Re: [Biofuel] Okay, This time I really am going to take down the list, , , , but first, please read
Chip, Hello from India. This is cool stuff. Please keep me in the loop. All best. Chandan On Thursday 16 March 2017 09:03 PM, Chip Mefford wrote: Good day all of you who are left, I really want to thank everyone who has sent their thoughts on taking the list down. There have been some, , no, not some, all, great stories. Before I take the list down, , I was wondering how many of you are still interested in keeping something like this going. reason I ask is that I am becoming involved in a new software project that I find very exciting, and hence have chosen to do the work to update my respective servers, including the mailing list server. Kind of a pain in the neck, I went through a life-change over the last 6 years, and walking away from all things IT was part of that. Since I had many dangling obligations (being a denizen of the internet) I tapered it all down to where about the only thing I was responsible for was this mailing list. However, that particular attempt at resolving some things in my life by not doing systems administration have cropped back up again, so that wasn't the fix for which I had hoped. So, it doesn't make sense really to abandon all those skills I had developed, even though I am moving into my dotage, (heh) but rather to double down and dive back in. The project of which I speak is FarmOS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCOqg5iH6fM Take a look, give me some feedback, if there is interest, I'll migrate some or all of this list into a new community. Thanks kindly for your attention in this matter; --chipper ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Keith Addison passed away
Dear Midori, This is shattering news. Keith was a most remarkable man in many ways. May his soul rest in peace. In deepest sorrow. Chandan On Wednesday 05 November 2014 07:05 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Dear biofuel friends, Keith, who contributed so much to the handmade biofuel movement and related appropriate technology and organic movements, died of pneumonia in August 2014. This is Midori, Japanese partner of Keith Addison. My apology for being late to tell you this sad news. It took a while for me to recover from his death and rearrange related matters. Still continues.. I'd like to maintain his projects available online, in which Keith devoted so much - literally he devoted more than 10 years of his life to journeytoforever.org and biofuel mailinglists. I cannot contribute to it anymore, but at least I will keep them as they are, available to the public for coming years. Regarding to this mailinglist, I suppose he left the managing to somebody else around 2013 - please advise me how this is arranged now, off-list if it's more suitable. I now manage his emails at ke...@journeytoforever.org and I see more than 100 moderator requests piling up (most of them are Post by non-member to a members-only list). I also manage the domain name sustainablelists.org. Do we still need it for the list? Please advise. There have been so many issues on and around these mailinglists over the decade. Keith used to tell me hours about what's going on on the list, both happy and annoying issues. No matter what - I really appreciate for your support and contribution for Keith over these years. Thank you so much. I hope we all remember Keith and what he taught us. Many thanks and best wishes, Midori Kyoto, Japan - I can be reached at i...@journeytoforever.org. Please specify to Midori in the title. Thanks. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] remove from mailing list please
This part of a mailing list's life story never fails to be hilarious. Why is it that there are so many people hanging around the Internet who find it really easy to sign up for a list by themselves, but suddenly become incapable of finding out how to unsubscribe themselves from it when they don't like it any more? Unsolicited advice to all of you who want out: Having seen Keith run this list for some time now, I can assure you that he is not likely to spend his time cleaning up after you just because you refuse to read instructions and do your own thing. So you really have only 2 options. Please read the fine manual and unsubscribe yourself (instructions have already been pointed out to you several times). Alternatively, if you want to add to the planet's climate problem (because it will be a really stupid waste of energy to continue to send the mails to you over the network that are only spam for you), set up a filter on your mailer or mail service to auto-junk all mails from this list and leave the remaining members in peace with their political hackings. Chandan On Thursday 04 April 2013 08:10 AM, Jay Wetzel wrote: Ditto! Remove me too, you bunch of political hacks! From: Jorge Montiel mon...@yahoo.com To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] remove from mailing list please Please remove my name too. Dr. Jorge Montiel From: detbellestarr detbellest...@yahoo.com To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 12:46 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] remove from mailing list please Please remove my name also. This is not the list I thought I was signing up for. Thank you. From: José María Montenegro tote...@gmail.com To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] remove from mailing list please Me too. Nothing (or almost nothing) related with biofuels at this time here... If somebody knows an automatic way to do, please reply. 2013/4/2 Wikus Snijman snijm...@arc.agric.za I agree with Kirk. Please remove me as well, please Kirk McLoren kirkmclo...@yahoo.com 31/03/2013 01:28 read the archives its all there extensive and detailed From: Stephen Rhodes captb...@gmail.com To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 12:51 PM Subject: [Biofuel] remove from mailing list please When I signed up for this, I mistakenly thought there would be some info on sustainable bio-diesel info. This is just a blog for people who want to be heard. Please remove my name from a this mailing lost. Ty SR ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Testing the new list
Hear you loud and clear. In India. On Tuesday 30 October 2012 06:24 PM, Chip Mefford wrote: I'd actually appreciate a few echos from you all. My logs show all the email except a small handfull being delivered promptly. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
[Biofuel] Fwd: Time to consider India’s green GDP as well
Views @ http://www.livemint.com/2012/03/15171536/Views--Time-to-consider-India.html?h=A1 Views | Time to consider India’s green GDP as well Economic growth sometimes comes at the cost of the environment. These costs should be counted The Economic Survey for 2011-12 tabled in Parliament on Thursday has put GDP growth at 6.9% for this fiscal year and projected a growth at 7.6% in fiscal 2012-13 and 8.6% for fiscal 2014. Some of that growth will probably come at the cost of the environment. Over the past five years, 40% of forestland diverted for development projects has been used by mining and power projects, according to the Centre for Science and Environment. A record 87,884 hectares of forest land was diverted for projects in 2009. And 25% of all forestland used for developmental objectives since 1981 has been used in the past five years, according to the advocacy group. That is why I’d like to see these numbers in the context of the environment. That will have to wait, though: India is currently working on measuring its environmental economy for a so-called green GDP by 2015. The government has set up a panel headed by noted environmentalist economist Partha Dasgupta of Cambridge University for this purpose. Last June, the Uttarakhand High Court admitted a public interest petition (PIL) on measuring gross environmental productivity (GEP) along with the gross domestic product (GDP) of the state economy. The petition argues that the state, in the current fiscal, will grow its economy by 9.2% with much of the growth coming from industry and infrastructure development. It adds that this does not present the true picture as Uttarakhand is an ecologically sensitive state and the development indicator does not reflect the growth of environmental components especially forests. I’d also like economic indicators to start factoring in what can only be termed environmental income. For instance, in many states that have seen rapid development at the cost of the environment, indigenous people have become poorer because they lose income from non-timber forest products (NTFP) and are deprived of clean drinking water that once used to flow in forest rivers. This ecological poverty is spreading across India. Environmental metrics are not fads. GEP, when used in association with GDP, may present a true economic (and environmental picture). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fwd: Holy cow! Small is beautiful
