Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Keith Addison]

:-)

Spin sure works well huh? See how easy it is to distract and redirect 
attention from what matters to what doesn't. And how nobody thinks to 
apply the same thinking to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research, 
for instance, or to see how well the epithets they throw at Gore 
might apply to them, to those whose pockets they're in, and indeed 
generally to the so-called "free" market that they espouse. Where 
exactly is the Tennessee Center for Policy Research coming from? From 
the American Enterprise Institute, for one.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Enterprise_Institute
American Enterprise Institute - SourceWatch

There's a lot about where the AEI is coming from in the list 
archives. See how deep you can dig before you hit ExxonMobil and all 
the rest of the usual suspects.

What sort of lamps do they have burning in their yard, do you think?
 
Thought we'd've learnt a little more here by now.

What does this mean, Kirk, it's not very clear: "The message is - It 
isnt really that important. If it were I would do it."

What exactly would you do if what were?

Best

Keith


>Weakness?
>gas lamps in the yard are not an indulgance in driving a bit too 
>fast or fogetting to turn off the light in the kitchen.
>If you dont see anything wrong with that then I suppose you would 
>accept Bush as a spokesman for civil liberty
>and honesty in politics.
>
>Kirk
>
>Terry Dyck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Hi Kirk,
>
>When a do gooder becomes as famous as Al Gore there are always going to be
>people who will point out weeknesses that he may have. On the other hand I
>am looking at the good that Al Gore has done at educating the public about
>Global Warming. The "Live Earth" concert that Al Gore is doing on July 7,
>2007 on 7 continents will be one of the best things to educate people and
>make them aware of GHG s. Billions of people will watch this 24 hour
>concert all over this planet.
>When it comes to walking the walk, some people have done this and the media
>hasn't really picked up on it. In Canada the national leader of the N.D.P
>federal political party, Jack Layton, bikes to work and has solar power and
>heating in his home and does other green things but this is not known by
>very many people. On the other hand the Prime Minister of Canada gets lots
>of publicity about green issues and doesn't do much in the way of actions.
>
>Terry Dyck
>
>
> >From: Kirk McLoren
> >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >To: biofuel
> >Subject: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
> >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >
> >
> > st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
> > Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth': While telling the rest of us to cut
> >back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…
> > http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659
> >
> > Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year in
> >utility bills. How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?
> >
> > (2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in
> >his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in
> >the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired
> >and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to
> >make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental
> >hypocrisy.
> >
> > Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee
> >Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills
> >for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly
> >221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of
> >10,656 kilowatt-hours.
> >
> > "If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I
> >wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But
> >he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."
> >
> > Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing
> >here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely
> >lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most
> >effective opponent."
> >
> > Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the
> >Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed
> >out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that
> >"the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And
> >what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that
> >footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it."
> >
> > A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions
> >each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her
> >transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the
> >manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can
> >calculate your own carbon footprint on th

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Keith Addison]

Hi Fred

>actually to me both are important.  I think one of the worst things 
>one can be called is a hypocrite.

Sticks and stones, and plenty of folks with their own agendas to 
throw stones if there's aught to be gained from it. Both sides of 
such accusations need checking for hipocrisy.

>if Al Gore's squanders energy perhaps they ought to find someone 
>esle to be the spokesperson for the Earth.

"They" ought to? Who's "they"?

Did you ever notice Darryl's sig?

"It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?"

Like everybody else, YOU are the spokesperson for the Earth, not some 
other guy appointed by "them".

Best

Keith



>From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject:  Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
>Date:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:45:14 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>The message is - It isnt really that important. If it were I would do it.
>
>So how true is it - at least to him.
>
>If it doent motivate him maybe he knows something we dont.
>
>So of all people to squander energy it shouldnt be him.
>
>
>
>You might want to look into Cripple Creek Coal which he is on the 
>board of directors.
>
>
>
>Kirk
>
>Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Kirk and all,
>
>When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, 
>so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but 
>there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. 
>It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man.
>
>Tom Irwin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To:  biofuel 
>Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
>Date:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Keith Addison]

Hello Randall

>Terry,
>
>Why can't Al do video conferences instead of traveling, or is he simply too
>"important" not to make personal appearances?   Bet there are more than a
>few people that traveled more than 20 minutes just to see/hear him speak.
>What did that extra travelling by the audience, staff, promoters,
>concessions people, security, law enforcement, etc contribute to overall
>pollution instead of people being able to simply watching Al on TV or their
>computer.

How do you equate GHGs to "overall pollution"?

To keep it to GHGs, did you calculate the carbon emissions of the 
more than a few people you're betting travelled more than 20 minutes 
against the potential reduction in carbon emissions if they bought 
the message they went to hear, especially if they spread it?

If you were planning such a media and publicity campaign would you 
choose video conferences or personal appearances? This is for an 
Oscar-winner, right? In America.

>I bet he gets MUCH more money for making a personal appearance
>than just a conference call or distributing a video.

So he just does it for the money? Oh, well that's okay then, we can 
all buy another SUV.

>He had the right idea
>with his movie...
>
>But, I suppose the important and "inconvenient truth" in this matter is that
>Al is a politician--period.  Actions speak MUCH MUCH louder than words...and
>that is why it is "ok" to attack (or at least seriously question) the
>messenger's motives when the messenger is delivering an "ethical"
>message---

His attackers also assume something of a moral high ground in 
delivering their message, why don't you also suggest examining their 
motives?

>Otherwise you will need to bring back a bunch of "fallen"
>televangelists.  :-)  IMO he is simply another person that wants (or needs)
>to be heard and doesn't really HONESTLY care what happens as a result.

Why do you conclude that? Make up your mind, is it the money or the 
personal attention he needs? Or both?

>I
>rank him up there with Jerry Falwell and any number of failed politicos.

You mean Gore could just as well have left the stage arm in arm with 
Jerry Falwell as with Leonardo DiCaprio?

Doesn't Jerry Falwell have slightly different views on global 
warming? According to AP Falwell just said global warming is "Satan's 
attempt to redirect the church's primary focus" from evangelism to 
environmentalism. Maybe he's just being subtle, he's just saying it's 
Satan's work rather than ExxonMobil's work because ultrarightwing 
Christian fundamentalists will relate better.

I think your US party political views are leaking. Much more 
important than the global warming crisis is which wing of the US 
Business Party people should vote for, I guess.

Well done AEI! LOL!

Best

Keith


>---Randall
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Terry Dyck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 3:00 PM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
>
>
> > Hi Fre,
> >
> > I attended Dr. David Suzuki's event in Kelowna 2 days ago and he mentioned
> > that he travels with his family to the Okanagan every summer to pick
> > cherries and I know that Dr. Suzuki was the first person in Canada to buy
> > a
> > Prius Hybrid car.  So he probally uses the hybrid to travel to the
> > Okanagan
> > valley.  As far as the environmental tour called, "If your were Prime
> > Minister what would you do?" I am sure that he has to cover a lot of
> > terrritory in a short period of time.
> >
> > The main issue is that both Al Gore and Dr. Suzuki are influencing alot of
> > people which is the most important thing now.  Time is important because
> > 2007 could be the pivitol year to save this planet.
> >
> > Terry Dyck
> >
> >
> >>From: "Fred Oliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
> >>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:40:30 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Al Gore flew from Montreal to Toronto last week. I would have thought a
> >>true advocate for climate change could have found someone with 1)maybe a
> >>Smart car to drive him, 2)powered with biodiesel or some other renewable
> >>fuel. David Suzuki is on a 50-city cross Canada tour and I understand he
> >>is also flying everywhere. When does the medium (i.e. the messenger)
> >>become more important than the message?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>From: Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>To: biofuel 
> >>Subject: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
> >>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth': While telling the rest of us to cut back,
> >>he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else.
> >>http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659
> >>
> >>Heated pools.electronic gates.gas lanterns in yar

Re: [Biofuel] Truth or Propaganda?

[Keith Addison]

Hi Chip

>Keith Addison wrote:
> > Hello Robert
> >
> >> Keith Addison wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Robert
> >>>
>
>Really excellent stuff snipped,

Thankyou, for my part, glad you think so.

>I just wanted to make an apparently obvious
>observation that I've come to over my short
>half-a-century;
>
>"There is no us and them,
>There is only us, and we're all we have,
>quod erat demonstrandum"
>
>

Yea verily. Too obvious, maybe, every culture knows that, but if they 
really knew it what a different place our world would be. WILL be, 
IMHO, we're en route, I do believe, appearances to the contrary.

Regards

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Keith Addison]

Hello Terry

>Hi Kirk,
>
>If all of us did what we should be doing our houses would be one 
>room heated with Geo Thermal, hot water and electricity by solar and 
>we would walk or bike almost everywere

This:

>and we would be totally Vegan.

... is nonsense, as we've established quite thoroughly many times. 
Please go to the archives and check it out.

There is no way of raising crops sustainably without using livestock 
in the production system. No vegetarian farming system has ever 
survived the test of time.

Please don't argue about it until you've checked it out, no need to 
go over the same old ground yet another time.

>The Union of Concerned Scientists reports that because of the amount 
>of Methane gas caused from feed lots, etc. that the total of all 
>livestock on this planet is equivalent to taking 33 million cars of 
>the road.

"Feed lots, etc"? What does the "etc" mean?

I'm sure the amount of GHGs emitted by trees etc is even worse, 
should we cut them all down too?

"Do trees share blame for global warming?"
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0119/p13s01-sten.html
"Globally, living plants may contribute from 10 to 30 percent of 
global methane emissions."

I haven't seen the UCS report you mention, would you give us a 
reference or a link please?

Anyway you're talking about feedlots, CAFOs, Confined Animal Feeding 
Operations, industrialised factory farms. No CAFOs no meat? That's 
the same mistake enviros make when they attack fuel ethanol because 
they don't like Archer Daniel Midlands and Cargill. There are other 
ways of doing things, as we ought to know by now.

There've been a number of high-profile critiques of industrial meat 
production and global warming, this is the main one:

http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm
Livestock's long shadow - Environmental issues and options
Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations

Feedlot cattle, pigs and poultry eat industrialised grain, produced 
with high dependence on fossil-fuel inputs and at high environmental 
cost, and the same applies to the CAFO livestock production system 
itself. Check out how carbon-neutral industrialised grain turns out 
to be. Pastured livestock eat forage.

With CAFOs most of the methane emissions result from the manure 
storage, especially in with pigs. With pastured livestock, especially 
with rotational pasture, the manure provides the soil fertility to 
produce multiple following crops, displaces the need for fossil-fuel 
based chemical fertilisers, and does so at a healthy profit. Such 
pasture soils sequester very large amounts of carbon.

I think the meat industry would account for a lot more than a paltry 
33 million cars' worth of GHGs. Well so what, it doesn't have any 
future anyway, any more than the rest of the industrial agriculture 
disaster does. It's fossil-fuel dependent every step of the way, and 
measured in food miles that comes to a hell of a long way. It'll bust 
all their bottom-lines when carbon accounting starts hitting the 
global trade it depends on, the insane distribution system, the 
processing. Apart from all of which CAFOs have become a major 
bio-hazard.

No need for it anyway. The future is small, sustainable, family-run 
mixed farms with integrated crop and livestock production, low input, 
high output, local markets.

