Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran

2006-05-09 Thread MK DuPree



Hi 
Keith...1) 
"Why're you so doubtful about it?"Because of howthe 
NewsMax"poll" is being conducted. And because I am profoundly aware 
of the propaganda machine, having been a victim of it in 1988 when I ran for 
State Senator. As far as the other polls to which you refer are concerned, 
thank you for pointing these 
out.
2) "These beliefs 
are closely correlated with intentions to vote for Bush.So what's 
new?"The Bush vote is not representative of the majority of 
"ordinary" American citizens. Maybe someone would like to discover how 
many Americans are eligible to vote, how many have actually registered, and how 
many vote of those that are registered.Not very 
impressive. But for good reason, as one friend of mine says, "I don't want 
to encourage them." See also:http://www.ideamouth.com/voterfraud.htm. 
Our electoral college screws up things even more.Maybe someone would 
like to enlighten us on why this exists. Of the percentage of 
registered voters who did vote in the last two presidential elections, roughly 
half of the registered voters voted for Bush and the other half voted for either 
Gore or Kerry.Of course, as pointed out in the "torture" threads, it 
really doesn't matter who gets elected, it's all still the "business 
class." Nonetheless, the Bush vote is not representative of the majority 
of "ordinary" American citizens. 
3) The Newsmax poll and what it says and who's spinning it if 
anyone isirrelevant. The fact is that the US and Israel are creeping up 
onnuking Iran, and dragging public opinion along behind, as 
usual.Check it out for yourself. I won't argue with 
you about the intentions of the propaganda machine, but I will take issue with 
you about the NewsMax "poll" or any publicly disseminated poll being 
irrelevant.I will alsoquestionwhat "public" we might be 
talking about, especially concerning the NewsMax "poll." 4) NewsMax.comNot to be trusted, but 
in this case it's irrelevant. Tear your eyesaway from what's disturbing 
you about NewsMax, and do some work onthe Internet, and in the Biofuel 
list archives, on the mounting US fear and loathing campaign against Iran. 
I have. Again, thank you. But again, the NewsMax.com "poll" 
is not irrelevant. It is highly relevant in how it distortsmajority 
opinion in this country.How come your reply doesn't even 
mention the word "Iran" in yourhaste to defend... to defend what, exactly? 
I'm defending the majority of "ordinary" American citizens, right or 
wrong. More importantly, I'mdefending our innate ability to think 
critically about everything we read...to ask who, what, when, where, why, and 
how something is written and published. It doesn't matter whether we're 
talking about Iran or any other subject. 
 
5) We've just dealt with this, 
in the torture thread. Please go and readit. You are complicit. What are 
you doing about it? You're obliged tobe aware of what your government does 
abroad with your tax money, andif you do nothing to counter it you are 
complicit. What other peopleor other governments do is beside the point. 
The only exception is ifyou live under a totalitarian dictatorship, then 
you're not complicitbecause you're just a helpless slave. 
What can I do about it, Keith? What can I do about it, 
List? What can anyone who wants to change it do about it? 
Vote? Been there, done that...doesn't work. More suggestions, 
please. Write letters to "representatives?" Been there, done 
that...doesn't work. The majorityof "representatives" represent the 
business class. Pour gas all over myself, light a match, and burnup 
myself in front of a few gawking bystanders and possibly a"news" media who 
would never report my reasons for doing so? Aint gonna 
happen.Must be a totalitarian dictatorship in which I live. So 
now what do I do? 

6) Sorry, you'll have to respond, 
those are the rules here.Why be sorry? Thank you for 
the questions and directions. I better understandhow slippery is my 
place on the planet. So I'll ask again, now what do I do? 


Mike DuPree

- Original Message - From: "Keith 
Addison" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Monday, May 08, 2006 4:20 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll 
in favor of Nukes on Iran Hello Mike 
Why're you so doubtful about it? Sure, it's always good to 
check, but it's well in line with what usually happens, as people are 
saying. For instance (from the list archives): 
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/20263 War on Iraq: The World According to a Bush 
Voter October 21, 2004 "A new survey reveals that Bush 
supporters choose to keep faith in their leader rather than face 
reality... "But here is the truly astonishing part: as many or more 
Bush supporters hold those beliefs today than they did several months 
ago. In other words, more people believe the claims today -- after 
the publication of a series of well-publicized official 
government reports that debunked both notions." That 
poll was conducted by University of Maryland's Program on 

Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran

2006-05-09 Thread MK DuPree



Mike...please see my post, "NewsMax 
'Poll' and The Propaganda Machine. Mike DuPree

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael Redler 
  
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:41 AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of 
  Nukes on Iran
  
  "...they site a poll WITH HEADLINES that says 
  Fox is the most trusted news source in the U.S.,..."Nice catch Mike. Despite NewsMax 
  catering to right wing interests, I think that the polls are believable, 
  especiallyconsidering the astounding progress made by the current regime 
  through channels like Fox.Parts of the news media have been in 
  colusion with the government for a very long time and the tactics used to 
  influence the masses was openly acknowledged back in the Wilson adminisration. 
  Hakan's observations are also an indication of that same 
  colusion.So, in my opinion, the question becomes; Is 
  NewsMax manufacturing consent or just reporting back on the progress they've 
  already made?
  
