[Biofuel] Forgive me, but

2010-06-14 Thread Jim Chalker 
Ladies and Gentlemen (presuming there are some members of the fairer sex 
in this group),

The welcome you have given me into this community by the numerous 
responses to my initial inquiry is as surprising as it is heartwarming.  
I am going to try to respond to as many of you as I can.  But I have one 
small favor to ask, both as a "newbie" to this discipline and as a 
profound lover of the English language.  Can you please go easy on the 
acronyms.  When I first started as a semiconductor development engineer 
with IBM (International Business Machines Corp) I remember it seemed 
like it was a year or so before I could sit in a staff meeting and 
understand everything being discussed because of all the acronyms.  I 
guess I'm not that smart because it takes me a long time to learn them 
and I'm in a new job dealing with a rich new set of them as it is.

I want you all to know, as well, that I have not yet taken a side in 
this debate.  I am listening to you, and I am listening to the algae 
growers, I hope with an unbiased ear toward each.  And the trick is that 
I don't have very long to take a decision.  It looks like algae has 
demonstrated astonishing growth in laboratory experiments.  The question 
is, is it scalable?  You people are passionate in your insistence that 
it is not.  I hope you are wrong.

Don't take that personally.  My first concern is for jobs here in Adams 
County.  If algae can translate into jobs, then I'm going to work to 
bring it here.  Besides I think eventually we are going to have to find 
realistic alternatives to fossil fuels.  Many of you seem to want people 
to modify their behaviors.  That's laudable.  But I am afraid you 
overlook the devastating contraction of the world economy that will 
accompany a huge loss of energy.  I am not convinced we can conserve our 
way out of the impending crunch.

That isn't to dismiss your ideas about dispersed generation and such.  
Those are worthy.  But ultimately can we sustain a modern economy 
without vast and transportable forms of energy?  I am yet to be 
persuaded that we can.  Still, I am not interested in subscribing to 
fairy tales if that's all the biofuels industry has to offer.  I really 
want to get this right.  So know all of you that I am listening to you.  
But I am looking for data, not extrapolations.  So I'll put you to the 
same test I'll put to them.  Show me where your ideas have been scaled 
up.  (Boy did I just open up the flood gates!)  And show me where I can 
go for the resources (equipment and supplies as well as knowledge) to 
see this actually make a difference here where I live.

Then give me at least a week to deal with the flood of e-mails I expect 
to receive after this.  And allow me to come down somewhere in between 
if that is where I land.

Sincerely Yours,

Jim Chalker
Director of Economic Development
Adams County, Ohio

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Re: [Biofuel] Forgive me, but