Best

Keith


>Terry Dyck
>
>>From: Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
>>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:45:14 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>The message is - It isnt really that important. If it were I would do it.
>> So how true is it - at least to him.
>> If it doent motivate him maybe he knows something we dont.
>> So of all people to squander energy it shouldnt be him.
>>
>> You might want to look into Cripple Creek Coal which he is on the 
>>board of directors.
>>
>> Kirk
>>
>>Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>   Hi Kirk and all,
>> When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, 
>>so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but 
>>there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. 
>>It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man.
>> Tom Irwin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-
>>
>>From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To:  biofuel 
>>Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
>>Date:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
>>


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[Biofuel] vanishing honey bees

[Kirk McLoren]

++
| Vanishing Honeybees Will Affect Future Crops   |
|   from the bee-gone dept.  |
|   posted by kdawson on Tuesday February 27, @14:07 (Bug)   |
|   http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/27/179237   |
++

[0]daninbusiness writes "Across the US, beekeepers are finding that 
their
[1]bees are disappearing — not returning while searching for nectar 
and
pollen. This could have a major impact on the food industry in the 
United
States, where as much as $14 billion worth of agriculture business
depends on bees for crop pollination. Reasons for this problem, dubbed
'colony collapse disorder,' are still unknown. Theories include 
viruses,
some type of fungus, poor bee nutrition, and pesticides."

Discuss this story at:
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=07/02/27/179237

Links:
0. http://daninbusiness.blogspot.com/
1. 
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/27/business/27bees.html/partner/rssnyt


 
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Re: [Biofuel] Torture Is Finally on Trial

[Guag Meister]

Hi Keith ;

This is scary stuff.  And how long do the feds think
it will take the other guys to figure these techniques
out and start using them on us??

Best Regards,

Peter G.

--- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> http://www.alternet.org/rights/48489/
> 
> Torture Is Finally on Trial
> 
> By Naomi Klein, The Guardian. Posted February 26,
> 2007.
> 
> America has deliberately driven hundreds, perhaps
> thousands, of 
> prisoners insane. Now it is being held to account in
> a Miami court.
> 
> Something remarkable is going on in a Miami
> courtroom. The cruel 
> methods US interrogators have used since September
> 11 to "break" 
> prisoners are finally being put on trial. This was
> not supposed to 
> happen. The Bush administration's plan was to put
> José Padilla on 
> trial for allegedly being part of a network linked
> to international 
> terrorists. But Padilla's lawyers are arguing that
> he is not fit to 
> stand trial because he has been driven insane by the
> government.
> 
> Arrested in May 2002 at Chicago's O'Hare airport,
> Padilla, a 
> Brooklyn-born former gang member, was classified as
> an "enemy 
> combatant" and taken to a navy prison in Charleston,
> South Carolina. 
> He was kept in a cell 9ft by 7ft, with no natural
> light, no clock and 
> no calendar. Whenever Padilla left the cell, he was
> shackled and 
> suited in heavy goggles and headphones. Padilla was
> kept under these 
> conditions for 1,307 days. He was forbidden contact
> with anyone but 
> his interrogators, who punctured the extreme sensory
> deprivation with 
> sensory overload, blasting him with harsh lights and
> pounding sounds. 
> Padilla also says he was injected with a "truth
> serum," a substance 
> his lawyers believe was LSD or PCP.
> 
> According to his lawyers and two mental health
> specialists who 
> examined him, Padilla has been so shattered that he
> lacks the ability 
> to assist in his own defence. He is convinced that
> his lawyers are 
> "part of a continuing interrogation program" and
> sees his captors as 
> protectors. In order to prove that "the extended
> torture visited upon 
> Mr Padilla has left him damaged," his lawyers want
> to tell the court 
> what happened during those years in the navy brig.
> The prosecution 
> strenuously objects, maintaining that "Padilla is
> competent" and that 
> his treatment is irrelevant.
> 
> The US district judge Marcia Cooke disagrees. "It's
> not like Mr 
> Padilla was living in a box. He was at a place.
> Things happened to 
> him at that place." The judge has ordered several
> prison employees to 
> testify on Padilla's mental state at the hearings,
> which began 
> yesterday. They will be asked how a man who is
> alleged to have 
> engaged in elaborate anti-government plots now acts,
> in the words of 
> brig staff, "like a piece of furniture."
> 
> It's difficult to overstate the significance of
> these hearings. The 
> techniques used to break Padilla have been standard
> operating 
> procedure at Guantánamo Bay since the first
> prisoners arrived five 
> years ago. They wore blackout goggles and
> sound-blocking headphones 
> and were placed in extended isolation, interrupted
> by strobe lights 
> and heavy metal music. These same practices have
> been documented in 
> dozens of cases of "extraordinary rendition" carried
> out by the CIA, 
> as well as in prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> Many have suffered the same symptoms as Padilla.
> According to James 
> Yee, a former army Muslim chaplain at Guantánamo,
> there is an entire 
> section of the prison called Delta Block for
> detainees who have been 
> reduced to a delusional state. "They would respond
> to me in a 
> childlike voice, talking complete nonsense. Many of
> them would loudly 
> sing childish songs, repeating the song over and
> over." All the 
> inmates of Delta Block were on 24-hour suicide
> watch.
> 
> Human Rights Watch has exposed a US-run detention
> facility near Kabul 
> known as the "prison of darkness" -- tiny
> pitch-black cells, strange 
> blaring sounds. "Plenty lost their minds," one
> former inmate 
> recalled. "I could hear people knocking their heads
> against the walls 
> and the doors."
> 
> These standard mind-breaking techniques have never
> faced scrutiny in 
> an American court because the prisoners in the jails
> are foreigners 
> and have been stripped of the right of habeas corpus
> -- a denial 
> that, scandalously, was just upheld by a federal
> appeals court in 
> Washington DC. There is only one reason Padilla's
> case is different 
> -- he is a US citizen. The administration did not
> originally intend 
> to bring Padilla to trial, but when his status as an
> enemy combatant 
> faced a supreme court challenge, the administration
> abruptly changed 
> course, charging Padilla and transferring him to
> civilian custody. 
> That makes Padilla's case unique -- he is the only
> victim of the 
> post-9/11 legal netherworld to face an ordinary U

Re: [Biofuel] LED light bulbs

[Paul S Cantrell]

Joe,
I did test out a LED exit light in our dining room light fixture with
a dimmer, but they didn't dim.  It was just on at a certain point and
stayed on.

Maybe there are ones designed to dim???   Like dimmable CFL's?

On 2/27/07, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Are these LED lights able to work with a dimmer?  The last place in my
> house that doesn't have CF bulbs is a room which has five pot lights which
> are connected to a dimmer.  CF bulbs can't be used on a dimmer so I hope
> these LED lights are an alternative.  Anyone tried it?
>
>  Joe


-- 
Thanks,
PC

He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made
in a very narrow field. - Niels Bohr  (1885 - 1962)

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[Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconveniant Truth'

[Fritz Friesinger]

Hi Terry,

The main issue is that both Al Gore and Dr. Suzuki are influencing alot of 
people which is the most important thing now.  Time is important because 
2007 could be the pivitol year to save this planet.

David Suzuki wrote in his Book : "towards the year 2040" ,the pivitol year to 
save this planet was 2004 ! Are we delaying this now from year to year??
just wondering
Fritz 

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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Kirk McLoren]

Weakness?
  gas lamps in the yard are not an indulgance in driving a bit too fast or 
fogetting to turn off the light in the kitchen.
  If you dont see anything wrong with that then I suppose you would accept Bush 
as a spokesman for civil liberty
  and honesty in politics.
   
  Kirk

Terry Dyck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hi Kirk,

When a do gooder becomes as famous as Al Gore there are always going to be 
people who will point out weeknesses that he may have. On the other hand I 
am looking at the good that Al Gore has done at educating the public about 
Global Warming. The "Live Earth" concert that Al Gore is doing on July 7, 
2007 on 7 continents will be one of the best things to educate people and 
make them aware of GHG s. Billions of people will watch this 24 hour 
concert all over this planet.
When it comes to walking the walk, some people have done this and the media 
hasn't really picked up on it. In Canada the national leader of the N.D.P 
federal political party, Jack Layton, bikes to work and has solar power and 
heating in his home and does other green things but this is not known by 
very many people. On the other hand the Prime Minister of Canada gets lots 
of publicity about green issues and doesn't do much in the way of actions.

Terry Dyck


>From: Kirk McLoren 
>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: biofuel 
>Subject: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>
> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
> Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth': While telling the rest of us to cut 
>back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…
> http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659
>
> Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year in 
>utility bills. How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?
>
> (2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in 
>his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in 
>the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired 
>and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to 
>make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental 
>hypocrisy.
>
> Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee 
>Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills 
>for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 
>221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 
>10,656 kilowatt-hours.
>
> "If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I 
>wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But 
>he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."
>
> Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing 
>here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely 
>lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most 
>effective opponent."
>
> Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the 
>Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed 
>out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that 
>"the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And 
>what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that 
>footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it."
>
> A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions 
>each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her 
>transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the 
>manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can 
>calculate your own carbon footprint on the website 
>http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)
>
> The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries 
>to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local 
>Green Power Switch program — electricity generated through renewable 
>resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and 
>pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels 
>on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. 
>"They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency 
>measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring 
>their carbon footprint down to zero."
>
> These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar 
>panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a 
>heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching 
>out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates."
>
> The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the 
>Gores in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 
>18,414 kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200 kilowatt

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Kirk McLoren]

If he used the power in his business ok but
  natural gas lanterns in his yard
  Those are decorative - if you want light you dont burn a torch.
  So if he wont curb personal indulgance he doesnt believe what he espouses for 
the rest of us..
  Forget weak flesh - how about belief.
  He doesnt believe what he tells us.
  That is a liar not a hypocrite.
  Are we destroying the world or not? for ambiance at his parties?
   
  Kirk
   
   
  
Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Fred Oliff wrote:
> actually to me both are important. I think one of the worst things one can be 
> called is a hypocrite. 

Then you might want to do a bit of reading.

The knee jerk reaction is to recommend Jeremy Lott's
"In Defense of Hypocrisy" but that's a cheap shot.

There's a paper out there, that I of course can't
find,(I'll dig for it if you are interested), that
some say inspired Neal Stephenson to write this
passage given by one of his more interesting fictional characters
(as if he had any other kind) which goes:

--this is copyrighted work, quoted here in context and under
fair use

“You know, when I was a young man, hypocrisy was deemed the worst of
vices,” Finkle-McGraw said. “It was all because of moral relativism. You
see, in that sort of a climate, you are not allowed to criticise
others—after all, if there is no absolute right and wrong, then what
grounds is there for criticism?”

…

“Now, this led to a good deal of general frustration, for people are
naturally censorious and love nothing better than to criticise others’
shortcomings. And so it was that they seized on hypocrisy and elevated
it from a ubiquitous peccadillo into the monarch of all vices. For, you
see, even if there is no right and wrong, you can find grounds to
criticise another person by contrasting what he has espoused with what
he has actually done. In this case, you are not making any judgment
whatsoever as to the correctness of his views or the morality of his
behaviour—you are merely pointing out that he has said one thing and
done another. Virtually all political discourse in the days of my youth
was devoted to the ferreting out of hypocrisy.

