Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Recovery?
Mike Weaver wrote: HI MY NAME IS MIKE AND I HAVE A METHANOL PROBLEM. snip Thanks, I needed a good grin! doug swanson -- Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
You're talking about 2 different things. Talking about so-and-so-much vacuum is sort of misleading. Your 30Hg of vacuum means 0Hg (0 mmHg, 0 mbar, 0 psi) absolute pressure; the vapor pressure points were absolute pressure. Absolute pressure is measured according to how high of a column of mercury it can push upwards with a complete vacuum at the top, gauged pressure with atmospheric at the top. 29.92Hg (760 mmHg, 1013.25 mbar, 14.7 psi) is standard atmospheric pressure at sea level, so that's the maximum height you can pull up mercury with a vacuum if the other end is exposed to air pressure at standard conditions, which means the vacuum reading will vary slightly according to the weather, even if the actual measured pressure stays constant. Absolute pressure is atmospheric pressure minus vacuum. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Study Hits EPA Plan to Censor Community Pollution Reports
Yet in California WVO is so dangerous that it needs a special license and 1 million dollars worth of insurance to even touch it. I wonder why it is not illegal to transport 35 lbs of SVO? Logically, it is the same stuff. And what do I do with my used turkey fryer oil? I wonder if the big rendering companies will come get it? I don't want to break this important law. Anyone on this list live in CA?? Study Hits EPA Plan to Censor Community Pollution Reports http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137447634.news The study's finding that EPA should be tracking a wider array of these persistent, bioaccumulating substances comes as the Bush Administration is proposing to do just the opposite. A pending EPA plan, subject to public comment until Jan. 13, would sharply curtail a citizens' right to know critical information about pollutants in their communities. full article http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137447634.news Many States Oppose Bush Pollution Plan http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137446547.news Houston TX - So far, twelve states have voiced opposition to the Bush administration's plan to ease rules on reporting legal toxin releases. Attorney generals representing the twelve states, said in a letter addressed to the EPA, that the Bush administration's pollution plan compromises the public's right to know about possible health risks in their neighborhoods full article http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137446547.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Methanol recovery
Crystal Methanol has affected my spelling abilitie. Otherwise, I agree completely with Pieter. Amazing Keith, that you put any time in stupid articles like this man wrote. How can you keep your patients ? Greetings, Pieter. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Recovery? HI MY NAME IS MIKE AND I HAVE A METHANOL PROBLEM. HI MIKE! I first began using methanol just on the weekends. A few bottles of dry gas here and there, just enought to make myself feel better about my fuel usage. Then it got to be too expensive to buy methanol in little bottles and I began to buy boxes of HEET. I drove all over town just to save a few cents on a case. Soon, as I began to feel better and better, and my VW ran better and better. I am ashamed to say I even got my friends involved. We snuck around behind seamy restaurants, liberating oil. We pretended to have drain problems so we could buy lye. We began to just want to be by ourselves, cooking our little batches. We egged each other on. Soon we had quite a litle crowd. Little bottles didn't cut it anymore. One of my buddies knew a guy who could get 5 gallon jugs. Suddenly life was good again. We built bigger and better works. We got brazen. We drove around stinking of oil - Thai food, French Fries and peanut oil. We started to meet the higher ups in the methanol trade. We did a deal and scored 55 gallons. We had quite a racket going. We though we were untouchable. Then it all came crashing down. There was an intervention. Nice white men is suits explained over and over how methanol leads to the destruction of the US economy. Good people at ExxonMobil, Shell and Sunoco would be out of work. They explained how we were a major factor in the collapse of the SUV industry, and the dire condition of GM and Ford. We felt bad. Today I am a happy member of society. I have an SUV and heat my house with petroleum. I drive work from the suburbs. Let my story be a warning to you all: One little bottel of methanol can lead to not just your downfall, but the wholesale collapse of all we hold dear. The American way of life is a blessed one. Be strong against the forces of darkness that seek to mislead you. Do not follow Keith. He is a false prophet. He lives on a mountain in Japan, preaching self-sufficiency. Little do most people know he is really the head of an evil cartel that has huge holdings in methanol, lye and vegetable oil. You have been warned! Oh, he has also cornered the market in Phenopthalein. It's not a false profit, how can you say such a thing? It's true that we did try to corner the market in that stuff but it didn't work because we couldn't spell it right either. Please make sure you get your facts straight next time before you start accusing innocent people of living on mountains and so on. And I don't preach self-sufficiency, all I said was I vunt to be alone. But thanks for asking people not to follow me up here at least. Be Strong! Hmph. Best Keith -Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists. org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] ECUADOR: Selling the Amazon for a Handful of Beads
This really got my attention.[snip]"The contracts come to light as an oil boom bears down on the Ecuadorian Amazon. Ecuador's 100,000 square kilometers of the world's richest rainforests unfortunately sit atop 4.4 billion proven barrels of oil, the 26th largest reserve in the world."[snip]Mike___ECUADOR: Selling the Amazon for a Handful of Beads(http://corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13115) byKelly Hearn,AlterNetJanuary 17th, 2006 Scanning bookshelves in his tiny law office in Quito, Ecuador, Bolivar Beltran's disdain for Big Oil is as legible as the contracts that map their nefarious ways."These were all negotiated in secret," says the soft-spoken attorney and Ecuadorian congressional aide, explaining how he used a lawsuit last year to obtain pages of once-classified contracts between the Ecuadorian military and 16 multinational oil companies.In November, when I visited him, Beltran handed me a grainy photocopy of a contract dated 2001. Then another bearing an official government seal. Soon a small table is covered, his finger running down keywords that spill off the page. Occidental Oil. Ecuadorian Ministry of Defense. Counterintelligence. Kerr-McGee. Armed Patrols. Military detachments. Burlington Resources.The contracts come to light as an oil boom bears down on the Ecuadorian Amazon. Ecuador's 100,000 square kilometers of the world's richest rainforests unfortunately sit atop 4.4 billion proven barrels of oil, the 26th largest reserve in the world. Since the 1960s, state and private companies have taken oil from Ecuador's eastern province, known as the Oriente, and sent much of it to the United States, leaving behind environmental and public health disasters. And on top of all else, serious poverty: Despite their country's vast natural resources, 70 percent of Ecuadorians live below the poverty line.Impoverished, in debt and dependent on petro-dollars for revenues, the Ecuadorian government has put some 80 percent of its oil-flush lands up for international grabs, according to Amazon Watch, a California-based watchdog group. Oil companies are given subsoil rights by the government, but by law must negotiate with the pre-industrial societies that hold title to jungle lands -- tribes like the Huarani, the Achuar and the Shauar tribes, some of which have only come into contact with the modern world in recent decades.Too often, the tribes' introduction to modernity comes from oil company negotiators. By finessing them into signing away oil access in morally deplorable contracts, these deals channel the legendary purchase of Manhattan island for $24 worth of trinkets. But they are learning fast. Increasingly savvy to the oilman's ways, tribes here are putting on war paint, grabbing spears and shotguns, and saying no, sometimes violently, to the world's most powerful interests.Against that backdrop of rising tension, these previously unpublished contracts, including classified agreements between the Ecuadorian military and 16 oil companies, are changing the debate. The bulk of the documents, obtained by Beltran and verified by this reporter in November, offer what experts say is an extremely rare and detailed look at how cut-throat capitalism and an oil-guided militarization of the Ecuadorian Amazon are digging deep rifts through the country.Sealing the deal with a fingerprint"This one is one of the worst," Beltran says, handing me an eight-page contract.In 2001, Agip Oil Ecuador BV, a subsidiary of the multibillion dollar Italian petrochemical company Eni, convinced an association of Huarani Indians to sign over oil access to tribal lands and give up their future right to sue for environmental damage. In return Agip gave, among other things, modest allotments of medicine and food, a $3,500 school house, plates and cups, an Ecuadorian flag, two soccer balls and a referee's whistle.Indicative of the vast gulf in cultures, two of the tribal representatives signed the document with fingerprints.Other contracts, some marked classified, are signed by multinational oil companies and the Ecuadorian military. Activists and attorneys interviewed for this story say the documents prove the Ecuadorian army has become a private security force for oil companies, one obligated to patrol vast swaths of jungle lands while engaging, and spying on, Ecuadorian citizens opposed to oil operations.The contracts I reviewed typically required companies to provide money and nonlethal logistical support such as food and fuel in exchange for military protection of staff and facilities in remote jungle areas.But some go even further.In July 2001, a "master agreement" was signed between the Ecuadorian Ministry of Defense and 16 oil companies, including Petroecuador, the state oil company, and U.S.-based companies Kerr-McGee, Burlington Resources and Occidental Oil. Covering a duration of five years, the document is stamped "Reservado" -- classified. Its
