Re: [biofuel] BD as Lube oil for two stroke gasoline engine
Todd, FTR, I have read thru all the posts. And responses. And I have spent way too much time in my life arguing with my-way-or-the-highway boys like you. Your condescending sarcasm is there for all to see, even in the second line of your last post, below. We disagree as to the needs and future progress of the alternative fuels movement. My thoughts are stated in previous posts, succinctly, I might add. And thank you for that observation, I aim for succinctness. [Search Results for succinct-- 1) maxim. The American Heritage¨ Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. ...A succinct formulation of a fundamental principle, general truth, or rule of conduct. See synonyms at saying. Middle English maxime, from Old French, from Medieval... 2) succinct. The American Heritage¨ Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. ...sucácinctáest1. Characterized by clear, precise expression in few words; ] So, flame away if you simply can't contain yourself, I am through with this topic and will not be engaging with you further. Quinn BTW, Keith, just below Todd states: Dabbling with methanol, lye and heat sources isn't exactly the same as bread making or weekend laundry. Exactly what Maud and I have been saying all along. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] BD as Lube oil for two stroke gasoline engine Quinn, Please read the entirety of the posts and responses Quinn. Not simply those one-sided snippits that fit the pounding of your heart at a given moment. While I have no bone to pick with either Maud or you, the tone of her tomes have been rather succinct, whether intended as tongue in cheek or not. And you're following suit. Push button convenience. Clothes-washer safe and reliable. Thought free. Foolproof. And then assemble it all and give it to the masses...Yippee! What ever happened to the end user having a clue clue as to what to do with it, what they're actually getting into and whether they're going to stick with it or not? Build a production run of retail reactors/systems and they will come, eh? Dabbling with methanol, lye and heat sources isn't exactly the same as bread making or weekend laundry. And buying a top-'o-the-line micro-processor is no more going to make someone a capable biodieseler than dropping $10,000 on a carbon fibre bicycle is going to make someone a bicyclist of olympic calibre. Everything starts with the person, not the device. And everything from start to finish is dependant upon the person, not the device - bicycle or processor, it doesn't matter. All that is going to happen as a result of making processors in a box available to the masses - whether they be lacklustre or cradle-to-grave units - is a lot of collective waste, in time, in money and perhaps even lives and property. It's not the availability of processors in a box, much less Mal-Wart priced processors that is going to solve the collective problem either. That's a consumerist mentality. If I only had this I could do so much more. What solves problems is individual drive and determination, coupled with available resources. Well, the resources are all there. There's hardly a part in the world that cannot be had by an enthusiastic and/or dedicated biodieseler. And the drawings, blueprints and parts lists have been, are and will be available for those dance-class dads and soccer moms who have both the drive and the ideal to match. For those who don't know if they've got either or both, let them review the best information that's available and then work with someone to pull the ideal off if they still think it's a worthwhile venture. But buying or making available over-priced and/or half-baked units is not the answer. The answer is to provide the information and let the individual not only save several thousand dollars (Their child's inheritance? A new sand and gravel mine and used front end loader for the creek, compost heap and earth plaster gathering? Maybe three used Jettas and the ability to send three gas guzzlers to the crusher?), but become knowledgeable about the process and the processor that is going to take them there. That knowledge alone is going to be immeasurable in value when the first button is pushed, perhaps more than anyone could ever imagine. Time is as much money as money is time, with time often being of greater abundance than money. As for what you presume that I don't understand, much less your misperceptions as to where my disdain lays? What I understand is that the entire world is struggling in some way shape or form to put bread on their plates, keep roofs over their heads and keep the mortgage company, landlord or warlord's foot out of the small of their backs. But I'm to be bitched at because I don't eagerly hasten to help put some inevitably, mindlessly-foolish and naive people at some financial or physical peril, or
[biofuel] 2 micron filter
I got a good deal on a Racor filter, but the element it has on it is 2 micron. Is that too fine for a WVO setup? AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] salt and wash question
I made my first biodiesel washing emulsion of the season last week. Yep, it's winter (I actually had to wear a snowsuit at night even in Berkeley last week) and emulsification in the wash is more of a problem in wintertime temps. I was expecting to start hearing about people having washing problems, and here it is, right on que, including me! I got home today from a job wiring up lights and exit signs in a smelly (incense) New Age bookstore, opened my inbox hoping I'd have some mail about plans to go partying or music or something, but instead I had several random pieces of correspondence about ... you know- biodiesel. Making it. Where you get it. What is it. Do I know anyone in Florida teaching it, and Am I the man with the propane oil heater and the plastic biodiesel settling tank pictures on the web (whom the writer knows uses mistwashing technique) (answer: I am none of the above!). Well, I have no life, and so I spent my holiday Friday night writing about biodiesel on the computer while my fingers froze. So here is some of the offlist stuff for everyone's consumption: --- Richard MacDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Maria, my name is Richard and I got your e-mail address from Steve Spence regarding a post I put up on a biodiesel board Regarding washing 200 L of emulsion that I have sitting in my processor that even after a week has not cracked and shows no sign of doing so. I am heating the solution however have refrained from bubble washing until someone can tell ( advise ) me how to do a salt wash as it looks like this will be my only option unless I want to pitch it all out. So my questions are: I've got 200L of this light brown stuff made up of 100L of biodiesel and 100 L of water. -In order to do a salt wash how much and of what type of salt would you suggest I use. Is there a formula for this. -Do I just sprinkle it on or pour it in and then mix it and if so for how long. And how long should it take before I see a reaction. And any other helpful thoughts you would like to add would be very much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to help me on this continuing learning experience. I have been able to make some good batches so I know I'm on the right track Just have to perfect it a bit more I guess... Richard MacDonald Hi Richard, I have an article on breaking emulsions over at www.journeytoforever.org. I do not recommend salt- because all it really does is keep the water from absorbing the impurities that you're trying to wash out, and salt is not something you want around steel (corrosion). You could break emulsion with salt (grind it in a blender (rock salt is very cheap) and then dissolve it in a pot of hot water and then throw it in. I used about 2 cups of road rock salt last year when I did this for similar size batch as you), but be prepared to wash and wash and wash to get it all out at the end. The salt wash thing suffered a revival recently in the homebrew world but I think it's a poor idea. I've recently started washing with hot water and it makes a huge difference. IF you have a cheap way to heat, then heating your whole wash tank is also a good idea. Right now I just made my first emulsified wash of the winter- and I'm clearing it by washing with very hot water, bubbling for only one hour before the water completely cools, and being prepared to 'wash it out' which does work depending on the situation. Also I now always recommend washing for only one or two hours on the first wash and then increasing washing times after the initial crud is gone. and last, making sure your bubblestone isn't disintegrating and making sure it gives very very fine bubbles is important, and difficult to do with aquarium stones... Many peopel (including me!) have problems with emulsions in the winter- it's partly cold water and partly that cooler temperatures during the reaction can cause problems. I got this info from the Iowa State University research on biodiesel. Their address is www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel. I'm not sure they cover 'washing' specifically at that website but there is a lot of great info in there and many people are unaware of this good resource... take care and good luck! mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
[biofuel] how do you calibrate a processor?
