[Biofuel] Potassium Methylate

[DK & G Morrissey]

Hi guys.

I have heard that there is now a liquid catalyst available called Potassium
Methylate. Does anyone know a recipe that uses this stuff and how to
calculate volumes from titration.

Regards Dom

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Re: [Biofuel] concerns over Nova Scotia and Biofuel

[Bernard]

I just got a couple of loads of chips from one of the local arborists 
that clean up the roadsides of overhanging branches and yard wastes. 
Their truck is small, probably 4 to 5 cubic meters, the chips, regular, 
not especially small, and the temperature went up immediately to 57 
degrees c , measured with a  digital thermometer at about one foot 
inside the pile. The temp went down as the pile dried up,which I noticed 
as I was using it as mulch in my garden, so I figure that you'd have to 
keep it wet, as Jean Pain recommends.  I was impressed at how hot it 
got. I'm also planning to try this out to heat my house eventually. Not 
ready yet... Good luck with your project.
Bernard
Fritz Friesinger wrote:
> Hi Keith,
> thanks fore your reply!
> The concerns about chopped wood i appreciate fully!
> My woodshop was located for more than ten years in Montreal.There i had a 
> dustcollector (for shavings),a towerlike silo,with a big (7'x7'x7') 
> Industrial Wastebin.
> The rip was filled from the Tower two times a week into the bin.Naturally 
> some of the woodshavings fell allways aside.
> So from time to time i had to clean up the mess around and i noticed there 
> was allwas beautiful black compost earth under the toplayer of the shavings!
> For a long periode i did not pay any attention to this,but now i know that i 
> created there the very best compost environment.My shavings had been only 
> from very dry wood,not more than 8% of residual humidity,since the wood was 
> for interior furnitures and millwork!
> Now  i count on the physical laws not to let me down and produce in my 
> compostpile the heat,Jean Pain describes in his experiment!
> I am fully aware,that the keyrequirement is a very fine chipping of the 
> material!
> The methanedigester wont be any issue in this pilotproject,my goal is only 
> the creation of enough heat for Floorheating and warm watersuply!
> For the Floorheating,it wil be done with antifreeze in a closed circuit.
> The hotwater with separate piping connected to the elecric hotwatertank and 
> circulated to preheat the water going in to the electrictank instead of 
> filling the hotwatertank with coldwater!
> In my mind i think if geothermal heating can du the job,biothermal creates 
> more heat,it only has to be harnessed!
> I also keep in mind thaqt heystocks caqn devellop great heat,to the point the 
> may ignite them self!
> What concerns the Jean Pain method,i can not understand why this idea was 
> never given more consideration,but in ligth of the general energie policies 
> nothing surprises me anymore!
> Thanks for your attention
> Fritz
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[Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

A while back I saw some video clips on U tube about a car developed in Europe, 
Italy or France I believe that runs on compressed air.  It had some huge 
special carbon fiber tanks underneath the car that were used to hold compressed 
air at 3000 p.s.i.  The inventer claimed it could be filled with air overnight 
at the cost of aprox. $3 in electricity and the range was  about 200 
Kilometers.  Indias largest car manufacturer was supposed to actually start 
building this in 2009 or 2010.

Anybody know the real story on this?  Thanks, Ray


Click for  FHA loan, $0 lender fees, low rates & approvals nationwide
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Re: [Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?

[Keith Addison]

Hello Ray, welcome

>A while back I saw some video clips on U tube about a car developed 
>in Europe, Italy or France I believe that runs on compressed air. 
>It had some huge special carbon fiber tanks underneath the car that 
>were used to hold compressed air at 3000 p.s.i.  The inventer 
>claimed it could be filled with air overnight at the cost of aprox. 
>$3 in electricity and the range was  about 200 Kilometers.  Indias 
>largest car manufacturer was supposed to actually start building 
>this in 2009 or 2010.
>
>Anybody know the real story on this?  Thanks, Ray

The list archives probably knows something about it - search for "air 
car" (including the quotes):
165
 
matches

The whole message thread is linked at the end of each page.

