Re: [Biofuel] Crower six-stroke engine
This sounds like the combustion cycle used in the Toyota Prius engine. I remember it being called something else regards Doug On Saturday 25 March 2006 4:22, robert luis rabello wrote: > Michael Redler wrote: > > News: Hot rod engineer makes six-stroke engine > > 17 Mar 06 15:14 > > Bruce Crower is one of those guys who just isn't content within the > "box". Back in the early 1980's, he was marketing a "compound > expansion" camshaft. The idea was that a high compression, long > stroke engine could run with a very short intake valve duration. > Reducing the intake charge by 1 / 3, compressing to 15:1 and allowing > the resulting gases to fully expand, Crower squeezed very impressive > fuel economy figures from a 5.7 liter small block Chevy. > > The engine had reduced torque, but improved horsepower because of the > scavanging effect its odd valve timing produced at high rpm. This was > just one example of how thinking differently can result in creative > problem solving. In the case of the compound expansion camshaft, > decreasing fuel quality killed the thing, but I've always wanted to > try that approach with hydrogen, ethanol or propane. > > And then there's direct injection, rotary valves, supplemental H2 > injection, a hybrid stirling cycle and a whole HOST of other ideas I'd > love to try . . . It's too bad I'm not independently wealthy! > > > robert luis rabello > "The Edge of Justice" > Adventure for Your Mind > http://www.newadventure.ca > > Ranger Supercharger Project Page > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Crower six-stroke engine
Jason & Katie wrote: > is there any way to contact this person? [EMAIL PROTECTED] > does he have a website? http://www.crower.com > if he can > tweak mileage out of a 350 then lets try it with a 2.5L four cylinder, i > need to call this guy. 619.661.6477 Good luck! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
> I mean, let's look at NCLB, which is...tada, MORE REGULATION, and NO MONEY to > support it. Lol, the NCLB is the bane of my existence, so was EDUCATE 2000, the precursor to it...which was really worse imo with it's CSO's and crap, which really was a Clinton administration folly...but really education mistakes are independent of political affilliation. My biggest overall problem with the NCLB is the funding cut for Head Start, which is one of the places with which I work directly. > Isn't that the anithesis of Republicanism? What, unfunded policy? I'd say neither side has shown that they won't do this, lol. > And I can't think of a party that's done more to gut education funding, and > destroy the public school system. Well, I said the only thing, really, I did, that makes me a republican is the idea of local law over federal law...states rights and all that. And, for the record, I wouldn't call public schools destroyed. In danger? Some certainly are. Am I a fan of (federal) governmental educational standards? Not so much. Wanna know where I think it went wrong? Pre-depression, schools were funded locally by land taxes. The New Deal helped introduce legislation to lower those taxes in many areas (specifically rural) so that funding shifted to the state and federal level. The feds aren't going to arbitrarily give away money without telling you how to spend it...and now we're stuck. That's casting aside the continued segregation of cities like Chicago and Boston and I'm afraid much of America. Democrats have done absolutely no more towards actually fundamentally changing/helping education than have republicans, and I disagree with straight-ticket voting as much as I disagree with people who say "I'm a democrat I could absolutely never vote for anyone republican" or vice versa. Read some Johnathan Kozol sometime, he's probably my favorite education author. Actually, I really recommend the book "Amazing Grace", I think most Americans should read it. > Vouchers? Where does *that* money come from? You really want to know? I don't agree with vouchers, but I'm ALL about charter schools, because they give communities the opportunity (theoretically, depending on how the legislation is written, Illinois did a particularly poor job with their legislation, California did a great job...) to identify what is needed locally and address it with state funding. Anyway, it works like this. Schools are allocated money based on the number of students attending there, NOT so much on an annual fiscal quantity. For example, it's generally around $5-7k per year per student per school. Private schools still, in most states, receive state and federal funding, if for nothing else than their lunch programs...but in most cases are served by buses, etc...and are thus allocated a percentage of that per-capita amount. Anyway, if X child decides to go to Y private school or Z charter school, the state/county/region simply allocates the same funds that would have gone to their original W school. In most cases, vouchered allotments do NOT pay for entire tuitions...only the per-child allotment. I argued this myself, just like I argued that private school kids around here should get to play on public school teams of their choice, and my answer was that all their parents still pay the same taxes as everyone else, and so they are guaranteed the same access to the public funds. Right or wrong, I'm not making that call--just explaining how it works. For further clarity, say a school system has an annual budget of $100m. There are 20,000 kids in the system. That means the per-student allotment for that year is $5k. So, a school with 100 kids would be allowed approximately $500,000 for the year...which must encompass teacher salaries, maintainence, everything. That's why schools have to wait 3 or 5 years for new blacktop, they have to save up for it. This isn't anything new, and it's why schools never know until the last minute if everything's going to work right. > There *are* no Republicans any more. I agree. Well...there are people who want it to be the way it *should* be, but I guess that's always debateable. > > They used to stand for: > Fiscal restaint and a balanced budget - we're borrowing 2 billion a day to > say afloat. I know, lol, and I very concerned with China over the next 10 years... > A strong military - ours is stretched so thin these days we'd be in trouble > if Bolivia attacked. This isn't exactly true, it's a strong state-led defensive force..(well, and the Star Wars program...) Adam Smith said that capitalism would periodically require large injections of investment cash to stay afloat...and the Military-Industrial complex has always been a likely place to stick it. > And less government intrusion into people's lives, we're now spying on > ordinary Americans. I agree. Card carrying member of the ACLU here, however if you think that anythings honestly different today from 1968 it's that today they're ad
Re: [Biofuel] More quotes from Bin Laden
On Jan. 22 Keith wrote: "I remember this bit well: "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States." That was "the first post-9-11 interview with Osama bin Laden"? Fisk's site says Ummat, Karachi, 28th September, 2001" and "I don't have a transcript, but it sure doesn't look much like the Ummat interview. The Telegraph says there were four previous videos after Sept 11, all denying involvement." For Keith and anyone else interested in the 9-11 pretext for war: If you want the full transcript of the Ummat interview in which he denied being responsible for 9-11, it is found at the following: http://www.911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html In the interview Osama says: "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. " He adds: " I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. We are against the [U.S. Government] system, which makes other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom." He talks about why the US needs to create an enemy: "Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance." He also talks about what the US media is doing to its people: "The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which makes us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that." This interview was never made public in the US. Sorry to 2 months late in responding, but I just found this. Marilyn ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Oil in Alberta
The Lawn Gnomes of course. They know magic. - Original Message - From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Oil in Alberta > And where do they get the energy to steam heat the sands to extract the > oil? > > On 3/24/06, Evergreen Solutions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Ran across this on the BBC, interesting... >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4649580.stm >> >> ___ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/292 - Release Date: 3/24/2006 > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Oil in Alberta
