.de wrote:
 Hi Alessandro,

 if it is an installation (fixed media) you could go for a wavepayer:


 http://www.memsolution.com/

 it is a sd-card-player, easy to use and you can use it stand alone, so
 you do not have to bring your computer necessarily on site.

 Cheers,

 Jan Jacob




 sound | movement  |  object
 |  space
 sonic architecture   |site: http://www.sonicarchitecture.de
 spatial electronic composition  |  higher order ambisonic music

 ___
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 https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound



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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Augustine Leudar]

anyone know of a UK/Ireland supplier of the Sabrant USB-SND8 ?

On 29/03/2014, Augustine Leudar gustar...@gmail.com wrote:
 wow - where has this unit been ! I have been waiting for one of these
 to come along - shame I didnt know about it earlier . brilliant tx

 On 23/03/2014, Jan Jacob Hofmann j...@sonicarchitecture.de wrote:
 Hi Alessandro,

 if it is an installation (fixed media) you could go for a wavepayer:


 http://www.memsolution.com/

 it is a sd-card-player, easy to use and you can use it stand alone, so
 you do not have to bring your computer necessarily on site.

 Cheers,

 Jan Jacob




 sound | movement  |  object
 |  space
 sonic architecture   |site: http://www.sonicarchitecture.de
 spatial electronic composition  |  higher order ambisonic music

 ___
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 Sursound@music.vt.edu
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 --
 07812675974



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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Marc Lavallée]

Augustine Leudar gustar...@gmail.com a écrit :
 anyone know of a UK/Ireland supplier of the Sabrant USB-SND8 ?

Ebay?

Also look for the ST-Lab USB Sound Box; 
it is similar, if not identical.
--
Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Dave Malham]

For those that don't read German, there are English versions of the manuals
in the manuals section...

Dave


On 23 March 2014 20:35, Jan Jacob Hofmann j...@sonicarchitecture.de wrote:

 Hi Alessandro,

 if it is an installation (fixed media) you could go for a wavepayer:


 http://www.memsolution.com/

 it is a sd-card-player, easy to use and you can use it stand alone, so you
 do not have to bring your computer necessarily on site.

 Cheers,

 Jan Jacob




 sound | movement  |  object |
  space
 sonic architecture   |site: http://www.sonicarchitecture.de
 spatial electronic composition  |  higher order ambisonic music

 ___
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 Sursound@music.vt.edu
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-- 

As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Jan Jacob Hofmann]

Hi Michael,

yes, you are understanding the manual correctly and no - I have not yet tried 
it, sorry...

Jan Jacob


sound | movement  |  object |  
space
sonic architecture   |site: http://www.sonicarchitecture.de
spatial electronic composition  |  higher order ambisonic music

Am 28.03.2014 um 17:00 schrieb sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu:

 Message: 2
 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 08:58:00 - (GMT)
 From: Michael Chapman s...@mchapman.com
 To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu
 Subject: Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
 Message-ID: 57305.90.29.73.166.1395997080.m...@i-a-a.ch
 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8
 
 
 Interesting   . . .
 
 Am I reading the manual correctly that one can daisy-chain these units to
 play (synch-ed) 16, 24, etc. pieces ???
 
 Anyone done that ?
 
 Michael



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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[umashankar manthravadi]

how inexpensive? for less than 200 usd ESI has an eight output usb box with RCA 
connectors. it is well made. for between ten and 20 dollars, there are scores 
of '7.1' usb boxes. they all have eight outputs, use the same ic. some have 
four mini jacks and some have three (with two of them being three channel 
connectors). they are not impressive to look at, but they work, especially with 
ASIO for all.
 
umashankar
 
 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 10:49:19 +0100
 From: sfo...@gmail.com
 To: sursound@music.vt.edu
 Subject: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
 
 Hi all,
 
 can you please suggest me an inexpensive USB multichannel sound card (8ch)
 to use in an installation ?
 
 If possible with drivers for Linux, Win, Mac.
 
 Many thanks in advance
 
 Best
 
 -- 
 Alessandro Fogar
 
 http://www.fogar.it
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Marc Lavallée]

On the cheap side (less than 30 dollars), I tried the Sabrant USB-SND8
and the ST-Lab USB Sound Box; they have four stereo mini-jacks, an
optical input, and works on Linux.
--
Marc

Sun, 23 Mar 2014 15:29:01 +0530,
umashankar manthravadi wrote :

 how inexpensive? for less than 200 usd ESI has an eight output usb
 box with RCA connectors. it is well made. for between ten and 20
 dollars, there are scores of '7.1' usb boxes. they all have eight
 outputs, use the same ic. some have four mini jacks and some have
 three (with two of them being three channel connectors). they are not
 impressive to look at, but they work, especially with ASIO for all.
 umashankar 
  Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 10:49:19 +0100
  From: sfo...@gmail.com
  To: sursound@music.vt.edu
  Subject: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
  
  Hi all,
  
  can you please suggest me an inexpensive USB multichannel sound
  card (8ch) to use in an installation ?
  
  If possible with drivers for Linux, Win, Mac.
  
  Many thanks in advance
  
  Best
  
  -- 
  Alessandro Fogar
  
  http://www.fogar.it
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Eric Benjamin]

I can recommend the very inexpensive Sabrent SND-8, which is $19 at Amazon.  
It's not great, but it's certainly adequate!



 From: Alessandro Fogar sfo...@gmail.com
To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 2:49 AM
Subject: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
 

Hi all,

can you please suggest me an inexpensive USB multichannel sound card (8ch)
to use in an installation ?

If possible with drivers for Linux, Win, Mac.

Many thanks in advance

Best

-- 
Alessandro Fogar

http://www.fogar.it
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Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card

[Jan Jacob Hofmann]

Hi Alessandro,

if it is an installation (fixed media) you could go for a wavepayer:


http://www.memsolution.com/

it is a sd-card-player, easy to use and you can use it stand alone, so  
you do not have to bring your computer necessarily on site.


Cheers,

Jan Jacob




sound | movement  |  object  
|  space

sonic architecture   |site: http://www.sonicarchitecture.de
spatial electronic composition  |  higher order ambisonic music

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