Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Joseph Anderson]

Thanks for this Aaron!!

(BTW, I have a difficult enough time staying on the ground, as it is!!)


My best,
Jo


*Dr Joseph Anderson | Research Scientist*

DXARTS, Box 353414

University of Washington

Seattle, WA 98195-3680



http://www.dxarts.washington.edu


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On Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 4:39 PM Aaron Heller  wrote:

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>   information.  Please contact the UW-IT Service Center,
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> |---!
>
> I uploaded my copy of the CIPIC data and docs to
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/CIPIC/__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!g9BEUM2ZSUl6zbdX5VZ1emo0nI1Y-2zIKwKD5NUtAUy6jYsJZ5fkcoO9hDxqG_zHOZM32ddHxfP_kcU$
>
> and hacked together a readme.md based on the original home page for the
> data
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/CIPIC/cipic_readme.md__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!g9BEUM2ZSUl6zbdX5VZ1emo0nI1Y-2zIKwKD5NUtAUy6jYsJZ5fkcoO9hDxqG_zHOZM32ddHbgcGe1s$
>
> I apologize in advance for the lack of aviation content.
>
> Aaron Heller
> Menlo Park, CA  US
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 4:45 PM Joseph Anderson  wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Does anyone know the status of the online listing of the CIPIC HRTF
> > Database?
> >
> > The link below doesn't appear to be active.
> >
> > "The CIPIC HRTF Database - CIPIC International Laboratory." [Online].
> > Available:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://interface.cipic.ucdavis.edu/sound/hrtf.html__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!g9BEUM2ZSUl6zbdX5VZ1emo0nI1Y-2zIKwKD5NUtAUy6jYsJZ5fkcoO9hDxqG_zHOZM32ddHub8czbw$
> .
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> >
> > My best,
> >
> >
> > *Dr Joseph Anderson | Research Scientist*
> >
> > DXARTS, Box 353414
> >
> > University of Washington
> >
> > Seattle, WA 98195-3680
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.dxarts.washington.edu
> >
> >
> > Subscribe to our events list  >
> > to receive email updates about lectures, performances, exhibitions and
> > more.
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Aaron Heller]

I uploaded my copy of the CIPIC data and docs to
http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/CIPIC/

and hacked together a readme.md based on the original home page for the data
http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/CIPIC/cipic_readme.md

I apologize in advance for the lack of aviation content.

Aaron Heller
Menlo Park, CA  US



On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 4:45 PM Joseph Anderson  wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Does anyone know the status of the online listing of the CIPIC HRTF
> Database?
>
> The link below doesn't appear to be active.
>
> "The CIPIC HRTF Database - CIPIC International Laboratory." [Online].
> Available: http://interface.cipic.ucdavis.edu/sound/hrtf.html.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
> My best,
>
>
> *Dr Joseph Anderson | Research Scientist*
>
> DXARTS, Box 353414
>
> University of Washington
>
> Seattle, WA 98195-3680
>
>
>
> http://www.dxarts.washington.edu
>
>
> Subscribe to our events list 
> to receive email updates about lectures, performances, exhibitions and
> more.
> -- next part --
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Martin Leese]

Fons Adriaensen  A 'spiral', very different from any spin, was mentioned,
> and Sampo seemed to think that recovery from that would
> require regaining speed. The opposite is true, as in a
> spiral your airspeed will increase [1]. Unless you recover,
> there are two ways in which it can end: by smashing into
> the ground, by or structural breakdown as the result of
> excessive speed.
>
> So as part of spiral recovery, you need to reduce speed.

I am never been a pilot, but my understanding
is that a fighter jet can also deploy a parachute
from the tail.   This reduces the airspeed, and
so helps the pilot escape from a spiral.

Sigmund Gudvangen wrote:
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Death Spiral
>
> What has this aviation stuff to do with surround sound?

Well, nothing; boy, is my face red.  Please
ignore this post.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Stefan Schreiber]

Maybe it is me who now really would need some crash course in aviation, but:

Is flying in a spiral not something you would do in some intentional way?

(Opposite to the spin situation, because this is kind of uncontrolled.  
Or you "have to do something".)


So in which sense would you have to "recover" from the spiral?

I read this before, btw:

"But whoever cares, really? We all know what we're talking about.  
Especially when you have to use the instrument in order to deliver  
yourself and your passengers from a death spiral."


So what is this spiral? A situation when the plane is spinning, even a  
stall (interruption of air flow), or what else?


(Please enlighten me, and then I will ask Anders H. "what to do". ;-)

Best,

Stefan

- Mensagem de Fons Adriaensen  -

 Data: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 21:45:38 +0100

 De: Fons Adriaensen 

 Assunto: Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

 Para: sursound@music.vt.edu


On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 07:08:51PM +, Stefan Schreiber wrote:


I am just “sharing” what a Swedish pilot and aviation engineer wrote to me,

 discussing and clarifying your problem(s)... ;-)


We were not discussing spins, either upright or inverted.



 A 'spiral', very different from any spin, was mentioned,

 and Sampo seemed to think that recovery from that would

 require regaining speed. The opposite is true, as in a

 spiral your airspeed will increase [1]. Unless you recover,

 there are two ways in which it can end: by smashing into

 the ground, by or structural breakdown as the result of

 excessive speed.



 So as part of spiral recovery, you need to reduce speed.



 [1] As it will during any turn, unless you compensate

 by pulling the stick to maintain altitude.



 Ciao,



 --

 FA



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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 07:08:51PM +, Stefan Schreiber wrote:

> I am just “sharing” what a Swedish pilot and aviation engineer wrote to me,
> discussing and clarifying your problem(s)... ;-)

We were not discussing spins, either upright or inverted.

