date:20030108


How come the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy doesn't 
seem to know about diesels and biodiesel?

:-(



http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2003/01/01082003/s_49253.asp

Auto fleet owners need incentives to go green

Wednesday, January 08, 2003

GreenBiz.com

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Fleets can play an important role in introducing 
more fuel-efficient vehicles into the U.S. passenger vehicle stock. 
But governments and businesses that purchase large numbers of cars 
need some encouragement to do so, according to a new study by the 
American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy. Greener Fleets: 
Fuel Economy Progress and Prospects finds that few fleets have 
attempted to maximize the fuel economy of their vehicles to date.

Fuel costs are important to fleets, and choosing fuel-efficient 
vehicles can bring those costs down. Cars and trucks with high fuel 
economies are available right now, but unfortunately, there are 
obstacles to fleets' buying them, said Therese Langer, report 
co-author and ACEEE's transportation program director. The structure 
of manufacturer discounts, lack of federal guidance, and vehicle 
leasing agreements all work against purchase of the fuel economy 
leaders.

Fleets are influential due to the sheer number of vehicles that they 
buy as well as their role as laboratory and showcase for new 
approaches to the selection and use of automobiles. While attempts to 
use fleets to popularize alternative fuel vehicles have been somewhat 
disappointing, fleets' use of fuel-efficient vehicles could catch on 
more easily with the general public.

The report finds that local governments have taken the lead thus far 
in setting fleet fuel economy policies, and that business fleets 
represent a large untapped potential for efficiency. Changes in basic 
fleet practices and interactions will be needed to move forward, 
however. Fleets need to coordinate vehicle purchase and fuel 
management functions, noted Daniel Williams, co-author and ACEEE's 
transportation program assistant. But to really make a difference, 
fleets will have to work together and tell manufacturers that the 
perennial fleet favorites, from the Stratus to the Explorer, must get 
more miles per gallon.

Hybrids are appealing to fleets that want to be green, but their 
higher cost and the fact that they don't currently bring credits 
towards meeting alternative fuel vehicle requirements make 
large-scale purchase difficult for the government and fuel provider 
fleets subject to mandates. The report recommends steps to promote 
acquisition of advanced technology vehicles, but also emphasizes the 
fuel savings that fleets could achieve by choosing the most 
fuel-efficient conventional vehicle that can do the job.

Copyright 2003, GreenBiz.com
All Rights Reserved



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[biofuels-biz] GM considering diesels for N. American SUVs


http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19322/story.htm

AUTOSHOW -
GM considering diesels for N. American SUVs

USA: January 8, 2003

DETROIT - General Motors Corp. (GM.N) is considering offering diesel 
engines on its sport utility vehicles sold in North America to help 
boost fuel economy, a top company official said.

GM is expanding capacity for its diesel engines on its full-size 
pickup trucks sold in North America, and could also offer them on 
their large sport utility vehicles to consumers wishing to save money 
on fuel, said Gary Cowger, head of GM's North American operations.

But U.S. clean air laws could prevent their widespread use in 
passenger cars unless the laws are rewritten, he said.

Diesels in cars here, because of the way pollution and the ways the 
laws are written... diesels are not appropriate unless we get some 
rule changes. They are in trucks, Cowger said.

More fuel efficient diesel engines have taken off in Europe, and now 
represent around 40 percent of all new vehicle sales. Diesels achieve 
higher fuel economy but also emit more pollutants.

But many in the auto industry are skeptical that Americans, who 
remember the sputtering and smelly diesel engines of the past, will 
want cars with diesel engines. Relatively cheap gasoline in the 
United States offsets the added costs of diesel engines, officials 
have said.

However, John Smith, GM's head of vehicle sales, service and 
marketing in North America, said that he thinks that the regulatory 
opposition to diesel engines is changing.

I sense that the door is swinging open on the regulatory front to 
more diesels, he told Reuters in an interview. I've always thought 
that there was a big opportunity in this market for diesels. Today's 
diesels are very elegant, high performance machines.

An alternative to diesels could be hybrid gasoline-electric vehicles, 
which save fuel by using batteries. GM announced plans this week to 
offer hybrid gas-electric motors as an option on at least seven 
vehicles by 2007, which combined with new technologies, could boost 
fuel economy from 15 to 50 percent.

Story by Michael Ellis

REUTERS NEWS SERVICE


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[biofuels-biz] Smoke to get in Manila eyes, at least for a while


http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19323/story.htm

Smoke to get in Manila eyes, at least for a while

PHILIPPINES: January 8, 2003

MANILA - Smoggy skies over the Philippine capital will take a little 
longer to clear after motorcycle taxi drivers won a reprieve this 
week from the Clean Air Act that came into force at the start of the 
year.

Hundreds of drivers brought traffic to an even slower crawl than 
usual in parts of Manila as they took their vehicles in a procession 
to the presidential palace to protest against the new anti-pollution 
law.

The Clean Air Act calls for emission tests and the phasing out of 
two-stroke engines.

Under the law, which also calls for fewer additives in gasoline and 
other measures to cut the haze hanging over the nation's largest 
cities, drivers of Manila's 120,000 motorcycle taxis must use cleaner 
but more expensive four-stroke engines.

The government, allowing drivers more time to comply, said it would 
set up a committee of transportation officials, motorcycle taxi 
operators, manufacturers and non-governmental organisations to 
discuss the issues.

I believe the government will fulfill its end of the bargain, Ariel 
Lim, president of the National Confederation of Tricycle Operators 
and Drivers Associations, told reporters. If it fails, we may hold 
another protest and it cannot blame us.

The drivers and operators may have won the day but the country of 80 
million people has been losing the battle against smog and its ill 
effects on health.

In November, the World Bank warned that air pollution would cost the 
Philippines almost $1.5 billion per year in medical treatment, lost 
wages and low productivity.

A study by the World Bank showed fine particle emissions caused an 
estimated 2,000 premature deaths and 9,000 cases of chronic 
bronchitis each year in the nation's four largest cities.

REUTERS NEWS SERVICE


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[biofuels-biz] Automakers Face Fuel-Efficiency Test


http://hoovnews.hoovers.com/fp.asp?layout=displaynewsdoc_id=NR2003010 
71180.3_077c004b82fab681
Hoover's Online
Automakers Face Fuel-Efficiency Test

January 6, 2003 8:07pm

Jan. 5--DETROIT--The nation's best-selling automobile, the Ford 
F-series pickup truck, goes about 16 to 18 miles on a gallon of 
gasoline.

Now federal regulators have a new mandate in the works that would 
require a 7 percent average gain in fuel economy beginning in 2005 
for all pickups, vans, minivans and sport-utility vehicles made that 
year.

The tighter standard, expected to save 2.5 billion gallons of gas a 
year, would be the first large upgrade in truck mileage since pickups 
and sport-utilities surged in popularity in the mid-1980s.

While environmental advocates contend a 7 percent increase in fuel 
economy is easily reached and ought to be set higher, auto executives 
insist they can't make those gains in full-size trucks in a few years 
at a price most consumers would consider affordable.

With the rule set to phase in during 2005 and reach the 7 percent 
goal in 2007, the automakers are considering other ways to satisfy 
the rule without having to resort to a wholesale redesign of their 
V-8 and V-6 engine programs.

This regulation will not be easy for the industry as a whole to 
meet, said Jim Olson, a public affairs official in New York for 
Toyota Motor Corp.

If you look at a regulation, it has to be planned for median 
companies and not the leaders in truck sales, Olson said. This 
regulation will be easier for us and Honda to meet.

As a result, Detroit automakers will tweak V-8 powertrains, install 
fuel-saving components and promote diesels.

A good share of their effort, though, will be devoted to moving 
buyers into fuel-efficient cars designed to look like sport-utes, 
industry analysts say.

Because the proposal doesn't single out full-size pickups and 
sport-utes, auto companies can satisfy the rule by upgrading the 
mileage of smaller trucks and achieving an average 7 percent gain 
across all of their truck lines. A car built to look like a truck can 
be classified as a truck for fuel-economy purposes.

But executives at the truck-producing companies are still concerned. 
The new federal rule would require an auto company's trucks made in 
2007 to average 22.2 miles per gallon.

In reports filed with federal regulators, the Detroit automakers 
estimated average fuel economy for their particular truck fleets 
using available technology.

General Motors Corp. projected its 2007 trucks would average 19.1 mpg 
to 20.8 mpg. Ford Motor Co. projected 22 mpg and Chrysler Group 
projected 22.2 mpg.

If they don't satisfy the rule by selling enough fuel-efficient 
smaller models, production might have to be scaled back on the big 
pickups and sport-utilities, which provide the bulk of Detroit's vast 
profits.

It's a fairly significant challenge for us to meet the new rule, 
said Stuart Schorr, Chrysler spokesman in Washington.

Not meeting the fuel-economy standard also would result in penalties 
owed to the government along with the possibility of negative 
publicity.

Among the 15 automakers selling in the United States, the Detroit 
companies appear most vulnerable because their profits are 
concentrated in the larger pickups and sport-utes.

The wild card is customer choice, said Mike Morrissey, General 
Motors spokesman in Washington. If customers continue to choose 
full-size pickup trucks and sport-utility vehicles, it will make it 
increasingly hard to meet the standard.

Trucks account for half the new autos sold today, and the Detroit 
automakers along with Toyota Motor Co. make three of every four 
trucks.

Ford's full-size models account for about 53 percent of its truck 
business, while GM's full-size lines represent half of its truck 
volume.

Chrysler's Dodge Ram is its only full-size model, though the pickup 
is the company's single best seller and accounts for almost a quarter 
of Chrysler's truck business.

Toyota's full-size Tundra and Sequoia, built in Indiana, represent 
about a fifth of its truck volume.

As we shift the mix toward the larger vehicles, which we are doing 
little by little, meeting the fuel economy standard becomes more of a 
challenge, said Toyota's Olson. But we will meet the standard.

Auto companies say they will add fuel-saving components to V-6 and 
V-8 powertrains, and promote diesels and hybrid engines in midsize 
vehicles. Hybrids use a big electric motor backed by a small 
conventional engine.

Just as important, they will bring out more fuel-efficient cars 
designed to look like midsize sport-utilities. These so-called 
crossovers will be classed as trucks.

One such model already on the road, the 20- to 25-mpg Chrysler PT 
Cruiser, is made from car parts.

GM already has ushered in the crossover Saturn Vue sport-utility, and 
Ford has the Escape crossover and is bringing out another crossover 
built from the Taurus sedan.

Auto executives have faced the mileage

Re: [biofuel] Vegetable Oil Based Bio Fuel Choices

2003-01-08 Thread NeilUSA


At 13:27 Wednesday, you wrote:
NeilUSA wrote:
 and now it is a time to work
 out an idiot-proof design.  So every report of problems means those
 hearing it (yea for the internet and mail lists) can factor it into design
 revisions.  It should also be noted that we have no complete data base,
 or really ANY data base, of all those vehicles currently running on
 biodiesel, SVO, WVO, or hybrid mixes involving one or more of these.

There are two databases, one at a German site that now has a lot of
material, and another more recently started by Darren and Paddy (both
list members here):

The new database for vehicles running on SVO (andWVO) has now clocked up
it's first million miles: Total number of veg miles in database= 1,020,100.
There are 49 vehicles listed, with different permutations of fuel system.
The most common is VW and then Mercedes. Information is accessable, for free
and in English, about how these vehicles have faired with SVO. Many thanks
to those who have contributed. Thanks also to Darren and Stephan. Please
register your own vehicle details if you have not done so already 
Paddy. http://www.goatindustries.co.uk/fuelsdatabase/ 

Thank you THANK YOU thank you  Hurray!  I immediately pulled 
them up and further reveled in the wonderful resource we have of an 
internet AND of mail list like this one.  In my searches, I did not come 
across any such data base and would suggest this list manager consider 
adding it to the signature area for data bases like this are CRITICAL to 
success of biofuel users.  I would hope the same existed for those in all 
the other biofuel areas since SVO and WVO is not the whole world though 
certainly a major focus since we all can/do use diesel engine driven 
powerplants.

