Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith

[Matt Golden]

Imagine if we were investing the $100+ Billion dollars we are spending on
this war in renewable energy...  That might actualy solve something!

I bet with a the few hundred billion we have and will be blowing (literaly)
in Iraq, we could pretty much get the US off of oil... or at least set us on
the road in a big way.

Just day dreaming about a rational world...


- Original Message - 
From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith


  I've no choice but to work with the two quotes you've provided, one
  of them from me, in which I did not as you allege praise Luc mightily
  nor even unmightily for anything, nor have I yet expressed any
  opinion on the substance of any of his posts. I haven't noticed
  anyone praising Luc for raising these topics. I fail to see how you
  can extract this from my quote above, or from anything I've said
  about it. My point was clear, Luc provided some substantiation for
  his views, Arthur provided no substantiation at all for his highly
  contemptuous dismissal of them, and that doesn't fly here, whether
  it's in discussing Judaism and Zionism or whether unwashed biodiesel
  can damage your motor. Please explain what you mean.
 
 What I mean is that generally you seem glad to have the topic raised,
 
 There is no indication of that, I've made no such comments, nor
 implied it in any way, and it's not the case.

 By topic I meant the general topic of Oil and Israel, which you started,
and
 for which you seem to have some enthusiasm, such as in this statement
(below) on
 your part.  If your decision to post this topic, and your subsequent
ardent (as
 far as I can see)  discussion of the matter doesn't mean that you're glad
to see
 the topic come up as overdue for hashing out, then that is something I
misread.

 What has all this off-topic crap got to do with biofuels? LOL! Oil
 and Israel, what a subject - I knew it was a can of worms when I
 posted it. The industrialised world, but particularly the US, is
 addicted to oil, and behaves just like any other addict when
 confronted with the prospect of cold turkey. More than that, Israel
 and the Middle East issue have long been the most dangerous thing
 in the world, and now, as well as the oil supplies and the sheer
 irrationality that goes with that (along with a severely confused and
 polarised US population), we have a bunch of religious extremist
 fanatics with a grip on the White House and the Pentagon who seem to
 see their salvation in actually fomenting war in the Middle East -
 they WANT it! And we also have a multi-cultural, global mailing list
 where probably all these warring interests are represented, and many
 more besides, where there is no majority, and which is devoted to
 energy issues and sustainability. And there's nothing strikingly
 sustainable about the Oil and Israel scenario, is there?

 [etc.]





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Re: Re: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle

[Matt Golden]

There is a diesel KLR in Europe.

- Original Message - 
From: "Peer Plaut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Busyditch" 
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle


It is my understanding that a major mc manufacture is going to build a
diesel, I think suzuki??
Peer

Original Message ---



HA I have had this very idea for years. Not too many engines out there
with
the proper requirements, most of the small engines I looked at are
industrial and do not have the capacity. It may be posible to use one of
the
new .8 liter Benz engines used in the SmartCar. It is a fun project I
hope
to try one day.
- Original Message - 
From: "tshadow6" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:47 PM
Subject: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle


> Has anyone out there built a diesel powered motorcycle? If so, let
> me know, I believe it would be a good project.
>
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/
biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://infoarchivenet/sgroup/b
iofuel/
>
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan

[Matt Golden]

 a quotation from
 Grand Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum
 ...it is our obligation to make it known in order that everyone
 should understand that the Zionists are not the nation of
 Israel...and it most definitely our holy obligation to announce
 before those nations of the world that the Zionists are not the
 spokespeople of the nation of Israel...
 http://www.karaite-korner.org/ states
 Karaism is the original form of Judaism as prescribed by God in the
 Torah. Karaite Judaism rejects later additions to the Tanach (Jewish
 Bible) such as the Rabbinic Oral Law and places the ultimate
 responsibility of interpreting the Bible on each individual.

 Truth IS NOT hate as would be the propaganda aim of this sort of
 smear in order to hide and deny it to those who may be interested in
 finding it out for themselves. Truth needs no laws to hide it as it
 stands on it's own merit, only lies and disinformation need
 governmental intervention to hide what might otherwise be an
 expunging of the cash cows once truth be known.

 Elizabeth Dilling's The Jewish Religion it's Influence Today:
 http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/dcontents.html
 The Kol Nidre (All Vows Prayer)
 http://christianparty.net/kolnidre.htm
 Award winning author Arthur Koestler's Thirteeth Tribe (The Khazars)
 http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm
 From Dr Alfred Lilenthal's What Price Israel available on his site
 at:http://www.alfredlilienthal.com/
 The Jewish racial myth flows from the fact that the words
 Hebrew, 'Israelite', Jew, Judaism, and the Jewish people have been
 used synonymously to suggest a historic continuity. But this is a
 misuse. These words refer to different groups of people with varying
 ways of life in different periods in history.