And where do they get the energy to steam heat the sands to extract the oil? On 3/24/06, Evergreen Solutions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ran across this on the BBC, interesting... > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4649580.stm > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Small oil press
Its a piece of gas main with a helix press in it (like whats in a meat grinder). the hardest part to find would be the press itself, but everything else is just off the shelf nickel and dime stuff. i really cant see spending 100euros on it when i can build it for about 25. and stick a solar heated Stirling on it, and you could use a bigger hopper and catch-pan and go have a sandwich or something. - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:12 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Small oil press > http://www.piteba.com/eng/index_eng.htm > > Sturdy oil expeller for the small scale professional > > - Manually operated > > - Continuous pressing of oil seeds > > - Up to 2 litres oil per hour > > - Processing up to 5 kg seed per hour > > - excellent for coconut cream production > > ... it says. > > Price about 100 EURO. > > Any comments? Anyone have any experience of it? Is it made of > plumbing parts? It looks like an Appropriate Technology project, > maybe out of Wageningen University or something similar. Hm, 2 litres > of oil for an hour of cranking that handle - are you putting in more > muscle-power energy than you're getting out? Sounds like a case for > Pimentel to me. > > Best > > Keith > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/292 - Release Date: 3/24/2006 > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
im behind Creekstone all the way, if they want to test, then they should be allowed to test. the USDA is being ridiculous. its good business to ensure quality and safety, and it will probably boost their reputation as well. - Original Message - From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind > While the one little company is trying to do good business by testing, > and being able to say to their consumers that they have tested, it > makes the industry as a whole (which is not concerned about producing > good products, but rather, by making more money) look bad if they do > this -- because it brings to attention that in general testing is not > done. Therefore, what may be good business for one company with a > superior product to differentiate their product, is bad business for > the other ones, so they suppress it -- and supressing through > regulatory means (encouraging the USDA to not allow testing) is > apparently as good as any other means for them. > > I don't think that this is as uncommon as you might think -- industry > trade groups quelling any innovation or new thinking by upstarts in > their industry, in order to preserve the oldest members market share > without having to work too hard. > > On 3/24/06, Jeromie Reeves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> So whats the deal here? The company WANTS to do more testing, not less. >> Its the USDA that wants less. >> Did you read the article? This seams like a good thing (company wanting >> to not "be evil"). Im sure part of >> the desire for more tests is due to the company not wanting to get sued. >> That is just good business, and >> they are right, Consumers want more testing. >> >> Jeromie >> >> Evergreen Solutions wrote: >> >> >Welcome to Americalol, where our inspectors are paid by the >> >company, not the government/USDA...same thing for miners and crop >> >inspectors... >> > >> >If any of this is news to you, then you obviously haven't read "Fast >> >Food Nation", which does a very good job chronicling the conditions >> >present in slaughterhouses. >> > >> >The trick w/ mad cow is that it can only be transmitted by cows who >> >are allowed to eat the brain/spinal matter of infected cowsand >> >cows aren't supposed to eat meatbut byproducts are cheap >> >protein... >> > >> >But anyway, the chances of you getting MCD are significantly less than >> >the chances of you getting E. Coli or intestinal wormsand it's >> >estimated that 1 in 4 americans has worms from red meat >> > >> >But I eat it anyway, lol...but hopefully soon I'll be switching to >> >small scale farmers and locally produced, grain/hay fed cattle (we >> >have to make it to slaughtering season first). And guess what...there >> >won't be any USDA inspections at ALL, and my eggs won't be >> >pasteurized... >> > >> >___ >> >Biofuel mailing list >> >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> > >> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> > >> >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> >messages): >> >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> ___ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/292 - Release Date: 3/24/2006 > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
the more they hide and the tighter they try to gasp, the more we will learn and the more will squeeze through their fingers. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Crower six-stroke engine
is there any way to contact this person? does he have a website? if he can tweak mileage out of a 350 then lets try it with a 2.5L four cylinder, i need to call this guy. - Original Message - From: "robert luis rabello" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crower six-stroke engine > Michael Redler wrote: > > >> News: Hot rod engineer makes six-stroke engine >> 17 Mar 06 15:14 > > Bruce Crower is one of those guys who just isn't content within the > "box". Back in the early 1980's, he was marketing a "compound > expansion" camshaft. The idea was that a high compression, long > stroke engine could run with a very short intake valve duration. > Reducing the intake charge by 1 / 3, compressing to 15:1 and allowing > the resulting gases to fully expand, Crower squeezed very impressive > fuel economy figures from a 5.7 liter small block Chevy. > > The engine had reduced torque, but improved horsepower because of the > scavanging effect its odd valve timing produced at high rpm. This was > just one example of how thinking differently can result in creative > problem solving. In the case of the compound expansion camshaft, > decreasing fuel quality killed the thing, but I've always wanted to > try that approach with hydrogen, ethanol or propane. > > And then there's direct injection, rotary valves, supplemental H2 > injection, a hybrid stirling cycle and a whole HOST of other ideas I'd > love to try . . . It's too bad I'm not independently wealthy! > > > robert luis rabello > "The Edge of Justice" > Adventure for Your Mind > http://www.newadventure.ca > > Ranger Supercharger Project Page > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/292 - Release Date: 3/24/2006 > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
I personally have worms from eating red meat. If you don't believe me, I'll send you some. bob allen wrote: >Howdy, > >try as I might, I can find nothing in the chapters on line. the only >occurrence of "worm" is in >regards to tapeworm transmission from chickens to cattle. My son read the >book a few months ago but >doesn't recall anything about worms. Lots of mention of various pathogenic >bacteria, mostly e.coli >variants, but I find nothing about worms. Also the word worm is not in the >index. > >further, googling red meat and worms, food borne worms, food and nematodes, >and a bunch of other >such terms doesn't produce anything that would imply the epidemiology you >suggest. > >I am not convinced of the veracity of the claim. I could be wrong, but >nothing I can find supports >the claim that 1 in 4 Americans have worms from red meat. > >Keith Addison wrote: > > >>>Let me see if I can find my copy of Fast Food Nation...it's in >>>there...along with the primary resource. >>> >>>If you haven't read the book, I highly suggest it... >>> >>>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060938455/sr=8-1/qid=1143310865/ref >>>=pd_bbs_1/104-3172202-2218342?