*Holy cow! Small is beautiful* *Kerala 'masters' struggle to keep alive rare cattle breeds.* When Kerala Agriculture Minister K.P. Mohanan paid Chandran ‘Master' Rs.15,000 for a Vechur calf last September, he was rewarding a conscious law-breaker. Yet, the Minister, on behalf of the Livestock Development Board, was doing the right thing — and everyone approved. Chandran ‘Master' and other intrepid souls have helped keep Kerala's unique cattle varieties alive. This, despite antiquated laws that made the breeding of such animals by farmers illegal without a licence from the State's Director of Animal Husbandry. And through some years when livestock inspectors relentlessly castrated the bulls of these ‘inferior' breeds, boosting the dominance of crossbred cattle. This flowed partly from the idea that higher milk yields, regardless of costs and consequences, were all that mattered. In what could mark an attitude shift, the State is now paying rebel farmers for resisting its own depredations. Chandran Master keeps 24 head of cattle, mostly rare indigenous breeds, in the compound of his home in P. Vemballur village of Thrissur district. These include the tiny Vechur cow, symbol of Kerala's domestic cattle crisis. By 2000, the animal was on the FAO's World Watch List of Domestic Animal Diversity, in its ‘Critical-Maintained Breeds List.' A variety makes that list “when the number of breeding females” is 100 or less. Or when “the total number of breeding males” is five or less. Or if the overall count is 120 or less, and falling. Smallest cattle breed In Chandran Master's home, the count is rising. “I gave the Livestock Board five Vechur calves,” he says proudly. And got two Gir calves and Rs. 45,000 in return. A tiny Vechur calf had been born — in his compound — just six hours before we arrived there. Her mother, a fine animal, is 82 cm high. The Vechur is the world's smallest cattle breed. November 2010 saw Diana, a 77-cm Vechur (also from Thrissur district), enter the Guinness Book of Records as the smallest cow in the world. (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-8000/smallest-cow-(height)/) http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-8000/smallest-cow-%28height%29/ Mostly, this breed averages around 90 cm in height and about 130 kg in weight. It yields up to 3 litres of milk a day and requires very little by way of feed or maintenance. Alongside the “world's smallest cow” are the Vadakara Dwarf, the Kasargode Dwarf, the High Range Dwarf and other indigenous cattle breeds. The 72-year-old former school teacher scoffs at the official mind-set on cattle. “The cow for them is just a milk-production machine” he says. “Their view has no room for the composition and quality of the milk. Much less for the role of cattle in agriculture and in a farmer's life. None at all for the impact on the environment, diversity or community.” Nambiyandra Ayyappan Chandran ‘Master' is an award-winning former English teacher who worked 36 years in Kerala and Oman. He has “pledged what remains of my life” to conserving breeds of /Bos indicus/ (native Indian cattle). His living room sports a huge photo of the Rs.15,000 cheque from the Kerala Livestock Development Board. “Roughly what I lose each month on my passion.” But Chandran Master is okay with that. ‘Zero maintenance' “My cows,” he points out, “are zero maintenance — they are native and do not need a high-input diet.” But he also tries to grow 30 types of mangoes and an equal number of bamboo varieties, all indigenous. Also a few native kinds of fish and many traditional plants. His son tries to bridge the household deficit through high-earning horticulture. If the family converted some of its 18 acres to real estate, he would be rich, but Chandran Master has “a mission and a passion.” “Malayalis take the easy way out in everything,” Minister K.P. Mohanan had said while handing over the KLDB cheque. “Hence, they have not taken pains to preserve native breeds such as Vechur cow and Kasargode Dwarf. Instead, they have gone for cross-bred varieties. Malayalis should be aware of a global movement for preservation of domestic breeds of animals.” (/The Hindu/, Sept. 25, 2011). However, native breeds were ruined not by people but by official policies over a long time. Kerala's anti-indigenous drive across decades was one factor in the collapse of its native cattle numbers. Livestock Census figures show a drop of 48 per cent in the total cattle population between 1996 and 2007. But it goes back further, to when the Kerala Livestock Improvement Act of 1961 gave “the licensing officer” the “power to order castration of bulls.” And farmers ordered to castrate their bulls had 30 days to do so. An amended Act in 1968 also promised fines and imprisonment for those failing to comply. Dr. Sosamma Iype, retired Professor, Animal Breeding and Genetics from Kerala Agricultural University (KAU) was a pioneer in reviving the
[Biofuel] [Fwd: Pachauri Puzzle]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6847227/Questions-over-business-deals-of-UN-climate-change-guru-Dr-Rajendra-Pachauri.html Questions over business deals of UN climate change guru Dr Rajendra Pachauri The head of the UN's climate change panel - Dr Rajendra Pachauri - is accused of making a fortune from his links with 'carbon trading' companies, Christopher Booker and Richard North write. No one in the world exercised more influence on the events leading up to the Copenhagen conference on global warming than Dr Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC http://www.ipcc.ch/) and mastermind of its latest report in 2007. Although Dr Pachauri is often presented as a scientist (he was even once described by the BBC as “the world’s top climate scientist”), as a former railway engineer with a PhD in economics he has no qualifications in climate science at all. What has also almost entirely escaped attention, however, is how Dr Pachauri has established an astonishing worldwide portfolio of business interests with bodies which have been investing billions of dollars in organisations dependent on the IPCC’s policy recommendations. These outfits include banks, oil and energy companies and investment funds heavily involved in ‘carbon trading’ and ‘sustainable technologies’, which together make up the fastest-growing commodity market in the world, estimated soon to be worth trillions of dollars a year. Today, in addition to his role as chairman of the IPCC, Dr Pachauri occupies more than a score of such posts, acting as director or adviser to many of the bodies which play a leading role in what has become known as the international ‘climate industry’. It is remarkable how only very recently has the staggering scale of Dr Pachauri’s links to so many of these concerns come to light, inevitably raising questions as to how the world’s leading ‘climate official’ can also be personally involved in so many organisations which stand to benefit from the IPCC’s recommendations. The issue of Dr Pachauri’s potential conflict of interest was first publicly raised last Tuesday when, after giving a lecture at Copenhagen University, he was handed a letter by two eminent ‘climate sceptics’. One was the Stephen Fielding, the Australian Senator who sparked the revolt which recently led to the defeat of his government’s ‘cap and trade scheme’. The other, from Britain, was Lord Monckton, a longtime critic of the IPCC’s science, who has recently played a key part in stiffening opposition to a cap and trade bill in the US Senate. Their open letter first challenged the scientific honesty of a graph prominently used in the IPCC’s 2007 report, and shown again by Pachauri in his lecture, demanding that he should withdraw it. But they went on to question why the report had not declared Pachauri’s personal interest in so many organisations which seemingly stood to profit from its findings. The letter, which included information first disclosed in last week’s Sunday Telegraph, was circulated to all the 192 national conference delegations, calling on them to dismiss Dr Pachauri as IPCC chairman because of recent revelations of his conflicting interests. The original power base from which Dr Pachauri has built up his worldwide network of influence over the past decade is the Delhi-based Tata Energy Research Institute, of which he became director in 1981 and director-general in 2001. Now renamed The Energy Research Institute, TERI was set up in 1974 by India’s largest privately-owned business empire, the Tata Group, with interests ranging from steel, cars and energy to chemicals, telecommunications and insurance (and now best-known in the UK as the owner of Jaguar, Land Rover, Tetley Tea and Corus, Britain’s largest steel company). Although TERI has extended its sponsorship since the name change, the two concerns are still closely linked. In India, Tata exercises enormous political power, shown not least in the way it has managed to displace hundreds of thousands of poor tribal villagers in the eastern states of Orissa and Jarkhand to make way for large-scale iron mining and steelmaking projects. Initially, when Dr Pachauri took over the running of TERI in the 1980s, his interests centred on the oil and coal industries, which may now seem odd for a man who has since become best known for his opposition to fossil fuels. He was, for instance, a director until 2003 of India Oil, the country’s largest commercial enterprise, and until this year remained as a director of the National Thermal Power Generating Corporation, its largest electricity producer. In 2005, he set up GloriOil, a Texas firm specialising in technology which allows the last remaining reserves to be extracted from oilfields otherwise at the end of their useful life. However, since Pachauri became a vice-chairman of the IPCC in 1997, TERI has vastly
[Biofuel] [Fwd: May be of interest : Dr Johan Rockstroem on ''planetary boundaries'' (blog)]