2010-06-14 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/14/2010 3:09 PM, Dawie Coetzee wrote:
> "But I have one small favor to ask, both as a "newbie" to this discipline and 
> as a profound lover of the English language.  Can you please go easy on the 
> acronyms. "
>
> I'm no fan of TLA's myself ...-Dawie
>
>
>   
>
>
>
> 
> From: Jim Chalker<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 17:51:44
> Subject: [Biofuel] Forgive me, but
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen (presuming there are some members of the fairer sex
> in this group),
>
> The welcome you have given me into this community by the numerous
> responses to my initial inquiry is as surprising as it is heartwarming. 
> I am going to try to respond to as many of you as I can.  But I have one
> small favor to ask, both as a "newbie" to this discipline and as a
> profound lover of the English language.  Can you please go easy on the
> acronyms.  When I first started as a semiconductor development engineer
> with IBM (International Business Machines Corp) I remember it seemed
> like it was a year or so before I could sit in a staff meeting and
> understand everything being discussed because of all the acronyms.  I
> guess I'm not that smart because it takes me a long time to learn them
> and I'm in a new job dealing with a rich new set of them as it is.
>
> I want you all to know, as well, that I have not yet taken a side in
> this debate.  I am listening to you, and I am listening to the algae
> growers, I hope with an unbiased ear toward each.  And the trick is that
> I don't have very long to take a decision.  It looks like algae has
> demonstrated astonishing growth in laboratory experiments.  The question
> is, is it scalable?  You people are passionate in your insistence that
> it is not.  I hope you are wrong.
>
> Don't take that personally.  My first concern is for jobs here in Adams
> County.  If algae can translate into jobs, then I'm going to work to
> bring it here.  Besides I think eventually we are going to have to find
> realistic alternatives to fossil fuels.  Many of you seem to want people
> to modify their behaviors.  That's laudable.  But I am afraid you
> overlook the devastating contraction of the world economy that will
> accompany a huge loss of energy.  I am not convinced we can conserve our
> way out of the impending crunch.
>
> That isn't to dismiss your ideas about dispersed generation and such. 
> Those are worthy.  But ultimately can we sustain a modern economy
> without vast and transportable forms of energy?  I am yet to be
> persuaded that we can.  Still, I am not interested in subscribing to
> fairy tales if that's all the biofuels industry has to offer.  I really
> want to get this right.  So know all of you that I am listening to you. 
> But I am looking for data, not extrapolations.  So I'll put you to the
> same test I'll put to them.  Show me where your ideas have been scaled
> up.  (Boy did I just open up the flood gates!)  And show me where I can
> go for the resources (equipment and supplies as well as knowledge) to
> see this actually make a difference here where I live.
>
> Then give me at least a week to deal with the flood of e-mails I expect
> to receive after this.  And allow me to come down somewhere in between
> if that is where I land.
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Jim Chalker
> Director of Economic Development
> Adams County, Ohio
>
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>
LOL!

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[Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-15 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/15/2010 3:39 AM, Jason Mier wrote:
> I have some questions about your project/situation:
>
>
>
> 1. What are your restrictions? (regulations, budget, public "mood", etc.)
>
> 2. Is this a County project, or are you only going to be offering 
> grants/incentives?
>
> 3. Is your department merely coordinating, or do you have a direct influence 
> such as engineering or contract handling?
>   
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Jason,

1.  Virtually nothing in the way of legal restrictions.  Public mood is 
being sculpted (maybe... but toward what?  I'm no longer certain myself))
2.  No plans for incentives at this time.  May revisit that question if 
things heat up.
3.  May have some influence if someone decides to locate an operation 
here.  To be honest biofuels is starting to look like a flop.  I can't 
find any way to make the numbers work.  Yields are too low and prices 
also.  It may be another couple of centuries till this stuff "floats" 
(pardon the pun).

Jim

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Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-16 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/16/2010 2:36 AM, Jason Mier wrote:
> Maybe you're looking at it from the wrong angle. If you're having trouble 
> drawing business, try growing your own.
>
>
>
> Have you ever considered an advanced credit program for the highschool? Maybe 
> you could work with the University Board and the Ag Extension office to allow 
> a couple of college credits for participating. Most kids I know would jump at 
> the chance to play with chemicals, and transesterfication is a very visible 
> reaction when done properly.
>
>
>
> You could get the shop classes involved with manufacturing the containment 
> system, the chem classes for the process, if you insist there needs to be any 
> automation, you can get computer classes involved.
>
>
>
> The Ag department in my old HS has a test plot- if there can be anything like 
> that for you, you can even get them involved.
>
>
>
> Judging by the state profile of your county, I'm guessing the average 
> combined class size should be about 375. I see you have a tech school as 
> well, very nice.(hint-hint)
>
>
>
> If you want I can dig through the curricula for all the schools and build a 
> list of prereq's. Make it a senior year project.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Jason,
>>
>> 1. Virtually nothing in the way of legal restrictions. Public mood is
>> being sculpted (maybe... but toward what? I'm no longer certain myself))
>> 2. No plans for incentives at this time. May revisit that question if
>> things heat up.
>> 3. May have some influence if someone decides to locate an operation
>> here. To be honest biofuels is starting to look like a flop. I can't
>> find any way to make the numbers work. Yields are too low and prices
>> also. It may be another couple of centuries till this stuff "floats"
>> (pardon the pun).
>>
>> Jim
>>
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>>  
>   
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This may be the first practical idea I have heard.