%5Fencoding=UTF8 >>> >>>As poignant as Michael Moore, w/o the fat, absurd mockery of truth. >>> >>> >>Here's this to be going on with. >> >>Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser -- Excerpts from the book: >>The Founding Fathers, Why the Fries Taste Good >>On the Range >>Cogs in the Great Machine >>The Most Dangerous Job >>What's in the Meat?, Global Realization >>All at: >>http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/Fast_Food_Nation.html >> >>Fast-Food Nation: The True Cost Of America's Diet >>By National Magazine Award winner Eric Schlosser >>Rolling Stone magazine (USA), Issue 794, September 3rd 1998 >>(Long - 29,000 words) >>http://www.mcspotlight.org/media/press/rollingstone1.html >> >>The Cow Jumped Over the U.S.D.A. >>by Eric Schlosser [author of 'Fast Food Nation'] >>January 2, 2004 The New York Times >>http://organicconsumers.org/madcow/usda1204.cfm >> >> >>- >> >>http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/ba2000-12-14.htm >>(dead link) >>Interview - 2000.12.14 >>Unhappy meals >>Eric Schlosser, an award-winning investigative journalist, uncovers >>the "dark side of the all-American meal" >> >>December 14, 2000 >> >>A passage from Fast Food Nation, journalist Eric Schlosser's >>investigation of the fast-food industry, offers the following >>behind-the-scenes look at the all-American meal: >>The safety of the food seemed to be determined more by the >>personality of the manager on duty than by the written policies of >>the chain. Many workers would not eat anything at their restaurant >>unless they'd made it themselves. A Taco Bell employee said that food >>dropped on the floor was often picked up and served. An Arby's >>employee told me that one kitchen worker never washed his hands at >>work after doing engine repairs on his car. And several employees at >>the same McDonald's restaurant in Colorado Springs independently >>provided details about a cockroach infestation in the milk-shake >>machine and about armies of mice that urinated and defecated on >>hamburger rolls left out to thaw in the kitchen every night. >> >>Fast Food Nation: >>The Dark Side of the All-American Meal >>by Eric Schlosser >>Houghton Mifflin >>288 pages, $20 >> >>Schlosser's book is not just a compendium of kitchen horror stories. >>In clean, sober prose packed with facts, he strips away the carefully >>crafted feel-good veneer of fast food and shows how the industry's >>astounding success has been achieved, and is sustained, at an equally >>astounding cost-to the nation's health, environment, economy, and >>culture. >> >>Nineteen-forties Southern California, with its recent population >>explosion, thriving car culture, and post-war economic boom, is the >>setting for the opening scene of this far-reaching narrative. It was >>in San Bernadino, in 1948, that Richard and Maurice McDonald invented >>the Speedee Service System, pioneering the idea that assembly-line >>efficiency could be imported into a commercial kitchen, and giving >>rise to the fast-food restaurant. Schlosser chronicles the early days >>of the industry, when it was populated by self-made entrepreneurs who >>pursued the American dream with good old-fashioned ingenuity and hard >>work. Among these was Ray Kroc, who bought out the McDonald brothers >>and became the driving force behind the hamburger empire that is now >>the world's most recognizable brand name. >> >>The first part of Fast Food Nation looks inside this industry that >>"both feeds and feeds off the young." Trailblazers in developing >>marketing strategies to target children, the fast-food chains have >>even infiltrated the nation's schools through lunchroom franchises >>and special advertising packages that answer public education's need >>for funds. Schlosser then takes us "behind the counter" in
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
Ok, I know I shouldn't, but I'll bite...how can you be a pro-education Republican? I mean, let's look at NCLB, which is...tada, MORE REGULATION, and NO MONEY to support it. Isn't that the anithesis of Republicanism? And I can't think of a party that's done more to gut education funding, and destroy the public school system. Vouchers? Where does *that* money come from? There *are* no Republicans any more. They used to stand for: Fiscal restaint and a balanced budget - we're borrowing 2 billion a day to say afloat. A strong military - ours is stretched so thin these days we'd be in trouble if Bolivia attacked. And less government intrusion into people's lives, we're now spying on ordinary Americans. Heck, maybe I'll start a political party on those themes. I might do pretty well. -Mike Why not? Well, I'll tell you the one, single, solitary reason I classify myself as one of those dirty republicans...but I tell you I'm so close to the fence it's amazing. Actually, I'll tell you a secret. I do vote on a platform, and on one exclusively. I vote for education. If a legislator makes 1 vote to decrease spending or teaching freedom for teachers, I lead a political action group that immediately blacklists them. Other things are important to me too, but I believe 100% that education is the first step, and that integrating more ideas and freedoms for teachers is the only real way we'll change the attitudes of tomorrow. Evergreen Solutions wrote: >Why not? Well, I'll tell you the one, single, solitary reason I >classify myself as one of those dirty republicans...but I tell you I'm >so close to the fence it's amazing. > >That reason is that I want power locally, in the hands of small, local >government, local voters, and local business. I'm not naive enough to >believe that many of the most important policy decisions are made in >this fashion--but I cling to the hope, just like many of you cling to >the hope that the policies you hate will change simply by more people >getting mad about them. > >I believe that it's perfectly, 100% acceptable for people in one >community to be ok with things that other people think are horrible, >and to have different opinions of what laws and products are most >important for every day life. > >I think that one of the big rifts in America is, simply, what people >think are important items for daily life. I'm surrounded by moderaly >poor Americans, ones whose focus is surviving, day to day, who don't >have time to concentrate on foreign policy or environmentalism, and >until some golden grail of welfare reform sweeps across the nation, >they MUST be allowed to continue as they have...they must continue to >get services until it can be fixed...Their concern has to focus on >feeding their family, because that is their immediate necessity. Do I >believe these people will vote differently than, say, people in Vale >Colorado on environmental and tax issues? OF COURSE I DO, and I think >it's perfectly acceptable. Like I said, until the changes that we all >want actually happen, certain individuals must be allowed to maintain >the status quo. > >Now...continuing on that line of thought, in America, we have primary >elections. And before primary elections, we have races. And in those >races, its peoples obligation to learn about candidates and, if they >can, financially support them. IF you especially support someone, you >tell people about them, and you vote with your wallet just as much as >your ballot. > >Now, why do I not advocate not-voting at General Election scale? >Because then you're giving the fruitcake wingers (left and right) the >power to control the government, and that's extra scary on either >side. Even if you arrange a wide-scale voting protest, probably >ESPECIALLY if you arrange it, that's when the fringes will ally and >block vote and ruin everything...and/or you'll see the >third-party-disrupting-the-democrat-vote-phenomenon even harder. >And...if you just decide not to vote on your own to show 'em who's >boss, to me that's like saying "I'm going to dump this $2.50 a gallon >gasoline down the drain to protest gas prices." > >Almost like this guy, but not as extreme: >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/21/international/i22D12.DTL > >http://clublet.com/house?page=MarkMcGowan > >"Person to person, heart to heart. Co-operation, discipline, >restraint, responsibility." > >That's great, and when the carebear song is over, we'll focus back on >reality and understand that even if we can get hundreds of thousands >of people to randomly give up the ideas of "Getting ahead", "getting >wealthy", and "punishment", they'll still get kicked in the face >by...well, everyone. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a socialistic >gated community start, but like I said in my senior thesis, socialism >will never ever work when it has to compete w/ capitalism for raw >products and labor. > >Yes, I do understand the paradox of a "republican
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