…

“We take a somewhat different view of hypocrisy,” Finkle-McGraw
continued. “In the late-twentieth-century Weltanschauung, a hypocrite
was someone who espoused high moral views as part of a planned campaign
of deception—he never held these beliefs sincerely and routinely
violated them in privacy. Of course, most hypocrites are not like that.
Most of the time it’s a spirit-is-willing, flesh-is-weak sort of thing.”

-end quote-
Neal Stephenson, the Diamond Age.


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Re: [Biofuel] LED light bulbs

[Joe Street]

Are these LED lights able to work with a dimmer?  The last place in my 
house that doesn't have CF bulbs is a room which has five pot lights 
which are connected to a dimmer.  CF bulbs can't be used on a dimmer so 
I hope these LED lights are an alternative.  Anyone tried it?


Joe

Paul S Cantrell wrote:


On 2/24/07, Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/index.aspx

Some nifty lights.
Dont think I agree with the economic analysis near bottom of page though.

Kirk
   



I agree.  It's a bit disingenuous to compare to incandescents, when
CFL's are their true competition in energy efficient lighting.  They
should at least show all three.

I have 2 LED bulbs that I got really cheaply.  They are 1.3 Watts,
which I verified with a Kill-a-watt meter.  The color is really
bluish, but not entirely unpleasant.  I have one in my kitchen on at
night to keep us from turning on the overhead 100 Watt light fixture
to get some water or let the dogs out at night.  I don't have it on a
timer, because the timer uses more power than the bulb.

The other is a night light.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=18-LED-CLR

They now have a 20 LED for $6.50.
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=BLU-MUSHROOM-LED20

 

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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[swracz]

Everyone seems to have missed that, based on the numbers given, Al  
Gore has reduced his power usage by 12% from 2005 to 2006 and has  
plans for more reductions. Isn't that what it's all about?

The fact that his bill has gone up is probably a function of the  
increased price of energy, not increased consumption. I'm sure it's  
the same for all of us.

Steve

Quoting Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>
>
> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
>   Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth':  While telling the rest of us to   
> cut back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than   
> everyone else…
>   http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659
>
>   Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a   
> year in utility bills.  How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?
>
>   (2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely   
> ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is   
> no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth,"   
> the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local   
> free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic   
> of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.
>
>   Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the   
> Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and  
>  electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and  
> pool  house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more  
> than 20  times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.
>
>   "If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility   
> bills, I wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president,   
> Drew Johnson. "But he tells other people how to live and he's not   
> following his own rules."
>
>   Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're   
> seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've  
>  completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just   
> attacking their most effective opponent."
>
>   Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the   
> Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she   
> pointed out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and   
> she argued that "the bottom line is that every family has a   
> different carbon footprint. And what Vice President Gore has asked   
> is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to reduce  
>  and offset it."
>
>   A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel   
> emissions each person is responsible for, either directly because of  
>  his or her transportation and energy consumption or indirectly   
> because of the manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or   
> she uses. (You can calculate your own carbon footprint on the   
> website http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)
>
>   The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family   
> tries to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power   
> through the local Green Power Switch program — electricity generated  
>  through renewable resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas,   
> which create less waste and pollution. "In addition, they are in the  
>  midst of installing solar panels on their home, which will enable   
> them to use less power," Kreider added. "They also use compact   
> fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency measures and then they  
>  purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon   
> footprint down to zero."
>
>   These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the   
> solar panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his  
>  yard, a heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that   
> he's switching out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle   
> that he advocates."
>
>   The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show   
> the Gores in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for   
> using 18,414 kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200   
> kilowatt-hours in 2005. During that time, Nashville Gas Company   
> billed the family an average of $536 a month for the main house and   
> $544 for the pool house in 2006, and $640 for the main house and   
> $525 for the pool house in 2005. That averages out to be $29,268 in   
> gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, $31,512 in 2005.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.




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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Randall]

Terry,

Why can't Al do video conferences instead of traveling, or is he simply too 
"important" not to make personal appearances?   Bet there are more than a 
few people that traveled more than 20 minutes just to see/hear him speak. 
What did that extra travelling by the audience, staff, promoters, 
concessions people, security, law enforcement, etc contribute to overall 
pollution instead of people being able to simply watching Al on TV or their 
computer.  I bet he gets MUCH more money for making a personal appearance 
than just a conference call or distributing a video.  He had the right idea 
with his movie...

But, I suppose the important and "inconvenient truth" in this matter is that 
Al is a politician--period.  Actions speak MUCH MUCH louder than words...and 
that is why it is "ok" to attack (or at least seriously question) the 
messenger's motives when the messenger is delivering an "ethical" 
message---Otherwise you will need to bring back a bunch of "fallen" 
televangelists.  :-)  IMO he is simply another person that wants (or needs) 
to be heard and doesn't really HONESTLY care what happens as a result.I 
rank him up there with Jerry Falwell and any number of failed politicos.

---Randall


- Original Message - 
From: "Terry Dyck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use


> Hi Fre,
>
> I attended Dr. David Suzuki's event in Kelowna 2 days ago and he mentioned
> that he travels with his family to the Okanagan every summer to pick
> cherries and I know that Dr. Suzuki was the first person in Canada to buy 
> a
> Prius Hybrid car.  So he probally uses the hybrid to travel to the 
> Okanagan
> valley.  As far as the environmental tour called, "If your were Prime
> Minister what would you do?" I am sure that he has to cover a lot of
> terrritory in a short period of time.
>
> The main issue is that both Al Gore and Dr. Suzuki are influencing alot of
> people which is the most important thing now.  Time is important because
> 2007 could be the pivitol year to save this planet.
>
> Terry Dyck
>
>
>>From: "Fred Oliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
>>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:40:30 -0500
>>
>>
>>
>>Al Gore flew from Montreal to Toronto last week. I would have thought a
>>true advocate for climate change could have found someone with 1)maybe a
>>Smart car to drive him, 2)powered with biodiesel or some other renewable
>>fuel. David Suzuki is on a 50-city cross Canada tour and I understand he
>>is also flying everywhere. When does the medium (i.e. the messenger)
>>become more important than the message?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To: biofuel 
>>Subject: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
>>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth': While telling the rest of us to cut back,
>>he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else.
>>http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659
>>
>>Heated pools.electronic gates.gas lanterns in yard.and $30,000 a year in
>>utility bills. How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?
>>
>>(2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in 
>>his
>>suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the
>>Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and
>>in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make
>>that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental
>>hypocrisy.
>>
>>Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee
>>Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills
>>for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured 
>>nearly
>>221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of
>>10,656 kilowatt-hours.
>>
>>"If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I
>>wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. 
>>"But
>>he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."
>>
>>Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing 
>>here
>>is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost
>>the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective
>>opponent."
>>
>>
>>Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's
>>figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that
>>both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the
>>bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And 
>>what
>>Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint
>>and take steps

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Chip Mefford]

Fred Oliff wrote:
> actually to me both are important.  I think one of the worst things one can 
> be 
> called is a hypocrite. 

Then you might want to do a bit of reading.

The knee jerk reaction is to recommend Jeremy Lott's
"In Defense of Hypocrisy" but that's a cheap shot.

There's a paper out there, that I of course can't
find,(I'll dig for it if you are interested), that
some say inspired Neal Stephenson to write this
passage given by one of his more interesting fictional characters
(as if he had any other kind) which goes:

--this is copyrighted work, quoted here in context and under
fair use

“You know, when I was a young man, hypocrisy was deemed the worst of
vices,” Finkle-McGraw said. “It was all because of moral relativism. You
see, in that sort of a climate, you are not allowed to criticise
others—after all, if there is no absolute right and wrong, then what
grounds is there for criticism?”

…

“Now, this led to a good deal of general frustration, for people are
naturally censorious and love nothing better than to criticise others’
shortcomings. And so it was that they seized on hypocrisy and elevated
it from a ubiquitous peccadillo into the monarch of all vices. For, you
see, even if there is no right and wrong, you can find grounds to
criticise another person by contrasting what he has espoused with what
he has actually done. In this case, you are not making any judgment
whatsoever as to the correctness of his views or the morality of his
behaviour—you are merely pointing out that he has said one thing and
done another. Virtually all political discourse in the days of my youth
was devoted to the ferreting out of hypocrisy.

…

“We take a somewhat different view of hypocrisy,” Finkle-McGraw
continued. “In the late-twentieth-century Weltanschauung, a hypocrite
was someone who espoused high moral views as part of a planned campaign
of deception—he never held these beliefs sincerely and routinely
violated them in privacy. Of course, most hypocrites are not like that.
Most of the time it’s a spirit-is-willing, flesh-is-weak sort of thing.”

-end quote-
Neal Stephenson, the Diamond Age.


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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Terry Dyck]

Hi Fred,

Okay, maybe you or I could be that person but it wouldn't work because we 
don't have the high profile or the credentials and in my case , not knowing 
your income, the money to do what Al Gore is doing.  So let Al Gore do that 
job and eventually he will see that he needs to cut down on material things 
just like the rest of us.


Terry Dyck



From: "Fred Oliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:59:58 -0500





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actually to me both are important.  I think one of the worst things one can be called is a hypocrite. if Al Gore's squanders energy perhaps they ought to find someone esle to be the spokesperson for the Earth.




From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:  Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:45:14 -0800 (PST)

The message is - It isnt really that important. If it were I would do it.  
So how true is it - at least to him.  
If it doent motivate him maybe he knows something we dont.  
So of all people to squander energy it shouldnt be him.  
   
You might want to look into Cripple Creek Coal which he is on the board of directors.  
   
KirkTom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
  
  
  
Hi Kirk and all,  
When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man.   
Tom Irwin  
  
  


From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:  biofuel Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)  

   



  




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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Terry Dyck]

Hi Chip,

Want to here about hypocrits; here in Canada, were reducing green house 
gases is the top political priority, some political parties are accepting 
campaign funds from Oil Companies and telling Canadians that they want to 
reduce emmissions.


Terry Dyck



From: Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:48:26 -0500

Kirk McLoren wrote:
>
> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
>   Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth':  While telling the rest of us to cut 
back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…

>   http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659
>
>   Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year 
in utility bills.  How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?


I spell it ad hominem

>From wikipedia;

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin:
"argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of
replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making
the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument.
It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem
abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or
personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit
that argument.

Other common subtypes of the ad hominem include the ad hominem
circumstantial, or ad hominem circumstantiae, an attack which is
directed at the circumstances or situation of the arguer; and the ad
hominem tu quoque, which objects to an argument by characterizing the
arguer as being guilty of the same thing that he is arguing against.

cit-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Terry Dyck]

Hi Kirk,

If all of us did what we should be doing our houses would be one room heated 
with Geo Thermal, hot water and electricity by solar and we would walk or 
bike almost everywere and we would be totally Vegan.  The Union of Concerned 
Scientists reports that because of the amount of Methane gas caused from 
feed lots, etc. that the total of all livestock on this planet is equivalent 
to taking 33 million cars of the road.


Terry Dyck


From: Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:45:14 -0800 (PST)

The message is - It isnt really that important. If it were I would do it.
  So how true is it - at least to him.
  If it doent motivate him maybe he knows something we dont.
  So of all people to squander energy it shouldnt be him.

  You might want to look into Cripple Creek Coal which he is on the board 
of directors.


  Kirk

Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Kirk and all,
  When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so 
Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a 
long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message 
that´s inportant, not the man.

  Tom Irwin





-

From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To:  biofuel 
Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Date:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)






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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Fred Oliff]

actually to me both are important.  I think one of the worst things one can be called is a hypocrite. if Al Gore's squanders energy perhaps they ought to find someone esle to be the spokesperson for the Earth.




