Re: [biofuel] Eliminating Truth
>Maybe your insight could help us to explain what makes George W. Bush tick? > >http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm Er, yes. Heh! These below might help too - both sent to me off-list by American list members, just to preclude a whole lot of silly yelling over "USA-bashing". The second especially, as Jennifer seems to think that a journalist somehow loses credibility by interviewing Saddam Hussein (and Osama bin Laden, in Robert Fisk's case), extremely strange view. Best Keith > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 5:57 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Eliminating Truth > > > lol..this is the most leftist BS i have ever seen, and quoting Robert Fisk, > is like quoting "The Globe" or "The National Enquierer" or "the > star"...mainstream media is actually IN the units fightingright on the > front lines! Isn't Robert Fisk the 1 who interviewed Saddam like he was > interviewing Mother Theresa?..and i used to think LArry King gave easy > interviews?...Where were questions like" So how manu of your own people have > you gassesd to death this month? ".. > > >Jennifer > >http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=21&ItemID=3346 >Eliminating Truth >The Development Of War Propaganda >by David Miller >March 28, 2003 http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,902793,00.html Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | The Saddam and George show The Saddam and George show Ignoring the fact that George Bush declined Saddam Hussein's challenge to a televised debate, Tim Dowling exclusively reveals what could have happened had they met Tuesday February 25, 2003 Tony Blair, moderator: Welcome to the first televised debate between George W Bush and Saddam Hussein, live from United Nations headquarters in New York. We will begin with a brief opening statement from each of you. Bush: First of all I would just like to welcome my evil friend to the UN, one of the great American institutions for the propulsion of freedom throughout the world. Saddam: Thank you, Great Satan. I hope that in today's debate we may find some common ground between the Iraqi people's commitment to peace and human progress and America's desire to destroy the Middle East. Bush: Do I answer that? Blair: No. The first question is quite simply this: do you have any links with al-Qaida? Bush: I do not. Blair: The question is for President Saddam. Saddam: As I told Mr Tony Benn clearly and simply, if I had links with al-Qaida and I enjoyed those links then I would not be ashamed to tell the world, but since I am ashamed to tell the world of this, it follows that I have no such links. Bush: Neither do I. Blair: The second question is for Mr Bush. Mr Bush, if America and Iraq were to go to war tomorrow, who would win? Bush: That's easy. America, right? Saddam: Even I knew that one. Bush: That's because the great United American States of America are on the side of rightliness and Americanity, against an evil Axis of Evil made up of Iraq, North Korea and... how many are in an axis? Three? Blair: I think you're allowed as many as you like. Bush: OK, Iraq, North Korea and France. Saddam: I will tell you frankly and directly that Iraq is not part of any Axis of Evil. Bush: Who am I thinking of then? Irania? Blair: Let's move on. Saddam, are you willing to destroy your stockpile of Samoud 2 missiles in accordance with UN weapons inspectors' orders? Saddam: I explain to you now that if Iraq possessed these so-called weapons, we would never destroy them, but since we do not have any such weapons, we are happy to comply, even though these non-existent weapons certainly do not exceed the proscribed range of 150 kms. I've tested them myself, and we don't have any. Blair: The final question is for George Bush. Mr President, is there any way that Saddam Hussein can avoid war, and what steps must he now take in order to reach a negotiated solution? Bush: Listen to me. It's very simple. First Saddam must compile 200% with the UN inspectorers, and I mean activated compilation, not passivist compilation. Second, he must disarm fully, in keeping with UN revelation 1441 and the next one coming, 1441B, which will require him to disarm even more fully that. Then he must destroy all Samoud missiles and any other weapons of mass destruction he is found, or not found, to be possessive of, without being asked. Finally, there is one more task he must perform, which I am not at liberty to revulge. And even that will not be enough. Blair: The translator would like to take your answer home with him and work on it over the weekend. Bush: Fine, but we require nothing less than total disarmature. Saddam: OK. Blair: Sorry, but I'm not sure that "disarmature" is a word. I defer to the UN Keeper of the Dictionary, Mr Richard Stilgoe. Stilgoe: Yes, you can have disarmature. It means, "the act
RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
Hi Darryl and all >"Jerry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > What is wrong with you people?? > >Good question. I think it is an over-indulged sense that I can make >the world a >better place. :-) And long may you suffer this no-doubt foolish delusion. Re Exxon Mobil - very good choice, nasty company (the world's largest publicly traded corporation), right in the thick of it all, and a lot of the work has already been done. >But I may have a candidate. Imperial Oil, aka Esso. 70% owned by >Exxon Mobil. >Hmmm... do I recall that Exxon Mobil officials had a closed door session with >PresBush before the Iraq invasion? Isn't this military incursion >focused on oil? >Added bonus - Esso has about the worst environmental record for oil >companies in >Canada. Still produces the highest sulphur gasoline in Ontario. Tie to Exxon >Valdez is just too easy, even for the gasoline-addicted crowd. > >So, should we target the tiger? Would a U.S. version of the same >boycott also be >effective? Is Exxon/Esso visible in the rest of the world? > >Do people believe that a 10% drop in retail sales would be noticed by the >ExxonMobil accounting department? Do people believe that this would >get mentioned >to Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell? > >More research required to establish the chain of connections to >ensure this is an >appropriate target. Your assistance is invited. Then onto tactics >- I already >have some ideas. Nothing illegal, just targeting the bottom line. >When is the >busiest time at gas stations? Exxon Valdez aside... >http://www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,738196,00.html >Dark heart of the American dream >It's the most polluted state in the planet's most powerful country. >Ed Vulliamy goes into George Bush's backyard to reveal how big oil >got in bed with big politics and the price paid by the little people >Sunday June 16, 2002 >The Observer >... 'You are looking at the biggest oil refinery in the world,' >indicates LaNell Anderson. She refers to the edifice that is the >3,000-acre Exxon Mobil plant at Baytown, near Houston, producer of >507,800 barrels a day. Here begins a story of both dynasty and >destiny, for it was on this spot in 1917 that the Bush family's oil >connection was forged - where the Humble Oil company, which struck >black gold in the Houston suburb of that name, took root, later to >become the Exxon behemoth. Humble's founder, William Stamps Farish, >went on to become president of Standard Oil. His daughter became a >friend of George Bush Sr and his grandson William Jr was taken in >'almost like family' (said Barbara Bush) while campaigning for >George Sr's entrĀe into Washington Senatorial politics in 1964. >Farish Jr claims to have been the first man to whom Bush Sr confided >his ambition to be president one day, and was last year named US >Ambassador to London... >http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=74 >The Nation >ExxonMobil-Sponsored Terrorism? >06/14/2002 @ 12:30am >Why are villagers in the Aceh province of Indonesia--or their >lawyers--worrying about contributions from Exxon Mobil to George W. >Bush and the Republicans? >http://www.oneworld.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi?root=1680&url=http%3A%2F%2F >www%2Eafricaaction%2Eorg%2Fdocs02%2Fadr0211a%2Ehtm >South Africa: Apartheid Debt & Reparations, 1 >021112 >A suit was filed today, November 12, in the New York Eastern >District Court against 8 banks and 12 other companies in six Western >countries for apartheid reparations, on behalf of the Khulumani >Support Group and individual "victims of state-sanctioned torture, >murder, rape, arbitrary detention, and inhumane treatment." >... 1.10 Exxon Mobil Corporation Turn up just about any ugly stone and you'll find them there. As to whether it's relevant, have a look at this, for starters: >http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=6128 >Iraq: US Army Depots Named After Oil Giants >By Neela Banerjee >New York Times >March 27, 2003 >The subtleties surrounding the sensitive role oil plays in the Iraqi >war may have eluded the United States Army. Deep in some newspaper >coverage yesterday was a report that the 101st Airborne Division had >named one central Iraq outpost Forward Operating Base Shell and >another Forward Operating Base Exxon. >... >... others involved in the oil industry say the Pentagon's >indifference to the names of the bases was poorly considered. "You >have this atmosphere of suspicion and apprehension now, and that's >just among your allies," Jan Stuart, head of research for global >energy futures at ABN Amro, the Dutch investment bank, said. "And in >this atmosphere, you call your own supply effort this. It's >mind-boggling the degree of insensitivity. There is little doubt the >Americans will win the war, but you have to wonder how people who >are so insensitive are going to win the peace." Exxon Mobil has taken a lot of bad publicity and boycotting in Britain and Europe, and it's
Re: [biofuel] Making Vegetable Oil