Here was the other offlist interesting question put to Dear Abby (I mean Chump Mark) in the mail tonight: --- Paul B.Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, ... Thanks so much for posing the pics and drawings of the biodiesel on the web site. Am hoping to get something together sometime soon and make it my winter project. A few questions I have though. How do you know how much oil you've put in the system or methoxide for that matter as well? Do you just have to measure how many 5 gallon buckets you dump into the bucket that feeds the primed filler tube? Same on the methoxide line I'd guess you'd have to measure it all out in advance and have just the right amount of stuff in the carboy, no? Is there any way to accurately measure the sight tube or only by loading it up and seeing where it fills to I'd think? I'm probably going to use it for a one step processor for now and focus on doing a good titration and going from there. In the near future I'd like to get into methanol recovery, but am going to stick to single stage for now. any ideas on the amounts? So then what's the issue about a closed system? Is it just the vapors that are given off druing the mixing or the pouring it in stage? Seems that a good lid with a pump/ stirrer in the container would work then ... no? -Paul hi Paul, this is the evening of the email biodiesel advice column for me. The first time I 'calibrate' (ie fill) the processor, I use a restaurant 5-gallon clear tub that has liters marked on it (these are common in the restaurant world). I fill the processor with a couple of these, make a mark on the sight tube, then add one more measured tubful and figure out how many inches on the sight tube the liquid rises each time I put in 20 liters, say. Then I make a mark on the sight tube for the full amount of oil I'll use and perhaps a half-batch sight tube mark as well. I usually write down how many inches to 20 liters so I can measure liquids in the sight tube just by using a yardstick if need be for partial batches. Methoxide: the carboys come with gallon marks on the sides. This makes me do a bad thing- I work in metric measurements but measure my methanol in gallons. Oh well. The exact methanol measurement isn't completely crucial. I have the methanol supply place fill the carboys for me (as though they were gas cans)- so I don' t actually have to do any handling of methanol. As far as fumes, they'l be there until you wash the biodiesel or distill off the methanol. There is extra methanol used in the reaction (which you need for a good reaction) and that's why we do methanol recovery (or should in theory). anyhow, it means that there are fumes coming off the process from the time you add methanol to the time you wash, and there are fumes that come off the glycerol part as well. It's not a big problem to control them though. Yes, a good lid works, if you can make it seal well. A stirrer processor is fine if you can seal the shaft of the propeller. I use 100% silicone caulk (not silicone/latex/acrylic mix) to make up my own gaskets when I need to seal an odd item like a lid. For stirred tank reactors, you can buy a bearing that is rated to withstand pressure (look in the phone book for bearings places and also look it up at Grainger or McMaster-Carr supply houses). this sort of bearing won't pass methanol fumes I believe (or won' t pass much I hope), although it all depends on how the bearing is attached to the lid etc... Good luck! mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil
Hi all, How can a diesel engine run on ethanol ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: shawstafari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 5:49 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil An immediate solution for myself, right now, here in the U.S., is there an alternative other than converting my diesel car to run on veggie oil? Yes! Diesel (see Scania in Sweden) and non-diesel engines may be run on ethanol. Unfortunately 100% ethanol is not a legal motor fuel because it could be drunk. It's moonshine. The US ATF makes us denature or poision ethanol with any number of things (usually gasoline). It is my hopes that they will allow us to use biodieisel or some other denaturant that has a lubricating quality. Would say 5% biodiesel work as a denaurant/lubricant? We are waiting to hear back. Dave Shaw Alcohol Can Be A Gas! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Process BioD
Ken Provost said: Yes, I'm sure. If you got NO ethoxide ion, you'd get no biodiesel. Ethanol will neither esterify nor trans- esterify directly with oil, soap, or FFAs under alkaline conditions -- only after ionization. Really clean oil and really dry ethanol will make fine biodiesel depend- ably with KOH or NaOH, with no methanol present or alkoxide specially introduced . This COULD NEVER occur if some ethoxide ion were not formed. Thanks Ken, for answering. I'm going to do some more research into the chemistry of the reactions. Again, thanks, Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Process BioD
same with me, IRC will speed up your typing dramatically!! James Slayden On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Dan Maker wrote: snip That's still WAY cool! Why make a professional call at all, when you can IRC it and have a permanent record? Still you have to be able to type fast, which my daughter does nicely but I never have.-K Yes, it is cool, and I didn't type fast untill I started hanging out on IRC. Now I type about 60wpm. Before I did well to make 35wpm. Dan -- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Bubble Wash Assembly
Where do you live? The parts that Dan listed From McMaster-Carr orderable and listed here:
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil
I was reviewing my info on gopherweed recently and it seems that a distillant of it would be a perfect denaturant, or even bio-meth from a smallish scale methane source. Al Rutan would come in handy here (or someone of that ilk). James Slayden On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Biodiesel's not poisonous, I think the denaturant has to be poisonous. Biodiesel plus methanol maybe? You can get permits for fuel ethanol production from the ATF, we're told it's not that difficult. Best Keith Would say 5% biodiesel work as a denaurant/lubricant? We are waiting to hear back. Dave Shaw Alcohol Can Be A Gas! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 2 micron filter
Unless you've got something coarser - more like 10 micron - before it, it will load up quickly. Or unless you prefilter off the vehicle - bag filter - to 10 microns or finer. But you can always buy a 10 micron cartridge for it - unless it's a LFS type - not sure if they make 10 micron discs. Craig Alan Petrillo wrote: I got a good deal on a Racor filter, but the element it has on it is 2 micron. Is that too fine for a WVO setup? AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Brazil Ethanol Biodiesel