You should learn how to use the list archives, it's a treasure trove.



Best

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] concerns over Nova Scotia and Biofuel

[Keith Addison]

Hi Bernard

Thanks for this, nice to know.

>I just got a couple of loads of chips from one of the local 
>arborists that clean up the roadsides of overhanging branches and 
>yard wastes.

So that would be all sorts of wood, good example.

>Their truck is small, probably 4 to 5 cubic meters,

About two tonnes?

>the chips, regular, not especially small, and the temperature went 
>up immediately to 57 degrees c , measured with a  digital 
>thermometer at about one foot inside the pile.

That's well into the thermophilic range, though it could be higher. 
Our approx. 1 cub metre compost boxes get to 75 deg C, then it stays 
at 65+ for quite a long time, the same for bigger piles of 2 or 3 
cubic metres. But we're making compost, we want the compost 
production, not the heat itself, so "quite a long time" might be two 
weeks. There are four of them though, in series, so there's nearly 
always high heat available.

On the other hand, a compost pile won't catch fire, but I suppose a 
wood chip pile might do (like hay fires, as Fritz said), depending on 
the chips, so lower (but thermophilic) temperatures might be prudent.

Also you might be able to maintain the heat longer at a lower temp of 57.

Sprinklings of ground limestone (or oyster shell), or of wood ash, 
might help the general process, as well as sprinklings of soil if you 
have it.

Maye Bruce's QR herbal starter might also help.

Common-Sense Compost Making -- by the Quick Return Method


How to use Q.R. Compost Activator


>The temp went down as the pile dried up,which I noticed as I was 
>using it as mulch in my garden, so I figure that you'd have to keep 
>it wet, as Jean Pain recommends.

As all composters recommend.

It's quite easy with woodchips though, because there's not much 
danger of adding too much water so it gets sodden and goes anaerobic, 
disaster. Excess water should just run through and out the bottom.

We had a pile of about 1 cub metre of wood chips (about 2cm), for 
mulch, we didn't want it to get too hot because the bulk would 
shrink, rather do that on the growing beds, and we didn't want it to 
dry out either. It wasn't possible to overwater it, so we kept 
drenching it, which damped the heat down but it didn't get soggy.

Still, I guess it depends on the chips, careful not to overdo it.

Once you've figured the moisture aspect I'd be interested to know how 
long it maintains the heat.

It would be great to have a good how-to on getting Jean Pain's method 
to work reliably, especially in an integrated set-up (food and fuel), 
on a small mixed organic farm with a woodlot or something. What 
works, and what doesn't?

With the current level of information available, there's a high 
outlay in sheer effort and too much that's in doubt and might not 
work. A little like the bad old days of biodiesel (all we had to go 
on when we made our first batch was 13 paragraphs we found on the 
Web).

Harvesting the heat is one aspect, but you can do that from just 
about any composting set-up, and these big Jean Pain piles are more 
work - is it a worthwhile return on the effort?

Maybe so, if doing it once lasts a long time, like maybe a year, or 
half a year.

But useful biogas co-production, as well as the heat, as well as the 
compost product itself, would help to tip the balance.

I think my previous post about David House's cautions on what you can 
do with the expected methane production rate of the Jean Pain system 
are to be taken seriously. He wrote "The Complete Biogas Handbook" 30 
years ago, it's still in print, and it's still probably the closest 
you'll get to a biogas bible.