Howdy, try as I might, I can find nothing in the chapters on line. the only occurrence of "worm" is in regards to tapeworm transmission from chickens to cattle. My son read the book a few months ago but doesn't recall anything about worms. Lots of mention of various pathogenic bacteria, mostly e.coli variants, but I find nothing about worms. Also the word worm is not in the index. further, googling red meat and worms, food borne worms, food and nematodes, and a bunch of other such terms doesn't produce anything that would imply the epidemiology you suggest. I am not convinced of the veracity of the claim. I could be wrong, but nothing I can find supports the claim that 1 in 4 Americans have worms from red meat. Keith Addison wrote: >> Let me see if I can find my copy of Fast Food Nation...it's in >> there...along with the primary resource. >> >> If you haven't read the book, I highly suggest it... >> >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060938455/sr=8-1/qid=1143310865/ref >> =pd_bbs_1/104-3172202-2218342?%5Fencoding=UTF8 >> >> As poignant as Michael Moore, w/o the fat, absurd mockery of truth. > > > Here's this to be going on with. > > Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser -- Excerpts from the book: > The Founding Fathers, Why the Fries Taste Good > On the Range > Cogs in the Great Machine > The Most Dangerous Job > What's in the Meat?, Global Realization > All at: > http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/Fast_Food_Nation.html > > Fast-Food Nation: The True Cost Of America's Diet > By National Magazine Award winner Eric Schlosser > Rolling Stone magazine (USA), Issue 794, September 3rd 1998 > (Long - 29,000 words) > http://www.mcspotlight.org/media/press/rollingstone1.html > > The Cow Jumped Over the U.S.D.A. > by Eric Schlosser [author of 'Fast Food Nation'] > January 2, 2004 The New York Times > http://organicconsumers.org/madcow/usda1204.cfm > > > - > > http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/ba2000-12-14.htm > (dead link) > Interview - 2000.12.14 > Unhappy meals > Eric Schlosser, an award-winning investigative journalist, uncovers > the "dark side of the all-American meal" > > December 14, 2000 > > A passage from Fast Food Nation, journalist Eric Schlosser's > investigation of the fast-food industry, offers the following > behind-the-scenes look at the all-American meal: > The safety of the food seemed to be determined more by the > personality of the manager on duty than by the written policies of > the chain. Many workers would not eat anything at their restaurant > unless they'd made it themselves. A Taco Bell employee said that food > dropped on the floor was often picked up and served. An Arby's > employee told me that one kitchen worker never washed his hands at > work after doing engine repairs on his car. And several employees at > the same McDonald's restaurant in Colorado Springs independently > provided details about a cockroach infestation in the milk-shake > machine and about armies of mice that urinated and defecated on > hamburger rolls left out to thaw in the kitchen every night. > > Fast Food Nation: > The Dark Side of the All-American Meal > by Eric Schlosser > Houghton Mifflin > 288 pages, $20 > > Schlosser's book is not just a compendium of kitchen horror stories. > In clean, sober prose packed with facts, he strips away the carefully > crafted feel-good veneer of fast food and shows how the industry's > astounding success has been achieved, and is sustained, at an equally > astounding cost-to the nation's health, environment, economy, and > culture. > > Nineteen-forties Southern California, with its recent population > explosion, thriving car culture, and post-war economic boom, is the > setting for the opening scene of this far-reaching narrative. It was > in San Bernadino, in 1948, that Richard and Maurice McDonald invented > the Speedee Service System, pioneering the idea that assembly-line > efficiency could be imported into a commercial kitchen, and giving > rise to the fast-food restaurant. Schlosser chronicles the early days > of the industry, when it was populated by self-made entrepreneurs who > pursued the American dream with good old-fashioned ingenuity and hard > work. Among these was Ray Kroc, who bought out the McDonald brothers > and became the driving force behind the hamburger empire that is now > the world's most recognizable brand name. > > The first part of Fast Food Nation looks inside this industry that > "both feeds and feeds off the young." Trailblazers in developing > marketing strategies to target children, the fast-food chains have > even infiltrated the nation's schools through lunchroom franchises > and special advertising packages that answer public education's need > for funds. Schlosser then takes us "behind the counter" in Colorado > Springs, a typical American suburb overtaken by sprawl, where > teenagers-perfect candidates for low-paying, low-skilled, short-term >
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
Hallo, Saturday, 25 March, 2006, 17:43:30, you wrote: ES> I apologize for not taking the time to consult the character map for ES> the S set, having spent significant time in Bayern myself I tend to ES> drop these things, as well as umlauts in lieu of "e"'s. ES> Beyond that, I did not respond in a hostile fashion, and was responded ES> to as such, so I will cease arguing. ES> You apparently did no better parsing my meaning than I apparently did yours. ES> Peace... Peace-without hesitation. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters" Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
I apologize for not taking the time to consult the character map for the S set, having spent significant time in Bayern myself I tend to drop these things, as well as umlauts in lieu of "e"'s. Beyond that, I did not respond in a hostile fashion, and was responded to as such, so I will cease arguing. You apparently did no better parsing my meaning than I apparently did yours. Peace... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
Hallo, When folks start chopping up mails to answer them it leaves a lot to be desired. Pulling things out of context, omitting things, changing meanings in the middle of the game. Sounds very like how organized religion works. Saturday, 25 March, 2006, 13:59:08, you wrote: ES> Why not? Well, I'll tell you the one, single, solitary reason I ES> classify myself as one of those dirty republicans...but I tell you I'm ES> so close to the fence it's amazing. This is somewhat confusing. To which fence in particular are you so close? ES> That reason is that I want power locally, in the hands of small, ES> local government, local voters, and local business. I'm not naive ES> enough to believe that many of the most important policy decisions ES> are made in this fashion--but I cling to the hope, just like many ES> of you cling to the hope that the policies you hate will change ES> simply by more people getting mad about them. If you remember I was responding to this: "But Kerry, and Gore before him, would only have meant business as usual anyway,different band, same old song, everybody hates it. Don't you have any rock'n'roll?" Admittedly I came in in the middle of a discussion, but Kerry and Gore are hardly "local" players. What does your reply have to do with national politics, or have I missed something and was it local politics the discussion was about? If so please pardon me for being hasty and not having the good sense to inform myself as to the context of the discussion. ES> I believe that it's perfectly, 100% acceptable for people in one ES> community to be ok with things that other people think are horrible, ES> and to have different opinions of what laws and products are most ES> important for every day life. ES> I think that one of the big rifts in America is, simply, what people ES> think are important items for daily life. I'm surrounded by moderaly ES> poor Americans, ones whose focus is surviving, day to day, who don't ES> have time to concentrate on foreign policy or environmentalism, and ES> until some golden grail of welfare reform sweeps across the nation, ES> they MUST be allowed to continue as they have...they must continue to ES> get services until it can be fixed...Their concern has to focus on ES> feeding their family, because that is their immediate necessity. Do I ES> believe these people will vote differently than, say, people in Vale ES> Colorado on environmental and tax issues? OF COURSE I DO, and I think ES> it's perfectly acceptable. Like I said, until the changes that we all ES> want actually happen, certain individuals must be allowed to maintain ES> the status quo. Does this mean we are back to national politics or? ES> Now...continuing on that line of thought, in America, we have primary ES> elections. And before primary elections, we have races. And in those ES> races, its peoples obligation to learn about candidates and, if they ES> can, financially support them. IF you especially support someone, you ES> tell people about them, and you vote with your wallet just as much as ES> your ballot. Please explain, in detail, how it is anyone's obligation to participate in any kind of races or elections in this land of liberty. Specifically, explain to me how it is MY obligation to involve myself in the workings of a corrupt and, as I see it, evil system. ES> Now, why do I not advocate not-voting at General Election scale? ES> Because then you're giving the fruitcake wingers (left and right) the ES> power to control the government, and that's extra scary on either ES> side. Even if you arrange a wide-scale voting protest, probably ES> ESPECIALLY if you arrange it, that's when the fringes will ally and ES> block vote and ruin everything...and/or you'll see the ES> third-party-disrupting-the-democrat-vote-phenomenon even harder. ES> And...if you just decide not to vote on your own to show 'em who's ES> boss, to me that's like saying "I'm going to dump this $2.50 a gallon ES> gasoline down the drain to protest gas prices." Are you answering more than just my mail here or are you just ad-libbing what you think I believe? ES> Almost like this guy, but not as extreme: ES> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/21/international/i22D12.DTL ES> http://clublet.com/house?page=MarkMcGowan GSZ> "Person to person, heart to heart. Co-operation, discipline, GSZ> restraint, responsibility." ES> That's great, and when the carebear song is over, we'll focus back on ES> reality It would be nice for you to define "reality" and then defend that definition. You will not be able to adequately defend it. ES> and understand that even if we can get hundreds of thousands ES> of people to randomly give up the ideas of "Getting ahead", "getting ES> wealthy", and "punishment", they'll still get kicked in the face ES> by...well, everyone. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a socialistic ES> gated community st