From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:  Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:45:14 -0800 (PST)

The message is - It isnt really that important. If it were I would do it.  
So how true is it - at least to him.  
If it doent motivate him maybe he knows something we dont.  
So of all people to squander energy it shouldnt be him.  
   
You might want to look into Cripple Creek Coal which he is on the board of directors.  
   
KirkTom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
  
  
  
Hi Kirk and all,  
When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man.   
Tom Irwin  
  
  


From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:  biofuel Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)  

   



  




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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Terry Dyck]

Hi Fre,

I attended Dr. David Suzuki's event in Kelowna 2 days ago and he mentioned 
that he travels with his family to the Okanagan every summer to pick 
cherries and I know that Dr. Suzuki was the first person in Canada to buy a 
Prius Hybrid car.  So he probally uses the hybrid to travel to the Okanagan 
valley.  As far as the environmental tour called, "If your were Prime 
Minister what would you do?" I am sure that he has to cover a lot of 
terrritory in a short period of time.


The main issue is that both Al Gore and Dr. Suzuki are influencing alot of 
people which is the most important thing now.  Time is important because 
2007 could be the pivitol year to save this planet.


Terry Dyck



From: "Fred Oliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:40:30 -0500



Al Gore flew from Montreal to Toronto last week.  I would have thought a 
true advocate for climate change could have found someone with 1)maybe a 
Smart car to drive him, 2)powered with biodiesel or some other renewable 
fuel.  David Suzuki is on a 50-city cross Canada tour and I understand he 
is also flying everywhere.  When does the medium (i.e. the messenger) 
become more important than the message?







From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:  biofuel 
Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Date:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)




  





  
  
Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth':  While telling the rest of us to cut back, 
he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…  

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659  
   
Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year in 
utility bills.  How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?  

   
(2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his 
suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the 
Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and 
in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make 
that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental 
hypocrisy.  

   
Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee 
Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills 
for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 
221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 
10,656 kilowatt-hours.  

   
"If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I 
wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But 
he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."  

   
Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here 
is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost 
the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective 
opponent."

  
   
Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's 
figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that 
both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the 
bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what 
Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint 
and take steps to reduce and offset it."   

   
A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each 
person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her 
transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the 
manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can 
calculate your own carbon footprint on the website 
http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)  

   
The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries to 
offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local 
Green Power Switch program — electricity generated through renewable 
resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and 
pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels 
on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. 
"They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency 
measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring 
their carbon footprint down to zero."

  
   
These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar 
panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a 
heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching 
out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates."  

   
The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the Gores 
in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 18,414 
kilowatt-hours, and $1

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Fred Oliff]

Tom,
I like your answer better.


From: "Tom Irwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:40:38 +


Hi Kirk and all,
When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man. 
Tom Irwin




From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:  biofuel Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
  





  
  
Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth':  While telling the rest of us to cut back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…  
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659  
   
Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year in utility bills.  How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?  
   
(2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.  
   
Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.  
   
"If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."  
   
Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective opponent."
  
   
Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it."   
   
A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can calculate your own carbon footprint on the website http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)  
   
The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local Green Power Switch program — electricity generated through renewable resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. "They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to zero."
  
   
These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates."  
   
The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the Gores in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 18,414 kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200 kilowatt-hours in 2005. During that time, Nashville Gas Company billed the family an average of $536 a month for the main house and $544 for the pool house in 2006, and $640 for the main house and $525 for the pool house in 2005. That averages out to be $29,268 in gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, $31,512 in 2005.  
 





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Express yourself 

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Terry Dyck]

Hi Kirk,

When a do gooder becomes as famous as Al Gore there are always going to be 
people who will point out weeknesses that he may have.  On the other hand I 
am looking at the good that Al Gore has done at educating the public about 
Global Warming.  The "Live Earth" concert that Al Gore is doing on July 7, 
2007 on 7 continents will be one of the best things to educate people and 
make them aware of GHG s.  Billions of people will watch this 24 hour 
concert all over this planet.
When it comes to walking the walk, some people have done this and the media 
hasn't really picked up on it.  In Canada the national leader of the N.D.P 
federal political party, Jack Layton, bikes to work and has solar power and 
heating in his home and does other green things but this is not known by 
very many people.  On the other hand the Prime Minister of Canada gets lots 
of publicity about green issues and doesn't do much in the way of actions.


Terry Dyck



From: Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel 
Subject: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)



st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
  Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth':  While telling the rest of us to cut 
back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…

  http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659

  Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year in 
utility bills.  How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?


  (2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in 
his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in 
the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired 
and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to 
make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental 
hypocrisy.


  Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee 
Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills 
for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 
221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 
10,656 kilowatt-hours.


  "If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I 
wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But 
he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."


  Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing 
here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely 
lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most 
effective opponent."


  Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the 
Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed 
out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that 
"the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And 
what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that 
footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it."


  A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions 
each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her 
transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the 
manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can 
calculate your own carbon footprint on the website 
http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)


  The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries 
to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local 
Green Power Switch program — electricity generated through renewable 
resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and 
pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels 
on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. 
"They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency 
measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring 
their carbon footprint down to zero."


  These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar 
panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a 
heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching 
out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates."


  The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the 
Gores in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 
18,414 kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200 kilowatt-hours 
in 2005. During that time, Nashville Gas Company billed the family an 
average of $536 a month for the main house and $544 for the pool house in 
2006, and $640 for the main house and $525 for the pool house in 2005. That 
averages out to be $29,268 in gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, 
$31,512 in 2005.

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Fred Oliff]

Al Gore flew from Montreal to Toronto last week.  I would have thought a true advocate for climate change could have found someone with 1)maybe a Smart car to drive him, 2)powered with biodiesel or some other renewable fuel.  David Suzuki is on a 50-city cross Canada tour and I understand he is also flying everywhere.  When does the medium (i.e. the messenger) become more important than the message?




From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:  biofuel Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
  





  
  
Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth':  While telling the rest of us to cut back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…  
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659  
   
Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year in utility bills.  How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?  
   
(2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.  
   
Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.  
   
"If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."  
   
Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective opponent."
  
   
Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it."   
   
A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can calculate your own carbon footprint on the website http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)  
   
The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local Green Power Switch program — electricity generated through renewable resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. "They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to zero."
  
   
These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates."  
   
The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the Gores in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 18,414 kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200 kilowatt-hours in 2005. During that time, Nashville Gas Company billed the family an average of $536 a month for the main house and $544 for the pool house in 2006, and $640 for the main house and $525 for the pool house in 2005. That averages out to be $29,268 in gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, $31,512 in 2005.  
 





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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Chip Mefford]

Kirk McLoren wrote:
> 
> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }  
>   Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth':  While telling the rest of us to cut back, 
> he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…
>   http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659
>
>   Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year in 
> utility bills.  How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?

I spell it ad hominem

>From wikipedia;

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin:
"argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of
replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making
the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument.
It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem
abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or
personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit
that argument.

Other common subtypes of the ad hominem include the ad hominem
circumstantial, or ad hominem circumstantiae, an attack which is
directed at the circumstances or situation of the arguer; and the ad
hominem tu quoque, which objects to an argument by characterizing the
arguer as being guilty of the same thing that he is arguing against.

cit-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Kirk McLoren]

The message is - It isnt really that important. If it were I would do it.
  So how true is it - at least to him.
  If it doent motivate him maybe he knows something we dont.
  So of all people to squander energy it shouldnt be him.
   
  You might want to look into Cripple Creek Coal which he is on the board of 
directors.
   
  Kirk

Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Kirk and all,
  When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so Gore 
doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a long way to 
go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message that´s inportant, 
not the man. 
  Tom Irwin



  

-

From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To:  biofuel 
Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Date:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
  



  

-
  


 
-
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Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Tom Irwin]

Hi Kirk and all,
When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man. 
Tom Irwin




From:  Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:  biofuel Subject:  [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)
  





  
  
Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth':  While telling the rest of us to cut back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…  
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659  
   
Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year in utility bills.  How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?  
   
(2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.  
   
Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.  
   
"If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."  
   
Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective opponent."
  
   
Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it."   
   
A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can calculate your own carbon footprint on the website http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)  
   
The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local Green Power Switch program — electricity generated through renewable resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. "They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to zero."
  
   
These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates."  
   
The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the Gores in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 18,414 kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200 kilowatt-hours in 2005. During that time, Nashville Gas Company billed the family an average of $536 a month for the main house and $544 for the pool house in 2006, and $640 for the main house and $525 for the pool house in 2005. That averages out to be $29,268 in gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, $31,512 in 2005.  
 





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[Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

[Kirk McLoren]

st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }  
  Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth':  While telling the rest of us to cut back, he 
uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else…
  http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659
   
  Heated pools…electronic gates…gas lanterns in yard…and $30,000 a year in 
utility bills.  How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?
   
  (2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his 
suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the 
Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in 
which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that 
very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.
   
  Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center 
for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the 
former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 
kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 
kilowatt-hours.
   
  "If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I 
wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But he 
tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."
   
  Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here 
is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the 
debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective 
opponent."
   
  Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's 
figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that both 
Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the bottom line 
is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what Vice President 
Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to 
reduce and offset it." 
   
  A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each 
person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her transportation 
and energy consumption or indirectly because of the manufacture and eventual 
breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can calculate your own carbon 
footprint on the website http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)
   
  The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries to 
offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local Green 
Power Switch program — electricity generated through renewable resources such 
as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and pollution. "In 
addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels on their home, which 
will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. "They also use compact 
fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency measures and then they purchase 
offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to 
zero."
   
  These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar panels," 
he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a heated pool, and 
an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching out some light bulbs, 
he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates."
   
  The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the Gores in 
2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 18,414 
kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200 kilowatt-hours in 2005. 
During that time, Nashville Gas Company billed the family an average of $536 a 
month for the main house and $544 for the pool house in 2006, and $640 for the 
main house and $525 for the pool house in 2005. That averages out to be $29,268 
in gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, $31,512 in 2005.
   



 
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[Biofuel] Chemical Risks to Workers

[Kirk McLoren]

  

Chemical Risks to Workers

Do you realize the implications from this dangerous,
and morally depraved act ??? 

POTENTIAL IMPACT OF INDUSTRY LITIGATION ON
COMMUNICATING CHEMICAL RISKS TO WORKERS

The American Society of Safety Engineers (ASSE) has
expressed concern over the recent lawsuit filed by
industry groups challenging the Occupational Safety
and Health Administration’s (OSHA) use of threshold
limit values (TLVs) used to communicate the risk of
exposure limits to chemical hazards through OSHA’s
Hazard Communication Standard (HazCom). 

ASSE is concerned that if successful, this suit could
prevent workers from obtaining the best available
information on chemical exposure limits from employers
under the HazCom standard by preventing the inclusion
of TLVs on material safety data sheets (MSDSs), a
practice that has existed for 25 years. 

“The issue of setting appropriate exposure limits for
dangerous chemicals being used in the workplace is a
difficult one that calls for cooperative efforts,”
said ASSE President Donald S. Jones, Sr., P.E., CSP. 

“We feel OSHA is trying to ensure that employees have
the best scientific data available on exposure limits
to certain hazardous chemicals. 