One mistake I think you're making is that you assume some sort of
centralized something-or-other (as with air crashes perhaps) where
all results, events and relevant information will be received,
processed and disseminated, with recommendations and rulings. Various
such centralized approaches to biofuels are regularly proposed, and
strenuously resisted, for various good reasons. It's much more of a
free-for-all.

I revel in the open libertarian market place while also note that 
advisory activities are quite different than regulatory ones.  I am a 
firm believer in the Rule of Law and persuation over force and find 
that most folks (especially Americans) have no clue of the actual 
law.  Most Ameicans flail in frustration not realizing there is resolution 
in education and the written law.  I have many who come to me (had another 
today) to remove the miseducation so as to proceed productively within the 
existing (though typically ignored) frame work of published law.  A data 
base is advisory and not regulatory while providing actual testiment 
of the success and failures of those utilizing alternative energy 
sources.  Please put your fears aside and help us all by keeping such data 
bases full of current actual empiracal information.  Not only do we need 
to know what works but also what is not working.  This is a community, no???



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Re: [biofuel] Batteries ... the power to time converter

2003-01-08 Thread georgemurray1


In a message dated 08/01/03 00:54:25 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

 In the summer, the average use 24/7 is estimated around 2-3KW out of an 
 8KW genset.  The hot tub heater is 6KW alone, then add water heater, oven, 
 clothes dryer, AND various 120AC loads and the 8KW is overwhelmed.  But all 
 these loads do not run 24/7.  

If you like the 240 diesel so much why not dismantle 3 cylinders, modify the 
remaing bits and run it as a single cylinder. you will have plenty of spares!
better still buy a small single cylinder industrial engine running at 
1500/1800rpm


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Re: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] GM rethinks hydrogen fuel cells

2003-01-08 Thread MH


 So the PEM fuel cells range from 81% or 50% or 36 - 40 % at full load. 

 Any of you EV or H2 folks familiar with --


 Safe Hydrogen Storage Solution May Enable
 Earlier Shift to Fuel-Cell Powered Autos

 Safe Hydrogen storage technology provides hydrogen to a car with a fuel 
 tank only about eight percent larger than the average gasoline tank.
 Source: Business Wire [Aug 09, 2002]
 http://www.evworld.com/databases/shownews.cfm?pageid=news090802-03  

 BOSTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 8, 2002--Safe Hydrogen, LLC in the Boston 
 area believes it has solved the critical hydrogen storage problem, long 
 considered a significant roadblock to utilizing hydrogen powered fuel 
 cells. The chief technology officer of the new firm, Andy McClaine, 
 managed a three year, $3 million dollar development project funded by 
 the Department of Energy and is building the new company based on 
 storage technology developed in that project.

 Safe Hydrogen uses a slurry - a liquid mix not unlike thick paint - that 
 both stores and generates 99.999 percent pure hydrogen on demand by the 
 addition of water. This is achieved by a very simple and low cost mixing 
 system using any available water. Additionally, the Safe Hydrogen slurry 
 provides the handling and safety benefits of a non-explosive and 
 non-flammable storage format.

 According to Sig Tullmann, CEO of the start-up, this new technology 
 provides benefits to both future and current hydrogen users. It saves 
 storage and transportation cost and, especially in our new security 
 conscious world, saves security risks and costs by providing a 
 non-explosive and non-flammable stored hydrogen, he says. He estimates 
 the cost of hydrogen to the consumer, if this technology were rolled out 
 on a large scale, would be about 40 percent less than what Europeans are 
 paying today to power their vehicles with gasoline refined from Middle 
 East oil.

 According to McClaine, hydrogen is easily generated from plentiful raw 
 materials and provides pollution-free energy but is notoriously 
 difficult to store. Only one percent of the weight of a standard bottle 
 of compressed hydrogen (the normal packaging of the product) is actual 
 hydrogen. Currently, It takes an unwieldy 12 bottles of hydrogen to 
 operate a car with a reasonably efficient fuel cell, says McClaine.

 Safe Hydrogen storage technology provides hydrogen to a car with a fuel 
 tank only about eight percent larger than the average gasoline tank. Or 
 in general terms, according to McClaine, Safe Hydrogen technology stores 
 hydrogen ten times more compact than compressed and twice as compact as 
 liquefied hydrogen. Today, compressed hydrogen and liquid hydrogen are 
 the two most common way of storing and transporting hydrogen. An 
 important plus is that both the loaded and depleted slurry are pumpable 
 and easily adapted to fit into the existing gas station support 
 structure. No special pressures or temperatures are required.

 While the widespread use of the Safe Hydrogen storage process in 
 automobiles will take some time, the technology can play a more 
 immediate role in power back up, remote power, and marine power 
 applications, according to Tullmann.

 Safe Hydrogen is in the process of seeking additional capital and
 can be contacted via its web site http://www.safehydrogen.com   

 ___

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Window quilts -- was Re: [biofuel] strawbale design was Re: biodiesel vs. propanefor heating

2003-01-08 Thread MH


 mark wrote:
 
  Window quilts are an overlooked aspect of insulation- I knew someone who 
 made them with Mylar inside, and it improved their efficiency at keeping 
 heat in or out...

 And Hakan mentioned outside covers for the windows that reminded me
 of twenty or thirty years ago when I meant toso a couple years ago
 I replaced my window blinds and curtains with 2 thick (R-10) high
 density polystyrene 4'x8' foam panels cut to fit inside
 window frames painted with white latex paint to reflect light
 as the story goes on.   Bottom line it really helps reduce
 heating/cooling costs and labor (cutting and hauling wood).   
 __

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Re: [biofuel] Was-Vegetable Oil Based Bio Fuel Choices-Fuel Injectors

2003-01-08 Thread georgemurray1


In a message dated 08/01/03 00:59:19 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

 Elsbett kits get around this by changing the injector sleeves and 
 needle to
 give a wider spray pattern, I believe  

Why would you require a different spray pattern after massive development of 
an optimum system by a manufacturer. To gain what - better fuel consumption, 
better emissions, lower peak temperatures, or whatever?


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Re: [biofuel] Marinated Salmon recipe

2003-01-08 Thread georgemurray1


In a message dated 08/01/03 00:57:42 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

 Why are there so many postings on food? 
hear, hear


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CFL bulbs -- was Re: Window quilts -- was Re: [biofuel] strawbale design was Re: biodiesel vs. propanefor heating

2003-01-08 Thread MH


 And then there's the Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs
 that really helped reduce electric utility expenditures
 and their much cheaper now then they were 6 yrs ago.  

__

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Re: [biofuel] Striking a Balance in the Forest

2003-01-08 Thread jhyde16833


 

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[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 01/08/03

2003-01-08 Thread EREN


=
EREN NETWORK NEWS -- January 8, 2003
A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE)
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN).
http://www.eren.doe.gov/
=

Featuring:
*News and Events
   GM to Launch Hybrid Versions of Seven Vehicle Models by 2007
   Ford Unveils Model U, a Hydrogen-Fueled Hybrid Vehicle
   Ford Agrees to Sell Think Nordic to Kamkorp Microelectronics
   North America to Unify Energy Efficiency Standards in 2003
   Fifty-Megawatt Solar Thermal Power Plant Planned for Nevada
   New Mexico Adopts Minimum Renewable Energy Requirements
   U.K. Company Reports Successful Tidal Energy Production

*Site News
   Southwest Energy Efficiency Project (SWEEP)

*Energy Facts and Tips
   U.S. Greenhouse Gas Emissions Drop 1.2 Percent in 2001

*About this Newsletter


--
NEWS AND EVENTS
--
GM to Launch Hybrid Versions of Seven Vehicle Models by 2007

General Motors Corporation (GM) announced on Monday that it will
offer hybrid electric versions of at least seven vehicle models
within the next five years and could sell as many as a million
hybrid vehicles per year by 2007. GM will offer three types of
hybrid electric configurations in up to a dozen vehicle models.

As announced in 2001, GM is planning to introduce hybrid versions of
its GMC Sierra and Chevrolet Silverado by combining a 14-kilowatt
motor with a V8 engine and using a 42-volt lead-acid battery pack
for energy storage. A so-called mild hybrid system, the motor will
provide supplemental power to the engine when needed, but the engine
will always run. GM expects a 10 to 12 percent increase in fuel
economy in the pickups, which will be available later this year.
In 2007, GM will offer the same system for its Chevrolet Tahoe and
GMC Yukon sport utility vehicles (SUVs), combined with a
displacement on demand feature that will shut down some engine
cylinders when they are not needed. That feature will add another
5 to 8 percent increase in fuel efficiency, according to GM. For
more information, see the May 2001 GM announcements at:
http://www.gm.com/cgi-bin/pr_display.pl?2265 and
http://www.gm.com/cgi-bin/pr_display.pl?2263.

In late 2005, GM plans to introduce a hybrid version of its Saturn
VUE, a smaller SUV that runs on a 4- or 6-cylinder engine. The
hybrid electric model will add twin 20-kilowatt electric motors and
will operate as a strong hybrid: At low speeds, the vehicle will
run on batteries alone. GM expects to achieve 50 percent gains in
fuel economy while improving the vehicle's performance.

Starting in 2006, GM will begin selling its third hybrid system,
which combines a belt-driven starter/alternator with a 2.4-liter
engine and a 42-volt battery. Available on the upcoming Chevrolet
Equinox SUV in 2006, the system will be applied to the Chevrolet
Malibu sedan in 2007. GM expects to offer the system for both 4- and
6-cylinder engines, achieving an estimated 12 to 15 percent
improvement in fuel economy.

GM made the announcement at the 2003 North American International
Auto Show, now underway in Detroit. See the video of the GM
announcement at: http://webevents.broadcast.com/gm/atpv2003.

Meanwhile, Ford Motor Company is planning to begin producing a
hybrid version of the Ford Escape SUV later this year. Ford will
offer the hybrid Escape to commercial fleets this year, then offer
it to consumers in mid-2004. See the Ford Hybrid Electric Vehicle
Web site at: http://www.hybridford.com/faq/index.asp.


Ford Unveils Model U, a Hydrogen-Fueled Hybrid Vehicle

Ford Motor Company unveiled a new hydrogen-fueled concept vehicle on
Sunday, but unlike most recent prototypes, this vehicle uses an
internal combustion engine rather than a fuel cell. Ford's Model U
concept car uses a supercharged engine to achieve a performance
similar to a gasoline-fueled engine while using about 25 percent
less energy. The engine also produces very low emissions, consisting
mainly of water vapor and low levels of nitrous oxides.

The hydrogen engine is combined with a 35-kilowatt electric motor in
a strong hybrid configuration, which allows the vehicle to run on
electric power only at low speeds. In addition, Ford used a number
of green materials in the car's construction, including Cargill
Dow's corn-based polylactide for the canvas roof and carpet mats,
and soy-based foams and plastics for the seats and tailgate.

The Model U, intentionally named to invoke Ford's Model T, was
unveiled during the 2003 North American International Auto Show.
Ford produced the Model U and two other concept cars as part of the
company's centennial celebration. See the Ford press release at:
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=14047.


Ford

Re: [biofuel] Re: Bumper Mentality

2003-01-08 Thread malcolm.scott

You might be the one with a good reason to use one. What do you think about
the downsides noted in the article? You might not always be pro SUV. People
can change, if slowly.

- Original Message -
From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:44 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Bumper Mentality

 Damn!  Look at the news report.  Millions of Americans and their SUV!!

 I love SUV's ... always have ... always will.  Always will be pro-SUV.