Thankyou Hoagy! Your welcome Keith. Abet more -- Embassy of Brazil in India - NEWS http://www.brazilembassyinindia.com/news.htm First cars produced in Brazil with dual fuel engines The Brazilian branches of Magneti Marelli and Bosch developed a bi-fuel system based on a chip that recognizes the type and proportion of fuel blend, allowing the owner to choose between petrol and ethanol or to mix both in any quantity in the same engine. This technology provides the car owner with the best choice regarding fuel prices, availability or gas emissions. Volkswagen produced the first 1.200 passenger cars with the system. Fiat, Ford and General Motors will launch cars with this system in the middle of the year. The additional cost of the system is expected to be less than 10% of the total cost of the car. But, as an incentive for the system, the tax on the production of such vehicles will be 2% lower than for petrol-run cars. (April/2003) New research on production of biodiesel Biodiesel: new techniques were developed on biodiesel using vegetal oil in reaction with ethanol through electromagnetic radiation. Using soybean coconut, sunflower or other kinds of oil, this technology can produce a volume of fuel 30 times as big as the volume produced in European of North-American plants using methanol. The Brazilian National Agency for Petroleum will eventually issue directives regarding the use of the fuel. (April/2003) The government authorizes the blend of 25% of ethanol to petrol The Interministerial Council for Sugar and Alcohol (CIMA) approved the addition of 25% of ethanol to petrol, up from the current 20%, from 1st of June on. (May/2003) Brazil-U.S. Business Council, Brazil Bulletin, Vol. XIII, No. 28 July 14, 2003 http://www.brazilcouncil.org/aboutthecouncil/about_memservices_bbulletin.html *** The Brazilian subsidiary of Volkswagen this week unveiled plans to sell only dual-fuel vehicles in three years' time. VW was the first carmaker to launch a dual-fuel automobile in Brazil. The Gol Total Flex runs either on gasoline, fuel ethanol or any mix of the two fuels combined. Quatro Rodas [google.com translation] EXCLUSIVE - Total Goal Flex http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=ptu=http://quatrorodas.abril.com.br/plus/0403_totalflex.shtmlprev=/search%3Fq%3DGol%2BTotal%2BFlex%2B%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG Alcohol or gasoline? You decide in the rank We test the first car that uses alcohol or gasoline in any ratio snip FOUR WHEELS tested, with exclusiveness, the Total Goal Flex. E the numbers had confirmed the optimistical forecasts. The consumption numbers had been well next to the ones to the Goal Power 1,6 the alcohol and the gasoline, tested in the edition of October of the last year: With pure alcohol, the Flex Total made 5,29 km/l in urban stretch and 10,29 in highway. Already with gasoline, the 7,64 numbers had been km/l and 12,91. Already with mixture 50/50, the car made 6,37 km/l in city and 11,23 km/l in the road. snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Brazil Ethanol Anhydrous ?
Brazil Proposes Sugar Export Tax To Regulate Ethanol Production May 30, 2002 http://www.bbiethanol.com/news/view.cgi?article=523 Sao Paulo, May 24 (OsterDowJones) - The Brazilian government may ask its sugar and ethanol industry to accept a tax on sugar exports as a condition to reactivating the ethanol -powered car program, a minister said Thursday. Speaking following a meeting with millers, Development, Trade and Industry Minister Sergio Amaral said the Brazilian government is disposed to reactivate the ethanol -powered car program, known as Proalcool, but added he first needed guarantees there would be no cane ethanol shortages before it takes the plunge. The government is worried millers will divert cane from ethanol to sugar production when international sugar prices rise. Amaral told a press conference in Brasilia that one of the easiest ways to prevent this was a tax on sugar exports, imposed when ethanol stocks are seen as precarious. But Eduardo Pereira de Carvalho, president of the Sao Paulo State Union of Sugar Agro-Industries, or Unica, said the government worries that eventual shortages of ethanol were unfounded and the tax was unnecessary, although the sector would consider the proposal. The best guarantee that there will be no shortages is our interest in reactivating this market, he said. A revival of Proalcool would be a major boost for the local sugar and ethanol industry, the world's biggest. Despite the fact Brazil is the world's biggest sugar exporter, the industry's main product over the last two decades has been ethanol. The program enjoyed success following its creation in 1975. In 1989, some 94% of Brazilian vehicles were ethanol - fueled in 1984. But a sharp decline in ethanol -car sales since the 1980s has led ethanol demand to nosedive over the last five years. This has forced the industry to rely ever more heavily on the volatile international market for revenue. At the peak of ethanol production in the 1997-98 season (May-April), Brazil produced 15.4 billion liters, which used up 66% of the available sugarcane. But in 2001-02 output fell to around 10.5 billion liters, using just 53% of available cane. The sector is currently working with the Agriculture Ministry to draw up a financing plan to create strategic ethanol stocks to ensure supply at the end of the Brazilian sugarcane harvest season in March and April. Meanwhile, Carvalho noted the government can already regulate demand by adjusting the level of anhydrous ethanol used in gasoline fuel - currently set at 24%. The export tax proposal is very old-fashioned. We need something more sophisticated to regulate supply, said one Unica official. But according to a report on the local Agencia Estado newswire, the Development Ministry is not satisfied these instruments are sufficient to guarantee supply, hence the export-tax proposal. Brazil produces two types of ethanol fuel made from sugarcane, hydrous and anhydrous. Hydrous ethanol is used to power vehicles specially designed to use this type of clean fuel, while anhydrous ethanol is used as a gasoline additive. WORRIES HARK BACK TO 1989 Many blame the demise of the original Proalcool scheme on regional ethanol shortages in 1989, which led consumers to lose confidence in ethanol cars. The government and the car makers are concerned history will repeat itself if the program is revived. However, Unica's Carvalho said the blame for the 1989 crisis was at the government's door, as they regulated the sector at the time, and the sector was now much more mature and capable of regulating itself. The success of Proalcool in the 1980s was based on heavy government subsidies. However, Amaral was emphatic that there would be no subsidy to ethanol production, if the program were resurrected. In the eighties, the government subsidized ethanol to make it competitive with gasoline. Ethanol is now produced much more cheaply, but equilibrium between prices remains an issue. To ensure balance, the government proposes using a sliding tax on gasoline. In addition to promoting ethanol -powered cars, the government is studying the possibility of backing the introduction of flex fuelvehicles, which can run on either ethanol or gasoline or a mixture of the two. The National Auto Manufacturers Association, or Anfavea, supports both the ethanol and flex-fuel car incentive but has demanded the government offer tax incentives for production. Alastair Stewart, OsterDowJones Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-
