Re: [Biofuel] was tree power? and...

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hey Bob,
Yes that's what it sounds like...using a tree instead of potatos.
Although perhaps there is something else at play here as well.
I would like to do some experimenting myself but it will have to wait
until spring.

I'm wondering if you can have multiple taps on the same tree to increase power?
Is there a  difference in output when the sap starts running again in the 
spring ;),
output amlification/doubler circuitselectrode metals that won't harm tree,
.can you actually get usable, reliable power from trees?,
 etc etc:)

Are they really using the tree as a battery in the conventional sense, ie + and 
- electrodes of disimilar metals
and electrolyte (tree) and then amplifying that power to something usable.


Or, are they also tapping into something else as well, say the micro volt, 
circulatory system of the
tree.

Or, the tree also acts as antennae and collect RF or other transmissions from 
the atmosphere.


Many other questions as well.

While maybe a little far reaching, thinking about some of these points makes it 
much more
intrigueing than the typical potato battery



regards
tallex



>  ---Original Message---
>  From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tree power? and other stuff
>  Sent: 21 Dec '05 19:41
>  
>  ah yes, they have reinvented the potato clock...
>  
>  
>  
>  Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote:
>  > Hi all,
>  >
>  > This could be neat. These people have supposedly
>  > tapped usable power from a tree.
>  > It is not all that out of the ordinary to detect small voltages
>  > and milliamps from a tree. I did the nail in the bark and the copper tube 
> in the ground set up years ago when I was a child.
>  > I didn't have an digital meter at the time (They were over $450 at the 
> time, way to expensive for a 13 year old kid) but I was able to measure 
> between .4 -.7 of one volt and from 50-80 milliamps,from various trees. I 
> just chalked it up weak galvanic reactions at the time and set the 
> experiments aside.
>  >
>  > It is not too difficult to boost small amounts of juice enough to charge a 
> small battery using capacitors and diodes
>  >  , so in reference to this article, it may be time to revisit this idea of 
> obtaining usable power from trees.
>  >
>  >
>  > It is after all, a press release, so take some of the Hyperbole with a few 
> grains of salt but the experiments do deserve some further consideration and 
> are an interesting area of experimentation
>  >
>  
>  why would any rational person, for motives other than scamming, want to 
> pursue this.  The energy has
>  nothing to do with trees and everything to do with the redox potentials of 
> copper and aluminum.  You
>  can do the same thing with salt water.
>  
>  >
>  > regards
>  > tallex
>  >
>  >
>  > < http://www.automotive.com/features/90/auto-news/17333/index.html >
>  >
>  > MagCap Engineering, LLC Announces 'Free' Unlimited Energy Source Developed 
> That Draws Power from the Environment
>  > CANTON, Mass., Dec. 20 /PRNewswire/ -- An alternative electric power 
> generating system that draws energy from a seemingly unlikely yet abundant, 
> eminently renewable and virtually free power source has been submitted for 
> patenting by MagCap Engineering, LLC, Canton, Mass., in collaboration with 
> Gordon W. Wadle, an inventor from Thomson, Ill.
>  >
>  > Wadle has invented a way to capture the energy generated by a living non- 
> animal organism -- such as a tree. Chris Lagadinos, president of MagCap, 
> developed circuitry that converts this natural energy source into useable DC 
> power capable of sustaining a continuous current to charge and maintain a 
> battery at full charge.
>  >
>  > "As unbelievable as it sounds, we've been able to demonstrate the 
> feasibility of generating electricity in this manner," said Wadle. "While the 
> development is in its infancy, it has the potential to provide an unlimited 
> supply of constant, clean energy without relying on fossil fuels, a power 
> generating plant complex or an elaborate transmission network."
>  >
>  > The developers now intend to establish a collaborative agreement with a 
> company, academic institution or potential investors who can help finance the 
> additional research and development necessary to take the invention to the 
> next level -- a practical, commercially viable power generating system.
>  >
>  > Wadle likened the invention to the Discovery of electricity over 200 years 
> ago when charged particles were harnessed to create an electric current. "Now 
> we've learned that there is an immense, inexhaust

[Biofuel] tree power? and other stuff

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi all,

This could be neat. These people have supposedly
tapped usable power from a tree.
It is not all that out of the ordinary to detect small voltages
and milliamps from a tree. I did the nail in the bark and the copper tube in 
the ground set up years ago when I was a child.
I didn't have an digital meter at the time (They were over $450 at the time, 
way to expensive for a 13 year old kid) but I was able to measure between .4 
-.7 of one volt and from 50-80 milliamps,from various trees. I just chalked it 
up weak galvanic reactions at the time and set the experiments aside.

It is not too difficult to boost small amounts of juice enough to charge a 
small battery using capacitors and diodes
 , so in reference to this article, it may be time to revisit this idea of 
obtaining usable power from trees.


It is after all, a press release, so take some of the Hyperbole with a few 
grains of salt but the experiments do deserve some further consideration and 
are an interesting area of experimentation


regards
tallex


< http://www.automotive.com/features/90/auto-news/17333/index.html >

MagCap Engineering, LLC Announces 'Free' Unlimited Energy Source Developed That 
Draws Power from the Environment 
CANTON, Mass., Dec. 20 /PRNewswire/ -- An alternative electric power generating 
system that draws energy from a seemingly unlikely yet abundant, eminently 
renewable and virtually free power source has been submitted for patenting by 
MagCap Engineering, LLC, Canton, Mass., in collaboration with Gordon W. Wadle, 
an inventor from Thomson, Ill.

Wadle has invented a way to capture the energy generated by a living non- 
animal organism -- such as a tree. Chris Lagadinos, president of MagCap, 
developed circuitry that converts this natural energy source into useable DC 
power capable of sustaining a continuous current to charge and maintain a 
battery at full charge.

"As unbelievable as it sounds, we've been able to demonstrate the feasibility 
of generating electricity in this manner," said Wadle. "While the development 
is in its infancy, it has the potential to provide an unlimited supply of 
constant, clean energy without relying on fossil fuels, a power generating 
plant complex or an elaborate transmission network."

The developers now intend to establish a collaborative agreement with a 
company, academic institution or potential investors who can help finance the 
additional research and development necessary to take the invention to the next 
level -- a practical, commercially viable power generating system.

Wadle likened the invention to the Discovery of electricity over 200 years ago 
when charged particles were harnessed to create an electric current. "Now we've 
learned that there is an immense, inexhaustible source of energy literally all 
around us that can be harnessed and converted into usable electric power," he 
said.

Ultimately, it should prove to be more practical than solar energy or wind 
power, and certainly more affordable than fuel cells, he added.

Wadle said he got the original idea of harnessing a tree for electrical energy 
from studying lightening, more than 50 percent of which originates from the 
ground. This prompted him to develop the theories resulting in a method to 
access this power source. Lagadinos then designed circuitry that filtered and 
amplified these energy emanations, creating a useable power source.

Basically, the existing system includes a metal rod embedded in the tree, a 
grounding rod driven into the ground, and the connecting circuitry, which 
filters and boosts the power output sufficient to charge a battery. In its 
current experimental configuration, the demonstration system produces 2.1 
volts, enough to continuously maintain a full charge in a nickel cadmium 
battery attached to an LED light.

"Think of the environment as a battery, in this case," said Lagadinos, "with 
the tree as the positive pole and the grounding rod as the negative."

Near term -- within the next six months or so -- and with additional research 
and development, Lagadinos said the system could be enhanced enough to generate 
12 volts and one amp of power, "a desirable power level that could be used to 
power just about anything," he said.
 


It is enough power to charge batteries for any type of vehicle, including 
hybrids and electric cars, or to use with an AC converter to produce household 
power, he added. The LED industry is a prime example of a potential user of 
this power source.

Other applications would be to provide power for signs, security lights, 
street, park and hiking trail lights, surveillance or sensor equipment -- any 
application that heretofore couldn't be serviced because it lay beyond the 
hard-wired power grid.

Government agencies and the military could find the system especially useful 
because the power is basically free, unlimited and can be produced in remote 
locations.

MagCap is now seeking to establish a collaborative relationship with a third 

[Biofuel] vehicle/people tracking

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Wide spread tracking of people, vehicles and products will be everywhere within 
a few years.
RFID chips will soon be embedded in all product packaging. Pet chipping ID 
becoming popular
over the past several years has just been approved for humans. Other tech 
either being implimented or planned,... biometrics, eye scans, finger print 
scans and smart cards for ID, national ID cards (with embedded  smart chips) EU 
wants to embed RFID chips in the EURO enabling a record of all cash 
transactions that currency note goes through. Consumers are photoed hundreds of 
times daily and growing, once face recognition software becomes wide spread and 
interfaced with the appropriate or inappropriate databases, there is no limit 
to the possabilities for intelligence and monitoring of citizens.Add wireless, 
bluetooth, geo person/vehicle tracking, purchasing habits through smart 
credit/debit cards and soon RFID paper money and they pretty well know where 
and what you are up to.  At least one appliance co's wants to have RFID sensing 
technology in their washers and dryers that would fetch information on washing 
instructions from an RFID chip embedded in the garment. Many of these 
technologies are introduced in a consumer friendly way such as geo tracked 
roadside assistance subscriptions for vehicles, inventory tracking and anti 
theft systems all use similar tech. Lots of other juice tech coming down the 
pipeline.

Privacy had been eroding for a long time but it's a whole new world out there. 

regards
tallex






>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] vehicle tracking - pilot project now federally funded
>  Sent: 08 Dec '05 13:47
>  
>  We can be tracked by cell phones, closed circuit TV cameras on city
>  streets and soon I suspect, national ID cards under the REAL ID act. It's
>  the legislation behind the technology that concerns me. After all, You
>  don't need advanced technology to track someone. You only need someone
>  with a willingness to watch you and the destruction of any limitations for
>  that person to so (i.e. the USA Patriot Act).
>  
>  
>  Mike
>  
>  _MIKE WEAVER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>_ wrote: Most new cars have a chip
>  in them that can report pretty much everything
>  the car does - like a "black box" flight recorder.
>  Another reason to have an old 300D!
>  
>  Michael Redler wrote:
>  
>  > Thanks Kirk.
>  >
>  > I will distribute as widely as I can!
>  >
>  > "Dubya" still has some "political capital" (as he likes to say). All
>  >  the work put into creating a culture of fear, leading to disturbing
>  > civil rights violations, makes me surprised that the "national
>  > security" card wasn't played.
>  >
>  > From the story: "No restrictions prevent police from continually
>  > monitoring, without a court order, the whereabouts of every vehicle on
>  > the road."
>  >
>  > Despite the new spin, it still strangely (or ominously) resembles the
>  > USA Patriot Act.
>  >
>  > Mike
>  >
>  >
>  > */Kirk McLoren /* wrote:
>  >
>  > ZDNet.com is running a story about a runaway idea of a
>  > [0]tracking automobiles via GPS. Not to be confused with the Canadian
>  > project geared towards [1]anti-speeding ideas, this one does in fact
>  > have the goal of tracking your vehicle. 'The U.S. Department of
>  > Transportation has been handing millions of dollars to state
>  > governments for
>  > GPS-tracking pilot projects  designed to track vehicles wherever they
>  > go.
>  > So far, Washington state and Oregon have received fat federal
>  > checks to
>  > figure out how to levy these 'mileage-based road user fees.' However,
>  > the article goes on to talk about how there is no provision in
>  > place to
>  > prevent the uncontrolled surveillance of motorists without a court
>  > order."
>  >
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[Biofuel] poison+water=hydrogen

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Poison + water = hydrogen. New microbial genome shows how

< http://www.keralanext.com/news/index.asp?id=455612 >


Rockville, Md.--Take a pot of scalding water, remove all
 the oxygen, mix in a bit of poisonous carbon monoxide,
 and add a pinch of hydrogen gas. It sounds like a recipe
 for a witch's brew. It may be, but it is also the preferred
 environment for a microbe known as Carboxydothermus 
hydrogenoformans. In a paper published in the November
 27th issue of PLoS Genetics, a research team led by 
scientists at The Institute for Genomic Research (TIGR)
 report the determination and analysis of the complete
 genome sequence of this organism. Isolated from a hot
 spring on the Russian volcanic island of Kunashir, this
 microbe lives almost entirely on carbon monoxide. While
 consuming this normally poisonous gas, the microbe mixes
 it with water, producing hydrogen gas as waste. 

As the world increasingly considers hydrogen as a potential
 biofuel, technology could benefit from having the genomes
 of such microbes. "C. hydrogenoformans is one of the
 fastest-growing microbes that can convert water and carbon
 monoxide to hydrogen," remarks TIGR evolutionary biologist
 Jonathan Eisen, senior author of the PLoS Genetics study.
 "So if you're interested in making clean fuels, this 
microbe makes an excellent starting point." 

In sequencing the microbe's genome, Eisen and his 
collaborators discovered why C. hydrogenoformans grows
 more rapidly on carbon monoxide than other species: 
The bug boasts at least five different forms of a protein
 machine, dubbed carbon monoxide deyhydrogenase, that is
 able to manipulate the poisonous gas. Each form of the
machine appears to allow the organism to use carbon 
monoxide in a different way. Most other organisms that
 live on carbon monoxide have only one form of this 
machine. In other words, while other organisms may 
have the equivalent of a modest mixing bowl to process
 their supper of carbon monoxide, this species has a
 veritable food processor, letting it gorge on a hot
 spring buffet all day. "The findings show the continued
 value of microbial genome sequencing for exploring
 the useful capabilities of the vast realm of microbial
 life on Earth," says Ari Patrinos, director of the
 Office of Biological and Environmental Research, part
 of the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Office of
 Science. DOE, which funded the study, is pursuing
 clean fuel technologies. 

Little was known about this hydrogen-breathing organism
 before its genome sequence was determined. By utilizing
 computational analyses and comparison with the genomes
 of other organisms, the researchers have discovered 
several remarkable features. For example, the genome
 encodes a full suite of genes for making spores, a
 previously unknown talent of the microbe. Organisms
 that make spores have attracted great interest recently
 because this is a process found in the bacterium that
 causes anthrax. Sporulation allows anthrax to be used
 as a bioweopon because the spores are resistant to heat,
 radiation, and other treatments. 

By comparing this genome to those of other spore-making
 species, including the anthrax pathogen, Eisen and 
colleagues identified what may be the minimal biochemica
 machinery necessary for any microbe to sporulate. Thus 
studies of this poison eating microbe may help us better
 understand the biology of the bacterium that causes 
anthrax. Building off this work, TIGR scientists are 
leveraging the information from the genome of this organism
 to study the ecology of microbes living in diverse hot 
springs, such as those in Yellowstone National Park. They
 want to know what types of microbes are found in different
 hot springs--and why. To find out, the researchers are 
dipping into the hot springs of Yellowstone, Russia, and
 other far-flung locales, to isolate and decipher the 
genomes of microbes found there. 

"What we want to have is a field guide for these microbes,
 like those available for birds and mammals," Eisen says.
 "Right now, we can't even answer simple questions. Do 
similar hot springs, a world apart, share similar microbes?
 How do microbes move between hot springs? Our new work will
 help us find out." 





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[Biofuel] biobased plastics - electroactive polymers

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Biobased Plastic Flexes Its Muscle 


Washington - Electroactive polymers--plastics that
 expand or contract when stimulated by electricity--can
 now be made from plants rather than petrochemicals,
 according to Agricultural Research Service (ARS) 
scientists in Peoria, Ill.



There is now significant interest in the possible use
 of electroactive polymers in many industrial and 
biomedical applications, from light-emitting diodes
 and controlled-release devices to artificial muscles
 and environmental sensors. The material is typically
 petroleum-based, but ARS researchers Victoria Finkenstadt
 and J.L. Willett showed that plant polysaccharides
 like starch can work just as well.



Use of the polysaccharides in certain types of conductive
 polymers could leapfrog some of the pitfalls associated
 with using petroleum feedstocks, such as U.S. reliance
 on foreign suppliers, according to Finkenstadt, a chemist,
 and Willett, a supervisory chemical engineer with ARS' 
National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research in 
Peoria.

full article






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[Biofuel] glycerine uses..was Disposal of glycerine...

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hello Michael,
I don't know what quantities you are going to be dealing with
but glycerine has thousands of uses from
a food and candy ingredient, soaps, hand and skin lotions, explosives etc.
If you can't use all your production, you may want to sell it locally as
it really shouldn't be thrown away.

The links below may give you some ideas.

regards
tallex

< http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html >

< http://www.cleaning101.com/oleo/whygly2.html >

< http://www.acme-hardesty.com/productdetails.cfm?PID=28 >

< http://www.utahbiodiesel.org/biodiesel_links.html >

< http://www.chem.yorku.ca/hall_of_fame/essays96/glycerol.htm >

>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...
>  Sent: 27 Nov '05 13:50
>  
>  Michael,
>  
>  Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or are
>  you speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fatty
>  acid recovery on the same soup?
>  
>  Todd Swearingen
>  
>  
>  >Hi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently realized
>  >that I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left
>  >over glycerine.
>  >
>  >I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't just dump it
>  >or compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes
>  >i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trash removal.
>  >
>  >Michael Luich
>  >  
>  >
>  
>  

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[Biofuel] disposable solar panels developed using nanotechnology

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Disposable solar panels developed using nanotechnology


Scientists at the University of Cape Town are exploiting
 the nano-scale properties of silicon to develop a 
super-thin disposable solar panel poster which they
 hope could offer rural dwellers a cheap, alternative
 source of power. Many people living in remote areas
 are not linked to the national electricity grid, and
 use batteries or run their own generators to supply
 their power needs. The scientists have developed
 technology for printing specialised inks containing
 tiny nanoparticles of silicon and other semiconductors
 onto paper. The solar panels are printed in much the
 same way as conventional colour images, using three
 or four separate print runs with black, blue, yellow
 and magenta ink. They print the metal contacts, then
 the semiconductor structure, then more contacts. The
 voltage and power output of the solar cell is determined
 by the size of the poster. An A2-sized poster will 
deliver up to 100W of power, enough to charge a cellphone,
 power a radio or provide five hours of lighting, said
 Prof David Britton, a physicist specialising in 
nanotechnology. Many families cannot afford R1000 for
 a solar panel designed to last 30 years, but they can
 afford R10 every three to six months for a 'disposable'
 panel, he said.

Shops could stock rolls of solar panel posters, and cut
 it to meet a customer's needs. The poster could be mounted
 behind a window or attached to a cabinet. Britton's team
 has built a successful prototype and is seeking to 
commercialise the project. 