  Mike
  
  MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



Hi Fritz and 
everyone...polls...hmmm...can anyone tell 
me more about "NewsMax"? Who owns and controls this website? 
Fritz, have you asked anyone at NewsMax how this poll was 
conducted?What are the demographics of this poll?I see on 
their homepage as of today, Sunday, May 7, just after 7pm Central (USA), 
where they site a poll WITH HEADLINES that says Fox is the most trusted news 
source in the U.S., but the story says we're talking about 11% of the public 
making it this "popular." Hey, if only roughly One in Ten 
Americans are fatheads, we're not doin' too bad. I wouldn't 
be surprised if a large percentage of these 11% make up the largest 
percentage of the "voters" who answered the NewsMaxpoll, which would 
make that "77%" actually an incredibly small percentage of the U.S. 
population. Sorry you blame the "ordinary" U.S. citizen for 
however our government acts. What's the deal in your country? Is 
your government walking in lockstep with the will of the overwhelming 
majority of the "ordinary" citizens? Whatis "ordinary" 
anyway I'll leave it at that for now. Mike



- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Fritz Friesinger 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:09 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor 
  of Nukes on Iran
  
  Hakan,
  indeed dejea vu,
  once the propagandamachine works as fine as 
  it does in the US,all out war is'nt far away!
  The whole polemic about the communist threat 
  BS, it was and is always the migthy US who uses Nukes to intimidate the 
  rest of the world!
  I dispise them for it and can not help to 
  blame the ordinary US Citicen.As a German i felt long time the blame for 
  the wrong doeings of the Nazis even i was born in 48!
  eh bien and so on...
  Get better Hakan,there is no time to 
  loose
  Fritz
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Hakan Falk 
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:23 
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in 
favor of Nukes on Iran
Fritz,Have a strong feeling of dejavu and 
this time I will save the info in a special place. Pre Iraq, I saw 
similar figures and also some support on this list. Today it is 
overwhelming negative numbers in support for the Iraq war and 
approval ratings for the president. Maybe I should frame this, for 
future use.Talk about a violent population, 77% in support of 
military action and killing Iranians. In two years we will have 65% 
in denial and against the US engagement in Iran. It will be an even 
bigger mess than Iraq, with attacks all over the 
world.Hakan[snip]
  
  

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[Biofuel] NewsMax Poll and The Propaganda Machine

2006-05-09 Thread MK DuPree



Thank you Mike Redler...and 
I ask with you, "the question becomes; Is NewsMax manufacturing 
consent or just reporting back on the progress they've already made?"I'm sorry, however, you want to believe the latter as it 
relates to, if it does, the "ordinary" American citizen. Folks worldwide 
want to blame the "ordinary" American citizen, but somehow don't understand how 
the United States of Americamay possibly bethe world's largest, most 
cleverly disguisedconcentration camp in the world. One of my first 
questions to anyone seeking change in this country is how we go about it. 
One of the first respones I getis to vote! 
LOL See: http://www.ideamouth.com/voterfraud.htm 
So wevote, but we're screwed there too!!! Then, based upon some 
incredibly flawed"results" from an incredibly 
flawed"poll,"folks outside of America want to believe an 
overwhelming majority of "ordinary" Americans favor nuking Iran.All 
I can say is, welcome aboard the propaganda machine! 

Check out the NewsMax website and find out 
how their "poll" is being taken. They ask the reader to "vote" by 
answering6 questions. In order to learn the results, you have to 
supply your email address and a U.S. zip code, whichmay not be the 
reader's.Fritz, if you live in Germany, how did you 
get the results In order to have them emailed to you, you had to have 
voted in this poll. Consequently, if you did, then the "poll" is already 
screwed up, since you are not an American. How many people outside of 
America "voted" in this "poll"??? IT'S AN INTERNET "POLL" 
FOLKS! Or, Fritz, were you told this by 
someone else If so, what effort did you make to verify their 
statement??? NewsMaxalso asks the readerto vote only 
once.So did these "poll" takers weed out every duplicate 
"vote"?
I also ask you, Fritz, why did you title 
your first post on this poll"Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran" when 
there isno mention whatsoever in any of the questions about the 
U.S. throwingnukes at Iran? Whois attempting 
to manufacture consent hereI ask again, 
what are the demographics of this "poll"?
I am well aware, Mike, and list, of the supreme 
ability of the propaganda machine, butalso the human penchant to "hear 
what a man wants to hear and disregard the rest."The real 
question: What do you want to hear? Mike 
DuPree 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael Redler 
  
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:41 AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of 
  Nukes on Iran
  
  "...they site a poll WITH HEADLINES that says 
  Fox is the most trusted news source in the U.S.,..."Nice catch Mike. Despite NewsMax 
  catering to right wing interests, I think that the polls are believable, 
  especiallyconsidering the astounding progress made by the current regime 
  through channels like Fox.Parts of the news media have been in 
  colusion with the government for a very long time and the tactics used to 
  influence the masses was openly acknowledged back in the Wilson adminisration. 
  Hakan's observations are also an indication of that same 
  colusion.So, in my opinion, the question becomes; Is 
  NewsMax manufacturing consent or just reporting back on the progress they've 
  already made?
  