Re: [Biofuel] Ontario first to subsidize solar electric power
As usual with the Ontario Liberal government, not all is as it seems. mark manchester wrote: > > Apparently viewable at ctvstory.html > > Jesse > > Ontario first to subsidize solar electric power > > Ontario has become Canada's first province to offer cash incentives for > homeowners or businesses that install solar electric power generators. > Premier Dalton McGuinty made the announcement Tuesday, which > environmentalists lauded as the way of the future. > "We're taking a bold, new step that will allow hundreds of small, local, > renewable energy producers to get into the energy market," McGuinty said at > a press conference in Cambridge, alongside Energy Minister Donna Cansfield. > "We're setting a fixed price or a standard offer for small, renewable energy > projects." I have met Minister Cansfield (solar energy conference), and I have a lot of respect for her. Her entrée into the energy policy field started with a conservation initiative in a community group. She has had solar pool heating for many years. > Under the program, the Ontario Power Authority will buy power produced by > wind farms and other renewable methods at 11 cents per kilowatt-hour. > > The fixed price for solar energy will be 42 cents per kilowatt-hour, and all > the electricity generated will be sold to the local utility. Actually, last we have heard, the local utilities are not completely on-board with this, and may still offer up all variety of barriers and impediments to actual interconnection for small producers. > The province estimates the initiative, called the Standard Offer Program, > will add as much as 1,000 megawatts of renewable energy to Ontario's power > grid over the next 10 years. Unsubstantiated guesswork, IMHO. No serious moves on the conservation or efficiency fronts though, which could save even more electrical consumption in a similar time frame. > That amount could power about 250,000 homes. Or 750,000 electrically-efficient homes, assuming a 25% capacity factor for the blend of renewable energy to be installed (hydro, wind, PV, biomass). > But setting up a solar-powered system may prove to be expensive for a > typical homeowner as it can cost between $20,000 and $30,000. The big banks here still will not include RE systems as part of the house mortgage. Other lenders are also reluctant to provide long-term loans on such installations. Government has not addressed this issue in their plan - financing is strictly the problem of the would-be generator. > Selling back the power would generate about $1,500 a year for the homeowner > who would then buy their power from the utility at the current rate, which > is now less than six cents a kilowatt-hour. > It could take as long as 20 years to break even. However, the systems are > built to last 40 years or longer, which could mean plenty of time to profit > in the long run. At current interest rates, anything beyond a 10-year payback is a money loser. So, we're looking for small producers to indirectly subsidize the provincial electrical grid (until recently, a government monopoly with a standing debt of approximately Cdn$40,000,000,000.00 and growing). So, who is actually subsidizing whom here? The environmentally-activist small generator will subsidize the government, who is in turn subsidizing the nuclear power industry and electricity consumers in general. Small wonder over 90% of RE installations in Ontario are not grid-connected, and most installations are about going off-grid, not grid-connecting. The maximum capacity to qualify for the program is 10 MW, clearly aimed at industrial-scale wind turbines, not residential installations. > In 2004, the governing Liberals committed to generating five per cent, or > 1,350 megawatts, of electricity through renewable sources by 2007. Hmmm. That's going to be a pretty drastic reduction from the 7,000 megawatts of renewable production capacity we have now, most of which comes from hydroelectric generation (6,982 MW according to this February 2006 report - see page 3), and another 7 MW from wind. No figure provided for biomass, but it does exist within the province (mostly waste-wood burning for in-plant power production, and some biogas, primarily on farms). http://www.opg.com/ir/sidfordbmopres.pdf > "Encouraging communities to develop more renewable electricity, will help > clean up our air, create jobs and contribute to our long-term prosperity," > McGuinty said in a statement. Neglecting to mention it will be at least six months before the bureaucrats will actually release a draft contract that generators could actually use as the basis for a supply agreement. -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Bio
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
Lol...thanks Keith. Good bookmarks for the win! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
>Let me see if I can find my copy of Fast Food Nation...it's in >there...along with the primary resource. > >If you haven't read the book, I highly suggest it... > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060938455/sr=8-1/qid=1143310865/ref >=pd_bbs_1/104-3172202-2218342?%5Fencoding=UTF8 > >As poignant as Michael Moore, w/o the fat, absurd mockery of truth. Here's this to be going on with. Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser -- Excerpts from the book: The Founding Fathers, Why the Fries Taste Good On the Range Cogs in the Great Machine The Most Dangerous Job What's in the Meat?, Global Realization All at: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/Fast_Food_Nation.html Fast-Food Nation: The True Cost Of America's Diet By National Magazine Award winner Eric Schlosser Rolling Stone magazine (USA), Issue 794, September 3rd 1998 (Long - 29,000 words) http://www.mcspotlight.org/media/press/rollingstone1.html The Cow Jumped Over the U.S.D.A. by Eric Schlosser [author of 'Fast Food Nation'] January 2, 2004 The New York Times http://organicconsumers.org/madcow/usda1204.cfm - http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/ba2000-12-14.htm (dead link) Interview - 2000.12.14 Unhappy meals Eric Schlosser, an award-winning investigative journalist, uncovers the "dark side of the all-American meal" December 14, 2000 A passage from Fast Food Nation, journalist Eric Schlosser's investigation of the fast-food industry, offers the following behind-the-scenes look at the all-American meal: The safety of the food seemed to be determined more by the personality of the manager on duty than by the written policies of the chain. Many workers would not eat anything at their restaurant unless they'd made it themselves. A Taco Bell employee said that food dropped on the floor was often picked up and served. An Arby's employee told me that one kitchen worker never washed his hands at work after doing engine repairs on his car. And several employees at the same McDonald's restaurant in Colorado Springs independently provided details about a cockroach infestation in the milk-shake machine and about armies of mice that urinated and defecated on hamburger rolls left out to thaw in the kitchen every night. Fast Food Nation: The Dark Side of the All-American Meal by Eric Schlosser Houghton Mifflin 288 pages, $20 Schlosser's book is not just a compendium of kitchen horror stories. In clean, sober prose packed with facts, he strips away the carefully crafted feel-good veneer of fast food and shows how the industry's astounding success has been achieved, and is sustained, at an equally astounding cost-to the nation's health, environment, economy, and culture. Nineteen-forties Southern California, with its recent population explosion, thriving car culture, and post-war economic boom, is the setting for the opening scene of this far-reaching narrative. It was in San Bernadino, in 1948, that Richard and Maurice McDonald invented the Speedee Service System, pioneering the idea that assembly-line efficiency could be imported into a commercial kitchen, and giving rise to the fast-food restaurant. Schlosser chronicles the early days of the industry, when it was populated by self-made entrepreneurs who pursued the American dream with good old-fashioned ingenuity and hard work. Among these was Ray Kroc, who bought out the McDonald