> Does anyone know of anywhere I can find information >on making vegetable oil itself? The process, etc > > Clarence Hi Clarence Two ways, pressure extraction and solvent extraction, usually using hexan - this is the commercial method, not for us. On pressure extraction, do a couple of archive searches, for "approtec" and for "bielenberg" - these are manual presses: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Lots more information here: Oilseed presses http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress There's more to it than just pressing though. Check these out: The Fats and Oils: a General View, by Carl L. Alsberg and Alonzo E. Taylor, 1928, Food Research Institute, Stanford University, California First in a series of five Fats and Oils Studies published in the 1920s by the Food Research Institute. Good overview of the subject written in layman's terms, covers nature and sources of fats and oils, properties, technology, production, international trade and more. Not very much has changed since then, it's just grown more complex. A clear and informative guide -- useful information for anyone making biodiesel or working with SVO. Full text online at the Biofuels Library. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/fatsoils/fatsoilsToC.html Oils -- King's American Dispensatory, by Harvey Wickes Felter, M.D., and John Uri Lloyd, Phr. M., Ph. D., 1898 http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic/kings/olea.html Chemical Reactions of Oil, Fat and Fat Based Products http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~fidel/creac/reac.html Food Fats and Oils (1994) -- online book (Acrobat file, 1.3Mb): http://www.iseo.org/foodfatsoils.pdf Minor Oil Crops, B.L. Axtell from research by R.M. Fairman, Intermediate Technology Development Group, Rugby, UK, FAO Agricultural Services Bulletin No. 94, Rome, 1992, ISBN 92-5-103128-2: Part I - Edible oils, Part II - Non-edible oils, Part III - Essential oils -- Full text online: http://www.fao.org/inpho/vlibrary/x0043e/x0043e00.htm Hope this helps. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Vegetable Oil
Thanks Steve, I'll check those out --- Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > www.oilpress.com > > www.uep.com.ua > > http://www.idrc.ca/library/document/091017/ > > plus many more. go to www.google.com and search for > "vegetable oil > expelling" > > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable > Technology: > http://www.green-trust.org > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Clarence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 5:31 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Making Vegetable Oil > > > > Does anyone know of anywhere I can find > information > > on making vegetable oil itself? The process, etc > > > > Clarence > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, > live on your desktop! > > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the > list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
Hi Murdoch > > >If you are using the on-line version of the AutoTrader (we have one here > >anyway), I find it helpful to use "diesel" as a keyword in the search to > >go through the candidates quickly. > > What link are you using? http://www.autotrader.ca Only in Canada. Pity. > > I am using this place: > > http://sandiego.traderpub.com/search.html > > It does not allow any kind of keyword search, that I have yet found. > It does allow choice of fuel, on the advanced search, but I am just > wondering if some vehicles are going un-noticed because the computer > doesn't know they are diesel powered. I found 8 used VW used diesel > cars for sale within 75 miles, which doesn't seem like a great number, out > of the vast numbers of regular cars they are also selling. But indeed, > most of them are newer, so the supply is there for newer cars. > Actually, I had a quick look at this site. On the advanced search page you can specify the fuel type, and diesel is an offered choice. Good hunting. Darryl McMahon Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
http://search.ebaymotors.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&sit eid=100&from=R8&s_partnerid=2&categorymap=6000&category0=6000&query=diesel&S ortProperty=MetaEndSort&ebaytag1=ebayreg Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "murdoch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States? > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:58:04 -0500, you wrote: > > >If you are using the on-line version of the AutoTrader (we have one here anyway), I > >find it helpful to use "diesel" as a keyword in the search to go through the > >candidates quickly. > > What link are you using? > > I am using this place: > > http://sandiego.traderpub.com/search.html > > It does not allow any kind of keyword search, that I have yet found. > It does allow choice of fuel, on the advanced search, but I am just > wondering if some vehicles are going un-noticed because the computer > doesn't know they are diesel powered. I found 8 used VW used diesel > cars for sale within 75 miles, which doesn't seem like a great number, > out of the vast numbers of regular cars they are also selling. But > indeed, most of them are newer, so the supply is there for newer cars. > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
www.traderonline.com truck trader auto trader equipment trader - Original Message - From: "murdoch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States? > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:58:04 -0500, you wrote: > > >If you are using the on-line version of the AutoTrader (we have one here anyway), I > >find it helpful to use "diesel" as a keyword in the search to go through the > >candidates quickly. > > What link are you using? > > I am using this place: > > http://sandiego.traderpub.com/search.html > > It does not allow any kind of keyword search, that I have yet found. > It does allow choice of fuel, on the advanced search, but I am just > wondering if some vehicles are going un-noticed because the computer > doesn't know they are diesel powered. I found 8 used VW used diesel > cars for sale within 75 miles, which doesn't seem like a great number, > out of the vast numbers of regular cars they are also selling. But > indeed, most of them are newer, so the supply is there for newer cars. > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
Try www.autotrader.com . Use "diesel" as a keyword. > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:58:04 -0500, you wrote: > > >If you are using the on-line version of the AutoTrader (we have one here anyway), I > >find it helpful to use "diesel" as a keyword in the search to go through the > >candidates quickly. > > What link are you using? > > I am using this place: > > http://sandiego.traderpub.com/search.html > > It does not allow any kind of keyword search, that I have yet found. > It does allow choice of fuel, on the advanced search, but I am just > wondering if some vehicles are going un-noticed because the computer > doesn't know they are diesel powered. I found 8 used VW used diesel > cars for sale within 75 miles, which doesn't seem like a great number, > out of the vast numbers of regular cars they are also selling. But > indeed, most of them are newer, so the supply is there for newer cars. > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
Try Mercedes diesels on ebay. You should be able to get a very nice one for under $7000. Craig > Anyone have any recommendations about buying a used diesel, so as to > implement biodiesel? My gasoline-powered car has been destroyed as it > sat parked at the side of the road by a woman who thought it was > important to look down at her new little dog as it distracted her in > her Ford F150. > > I am not asking if anyone has a car for sale, and probably don't realy > want to go there, just asking what models I should look under in the > auto trader. I'll look at a truck if I have to, but tend toward cars. > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:58:04 -0500, you wrote: >If you are using the on-line version of the AutoTrader (we have one here >anyway), I >find it helpful to use "diesel" as a keyword in the search to go through the >candidates quickly. What link are you using? I am using this place: http://sandiego.traderpub.com/search.html It does not allow any kind of keyword search, that I have yet found. It does allow choice of fuel, on the advanced search, but I am just wondering if some vehicles are going un-noticed because the computer doesn't know they are diesel powered. I found 8 used VW used diesel cars for sale within 75 miles, which doesn't seem like a great number, out of the vast numbers of regular cars they are also selling. But indeed, most of them are newer, so the supply is there for newer cars. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/YKLNcC/oEZFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Eliminating Truth
Maybe your insight could help us to explain what makes George W. Bush tick? http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 5:57 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Eliminating Truth lol..this is the most leftist BS i have ever seen, and quoting Robert Fisk, is like quoting "The Globe" or "The National Enquierer" or "the star"...mainstream media is actually IN the units fightingright on the front lines! Isn't Robert Fisk the 1 who interviewed Saddam like he was interviewing Mother Theresa?..and i used to think LArry King gave easy interviews?...Where were questions like" So how manu of your own people have you gassesd to death this month? ".. Jennifer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Tour de Sol: The Great American Green Transportation Festival