  Mike
  
  MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



Hi Fritz and 
everyone...polls...hmmm...can anyone tell 
me more about "NewsMax"? Who owns and controls this website? 
Fritz, have you asked anyone at NewsMax how this poll was 
conducted?What are the demographics of this poll?I see on 
their homepage as of today, Sunday, May 7, just after 7pm Central (USA), 
where they site a poll WITH HEADLINES that says Fox is the most trusted news 
source in the U.S., but the story says we're talking about 11% of the public 
making it this "popular." Hey, if only roughly One in Ten 
Americans are fatheads, we're not doin' too bad. I wouldn't 
be surprised if a large percentage of these 11% make up the largest 
percentage of the "voters" who answered the NewsMaxpoll, which would 
make that "77%" actually an incredibly small percentage of the U.S. 
population. Sorry you blame the "ordinary" U.S. citizen for 
however our government acts. What's the deal in your country? Is 
your government walking in lockstep with the will of the overwhelming 
majority of the "ordinary" citizens? Whatis "ordinary" 
anyway I'll leave it at that for now. Mike



- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Fritz Friesinger 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:09 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor 
  of Nukes on Iran
  
  Hakan,
  indeed dejea vu,
  once the propagandamachine works as fine as 
  it does in the US,all out war is'nt far away!
  The whole polemic about the communist threat 
  BS, it was and is always the migthy US who uses 

Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water

2006-05-09 Thread Aaron Wagner
I always said the day we run out of gas they would say that they JUST figured out how to run acar off of H20


On 5/8/06, David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
D. Mindock wrote: Here is a Philippine inventor who first started running cars on only water almost 30 years ago. He has 100 engines he has converted that
 will run on just tap or sea water. Needless to say all the car companies have tried to steal his technology so he is going to share it with anybody and everybody in a partnership with profits going to
 the Philippine people, but not the government. Watch this video at: http://www.mysticfamilycircus.com/Pages/Community/Projects/h2oh29MB.mov
 1 liter of water will run the car for an hour. Very efficient electrolysis is used to get the hydrogen from the water while the car's in operation.Peace, D. MindockTo be the first of many, I'm sure, but
You don't really believe this do you?I mean I had this very idea whenI was in the sixth grade, but I did grow up.Basic physics so I'm not accused of ad-hominem attacksvery efficient electrolysis from a physics point of view means that
you get most of the energy out of the cell that you put in inelectricity.100% efficient would mean that you've got a perpetualmotion machine - just keep electrolyzing the water and running an engineon it.
It would be cool if it were otherwise - the energy crisis would be overand we wouldn't even need to make biofuels.Generators could run onwater, electricity could be produced and we'd only have water vapor for
emissions.Only it can't happen.A liter of water isn't going to electrolyzeitself and produce useful energy.It's the result of an energyproducing chemical reaction and it's going to take energy to reverse it.
Sorry,--- David___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
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Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran

2006-05-09 Thread MK DuPree



Amen, Geoff! Mike DuPree

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Geo 
  Mantic 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 10:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of 
  Nukes on Iran
  RGH! Media Conglomerates make me sick 
  sometimes...(gulp)...think i'll go make a batch of 
  fuelGeoff
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water

2006-05-09 Thread Marlowe Inoferio
About this Car runs on water. I saw this a few years back on our local Philippine news. It was only a few times he was featured. But never the less not much believed him. But i would love to believe him. Some say he had investments pouring in from different countries. Some of his inventions was really publicized. I think the media was paid to stop on advertising his invention.Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PaddlesKen Provost wrote:On May 8, 2006, at 4:06 PM, D. Mindock wrote:  1 liter of water will run the car for an hour. Very efficientelectrolysis  is used to get the hydrogen from the waterwhile the car's in operation.No time to read the details just now -- I'm guessing
 theelectricity comes from a wind turbine on top of the car,which is turned by the wind from the car's motion downthe road! :-)-K___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/  ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and
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Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of bombing Iran

2006-05-09 Thread MK DuPree



Fritz, please see my post, "NewsMax 
'Poll' and The Propaganda Machine." Mike DuPree

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Fritz Friesinger 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:56 AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of 
  bombing Iran
  
  Hi Mike,
  
  What's 
  the deal in your country? Is your government walking in lockstep 
  with the will of the overwhelming majority of the "ordinary" 
  citizens? What is "ordinary" anyway I'll leave it at 
  that for now.My government would not dare to nuke anybodys 
  Country,its already enough for us if we have to due "Peaceceeping" ,and this 
  only because of the mess your very government has createt!
  As Keith had put it, you guys have a very short 
  memory and pretty selectiv too!
  Fritz
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water

2006-05-09 Thread Aaron Wagner
will they call it a Mercury outboard?

On 5/8/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ha.I've already supercharged that car.Now it goes TWICE as fast on aglass of water.robert luis rabello wrote:
D. Mindock wrote:Here is a Philippine inventor who first started running cars on onlywater almost 30 years ago. He has 100 engines he has converted thatwill run on just tap or sea water.
 Uh huh . . .Needless to say all the carcompanies have tried to steal his technology so he is going to shareit with anybody and everybody in a partnership with profits going to
the Philippine people, but not the government. A little hocus pocus electrolysis is WORTH stealing?I didelectrolysis in 8th grade!
Watch this video at:http://www.mysticfamilycircus.com/Pages/Community/Projects/h2oh29MB.mov
 Been there.Seen that grainy video.Please forgive me for yawning.1 liter of water will run the car for an hour. Very efficient electrolysis
is used to get the hydrogenfrom the water while the car's in operation.Peace, D. Mindock Even IF the electrolysis were 100% efficient, it takes 31.6 kWh of
electrical power to evolve a kilogram of hydrogen, which has roughlythe same energy as a US gallon of gasoline.He claims he does thisfrom batteries and the car's alternator.(It would be far more
efficient to use the batteries to power an electric motor directly!)Give me an hour with one of his machines and I'll figure out where thehydrogen is REALLY coming from! Having written this, with gasoline in my area consistently running
above $1.10 per liter, it's now officially CHEAPER for me toelectrolyze hydrogen from water, using grid power, and burn it in myvehicle, than to power the same vehicle on gasoline.Go figure!
robert luis rabelloThe Edge of JusticeAdventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Page
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Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst

2006-05-09 Thread Steve Racz
I hope it leads to some good results as well.

The second article from the Iowa State shed much more light on it and I'm glad 
John found it and passed it on.