Re: [biofuel] Brazil Ethanol Hydrous Engines
Brazil seeks to woo back ethanol car drivers BRAZIL: September 19, 2002 Story by Peter Blackburn REUTERS NEWS SERVICE http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/17823/story.htm [quote] During its peak in the 1980s, Brazil produced up to 16 billion liters (4.2 billion gallons) of fuel alcohol per year, but this year is expected to make only 11 billion liters (3 billion gallons) in the key center-south region in which Sertaozinho is strategically located. Demand for cars with special hydrous alcohol designed engines is slowly recovering after sinking to a trough of 0.1 percent of new car sales in 1998, from a peak of 90 percent in the mid-1980s, according to Anfavea, the Brazilian Automobile Manufacturers Association. [more] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Brazil Ethanol Dual Fuel Cars
Dual Fuel Cars Revive Brazil's Alcohol Industry By Mario Osava* [Aug 25, 2003 ?] http://tierramerica.net/english/2003/0825/iacentos.shtml The new bi-fuel vehicles could expand the use of renewable energy, which had been on the decline in the late 1990s. RIO DE JANEIRO - Brazil's automotive industry, which had made advances in using fuel alcohol as a means to confront the oil crisis of the 1970s, is taking another step, manufacturing cars that run on gasoline, alcohol or a mix of the two -- and maintaining the same level of vehicle performance. The car manufacturers Volkswagen, of German origins, and the U.S.-based General Motors put the first dual fuel vehicles on the market here in April and June, respectively. The technogical innovation is a result of Brazilian industry, although the two companies are transnationals. The result benefits the environment, because reducing gasoline consumption and increasing alcohol use means lower emissions of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming, Manoel Paulo de Toledo, engineering and inspection manager for the Sao Paulo state technology and environment entity CETESB, told Tierramrica. Substituting a fossil fuel with a plant-based renewable fuel is the correct route to take, especially for curbing climate change, agrees Eduardo quartim, project coordinator at the Ecoar Institute, a Sao Paulo environmental group. Furthermore, explained CETESB's Toledo, alcohol production creates economic and social benefits for Brazil because it generates employment and gives the rural population a reason to stay. Sugar cane, the raw material for alcohol, absorbs as much or more carbon dioxide than what is emitted by alcohol comubstion. And sugar cane byproducts, like the pulp and sediments, are used to generate electricity and as fertliser. The bi-fuel automobile increases Brazil's opportunities to export vehicles, alcohol and automotive technology. Several countries, including the United States, China and Canada, already consume gasoline with alcohol added. There are nearly two million flex fuel cars in the United States, but there the process is different because they use a mix with a maximum of 85 percent alcohol, which obligates adding 15 percent gasoline, noted Joao Alvarez Filho, Volkswagen manager for engines and transmission. The new Brazilian models can run on just gasoline, or 100 percent alcohol, or any proportion mix of the two, he said in a coversation with Tierramrica. The company prefers to call this innovation total flex, to reflect the true range of possibilities. The Brazilian advantage was to develop the dual fuel-based on cars that run exclusively on alcohol, which the country has produced for more than 25 years, a pioneer in the technology. As of July, 6,100 of these new cars had been sold, and buyer satisfaction is high, but it is too early to predict just how far the market for total flex vehicles will go. Some experts believe that in the long term all Brazilian cars will be bi-fuel. Another possibility is that the dual fuel will kill the alcohol-only engine. Volkswagen began to develop the new cars four years ago, with the sole objective of allowing users complete freedom in choosing fuels, said Alvarez. But the new car is also a response to drivers' worries about alcohol supplies. Alcohol-fuelled cars conquered the Brazilian market in the 1980s, and represented more than 90 percent of car manufacturing within a few years. Cheap alcohol and expensive gasoline pushed this trend. But alcohol shortages in 1989 and 1990 sharply undermined the popularity of the new fuel. Sales of alcohol-powered cars plummeted to less than one percent of total vehicle sales. Also contributing to the decline was the fact that oil prices fell, and that the state-owned oil giant Petrobrs, a monopoly at the time, wanted to sell within Brazil the fuel that it was exporting at a loss, says Alfred Szwarc, technical consultant for the Sugar Cane Agro-Industry Union, an organisation of Brazil's major sugar and alcohol producers. Now the bi-fuel car has emerged because petroleum prices have gone up again, with the international price at 25 to 30 dollars a barrel, more than twice what was 13 or 14 years ago, Szwarc noted in a conversation with Tierramrica. The fact that dual fuel vehicles are on the market is helping consumers get past their hesitations about alcohol-only motors. Drivers are no longer subject to shortages or high prices of one fuel or the other, because they can always use the cheaper one. As for the environmental benefits, for now there are no major differences in Brazil in the level of contaminants -- carbon dioxide, hydrocarbons or nitrogen oxide -- produced by alcohol and gasoline-driven cars, according to Toledo. Alcohol generates more aldehydes, carcinogenic substances, but gasoline produces innumerable
Re: [biofuel] BD as Lube oil for two stroke gasoline engine