May 10-14, 2003 The 15th annual Tour de Sol: The Great American Green Transportation Festival Festivals in four communities: Burlington City, NJ (Saturday, May 10); Trenton, NJ (Monday, May 12); Philadelphia (Tuesday, May 13); Washington, DC (Wednesday, May 14). See and test-drive Earth-friendly transportation for the 21st Century at a fun free festival. Over 50 exhibits from bicycles to buses and more. Visit with vehicle manufacturers and owners. Talk with hundreds of students and visionaries about their one-of-a-kind Earth-friendly concept vehicles competing in the Tour de Sol championship for reduced oil dependence and national security, and clean air for the nation. For festival hours, directions and more visit www.TourdeSol.org. FOR RELEASE: ImmediateCONTACTS: Jack Groh (401)732-1551 January 23, 2003Nancy Hazard (413)774-6051 ext 18 GREEN CAR FESTIVAL COMING TO PHILADELPHIA, TRENTON, AND WASHINGTON TOUR DE SOL OPENS COMPETITION TO ALL ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLES GREENFIELD, Mass. - If it decreases Americans' use of gasoline or oil, you' ll see it at the 2003 Tour de Sol: The Great American Green Transportation Festival. Cars, buses, and scooters that sip gas, or use an alternative fuel such as biodiesel, electricity, hydrogen, natural gas, or propane will be coming to Philadelphia, Trenton, and Washington, DC next May. "The need to decrease our dependency on foreign oil and to reduce greenhouse gases is more important than ever before," said Nancy Hazard, director of the Tour de Sol. "Fortunately, the number and type of cars and buses that use domestically-produced environmentally-friendly fuels is increasing rapidly. Owners of new gas-sipping hybrid vehicles are reportedly very happy with their new cars and new electric scooters and neighborhood vehicles are offering new ways of getting around. This year's Tour de Sol will showcase all these options." The Tour de Sol began in 1989 as a competition for solar-powered racing vehicles. Over the years, it has expanded into the largest over-the-road event in the country for an ever-growing variety of "greener" vehicle technologies. The 2003 Tour de Sol runs from May 10-14. Festivals, free and open to the public, will be held in Philadelphia, Burlington City and Trenton, NJ, and Washington, DC. The festivals will showcase new green vehicles and other green consumer products, programs, and services. The festivals are connected by a road rally competition open to all types of greener vehicles. Entrants include individuals, companies, and schools and include everything from one-of-a-kind prototypes to vehicles that are already available on the market. The annual Tour de Sol: The Great American Green Transportation Festival is organized by the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA), the nation's leading regional association involved in promoting awareness, understanding, and development of non-polluting, renewable energy technologies. Headquartered in Greenfield, Massachusetts, NESEA has worked successfully in the fields of transportation, building construction and renewable energy for over 28 years. For more information on the Tour de Sol festivals, greener vehicles, school field trip opportunities, free educational resources, and volunteer opportunities go to www.nesea.org or call 413-774-6051. # ## Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ZKLNcC/pEZFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Tour de Sol: The Great American Green Transportation Festival
May 10-14, 2003 The 15th annual Tour de Sol: The Great American Green Transportation Festival Festivals in four communities: Burlington City, NJ (Saturday, May 10); Trenton, NJ (Monday, May 12); Philadelphia (Tuesday, May 13); Washington, DC (Wednesday, May 14). See and test-drive Earth-friendly transportation for the 21st Century at a fun free festival. Over 50 exhibits from bicycles to buses and more. Visit with vehicle manufacturers and owners. Talk with hundreds of students and visionaries about their one-of-a-kind Earth-friendly concept vehicles competing in the Tour de Sol championship for reduced oil dependence and national security, and clean air for the nation. For festival hours, directions and more visit www.TourdeSol.org. FOR RELEASE: ImmediateCONTACTS: Jack Groh (401)732-1551 January 23, 2003Nancy Hazard (413)774-6051 ext 18 GREEN CAR FESTIVAL COMING TO PHILADELPHIA, TRENTON, AND WASHINGTON TOUR DE SOL OPENS COMPETITION TO ALL ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLES GREENFIELD, Mass. - If it decreases Americans' use of gasoline or oil, you' ll see it at the 2003 Tour de Sol: The Great American Green Transportation Festival. Cars, buses, and scooters that sip gas, or use an alternative fuel such as biodiesel, electricity, hydrogen, natural gas, or propane will be coming to Philadelphia, Trenton, and Washington, DC next May. "The need to decrease our dependency on foreign oil and to reduce greenhouse gases is more important than ever before," said Nancy Hazard, director of the Tour de Sol. "Fortunately, the number and type of cars and buses that use domestically-produced environmentally-friendly fuels is increasing rapidly. Owners of new gas-sipping hybrid vehicles are reportedly very happy with their new cars and new electric scooters and neighborhood vehicles are offering new ways of getting around. This year's Tour de Sol will showcase all these options." The Tour de Sol began in 1989 as a competition for solar-powered racing vehicles. Over the years, it has expanded into the largest over-the-road event in the country for an ever-growing variety of "greener" vehicle technologies. The 2003 Tour de Sol runs from May 10-14. Festivals, free and open to the public, will be held in Philadelphia, Burlington City and Trenton, NJ, and Washington, DC. The festivals will showcase new green vehicles and other green consumer products, programs, and services. The festivals are connected by a road rally competition open to all types of greener vehicles. Entrants include individuals, companies, and schools and include everything from one-of-a-kind prototypes to vehicles that are already available on the market. The annual Tour de Sol: The Great American Green Transportation Festival is organized by the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA), the nation's leading regional association involved in promoting awareness, understanding, and development of non-polluting, renewable energy technologies. Headquartered in Greenfield, Massachusetts, NESEA has worked successfully in the fields of transportation, building construction and renewable energy for over 28 years. For more information on the Tour de Sol festivals, greener vehicles, school field trip opportunities, free educational resources, and volunteer opportunities go to www.nesea.org or call 413-774-6051. # ## Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Global Warming - CO2 from coal, gasoline, diesel fuel
> Martin wrote: >> > I don't mean to call whoever a lier, but if you only have one pound of >> > coal to begin with you can't get 3 pounds of CO2 out of it. Conservation >> > of mass comes to mind. You can get more than one pound (mass) of CO2 out of it because you are adding mass (The O2 part) from an outside system. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
If you are using the on-line version of the AutoTrader (we have one here anyway), I find it helpful to use "diesel" as a keyword in the search to go through the candidates quickly. Darryl McMahon To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date sent: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:04:05 -0800 Subject:Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States? Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Thanks the list of specific models is helpful. When I go through the auto > trader online it's hard because most of those models have gasoline > versions, so I have to figure out how to bring out the diesels to look at > on the computer. You can specify fuel, but I'm not sure this doesn't weed > out some of them where the engine type might be listed elsewhere. > > > > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_UScars.html > >Diesels in the US > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
"Jerry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What is wrong with you people?? Good question. I think it is an over-indulged sense that I can make the world a better place. > You really think that a boycott would make > any difference?? Yes. They have worked before. The trick is to establish a strategy, target effectively and prosecute with vigor. (Sounds so military, don't you think?) > The economy is gone to hell now, and you want to boycott > American products and or business!! Specific aspects of the American economy are the target. If it is somewhat vulnerable, then it is time to press our advantage. > Seems to me that you are trying to > shoot yourself in the foot, with all this boycott stuff. I really don't > care;I'm retired and do not relay on a job or the economy, but you > knotheads had better wake up!!! The people in charge are going to do what > ever it takes to line their pockets(oil) and you can't do a damn thing > about it, and not buying McDonalds(meat shipped in from another country) > and or K-mart(made in China) is not going to hurt anyone in those > countries, only the poor working slob here in america... Agreed. We will attempt to limit the collateral damage. > Good Luck I > do admire your basic idea. Thanks, we'll need it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > What about McDonalds/Budweiser/Texaco/Miller? > That's the spirit! McDonalds Canada seems a poor target. As I understand it, most of the restaurants are operated by local business people as separate corporations, and employ mostly some of our most vulnerable working poor. Shooting the foot, as Jerry put it. Budweiser in Canada is actually brewed by a Canadian brewer - Labatt's. So, again, looks like a poor target. Texaco no longer exists in Canada. It was bought out by our hulkingly ineffective national oil company, Petro-Canada. Miller, looks like Labatt's again, same for Coors. But I may have a candidate. Imperial Oil, aka Esso. 70% owned by Exxon Mobil. Hmmm... do I recall that Exxon Mobil officials had a closed door session with PresBush before the Iraq invasion? Isn't this military incursion focused on oil? Added bonus - Esso has about the worst environmental record for oil companies in Canada. Still produces the highest sulphur gasoline in Ontario. Tie to Exxon Valdez is just too easy, even for the gasoline-addicted crowd. So, should we target the tiger? Would a U.S. version of the same boycott also be effective? Is Exxon/Esso visible in the rest of the world? Do people believe that a 10% drop in retail sales would be noticed by the ExxonMobil accounting department? Do people believe that this would get mentioned to Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell? More research required to establish the chain of connections to ensure this is an appropriate target. Your assistance is invited. Then onto tactics - I already have some ideas. Nothing illegal, just targeting the bottom line. When is the busiest time at gas stations? Off to brew another research litre of BD from WVO. Darryl Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