You can download the original version free of charge from Alex Weir's 
amazing CD3WD 3rd World online library:

Biogas Handbook (28.5Mb pdf)
http://www.fastonline.org/CD3WD_40/JF/432/24-568.pdf

Thanks again

Best

Keith

>I was impressed at how hot it got. I'm also planning to try this out 
>to heat my house eventually. Not ready yet... Good luck with your 
>project.
>Bernard
>Fritz Friesinger wrote:
>>Hi Keith,
>>thanks fore your reply!
>>The concerns about chopped wood i appreciate fully!
>>My woodshop was located for more than ten years in Montreal.There i 
>>had a dustcollector (for shavings),a towerlike silo,with a big 
>>(7'x7'x7') Industrial Wastebin.
>>The rip was filled from the Tower two times a week into the 
>>bin.Naturally some of the woodshavings fell allways aside.
>>So from time to time i had to clean up the mess around and i 
>>noticed there was allwas beautiful black compost earth under the 
>>toplayer of the shavings!
>>For a long periode i did not pay any attention to this,but now i 
>>know that i created there the very best compost environment.My 
>>shavings had been only from very dry wood,not more than 8% of 
>>residual humidity,since the wood was for interior furnitures and 
>>millwork!
>>Now  i count on the physical laws not 

Re: [Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?

[zoeb_k]

It is real... I am from Tata Motors.

The company is working with a company from France.

 But the production dates not yet declared...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Keith Addison
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:42 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?

Hello Ray, welcome

>A while back I saw some video clips on U tube about a car developed 
>in Europe, Italy or France I believe that runs on compressed air. 
>It had some huge special carbon fiber tanks underneath the car that 
>were used to hold compressed air at 3000 p.s.i.  The inventer 
>claimed it could be filled with air overnight at the cost of aprox. 
>$3 in electricity and the range was  about 200 Kilometers.  Indias 
>largest car manufacturer was supposed to actually start building 
>this in 2009 or 2010.
>
>Anybody know the real story on this?  Thanks, Ray

The list archives probably knows something about it - search for "air 
car" (including the quotes):
165 
matches

The whole message thread is linked at the end of each page.

You should learn how to use the list archives, it's a treasure trove.



Best

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?

[zoeb_k]

urneytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 

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Re: [Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?

[Keith Addison]

>It is real... I am from Tata Motors.
>
>The company is working with a company from France.
>
>  But the production dates not yet declared...

Thanks - but we've been hearing that for 8 years now, again and again:


It's real but no production date yet. We hear that about a lot of 
things. If you can't get a clear answer to the question "Where can I 
buy one?" then don't bank on anything (but don't necessarily lose 
hope either).

What's the obstacle(s) to production?

Are there any Air Cars actually on the road, working as claimed?

Best

Keith

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>Of Keith Addison
>Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:42 PM
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?
>
>Hello Ray, welcome
>
>>A while back I saw some video clips on U tube about a car developed
>>in Europe, Italy or France I believe that runs on compressed air.
>>It had some huge special carbon fiber tanks underneath the car that
>>were used to hold compressed air at 3000 p.s.i.  The inventer
>>claimed it could be filled with air overnight at the cost of aprox.
>>$3 in electricity and the range was  about 200 Kilometers.  Indias
>>largest car manufacturer was supposed to actually start building
>>this in 2009 or 2010.
>>
>>Anybody know the real story on this?  Thanks, Ray
>
>The list archives probably knows something about it - search for "air
>car" (including the quotes):
>lelists.org&q=%22air+car%22>165
>matches
>
>The whole message thread is linked at the end of each page.
>
>You should learn how to use the list archives, it's a treasure trove.
>
>/>
>
>Best
>
>Keith


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[Biofuel] composting Woodchips/sawdust

[teamfriesinger]

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Re: [Biofuel] Potassium Methylate

[fox mulder]

You make a solution of potassium methanoate, when you
dissolve potassium in methanol. Solution is in a
liquid form. how to make it, go to journeyforever
website.
fox
--- DK & G Morrissey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi guys.
> 
> I have heard that there is now a liquid catalyst
> available called Potassium
> Methylate. Does anyone know a recipe that uses this
> stuff and how to
> calculate volumes from titration.
> 
> Regards Dom
> 
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> archives (70,000 messages):
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> 


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[Biofuel] Online book collections

[Keith Addison]