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
Hi John; Ok I can see right off the bat where the confusion is comming from. There is a discrepancy in the way these units are expressed because the vapour pressure is expressed as just that - pressure. Vacuum is expressed using the same units but in a negative sense ie 30" vacuum is the same as 0mm Hg and 30"hg pressure (absolute that is ) is atmosphere or 0mm vacuum. However we often talk about vacuum using units of absolute pressure just to make it confusing. You are right 0 mm HG is impossible to obtain unless you could get to absolute zero temperature which is also tough. However we can get to quite low pressure and microns refers to mercury measurements as well, a micron being one millionth of a meter of mercury, an order lower than mm Hg. Many decent mechanical vacuum pumps can go to the micron level but that is way beyond what is needed for drying oil and esters. When looking at vacuum pump specs you might also come across units called Torr. One atmosphere pressure is 760 Torr and often pumps are specified in units of millitorr. (for home sized batches) Look for something that has a few CFM capacity at 28" Hg vacuum or (760/30 * 2") roughly 50 Torr. The best thing is if you can get ahold of the throughput curve for the pump. Look for manufacturers datasheets for the pump and you will see a curve with pressure on the domain (x) and pumping speed or capacity on the range(y). As the pump approaches it's ultimate vacuum the speed drops off dramatically (this will be near the origin of the graph). You want to be operating somewhere along the steep section of the curve. Getting up near the top (flat section) means your pump is (too small) working really hard and you will likely blow a lot of your lubricating oil up the exhaust stack. On the other hand selecting a pump that is overkill is wasting money but will get the job done in a hurry! HTH Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back to Science class! Vacuum- I have worked very little with vacuum. While in the Navy, I was learning OJT a little about refrigeration. At that time I was taught inches of Hg. and 30"Hg is the max but extremely hard or impossible to achieve. 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg .25"Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg4.33"Hg If H2O is 18 and Hg is 200.59, Hg is 11.14 time heavier .25" Hg = 2.785 " water 4.33" Hg = 48.24 " water Where does micron come in? Dave Miller spoke of an old scientific pump you had that went to 002mm Hg. Scientific pump suggests to a very good pump, but .002 sounds like very little vacuum. (unless zero is not the same place). He also mentioned I should look for a 50? I am sure this will become quite clear, but now, it's not sinking in. Thanks John - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. David Miller wrote: Snip Somebody had the vapor pressure tables for water earlier in this thread, maybe he could look up the pressure for 55 and 5 degrees C. --- David 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg It means that water does not have to be removed from the trap (as was stated ) since water at 5 deg.C has a vapour pressure low enogh as not to interfere with drying the fuel. It will never be perfectly dry and even if you could, it would adsorb water from the air when you take it out of the vacuum chamber. In practical terms just run cold water through your condenser and when the vacuum in the reactor gets to 27" Hg or better you are done! I do it all the time. It works well. I reheat the reactor during washing and after draining the last wash the vacuum is started. An hour later the fuel is dry, crystal clear and ready to use. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "journeytoforever.org" claiming to be http://journeytoforeverorg/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Recovery?
Keith! You live on a mountain in Japan? How are you coping with all the snow dude? Last I heard 4m fell. Be vewwwy qwiet while you tiptoe around ok? It wouldn't do to have a few megatons of snow come and wipe you off the mountain! J ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ECUADOR: Selling the Amazon for a Handful of Beads
Interesting. But compared to world use, 4.4 billion barrels is not all that much. Suadi Arabia claims to have 260 billion, and probably actually has at least 100 or 150 billion. They are currently pumping almost 2 billion a year. On 1/18/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This really got my attention.[snip]The contracts come to light as an oil boom bears down on the Ecuadorian Amazon. Ecuador's 100,000 square kilometers of the world's richest rainforests unfortunately sit atop 4.4 billion proven barrels of oil, the 26th largest reserve in the world.[snip]Mike___ ECUADOR: Selling the Amazon for a Handful of Beads( http://corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13115) byKelly Hearn,AlterNet January 17th, 2006 Scanning bookshelves in his tiny law office in Quito, Ecuador, Bolivar Beltran's disdain for Big Oil is as legible as the contracts that map their nefarious ways. These were all negotiated in secret, says the soft-spoken attorney and Ecuadorian congressional aide, explaining how he used a lawsuit last year to obtain pages of once-classified contracts between the Ecuadorian military and 16 multinational oil companies. In November, when I visited him, Beltran handed me a grainy photocopy of a contract dated 2001. Then another bearing an official government seal. Soon a small table is covered, his finger running down keywords that spill off the page. Occidental Oil. Ecuadorian Ministry of Defense. Counterintelligence. Kerr-McGee. Armed Patrols. Military detachments. Burlington Resources. The contracts come to light as an oil boom bears down on the Ecuadorian Amazon. Ecuador's 100,000 square kilometers of the world's richest rainforests unfortunately sit atop 4.4 billion proven barrels of oil, the 26th largest reserve in the world. Since the 1960s, state and private companies have taken oil from Ecuador's eastern province, known as the Oriente, and sent much of it to the United States, leaving behind environmental and public health disasters. And on top of all else, serious poverty: Despite their country's vast natural resources, 70 percent of Ecuadorians live below the poverty line. Impoverished, in debt and dependent on petro-dollars for revenues, the Ecuadorian government has put some 80 percent of its oil-flush lands up for international grabs, according to Amazon Watch, a California-based watchdog group. Oil companies are given subsoil rights by the government, but by law must negotiate with the pre-industrial societies that hold title to jungle lands -- tribes like the Huarani, the Achuar and the Shauar tribes, some of which have only come into contact with the modern world in recent decades.Too often, the tribes' introduction to modernity comes from oil company negotiators. By finessing them into signing away oil access in morally deplorable contracts, these deals channel the legendary purchase of Manhattan island for $24 worth of trinkets. But they are learning fast. Increasingly savvy to the oilman's ways, tribes here are putting on war paint, grabbing spears and shotguns, and saying no, sometimes violently, to the world's most powerful interests. Against that backdrop of rising tension, these previously unpublished contracts, including classified agreements between the Ecuadorian military and 16 oil companies, are changing the debate. The bulk of the documents, obtained by Beltran and verified by this reporter in November, offer what experts say is an extremely rare and detailed look at how cut-throat capitalism and an oil-guided militarization of the Ecuadorian Amazon are digging deep rifts through the country.Sealing the deal with a fingerprintThis one is one of the worst, Beltran says, handing me an eight-page contract. In 2001, Agip Oil Ecuador BV, a subsidiary of the multibillion dollar Italian petrochemical company Eni, convinced an association of Huarani Indians to sign over oil access to tribal lands and give up their future right to sue for environmental damage. In return Agip gave, among other things, modest allotments of medicine and food, a $3,500 school house, plates and cups, an Ecuadorian flag, two soccer balls and a referee's whistle. Indicative of the vast gulf in cultures, two of the tribal representatives signed the document with fingerprints.Other contracts, some marked classified, are signed by multinational oil companies and the Ecuadorian military. Activists and attorneys interviewed for this story say the documents prove the Ecuadorian army has become a private security force for oil companies, one obligated to patrol vast swaths of jungle lands while engaging, and spying on, Ecuadorian citizens opposed to oil operations.The contracts I reviewed typically required companies to provide money and nonlethal logistical support such as food and fuel in exchange for military protection of staff and facilities in remote jungle areas. But some go even further.In July 2001, a master agreement was