 These are not hate there are historical FACT. Some people do not
 appreciate being told the truth ,especially about a life long held
 belief but then facts don't change just because we don't like them.
 No one is advocating that anyone should go out and commit violence
 against anyone. This information is provided as educational only and
 NOT intended to incite or promote any form of violence against any
 person or group.

 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth,
 that shall he also reap (Galatians 6:7)
 Those who sow violence reap violence, those who sow peace reap peace.
 War IS NOT Peace nor is Slavery Freedom as Orwell said in his epic
 1984.



 --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Matt Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  I am literally stunned by this outburst of hate.
 
  I am Jewish.  Like 99% of Jews around the world, more than
 anything I want a
  true peace in the middle east.  Jews are not some sort of
 monolithic
  force... or conspiracy... we are exactly like every other person
 on this
  earth.
 
  The very idea that there is one way to interpret the Talmud in
 itself shows
  this man's ignorance.  The Talmud is simply a commentary on the
 Torah...
  there are literally hundreds of opinions on every topic, and none
 are
  right...  It is a discussion of ideas that spans centuries.  It is
 the
  debate of ideas that defines Jewish belief and law.
 
  There are extremist interpretations of every tradition... Muslim,
 Christian,
  Jewish.  The interpretation of the Talmud that you refer to is an
  interpretation that is only believed by a few extremists, and is
 not part of
  modern Jewish understanding.
 
  One example of an extremist Christian belief that has a similar
 effect on
  world view, is the evangelical belief that only those who are born
 again can
  be saved.  This tenant has the same polarizing effect as
 being chosen...
  Accum's razor might suggest that it is more likely that this line
 of thought
  could have affected our President (he is after all a practicing
 Born Again
  Evangelical Christian), rather then an obscure teaching from the
 Talmud.
 
  How exactly did you make the leap from Bush to Jew bashing
 amazing
  string of logic.
 
  The first step towards solving this world's problem, is for us all
 to look
  at each other with open eyes... realize that we are all human, and
 all faced
  with the same fears, and loves.  We need to look in our enemies
 soul and
  realize that they are exactly like us.
 
  The first step to peace is empathy.
 
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:01 PM
  Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
 
 
   Hubris; the unreasonable absorbtion with ones self often
   misrepresented as narcisism plagues Americans more than any
 other
   one single group anywhere. In a way it is not even their fault as
   they have been conditioned this way from birth; the thinking of
 the
   world in terms of America is the only way Americans CAN relate
 to
   the world as they are woefully ignorant (unlearned) of it other
 than
   in American terms.
   This latest outing of Bush et co's policies of not me first, me
   ONLY is merely

Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan

[Matt Golden]

I am literally stunned by this outburst of hate.

I am Jewish.  Like 99% of Jews around the world, more than anything I want a
true peace in the middle east.  Jews are not some sort of monolithic
force... or conspiracy... we are exactly like every other person on this
earth.

The very idea that there is one way to interpret the Talmud in itself shows
this man's ignorance.  The Talmud is simply a commentary on the Torah...
there are literally hundreds of opinions on every topic, and none are
right...  It is a discussion of ideas that spans centuries.  It is the
debate of ideas that defines Jewish belief and law.

There are extremist interpretations of every tradition... Muslim, Christian,
Jewish.  The interpretation of the Talmud that you refer to is an
interpretation that is only believed by a few extremists, and is not part of
modern Jewish understanding.

One example of an extremist Christian belief that has a similar effect on
world view, is the evangelical belief that only those who are born again can
be saved.  This tenant has the same polarizing effect as being chosen...
Accum's razor might suggest that it is more likely that this line of thought
could have affected our President (he is after all a practicing Born Again
Evangelical Christian), rather then an obscure teaching from the Talmud.

How exactly did you make the leap from Bush to Jew bashing amazing
string of logic.

The first step towards solving this world's problem, is for us all to look
at each other with open eyes... realize that we are all human, and all faced
with the same fears, and loves.  We need to look in our enemies soul and
realize that they are exactly like us.

The first step to peace is empathy.