Original Message Subject:May be of interest : Dr Johan Rockstroem on ''planetary boundaries'' (blog) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:07:35 -0800 From: nirmal ghosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: nirmal ghosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Humans a geological force December 17, 2009 Thursday, 10:10 PM Nirmal Ghosh speaks with Johan Rockstroem about tipping Earth out of balance. *In COPENHAGEN * DR JOHAN Rockstroem, professor and executive director of the Stockholm Environment Institute (and the Swedish magazine Focus’s Man of the Year for 2009) had to cancel a joint briefing with Lord Nicholas Stern earlier today on the economics of China’s low carbon development plans. The upside was I got some time over coffee with Dr Rockstroem at one of the numerous cafeterias in the conference centre, to speak about his latest work on planetary boundaries. It is important work, because it attempts to define what impact the human race has on our planet – and whether that is enough to change our own environment, for the worse. Dr Rockstroem is the ideal professor, speaking with a wide and deep grasp of the issues, in a lucid and persuasive style. He gave me a quick rundown on the concept of the study and its sobering conclusion: that essentially the human race has prospered over the last 10,000 years because of a stable climate – but the difference between staying stable and lapsing into extremes and chaos that would threaten our survival, is very slim. /*Dr Johan Rockstroem, professor and executive director of the Stockholm Environment Institute. -- ST PHOTO: BY NIRMAL GHOSH*/ We have so much evidence now of the different stability domains of the planet, Dr Rockstroem said. We see how the planet has moved in and out of ice ages, in and out of stable conditions, and you see that the last 10,000 years is the most extraordinarily stable period we’ve seen in the last million years. We have as full-fledged humans, been running around the planet for the last 200,000 years, as hunters and gatherers, with fewer people. And there’s more and more evidence that one reason we were so few is that we had such variable and harsh conditions, meaning that the ecological foundation for the development of civilisation as we know it, was not there. And then we entered the last 10,000 years and suddenly we got a stable temperature, stable hydrology, stable ecosystems, and invented agriculture, and off we went – the Maya, Inca, Greek, Egyptian, the Roman civilisations and empires, and (now) we are 7 billion people moving towards 9 billion. The study by 28 scientists led by Dr Rockstroem, worked on the premise that the last 10,000 years – known as the Holocene period – is our desired state. But the study came to alarming conclusions. When you look back, the planet has knocked itself out of that stability domain in the past, and it has done it by extraordinarily small deviations from this stability. For example moving in and out of ice ages is a temperature difference of only plus or minus 3 degrees. So a situation where we have a 120m lower sea level is minus 3 degrees, and roughly 6-9m sea level higher is plus 3 deg. These extremes are actually fluctuations triggered by very small deviations from this desired stability domain. The scientists therefore asked themselves what can be done to stay in the desired Holocene state. Science must ask itself are we hitting hard wired limits, and could we start defining what are the thresholds we may pass which could start a process pushing the planet outside of the Holocene, he explained. If we can identify those let’s say disastrous outcomes we want to avoid, what are the control variables, what are the processes on the planet we need to be stewards of to avoid pushing ourselves across that threshold? And that’s where we identified nine big domains which include climate, stratospheric ozone, the nitrogen phosphate cycle etc. The study was scientifically daring in trying to put numbers to those boundaries. For instance take different levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, say 350 parts per million (ppm) to 500 ppm. It’s a broad range of uncertainty, but it’s clear that within that range we see the risk of falling over unacceptable or even disastrous thresholds, that we could push the irreversible melting of the ice sheet, or the irreversible collapse of all tropical ecosystems, or deglaciation of the Himalayas, he said. The premise is that the human species is the main driver of global warming – something questioned by climate change sceptics who propose that the Earth is entering a warming stage anyway, and human-induced (or anthropogenic) climate change is not a major factor. Not so, says Dr Rockstroem. There’s well established scientific propositions today based on evidence, that in fact humanity is
Re: [Biofuel] Sun gazing to heal the mind, body and spirit!
Fantastic, Dawie! The Eye of Apollo - first published in The Innocence of Father Brown (apparently in 1910). Available online at http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/innocence/apollo.html and also in a variety of formats including audio books for free at http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/index.html#FICTION Chandan Dawie Coetzee wrote: I am reminded of one of G K Chesterton's short stories, written probably in the 1920s, which featured a sun-gazing cult. As I remember, the cult leader's secretary had gone blind through staring at the sun but had, through pride and sheer competence, managed to hide the fact. She was murdered by tricking her into walking into an open lift shaft. Chesterton's detective stories are all about moral/spiritual attitudes, the relevance of which I don't know in this instance: just by the way. Best regards Dawie Coetzee ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sun gazing to heal the mind, body and spirit!
Fritz, I fully agree with you. But it's one thing to let one's skin bask in the early morning sun and quite another to stare at the sun (if that's what sun gazing means) even when it's not too high in the sky. BTW, I should clarify that Kovoor was not specifically dealing with sun gazing, but with all sorts of folks trying to take people for a ride with irrational mumbo-jumbo. Chandan Fritz wrote: Hello Chandan, thanks fore pointing this out! I had that feeling when i looked at his website,there is no info at all about the sun gazing!Anyhow if you gaze sun moderate you benefit from increased Vitamin D input so there is that natural healing this should be a basic humanrigth without making someone rich! greetings Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] State of Environment report, 2009: 45% of India's land degraded
Source: Zee News, http://www.zeenews.com/news554697.html 45% of country's land degraded: Environment report Updated on Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 00:22 IST Tags:India environment, Degraded land, Glacier New Delhi: At least 45 per cent of the country's land is degraded, air pollution is on the rise in all cities while rare flora and fauna is diminishing at a rapid rate, according to the State of Environment Report India 2009. The third official report on the state of India's environment released by Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh paints a grim picture of the status of environment in the country, highlighting water, energy, food, climate change and urbanisation. At least 45 percent of India’s land area is degraded due to erosion, soil acidity, alkalinity and salinity, waterlogging and wind erosion, said the report prepared by Development Alternatives on behalf of the ministry. On air pollution, the report points out that levels of respirable suspended particulate matter has been on the increase in over 50 cities and with their population of 110 million the public health damage costs were estimated at Rs 15,000 crore in 2004. Rooting for public transport system, the report blames urban air pollution on vehicles and factories. While India remains one of the world's 17 megadiverse countries in terms of the number of species it houses, 10 per cent of its wild flora and fauna are on the threatened list, the report points. ’No evidence of glacier melting’ The Central government will set up a glaciology institute in Dehradun to find out whether Himalayan glaciers were receding due to climate change or it is a natural phenomenon. The Centre has decided to set up a Himalayan Glaciology Institute in Dehradun as presently there is no robust scientific conclusion that the glaciers were melting due to climate change, Environment Minister Jairarm Ramesh said today. We don't have conclusive evidence that the glaciers are melting due to climate change though it can be one of the reasons, but receding can be a natural phenomenon also, Ramesh said. Adequate scientific capacity will be brought in the field to study and expand the area, the Union Minister said, adding there is also a need to set up weather stations in various Himalayan states such as Uttarakhand, Assam and Arunanchal Pradesh. Bureau Report ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Hillary's agenda in India
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-4796140,prtpage-1.cms ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Latest on the Tata's Dhamra port
http://greenpeace.in/turtle/the-video2-that-took-115000 Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy from waves
Just like we are always trying to green the wastelands :-). Chandan Dawie Coetzee wrote: Hi Chip. I've yet to observe /anything/ 'natural' that was a true artifact, waste product in nature. We live pretty much in a solar powered sealed-up system. Very little is actual waste, esp energy. That's an extremely interesting concept, one that very few people are getting their heads around. It calls into question the very notion of efficiency as regards any discrete component in the system. The misconception is that unit-efficiencies all add up to an overall system stability, which they don't: the fuel-value of manure is my favourite example. If a water buffalo were really a paragon of beautiful natural efficiency its excrement would not burn; but a water buffalo is not that but rather a paragon of appropriateness to an overall systemic efficiency: for which it needs a specific level of efficiency and inefficiency. My fear is that the recent drive to hitherto unheard-of technological efficiencies for ostensibly ecological reasons will merely dig our ecological hole even deeper. Note that they are always unit-efficiencies, never systemic efficiencies. Best regards Dawie Coetzee - Original Message From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, 10 September, 2008 18:04:18 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Energy from waves I've always been really leery of wave energy schemes. Not that I think they are a scam, or anything like that. I've read some of the science, lotta available power there. However, everything I read concerning tide/wave power assumes that the available power is going to waste if not 'harvested'. And I mean everything. I don't have any reason to assume a contrary position. However, I've yet to observe /anything/ 'natural' that was a true artifact, waste product in nature. We live pretty much in a solar powered sealed-up system. Very little is actual waste, esp energy. We've assumed that other energies were going to waste before. rivers come to mind. The consequences of that assumption were certainly predictable by a very few at the time, but for most no one even thought about it. Free power, what else do you need to know? What are the consequences of this harvest? I don't even hear anyone even asking that question. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A Pigeon Solves the Classic Box-and-Banana Problem