On boycotting...simply recommendationto do your best, just keep making biofuel and promote education on renewable, sustainable energies. You will be directly and indirectly cutting financial support for the fossil and nuclear fuel industries that have a strangle hold on many people. Boycotting McD's in Germany or anywhere else is silly since they are usually locally owned, supplied and operated. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] carfax.com
I might add, to my recent post about my car, that carfax.com has proved to be a good website for research my own and others' vehicles. $20 gets you 60 days' access or something. I'd also like to add that when one looks at TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) of cars, we advocates of various technologies, solutions, philosophies, etc., have perhaps somewhat failed to summarize or partly integrate our various findings. Much of my focus on EVs, hybrids, etc., for example, is based on a fundamental belief in fighting for the value of lowering costs of owernship and *defining* the costs of ownership. There are so many aspects of vehicle ownership that cost a little or a lot, in money or something harder to quantify. I always knew, from the moment I bit the bullet and transitioned from public transportation to vehicle ownership, that the entire matter is in some ways a big giant scam that the little guy, over time, will lose money on, more money than he thinks. This was brought home to me this week, for the umpteenth time when I filed my first ever car insurance claim, where there was obviously no liability argument, and my own company (with whom I've never missed a payment) took its sweet time to get to me, only to blow me off with a lowball offer. An aside is that I remember watching game shows when I was a kid. We all knew the rough dollar-value of a car because they gave them away on various game shows and trumpeted the dollar value. But it seemed to me that we transitioned from the dollar value of many vehicles being something that you could afford to pay in a half year or year, in cash money, to being a value that you'd make payments on for five or ten years. What's that all about? When that happened, I knew that something was awry. Folks talked of "owning" cars but no longer seemed-to. I've never made payments on a car and I'm not going to now, although I would if I had to. Let some other joker "buy" the car and throw the first two years' of sticker price out the window and then I'll worry about if it comes down to "real money" price range. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
Thanks the list of specific models is helpful. When I go through the auto trader online it's hard because most of those models have gasoline versions, so I have to figure out how to bring out the diesels to look at on the computer. You can specify fuel, but I'm not sure this doesn't weed out some of them where the engine type might be listed elsewhere. >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_UScars.html >Diesels in the US Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] at only 4% of EV system cost
How many vehicles are involved in transport of refrigerated items? This would be good to know. In India and other warm places the airconditioning load may provide enough heated gas for up to 30mph. -Original Message- From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 9:50 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] at only 4% of EV system cost http://www.aa.washington.edu:80/AERP/CRYOCAR/CryoCar.htm On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 08:36 AM, kirk wrote: > Last page(6) top left C. A. Ordez in Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 3/25/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
>Anyone have any recommendations about buying a used diesel, so as to >implement biodiesel? My gasoline-powered car has been destroyed as it >sat parked at the side of the road by a woman who thought it was >important to look down at her new little dog as it distracted her in >her Ford F150. > >I am not asking if anyone has a car for sale, and probably don't realy >want to go there, just asking what models I should look under in the >auto trader. I'll look at a truck if I have to, but tend toward cars. What a sad tale MM. Maybe you can sue the dog too as an accessory. These days. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_UScars.html Diesels in the US Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] at only 4% of EV system cost
http://www.aa.washington.edu:80/AERP/CRYOCAR/CryoCar.htm On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 08:36 AM, kirk wrote: > Last page(6) top left C. A. Ordez in Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Global Warming - CO2 from coal, gasoline, diesel fuel
Martin wrote: > > I don't mean to call whoever a lier, but if you only have one pound of > > coal to begin with you can't get 3 pounds of CO2 out of it. Conservation > > of mass comes to mind. I wrote: > Martin what did you mean? 8^} Hi Martin, Thanks for questioning! I looked up Form EIA-1605, Voluntary Reporting of Greenhouse Gases, Instructions, 2002, Appendices B and C. [page 51,52] 74 page, 1.8MB PDF ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oiaf/1605/cdrom/pdf/1605INST02.pdf after doing the math -- Coal CL Anthracite AC 3,852.16 lbs per short ton (2000 lbs) [3852.16/2000 = 1.926 lbs. CO2 per pound of fuel] 1.926 lbs. CO2 per pound of fuel Bituminous BC 4,931.30 lbs per short ton 2.465 lbs CO2 per pound of fuel Subbituminous SB 3,715.90 lbs per short ton 1.858 lbs CO2 per pound of fuel Lignite LC 2,791.60 lbs per short ton 1.396 lbs CO2 per pound of fuel Motor Gasoline MG 19.564 lbs per US gallon [20/6 = 3.333 lbs CO2 per pound of fuel] 3.333 lbs CO2 per pound of fuel Distillate Fuel (No. 1, No. 2, No.4 Fuel Oil and Diesel) DF 22.384 lbs per US gallon [22.4/7 = 3.2 lbs CO2 per pound of fuel] 3.2 lbs CO2 per pound of fuel _ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] some energy fundamentals
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] at only 4% of EV system cost
Last page(6) top left C. A. Ordez in American Journal of Physics #64v4 April 96 p479-481 http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse117.pdf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
So what you advocate is avarice and conspicuous consumption in order to keep "poor working slob[s] ... in america" employed? Doesn't matter if that conspicuous consumption promotes exploitation of other people and resources? So everyone should "go out and shop," at least according to the gospel of G.W. Bush - just ignore the reality that unfolds around us? For those who have failed to take notice, it is the excessive consumption revolution that has brought us to a point where control of resources become national security issues, with maintenance of "jobs" and "preserving the American lifestyle" taking precedence over any humanity external to America or the environment across the board. So who is it that really needs to wake up? Those that promote the fast trip to nowheresville or those who propose putting on the brakes to the same destination? Sure, a boycott using US economic/war policy as the justification is not the same as a boycott predicated directly upon conspicuous consumption. But the end result is similar - a reduction in consumption (and yes, a reduction in production). It's about time that western civilization realized that it's time for a correction in the collective mindset - that we don't have the right to covet hundreds of times more possessions, materials and resources when hundreds of millions don't have enough to survive on and billions don't have much more. Sorry. But a wide screen T.V. in every pot is not going to make the world a better place. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Jerry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 4:06 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum > What is wrong with you people?? You really think that a boycott would make > any difference?? > The economy is gone to hell now, and you want to boycott American products > and or business!! > Seems to me that you are trying to shoot yourself in the foot, with all this > boycott stuff. > I really don't care;I'm retired and do not relay on a job or the economy, > but you knotheads had better wake up!!! > The people in charge are going to do what ever it takes to line their > pockets(oil) and you can't do a damn thing about it, > and not buying McDonalds(meat shipped in from another country) and or > K-mart(made in China) is not going to > hurt anyone in those countries, only the poor working slob here in > america... > Good Luck > I do admire your basic idea. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 6:15 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains > Momentum > > > Hi Darryl, > > What about McDonalds/Budweiser/Texaco/Miller? > > dD > > biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > < > < The boycotts cut both ways. > < > < > However, if one wants to send a > < financial message to the U.S. and British administrations, are there > any target > < products that would be particularly effective if boycotted? > < > < Darryl McMahon > < > < > < > < Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > < http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > < > < Biofuels list archives: > < http://archive.nnytech.net/ > < > < Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > < To unsubscribe, send an email to: > < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > < > < Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > < > < > < > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
cars: vw TDI's, mercedes, trucks: gm, for, dodge small trucks: nissan, mazda Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "murdoch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:46 AM Subject: [biofuel] diesel cars in the United States? > Anyone have any recommendations about buying a used diesel, so as to > implement biodiesel? My gasoline-powered car has been destroyed as it > sat parked at the side of the road by a woman who thought it was > important to look down at her new little dog as it distracted her in > her Ford F150. > > I am not asking if anyone has a car for sale, and probably don't realy > want to go there, just asking what models I should look under in the > auto trader. I'll look at a truck if I have to, but tend toward cars. > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] diesel cars in the United States?