The lawsuit against OSHA’s use of TLVs in the HazCom
Standard reinforces the need for all stakeholders to
address updating workplace exposure limits, an effort
that may well require direction from Congress as well
as leadership from OSHA.

For more information please go to www.asse.org 

To view complete release go to
http://www.asse.org/newsroom/release.php?pressRelease773

SOURCE The American Society of Safety Engineers
Nicole Camiola
New Equipment Digest
Online Content Editor
Filed under: OSHA, MSDS, ASSE, American Society of
Safety Engineers





 
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Re: [Biofuel] Pasteurised raw milk?

[George Page]

Not ours!  We sell whole, raw milk direct from our Farm on Vashon Island
(WA-USA), as well as at local Seattle Farmer's markets and also at a couple
of Seattle area grocery stores.  We're lucky to have favorable laws here in
WA state.  What's up with Europe though?  I'm in Spain right now, and the
milk is all horrid UHT stuff!

George Page
www.seabreezefarm.net
Vashon Island, WA USA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 11:13 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Pasteurised raw milk?

Seems your organic raw milk might be pasteurised anyway.

http://www.strausfamilycreamery.com/?id=34
Pasteurization

:-(

Francis Pottenger, where are you when we need you?

Best

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] LED light bulbs

[Paul S Cantrell]

On 2/24/07, Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/index.aspx
>
> Some nifty lights.
> Dont think I agree with the economic analysis near bottom of page though.
>
> Kirk

I agree.  It's a bit disingenuous to compare to incandescents, when
CFL's are their true competition in energy efficient lighting.  They
should at least show all three.

I have 2 LED bulbs that I got really cheaply.  They are 1.3 Watts,
which I verified with a Kill-a-watt meter.  The color is really
bluish, but not entirely unpleasant.  I have one in my kitchen on at
night to keep us from turning on the overhead 100 Watt light fixture
to get some water or let the dogs out at night.  I don't have it on a
timer, because the timer uses more power than the bulb.

The other is a night light.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=18-LED-CLR

They now have a 20 LED for $6.50.
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=BLU-MUSHROOM-LED20

-- 
Thanks,
PC

He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made
in a very narrow field. - Niels Bohr  (1885 - 1962)

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Re: [Biofuel] Global warming: enough to make you sick

[Chip Mefford]

Keith Addison wrote:
> Hi Zeke
> 
>> The "but we did not expect this to happen so soon" argument could be 
>> reworded as "I thought that I could avoid dealing with this problem 
>> I've caused, and didn't really care that my children and 
>> grandchildren would be screwed"   Not a very strong argument, it 
>> seems to me.
> 
> No, but that probably doesn't stop people using it anyway.
> 
> But I didn't mean it as an argument, it's what the climate scientists 
> keep saying in reporting the signs, the pace of change keeps 
> exceeding their predictions, whether it's glaciers receding or ice 
> shelves melting or whatever.
> 
> Or the onset of spring - two months early! And the winter was so mild 
> the soil didn't even get a chance to freeze, so stuff just went on 
> growing, if slowly. We're certainly pleased about that, very relieved 
> we didn't have another rough winter like last time, so our three 
> poultry flocks, new pastures, new growing beds and new farming system 
> survived. But chickens are sitting on clutches of eggs already, both 
> the geese and the Muscovies are laying eggs and making nests and so 
> on, and it looks like we're going to have swarms of young birds to 
> feed and to house two months earlier than we were bargaining for, 
> somewhat dismaying. Indeed we did not expect this to happen so soon. 
> Damn.
> 
> Best
> 
> Keith
> 

Well, there is also this other fun;

My livestock is trees, and I'm loosing them like crazy to all kinds
of disease that I can't get a handle on. Something that I am convinced
that is the result of the lack of a good solid winter for a while now.
That coupled with this massive influx of introduced species popping up
all over the place, stuff that's better adapted to this new climate and
that the deer won't touch,

And the deer for that matter, more of 'em, less to eat, and all my
neighbors, and I mean all of them, have lymes now. I'm the only one
so far unaffected, and I spend more time in the bush. Now, chronic
wasting disease is starting to show up in nearby herds, and for
that matter, the emerald ash borer has been found nearby as well.

Saw 1/8" of ice on a rododendron blossom last week. That made me
really sad. I am used to seeing them in early april, not mid-feb.
But then again, I saw blooming mountain laurel right next to a
silver maple that was starting to turn for the fall 8 years ago.

Who knows? but something is definitely going on.

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Re: [Biofuel] Harsh laws?

[Keith Addison]

Oh, so that's okay then. On the other hand...

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4022
Foreign Policy In Focus |

Migrants: Globalization's Junk Mail?

Laura Carlsen | February 23, 2007

Editor: John Feffer, IRC


Foreign Policy In Focus
www.fpif.org

The titles that Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) attaches 
to its operations reveal a great deal about the logic behind current 
U.S. immigration policy.

Among the most suggestively titled is the ongoing Operation "Return 
to Sender," one of the largest such operations in U.S. history. The 
program, supposedly designed to target "fugitive aliens," has 
resulted in the indiscriminate round up of over 13,000 undocumented 
migrants in cities throughout the United States.

The cynical name given to this even more cynical operation implies a 
sender, a receiver -- and an object. The object, or rather objects, 
are migrant workers and their families.

Operation Return to Sender is an instrumentalist policy that ignores 
the humanity of migrant workers. It refuses to recognize that 
migrants have hopes and dreams, that they have a legitimate need to 
eat and think and act. It denies family ties and affective 
relationships. It also ignores the central role that undocumented 
workers play in the U.S. economy and the factors that brought them to 
the country in the first place.

In short, Operation Return to Sender acts on the premise that the 
millions of undocumented workers in the United States today are 
little more than globalization's junk mail.

Who's the Sender?

A large proportion of the detentions in Operation Return to Sender 
have been Mexicans, which is logical given that most undocumented 
migrants are Mexican. According to immigration expert Raúl Delgado 
Wise of the University of Zacatecas, Mexico is now the world champion 
in exporting its own people, with 11 million Mexicans currently 
residing in the United States. The migratory drain on Mexico's 
population shows up in demographic statistics, where 800 townships 
now register negative growth.

The reason for this massive out-migration is clear. Mexico is not 
producing enough decent jobs for its people -- and the United States 
is hiring. Between 2000 and 2005, Mexico lost 900,000 rural jobs and 
700,000 in industry. President Felipe Calderon got off to a bad start 
in his attempt to reverse this trend. Government statistics for the 
first two months of his administration showed a loss of 178,370 jobs 
in the formal sector. The future doesn't look any rosier. A recent 
Bank of Mexico business survey projected 615,000 new jobs this year, 
representing a drop of 300,000 compared to last year and far short of 
the estimated one-million-plus jobs needed to absorb the number of 
Mexicans who enter the labor market every year.

Growing unemployment and massive labor outflow are the results of the 
lopsided way Mexico has integrated into the global economy. Raúl 
Delgado Wise puts it bluntly: "The strategy that Mexico followed 
through the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and 
indiscriminate trade liberalization detonated an explosive growth in 
migration."

The National Campesino Front estimates that two million farmers have 
been displaced since NAFTA, in many cases related to the increase in 
U.S. imports. In 1994, the first year of the agreement, the United 
States exported $4.59 billion of agricultural products to Mexico, 
according to the Department of Agriculture. By 2006 the figure had 
risen to $9.85 billion -- an increase of 114%. U.S. exports of corn, 
Mexico's staple crop and largest source of rural employment, alone 
doubled to over $2.5 billion in 2006.

This combination of unemployment in Mexico, the huge gap between 
salaries in the United States and Mexico, and U.S. demand for cheap 
labor to compete on global markets has created the current situation. 
In other words, it's the international labor market that writes the 
addresses and stamps the envelopes.

The Mexican government didn't explicitly decide to send off these 
human missives to the United States. Despite the central place in the 
economy that remittances have gained over the years, no national 
policy aimed to export able-bodied citizens abroad. In fact, NAFTA 
was supposed to solve immigration problems and decrease the pressure 
to seek jobs in the United States.

The Mexican economy has, however, benefited from the predicament. 
Guillermo Ortiz, head of the central Bank of Mexico reported recently 
that 2006 remittances rose to an all-time high of $23.54 billion -- 
20% over the previous year.

As the second source of foreign income after oil revenues, 
remittances have been a main factor in reducing extreme poverty in 
the countryside. While the World Bank, among others, cites NAFTA and 
the Mexican government's poverty assistance programs for achieving 
that end, a 2005 report from the Bank of Mexico gives credit where 
credit's due-poor families receive more assistance from remittances 
than from all gover

Re: [Biofuel] Recent Moore Correspondence

[Keith Addison]

>Thank you, Keith.  What I'm going through is not very encouraging 
>for other folks who might want to write their representatives,

Not very surprising - if it were more encouraging, like if they gave 
half a damn, maybe things wouldn't have got this far in the first 
place.

>but I hope somehow folks will persist anyway, while they still have 
>a choice to do so.  I also want to extend my help to anyone in the 
>U.S. who understands the real meaning of Real ID  and wants 
>help working to get it rejected in their State and ultimately 
>repealed in Congress.

I'm sure networking is the key.

>You may write to me at: 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Mike DuPree  PS 
>Keith, sorry to be a doofus, but my "latin" sucks..."illegitimi non 
>carborundum"..."il" and "non," double negatives?  if so--legitimate 
>abbrasive?  if so...thank you.  What was that Canned Heat line, 
>"tired of gettin dogged around?"  These "representatives" need--at 
>least--some abbrasives.

Indeed they do. Dogged, yes, that's what you have to be.

> > Illegitimi non carborundum.

"Don't let the bastards grind you down." :-) Not exactly Latin.

Strength to yer arm Mike.

Regards

Keith


>- Original Message -
>From: "Keith Addison" 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
>Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:31 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Recent Moore Correspondence
>
> > Good on you Mike, keep at 'em!
> >
> > Illegitimi non carborundum.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hi folks...I'm sending along my most recent correspondence to my
> >>U.S. House Rep, Dennis Moore.  My State Senator (Francisco) and
> >>State House Rep (Davis) also dance around this language.  Why?
> >>Dennis voted against the original version of Real ID, HR418,
> >>apparently along party lines, which is interesting, considering the
> >>stereotyped values of the Republican (less gov't) and Democratic
> >>(more gov't) parties.  HR 418 was a stand alone bill, so you would
> >>think it would have been voted down in the House (by the Repubs,
> >>seeing more gov't), but it passed, as I've said, mostly along party
> >>lines.  Mike PS As a side note, if you ever decide to write your
> >>Reps using the email service that is part of their websites, copy
> >>your email to a Word doc before submitting if you want a copy,
> >>unless of course there is provision for you to receive a copy of
> >>what you send, which I suspect there usually is not.  Also, do same
> >>with any notes attached before forwarding to other email
> >>addresses.  The websites make no provision for screwing up and being
> >>able to back up to correct your mistake; you just simply lose
> >>whatever you were trying to send and to whomever you were trying to
> >>send it.  Surely all these hoops are because we are in the midst of
> >>basketball season, correct??? Otherwise, contacting our Reps is
> >>utterly user-friendly, correct Excuse me while I go puke.
> >>
> >>
> >>Dear Congressman Moore, Thank you for recent correspondence
> >>regarding PL109-13, the Real ID Act. From the beginning of my
> >>correspondence with your office expressing my concerns regarding
> >>Real ID, I have focused upon section 201(3), specifically the
> >>wording "any other purposes that the Secretary [of Homeland
> >>Security] shall determine." This language alone, I believe, is
> >>grounds for Repeal. And yet, your office, for some reason, will not
> >>address this issue. Why? The closest your office has come to
> >>addressing it, which is no address at all, is on page 2 of February
> >>15 correspondence, next to last paragraph. This paragraph merely
> >>reiterates what I already know reading PL109-13.
> >>
> >>So, to date, in answer to my concerns and questions regarding the
> >>open-ended provision of the "official purpose" of Real ID, I have
> >>received from your office: 1) the CRS Report to Congress:
> >>Immigration: Analysis of Major Provisions of the REAL ID Act of
> >>2005, which misses completely an analysis of THE major provision of
> >>Real ID--the open-ended provision of the official purpose; 2) a copy
> >>of S.4117 and present non-action regarding S.4117, which I did NOT
> >>request, as stated on the note attached to this copy; and 3) the
> >>correspondence of February 15, which is basically a restatement of
> >>PL109-13.
> >>
> >>Will your office please focus upon section 201(3) of P.L. 109-13 and
> >>either: 1) tell me what steps you are taking to either: a) revise
> >>this language to specific purposes; or b) strike the language
> >>completely (ie Repeal Real ID and help Senator Akaka understand that
> >>he has no business waiting for regulations to come from the
> >>Secretary of Homeland Security, that he should go ahead with his
> >>promotion of S.4117 if for no other reason than the open-ended
> >>provision of section 201[3]); OR 2) tell me how the wording of
> >>section 201(3)can not be open-ended and