A 'spiral', very different from any spin, was mentioned, 
and Sampo seemed to think that recovery from that would
require regaining speed. The opposite is true, as in a 
spiral your airspeed will increase [1]. Unless you recover,
there are two ways in which it can end: by smashing into
the ground, by or structural breakdown as the result of
excessive speed.

So as part of spiral recovery, you need to reduce speed.

[1] As it will during any turn, unless you compensate
by pulling the stick to maintain altitude.

Ciao,

-- 
FA

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Stefan Schreiber]

Fons, Sampo:

I am just “sharing” what a Swedish pilot and aviation engineer wrote  
to me, discussing and clarifying your problem(s)... ;-)


Best,

Stefan

P.S.: 

“I'll explain when we meet again.”

🤔

- Mensagem de anders[1] ... -

 Data: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 13:12:12 +0100

 De: anders@[1]...

 Assunto: Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

 Para: Stefan Schreiber 

It sounds like a description of how to come out of an inverted  
(upside-down) spin.


 That would require a pull to get the nose down.



 In a spin, one wing is in the centre of the rotation and does not  
have lift. The outer wing flies forward and has lift and therefore  
tumbles you sideways as in a cartwheel. Very confusing!!


 It is a situation where you have to get the nose DOWN and give max  
rudder towards the flying wing so both wings get equal lift  
(airspeed) and stops the tumbling. With the nose down you fly again  
and can now concentrate on levelling off before coming too closeto  
the ground.




 CLEAR and logical??

 I'll explain when we meet again.

 :)







 2023-02-20 20:05 skrev Stefan Schreiber:


From some "music technology" discussion... ;-)



 Best regards



 Stefan



 - Mensagem de Fons Adriaensen  -



 Data: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 12:44:46 +0100



 De: Fons Adriaensen 



 Assunto: Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?



 Para: sursound@music.vt.edu


On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 05:06:39PM +0200, Sampo Syreeni wrote:


I'd put counter-aileron, maybe some rudder, and often pull down

 to recover airspeed...


'pull down' ??



 You either 'pull up' or 'push down'...



 And if you're in a spiral, there is no need to recover



 airspeed - it will be dangerously high and you want to



 reduce it.



 Ciao,



 --



 FA



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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Chris Woolf]

You add some attractive academic thought to this problem - more 
organised than my original poke.


Can I throw in another silly thought? The "training" to cope with a 
modified HRTF - say, putting on a tilted wide-brimmed hat and pulling a 
thick scarf round one's neck - seems to take place almost instantly. As 
someone mentioned on this list before, this is probably because there 
are visual clues that allow us to re-calibrate our direction sensing, 
most particularly if the changes are within a range that we have often 
met before. That familiarity seems necessary,  because I've noticed that 
if one of my ears is temporarily blocked for some reason, I can still 
make the directional re-calibration but it definitely takes longer - 
long enough for me to be conscious of doing it.


The silly thought is, do we just need a short-term feedback correction? 
A brief visual cue, which can subsequently be dropped, because our 
neural correction system retains the re-calibration until something else 
occurs to convince our brain that it needs to correct again. No idea how 
you might experiment with that


Chris Woolf


On 15/02/2023 13:43, Sampo Syreeni wrote:

On 2022-12-31, Chris Woolf wrote:

It has always struck me that we can indeed adapt remarkably quickly 
to local changes in our personal HTRF, and that therefore this needs 
to be considered as a dynamic affair, rather than a purely static one.


By the way, there are even more remarkable examples of that 
adaptability in psychophysics. Perhaps the most dramatic I know of is 
the one of inverting goggles. Apparently, if you consistently wear a 
headset which flips your vision upside down, in about two to three 
weeks your circuits adjust to compensate, and then back again once you 
stop the experiment. That happens even if you're an adult, so that 
this is not an example of early childhood, low level plasticity and 
the irreversibility that comes with it. (Pace kittens only shown 
vertical stripes and that sort of thing.)


So how much precision is really needed for an HRTF? And how 
inaccurate can it be for our normal correction ability to deal with it?


Perhaps even more to the point, what precisely are the mechanisms 
which enable us to compensate like that? Because if we really 
understood what they are, maybe we could take conscious advantage of 
them, to rapidly train people to work with a generalized HRTF set, 
instead of going the hard way of measuring or modelling individualized 
head, torso and pinna responses.


One obvious answer is feedback. I'd argue the main reason head 
tracking works so well is that we're tuned to correlate how we move 
with the sensory input provoked by the movement. That's for instance 
how children appear to learn first occlusion and then by extension 
object constancy. In audition, I've had the pleasure of trying out a 
research system in which different kinds of head tracked binaural 
auralization methods were available for side by side comparison. The 
system worked surprisingly well even with no HRTF's applied, but just 
amplitude and delay variation against an idealized pair of point omni 
receivers. I also adapted to it *really* fast, like in ten minutes or so.


But is there more? Head tracking, especially in a directionally solid 
and low latency form, isn't exactly an over the counter solution yet. 
So could you perhaps at least partially substitute the learning from 
feedback with something like synchronized visual or tactile cues, in a 
training session? Because if you could, you'd suddenly gain a lower 
cost yet at least somewhat effective version of binaural rendering; 
there would be money to be made.

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2022-12-31, Chris Woolf wrote:

It has always struck me that we can indeed adapt remarkably quickly to 
local changes in our personal HTRF, and that therefore this needs to 
be considered as a dynamic affair, rather than a purely static one.


By the way, there are even more remarkable examples of that adaptability 
in psychophysics. Perhaps the most dramatic I know of is the one of 
inverting goggles. Apparently, if you consistently wear a headset which 
flips your vision upside down, in about two to three weeks your circuits 
adjust to compensate, and then back again once you stop the experiment. 
That happens even if you're an adult, so that this is not an example of 
early childhood, low level plasticity and the irreversibility that comes 
with it. (Pace kittens only shown vertical stripes and that sort of 
thing.)