- Original Message - 
From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:01 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan


 Hubris; the unreasonable absorbtion with ones self often
 misrepresented as narcisism plagues Americans more than any other
 one single group anywhere. In a way it is not even their fault as
 they have been conditioned this way from birth; the thinking of the
 world in terms of America is the only way Americans CAN relate to
 the world as they are woefully ignorant (unlearned) of it other than
 in American terms.
 This latest outing of Bush et co's policies of not me first, me
 ONLY is merely an extrapolation of that. In ideology that only
 reflects the Talmudisation of America and it's pulpits as that is
 EXACTLY what the Talmud teaches, that all non-jews are not even to
 be considered as human, but are merely cattle, so America's me
 ONLY attitude towards the rest of the world is gain a reflection of
 that mindset.
 The Talmud teaches not a superior race ethic(!)it teaches an ONLY
 race one. It is little wonder that once discovered for it's true
 self there were born so-called persecutions and osterisations of
 the chosen. No one appreciates being categorised as cattle for
 the benefit of it's owners and masters.
 America DOES NOT speak for the world but it THINKS it does in it's
 delusion that they are the best, the greatest, the only truly
 capable form of political thought capable of deciding the fate of
 the world because they have more bombs. Might is right and truth be
 damned. International laws are for the subserviant not for the
 masters, just like Sharon and his lot in the political state of
 Israel.The two have worked, yes WORKED, hand in glove to see to it
 through numerous UN vetos, that neither would ever be held
 accountable to anyone who is not of the master category. Is it a
 piss-off ? At present the rest of the planet has had about enough of
 both of them and their slaughter of the poor and innocent for
 whatever trumped up reason they have their media shills push at us.
 Sooner or later the bully always gets his, and only then can the
 rest live in peace and cooperation, for as long as the instigators
 of hate and division for profit are running the show there will be
 no peace or ability for the haves to share with the havenots for
 the masters want it all for themselves.

 But then that is just my take on it.

 Luc

 --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hi Chris,
 
  Have you ever contemplated that this kind of thought are only
 supported by
  a maximum of 2% of the world population, if US are split in the
 middle on
  this issue. I and a majority of the people outside US, recent the
 US as a
  spokesman for the western civilization. Who are you, to do this
 kind of
  evaluation. It might be your personal thoughts, but you are quite
 alone.
  The ideals of all civilizations, not the practices, are equally
 noble. This if
  you look at what they say and not on what they do. The western
 civilization
  or indeed US, are in no way unique or better on this.
 
  Bush can be happy that he have no law license to loose for lying
 and
  obstructing.
  As I understand it, Clinton was never impeached, but 

[biofuel] Oil and Israel -- Don't forget the Neo-Cons and the Evangelical Right

[Matt Golden]

I think the real reason for this war can be traced back to Mr. Bush's
Evangelical roots... and his faith based approach to foreign policy.

Radical Neo-Conservatives are running this country and doing exactly what
they have proposed for years...  They believe without failing that by
installing a democratic regime in the Middle East, they can convert the
Islamic world to be more like the West.

This irrational policy totally ignores facts, and cannot hear any dissent
(or logic).  They Bush Administration is simply doing exactly what the
Evangelical and Neo-Con movements have been talking about for years!  None
of this should be a surprise to anyone.

The largest political block in this country supporting the war has been, and
continues to be, evangelical Christians (polling at 80% in support of the
war).  To pass the blame onto Israel is really a copout  Sure the
current Likud government is in support of the war, but Bush would sell
Israel down the river in a second if he thought it would help his political
position.

I advise everyone to go to PBS and watch a Frontline piece on Bushes ties to
the Evangelical Christian right.  In his mind we are fighting the
Armageddon... clash of civilizations.  Israel and the Jews are not running
this show... I really believe that Israel is only important to this
administration as a pawn in the biblical prophecy they truly believe they
are fulfilling.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/

We are truly in scary times  We need to all work for change and bring
this country and the world back from the brink.

Matt Golden


- Original Message - 
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:49 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Oil and Israel


 http://www.tompaine.com/articles/oil_and_israel.php

 Oil and Israel
 Bob Dreyfuss , The Dreyfuss Report
 May 25, 2004

 The two unmentionables about Iraq are suddenly getting mentioned. The
 real reasons for the attack on Iraq had nothing to do with WMDs, that
 ultimate red herring. The real reasons: oil and Israel.

 Let's take oil first. Prince Turki al -Faisal , the Saudi ambassador
 to the UK and no radical he, charges that the invasion of Iraq might
 have had something to do with what's under Iraq's sand:
 http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/forms/printstory.asp?section=Breaki
 ngstoryId=868913tw=wn_wire_story

 The U.S.-led invasion of Iraq was a colonial war and there were some
 in the United States who saw it as a means of getting their hands on
 Iraqi oil, a senior Saudi ambassador was quoted as saying Monday.

 Prince Turki al-Faisal, ambassador to Britain and Ireland, told the
 Irish Independent newspaper Washington's stated aims in going to war
 in Iraq masked a more cynical reality.