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back to Science class! Vacuum- I have worked very little with vacuum. While in the Navy, I was learning OJT a little about refrigeration. At that time I was taught inches of Hg. and 30Hg is the max but extremely hard or impossible to achieve. One of the problems is that inches of vacuum is measured relative to the atmosphere, and thus depends on atmospheric pressure. The atmospheric pressure is often well below 30 and so a 30 vacuum is often impossible to obtain. 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg .25Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg4.33Hg If H2O is 18 and Hg is 200.59, Hg is 11.14 time heavier .25 Hg = 2.785 water 4.33 Hg = 48.24 water Those sound about right. An atmosphere is ~30 mercury and ~30 feet of water. Where does micron come in? When you get to the kind of scientific pump that Joe Street has you can start measuring things in microns. One mm Hg is the pressure that a layer of mercury a single millimeter high produces. In high vacuum applications you'll see this referred to as a torr. A micron is 1/1000 of a mm. A torr is also about 1.3 mBar where a Bar = a standard atmosphere. Dave Miller spoke of an old scientific pump you had that went to 002mm Hg. Scientific pump suggests to a very good pump, but .002 sounds like very little vacuum. (unless zero is not the same place). He also mentioned I should look for a 50? I am sure this will become quite clear, but now, it's not sinking in. you in this case being Joe Street. I forget who made his pump, but those kinds of pumps are usually rated below a micron and actually deliver something more like 5 - 10 micron. Yes, they actually pump down to about 5 millionths of an atmosphere, and are commonly used for things like evacuating the glass tubes when making neon signs. No, you don't need anywhere near this level of vacuum for dewatering BD. I chipped in because I know something about vacuums and wanted to try to help:) FWIW, a micron or so is only considered a medium vacuum for scientific purposes. Other kinds of vacuum pumps start here (10 ^ -3 torr) and go down by a factor of at least another million (10 ^ -9 torr). Supercollidors and such pull a huge ring down to 10 ^ -10 torr. And the vacuum of space is still far emptier than this. I'm not sure what you're referring to in I should look for a 50. I'd suggest looking for a dry pump that doesn't require oil lubrication. These are commonly used for refridgeration or freeze drying of food, should go to the required vacuum levels, and should last a long time. Scientific pumps generally don't like that kind of water vapor. The key to the operation is to have the fuel hot and a cool place for it to condense. You don't have to pump all the water vapor out, just create the conditions where the water will boil out of the fuel and condense in the condensor. That means a vacuum of 25 - 27 inches. HTH, --- David Thanks John - Original Message - *From:* Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. David Miller wrote: Snip Somebody had the vapor pressure tables for water earlier in this thread, maybe he could look up the pressure for 55 and 5 degrees C. --- David 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg It means that water does not have to be removed from the trap (as was stated ) since water at 5 deg.C has a vapour pressure low enogh as not to interfere with drying the fuel. It will never be perfectly dry and even if you could, it would adsorb water from the air when you take it out of the vacuum chamber. In practical terms just run cold water through your condenser and when the vacuum in the reactor gets to 27 Hg or better you are done! I do it all the time. It works well. I reheat the reactor during washing and after draining the last wash the vacuum is started. An hour later the fuel is dry, crystal clear and ready to use. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from journeytoforever.org claiming to be* http://journeytoforeverorg/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
- Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. Those sound about right. An atmosphere is ~30 mercury and ~30 feet of water. Just in case anyone is useing it for measurements. One atsmophere of water is 33 feet. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
inline David Miller wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back to Science class! Vacuum- I have worked very little with vacuum. While in the Navy, I was learning OJT a little about refrigeration. At that time I was taught inches of Hg. and 30Hg is the max but extremely hard or impossible to achieve. One of the problems is that inches of vacuum is measured relative to the atmosphere, and thus depends on atmospheric pressure. The atmospheric pressure is often well below 30 and so a 30 vacuum is often impossible to obtain. 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg .25Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg4.33Hg If H2O is 18 and Hg is 200.59, Hg is 11.14 time heavier .25 Hg = 2.785 water 4.33 Hg = 48.24 water Those sound about right. An atmosphere is ~30 mercury and ~30 feet of water. Where does micron come in? When you get to the kind of scientific pump that Joe Street has you can start measuring things in microns. One mm Hg is the pressure that a layer of mercury a single millimeter high produces. In high vacuum applications you'll see this referred to as a torr. A micron is 1/1000 of a mm. A torr is also about 1.3 mBar where a Bar = a standard atmosphere. Dave Miller spoke of an old scientific pump you had that went to 002mm Hg. Scientific pump suggests to a very good pump, but .002 sounds like very little vacuum. (unless zero is not the same place). He also mentioned I should look for a 50? I am sure this will become quite clear, but now, it's not sinking in. you in this case being Joe Street. I forget who made his pump, but those kinds of pumps are usually rated below a micron and actually deliver something more like 5 - 10 micron. Yes, they actually pump down to about 5 millionths of an atmosphere, and are commonly used for things like evacuating the glass tubes when making neon signs. No, you don't need anywhere near this level of vacuum for dewatering BD. I chipped in because I know something about vacuums and wanted to try to help:) FWIW, a micron or so is only considered a medium vacuum for scientific purposes. Other kinds of vacuum pumps start here (10 ^ -3 torr) and go down by a factor of at least another million (10 ^ -9 torr). Supercollidors and such pull a huge ring down to 10 ^ -10 torr. And the vacuum of space is still far emptier than this. I'm not sure what you're referring to in I should look for a 50. I'd suggest looking for a dry pump that doesn't require oil lubrication. These are commonly used for refridgeration or freeze drying of food, should go to the required vacuum levels, and should last a long time. Scientific pumps generally don't like that kind of water vapor. Would a home grade vacuum sealer (for food bag + jars) be sufficient? I have seen many older units at yard sales (wife wont let me get near her new one that does bottles/jars!) The key to the operation is to have the fuel hot and a cool place for it to condense. You don't have to pump all the water vapor out, just create the conditions where the water will boil out of the fuel and condense in the condensor. That means a vacuum of 25 - 27 inches. That sounds easy enough with a few pipes and some peltiers. How cold does the surface need to be for condensing water in a 25~27 inch vacuum? What about boiling temp? I know boiling temp goes down as the atmospheric pressure goes down but I do not know scale. Is there a online chart showing this? What kind of vessel would be needed for a 25~27 inch vacuum (and so I am sure, that is a negative PSI rating yes?) HTH, --- David Thanks John - Original Message - *From:* Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. David Miller wrote: Snip Somebody had the vapor pressure tables for water earlier in this thread, maybe he could look up the pressure for 55 and 5 degrees C. --- David 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg It means that water does not have to be removed from the trap (as was stated ) since water at 5 deg.C has a vapour pressure low enogh as not to interfere with drying the fuel. It will never be perfectly dry and even if you could, it would adsorb water from the air when you take it out of the vacuum chamber. In practical terms just run cold water through your condenser and when the vacuum in the reactor gets to 27 Hg or better you are done! I do it all the time. It works well. I reheat the reactor during washing and after draining the last wash the vacuum is started. An hour later the fuel is dry, crystal clear and ready to use. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
Well said, but a higher vacuum can be pulled when below sea level and it will read lower when above sea level. So it would be best to know your baramic pressure before determining what your vacuum needs to be. Forpeople above sea levelthey don't have to get as high ofa vacuume because they are already at a lower pressure. If you're up on a mountainit will be even easier. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Arttu Aula To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. You're talking about 2 different things.Talking about so-and-so-much vacuum is sort of misleading. Your 30"Hg of vacuum means 0"Hg (0 mmHg, 0 mbar, 0 psi) absolute pressure; the vapor pressure points were absolute pressure. Absolute pressure is measured according to how high of a column of mercury it can push upwards with a complete vacuum at the top, gauged pressure with atmospheric at the top. 29.92"Hg (760 mmHg, 1013.25 mbar, 14.7 psi) is standard atmospheric pressure at sea level, so that's the maximum height you can pull up mercury with a vacuum if the other end is exposed to air pressure at standard conditions, which means the vacuum reading will vary slightly according to the weather, even if the actual measured pressure stays constant. Absolute pressure is atmospheric pressure minus vacuum. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ECUADOR: Selling the Amazon for a Handful of Beads