I'm not trying to be negative. We need more Mr.Lins. I just wish that with his 
knowledge and training he could remain focused on research rather than having 
to split his time starting a company and campaigning for research dollars to 
continue his work. On the other hand having a reality check with new ideas to 
see if they produce economically viable results in the marketplace is 
important too.

I wish Mr.Lin well but just think of the progress if we threw some real 
dollars at this area - like for example a fraction of the military and 
defense research spending.

Steve

On Monday 08 May 2006 10:55 am, JJJN wrote:
Hello Steve,
Yea it a bummer to see our think tanks beg, but the bottom line is if
they start producing the catalyst for sale, chances are we can buy it,
not so different than going to your local chemical supply and buying KOH
eh?  I think Mr Lin is trying to use his minute in the limelight to
express what they have done and give the State a good kicking in the
butt to start supporting what they at the university do (Academics vs
Sports)  and after the Hawkeyes Basketball season why not?  I don't
agree with -see below...
Best
Jim

Steve Racz wrote:
Here is the article online (using snipurl!)

http://snipurl.com/q4st

If the catalyst is reusable, but only 20 times, what happens then? Can the
catalyst be recycled?

The details are vague but it seems that this is intentional as it seems Mr.
Lin and his colleagues and especially the University of Iowa are trying to
cash in on their research, not share it.

Sorry if I sound like a cynic, but the article sounds more like a free
informercial touting the benefits of university and industry collaboration
(read - how to raise $$$ for the University) with the work with renewable
fuels being only the buzzword to bind it together.

Not that I don't think that there shouldn't be collaboration, it's that this
is blatantly using biodiesel research as a headliner and not much else.

Not much else? Then Why is the Coop going to start Commercially testing
the Catalyst?

 I'm
actually saddened that with all the blah, blah about being addicted to oil,
that begging is still required by universities for funding of research that
seems so basic and that people like Mr.Lin are forced into the commercial
world when clearly it's not ready for commercialization.

Right the catalyst is not ready for commercialization but it is ready to
test for that purpose.  Please don't misunderstand me, I hope it becomes
available but until the next 1000 yards of research and testing is
complete I am not going to cancel any orders for KOH.

It does state :

Grants from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Department of
 Energy and the state's Iowa Values Fund have helped support the ISU
 researchers' work.

but that doesn't stop them from saying this:

If the work with West Central shows the catalysts will work on a commercial
scale, Lin may form a company to produce the catalysts.

But that, as well as continuing research on campus, will take significant
funding, he and others said.

If we could get support from the state and from these local companies,
 there is no reason why it would not stay here, Lin said. I see
 opportunity in Iowa.

Steve

On Sunday 07 May 2006 03:35 pm, JJJN wrote:
My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the
(Des Moines?) Register.

 The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa
Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can
be filtered.  The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what
we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West
Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale.

Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

This sounds very much like the  glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound.
BUT I do not know if it is or something new.

Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon.

My best
Jim.

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 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

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[Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran

2006-05-09 Thread Randall
Keith,

You said:  We've just dealt with this, in the torture thread. Please go and 
read it. You are complicit. What are you doing about it? You're obliged to
be aware of what your government does abroad with your tax money, and if you 
do nothing to counter it you are complicit. What other people
or other governments do is beside the point. The only exception is if you 
live under a totalitarian dictatorship, then you're not complicit because 
you're just a helpless slave.

By your statement, in order for someone to even have a chance to avoid the 
responsibility for any bad actions by their government (ie. pollution, 
torture or nuking a country), it seems that they will need to be a person 
who:

1)  Is capable of being aware of EVERYTHING that the government does 
domestically and internationally.  To do this, you will need to posess 
God-like omniscience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscience) since you 
will need to be aware of all actions performed by every single one of the 
MILLIONS of people that are connected with the US Federal government 
alone -- currently almost 2 million employees if you ignore the Military and 
the Postal Service.  (http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm)How many more 
work for the various State and Local governments.  How many people work for 
quasi-governmental institutions that have an effect on how the government 
operates?  You quoted at least one http://www.pipa.org/.

2)  Is able to influence ALL of those MILLIONS of people, or possess the 
knowledge to choose which of the MILLIONS of people you will need to 
influence to force all the remaining people that you cannot influence (time, 
distance, numbers of people to speak with, whatever) to do what you wish 
them to do.

3)  Possess the knowledge of the correct thing to do, and how to communicate 
this to all of the people that you will need to influence to make what you 
want to happen occur in the manner that you desire.

---  or  ---

Is it ok for someone to just complain about the actions of the government to 
avoid being labeled complicit, or do they have to actually DO something?

If they have to do something, does it have to be effective?  If so, how 
effective does their action have to be?

How closely related to the government in question can someone be, and avoid 
responsibility for that  government's actions?   Are other countries that 
benefit from the actions of your government responsible for the actions of 
your government?  If so, are the people of those other countries then also 
responsible for your governments actions??

What if you don't want to give the government money, but they take it under 
the threat of death or imprisonment?

So...let me ask you personally:  What are you doing?  How effective have 
your actions been?  What will you do in the future to become more effective? 
When do you become blameless?  Are you aware of how every single dollar is 
spent by our government?


--Randall
Charlotte, NC


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 Heisenberg may have slept here 

If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my 
xe.  --Abraham Lincoln

___

- Original Message - 
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran


 Hello Mike

 Why're you so doubtful about it? Sure, it's always good to check, but
 it's well in line with what usually happens, as people are saying.