< http://news.mongabay.com/2005/1121-uct.html >



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Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Hydrogen Injection for Class 8 Trucks

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi Robert,
Thanks a lot for giving us all the details on this device

tallex

>  ---Original Message---
>  From: robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: [Biofuel] Supplemental Hydrogen Injection for Class 8 Trucks
>  Sent: 22 Nov '05 01:23
>  
>  Ok everyone, I went to Hodgson Heavy Duty this afternoon to inquire
>  about the supplemental hydrogen injection unit.  Here are the
>  pertinent facts:
>  
>  1.  The unit consists of a single, enclosed cell made of stainless
>  steel.  I don't know what they're using for electrode or separator
>  material.
>  
>  2.  Voltage from the truck's charging circuit is stepped down and
>  amperage increased.  The actual unit runs about 2 volts, with current
>  densities a little over 60 amps.
>  
>  3.  The cell contains an electric heater at the bottom, which is
>  activated by a sensor ONLY when the truck's engine is running.  The
>  unit is designed for freezing weather and will heat up sufficiently
>  for full function within two hours, if it's been frozen solid.  Most
>  truckers leave their engines running in cold weather, however, so this
>  apparently isn't much of a problem.
>  
>  4.  H2 and O2 are injected together, at 60 psi on the pressure side of
>  the intake, downstream from the turbo.  When the engine is shut off,
>  all gases are purged from the system for safety.
>  
>  5.  The water reservoir must be recharged at about 100 hours of
>  service.  Electrolyte is never replenished.
>  
>  6.  The unit is guaranteed to increase fuel economy by at least 10%.
>  Larry Hodgson says that four of his regular customers have the
>  supplemental hydrogen unit installed, and they report gains in power
>  and fuel economy.  (He's installed many of these, but not all
>  customers are REGULAR customers.)  When the unit has a problem, he
>  says the drivers can tell right away that it isn't working because
>  there's a notable loss of power.
>  
>  7.  One customer, who hauls Super B train loads of wood chips to and
>  from a mill over the Cascades, reports only a 2% fuel economy gain
>  because of the topography of his run.  This trucker burns over $12 000
>  in fuel every month, saving about $250.  At that rate of return, the
>  unit will not pay for itself (it runs about $15 000 CDN) before the
>  lease on the truck runs out.  Larry Hodgson reports that this guy
>  remains happy with the electrolyzer, however, because the increased
>  power helps him climb the nightmare grades between here and there.
>  
>  8.  Larry Hodgson says the company is reputable and stands behind
>  their product.
>  
>  Now, he's got a VERY busy shop.  The Lickman Road interchange, where
>  his truck shop is located, is the third busiest commercial
>  intersection in Canada.  There are trucks and trailers lined up to get
>  into Hodgson Heavy Duty, and having worked in that industry myself, I
>  don't think a repair shop owner would risk the reputation of his
>  business on a product that didn't perform as advertised; I know the
>  profit / loss margins are very narrow in the repair business.  He was
>  very helpful and talked to me for over twenty minutes.
>  
>  
>  robert luis rabello
>  "The Edge of Justice"
>  Adventure for Your Mind
>  http://www.newadventure.ca
>  
>  Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>  http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>  
>  Get your daily alternative energy news

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Re: [Biofuel] acetone

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi Derick,
thanks for the update. Anyone else trying acetone?
regards
tallex


>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Derick Giorchino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone
>  Sent: 20 Nov '05 05:03
>  
>  I have used the acetone on dino fuel with 2.5 gpm increase I also have tried
>  it on bio and found a net loss of about the same 2.5 gpm  but I only tried
>  it one time at 2 oz per 10 gal on both fuels.
>  Derick.
>  
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork
>  Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 1:06 PM
>  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone
>  
>  
>  Hi,
>  Yes I was wondering about the acetone experiments also.
>  As far as I know a few people on 2 or 3 other lists were going to document
>  their experiments.
>  Anybody hear of any updates?
>  
>  tallex
>  
>  
>  
>  Get your daily alternative energy news
>  
>  Alternate Energy Resource Network
>    1000+ news sources-resources
>     updated daily
>  
>  http://www.alternate-energy.net
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  Next Generation Grid
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/
>  
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>  
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>  
>  
>  
>  >  ---Original Message---
>  >  From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  >  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone
>  >  Sent: 18 Nov '05 20:47
>  >  
>  >  while we are on this thread, might we wander back a few months to a
>  >  related issue?  That is the claim that addition of small amounts of
>  >  acetone to both compression and spark ignition engines would result in
>  >  dramatic increases in fuel efficiency, as much as 35 % increases claimed
>  >  by some.
>  >  
>  >  http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
>  >  
>  >  Anybody have any well-controlled results to report?
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  robert luis rabello wrote:
>  >  > William Adams wrote:
>  >  >
>  >  >> David,
>  >  >>
>  >  >> Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to
>  look at
>  >  >> the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for
>  real?
>  >  >
>  >  >   The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one.
>  >  > Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power
>  >  > and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical.
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > robert luis rabello
>  >  > "The Edge of Justice"
>  >  > Adventure for Your Mind
>  >  > http://www.newadventure.ca
>  >  >
>  >  > Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>  >  > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > ___
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>  >  
>  >  --
>  >  Bob Allen
>  >  http://ozarker.org/bob
>  >  
>  >  "Science is what we have learned about how to keep
>  >  from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman
>  >  
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Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi,
Yes I was wondering about the acetone experiments also.
As far as I know a few people on 2 or 3 other lists were going to document 
their experiments.
Anybody hear of any updates?

 tallex



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>  ---Original Message---
>  From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone
>  Sent: 18 Nov '05 20:47
>  
>  while we are on this thread, might we wander back a few months to a
>  related issue?  That is the claim that addition of small amounts of
>  acetone to both compression and spark ignition engines would result in
>  dramatic increases in fuel efficiency, as much as 35 % increases claimed
>  by some.
>  
>  http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
>  
>  Anybody have any well-controlled results to report?
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  robert luis rabello wrote:
>  > William Adams wrote:
>  >
>  >> David,
>  >>
>  >> Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look 
> at
>  >> the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for 
> real?
>  >
>  > The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one.
>  > Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power
>  > and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical.
>  >
>  >
>  > robert luis rabello
>  > "The Edge of Justice"
>  > Adventure for Your Mind
>  > http://www.newadventure.ca
>  >
>  > Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>  > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>  >
>  >
>  > ___
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>  > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>  >
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> messages):
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>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  
>  
>  --
>  Bob Allen
>  http://ozarker.org/bob
>  
>  "Science is what we have learned about how to keep
>  from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman
>  
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[Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Truckers Choose Hydrogen Power  

< http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,69529,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_5 >


Hundreds of semitrailer trucks zipping along North
 American highways are now powered in part by hydrogen. 
These 18-wheelers make hydrogen as they go, eliminating
 the need for high-pressure, cryogenic storage tanks
 or hydrogen filling stations, which, by the way, don't
 yet exist. 

These truckers aren't just do-gooders. They like Canadian
 Hydrogen Energy's Hydrogen Fuel Injection, or HFI, system
 because it lets them save fuel, get more horsepower and,
 as a bonus, cause less pollution. 

 "We're saving $700 a month per truck on fuel," said Sherwin
 Fast, president of Great Plains Trucking in Salinas, Kansas.
 The company tried the HFI system on four trucks and has 
ordered 25 more. 

"Drivers like the increased power and noticed there is a lot
 less black smoke coming out of the stacks," said Fast. 

HFI is a bolt-on, aftermarket part that injects small amounts
 of hydrogen into the engine air intake, said Canadian Hydrogen
 Energy's Steve Gilchrist. Fuel efficiency and horsepower are
 improved because hydrogen burns faster and hotter than diesel,
 dramatically boosting combustion efficiency. 

"You get more work from the same amount of fuel," said Gilchrist. 

This is not a new idea. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory at the 
California Institute of Technology published research on the 
uses of hydrogen as a combustion-enhancing agent in the early 
1970s. But the ability to make hydrogen on the go is novel. 

The sticking point for hydrogen has always been getting it. 
Unlike crude oil, natural gas, wind or solar energy, hydrogen
 doesn't exist freely in nature. It costs $5 a gallon to make
 hydrogen from natural gas. 

But the HFI system uses electricity from an engine's alternator
 to power the electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen as needed
 from small amounts of distilled water. 

"That's a big advantage and a bit of a novelty," said Venki Raman,
 an expert on hydrogen-energy applications who started Protium
 Energy Technologies. 

HFI's manufacturer guarantees 10 percent fuel savings, which likely
 won't interest car companies or consumers, Raman said. But a 
reduction of pollution emissions could spur broader use. 

Trucks with the HFI system produce half the amount of particulates
 -- microscopic, unburned bits of diesel. The system also reduces
 nitrogen-oxide emissions, which are major contributors to harmful
 air pollution, by up to 14 percent, according to Canada's 
Environmental Technology Verification Program. 

The HFI units are relatively small and cost between $4,000 and
 $14,000, depending on the size of the vehicle. 

"It looks like a good transition technology to hydrogen fuel cells,
 which are still at least 15 years away from commercialization," 
said Raman. 

It will take at least until 2040 before fuel cells begin to reduce
 greenhouse gas emissions, according to the National Hydrogen 
Association, Gilchrist pointed out. 

"We vehemently disagree with governments picking the fuel cell as
 the single path to a cleaner environment," he said. 

Gilchrist recently argued just this point in meetings with 
California officials, who are considering buying prototype 
fuel-cell vehicles that will cost more than $1 million each. 
That money could buy many HFI systems, which would provide
 "300 times" the air-pollution reductions of one fuel-cell 
vehicle, he said. 


< http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,69529,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_5 >





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[Biofuel] was.. 20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hello,
There is tons of credable information on rigged voting machines
and other irregularities that (allegedly) happened in the last election
and you would have to be  dumber than a box of hammers to not think
something very fishy went on especially with Diebold and co.
The last election was rigged in more ways than one.  Perhaps
it's time to bring in international observers to supervise the next one.
Yeah, that will really happen ;)  sarcasm intended.
Demanding a verifiable, certified paper trail after voting might be a start.




regards 
tallex


>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA
>  Sent: 14 Nov '05 02:51
>  
>  Yup.ÊÊKnow what's funny.ÊÊThe republicans are doing a far better job
>  of destroying themselves in the past few weeks than the democrats have
>  ever managed to do, and the democrats are STILL having a hard time
>  positioning themselves as the winners in the whole thing.
>  
>  Remember when we (americans) were making jokes about the corruption in
>  Italy's government...ÊÊWell, what do you think WE look like?
>  
>  On 11/13/05, ABC aquaculture <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Scary stuff,
>  >
>  >ÊÊO dear we are in the shitÊÊ!
>  >
>  >



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>  >
>  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>  > bmolloy
>  >ÊÊSent: Monday, 14 November 2005 12:30 PM
>  >ÊÊTo: Biofuel
>  >ÊÊSubject: [Biofuel] 20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Hi All,
>  >
>  >
>  > Anyone with some inside knowledge, is this just an urban 
> legend?
>  >
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  >
>  >
>  > Bob.
>  >
>  > http://nightweed.com/printableusavotefacts.html
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 20 Amazing Facts About
>  >ÊÊVoting in the USA
>  >
>  >
>  >ÊÊby Angry Girl
>  >
>  > Nightweed.com
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Did you know
>  >
>  > 1.ÊÊ80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies:ÊÊDiebold
>  > and ES&S.
>  >
>  > http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html
>  >
>  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 2.ÊÊThere is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of 
> the
>  > U.S. voting machine industry.
>  >
>  > http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm
>  >
>  > http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 3.ÊÊThe vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.
>  >
>  > http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/private_company.html
>  >
>  > http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 4.ÊÊThe chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and
>  > donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its
>  > electoral votes to the president next year."
>  >
>  > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main632436.shtml
>  >
>  > http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 5.ÊÊRepublican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S.ÊÊHe became
>  > Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.
>  >
>  > http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html
>  >
>  > http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031004Fitrakis/031004fitrakis.html
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 6.ÊÊRepublican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, 
> was
>  > recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics
>  > Committee.
>  >
>  > http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=26
>  >
>  > http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx
>  >
>  > http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 7.ÊÊSenator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's
>  > vice-presidential candidates.
>  >
>  > http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm
>  >
>  > http://theindependent.com/stories/052700/new_hagel27.html
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 8.ÊÊES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts
>  > almost 60% of all U.S. votes.
>  >
>  > http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html
>  >
>  > http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 9.ÊÊDiebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any
>  > votes.ÊÊIn other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out
>  > of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.
>  >
>  > http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
>  >
>  > http://www.i

[Biofuel] IRS certifies hybrid vehicles

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

IRS Certifies Ford and Mercury Hybrid Vehicles for the Clean-Fuel Deduction



Washington - Ford Motor Co. (NYSE: F) got a huge break Tuesday when the
Internal Revenue Service certified the model year 2006 Ford Escape
Hybrid and the 2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid vehicles as being eligible
for the clean-burning fuel deduction. This certification means that
taxpayers who purchase one of these hybrid vehicles new during
calendar year 2005 may claim a tax deduction of up to $2,000
on Form 1040.

full article here












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[Biofuel] chlorine was Separating Glycerine/FFA

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

OK Zeke,
you corrected yourself.
regards
tallex


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>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine/FFA
>  Sent: 31 Oct '05 04:50
>  
>  Ooops.ÊÊI had an indefinite pronoun in my last post, which implied
>  that I thought chlorine gas was not dangerous.ÊÊI meant to say that,
>  unlike chlorine gas, sodium chloride is not dangerous.ÊÊThe last
>  sentence should have readÊÊ " You can get chlorine gas from sodium
>  chloride by electrolyzing saltwater, or mixing sodium hypochlorite
>  with lye aparrently, but sodium chloride is not all that dangerous by
>  itself."
>  
>  Zeke
>  
>  "
>  
>  On 10/30/05, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > Table salt is NOT the same as chlorine gas.ÊÊ Why do you think it is?
>  >
>  > On 10/30/05, Jason and Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > >
>  > > - Original Message -
>  > > From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > > Sodium chloride is table salt.ÊÊChlorine is the yellow gas you're
>  > > > talking about I think.ÊÊYou can get it from sodium chloride by
>  > > > electrolyzing saltwater, or mixing sodium hypochlorite with lye
>  > > > aparrently, but it's not all that dangerous by itself.
>  > >
>  > > Chlorine gas was some of the other materials besides mustard gas that was
>  > > used in WWI in the chemical artillery shells. if you think it isnt all 
> that
>  > > bad, try reading some of the medical reports of affected soldiers, or 
> even
>  > > the scientific studies that developed the ideas behind chemical warfare.
>  > > chlorine gas is one of the reasons chemical warfare is subject to such a
>  > > heavy retribution in the international community. if you dont think its
>  > > dangerous, by all means try it, then lets see how you fare.
>  > >



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[Biofuel] Chlorine gas..was Separating Glycerine/FFA

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hello,

chlorine gas can be very dangerous and deadly if inhaled in
sufficient quantities.
You may have made some accidentally by mixing ammonia with bleach
or cleaning up cat urine with bleach. It is a yellowish green gas with a 
pungent,
eye searing odour...not good



Clean-up underway after 150,000 flee gas leak
< http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/18/content_324262.htm >


Gas leak kills 3 in Beijing
< http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/22/content_325229.htm >


Risky Chlorine Gas in Water Treatment
< http://www.clo2.com/reading/waternews/chlorine.html >



Dosing units reduce the risk of chlorine-gas leakage
< http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/eng/features/sewage/?show=64311 >







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>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Jason and Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine/FFA
>  Sent: 31 Oct '05 04:19
>  
>  
>  - Original Message -
>  From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  
>  
>  
>  > Sodium chloride is table salt.ÊÊChlorine is the yellow gas you're
>  > talking about I think.ÊÊYou can get it from sodium chloride by
>  > electrolyzing saltwater, or mixing sodium hypochlorite with lye
>  > aparrently, but it's not all that dangerous by itself.
>  
>  Chlorine gas was some of the other materials besides mustard gas that was
>  used in WWI in the chemical artillery shells. if you think it isnt all that
>  bad, try reading some of the medical reports of affected soldiers, or even
>  the scientific studies that developed the ideas behind chemical warfare.
>  chlorine gas is one of the reasons chemical warfare is subject to such a
>  heavy retribution in the international community. if you dont think its
>  dangerous, by all means try it, then lets see how you fare.
>  
>  ---
>  [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>  
>  
>  ___
>  Biofuel mailing list
>  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>  
>  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>  
>  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>  
>  

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[Biofuel] rigged voting machines was Oil and democracy -was-Scientific method

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

It  might be a good idea to get rid of 
those nasty Diebolt rigged voting machines that left no paper trail.
During the election the ceo of that co, told Bush " I'll deliver Ohio".
On a similar note, a local professor obtained the machine code for the units
and had his students analize it. They found that it used an encryption key
that had been discontinued in 1994 and was easily hackable by phone line.
Might want to leave a proper paper trail next time, so at least
the count can be verified for irregularities.



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 updated daily
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>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Oil and democracy -was-Scientific method
>  Sent: 27 Oct '05 16:16
>  
>  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  Hash: SHA1
>  
>  Paul S Cantrell wrote:
>  > The last 2 elections would
>  > have probably gone the other way if it were simple majority. I think the
>  > concerns over time zones and the like could be worked out and we might have
>  > more than 2 twin parties.
>  
>  Personally, I think some simple changes would fix a lot of what
>  is currently borked in the US political system. Debates for
>  instance, pretty much all public debating (meaning televised)
>  is done of, by and for the Twin Partys. This should cease
>  immediately. This much of the system process would be
>  well served by true open debate, including by design
>  "third" or "fringe" party candidates. I think this alone
>  would be easy to handle under law. I think it could
>  make a huge difference.
>  
>  I concurr that the electoral college system is also
>  borked, however, the "simple majority" system is
>  also deeply flawed.
>  
>  Folks try to look at things as if there were red
>  and blue "states" (because it's the state vote
>  that counts). But it isn't red and blue states,
>  it's urban vs rural.
>  
>  http://brianhayes.com/2005/09/red-blue-rural-urban.html
>  
>  in a "popular" election, the urbanites would
>  win outright. Policy would be set by those
>  living furthest from the elemental necessities
>  of existance.
>  
>  blah blah blah. The Twin Party system is very
>  much a very real problem. imho, the democrats
>  have nothing to offer, they (at the top
>  tiers) represent a life that I know little
>  of. The republicans have nothing to offer,
>  they (at the top tiers) represent a power
>  structure that has no grasp on what the
>  philosophic "common man" has to face in
>  day to day life, AT ALL. The Libertarians
>  (with a capitol L) have become the party
>  of "I've got mine, and whatever I do to
>  keep it is okay, you don't matter, at all".
>  
>  America, the US, is hardly a united states
>  at all. It is a chain (as it's nicely worded in
>  the Urban Archipelago) of islands.
>  
>  I'm just old enough to have spent a few formative
>  years hitchhiking around America, in some ways
>  too many years, in other ways, not enough. But
>  "in those days" people still hitchhiked, and still
>  met all kinds of folks. Now, no one hitchhikes,
>  but everyone jabbers on cellphones, ignoring the
>  person standing next to them in line.
>  
>  blah blah blah.
>  
>  - --
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[Biofuel] energy harvesters extract power from light, vibrations

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Energy harvesters extract power from light, vibrations
Harvesting ambient energy from light or vibrational sources
can free power-miserly designs from traditional power lines
and batteries

< http://www.edn.com/article/CA6275407.html?industryid=2816 >



Many systems, such as tiny wireless-networked sensor nodes
 and low-cost calculators for the consumer market, have 
severely constrained power sources resulting from remote
 location, cost considerations, portability requirements,
 or other factors. In addition, the move toward wireless
 communications, which obsoletes many system cables, makes
 designers want to further untether systems from power cords
 and recharge units using energy harvesters. These small 
devices convert the freely available energy inherent in 
most operating environments into conditioned electrical
 power. The most common energy harvesters are based on 
small solar cells or electromagnetic devices that convert
 mechanical vibrations.