I certainly agree with you...today.MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting. But compared to world use, 4.4 billion barrels is not all that much. Suadi Arabia claims to have 260 billion, and probably actually has at least 100 or 150 billion. They are currently pumping almost 2 billion a year. On 1/18/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This really got my attention.[snip]"The contracts come to light as an oil boom bears down on the Ecuadorian Amazon. Ecuador's 100,000 square kilometers of the world's richest rainforests unfortunately sit atop 4.4 billion proven barrels of oil, the 26th largest reserve in the world."[snip]Mike___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
Atmospheric pressure varies by a fraction of an inch (except for at the eye of a hurricane and then dewatering your oil is less important!) logan vilas wrote: Well said, but a higher vacuum can be pulled when below sea level and it will read lower when above sea level. So it would be best to know your baramic pressure before determining what your vacuum needs to be. Forpeople above sea levelthey don't have to get as high ofa vacuume because they are already at a lower pressure. If you're up on a mountainit will be even easier. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Arttu Aula To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. You're talking about 2 different things. Talking about so-and-so-much vacuum is sort of misleading. Your 30"Hg of vacuum means 0"Hg (0 mmHg, 0 mbar, 0 psi) absolute pressure; the vapor pressure points were absolute pressure. Absolute pressure is measured according to how high of a column of mercury it can push upwards with a complete vacuum at the top, gauged pressure with atmospheric at the top. 29.92"Hg (760 mmHg, 1013.25 mbar, 14.7 psi) is standard atmospheric pressure at sea level, so that's the maximum height you can pull up mercury with a vacuum if the other end is exposed to air pressure at standard conditions, which means the vacuum reading will vary slightly according to the weather, even if the actual measured pressure stays constant. Absolute pressure is atmospheric pressure minus vacuum. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol recovery
Crystal Methanol has affected my spelling abilitie. Otherwise, I agree completely with Pieter. But what choice did you leave me, other than to have innocent people believing that we'd cornered the world supply of phenomenalfailure, which simply isn't true, the White House owns it. Amazing Keith, that you put any time in stupid articles like this man wrote. How can you keep your patients ? Bursts of manic laughter help a lot! Best Keith Greetings, Pieter. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Recovery? HI MY NAME IS MIKE AND I HAVE A METHANOL PROBLEM. HI MIKE! I first began using methanol just on the weekends. A few bottles of dry gas here and there, just enought to make myself feel better about my fuel usage. Then it got to be too expensive to buy methanol in little bottles and I began to buy boxes of HEET. I drove all over town just to save a few cents on a case. Soon, as I began to feel better and better, and my VW ran better and better. I am ashamed to say I even got my friends involved. We snuck around behind seamy restaurants, liberating oil. We pretended to have drain problems so we could buy lye. We began to just want to be by ourselves, cooking our little batches. We egged each other on. Soon we had quite a litle crowd. Little bottles didn't cut it anymore. One of my buddies knew a guy who could get 5 gallon jugs. Suddenly life was good again. We built bigger and better works. We got brazen. We drove around stinking of oil - Thai food, French Fries and peanut oil. We started to meet the higher ups in the methanol trade. We did a deal and scored 55 gallons. We had quite a racket going. We though we were untouchable. Then it all came crashing down. There was an intervention. Nice white men is suits explained over and over how methanol leads to the destruction of the US economy. Good people at ExxonMobil, Shell and Sunoco would be out of work. They explained how we were a major factor in the collapse of the SUV industry, and the dire condition of GM and Ford. We felt bad. Today I am a happy member of society. I have an SUV and heat my house with petroleum. I drive work from the suburbs. Let my story be a warning to you all: One little bottel of methanol can lead to not just your downfall, but the wholesale collapse of all we hold dear. The American way of life is a blessed one. Be strong against the forces of darkness that seek to mislead you. Do not follow Keith. He is a false prophet. He lives on a mountain in Japan, preaching self-sufficiency. Little do most people know he is really the head of an evil cartel that has huge holdings in methanol, lye and vegetable oil. You have been warned! Oh, he has also cornered the market in Phenopthalein. It's not a false profit, how can you say such a thing? It's true that we did try to corner the market in that stuff but it didn't work because we couldn't spell it right either. Please make sure you get your facts straight next time before you start accusing innocent people of living on mountains and so on. And I don't preach self-sufficiency, all I said was I vunt to be alone. But thanks for asking people not to follow me up here at least. Be Strong! Hmph. Best Keith -Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Recovery?
Keith! You live on a mountain in Japan? Indeed I do Joe, at least Weaver got something right, LOL! How are you coping with all the snow dude? Last I heard 4m fell. 7m in some places. It's killed about a hundred people in Japan so far. Not so bad here though, much worse in the north. Be vewwwy qwiet while you tiptoe around ok? It wouldn't do to have a few megatons of snow come and wipe you off the mountain! I agree! But the snow's gone now. We were under about a meter of snow for a month, very cold! Coldest December in 20 years or something. But the thaw came on Saturday and the snow melted. Now it's cold again and it just started snowing. I'm sure there'll be at least one more cold spell. We can handle the cold here, unlike our previous place, 18 months ago. That old wreck of a house was just too rotten, the weather went straight through it, very miserable when it froze over, difficult to do anything except try to keep warm, or to get warm rather. This is the same kind of 100-year-old farmhouse, but it's not rotten. We finished most of what we had to do before the snows came, nearly all of it in fact, complicated things with fields and pastures and grains and chickens and so on. Looks good, so far. Thanks for asking Joe. Regards Keith J ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] NIMBY needs a sock stuffed in it relative to wind/alternative energy
He's sued and written and organized with passion and prowess. But his op-ed on Cape Wind, with its (risible) fear that the windmills might be heard ashore, showed that he hadn't quite understood just /how/ critical the need to get the U.S. off fossil fuels really is. http://www.grist.org/comments/soapbox/2006/01/12/mckibben/index.html No More Mr. Nice Guy Climate change is pushing this easygoing enviro over the edge By Bill McKibben 12 Jan 2006 The one and only time I ever saw my mother become aggressive in public went like this. We were out as a family for a weekend leaf-peeping drive, an impulse apparently shared by most of the rest of New England, because the traffic along New Hampshire's Kancamagus Highway was endless 90-degree gridlock. Every once in a while, however, somebody would zoom happily by in the breakdown lane. We watched them with a kind of mounting zealous anger. It would never have occurred to my parents to emulate them -- that would have been wrong. But eventually my mother, sitting in the passenger seat, could take it no longer. She rolled down the window of our Plymouth, stuck out her head, shook her finger at one of the passing lawbreakers, and yelled ... Unpleasant! I'm by nature a conflict avoider too -- if you're thinking of cutting in line at the supermarket, you couldn't ask for an easier mark than me. But twice last week I acted in ways entirely out of character. I signed a letter http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/1/6/193649/7888 criticizing Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for his /New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/opinion/16kennedy.html?ex=1292389200en=58e5dd67e381fd58ei=5090partner=rssuserlandemc=rss/ op-ed opposing the big Cape Wind project http://www.capewind.org/. And I wrote a few paragraphs http://www.adirondackexplorer.com/aenviros.htm disparaging the most powerful of my local environmental groups, the Adirondack Council http://www.adirondackcouncil.org/, for the way they'd worked on clean-air issues. Both criticisms were respectful -- I am my mother's son -- but they were also stern. I wouldn't have enjoyed being on the receiving end of either one (though a lifetime of book writing does tend to inure you to bad reviews http://www.salon.com/books/sneaks/1998/12/21sneaks.html). They were also, at some level, divisive. In both cases, you could truthfully say I was willing to inflict a little damage on an important part of the environmental movement. It doesn't mean, I hope, that I'm growing a mean streak. I think it means something else: that the environmental movement is reaching an important point of division, between those who truly /get/ global warming, and those who don't. By /get/, I don't mean understanding the chemistry of carbon dioxide, or the importance of the Kyoto Protocol, or something like that -- pretty much everyone who thinks of themselves as an environmentalist has reached that point. By get, I mean understanding that the question is of transcending urgency, that it represents the one overarching global civilizational challenge that humans have ever faced. That it's as big as the Bomb. In The Same Vein The Wind and the Willful http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/01/12/capecod/index.html RFK Jr. and other prominent enviros face off over Cape Cod wind farm Do I think Bobby Kennedy