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html
Small Farms Library

VITA -- Volunteers in Technical Assistance -- 160 VITA publications, 
full-text free online:
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homesteaders, small farms and tropical development, full-text free 
online (pdfs)
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Re: [Biofuel] Potassium Methylate

[Keith Addison]

Hi Fox, and Dom

You can get potassium methylate or sodium methylate, the only 
advantage of using it is that slightly less water is formed. Water 
inhibits the transesterification reaction but does not prevent it. 
The small amount of water in ordinary potassium methoxide mixed from 
methanol and potassium hydroxide (KOH) does not have a significant 
effect, as proven by GC tests of homebrew made with potassium 
methoxide, which meet the standards requirements or better. Potassium 
hydroxide is cheaper and more readily available than potassium 
methylate, and the potassium hydroxide mixture is easier to adjust. 
There is no advantage to using potassium methylate.

Dom, a couple of months ago you were just starting your first test 
batches. Stick with what you find at the Journey to Forever site, you 
won't go wrong:

"For anyone starting out or still in the R&D phase of scaling up and 
tweaking the process to improve quality, disregard anything other 
than the tried and tested directions at Journey to Forever. Read them 
and then re-read them. Follow the instructions, don't add or subtract 
anything and you will be making quality biodiesel." -- Tom Kelly, 5 
Nov 2005

"My best advice is to follow explicitly the instructions on the J2F 
website starting from the begining and you will do just fine. In my 
own journey of discovery I learned this. You cannot afford to cut 
corners. Don't be tempted to use less than accurate measures and 
think that it will be alright. There is no cheating." -- Joe Street, 
Biofuel mailing list, 4 Jan 2006

Best

Keith


>You make a solution of potassium methanoate, when you
>dissolve potassium in methanol. Solution is in a
>liquid form. how to make it, go to journeyforever
>website.
>fox
>--- DK & G Morrissey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>  Hi guys.
>>
>>  I have heard that there is now a liquid catalyst
>>  available called Potassium
>>  Methylate. Does anyone know a recipe that uses this
>>  stuff and how to
>>  calculate volumes from titration.
>>
>  > Regards Dom

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[Biofuel] Meet the Economist Who Thinks We're Doomed

[Keith Addison]

Meet the Economist Who Thinks We're Doomed

By Stephen Mihm, The New York Times

Posted on August 18, 2008, Printed on August 18, 2008

http://www.alternet.org/story/95375/

On Sept. 7, 2006, Nouriel Roubini, an economics professor at New York 
University, stood before an audience of economists at the 
International Monetary Fund and announced that a crisis was brewing. 
In the coming months and years, he warned, the United States was 
likely to face a once-in-a-lifetime housing bust, an oil shock, 
sharply declining consumer confidence and, ultimately, a deep 
recession. He laid out a bleak sequence of events: homeowners 
defaulting on mortgages, trillions of dollars of mortgage-backed 
securities unraveling worldwide and the global financial system 
shuddering to a halt. These developments, he went on, could cripple 
or destroy hedge funds, investment banks and other major financial 
institutions like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

The audience seemed skeptical, even dismissive. As Roubini stepped 
down from the lectern after his talk, the moderator of the event 
quipped, "I think perhaps we will need a stiff drink after that." 
People laughed -- and not without reason. At the time, unemployment 
and inflation remained low, and the economy, while weak, was still 
growing, despite rising oil prices and a softening housing market. 
And then there was the espouser of doom himself: Roubini was known to 
be a perpetual pessimist, what economists call a "permabear." When 
the economist Anirvan Banerji delivered his response to Roubini's 
talk, he noted that Roubini's predictions did not make use of 
mathematical models and dismissed his hunches as those of a career 
naysayer.