 No matter how exalted the aims of the U.S. in that war, in the final
 analysis it was a colonial war very similar to the wars conducted by
 the ex-colonial powers when they went out to conquer the rest of the
 world ..., Prince Turki said.

 John Kerry, ever Mr. Cautious (if only I can stay two points to the
 left of Bush I can win), suggested that oil might have had something
 do with the invasion, too. Kerry, who's constantly bashing the
 Saudis, didn't exactly line up with Prince Turki. And he didn't
 exactly sound like an anti-imperialist, either. But he did suggest
 that oil was a factor. In a Washington Times piece entitled Kerry
 hints at link between oil, Iraq war, the Times reports:
 http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040524-103200-9250r.htm

 Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry yesterday suggested
 that America's dependence on foreign oil is the major reason the
 United States went to war with Iraq.

 A strong America begins at home-with energy independence from the
 Middle East. Let's ensure that no young American soldier has to fight
 and die because of our dependence on foreign oil, the Massachusetts
 senator said.

 Okay, not exactly courageous, but it's a start. Speaking of courage
 though, have you seen Sen. Fritz Hollings' statement that Israel,
 too, was a major reason for the war in Iraq? Hollings, the
 white-haired courtly southern gentleman, who's finally retiring and
 getting out of Dodge, wrote an article for the Charleston Post and
 Courier on May 6 (now posted on Hollings' website), noting that
 perhaps President Bush was motivated to attack Iraq more by his
 desire to protect Ariel Sharon's Israel than any other reason. Wrote
 Hollings :
 http://hollings.senate.gov/~hollings/opinion/2004506A17.html

 Of course there were no weapons of mass destruction. Israel's
 intelligence, Mossad, knows what's going on in Iraq. They are the
 best. They have to know.

 Israel's survival depends on knowing. Israel long since would have
 taken us to the weapons of mass destruction if there were any or if
 they had been removed. With Iraq no threat, why invade a sovereign
 country? The answer: President Bush's policy to secure Israel.

 Led

Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel

[Matt Golden]

If claims that Saddam had ties to Al Qaeda were true, we would be hearing it
from the administration, however even they are not making these assertions.
The fact that Saddam had WMD is not in dispute, however we went to war
because we were told by our president that we had evidence that Saddam
currently has WMD and a Nuclear program, and there for presented an eminent
threat to America -- a LIE.

We are talking about going to war half way around the world, killing so far
800 Americans, with over 10,000 wounded... and countless dead, maimed,
homeless Iraqis... (not to mention over $200 billion spent when children go
hungry without health care right here in America).  I for one expect a
higher standard of proof and reason then we got from this administration.

Bottom line, this war will go down in history as a tragic mistake.  We may
never be able to recover our standing and moral ground in the world.  We
will create armies of terrorists that will fight American interests for
years to come, and we may find that we stand alone in that fight.


- Original Message - 
From: the_maniacal_engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:38 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel


 there were no WMD's. there was no sarin shell used against US troops,
 these aren't the droids you're looking for... you can go about your
 business... move along. Pay no attention to the man behind the
 curtain.

 Iraq still retains control of its own oil, we have not seized it,
 although we could have, and there were WMD's (duh - where did the
 ssarin shell come from?)
 Christopher hitchins says there are 4 ways you can tell a complete
 idiot. These are the things a complete idiot says:
 1) sure Saddam was a bad guy but
  Saddam was a sociopath and so were his putative heirs.
 2) We are just going to war to take the Iraqi oil
  We buy the oil from iraq at market prices, and unlike the oil for
 food program administered by the corrupt french and russian interests
 at the UN, the money does not go to build opulent palaces or for
 weapons programs.
 3) there is no connection between Saddam and terror or Saddam is
 just a secular tyrant and has no truck with those religious zealots
  he paid $25000 for each suicide bomber. the WTC bombing
 mastermind went to Iraq shortly after 9/11 and was given haven in
 Iraq, and is still there today. One of the planners of 9/11 was a
 colonel is Saddam's fedayin.
 4) there were no WMD's
  DUH, they existed at the end of the first gulf war. to destroy
 them without supervision was a violation of international law. The
 Sarin and mustard attacks recently against US troops prove the
 contention that they didn't exist is totally false.

 didn't the ambassador recall that we just LEFT Saudi Arabia?


 --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Prince Turki al-Faisal, ambassador to Britain and Ireland, told the
  Irish Independent newspaper Washington's stated aims in going to war
  in Iraq masked a more cynical reality.
  
  No matter how exalted the aims of the U.S. in that war, in the final
  analysis it was a colonial war very similar to the wars conducted by
  the ex-colonial powers when they went out to conquer the rest of the
  world ..., Prince Turki said.
  