Anyone have any recommendations about buying a used diesel, so as to implement biodiesel? My gasoline-powered car has been destroyed as it sat parked at the side of the road by a woman who thought it was important to look down at her new little dog as it distracted her in her Ford F150. I am not asking if anyone has a car for sale, and probably don't realy want to go there, just asking what models I should look under in the auto trader. I'll look at a truck if I have to, but tend toward cars. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators
when generating island your property. That is proper and lawful. Just connect back to the grid for small nightime loads or when you are away. SInce someone is going to get electrocuted someday from improperly designed hookups legislation has been passed in some states for mandatory jail time in these potential manslaughter cases. They are going to make some examples I think. Kirk -Original Message- From: eric12856 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:23 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators Yes it is not legal, but the solar guys in Home Power magazine have nothing but grief from the utilities... too many barriers to net- metering even though they are required to let you inter-tie by law. So they do whats called "Guerrilla Solar" and inter-tie anyway. So was was thinking of going "Guerrilla Biodiesel" cause I don't want to invest in an inverter$$$ and batteries$$$. I figure an induction motor inter-tie with some anti "islanding" circuit would be safe. Sounds like there a number of people doing it with hydro. But I can't seem to find an anti "islanding" circuit. My plan is to only run the generator when I'm home and only for a couple of hours on weekends to heat the house in winter, heat the pools in summer and offset both gas and electric. BTW, I live in north Jersey and my utility bill this winter was staggering! Eric Olsen --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is not legal in the USA. You must use approved grid tie equipment. > > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > http://www.green-trust.org > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Ken Basterfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:34 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > > > > Martin the is nothing technical to stop you using your alternator as it is > > to feed back into the main supply. All you need to do is synchronise the > > alternator output with the mains and then close the switch to couple the > > two. You will have to common the neutrals. A lamp connected between > mains > > phase and alternator phase is all that is required. As the engine speed is > > slowly increased, the the lamp will begin to beat slowly on and off as > the > > alternator phase signal slowly slips past the mains phase. When the lamp > > goes out the two signals are in phase and can be connected together. I.e. > > you close the switch. henceforth the alternator will be sychronised to the > > mains and if you increase the Diesel engine throttle, power will be fed to > > the mains supply. The lamp will have to be double voltage to avoid blowing > > it. A 240 volt lamp when connecting 110 systems or two 240 lamps in series > > if running off 240 volt systems. > > > > Don't throw out the alternator just to fit an induction motor unless your > > alternator has specific instructions from the manufactor saying that you > are > > not allowed to connect it to the mains. > > > > This same system of synchronising using beating lamps can be applied to 3 > > phase alternators, just connect 3 lamps between each of the respective 3 > > phases- Original Message - > > Ken > > > > From: "martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:10 AM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > > > > > > > Your induction generator will continue to function if it isn't > > > overloaded. If the power goes out, the induction generator will either > > > become overloaded and stop generating, or continue to run while > > > back-feeding the power lines. As soon as you notice that the power is > > > out you should throw your main breaker or shut off the generator. If you > > > intend to spin your meter backwards anyway, I'm really not sure if one > > > of the automatic switches would work for you. > > > > > > eric12856 wrote: > > > > > > >Lot of smart guys in this group so I figure someone can answer my > > > >question that I think may have a simple answer, but first > > > >some background. > > > > > > > >I have a 5hp Biodiesel generator set that I also extract heat (from > > > >coolant and exhaust to heat the house). Now that I've moved into a > > > >new house (my heating and electric was $450/month!!)I was thinking of > > > >swapping out the generator head for an induction motor so that I can > > > >intertie with the utility and use the utility as a battery and > > > >supplemental power. > > > > > > > >I know that if the utility goes out that It will produce no > > > >electricity since the motor needs the field windings excited to > > > >produce. Thats ok, the generator head will be moved to small gas > > > >engine as backup. > > > > > > > >My question: > > > >For safety reasons, I would like to stop the Diesel engine when the > > > >utility goes off. Anyone know how I can accomplish the shutdown or
Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators
No, the homepower guys use approved grid tie equipment, anything else puts linemen at risk. They don't always inform the utility, but they use safe equipment. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "eric12856" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:22 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > Yes it is not legal, but the solar guys in Home Power magazine have > nothing but grief from the utilities... too many barriers to net- > metering even though they are required to let you inter-tie by law. > So they do whats called "Guerrilla Solar" and inter-tie anyway. > > So was was thinking of going "Guerrilla Biodiesel" cause I don't want > to invest in an inverter$$$ and batteries$$$. I figure an induction > motor inter-tie with some anti "islanding" circuit would be safe. > > Sounds like there a number of people doing it with hydro. But I can't > seem to find an anti "islanding" circuit. > > My plan is to only run the generator when I'm home and only for a > couple of hours on weekends to heat the house in winter, heat the > pools in summer and offset both gas and electric. > > BTW, I live in north Jersey and my utility bill this winter was > staggering! > > Eric Olsen > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is not legal in the USA. You must use approved grid tie > equipment. > > > > > > Steve Spence > > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > > & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > > http://www.green-trust.org > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - Original Message - > > From: "Ken Basterfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > > > > > > > Martin the is nothing technical to stop you using your alternator > as it is > > > to feed back into the main supply. All you need to do is > synchronise the > > > alternator output with the mains and then close the switch to > couple the > > > two. You will have to common the neutrals. A lamp connected > between > > mains > > > phase and alternator phase is all that is required. As the engine > speed is > > > slowly increased, the the lamp will begin to beat slowly on and > off as > > the > > > alternator phase signal slowly slips past the mains phase. When > the lamp > > > goes out the two signals are in phase and can be connected > together. I.e. > > > you close the switch. henceforth the alternator will be > sychronised to the > > > mains and if you increase the Diesel engine throttle, power will > be fed to > > > the mains supply. The lamp will have to be double voltage to > avoid blowing > > > it. A 240 volt lamp when connecting 110 systems or two 240 lamps > in series > > > if running off 240 volt systems. > > > > > > Don't throw out the alternator just to fit an induction motor > unless your > > > alternator has specific instructions from the manufactor saying > that you > > are > > > not allowed to connect it to the mains. > > > > > > This same system of synchronising using beating lamps can be > applied to 3 > > > phase alternators, just connect 3 lamps between each of the > respective 3 > > > phases- Original Message - > > > Ken > > > > > > From: "martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:10 AM > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > > > > > > > > > > Your induction generator will continue to function if it isn't > > > > overloaded. If the power goes out, the induction generator will > either > > > > become overloaded and stop generating, or continue to run while > > > > back-feeding the power lines. As soon as you notice that the > power is > > > > out you should throw your main breaker or shut off the > generator. If you > > > > intend to spin your meter backwards anyway, I'm really not sure > if one > > > > of the automatic switches would work for you. > > > > > > > > eric12856 wrote: > > > > > > > > >Lot of smart guys in this group so I figure someone can answer > my > > > > >question that I think may have a simple answer, but first > > > > >some background. > > > > > > > > > >I have a 5hp Biodiesel generator set that I also extract heat > (from > > > > >coolant and exhaust to heat the house). Now that I've moved > into a > > > > >new house (my heating and electric was $450/month!!)I was > thinking of > > > > >swapping out the generator head for an induction motor so that > I can > > > > >intertie with the utility and use the utility as a battery and > > > > >supplemental power. > > > > > > > > > >I know that if the utility goes out that It will produce no > > > > >electricity since the motor needs the field windings excited to > > > > >produce. Thats ok, the generator head will be moved to small > gas > > > > >engine as backup. > > > > > > > > > >My questio
[biofuel] Re: Electric generators