 But, by the same token ... I've always been a courteous driver.Always
 conscientious.  Always caring.   EVEN A COURTEOUS SUV DRIVER.

 What am I ... some kind of freak??   Some one-of-a-kind oddball??   Am I a
 OXYMORON??  courteous SUV driver??

 Sheesh!!

 Curtis

 Get your free newsletter at
 http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL

 - Original Message -
 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14839

 Bumper Mentality

 By Stephanie Mencimer, Washington Monthly
 December 20, 2002

 Have you ever wondered why sport utility vehicle drivers seem like
 such assholes? Surely it's no coincidence that Terry McAuliffe,

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Re: [biofuel] cost of PEX tubing for heating

2003-01-08 Thread greg

and some of the houses only last 150 years
- Original Message -
From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 8:30 PM
Subject: [biofuel] cost of PEX tubing for heating

 Any idea of costs on this material for this application (I unfortunately
 don't have the square footage of the building in front of me)?
 Mark

 At 05:46 PM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote:
 Mark:

 I'm designing a straw bale house to retire into (as I've probly
 mentioned), and one
 of the things I've heard is that a system of PEX tubing in the floor
 (concrete, adobe,
 whatever) is NEVER a bad investment.

 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [biofuel] Marinated Salmon recipe

2003-01-08 Thread greg

okok where is the recipe?
- Original Message -
From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Marinated Salmon recipe

 Keith writes:

 As for postings on food, the two subjects aren't really separable, on
 several different counts.

 For example, I have so many different types of oil (SVO and WVO)
 in my garage right now, I have to taste 'em to tell 'em apart --
 h, is this coconut, olive, sesame, corn, (all yu), or
 is it the stuff from the fish place? (yukkk). And if I happen to need
 some dressing for my salad, which one should I use? :-) -K

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Re: [biofuel] Batteries ... the power to time converter

2003-01-08 Thread malcolm.scott

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Batteries ... the power to time converter

 I realize that many people like to maximize everything.  Only trouble is
 that one gets 80% return on the first 20% of effort.  I have a brother who
 spends his time trying to make things perfect with the result that he
 accomplishes very little.  Heck, I am taking waste being sent to the
 landfill or our food chain and putting it to a better use to provide for
my
 energy needs on a homestead.  I plan to get diesel vehicles and use WVO
 there too.  If I were a general contractor building a whole subdivision of
 homes or a 100 unit hotel/apartment building, all sorts of such tinkering
 would be appropriate.  But, I am the average home owner looking to cut
 costs, be envirionmentally friendly, and enjoy living.  I will leave it to
 my brother to optimize in obscurity a single isolated house in a world of
a
 few trillion homes while I only make mine a bit better and then have the
 time to go for a hike.

I'd just like to add that I think it would be a shame to install batteries
when you have a grid connection to use as your buffer.  I assume you have
net metering up to the value of the electricity you take. You can just run
your genny at it's most efficient output during peak hours to balance your
consumption, and the waste heat is a bonus.  If it works OK, maybe you can
persuade your neibours to do the same to make best use of the waste oil.

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Re: [biofuel] Some choice Was: The Future of Fuel-Efficient Cars / The Thirst for Oil

2003-01-08 Thread malcolm.scott


Yes of course they are choices, and ones that people are making all the
time. There are probably many reasons for the increasing commuting mileage,
but two are:
People find higher paid jobs further away and don't want to move.
People find lower cost housing further away and don't want to change jobs.
Not only is the mileage per person increasing but the fuel consumption per
vehicle is also. These things are encouraged by the very low cost of fuel.

- Original Message -
From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:45 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Some choice Was: The Future of Fuel-Efficient Cars / The
Thirst for Oil


 h..

 Live close  eaten alive with taxes.

 Live far  less taxes ... but (assuming oil price rise) eaten alive
with
 fuel costs.

 Are those choices??  Especially with (effective ... buying power-wise)
 wages falling low??

 Curtis

 Get your free newsletter at
 http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL


 - Original Message -
 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  I agree, but this will not happen when people believe, rightly or
wrongly
  that heavy cars are safer.  Also it would be just as much help if people
  stopped moving further away from work (unless they telework or travel by
  train) and taking jobs that require longer commuting drives. Cheap fuel
  encourages this behaviour.
  Malcolm

 You bring up intelligent points, but the issues aren't always so clear
cut.

 In our case the decision to move far away from work had less to do with
 cheap fuel than cheap land.  We simply couldn't afford to live close to
 where I work, as the properties there were running better than $50 000
more
 expensive than the lot we bought.  Even if fuel was twice the price, I
could
 buy a LOT of it for the difference.  (Trust me, we agonized over this
 decision!)

 Here's how the math works...


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Re: [biofuel] add co gen/propane

2003-01-08 Thread JOSEPH . MARTELLE







Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc:
Subject:LongEZ


  I am building an foam/fiberglass airplane
(LongEz) which likes temperatures in the 70F+ range while the Oregon
coastline runs from 30 to 70F on average.

Neil, gonna put a diesel in it? Run it on Biodiesel? Thielert makes a nice
powerful 4 cyl diesel that is a direct replacement for a Lycoming or
Continental. Nice, but pricey. www.thielert.com.
Cheers, Joe.











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[biofuel] Is vegetable oil or sugar food? was: Marinated Salmon recipe



I am sorry if I offended some list members with the recipe of Gravad Lax, 
it was really off topic, but maybe someone who tries it will forgive me.

I did not realized that it was list members that did not know that the most 
common applications for Biofuels are to find in the human food chain. I did 
not even know that agriculture or forest management could be off-topic for 
some Biofuel producers. I also did not now that energy politics have no 
bearing or influence on Biofuel for some of the people that deals with it. 
I did not know that I did not need to know how to delete email for using 
Internet. I did not know that an ability to read also means that you have 
to read everything that comes in your way, for me it is an impossible task 
in today's societies, but I am only a human.

I do know and hear about people that like to dictate the rules for others. 
What they do, how they live, what they talk about and if possible what they 
think about. It is many well known theories and long standing practical 
research on how to achieve this, but it seems that none of them work in the 
long run, even the extreme ones.

It is however an interesting thought, take away any references to food and 
agriculture from the discussions. Then I think that we have to change this 
list to a fossil fuel list. As it is, it is one of the most active and 
interesting discussion lists I have seen, with a lot of very knowledgeable 
and interesting people participating. I am sure that many envies the 
results that Keith have achieved with this list, which I belive is due to a 
large understanding and respect for people.

Hakan


At 02:35 AM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
In a message dated 08/01/03 00:57:42 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 Why are there so many postings on food? 
hear, hear



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[biofuel] Auto fleet owners need incentives to go green


How come the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy doesn't 
seem to know about diesels and biodiesel?

:-(



http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2003/01/01082003/s_49253.asp

Auto fleet owners need incentives to go green

Wednesday, January 08, 2003

GreenBiz.com

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Fleets can play an important role in introducing 
more fuel-efficient vehicles into the U.S. passenger vehicle stock. 
But governments and businesses that purchase large numbers of cars 
need some encouragement to do so, according to a new study by the 
American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy. Greener Fleets: 
Fuel Economy Progress and Prospects finds that few fleets have 
attempted to maximize the fuel economy of their vehicles to date.

Fuel costs are important to fleets, and choosing fuel-efficient 
vehicles can bring those costs down. Cars and trucks with high fuel 
economies are available right now, but unfortunately, there are 
obstacles to fleets' buying them, said Therese Langer, report 
co-author and ACEEE's transportation program director. The structure 
of manufacturer discounts, lack of federal guidance, and vehicle 
leasing agreements all work against purchase of the fuel economy 
leaders.

Fleets are influential due to the sheer number of vehicles that they 
buy as well as their role as laboratory and showcase for new 
approaches to the selection and use of automobiles. While attempts to 
use fleets to popularize alternative fuel vehicles have been somewhat 
disappointing, fleets' use of fuel-efficient vehicles could catch on 
more easily with the general public.

The report finds that local governments have taken the lead thus far 
in setting fleet fuel economy policies, and that business fleets 
represent a large untapped potential for efficiency. Changes in basic 
fleet practices and interactions will be needed to move forward, 
however. Fleets need to coordinate vehicle purchase and fuel 
management functions, noted Daniel Williams, co-author and ACEEE's 
transportation program assistant. But to really make a difference, 
fleets will have to work together and tell manufacturers that the 
perennial fleet favorites, from the Stratus to the Explorer, must get 
more miles per gallon.

Hybrids are appealing to fleets that want to be green, but their 
higher cost and the fact that they don't currently bring credits 
towards meeting alternative fuel vehicle requirements make 
large-scale purchase difficult for the government and fuel provider 
fleets subject to mandates. The report recommends steps to promote 
acquisition of advanced technology vehicles, but also emphasizes the 
fuel savings that fleets could achieve by choosing the most 
fuel-efficient conventional vehicle that can do the job.

Copyright 2003, GreenBiz.com
All Rights Reserved



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[biofuel] GM considering diesels for N. American SUVs


http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19322/story.htm

AUTOSHOW -
GM considering diesels for N. American SUVs

USA: January 8, 2003

DETROIT - General Motors Corp. (GM.N) is considering offering diesel 
engines on its sport utility vehicles sold in North America to help 
boost fuel economy, a top company official said.

GM is expanding capacity for its diesel engines on its full-size 
pickup trucks sold in North America, and could also offer them on 
their large sport utility vehicles to consumers wishing to save money 
on fuel, said Gary Cowger, head of GM's North American operations.

But U.S. clean air laws could prevent their widespread use in 
passenger cars unless the laws are rewritten, he said.

Diesels in cars here, because of the way pollution and the ways the 
laws are written... diesels are not appropriate unless we get some 
rule changes. They are in trucks, Cowger said.

More fuel efficient diesel engines have taken off in Europe, and now 
represent around 40 percent of all new vehicle sales. Diesels achieve 
higher fuel economy but also emit more pollutants.

But many in the auto industry are skeptical that Americans, who 
remember the sputtering and smelly diesel engines of the past, will 
want cars with diesel engines. Relatively cheap gasoline in the 
United States offsets the added costs of diesel engines, officials 
have said.

However, John Smith, GM's head of vehicle sales, service and 
marketing in North America, said that he thinks that the regulatory 
opposition to diesel engines is changing.

I sense that the door is swinging open on the regulatory front to 
more diesels, he told Reuters in an interview. I've always thought 
that there was a big opportunity in this market for diesels. Today's 
diesels are very elegant, high performance machines.

An alternative to diesels could be hybrid gasoline-electric vehicles, 
which save fuel by using batteries. GM announced plans this week to 
offer hybrid gas-electric motors as an option on at least seven 
vehicles by 2007, which combined with new technologies, could boost 
fuel economy from 15 to 50 percent.

Story by Michael Ellis

REUTERS NEWS SERVICE


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[biofuel] Smoke to get in Manila eyes, at least for a while


http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19323/story.htm

Smoke to get in Manila eyes, at least for a while

PHILIPPINES: January 8, 2003

MANILA - Smoggy skies over the Philippine capital will take a little 
longer to clear after motorcycle taxi drivers won a reprieve this 
week from the Clean Air Act that came into force at the start of the 
year.

Hundreds of drivers brought traffic to an even slower crawl than 
usual in parts of Manila as they took their vehicles in a procession 
to the presidential palace to protest against the new anti-pollution 
law.

The Clean Air Act calls for emission tests and the phasing out of 
two-stroke engines.

Under the law, which also calls for fewer additives in gasoline and 
other measures to cut the haze hanging over the nation's largest 
cities, drivers of Manila's 120,000 motorcycle taxis must use cleaner 
but more expensive four-stroke engines.

The government, allowing drivers more time to comply, said it would 
set up a committee of transportation officials, motorcycle taxi 
operators, manufacturers and non-governmental organisations to 
discuss the issues.