Jim

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Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-16 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/16/2010 11:20 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
> That's a great quote:
>
> "To be honest biofuels is starting to look like a flop."
>
> In June 2010??
>
> LOL!!
>
> Surely it belongs here:
>
> "How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take?"
> 
>
> Nice counterpoint to Pan's "Small is beautifuel."
>
> Meanwhile, strength to yer arm, Jason.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>> On 6/15/2010 3:39 AM, Jason Mier wrote:
>>   >  I have some questions about your project/situation:
>>   >
>>  
>>>   1. What are your restrictions? (regulations, budget, public "mood", etc.)
>>>
>>>   2. Is this a County project, or are you only going to be offering
>>> grants/incentives?
>>>
>>>
>>   >  3. Is your department merely coordinating, or do you have a
>> direct influence such as engineering or contract handling?
>>   >
>> Jason,
>>
>> 1.  Virtually nothing in the way of legal restrictions.  Public mood is
>> being sculpted (maybe... but toward what?  I'm no longer certain myself))
>> 2.  No plans for incentives at this time.  May revisit that question if
>> things heat up.
>> 3.  May have some influence if someone decides to locate an operation
>> here.  To be honest biofuels is starting to look like a flop.  I can't
>> find any way to make the numbers work.  Yields are too low and prices
>> also.  It may be another couple of centuries till this stuff "floats"
>> (pardon the pun).
>>
>> Jim
>>  
>
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>
>
Really!  I kind of thought the "couple of centuries" quote was better.

Jim

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Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-16 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/16/2010 12:37 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
>>   >
>> Really!  I kind of thought the "couple of centuries" quote was better.
>>  
> Naah, that's just whimsical/sarcastic. The other one was genuine.
>
> This one's quite good though:
>
>
>> This may be the first practical idea I have heard.
>>  
> Plenty of practical ideas have been offered. So what's
> non-negotiable? Central control?
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>> Jim
>>
>> On 6/16/2010 11:20 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
>>  
>>>   That's a great quote:
>>>
>>>   "To be honest biofuels is starting to look like a flop."
>>>
>>>   In June 2010??
>>>
>>>   LOL!!
>>>
>>>   Surely it belongs here:
>>>
>>>   "How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take?"
>>>   
>>>
>>>   Nice counterpoint to Pan's "Small is beautifuel."
>>>
>>>   Meanwhile, strength to yer arm, Jason.
>>>
>>>   Best
>>>
>>>   Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
   On 6/15/2010 3:39 AM, Jason Mier wrote:
 >   I have some questions about your project/situation:
 >

  
> 1. What are your restrictions? (regulations, budget, public
> "mood", etc.)
>
> 2. Is this a County project, or are you only going to be offering
>   grants/incentives?
>
>
>
 >   3. Is your department merely coordinating, or do you have a
   direct influence such as engineering or contract handling?
 >
   Jason,

   1.  Virtually nothing in the way of legal restrictions.  Public mood is
   being sculpted (maybe... but toward what?  I'm no longer certain myself))
   2.  No plans for incentives at this time.  May revisit that question if
   things heat up.
   3.  May have some influence if someone decides to locate an operation
   here.  To be honest biofuels is starting to look like a flop.  I can't
   find any way to make the numbers work.  Yields are too low and prices
   also.  It may be another couple of centuries till this stuff "floats"
   (pardon the pun).

  
>>   >>  Jim
>>   >
>> Really!  I kind of thought the "couple of centuries" quote was better.
>>
>> Jim
>>  
>
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Actually the couple of centuries was not intended to come off as 
sarcastic.  At some point fossil fuels are going to become exceedingly 
costly as supplies dwindle.  That might create a natural market for 
biofuels instead of the synthetic ones we try to create through 
legislation, regulation, and treaties.  I was being genuine.  But let's 
quit beating this horse.