 For instance (from the list archives):

 http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/20263
 War on Iraq: The World According to a Bush Voter
 October 21, 2004
 A new survey reveals that Bush supporters choose to keep faith in
 their leader rather than face reality...
 But here is the truly astonishing part: as many or more Bush
 supporters hold those beliefs today than they did several months ago.
 In other words, more people believe the claims today -- after the
 publication of a series of well-publicized official government
 reports that debunked both notions.

 That poll was conducted by University of Maryland's Program on
 International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) and Knowledge Networks. Here's
 the poll report itself:
 http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqRealities_Oct04/IraqRealiti
 es%20Oct04%20rpt.pdf

 Then there's this:

Results of previous PIPA/Knowledge Networks poll [May 04]:

- A 57% majority believed Iraq was either directly involved in
carrying out the 9/11 attacks or had provided substantial support
to al-Qaeda
- 82% either said that experts mostly agree Iraq was providing
substantial support to al Qaeda or experts are evenly divided on
the question
- 45% believe that evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda has been 
found
- 60% believe that just before the war Iraq either had weapons of
mass destruction or a major program for developing them
- 65% said 

[Biofuel] Equipment auction at E-bay

2006-05-09 Thread Sean Chadwell
I've been watching this auction for a few weeks--it's the leftover
equipment from a pharmaceuticals company. I've bought one item, and
found the seller to be quick, responsive, and reasonable. Here's
something someone here might be able to use for methanol reclamation (I
don't know the specs on the item, but it looks equipped for a vacuum):

http://cgi.ebay.com/DCI-Manufacturing-35-Liter-Tank-1-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ7614504605QQcategoryZ26237QQcmdZViewItem


There are also pH meters, scales, etc. Worth looking if you're putting together a biodiesel lab on the cheap.

-Sean
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[Biofuel] Left Coast Events - Victoria Islands - May 8th, 2006 (fwd)

2006-05-09 Thread Kenji James Fuse


-- Forwarded message --
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 12:16:15 -0700
From: janine bandcroft [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Recipient List Suppressed:  ;
Subject: Left Coast Events - Victoria  Islands - May 8th, 2006

1.  what you can do about operation trident fury
2.  Monday May 8, OPPOSE Trident Fury 5 pm/ Peace Coalition meeting 7:30
3.  NUU-CHAH-NULTH WALK TO STOP THE VIOLENCE in Indigenous Communities!
May 5 - 14
4.  Humanists  and  Greater Victoria Seniors lectures - May 10, 21st
5.  next South Island Health coalition meeting - May 11th
6.  Antidote play/ fundraiser - May 12th
7.  Where's Noonan? - theatre - May 12-14th
8.  What is this thing called Iyengar Yoga? - May 13th
9.  Second Annual Gurlz Conference! - May 13th
10.  CommonBorders Annual General Meeting - May 13th
11.  Organic Plant Sale - May 13th
12.  Leon Bibb  Tuned Air Concert in Victoria - May 13th
13.  Saanich Fair - May 13th
14.  INSPIRATA CONCERT - May 13th
15.  STACEY EARLE  MARK STUART COME TO COURTENAY - May 15th
16.  Communities Solidarity Coalition - mtg - May 15th
17.  Organic Islands Festival 2006
18.  Tuesday May, 16 -- Building an All Girls Secondary School in Malawi
19.  Rally for Childcare - May 16th
20.  Final two workshops in Helping the Helper series! - May  June
21.  Yaks, Camels and Hope - cooperative - May 17th
22.  Festival Volunteers needed - May 22, Victoria Day
23.  Saving Small Towns Conference - June 8  9, Cumberland BC
24.  Gather the Women-Weaving a World that Works - June 22, 23, 24th
25.  Designing Peacebuilding Interventions, Conflict Transformation, and
Reconciliation in Divided Communities - June 29, 30, July 1st

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~

1.  what you can do about operation trident fury:

1.  call CFAX - 250-381-1161

2.  call CBC's Almanac - 1-800-669-3733

3.  listen to CFUV.UVIC.CA, 101.9 fm, 104.3 cable - Monday, May 8th 5-6
pm - Gorilla Radio, and Thursday, May 11th 11-noon - Winds of Change.
Both shows will focus on military related issues.  Chances are Medhi will
tackle it, too - Friday, May 12th 9-10 am.

4.  write a letter to the editor, for example:

From: Jan Slakov [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dear friends,

Below is one letter-to-the-editor... I hope it may inspire more! (I'm
sending this to the local Gulf Islands Driftwood newspaper.)

Below my letter is a posting from Joan Russow, with a petition to send
via
e-mail to Minister of DND, Gordon O'Connor, as well as notice of a rally
in
Victoria. I hope there's a good turn-out!

all the best, Jan

Dear Editor,

Yippee! The Saanich Penninsula and surrounding land, sea and air are to
be
invaded with ships, planes and troops this week and next, and DND expects
it
to generate over $2 million in economic spin-offs for the community.

And our kids will get to admire the daring young men flying the planes
which
consume as much gas in an hour or two as the average car does in a year.
If
we're lucky, they too will have a chance to take part in some future
version
of this NATO Trident Fury exercise. (If we're not so lucky, and this
exercise is intended to soften us up to the idea of having fighter planes
bomb our way to peace, what is left of humanity may be struggling to
survive... You see, some of these planes have nuclear arms capability and
it
has become clear that the US government intends to use nuclear weapons
under
certain circumstances. I'm sure they don't want to start a nuclear WAR,
but
I don't think they planned to have their shock and awe attack on Iraq
turn
into the quagmire it has become either)

At least one of the types of Trident Fury aircraft is built by Lockheed
Martin. Canadians are learning a lot about this company, because our
government awarded it the census contract, and many people are rather
upset
by that. They say that Lockheed Martin is a war profiteer, which hires
out
private contractors which torture people and which has violated the US
Arms
Export Control Act and many other laws. In sum, it seems to be one of the
world's most corrupt and nefarious companies. But heck, after all, we've
all
invested in the arms trade and the tobacco industry and who knows what
else
through our Canada Pension Plan. So why should we pay attention to people
like Mel Hurtig who urge us to put more effort into the census than usual
via websites like vivelecanada.ca and countmeout.ca?