If you are in a mood to explore this topic more academically, Douglas Hofstadter's The Mind's I is a classic compilation of landmark writings on the subject including philosophical essays, literary pieces, and views of computer science and AI legends with annotations by Hofstadter and Daniel Dennet. No technical background necessary. Chandan “If all the animals were gone, man's spirit would die from loneliness.” - Chief Seattle Darryl McMahon wrote: But surely we do understand how aware other animals are. It's why we are so adept at using them as tools to so many things on our behalf. Bomb sniffing dogs, miner's rats and canaries, carrier pigeons, horses' ability to distinguish between potable and contaminated water, etc. As for the arrogance of man toward beast, surely our history shows we're just as willing to subjugate other humans, be it based on race, religion, class or economic status. Darryl Kirk McLoren wrote: It is such a sad thing that people dont understand how aware other animals are. Kirk Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=mDntbGRPeEU ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer
This is pretty much what I meant by energy packaged for relatively non-local distribution and consumption by humans which, it might be argued, is a market commodity, not a right (such as air and water) given by nature to any living being. Negative EROEI is definitely acceptable (specially to energy businesses) for producing this kind of energy. It generally seems to be is also acceptable to most people. It becomes even easier to accept if you take an anthropocentric view of the universe in which the only species that matters is homo sapiens sapiens. That's what we have been doing as a species for the last several centuries which brought the world to where it is today. Daniel Quinn's (the Ishmael guy) book Beyond Civilization is a nice semi-fictional account of this story. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hi Erik and all Hi Keith, and everyone else, Sorry Chandan, I'm baffled by the EROEI arithmetic. I just wanted to point out one thing about the arithmetic. No, I don't really understand it either, but I didn't really try. One thing that doesn't seem to have been said is that it might not matter as much, depending on where they're getting their energy to extract the oil. Well, that didn't come out quite right - of course it does matter, and the less energy they can use to get the oil the better. What I mean is more that the liquid fuel that you end up with is a VERY convenient and portable energy source. Until we figure out higher power density batteries or super capacitors or some other form of power storage that is better. But for now liquid fuel is hard to beat. Of course it could be biofuel rather than petroleum products, but the end result for the driver is about the same. A high energy source that is easy to take along with you and very convenient. Thankyou for pointing that out. I did some digging... This is from Offgrid-Online, April 5, 2000 (talking about alcohol EROEI), posted to the list seven years ago: Will we get out more energy than we put in? Does it matter? Generally a scheme that did not create more energy than it consumed would be useless, but in this case we might have a different view. Since we are after a portable fuel, we might be willing to spend more energy to get it, so long as we used a non-portable fuel to do so. For example, suppose we use wood-fired heat to make alcohol. Wood is a poor fuel as far as portability in general is concerned and is nearly useless for internal combustion engines. So what if we have to spend 2 BTUs of wood heat for each BTU of alcohol fuel produced? That might still be a good deal if we had lots of wood and gasoline was (that is, continues to be) highly priced. http://www.homesteadtechnology.com/newsletters/2405.txt So if you can use electrical power to extract the oil and crack it down to usable fuel then, even if you've used more power than you can then get out of the fuel, you could be ahead. Not all energy is equal as far as usability. Sacrificing some energy for the convenience of diesel and gas could be a good trade off. Again, the less sacrificed the better, down to none or positive energy gain, but even if it's not possible it doesn't mean that we shouldn't do it. Using electrical power to extract oil could mean using coal-power, with hundreds of years of reserves to play with (?), or biomass, with no real finite limit, and in either case the EROEI figure of the oil itself wouldn't matter. And in each case there are other problems to consider which are at least as important as the EROEI of oil. (If there is such a thing.) All that said, of course our lifestyles and use of the liquid fuel need to change, drastically. Dead right - our use of all energy has to change drastically, not just of liquid fuel. But just because some energy is lost doesn't mean that the whole process is unusable and needs to be shut down. Quite so. Thanks! - all best Keith Erik ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer
to withdrawing money from a bank - at some point you have to make some deposits - or at least stop the withdrawals. Not quite - it's more like drawing on your current account, which doesn't matter much if you happen to have massive reserves invested. As is claimed. In which case never mind EROEI, use up all the cheap light oil while you can, leave the heavier stuff for later and put off having to build new, more expensive refineries for as long as possible. I don't know if that's the case, just conjecture, for the sake of an example. Though there's certainly been a lot of foot-dragging in upgrading refineries in the US. It's worth looking at what else is in a barrel of oil. This is from Petroleum.org: Products Gallons per barrel gasoline 19.5 distillate fuel oil (includes both home heating oil and diesel fuel) 9.2 kerosene-type jet fuel 4.1 residual fuel oil (heavy oils used as fuels in industry, marine transportation and for electric power generation) 2.3 liquefied refinery gasses 1.9 still gas 1.9 coke 1.8 asphalt and road oil 1.3 petrochemical feedstocks 1.2 lubricants 0.5 kerosene 0.2 other 0.3 Figures are based on 1995 average yields for U.S. refineries. One barrel contains 42 gallons of crude oil. The total volume of products made is 2.2 gallons greater than the original 42 gallons of crude oil. This represents processing gain. EIA March 2004 data is similar. We tend to skim over some of those items. I found this estimate of world petroleum use, probably not far wrong: World transportation fuel (about 750 billion L/yr), at least 40% of world electricity (now around 30 million MW) and 50% of world organic chemicals production (in excess of 100 million T/yr). So the 1.2 gallons of petrochemical feedstocks in the barrel accounts for about 50 million tons of chemicals per year. That's a lot of money. There was this amazing claim: As I stated on many occasions, someone calculated that for every 100 gal oil the industry recovers $100 worth gasoline from half of the barrel and $27 000 in other chemicals from the other half. - Dr. Laszlo Paszner of the Faculty of Forestry at UBC, who developed the Acid Catalyzed Organosolv Saccharification ethanol process (ACOS), in a message to the Bioenergy list (2002). I don't know if that's true or not, but I'd be surprised if Paszner is altogether wrong. Whatever, even if you divide it by two, or four, or ten, it would seem to shrink the overriding importance of EROEI more than somewhat if the fuel portion is only a by-product in money terms. I'm sure ExxonMobil's accountants would have no trouble getting all the numbers to add up nicely, EROEI and all. Especially if they're confident of the oil reserves. If not, they'd probably just postpone the inevitable as long as possible. And lie about it. Like so much else in this discussion, it's hard to say how important petroleum EROEI really is, let alone what the real figures might be. Anyway, how about this, no takers? why does oil cost four times as much as it did five years ago? (Answer in no more than 35 words, who, what, where, when, why and how, thankyou.) I'll even drop the 35-words limitation (it's just a joke, that's the rule for writing the first paragraph of a news article). Best Keith For the example, an EROI of 0.88, you get 0.88 gallons of stuff (or BTU's or whatever) for each 1 gallon consumed... still worth it, since you stared with 1 gallon of sticky black crude oil, stuck way down in the ground... and ended up with 0.88 gallons of gasoline or such... so even though you end up with less than you started with, you got a more useful product. By definition, any product that uses petroleum as the feedstock, will have a EROI less than 1. It's not till it gets lower than zero that it's not worth it to do it... Of course, an EROI higher than 1 is even better -- because you aren't just converting crude to something else with some loss...but actually gaining energy (from solar photosynthetic input, for example). At least, that's how I think about it to make those numbers make sense. Z On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there something funny about Table 3 (in that pdf) or do I somehow miss the whole point? Why are they adding up all the fractions together?! I'd imagine one would add up Domestic Crude Production, Domestic Crude Transport, Crude Oil Refining, and Diesel Fuel Transport to get total cost of domestic diesel production. Similarly, add up Foreign Crude Oil Production, Foreign Crude Transport, Crude Oil Refining, and Diesel Fuel Transport to get total cost of foreign origin (with respect to the US) fuel. These totals come out as 0.6477 and 0.6244, corresponding to EROEIs of 154% and 160% respectively. Why on earth would one add up all the rows together? Or have I misunderstood the whole
Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer
Is there something funny about Table 3 (in that pdf) or do I somehow miss the whole point? Why are they adding up all the fractions together?! I'd imagine one would add up Domestic Crude Production, Domestic Crude Transport, Crude Oil Refining, and Diesel Fuel Transport to get total cost of domestic diesel production. Similarly, add up Foreign Crude Oil Production, Foreign Crude Transport, Crude Oil Refining, and Diesel Fuel Transport to get total cost of foreign origin (with respect to the US) fuel. These totals come out as 0.6477 and 0.6244, corresponding to EROEIs of 154% and 160% respectively. Why on earth would one add up all the rows together? Or have I misunderstood the whole idea? If petroleum fuel had a negative ROEI, shouldn't the whole system have fallen flat on its face decades ago? Chandan Keith Addison wrote: snip... A.k.a. EROEI, energy returned on energy invested. Does it necessarily become a losing proposition? Quite a few studies show a negative EROEI for petroleum, which doesn't seem to stop anything much (yet): 1.2007 MJ of primary energy is used to make 1 MJ of petroleum diesel fuel. This corresponds to a life cycle energy efficiency of 83.28%. An Overview of Biodiesel and Petroleum Diesel Life Cycles, Sheehan, Camobreco, Duffield, Graboski, Shapouri, National Renewable Energy Laboratory of the U.S. Department of Energy, Midwest Research Institute, May 1998. 655kb Acrobat file: http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19980501-gen-203.pdf Units of energy produced for 1 unit of energy consumed: Petroleum 0.88 units produced -- USDA snip... Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Some data on the India story
There has been many mentions of rising consumption in India (and China) recently. If any of you are curious about the actual numbers on the ground, this very flashy presentation might interest you: http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/publications/india_consumer_market/images/India_Interactive1.swf Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Evaluation of global wind power
Looks like there is a lot of considered views in the archives that wind turbines killing bird life is a red herring and any discussion about it is trolling. I haven't had the time to browse all the 165 matches Keith pointed at, but I did browse the first 30 or so. The scholastic level does not seem to be significantly better than the Nigel Barnes article. A search for Nigel Barnes in the list archive produced nothing. The article does seem well researched to me even if there are some opinions scattered over facts. I did not find any other info on google that stated that Nigel Barnes was a fossil corp agent or he had other vested interests in denigrating wind power. In short, I cannot brush aside all that his article says, yet, despite the green background :-). [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chandan, Protecting bird life (and wild life, and diversity) is more important than most human needs that need power. I am sure there are solutions to help reduce the numbers of birds that are killed by wind turbines that don't involve abandoning a VERY worthy and clean form of energy capture. In any of the links you have followed, did anyone investigate/evaluate ways to divert birds around wind farms (lights, ultrasonics) or find areas of low bird travel (offshore placement)? Personally, I would rather see a few birds get hit by turbines than killed slowly by pollution, along with everything else around them. It is a trade-off. Unless you have a good way to chance human psychology, it is a good short-term solution. Talking of alternatives without talking of the need implicitly assumes the sanctity of the need. Sometimes there are no alternatives other than giving up the need. Needs are subjective. There are plenty of needs in parts of the space-time continuum which would be just plain insane and laughable elsewhere. I agree about evaluating needs when looking at different alternatives, but what do you mean by saying they are subjective? A race car driver saying 'I need a fast car' is not the same as you saying 'I need oxygen to survive'. They are both needs, but one has an alternative, the other does not. Randy, perhaps relative is a better word than subjective. Reducing my needs is something specific and concrete that is entirely in my hands. So that's what I try to do :-). It's hard to resolve issues of perceived needs across different perspectives since all cases are not as stark as race cars against oxygen. Someone may be conditioned to believe that 30C (86F) is impossibly hot to live through during summer without using air-conditioners, while I find 36C quite ok (even better with a cool mug of beer in my hand :-)). 8 hrs a day of a 2kW A/C is a whopping saving and great for the environment, don't you agree? an alternative source of energy is not a real alternative unless it is nett energy positive (can produce more energy than it takes to make and operate it on a perpetual basis). As far as I understand, none of nuclear, coal, solar, wind, etc pass that test when you factor in the entire cost. Looks like there are no alternative sources of energy. :-) You are talking about perpetual motion or over-unity. Closest we have right now is power from the Sun. Realistically, any form of energy can be an alternative to another...the discussion usually gets to finding out if it makes sense, and certainly evaluating the need for the energy is a good first step in that analysis. Let's not trace it back to the origin of the universe and the scriptures about the sun god, etc. :-). By default I assume alternative energy sources refer to alternatives to burning fossil fuels (coal and petroleum, and natural gas, if we like to think of it as a separate source) to get things that humans want done or to create easily distributable and usable energy for humans. There do seem to be some alternatives to burning fossils to create easily usable energy for humans, (burning freshly made bio/agro fuels, wind, solar, ocean, geothermal, etc.). Each one has associated environmental costs. We should prioritize efforts (specially those using public money) on the ones that seem to be the least damaging (while at the same time trying to reduce consumption as far as possible and as close as possible to pre-industrial era). If we are on the same page till now, then you might even agree with me that the precautionary principle should apply to the clean energy candidates just as much as it should apply to suspects such as genetic engineering and nanotechnology. Just because something seems to be cleaner than burning fossil fuel does not mean it is better than fossil fuel in terms of overall nett environmental impact. Chip gave a good example, and on the face of it, PVs seem to be good, but would BP Solar (Solarex) be as interesting as it seems if they need to run their entire supply chain and entire distribution network using solar energy? I'd hazard a
Re: [Biofuel] Evaluation of global wind power
Kirk, A google search on wind power problem will bring up many links. Specifically, large scale wind energy farms in Ireland and parts of UK have apparently created massive problems for bird life. Also the noise in high wind conditions is apparently unbearable for the neighborhood. This article is over 2 years old, but might be a start: http://www.geocities.com/nigbarnes/ The problem, as usual, is the scale. Beyond a certain scale, unexpected difficulties surface. Everything is connected. Chandan Kirk McLoren wrote: http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/winds/global_winds.html by Cristina L. Archer (), and Mark Z. Jacobson () The paper summarizing the results presented below was published in the Journal of Geophysical Research - Atmospheres in 2005. A copy of the manuscript can be downloaded here (MS Word, ~4 MB) or here (PDF, ~17 MB). Assuming that statistics generated from all stations analyzed here are representative of the global distribution of winds, global wind power generated at locations with mean annual wind speeds ¡Ý 6.9 m/s at 80 m is found to be ~72 TW (~54,000 Mtoe) for the year 2000. Even if only ~20% of this power could be captured, it could satisfy 100% of the world?s energy demand for all purposes (6995-10177 Mtoe) and over seven times the world?s electricity needs (1.6-1.8 TW). Several practical barriers need to be overcome to fully realize this potential. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Evaluation of global wind power
I have no close range experience with large wind turbines, but a 10m dia turbine turning at just 1 rps has blade tips moving at over 100 kmph. A series of them along a hilltop (which seems to be a highly preferred mode of installation) is a sure way of killing a lot of avian life. I am setting myself up for a barrage of flame :-), but: Protecting bird life (and wild life, and diversity) is more important than most human needs that need power. I know, the wind power basher article I cited has an obnoxious background color :-), but it may still be worth a full reading. If you have reason to believe that most of what it states is false, it will be good to hear your reasonings too because the article contests most good things one hears about wind power and it'll be good to be corrected. Talking of alternatives without talking of the need implicitly assumes the sanctity of the need. Sometimes there are no alternatives other than giving up the need. Needs are subjective. There are plenty of needs in parts of the space-time continuum which would be just plain insane and laughable elsewhere. And finally (the list archives should be full of stuff about this), an alternative source of energy is not a real alternative unless it is nett energy positive (can produce more energy than it takes to make and operate it on a perpetual basis). As far as I understand, none of nuclear, coal, solar, wind, etc pass that test when you factor in the entire cost. One way of running that test is to consider, for example, whether one could have a solar panel factory, its entire supply chain, and its entire distribution network running only on solar panels as the ONLY source of energy. Common sense says that the answer is negative, although