Aw gee, Quinn, So what is a person supposed to do now? Put you in the same category as a dog with a dead fish - refusing to drop it, gnawing on it despite it's rank odour and then carrying along the smell wherever you visit? Sadly, you've all too effortlessly greased your meal with double standard (one person's satire is okay but another's is not), accusationally mislabeled the latter as mysoginistic and now after your effort to further fan insult, you would like to leave the impression that a response to your obnoxiousness would be nothing less than an attempt to flame. Forget one not being able to see the forest for the trees. You're having a difficult enough time seeing your own reflection in a freshly polished kitchen window for but one or two sprigs of herbs potted on the sill. Might I suggest, rather than further expending your energies and those of anyone else, that you just go out and waste a few grand on one of those over-priced and under-equipped processors. In doing so you can make yourself even more of a slave to a time clock in order to compensate for the wasted money, leaving you with even less time to worry about reading or answering e-mails, not to mention studying alternative construction materials, much less the reduced cash flow to buy them. Forget the opportunity costs of wasting your money in such a direction. After all, who really cares that a $3,000 cheap-assed and inadequate, off-the-shelf, retail processor would take the average owner around nine years to recover their investment, even if the family auto gets 33 mpg and the house is heated with oil - 18 years if you buy the $6,000 worthless piece of piece of junk from Real Goods, not to mention all the accessories that should have been thrown into a system in the first place. So knock yourself out Quinn. Heck, pay with a credit card if you can so you can set yourself back even further financially. And when all is said and done? Well maybe it won't all be said or done. If you're really lucky, maybe you can maim or kill yourself, or perhaps burn down your or your neighbor's house as a result of your relying on a no-thought-required, instantaneous-gratification, push-button processor, rather than becoming personally familiar with the nuances and mechanics required to do the job well. If you're one of the lucky few that end up in that lot, you won't ever have to worry again about having enough time for anything. You'll either be dead, serving time in prison for wreckless disregard or a bond-servant for life paying for your flippant carelessness. Yessiree! That's what we're all designed for... to feed the machine. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] BD as Lube oil for two stroke gasoline engine Todd, FTR, I have read thru all the posts. And responses. And I have spent way too much time in my life arguing with my-way-or-the-highway boys like you. Your condescending sarcasm is there for all to see, even in the second line of your last post, below. We disagree as to the needs and future progress of the alternative fuels movement. My thoughts are stated in previous posts, succinctly, I might add. And thank you for that observation, I aim for succinctness. [Search Results for succinct-- 1) maxim. The American Heritage¨ Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. ...A succinct formulation of a fundamental principle, general truth, or rule of conduct. See synonyms at saying. Middle English maxime, from Old French, from Medieval... 2) succinct. The American Heritage¨ Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. ...sucácinctáest1. Characterized by clear, precise expression in few ords; ] So, flame away if you simply can't contain yourself, I am through with this topic and will not be engaging with you further. Quinn BTW, Keith, just below Todd states: Dabbling with methanol, lye and heat sources isn't exactly the same as bread making or weekend laundry. Exactly what Maud and I have been saying all along. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] BD as Lube oil for two stroke gasoline engine Quinn, Please read the entirety of the posts and responses Quinn. Not simply those one-sided snippits that fit the pounding of your heart at a given moment. While I have no bone to pick with either Maud or you, the tone of her tomes have been rather succinct, whether intended as tongue in cheek or not. And you're following suit. Push button convenience. Clothes-washer safe and reliable. Thought free. Foolproof. And then assemble it all and give it to the masses...Yippee! What ever happened to the end user having a clue clue as to what to do with it, what they're actually getting into and whether they're going to stick with it or not? Build a production run of retail
Re: [biofuel] BD as Lube oil for two stroke gasoline engine
Um, Keith? Isn't there a protocol here about outright nastiness? I think Quinn and co. have some valid points, and they're being drowned in this exchange. I'd like it a lot if we could get back to it. Todd and Mark, you obviously have a LOT of knowledge about what is required to make a BD processor safe and reliable -- how about putting your knowledge and Quinn's ideas about pushbutton processors together, and see what you can come up with? An open sourced, mostly automatic, closed loop processor that could be made from scrap and off-the-shelf parts would seem to be the best of both worlds, to me, and I'm not thinking about breaking a nail -- I'm thinking about making a process independent of particular individuals, so that a small scale co-op could train and trust any member to operate the equipment. A pushbutton alone wouldn't do it, of course. The water-heater processor seems to come close, and it would be trivial to add some process automation to such a small scale system. The most heinous part of these off-the-shelf processor hucksters, to my newbie's eyes, is the attempt to make the chemistry look trivial or secondary when it is of course the core of the process. I suspect that one can make good fuel in a PETE conical tank, even rather safely, if one takes precautions, but I can't imagine that someone sold on the idea of a turnkey processor would be nearly as rigorous in their chemistry than someone who took the time to learn this from the ground up, or have anything like a real understanding of what was going on in the reactor. If they did, fine -- it's hard for skills to be seriously compromised by the available tools, since someone who knows what they're doing will just make do or adapt -- but I worry that the turnkey or pushbutton approach means selling the ease of a process which really requires some in-depth training to carry out reliably. And, yeah -- it's three grand. - Nathan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] HEET for methanol for first test run
Had heard that HEET was pretty much Methanol. Bottle notes it contains methyl alcohol but I'm only worried that there is other crap in there as well. I have it from a pretty good source though that it's fine, esp for a quick 5 gallon test batch. Any thoughts or knowledge on HEET out there? I'd just rather not but a 50 gallon drum just yet. - Paul Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] HEET for methanol for first test run
On Saturday, November 29, 2003, at 02:38 PM, Paul B.Schmidt wrote: Had heard that HEET was pretty much Methanol. Bottle notes it contains methyl alcohol but I'm only worried that there is other crap in there as well. I have it from a pretty good source though that it's fine, esp for a quick 5 gallon test batch. Any thoughts or knowledge on HEET out there? Don't know about HEET, but methanol is readily avail. from auto parts stores as gasoline dryer. There are two formulas, one methanol and one isopropanol, so you have to read the fine print.-K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] HEET for methanol for first test run