Jim

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Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-17 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/17/2010 4:23 AM, Jason Mier wrote:
> ok, peebles' website seems to be bugged, i can't access it from my work 
> computer (might want to hit up their sysadmin on that). west union doesn't 
> have a whole lot of information as far as classes, but north adams has their 
> coursebook available.
>
>
>
> on that note, i suggest;
>
>
> Algebra 2, and either Chemistry, or the Environmental Science class as 
> prerequisites.
>
>
>
> i think the Chem class would be more appropriate, but the EnvoSci class 
> already has a section on biofuels. Of course if this actually happens, it 
> might be easier to take over the biofuel/ecology section entirely and roll in 
> an advanced chem segment as well
>
> (woohoo! upgrade!). Plus, a lot of the accounting and economics classes I see 
> here might reasonably be applied to your goals...
>
>
>
>
>
> the math is necessary, because... well, chemistry is math, no way around it.
>
>
>
> Interested yet?
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:09:53 -0400
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions
>>
>> On 6/16/2010 2:36 AM, Jason Mier wrote:
>>  
>>> Maybe you're looking at it from the wrong angle. If you're having trouble 
>>> drawing business, try growing your own.
>>> Have you ever considered an advanced credit program for the highschool? 
>>> Maybe you could work with the University Board and the Ag Extension office 
>>> to allow a couple of college credits for participating. Most kids I know 
>>> would jump at the chance to play with chemicals, and transesterfication is 
>>> a very visible reaction when done properly.
>>> You could get the shop classes involved with manufacturing the containment 
>>> system, the chem classes for the process, if you insist there needs to be 
>>> any automation, you can get computer classes involved.
>>> The Ag department in my old HS has a test plot- if there can be anything 
>>> like that for you, you can even get them involved.
>>> Judging by the state profile of your county, I'm guessing the average 
>>> combined class size should be about 375. I see you have a tech school as 
>>> well, very nice.(hint-hint)
>>> If you want I can dig through the curricula for all the schools and build a 
>>> list of prereq's. Make it a senior year project.
>>>
>>  
>
>> This may be the first practical idea I have heard.
>>
>> Jim
>>  
>   
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I have already begun discussing this idea with th local community 
college.  Thay are interested in partnering with local schools on this.  
I am going to continue on this.  I think it might lead somewhere.

Jim

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Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-17 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote:
> jim, i posed some questions early on, which i'm glad to see you
> answered (in part) when responding to jason.  it would still help to
> know what sort of funds you have to work with.  whether it be your
> economic development budget, or other funding streams which might be
> under the control of other administrators, but which you could
> influence in your capacity to coordinate programs.  there are almost
> certainly grant monies which you could bring in as well.  not to
> mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate
> money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise) to the
> cause.  i would encourage you, if you haven't already, to explore all
> of this.  you might be surprised by what you can pull together.  that
> said, in my opinion fritz (i think it was fritz) and jason are on the
> right track.  and i wouldn't stop at biofuels.  wind, solar, even
> small scale hydro.  all of these things require research (i.e. what
> are the wind, water power, and biomass resources in your area).  this
> is where your community colleges, tecnical schools and so on would
> play a key role.  when it comes to actually put shovels in the ground,
> so to speak, lots of materials are to be had for next to nothing at
> your local scrap metal yard or trash dump.  i could go on, but the
> point is, there is much you can do that doesn't hinge entirely on
> whether or not some outside entity decides to bring their venture,
> which might or might succed, to your neighborhood.
>
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Chris,

/"it would still help to know what sort of funds you have to work with"/

None of which I know.  But we have a state USDA director who is very 
excited about algae.  I'll see how interested he might be.  From there 
I'll go looking.