Jr. http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/07/13/griscom-kennedy/index.html is a bad environmentalist? No, I think he's a great environmentalist. I've heard him convert 400 Republicans at one fell swoop in the auditorium of my Adirondack high-school gym. Hell, by helping establish the Hudson Riverkeeper http://riverkeeper.org/, the guy added a whole new /class of words/ to our vocabulary -- now there are baykeepers and airkeepers and summitkeepers. He's sued and written and organized with passion and prowess. But his op-ed on Cape Wind, with its (risible) fear that the windmills might be heard ashore, showed that he hadn't quite understood just /how/ critical the need to get the U.S. off fossil fuels really is. In the face of that need, even possible damage to the livelihoods of commercial fishers is distinctly secondary. If someone were proposing to erect a giant blender in Nantucket Sound so yachtsmen could obtain frozen margaritas more conveniently, then Bobby would be right to object, and the rest of us would go along with him. Instead, they're talking about the nation's first big offshore wind complex, one that would in effect allow residents of Cape Cod to use electricity nine months of the year without emitting a single carbon atom. If we had decades to burn, then he'd also doubtless be right that there's a better site for the thing, and a nicer developer. There's /always/ a better site and a nicer developer. But in the real world, according to Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, we have at most 10 years to reverse this trend. Which means we have
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
To remove water at 55C your pump has to remove 11(at sea level)times the atsmopheric volume of your container before you get to a low enough vacuum to boil off water. If your atsmophericpressure is 0.13 PSI lowerat your level.Then yourmultiplier is only 10 times, and if it's .29 PSI lower it is 9 times. At sea level 1 cubic foot of free air in your vessel will result in 11cfm that your pump has to move and if just a small amount of uncondensed water goes through your pump that can add up very quickely. Then If your pump is not 100% efficent that adds another multiplier. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. Atmospheric pressure varies by a fraction of an inch (except for at the eye of a hurricane and then dewatering your oil is less important!)logan vilas wrote: Well said, but a higher vacuum can be pulled when below sea level and it will read lower when above sea level. So it would be best to know your baramic pressure before determining what your vacuum needs to be. Forpeople above sea levelthey don't have to get as high ofa vacuume because they are already at a lower pressure. If you're up on a mountainit will be even easier. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Arttu Aula To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. You're talking about 2 different things.Talking about so-and-so-much vacuum is sort of misleading. Your 30"Hg of vacuum means 0"Hg (0 mmHg, 0 mbar, 0 psi) absolute pressure; the vapor pressure points were absolute pressure. Absolute pressure is measured according to how high of a column of mercury it can push upwards with a complete vacuum at the top, gauged pressure with atmospheric at the top. 29.92"Hg (760 mmHg, 1013.25 mbar, 14.7 psi) is standard atmospheric pressure at sea level, so that's the maximum height you can pull up mercury with a vacuum if the other end is exposed to air pressure at standard conditions, which means the vacuum reading will vary slightly according to the weather, even if the actual measured pressure stays constant. Absolute pressure is atmospheric pressure minus vacuum. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
Jeromie Reeves wrote: inline David Miller wrote: [snip] I'm not sure what you're referring to in I should look for a 50. I'd suggest looking for a dry pump that doesn't require oil lubrication. These are commonly used for refridgeration or freeze drying of food, should go to the required vacuum levels, and should last a long time. Scientific pumps generally don't like that kind of water vapor. Would a home grade vacuum sealer (for food bag + jars) be sufficient? I have seen many older units at yard sales (wife wont let me get near her new one that does bottles/jars!) Interesting idea, but I doubt it. It might work for the 1 gallon test batches, but I'm not sure I can see it working on a 50 gallon batch. I don't know what they have for vacuum pumps in them, but I doubt they're made to run that long. It wouldn't cost that much to try one though. The key to the operation is to have the fuel hot and a cool place for it to condense. You don't have to pump all the water vapor out, just create the conditions where the water will boil out of the fuel and condense in the condensor. That means a vacuum of 25 - 27 inches. That sounds easy enough with a few pipes and some peltiers. How cold does the surface need to be for condensing water in a 25~27 inch vacuum? What about boiling temp? I know boiling temp goes down as the atmospheric pressure goes down but I do not know scale. Is there a online chart showing this? What kind of vessel would be needed for a 25~27 inch vacuum (and so I am sure, that is a negative PSI rating yes?) These numbers have been posted a bunch of times now. 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg As Joe Street said several times on this thread if you keep the fuel hot (55C) and have a room temperature condensor (5-10C) you can just run the vacuum pump until you get to 27 or so and you're done. Water can be drained out the condensor afterward. These aren't the only numbers that will work, but they give you an idea. You can do it at atmospheric pressure if you raise the temperature enough, or reduce the temp of the fuel by decreasing the pressure. You have to look up vapor pressures of water at different temperatures if you want to rigorously engineer something, but these look like good rules-of-thumb. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NIMBY needs a sock stuffed in it relative to wind/alternative energy
It's easy. You can't have the option of NOT having a powerplant in your backyard (unless you pledge to never use electricity again). But you DO get to choose what kind. a) a PV array -- ugly sparkley blue panels on your roof (in some people's minds, I guess they're the type that would think diamond wedding rings are ugly too) b) a noisy windmill (have you ever heard the 10kW bergey wind turbine flutter in high wind -- sounds exactly like a Huey helicopter taking off -- little ones are much noisier than utility scale ones, which are almost silent when standing directly under them -- just a whoosh-whoosh noise, not unlike breaking waves on the shore, ironically) c) a 10 foot tall pile of dusty coal, and your very own belching noisy little power plant. d) a little harmless looking box, full of radioactive gizmos. It would be pretty safe (probably only one in million would melt down, which means the average large metro area only has two or three melt down), but don't ever try to change the fuel rods yourself (unless you want to destroy the resale value of your property for the next 50,000 years). I'd choose the PV, then the noisy windmill, well before I chose the others. On 1/18/06, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He's sued and written and organized with passion and prowess. But his op-ed on Cape Wind, with its (risible) fear that the windmills might be heard ashore, showed that he hadn't quite understood just /how/ critical the need to get the U.S. off fossil fuels really is. http://www.grist.org/comments/soapbox/2006/01/12/mckibben/index.html No More Mr. Nice Guy Climate change is pushing this easygoing enviro over the edge By Bill McKibben 12 Jan 2006 The one and only time I ever saw my mother become aggressive in public went like this. We were out as a family for a weekend leaf-peeping drive, an impulse apparently shared by most of the rest of New England, because the traffic along New Hampshire's Kancamagus Highway was endless 90-degree gridlock. Every once in a while, however, somebody would zoom happily by in the breakdown lane. We watched them with a kind of mounting zealous anger. It would never have occurred to my parents to emulate them -- that would have been wrong. But eventually my mother, sitting in the passenger seat, could take it no longer. She rolled down the window of our Plymouth, stuck out her head, shook her finger at one of the passing lawbreakers, and yelled ... Unpleasant! I'm by nature a conflict avoider too -- if you're thinking of cutting in line at the supermarket, you couldn't ask for an easier mark than me. But twice last week I acted in ways entirely out of character. I signed a letter http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/1/6/193649/7888 criticizing Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for his /New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/opinion/16kennedy.html?ex=1292389200en=58e5dd67e381fd58ei=5090partner=rssuserlandemc=rss/ op-ed opposing the big Cape Wind project http://www.capewind.org/. And I wrote a few paragraphs http://www.adirondackexplorer.com/aenviros.htm disparaging the most powerful of my local environmental groups, the Adirondack Council http://www.adirondackcouncil.org/, for the way they'd worked on clean-air issues. Both criticisms were respectful -- I am my mother's son -- but they were also stern. I wouldn't have enjoyed being on the receiving end of either one (though a lifetime of book writing does tend to inure you to bad reviews http://www.salon.com/books/sneaks/1998/12/21sneaks.html). They were also, at some level, divisive. In both cases, you could truthfully say I was willing to inflict a little damage on an important part of the environmental movement. It doesn't mean, I hope, that I'm growing a mean streak. I think it means something else: that the environmental movement is reaching an important point of division, between those who truly /get/ global warming, and those who don't. By /get/, I don't mean understanding the chemistry of carbon dioxide, or the importance of the Kyoto Protocol, or something like that -- pretty much everyone who thinks of themselves as an environmentalist has reached that point. By get, I mean understanding that the question is of transcending urgency, that it represents the one overarching global civilizational challenge that humans have ever faced. That it's as big as the Bomb. In The Same Vein The Wind and the Willful http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/01/12/capecod/index.html RFK Jr. and other prominent enviros face off over Cape Cod wind farm Do I think Bobby Kennedy Jr. http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/07/13/griscom-kennedy/index.html is a bad environmentalist? No, I think he's a great environmentalist. I've heard him convert 400 Republicans at one fell swoop in the auditorium of my Adirondack high-school gym. Hell, by helping establish the Hudson Riverkeeper http://riverkeeper.org/, the guy added a whole new /class of words/ to our