Had heard that HEET was pretty much Methanol. Bottle notes it contains methyl alcohol but I'm only worried that there is other crap in there as well. I have it from a pretty good source though that it's fine, esp for a quick 5 gallon test batch. Any thoughts or knowledge on HEET out there? I'd just rather not but a 50 gallon drum just yet. - Paul Hi Paul Check this: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=HEETlist=BIOFUEL Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] BD as Lube oil for two stroke gasoline engine
Quinn Your condescending sarcasm is there for all to see, even in the second line of your last post, below. How about your own condescending sarcasm? community based canola-to-biodiesel operations in the US (that's United States, Keith) ... That's just in my case, apart from this dictionary stuff below, and, well, the entire post. Both posts. This in response to what? - My reply to this from you: No, Keith, you don't have to be a rocket scientist. But I bet it would help. ; ) Only partly a joke, whether you admit it or not, and definitely requiring a response - after all, this is the whole foundation of the burgeoning, world-wide homebrew biodiesel movement, the purpose of what we do here and have done with biodiesel - that indeed you DON'T have to be a rocket scientist to make your own high-quality fuel, anybody can do it, as thousands or more than thousands are now doing. Such discouragement, archived, findable via Google and the other big search engines, is less than helpful, and I certainly won't let it stand uncountered. So you got a response, reasoned and reasonable, not rude, not condescending, not sarcastic or snide, and necessary. But you apparently couldn't take being disagreed with, and that's where the condescending sarcasm started, with you, right here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30019/ That seems to be all we've had from you since, snideness and sarcasm, no response on this matter of rocket scientists, and some preposterous assumptions - for instance your amazing proposition that either we should be able to buy ready-made stuff in an appliance store or we'll have to abandon the entire economic system and make our own from scratch, starting with extraction and refining of the raw materials. Good grief. And, that being the case, there's apparently no need to learn how to do anything, such as rig an effective processor out of bits of junk, or think for yourself. You didn't even read my reply, that got you so annoyed, did you? Just enough to get annoyed: What you don't seem to understand is that there are those out there who have *other* interests also. You don't say. But I did say: Biodiesel certainly isn't my main interest in life (nor JtF's either, come to that), if I can do it, so can you. (Hm... I wonder.) Nor would Todd have any trouble with any of the skills and knowledge you mention, nor would many people here. So maybe this does apply to you: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/26401/ Ten thumbs. Well, that's what tends to happen to people who're too quick to see a Big-time slap down! where there isn't one, and none intended - they end up getting a big-time slap down. Too bad. BTW, Keith, just below Todd states: Dabbling with methanol, lye and heat sources isn't exactly the same as bread making or weekend laundry. Exactly what Maud and I have been saying all along. Can't get it right, can you? I strongly opposed the idea that making biodiesel's like doing the weekend laundry. I did not say it's exactly the same as bread making, nor would I say such a dumb thing. I've said it often enough to get it right: This stuff isn't much more complicated than baking bread, if any. That's right, it's not. Quinn: FTR, I have read thru all the posts. And responses. Real careful reading. You bake bread, do you? Do you know everything about the complex biological processes taking place when the dough rises, or the chemical changes that happen in the oven? Or do you just follow the recipe like everyone else? And maybe through careful practice you end up with your own way of doing it that works better for you - and without advanced qualifications in rocket science? You want to be helpless, Quinn, that's just fine, you go right ahead, if that's quite the term, but you can stop insisting that everyone else has to put their brain in neutral too, and you can drop the snide sarcasm. In other words, that's right, YOU back off. This is a research and development discussion list on appropriate technology for decentralised production and use of biofuels and related subjects, not a shopping mall. Keith Addison List owner Todd, FTR, I have read thru all the posts. And responses. And I have spent way too much time in my life arguing with my-way-or-the-highway boys like you. Your condescending sarcasm is there for all to see, even in the second line of your last post, below. We disagree as to the needs and future progress of the alternative fuels movement. My thoughts are stated in previous posts, succinctly, I might add. And thank you for that observation, I aim for succinctness. [Search Results for succinct-- 1) maxim. The American Heritage¨ Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. ...A succinct formulation of a fundamental principle, general truth, or rule of conduct. See synonyms at saying. Middle English maxime, from Old French, from Medieval... 2) succinct. The American
[biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil
How can a diesel engine run on ethanol ? When the book comes out it will be much more eloquent, but for now all I can say is that the diesel engine run on 90%+ ethanol by modifying the injection pump, injection nozzles, pistons, gaskets, and other standard modifications (like compression and filters) when going from petrol to an alternative. We will be addressing this issue in our book Alcohol Can Be a Gas!. It goes to publishing in March. Dave Shaw Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil
Hi all, How can a diesel engine run on ethanol ? Hi Pieter The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel, Mathewson, 1980, Chapter 3, DIESEL ENGINES: Contrary to the opinion of most experts, diesel engines can be run on pure alcohol. The main problem is in the lubrication of the injectors. This is solved by the addition of 5-20% vegetable oil (or other suitable lubricant) to the alcohol. It is also possible to make a diesel gasohol with up to 80% alcohol. Since alcohol and oil will not mix when water is present, both the alcohol and the oil must be anhydrous. Different engines may also require adjustment of the metering pump for optimum performance. Diesel engines, especially turbocharged diesels, may also be run with an alcohol/water injection system as described later. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual3.html Buses running on pure ethanol Heavy vehicles with converted diesel engines are being run on pure ethanol, with a spark-improving additive. Major environmental benefits are less greenhouse gases and a reduction in exhaust fumes. There are about 400 ethanol-powered buses in Sweden, 250 of which operate in central Stockholm. Successful trials have also been conducted using ethanol-powered heavy trucks and refuse disposal vehicles. http://www.miljobilar.stockholm.se/english/branslen_etanol.asp Ethanol-Diesel Blends: A Step Towards A Bio-based Fuel For Diesel Engines, Hansen, Lyne, Qin, 2001 - includes some information ethanol corrosion, flash points, separation, etc. http://www.age.uiuc.edu/oree/e-diesel/Publications/infopub.pdf Fuel-Cycle Energy and Emission Impacts of Ethanol-Diesel Blends in Urban Buses and Farming Tractors, Wang, Saricks, Lee, 2003 http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/280.pdf http://www.afdc.doe.gov/altfuel/ediesel_general.html AFDC - E-diesel General Information Ventura Bus Lines On 1 December 2000, Ventura Bus Lines introduced the first two totally renewable fuelled buses into Australia. These buses operate from 100% ethanol, made from molasses, a by-product of sugar milling by CSR Distilleries. The ethanol is produced in the sugar belt of Queensland, Sarina, and shipped to Yarraville for refining, then delivered to our South Oakleigh Depot in the same fashion as diesel. Why Ventura Introduced Ethanol Powered Buses 1. To safeguard our air quality - up to 50% of the Greenhouse gases, CO2 are eliminated. 2. Reducing use of fossil fuels - sugar cane is renewable unlike Diesel, CNG and LPG. 3. Adding value to waste product - ethanol is fermenting material that is otherwise dumped. 4. Creating rural employment - through the growing of sugar cane. 5. Replacing imported fuel - purchasing an Australian made fuel. The ethanol buses are providing fantastic publicity for public transport. The launch was publicised on TV channels 2,7,10 and SBS news, as well as ABC, 3AW and all major FM radio stations. Bundaburg, Byron Bay and other rural radio stations also covered the launch, along with it being live on BBC London Radio and featured in the South China Press. Long Term Supply of Ethanol As ethanol is the base of so many household products, such as deodorants, alcoholic spirits, Methylated Spirits etc., its long term supply is very stable. Therefore there is no issue with future supply of ethanol and costs remain constant as new materials for fermentation are commercialised. Also there is no correlation with the likely substantial escalation of oil prices, as may occur with LPG. Performance of the Ethanol Buses Our customers are aware of the alternative fuel through signage on the buses, promotional literature and our web site editorial. We receive at least one telephone / email or letter each day supporting our recognition of the limited supply of fossil fuels and decreasing harmful greenhouse gases. Our bus drivers are keen to drive these buses. The responsiveness is the same as our newest Euro III buses and the engine is marginally quieter. The morning bus start up crew have reported a huge advantage of starting the ethanol buses compared to the fumes from diesel engines. Given that the engine is so similar to the diesel engine, our maintenance staff are also happy with the vehicles. The Outlays With a lower energy rating than diesel, the consumption of ethanol is much greater. We are attempting to get the Federal Government to recognise the benefits of ethanol and to treat it as an equal to LPG and CNG. Ventura has installed a customised fuelling station for the more flammable and corrosive ethanol storage and pumping, which could cater for another 30 ethanol buses. The Future There is very little accurate knowledge regarding the use of ethanol. Some organisations and countries are using ethanol, however are just tinkering around the edges by adding 15% ethanol to diesel (known as dieselhol), or adding ethanol to petrol, proving an insignificant reduction in
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil
Oops, sorry, forgot these two: Alcohol in diesel engines -- Have technology, will travel -- policy permitting ... India too can gradually implement alcohol fuel technology for automobiles -- first, as a blend in petrol cars, and subsequently as a sole fuel for both petrol and diesel vehicles. See: Alcohol-diesel technology: Recent advances http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/businessline/2001/07/11/stories/04 1167mu.htm http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Other/F447.htm Ethanol as Transport Fuel in Sweden In 1996, there will be approx. 300 heavy duty buses and trucks on the Swedish roads running on ethanol. Most of them are inner city buses using neat ethanol with additive for improved ignition. Some run on a diesel/ethanol mixture in fleet tests at five locations. Total consumption of ethanol to the buses will be about 12 000 m3 95 % ethanol/year. Best Keith Hi all, How can a diesel engine run on ethanol ? Hi Pieter The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel, Mathewson, 1980, Chapter 3, DIESEL ENGINES: Contrary to the opinion of most experts, diesel engines can be run on pure alcohol. The main problem is in the lubrication of the injectors. This is solved by the addition of 5-20% vegetable oil (or other suitable lubricant) to the alcohol. It is also possible to make a diesel gasohol with up to 80% alcohol. Since alcohol and oil will not mix when water is present, both the alcohol and the oil must be anhydrous. Different engines may also require adjustment of the metering pump for optimum performance. Diesel engines, especially turbocharged diesels, may also be run with an alcohol/water injection system as described later. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual3.html Buses running on pure ethanol Heavy vehicles with converted diesel engines are being run on pure ethanol, with a spark-improving additive. Major environmental benefits are less greenhouse gases and a reduction in exhaust fumes. There are about 400 ethanol-powered buses in Sweden, 250 of which operate in central Stockholm. Successful trials have also been conducted using ethanol-powered heavy trucks and refuse disposal vehicles. http://www.miljobilar.stockholm.se/english/branslen_etanol.asp Ethanol-Diesel Blends: A Step Towards A Bio-based Fuel For Diesel Engines, Hansen, Lyne, Qin, 2001 - includes some information ethanol corrosion, flash points, separation, etc. http://www.age.uiuc.edu/oree/e-diesel/Publications/infopub.pdf Fuel-Cycle Energy and Emission Impacts of Ethanol-Diesel Blends in Urban Buses and Farming Tractors, Wang, Saricks, Lee, 2003 http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/280.pdf http://www.afdc.doe.gov/altfuel/ediesel_general.html AFDC - E-diesel General Information Ventura Bus Lines On 1 December 2000, Ventura Bus Lines introduced the first two totally renewable fuelled buses into Australia. These buses operate from 100% ethanol, made from molasses, a by-product of sugar milling by CSR Distilleries. The ethanol is produced in the sugar belt of Queensland, Sarina, and shipped to Yarraville for refining, then delivered to our South Oakleigh Depot in the same fashion as diesel. Why Ventura Introduced Ethanol Powered Buses 1. To safeguard our air quality - up to 50% of the Greenhouse gases, CO2 are eliminated. 