So how much precision is really needed for an HRTF? And how inaccurate 
can it be for our normal correction ability to deal with it?


Perhaps even more to the point, what precisely are the mechanisms which 
enable us to compensate like that? Because if we really understood what 
they are, maybe we could take conscious advantage of them, to rapidly 
train people to work with a generalized HRTF set, instead of going the 
hard way of measuring or modelling individualized head, torso and pinna 
responses.


One obvious answer is feedback. I'd argue the main reason head tracking 
works so well is that we're tuned to correlate how we move with the 
sensory input provoked by the movement. That's for instance how children 
appear to learn first occlusion and then by extension object constancy. 
In audition, I've had the pleasure of trying out a research system in 
which different kinds of head tracked binaural auralization methods were 
available for side by side comparison. The system worked surprisingly 
well even with no HRTF's applied, but just amplitude and delay variation 
against an idealized pair of point omni receivers. I also adapted to it 
*really* fast, like in ten minutes or so.


But is there more? Head tracking, especially in a directionally solid 
and low latency form, isn't exactly an over the counter solution yet. So 
could you perhaps at least partially substitute the learning from 
feedback with something like synchronized visual or tactile cues, in a 
training session? Because if you could, you'd suddenly gain a lower cost 
yet at least somewhat effective version of binaural rendering; there 
would be money to be made.

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3751464, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 05:06:39PM +0200, Sampo Syreeni wrote:

> I'd put counter-aileron, maybe some rudder, and often pull down
> to recover airspeed...

'pull down' ?? 

You either 'pull up' or 'push down'...

And if you're in a spiral, there is no need to recover
airspeed - it will be dangerously high and you want to
reduce it.

Ciao,

-- 
FA

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2023-02-13, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

People listening to surround sound usually are not in a graveyard 
spiral, nor experiencing turbulence or using sex toys.


Not usually. But if they're in a hard hitting, oscillating, theatre, 
with some 120dB bass, some of which is conduced via the seat... Well, 
yes, they will start to experience that same somato-sensory dysphoria 
we're talking about?


As to Peter Hornfeldt, his YT channel is one of the very few serious 
one on aviation related issues. I'm pretty sure he never used the term 
'synthetic horizon'. The instrument is called 'attitude indicator'.


Granted. But whoever cares, really? We all know what we're talking 
about. Especially when you have to use the instrument in order to 
deliver yourself and your passengers from a death spiral.


Seriously, I'm no flier. I've never once piloted *anything*. But if what 
I call a synthetic horizon went sideways, I'd put counter-aileron, 
maybe some rudder, and often pull down to recover airspeed. Simply 
because of theory. "Trust your meters."

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3751464, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 03:55:18PM +0200, Sampo Syreeni wrote:

> I've actually taken a test towards that. I put my (our) Magic Wand at
> maximum contact and force to my right lower skull, below the ear. I dropped
> out. Then I re-did the experiment simply by exciting the earlobe. I didn't
> drop out, but I still experienced hard disorientation. Didn't know what was
> up or down, left or right. Nausea, nystagmus, all of it.

People listening to surround sound usually are not in a graveyard
spiral, nor experiencing turbulence or using sex toys.

As to Peter Hornfeldt, his YT channel is one of the very few
serious one on aviation related issues. I'm pretty sure he never
used the term 'synthetic horizon'. The instrument is called
'attitude indicator'.

Ciao,

-- 
FA

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2023-02-12, Fons Adriaensen wrote:


What can happen to pilots is something very different.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_illusions_in_aviation

Most of it has to do with the vestibular system, yes. But not all of it. 
Some of it also has to do with audition as well.


I've been watching through the Mentour Pilot channel on YouTube. 
https://www.youtube.com/@MentourPilot That Swedish pilot minds pretty 
much everything, while running down the Final Reports of accidents. If 
you take a look at it, audition is often mentioned.


He's no sursound fiend. But he does mind audio. As do NTSB and the like.

The vestibular system (in the inner ear, sensing rotation and 
acceleration) can generate very strong illusions which can lead to 
complete spatial disorientation even when clear visual cues are 
available.


Obviously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation

Even if the ears are involved, this has nothing at all to do with 
audio.


It actually does. Because when you go into a graveyard spiral or one of 
the other nasty things here, like a climbing stall, you'll experience 
turbulence. As such, a strong resonant bass note or a narrow band, 
strong, hum. That'll fuck up your low frequency hearing as well, and 
since the vestibular tract and the inner ear *are* neurally coupled, 
strong low frequency sounds *can* fuck up your vestibular system.


I've actually taken a test towards that. I put my (our) Magic Wand at 
maximum contact and force to my right lower skull, below the ear. I 
dropped out. Then I re-did the experiment simply by exciting the 
earlobe. I didn't drop out, but I still experienced hard disorientation. 
Didn't know what was up or down, left or right. Nausea, nystagmus, all 
of it.

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3751464, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 05:36:19AM +0200, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
 
> > There exists papers showing that the we humans locks in to visual cues
> > and our experience and allows vision to win.

When the conflict is between auditory and visual, usually the
visual cues will dominate.

> Just ask them pilots. Yes.

What can happen to pilots is something very different.
The vestibular system (in the inner ear, sensing rotation
and acceleration) can generate very strong illusions which
can lead to complete spatial disorientation even when clear
visual cues are available. Even if the ears are involved,
this has nothing at all to do with audio.

Ciao,

-- 
FA

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2023-01-01, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:

The problem for us with ambisonics is in most cases we do not have any 
visual reference to confirm or adjust the acoustic cues to any 
reference.


This is actually a good point. I've been looking at airline crash videos 
right now, and in many of those what went wrong was that the pilot 
didn't mind hir synthetic horizon.