brothers and became the driving force behind the hamburger empire that is now the world's most recognizable brand name. The first part of Fast Food Nation looks inside this industry that "both feeds and feeds off the young." Trailblazers in developing marketing strategies to target children, the fast-food chains have even infiltrated the nation's schools through lunchroom franchises and special advertising packages that answer public education's need for funds. Schlosser then takes us "behind the counter" in Colorado Springs, a typical American suburb overtaken by sprawl, where teenagers-perfect candidates for low-paying, low-skilled, short-term jobs-constitute a large part of the fast-food chains' workforce. In the second half of the book Schlosser examines the ripple effects of the fast-food industry's entrenchment in American life. "The fast food chains now stand atop a huge food-industrial complex that has gained control of American agriculture," he writes. The industry's massive demand for beef has led to the industrialization of cattle-raising and meatpacking, which has crippled independent ranchers and given rise to "rural ghettos" around meatpacking plants. The conditions in the big slaughterhouses pose a grave threat to worker safety. Schlosser also discloses shocking details about the industry's impact on public health. (One memorable study concludes that there is more fecal bacteria in the average American kitchen sink than on the average American toilet seat.) With respect to both worker safety and food safety, the meatpacking industry, Schlosser conte
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
Why not? Well, I'll tell you the one, single, solitary reason I classify myself as one of those dirty republicans...but I tell you I'm so close to the fence it's amazing. That reason is that I want power locally, in the hands of small, local government, local voters, and local business. I'm not naive enough to believe that many of the most important policy decisions are made in this fashion--but I cling to the hope, just like many of you cling to the hope that the policies you hate will change simply by more people getting mad about them. I believe that it's perfectly, 100% acceptable for people in one community to be ok with things that other people think are horrible, and to have different opinions of what laws and products are most important for every day life. I think that one of the big rifts in America is, simply, what people think are important items for daily life. I'm surrounded by moderaly poor Americans, ones whose focus is surviving, day to day, who don't have time to concentrate on foreign policy or environmentalism, and until some golden grail of welfare reform sweeps across the nation, they MUST be allowed to continue as they have...they must continue to get services until it can be fixed...Their concern has to focus on feeding their family, because that is their immediate necessity. Do I believe these people will vote differently than, say, people in Vale Colorado on environmental and tax issues? OF COURSE I DO, and I think it's perfectly acceptable. Like I said, until the changes that we all want actually happen, certain individuals must be allowed to maintain the status quo. Now...continuing on that line of thought, in America, we have primary elections. And before primary elections, we have races. And in those races, its peoples obligation to learn about candidates and, if they can, financially support them. IF you especially support someone, you tell people about them, and you vote with your wallet just as much as your ballot. Now, why do I not advocate not-voting at General Election scale? Because then you're giving the fruitcake wingers (left and right) the power to control the government, and that's extra scary on either side. Even if you arrange a wide-scale voting protest, probably ESPECIALLY if you arrange it, that's when the fringes will ally and block vote and ruin everything...and/or you'll see the third-party-disrupting-the-democrat-vote-phenomenon even harder. And...if you just decide not to vote on your own to show 'em who's boss, to me that's like saying "I'm going to dump this $2.50 a gallon gasoline down the drain to protest gas prices." Almost like this guy, but not as extreme: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/21/international/i22D12.DTL http://clublet.com/house?page=MarkMcGowan "Person to person, heart to heart. Co-operation, discipline, restraint, responsibility." That's great, and when the carebear song is over, we'll focus back on reality and understand that even if we can get hundreds of thousands of people to randomly give up the ideas of "Getting ahead", "getting wealthy", and "punishment", they'll still get kicked in the face by...well, everyone. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a socialistic gated community start, but like I said in my senior thesis, socialism will never ever work when it has to compete w/ capitalism for raw products and labor. Yes, I do understand the paradox of a "republican" who appreciates socialism. Pollution and global warming and wars may not > kill us but our grandchildren and great-grandchildren? I'd like to point out that only in the last 50 years has this luxury of thought been valid...really only in the last 25. Never before in the history of the human species has man been healthy and successful enough to seriously worry about this wellbeing in any other way than financially, and I think it's more the Rockafellers and Carnegies who thought like that anyway. I understand it also has to do w/ science and free time, but I don't think you can expect the global tide of thought to change what is really "overnight", especially when more than half the world lives in conditions that certainly don't allow them that degree of freedom to alter the consumption patterns of their daily lives to better serve their children, and even if the Sri Lankan grandmother DID EVERYTHING she could to produce less pollution, any american's 9 year would cause more pollution in a year than she has in 30. Not naysaying---possibly being pessimistic, but really being realistic. Complaining gets you so far...then it becomes time to lace up your boots and go shitkickin. "No self-interest, no cherished beliefs, no financial or political bias." Save for cultures like maybe Mayans and Aztecs (who I might add are both extinct), I don't think you're going to find many people in the *world* willing to vacate their morals, ideas, religion, and well being of their family and loved ones in order achieve a more utopi
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
Let me see if I can find my copy of Fast Food Nation...it's in there...along with the primary resource. If you haven't read the book, I highly suggest it... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060938455/sr=8-1/qid=1143310865/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-3172202-2218342?%5Fencoding=UTF8 As poignant as Michael Moore, w/o the fat, absurd mockery of truth. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
Sorry. Classified. bob allen wrote: >Evergreen Solutions wrote: > > > > > >>But anyway, the chances of you getting MCD are significantly less than >>the chances of you getting E. Coli or intestinal wormsand it's >>estimated that 1 in 4 americans has worms from red meat >> >> > >so who is doing this estimating? 25% of Americans have worms from red meat? >and what kind of worms? I really would like to see a reference. thanks > > > > > >>But I eat it anyway, lol...but hopefully soon I'll be switching to >>small scale farmers and locally produced, grain/hay fed cattle (we >>have to make it to slaughtering season first). And guess what...there >>won't be any USDA inspections at ALL, and my eggs won't be >>pasteurized... >> >>___ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
I think the US Government knows what's best for us, fella. Beef. It's what's for dinner. Jeromie Reeves wrote: >So whats the deal here? The company WANTS to do more testing, not less. >Its the USDA that wants less. >Did you read the article? This seams like a good thing (company wanting >to not "be evil"). Im sure part of >the desire for more tests is due to the company not wanting to get sued. >That is just good business, and >they are right, Consumers want more testing. > >Jeromie > >Evergreen Solutions wrote: > > > >>Welcome to Americalol, where our inspectors are paid by the >>company, not the government/USDA...same thing for miners and crop >>inspectors... >> >>If any of this is news to you, then you obviously haven't read "Fast >>Food Nation", which does a very good job chronicling the conditions >>present in slaughterhouses. >> >>The trick w/ mad cow is that it can only be transmitted by cows who >>are allowed to eat the brain/spinal matter of infected cowsand >>cows aren't supposed to eat meatbut byproducts are cheap >>protein... >> >>But anyway, the chances of you getting MCD are significantly less than >>the chances of you getting E. Coli or intestinal wormsand it's >>estimated that 1 in 4 americans has worms from red meat >> >>But I eat it anyway, lol...but hopefully soon I'll be switching to >>small scale farmers and locally produced, grain/hay fed cattle (we >>have to make it to slaughtering season first). And guess what...there >>won't be any USDA inspections at ALL, and my eggs won't be >>pasteurized... >> >>___ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >___ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