I don't have a reference to cite right now. Chandan Zeke Yewdall wrote: The large wind farms I've been in are very quiet -- just a gentle whoosh of the large blades going overhead about once a second. Of course, by that time the wind was trying to pack freezing sleet into my ears so I was worried about alot more than a wind turbine I could barely hear. The powerlines to them can kill birds and such -- just like all powerlines. The noisiest wind turbine I have ever heard is a 300 watt unit about 3 foot diameter that in high winds seriously sounds like someone revving a 2 stroke chainsaw engine. Those I don't like. It almost seems like the larger the wind turbine, the less obnoxious the noise from it. Z On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 4:04 AM, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True, true But what are your alternatives? Nukes -kill people and animals Coal - kill all things that breathe or are sensitive to mercury - same as above it seems Wind - kills birds and noisy if close - bad but less bad than above. Solar - silicon foundries have a bad history. San Jose water table is contaminated with mutagens. Human powered treadmills - I can see a whole new prison industry. If we were able to mandate water treatment in silcon factories - maybe this is the solution? We have a problem. Kirk Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirk, A google search on wind power problem will bring up many links. Specifically, large scale wind energy farms in Ireland and parts of UK have apparently created massive problems for bird life. Also the noise in high wind conditions is apparently unbearable for the neighborhood. This article is over 2 years old, but might be a start: http://www.geocities.com/nigbarnes/ The problem, as usual, is the scale. Beyond a certain scale, unexpected difficulties surface. Everything is connected. Chandan Kirk McLoren wrote: http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/winds/global_winds.html by Cristina L. Archer (), and Mark Z. Jacobson () The paper summarizing the results presented below was published in the Journal of Geophysical Research - Atmospheres in 2005. A copy of the manuscript can be downloaded here (MS Word, ~4 MB) or here (PDF, ~17 MB). Assuming that statistics generated from all stations analyzed here are representative of the global distribution of winds, global wind power generated at locations with mean annual wind speeds ¡Ý 6.9 m/s at 80 m is found to be ~72 TW (~54,000 Mtoe) for the year 2000. Even if only ~20% of this power could be captured, it could satisfy 100% of the world?s energy demand for all purposes (6995-10177 Mtoe) and over seven times the world?s electricity needs (1.6-1.8 TW). Several practical barriers need to be overcome to fully realize this potential. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] List back online
Loud and clear. Keith Addison wrote: Hello all The list hit a glitch and went down for a while (about 36 hours I think) but it's fixed now and back in business. If you're reading this, that is, I hope. Sorry about that. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators ; VO ou BD or Blend:Small System MODEL
Dear Pannirselvam, Thanks for the detailed response. I gather that there is good opportunity to add to the experimentally established results on castor based biodiesel and the blends that might work well. I'm right now exploring a tie-up with one of the govt research labs and an agricultural university here in India to set up a small research project. Your inputs are very helpful for me to determine how to set the scope of the project.There is a lot of hard selling on jatropha going on around here. My purpose is to match the results (FUD?) available on jatropha based agrofuel number by number with results on castor based fuel. I posted a message last Sunday on the local scenario here regarding the new small car Tata Nano, but not sure if it got through to the list. Chandan Pagandai Pannirselvam wrote: Dear Chandan and all the list member Even though I am in Brazil ,which export the meat very large , I actualy live in the native place of south American Indians, even though I also india from south India as you pointed out , Today the Festival Pongal not only in Tamil nadu state , but also in Singapure ,Malaysia, , as Cattle the animal are well treated as the make sustainable living possible , not the machine tractor .Thus based on this old , we may think of ruralise modern mega cities with plants , animals all mixed like what happend in the road to new Delhi railway station . The Indian ways and approach are always rural ecological and sustainable bio systems sotaht several unemployed people can make biofuel from this mega city. Alcohol stove , simple briquete made using animal waste can make possible a true `Pongal festivel for all the citizen of the big city Coming to your question the mixture formulation we ARRIVED after 17 year of study to sue ethanol in compression engine is based on the two hypothesis as you pointed out : the micro emulsion USING SURFACTANT BD (alcohol, BD , Petro Diesel) and the co solvent effect , where as the amount of BD need not to be very high compared to the micro emulsion method , as this need more amount of BD and equipment too for making emulsion with an energy intensive process. We came to this new useful biofuel product formula not only by hypothesis , but using system engineering methods We do look for simulated experiments results by google search to validate our hypothesis and models .As Keith has pointed out some German group who also work with vegetable oil have also reported this blend as the one work too , yet not much details . Two years ago we worked out this biofuel blend , but we are not able to go further experiments wiith lack of funds.We wish to have fresh look on what Keith has told about the use of Ethanol and Castor oil , the the successful experiments done in Brazil the ready avilable raw material in Brazil. The Brazilian PETROBRAS has made patent on BD making diretly from Castor seeds and make viable the process by coproducts values , so that Brazil wish to be the Big Biofuel Producer of the world ( See who will be the world big player of BD in future here in this list and also in our recent wiki http://www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/ (www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com ) To be very clear to ver question , we can say that not that our work is hypothesis , but an system model , little proved yet we need much proven practical results, as we have very little evidence and I am very sorry to inform that much detailed studies not have been done , but we are on the half way. Our work is indeed very limited to the time and money as an all Academic University based sysem study, as Keith always refer it to be more limited , but we are unable to go till the end , but stay in the halfway..Rarely good fund is made as we get good results, as fund is over the good results cant be turned into more useful and we wish to go further. There are two known method or way to make rural energy , use VO , or BD , but for small system project we can think of one more way the hybrid one the biofuel blend .In this new approach we can use BD very less as it is also as an good co solvent additives and surfactant , thus we can have less problems with adoption of motor with this new biofuel blend compared to VO and as this need less energy, as BD making is not simple , but a complex one to be done in village level .The big compnay can make BD,the small farmer can thus can make his own localy made biofuel blend , to aviod the economic exploition of the big oil companies .Both the public and private oil company want to exploit the smal farmer buying the oil very cheap and selling the fuel very high .Thus sustainable food will not be possible with is present system ,as well documented by Keith in recent post here in our list . More over vegetable oil use can be economic problem as the price are
Re: [Biofuel] We need these cars *#
Hi All, As one can guess, there has been quite a deluge of coverage in the media around here (in India) about the new Tata Nano. There seems little doubt that millions of these cute little bugs will be on the road in the next 2-3 years (unless a tough-to-fix major snag surfaces, which seems somewhat unlikely). The effective price might creep up a little in future by keeping the market supply of base versions low and selling more of the luxury versions, etc. Prices of other small cars in the market will also have to drop a little to stay competitive. All put together, it is widely believed that the appearance of the Tata Nano will surely cause a much larger number of the so-called middle and lower middle income group (who presently use two wheeler scooters and motorbikes and public transport) to switch to small cars (whether the Tata Nano or some other) than if the Tata Nano didn't happen. I see a gleeful estimate in a financial newspaper today that 30% more Indian families than before are likely to own cars as a result of the Nano. Wait a minute! Get that right. It's not 30% of the Indian population, 80% of the people live on $2 a day according to statistics, we aren't talking about them, you see. It's 30% of the people who could afford a car even before the Nano. There are many practical reasons why small affordable cars are attractive to a lot of people around here. The entire industry and the govt are putting all their might behind boosting people's consumption in all spheres anyway (completely ignoring sustainability issues, as usual, because as we all know from the wonderful examples of the western world, more consumption means more development). Hard to ignore round-the-clock battering of car ads on tv. And there are practical reasons as well, in many parts of the country, it rains heavily or sporadically during 4-8 months of the year, and there's scorching sun during another 4, so the attraction of a covered carriage instead of a two-wheeler as personal conveyance for low-income people in a hurry to make the best out of a booming economy is obvious. Environmentalists have not so far been