So, comes to mind, why don't we deliver a synthetic horizon with audio 
systems? Something like that could well help the listener oriented, in 
hir synethesia. Many less channels and speakers might do the deed, if 
helped out by some kind of visual aid.


There exists papers showing that the we humans locks in to visual cues 
and our experience and allows vision to win.


Just ask them pilots. Yes.
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2022-12-30, Marc Lavallée wrote:

Because individualized HRTF measurements are made using in-ear 
microphones, using in-ear monitors for binaural reproduction seems an 
easy strategy to avoid effects of headphone cavities, [...]


I'd also argue most in-ear monitors have been done wrong. Because the 
nice, painless way of doing them interrupts the acoustic canal to the 
ear from the outside. The instrumentation tends to obstruct the canal, 
so that it varies the measurement.


The proper way to do it would be to inject a slight and sensitive probe 
from behind, via tissue, right in front of the tympanic membrane.


This could now be done, but none of the studies I'm aware of *still* 
haven't done it so. Quite probably because something like this would be 
painful, and if analgesia would be tried as close to the inner or middle 
ear, it'd then also foul up your hearing.

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2022-12-30, glardner wrote:

They had four loudspeakers in each side of the headphones and fancy 
software to control them.


Just stupid: within a confined headphone cover, it's going to be a 
resonant space. No array of speakers is going to be directional. Adding 
more speakers is just going to mess things up.


Salesspeak, fuck that shit. It ain't sound acoustics.
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2022-12-30, brian.k...@sorbonne-universite.fr wrote:


I will chime in here on this discussion again.


As will I, as a pure amateur.

While HRTF selection/individualization is a work in progress, the use 
of selection combined with ITD individualization and better yet with 
headtracking tackles many of the issues. I do not think personal ear 
molds and the like are required, though they are a nice way to get 
individual HRTFs via gestalt measurements (either on a dummy head or 
numerical simulation).


Ear molds are not necessary, indeed. They only go as far as the ear 
canal, which is a *very* small part of the overall HRTF/IRTF. Just by 
physical measurement, it affects only the very highest frequencies, much 
of which people of my age (43a) can't even hear.


What is more to the point is the shape of the pinnae, the size of the 
head (separation between the ears across the skull), and the upper 
torso. Also, how much fat you have there makes a difference in the lower 
frequencies.


And in fact, one of the things nobody speaks of is how we *too* actively 
listen to sound. We might not have *quite* the ears of a bunny, but we 
*do* possess muscles which orient our ears dynamically towards an 
oncoming sound. I for instance learned to consciously control some of 
those muscles by example of my second grade teacher; I can still pull 
back my earlobes a centimetre or so by command, and I'm acutely aware of 
them doing their thing otherwise when I'm locating point sources under 
acute stress.


I believe these sorts of things which haven't been well accounted for, 
are the reason binaural fails, over and over. Despite its theoretically 
high potential. Why headtracking fares so well, and why headtracking 
combined with ear moulds doesn't quite compound as we'd expect.


Head dimensions provide a very good indication of ITD variations, and 
can be used to individualize HRTF data on that front.


Yes. Also neck and shoulders, height above ground, torsion, because 
those lead to combing from the whole torso and ground up. Dynamically 
even. Though that is then very difficult to measure and simulate.


I know of no studies that should there are significant individual HRTF 
differences resulting from fat content or torso shape.


(You ahead of me.) There may not be studies, but basic physical 
acoustics tells us they will be there. They will be indiscernible beyond 
the middle range of say 1-2kHz, but below, they will do stuff. Because 
now you'll have body resonances and then bone conduction to the inner 
ear.


Hair/head covering is a different factor, and has been shown to be 
audible.


Of course it is. It's a highly nonlinear and dissipative medium, and 
even in the regime of it just being heavy in aggregate, obviously it 
dampens down what we hear.


But then it's also stuff our neural circuits have evolved and learned to 
tune out. It's a distraction, *well* tuned out. (I keep a ponytail. Even 
if it sometimes flares out, rarely does that take out my directional 
hearing for more than a few seconds.)


However, the effect would not be expected to beyond understanding, and 
one could imagine spatial correction filters to modify the HRTF 
relative to such absorption characteristics.


Do we need adaptation here at all? I'd argue relying on neural 
adaptation on part of the subject would fare much better.


It all remains a linear system and such layers could be separately 
processed, as with ITD processing.


There's nothing linear about this. And I'd argue, there shouldn't be. 
Linear is maybe easy, but then trying to keep it all linear, isn't how 
it should be done. In some cases, going with the nonlinearity of the 
basic problem is *easier* than trying to linearize it.


It must be repeated that our auditory system adapts to our own local 
changes, in clothing, hair style, etc. and we are not significantly 
thrown off by such things (at least after adaptive listening for a 
bit). So, such changes can be feasibly incorporated, with the 
inclusion adaptation.


FFS, great minds seem to think alike. Again, you're ahead of me. :)

As for the multichannel headphone proposal, this does not alleviate 
all the above non-pinna variations mentioned.


Also, it's *very* difficult to reproduce multiple moments within a small 
headphone capsule. That's because you cannot emanate soundwaves 
pointwise, using any kind of compact actuator. In ambisonics, you *can* 
emanate near-planewaves, and in NFC-HOA or WFS, you *can* put in 
constructive wavefronts, from afar. But at headphone distances, that is 
almost impossible. It is almost impossibly unstable to do as well.


However, it is an interesting notion to provide wavefronts tot the 
indvidual's actual pinnae (requiring only multichannel head/torso 
related intensity vector transfer functions) that has been developed 
on and off over the years.


Yes. So I'd argue it has to be done from afar. First, via Ambisonics to 
get our ears to central low order thingies, an

Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Chris Woolf]

Such a good point. Thank you.

I'm too rooted in the film and TV world, where a visual anchor 
invariably exists.