Evergreen Solutions wrote: > > But anyway, the chances of you getting MCD are significantly less than > the chances of you getting E. Coli or intestinal wormsand it's > estimated that 1 in 4 americans has worms from red meat so who is doing this estimating? 25% of Americans have worms from red meat? and what kind of worms? I really would like to see a reference. thanks > But I eat it anyway, lol...but hopefully soon I'll be switching to > small scale farmers and locally produced, grain/hay fed cattle (we > have to make it to slaughtering season first). And guess what...there > won't be any USDA inspections at ALL, and my eggs won't be > pasteurized... > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
Evergreen Solutions wrote: > > But anyway, the chances of you getting MCD are significantly less than > the chances of you getting E. Coli or intestinal wormsand it's > estimated that 1 in 4 americans has worms from red meat so who is doing this estimating? 25% of americans have worms from red meat? and what kind of worms? I really would like to see a reference. thanks > But I eat it anyway, lol...but hopefully soon I'll be switching to > small scale farmers and locally produced, grain/hay fed cattle (we > have to make it to slaughtering season first). And guess what...there > won't be any USDA inspections at ALL, and my eggs won't be > pasteurized... > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
Organic grass-fed... Evergreen Solutions wrote: >Welcome to Americalol, where our inspectors are paid by the >company, not the government/USDA...same thing for miners and crop >inspectors... > >If any of this is news to you, then you obviously haven't read "Fast >Food Nation", which does a very good job chronicling the conditions >present in slaughterhouses. > >The trick w/ mad cow is that it can only be transmitted by cows who >are allowed to eat the brain/spinal matter of infected cowsand >cows aren't supposed to eat meatbut byproducts are cheap >protein... > >But anyway, the chances of you getting MCD are significantly less than >the chances of you getting E. Coli or intestinal wormsand it's >estimated that 1 in 4 americans has worms from red meat > >But I eat it anyway, lol...but hopefully soon I'll be switching to >small scale farmers and locally produced, grain/hay fed cattle (we >have to make it to slaughtering season first). And guess what...there >won't be any USDA inspections at ALL, and my eggs won't be >pasteurized... > >___ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
>Welcome to Americalol, where our inspectors are paid by the >company, not the government/USDA...same thing for miners and crop >inspectors... > >If any of this is news to you, then you obviously haven't read "Fast >Food Nation", which does a very good job chronicling the conditions >present in slaughterhouses. > >The trick w/ mad cow is that it can only be transmitted by cows who >are allowed to eat the brain/spinal matter of infected cowsand >cows aren't supposed to eat meatbut byproducts are cheap >protein... > >But anyway, the chances of you getting MCD are significantly less than >the chances of you getting E. Coli or intestinal wormsand it's >estimated that 1 in 4 americans has worms from red meat I think it's an open question how many Americans have CJD from BSE or have died of it. The food industry in the US will do anything to cover it up, with the full cooperation of the USDA et al usual suspects. The Ford Pinto of the food industry, or one of them. >But I eat it anyway, lol...but hopefully soon I'll be switching to >small scale farmers and locally produced, grain/hay fed cattle (we >have to make it to slaughtering season first). And guess what...there >won't be any USDA inspections at ALL, and my eggs won't be >pasteurized... Pasteurized eggs??? What, pray, is a pasteurized egg? Googlegoogle... Aarghh!! http://www.safeeggs.com/index.html NATIONAL PASTEURIZED EGGS "Every egg is created equally, but ours have a clear advantage over the rest. Sure they all taste the same, look the same and even cook the same, but are they all safe? Our eggs are completely safe and eliminate the risk of egg-borne illness caused by Salmonella by pasteurizing shell eggs. Our process utilizes time and temperature to render eggs completely safe while allowing them to taste and perform exactly like farm-fresh eggs." Ulp! I thought you were kidding. I don't think they'd know what a "farm-fresh egg" is if it stood up and bit them in the ass. Once yet again: >Donna Fezler of Grand Cypress Ranch did a funded, controlled study >of the nutritional value of grocery-store vs free-range eggs. She >had three groups of chicks, fed on free-choice non-medicated >commercial feed, with one group fed a supplement of cooked >free-range eggs twice a day, a second fed the same amount of >grocery-store eggs, and the third a control getting only the >free-choice feed. > >"The grocery store egg fed group ate more than any group by 28 days >and weighed the least ... the grocery eggs were actually negative >nutrition. The birds in that group had poor feed efficiency, >consuming the most feed and having the least weight gain. The >free-range egg fed birds were 22.4% heavier than the grocery egg fed >birds... There were residual effects of the grocery egg on the >chicks' development... There is an issue here: grocery store eggs >did not even provide the same nutrition as nothing at all with these >chicks." "Every egg is created equally", right. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
> > The Agriculture Department threatened criminal prosecution if Creekstone >did the tests, according to the company's lawsuit filed in U.S. District >Court in Washington. < > >That is scary, it looks like they don't want independent testing. I >wonder what they are hiding. Chris. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg32495.html [biofuel] Fwd: USDA Terrified of Mad Cow Testing 29 Feb 2004 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg32885.html [biofuel] BSE - USDA Fears "Consumer Confusion" - Will Not AcceptNon-agency Testing For Mad Cow Disease 15 Mar 2004 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg32883.html [biofuel] BSE - Consumers Should Be Suing USDA/FSIS, Not QFC Over Recent Meat Inspection Labeling 15 Mar 2004 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg51788.html [Biofuel] Oprah Not "The Only Mad Cow In America" Thanks to Texas Governor 30 Jun 2005 MUST read: http://www.prwatch.org/books/madcow.html Mad Cow USA, by Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber, Center for Media and Democracy Free PDF download: http://www.prwatch.org/pdfs/mcusa.pdf?q=books/mcusa.pdf ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
> The Agriculture Department threatened criminal prosecution if Creekstonedid the tests, according to the company's lawsuit filed in U.S. DistrictCourt in Washington. < That is scary, it looks like they don't want independent testing. I wonder what they are hiding. Chris. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
Hallo , Friday, 24 March, 2006, 22:22:53, you wrote: ES> KEITH! ES> Finally. Someone else has said it... ES> "But Kerry, and Gore before him, would only have meant business as ES> usual anyway,different band, same old song, everybody hates it. Don't ES> you have any rock'n'roll?" ES> While I certainly don't advocate *not* voting, I'm glad someone has ES> pointed out that alternative elected individuals would not have meant ES> a deviation from the status quo. And why not? A "choice" between Tweedledum and Tweedledee is no choice at all but rather illusion. The lesser of two evils is still evil. If there is going to be change voting isn't going to do it nor is violence. Person to person, heart to heart. Co-operation, discipline, restraint, responsibility. You have to have a good foundation on which to build otherwise the building will be unstable. There is no "us" and "them", only we. Us and them is a distraction which gets our attention diverted so the self interest of the few can be imposed on the many. Pollution and global warming and wars may not kill us but our grandchildren and great-grandchildren? "Well, I've got mine, too bad about you." I'd grow a tin beak and pick shit with the chickens rather than think like that (not that you do friend-general thought). Voting isn't going to cut it and neither is "revolution". It is an evolutionary process. First you recognize and see the dots then you connect them then you tell your family and neighbors and it goes from there. And when you analzye your data use an absolutely unjaundiced and unprejudiced eye otherwise you will get it wrong.No self-interest, no cherished beliefs, no financial or political bias. Vote if you must but that just helps perpetuate the swindle. If you know the game is crooked and you enter it anyway then there is no room for pissing and moaning. Either way be prepared to suffer. It is like charging hills in boot camp. Just one more hill, one more step. Just don't give up. The good thing is that when you are charging the hills there are a lot of folks running along with you. Plenty of them here to help encourage and sustain one. Happy Happy, Gustl ES> Don't get me wrong, nobody's getting my DNA w/o a fight. -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters" Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