very vocal on the Tata Nano and its impact except one or two isolated statements (such as this critical one by Pachauri http://www.rediff.com/money/2007/dec/17car.htm that received a lot of press). One reason for the low key attention the Nano has received from Indian environmentalists could be the stealth mode that the Tatas managed to maintain during the development phase. Very little information about the exact specs or emission ratings are available even now after the launch except for high level statements that it would be compliant with all emission and safety standards. I suppose a pretty obvious general counterbalance measure to the boom in the Indian auto industry will be to significantly increase the taxes on all cars and use the revenue to incentivize the use of public transport, bicycles, and walking. There is no place on the city roads to drive anyway, a 10 km drive through any large city routinely takes 60-90 minutes. But who's bothered about that in this time of growth and development? One simple example. There are hundreds of fly-overs being constructed in all the big cities around the country to ease the traffic congestion at major road junctions. I'm yet to see one which has made sidewalk provisions for pedestrians to walk on them. It seems the designers somehow forgot the pedestrians, even though there are more people on foot out there at any instant than are in cars, boom or no boom. Forgot the pedestrians?! It's pretty amusing (if it wasn't so depressing) to see today's newspaper with the front page full of glorification of the Tata Nano and in the inside pages a news item about the traffic cops in a big city mulling the idea of enforcing alternate day use of cars (odd number plates on odd dates, even on even) and hiking the parking fees manifold to cope with the traffic congestion crisis. Time to go get your second car with a different oddity number plate! And don't ever park. Since you can employ a full-time driver for a pittance, ask him to keep driving in circles around the block while you finish your shopping at the new jazzy big retail store, that's cheaper than parking. LOL? No, seriously! I myself know people who commit this horror routinely, and I don't know a lot of people in a city of 7 million. No wonder not just the parking lots, even the roads around the new big retail stores are full of cars all the time. One columnist even wrote that condemning the low priced Tata Nano because of the additional pollution these cars would add to the environment was 'elitist' and 'hypocritical' because the rich, the high income, and the upper middle income group folks who already drove cars didn't want the common man to have a car. Therefore we must promote the Nano and fight pollution at the same time. Go
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators or BD or Blend
Pannirselvam, Happy New Year to you from India. Good to see your mail after a long time, but I'm quite confused by it. I thought Keith only reported what YOU wrote earlier on 9/25/2006 (regarding mixing ~20% BD and 5-10% ethanol into (fresh/used) VO to reduce viscosity). Could you please specifically clarify if you or your associates have actually made this kind of mixture work or if you have seen this being done or if you are making a hypothesis that needs experimental verification? Thanks and regards. Chandan Pagandai Pannirselvam wrote: snip Based on what Keith has reported recently, castor oil 20 % can be used to 80 % ethanol hydrated ,I am sure again a significant amount of ethanol can be replaced using SVO with viscosity as the limit,thus there will not be no need for BD in rural areas to run generator. Milled Castor beans can be used extract ethanol from water , then pressed , mixed with the SVO , so taht the engine can run with out engine modification and also without the expensive BD . snip Yours truely Pagandai V pannirselvam 2008/1/7, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello Tom Hello All, On 9/25/06 Pagandai Pannirselvan wrote: The small co generation of electrical energy based on the bio diesel can make possible the use of pure used vegetable oil and also some e 5 porcent hydrated ethanol , making possible to lower the viscosity of used vegetable oil in deiesel engine, removing dependence with Conventional deisel. Thus the blend of used vegetable oil 70 percent, hyrated ethanol 10 percent and biodeisel 20 porcent can be used with less problem for motor maintainence in rural areas. He says with less problem, I'm not sure if that means without problem but it might do. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor :-) Chris Tan wrote: Hi Gustl and Ken, If kerosene and GASOLINE is used, then what they may be doing is diluting the vegetable oil to lower viscosity and lessen the likelihood of injector snip... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Interesting sites
Couldn't find these links in the archives... http://www.systemfehler.de/en/ http://www.sott.net/ Happy browsing. Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable
An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071116/6d5bf5a9/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Saving yourself from the search engines
Some of you may be interested in this article: http://news.com.com/FAQ+Protecting+yourself+from+search+engines/2100-1025_3-6103486.html?tag=st.prev Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Distributed computing and climate prediction
Check out http://boinc.berkeley.edu/. If you are the kind whose computer is running most of the time even if you aren't using a lot of compute-heavy applications, you may like to join some of the projects listed at the boinc site. They come with some great screen savers. Cheers. Chandan Mike Redler wrote: Thanks David. This is a great idea! I did a quick search for other similar schemes (i.e. SETI, etc.) and found: http://distributedcomputing.info Apparently, this is getting popular with some applications. Is this is the end of supercomputers as we know it? On a similar note: I've always wanted to get a bunch of old computers and have them parallel process across an Ethernet hub to achieve a similar objective (except without the need for prioritizing like distributed computing requires). I never did enough research to actually follow through with a plan or determine if it's even worth the work. -Redler David Kramer wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/hottopics/climatechange/moreaboutexperiment1.shtml Distributed computing and climate prediction ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics
Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail... this converter is Windoz sw. Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it. Chandan Chandan Haldar wrote: Keith, You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter: http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or pdf formats. As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio file to try it out. Cheers. Chandan Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. He said: the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may convert to html. We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file? Thanks much Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable
Some of my friends here in India (who know more about agriculture than I do) would have me believe that traditionally castor oilseed cakes are allowed to decompose by soaking in a little water for a couple of weeks and then put back into the soil as fertilizer (same as done with mustard oilseed cakes). Apparently it is a very effective organic fertilizer and no ill effects seem to be manifest in the use of the resulting crops. I see no reason to blindly believe that traditional methods are always free of bad effects, however, I understand that castor is a native plant species of India, therefore this practice could well be thousands of years old. May be we have developed an ability to digest ricin :-). Chandan Keith Addison wrote: unsnip from previous By using one step simultaneous extraction and esterification , the patented process use crushed seeds to make four products , the BioD , the glycerol , the protein, carbohydrate that seem to deintoxicated for animal feed is now being scaled up to big pilot plant. /unsnip I interpreted this to mean that the crushed seeds are subjected to the alkali catalyst/methanol hence the seedcake is exposed to the reaction. I've seen papers other papers discuss simultaneous extraction/reaction with soya bean flakes. the problem was that much more methanol is need to extract the oil during the processing into biodiesel, partly due to the moisture content of the beans. I'm sure you're right Bob, I have several of those papers. Good explanation, sorry I didn't get it first time. I was looking at other information to check where the ricin was. Thanks! Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: How To Steal an Election
Leave them in front. Left Behind, aarghh! LOL! I wouldn't say more docile though, after all a docile populace is the ideal of our noble leaders, uh, rulers, and captains of industry and commerce, it makes it so much easier to manufacture our consent. Make it less aggressive rather. Aggressive has become a positive word these days, for how you go about your sales campaign or whatever. It's not positive, it's a response based on fear. Three authors come to my mind in this context whose writings I enjoyed. One is of course good old Desmond Morris. His trilogy The Naked Ape, The Human Zoo, and Intimate Behavior, and his *-watching series are quite entertaining. The Human Zoo's description of modern man essentially as a neurotic caged animal is compelling. Caveat: Some of my anthropology-literate friends find Morris' work to be more of popular writing than serious analysis. More recently, I find Daniel Quinn's Ishmael series of books and Beyond Civilization very nice and readable. His description of the aggressive takers (and of the givers) seems natural. His conjectures about certain historical turning points are interesting. For a glimpse of mathematical analysis (primarily based upon game theory and quite readable for non-mathematicians) of the emergence of cooperation as a behavioral model amongst populations, Robert Axelrod's The Evolution of Cooperation and The Complexity of Cooperation are excellent readings. Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Seeking experience to produce biodiesel from Castor