Spring has sprung, so let's slap on some sunscreen and enjoy ourselves
before climate change and all that other boring stuff gets out of hand.
Sincerely, Jan Slakov

5.  circulate and sign the petition:

from: Joan Russow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CAMPAIGN AND PETITION AGAINST THE EXERCISE TRIDENT FURY

On May 6th, a delegation of about 15 citizens with membership in many
community groups in Victoria went to Canadian Forces Base Esquimalt
at 10 am  to present a petition calling upon the Department of
Defence to cancel the Exercise Trident Fury scheduled to take place
in and around Victoria from May 8th to May 17.  The 

Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water

2006-05-09 Thread magic

This is too weird. Just today an associate sent me an wmv file of a Fox 
news report about HHO gas  a company called Hydrogen Technology that is 
promoting something like this (I can forward the clip off list per 
request) - but in mean time, found their homepage and another link:

http://www.hytechapps.com/applications/HHOS.htm
http://tampatrib.com/Business/MGBKD7YQIGE.html


Enjoy!

   S


D. Mindock wrote:
 Here is a Philippine inventor who first started running cars on only
 water almost 30 years ago. He has 100 engines he has converted that
 will run on just tap or sea water. Needless to say all the car
 companies have tried to steal his technology so he is going to share
 it with anybody and everybody in a partnership with profits going to
 the Philippine people, but not the government. Watch this video at:


 http://www.mysticfamilycircus.com/Pages/Community/Projects/h2oh29MB.mov

 1 liter of water will run the car for an hour. Very efficient electrolysis 
 is used to get the hydrogen
 from the water while the car's in operation.  Peace, D. Mindock 

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[Biofuel] Crude Glycerin and Hot Compost

2006-05-09 Thread Thomas Kelly



Hi All,
 Composting glycerine might 
not only be an environmentally sound way to eliminate the coproduct, but it may 
actually speed up decomposition of the materials in the pile.
 I successfully split the 
glycerine coproduct using phosphoric acid (thanks Todd, Ken, and JTF). I have 
about twenty gallons (76L) of crude glycerine. How doI deal with it in an 
environmentally responsible way?
 Two days agoI built 
a compost pile adding glycerine as I built the pile. All the while I was 
thinking what a waste of energy. It would be better to add the glycerine to a 
ferment or to make biogas. In the end I had added almost 4 gallons of the stuff 
... diluted in water... to a pile that was a bit more than 60cubic 
feet (5+ feet high X 7+ feet diameter).
 48 hours later the temp of 
the pile was 160F (71C)!!!. This wasn't the center of the pile, but rather 12 
inches in. Itook readings at 4 places. 
 Keith might take issue 
with the geometry of my compost piles. They are, essentially flattened cones 
made of layers of grass clippings weeds, then leaves,then 
manure. I diluted the glycerine w. water and sprinkled it on the dry, leaf 
layer. 
 I rarely take temp 
readings of compost piles, but I do stick my hand in after a day or two to make 
sure they are heating up. The times that I've made readings, the temps were 
typically in the 140F area.
 While saprophytic soil 
microbes do well at high temps, most soil pathogens are killed along with weed 
seeds and 
insect eggs at temps of 140F. 
 Are there any negatives to 
achieving such high temps(160F or more)?
 It might be that adding 
glycerine is not such a waste of energy as I thought. Alcohols and sugars are 
readily metabolized by microbes. They could supply the energy, which, along with 
other materials in the heap would allow the bacteria and fungi to rapidly reach 
a quorum, a critical mass, and the metabolism of the mass generate the heat that 
in turn would speed up enzyme activity  if it doesn't kill them. 

 I would like to know if 
the addition of glycerine enhances the rate of decomposition in a compost 
pile.
 I had previously added 
some glycerine to a hot pile as it was being turned. It did not seem to have any 
harmful effect,
but I didn't have anything concrete to compare it 
to (temp readings of other piles vs this one), and at the time did not suspect 
that it might actually be of benefit. 
 For what it's 
worth,
 
Tom
 

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Re: [Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran

2006-05-09 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Randall

Keith,

You said:  We've just dealt with this, in the torture thread. 
Please go and read it. You are complicit. What are you doing about 
it? You're obliged to
be aware of what your government does abroad with your tax money, 
and if you do nothing to counter it you are complicit. What other 
people
or other governments do is beside the point. The only exception is 
if you live under a totalitarian dictatorship, then you're not 
complicit because you're just a helpless slave.

By your statement, in order for someone to even have a chance to 
avoid the responsibility for any bad actions by their government 
(ie. pollution, torture or nuking a country), it seems that they 
will need to be a person who:

1)  Is capable of being aware of EVERYTHING that the government does 
domestically and internationally.  To do this, you will need to 
posess God-like omniscience 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscience) since you will need to be 
aware of all actions performed by every single one of the MILLIONS 
of people that are connected with the US Federal government alone -- 
currently almost 2 million employees if you ignore the Military and 
the Postal Service.  (http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm)How 
many more work for the various State and Local governments.  How 
many people work for quasi-governmental institutions that have an 
effect on how the government operates?  You quoted at least one 
http://www.pipa.org/.