Energy harvesters also find use in environments that have
 ready access to power lines, such as factory floors. Roy
 Freeland, chief executive officer of energy-harvester
 vendor Perpetuum, points out that initial installation
 can be a significant portion of system costs for networked
 machinery monitors. "The cost of taking that factory power
 and wiring it up to the sensor and transmitter accounts
 for about 80% of the cost of installing condition-monitoring
 equipment." In contrast, the installation of self-contained
 power units with magnetic holders involves only walking up
 to a machine and snapping the unit in place.

Batteries also can free a system from a power cord but
 at the cost of limiting the system's service-free life.
 After two years of usage, a vibrational energy harvester
 is a superior source to a lithium battery . If your
 application's lifetime is 10 years or longer, a vibrational
 or a solar source is superior to any battery technology.
 Labor costs can add a prohibitive premium to the system's
 lifetime-ownership cost, so just changing the battery is
 not an option.

On the downside, systems relying on harvested energy must
 operate on a bare minimum of power. Wolfgang Heller, PhD,
 product-line manager for wireless-sensor manufacturer 
EnOcean, cautions against trying to design a wireless-sensor
 network separately from the power source. "We've had 
discussions with customers who have their own radio and
want to buy just the energy harvester. It always turns
 out that the radio they have consumes 100 or 1000 times
 more energy per bit transmitted than our design. It's
 not feasible to use these tiny energy harvesters with 
any other radio."


  
EnOcean offers network nodes that can receive power from
 several types of energy harvesters, including light-switch
 actuators, linear-motion converters, mechanical vibration,
 thermal gradients, and the sun. EnOcean's PTM 200 light-switch
 actuator integrates a relay with a magnet and a coil, so 
that moving the switch to turn the light on or off changes
 the flux through the coil, generating a voltage. The 
switch module wirelessly transmits the on/off command to
 the room light. This information is useful in a smart 
building (Reference 2). It also can drastically reduce
 the wiring labor costs for a building. When the room lights
 are all under a local wireless network, installing them does
 not require an electrician. Thermal-gradient-powered devices
 are candidates for industrial applications in which the 
production processes produce heat. Thermal-powered harvesters
 should become commercially available within six months.

Off the grid 
EnOcean also makes solar-powered STM100 network nodes. The
 modules have a two-section solar cell; one section is 
larger than the other. The smaller section charges a small
 capacitor that powers the sensor and RF circuitry during
 quick-start/wake-up mode. The larger section charges an 
ultracapacitor that powers the system during periods of 
darkness. Says Heller, "If we had only one solar-cell section,
 it would take hours to start up because the ultracapacitor
 needs more time to achieve the necessary voltage level. So,
 we power the quick-start mode with the smaller part of the
 solar cell, and then we achieve several days of operation 
in darkness."

EnOcean's solar-powered modules use a polycrystalline solar
 cell. Polycrystalline cells convert solar energy to electric
 power at an efficiency of 11 to 16% and are familiar sights
 on residential and industrial off-the-grid solar-panel systems.
 Another popular type of solar cell is amorphous silicon, but
 its efficiency is only 8%, or about half that of polycrystalline.
 Besides being less efficient, amorphous-silicon cells' conversion
 efficiency degrades 15 to 35% per year in direct sunlight.
 Despite these significant drawbacks, amorphous cells are popular
 because they cost about an order of magnitude less than 
polycrystalline cells÷a significant advantage in high-volume
 consumer

[Biofuel] was...Yahoo tutorial on podcasting

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi Joe,

Podcasting is so easy. It uses xml which is kind of a pared down version of html
You need to create a text xml file and have an mp3 file of your program.
You also have to have a server somewhere to host it so others can access it.
Here is the sample xml file from yahoo.

--

 
http://www.itunes.com/DTDs/Podcast-1.0.dtd 
xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/";>


 Title of your site  
 A description of your podcast show  
Your Name 
 http://www.yourserver.com/YourPodcastHomepage/  
http://www.yourserver.com/YourPodcastPicture.jpg"; />
 Sun, 09 Oct 2005 21:00:00 PST 
en-us 
 Copyright Year Your_Name  


  This is just a test  
  A description of your podcast episode  
  Your Name 
  Thu, 16 Jun 2005 5:00:00 PST  
 http://www.yourserver.com/podcast_file.mp3"; length=" 
3174554 " type="audio/mpeg" /> 
 



As you add new programs, you need to add another 

If the above code does not come through this email, send me a request off list 
and I will send you a plain text file.
Just remember to save it as an xml file  ie "your_podcast.xml" not 
"your_podcast.txt"


regards
tallex







Alternate Energy Resource Network
  1000+ news sources-resources
 updated daily
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>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Yahoo tutorial on podcasting
>  Sent: 26 Oct '05 16:00
>  
>  Hey Kirk;
>  
>  The instructions on page 3 say replace all the blue text with your
>  owninfo.  Trouble is no matter what browser I use, all the text is black!
>  I can make some guesses of course but might easily miss somethingbecause I
>  know squat about HTML coding. Have you published anything yet?
>  
>  Joe
>  
>  Kirk McLoren wrote:
>  
>  
>  [LINK: http://podcasts.yahoo.com/publish]
>  http://podcasts.yahoo.com/publish
>  
>  
>  Want to make your own podcasts? Here's how.
>  
>  
>  Kirk
>  

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[Biofuel] nanocrystal solar cells

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Abstract:
Berkeley Scientists Synthesize Cheap, Easy-to-Make Ultra-thin Photovoltaic 
Films 


Sunny Future for Nanocrystal Solar Cells
October 20, 2005 
Imagine a future in which the rooftops of residential
 homes and commercial buildings can be laminated with
 inexpensive, ultra-thin films of nano-sized semiconductors
 that will efficiently convert sunlight into electrical
 power and provide virtually all of our electricity needs. 
This future is a step closer to being realized, thanks to
 a scientific milestone achieved at the U.S. Department
 of Energy’s Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory 
(Berkeley Lab).

Researchers with Berkeley Lab and the University of
 California, Berkeley, have developed the first ultra-thin
 solar cells comprised entirely of inorganic nanocrystals
 and spin-cast from solution. These dual nanocrystal solar
 cells are as cheap and easy to make as solar cells made
 from organic polymers and offer the added advantage of
 being stable in air because they contain no organic 
materials.

“Our colloidal inorganic nanocrystals share all of the
 primary advantages of organics -- scalable and controlled
 synthesis, an ability to be processed in solution, and a
 decreased sensitivity to substitutional doping ­ while
 retaining the broadband absorption and superior transport
 properties of traditional photovoltaic semiconductors,”
 said Ilan Gur, a researcher in Berkeley Lab’s Materials
 Sciences Division and fourth-year graduate student in
 UC Berkeley’s Department of Materials Science and Engineering.

Gur is the principal author of a paper appearing in the
 October 21 issue of the journal Science that announces 
this new development. He is a doctoral candidate in the
 research group of Paul Alivisatos, director of Berkeley 
Lab’s Materials Sciences Division, and the Chancellor's 
Professor of Chemistry and Materials Science at UC Berkeley.
 Alivisatos is a leading authority on nanocrystals and a 
co-author of the Science paper. Other co-authors are 
Berkeley Lab’s Neil A. Fromer and UC Berkeley’s Michael
 Geier.

In this paper, the researchers describe a technique whereby
 rod-shaped nanometer-sized crystals of two semiconductors,
 cadmium-selenide (CdSe) and cadmium-telluride (CdTe), were
 synthesized separately and then dissolved in solution and
 spin-cast onto a conductive glass substrate. The resulting
 films, which were about 1,000 times thinner than a human
 hair, displayed efficiencies for converting sunlight to 
electricity of about 3 percent. This is comparable to the
 conversion efficiencies of the best organic solar cells,
 but still substantially lower than conventional silicon
 solar cell thin films.

“We obviously still have a long way to go in terms of
 energy conversion efficiency,” said Gur, “but our dual
 nanocrystal solar cells are ultra-thin and solution-processed,
 which means they retain the cost-reduction potential that
 has made organic cells so attractive vis-a-vis their 
conventional semiconductor counterparts.” 

As every consumer in this country is painfully aware, the
 costs of fossil fuels are rising. From escalating prices
 at gas pumps, to melting polar ice caps, the message is
 loud and clear: Alternative energy sources must be found.
 Solar energy is in many ways an ideal choice. As a source
 it is plentiful -­ the sun shines approximately 1,000 watts
 of energy per square meter of the planet's surface every 
day -­ and would last the lifetime of our planet. It would
 add no pollutants to the atmosphere, contribute nothing 
to global climate change, and is free. The cost comes in
 when solar energy is converted to electrical power.

Most commercial solar cells today are made from silicon.
 Like many conventional semiconductors, silicon offers 
excellent, well-established electronic properties. However,
 the use of silicon or other conventional semiconductors
 in photovoltaic devices has to date been limited by the
 high cost of production -- even the fabrication of the
simplest semiconductor cell is a complex process that has
 to take place under exactly controlled conditions, such
 as high vacuum and temperatures between 400 and 1,400 degrees
 Celsius.

When it was discovered, back in 1977, that a certain group
 of “conjugated” organic polymers could be made to conduct
 electricity, there was immediate interest in using these
 materials in photovoltaic devices. While it was shown that
 plastic solar cells could be made in bulk quantities for
 a few cents each, the efficiency by which these devices
 converted light into electricity has always been poor 
compared to the power conversion efficiencies of cells made
 from semiconductors. In 2002, Alivisatos and members of
 his research group announced a breakthrough in which they
 were able to fashion hybrid solar cells out of organic
 polymers and CdSe. While these hybrids offer some of the
 best features of semiconductor and plastic solar cells,
 they remain sensitive to air because they contain org

[Biofuel] what do you expect..was...Imagine if we could invent.....

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

What do you expect from an oil man puppet. It is pretty sad when
he is not even aware that grid-tied solar and net metering have been around for 
a few years now.
On a 'positive' note...at least he "sees" a positive trend in his imagination.
Yes, it is disgusting the energy gluttony that exists in the U.S.  compared to 
the rest of the world
and it doesn't have to be that way. "Darth" Cheney stated a few years ago that 
energy conservation may be a personal virtue but is not the basis for a sound 
energy policy. Well, coming from Mr Haliburton, that is no surprise.
A white house spokesperson (Ari Fleicher) when asked by a reporter if the 
president would consider increasing energy efficiency, improved fuel efficiency 
for vehicles and more sustainable development for America...in light of the 
fact that the U.S. uses so much energy compared to the rest of the world 
replied..."That's a big no. The president believes that it is the American way" 
(being energy hogs to support Mc mansions, Hummers, SUV's and an out of control 
unsustainable lifestyle)
Nothing has changed with the new energy (pork) bill. No incentives for 
increased fuel efficiency and gazillions
for big oil. Crumbs and lip service for alt. energy and an alledged hydrogen 
economy based on natural gas cracking and nuclear production of hydrogen that 
will still be controlled by big corps. The other energy bill package passed 
last week, doles out even more goodies to the dino dealers. 
He is basically giving the green light to oil and coal concerns to  drill where 
they want and pollute as much as they need to get more dirty 
energy...environmental and health concerns be damned.
Mean while cutting programs and funding for food stamp programs for the less 
fortunate, lunch programs for poor school children, health benefits for firemen 
who have become sick from working at ground zero (911), after school programs 
for poor childrenthe list goes on and on and on and on.
Oh, I forgot.. he also intends to cut geothermal, renewable energy and solar 
energy programs
from the DOE to continue to pay for the war and rebuilding New Orleans. 
Meanwhile he is adding further cuts to the army core of engineers for wet land 
reabilitation and flood controls, in addition to the previous cuts that he made 
a couple of years ago even though he was warned that levys and anti flooding 
measures needed to be urgently upgraded. The "preverbial angry white men" 
better get a grip on reality because it's not a pretty picture
for us, our children and future generations.



some further reading...pretty scary

The Heat Death of American Dreams

< http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/25351/ >

regards
tallex


>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems
>  Sent: 14 Oct '05 15:31
>  
>  Voter turnout is key.  Unfourtunately, a large pergentage of thoseturning
>  out are the proverbial "angry white male (or person)" who wishto preserve
>  the  unsustainable status quo.  That and the fact that theDemocrats have
>  been in disarray for years doesn't help.
>  
>  I did hear an interesting comment form an older acquiantance, whopointed
>  out that he'd heard all the doom and gloom in the 70's, andthen, it didn't
>  happen.  OPEC collapsed and energy prices went down.  Alot of people think
>  this is the same.  A blip.  Even so, that does notaddress the issues of
>  global warming,
>  basic energy inequality, the US, with not even 10% of the globalpoplation
>  consumes at least 25 - 30 % of the oil.  Mostly to sustainlife on a scale
>  unimaginable
>  for the rest of the world.
>  
>  I've spent enough time in the 3rd world to know the race is not for
>  abigger car or house, but for water, food, cooking energy and shelter. In
>  rural Africa it is not unusual to spent an hour or 2 just gettingwater,
>  then scrounging an already deforested land for fuel, thencooking an
>  incredibly time-consuming meal.  Making Fonio inGuinee/Senegal takes
>  forever.
>  
>  Moreover, here outside of DC where I live, you are a nut if youpractice
>  energy-concious living.  Everone in my cul de sac, with theexception of a
>  Puerto Rican family, howl at the use of a wood stove,complain about even
>  storing firewood, and have actually complainedabout my "SUV" an old
>  Trooper, which I use in my business.  I keep itbecause it is about the
>  only 4 cylinder 5sp truck of any size you canget.  Now they are all V6-V8
>  automatics.  It's slow, but it gets goodmileage, and can haul a lot.  But
>  it is old.  I only wish I could finda Diesel model, but they are rare as
>  hen's teeth.  I also only drive itto collect WVO, work supplies and to get
>  firewood (hence the 4 wheeldrive.  Otherwise I drive a VW Golf, mostly on
>  homebrew.  I'm a kook. I can't wait to see what happens when I set up some
>  solar heating and aPV panels!  The Civic League will attack!
>  
>  Viva la revolution!
> 

[Biofuel] efficiency boost for plastic solar cells

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Plastic solar cells get efficiency boost



Scientists have come up with a low-cost process that
improves the performance of polymer-based photovoltaics.

Researchers in the US have found a simple way of 
increasing the efficiency of polymer-based photovoltaics
(PVs) that could make harnessing solar energy more
cost-effective. Using a slow growth process, a 
University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) team
has fabricated polymer devices with a National
Renewable Energy Laboratory, US, certified power-conversion
efficiency of 4.4%. The team claims that this figure is
the highest published so far for polymer-based solar cells. 
(Nature Materials AOP)



Polymer solar cell 

"The most important step was to realize the effect of film
growth rate on device performance," UCLA's Yang Yang told 
Optics.org. "Ordering the polymer chains results in higher
absorption [of incident light] without increasing the 
parasitic series resistance of the device."

Sandwiched between a transparent indium tin oxide coated
anode and a deposited aluminium cathode, the PV film
consists of a spin-coated blended polymer. Yang and his
colleagues control the growth rate of the polymer layer,
which measures 210-230 nm in thickness, by varying the
time it takes for the initially wet film to solidify.

The researchers discovered that slow grown films, which 
take around 20 mins to form under ambient conditions, 
provide superior charge transport compared with polymers
processed more rapidly at higher temperatures. According
to the team, slow growth allows the polymer to self-organize,
a process that dramatically boosts device efficiency.

Simple and cost-effective to produce, polymer-based solar 
cells are an attractive solution for designers looking for
a renewable energy source, especially for large area 
applications. However, as Yang points out there are still
hurdles to overcome.

"Two of the biggest challenges that remain are device
lifetime and efficiency," he explained. "To enter large
scale commercialization, the device efficiency will have
to reach up to 15%, with a lifetime of up to 15-20 years."

The team expects to double the efficiency of its devices 
within a year and is keen to commercialize the technology.
Back in the lab, the group is now exploring a range of 
material systems to enhance carrier mobility and increase
absorption in the red region of the solar spectrum.

Author 
James Tyrrell 

< http://www.optics.org/articles/news/11/10/8/1 >




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[Biofuel] plastic solar cell update

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Plastic solar power
Group invents cells that could decrease cost of energy, if they last

By Natalie Banach
DAILY BRUIN SENIOR STAFF
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Harnessing the power of the largest celestial object
 in the universe is not just the stuff of science 
fiction - it may soon become an efficient way to power
 everything from cell phones to Las Vegas casinos. 

Showcasing their work in the most recent issue 
of "Nature Materials," professor of materials science
 and engineering Yang Yang, postdoctoral researcher
 Gang Li and graduate student Vishal Shrotriya have
 created a new type of solar cell that they say may 
revolutionize the way many think of solar power. 

In response to the world's growing dependency on natural
 gas and fossil fuels, solar power is being thought of
 as an attractive solution due in large part to the fact
 that the sun is the most abundant source of energy in
 the universe, Shrotriya said. 

The idea is enticing enough: Imagine being capable of
 easily capturing the sun's rays, translating them into
 power and creating a clean, environmentally-friendly
 energy source without any harmful by-products. 

In fact, an area slightly larger than the size of
 Maryland - 160 miles long by 160 miles wide - completely
 covered with solar panels could power all of the United
 States, Li said. Currently, solar power provides less 
than one percent of the world's energy. 