Anyone care to share any experiences with castor oil based biodiesel brewing using small-scale plants? I am told that castor oil dissolves in alcohols and external heating is eliminated from the process. I'm also hearing conjectures that castor based biodiesel will not freeze even below -20 deg C. Any pointers to more specific info along these lines? I'll get to my own brewing/learning experiments soon (and I'll start with proven processes and materials described on J2FE), but we could do with as much existing wisdom as we can get our hands on, especially because what we want to get into out here is not only for our personal consumption. Many thanks in advance for any help. Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals
David, Since you have done so much, may I request you to also put up chooped up 50MB chunks for easier downloading of this monster? It'd certainly help those without reliable uninterrupted connectivity beyond a couple of hours at a time. Thanks a lot. Really appreciate your effort to get this to all. Chandan David Miller wrote: OK! Kirk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) got a full copy of it and we got it onto my server today. If you have winzip, pkzip, or gzip and can uncompress a file, save a bit of bandwidth on the full ISO with: http://renegade.sparks.net/cd3wd.iso.gz (471 MB) If you just need the raw ISO file, click on: http://renegade.sparks.net/cd3wd.iso (694 MB) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Prices of commercial biodiesel
Atul, I appreciate your frustration. But it shouldn't be a surprise that competing with an established utility scale monster such as fossil fuel requires the economics of the alternative to be at least as efficient (apart from its other non-financial merits). I'm under the impression that we'll soon see BD blends being sold in retail auto fuel outlets in India by more than one of the Indian big-oil guys, from both govt and private sectors. They will do it by creating cheap sources of oil using their monetary muscles, by contracting land from the govt, for example. I'm trying to understand how a third kind of enterprises, for example, a federation of distributed small coops of farmers assisted by technology hackers, might possibly be enabled to directly participate in this new market opportunity for concrete and immediate benefit to the local rural communities that the coops represent. Chandan atul malhotra wrote: dear chandan.. there pretty much nothing u can do abt BD procurement in india as of date .i have spent abt a ayr and a half and have run my car and engines on BD or blends..but thats abt it the commercial aspect of it is pretty much a dismal scene here either u have lots of land and patience and dep pockets to plant and wait for the produce...other wise it s apretty much no go. heart breaking ...but we r a country of shocking losers and we contniue to ignore the gifts of natur e and keep leading ridiculous lives. write back to me i might be able to help u in sum aspects at least atul. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Prices of commercial biodiesel
I'm looking for info on commercial biodiesel prices (B100 or blends). Info or pointers to info from any part of the world will be relevant. I live in India and to my knowledge there isn't any retail (or wholesale) sales channel for biodiesel in India at the moment, although it seems there will be a lot of action in this area very soon. Trying to get a feel for what kind of pricelines these players will be playing for and how they will compete with petrodiesel in terms of prices. (Yes, I know biodiesel isn't all just about prices, and I have scanned parts of the J2FE site, but I'd still like to understand the retail or wholesale prices that are in use elsewhere). Thanks for your help. May be we can find (or even build) a live global catalog of prices... will be a cool reference to have... Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Exactly the whole point of the definition in the hackers dictionary. Thanks, Jeromie. Anyway, I can't pretend to be a hacker (however honorable the true meaning of the term may be). Sorry to disappoint all hoping to meet a Matrix character in real life. Chandan Jeromie Reeves wrote: Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
GNU Emacs has this nice little diversion in its mail handling facility: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/Mail-Amusements.html#Mail-Amusements Some samples of what it can automatically add to the end of a mail is at the end of this mail. Joe, sorry to disappoint uncle S, but I didn't write that and I don't live in patriot act territory either. The bottomline is as Keith has summarized nicely already. A good way of looking at the post-modern hacker community is as the IT dept of the second superpower. May the force be with them. :-) Cheers. Chandan unclassified Roswell Indigo FSF kilo class bce Comirex Steve Case SWAT clones ANDVT explosion Aldergrove S Key S Box JFK BATF passwd MD5 Crypto AG Jiang Zemin ANDVT Craig Livingstone Juiliett Class Submarine JPL Chobetsu CIDA Ortega explosion high security AGT. AMME industrial intelligence UOP jihad broadside COSCO Comirex sniper ISEC militia offensive information warfare Ceridian bootleg JSOFC3IP government ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
I must quickly add that I didn't mean to suggest using Emacs for email. It was a great mail env once for text based email, but probably won't be suitable for normal email usage today (with html, graphics, attachments, etc). Chandan Chandan Haldar wrote: GNU Emacs has this nice little diversion in its mail handling facility: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/Mail-Amusements.html#Mail-Amusements Some samples of what it can automatically add to the end of a mail is at the end of this mail. Joe, sorry to disappoint uncle S, but I didn't write that and I don't live in patriot act territory either. The bottomline is as Keith has summarized nicely already. A good way of looking at the post-modern hacker community is as the IT dept of the second superpower. May the force be with them. :-) Cheers. Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Here's the 'Hacker' entry in Eric Raymond's The Hackers Dictionary (aka the jargon file): http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/H/hacker.html Having been deep in that world for a while now, I see today's hacker community as a highly heterogeneous community with a variety of views revolving around knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights (primarily as these relate to software and systems, but hey, "freedom" frequently looks similar in different contexts, and "bio-diesel hacker" should be a very honorable description for someone making bio-diesel and thus defending one's freedom to not use fossil fuel). Notice that the sense of "malicious meddler" for "hacker" has been deprecated (obsolete) and demoted to 8th place in the THD entry for hacker (but retained for historical reasons). So the rogue elements are not really part of the hacker community. THD is maintained by "hackers", so this can be considered a self-fulfilling assessment. Our definition of the hacker community can be as loose as we want, but as long as the basic elements of knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights are included in it, it should be very hard to find similarities between the post-modern hacker community with a beast like the CIA. If anyone tries to throttle the internet to death, the hacker community will create workarounds quickly and without fail (an instance of the second superpower defending itself against unprovoked aggression). Hakuna matata. Chandan Michael Redler wrote: ... "Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?)" I find it extremely interesting how a society which is developing on an entirely different plane (and without any political hierarchy)can so closely resemble one which we are so accustomed to in the physical world. The hacker community has taken on behaviors which also resemble those of the CIA (for example). Both act on a certain ideology, are motivated largely by a resistance to be controlled (i.e. "sticking it to the 'man'"), feel a sense of community and pride. Last but not least, the intelligence community of every superpoweris somewhat troubled by various rogue elements. I don't want to portray hackers as people I admire - only as people who show familiar patterns of behavior when looked at in groups. One of my favorite examples is how they collectively express their position on Microsoft and during the earlier days of the Internet, how so many government and large corporations were the main targets. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Marula (Scelerocarya birrea) was Jatropha Curcas
The pulp of this fruit is also the main raw material for the Amarula Cream liquor (www.amarula.com) which is somewhat similar in taste to Bailey's Irish Cream (and priced about the same in retail), but with a distinct flavor of its own. Cheers. Chandan Duncan Mills wrote: Hi, I had an interesting meeting this morning with someone who is extracting oil from the marula nut (Scelerocarya birrea). Have a look at www.marula.org.za for more information on this - google it and you'll find a whole lot of other really good info. Apparently you can get 10 trees/ha, 2000tpa/ha of fruit, 30% of which is nut and 25% of nut is oil, this is hearsay and needs to be confirmed (anyone got a reference?). They are indigenous and all over the Limpopo Province, the fruit pulp (used for brewing a form of beer, gives me a headache) is prized above the nut, although there is a market for the oil. It may be a better option compared with Jatropha - you could probably get the oil by tomorrow. I'm going to get some and make a few test batches. Regards, Duncan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