I believe the government will fulfill its end of the bargain, Ariel 
Lim, president of the National Confederation of Tricycle Operators 
and Drivers Associations, told reporters. If it fails, we may hold 
another protest and it cannot blame us.

The drivers and operators may have won the day but the country of 80 
million people has been losing the battle against smog and its ill 
effects on health.

In November, the World Bank warned that air pollution would cost the 
Philippines almost $1.5 billion per year in medical treatment, lost 
wages and low productivity.

A study by the World Bank showed fine particle emissions caused an 
estimated 2,000 premature deaths and 9,000 cases of chronic 
bronchitis each year in the nation's four largest cities.

REUTERS NEWS SERVICE


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[biofuel] Biodiesel popularity grows


http://www.detnews.com/2003/business/0301/05/b04-51534.htm

Sunday, January 5, 2003

Marcio Jose Sanchez / Associated Press

David Hawley displays a bottle of biodiesel at Yokayo Biofuels in 
Ukiah, Calif. Biodiesel is the fastest growing alternative fuel in 
the country.

Biodiesel popularity grows

Backers say fuel extends engine life, reduces pollution

By Karen Gaudette / Associated Press

UKIAH, Calif. -- Surrounded by a pack of tail-wagging dogs, Dave 
Hawley stuck his bearded face up to the exhaust pipe of his delivery 
truck, closed his eyes and inhaled.

Hawley is indeed hooked on biodiesel, a pollution-reducing fuel 
gleaned from restaurant grease or the oil of crops like soybeans.

Biodiesel is the fastest-growing alternative fuel in the country, 
according to the National Biodiesel Board, which touts its ability to 
extend engine life, improve fuel economy, cut down on air pollution 
and reduce reliance on foreign oil. It has been in use in Europe for 
some 15 years.

But biodiesel is more expensive than traditional diesel -- at least 
30 percent more at one point last summer. To lower costs, lawmakers 
have proposed tax incentives for using biodiesel, but Congress 
adjourned for the session without acting on the bills.

If it were the same price, I think we would see use expand 
dramatically, said Jenna Higgins, spokeswoman for the biodiesel 
board, a trade group affiliated with the U.S. Department of 
Agriculture.

Biodiesel releases less carbon monoxide and fewer hydrocarbons and 
particles than petroleum-based diesel, according to the U.S. 
Environmental Protection Agency. It works with most diesel engines.

Hawley's so hooked on it, he's even sipped the amber-colored liquid 
to demonstrate its low toxicity to the 100-plus customers of his 
Yokayo Biofuels company in Ukiah, a rural community 120 miles north 
of San Francisco. Customers include local farmers, California 
wineries and a fleet of coffee delivery trucks.

It really just gives people a way not to live with hypocrisy, 
Hawley said outside the garage where he and business partner, Kumar 
Plocher, experiment with batches of lye, wood or grain alcohol and 
various vegetable oils.

Biodiesel is produced by blending lye, methanol or ethanol and oil, 
then letting it settle. Glycerin, a soap ingredient, separates from 
biodiesel in large vats. Plocher and Hawley may even add essential 
oils so tailpipes will spew the scent of lavender, rosemary or sage.

Yokayo distributes 13,000 gallons of biodiesel a month -- enough to 
rank as one of the country's largest independent distributors in this 
small but growing industry, which now has annual sales of about $25 
million, according to the National Biodiesel Board.

Tim Piper, director of vineyard operations for Fetzer Vineyards, one 
of California's 10 largest wineries, has powered tractors and other 
farm equipment with biodiesel for the past year to help reduce the 
winery's environmental impact.

They're running great, absolutely no difference, Piper said.

Except for the price.

In its most common form, biodiesel is sold in a mixture of 80 percent 
petroleum-based diesel and 20 percent biodiesel.

Due to growing demand and relatively few suppliers, a gallon of the 
80/20 blend cost $1.79 on the West Coast in July, compared with $1.38 
for a gallon of petrodiesel, according to the U.S. Department of 
Energy. Pure biodiesel costs even more.

But many conservationists say they don't mind paying more for cleaner 
fuel, and federal pollution regulations are also providing an 
incentive for managers of fleets. The U.S. Postal Service, for 
instance, has used biodiesel at several locations, including San 
Francisco, Miami and New York.

Higgins said biodiesel has grown quickly in usage because it 
generally works with any diesel engines made after 1992. She said 
older engines need only slight modifications -- many have parts made 
with natural rubber, which could adversely interact with biodiesel.

Other fuel alternatives, like natural gas and propane, need special 
equipment or more extensive modifications.

Though biodiesel, like one form of traditional diesel, has a tendency 
to coagulate at colder temperatures, producers and distributors can 
add anti-jell substances to prevent that.

Diesel's roots are organic. Rudolph Diesel, the German engineer whose 
engine concept published in 1893 eventually bore his name, fueled his 
prototype with peanut oil. But such oils lost sway when 
petroleum-based fuel became cheaper and more plentiful.

Biodiesel producers are hoping for an organic comeback.

U.S. production of biodiesel was expected to grow to more than 20 
million gallons in 2002 and as much as 40 million gallons this year, 
according to the National Biodiesel Board. Soybean oil accounted for 
90 percent of the material used to produce biodiesel in 2001.

Hawley and Plocher say they're already turning a modest profit and 
plan to open biodiesel filling stations in Ukiah and Santa Rosa

Re: [biofuel] cost of PEX tubing for heating

2003-01-08 Thread Kim Garth Travis


I paid $230. for 500 ft. of 1/2 PEX, delivered to Bryan, Texas.  I 
ordered it through Lowe's.  They can also get 1000 ft. pieces, no problem.

Bright Blessings,
Kim


 At 06:30 PM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote:
  Any idea of costs on this material for this application (I unfortunately
  don't have the square footage of the building in front of me)?
  Mark



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Re: [biofuel] cost of PEX tubing for heating

2003-01-08 Thread Kim Garth Travis


I should have stated that this price included tax of 8.25%.
Bright Blessings,
Kim

Kim  Garth Travis wrote:

 I paid $230. for 500 ft. of 1/2 PEX, delivered to Bryan, Texas.  I
 ordered it through Lowe's.  They can also get 1000 ft. pieces, no problem.
 
 Bright Blessings,
 Kim
 
 
   At 06:30 PM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote:
Any idea of costs on this material for this application (I 
 unfortunately
don't have the square footage of the building in front of me)?
Mark
  
 
 
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[biofuel] bumper stickers for biofuel use?


What readily available bumper stickers are out there for those who choose to use
Biofuels or part-biofuels?  By readily available I just mean, easily purchased
via the web or something like that.

I had some bumper stickers printed up after 9-11 that said 

Boycott OPEC
Use Electric Fuel

but I was on a budget and couldn't do all the themes that I'm into.  I did it
through www.thestickerguy.com

I had to spend about $20 for a minimum type of order.  I wonder if he couldn't
do some good ones that were biofuel oriented.  My design skills weren't good, so
that was another factor, I just made mine overly-simple.

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RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Vegetable Oil Based Bio Fuel Choices


Hi Darren

Keith

 
  Hi again Darren
 


  *  Blends may not be as suitable for these newer engines although
  I'm not clued up on this. I know the Biopower Group (represented by
  John
  Nicholson) have been doing a lot of work on this for a while
  now and I
  know they have a number of vehicles running blends (not sure of
  mileages) somewhere I have some info on University Research
  in America
  and various patents.
 
  That would be interesting.
 
  There is some information on my site www.vegburner.co.uk/blends I'll
  have a bit of a dig around for more info (I'm sure I have some).  It
  would be a pity to dismiss something that may have potential.
 
  Not dismissing it, nor your description - Less research...
  Blends/microemulsions could well be a potential solution or part
  solution in some situations. More information would help to assess
  potential. No problem, but other people have maybe been a bit too
  gung-ho for what is essentially an experimental approach with unknown
  long-term effects - eg Top Gear?

From what I can tell regarding Top Gear the intention was to show a
blend using another solvent, HM Customs  Excise got involved as they
were not happy as the preferred solvent is generally available as a duty
marked fuel and by UK law cannot be used as part of a road fuel blend.
The white spirit was some kind of a compromise.  I see it as a good
thing on balance as it opened many eyes to biofuels, pity it was sketchy
info

Maybe it opened their eyes a bit too wide. We had several subsequent 
inquiries from people convinced that all it needed was a spoonful of 
whatever and away you go.

  And possibly Nicholson's Biopower
  Group, since he's selling how-to sessions. If so, that's not helpful,
  far better to spell it out. Others have dismissed it, when the Top
  Gear stuff was discussed - baloney, said one (at Biofuel I think).
  I said it was inconclusive.

I have had the pleasure of meeting John and one of his associates during
the summer.  They have been working on their fuel for some time and as I
have said have a fair number of vehicles running with apparently no
problems.

Good, maybe long-term results will be forthcoming, if they get that 
far. I trust they're doing proper monitoring and regular testing.

 Re blends/microemulsions, is there any real information available
 other than very small mileages and optimism? There is some
 information on e-diesel or diesohol, but it only applies to the
 extent that unheated SVO is similar to petro-diesel - ie, not very.
 If the combustion characteristics of a fuel are to be considered as
 well as just its viscosity, and surely it ought to be in view of the
 complexity of modern diesels, then there should maybe be more
 concerns than just possible alcohol damage to fuel system components.
 
  Maybe more research is required but I think in
  certain situations blends could be an option
 
  That's worth finding out.
 

Right, here's a review of some microemulsion, co solvency info in a
paper I have (cheers Paddy)...

Alternative Diesel Fuels from Vegetable Oils and Animal Fats
Robert O DUNN and Gerhard KNOTHE
Journal Oleo Sci. Vol 50. No 5 (2001)
Dilution of triglycerides using a low-mol. Wt. (molecular weight?)
alcohol to reduce viscosity.  As the suitable polar alcohols (such as
Ethanol and Methanol) are nearly immiscible with triglycerides a
surfactant is used to solubalise the mixture.
Microemulsions were produced involving aqueous ethanol (95%) with
vegetable oil and a butanol or methanol VO and alkanols

Co-solvent blends using 95% aqueous ethanol, VO a butanol and/or
triethylammonium (Z,Z)-9,12-octadeca-dienoate (try saying that after a
few beers)

Viscosity's reduced to around 9mm sq/second compared to 2.7 for diesel,
32 soya, 38 rape.

Heat content, cetane number and flash point are lower with than diesel
fuel some blends have cloud points above 0 deg C

Test runs of two fuels using 200h EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association)
engine durability tests showed no deterioration in performance although
engine strip downs showed heavy carbon and lacquer deposits similar to
those from using VO.

It's an updater on their earlier work, mostly about biodiesel, with 
some info on SVO and microemulsions. There might be more information 
in this paper (reffed on our SVO page):
Biodiesel: The Use of Vegetable Oils and Their Derivatives as 
Alternative Diesel Fuels, G. Knothe, R.O. Dunn, and M.O. Bagby, in 
Fuels and Chemicals from Biomass. Washington, D.C.: American Chemical 
Society. Download full-text article (Acrobat file, 901kb):
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/gen-162.pdf

See Microemulsification, three and a half pages:

Engine tests were performed on several microemulsions. A non-ionic 
microemulsion comprising of alkali-refined, winterized sunflower oil 
(53.3 vol-%), 95% aqueous ethanol (13.3 vol-%) and 1-butanol (33.4 
vol-%) encountered incomplete combustion at low-load engine 
operation as major

[biofuel] Alarm as GM pig vaccine taints US crops


... half a million bushels of soya bean... incinerated. Now why 
didn't it occur to them to incinerate the oil content in people's 
diesel motors? Have to stop thinking of biofuels as nothing more than 
just a useful little sideline for soy and corn farmers, or for Big 
Soy and Big Corn, probably more accurate. And then we get all this 
nonsense (from the same folks?) about how much land will it take to 
grow enough biofuels? Sigh.