Chris Woolf


On 01/01/2023 09:21, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
The   problem for us with ambisonics is in most cases we do not have 
any visual reference to confirm or adjust the acoustic  cues to any 
reference.


There exists papers showing that the we humans locks in to visual cues 
and our experience and allows vision to win.


Bo-Erik



Den lör 31 dec. 2022 16:04Chris Woolf  skrev:


On 30/12/2022 18:33, brian.k...@sorbonne-universite.fr wrote:
>  It must be repeated that our auditory system adapts to our
own local changes, in clothing, hair style, etc. and we are not
significantly thrown off by such things (at least after adaptive
listening for a bit). ions, view archives and so on.

Great to see that mentioned.

It has always struck me that we can indeed adapt remarkably
quickly to
local changes in our personal HTRF, and that therefore this needs
to be
considered as a dynamic affair, rather than a purely static one.

If you suffer a temporarily blocked ear - after swimming, say - your
stereo perception may be bent out of accuracy for a few minutes,
but the
(extreme gain/frequency  inaccuracy gets accounted for within our
brains
and we soon find visual and aural alignment back more or less
correctly.

Likewise putting on wooly hat, a coat with a thick collar, or a heavy
scarf - all objects that should wreck the accuracy of a static HTRF -
have only the most limited of effects on positional accuracy.

So how much precision is really needed for an HRTF? And how
inaccurate
can it be for our normal correction ability to deal with it?

Chris Woolf

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The   problem for us with ambisonics is in most cases we do not have any
visual reference to confirm or adjust the acoustic  cues to any reference.

There exists papers showing that the we humans locks in to visual cues and
our experience and allows vision to win.

Bo-Erik



Den lör 31 dec. 2022 16:04Chris Woolf  skrev:

>
> On 30/12/2022 18:33, brian.k...@sorbonne-universite.fr wrote:
> >  It must be repeated that our auditory system adapts to our own
> local changes, in clothing, hair style, etc. and we are not significantly
> thrown off by such things (at least after adaptive listening for a bit).
> ions, view archives and so on.
>
> Great to see that mentioned.
>
> It has always struck me that we can indeed adapt remarkably quickly to
> local changes in our personal HTRF, and that therefore this needs to be
> considered as a dynamic affair, rather than a purely static one.
>
> If you suffer a temporarily blocked ear - after swimming, say - your
> stereo perception may be bent out of accuracy for a few minutes, but the
> (extreme gain/frequency  inaccuracy gets accounted for within our brains
> and we soon find visual and aural alignment back more or less correctly.
>
> Likewise putting on wooly hat, a coat with a thick collar, or a heavy
> scarf - all objects that should wreck the accuracy of a static HTRF -
> have only the most limited of effects on positional accuracy.
>
> So how much precision is really needed for an HRTF? And how inaccurate
> can it be for our normal correction ability to deal with it?
>
> Chris Woolf
>
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Chris Woolf]

On 30/12/2022 18:33, brian.k...@sorbonne-universite.fr wrote:

 It must be repeated that our auditory system adapts to our own local 
changes, in clothing, hair style, etc. and we are not significantly thrown off 
by such things (at least after adaptive listening for a bit). ions, view 
archives and so on.


Great to see that mentioned.

It has always struck me that we can indeed adapt remarkably quickly to 
local changes in our personal HTRF, and that therefore this needs to be 
considered as a dynamic affair, rather than a purely static one.


If you suffer a temporarily blocked ear - after swimming, say - your 
stereo perception may be bent out of accuracy for a few minutes, but the 
(extreme gain/frequency  inaccuracy gets accounted for within our brains 
and we soon find visual and aural alignment back more or less correctly.


Likewise putting on wooly hat, a coat with a thick collar, or a heavy 
scarf - all objects that should wreck the accuracy of a static HTRF - 
have only the most limited of effects on positional accuracy.


So how much precision is really needed for an HRTF? And how inaccurate 
can it be for our normal correction ability to deal with it?


Chris Woolf

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[Stefan Schreiber]

I just saw that the link I have cited doesn't appear on sursound. So I  
just post the text version:


https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/20/after-tens-of-thousands-of-pre-orders-high-end-3d-headphones-startup-ossic-disappears/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACZ9kQuEDKfM8UfVIjHd1RXoyXlbjQfcEvNvqi7d0FpdPkBgj5mE2l0OOk5x2kqBoKdt5i37ruaFDePD48gTHsj5lLabiSUh_qPWNL-x226h-BLNT1iW_iTFpRMJIHMIRx1vQkNoYRaGFrY0Cl3vZgCh8FP_5VLSE5BgQCzCg5Ii

Should work this time, otherwise do some Google search...

Best

Stefan

- - - 

"This is more ot less what OSSIC Corp tried to do with Ossic X.  
They raised nearly $3M on Kickstarter but managed to burn through  
most of it without delivering more than a few dozen prototypes and,  
they claimed, a few hundred early production examples. They had  
four loudspeakers in each side of the headphones and fancy software  
to control them.I don't believe it was a fraudulent project but  
definitely bad project management. Goal creep became outrageous.  
They were finally declared bankrupt about a year ago."


- - - -



 Ossic-x went already bankrupt in 2018.



 After tens of thousands of pre-orders, 3D audio headphones startup  
Ossic disappears | TechCrunch[1]




 They probably waited for some high-profile buyout, which never  
materialized.  And so...   ;-)




 Best,



 Stefan

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[Stefan Schreiber]

"This is more ot less what OSSIC Corp tried to do with Ossic X. They  
raised nearly $3M on Kickstarter but managed to burn through most of  
it without delivering more than a few dozen prototypes and, they  
claimed, a few hundred early production examples. They had four  
loudspeakers in each side of the headphones and fancy software to  
control them.I don't believe it was a fraudulent project but  
definitely bad project management. Goal creep became outrageous.  
They were finally declared bankrupt about a year ago."