[Biofuel] The Inconvenient Truth, Part II

[Keith Addison]

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4014
Foreign Policy In Focus |
The Inconvenient Truth, Part II

Tom Athanasiou | February 21, 2007

Editor: John Feffer, IRC


Foreign Policy In Focus
www.fpif.org

You've probably seen the movie; you've certainly heard about it. So 
you already know the first part of the inconvenient truth: we're in 
deep trouble. And one good thing about 2006 is that this ceased to be 
a public secret. We not only know that the drought is spreading, the 
ice melting, the waters beginning to rise, but we also know that we 
know. And this changes everything.

The science is in; the "skeptics" aren't what they used to be. 
They're still around, of course, but their ranks have thinned, and 
their funders are feeling the heat. They've been reduced to a merely 
tactical danger. They're flaks, and everyone knows it. Still, this 
good news comes with bad-their job was to stall, and they did it 
well. And it's now late in the game.

Don't just take my word for it. In 2006, scientists schooled in the 
art of careful and measured conclusion chose instead to speak 
frankly. James Hansen, director of NASA's Goddard Institute of Space 
Studies and perhaps our single most respected climate scientist, 
spoke for many of his colleagues when he said that we're "near a 
tipping point, a point of no return, beyond which the built in 
momentum and feedbacks will carry us to levels of climate change with 
staggering consequences for humanity and all of the residents of this 
planet."1

It's time, past time really, for at least some of us to go beyond 
warning to planning, to start talking seriously about a global crash 
program to stabilize the climate. Gore knows this, but he's a 
politician and must move deliberately. He is moving, though, and has 
already passed beyond his film's gentle implication (most visible in 
the upbeat visual call to action that ran under the closing credits) 
that personal virtue will suffice. During a September 2006 speech at 
the New York University Law School (a speech one wag called "the lost 
reel") he made some necessary, and dangerous, connections:

"In rising to meet this challenge, we too will find self-renewal and 
transcendence and a new capacity for vision to see other crises in 
our time that cry out for solutions: 20 million HIV/AIDS orphans in 
Africa alone, civil wars fought by children, genocides and famines, 
the rape and pillage of our oceans and forests, an extinction crisis 
that threatens the web of life, and tens of millions of our fellow 
humans dying every year from easily preventable diseases. And, by 
rising to meet the climate crisis, we will find the vision and moral 
authority to see them not as political problems but as moral 
imperatives."

The situation, alas, is worse than either Gore's movie or his speech 
implies. So, this being a new year, let's move on a bit, into 
territories through which no politician can guide us. And let's be a 
bit more explicit about just what a real crash program to stabilize 
the climate would actually imply.

Two Degrees of Separation

What happens if the temperature-or, more precisely, the average 
global surface warming since pre-industrial times-rises past 2°C?

Even though we're not yet at the edge of the 2°C line, the Earth's 
ice sheets are already becoming unstable. The Greenland ice sheet, in 
particular, appears to be at significant risk of collapse at a 
warming of less than 2°C, and this would eventually mean about seven 
meters of sea-level rise.2 Since only three meters would put 
virtually all coastal cities and their hundreds of millions of people 
at great hazard, and given that the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is also 
at eventual risk, the ice situation is already, by any reasonable 
standard, "dangerous."3

With 2°C of warming, killer droughts will settle in to stay. There 
will be massive vegetation changes, agricultural disruptions, and 
extreme weather including superstorms. Many disease-bearing pests 
will have radically expanded ranges that put, for example, several 
hundred million more people at risk of malaria. Arctic species such 
as the polar bear will face extinction, along with 15-40% of other 
terrestrial creatures. There will be horrifying refugee crises. The 
key points, at least from the point of view of human suffering and 
social instability, are the ice-melt, the widespread agricultural 
disruption, and the refugees. Also crucial are the billions of 
people, many of them in the mega-cities of the South, threatened by 
permanent water stress. There will be more, and more terrible, water 
wars, many of which are essentially civil wars.4

Most terrifying of all, 2°C of warming, particularly if sustained or 
overshot, will likely trigger non-linear changes that would induce 
further warming, and further changes, and further warming-"positive 
feedbacks" in the jargon-until the nightmare scenario imagined by 
James Lovelock (whom I am very sorry to report is not a crank) 
finally comes to pass.

[Biofuel] Global Warming: The Quick Fix Is In

[Keith Addison]

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4006
Foreign Policy In Focus |
Global Warming: The Quick Fix Is In

Pat Mooney | February 20, 2007

Editor: John Feffer, IRC


Foreign Policy In Focus
www.fpif.org

Hopes for the Kyoto Protocol are fading, and carbon trading is a 
farce. To arrest climate change, industrialized states can either 
"bite the bullet" and adopt socially responsible policies to 
dramatically cut fossil fuel use and useless consumption. Or they can 
hope for a "silver bullet"-some new techno-fix that might let them 
continue to pollute and avoid human extinction. The silver bullet may 
be winning.

At the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the U.S. 
government is lobbying for "geoengineering" activities such as 
deliberately polluting the stratosphere to deflect sunlight and lower 
temperatures. At least nine national governments and the European 
Union (EU) have supported experiments to spread iron filings on the 
ocean surface to nurture plankton and sequester carbon dioxide. At 
least a dozen additional countries are involved in the modification 
of stratospheric weather. Commercial carbon traders are engaging in 
ocean fertilization as well. This experimentation by governments and 
corporations is taking place in the absence of public discussion.

Global warming demonstrates that we have already geoengineered the 
earth's climate. However, the notion that we can successfully correct 
our unintentional destructiveness with intentional geoengineering 
seems far-fetched. For the governments who caused the problem to 
experiment together on geoengineering solutions is a grave 
miscalculation. To do so outside the UN and without the participation 
of the Global South, which bears the brunt of global warming and 
would likely bear the risks of geoengineering, is politically and 
ethically suspect.

A Brief History of Geoengineering

In 1975, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and Newsweek magazine 
joined forces to warn of "the Cooling World." It was the same year 
that British scientists confirmed a hole over the ozone layer above 
Antarctica. Also in 1975, the Soviet Union and the United States 
submitted identical draft treaties to the UN General Assembly 
prohibiting climate modification as a military weapon.1

Thirty years later, everybody-including the U.S. president-was 
talking about global warming. Scientists warned that the temperature 
rise on the Arctic ice cap and on Siberian permafrost could "tip" 
planet Earth into an environmental tailspin. And, the U.S. Congress 
agreed to study a bill that would establish a national weather 
modification research program.

"Let's quit the debate about whether greenhouse gases are caused by 
mankind or by natural causes," George W. Bush proposed in 2006. 
"Let's just focus on technologies that deal with the issue." One of 
the technological silver bullets the United States is currently 
investigating is most commonly known as geoengineering, which is the 
intentional and directed manipulation of the earth and its 
ecosystems. Geoengineering includes a wide range of schemes. Blasting 
particles of sulfur into the stratosphere is supposed to shield us 
from the sun's rays. Dumping iron particles in the oceans is supposed 
to nurture CO 2 -absorbing plankton. And blasting clouds with 
chemicals is supposed to nudge them into producing rain. University 
of Calgary physicist, David Keith, refers to geoengineering as "an 
expedient solution that uses additional technology to counteract 
unwanted effects without eliminating their root cause."2

The notion of a technological fix for global warming isn't new. In 
the 1940s, Bernard Vonnegut-a well-respected meteorologist and Kurt 
Vonnegut's brother-discovered that silver iodide smoke could cause 
clouds to give up their rain.3 His discovery kick-started serious 
government efforts to manipulate the environment. Until then, 
cloud-seeding had been the preserve of crackpots and con artists. By 
1951, however, 10% of the United States was under clouds that had 
been commercially seeded.4

Governments and industry have a sometimes-ignoble history tampering 
with the weather. The CIA's top-secret "Project Popeye" rainmaking 
campaign, which began in 1966, ran for seven years and conducted 
2,300 cloud seeding missions over the Ho Chi Minh Trail during the 
Vietnam War.5 The goal was to make the trail impassible and, as a 
bonus, to drown out North Vietnam's rice crop. While rains did 
increase, the Air Force couldn't establish a clear link to its covert 
campaign.

Recently, more convincing experiments have focused on " hygroscopic 
cloud seeding "-that is, warm-cloud seeding, as opposed to cold-cloud 
seeding (glaciogenic). Results from experiments at the South African 
National Precipitation and Rainfall Enhancement Programme earned 
researchers there the United Arab Emirates' 2005 Prize for Excellence 
in Advancing the Science and Practice of Weather Modification. Other 
warm-cloud seeding projects 

Re: [Biofuel] Global warming: enough to make you sick

[Keith Addison]

Hi Zeke

>The "but we did not expect this to happen so soon" argument could be 
>reworded as "I thought that I could avoid dealing with this problem 
>I've caused, and didn't really care that my children and 
>grandchildren would be screwed"   Not a very strong argument, it 
>seems to me.

No, but that probably doesn't stop people using it anyway.

But I didn't mean it as an argument, it's what the climate scientists 
keep saying in reporting the signs, the pace of change keeps 
exceeding their predictions, whether it's glaciers receding or ice 
shelves melting or whatever.

Or the onset of spring - two months early! And the winter was so mild 
the soil didn't even get a chance to freeze, so stuff just went on 
growing, if slowly. We're certainly pleased about that, very relieved 
we didn't have another rough winter like last time, so our three 
poultry flocks, new pastures, new growing beds and new farming system 
survived. But chickens are sitting on clutches of eggs already, both 
the geese and the Muscovies are laying eggs and making nests and so 
on, and it looks like we're going to have swarms of young birds to 
feed and to house two months earlier than we were bargaining for, 
somewhat dismaying. Indeed we did not expect this to happen so soon. 
Damn.