But Roubini was soon vindicated. In the year that followed, subprime 
lenders began entering bankruptcy, hedge funds began going under and 
the stock market plunged. There was declining employment, a 
deteriorating dollar, ever-increasing evidence of a huge housing bust 
and a growing air of panic in financial markets as the credit crisis 
deepened. By late summer, the Federal Reserve was rushing to the 
rescue, making the first of many unorthodox interventions in the 
economy, including cutting the lending rate by 50 basis points and 
buying up tens of billions of dollars in mortgage-backed securities. 
When Roubini returned to the I.M.F. last September, he delivered a 
second talk, predicting a growing crisis of solvency that would 
infect every sector of the financial system. This time, no one 
laughed. "He sounded like a madman in 2006," recalls the I.M.F. 
economist Prakash Loungani, who invited Roubini on both occasions. 
"He was a prophet when he returned in 2007."

Over the past year, whenever optimists have declared the worst of the 
economic crisis behind us, Roubini has countered with steadfast 
pessimism. In February, when the conventional wisdom held that the 
venerable investment firms of Wall Street would weather the crisis, 
Roubini warned that one or more of them would go "belly up" -- and 
six weeks later, Bear Stearns collapsed. Following the Fed's further 
extraordinary actions in the spring -- including making lines of 
credit available to selected investment banks and brokerage houses -- 
many economists made note of the ensuing economic rally and 
proclaimed the credit crisis over and a recession averted. Roubini, 
who dismissed the rally as nothing more than a "delusional 
complacency" encouraged by a "bunch of self-serving spinmasters," 
stuck to his script of "nightmare" events: waves of corporate 
bankrupticies, collapses in markets like commercial real estate and 
municipal bonds and, most alarming, the possible bankruptcy of a 
large regional or national bank that would trigger a panic by 
depositors. Not all of these developments have come to pass (and 
perhaps never will), but the demise last month of the California bank 
IndyMac -- one of the largest such failures in U.S. history -- drew 
only more attention to Roubini's seeming prescience.

As a result, Roubini, a respected but formerly obscure academic, has 
become a major figure in the public debate about the economy: the 
seer who saw it coming. He has been summoned to speak before 
Congress, the Council on Foreign Relations and the World Economic 
Forum at Davos. He is now a sought-after adviser, spending much of 
his time shuttling between meetings with central bank governors and 
finance ministers in Europe and Asia. Though he continues to issue 
colorful doomsday prophecies of a decidedly nonmainstream sort -- 
especially on his popular and polemical blog, where he offers visions 
of "equity market slaughter" and the "Coming Systemic Bust of the 
U.S. Banking System" -- the mainstream economic establishment appears 
to be moving closer, however fitfully, to his way of seeing things. 
"I have in the last few months become more pessimistic than the 
consensus," the former Treasury secretary Lawrence Summers told me 
earlier this year. "Certainly, Nouri

Re: [Biofuel] Meet the Economist Who Thinks We're Doomed

[Kirk McLoren]

I am amazed it has lasted as long as it has. How many of us would be in crises 
after a year of unemployment? The US, due to "free trade" has moved its 
manufacturing elsewhere - lock stock and barrel. Manufacturing is our "job" - 
our income. We4 keep spending yet have nothing to exchange. Small wonder the 
dollar is becoming toilet paper.
   
  Kirk

Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Meet the Economist Who Thinks We're Doomed

By Stephen Mihm, The New York Times

Posted on August 18, 2008, Printed on August 18, 2008

http://www.alternet.org/story/95375/

On Sept. 7, 2006, Nouriel Roubini, an economics professor at New York 
University, stood before an audience of economists at the 
International Monetary Fund and announced that a crisis was brewing. 
In the coming months and years, he warned, the United States was 
likely to face a once-in-a-lifetime housing bust, an oil shock, 
sharply declining consumer confidence and, ultimately, a deep 
recession. He laid out a bleak sequence of events: homeowners 
defaulting on mortgages, trillions of dollars of mortgage-backed 
securities unraveling worldwide and the global financial system 
shuddering to a halt. These developments, he went on, could cripple 
or destroy hedge funds, investment banks and other major financial 
institutions like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
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[Biofuel] composting woodchips/sawdust

[Fritz Friesinger]

Hi Bernard,Keith,
thanks for your posting on the matter,its very encouraging to know that i am on 
the rigth track!
About woodchips starting fire while composting: indeed the heat generated in a 
damp pile of sawdust
can actually start a fire.In my apprenticetime,we the apprentice had been often 
warned about leaving dump
sawdustpiles under the Tablesaw,because it could start fire there!
I have not experienced any mishap sofar but this maybe because of extra care 
since we had been warned so many times.
It  happens not often in a cabinetshop to cut wet wood but once in a while you 
run in to that situation and i remember allways to clean out
under the tablesaw becaus of this,it becomes a habit!
Jean Pain also states clearly,to pass the woodchips twiced in the chipper,so 
clearly there is no cutting corners here! An other point important 
is to wet the stuff very well when building the reactor and compacting the pile 
as you built it up!
The whole sounds also quite labourintensive but when you consider the time to 
spend to cut firewood,splitting it,pileng to dry and than carriing 
the whole in the house,not to forget maintaining a woodshed,than the time to 
prepare your compostpile seems less work in general!
The beneficial effect on clearing underbrush,specially in havily wooded aereas 
shold not be underestimated as well.
Forest fires would have a harder time to reach your house if no underbrush is 
available!
I guess the viability of the project is fully dependet on where you live and is 
not good in urban aereas,but makes good sence up here in northern
Quebec!
Best 
Fritz
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Re: [Biofuel] Meet the Economist Who Thinks We're Doomed

[Tony Marzolino]

it a different nation, with a different 
place in the world. "Once you run current-account deficits, you 
depend on the kindness of strangers," he said, pausing to let out a 
resigned sigh. "This might be the beginning of the end of the 
American empire."

© 2008 The New York Times

AlterNet is making this New York Times material available in 
accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107: This article is 
distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior 
interest in receiving the included information for research and 
educational purposes.

Stephen Mihm, an assistant professor of economic history at the 
University of Georgia, is the author of "A Nation of Counterfeiters: 
Capitalists, Con Men and the Making of the United States." His last 
feature article for the magazine was about North Korean 
counterfeiting.

© 2008 The New York Times All rights reserved.

View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/95375/


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Re: [Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?

[Jason Mier]

it's real if you consider a kushmann a car... they're used in hazardous 
materials warehouses because they don't produce sparks like electric or 
chemical fuelled carts do. not exactly highway material...


> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:26:12 +0900
> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?
>
>>It is real... I am from Tata Motors.
>>
>>The company is working with a company from France.
>>
>> But the production dates not yet declared...
>
> Thanks - but we've been hearing that for 8 years now, again and again:
> 
>
> It's real but no production date yet. We hear that about a lot of
> things. If you can't get a clear answer to the question "Where can I
> buy one?" then don't bank on anything (but don't necessarily lose
> hope either).
>
> What's the obstacle(s) to production?
>
> Are there any Air Cars actually on the road, working as claimed?
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>Of Keith Addison
>>Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:42 PM
>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The compressed air auto... a hoax or real?
>>
>>Hello Ray, welcome
>>
>>>A while back I saw some video clips on U tube about a car developed
>>>in Europe, Italy or France I believe that runs on compressed air.
>>>It had some huge special carbon fiber tanks underneath the car that
>>>were used to hold compressed air at 3000 p.s.i. The inventer
>>>claimed it could be filled with air overnight at the cost of aprox.
>>>$3 in electricity and the range was about 200 Kilometers. Indias
>>>largest car manufacturer was supposed to actually start building
>>>this in 2009 or 2010.
>>>
>>>Anybody know the real story on this? Thanks, Ray
>>
>>The list archives probably knows something about it - search for "air
>>car" (including the quotes):
>>>lelists.org&q=%22air+car%22>165
>>matches
>>
>>The whole message thread is linked at the end of each page.
>>
>>You should learn how to use the list archives, it's a treasure trove.
>>
>>>/>
>>
>>Best
>>
>>Keith
>
>
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