/"not to mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate 
money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise"/

I have been in touch with a VP at AlgaeVenture.  My governor's regional 
director has promised me that the two of us are going up there to meet 
with them.  Be sure I'll bring the matter up for discussion.  There is 
another firm out west with whose president I have also been 
corresponding.  I think either firm might take a project like this under 
its wings as long as no investment was being sought.  (These guys are 
all looking for money themselves)

/"and i wouldn't stop at biofuels.  wind, solar, even small scale hydro"/

And let's not forget there are other uses for algae, animal feedstock, 
cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, etc.  As for wind, southern Ohio is a very 
poor place for wind.  PV  solar is being explored here.  We are having 
trouble getting farmers to offer suitable land for lease for solar 
farms.  Looking at rooftop deployment, limited footprint available.  I 
keep plugging, though I am not a particular fan of PV, even though my 
senior project in engineering school was on PV and I worked in the 
semicinductor industry for years.  It's just too expensive yet.  
Scientists and engineers are working on bringing up the efficiency but 
all their solutions look terribly expensive to me.  Still we can hope.

I want all of you to know that you have me looking at this from a new 
angle.  It was flawed thinking to hope that I could attract a business 
here.  This locally focused, locally grown concept sounds much more 
viable.  We could start by educating a core group of local young people, 
light a fire under them and be ready to step in and help them in any way 
we can.  Then let's see what they can get done.  And don't castigate me 
for focusing too much on algae.  It's just that it offers the greatest 
opportunity for serious learning.

I have a broadband deployment meeting to go to (see I actually do have 
legitimate work to do - Ha).  I need to take off.  I see I am still 
getting new e-mails.  I am beginning to suspect this is a coordinated 
effort to overwhelm me.  But I appreciate your help, all of you.

Jim

P.S.  Small scale hydro, huh?  That might deserve a look.







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Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-17 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
> Jim
>
>
>> I see I am still
>> getting new e-mails.  I am beginning to suspect this is a coordinated
>> effort to overwhelm me.
>>  
> I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two
> latest messages in the discussion are both from you.
>
> As the list "owner", I know of no emails sent to you other than those
> sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list
> archives, here:
> 
>
> My initial message introducing you to the list said "Please respond
> onlist, not direct to Jim (he's a list member now)."
>
> If you are receiving offlist messages that you would rather not be
> receiving, please let me know (off-list) and I will see what can be
> done to put a stop to it.
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> KYOTO Pref., Japan
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> Biofuel list owner
>
>
>
>> On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote:
>>  
>>>   jim, i posed some questions early on, which i'm glad to see you
>>>   answered (in part) when responding to jason.  it would still help to
>>>   know what sort of funds you have to work with.  whether it be your
>>>   economic development budget, or other funding streams which might be
>>>   under the control of other administrators, but which you could
>>>   influence in your capacity to coordinate programs.  there are almost
>>>   certainly grant monies which you could bring in as well.  not to
>>>   mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate
>>>   money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise) to the
>>>   cause.  i would encourage you, if you haven't already, to explore all
>>>   of this.  you might be surprised by what you can pull together.  that
>>>   said, in my opinion fritz (i think it was fritz) and jason are on the
>>>   right track.  and i wouldn't stop at biofuels.  wind, solar, even
>>>   small scale hydro.  all of these things require research (i.e. what
>>>   are the wind, water power, and biomass resources in your area).  this
>>>   is where your community colleges, tecnical schools and so on would
>>>   play a key role.  when it comes to actually put shovels in the ground,
>>>   so to speak, lots of materials are to be had for next to nothing at
>>>   your local scrap metal yard or trash dump.  i could go on, but the
>>>   point is, there is much you can do that doesn't hinge entirely on
>>>   whether or not some outside entity decides to bring their venture,
>>>
>>   >  which might or might succed, to your neighborhood.
>>   >
>> Chris,
>>
>> /"it would still help to know what sort of funds you have to work with"/
>>
>> None of which I know.  But we have a state USDA director who is very
>> excited about algae.  I'll see how interested he might be.  From there
>> I'll go looking.
>>
>> /"not to mention existing local business which might be convinced to
>> donate money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise"/
>>
>> I have been in touch with a VP at AlgaeVenture.  My governor's regional
>> director has promised me that the two of us are going up there to meet
>> with them.  Be sure I'll bring the matter up for discussion.  There is
>> another firm out west with whose president I have also been
>> corresponding.  I think either firm might take a project like this under
>> its wings as long as no investment was being sought.  (These guys are
>> all looking for money themselves)
>>
>> /"and i wouldn't stop at biofuels.  wind, solar, even small scale hydro"/
>>
>> And let's not forget there are other uses for algae, animal feedstock,
>> cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, etc.  As for wind, southern Ohio is a very
>> poor place for wind.  PV  solar is being explored here.  We are having
>> trouble getting farmers to offer suitable land for lease for solar
>> farms.  Looking at rooftop deployment, limited footprint available.  I
>> keep plugging, though I am not a particular fan of PV, even though my
>> senior project in engineering school was on PV and I worked in the
>> semicinductor industry for years.  It's just too expensive yet.
>> Scientists and engineers are working on bringing up the efficiency but
>> all their solutions look terribly expensive to me.  Still we can hope.
>>
>> I want all of you to know that you have me looking at this from a new
>> angle.  It was flawed thinking to hope that I could attract a business
>> here.  This locally focused, locally grown concept sounds much more
>> viable.  We could start by educating a core group of local young people,
>> light a fire under them and be ready to step in and help them in any way
>> we can.  Then let's see what they can get done.  And don't castigate me
>> for focusing too much on algae.  It's just that it offers the greatest
>> opportunity for serious learning.
>>
>> I have a broadband deployment meeting to go to (see I actually do have
>> legitimate work to do - Ha).  I need to take off.  I

Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-18 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/17/2010 5:44 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
> Jim Chalker wrote:
>
>
>> It was a joke!
>>  
> No it wasn't. The tone was light but plaintive, and the words
> "suspect" and "coordinated effort" are terms of accusation, not terms
> that should be thrown about without a care in a public forum. It
> seems you haven't had any offlist emails, so all you're complaining
> about is a mere six emails a day over four days, seven of them from
> you. Hardly overwhelming.
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> KYOTO Pref., Japan
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> Biofuel list owner
>
>
>
>> On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
>>   >  Jim
>>  
>>>
>>   >>  I see I am still
>>  
>>>>   getting new e-mails.  I am beginning to suspect this is a coordinated
>>>>   effort to overwhelm me.
>>>>  
>>   >>
>>  
>>>   I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two
>>>   latest messages in the discussion are both from you.
>>>
>>>   As the list "owner", I know of no emails sent to you other than those
>>>   sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list
>>>   archives, here:
>>>   <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>
>>>
>>>   My initial message introducing you to the list said "Please respond
>>>   onlist, not direct to Jim (he's a list member now)."
>>>
>>>   If you are receiving offlist messages that you would rather not be
>>>   receiving, please let me know (off-list) and I will see what can be
>>>   done to put a stop to it.
>>>
>>>   Keith Addison
>>>   Journey to Forever
>>>   KYOTO Pref., Japan
>>>   http://journeytoforever.org/
>>>   Biofuel list owner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>   On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>> jim, i posed some questions early on, which i'm glad to see you
>>>>> answered (in part) when responding to jason.  it would still help to
>>>>> know what sort of funds you have to work with.  whether it be your
>>>>> economic development budget, or other funding streams which might be
>>>>> under the control of other administrators, but which you could
>>>>> influence in your capacity to coordinate programs.  there are almost
>>>>> certainly grant monies which you could bring in as well.  not to
>>>>> mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate
>>>>> money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise) to the
>>>>> cause.  i would encourage you, if you haven't already, to explore all
>>>>> of this.  you might be surprised by what you can pull together.  that
>>>>> said, in my opinion fritz (i think it was fritz) and jason are on the
>>>>> right track.  and i wouldn't stop at biofuels.  wind, solar, even
>>>>> small scale hydro.  all of these things require research (i.e. what
>>>>> are the wind, water power, and biomass resources in your area).  this
>>>>> is where your community colleges, tecnical schools and so on would
>>>>> play a key role.  when it comes to actually put shovels in the ground,
>>>>> so to speak, lots of materials are to be had for next to nothing at
>>>>> your local scrap metal yard or trash dump.  i could go on, but the
>>>>> point is, there is much you can do that doesn't hinge entirely on
>>>>> whether or not some outside entity decides to bring their venture,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> >   which might or might succed, to your neighborhood.
>>>> >
>>>>   Chris,
>>>>
>>>>   /"it would still help to know what sort of funds you have to work with"/
>>>>
>>>>   None of which I know.  But we have a state USDA director who is very
>>>>   excited about algae.  I'll see how interested he might be.  From there
>>>>   I'll go looking.
>>>>
>>>>   /"not to mention existing local business which might be convinced to
>>>>   donate money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise"/
>>>>
>>>>

Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-18 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/18/2010 9:22 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
> Jim Chalker wrote:
>
>
>> OK,
>>
>> If you are going to accuse me in this fashion
>>  
> It was a straightforward comment, and I didn't expect you to like it,
> but I don't see how you can call it an accusation. The terms of
> accusation were all yours.
>
>
>> please remove me from this
>> mailing list!
>>  
> I'm afraid you have to do that yourself. The unsubscribe details are
> in the headers of every message you receive from the list. You'll
> need your password, which you were sent when you were subscribed. If
> you didn't see it or lost it you can have it emailed to you.
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> KYOTO Pref., Japan
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> Biofuel list owner
>
>
>
>> Jim
>>
>> On 6/17/2010 5:44 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
>>   >  Jim Chalker wrote:
>>  
>>>
>>   >>  It was a joke!
>>  
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>   No it wasn't. The tone was light but plaintive, and the words
>>>   "suspect" and "coordinated effort" are terms of accusation, not terms
>>>   that should be thrown about without a care in a public forum. It
>>>   seems you haven't had any offlist emails, so all you're complaining
>>>   about is a mere six emails a day over four days, seven of them from
>>>   you. Hardly overwhelming.
>>>
>>>   Keith Addison
>>>   Journey to Forever
>>>   KYOTO Pref., Japan
>>>   http://journeytoforever.org/
>>>   Biofuel list owner
>>>
>>   >
>>  
>>>
>>   >>  On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
>>  
>>>> >   Jim
>>>>
>>>>  
>>   >>>
>>   >>>>   I see I am still
>>   >>>>getting new e-mails.  I am beginning to suspect this is a 
>> coordinated
>>  
>>>>>> effort to overwhelm me.
>>>>>>  
>>   >>>>
>>   >>>>
>>   >>>I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two
>>  
>>>>> latest messages in the discussion are both from you.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the list "owner", I know of no emails sent to you other than those
>>>>> sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list
>>>>> archives, here:
>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> My initial message introducing you to the list said "Please respond
>>>>> onlist, not direct to Jim (he's a list member now)."
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are receiving offlist messages that you would rather not be
>>>>> receiving, please let me know (off-list) and I will see what can be
>>>>> done to put a stop to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keith Addison
>>>>> Journey to Forever
>>>>> KYOTO Pref., Japan
>>>>> http://journeytoforever.org/
>>>>> Biofuel list owner
>>>>>
>>   >>>
>>   >>>
>>   >>>>On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote:
>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>   jim, i posed some questions early on, which i'm glad to see you
>>>>>>>   answered (in part) when responding to jason.  it would still help 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>   know what sort of funds you have to work with.  whether it be your
>>>>>>>   economic development budget, or other funding streams which might 
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>   under the control of other administrators, but which you could
>>>>>>>   influence in your capacity to coordinate programs.  there are 
>>>>>>> almost
>>>>>>>   certainly grant monies which you could bring in as well.  not to
>>>>>>>   mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate
>>>>>>>   money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise) to the
>>>>>>>   cause.  i would encourage you, if you haven't already, to
>>>>>>

Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions

2010-06-18 Thread Jim Chalker 
On 6/18/2010 1:46 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
> Jim Chalker wrote:
>
>
>> I told you it was a joke.  You came back and called me a liar.  It's
>> that simple.
>>  
> No it isn't that simple. I didn't call you a liar. I said it wasn't a
> joke, and indeed it wasn't, too many loaded terms for it to be a
> joke. It's right there, below, see for yourself. Are you now going to
> say I've called you a liar again by not agreeing that "it's that
> simple"?
>
> That's the second time. I didn't "accuse" you of anything either, all
> the accusations were yours.
>
> As a self-proclaimed "profound lover of the English language" you
> sure are careless with it.
>
> And why do you keep raising the ante?
>
> Aren't you going to unsubscribe? Or was that just a threat? Strange
> kind of threat, if so. Go on, all you have to do is hit the button.
> Come to think of it, you might not even need your password, I forget,
> never having done it myself.
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> KYOTO Pref., Japan
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> Biofuel list owner
>
>
>
>> On 6/18/2010 9:22 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
>>   >  Jim Chalker wrote:
>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>>   OK,
>>>>
>>>>   If you are going to accuse me in this fashion
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>   It was a straightforward comment, and I didn't expect you to like it,
>>>   but I don't see how you can call it an accusation. The terms of
>>>   accusation were all yours.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>   please remove me from this
>>>>   mailing list!
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>   I'm afraid you have to do that yourself. The unsubscribe details are
>>>   in the headers of every message you receive from the list. You'll
>>>   need your password, which you were sent when you were subscribed. If
>>>   you didn't see it or lost it you can have it emailed to you.
>>>
>>>   Keith Addison
>>>   Journey to Forever
>>>   KYOTO Pref., Japan
>>>   http://journeytoforever.org/
>>>
>>   >  Biofuel list owner
>>  
>>>
>>   >>  Jim
>>  
>>>>   On 6/17/2010 5:44 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
>>>> >   Jim Chalker wrote:
>>>>  
>>   >>
>>   >>>>   It was a joke!
>>   >>
>>   >>>No it wasn't. The tone was light but plaintive, and the words
>>  
>>>>> "suspect" and "coordinated effort" are terms of accusation, not terms
>>>>> that should be thrown about without a care in a public forum. It
>>>>> seems you haven't had any offlist emails, so all you're complaining
>>>>> about is a mere six emails a day over four days, seven of them from
>>>>> you. Hardly overwhelming.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keith Addison
>>>>> Journey to Forever
>>>>> KYOTO Pref., Japan
>>>>> http://journeytoforever.org/
>>>>> Biofuel list owner
>>>>>
>>   >>>
>>   >>>>   On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
>>  
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>>>   >Jim
>>>>>>  
>>   >>>>
>>   >>>>>>I see I am still
>>   >>>>>> getting new e-mails.  I am beginning to suspect this is a
>> coordinated
>>   >>>>>>  effort to overwhelm me.
>>  
>>>>>>>>  
>>   >>>>>>
>>   >>>>>>
>>   >>>>> I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two
>>   >>>>> latest messages in the discussion are both from you.
>>   >>>>>
>>  
>>>>>>>   As the list "owner", I know of no emails sent to you other
>>>>>>> than those
>>>>>>>   sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list
>>>>>>>   archives, here:
>>>>>>>   <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   My initial