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
logan vilas wrote: To remove water at 55C your pump has to remove 11(at sea level)times the atsmopheric volume of your container before you get to a low enough vacuum to boil off water. If your atsmophericpressure is 0.13 PSI lowerat your level.Then yourmultiplier is only 10 times, and if it's .29 PSI lower it is 9 times. At sea level 1 cubic foot of free air in your vessel will result in 11cfm that your pump has to move and if just a small amount of uncondensed water goes through your pump that can add up very quickely. This is why you put a cold trap ahead of the pump. Some water does vaporize even at 5 degrees C ( even at -44 deg C vis freeze drying) but it is small compared to the amount that boils out of the oil. Then If your pump is not 100% efficent that adds another multiplier. Logan Vilas The bottom line is that it works wonderfully and you don't need a super pump for the job but on the other hand you won't do it with a little diaphragm pump meant for a bag sealer either. A rotary vane (single stage is plenty) or piston pump should be obtainable. Look for surplus Welch pumps. The universities discard these babies regularly. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
Great Post David; You obviously know a thing or 10 about vacuum. I would just comment on this suggestion though David Miller wrote: I'm not sure what you're referring to in I should look for a 50. I'd suggest looking for a dry pump that doesn't require oil lubrication. These are commonly used for refridgeration or freeze drying of food, should go to the required vacuum levels, and should last a long time. Scientific pumps generally don't like that kind of water vapor. True. BUT dry pumps are actually maintenance intensive. Scroll pumps need to be serviced often and they are expensive and so is the service. Other types of dry pumps are prohibitively expensive and require nitrogen and cooling water and are heavy duty. The little diaphragm pumps are ok if you can find a big enough one but I doubt it. And you are right water in a oil filled rotary vane pump is a headache (if you are trying to get below 50 mT) by putting a cold trap ahead of the pump only a trace of the water gets to the pump and adsorbs into the pump oil (everything equilibrates at it's vapour pressure) I use clean virgin vegetable oil in my vac pump and when I change the oil I add the drained oil to my biodiesel feed stock :) It works great! Ciao Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Hiding Behind The Troops
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20060118/hiding_behind_the_troops.php Hiding Behind The Troops David Corn http://www.tompaine.com/search/index.cgi?search=David%20Corn%20IncludeBlogs=1SearchFields=keywordsTemplate=author January 18, 2006 http://www.tompaine.com/action/respond/ /David Corn writes/ The Loyal Opposition /twice a month for/ TomPaine.com/. Corn is also the Washington editor of/ The Nation http://www.thenation.com/ /and is the author of/ The Lies of George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception http://www.bushlies.com/ /(Crown Publishers)./ /Read his blog at/ http://www.davidcorn.com http://www.davidcorn.com/. *When the CIA tried to hit Ayman Zawahiri*, Al Qaeda's No. 2, with a missile fired from a Predator drone and ended up killing more than a dozen civilians as well as four or so people later identified as foreign terrorists in a Pakistani village near the border of Afghanistan, that was dumb. When George W. Bush did not quickly apologize, offer compensation to the victims and announce there would be an immediate investigation, that was also dumb. For with this strike, the Bush administration essentially aided the enemy, who now can point to this episode as proof that Bush does not give a damn about innocent Muslim lives (which is what many people in the Arab world already suspect). And this botched operation has severely undermined the Pakistani government of Gen. Pervez Musharraf, revealing how Bush treats his friends and allies in the war of terrorism. Moreover, actions like this can lead one to wonder if Bush really means it when he says—as he has frequently—We believe in the dignity of every human life. If that were indeed the case, then wouldn't he be all broken up over the Pakistani civilians blown to pieces by the CIA missile? Hunting mass-murdering terrorists who live among civilians is indeed hard and nasty work, which most people find morally justifiable. (We have to do what we think is necessary, John McCain declared on Sunday.) Then let's be frank. Those who are willing to target a neighborhood in a far-away village—hoping to kill a terrorist but knowing that innocent human beings may well also be smashed to bits—do not /really/ believe in the dignity of /every/ human life. They are willing to trade certain lives (of nameless people who happen to be villagers in a remote spot) for the results they seek. The cost-benefit analysis may be defensible; in all wars, non-combatants are killed. But please, let's not kid ourselves. Bush and his commanders in the war on terrorism are willing to waste non-terrorists to kill terrorists. Right or wrong, that is not caring about the dignity of every life. Now by writing this, I hope I am not violating Bush's standards for acceptable debate. After years of ignoring or deflecting criticism of his actions in Iraq and of his conduct of the so-called war on terrorism, Bush in recent months has taken a different tack. He has admitted mistakes were made—by others, not him—regarding the WMD intelligence. (This can be categorized as a Doh!-like concession.) And he has said that criticism of him is not out of bounds, as long as it's the right sort of criticism and doesn't, for instance, raise questions about his motives. Last week, speaking at a Veterans of Foreign War convention, Bush made this point once again—and the next day added an electoral twist. Before the supportive crowd, he said: We must remember there is a difference between responsible and irresponsible debate—and it's even more important to conduct this debate responsibly when American troops are risking their lives overseas. The American people know the difference between responsible and irresponsible debate when they see it. They know the difference between honest critics who question the way the war is being prosecuted and partisan critics who claim that we acted in Iraq because of oil, or because of Israel, or because we misled the American people. And they know the difference between a loyal opposition that points out what is wrong, and defeatists who refuse to see that anything is right. I recall there were plenty of Bush supporters who never missed the chance to question Bill Clinton's motives whenever he fired a shot overseas. Remember the real-life claims of /Wag the Dog/ ? GOP opportunism notwithstanding, what's wrong with questioning Bush's motives or arguing the case that he misled the public to win support for the invasion of Iraq? It's understandable that Bush himself may not enjoy such criticism. But he's not king—at least not yet, despite all the legal memos written by his Justice Department and counsel's office claiming that he can do anything he wants to and avoid (that is, break) any law while he is pursuing his commander-in-chief duties in the war on terrorism. (See the memo, The Unitary Executive
Re: [Biofuel] NIMBY needs a sock stuffed in it relative to wind/alternative energy
Take a look at the architectural topography in the vicinity of Nantucket Sound. Oddly enough you'll see a belching, coal-fired, power plant. I suppose that sight, along with all the mercury it emits, is more preferable than field of wind turbines? Betcha' it really increases the property values, eh? All I can say is that every time I see a new commercial sized turbine being installed along another ridge line I get this little surge of hope that somebody out there does indeed get it. Frankly? It wouldn't bother me to see an entire herd of turbines in my favorite wilderness places - Alaska, BC, Wyoming, it doesn't matter. Anything is better than to continue sucking on the fossil fuel teat until we destroy the planet as we once knew it. Todd Swearingen Zeke Yewdall wrote: It's easy. You can't have the option of NOT having a powerplant in your backyard (unless you pledge to never use electricity again). But you DO get to choose what kind. a) a PV array -- ugly sparkley blue panels on your roof (in some people's minds, I guess they're the type that would think diamond wedding rings are ugly too) b) a noisy windmill (have you ever heard the 10kW bergey wind turbine flutter in high wind -- sounds exactly like a Huey helicopter taking off -- little ones are much noisier than utility scale ones, which are almost silent when standing directly under them -- just a whoosh-whoosh noise, not unlike breaking waves on the shore, ironically) c) a 10 foot tall pile of dusty coal, and your very own belching noisy little power