2. Reducing use of fossil fuels - sugar cane is renewable unlike Diesel, CNG and LPG. 3. Adding value to waste product - ethanol is fermenting material that is otherwise dumped. 4. Creating rural employment - through the growing of sugar cane. 5. Replacing imported fuel - purchasing an Australian made fuel. The ethanol buses are providing fantastic publicity for public transport. The launch was publicised on TV channels 2,7,10 and SBS news, as well as ABC, 3AW and all major FM radio stations. Bundaburg, Byron Bay and other rural radio stations also covered the launch, along with it being live on BBC London Radio and featured in the South China Press. Long Term Supply of Ethanol As ethanol is the base of so many household products, such as deodorants, alcoholic spirits, Methylated Spirits etc., its long term supply is very stable. Therefore there is no issue with future supply of ethanol and costs remain constant as new materials for fermentation are commercialised. Also there is no correlation with the likely substantial escalation of oil prices, as may occur with LPG. Performance of the Ethanol Buses Our customers are aware of the alternative fuel through signage on the buses, promotional literature and our web site editorial. We receive at least one telephone / email or letter each day supporting our recognition of the limited supply of fossil fuels and decreasing harmful greenhouse gases. Our bus drivers are keen to drive these buses. The responsiveness is the same as our newest Euro III buses and the engine is marginally quieter. The morning bus start up crew have reported
Re: [biofuel] BD as Lube oil for two stroke gasoline engine
Um, Keith? Isn't there a protocol here about outright nastiness? Outright nastiness? Maybe it's in the eye of the beholder Nathan, rather like the alleged mysogyny. Keith snip - Nathan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alternative Building
Hi Quinn, thank you for the link best regards Fritz [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Video Release
Huge Bus Now chronicles the adventures of the Sgrnge Utility Bus (SUB) and crew as they cross Canada diving and driving. www.thefishshow.com/HUGEBUS/HUGEBUSNOW.htm queries: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Battery EV - Frontal Charging
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 8:42 PM Subject: Battery powered EV - Frontal Charging To EV Designers or Producers: 1.All the available EV's and Chargers have the same mind-set as the Gasoline vehicles. With a nozzle on the side of the car, but most of the chargers are standing right in front of each EV's! Drivers have to pull the nozzle toward the sides of the cars to charge their vehicles!?? 2.When we have bulky battery pack on board a vehicle, you have to find other ways to charge the battery packs faster! The biggest problem for battery powered EV 's is the time consuming charging! Toyota RAV4-EV has 30 x NiMh batteries and that takes 4 hours to charge up! If you divided up the 30 batteries into 10 portable battery packs! 1)We can charge the now removable battery packs in 10 separate outlets then it will take only 24 minutes to charge the battery packs! Build a wall full of these outlets, insert these portable packs and pay 1-2 quarters to charge up! And owners can have another set to replace the low energy pack, leaving the used pack to be charged up at homes or offices! 2)You can design the EV's to have a front charger, even your battery pack may locate in the back of the car. Divide them into 10 packs. Wire them to have charging receptacle in the front of the EV's! We can build car ports with chargers in front of each parking spaces, The EV charger heads have 10 contact points, when you park your EV's in each parking space! Flip open the front lid, expose the receptacle to meet the charger! +/- to +/- After they are tightly connected, turn on the switch to allow current to flow into the battery packs! Image the wireless phone receivers, we have to leave them on the charger stands to recharge? So we can use this multiple contact point chargers to charge up the divided battery packs. Instead of wiring batteries to have only one receptacle like the gasoline car with it's gas tank? We can free ourselves from that concept, but using a more powerful charger! Cut down the time of recharge from 4 hours to 20-30 minutes! My original idea to back up the car to allow the battery pack in the back of vehicles to meet the charger was wrong. Some drivers could not back up properly, frontal charging is the only possibility! GEM(NEV) has very good design, but only 25MPH. Reinvent your battery pack and get a better DC motors. 75-100MPH and range 150-200Miles, it will be a real car. 2.Solar Carports Because we are building this type of new structures, the DC current can supply power to these EV chargers. So when you design the chargers, please allow them both AC and DC operable! Solar array can supply 24-48VDC to charge up EV's DC battery packs, without converting to AC! 4.Frontal Charging Every parking spaces can leave rooms to have a charger with this faster and more powerful chargers Must have universal spec for this frontal charger, so EV/Charger/Carport manufacturers have the same set of spec! 5.PV+EV The new type of InGaN cells(Indium-Gallium-Nitride) cell has an efficiency of 56% vs the silicon 14-18%! It can be applied to curved surfaces or windows! Vehicles can be covered with PV and the cost is 60% cheaper than silicon PV! This is important for trailers, RV's! When there is no gas stations! Leaving your vehicles under the Sun to recharge the battery pack is a way out of an emergency! Even military vehicles can be benefited from sunlight charging if moving out of supply lines! In case we have a EV with 1)Li-Polymer Battery packs(or other advanced new type) with 200 or more miles range 2)Covered with efficient flexible PV to get charged in day time! 3)Plus one set of spare battery packs 4)Faster charger electric stations both commercial or at homes/offices. Day or night! 6.Hydrogen or Compressed air are both more expensive energy forms. Electricity is popular and abundant, just don't burn more coals for this increase need for fuel usage. Apply more renewable energy to generate more electricity, we will be okay! To eliminate the negativities of car, oil consumption and air pollutions. Finally the tailpipes on any cars will be history! Anybody has a better idea, please share your thoughts!