But before residents and industries begin installing solar
 panels onto their homes and businesses, there is at least
 one forboding obstacle - money. 

The cost of solar power per kilowatt is at least four times
 that of coal or natural gas. And while the price of solar 
cells is slowly decreasing, the solar module itself presents
 a huge barrier to making the energy source affordable. 

That is, until Yang and his research group came up with a
 new type of solar cell made of the same substance as a
 grocery store's plastic shopping bag. 

"The solar cell is similar to the material used to make
 those plastic bags, and those things can be very 
cheap," Li said. 

For the group's solar cell, Yang uses a special type of
 flexible polymer found in a variety of everyday plastics
 and equates the process of making his cell to painting a
wall or a house. 

A polymer, like a little bit of paint, can go a long way
 to covering a large wall. Yang and his team hope that 
their polymer material could be easily spread and coated
 onto a substrate. This coated substrate would generate
 electricity capable of powering anything that conventional
 power sources do today. 

About 90 percent of the current solar cell market is
 dominated by cell systems made from silicon, which
 unlike Yang's plastic cells are largely cost-ineffecient. 

The appearance of silicon is similar to a wafer in that
 a solar cells need to be put together piece by piece.
 The process is tedious, and silicon is in high demand
 for other uses. 

"The most popular use of silicon is to build computer 
chips. From one piece of silicon you can build a lot of
 computer chips, but it's not enough to even build one 
solar cell," Yang said. 

The high demand for silicon, the long refining process
 and limited supply all contribute to its high cost, 
which translates into expensive solar cells which many
 do not find feasible. 

Members of the UCLA research group say their plastic 
solar cells could be a unique solution to the barriers
 associated with using silicon cells, that is of course,
 if they can ensure a long lifetime for their product. 

The average conventional solar cell usually lasts for 20 
to 25 years, but the life expectancy for the group's 
plastic solar cell is decidedly lower. 

Due to the low lifetime of the UCLA group's plastic solar
 cells, the technology is now being looked at by industry
 experts in an attempt to lengthen it. The target for the
 plastic solar cell's lifespan is 15 to 20 years, and 
Yang said he hopes to commercialize his cell within three
 to five years. 

The goal is necessary, scientists at UCLA say, because as
 oil and gas prices rise to an all-time high and the 
United States becomes ever more dependent on these 
conventional energy sources, an affordable and efficient
 alternative could solve many problems. 

"We hope that ultimately solar energy can be extensively
 used in the commercial sector as well as the private 
sector ... there are such a wide variety of applications," Yang
 said in a UCLA press release.


http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/articles.asp?id=34416



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Re: [Biofuel] Google laugh

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

That is hilarious, thanks for the laugh,
regards
tallex

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  1000+ news sources-resources
 updated daily
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>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Garth & Kim Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: [Biofuel] Google laugh
>  Sent: 11 Oct '05 12:40
>  
>  Greetings,
>  This one gave me a good morning laugh, so I thought I would share.
>  Bright Blessings,
>  Kim
>  
>  
>  Go to google and type in_miserable failure _and hit the "I'm feeling lucky
>  button. Itis too funny to where it takes you!
>  
>  [LINK: http://www.google.com/] http://www.google.com/
>  
>  
>  ___
>  Biofuel mailing list
>  [LINK: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  [LINK:
>  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org]
>  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>  
>  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>  [LINK: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html]
>  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>  
>  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>  messages):
>  [LINK: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/]
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


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[Biofuel] oil price gouging poll

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

H, so in light of this poll, does anyone believe that the
oil co's, auto co's and politicos are going to
actually do anything about it, besides some feeble, feel good
conservation PR??

regards
tallex


Most Americans say oil companies are price gouging

Four out of five Americans would support "a tax on 
the windfall profits of oil companies" if the resulting
 revenues were devoted to alternative energy research,
 according to an Opinion Research Corp. (ORC) poll 
conducted for 40mpg.org and the Boston-based nonprofit
 and nonpartisan Civil Society Institute (CSI). 

CSI is a think tank and the 40mpg.org campaign is a 
project of CSI. 

Other key survey findings include: 87 percent of Americans
 think that oil companies are gouging gasoline consumers 
today; 81 percent say the federal government is not doing
 enough about high energy prices and America's overreliance
 on Middle Eastern oil; 73 percent believe that recent 
gasoline price hikes now make it more important that the
 federal government impose higher fuel-efficiency standards;
 and four out of five adults say that U.S. automakers should
 follow the same path as Toyota, which intends that "all of
 its new cars going forward will use fuel-saving hybrid 
technology." 

In response to the poll, 40mpg.org has launched an online
 petition at www.40mpg.org allowing Americans to tell their
 members of Congress and the White House that they want 
major steps taken in terms of a windfall profits tax on
 oil companies and tougher fuel-efficiency standards on
 vehicles. 

CSI president Pam Solo said: "Americans have seen too much
 price gouging and too little action from Washington on 
energy prices, fuel-efficient vehicles and our dangerous
 reliance on foreign oil. The benefits of making 40 miles
 per gallon the standard for all autos in the United States
 are obvious to Americans: consumers save money; we reduce
 our dangerous reliance on Middle Eastern oil, making us
more secure in the world; air pollution is reduced; and 
we can cut the U.S. contribution to global warming by nearly
 a third. Greater fuel efficiency makes sense, it is 
technologically possible, the benefits are real and the
 challenges can be overcome." 

Some key highlights of the poll are: 

+ Price gouging. Some 87 percent think "big oil companies
 are currently gouging consumers at the gas pump," with 57
 percent saying there is a "great deal" of such price gouging
 going on. Fewer than 4 percent say "no price gouging is 
going on." Political affiliation makes almost no difference
 in how Americans respond to this question with 87 percent
 of independents, 82 percent of Republicans and 91 percent
 of Democrats saying there is a "great deal" or "some" price
 gouging going on. 

+ Windfall profits tax on oil companies. Seventy-nine percent
 would "support a tax on the windfall profits of oil companies"
 if the resulting revenues were spent on "research on alternative
 energy." Support for targeting windfall profits tax revenues
 to underwrite alternative energy research was higher than two
 other listed alternatives: "wetlands restoration in Gulf Coast
 states to minimize the impact of future hurricanes" (70 percent);
 and "a direct rebate to each consumer with a driver's license"
 (53 percent). 

+ Federal inaction. Four out of five think "the federal government
 is not doing enough about high energy prices and the U.S. 
dependence on Middle Eastern energy sources." Political 
affiliation was somewhat more evident as a factor in the
 responses to this question, with 83 percent of independents,
 74 percent of Republicans and 90 percent of Democrats expressing
 dissatisfaction with current federal policies 

+ Higher fuel-efficiency standards. Seventy-three percent 
think that recent gasoline price hikes now make it "much more"
 or "somewhat more" important "that the federal government takes
 new steps to require higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars
 and other vehicles." 

+ Hybrid technology. Four out of five Americans think that 
"U.S. automakers should follow the same path" as Toyota, 
which "has announced that all of its new cars going forward
 will use fuel-saving hybrid technology." 

Survey results are based on telephone interviews conducted
 among a sample of 1,019 adults age 18 and up living in 
private households in the continental United States. 
Interviewing was completed by Opinion Research Corp. during
 the period of Sept. 15-19. The margin of error is plus or
 minus 3 percentage points for the complete sample of 1,019 
adults. Smaller sub-groups will have larger error margins. s

http://www.fairfieldcbj.com/current_issue/101005frop07.html



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[Biofuel] rapid prototyping and computer contour crafting

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

rapid prototyping and computer contour crafting



NSF-Supported Researcher Builds The Most Historic Wall Since the Great Wall of 
China
< http://www.nsf.gov/eng/engnews/2004/Khoshneviscrafting.jsp >


A robot developed with NSF support has built the first wall ever 
constructed entirely by machine, with no use of human hands. 
Measuring about 5 feet long, 3 feet high, and 6 inches thick, 
the wall was constructed in January 2004 in the University of
 Southern California lab of Behrokh Khoshnevis, Professor of
 Industrial & Systems Engineering. Khoshnevis, who calls his 
creation “the most historic wall since the Great Wall of China,
” believes that by the end of 2005, his robots will be able to 
construct a one-story, 2,000-square foot home on site in a single day. 


 
Professor Khoshnevis and graduate student Dooil Hwang with the
 robot they developed for automated construction of walls and
buildings.  
Khoshnevis’ pioneering efforts to automate the building process
 are based on a technology known as Contour Crafting, a layered
 fabrication process controlled by computer. The idea came to
 him while repairing cracks in his Los Angeles home following
 a 1994 earthquake. After 7 years of research and development, 
Khoshnevis has created a robot that can build large structures 
by extruding semi-liquid material from a pump in inch-thick 
layers to form the outside edges of an object, such as the wall
 of a building. The robot moves back and forth along a gantry 
installed at the construction site to deposit each layer of the
 wall. After the exterior layers have been laid down, the robot 
returns to pour concrete or other filler material into the hollow
 wall. In effect, this technology will enable homes and other 
structures to be “printed out” from computer design software, 
much as ink jet printers produce documents from word processing
 software. 

One key advantage of using Contour Crafting for automated building
 is its ability to make structures of virtually any geometry 
without the costly, time-consuming steps involved in making molds
 for manual construction of curved surfaces. “After a 20,000-year
 history, the process of constructing buildings is about to be
 revolutionized,” says Khoshnevis. “This technology will allow
 architects, for the first time, to design buildings of any 
shape and configuration that can be constructed at no more 
expense than a structure with conventional, right-angled walls.”


 
Diagram of construction of conventional building using 
Contour Crafting. 
 
Khoshnevis also points to important environmental advantages
 associated with automated construction. Since Contour Crafting
 technology can build in 1 day what now takes 6 to 9 months of 
manual construction, it will dramatically reduce the need for 
workers to commute to building sites, thus easing pressure on 
congested transport systems and cutting transport-related air 
pollution. The technology produces little or no material waste,
 potentially reducing construction-related waste by 3 to 7 tons
 for each single-family house built using automated techniques.
 Moreover, construction materials can be chosen for their
 environmental characteristics, such as materials that reduce
 waste and promote recycling, and Khoshnevis is partnering with
 Degussa AG, the world’s largest manufacturer and supplier of
 building materials, to develop the best material for use in
 automated construction. Contour Crafting technology can also
 produce very sophisticated walls with highly-insulating designs
 and materials. 

“This research promises to usher in a new era in construction.
 Its strong point is the use of new materials and new information
 technologies to create the next generation of buildings,” notes
 Perumalsamy Balaguru, Program Director for Structural Systems and
 Engineering, Division of Civil and Mechanical Systems, in NSF’s
 Engineering Directorate. The first commercial-scale applications
 of automated construction technologies are likely to be for
 building emergency shelters and low-income housing, followed
 by general residential construction, especially homes with exotic
 architecture featuring complex curves and other geometries that
 are expensive to build using manual methods. 

Khoshnevis also plans to explore the applicability of Contour 
Crafting technology for building extraterrestrial habitats. One
 of the very few feasible approaches for building structures on
 the Moon or Mars, Contour Crafting technology would have to be
 adapted to use lava paste created from dust on the lunar or
 Mars surface as a building material and researchers will have
 to develop greater understanding of how the technology would
 perform under partial-gravity conditions. 

For more information, contact Behrokh Khoshnevis at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], (213) 740-4889. Animations of the Contour
 Crafting process may be viewed at www-rcf.usc.edu/~khoshnev. 

See also related NSF ENG News articles on layered fabrication 
processes, incl

[Biofuel] power from the sunbaked desert

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Power From The Sunbaked Desert 
Solar generators may be a hot source of plentiful electricity 

Before President George W. Bush signed the federal energy bill into law on Aug. 
8, he got a firsthand glimpse of a technology that could transform the deserts 
of the Southwest. Instead of a sandy wasteland, there would be gleaming farms 
with thousands of giant dish-shaped mirrors measuring 37 feet in diameter. Each 
dish would track the sun and focus its heat rays on an oil-barrel-size 
contraption suspended out in front, harnessing the heat to drive a 25-kilowatt 
generator. 

Plant enough of these solar-dish farms, Bush learned on his tour of Sandia 
National Laboratories' National Solar Thermal Test Facility near Albuquerque, 
and they could mightily reduce the need for electric power plants that burn 
fossil fuels and emit carbon dioxide.

MOJAVE MEGAWATTS 
The day after the Presidential tour, Sandia's vision began to look a lot more 
real. The supplier of the solar-thermal dish generators, Stirling Energy 
Systems Inc. in Phoenix, won a major commitment from Southern California Edison 
Inc. (EIX ) (SCE): For 20 years the utility will buy all the electricity that 
Stirling Energy can generate at a 500-megawatt solar energy farm that Stirling 
will build in the Mojave Desert near Victorville, Calif. This could be the 
biggest solar installation in the world -- equal to a typical coal-fired plant. 
And if local power lines can be upgraded to handle more juice, Stirling could 
enlarge the facility to 850 MW -- and SCE would take all of that, too.

Stirling's deal was made possible by several trends that are pushing 
alternative energy into the mainstream. As oil has become more expensive, so 
have natural gas and coal, the primary fuels for power plants. At the same 
time, concerns about global warming have prompted lawmakers -- local, state, 
and now the feds -- to unleash incentives for renewable energy. Wind power, 
solar energy, geothermal, and biomass fuels are all benefiting.

If the dishes do well, Stirling Energy's 4,500-acre desert farm will usher in 
new potential for Stirling engines, invented in 1816 by Church of Scotland 
minister Robert Stirling. His engine is ideal for green energy because it 
doesn't burn fuel internally. Instead, its pistons are driven by heating and 
expanding a reservoir of gas, which then cools for the next cycle. Using the 
sun's energy to heat the gas means zero fuel is burned.

Stirling Energy stands to rake in upwards of $90 million a year once the solar 
dishes are generating 500 MW in 2011. For SCE, already the largest purchaser of 
renewable energy in the U.S., the extra 500 MW will more than double the 354 MW 
of solar power it tapped in 2004 from nine other solar-thermal operations in 
the Mojave. It will also add almost 20% to SCE's 2,588 MW of renewable energy 
sources, including 1,021 MW of wind power. Last year more than 18% of the 
electricity that the utility delivered to its customers came from renewables.

Monster dish-shaped "heat antennas" are hardly familiar icons of green power. 
People tend to associate solar energy with flat, glassy panels that convert 
photons from sunlight into electric current. But such photovoltaic cells don't 
produce power as efficiently as Stirling dish generators. Cells typically 
convert just 10% to 15% of the sun's light -- and many cells perform at just 
half that level. In contrast, Stirling dishes achieve almost 30% in Sandia's 
six-dish system. "Later this year we'll do even better," declares D. Bruce 
Osborn, Stirling Energy's new CEO and a longtime solar proponent.

DAYTIME ONLY 
Why hasn't Stirling Energy's technology made more of a splash in the power 
business? "Our dilemma has always been how to get costs down," explains Osborn. 
The dish assemblies now run $250,000 each. But that's because most have been 
handcrafted in sporadic lots of one or two units. Building a group of 40 or so 
would trim the cost to $150,000 each, Osborn estimates. With real mass 
production, that could drop by 50%.

So when SCE said it wanted to buy more renewable energy, Osborn's outfit 
proposed the 500 MW project as the means of moving beyond its chicken-or-egg 
impasse. Producing that much electricity will require 20,000 dishes, built in a 
steadily increasing flow over several years. "We're ramping up now," says 
Osborn.

He expects to have 40 dishes in place for a 1 MW facility by the end of next 
year, followed by 50 MW in 2008. The electricity will be delivered only when 
the sun is shining, but that's when the utility's customers place peak demands 
on electricity. "Our system is a really good match, providing peak power at 
times of peak load," notes Osborn.

The price per kilowatt-hour (kWh) that SCE will pay is confidential and must be 
approved by the California Public Utilities Commission. But there's little 
doubt that the contract will get a thu

Re: [Biofuel] the power of spin - harnessing artificial tornadoes as an energy source

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

My real name is Keith but if I used it in this list, it
would cause some confusion would it not?


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  1000+ news sources-resources
 updated daily
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>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] the power of spin - harnessing artificial tornadoes 
> as an energy source
>  Sent: 29 Sep '05 21:27
>  
>  Alt.EnergyNetwork: (Is that your real name?)
>  
>  Funny this is exactly what I proposed to Jason just a few days ago under
>  a thread called Solar Air Cleaner. Jason proposed using a solar chimney
>  to pull dirty city air through filters and I asked him if he considered
>  using baffles to admit air tangentially and also mentioned adiabatic
>  cooling and the heat of vaporization of water as an accelerator to the
>  convective process. This was just a couple of days ago. Too weird!
>  
>  Joe
>  
>  Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote:
>  
>  >Hi all,
>  >This is an interesting idea,
>  >regards
>  >tallex
>  >
>  >The power of spin
>  >
>  >Sep 29th 2005
>  >>From The Economist print edition
>  >
>  >< http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4455446 >
>  >
>  >Harnessing artificial tornadoes as an energy source
>  >
>  >WEATHER systems, as the world has recently been reminded,
>  >have awesome power. The energy released by a large
>  >hurricane can exceed the energy consumption of the
>  >human race for a whole year, and even an average
>  >tornado has a power similar to that of a large power
>  >station. If only mankind could harness that energy,
>  >rather than being at its mercy. Louis Michaud, a
>  >Canadian engineer who works at a large oil company,
>  >believes he has devised a way to do just that, by
>  >generating artificial whirlwinds that can be controlled
>  >and harnessed. He calls his invention the
>  >“atmospheric vortex engine”.
>  >
>  >His idea works on a similar principle to a solar chimney,
>  >which consists of a tall, hollow cylinder surrounded by
>  >a large greenhouse. The sun heats the air in the
>  >greenhouse, and the hot air rises. But its only escape
>  >route is via the chimney. A turbine at the base of
>  >the chimney generates electricity as the air rushes
>  >by. A small solar chimney was operated successfully
>  >in Spain in the 1980s, and EnviroMission, an Australian
>  >firm, is planning to build a 1,000-metre-high example
>  >in New South Wales. But the efficiency of such a system
>  >is proportional to the height of the chimney, notes
>  >Mr Michaud, which is limited by practical considerations.
>  >His scheme replaces the chimney with a tornado-like
>  >vortex of spinning air, which could extend several
>  >kilometres into the atmosphere.
>  >
>  >
>  >This vortex would be produced inside a large cylindrical
>  >wall, 200 metres in diameter and 100 metres tall. Warm
>  >air at ground level enters via tangential inlets around
>  >the base of the wall. Steam is also injected to get the
>  >vortex started. Once established, the heat content of
>  >the air at ground level is enough to keep the vortex
>  >going. As the air rises, it expands and cools, and
>  >water vapour condenses, releasing even more heat. This
>  >is, in fact, what powers a hurricane, which can be
>  >thought of as a heat engine that takes in warm, humid
>  >air at its base, releases cold, watery air at the top
>  >of the troposphere, about 12 kilometres up, and liberates
>  >a vast amount of energy in the process. (Just as water
>  >requires heat to make it boil, it releases heat as it
>  >condenses back into a liquid.)
>  >
>  >Mr Michaud's vortex would reach a similar height to that of a
>  >hurricane, but its base would remain stationary. The intensity
>  >of the vortex would be controlled by closing the inlets around
>  >the base, or by opening another set of inlets to inject air in
>  >the opposite direction and so slow the vortex's rotation. And,
>  >of course, there would be a set of turbines at the base of
>  >the vortex that would allow its energy to be harnessed as air
>  >rushed through the inlets. Mr Michaud estimates that an atmospheric
>  >vortex engine with a diameter of 200 metres would produce around
>  >200 megawatts of power.
>  >
>  >Yes, but would it actually work? And if it did, could the resulting
>  >vortex really be controlled? Mr Michaud admits that the word “tornado”
>  >tends to worry people. This summer, 

[Biofuel] the power of spin - harnessing artificial tornadoes as an energy source

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi all,
This is an interesting idea,
regards
tallex

The power of spin

Sep 29th 2005 
>From The Economist print edition

< http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4455446 >

Harnessing artificial tornadoes as an energy source

WEATHER systems, as the world has recently been reminded,
have awesome power. The energy released by a large
hurricane can exceed the energy consumption of the
human race for a whole year, and even an average
tornado has a power similar to that of a large power
station. If only mankind could harness that energy,
rather than being at its mercy. Louis Michaud, a 
Canadian engineer who works at a large oil company,
believes he has devised a way to do just that, by
generating artificial whirlwinds that can be controlled
and harnessed. He calls his invention the 
“atmospheric vortex engine”.