Best

Keith


>Z
>
>On 2/25/07, Keith Addison 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>wrote:
>
>A statement you keep seeing in stories about global warming:
>
> >"But we did not expect this to happen so soon," he said.
>
>-
>
>ull.story>http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-disease25feb25,0, 
>948803,full.story
>Los Angeles Times
>
>Global warming: enough to make you sick
>
>Rising temperatures are redistributing bacteria, insects and plants,
>exposing people to diseases they'd never encountered before.
>
>By Jia-Rui Chong, Times Staff Writer
>February 25, 2007
>
>CORDOVA, ALASKA - Oysterman Jim Aguiar had never had to deal with the
>bacterium Vibrio parahaemolyticus in his 25 years working the frigid
>waters of Prince William Sound.
>
>The dangerous microbe infected seafood in warmer waters, like the
>Gulf of Mexico. Alaska was way too cold.
>
>But the sound was gradually warming. By summer 2004, the temperature
>had risen just enough to poke above the crucial 59-degree mark.
>Cruise ship passengers who had eaten local oysters were soon coming
>down with diarrhea, cramping and vomiting - the first cases of Vibrio
>food poisoning in Alaska that anyone could remember.
>
>"We were slapped from left field," said Aguiar, who shut down his
>oyster farm that year along with a few others.
>
>As scientists later determined, the culprit was not just the
>bacterium, but the warming that allowed it to proliferate.
>
>"This was probably the best example to date of how global climate
>change is changing the importation of infectious diseases," said Dr.
>Joe McLaughlin, acting chief of epidemiology at the Alaska Division
>of Public Health, who published a study on the outbreak.
>
>The spread of human disease has become one of the most worrisome
>subplots in the story of global warming. Incremental temperature
>changes have begun to redraw the distribution of bacteria, insects
>and plants, exposing new populations to diseases that they have never
>seen before.
>
>A report from the World Health Organization estimated that in 2000
>about 154,000 deaths around the world could be attributed to disease
>outbreaks and other conditions sparked by climate change.
>
>The temperature change has been small, about 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit
>over the last 150 years, but it has been enough to alter disease
>patterns across the globe.
>
>In Sweden, fewer winter days below 10 degrees and more summer days
>above 50 degrees have encouraged the northward movement of ticks,
>which has coincided with an increase in cases of tick-borne
>encephalitis since the 1980s.
>
>Researchers have found that poison ivy has grown more potent and lush
>because of increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
>
>In Africa, mosquitoes have been slowly inching up the slopes around
>Mt. Kenya, bringing malaria to high villages that had never been
>exposed before.
>
>"It's going to get very warm," said Andrew Githeko, a vector
>biologist who heads the Climate and Human Health Research Unit at the
>Kenya Medical Research Institute in Kisumu. "That's going to mean a
>huge difference to malaria."
>
>Githeko, 49, grew up in the central highlands in a tiny village near
>the town of Karatina, about 5,700 feet above sea level.
>
>His home was different from most of Africa. The air was damp and
>chilly. On clear days, he could see the glaciers on Mt. Kenya, the
>second-highest peak in Africa at 17,058 feet.
>
>When he was a child, lowland diseases like malaria were unknown in
>Karatina. But perhaps 10 years ago, a smattering of cases began to
>appear.
>
>He had long ago left his home to study the great plagues of Africa -
>Rift V

Re: [Biofuel] LED light bulbs

[Chip Mefford]

Kirk McLoren wrote:
> http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/index.aspx
>
>   Some nifty lights.
>   Dont think I agree with the economic analysis near bottom of page though.
>
>   Kirk
> 

Do you actually *have* any of ccrane's led lightbulb replacements?

I purchased a couple dozen led 'replacement' lightbulb assemblies
that have the same physical appearance to those shown in the ccrane
catalog, and found them to be sub-par (heh heh)

They certainly do work, but for illumination, they just don't
come close to a cf lamp, though the draw really is minimal, almost
lower than the ground leakage you'll get in any older house.

I use a couple of the par style as stair well lights, because
it's 'enough' but the light-bulb replacements I had just don't work
very well. Low light output, and while the leds themselves probably
last as long as they should, I had 3 out of 10 fail in under
3000 hours.

I'm not speaking of ccrane's lamps, these are lamps I sourced
directly from HK, by the dozen.

As for CCrane in general. I've found them to be a really good
outfit. Yeah, they are a bit spendy, you can usually souce
their goods elsewhere. however they themselves have an approach
towards customer service that I find very very rare these days.
They get personally involved, and I just can't speak highly
enough of them. They are genuinely interested in the gizmos
they sell, and are always interested in your feedback on their
stuff. and very open to ideas, and implementations.

I could on and on about that last bit.




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Re: [Biofuel] Truth or Propaganda?

[Chip Mefford]

Keith Addison wrote:
> Hello Robert
> 
>> Keith Addison wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Robert
>>>

Really excellent stuff snipped,

I just wanted to make an apparently obvious
observation that I've come to over my short
half-a-century;

"There is no us and them,
There is only us, and we're all we have,
quod erat demonstrandum"




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Re: [Biofuel] Recent Moore Correspondence

[M&K DuPree]

Thank you, Keith.  What I'm going through is not very encouraging for other 
folks who might want to write their representatives, but I hope somehow folks 
will persist anyway, while they still have a choice to do so.  I also want to 
extend my help to anyone in the U.S. who understands the real meaning of Real 
ID  and wants help working to get it rejected in their State and ultimately 
repealed in Congress.  You may write to me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Mike DuPree  
PS Keith, sorry to be a doofus, but my "latin" sucks..."illegitimi non 
carborundum"..."il" and "non," double negatives?  if so--legitimate abbrasive?  
if so...thank you.  What was that Canned Heat line, "tired of gettin dogged 
around?"  These "representatives" need--at least--some abbrasives.  

- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Recent Moore Correspondence


> Good on you Mike, keep at 'em!
> 
> Illegitimi non carborundum.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
>>Hi folks...I'm sending along my most recent correspondence to my 
>>U.S. House Rep, Dennis Moore.  My State Senator (Francisco) and 
>>State House Rep (Davis) also dance around this language.  Why? 
>>Dennis voted against the original version of Real ID, HR418, 
>>apparently along party lines, which is interesting, considering the 
>>stereotyped values of the Republican (less gov't) and Democratic 
>>(more gov't) parties.  HR 418 was a stand alone bill, so you would 
>>think it would have been voted down in the House (by the Repubs, 
>>seeing more gov't), but it passed, as I've said, mostly along party 
>>lines.  Mike PS As a side note, if you ever decide to write your 
>>Reps using the email service that is part of their websites, copy 
>>your email to a Word doc before submitting if you want a copy, 
>>unless of course there is provision for you to receive a copy of 
>>what you send, which I suspect there usually is not.  Also, do same 
>>with any notes attached before forwarding to other email 
>>addresses.  The websites make no provision for screwing up and being 
>>able to back up to correct your mistake; you just simply lose 
>>whatever you were trying to send and to whomever you were trying to 
>>send it.  Surely all these hoops are because we are in the midst of 
>>basketball season, correct??? Otherwise, contacting our Reps is 
>>utterly user-friendly, correct Excuse me while I go puke.
>>
>>
>>Dear Congressman Moore, Thank you for recent correspondence 
>>regarding PL109-13, the Real ID Act. From the beginning of my 
>>correspondence with your office expressing my concerns regarding 
>>Real ID, I have focused upon section 201(3), specifically the 
>>wording "any other purposes that the Secretary [of Homeland 
>>Security] shall determine." This language alone, I believe, is 
>>grounds for Repeal. And yet, your office, for some reason, will not 
>>address this issue. Why? The closest your office has come to 
>>addressing it, which is no address at all, is on page 2 of February 
>>15 correspondence, next to last paragraph. This paragraph merely 
>>reiterates what I already know reading PL109-13.
>>
>>So, to date, in answer to my concerns and questions regarding the 
>>open-ended provision of the "official purpose" of Real ID, I have 
>>received from your office: 1) the CRS Report to Congress: 
>>Immigration: Analysis of Major Provisions of the REAL ID Act of 
>>2005, which misses completely an analysis of THE major provision of 
>>Real ID--the open-ended provision of the official purpose; 2) a copy 
>>of S.4117 and present non-action regarding S.4117, which I did NOT 
>>request, as stated on the note attached to this copy; and 3) the 
>>correspondence of February 15, which is basically a restatement of 
>>PL109-13.
>>
>>Will your office please focus upon section 201(3) of P.L. 109-13 and 
>>either: 1) tell me what steps you are taking to either: a) revise 
>>this language to specific purposes; or b) strike the language 
>>completely (ie Repeal Real ID and help Senator Akaka understand that 
>>he has no business waiting for regulations to come from the 
>>Secretary of Homeland Security, that he should go ahead with his 
>>promotion of S.4117 if for no other reason than the open-ended 
>>provision of section 201[3]); OR 2) tell me how the wording of 
>>section 201(3)can not be open-ended and why I have no need to be 
>>concerned?
> 
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change: oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20

[A. Lawrence]

My apologies Mike, I do indeed remember that there was a time when one
government employee actually did their job - and did it very well... I was
looking for some information, and of all the many contacts that I made, one
stood out as "above and beyond"...  the others just offered standard lip
service... so, I stand corrected... there are *some* that care, do their
job, and get results - I was fortunate to run across one... Al



> Not quite true, deep, deep inside all those ugly gray buildings are the
> 30% of gov't employees who do care and actually do 90% of the work.
> the final 10% is done by the other 70%.
>
> Been there, done that.
>
> A. Lawrence wrote:
>
> >Only one problem with the statement below...
> >
> > Government and Work don't belong in the same sentence - it's a
> >contradiction of terms...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>All joking aside, I find Canadian politics very strange.  I like
> >>your country, but I don't really GET how your government works.
> >>
> >>robert luis rabello
> >>"The Edge of Justice"
> >>"The Long Journey"
> >>New Adventure for Your Mind
> >>http://www.newadventure.ca
> >>
> >>Ranger Supercharger Project Page
> >>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
> >>
> >>
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>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >messages):
> >
> >
> >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Clever notion - I wonder if this woujld work viz. grid intertie? Zeke?

[Chip Mefford]

Mike Weaver wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 February 2007 04:29, John Bertl wrote:
> 
>>> Here we have formed a group that is building a gasifier to power a
>>> genset mounted on a trailer.  The trailer will be moved from house
>>> to house where it will build up several months of credits at each
>>> location.  Everyone's electric bill will become $7.23 which is the
>>> charge for the meter each month and is the minimum charge.  At 15
>>> cents per kW-hr produced value, we expect a quick pay back and
>>> will then build another.
>>  
>>
> 
> Good enterprising lateral thinking and probably the reason net 
> metering will not be available in UK, or anywhere where the uptake 
> may be significant.

Haven't seen a net metering program that considered gensets 'renewable'

I've read a few of them, while helping to get net metering rules on
the books here in WV.


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[Biofuel] Diesel drag racing

[Dawie Coetzee]

I don't know if this has been posted before:

http://www.cumminsracing.com/

-D



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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Fake Drug, Fake Illness & People believe it!

[Fred Oliff]

and in most cases those same problems can be solved with nothing more than making those changes, lifestyle, activity, diet.  better living NOT with chemistry. give me the placebo.