2)  Is able to influence ALL of those MILLIONS of people, or possess 
the knowledge to choose which of the MILLIONS of people you will 
need to influence to force all the remaining people that you cannot 
influence (time, distance, numbers of people to speak with, 
whatever) to do what you wish them to do.

3)  Possess the knowledge of the correct thing to do, and how to 
communicate this to all of the people that you will need to 
influence to make what you want to happen occur in the manner that 
you desire.

---  or  ---

Is it ok for someone to just complain about the actions of the 
government to avoid being labeled complicit, or do they have to 
actually DO something?

If they have to do something, does it have to be effective?  If so, 
how effective does their action have to be?

How closely related to the government in question can someone be, 
and avoid responsibility for that  government's actions?   Are other 
countries that benefit from the actions of your government 
responsible for the actions of your government?  If so, are the 
people of those other countries then also responsible for your 
governments actions??

What if you don't want to give the government money, but they take 
it under the threat of death or imprisonment?

So...let me ask you personally:  What are you doing?  How effective 
have your actions been?  What will you do in the future to become 
more effective? When do you become blameless?  Are you aware of how 
every single dollar is spent by our government?

Whose is bigger eh? :-)

What am I doing. For what's most visible, how about Journey to 
Forever? Or running the Biofuel list and helping to keep it well fed 
over the last six years with the kind of information you specify, 
often against strong opposition by people who would much rather have 
it left comfortably buried out of sight where the forces we're 
discussing had put it, and put them too in a state of heedless and 
uncaring ignorance, consent, and indeed complicity.

That information includes about the best set of tools I've seen for 
doing all the things you specify, including investigation, spin 
detection, source checking, counter-spin and counter-propaganda, and 
the kind of activism required if you're interested in a sustainable 
future. There's been much discussion here on activism, and on What 
can I do? That's all there too, with solutions offered. And I 
provide this resource.

That's just for now, some things.

If you go back through my history you'll find an unbroken record of 
opposing the forces we're discussing, in many ways and across a broad 
range of issues, and in many countries, mainly but not only as a 
campaigning journalist. It's something I've never stopped since I 
started it long ago in white racist South Africa, where life tended 
to be short and have ugly endings for people who felt they ought to 
take a hand in deciding what they were going to be complicit in.

You can find some of the details of all this at our website, and 
elsewhere. I'm not planning on stopping.

Have my actions been effective? Yes, they have. They are being now. 
There are very many people, VERY many, who could give you their own 
versions of that story. Together it all covers everything you specify 
and much besides. Today these people work both separately and 
together, sharing resources across a wide range of issues, the whole 
range perhaps, via the Internet, the great leveller. Are their 
actions proving effective? You could ask the WTO that question for 
instance, or Monsanto, 

[Biofuel] Full text of sugar catalyst paper

2006-05-09 Thread Keith Addison
Nature 438, 178 (10 November 2005)

Green chemistry: Biodiesel made with sugar catalyst

Masakazu Toda1, Atsushi Takagaki1, Mai Okamura1, Junko N. Kondo1, 
Shigenobu Hayashi2, Kazunari Domen3 and Michikazu Hara1

The production of diesel from vegetable oil calls for an efficient 
solid catalyst to make the process fully ecologically friendly. Here 
we describe the preparation of such a catalyst from common, 
inexpensive sugars. This high-performance catalyst, which consists of 
stable sulphonated amorphous carbon, is recyclable and its activity 
markedly exceeds that of other solid acid catalysts tested for 
'biodiesel' production.

1.  Chemical Resources Laboratory, Tokyo Institute of Technology, 
Yokohama 226-8503, Japan
2.  Research Institute of Instrumentation Frontier, National 
Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology, Tsukuba, 
Ibaraki 305-8565, Japan
3.  Department of Chemical System Engineering, School of 
Engineering, University of Tokyo, Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo 113-8656, Japan

See the full report:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/sugarcatalyst.pdf
304kb Acrobat file.

Best

Keith

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[Biofuel] Fw: Killing off the middle class of the USA

2006-05-09 Thread D. Mindock
Sounds like more disinformation from the Bush Repugs. Peace, D. Mindock


The Main$treamMedia has been filled with laments that our kids in
college are refusing to major in computers and engineering supposedly
leaving us with a desperate shortage of high tech workers in the
future.  Do they really want you to tell your child to major in
engineering?  As you try to find a way to keep your child in college
after you got laid off your own high tech job?

No.  They just want to soften you up so they can pass the SKIL bill
which will create an unlimited number of guest workers to take the few
remaining high tech jobs, finally getting rid of all the Americans who
used to do them.  And high paying high tech jobs now become more of
those jobs Americans just won't do.

You won't hear about it here in America, but they are very open about it
in India.  (I might mention that some of the strongest opponents of the
drive to eliminate guest worker limits have been former guest workers
who got their green cards only to find themeselves immediately laid off
and replaced by another guestworker)

http://www.blonnet.com/2006/05/08/stories/2006050802750200.htm
Financial Daily from THE HINDU group of publications

New Delhi , May 7
In a move that is bound to bring cheer to Indian IT companies, a new
Bill to reform H-1B visa and Employment Based (EB visa) green card
processes, has been introduced in the US Senate.

The SKIL (Securing Knowledge Innovation and Leadership) Bill which was
introduced recently by Senator Mr John Cornyn proposes exemptions for US
educated foreign workers with advanced degrees in math, science,
technology and engineering fields from the H-1B and EB quotas so that
their talent could be retained in the US.

Other provisions include creation of a flexible, market-based H-1B cap;
extension of foreign students' post-curricular optional practical
training from 12 months to 24 months to allow them to go more easily
from student to green card; and exemptions for EB/green card immigrant
spouses and children from the annual cap.