Keith


http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,865021,00.html
Guardian Unlimited | The Guardian |
Alarm as GM pig vaccine taints US crops

Strict new guidelines planned after contamination

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Tuesday December 24, 2002
The Guardian

US authorities, shaken by a case in which food crops were 
contaminated with an experimental pig vaccine, are preparing to 
impose stringent guidelines on a new generation of experimental GM 
crops.

The department of agriculture and the environmental protection agency 
are encountering growing disquiet from a coalition of farmers and 
food manufacturers about the potential dangers of the next phase of 
GM products - biopharming, or the implanting of genes in food crops 
to grow drugs and industrial chemicals.

The idea of tightening regulations on GM products represents 
something of a revolution in thinking in the US, where about 70% of 
the processed food on supermarket shelves contains genetically 
engineered ingredients.

But concerns have arisen after a small biotech firm in Texas was 
fined $3m (£2m) for tainting half a million bushels of soya bean with 
a trial vaccine used to prevent stomach upsets in piglets.

Under a settlement reached this month, the first of its kind against 
any biotech company in the US, a firm called Prodigene agreed to pay 
a fine of $250,000 and to repay the government for the cost of 
incinerating the soya bean that had been contaminated with 
genetically altered corn.

US authorities said the corn did not reach food crops or animal feed. 
But the episode has drawn unwelcome attention to an as yet 
experimental area of GM farming.

The premise behind biopharming, or pharming for short, is that 
genetic tinkering can turn an ordinary-looking corn or barley field 
into a potential drug factory, producing insulin, chemotherapy drugs, 
and other products for much less than it would cost to set up an 
industrial plant.

At present, two dozen trials of the experimental GM drugs are under 
way across the US.

The biotech firms argue that the new technique can revolutionise 
health care, especially in the developing world where hospitals short 
on syringes can dispense edible drugs. But in the wake of the Texas 
case, questions are being asked.

The latest incident was the worst violation so far of regulations 
intended to keep biopharming out of the food supply. It was also seen 
as the most serious setback to date to the next generation of GM 
farming.

Until now, genetic engineering has been used mainly to make crops 
such as corn and soya bean resistant to insects and disease, and the 
US food industry has been solidly on side.

The Texas alarm has begun to change that. The incident overall just 
reaffirms our concerns that something could go wrong, Stephanie 
Childs of the Grocery Manufacturers of America, which represents food 
companies such as Kellogg and General Mills, told the Los Angeles 
Times.

Analysts in Washington said yesterday that they expected the 
department of agriculture to impose more stringent guidelines next 
year. Published reports said yesterday that guidelines under 
consideration by the authorities include moving experimental farms 
away from America's grain belt in the mid-west, or requiring growers 
to dye the leaves of the altered crops.

The agriculture department's disciplinary measures against the small 
Texas firm have crystallised concerns among farmers, 
environmentalists and industry about the risks of experimental 
vaccine crops getting into the food supply.

The department of agriculture wanted to send a signal that the 
companies need to take the obligation to protect the food supply very 
seriously, Michael Rodemeyer, the director of Washington's Pew 
Initiative on Food and Biotechnology, said yesterday.

The whole issue of growing pharmaceuticals in food crops has 
certainly raised concern within the food industry, as well as among 
environmentalists and others, about genes from these crops getting 
into the food supply.

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[biofuel] RE: Last word on Window Insulation--was CFL bulbs -- was Re: Window quilts etc

2003-01-08 Thread Thom Strange


Pardon the pitch but...   I sell double glazed interior storm windows
that roughly triple the r-value of existing windows.  Totally clear,
lightweight, eliminate window condensation, made to size, 10 year
warranty etc  Average 3'x5' window comes in at around $100.  Pardon the
horn tooting but they are the absolute best performer on the market.
1-877-758-0088

Thom Strange

Talmage Solar Engineering (ME)


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[biofuel] Efficient oil heating furnaces/waterheaters

2003-01-08 Thread Myles Twete


Toyotomi seems to be excelling in oil-burning furnaces and waterheaters.
Their units are compact and efficient (88% claimed on their waterheater).
See: http://www.toyotomiusa.com/HomeProducts.html or
http://www.toyotomiusa.com/products/WaterHeaters.html

I'm not using a Toyotomi, but heard good things about themWe use a high
efficiency Riello Model 40 F5 burner with an old furnace, and we burn 100%
biodiesel.  The Riello is very well engineered in my opinion, with minimal
electric power consumption (only 150watts vs 600watts-plus for other
burners).

Only problem we're currently experiencing is failed starts when the outside
temp drops below 36deg for long.  Our tank is underground, some 25 feet away
and the Riello pump is a single stage---so we're pushing limits given
biodiesel's increased viscosity, the long distance and the underground tank.
I'm thinking of switching to just using gravity feed from our other above
ground tank.

Myles Twete, Portland, Or.


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Re: [biofuel] Efficient oil heating furnaces/waterheaters

2003-01-08 Thread Neoteric Biofuels Inc


We tried some biodiesel in a Toyotomi a year or so ago, it worked ok 
for a while (a short time - a few days), but then the unit started 
having problems firing up. This was just preliminary work, and we have 
not done any more on it. Preheating the biodiesel might help. We were 
just putting it into the built in tank, and no preheating.  I think 
that was the Laser 30 model.

Edward Beggs
Neoteric Biofuels Inc.




On Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 09:30 AM, Myles Twete wrote:

 Toyotomi seems to be excelling in oil-burning furnaces and 
 waterheaters.
 Their units are compact and efficient (88% claimed on their 
 waterheater).
 See: http://www.toyotomiusa.com/HomeProducts.html or
 http://www.toyotomiusa.com/products/WaterHeaters.html

 I'm not using a Toyotomi, but heard good things about themWe use a 
 high
 efficiency Riello Model 40 F5 burner with an old furnace, and we burn 
 100%
 biodiesel.  The Riello is very well engineered in my opinion, with 
 minimal
 electric power consumption (only 150watts vs 600watts-plus for other
 burners).

 Only problem we're currently experiencing is failed starts when the 
 outside
 temp drops below 36deg for long.  Our tank is underground, some 25 
 feet away
 and the Riello pump is a single stage---so we're pushing limits given
 biodiesel's increased viscosity, the long distance and the underground 
 tank.
 I'm thinking of switching to just using gravity feed from our other 
 above
 ground tank.

 Myles Twete, Portland, Or.


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Re: [biofuel] Was-Vegetable Oil Based Bio Fuel Choices-Fuel Injectors

2003-01-08 Thread girl mark

Elsbett is a single-tank SVO system, therefore, there is no diesel or
biodiesel to 'flush out' the injectors with. Also there is no diesel or
biodiesel to start up- you start the engine right on vegoil. The changes in
injectors (I think you also get them calibrated for a higher opening
pressure (am I right about that?) deals with one or both of those factors.
Obviously if you're running WVO and it gells in your tank you have a
problem, but for moderate climates or for the non-freezing seasons this
works well.
Mark
By the way I could be wrong about wider (?) spray pattern, but the
injectors do change the fuel delivery somewhat. I'm not real 'up' on
Elsbett's stuff.

At 02:34 AM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
In a message dated 08/01/03 00:59:19 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Elsbett kits get around this by changing the injector sleeves and
needle to
give a wider spray pattern, I believe

Why would you require a different spray pattern after massive development of
an optimum system by a manufacturer. To gain what - better fuel consumption,
better emissions, lower peak temperatures, or whatever?

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Re: [biofuel] Batteries ... the power to time converter

2003-01-08 Thread NeilUSA


At 11:19 Wednesday, you wrote:
I'd just like to add that I think it would be a shame to install batteries
when you have a grid connection to use as your buffer.  I assume you have
net metering up to the value of the electricity you take.

Net metering is available and earlier reported on so this is a bit of a 
repeat.  The average cost of electricity from the grid in the area is 
6c/KWH with a minimum charge of 10USD/month.  Assuming one does not mind 
all the additional cost and complexity to connect to the grid, they will 
purchase surplus over the net use at a rate of 2c/KWH with a maximum flow 
of up to 25KW.  For an 8KW genset with an average annual use of 3KW running 
at constant 75% full rated capacity of 6KW less a .7KWH required to pay the 
minimum monthly charge means one would get paid 5c/hour.  At 0.05USD you 
get per day = 1.20, week = 8.40, month = 36.37, and year = 436.80.  In 
return, you get to enjoy a regulatory agency in your home, a demand for 
special equipment set up and maintenance, the requirement for liability 
insurance, fines and charges if your system has a hiccup and they catch it, 
the additional wear and tear on the base system, and the requirement to go 
fetch additional fuel compensated only pennies/gal.  It is not worth the 
hassle compared to an 8KW genset configured as I have outlined using a 
small battery bank to supply 240V to the intermittent heavy demand heater 
loads.  It is of value as a break even perhaps for those with a photo 
voltaic or wind system who otherwise are looking at massive battery 
systems and out of their control electrical output below their needs.  I 
did look into net metering and even sizing a system to produce 25KW only to 
realize there was no net benefit.  This was even after factoring capture of 
the waste heat for water and space heating.  Utility companies are not 
friendly and I am not interested in a situation of perpetual aggression 
with a new bedmate.

consumption, and the waste heat is a bonus.  If it works OK, maybe you can
persuade your neibours to do the same to make best use of the waste oil.

The 8KW genset I am tentatively considering may be sufficient to handle two 
homes providing the winter heating is not by electricity.  A place I am 
bidding on happens to have the neighbor feeding off my pole and crossing my 
land underground.  There may be an opportunity for me to maintain grid 
connection as a backup for both of us (using 10USD of power per the monthly 
minimum charge).  He would need to have his own small 240V battery bank 
and appliance modifications by his house and I would have.  (Granted, most 
heater elements could be changed to 120V; however, the sudden on/off and 
reduction of heat generation may make this undesirable.)  Then I would have 
more waste heat to use while charging my neighbor (I have a meter) for his 
consumption at less than he pays now.  I have kept this in the back of my 
mind as a possible option while recognizing most folks are to afraid to do 
anything unorthodox.



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Re: [biofuel] add co gen/propane

2003-01-08 Thread NeilUSA


At 06:55 Wednesday, you wrote:
I am building an foam/fiberglass airplane (LongEz) which likes 
temperatures in the 70F+ range while the Oregon coastline runs from 30 to 
70F on average.

Neil, gonna put a diesel in it? Run it on Biodiesel? Thielert makes a nice
powerful 4 cyl diesel that is a direct replacement for a Lycoming or
Continental. Nice, but pricey. www.thielert.com.

I had not considered that and it is an interesting thought.  I rebuilt a 
Lycoming O-235 with variable pitch controls since this is the engine of 
choice for the LongEz.  This was before considering producing my own fuels 
from WVO such as biodiesel.  Well, I already have the engine and the first 
priority will be to get the plane flying at this point.  But, due to what I 
am leaning from lists like this one, I am converting most of my other 
engine requirements to diesel forms and adding home 
electrification/heating.  As long as it can be maintained in line with 
KISS.  Thanks for the link



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[biofuel] koch / flint hills soy diesel

2003-01-08 Thread Aaron Ellringer


Howdy folks.  While I was cruising the TDIclub forums, I came across a
reference to

http://www.premiumdiesel.com/

which is the website of Koch refineries.  They list US soy field diesel
and  US soy field diesel plus and have availability maps for stations that
carry.  Their product information doesn't necessarily reveal whether this
soy diesel is B1, B20, or B100, they just call it soy field diesel.  My
impression is that this is just using biodiesel as a slight additive. At the
same time, I am mildly heartened that at least biofuels are breaking
through.