- - - -

Ossic-x went already bankrupt in 2018.

After tens of thousands of pre-orders, 3D audio headphones startup  
Ossic disappears | TechCrunch[1]


They probably waited for some high-profile buyout, which never  
materialized.  And so...   ;-)


Best,

Stefan


Ligações:
-
[1]  
https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/20/after-tens-of-thousands-of-pre-orders-high-end-3d-headphones-startup-ossic-disappears/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACZ9kQuEDKfM8UfVIjHd1RXoyXlbjQfcEvNvqi7d0FpdPkBgj5mE2l0OOk5x2kqBoKdt5i37ruaFDePD48gTHsj5lLabiSUh_qPWNL-x226h-BLNT1iW_iTFpRMJIHMIRx1vQkNoYRaGFrY0Cl3vZgCh8FP_5VLSE5BgQCzCg5Ii

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Marc Lavallée]

Le 2022-12-30 à 13 h 33, brian.k...@sorbonne-universite.fr a écrit :


The main issue in my experience has been the acoustics within any type of 
headphone cavity which make creating directional wavefronts almost impossible. 
For example, the prototype of Greff used an open grid with speakers, providing 
interesting results, but once enclosed for better frequency bandwidth and a 
commercial device the same results were not achieved.


Because individualized HRTF measurements are made using in-ear 
microphones, using in-ear monitors for binaural reproduction seems an 
easy strategy to avoid effects of headphone cavities, but there must be 
other (or similar) effects when the drivers are closer to the eardrums. 
I suppose that when the reproduction drivers are not directly in the ear 
canal, they better be at certain distance to immerse the whole body or 
at least the head (not only the ears) with synthesized wavefronts.


Le 2022-12-30 à 16 h 58, glardner a écrit :

This is more ot less what OSSIC Corp tried to do with Ossic X. They raised 
nearly $3M on Kickstarter but managed to burn through most of it without 
delivering more than a few dozen prototypes and, they claimed, a few hundred 
early production examples. They had four loudspeakers in each side of the 
headphones and fancy software to control them.


I like Umashankar's idea of an "audio cage", but the sweet spot must be 
small.


We may get individuated HRTFs before nuclear fusion, and setting up 
loudspeakers at home is already possible, so... Qu'est-ce qu'on attend 
pour être heureux?


Marc

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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[glardner]

This is more ot less what OSSIC Corp tried to do with Ossic X. They raised 
nearly $3M on Kickstarter but managed to burn through most of it without 
delivering more than a few dozen prototypes and, they claimed, a few hundred 
early production examples. They had four loudspeakers in each side of the 
headphones and fancy software to control them.I don't believe it was a 
fraudulent project but definitely bad project management. Goal creep became 
outrageous. They were finally declared bankrupt about a year ago.
 Original message From: Sampo Syreeni  Date: 
30/12/2022  02:38  (GMT+00:00) To: Surround Sound discussion group 
 Subject: Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph 
Anderson) So how about going about it a different way for a change? Would it be 
possible to design a set of headphones which actually locally reproduced a high 
order soundfield, for any set of pinnae to utilize? As they naturally do? Kind 
of like do very high order ambisonics or WFS, but now right besides the ear, 
and headtracked? I mean that ought to take the HRTF modelling aspect fully out 
of the picture: the pinna would do what it does for each, and then the upper 
torso reflections would also be much easier to simulate numerically, since they 
are of lower order and at lower frequency.-- 
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[brian.katz]

I will chime in here on this discussion again. 

While HRTF selection/individualization is a work in progress, the use of 
selection combined with ITD individualization and better yet with headtracking 
tackles many of the issues. I do not think personal ear molds and the like are 
required, though they are a nice way to get individual HRTFs via gestalt 
measurements (either on a dummy head or numerical simulation). 

Head dimensions provide a very good indication of ITD variations, and can be 
used to individualize HRTF data on that front. I know of no studies that should 
there are significant individual HRTF differences resulting from fat content or 
torso shape. These elements can likely be assumed common across people, at 
least as a first or second approximation. Hair/head covering is a different 
factor, and has been shown to be audible. However, the effect would not be 
expected to beyond understanding, and one could imagine spatial correction 
filters to modify the HRTF relative to such absorption characteristics. It all 
remains a linear system and such layers could be separately processed, as with 
ITD processing. It must be repeated that our auditory system adapts to our own 
local changes, in clothing, hair style, etc. and we are not significantly 
thrown off by such things (at least after adaptive listening for a bit). So, 
such changes can be feasibly incorporated, with the inclusion adaptation. 

As for the multichannel headphone proposal, this does not alleviate all the 
above non-pinna variations mentioned. However, it is an interesting notion to 
provide wavefronts tot the indvidual's actual pinnae (requiring only 
multichannel head/torso related intensity vector transfer functions) that has 
been developed on and off over the years. See, for example: 
- D. Sastrapradja, Sound Localization Simulation via Wavefront Recreation, 
Masters of Science, The Pennsylvania State University, 1997
- R. Greff, Binaural holophony - Sound spatialization over circumaural 
transducer arrays, PhD Thesis, Paris VI, 2008 
(https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-00619404) 
- J. Wang, P. Samarasinghe, T. Abhayapala and J. A. Zhang, "Binaural 
Reproduction Using Multi-Driver Headphones," 2022 International Workshop on 
Acoustic Signal Enhancement (IWAENC), 2022, pp. 1-5, doi: 
10.1109/IWAENC53105.2022.9914750

There are also on-going projects in this area with the team of Piotr Majdak at 
the Austrian Academy of Sciences. 

The main issue in my experience has been the acoustics within any type of 
headphone cavity which make creating directional wavefronts almost impossible. 
For example, the prototype of Greff used an open grid with speakers, providing 
interesting results, but once enclosed for better frequency bandwidth and a 
commercial device the same results were not achieved. 

> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2022 04:38:13 +0200 (EET)
> On 2022-12-26, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:

> > As a amateur I had a idea that I could use a CIPIC HRTF but I did not 
> > find an easy way to select one that had any chance to be a a good fit 
> > for me.

> This has always been a problem with in-ear measurements and HRTF/HRIR 
> processing reliant on them. While in theory that's the ultimate way to 
> deliver binaural sound to our two ears, fitting the transfer functions has 
> always been a pain,  and rarely doable right without going with personalised 
> ear molds and the like.

> > In my naivity I hoped for at least skull diameter and som pictures of 
> > ear shape.

> Not going to happen, because skull, upper torso shape, and e.g. 
> subcutaneous fat content in the face and upper torso areas influence the near 
> field reaching the ears quite a lot, especially at the lower frequencies. 
> Even the uneven cartilage development of the pinnae, and the hairstyle worn, 
> appear to heavily influence the field impinging on your ear canals. So does 
> clothing and apparel, as does instantaneous posture.

> So, at least to my amateur's eye (ear) it seems almost impossible to average 
> over all of those separate and temporally variable locational cues so that we 
> could somehow find a way to calibrate binaural in-ear phones to work truly 
> well. When headtracked, they sort of work, but even then I know from a couple 
> of tests they aren't perfect. The two friends I have who've actually had 
> their ear canals molded and have taken a KEMAR-like test set on theirselves, 
> aren't too impressed by the results.

> So how about going about it a different way for a change? Would it be 
> possible to design a set of headphones which actually locally reproduced a 
> high order soundfield, for any set of pinnae to utilize? As they naturally 
> do? Kind of like do very high order ambisonics or WFS, but now right besides 
> the ear, and headtracked? I mean that ought to take the HRTF modelling aspect 
> fully out of the picture: the pinna would do what it does for each, and then 
> the upper torso reflections would also be much easier to simulate 

Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[umashankar manthravadi]

dear sampo

you are right. it was clumsily made. but i think the idea works.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Sampo Syreeni 

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 8:49 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

On 2022-12-30, umashankar manthravadi wrote:

> a few years ago i tried to solve these problems by building an eight
> loudspeaker (1" speakers) cage to rest on my shoulders. The array
> moves with the body, but not with the head. The aim was to get rid of
> HRTF and head tracking.

Somehow I seem to get it didn't work too well in the end. Maybe a more
compact and more intelligent setup would be warranted instead?
--
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2022-12-30, umashankar manthravadi wrote:

a few years ago i tried to solve these problems by building an eight 
loudspeaker (1" speakers) cage to rest on my shoulders. The array 
moves with the body, but not with the head. The aim was to get rid of 
HRTF and head tracking.


Somehow I seem to get it didn't work too well in the end. Maybe a more 
compact and more intelligent setup would be warranted instead?

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3751464, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[umashankar manthravadi]

dear sampo

a few years ago i tried to solve these problems by building an eight 
loudspeaker (1" speakers) cage to rest on my shoulders. The array moves with 
the body, but not with the head. The aim was to get rid of HRTF and head 
tracking.

umashankar

From: Sursound  on behalf of Sampo Syreeni 

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 8:08 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

On 2022-12-26, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:

> As a amateur I had a idea that I could use a CIPIC HRTF but I did not
> find an easy way to select one that had any chance to be a a good fit
> for me.

This has always been a problem with in-ear measurements and HRTF/HRIR
processing reliant on them. While in theory that's the ultimate way to
deliver binaural sound to our two ears, fitting the transfer functions
has always been a pain, and rarely doable right without going with
personalised ear molds and the like.


> In my naivity I hoped for at least skull diameter and som pictures of
> ear shape.

Not going to happen, because skull, upper torso shape, and e.g.
subcutaneous fat content in the face and upper torso areas influence the
near field reaching the ears quite a lot, especially at the lower
frequencies. Even the uneven cartilage development of the pinnae, and
the hairstyle worn, appear to heavily influence the field impinging on
your ear canals. So does clothing and apparel, as does instantaneous
posture.

So, at least to my amateur's eye (ear) it seems almost impossible to
average over all of those separate and temporally variable locational
cues so that we could somehow find a way to calibrate binaural in-ear
phones to work truly well. When headtracked, they sort of work, but even
then I know from a couple of tests they aren't perfect. The two friends
I have who've actually had their ear canals molded and have taken a
KEMAR-like test set on theirselves, aren't too impressed by the results.

So how about going about it a different way for a change? Would it be
possible to design a set of headphones which actually locally reproduced
a high order soundfield, for any set of pinnae to utilize? As they
naturally do? Kind of like do very high order ambisonics or WFS, but now
right besides the ear, and headtracked? I mean that ought to take the
HRTF modelling aspect fully out of the picture: the pinna would do what
it does for each, and then the upper torso reflections would also be
much easier to simulate numerically, since they are of lower order and
at lower frequency.
--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, 
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdecoy.iki.fi%2Ffront&data=05%7C01%7C%7C14797040562a49c0232408daea0ee9af%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638079647027724710%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ykjz%2Fz%2BGisTL88xRuLhkzanGk8hIPbGNRA6bbNgnyDs%3D&reserved=0
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2022-12-26, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:

As a amateur I had a idea that I could use a CIPIC HRTF but I did not 
find an easy way to select one that had any chance to be a a good fit 
for me.


This has always been a problem with in-ear measurements and HRTF/HRIR 
processing reliant on them. While in theory that's the ultimate way to 
deliver binaural sound to our two ears, fitting the transfer functions 
has always been a pain, and rarely doable right without going with 
personalised ear molds and the like.



In my naivity I hoped for at least skull diameter and som pictures of 
ear shape.