  John Kerry, ever Mr. Cautious (if only I can stay two points to the
  left of Bush I can win), suggested that oil might have had something
  do with the invasion, too. Kerry, who's constantly bashing the
  Saudis, didn't exactly line up with Prince Turki. And he didn't
  exactly sound like an anti-imperialist, either. But he did suggest
  that oil was a factor. In a Washington Times piece entitled Kerry
  hints at link between oil, Iraq war, the Times reports:
  http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040524-103200-9250r.htm
 
  Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry yesterday suggested
  that America's dependence on foreign oil is the major reason the
  United States went to war with Iraq.
  
  A strong America begins at home-with energy independence from the
  Middle East. Let's ensure that no young American soldier has to fight
  and die because of our dependence on foreign oil, the Massachusetts
  senator said.
 
  I'd like to point out that there are some substantial differences in
  trying to make the case that America's oil dependencies have 'led'
  inexorably to certain events, and to claiming that, specifically and
  simplistically, America was simply trying to take oil.  They are not
  necessarily the same claim.
 
  I would be very much in favor of examining the first point and trying
  to figure it out and examine the issue of causality.
 
  As to the second, I question it, though I guess it's possible.
 
  The author of this article, though, leaves little or no room for the
  idea that there could be a difference, so the conversation and the
  article to me becomes far less worth my while.
 
 
  Of course there were no weapons 

[biofuel] Risks of running WVO?

[Matt Golden]

I just bought a 1998 Dodge Ram Diesel...  I would really like to set it up to 
run WVO... I just am a little nervous about it with this rather expensive 
vehicle.  

What are the risks running WVO?  Would I be better off just going with 
biodiesel?  What happens after 100,000 miles?  is there any real evidence?

Thanks all!

Matt

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[biofuel] Grease kits...

[Matt Golden]

I am about to buy a 1998 Dog Ram Cummings... and I am considering putting in a 
WVO kit in it.

Any thoughts on running grease vs. biodiesel?  

I am looking at a two tank system by the greasel folks.

Thanks.

Matt



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Re: [biofuel] Re: biodiesel in Nevada City / Grass Valley CA

[Matt Golden]

Cool... let me know what you find out please.

use my real email... [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I miss emails on hotmail alot.

Thanks.

Matt

- Original Message - 
From: TJ Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:34 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: biodiesel in Nevada City / Grass Valley CA


 I just visited a new store up here in Grass Valley and the clerk tells
 me a Biodiesel Co-op will be starting soon here in GV.

 Ag Natural
 contact: Roy Harris
 403 Idaho-Maryland Road
 Grass Valley, CA. 95945
 TEL: (530) 274-0990
 FAX: (530) 274-0980

 Thomas



 --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, TJ Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I am new to Biodiesel and just getting started but there is a company
  in Nevada City that sells Biodiesel.  I found them in my search.  I
  live in Grass Valley myself.
 
  Here is the information..
 
  tj
 
  World Energy Alternatives; Nevada City, CA
  Phone:  (530) 478-9196
  Contact:  Graham Noyes
  http://www.worldenergy.net
 
  --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Matt Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Hi all,
  
   I'm in the process of moving up to the Nevada City / Grass Valley
  area of CA... I wanted to find out if there were any biodiesel
  cooperatives in the area?
  
   Thanks.
  
   Matt
  
   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[biofuel] biodiesel in Nevada City / Grass Valley CA

[Matt Golden]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of moving up to the Nevada City / Grass Valley area of CA... 
I wanted to find out if there were any biodiesel cooperatives in the area?

Thanks.

Matt

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...

[Matt Golden]

I don't really want to get into this debate  but I think we do get
something out of that 50%, unlike slaves.  We have roads, social services,
all variety of things we depend on.

If anything, we are condemning our children to slavery, to pay off the
massive debt we are incurring at every level (federal, state, individual).
When creditors come back to bit us, then we will be slaves.  So I guess I
would be willing to even pay a little more in taxes to avoid condemning our
nation to a state of real servitude in the future.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...


 In a message dated 2/22/2004 10:50:48 AM Central Standard Time,

   Slavery was a real thing.  It was well documented.
 It is alive and well in more parts of the world than I care to know.

 Lets see, now.  A slave is a worker who is not allowed to keep the product
 (or wages) of his labor.  In the old south, a slave produced about twice
what it
 cost to keep him; 50% of his labor went to the master.  In 21st. century
 America, about half our income goes to the master (the IRS, mostly, plus
sales
 taxes, etc.).  Is that progress or slavery?


 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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