>I think that the Repugs stealing the election to put Dubya in the WH shows >that Kerry >would have been better. Yeah, Kerry is a war machine backer, but Dubya >is attacking the enviroment, dividing the country, running up unbelievable >deficits, >ad infinitum. Kerry's backing of the Iraqi war was totally dumb. But that >was his only >major fault. Dubya makes anyone look great in comparison. He is beyond the >pale. >(Cheney is a supreme conniver and is, of course, more dangerous than Dubya. >Dubya >is limited, but plays his role as a not too sharp (and thus somewhat >unaccountable) >Texas macho redneck very well.) >Peace, D. Mindock P.S. I am no fan of Kerry, btw, but he would've been far >gentler wrt environmental >issues. I like Dennis Kucinich a whole lot. Kucinich's human at least and he might conceivably have bucked the system, but I don't think it's possible - it's the system that has to go, 60 years and more of US foreign policy has to change. Under Gore or Kerry everyone would have slumbered on happily while the same old stuff went on and on for another 20 years or more, but the world simply can't take that. Bush is just about perfect, he's so absolutely in-your-face that he's gone and woken everyone up at last. And made them angry. >... That's why last time round I was saying "Vote Bush!" (me >and Gabriel Kolko), with fear and loathing... > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg38234.html >[Biofuel] The Coming Elections and the Future of American Global Power >16 Sep 2004 > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg40366.html >Re: off topic flame: Re: [Biofuel] 38 short hours to go >4 Nov 2004 From: Re: [Biofuel] America Right or Wrong, 30 Dec 2005 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg59103.html Me and Kolko and Bin Laden, LOL! Fear and loathing indeed - maybe it'll work, but will there be anything left? Ulp... Best Keith > >.. >...- Original >Message -From: "Evergreen Solutions" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: >Friday, March 24, 2006 9:22 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To >Steal an Election"> KEITH!>> Finally. Someone else has said it...>> >"But Kerry, and Gore before him, would only have meant business as> >usual anyway,different band, same old song, everybody hates it. >Don't> you have any rock'n'roll?">>> While I certainly don't >advocate *not* voting, I'm glad someone has> pointed out that >alternative elected individuals would not have meant> a deviation >from the status quo.>> My vision for 15 years down the roadyou >have to slide the barcode> of your governmentally issued ID to >votewhich of course contains> an stage-encrypted RFID and an >algorithym based off some sort of a> checksum against the DNA >information recorded on the ID.>>! > Don't get me wrong, nobody's getting my DNA w/o a fight.>> ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Around Skagit Valley
>Howdy neighbour! > >If you ever take vacations out to Vancouver Island, let me know (the more >advance warning I have the better) and you can watch me mix chemicals in >my primitive, 'brain cooking' fashion. I'm in bee-yoo-tee-full Victoria. > >We might even have a decent processor up and running if this darned co-op >thing ever gets off the ground. Maybe after this Sunday... > >Anyways, if you haven't made a litre of biodiesel in a pop bottle, I >highly recommend that as a learning test. No fumes, small amounts of >caustic methoxide, quick and easy to see your results; satisfying! THere's >lots of instructions on the web; many call it the Dr. Pepper method. Oh come on Kenji, it's a load of crap, like anything allegedly associated with biodiesel that's called "Dr Pepper". Sheesh! The guy who pushes this stuff is a right little psychopath who stole it all from other people anyway. We can do without this sort of pollution here, if you don't mind, and even if you do. Please see (please do!): PET bottle mixers http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#petmix It's for demos, and that's about all. Even then it should be used with caution - people shove it at newcomers like you've just done because it's easy and they'll get a quick result to encourage them along the way. But it can also give them a false impression because it's too easy, it's not that simple to make quality fuel, and that's what they're supposed to be learning. We've discussed this here quite a few times and the consensus is that making it too easy for newbies is not the point and might not be doing them or anyone any favours - they tend to get VERY frustrated and even angry when they hit the wash test and get chicken soup, not surprisingly. Sure you can use PET bottles, but with the provisos above, and you're much better off with a blender, better still a mini test-batch processor where you can agitate it properly and maintain good temperature control. Start with Dr Pepper and enjoy a lifetime of trouble-free emulsions and washing problems, LOL! And some downright bad company. It's crap. Start here: "Where do I start?" http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Meanwhile as is his wont whenever he sees a chance the little Dr Pepper guy will be sneaking around offlist right now like a rat in a sewer emailing newbies and doing his best to spread his mindless 3-year hate-war against the Biofuel list, Journey to Forever, me, Aleks Kac, Todd and probably a few others by now, and crowing about it at the flake lists that allow people like him in. But, as often said and often proved, anyone with half a brain quickly figures it out for themselves, and if not, so what? No more such distractions please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner >Good luck! > >Kenji Fuse >250.598.5991 > >PS. If you do contact me, make sure to mention that you're from the >biofuels list so I'm not defensive or off-putting. > >On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, bill wrote: > > > Ok, enough watching the list. As the price of fuel has steadily > > increased I have been gathering containers, pumps, hoses and fittings. > > and am ready to pursue gathering and manufacturing process. > > My dilemma is that although I have been reading/research and so forth, > > I learn better through observation and hands on. (Guess I'm afraid of > > failure.) > > So my question: Is there is someone around Mount Vernon, WA, who would > > be willing to show me their operation and allow me to watch the process > > and ask questions? especially with raw chemicals. > > I have read/heard of some commercial operation in bellingham. Don't > > know where and I haven't found it yet. This would be ok but they don't > > operate the same as us backyard guys. (or do they??) > > > > Thanks in advance > > Bill Thomas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Small oil press
http://www.piteba.com/eng/index_eng.htm Sturdy oil expeller for the small scale professional - Manually operated - Continuous pressing of oil seeds - Up to 2 litres oil per hour - Processing up to 5 kg seed per hour - excellent for coconut cream production ... it says. Price about 100 EURO. Any comments? Anyone have any experience of it? Is it made of plumbing parts? It looks like an Appropriate Technology project, maybe out of Wageningen University or something similar. Hm, 2 litres of oil for an hour of cranking that handle - are you putting in more muscle-power energy than you're getting out? Sounds like a case for Pimentel to me. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Around Skagit Valley
Kenji James Fuse wrote: > Anyways, if you haven't made a litre of biodiesel in a pop bottle, I > highly recommend that as a learning test. No fumes, small amounts of > caustic methoxide, quick and easy to see your results; satisfying! THere's > lots of instructions on the web; many call it the Dr. Pepper method. Just to throw in my two cents--I'm brand new to biodiesel, and just started my first one liter batch. It's got about a quarter inch of glycerin on the bottom after a half hour of settling. Pretty neat. I'll wash it in the morning and see if I made biodiesel or mayonnaise. -Johnathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