His idea works on a similar principle to a solar chimney,
which consists of a tall, hollow cylinder surrounded by 
a large greenhouse. The sun heats the air in the 
greenhouse, and the hot air rises. But its only escape
route is via the chimney. A turbine at the base of
the chimney generates electricity as the air rushes
by. A small solar chimney was operated successfully 
in Spain in the 1980s, and EnviroMission, an Australian
firm, is planning to build a 1,000-metre-high example
in New South Wales. But the efficiency of such a system
is proportional to the height of the chimney, notes 
Mr Michaud, which is limited by practical considerations. 
His scheme replaces the chimney with a tornado-like 
vortex of spinning air, which could extend several 
kilometres into the atmosphere.

 
This vortex would be produced inside a large cylindrical
wall, 200 metres in diameter and 100 metres tall. Warm 
air at ground level enters via tangential inlets around
the base of the wall. Steam is also injected to get the
vortex started. Once established, the heat content of 
the air at ground level is enough to keep the vortex
going. As the air rises, it expands and cools, and 
water vapour condenses, releasing even more heat. This
is, in fact, what powers a hurricane, which can be 
thought of as a heat engine that takes in warm, humid
air at its base, releases cold, watery air at the top 
of the troposphere, about 12 kilometres up, and liberates
a vast amount of energy in the process. (Just as water
requires heat to make it boil, it releases heat as it
condenses back into a liquid.)

Mr Michaud's vortex would reach a similar height to that of a
hurricane, but its base would remain stationary. The intensity
of the vortex would be controlled by closing the inlets around 
the base, or by opening another set of inlets to inject air in
the opposite direction and so slow the vortex's rotation. And,
of course, there would be a set of turbines at the base of 
the vortex that would allow its energy to be harnessed as air 
rushed through the inlets. Mr Michaud estimates that an atmospheric
vortex engine with a diameter of 200 metres would produce around
200 megawatts of power.

Yes, but would it actually work? And if it did, could the resulting
vortex really be controlled? Mr Michaud admits that the word “tornado”
tends to worry people. This summer, 30 years after he had the original
idea, and having failed to convince his employer or any other energy 
firm to take it on, he began tests at a site in Utah, with a cylindrical
wall 10 metres in diameter. His initial aim is to demonstrate that 
artificial vortices can indeed be created and controlled. The next
phase, he says, would be to modify a cooling tower at an existing 
power station so that it uses a spinning vortex rather than the 
usual large fans to generate the necessary airflow within. The 
final step would be to add turbines to extract energy from the
vortex.

Besides the engineering challenges involved, Mr Michaud must navigate
the cultural divide between atmospheric scientists and the weather-modification 
community. The scientists regard the weather-modification crowd as cranks.
They, in turn, cannot understand why the scientists are not taking a more 
hands-on, experimental approach to understanding the weather, rather than
simply observing and modelling it. Mr Michaud has published nine papers 
in atmospheric-science and meteorology journals, and says his invention 
relies on principles that are consistent with scientists' current 
understanding of how natural weather systems work. So much for the theory.
Now he must demonstrate that it works in practice. 


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[Biofuel] experimental turbine

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi all,

This experimental turbine design was submitted to me
for comments from the list. The inventor has obiously spent
a great deal of effort in developing the idea and has
received quite a deal of publicity in Mexico where he
lives. I am still studying the plans and have not made
any final conclusion as to it's viability yet.


Experimental turbine

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/carlos_turbine05.html >

Cool animation though,
regards
tallex





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[Biofuel] windfall tax on big oil

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll - U.S. drivers cry foul and support 
oil-company tax

http://tinyurl.com/8m6pp


Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll
U.S. drivers cry foul and support oil-company tax


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- A majority of Americans
are convinced they're being gouged at the gas pump, 
and many support a tax on oil companies' profits to 
fund research into alternative energy sources, according
to a new survey.

Eighty-seven percent of U.S. consumers said oil companies
are gouging them on gas prices, according to the telephone
survey of 1,019 adults in mid-September by Opinion Research
Corp. for the Civil Society Institute, a Newton Centre, 
Mass.-based non-profit advocacy group. 

The Institute, funded by donations and foundation grants,
supports a variety of initiatives, including 40mpg.org,
which aims to make 40 miles per gallon the standard for 
all U.S. cars.

Another 7% said very little price gouging is going
 on, 4% said it's not happening at all, and 3% weren't
 sure. The survey has a margin of error of plus, or minus,
 3 percentage points at a 95% confidence level.

The belief in price gouging was consistent across party 
lines, with 82% of Republicans pointing to "some" or 
"a great deal" of price gouging, 91% of Democrats doing 
so, and 87% of independents.

Many consumers appear ready to gouge right back: 79% of
 those surveyed said they support a tax on oil company's
 profits if the money collected goes to research on 
alternative energy sources.

That sentiment crossed political lines to a large extent,
 with 83% of Democrats, 76% of Republicans and 81% of 
independents supporting such a tax to fuel research on
 alternative energy sources.

But there was less overall support for such a tax to fund
 other initiatives: Just 53% of the respondents support
 a tax on oil company profits to fund a direct rebate to
 U.S. drivers, while 70% support the tax to fund wetlands
 restoration in the Gulf Coast to lessen damage from future
 hurricanes. (The survey offered only those three possible
 purposes for the hypothetical tax revenues.)

Confluence of factors

Consumers' cry of price gouging, and apparent willingness
 to embrace alternative energy sources appears sparked by
 a confluence of factors, said Pam Solo, president and 
founder of the Civil Society Institute, in a telephone 
press conference.

"There are several strains of concern converging for people,"
 she said, including steeply higher gas prices, the U.S.'s 
reliance on foreign oil, and global warming.

"Americans have seen ... too little action from Washington
 on energy prices, fuel-efficient vehicles and the dangers 
of too much reliance on foreign oil," Solo said.

And oil company profits aren't helping consumers feel warm
 and fuzzy, she said. "We all know somebody is getting quite
 wealthy over the dilemmas and troubles we're facing as a 
country," she said. "We should be able to share in those profits
 as a society to have greater control of our destiny as a country."

Meanwhile, 81% of those surveyed agreed with the statement that
 the federal government isn't doing enough about high energy prices
 and U.S. dependence on Middle Eastern energy sources.

Broken down across political parties: 74% of Republicans agreed 
the federal government isn't doing enough, as did 90% of Democrats
 and 83% of independents.

Let's go hybrid

When asked whether domestic car makers should follow Toyota's lead
 by including hybrid technology in all new cars going forward, 80% 
of consumers agreed, according to the survey.

Eighty-six percent of Democrats agreed domestic makers should focus
 on hybrid technology, as did 73% of Republicans, and 80% of Independents.

The visible success of hybrid cars may be leading more consumers 
to see alternative technologies as one part of a solution to the
 problem of high gas prices, Solo and her colleagues at the Institute said.

Support for hybrid technology was strongest in the West, with 87%
 of consumers saying car makers should pursue all-hybrid fleets, 
compared with 82% in the Northeast, 79% in the Midwest, and 77% 
in the South.

Some consumers also support the idea of higher fuel-efficiency 
standards for regular cars, with 48% of those surveyed saying 
recent gas price hikes make it "much more important" that the 
federal government take steps to require higher fuel-efficiency
 standards.

Twenty-four percent said gas costs make it "somewhat more 
important" that the government address fuel-efficiency 
standards, but 19% said higher gas prices should have no
 effect on the government's approach to fuel efficiency 
standards, according to the survey.
 

Andrea Coombes is a reporter for MarketWatch in San Francisco. 





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[Biofuel] Big oil windfall tax

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

A windfall tax on big oil's excessive profits is a great idea. France is 
already doing it.
Imagine the great strides that we could make with implimenting
alternative energy technologies mainstream if such a tax was a reality.
Although it will probably be a cold day in hell before Bush and
Mr. no bid Haliburton Cheney let this happen,

regards
tallex


Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll - U.S. drivers cry foul and support 
oil-company tax

http://tinyurl.com/8m6pp


Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll
U.S. drivers cry foul and support oil-company tax


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- A majority of Americans
are convinced they're being gouged at the gas pump, 
and many support a tax on oil companies' profits to 
fund research into alternative energy sources, according
to a new survey.

Eighty-seven percent of U.S. consumers said oil companies
are gouging them on gas prices, according to the telephone
survey of 1,019 adults in mid-September by Opinion Research
Corp. for the Civil Society Institute, a Newton Centre, 
Mass.-based non-profit advocacy group. 

The Institute, funded by donations and foundation grants,
supports a variety of initiatives, including 40mpg.org,
which aims to make 40 miles per gallon the standard for 
all U.S. cars.

Another 7% said very little price gouging is going
 on, 4% said it's not happening at all, and 3% weren't
 sure. The survey has a margin of error of plus, or minus,
 3 percentage points at a 95% confidence level.

The belief in price gouging was consistent across party 
lines, with 82% of Republicans pointing to "some" or 
"a great deal" of price gouging, 91% of Democrats doing 
so, and 87% of independents.

Many consumers appear ready to gouge right back: 79% of
 those surveyed said they support a tax on oil company's
 profits if the money collected goes to research on 
alternative energy sources.

That sentiment crossed political lines to a large extent,
 with 83% of Democrats, 76% of Republicans and 81% of 
independents supporting such a tax to fuel research on
 alternative energy sources.

But there was less overall support for such a tax to fund
 other initiatives: Just 53% of the respondents support
 a tax on oil company profits to fund a direct rebate to
 U.S. drivers, while 70% support the tax to fund wetlands
 restoration in the Gulf Coast to lessen damage from future
 hurricanes. (The survey offered only those three possible
 purposes for the hypothetical tax revenues.)

Confluence of factors

Consumers' cry of price gouging, and apparent willingness
 to embrace alternative energy sources appears sparked by
 a confluence of factors, said Pam Solo, president and 
founder of the Civil Society Institute, in a telephone 
press conference.

"There are several strains of concern converging for people,"
 she said, including steeply higher gas prices, the U.S.'s 
reliance on foreign oil, and global warming.

"Americans have seen ... too little action from Washington
 on energy prices, fuel-efficient vehicles and the dangers 
of too much reliance on foreign oil," Solo said.

And oil company profits aren't helping consumers feel warm
 and fuzzy, she said. "We all know somebody is getting quite
 wealthy over the dilemmas and troubles we're facing as a 
country," she said. "We should be able to share in those profits
 as a society to have greater control of our destiny as a country."

Meanwhile, 81% of those surveyed agreed with the statement that
 the federal government isn't doing enough about high energy prices
 and U.S. dependence on Middle Eastern energy sources.

Broken down across political parties: 74% of Republicans agreed 
the federal government isn't doing enough, as did 90% of Democrats
 and 83% of independents.

Let's go hybrid

When asked whether domestic car makers should follow Toyota's lead
 by including hybrid technology in all new cars going forward, 80% 
of consumers agreed, according to the survey.

Eighty-six percent of Democrats agreed domestic makers should focus
 on hybrid technology, as did 73% of Republicans, and 80% of Independents.

The visible success of hybrid cars may be leading more consumers 
to see alternative technologies as one part of a solution to the
 problem of high gas prices, Solo and her colleagues at the Institute said.

Support for hybrid technology was strongest in the West, with 87%
 of consumers saying car makers should pursue all-hybrid fleets, 
compared with 82% in the Northeast, 79% in the Midwest, and 77% 
in the South.

Some consumers also support the idea of higher fuel-efficiency 
standards for regular cars, with 48% of those surveyed saying 
recent gas price hikes make it "much more important" that the 
federal government take steps to require higher fuel-efficiency
 standards.

Twenty-four percent said gas costs make it "somewhat more 
important" that the government address fuel-efficiency 
standards, but 19% said higher gas prices should have no
 effect on the government's approach to fuel efficiency 
standards, ac

[Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hello all,


Just what exactly is it going to take to make sceptics believe that
global warming is real and a very serious problem?


< http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2005/09/23/2003272851 >

Ignore science at your peril


< http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/092005/09232005/128653 >

Time to stop mainlining petroleum before it kills us





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Re: [Biofuel] global warming "tipping point"

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hello,
Why not discuss the story and implications right here.
This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference. 

Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil 
fuel suppliers
won't win in the long run if we face them head on.
We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our past energy 
gluttony
and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into this 
mess
and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a viable 
future for the planet.


regards
tallex







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>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: [Biofuel] global warming "tipping point"
>  Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44
>  
>  [0]mad_goldfish writes "The UK's Independent is running a front page
>  story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming is now
>  unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the arctic."
>  From the article: "The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached a
>  'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss of
>  sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which will
>  raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic have
>  found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its lowest
>  monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent below the
>  long-term average." Either way, [2]someone wins a bet.
>  
>  Discuss this story at:
>  http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216
>  
>  Links:
>  0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com
>  1.
>  http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece
>  2. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247&tid=126
>  
>  
>  
>  Yahoo! for Good
>  [LINK: http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/] Click here to donate to
>  the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>  
>  ___
>  Biofuel mailing list
>  [LINK: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>  [LINK:
>  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org]
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>  
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>  [LINK: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html]
>  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>  
>  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>  messages):
>  [LINK: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/]
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

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[Biofuel] organic photovoltaic devices

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi all,
there is some interesting info here.

Organic Photovoltaic Devices - Use Of Nanomaterials in Organic Photovoltaic 
Devices

< http://www.azonano.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=1400 >




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[Biofuel] hydrogen tablet

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Scientists at the Technical University of
 Denmark have invented a technology which may
 be an important step towards the hydrogen economy:
 a hydrogen tablet that effectively stores hydrogen
 in an inexpensive and safe material
 ..innovationsreport.de




 This is a very interesting development


  
http://www.innovationsreport.de/html/berichte/energie_elektrotechnik/bericht-48872.html

 http://tinyurl.com/auxo6


regards
 tallex









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Re: [Biofuel] How New Orleans Was Lost

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Big deal,
He cut 2 days off his vacation to do this
...all for the cameras. As noted by others below, he was the one who
 cut army core of engineers budget
for urgent repair on sinking dykes and improvements to flood control systems.

He is the one who continues to distort sound science, the problems
of global warming and weakening the environmental protection act.
As mentioned by others as well, he is the one who has troops, vital
 rescue equipment in Iraq when needed here NOW.
The lack of a well planned rapid advanced response to this disaster is a shame.
There are many hard questions that will need answers in the months to come.



regards
tallex

Alternate Energy Resource Network
  1000+ news sources-resources
 updated daily
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---Original Message---
> From: Greg and April <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How New Orleans Was Lost
> Sent: 03 Sep '05 03:33
> 
>  He spent the day on the ground today, walking parts of New Orleans, and
>  Mississippi.
>  
>  Just like 9/11, it was a few days after it happened.
>  
>  Greg H.
>  
>  
>  - Original Message -
>  From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: 
>  Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 20:45
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How New Orleans Was Lost
>  
>  
>  Thanks.
>  
>  I personally can't believe all he did was fly by in his jet and look
>  down.  This is a catastrophe far worse than 9/11 and all he does is a
>  fly by?
>  I can't even get started on Iraq because I don't want to get wound up
>  right now.
>  
>  Hakan Falk wrote:
>  
>  >Mike,
>  >
>  >LOL, you did a very good joke, I liked it.
>  >
>  >Hakan
>  >
>  >At 16:53 02/09/2005, you wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  >>Whine whine.  At least he caught Osama Bin Laden, just like he promised.
>  >>
>  >>Hakan Falk wrote:
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>>Taryn,
>  >>>
>  >>>You must admit that he killed many more in Iraq for the money,
>  >>>he is responsible for those death also, maybe he call that
>  >>>efficiency instead. More killed for the money. I can guarantee
>  >>>that the pictures of devastated people that we now see from
>  >>>Orleans, have been going on for many years in Iraq. So it is
>  >>>not only Bush fault, he only raised the bar and achieved much
>  >>>more in shorter time frame.
>  >>>
>  >>>When media show the desperation among the Iraqi people, it
>  >>>is not many who cares, maybe Orleans will create more of
>  >>>compassion for the country that US occupy. The homes that
>  >>>are destroyed and people killed in Iraq, are 100's times more
>  >>>than Orleans.
>  >>>
>  >>>Hakan
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>At 08:38 02/09/2005, you wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  Wow, nice catch Bede, Fits right in with "is there blame?"
>  
>  I just love to blame stuff on Bush and his cronies. Except...I'm not
>  sure that all the kings men could have put Orleans together again.
>  
>  Certainly, having pissed away the country's emergency resources, Bush
>  is responsible for many of the deaths in La and Ms. Kinda like stupid
>  kids who empty the fire extinguishers in school.  But I think Katrina,
>  and years of head-in-the-sand development is what drowned Orleans.
>  
>  taryn
>  http://ornae.com/
>  
>  On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:16 PM, Bede wrote:
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  >http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10062.htm
>  >
>  >
>  >How New Orleans Was Lost
>  >
>  >By Paul Craig Roberts
>  >
>  >09/01/05 "Antiwar" -- -- Chalk up the city of New Orleans as a cost of
>  >Bush's Iraq war.
>  >
>  >There were not enough helicopters to repair the breached levees and
>  >rescue
>  >people trapped by rising water. Nor are there enough Louisiana National
>  >Guardsmen available to help with rescue efforts and to patrol against
>  >looting.
>  >
>  >The situation is the same in Mississippi.
>  >
>  >The National Guard and helicopters are off on a fool's mission in Iraq.
>  >
>  >The National Guard is in Iraq because fanatical neoconservatives in
>  >the Bush
>  >administration were determined to invade the Middle East and because
>  >incompetent Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld refused to listen to the
>  >generals,
>  >who told him there were not enough regular troops available to do the
>  >job.
>  >
>  >After the invasion, the arrogant Rumsfeld found out that the generals
>  >were
>  >right. The National Guard was called up to fill in the gaping gaps.
>  >
>  >Now the Guardsmen, trapped in the Iraqi quagmire, are watching on TV
>  >the
>  >families they left behind trapped by rising waters and wondering if the
>  >floating bodies are family members. None know where their dislocated
>  >families are, but, shades of Fallujah, they do see their destroyed
>  >homes.
>  >
>  >The mayor of New Orleans was counting on helicop

Re: [Biofuel] Canadian help not allowed to fly in

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

I have been following all the reports on CTV, CBC and BBC.
Canada has the DART system that was used in the tsunami in Asia
and is ready to be shipped to the disaster areas along with specialized
teams and resources. Canadian hydro crews and all sorts of supplies
and offers of help have been expressed by Canadian politicians.