Does anyone out there have any experience with these folks?

aaron in way too warm wisconsin, south of most of canada


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Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1302

2003-01-08 Thread Grahams





1/2 Dura PEX -- $0.39 per foot in big rolls.

They also have 7/8 for $0.64 per foot -- don't know
which you want.

I seem to remember the runs are laid out on 4 centers.


Call your local plumbing supply store. I ended up getting a package deal 
only because it was cheaper to buy the Polaris (most energy efficient 
propane water heater at the time).  The pex itself is relatively cheap. Any 
extra can be used for regular plumbing.  Actually I am replacing all the 
copper now in the house with pex  as soon as I can. Our water is naturally 
acidic and the copper is dissolving into the water supply.  The actual 
installation of the pex is very simple. It seems to be strong enough to 
handle concrete made with pea gravel, so I shouldn't worry too much about 
it being fragile.  The fittings however, (which should be out of the floor) 
may leak eventually and need attention of a plumber.  I do have problems 
with some of mine in the fall, after a summer of disuse.

I would consider an instant water heater for such a small building.- the 
kind that heat only 2 gallons at a time, but very quickly. Supposedly very 
efficient since you aren't paying for a 40 gallon tank of hot water to be 
sitting around.

Haven't finished reading all the digests, but the cooling part would 
concern me.  Having installed in-floor radiant, I must also pay for ducts 
for A/C.  Probably installing 10 ft ceilings and ceiling fans has been the 
best thing for summer comfort. We have the super insulated, glazing on the 
south side, 4ft overhang, etc.  I think I would prefer individual window 
units for AC in a larger construction- so everything isn't being cooled 
unless there is a need.

Preheating the water with a solar system of some type would be the best, 
but I don't know if you could get a donation of the needed materials.  The 
trend on this at the Solar Decathalon  was a specially manufactured roof 
mounted vacuum tube. I am not sure that it is superior to a larger system 
constructed of black tubing, recycled hot water tanks, or some other 
homemade system.

Good Luck
Caroline



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Re: [biofuel] koch / flint hills soy diesel

2003-01-08 Thread James Slayden


Sheesh, why is it we spend so much time just sending email questions
  sometimes I think we forget to use the phone 

So here is the info (I called them, 1-800 number):

U.S. Soy =  B2

U.S. Soy Plus =  B2 + chemical Cetane enhancer

I asked why they just didn't increase the Biodiesel in the blend and they
said that they get better enhancement (cetane number) with less product
(ie. cost??) using the chemicals.  Seems to me that since B20 is rather
hot with the fleet managers they would be trying to sell that.  Oh well!

James Slayden

On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Aaron Ellringer wrote:

 Howdy folks.  While I was cruising the TDIclub forums, I came across a
 reference to
 
 http://www.premiumdiesel.com/
 
 which is the website of Koch refineries.  They list US soy field diesel
 and  US soy field diesel plus and have availability maps for stations
 that
 carry.  Their product information doesn't necessarily reveal whether this
 soy diesel is B1, B20, or B100, they just call it soy field diesel. 
 My
 impression is that this is just using biodiesel as a slight additive. At
 the
 same time, I am mildly heartened that at least biofuels are breaking
 through.
 
 Does anyone out there have any experience with these folks?
 
 aaron in way too warm wisconsin, south of most of canada
 
 
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Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1302



Hi Caroline,

At 04:20 PM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:

snip
Haven't finished reading all the digests, but the cooling part would
concern me.  Having installed in-floor radiant, I must also pay for ducts
for A/C.  Probably installing 10 ft ceilings and ceiling fans has been the
best thing for summer comfort. We have the super insulated, glazing on the
south side, 4ft overhang, etc.  I think I would prefer individual window
units for AC in a larger construction- so everything isn't being cooled
unless there is a need.

Do not forget to close the doors in that case, a 4 degree F difference will
cause around 50 cubic meter air exchange per hour between rooms if the
door is not closed.  Can cause one room to heat the air and the other to
cool, very expensive and useless energy waste, but not uncommon.
Especially in offices with individual thermostats.

Modern efficient building science, my (dirty expression)?


snip

Good Luck
Caroline

Hakan 



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[biofuel] CNN and SUVs



Just looked at a CNN program about US oil dependence
and SUVs. They interviewed a Catzman from the Institute
of Competitive . I am in an age were I should avoid
this kind of things, too high risk of inducing a heart attack.
Where do they find these guys and on top of that, he
probably have a hefty salary. Female prostitutes who earns
a lot less, they throw in jail.

Hakan



**
If you want to take a look on a project
that is very close to my heart, go to:
http://energysavingnow.com/
http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card
http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me
http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site
**
A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to
how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world
being round that agitated people, but that the world
wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has
been sold to the masses over generations, the truth
will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving
lunatic.  -- Dresden James

No flag is large enough to cover the shame of
killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn

Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years.
We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may
wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm
wrinkles the soul. - Unknown





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[biofuel] FW: windows

2003-01-08 Thread Thom Strange


Hello Kirk,

We are in Maine (ME).  They are for any size or style opening...window,
patio door, skylight etc.  They double the R-value of a double pane
window and triple the R-value of a single pane.  

Better yet, We had this tested at another engineering lab.(Lawrence
Berkley Laboratories, Ross DePaolo)The test goes as follows:  

-Zero degrees farenheit outside the window 

-Indoor ambient temperature is seventy degrees farenheit.  

-The inside surface of the glass is 17.2 degrees F.  

-After the insulating unit is installed the indoor surface is 57 degrees
F.  

It eliminates all condensation and related issues (Mold, wood rot,
peeling paint, inside frost etc).  The comfort difference is also huge
because there isn't the thermal cycling off of the surface of the
window.  In addition to normal residential applications, we have people
winterize (or greatly extend the season depending upon application)
greenhouses and screen porches without supplemental heat.  If you have
any other questions, drop me a line.

Thom

Talmage Solar Engineering 1-877-785-0088



-Original Message-
From: kirk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 4:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: windows



What state are you in?
I assume that is for a non opening vinyl window.

How do you get R3 from an R2 situation?

Thanks 
Kirk


Pardon the pitch but...   I sell double glazed interior storm windows
that roughly triple the r-value of existing windows.  Totally clear,
lightweight, eliminate window condensation, made to size, 10 year
warranty etc  Average 3'x5' window comes in at around $100.  Pardon the
horn tooting but they are the absolute best performer on the market.
1-877-758-0088

Thom Strange

Talmage Solar Engineering (ME)





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Re: [biofuel] FW: windows



Tom,

If you need more and better arguments, go to our site,

http://energysavingnow.com/

For your info:
Thermal cycling (I assume that this is the down draft) starts
as follows,
Single pane at8 degree Celsius
Double pane at   4 degree Celsius
Triple   pane at0 degree Celsius (32 F)

Going from 1 to 3 panes (now standard in Sweden) give
much larger savings than the better R-value indicates.
R-values with the commonly used linear formula to use
them is at best a totally faulty method. R-values should
be used in correct transmission calculations.

This has to do with the higher surface temperature and
the lowering of room temperature that automatically is
a result of that. The human body is more sensitive to
the surface temperature than the room temperature.
The emission factors must be considered also and the
improvement is then larger.

Swedish building code prescribe 18 degree Celsius surface
temperature as minimum allowed for outer walls and parts
of them. Single pane at 70 degree F, is not a comfortable
room, you would need at least 76 degree F to compensate
for the low surface temperature. Triple pane, assuming that
wall insulation is sufficient, would allow for reduction of
room temperature to 68 degree F at the same comfort level.

You are talking about 10 to 20% savings, going from single
to triple pane windows. This since you still have the ceiling
as the largest leakage, small improvement of attic insulation
at the same time as window improvement, can give 30 to 40%
improvement. Assuming that the air leakage around windows
are small.

Hakan


At 06:00 PM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
Hello Kirk,

We are in Maine (ME).  They are for any size or style opening...window,
patio door, skylight etc.  They double the R-value of a double pane
window and triple the R-value of a single pane.

Better yet, We had this tested at another engineering lab.(Lawrence
Berkley Laboratories, Ross DePaolo)The test goes as follows:

-Zero degrees farenheit outside the window

-Indoor ambient temperature is seventy degrees farenheit.

-The inside surface of the glass is 17.2 degrees F.

-After the insulating unit is installed the indoor surface is 57 degrees
F.

It eliminates all condensation and related issues (Mold, wood rot,
peeling paint, inside frost etc).  The comfort difference is also huge
because there isn't the thermal cycling off of the surface of the
window.  In addition to normal residential applications, we have people
winterize (or greatly extend the season depending upon application)
greenhouses and screen porches without supplemental heat.  If you have
any other questions, drop me a line.

Thom

Talmage Solar Engineering 1-877-785-0088



-Original Message-
From: kirk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 4:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: windows



What state are you in?
I assume that is for a non opening vinyl window.

How do you get R3 from an R2 situation?

Thanks
Kirk


Pardon the pitch but...   I sell double glazed interior storm windows
that roughly triple the r-value of existing windows.  Totally clear,
lightweight, eliminate window condensation, made to size, 10 year
warranty etc  Average 3'x5' window comes in at around $100.  Pardon the
horn tooting but they are the absolute best performer on the market.
1-877-758-0088

Thom Strange

Talmage Solar Engineering (ME)



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Re: [biofuel] Smoke to get in Manila eyes, at least for a while

2003-01-08 Thread chris chris






Kieth, are you from manila? Well that is what they call democracy. That's 
also one of the reasons why the country can't move forward. Democratic but 
undisciplined.

_
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963



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Re: [biofuel] FW: windows



Tom,

was not clear about this, should be,

For your info:

Thermal cycling (I assume that this is the down draft) starts
at following outside temperatures,

Single pane at 8 degree Celsius
Double pane at 4 degree Celsius
Triple pane at 0 degree Celsius (32 F)



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[biofuel] 82 Westy diesel FS

2003-01-08 Thread Neoteric Biofuels Inc


Anyone interested in good 82 non-turbo diesel Westy with fairly new 
engine and other recent work, good body etc., originally from 
California so can go back to US (currently in Western Canada. Looking 
for around $5500 US

Also have a line on a 93 Eurovan  Westfalia (full camper) diesel, 
Canadian issue, have to change odometer to miles to go to US - around 
$15,000 US

Email me OFF LIST if interested.

Thanks!

Edward Beggs

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [biofuel] CNN and SUVs


On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:56:05 +0100, you wrote:


Just looked at a CNN program about US oil dependence
and SUVs. They interviewed a Catzman from the Institute
of Competitive . I am in an age were I should avoid
this kind of things, too high risk of inducing a heart attack.
Where do they find these guys and on top of that, he
probably have a hefty salary. Female prostitutes who earns
a lot less, they throw in jail.

Hakan

Here's one to brighten your day a little.  Even though they got turned down, I
think the fact that they made this ad and it'll probably get out there somewhere
is good:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/wed/news/news_1n8suvs.html

If you want to keep the article, you'll have to save it yourself.  My local
paper is pretty touchy about copyright.

Anyway, calling these drug-terrorism linking ads into question is wayy
overdue, and so is something which would at least draw a parallel with oil.  So,
I like seeing a discussion even if I don't agree with all of it.

I don't hate SUVs (I sometimes think that the modest-sized ones are just a way
for some to get back to a car with interior room that they want), but something
needs to be done to call into question and discussion where we are getting our
fuel and at what price, and what the future of this paradigm is.

MM

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[biofuel] Re: Some choice Was: The Future of Fuel-Efficient Cars / The Thirst for Oil

2003-01-08 Thread csakima


But now, arbitrarily set gasoline to ... say $20 bucks a gallon.

Now what?  I don't see the choices getting any better  or am I
missing something???

Curtis

Get your free newsletter at
http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL


- Original Message -
From: malcolm.scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Yes of course they are choices, and ones that people are making all the
time. There are probably many reasons for the increasing commuting mileage,
but two are:

People find higher paid jobs further away and don't want to move. People
find lower cost housing further away and don't want to change jobs. Not only
is the mileage per person increasing but the fuel consumption per vehicle is
also. These things are encouraged by the very low cost of fuel.



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[biofuel] Arianna Huffington and Detroitproject.com


 Dear Friends,
 
 The anti-SUV ad campaign you helped create, which we have named
 The Detroit Project, is unveiling our two 30-second ads (entirely
 funded by your contributions) at a press conference in Los
 Angeles at 10am this morning. The ads are available at
 www.detroitproject.com. Also on our website will be a letter you
 can send to Detroit's automakers, a form to fill out for those
 dumping their SUVs, and a paypal link so that we can raise more
 money and buy additional air time. The ads will start running on
 the political talk shows this Sunday in major markets around the
 country.
 
 All the best,  
 Arianna
 
 Road Outrage: How Corporate Greed And Political Corruption Paved
 The Way For The SUV Explosion
 
 By Arianna Huffington
 
 America's automakers have finally sputtered into first gear.
 
 Responding to the growing public outcry over its reckless
 gas-guzzling ways, the auto industry used the Detroit Auto Show
 this week to unveil a line-up of coming soon to a showroom near
 you hybrid vehicles -- including a number of hybrid SUVs.
 
 The question -- though I'm willing to bet no one at the car show
 asked it -- is: What took them so long? After all, cars powered
 by a combination of gas and electricity have been around since
 1905, when the Woods Motor Vehicle Co. offered a dual-powered
 model.
 
 And while Detroit's sudden interest in hybrids after a
 near-century of neglect is certainly a step in the right
 direction, given the fact that many of the prototypes on display
 in the Motor City won't be on showroom floors for years -- if
 ever -- it's fair to wonder just how decisive a step it is.
 
 It's one thing to make a big show of rolling out glittering
 concept models intended for future production -- or to promise,
 as GM did, to have a million hybrid vehicles for sale by 2007 if
 demand is high -- and quite another to commit the marketing
 resources necessary to create the high demand. Time will tell if
 the industry has really fallen in love with this new/old kid on
 the block or if the industry's embrace of hybrid technology is
 just a one night stand, a here-today-gone-tomorrow defensive
 gambit for the PR cameras.
 
 We have ample reason to question the sincerity of the industry's
 stated intentions. Anyone remember the Supercar, that 80 mpg
 marvel that was supposed to hit the road by 2004 but instead
 managed to eat up $1.5 billion in taxpayer money before being
 abandoned on the side of the highway? Or the FreedomCAR, the Bush
 administration's equally lame responsible vehicle partnership
 with Detroit? Both highly touted programs allowed automakers to
 look like they were sweating blood to improve fuel efficiency
 while doing everything in their power to convince consumers to
 buy more and more fuel-inefficient -- and hugely profitable --
 SUVs.
 
 For a good indication of Detroit's real plans, we need look no
 further than this week's L.A. Auto Show. (Yes, I'm a regular on
 the auto show circuit.) There were as many hybrid cars on display
 as there were rickshaws. And in full page newspaper ads headlined
 What's Up At GM? the auto giant bragged about having once
 again shattered the record for SUV sales, topping the million
 mark for the second consecutive year -- propelled by breakout
 vehicles like the one-of-a-kind Hummer H2.
 
 The sales deck is clearly stacked in favor of Detroit's beloved
 behemoths, with billions being spent on SUV advertising and
 ever-more tempting marketing come-ons, like GM's Zero, Zero,
 Zero program which was introduced in December and offered
 no-interest financing on 13 of its SUVs for up to 60 months --
 very tempting in these tough times.
 
 Of course, Washington continues to do its part by holding SUVs to
 lower fuel efficiency and air pollution standards than passenger
 cars. Our politicians have even refused to close a deeply
 misguided tax loophole that rewards buyers of extra large -- and
 extra wasteful -- SUVs with extra large tax breaks.
 
 Think of that: at a time when our leaders should be touting the
 importance of reducing our dependence on foreign oil, the people
 being given a financial incentive to purchase a new vehicle are
 those buying fuel-chugging SUVs.
 
 I was surprised, said Karl Wizinsky, a health care consultant
 from Michigan who just bought a giant Ford Excursion even though
 he admits he doesn't really need it, that a $32,000 credit on a
 $47,000 purchase was available in the first year. I mean, it is a
 substantial credit. Yes, it is. And it's created a substantial
 -- and artificial -- demand.
 
 It's the kind of lunatic public policy that makes you want to
 slam on your brakes and scream out your car window: How can this
 kind of thing happen?
 
 The answer is as simple as it is distressing: special interest
 money has once again trumped the public interest. That's why the
 auto industry was able to turn its back on hybrid technology for
 so long, and why our politicians refuse to this day to demand
 that

Re: [biofuel] CNN and SUVs

2003-01-08 Thread Greg and April

- Original Message -
From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 18:38
Subject: Re: [biofuel] CNN and SUVs

 Anyway, calling these drug-terrorism linking ads into question is wayy
 overdue,

I would say the opposite.  Drugs and terrorism have had a long history of
partnership in South and Central America, North America too if you include
the turf wars of gangs, in major U.S. cities.

Greg H.

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http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

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Re: [biofuel] CNN and SUVs



They did show the ads in the program, but questioned it
in a way that if you like SUV you were pleased and if you
didn't you were pleased. I was more this Catzman who
nearly caused a heart attack. He got to go more or
less unharmed. The lady who represented the factual
side of the equation of oil reserves and demands was
correct, but if you have no honor like Catzman you win
on the below the belt hits. US at its worse I would say.

With the enormous tax break you get to buy a SUV, it
is no wonder that you do. It is today the cheapest
American car available. I have nothing against off road
use as a pleasure, I have already said that. But even the
people who use them for that must react on this reckless
and the completely corrupted policies.

Hakan

At 05:38 PM 1/8/2003 -0800, you wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:56:05 +0100, you wrote:

 
 Just looked at a CNN program about US oil dependence
 and SUVs. They interviewed a Catzman from the Institute
 of Competitive . I am in an age were I should avoid
 this kind of things, too high risk of inducing a heart attack.
 Where do they find these guys and on top of that, he
 probably have a hefty salary. Female prostitutes who earns
 a lot less, they throw in jail.
 
 Hakan

Here's one to brighten your day a little.  Even though they got turned down, I
think the fact that they made this ad and it'll probably get out there 
somewhere
is good:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/wed/news/news_1n8suvs.html

If you want to keep the article, you'll have to save it yourself.  My local
paper is pretty touchy about copyright.

Anyway, calling these drug-terrorism linking ads into question is wayy
overdue, and so is something which would at least draw a parallel with 
oil.  So,
I like seeing a discussion even if I don't agree with all of it.

I don't hate SUVs (I sometimes think that the modest-sized ones are just a way
for some to get back to a car with interior room that they want), but 
something
needs to be done to call into question and discussion where we are getting our
fuel and at what price, and what the future of this paradigm is.

MM



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http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

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http://archive.nnytech.net/

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Re: [biofuel] Arianna Huffington and Detroitproject.com




She was also on the program and did fairly well. But still, if you
have a totally unscrupulous Catzman, who has no respect
for facts and truth?

Hakan


At 05:49 PM 1/8/2003 -0800, you wrote:
  Dear Friends,
 
  The anti-SUV ad campaign you helped create, which we have named
  The Detroit Project, is unveiling our two 30-second ads (entirely
  funded by your contributions) at a press conference in Los
  Angeles at 10am this morning. The ads are available at
  www.detroitproject.com. Also on our website will be a letter you
  can send to Detroit's automakers, a form to fill out for those
  dumping their SUVs, and a paypal link so that we can raise more
  money and buy additional air time. The ads will start running on
  the political talk shows this Sunday in major markets around the
  country.
 
  All the best,
  Arianna
 
  Road Outrage: How Corporate Greed And Political Corruption Paved
  The Way For The SUV Explosion
 
  By Arianna Huffington
 
  America's automakers have finally sputtered into first gear.
 
  Responding to the growing public outcry over its reckless
  gas-guzzling ways, the auto industry used the Detroit Auto Show
  this week to unveil a line-up of coming soon to a showroom near
  you hybrid vehicles -- including a number of hybrid SUVs.
 
  The question -- though I'm willing to bet no one at the car show
  asked it -- is: What took them so long? After all, cars powered
  by a combination of gas and electricity have been around since
  1905, when the Woods Motor Vehicle Co. offered a dual-powered
  model.
 
  And while Detroit's sudden interest in hybrids after a
  near-century of neglect is certainly a step in the right
  direction, given the fact that many of the prototypes on display
  in the Motor City won't be on showroom floors for years -- if
  ever -- it's fair to wonder just how decisive a step it is.
 
  It's one thing to make a big show of rolling out glittering
  concept models intended for future production -- or to promise,
  as GM did, to have a million hybrid vehicles for sale by 2007 if
  demand is high -- and quite another to commit the marketing
  resources necessary to create the high demand. Time will tell if
  the industry has really fallen in love with this new/old kid on
  the block or if the industry's embrace of hybrid technology is
  just a one night stand, a here-today-gone-tomorrow defensive
  gambit for the PR cameras.
 
  We have ample reason to question the sincerity of the industry's
  stated intentions. Anyone remember the Supercar, that 80 mpg
  marvel that was supposed to hit the road by 2004 but instead
  managed to eat up $1.5 billion in taxpayer money before being
  abandoned on the side of the highway? Or the FreedomCAR, the Bush
  administration's equally lame responsible vehicle partnership
  with Detroit? Both highly touted programs allowed automakers to
  look like they were sweating blood to improve fuel efficiency
  while doing everything in their power to convince consumers to
  buy more and more fuel-inefficient -- and hugely profitable --
  SUVs.
 
  For a good indication of Detroit's real plans, we need look no
  further than this week's L.A. Auto Show. (Yes, I'm a regular on
  the auto show circuit.) There were as many hybrid cars on display
  as there were rickshaws. And in full page newspaper ads headlined
  What's Up At GM? the auto giant bragged about having once
  again shattered the record for SUV sales, topping the million
  mark for the second consecutive year -- propelled by breakout
  vehicles like the one-of-a-kind Hummer H2.
 
  The sales deck is clearly stacked in favor of Detroit's beloved
  behemoths, with billions being spent on SUV advertising and
  ever-more tempting marketing come-ons, like GM's Zero, Zero,
  Zero program which was introduced in December and offered
  no-interest financing on 13 of its SUVs for up to 60 months --
  very tempting in these tough times.
 
  Of course, Washington continues to do its part by holding SUVs to
  lower fuel efficiency and air pollution standards than passenger
  cars. Our politicians have even refused to close a deeply
  misguided tax loophole that rewards buyers of extra large -- and
  extra wasteful -- SUVs with extra large tax breaks.
 
  Think of that: at a time when our leaders should be touting the
  importance of reducing our dependence on foreign oil, the people
  being given a financial incentive to purchase a new vehicle are
  those buying fuel-chugging SUVs.
 
  I was surprised, said Karl Wizinsky, a health care consultant
  from Michigan who just bought a giant Ford Excursion even though
  he admits he doesn't really need it, that a $32,000 credit on a
  $47,000 purchase was available in the first year. I mean, it is a
  substantial credit. Yes, it is. And it's created a substantial
  -- and artificial -- demand.
 
  It's the kind of lunatic public policy that makes you want to
  slam on your brakes and scream out your car window: How can this
  kind of thing

Re: [biofuel] Arianna Huffington and Detroitproject.com



I did not really liked the ads either. The whole thing is like kids
who is competing about who knows the most dirty words. I am
not surprised, it is only that I do not like it.

Hakan

At 05:49 PM 1/8/2003 -0800, you wrote:
  Dear Friends,
 
  The anti-SUV ad campaign you helped create, which we have named
  The Detroit Project, is unveiling our two 30-second ads (entirely
  funded by your contributions) at a press conference in Los
  Angeles at 10am this morning. The ads are available at
  www.detroitproject.com. Also on our website will be a letter you
  can send to Detroit's automakers, a form to fill out for those
  dumping their SUVs, and a paypal link so that we can raise more
  money and buy additional air time. The ads will start running on
  the political talk shows this Sunday in major markets around the
  country.
 
  All the best,
  Arianna
  snip
 



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Re: [biofuel] CNN and SUVs


 Anyway, calling these drug-terrorism linking ads into question is wayy
 overdue,

I would say the opposite.  Drugs and terrorism have had a long history of
partnership in South and Central America, North America too if you include
the turf wars of gangs, in major U.S. cities.

Yes, so did alcohol production and terrorism have a strong bond, during the
period when alcohol production was not legal.  Let's just make it illegal again
so the Al Capones of this world can thrive on the black market nature of things.

I wonder if, during Prohibition, I had called into question the connection
between violence and the alcohol trade, if I would be talked-to about the long
history of this, or some such, as though the connection is inherent and
unbreakable, and has absolutely not connection to the criminalization of the
business.

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Re: [biofuel] Re: Some choice Was: The Future of Fuel-Efficient Cars /The Thirst for Oil

2003-01-08 Thread robert luis rabello




csakima wrote:

 But now, arbitrarily set gasoline to ... say $20 bucks a gallon.

 Now what?  I don't see the choices getting any better  or am I
 missing something???

 Curtis

Double the price of gasoline, and I can economically electrolyze water into
hydrogen and oxygen from grid hydro power.  I can easily convert my machines to
burn hydrogen, but it's more expensive to produce than gasoline is to buy at
current prices, so I haven't made the investment.  A kilogram of H2 has roughly
the same energy as a gallon of gasoline, and with a decent electrolyzer would
cost me $3.18 per kilo before compression, and probably $3.25 by the time it was
ready to use.  Right now, at .65 per liter, the price for a gallon of gasoline
is $2.46.  It doesn't have to get much more expensive for H2 to be a viable fuel
with inexpensive hydro electricity.

The problem is not the price of fuel.  The problem is the price of land!

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782



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Re: [biofuel] CNN and SUVs

2003-01-08 Thread Greg and April

- Original Message -
From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 19:34
Subject: Re: [biofuel] CNN and SUVs

  Anyway, calling these drug-terrorism linking ads into question is
wayy
  overdue,

 I would say the opposite.  Drugs and terrorism have had a long history of
 partnership in South and Central America, North America too if you
include
 the turf wars of gangs, in major U.S. cities.

 Yes, so did alcohol production and terrorism have a strong bond, during
the
 period when alcohol production was not legal.  Let's just make it illegal
again
 so the Al Capones of this world can thrive on the black market nature of
things.

I thought about alcohol and its link during Probation ,as I typed my post,
but, until 9-11 came along, nothing so dramatic had happened to make a point
in the U.S., let's face it, the St. Valentines Day Massacre was the 9-11 of
that time. That was the wake up call of that time of what was going on with
the gangs and alcohol and the other underworld activies.

 I wonder if, during Prohibition, I had called into question the connection
 between violence and the alcohol trade, if I would be talked-to about the
long
 history of this, or some such, as though the connection is inherent and
 unbreakable, and has absolutely not connection to the criminalization of
the
 business.

That is a problem with the media and people with to much time on their
hands.

Greg H.

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Re: [biofuel] CNN and SUVs


Just looked at a CNN program about US oil dependence
and SUVs. They interviewed a Catzman from the Institute
of Competitive . I am in an age were I should avoid
this kind of things, too high risk of inducing a heart attack.
Where do they find these guys and on top of that, he
probably have a hefty salary. Female prostitutes who earns
a lot less, they throw in jail.

Hakan

Hi Hakan

Why don't you tell him so?

Email this expert:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

This is where the sheer BS that smaller cars are more dangerous comes 
from, or at least he's greatly helped to put it on the map. ... the 
human toll of downsizing cars to comply with energy-conservation 
mandates, yes, sure... as opposed to the thousands and thousands 
whose lives are lost or ruined every year from excessive and 
unnecessary air-pollution, thankyou Mr Kazman, as well as the toll of 
excessive GG emissions, of excessive fossil-fuel waste - of excessive 
disgusting AHs like Mr Kazman.

As for the lives lost when the Food and Drug Administration delays 
new medical drugs and devices, maybe this is closer to the truth, 
for just one of many such examples:

How a New Policy Led to Seven Deadly Drugs -- Once a wary watchdog, 
the Food and Drug Administration set out to become a partner of the 
pharmaceutical industry. Today, the public has more remedies, but 
some are proving lethal. -- LA Times, December 20, 2000
http://www.msbp.com/fda.htm

Seven drugs approved since 1993 have been withdrawn after reports of 
deaths and severe side effects. A two-year Los Angeles Times 
investigation has found that the FDA approved each of those drugs 
while disregarding danger signs or blunt warnings from its own 
specialists. Then, after receiving reports of significant harm to 
patients, the agency was slow to seek withdrawals.

It's easy to debunk the murderous lies of whores like Mr Kazman ( 
Bailey, Milloy, Fumento, Avery et al) - but it doesn't help much. 
They know they're liars, they don't care about that, their job is to 
keep on getting the lies out on behalf of their clients, to get the 
exposure and the column-inches that (a) get the message believed, 
and (b), much worse, steadily shift the public towards *wanting* to 
believe such stuff.

That it works so well is very clear, we consistently see the dire 
results of thoroughly-spun-America right here, either the evidence 
and the results, or, rather often, the unknowing victims themselves.

Hall of Ill Fame

Biography - Sam Kazman, Corporate Whore

http://www.cei.org/dyn/view_bio.cfm/45
CEI.ORG: Competitive Enterprise Institute

Sam Kazman is general counsel of CEI and heads CEI's Death By 
Regulation project. This project focuses on raising public awareness 
of the often hidden costs of government overregulation-the lives 
lost, for example, when the Food and Drug Administration delays new 
medical drugs and devices, or the human toll of downsizing cars to 
comply with energy-conservation mandates.

In 1992, Mr. Kazman won a federal appeals court ruling that the 
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration had illegally 
concealed the lethal effects on highway safety of its auto fuel 
economy standards. This marked the first judicial overturning of a 
fuel economy standard in the program's history. He has also recently 
been involved in litigation on such issues as advertising 
restrictions, property rights, and environmental regulation.

Mr. Kazman's writings have been featured in such publications as The 
Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and Regulation. 
He has testified at a number of congressional hearings and has 
appeared on such shows as Crossfire, Court TV, Good Morning America, 
and the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer. He was a script consultant on 
Science Under Siege, CEI's documentary on politicized science, and 
he has created a number of CEI radio and television ads.

Mr. Kazman received his JD from the State University of New York at Buffalo.

... Now where is America's much-needed Death by Spin project??

The Competitive Enterprise Institute is pro-tobacco, pro-big 
business, anti-environment, anti-democratic, anti-people. Allied with 
all the usual suspects, heavily backed by all the usual suspects - 
Amoco, American Petroleum Institute, Ford Motor Company, Philip 
Morris, Pfizer, Texaco, Dow Chemical (heroes of Bhopal), General 
Motors, the Sarah Scaife Foundation and its various far-right 
lookalikes, etc etc etc. Full information here:
http://www.prwatch.org/improp/cei.html
Competitive Enterprise Institute

Best

Keith


**
If you want to take a look on a project
that is very close to my heart, go to:
http://energysavingnow.com/
http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card
http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me
http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site
**
A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to
how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world
being round that

Re: [biofuel] CNN and SUVs


On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:56:05 +0100, you wrote:

 
 Just looked at a CNN program about US oil dependence
 and SUVs. They interviewed a Catzman from the Institute
 of Competitive . I am in an age were I should avoid
 this kind of things, too high risk of inducing a heart attack.
 Where do they find these guys and on top of that, he
 probably have a hefty salary. Female prostitutes who earns
 a lot less, they throw in jail.
 
 Hakan

Here's one to brighten your day a little.  Even though they got turned down, I
think the fact that they made this ad and it'll probably get out 
there somewhere
is good:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/wed/news/news_1n8suvs.html

If you want to keep the article, you'll have to save it yourself.  My local
paper is pretty touchy about copyright.

Anyway, calling these drug-terrorism linking ads into question is wayy
overdue, and so is something which would at least draw a parallel 
with oil.  So,
I like seeing a discussion even if I don't agree with all of it.

I don't hate SUVs (I sometimes think that the modest-sized ones are just a way
for some to get back to a car with interior room that they want), 
but something
needs to be done to call into question and discussion where we are getting our
fuel and at what price, and what the future of this paradigm is.

I can mostly agree with this, MM, but I have absolutely NO sympathy 
for your ideas on where we are getting our fuel and at what price. 
The huge price is to the people of the Middle East, and the world, 
and there's worse to come, from the same culprits - led, first and 
foremost, by the US and its oil corporations, which have been 
twisting that whole region out of shape for generations in order to 
screw cheap oil out of it. Self-inflicted injury, that's all, and 
VERY minor by comparison - not (yet) severe enough to force the 
beneficiaries (wilfully blind American consumer energy wastrels) to 
look the facts in the face at last.

Meanwhile Israel hies itself off to the good old US in search of yet 
another $12 billion in aid, mostly weaponry, much of it no doubt to 
be used in terrorist acts against unarmed civilians, business as 
usual. That just doesn't figure in this cosy little where we get our 
oil from anti-OPEC equation, now does it? Israelis themselves are 
increasingly opposed to this, vehemently so, but you take no notice - 
they're wrong, that's that. Or, easier, simply fail to notice it.

Damn, now we've gotten into all this again. Maybe if you'd show a 
little pause before you keep on trundling out this severely one-sided 
stuff with such blithe assurance? Grumble grumble...

Keith



MM


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[biofuel] Re: bumper stickers for biofuel use?


On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:14:34 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

http://www.veggieavenger.com/store/propaganda.shtml

That is Bill's warez.

Dunno, there has to be something more out there.


#13 and 16 look ok, outside of the annoying (for these purposes, to me) URL.  8
and 9 also seem ok I guess.

It's something.  I mean, if you have a simple straightforward statement, then it
makes clear that your car is running on a renewable.  This is somewhat less
obvious with a diesel VW than with an EV1, so maybe it would be of value to
those who do it.  They go to a lot of trouble, some of them, to find or make
biofuels, and one might as well clue people in that the car is running something
special.  

With EVs, I know that folks learn a bit just by seeing the cars and realizing
that they exist and work better than has been presented in some forums.  If
you've ever driven an EV1 around a city, you know it's an eye-catcher and you'll
get some thumbs-up and such.  With biofueled cars, might as well make the most
of the chance to educate and market.

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Re: [biofuel] Re: bumper stickers for biofuel use?

2003-01-08 Thread girl mark


I've got another friend who's a grad student at University of California- 
Davis, studying something transportation-technology related (whatever the 
department there that Daniel Sperling (author of Future Drive) is a 
professor in) . My friend's current research project is that he gets use of 
a weird egg-car-looking EV and runs around talking to people on the street, 
researching their reactions to EV's. Weird.
Mark






With EVs, I know that folks learn a bit just by seeing the cars and realizing
that they exist and work better than has been presented in some forums.  If
you've ever driven an EV1 around a city, you know it's an eye-catcher and 
you'll
get some thumbs-up and such.  With biofueled cars, might as well make the most
of the chance to educate and market.

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

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Re: [biofuel] Smoke to get in Manila eyes, at least for a while