Not going to happen, because skull, upper torso shape, and e.g. 
subcutaneous fat content in the face and upper torso areas influence the 
near field reaching the ears quite a lot, especially at the lower 
frequencies. Even the uneven cartilage development of the pinnae, and 
the hairstyle worn, appear to heavily influence the field impinging on 
your ear canals. So does clothing and apparel, as does instantaneous 
posture.


So, at least to my amateur's eye (ear) it seems almost impossible to 
average over all of those separate and temporally variable locational 
cues so that we could somehow find a way to calibrate binaural in-ear 
phones to work truly well. When headtracked, they sort of work, but even 
then I know from a couple of tests they aren't perfect. The two friends 
I have who've actually had their ear canals molded and have taken a 
KEMAR-like test set on theirselves, aren't too impressed by the results.


So how about going about it a different way for a change? Would it be 
possible to design a set of headphones which actually locally reproduced 
a high order soundfield, for any set of pinnae to utilize? As they 
naturally do? Kind of like do very high order ambisonics or WFS, but now 
right besides the ear, and headtracked? I mean that ought to take the 
HRTF modelling aspect fully out of the picture: the pinna would do what 
it does for each, and then the upper torso reflections would also be 
much easier to simulate numerically, since they are of lower order and 
at lower frequency.

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3751464, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[brian.katz]

Dear Bosse, 

Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 10:17:48 +0100
From: Bo-Erik Sandholm 
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

As a amateur I had a idea that I could use a CIPIC HRTF but I did not 
find
an easy way to select one that had any chance to be a a good fit for me.

In my naivity I hoped for at least skull diameter and som pictures of 
ear shape.

But maybe it is much harder than that.

Bo-Erik / Bosse

Providing actual ear picture with the database was rare in the past, and with 
privacy laws even more rare more recently as it could likely be used to 
identify the individual if desired. 

For a selection approach, you are probably better off anyway selecting via a 
listening test, as the best choice from morphology is still a "work in 
progress" in the field. 

You could try, for example, the HRTF subset provided with the anaglyph plug-in 
(http://anaglyph.dalembert.upmc.fr/), which comes from the LISTEN database and 
were selected/optimized in an attempt to satisfy the largest population with 
the smallest dataset (see https://doi.org/10.1121/1.3672641 for details).  Via 
anaglyph, you can also customize head-size (circumference) independently from 
the pinna spectral cues. 

Best regards,
-Brian
--
Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS
Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique – Musique
Sorbonne Université, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond ∂'Alembert 
http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz





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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

As a amateur I had a idea that I could use a CIPIC HRTF but I did not find
an easy way to select one that had any chance to be a a good fit for me.

In my naivity I hoped for at least skull diameter and som pictures of ear
shape.

But maybe it is much harder than that.

Bo-Erik / Bosse

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022, 23:24 Sampo Syreeni,  wrote:

> On 2022-07-14, Braxton Boren wrote:
>
> > Also, a reminder that the CIPIC HRTFs are all available (in SOFA
> > format) on the SOFA Conventions website:
> >
> > https://www.sofaconventions.org/mediawiki/index.php/Files
>
> For once something beyond the age old KEMAR thingies. Thank you.
> Profusely!
> --
> Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
> +358-40-3751464 , 025E D175
> ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[Sampo Syreeni]

On 2022-07-14, Braxton Boren wrote:

Also, a reminder that the CIPIC HRTFs are all available (in SOFA 
format) on the SOFA Conventions website:


https://www.sofaconventions.org/mediawiki/index.php/Files


For once something beyond the age old KEMAR thingies. Thank you. 
Profusely!

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-40-3751464, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[Braxton Boren]

Also, a reminder that the CIPIC HRTFs are all available (in SOFA format) on
the SOFA Conventions website:

https://www.sofaconventions.org/mediawiki/index.php/Files

--Braxton


Braxton Boren
Assistant Professor, Audio Technology
American University
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Joseph Anderson]

Thanks Marc.

It looks like all the pages that were previously hosted at
https://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/cipic have now been removed. Attempting to
access any of these pages now returns:

This site is no longer available.




My best,
Jo


*Dr Joseph Anderson | Research Scientist*

DXARTS, Box 353414

University of Washington

Seattle, WA 98195-3680



http://www.dxarts.washington.edu


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On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 5:56 PM Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> Le 2022-07-12 à 19 h 44, Joseph Anderson a écrit :
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Does anyone know the status of the online listing of the CIPIC HRTF
> > Database?
> >
> > The link below doesn't appear to be active.
> >
> > "The CIPIC HRTF Database - CIPIC International Laboratory." [Online].
> > Available:http://interface.cipic.ucdavis.edu/sound/hrtf.html.
>
> The link seems offline, but its latest snapshot on archive.org is from
> 2017 and contains the HRTF datasets:
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20170916053150/interface.cipic.ucdavis.edu/sound/hrtf.html
>
> > Thanks in advance!
>
> I hope it helps.
>
> Marc
>
> >
> >
> > My best,
> >
> >
> > *Dr Joseph Anderson | Research Scientist*
> >
> > DXARTS, Box 353414
> >
> > University of Washington
> >
> > Seattle, WA 98195-3680
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.dxarts.washington.edu
> >
> >
> > Subscribe to our events list
> > to receive email updates about lectures, performances, exhibitions and
> more.
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[Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Joseph Anderson]

Hello All,

Does anyone know the status of the online listing of the CIPIC HRTF
Database?

The link below doesn't appear to be active.

"The CIPIC HRTF Database - CIPIC International Laboratory." [Online].
Available: http://interface.cipic.ucdavis.edu/sound/hrtf.html.



Thanks in advance!


My best,


*Dr Joseph Anderson | Research Scientist*

DXARTS, Box 353414

University of Washington

Seattle, WA 98195-3680



http://www.dxarts.washington.edu


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