I have heard nothing on CTV, CBC or BBC about Canadian teams not being allowed
in to help. Maybe you can check with "homeland security" and see what
they have to say about it.

Canadians have always stepped up to the plate to help, even though the U.S. 
treats
them like a friendly lap dog sometimes.

regards
tallex





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---Original Message---
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Biofuel] Canadian help not allowed to fly in
> Sent: 02 Sep '05 22:37
> 
>  I was sent this blog item about Canadian help being denied
>  entrance to flood areas. Did any Canadians hear the newscast?
>  Anone know if it is true?
>  
>  http://www.dailykos.com/
>  
>  US won't let Canada help Katrina victims
>  by kos Wed Aug 31st, 2005 at 20:58:29 PDT
>  
>  "A specialized urban search and rescue team from Vancouver
>  will be joining the rescue efforts in Louisiana in the wake of
>  hurricane Katrina.
>  
>  B.C. Solicitor General John Les said the province decided to
>  send Vancouver Urban Search and Rescue (USAR) after officials
>  in Louisiana asked for help.
>  
>  "We're the first non-U.S.-based team to be requested," said Les.
>  "They're going to be helping as many people as they can."
>  
>  CTV Vancouver has learned that the team will board a plane
>  Wednesday night heading to Lafayette, Louisiana, where local
>  authorities will direct them to devastated areas.
>  
>  Sounds great! Except for one problem -- this team wasn't
>  allowed to fly  into the US, blocked by Homeland Security from
>  entering. A Canadian  reader sends this report:
>  
>  On tonight's news, CTV (Canadian TV) said that support was
>  offered from Canada. Planes are ready to load with food and
>  medical supplies and a system called "DART" which can provide
>  fresh water and medical supplies is standing by. Department of
>  Homeland Security as well as other U.S. agencies were
>  contacted by the Canadian government requesting permission
>  to provide help. Despite this contact, Canada has not been
>  allowed to fly supplies and personnel to the areas hit by Katrina.
>  So, everything here is grounded. Prime Minister Paul Martin is
>  reportedly trying to speak to President Bush tonight or tomorrow
>  to ask him why the U.S. federal government will not allow aid
>  from Canada into Louisiana and Mississippi. That said, the
>  Canadian Red Cross is reportedly allowed into the area.
>  
>  Canadian agencies are saying that foreign aid is probably not
>  being permitted into Louisiana and Mississippi because of
>  "mass confusion" at the U.S. federal level in the wake of the
>  storm.
>  
>  Once the hard-hit region is back on its feet, there better be a full
>  accounting of the preparation and response to this catastrophe."
>  
>  
>  
>  ___
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>  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>  


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---Original Message---

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Re: [Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please).

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

No,
We used  various mixtures. Some times
sodium nitrate, sulfur and sugar.
Amonium nitrate, aluminum powder, suga, charcoal.
You melted the sugar and added powdered sulfur and the nitrate after it had 
cooled
down but before hardening. If you added the nitrates when the mixture was too 
hot, the whole mess
 would ignite in a massive smoke b-*b. Then it was compacted into cardboard 
tubes. Add other
varoius powdered metals and chemical spheres and you have fireworks. You can 
fire them with
a simple 12 vdc launch pad or potassium permanganate and a drop of glycerine 
automatically ignites
when mixed.

regards
tallex




Alternate Energy Resource Network
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---Original Message---
> From: Greg and April <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] rockets,   turbines and compressed 
> air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your 
> opinions (please).
> Sent: 02 Sep '05 13:56
> 
>  Let me guess, potassium chlorate and sugar, cooked like candy to the hard
>  crack stage on a candy thermometer?
>  
>  Greg H.
>  
>  - Original Message -
>  From: "Alt.EnergyNetwork" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: 
>  Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 15:26
>  Subject: [Biofuel] rockets,turbines and compressed
>  air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your
>  opinions (please).
>  
>  
>  > Hi all,
>  >
>  > I used to be fascinated by this stuff when I was a kid and
>  > used to do a lot of pyro with building solid fuel model rockets.
>  > My friends and I would mix the materials on the kitchen stove
>  > and pour the molten fuel into cardboard tubes to harden around
>  > an cone shape at the bottom of the tube.
>  
>  
>  ___
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>  
---Original Message---

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Re: [Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please).

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi,

Yes, you basically melted sugar and add a couple
of ingredients and poured the mixture into tubes and compacted with the cone 
shape
at the bottom.
They used to work even better when you had a string connected through a hole
in the top of the cone. This string was tied at the top, centered on a nail.
The molten fuel would form around the cone and when dry, the string was removed 
leaving a burn channel through the propellant. Yes you have to follow all the 
rules
 or you can blow something up
Lots of fun but it would'nt be too hard
 to get arrested for some of these activities these days.

How about a wood pellet fired turbine/generator for emergencies or
 equalization charging where gasoline or traditional fuels are not available?

Maybe something positive about the current energy crisis... is finally spurring 
nations into
agressively developing alternate fuel sources and renewable energy sources

While the present (U.S) administration is not taking the problem seriously 
enough.

The dire situation we are headed for is finally beginning to sink in with
the general public, made painfully aware at the pump. In turn, they will be 
reminded
everyday with increases in  heating oil, electricity rates to practically
everything else that relies on oil - ... either in manufacture or transporting
the product/service to market.

regards
tallex







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---Original Message---
> From: Manzo, Emil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] rockets,   turbines and compressed 
> air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your 
> opinions (please).
> Sent: 02 Sep '05 13:10
> 
>  Interesting, I never tried mixing heated ingredients to make solid
>  rocket fuel for model engines. We used a specially shaped ram with "wet"
>  fuel, kind of like dough. You put in clay first to ram (press) the
>  nozzle at the bottom of the tube, then the fuel. When it hardened, there
>  would be a cone-shaped hollow up through the solid fuel. Worked good but
>  you couldn't get too long with the tube or it would explode in flight.
>  Read about the dangers and follow safety rules and you will likely
>  remain alive.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Emil
>  
>  -Original Message-----
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>  Alt.EnergyNetwork
>  Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:26 PM
>  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  Subject: [Biofuel] rockets,turbines and compressed
>  air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first,
>  your opinions (please).
>  
>  Hi all,
>  
>  I used to be fascinated by this stuff when I was a kid and
>  used to do a lot of pyro with building solid fuel model rockets.
>  My friends and I would mix the materials on the kitchen stove
>  and pour the molten fuel into cardboard tubes to harden around
>  an cone shape at the bottom of the tube.
>  Once electronically launched on our pad they would shoot
>  up maybe a few hundred feet. That ended abruptly
>  when I smoke bombed my mothers kitchen once accidently when mixing
>  the ingredients!!
>  
>  So, I had done a lot of reading on rockets, ram jets, scram jets, v1,
>  v2,"s
>  etc. Really fun stuff. If memory serves me correctly, Hitler used
>  liquid paraffin and kerosene in the v2's. They were only designed to run
>  for several minutes in flight.  His scientists had also tried
>  liquid parrafin and alcohol.
>  One of the problems with these types of systems is that they used an
>  incredable
>  amount of fuel to operate for any length of time.
>  
>  Many air tools operate on an air turbine or piston design. You only need
>  around 90psi
>  to start doing some worth while work and it wouldn't be too hard to
>  generate with wind
>  or solar. I have operated a model air motor on compressed air for about
>  20 minutes
>  with one of those tanks for tire fill ups @40 psi.
>  Sizing up such a system might be very interesting.
>  I have often though about a home system of wind /solar generated
>  compressed air
>  for use to run a turbine when there is no sun or wind. I have to do a
>  lot more work on
>  the cost effectiveness of such a design and component sourcing for a
>  prototype
>  but it is definately not that far fetched, unless I, or
>  someone else convinces me otherwise.
>  
>  regards
>  tallex
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  Alternate Energy Resource Network
>    1000+ news sources-resources
>   updated daily
>  http://www.alternate-energy.net
>  
>  
>  ---Original Message---
>  > From: Manzo, Emil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > Sub

[Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi all,

I used to be fascinated by this stuff when I was a kid and 
used to do a lot of pyro with building solid fuel model rockets.
My friends and I would mix the materials on the kitchen stove
and pour the molten fuel into cardboard tubes to harden around
an cone shape at the bottom of the tube.
Once electronically launched on our pad they would shoot
up maybe a few hundred feet. That ended abruptly
when I smoke bombed my mothers kitchen once accidently when mixing
the ingredients!!

So, I had done a lot of reading on rockets, ram jets, scram jets, v1, v2,"s
etc. Really fun stuff. If memory serves me correctly, Hitler used
liquid paraffin and kerosene in the v2's. They were only designed to run
for several minutes in flight.  His scientists had also tried
liquid parrafin and alcohol.
One of the problems with these types of systems is that they used an incredable
amount of fuel to operate for any length of time.

Many air tools operate on an air turbine or piston design. You only need around 
90psi
to start doing some worth while work and it wouldn't be too hard to generate 
with wind
or solar. I have operated a model air motor on compressed air for about 20 
minutes
with one of those tanks for tire fill ups @40 psi.
Sizing up such a system might be very interesting. 
I have often though about a home system of wind /solar generated compressed air
for use to run a turbine when there is no sun or wind. I have to do a lot more 
work on
the cost effectiveness of such a design and component sourcing for a prototype
 but it is definately not that far fetched, unless I, or
someone else convinces me otherwise.

regards 
tallex




Alternate Energy Resource Network
  1000+ news sources-resources
 updated daily
http://www.alternate-energy.net


---Original Message---
> From: Manzo, Emil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to
> try something...but first, your opinions (please).
> Sent: 01 Sep '05 18:51
> 
>  Hi Doug. 400 mph...oops...just a minor detail. Of course you're right.
>  The SCRAM jet is the super-sonic version (supersonic combustion ram
>  jet). I think the old German V1 (buzz-bomb) used a variation on the
>  pulse jet that had a front-flap, allowing starting from a standing stop
>  using only the turbine. It was quite advanced for the time. My vehicle
>  will not be approaching 400mph any time soon...did I say hairbrained?
>  
>  Regards,
>  Emil
>  
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:02 PM
>  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like
>  to try something...but first, your opinions (please).
>  
>  I seem to recall that the minimum airspeed for halfway reasonable
>  efficiency with a ramjet is about 400 mph. Hiller once experimented with
>  a small helicopter powered by ramjets on the rotor tips. I don't recall
>  any mention of starting problems but I doubt it was easy.
>  
>  I believe that a fuel adaptable to forming a reasonably fine mist is
>  needed for ramjets and gas turbines. Kerosene works and I believe the
>  Germans used diesel fuel during the war.
>  
>  Doug Woodard
>  St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
>  
>  On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, Manzo, Emil wrote:
>  
>  > Hi Joe, for no (very few) moving parts you need a ram-jet. Or as some
>  > used to call a "scram jet". It is essentially a pipe with a venturi
>  and
>  > a fuel injector. It needs to have air flowing through it before
>  > ignition, like if it was attached to a glider or vehicle. Once enough
>  > airspeed flows, the injector is activated and the fuel ignited
>  producing
>  > thrust. I bet WVO would work for fuel :-). Another one of my
>  > hair-brained dreams
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  >
>  > Emil
>  >
>  > -Original Message-




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Re: [Biofuel] switchable permanent magnets? was Magnetic boots

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

OK thanks Cris.
That still would'nt be practical for those NASA boots though would it. Adding 
electromagnets and a power supply 
would be bulky and inefficient at the very least.
Just thinking out loud here but couldn't an electromagnet be combined with a 
"so called magnet motor" to
help the magnets get by the stick points? 
regards
tallex



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---Original Message---
> From: Chris Lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] switchable permanent magnets? was Magnetic boots
> Sent: 25 Aug '05 11:51
> 
>  >How do you turn off a permanent magnet electronically? <
>  
>  Hi Tallex, permanent magnets are laid in the track and used by the
>  signalling system on British Rail. (AWS) To turn off the permanent
>  magnet the electro magnet which lays along side the permanent is
>  activated and swamps the magnetic field. As you rightly say it does not
>  turn off the field, just cancels it out.   Chris.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  

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>  
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[Biofuel] too little..too late - increased fuel efficiency crumbs better than nothing?

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

too little, too late.. fuel efficiency crumbs better than nothing?


Bush administration makes a meek attempt to address vehicle fuel efficiency,
exempting Hummers!


Bush Administration Sets New Fuel Standards

http://www.alternate-energy.net/bush_new_efficiency05.html






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Re: [Biofuel] switchable permanent magnets? was Magnetic boots

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi all,

How do you turn off a permanent magnet electronically?
I can see mechanical shields or something similar but
 "switchable permanent magnet" boots?

>  There is no problem in turning off a permanent magnet, it can be done
>  electronically or mechanically.Chris.
>  




It would be amazing if such an animal existed
but I doubt it.

regards
tallex






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---Original Message---
> From: Chris Lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
> Sent: 24 Aug '05 21:32
> 
>  > ah yes, magnets once again -hold on to your wallet <
>  
>  Funny things magnets, I did some work with them back in the 60s, they do
>  seem to contain far more energy than they should. Although energy is
>  probably not the right word. Use electro magnets to hold 100 Kg in the
>  air and you can see the energy being used by the current flow, now how
>  do you calculate the "energy" being used with permanent magnets doing
>  the same job.
>  There is no problem in turning off a permanent magnet, it can be done
>  electronically or mechanically.Chris.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  --
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[Biofuel] Hiroshima survivor speaks out

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hiroshima Survivor Recalls the Day the Atomic Bomb Was Dropped

http://www.alternate-energy.net/hiroshima05.html










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Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Yes Monsanto and others have used absolutely dispicable tactics against some 
U.S. and Canadian farmers
who found some of their gm plants on their land. I also understand that they 
just purchased the largest seed coumpany in the world. Name escapes me right 
now but that particular seed co. supplies most of the worlds
vegetable and fruit seeds. I fear what these megacorps have planned with 
teminator seeds for tomatoes, lettuce and virtually all our fruits and 
vegtables once manipulated to not produce viable seeds or germinate the next 
year. They are programmed to die after one season so farmers have to buy a new 
batch of seeds each year from ...guess who?


regards
tallex





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---Original Message---
> From: Richard B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism
> Sent: 08 Aug '05 18:34
> 
>  Monsanto is a prime player in predatory, monopolistic practices, trying
>  to pass laws to "lock the little guy out". Check out
>  http://www.grain.org/seedling/?id=343.  If Monsanto has its way, we will
>  have to pay royalties to do anything with seeds, including growing
>  plants to produce biofuels.
>  
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>  
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Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

I had to jump in here!

O n0, not an abortion debate. Women have every right to full control over 
their
own bodys and should have complete feedom of choice. 
Another example of the difference between
 red and blue states??

Dictating christian moral beliefs as if they were "gospel" and trying to 
influence law makers is not
the way to go to develop an open, multicultural, tolerant 
suatainablesociety..even if you are arguing about abortion rights..and it is 
happening way too often.

While christianity has its place, Suppression of scientific fact does not,  
Spirituality takes many forms and a society that celebrates  diversity,  has 
many advantages over one that does not. At least half the country believes in a 
more moderate view of the world than is presented politically.. You may also 
want to consider 
traveling outside the U. S. and discover just how out
 of sink and isolated (you)  may have  become in the planetary scheme of 
things.. There is a BIG world out there that you oviously are unaware off. and 
it is not too hardto imagine why some people are angry with us.
Maybe you would rather continue to get gouged by ever increasing energy costs, 
giving all your gas expenses to over bloated multinationals , contributing to 
terrorists and a deterioration of established living standards? 

Continue to pay to drive a gas hog and see where that gets you.
 As long as you cling to old ideas and shy away from
 innovative solutions to our energy independence problems through denial and 20 
century thinking,
you will be no further ahead and YOU certainly won't be comfortable or have an 
modicum of energy security
 in the years ahead..

You also might want to wake up to the fact that there are millions of folks 
that don't agree with your philosophy. It's a big world out there and you will 
find that you view of things is to be questioned and pretty provincial.

What is your reasoning to comparing snails to abortions?
 
A society that respects diversity and tolerates others that are different  is 
much better adopted
 to survive and cooperate in the difficult years we face ahead.

 
>  > some snails life, being of great importance
>  > and right to live, yet believe it is okay to kill babies. That the Child
>  > is of no value and has no right to life

I respect your right to view abortions as wrong but lets face reality here. 
Abortions are a fact of life. They are not going away and will continue to be
 performed legally (or illegally)
wether you like it or not, or are you going to arm yourself and blow up 
abortion clinics for your religious beliefs. 
Well that is just demented. . Nothing you or others  do will change this so
 GET OVER iT >
 Trying to influence government policy based on religious ideollogy is wrong 
and that
 hypocracy is breeding,  international animosities..
If you don't beleve that, then you are at odds with most of the world. Where 
are you getting your 
information from, your local pastor exclusively?? 