plant. d) a little harmless looking box, full of radioactive gizmos. It would be pretty safe (probably only one in million would melt down, which means the average large metro area only has two or three melt down), but don't ever try to change the fuel rods yourself (unless you want to destroy the resale value of your property for the next 50,000 years). I'd choose the PV, then the noisy windmill, well before I chose the others. On 1/18/06, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He's sued and written and organized with passion and prowess. But his op-ed on Cape Wind, with its (risible) fear that the windmills might be heard ashore, showed that he hadn't quite understood just /how/ critical the need to get the U.S. off fossil fuels really is. http://www.grist.org/comments/soapbox/2006/01/12/mckibben/index.html No More Mr. Nice Guy Climate change is pushing this easygoing enviro over the edge By Bill McKibben 12 Jan 2006 The one and only time I ever saw my mother become aggressive in public went like this. We were out as a family for a weekend leaf-peeping drive, an impulse apparently shared by most of the rest of New England, because the traffic along New Hampshire's Kancamagus Highway was endless 90-degree gridlock. Every once in a while, however, somebody would zoom happily by in the breakdown lane. We watched them with a kind of mounting zealous anger. It would never have occurred to my parents to emulate them -- that would have been wrong. But eventually my mother, sitting in the passenger seat, could take it no longer. She rolled down the window of our Plymouth, stuck out her head, shook her finger at one of the passing lawbreakers, and yelled ... Unpleasant! I'm by nature a conflict avoider too -- if you're thinking of cutting in line at the supermarket, you couldn't ask for an easier mark than me. But twice last week I acted in ways entirely out of character. I signed a letter http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/1/6/193649/7888 criticizing Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for his /New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/opinion/16kennedy.html?ex=1292389200en=58e5dd67e381fd58ei=5090partner=rssuserlandemc=rss/ op-ed opposing the big Cape Wind project http://www.capewind.org/. And I wrote a few paragraphs http://www.adirondackexplorer.com/aenviros.htm disparaging the most powerful of my local environmental groups, the Adirondack Council http://www.adirondackcouncil.org/, for the way they'd worked on clean-air issues. Both criticisms were respectful -- I am my mother's son -- but they were also stern. I wouldn't have enjoyed being on the receiving end of either one (though a lifetime of book writing does tend to inure you to bad reviews http://www.salon.com/books/sneaks/1998/12/21sneaks.html). They were also, at some level, divisive. In both cases, you could truthfully say I was willing to inflict a little damage on an important part of the environmental movement. It doesn't mean, I hope, that I'm growing a mean streak. I think it means something else: that the environmental movement is reaching an important point of division, between those who truly /get/ global warming, and those who don't. By /get/, I don't mean understanding the chemistry of carbon dioxide, or the importance of the Kyoto Protocol, or something like that -- pretty much everyone who thinks of themselves as an environmentalist has reached that point. By get, I mean understanding that the question is
[Biofuel] algae formation in biodiesel
Hi all, I came across this article about algae formation problems with biofuels. Has anybody experienced this? If so what anti-algae formulations are effective in solving the problem? regards tallex http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/17/when-biodiesel-gets-too-green/ You know how cooking oil spoils? Well, apparently so can biodiesel fuel. In a situation similar to the experience of truck fleets in Minnesota, the Roaring Fork Transportation Authority (RFTA) in Colorado discovered its buses fuel filters were blocking last winter, causing breakdowns. Investigation showed that algae, similar to the green scum found on the top of ponds, had been growing in the biodiesel fueling the vehicles. The RFTA had recently switched to the alternative fuel in its efforts to cut costs after rising fuel prices last year. Algae growth in biodiesel is actually a well-known problem with the solution, an anti-algae treatment, available. Apparently the fuel supplier, though, had not warned the RFTA. We had a long talk with them about it, said Ken Osier of the RFTA. Despite the problem, the agency plans to continue pursuing the use of biodiesel in its fleet. Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] algae formation in biodiesel
Saw that article back in November. I've never had trouble, or heard of trouble with algae in biodiesel. I wonder if it was growing in the tank on the vehical, or grew in the supplier's tank. I'm a little confused how algae could grow in darkness anyway -- unless they had the translucent poly tanks, in which case I can understand it. Also, both cases mentioned have happened in the winter in cold climates. Compounded by some gelling perhaps? On 1/18/06, AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I came across this article about algae formation problems with biofuels. Has anybody experienced this? If so what anti-algae formulations are effective in solving the problem? regards tallex http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/17/when-biodiesel-gets-too-green/ You know how cooking oil spoils? Well, apparently so can biodiesel fuel. In a situation similar to the experience of truck fleets in Minnesota, the Roaring Fork Transportation Authority (RFTA) in Colorado discovered its buses' fuel filters were blocking last winter, causing breakdowns. Investigation showed that algae, similar to the green scum found on the top of ponds, had been growing in the biodiesel fueling the vehicles. The RFTA had recently switched to the alternative fuel in its efforts to cut costs after rising fuel prices last year. Algae growth in biodiesel is actually a well-known problem with the solution, an anti-algae treatment, available. Apparently the fuel supplier, though, had not warned the RFTA. We had a long talk with them about it, said Ken Osier of the RFTA. Despite the problem, the agency plans to continue pursuing the use of biodiesel in its fleet. Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NIMBY needs a sock stuffed in it relative to wind/alternative energy
I wholeheartedly agree Todd. At least with wind turbines, should we ever discover the means to harness cold fusion or similar clean source, all the turbines could be dismantled recycled, returning the land back to what it was - relatively unscathed. Not the same story with nuclear. Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: 18 January 2006 20:30 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] NIMBY needs a sock stuffed in it relative to wind/alternative energy Take a look at the architectural topography in the vicinity of Nantucket Sound. Oddly enough you'll see a belching, coal-fired, power plant. I suppose that sight, along with all the mercury it emits, is more preferable than field of wind turbines? Betcha' it really increases the property values, eh? All I can say is that every time I see a new commercial sized turbine being installed along another ridge line I get this little surge of hope that somebody out there does indeed get it. Frankly? It wouldn't bother me to see an entire herd of turbines in my favorite wilderness places - Alaska, BC, Wyoming, it doesn't matter. Anything is better than to continue sucking on the fossil fuel teat until we destroy the planet as we once knew it. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NIMBY needs a sock stuffed in it relativeto wind/alternative energy
At least with wind turbines, should we ever discover the means to harness cold fusion or similar clean source, all the turbines could be dismantled recycled, returning the land back to what it was - relatively unscathed. Not the same story with nuclear. We have decommissioned and cleared are first nuclear sites in the UK and they are now part of a business park. It cost the government billions, I don't think a private power generating company could have afforded to do it. Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NIMBY needs a sock stuffed in itrelativeto wind/alternative energy
I rest my case Chris Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris lloyd Sent: 18 January 2006 22:37 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] NIMBY needs a sock stuffed in itrelativeto wind/alternative energy At least with wind turbines, should we ever discover the means to harness cold fusion or similar clean source, all the turbines could be dismantled recycled, returning the land back to what it was - relatively unscathed. Not the same story with nuclear. We have decommissioned and cleared are first nuclear sites in the UK and they are now part of a business park. It cost the government billions, I don't think a private power generating company could have afforded to do it. Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