From:  "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:  biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:  Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Fake Drug, Fake Illness & People believe it!Date:  Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:24:58 -0700
Well, my opinion is that most pharmaceuticals are a haox, in that they purport to solve some complex socio-physiological problem with nothing more than a little pill - no changes in lifestyle, activity, diet, social interactions, etc, required. 
Z
On 2/27/07, Doug Younker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Havidol cute, but I doubt most people see "have it all", until afterthey learn it's a hoax.Doug, N0LKKKansas USA inc.___Biofuel mailing list
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Re: [Biofuel] Clever notion - I wonder if this woujld work viz. grid intertie? Zeke?

[Zeke Yewdall]

Well generally net metering, when available,  is only required for
renewable sources -- and sometimes only solar, not even wind or microhydro.
It would depend on whether they defined a gassifier as renewable.   Seems
like it could be.   However, the power generation profile isn't as useful as
solar in meeting peak demand, compared to total kWh, and the distributed
generation benefits are questionable, given that you don't know exactly
where the generator would be.  Also, you'd need net metering with monthly
carry forward of excess -- which most places have, but not all.

Also, in order to interconnect with the utility, you have to meet pretty
strict standards -- a generator wouldn't qualify.  For something in the
under 50kW size range, you'd probably have to generate it as DC, and use a
standard PV/wind inverter that has already met UL1741 requirements, as the
other options to meet relaying and anti-islanding requirements would be
rediculously expensive.  And at least here, they require an electrical
inspection before they'll allow you to turn on an interconnected PV
system  does the generator have to be inspected at each house that's
going to use it?

Lots of questions to be answered.

On 2/27/07, Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Tuesday 27 February 2007 04:29, John Bertl wrote:

>> Here we have formed a group that is building a gasifier to power a
>> genset mounted on a trailer.  The trailer will be moved from house
>> to house where it will build up several months of credits at each
>> location.  Everyone's electric bill will become $7.23 which is the
>> charge for the meter each month and is the minimum charge.  At 15
>> cents per kW-hr produced value, we expect a quick pay back and
>> will then build another.
>
>

Good enterprising lateral thinking and probably the reason net
metering will not be available in UK, or anywhere where the uptake
may be significant.


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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Fake Drug, Fake Illness & People believe it!

[Zeke Yewdall]

Well, my opinion is that most pharmaceuticals are a haox, in that they
purport to solve some complex socio-physiological problem with nothing more
than a little pill - no changes in lifestyle, activity, diet, social
interactions, etc, required.

Z

On 2/27/07, Doug Younker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Havidol cute, but I doubt most people see "have it all", until after
they learn it's a hoax.
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA inc.

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[Biofuel] Simple Negative Ion Generator Schematics

[AltEnergyNetwork]

Simple Negative Ion Generator Schematics

http://www.alternate-energy.net/neg_ion_gen05.html












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Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change: oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20

[Mike Weaver]

Not quite true, deep, deep inside all those ugly gray buildings are the 
30% of gov't employees who do care and actually do 90% of the work.
the final 10% is done by the other 70%.

Been there, done that.

A. Lawrence wrote:

>Only one problem with the statement below...
>
> Government and Work don't belong in the same sentence - it's a
>contradiction of terms...
>
>
>
>  
>
>>All joking aside, I find Canadian politics very strange.  I like
>>your country, but I don't really GET how your government works.
>>
>>robert luis rabello
>>"The Edge of Justice"
>>"The Long Journey"
>>New Adventure for Your Mind
>>http://www.newadventure.ca
>>
>>Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>>
>>
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>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>>
>>
>messages):
>  
>
>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>  
>


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[Biofuel] Clever notion - I wonder if this woujld work viz. grid intertie? Zeke?

[Mike Weaver]

On Tuesday 27 February 2007 04:29, John Bertl wrote:

>> Here we have formed a group that is building a gasifier to power a
>> genset mounted on a trailer.  The trailer will be moved from house
>> to house where it will build up several months of credits at each
>> location.  Everyone's electric bill will become $7.23 which is the
>> charge for the meter each month and is the minimum charge.  At 15
>> cents per kW-hr produced value, we expect a quick pay back and
>> will then build another.
>  
>

Good enterprising lateral thinking and probably the reason net 
metering will not be available in UK, or anywhere where the uptake 
may be significant.


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[Biofuel] WHO Board Urged to Act on Worrying Smallpox Research Trends

[Keith Addison]

Why is the US refusing to consider fixing a destruction date for the 
remaining stocks of the smallpox virus?

This'll help you sleep peacefully at night:

> "Firstly, Sandia National Laboratories, part of the US Department 
>of Energy, has initiated experiments with variola virus genes 
>engineered into other organisms. Sandia did not obtain the smallpox 
>genes from a WHO-authorized repository. Instead, they were 
>synthesized by a company and then used by Sandia in at least four 
>experiments. As Sandia's mission includes the design and testing of 
>Weapons of Mass Destruction for the US armed forces, it is unclear 
>if and how the research with variola virus genes was construed to be 
>within the public health bounds established by the relevant WHA 
>Resolutions."

:-(

See also:
http://www.smallpoxbiosafety.org/
HOME OF THE CAMPAIGN FOR THE FINAL ERADICATION OF SMALLPOX VIRUS

http://www.smallpoxbiosafety.org/SUNS310107.html
Smallpoxbiosafety.org News: 22 January 2007
Wednesday 31 January 2007
WHO Board adopts draft smallpox resolution

Best

Keith

--

http://www.oaklandinstitute.org/?q=node/view/408

WHO Board Urged to Act on Worrying Smallpox Research Trends

The issue of destruction of smallpox virus stocks has been heatedly 
discussed at the World Health Assembly (WHA) for several years, 
particularly following recommendations from a WHO advisory committee 
in 2004 to greatly expand dangerous smallpox research, including 
genetic engineering experiments.

The 2006 WHA was unable to agree upon the text of a resolution on 
destruction of variola virus stocks, which are held in WHO authorized 
repositories in the US and Russia. Many developing countries, led by 
Africa, sought a resolution that established a destruction date for 
the virus (in June 2010), a prohibition on genetic engineering, 
annual substantive WHA review of virus research, and strengthened WHO 
oversight. The US refusal to consider fixing a new destruction date 
was problematic, and developing county offers of a compromise were 
also rejected. As a result, the WHO Executive Board is considering 
the draft resolution as it meets from 22-30 January 2007. NGOs are 
urging the Board to produce a strong resolution, given increasing 
indications that the US is expanding or intending to expand research 
with the smallpox virus and with smallpox genes.

The Oakland Institute's Senior Fellow Lim Li Ching reports...

Kuala Lumpur -- The WHO Executive Board, meeting in Geneva from 
January 22-30, 2007, has been urged by NGOs to produce a strong 
resolution on smallpox (variola), including fixing a new date for the 
destruction of existing stocks, banning genetic engineering 
experiments, and strengthening WHO control over variola research.

This is in light of increasing indications that the United States is 
expanding or intending to expand research with the smallpox virus and 
with variola genes, including the synthesis and use of variola virus 
genes outside of WHO-authorized repositories.

There are three worrying trends that should lead to strong action by 
the WHO Board, say two NGOs following the smallpox issue, the 
US-based Sunshine Project and the Malaysia-based Third World Network:

* A laboratory linked to the US government and whose work includes 
designing weapons of mass destruction for the US army has initiated 
experiments with variola virus genes engineered into other organisms, 
using smallpox genes that are not from a WHO-authorized repository, 
but synthesized by a company.

* A US government biosecurity committee has proposed that domestic US 
legal restrictions on possession of variola virus be repealed, which 
would effectively allow possession of the virus.

* The WHO advisory committee overseeing the remaining stocks of 
smallpox virus and research using it seems to be backpedaling on some 
of its previous decisions. Prompted by disagreement over if and how 
the WHO should control synthesized variola genes, it is also 
reviewing the rules restricting the distribution of smallpox DNA and 
the type of research allowed. Critics fear that, given the 
committee's previous attempt to weaken these rules, this could be a 
dangerous move.

The WHO Executive Board is meeting on 22-30 January in Geneva and 
will consider a draft resolution on smallpox, which was deferred from 
the 59th World Health Assembly (WHA) in May 2006. Then, the WHA was 
unable to agree on the text of a resolution on destruction of variola 
virus stocks, which are held in WHO-authorized repositories in the US 
and Russia.

Many developing countries, led by Africa, had sought a resolution to 
establish a new destruction date (June 2010) for the virus, a 
prohibition on genetic engineering, annual substantive WHA review of 
virus research, and strengthened WHO oversight. Despite lengthy 
discussions, agreement was not reached at the WHA. The US refused to 
consider fixing a new destruction date, and developing-country offers 
of a compromise were also

Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change

[Keith Addison]

Why are you all trying to get poor Robert killed?

"If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the 
United States in a few days.  Permanently.  I would first apologize 
-- very publicly and very sincerely -- to all the widows and the 
orphans, the impoverished and the tortured, and all the many millions 
of other victims of American imperialism.  I would then announce that 
America's global interventions -- including the awful bombings -- 
have come to an end.  And I would inform Israel that it is no longer 
the 51st state of the union but -- oddly enough -- a foreign country. 
I would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the 
savings to pay reparations to the victims and repair the damage from 
the many American bombings and invasions.  There would be more than 
enough money.  Do you know what one year of the US military budget is 
equal to?  One year.  It's equal to more than $20,000 per hour for 
every hour since Jesus Christ was born. That's what I'd do on my 
first three days in the White House.  On the fourth day, I'd be 
assassinated." -- Bill Blum

Best

Keith



>- Original Message -
>From: "robert and benita rabello" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 2:17 PM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change:oil
>executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20
>
>
> > Randall wrote:
> >
> >>Robert,
> >>
> >>Unless I am just missing something basic...if you are over 35 years old, a
> >>natural born citizen of the US, and have lived in the US for 14 years, you
> >>are qualified.  I don't read anywhere that it says that you have to be a
> >>resident for the last 14 years prior to running for election.  Plus, don't
> >>forget...there are other national offices.  :-)
> >>
> >>--Randall
> >>
> >>US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
> >>
> >>No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United
> >>States,
> >>at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the
> >>office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office
> >>who
> >>shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen
> >>years a resident within the United States.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Ok, I looked at my copy of the Constitution and you're right.  I'd
> > read the 14 years' residency requirement to mean 14 years immediately
> > prior to running for office.  Vote for me!!!
> >
> >Although, I don't really WANT the job . . .
> >
> > robert luis rabello
> > "The Edge of Justice"
> > "The Long Journey"
> > New Adventure for Your Mind
> > http://www.newadventure.ca
> >
> > Ranger Supercharger Project Page
> > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Fake Drug, Fake Illness & People believe it!

[Doug Younker]

Havidol cute, but I doubt most people see "have it all", until after 
they learn it's a hoax.
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA inc.

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Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change: oilexecutive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20

[Doug Younker]

My guess is,  a want to be President, wouldn't select an ineligible 
running  mate.  In the event he where to do so and was elected and died, 
the VP would have to step aside for the Speaker of the House At this 
time there are two persons in the presidential line of succession who 
appear to be ineligible to serve as President of the USA.  The 
Constitution doesn't address any presidential line of succession, it 
exists  by an act of Congress.  Surely it will be the Supreme Court who 
really decides.
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA inc.

Jason& Katie wrote:
> yknow, if someone not born in ameri-co. were to be VP, and the prez died or 
> quit, how would they handle that?

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