Yes it is not legal, but the solar guys in Home Power magazine have nothing but grief from the utilities... too many barriers to net- metering even though they are required to let you inter-tie by law. So they do whats called "Guerrilla Solar" and inter-tie anyway. So was was thinking of going "Guerrilla Biodiesel" cause I don't want to invest in an inverter$$$ and batteries$$$. I figure an induction motor inter-tie with some anti "islanding" circuit would be safe. Sounds like there a number of people doing it with hydro. But I can't seem to find an anti "islanding" circuit. My plan is to only run the generator when I'm home and only for a couple of hours on weekends to heat the house in winter, heat the pools in summer and offset both gas and electric. BTW, I live in north Jersey and my utility bill this winter was staggering! Eric Olsen --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is not legal in the USA. You must use approved grid tie equipment. > > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > http://www.green-trust.org > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Ken Basterfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:34 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > > > > Martin the is nothing technical to stop you using your alternator as it is > > to feed back into the main supply. All you need to do is synchronise the > > alternator output with the mains and then close the switch to couple the > > two. You will have to common the neutrals. A lamp connected between > mains > > phase and alternator phase is all that is required. As the engine speed is > > slowly increased, the the lamp will begin to beat slowly on and off as > the > > alternator phase signal slowly slips past the mains phase. When the lamp > > goes out the two signals are in phase and can be connected together. I.e. > > you close the switch. henceforth the alternator will be sychronised to the > > mains and if you increase the Diesel engine throttle, power will be fed to > > the mains supply. The lamp will have to be double voltage to avoid blowing > > it. A 240 volt lamp when connecting 110 systems or two 240 lamps in series > > if running off 240 volt systems. > > > > Don't throw out the alternator just to fit an induction motor unless your > > alternator has specific instructions from the manufactor saying that you > are > > not allowed to connect it to the mains. > > > > This same system of synchronising using beating lamps can be applied to 3 > > phase alternators, just connect 3 lamps between each of the respective 3 > > phases- Original Message - > > Ken > > > > From: "martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:10 AM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > > > > > > > Your induction generator will continue to function if it isn't > > > overloaded. If the power goes out, the induction generator will either > > > become overloaded and stop generating, or continue to run while > > > back-feeding the power lines. As soon as you notice that the power is > > > out you should throw your main breaker or shut off the generator. If you > > > intend to spin your meter backwards anyway, I'm really not sure if one > > > of the automatic switches would work for you. > > > > > > eric12856 wrote: > > > > > > >Lot of smart guys in this group so I figure someone can answer my > > > >question that I think may have a simple answer, but first > > > >some background. > > > > > > > >I have a 5hp Biodiesel generator set that I also extract heat (from > > > >coolant and exhaust to heat the house). Now that I've moved into a > > > >new house (my heating and electric was $450/month!!)I was thinking of > > > >swapping out the generator head for an induction motor so that I can > > > >intertie with the utility and use the utility as a battery and > > > >supplemental power. > > > > > > > >I know that if the utility goes out that It will produce no > > > >electricity since the motor needs the field windings excited to > > > >produce. Thats ok, the generator head will be moved to small gas > > > >engine as backup. > > > > > > > >My question: > > > >For safety reasons, I would like to stop the Diesel engine when the > > > >utility goes off. Anyone know how I can accomplish the shutdown or > > > >where I can find a schematic so I can build my own? The engine has a > > > >built-in 12 volt shutdown solenoid. Would a simple relay off the main > > > >breaker suffice? > > > > > > > >Thanks! > > > >Eric Olsen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > --- > > > Martin Klingensmith > > > http://nnytech.net/ > > > http://infoarchive.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuel
RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
Jerry, I think you misunderstood it, it is in foreign countries that a movement is growing now to boycott American companies/products. It is a reaction on the unjust war and maybe the pictures of Americans emptying fine French wine in the gutter, a waste that is criminal. If anyone want to get rid of good French wine, please send it to me. But I think that the parents to those who did it, are angry now and are stocking up again. I talked to young people in Spain, Germany and Sweden and they want to boycott what they see as American interests. Not always smart, but a healthy reaction on something that they see as unjust war. They do not trust the altruistic songs from Bush & Co. It is expected that the PP party in Spain will loose a lot of votes on this. Although Bush get a lot of support for the war in the polls, a majority says that they would not vote for him again. So he stand a far chance of joining his father in being one of the very few presidents who lost a reelection. The support for Blair show a similar tendency. Boycotts are sometimes efficient, but I agree that it very seldom hurts the ones that they are aimed for. Look at the US led UN boycott against Iraq and the hundreds of thousands of children who died because of it. Personally I think that McDonalds is a part of the US chemical warfare and since I do not eat their stuff, I cannot boycott them. Maybe we will get some healthier youngsters as a result of the war and that is positive. I stopped to drink Coca Cola, but that was for health reasons also. I have a similar thing with French Fries (Freedom Fries, LOL), stopped eating that too, because if you do a chemical analysis, they are very easy mistaken for paper products. Jerry, we are both retired and have to think about our health. Hakan At 04:06 AM 3/29/2003 -0500, you wrote: >What is wrong with you people?? You really think that a boycott would make >any difference?? >The economy is gone to hell now, and you want to boycott American products >and or business!! >Seems to me that you are trying to shoot yourself in the foot, with all this >boycott stuff. >I really don't care;I'm retired and do not relay on a job or the economy, >but you knotheads had better wake up!!! >The people in charge are going to do what ever it takes to line their >pockets(oil) and you can't do a damn thing about it, >and not buying McDonalds(meat shipped in from another country) and or >K-mart(made in China) is not going to >hurt anyone in those countries, only the poor working slob here in >america... >Good Luck >I do admire your basic idea. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 6:15 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains >Momentum > > > Hi Darryl, > > What about McDonalds/Budweiser/Texaco/Miller? > > dD > > biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > < > < The boycotts cut both ways. > < > < > However, if one wants to send a > < financial message to the U.S. and British administrations, are there >any target > < products that would be particularly effective if boycotted? > < > < Darryl McMahon > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators
This is not legal in the USA. You must use approved grid tie equipment. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Ken Basterfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > Martin the is nothing technical to stop you using your alternator as it is > to feed back into the main supply. All you need to do is synchronise the > alternator output with the mains and then close the switch to couple the > two. You will have to common the neutrals. A lamp connected between mains > phase and alternator phase is all that is required. As the engine speed is > slowly increased, the the lamp will begin to beat slowly on and off as the > alternator phase signal slowly slips past the mains phase. When the lamp > goes out the two signals are in phase and can be connected together. I.e. > you close the switch. henceforth the alternator will be sychronised to the > mains and if you increase the Diesel engine throttle, power will be fed to > the mains supply. The lamp will have to be double voltage to avoid blowing > it. A 240 volt lamp when connecting 110 systems or two 240 lamps in series > if running off 240 volt systems. > > Don't throw out the alternator just to fit an induction motor unless your > alternator has specific instructions from the manufactor saying that you are > not allowed to connect it to the mains. > > This same system of synchronising using beating lamps can be applied to 3 > phase alternators, just connect 3 lamps between each of the respective 3 > phases- Original Message - > Ken > > From: "martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:10 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > > > > Your induction generator will continue to function if it isn't > > overloaded. If the power goes out, the induction generator will either > > become overloaded and stop generating, or continue to run while > > back-feeding the power lines. As soon as you notice that the power is > > out you should throw your main breaker or shut off the generator. If you > > intend to spin your meter backwards anyway, I'm really not sure if one > > of the automatic switches would work for you. > > > > eric12856 wrote: > > > > >Lot of smart guys in this group so I figure someone can answer my > > >question that I think may have a simple answer, but first > > >some background. > > > > > >I have a 5hp Biodiesel generator set that I also extract heat (from > > >coolant and exhaust to heat the house). Now that I've moved into a > > >new house (my heating and electric was $450/month!!)I was thinking of > > >swapping out the generator head for an induction motor so that I can > > >intertie with the utility and use the utility as a battery and > > >supplemental power. > > > > > >I know that if the utility goes out that It will produce no > > >electricity since the motor needs the field windings excited to > > >produce. Thats ok, the generator head will be moved to small gas > > >engine as backup. > > > > > >My question: > > >For safety reasons, I would like to stop the Diesel engine when the > > >utility goes off. Anyone know how I can accomplish the shutdown or > > >where I can find a schematic so I can build my own? The engine has a > > >built-in 12 volt shutdown solenoid. Would a simple relay off the main > > >breaker suffice? > > > > > >Thanks! > > >Eric Olsen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > --- > > Martin Klingensmith > > http://nnytech.net/ > > http://infoarchive.net/ > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/term
Re: [biofuel] biodiesel and diesel?