I have extensive vapour pressure tables prepared by the Smithsonion Institution, if it's any use to someone. If anyone would like a scan I will e-mail it to you. It should print out ok on a standard laser or a good inkjet. Regards Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: 18 January 2006 17:41 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. Jeromie Reeves wrote: inline David Miller wrote: [snip] I'm not sure what you're referring to in I should look for a 50. I'd suggest looking for a dry pump that doesn't require oil lubrication. These are commonly used for refridgeration or freeze drying of food, should go to the required vacuum levels, and should last a long time. Scientific pumps generally don't like that kind of water vapor. Would a home grade vacuum sealer (for food bag + jars) be sufficient? I have seen many older units at yard sales (wife wont let me get near her new one that does bottles/jars!) Interesting idea, but I doubt it. It might work for the 1 gallon test batches, but I'm not sure I can see it working on a 50 gallon batch. I don't know what they have for vacuum pumps in them, but I doubt they're made to run that long. It wouldn't cost that much to try one though. The key to the operation is to have the fuel hot and a cool place for it to condense. You don't have to pump all the water vapor out, just create the conditions where the water will boil out of the fuel and condense in the condensor. That means a vacuum of 25 - 27 inches. That sounds easy enough with a few pipes and some peltiers. How cold does the surface need to be for condensing water in a 25~27 inch vacuum? What about boiling temp? I know boiling temp goes down as the atmospheric pressure goes down but I do not know scale. Is there a online chart showing this? What kind of vessel would be needed for a 25~27 inch vacuum (and so I am sure, that is a negative PSI rating yes?) These numbers have been posted a bunch of times now. 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg As Joe Street said several times on this thread if you keep the fuel hot (55C) and have a room temperature condensor (5-10C) you can just run the vacuum pump until you get to 27 or so and you're done. Water can be drained out the condensor afterward. These aren't the only numbers that will work, but they give you an idea. You can do it at atmospheric pressure if you raise the temperature enough, or reduce the temp of the fuel by decreasing the pressure. You have to look up vapor pressures of water at different temperatures if you want to rigorously engineer something, but these look like good rules-of-thumb. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Study Hits EPA Plan to Censor Community Pollution Reports
Yup I live where the governater makes all the earth crushing laws that will help us not to do what is needed. There was a suggestion made here a week or 2 back. Ask your supplier to buy the used veg oil. Get a receipt. I figure 10 cents per hundred gallons is as good as any #. This way you only transport uvo not wvo. As the new law points to. Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:11 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Study Hits EPA Plan to Censor Community Pollution Reports Yet in California WVO is so dangerous that it needs a special license and 1 million dollars worth of insurance to even touch it. I wonder why it is not illegal to transport 35 lbs of SVO? Logically, it is the same stuff. And what do I do with my used turkey fryer oil? I wonder if the big rendering companies will come get it? I don't want to break this important law. Anyone on this list live in CA?? Study Hits EPA Plan to Censor Community Pollution Reports http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137447634.news The study's finding that EPA should be tracking a wider array of these persistent, bioaccumulating substances comes as the Bush Administration is proposing to do just the opposite. A pending EPA plan, subject to public comment until Jan. 13, would sharply curtail a citizens' right to know critical information about pollutants in their communities. full article http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137447634.news Many States Oppose Bush Pollution Plan http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137446547.news Houston TX - So far, twelve states have voiced opposition to the Bush administration's plan to ease rules on reporting legal toxin releases. Attorney generals representing the twelve states, said in a letter addressed to the EPA, that the Bush administration's pollution plan compromises the public's right to know about possible health risks in their neighborhoods full article http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137446547.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
I would like to have that. Been looking and have not found one like im thinking (course my thinking could be off =) Jeromie MALCOLM MACLURE wrote: I have extensive vapour pressure tables prepared by the Smithsonion Institution, if it's any use to someone. If anyone would like a scan I will e-mail it to you. It should print out ok on a standard laser or a good inkjet. Regards Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: 18 January 2006 17:41 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. Jeromie Reeves wrote: inline David Miller wrote: [snip] I'm not sure what you're referring to in I should look for a 50. I'd suggest looking for a dry pump that doesn't require oil lubrication. These are commonly used for refridgeration or freeze drying of food, should go to the required vacuum levels, and should last a long time. Scientific pumps generally don't like that kind of water vapor. Would a home grade vacuum sealer (for food bag + jars) be sufficient? I have seen many older units at yard sales (wife wont let me get near her new one that does bottles/jars!) Interesting idea, but I doubt it. It might work for the 1 gallon test batches, but I'm not sure I can see it working on a 50 gallon batch. I don't know what they have for vacuum pumps in them, but I doubt they're made to run that long. It wouldn't cost that much to try one though. The key to the operation is to have the fuel hot and a cool place for it to condense. You don't have to pump all the water vapor out, just create the conditions where the water will boil out of the fuel and condense in the condensor. That means a vacuum of 25 - 27 inches. That sounds easy enough with a few pipes and some peltiers. How cold does the surface need to be for condensing water in a 25~27 inch vacuum? What about boiling temp? I know boiling temp goes down as the atmospheric pressure goes down but I do not know scale. Is there a online chart showing this? What kind of vessel would be needed for a 25~27 inch vacuum (and so I am sure, that is a negative PSI rating yes?) These numbers have been posted a bunch of times now. 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg As Joe Street said several times on this thread if you keep the fuel hot (55C) and have a room temperature condensor (5-10C) you can just run the vacuum pump until you get to 27 or so and you're done. Water can be drained out the condensor afterward. These aren't the only numbers that will work, but they give you an idea. You can do it at atmospheric pressure if you raise the temperature enough, or reduce the temp of the fuel by decreasing the pressure. You have to look up vapor pressures of water at different temperatures if you want to rigorously engineer something, but these look like good rules-of-thumb. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Mainstream media finally gets it, energy independence
Folks, Check out this editorial in the New York Times entitled Energy Impasse: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/opinion/15sun1.html It discusses two international energy incidents, and makes the broader conclusion that we need to be energy independent, and not by more drilling. It says that Europeans are re-evaluating their dependence on Russia for natural gas, because of the dispute with the Ukraine. And Iran is continuing with its nuclear program, knowing that since it has the second largest oil reserves and second largest supply of natural gas, no one would dare attempt sanctions against it. Here are the last two paragraphs: Clearly, becoming less dependent on foreign sources should be among the West's -- and most especially America's -- most urgent priorities. But not in the way that President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney seem to prefer, which is to try to drill our way out of dependency -- an utterly impossible task for a country that uses one-fourth of the world's oil while possessing only 3 percent of its reserves, and whose once-abundant supplies of natural gas are now severely stressed. A much better answer would be a national commitment to more efficient vehicles and to the rapid deployment of new energy sources like biofuels. America cannot win President Bush's much-vaunted war on terrorism as long as it is sending billions of dollars abroad for oil purchases every day. It cannot establish democracy in the Middle East because governments rich in oil revenue do not want democracy. And it will never have the geopolitical leverage it needs as long as it is depends on unstable foreign sources for fuel. Check it out, --Toby Sarver Member of Piedmont Biofuels Coop (http://biofuels.coop) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] U.S. firms to launch corn-based socks in Japan
U.S. firms to launch corn-based socks in Japan Biodegradable hosiery to debut on store shelves next year TOKYO - The Chicago White Sox may have won baseball's World Series, but the corn socks are coming to Japan.Biodegradable socks, made from corn-derived fiber and manufactured by U.S. hosiery makers, should make their worldwide debut on Japanese store shelves sometime next year, industry officials said on Tuesday. The officials said they developed the value-added product in an attempt to compete with low-cost textile manufacturers in China and other Asian countries.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9969023___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Patagonia Will Recycle Your Underwear
Patagonia Will Recycle Your Underwear December 1, 2005 11:39 PM - Justin Thomas, Virginia Patagonia has raised the recycling bar again this time they've announced that they will recycle your worn-out underwear. Patagonia's Capilene garments can be broken down and remade into new clothing. The Capilene is shipped to Japan for recycling, but it still much less energy intensive than creating new fiber from virgin materials. Here's a FAQ on the process. :: Patagonia via Triple Pundithttp://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/12/patagonia_will.phpsee also: http://www.patagonia.com/recycle/index.shtml___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