 Snails, frogs, tadpoles are solid boilogical health indicators of the state of 
the planet, and 
all is not wel at all, because of us. They are solid  indicators of what wlll 
happen to us if we don't clean up our act and fast. We are polluting and 
destroying the earth at an incredable rate  and WEill soon be "the canary in 
the coal mine" instead of the canary.

 Using stem cells from aborted fetuses could 
save your grand/father/mother from Alheimers, clone replacement hearts, lungs 
and other organs and limbs, 
save a newborn baby from certain death, so many potential remedies from this 
promising area of 
research, absolutely stymied by this administrations reluctance to sanction 
this type of reseach,
another example of religion having far too much influence in government.  I 
know about this first hand, as my brother is a professor deeply involved in 
genetic research and does a lot of work in this area. He continually complains 
about the suppression of  research data, research funding cuts and right wing 
religious interfearance.
Because of 
this researchthere is the
veryrealposssability of curing some major diseases through manipulating these 
techniques.
As if the neocons narrow view of society is the intelligent or right choice. 
Yes I'm really, really pissed off with the
continued  tactics of these people for the sole purpose of money in their 
pockets, under the guise of the moral right.
 Fortunately they seem to be seeing a little more light in recent months with 
admissions that funding and pursuing these developments just might be a good 
idea. 

I quess you have nothing to say about the thousands of dogs and cats that get 
put down every week because they are unwanted? Life is life? Are they a higher 
enough life form than snails for you? Just another example of our thow away 
society. I really, trully fear for the next generation.
 We are in serious deep SH-- if we don't get our act together..

I would much rather concentrate on being able to live off the grid,

[Biofuel] arcosanti - an urban laboratory

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

interesting.

arcosanti - an urban laboratory

http://www.arcosanti.org/











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[Biofuel] U.S., five Asian nations agree to push technology to fight climate change

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Bush sees the light??



US, Five Asian Nations Agree to Push Technology to Fight Climate Change

http://www.alternate-energy.net/climate_change_coop05.html








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[Biofuel] solar power breakthrough (we'll see)

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Solar Power Breakthrough; New Low-Cost Solar Energy May Replace Gas

http://www.rednova.com/news/science/188098/solar_power_breakthrough_new_lowcost_solar_energy_may_replace_gas/









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[Biofuel] Re: was...The New Blue States/Country

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Me too,

The once proud republican party has been highjacked by
right wing neocons, powerfull corporations
and xenophobic Jesus freaks. No administration in history
has gone to the extent that this one has, to distort
scientific data and water down or eliminate environmental 
and health protection measures.

The disinformation/media control and suppression tactics
of sound science that they use are mind boggling. 

I have reposted 2 articles below that may be of interest.
Apologies if you have all read them, but they are worth reading again.

What are the most effective ways to conteract this warped
view of democracy and control that is gradually being "harmonized" globally
to the lowest common denominator? 

regards
tallex 

p.s.
I coudn't resist reposting these either,


Science Under Seige   poster unknown

By Tim Montague

An ill wind is gusting through the halls of science these days: faked 
research, suppression of unwelcome results, corruption of science 
advisory panels, university research falling under the influence of 
corporate sponsors, and many other conflicts of interest.

It's as if science were under siege.

For at least the last thirty years science has strongly supported the 
positions taken by environmental and public health advocates. The 
proponents of 'business as usual' have claimed that chemical and 
nuclear technologies have created only minor problems or no problems 
whatsoever -- but time after time science has shown otherwise. They 
said global warming was a "chicken little" fantasy. They said the 
Earth's ozone shield couldn't possible be harmed. They argued that 
asbestos was benign. They said lead in paint and gasoline was 
entirely safe. They said harm from hormone-disrupting chemicals was 
imaginary. They said a little radioactivity might actually improve 
your health. They said human health was constantly and consistently 
improving -- until scientific study revealed increases in birth 
defects, asthma, diabetes, attention deficits, nervous system 
disorders, diseases of the reproductive system, immune system 
disorders, cancer in children, and on and on. In each of these cases 
science showed that the advocates of 'business as usual' were simply 
wrong.

Science cannot solve all our problems or tell us everything we need 
to know, but it remains a powerful tool for reaching agreement about 
the nature of reality (at least for those parts of reality amenable 
to scientific inquiry). For the past 30 years, science has shown us 
unmistakably that we are destroying the natural systems (and bodily 
defenses) that we ourselves depend upon, so 'business as usual' is a 
dead end.

Perhaps this is why science itself is now under systematic attack by 
corporate interests. Whatever the underlying reasons, it seems clear 
that industry has lined up to discredit science, control the research 
agenda, take over the apparatus for scholarly publication and 
otherwise undermine the scientific and democratic pursuit of 
knowledge in the public interest. Perhaps they see it as their only 
hope of defending themselves against the overwhelming scientific 
evidence that -- if accepted by the public -- would end 'business as 
usual' and set us on a new precautionary path.

The Los Angeles Times reported July 11 that allegations of faked 
scientific findings increased 50% between 2003 and 2004.[1] But the 
Times also noted that the federal Office of Research Integrity cannot 
keep up with the rising tide of scientific fakery because it's budget 
is far too small. The office received 274 allegations of scientific 
fakery in 2004, but was able to complete only 23 investigations.

Corporate suppression of data is now so routine that no one raises an 
eyebrow. In the wake of an EPA advisory panel classifying the Teflon 
chemical C8 (ammonium perfluorooctanoate, or PFOA) as a "likely 
carcinogen," reporter Ken Ward Jr. of the Charleston (W.Va.) Gazette 
learned that in 1981 DuPont initiated a study to learn whether 
exposure to C8 caused birth defects in the children of Teflon factory 
workers. When the study found an excess of birth defects in the 
children, the study was abandoned and the results filed away without 
notifying the federal government. Under the Toxic Substances Control 
Act (TSCA) companies must tell the EPA when they find information 
"that reasonably supports the conclusion that [a chemical] presents a 
substantial risk of injury to health."[2]

Generating Doubt -- OSHA Gives Up

It is common practice for industry to wage scientific and public 
relations war against the regulatory agencies whose job is to protect 
public health. The Wall Street Journal reports that PR firm 
executives openly admit to hiring university professors to put their 
names on ghost-written letters to the editor.[3] The letters are 
written by hacks paid to put a corporate "spin" on the science, and 
the experts sign their names to lend credence to the spin (and to 
earn a fat fee).

Another com

[Biofuel] ethanol backers reject study

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

NE - Supporters reject study that says ethanol of dubious worth

http://www.journalstar.com/latest_reg/?story_id=225011





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[Biofuel] improved batteries - fuelcell motorbike

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

US auto manufacturers to develop better battery technologies 

http://www.alternate-energy.net/better_batteries05.html



Fuel Cell Motor Bike

http://www.alternate-energy.net/fuelcell_motorcycle05.html







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[Biofuel] was..China Stakes Claim for Global Oil Access

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hello,

I find the coming oil crunch very scary and don't doubt it is going to happen.
China is just doing what the U.S. has been doing for years..staking out 
claims to the world's remaining fossil fuels.
l
They and the rest of the developing countries have the same rights
as everyone else to reliable, affordable energy and they will do everything 
that they can
to secure it.

I am quite sure that the average citizen has only a faint idea of the trouble 
that we 
are in for in the next several years.
One of the only bright sides in all of this is as dino fuels become ever more 
expensive,
the economies of scale will continue to tip in favor of renewables.

regards
tallex


---Original Message---
> From: Chris Lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: [Biofuel] China Stakes Claim for Global Oil Access
> Sent: 18 Jul '05 16:12
> 
>  > In its quest for crude, Beijing is dangling cash and playing on
>  nations' discontent with the U.S. Can the two huge energy consumers
>  coexist? <
>  
>  I find it rather scary, as China has the export earnings to pay for
>  expensive oil. If China starts to use oil like America does there isn't
>  enough oil in the world to supply the demand. Heating/lighting costs are
>  going through the roof here in the UK, after closing all out deep coal
>  mines we are now running out of Natural gas and panic is hitting the
>  fuel markets. I'm paying $7.56 for a gallon of diesel, I really don't
>  need China jacking the price of crude up.   Chris.
>  


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[Biofuel] Re: was - Electromagnetic Pulse Alert

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

In the early days of the invasion they launched 1,000's of carbon fibre strips 
from planes to short out transmission lines and power systems.

There also seems to be a very fine line between freedom of information and 
giving your enemies a how to manual
for WMD's. EMP devices have been researched by the U.S, Russia and others for 
years and there is a lot of dangerous technology out there. Some of the stuff 
developed over the years is pretty terrifing.

regards
tallex


>  Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Electromagnetic Pulse Alert
>  In a message dated 7/1/05 1:26:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
>  writes:
>  
>  >
>  
>  well, gee, if the terorist haven't thought of doing this yet, this all 
> ought
>  to give them a leg up.
>  greg
>  
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>  -
>  Yahoo! Sports
>  Rekindle   the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
>  
>  -
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---Original Message---

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[Biofuel] solar tracker circuit - part 1

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Solar Panel Tracker

http://www.alternate-energy.net/sol_track05.html














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[Biofuel] solar energy stored efficiently

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Solar energy stored efficiently
http://www.physorg.com/news4749.html



The black stuff has world order over a barrel 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1515240,00.html














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[Biofuel] Global warming c02 turned into baking soda

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Promising technology turns global warming c02 into baking soda

Company develops process to turn CO2 into baking soda 

http://www.alternate-energy.net/co2_to_baking_soda05.html


regards
tallex




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[Biofuel] plastic solar cells

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Coat the world in plastic to catch the sun

http://abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1387706.htm













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[Biofuel] more on transparent solar cells

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

more on transparent solar cells
regards
tallex



The novel photochromic system reacts to the 
lighting conditions. The glass panes automatically
colour when they are illuminated, and bleach in the dark. 
The particular advantage of the new development, in 
comparison to previous photochromic materials, is presented
by its high colour contrast even at elevated temperatures.
In contrast to electrochromic systems, the photochromic
system does not require an external power supply or controls,
as the sunlight delivers the energy for the colouring process.
The need and thus the costs for transparent electrodes are
avoided. In addition, it is no longer necessary to 
insulate two electrodes from each other to avoid short
circuits, which is by no means trivial over large areas. 


The basis for the system is a coating consisting of layers of 
electrochromic tungsten oxide and a dye solar cell with a low 
concentration of dye. Under illumination, electrons in the
solar cell layer are excited and injected into the tungsten
oxide. At the same time, cations from the electrolyte are
intercalated into the layer. As a result, the tungsten oxide
turns blue. In the dark, recombination reactions, which can
be accelerated by the presence of catalysts, cause 
the tungsten oxide to bleach. 


The coloration depth and rate depend on the catalytic activity
and can be adapted to each particular application. The visible
(solar) transmittance of the first samples prepared is reduced
from 60 % (40 %) to 4 % (1 %) when they are illuminated for 
15 minutes by sunlight with an intensity of 1000 Wm-2. After 
30 minutes in the dark, these samples have bleached almost 
completely. At low light intensity, the coloration 
is less intense. Below 100 Wm-2, it is only very weak. Use
of adapted ionic conductors offers great potential to 
shorten the switching times. 


In principle, the system can also be produced as a 
photochromic film, which brings further advantages for 
applications. 



Transparent solar cells 
http://www.alternate-energy.net/power_glass05.html 


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[Biofuel] Re: was Robin's solution... was: DA Drops...

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

What a load of bull.
I sincerely doubt that "the Robin Williams"
was the author of the xenophobic rant below.
tallex





---Original Message---
> From: "Jerry Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Robin's solution... was: DA Drops...
> Sent: 05 Jun 2005 03:42:17
>
>  AMEN
>  
>  - Original Message -
>  FROM: Michael Redler
>  TO: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  SENT: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:27 PM
>  SUBJECT: Re: [Biofuel] Robin's solution... was: DA Drops...
>  
>  Why do all the xenophobic emails end with:
>  
>  "If you agree with the above forward it to a
>  friend...If not, and I would be amazed, DELETE it !"
>  
>  as if the third choice (spreading this email with a description of what 
> it really is) is not an option.
>  
>  After watching "Patch Adams", I have to believe that there is another Robin 
> Williams who wrote this trash.
>  
>  Be amazed Lisa...be very amazed!
>  
>  Mike
>  
>  _LISA SIMPSON _ wrote:
>  You   gotta love Robin Williams... Leave it to Robin
>  Williams to come up with the   perfect plan .. what we
>  need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up   and
>  repeat this message.
>  
>  Robin William's plan. (Hard to argue with   this
>  logic!)
>  
>  I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I   have
>  not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.
>  
>  1.) The US   will apologize to the world for our
>  "interference" in their affairs, past   &present. You
>  know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic   and
>  the rest of those 'good ole boys,' We will never
>  "interfere"   again.
>  
>  2.) We will withdraw our troops from all over the
>  world,   starting with Germany, South Korea and the
>  Philippines. They don't want us   there. We would
>  station troops at our borders. No one sneaking   through
>  holes in the fence.
>  
>  3.) All illegal aliens have 90 da! ys to   get their
>  affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free
>  trip home.   After 90 days the remainder will be
>  gathered up and deported immediately,   regardless of
>  who or where they are. France would welcome them.
>  
>  4.)   All future visitors will be thoroughly checked
>  and limited to 90 days   unless given a special permit.
>  No one from a terrorist nation would be   allowed in.
>  If you don't like it there, change it yourself and
>  don't   hide here. Asylum would never be available to
>  anyone. We don't need any   more cab drivers or 7-11
>  cashiers.
>  
>  5.) No foreign "students" over   age 21. The older ones
>  are the bombers. If they don't attend classes,   they
>  get a "D" and it's back home baby.
>  
>  6.) The US will make a   strong effort to become
>  self-sufficient energy wise.
>  This will include   developing nonpolluting sources of
>  energy but will require a temporary   drilling of oil
>  in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to
>  cope   for a while.
>  
>  7.) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil   producing
>  countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't
>  like it,   we go some place else. They can go somewhere
>  else to sell their production.   (About a week of the
>  wells filling up the storage sites would be   enough.)
>  
>  8.) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe
>  in   the world, we will not "interfere," They can pray
>  to Allah or whomever, for   seeds, rain, cement or
>  whatever they need. Besides most of what we give   them
>  is stolen or given to the army. The people who need
>  it most get   very little, if anything.
>  
>  9.) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated   island
>  some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather
>  friends   here. Besides, the building would make a good
>  homeless shelter or lockup   for illegal aliens.
>  
>  10.) All Americans must go to charm and   beauty
>  school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans"
>  any longer.   The Language we speak is
>  ENGLISH.learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that   a
>  winner of a plan.
>  
>  "The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give   me
>  your poor, your tired, your huddled masses.' She's
>  got a baseball bat   and she's yelling, 'You want a
>  piece of me?'"
>  
>  ~~~If you agree with   the above forward it to
>  friend...
>  
>  If not, and I would be amazed,   DELETE it   !
>  
>  __
>  Do   You Yahoo!?
>  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>  http://mail.yahoo.com
>  
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[Biofuel] more info- transparent solar cells

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Here is more info on the transparent solar cells

Power Glass
http://www.xsunx.com/tech-power.htm

XsunX has focused on the development of very
thin semi-transparent coatings and films that
create large area monolithic solar cell structures
that you can see through. This semi-transparency
makes Power Glass glazing desirable for placing
over glass, plastics, and other see-through
structures. Using patented processes, such as
reel-to-reel manufacturing techniques and multi-terminal
cell structure designs, we are working to commercialize
large area cell manufacturing processes for thin film
flexible plastics.


Power Glass represents a new breed of solar cell design
that balances solar cell efficiencies and manufacturing
costs with broad applications and uses. The Company
believes that these design, manufacturing, and
application efficiencies may provide as much as a
100% efficiency-to-cost gain over conventional
opaque solar cells. This 100% gain in efficiency-to-cost
is based on Company estimates of Power Glassú solar
cells operating at as much as 50%, or half, the
efficiency of conventional opaque amorphous solar
cells yet costing as little as 25%, or one fourth,
to produce. Final cost to efficiency analysis will
be determined upon completion of development.






Transparent solar cells
http://www.alternate-energy.net/power_glass05.html






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[Biofuel] transparent solar cells

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Transparent solar cells 

http://www.alternate-energy.net/power_glass05.html









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[Biofuel] Senator Warner's new anti wind energy bill

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Senator Warner is at it again, trying to prevent wind
development by introducing a bill that would among other
things cut subsidies for wind energy and
seriously hamper future development.


Bill takes aim at subsidies for wind

http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes/billtakes17.htm

By ETHAN ZINDLER
STAFF WRITER
Two U.S. senators have proposed legislation that
would likely hobble the development of offshore
wind projects in the United States, including
the one currently proposed for Nantucket Sound.

Sponsored by Sens. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., and 
John Warner, R-Va., the ''Environmentally 
Responsible Windpower Act'' would disqualify
 wind farms located off coasts, near military
 bases, in national parks, and in other potentially
 sensitive locations from receiving a crucial federal
 tax subsidy.

Executives with Cape Wind have long acknowledged
 that the 130-turbine project they plan for Nantucket
 Sound would be a non-starter without the subsidy, 
known as the production tax credit, or PTC.

Introducing the bill Friday on the floor of the
 Senate, Alexander offered a blistering critique
 of wind as a viable energy source.

''My studies suggest that at a time when America
 needs large amounts of low-cost, reliable power,
 wind produces puny amounts of high-cost, 
unreliable power,'' said Alexander. ''We need
 lower prices. Wind power production raises prices.''

Alexander said Americans would see 100,000 massive
 turbines along their horizons by 2025 if the federal
 government continued the PTC and pursued an overall
 goal of producing 10 percent of its electricity
 from renewable sources.

''Clearly, there are likely to be more sensible
 ways to provide clean energy than spending $3.7
 billion of taxpayer money over the next five years
 to destroy the American landscape,'' he said.

Alexander made only passing reference to the bill's 
potential impact on offshore wind farms and did not
 mention Cape Wind specifically. But Warner has long
 been an outspoken critic of the project and has
 complained that no adequate framework exists for
 regulating offshore wind development.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is currently leading
 a multiagency review of Cape Wind and last November
 released its 3,800-page Draft Environmental Impact
 Statement, which was generally favorable to the 
project. The final version of the report could be 
released by the end of the summer.

Last fall, Warner sought to slip language into a
 military appropriations bill that would have stripped
 the Corps of its authority over offshore wind.

Yesterday, a spokesman for Warner did not return 
a call seeking comment.


Cape Wind's response
James Gordon, Cape Wind CEO, said the legislation
 and Alexander's remarks are misguided.

''I think a number of his comments are just wrong,''
 said Gordon, in Denver yesterday attending the 
American Wind Energy Association's annual conference.
 ''I think it's widely recognized that wind power
is going to be an important part of America's energy future.''

Gordon said the AWEA event was buzzing about the
 Alexander-Warner bill and the Tennessean's comments.

''A lot of people here are just bewildered that he
 would take this position, but he's entitled to his
 opinion,'' he said.

In a written statement, AWEA denounced the 
Alexander-Warner bill.

''By severely limiting new wind energy development,
 Sen. Alexander's anti-wind bill would result in 
more air pollution and more acid rain from burning
 fossil fuels while also eliminating thousands of 
American jobs, many located in rural America,'' AWEA said.

The PTC allows wind facilities' operators to defray
 1.8 cents from their annual tax bills for each 
kilowatt-hour of energy produced through the first
 10 years of operation. The tax credit was 
established by Congress to make renewable energy
 projects more competitive with fossil fuel-burning
 plants, which also receive heavy subsidies.

The PTC is considered crucial to the development 
of wind power in the United States but is not a 
permanent part of federal tax code. On the two 
occasions when the credit has expired in the past, 
construction of wind projects has slowed to a crawl.
 The PTC is due to expire again at the end of this year.

If the Cape Wind project were to come on line today, 
it would enjoy roughly $27 million in tax credits by
 the end of its first full year of operations, 
assuming the developer's output projections are correct.


Alliance reserves judgment
Susan Nickerson, executive director of the Alliance
 to Protect Nantucket Sound, which has spearheaded 
local opposition to Cape Wind, would not say if the
 group specifically backs the Alexander-Warner bill.
 She noted the alliance does support the PTC.

Fallout from Cape Wind was partly to blame for the
 legislation, she said.

''When you have two leading U.S. senators filing 
legislation that stops all offshore wind, there 
has to be a reason. And the reason is Cape Wind is
 the pre-eminent offshore wind project 

[Biofuel] interesting fuel cell developments

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Some interesting fuel cell developments here

UK: FUEL CELL POWER No. 20 Spring 2005 

http://www.futureenergies.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=885



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[Biofuel] Re: last from me on hydrogen fire place

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

It turns out that the so called fireplace
is basically a hydrogen "candle" not a fireplace
at all in the traditional sense.
Marketed as a hoakey green status symbol and
apparently for an award
regards
tallex





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---Original Message---
> From: "Terry DeSimone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place
> Sent: 28 Apr 2005 02:38:38
>
>  I dunno,seems like a closed system. Combusting H2 is just the reversal of 
> the electrolysis (reduction/oxidation). It would appear to use no oxygen from 
> the home air as opposed to a wood burner which doesn't supply its own oxygen. 
> The only problem I see is that all the water that is used to produce the H2 
> will wind up in the house as high humidity. This concept would probably be 
> excellent for heating a greenhouse.
>  ÊÊ Terry
>  
>  "Alt.EnergyNetwork" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>  OK
>  But don't shoot the messanger. I was paraphrasing some of the info from the 
> site.
>  I didn't design the device
>  and have no association with that company. I posted the item
>  because I thought that it was interesting. I have some reservations about 
> their system as well.
>  regards
>  tallex
>  
>  ---Original Message---
>  > From: "Kirk McLoren"
>  > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place
>  > Sent: 25 Apr 2005 15:16:12
>  >
>  > Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. 
> Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are 
> cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, 
> thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low 
> oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea.
>  >
>  > Kirk
>  >
>  > "Alt.EnergyNetwork" wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > Hi all,
>  > This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard
>  > electrolysis of water.
>  > You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately
>  > not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily 
> installed.
>  > Company states output at around 31,000 btu's.
>  > It is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite
>  > a few clones will be available.
>  > Certainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn
>  > clean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the room air.
>  >
>  > The world's first hydrogen-burning fireplace launches next generation
>  > of hearth products
>  >
>  > http://www.heatnglo.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=33
>  >
>  >
>  >
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Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

plication that doesn't currently exist.
>  >
>  >I find it difficult to believe that someone will first laugh at a new
>  >idea, then keep an open mind for it's potential later.
>  >
>  >Mike
>  >
>  >Hakan Falk wrote:
>  >
>  >Mike,
>  >
>  >It was not really meant as ridicule of anything else than
>  >the contraption as such. It was a way to tell you that
>  >this thing probably will sell good enough to make profits.
>  >It is almost impossible to look at this thing with anything
>  >more than humor and if it is anyone out there that belive
>  >that this is a serious product, I am sorry that I could not
>  >refrain from laughing. This apart from the other and more
>  >serious debate we can have about hydrogen.
>  >
>  >This product was developed to capitalize from the
>  >hydrogen hype and to be sold as a status symbol for
>  >some that think that they can prove their environmental
>  >concerns this way. It is in the same class as the hydrogen
>  >Swartzenagger Hummer, but it is only my opinion and
>  >please do not get hurt feelings because of it.
>  >
>  >I am very sorry if I offended you, I had no idea that it was
>  >such a serious issue for you and you are right in that case.
>  >It was very insensitive of me and I apologize to you and
>  >other peers in the same situation as you.
>  >
>  >Anyway, it will sell and make good profits for the company,
>  >that I am sure of.
>  >
>  >Hakan
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >At 06:27 AM 4/27/2005, you wrote:
>  > >OK Hakan.
>  > >
>  > >You will notice that I was trying to keep an open mind
>  > >to a new idea. I can say with confidence that I have
>  > >no plans to put anything other than wood in my
>  > >fireplace.
>  > >
>  > >But, if you enjoy blind siding members of this group
>  > >with juvenile remarks like "but who cares, it is the
>  > >modern way of having a romantic moment", you might not
>  > >realize how some of your peers in this group see
>  > >someone who has traded objectivity for pointless
>  > >sarcasm. Is this your method for inspiring others --
>  > >ridicule? Maybe it's a way of boosting your own self
>  > >esteem. Either way, there's nothing good in it.
>  > >
>  > >How about an attempt at some useful information next
>  > >time -- without attacking any of your peers.
>  > >
>  > >Mike
>  > >
>  > >--- Hakan Falk wrote:
>  > >
>  > > >
>  > > > Mike,
>  > > >
>  > > > At 07:56 PM 4/26/2005, you wrote:
>  > > > >I don't see conflicting opinions. I just see
>  > > > different motives.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >Agreed; H2 via electrolysis is not efficient by
>  > > > most comparisons. But,
>  > > > >since when is a fireplace anyone's first choice for
>  > > > an efficient means of
>  > > > >heating a home? Yet millions of people (including
>  > > > myself and other
>  > > > >environmentally conscious individuals) choose to
>  > > > use fuel inefficiently
>  > > > >from time to time
>  > > >
>  > > > You must mean most of the time.
>  > > >
>  > > > >and create a pleasant atmosphere -- especially when
>  > > > family and friends are
>  > > > >gathered together during their time off. Although
>  > > > it's hard to quantify,
>  > > > >there is value in activities like sitting in front
>  > > > of a fireplace.
>  > > >
>  > > > and doing the right thing, "burning water". An
>  > > > expensive school experiment,
>  > > > but who cares, it is the modern way of having a
>  > > > romantic moment. Burning
>  > > > the money will give less BTU anyway, or maybe not,
>  > > > the way that the $ is
>  > > > heading.
>  > > >
>  > > > Hakan
>  > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >Mike
>  > > > >
>  > > > >Greg Harbican wrote:
>  > > > >You still run into H2 storage issues.
>  > > > >You would have to spend days making H2 just to run
>  > > > the fireplace for a few
>  > > > >of hrs.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >Why bother?
>  > > > >
>  > > > >It is more efficient to use the e

[Biofuel] sillyness-was- hydrogen fire place

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi Hakan,

Well I think that it is silly to use fossil produced electricity for an 
electrolizer to burn hydrogen
in a "fireplace". Not efficient at all and a waste of juice. There is nothing 
renewable about that
idea. I also just learned that the company has been having problems with the 
units. 
Seems the front keeps blowing off!!

I also think it is silly to power the so called hydrogen economy from
fossil/nuclear/coal/LNG cracked hydrogen, although LNG produced hydrogen is 
cleaner
than what we have now and will probably power most of the initial hydrogen 
hybrids.
It is also a good bet that nuclear produced hydrogen will play a significant 
part as well.
I would maybe suggest that the waste products be mixed with cement and made 
into bricks to build
homes for politicians with!

I don't think it is silly to use wind, PV and other renewable sources to 
generate hydrogen.
There are already on site units made by Stuart and others that can run on wind 
and PV.
Used in fill up stations in this way is not silly.

And, no Mr Bush, coal is not a renewable source of energy(lol)

GM,Ford, Daimler are all betting their future on hybrids and hydrogen platforms,
at first probably generated from fossil fuels.

We have to make some very tough choices about our energy future
and are going to have to utilise all manner of renewable technologies to even 
put a dent in
what we need to power the planet.


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---Original Message---
> From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>
>  Tallex,
>  
>  If you think this is silly, you just wait, I heard that they will start to
>  use it in cars also. LOL
>  
>  Hakan
>  
>  
>  At 07:48 PM 4/26/2005, you wrote:
it sounds kind of silly. Maybe they hope to market it to people who
>  >want to see themselves as environmentally responsable while still being
>  >able to drive their gas hogs
>  >regards
>  >tallex
>  >
>  >Alternate Energy Resource Network
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[Biofuel] radioactive -was hydrogen fire place

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hello JD2005,
can you give me some information. What is this radioactive material that 
they(who?) are
putting in washing powder. Also how does this material disasociate water or 
make clothes dry faster?
thanks for your reply
regards
tallex

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---Original Message---
> From: "JD2005" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
> Sent: 27 Apr 2005 12:10:55
>
>  I do not agree with the utilisation of water to get wasser stoff (hydrogen)
>  but it is possible to dissociate water with radioactive material such as
>  they are putting in washing power these days to make laundry dry more
>  quickly.
>  
>  JD2005
>  
>  - Original Message -
>  From: bob allen
>  > I guess if you ran the electrolysis device in your living room to
>  > recover the lost heat, but still there have to be better ways to provide
>  > space heat.
>  >
>  > It would be just as efficient and a lot cheaper to run a bare nichrome
>  > wire for heat.
>  >
>  > Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote:
>  > >
>  > > I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind
>  generator
>  > > regards
>  > > tallex
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Alternate Energy Resource Network
>  > >ÊÊ 1000+ news sources-resources
>  > >ÊÊupdated daily
>  > > http://www.alternate-energy.net
>  > >
>  > > ---Original Message---
>  > >
>  > >>From: "Kirk McLoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place
>  > >>Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21
>  > >>
>  > >> If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I
>  guess they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at
>  night. A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient.
>  > >>
>  > >> Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:OK, I did some poking around
>  and had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production
>  using electrolysis.
>  > >>
>  > >> Does anyone have a link with some stats?
>  > >>
>  > >> Mike
>  > >>
>  > >> Kirk McLoren wrote:
>  > >> Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases.
>  Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are
>  cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap,
>  thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low
>  oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea.
>  > >>
>  > >> Kirk
>  > >>
>  > >> "Alt.EnergyNetwork" wrote:
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> Hi all,
>  > >> This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard
>  > >> electrolysis of water.
>  > >> You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately
>  > >> not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily
>  installed.
>  
>  
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Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi Greg,
You are right. When one starts thinking about their idea a bit more in depth, 
it sounds kind of silly. Maybe they hope to market it to people who want to see 
themselves as environmentally responsable while still being able to drive their 
gas hogs
regards
tallex

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---Original Message---
> From: "Greg  Harbican" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
> Sent: 26 Apr 2005 17:29:42
>
>  You still run into H2 storage issues.
>  You would have to spend days making H2 just to run the fireplace for a few
>  of hrs.
>  
>  Why bother?
>  
>  It is more efficient to use the energy in another manor.
>  
>  Greg H.
>  
>  - Original Message -
>  From: "Alt.EnergyNetwork" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:12
>  Subject: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
>  
>  
>  >
>  >
>  > I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind
>  generator
>  > regards
>  > tallex
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Alternate Energy Resource Network
>  >ÊÊ 1000+ news sources-resources
>  >ÊÊupdated daily
>  > http://www.alternate-energy.net
>  >
>  > ---Original Message---
>  > > From: "Kirk McLoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place
>  > > Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊIf your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I
>  guess they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at
>  night. A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient.
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊMichael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:OK, I did some poking around
>  and had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production
>  using electrolysis.
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊDoes anyone have a link with some stats?
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊMike
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊKirk McLoren wrote:
>  > >ÊÊSupplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases.
>  Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are
>  cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap,
>  thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low
>  oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea.
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊKirk
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊ"Alt.EnergyNetwork" wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊHi all,
>  > >ÊÊThis is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard
>  > >ÊÊelectrolysis of water.
>  > >ÊÊYou still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately
>  > >ÊÊnot free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily
>  installed.
>  > >ÊÊCompany states output at around 31,000 btu's.
>  > >ÊÊIt is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite
>  > >ÊÊa few clones will be available.
>  > >ÊÊCertainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn
>  > >ÊÊclean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the room air.
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊThe world's first hydrogen-burning fireplace launches next generation
>  > >ÊÊof hearth products
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊhttp://www.heatnglo.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=33
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊGet your daily alternative energy news
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊnews resources forums
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >ÊÊAlternative Energy Politics
>  > >
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>  > >
>  > >
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[Biofuel] Re: was- hydrogen fire place

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

---Original Message---
> From: "Kirk McLoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Hello,
Well I didn't design the darn thing. I posted it because I thought it was
an interesting idea. I always have respect for hydrogen and have been 
constructing many electrolisers over the years. There are a couple of other 
companies
developing hydrogen bar b ques and hydrogen lawn mowers so this article
was along the same line. You may want to read the hydrogen fireplace update 
that I posted,
as it decribes a number of very interesting patents using brown's gas for 
combustion heating.
The devise is not as far fetched or rediculous as it may seem at first glance. 
Read the other patents
info on this type of tech
regards


> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
> Sent: 26 Apr 2005 04:32:16
>
>  And if you dumped the power into a resistor (heater) you would get twice as 
> much heat as the fireplace.
>  
>  "Alt.EnergyNetwork" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>  I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind 
> generator
>  regards
>  tallex
> 



Alternate Energy Resource Network
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>  
>  
>  
>  Alternate Energy Resource Network
>  1000+ news sources-resources
>  updated daily
>  http://www.alternate-energy.net
>  
>  ---Original Message---
>  > From: "Kirk McLoren"
>  > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place
>  > Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21
>  >
>  > If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I guess 
> they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at night. 
> A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient.
>  >
>  > Michael Redler wrote:OK, I did some poking around and had a little trouble 
> finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production using electrolysis.
>  >
>  > Does anyone have a link with some stats?
>  >
>  > Mike
>  >
>  > Kirk McLoren wrote:
>  > Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. 
> Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are 
> cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, 
> thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low 
> oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea.
>  >
>  > Kirk
>  >
>  > "Alt.EnergyNetwork" wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > Hi all,
>  > This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard
>  > electrolysis of water.
>  > You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately
>  > not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily 
> installed.
>  > Company states output at around 31,000 btu's.
>  > It is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite
>  > a few clones will be available.
>  > Certainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn
>  > clean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the room air.
>  >
>  > The world's first hydrogen-burning fireplace launches next generation
>  > of hearth products
>  >
>  > http://www.heatnglo.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=33
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Get your daily alternative energy news
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>  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid
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[Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind generator
regards
tallex




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---Original Message---
> From: "Kirk McLoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place
> Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21
>
>  If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I guess 
> they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at night. 
> A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient.
>  
>  Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:OK, I did some poking around and 
> had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production 
> using electrolysis.
>  
>  Does anyone have a link with some stats?
>  
>  Mike
>  
>  Kirk McLoren wrote:
>  Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. 
> Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are 
> cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, 
> thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low 
> oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea.
>  
>  Kirk
>  
>  "Alt.EnergyNetwork" wrote:
>  
>  
>  Hi all,
>  This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard
>  electrolysis of water.
>  You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately
>  not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed.
>  Company states output at around 31,000 btu's.
>  It is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite
>  a few clones will be available.
>  Certainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn
>  clean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the room air.
>  
>  The world's first hydrogen-burning fireplace launches next generation
>  of hearth products
>  
>  http://www.heatnglo.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=33
>  
>  
>  
>  Get your daily alternative energy news
>  
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid
>  
>  news resources forums
>  
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy
>  
>  
>  
>  Alternative Energy Politics
>  
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/
>  
>  
>  Alternate Energy Resource Network
>  1000+ news sources resources
>  updated daily
>  http://www.alternate-energy.net
>  
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>  
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>  
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---Original Message---
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Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

OK
But don't shoot the messanger. I was paraphrasing some of the info from the 
site.
 I didn't design the device
and have no association with that company. I posted the item 
because I thought that it was interesting. I have some reservations about their 
system as well.
regards
tallex

---Original Message---
> From: "Kirk McLoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place
> Sent: 25 Apr 2005 15:16:12
>
>  Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. 
> Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are 
> cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, 
> thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low 
> oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea.
>  
>  Kirk
>  
>  "Alt.EnergyNetwork" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>  
>  Hi all,
>  This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard
>  electrolysis of water.
>  You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately
>  not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed.
>  Company states output at around 31,000 btu's.
>  It is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite
>  a few clones will be available.
>  Certainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn
>  clean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the room air.
>  
>  The world's first hydrogen-burning fireplace launches next generation
>  of hearth products
>  
>  http://www.heatnglo.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=33
>  
>  
>  
>  Get your daily alternative energy news
>  
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid
>  
>  news resources forums
>  
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy
>  
>  
>  
>  Alternative Energy Politics
>  
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/
>  
>  
>  Alternate Energy Resource Network
>  1000+ news sources resources
>  updated daily
>  http://www.alternate-energy.net
>  
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>  
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---Original Message---
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[Biofuel] hydrogen fire place

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi all,
This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard 
electrolysis of water.
You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately 
not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed.
Company states output at around 31,000 btu's.
It is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite 
a few clones will be available.
Certainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn 
clean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the room air.

The world's first hydrogen-burning fireplace launches next generation 
of hearth products

http://www.heatnglo.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=33



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[Biofuel] home made fuel cell and other interesting pdf links

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hi all,
Just added some new pdf files on how
to make a home made fuel cell, peak oil, hydrogen and future transportation 
tech.
You can find them here.
regards
tallex

http://www.alternate-energy.net/pdf03.html






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