only if heated first. see http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/yohn for procedures on how to do it. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "brian_moretti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 3:00 PM Subject: [biofuel] biodiesel and diesel? > i was wondering if a person could use SVO without modifying their > engine if they were to periodically use petrodiesel to clean out the > engine. i know very little about this subject and i would be very > thankful if anyone would be able to help me. > thanks, > brian > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Vegetable Oil
www.oilpress.com www.uep.com.ua http://www.idrc.ca/library/document/091017/ plus many more. go to www.google.com and search for "vegetable oil expelling" Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Clarence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 5:31 PM Subject: [biofuel] Making Vegetable Oil > Does anyone know of anywhere I can find information > on making vegetable oil itself? The process, etc > > Clarence > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Eliminating Truth
>lol..this is the most leftist BS i have ever seen, and quoting Robert Fisk, >is like quoting "The Globe" or "The National Enquierer" or "the >star"...mainstream media is actually IN the units fightingright on the >front lines! Isn't Robert Fisk the 1 who interviewed Saddam like he was >interviewing Mother Theresa?..and i used to think LArry King gave easy >interviews?...Where were questions like" So how manu of your own people have >you gassesd to death this month? ".. > > Jennifer Well, Captain Jennifer, I know it helps to label something if you want to dismiss it out of hand without reading any further, or at least without comprehending any further, or maybe without comprehending at all. But I think Robert might manage to struggle along somehow anyway, despite your burden of labels. (John Malkevitch wanted to kill him.) Robert Fisk is amongst the finest journalists working today, and unquestionably the doyen of Middle East correspondents. Let's put it this way: there is no American equivalent, no journalist covering that beat for the American media with anything like Robert's credibility. The National Enquirer is not in any way comparable to Robert's paper, The Independent, which is one of the most authoritative newspapers in the world. As for you... >interviews?...Where were questions like" So how manu of your own people have >you gassesd to death this month? ".. Why don't you ask yourself that question, of how many of his own people Saddam Hussein gassed this month? Try to drop your prejudices for once and really find out the truth of just this one matter. I suggest you equip yourself first with a largish crowbar to try to prise your mind open just a chick. Here's how to go about it: do an archive search for "Halabja" (without the quotes). http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel You'll find lots of solid information there and lots of references to take you further on your quest. You might find some interesting snippets about the organizatiuon you work for. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators
you need a approved grid tie inverter for that. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "eric12856" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 1:09 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > Wow, thanks Ken and Martin, great info and thank you for responding! > I thought there was no way a generator/alternator genhead could > backfeed the grid. Everything I see on the web says I need an > induction motor to do that. > > Anyway, what I really want to know is how to prevent "islanding" when > the utility goes offline. Any suggestions/references? > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Basterfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Martin the is nothing technical to stop you using your alternator > as it is > > to feed back into the main supply. All you need to do is > synchronise the > > alternator output with the mains and then close the switch to > couple the > > two. You will have to common the neutrals. A lamp connected > between mains > > phase and alternator phase is all that is required. As the engine > speed is > > slowly increased, the the lamp will begin to beat slowly on and > off as the > > alternator phase signal slowly slips past the mains phase. When the > lamp > > goes out the two signals are in phase and can be connected > together. I.e. > > you close the switch. henceforth the alternator will be sychronised > to the > > mains and if you increase the Diesel engine throttle, power will be > fed to > > the mains supply. The lamp will have to be double voltage to avoid > blowing > > it. A 240 volt lamp when connecting 110 systems or two 240 lamps in > series > > if running off 240 volt systems. > > > > Don't throw out the alternator just to fit an induction motor > unless your > > alternator has specific instructions from the manufactor saying > that you are > > not allowed to connect it to the mains. > > > > This same system of synchronising using beating lamps can be > applied to 3 > > phase alternators, just connect 3 lamps between each of the > respective 3 > > phases- Original Message - > > Ken > > > > From: "martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:10 AM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Electric generators > > > > > > > Your induction generator will continue to function if it isn't > > > overloaded. If the power goes out, the induction generator will > either > > > become overloaded and stop generating, or continue to run while > > > back-feeding the power lines. As soon as you notice that the > power is > > > out you should throw your main breaker or shut off the generator. > If you > > > intend to spin your meter backwards anyway, I'm really not sure > if one > > > of the automatic switches would work for you. > > > > > > eric12856 wrote: > > > > > > >Lot of smart guys in this group so I figure someone can answer my > > > >question that I think may have a simple answer, but first > > > >some background. > > > > > > > >I have a 5hp Biodiesel generator set that I also extract heat > (from > > > >coolant and exhaust to heat the house). Now that I've moved into > a > > > >new house (my heating and electric was $450/month!!)I was > thinking of > > > >swapping out the generator head for an induction motor so that I > can > > > >intertie with the utility and use the utility as a battery and > > > >supplemental power. > > > > > > > >I know that if the utility goes out that It will produce no > > > >electricity since the motor needs the field windings excited to > > > >produce. Thats ok, the generator head will be moved to small gas > > > >engine as backup. > > > > > > > >My question: > > > >For safety reasons, I would like to stop the Diesel engine when > the > > > >utility goes off. Anyone know how I can accomplish the shutdown > or > > > >where I can find a schematic so I can build my own? The engine > has a > > > >built-in 12 volt shutdown solenoid. Would a simple relay off the > main > > > >breaker suffice? > > > > > > > >Thanks! > > > >Eric Olsen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > --- > > > Martin Klingensmith > > > http://nnytech.net/ > > > http://infoarchive.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMA
Re: [biofuel] Eliminating Truth
lol..this is the most leftist BS i have ever seen, and quoting Robert Fisk, is like quoting "The Globe" or "The National Enquierer" or "the star"...mainstream media is actually IN the units fightingright on the front lines! Isn't Robert Fisk the 1 who interviewed Saddam like he was interviewing Mother Theresa?..and i used to think LArry King gave easy interviews?...Where were questions like" So how manu of your own people have you gassesd to death this month? ".. Jennifer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
What is wrong with you people?? You really think that a boycott would make any difference?? The economy is gone to hell now, and you want to boycott American products and or business!! Seems to me that you are trying to shoot yourself in the foot, with all this boycott stuff. I really don't care;I'm retired and do not relay on a job or the economy, but you knotheads had better wake up!!! The people in charge are going to do what ever it takes to line their pockets(oil) and you can't do a damn thing about it, and not buying McDonalds(meat shipped in from another country) and or K-mart(made in China) is not going to hurt anyone in those countries, only the poor working slob here in america... Good Luck I do admire your basic idea. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 6:15 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum Hi Darryl, What about McDonalds/Budweiser/Texaco/Miller? dD biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: < < The boycotts cut both ways. < < However, if one wants to send a < financial message to the U.S. and British administrations, are there any target < products that would be particularly effective if boycotted? < < Darryl McMahon < < < < Biofuel at Journey to Forever: < http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html < < Biofuels list archives: < http://archive.nnytech.net/ < < Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. < To unsubscribe, send an email to: < [EMAIL PROTECTED] < < Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ < < < Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Iraq...
Well, I guess you do know lots about munitions. It doesn't however seem particularly relevant to the original posting. In terms of your need for everything to be officially 'confirmed', rather than, perhaps, looking around at different sources to what you have previously accepted, well, that's up to you. Andrew Preston On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:29:50 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > In a message dated 3/28/03 7:33:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > Extracted from links at www.rense.com: seems to be coming, > > in some part, from intercepted US/UK miltary communication traffic. > > > > >According to [Russian military] intelligence Pentagon made a decision to > > significantly reinforce the coalition. During >the next two weeks up to > > 50,000 troops and no less than 500 tanks will arrive to the combat area > > from the US military >bases in Germany and Albania. By the end of April > > 120,000 more troops and up to 1,200 additional tanks will be sent to > > > support the war against Iraq. > > > > > >A decision was made to change the way aviation is used in this war. The > > use of precision-guided munitions will be >scaled down and these weapons > > will be reserved for attacking only known, confirmed targets. There will be > > an increase >in the use of conventional high-yield aviation bombs, > > volume-detonation bombs and incendiary munitions. The USAF >command is > > ordered to deliver to airbases used against Iraq a two-week supply of > > aviation bombs of 1-tonn caliber and >higher as well as volume-detonation > > and incendiary bombs. This means that Washington is resorting to the > > "scorched >earth" tactics and carpet-bombing campaign. > > > > > >(source: iraqwar.ru, 03-25-03, translated by Venik) > > > > > > > Not really...and that is NOT a confirmed report. that is Rumor(scorched > earth) till proven otherwise . And guided munitions may run low, which > are > needed for hitting Exact targets where Saddam hides his arsenel in > civilian > areas. THe conventional bombs can be used outside cities in > conventional > manner on exposed Iraqi Units/armor, field pieces/rocket sights, > etc.and > on any troop concentrations >ALSO ..ANY conventional bomb munitions Can be made into Precision >GUIDED > bombs right in the field by attachement of the fins and guiding > tipALso, > 1 must consider the info source (Russia). Thus far ALL reports from Iraq > show > US and British exercise extreme caution to NOT hurting non-combatatants > and > their property. We have taken fire and not returned it in many cases in > order > to not hurt of kill innocent civilians PUT in the way by the Iraqi "SS". > We > have also not knowingly fired on Iraqi Civilians, but the Iraqi Forces > have. > I know my munitions, i know my training. Our trrops are trained as i was > trained. and I and they do not put anyone at undue risk, or inflict > undue > harm. There is Not benifit from doing so, militarily ..and DEFINITELY Not > politically. Common sense folks, common sense . >I am the same type of person as you are, i just happen to wear a >uniform, > and try to the best of my ability to defend the Free World. War is MORE > scary > to me than it is to those Not in uniform...you'll have to trust me on > that 1. > I've been on both sides of the fence. I know. > I hope and pray for a quick end to the war, and a just rebuilding of > the > Iraqi nation as much as anyone. I also fear there will be many more > battles > to come in the world of WMD in the hands of terrorists and rogue nations > (N > Korea) etc. > I personally don't like seeing the US and England basically Going it > alone. > i would hope the nations of the world would unite to beat this enemy of > humanity , and not sitting it out on political agendas in the UN and > elsewhere. We can't do it alone. it's an impossible job for 1 or 2 or 3 > nations to do. We all have to root out these elements of destruction, or > we > will all feel its destruction and its effects untill we do. > I don't have all the answers. I don't think anyone does, but we > all > must work together to find them, and take action on them. These Things > will > not just "Negotiate" away. > > Jennifer USAF > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > -- Andrew Preston -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Yo
Re: [biofuel] Re: EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
I agree with you and it would be difficult for even Bush to
paint the Queen as an evil dictator. Even if he could, London
already proved that it can resist bombings. But if Bush
wanted to do it, I guess that the French would let him use
France as staging area. I have always wondered about how
Canada could survive as a country, but if the British and
the French can get along, it should be a piece of cake for
the Christians and the Muslims. -:)
Hakan
At 01:32 AM 3/29/2003 +, you wrote:
>I had the same thought Hakan LOL
>The good news is, in Canada we have the advantage of much closer ties
>to the British ( the Queen would be quite upset at any invasion
>attempt) and the French as well ( since we have a very large
>Francophone population ), so although our meager military is tied up
>due to the Afghanistan situation, we most likely would get the
>support of the British and French.