The new Bills are being welcomed by the US trade associations and IT
industry. Commenting on the introduction of the Bill, Compete America -
a coalition of over 200 corporations, universities, research
institutions and trade associations said the proposed legislation was an
indicator that both US Senate and the Bush Administration were prepared
to fix the visa system for highly educated foreign nationals.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1518536.cms

NEW DELHI: A new bill specifically focused on increasing H-1B visas,
employment-based green cards, and a new visa category for science and
technology students, F-4, has been introduced in the US Senate by
senator John Cornyn. The legislation is co-sponsored by Senators Allard,
Allen, Bennett, Enzi, and Lott.

These provisions are part of the larger immigration reform bill,
currently on the floor of the Senate, as well. Experts say the bill has
been introduced as a safety measure, so that the provisions benefiting
skilled legal immigrants doesn't get hijacked by the debate on illegal
immigrants.

The 'Securing Knowledge, Innovation and Leadership (SKIL)' Bill, S 2691,
also known as SKIL Bill, has provisions similar to those of other
legislations introduced earlier this year.
  ===

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[Biofuel] Interesting article on Slashdot

2006-05-09 Thread Mike Weaver
http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/06/05/09/0355211.shtml

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[Biofuel] EPA to citizens: Frack you

2006-05-09 Thread D. Mindock
This is what happens when a governmental agency becomes corrupt. The people 
are put in harm's way and
told to live with it. Let's see; which gov. agency is still clean? I can't 
think of a single one. Maybe the Government Accounting Office (GAO)? We need 
to figure out a way, soon, to keep the corporate dollars/favors away from 
our spineless, can't say no, politicians. Peace, D. Mindock

=

From: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/05/05/fracking/index.html

EPA to citizens: Frack you

In the Rockies, a gas-extraction process called fracking may be releasing 
a carcinogenic stew of chemicals. Dozens of people say it has made them 
seriously ill, but the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) refuses to 
investigate -- a failure one of its own engineers calls irrational and 
corrupt.
By Rebecca Clarren



Photos by AP/David Zalubowski
A natural-gas derrick towers over a home in the Dry Hollow area outside 
Silt, Colo.
May 5, 2006 | SILT, Colo. -- The 20 miles of interstate highway between 
rural Silt and Parachute, Colo., slice a crusty landscape where sagebrush 
clings to ochre mesas. Nearby, the snakelike silver Colorado River carves a 
valley floor where poplar trees, naked in the winter cold, cast spindly blue 
shadows across the snow. There are few exits through this section of 
Garfield County, where the local population of deer and elk rival the number 
of ranchers, retirees and others who live here.
Susan Haire, a former elementary teacher who ranches on a small scale, has 
lived atop one of the surrounding mesas for nearly a decade. But she says 
the landscape has been turned against her. When she drives down this stretch 
of highway, her nose bleeds, her eyes burn, and her head pounds. She's taken 
to wearing a respirator, even in the car.
I feel like an alien, like I don't fit into my own environment. It's 
frightening, says Haire, 55, tears filling her pale slate eyes as she looks 
through her living room window out on her back fields. It's horrifying 
what's happening here. The changes that have happened in the past 18 months 
are so dramatic. It's just a nightmare.
Haire's doctor blames her health problems on the scenery's relatively recent 
addition: 600 natural gas wells, drilled by oil companies over the past two 
years. Every few feet, 150-foot-tall drill rigs, graced with American flags, 
rise upward into the sky. Compressor stations, banks of rectangular huts 
with five-foot-diameter fans, sit back from the road and pump the gas into 
underground pipelines.

Haire is not alone. Several dozen people in the area blame a rash of health 
problems on the wells, says Colorado lawyer Lance Astrella. For 15 years, 
Astrella was a successful attorney for the energy industry. For the past 15 
years, he has been defending citizens like those in Garfield County, who 
blame the wells near their homes for their cancerous tumors, rectal bleeding 
and chronic headaches. Between January and March of this year, eight people 
called the Garfield County oil and gas department, complaining about black 
smoke and strong chemical odors they worry are making them sick.
Scientists and environmentalists say the health hazards of the natural gas 
wells stem not only from air pollution but fracking fluid, a mixture of 
carcinogenic chemicals, used in many of them. Laura Amos, 43, an outfitter 
who lives 20 miles from Haire, recently developed a tumor in her adrenal 
gland, which she blames on her exposure to the chemicals. Fracking or 
hydraulic fracturing is a half century-old process in which a gas company 
injects water, sand and the chemicals into the wells. Developed by 
Halliburton, the corporation formerly headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, 
fracking loosens the rock and maximizes the flow of gas to the surface.
At least 2 trillion cubic feet of natural gas lie in the tight sand and coal 
bed formations below Garfield County, according to gas companies and 
industry geologists. Over the next eight years, energy companies expect to 
build more than 10,000 additional wells in the county.
The small Colorado community is a microcosm of the natural-gas boom 
exploding across the Rocky Mountains. Today, federal and state agencies in 
Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico are issuing more permits to drill for gas 
than ever before -- the increase in some places is 90 percent. The Bush 
administration has said that such development is critical to reducing 
foreign imports and ensuring national security. And in the aftermath of 
Hurricane Katrina, Congress has pushed to increase energy sources beyond the 
reach of the coastline. Colorado holds an estimated 7.6 percent of America's 
natural gas reserves, making it one the most growing active regions, says 
Fred Lawrence of the Independent Petroleum Association of America.
In ramping up energy production, the federal government has weakened 
environmental regulations and reduced enforcement of public-health laws.