>This would lead to an interesting combination of "conflicts".
>The US could be fighting Canada, Britain and France here, while the
>British and the US are fighting Iraq,
>while we Canadians are still assisting the US, and the Brits in
>Afghanistan.
>Meanwhile, we all continue to buy goods from each other and complain
>about each other.
>Even stranger than this is the fact that we as people almost all like
>each other.
>
>HVD
>ps...anyone thinking of invading Canada would be out of their minds
>as it is way too cold here... besides, they could just buy what they
>want.. we will ship it.
>
>
>--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Darryl,
> >
> > Good advise, continue to deliver, otherwise you take the
> > risk of being "liberated". -:)
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> >
> > At 04:27 PM 3/28/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > >The boycotts cut both ways.
> > >
> > >I read an article in the past couple of days (can't find citation
>right
> > >now), that
> > >American consumers have become more likely to boycott Canadian
>products
> > >because of
> > >the Canadian government's "opposition" to U.S. action in Iraq.
>(Please
> > >note that
> > >Canadian troops are currently in Afghanistan, Canadian Navy ships
>are in the
> > >Persian Gulf, and a small number of Canadian military are
>currently serving
> > >attached to U.S and British units in Iraq and area.
> > >
> > >If U.S. consumers really want to make an impact, I recommend
>targeting our
> > >major
> > >exports to the U.S.
> > >1) Oil. The U.S. imports more oil from Canada ("Soviet
>Canuckistan" I
> > >believe is
> > >the current term of choice in Washington D.C.)
> > >2) Natural Gas.
> > >3) Electricity (about 40,000,000,000,000 Watt-hours imported from
>Canada
> > >to U.S. in
> > >2002)
> > >4) Light trucks (including SUVs and minivans and pickups). Over
>half of
> > >these
> > >vehicles produced in Canada are exported to the U.S.
> > >5) Softwood lumber. Never mind, the U.S. government has already
>applied
> > >an illegal
> > >tariff (per NAFTA) on this, despite having the same tariff
>overturned by U.S.
> > >courts in the past.
> > >
> > >I understand that boycotting American brands may have a limited
>effect
> > >(hurting
> > >local merchants more than U.S. interests). However, if one wants
>to send a
> > >financial message to the U.S. and British administrations, are
>there any
> > >target
> > >products that would be particularly effective if boycotted?
> > >
> > >Darryl McMahon
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Re: [biofuel] Global Warming
Tom, Sorry, got a zero wrong,-:) but it is nothing, compared with what Bryan got wrong. Did not react, since my mind is made up on this issue and I am very worried. It is to take seriously and we have nothing to loose to do so. Thank you for correcting me and even more for improving my knowledge about it. Hakan At 06:31 PM 3/28/2003 +, you wrote: >Hakan, >The IPCC is actually a panel of 2000 leadig atmospheric scientists, and >over the last 10 years they have managed to reach a concensus (very >difficult for argumentative scientists!!!): the radiative forcing of the >climate has changed as a direct result of increased CO2 levels in the >atmosphere (up 50% since 1870). This is the quickest change that has ever >been seen, based on geological records going back 2 billion years. >Furthermore, this level of CO2 is unprecendented - sure, CO2 levels have >fluctuated over the last millennia, but the highest concentration seen >before now was 350ppm. Today we're on 374ppm and rising at 1ppm per year. >I have been aware of the global warming theory and climate change for >about 12 years. Today I am more worried than ever! It is grotesque to sit >there like Brah and chuck in senseless arguments (the sunspot thing has >been comprehensively rubbished by the IPCC) - even if nothing happens, >surely the precautionary principle should apply? Hell, if your tax bill >went up by 50% in five years, wouldn't you get a little tetchy? > >tom >-- >Tom Tibbits >PG, EXSS, >The Blackett Laboratory, >Prince Consort Road, >London >SW7 2BW >http://www.sc.ic.ac.uk/~q_pv/ > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Work +44 207 594 6678 >Mobile +44 778 607 5692 >Home +44 207 701 5303 >-- > - Original Message - > From: Hakan Falk > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 6:20 PM > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Global Warming > > > > Bryan, > > I am sorry, but I cannot accept your statements as having > scientific base and connection to reality nor being knowledgeable, > reasonable and responsible. I do find the 200 leading scientist > in the field and the world, that belive in the CO2 connection > and Global Warming somewhat more serious and convincing. > > Hakan > > > At 10:50 AM 3/28/2003 -0600, you wrote: > >Show me the money! > > > >As far as a the relationship between the earth's mean temperature and CO2 > >levels, first prove to me that CO2 levels wouldn't have risen without > >human contribution. Next show me that this CO2 is the CAUSE of the > >increase in the mean temperature. I won't argue that the temperature is > >rising, but the atmospheric level of CO2 might very well be a RESULT of a > >higher mean temperature. The "Greenhouse Effect" is just a theory; there > >are a number of other theories that explain why the earth's > temperature is > >rising. These include increased sunspot activity and tectonic and > >geothermal action. Increased temperature could cause saturated CO2 to be > >released from the oceans. > > > >Blaming "Global Warming" on CO2 emissions (and thus on industrialized > >countries), is a convenient ruse to redistribute wealth to > >non-industrialized nations. Kyoto doesn't do anything to curb the > >emissions of China, India, all of Africa, or South America. Do you > >believe for a minute that these countries don't produce CO2 emissions, > and > >won't continue to do so at greater and greater rates? Kyoto is not about > >protecting the environment, it is about controlling people. > > > >Comparing the CO2 production on a per person basis is misleading, while > >Europeans are responsible for 8 tons of CO2 each per year, and Chinese > >make only 2 tons per year per person (Kirk's stat), there are about four > >times as many Chinese as there are Europeans, so the regional output is > >the same. Furthermore the demographic of "developed" countries is > >changing. The European population is expected to decrease over the next > >two decades, so who will be producing more CO2 then? Has China signed > Kyoto? > > > >I'll butter my bread how I like. I ride my bike to work because I want > >to, not because an international treaty makes it illegal for me to drive > >my car. When I do drive, I'd rather smell French fries than dead > >dinosaurs. What we should really be doing is using wind, solar, and tide > >power to split hydrogen for fuel cells, but I imagine that we'll have to > >run out of petroleum and coal before that happens. > > > >-BRAH Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscr
