Re: [Biofuel] Basic Questions, Major Problems: Biofuel Batches
Hi Chris, I've had all the problems you are having and more. Titration is an essential part of the process though! You cannot skip this step, even with new oil. Accurate measurements? Is the murky water white? If it is, you are doing it right(as long as you have the biodiesel separated from it.) Remember that the biodiesel will be a murky yellowish color after the first wash It sounds as if you are being very methodical and careful with your process. For the record, I have found that I have had better results with Naoh than KOH Lye. It is possible that your chemical is inferior. Remember that Lye immediately absorbs moisture from it's environment and that would tend to mess with your results. Is the Lye stored in a sealed container? Are you sure the Lye is completely dissolved in the methanol? I have had fairly consistent results using a blender for test batches. Consistent temperature is important, but I have found that too much heat is even worse than not enough If the batch overheats, a percentage of the alcohol tends to evaporate and the result is jelly. Remember that Methanol evaporates at 67.4 celcius. I've been making bio-diesel now for 2 years with the majority of my batches working out awesome. Don't feel bad though, I've had hundreds that haven't. There have been times I have had to take apart my entire 200 litre processor and blow out every piece with an air compressor to clean out the congealed crap fro a jelly reaction. I have made soap, mayonnaise and all manner of things besides Bio-diesel. Bears have trashed my shop and gone after the glycerin and oil. I have contaminated batches of bio-diesel accidentally and broken down on the side of the highway at -30... The list goes on, but once you start, you can't give up! I have also driven almost 100,000 km on my own fuel, sold it and given it to farmers, taught workshops, powered music festivals and much more on my fuel. However much of a pain in the ass making bio-diesel can be, it's not a petroleum product!!! Seth-Dredneck' Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: C Pinelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 4:57:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Basic Questions, Major Problems: Biofuel Batches Again, I have not tritrated because it is virgin oil. Should I? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:06:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Basic Questions, Major Problems: Biofuel Batches what's the titration of your oil? even if it's new doesn't mean its clean, or even dry. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 10:55:31 -0400 Subject: [Biofuel] Basic Questions, Major Problems: Biofuel Batches Hi all, my name's Chris, I've been an avid ethanol brewer for a couple years and I'm shifting into biodiesel now with the help of the amazing Journey To Forever site. I've been trying for about 6 months in my spare time but have had almost no success with test batches. and I'm just about at my wit's end. I need some help. I thought if I laid out my proceedure and questions someone might be able to point out something that I'm doing wrong. I start by filling an old pot with water, and placing a 4L HDPE jug in it. I use that jug to mix the oil. I pour the vegetable oil (usually Canola) into the jug, and heat to 55'C. While that is heating, I measure out 200mL of 100% Methanol and 5.454g of 90% KOH. Mixing them together quickly in a glass jar to avoid air contamination. I add the methoxide to the oil and begin mixing. I use an electric drill on a homemade stand and a small steel paint mixer that attaches to the drill for mixing. Usually on low settings because it vibrates quite alot. I make sure to maintain the heat during the reaction, and I've varied my processing times from 20 Minutes to 90 Minutes. Afterwards, I pour out the mixture into a 2L PET bottle, and let settle for 24 hours. I then drain the by-product by unscrewing the cap. I usually let it resettle after and drain it again after another 12 hours just in case. Then I do the wash and methanol tests in 500mL PET bottles. I've had good results with the methanol tests mostly. But have only ever passed the wash test once, and that I think was a fluke as I havent been able to duplicate it. I've tried changing the methoxide mixture between 175mL-250mL of methanol and 5g-6-g of KOH, but that hasn't helped a tremendous amount. I find that I usually get better results with more methanol. I'm concerned that my KOH might be contaminated, is there a sign when it is? Also, is there any difference between using KOH flakes or pellets? As I use flakes. I have not tritrated as I have I have been using virgin oil. I sometimes get clear biodiesel and
Re: [Biofuel] Making Biodiesel
Hi Patrick, Seth here at Robson Valley Bio-Diesel.My best advice to you is to follow the links and directions at : www.journeytoforever.com Accurate measurements are the key to success so a scale that measures accurately to within a tenth of a gram is important for small batches especially.Make sure your batches are passing the wash test as outlined at Journey to forever on a consistent basis before you try to scale up. There are MANY more variables when dealing with larger quantities so make sure your titration tests are correct, your temperature in the processor is consistent, etc. Lot's of links to do-it-yourself processors on the same site. As far as the conversion to litres from quarts, I'm sure you can find that online as well.Living in Canada, most of our measurements are in metric already. Best of luck and be careful! methanol, lye and especially methoxide are DANGEROUS CHEMICALS! Seth (Dredneck)Macdonald From: Wenners Bakery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 10:33:38 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Making Biodiesel Hello, My name is Patrick Wenner. I am Just getting started making Bio-diesel and was looking for a some people to give me some pointers. I already have some of the chemicals to get started. I was wondering, how many test batches I should make before I try to make a bigger batch? I plan to make my first test batch by the end of the month. I already have a scale that measures grams. Do I need to get a better scale? At the store they sell oil by the quart. How do I make the conversion to liters since the recipe is metric? If someone could give me some direction I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Patrick. -- Patrick Wenner 15919 485th Ave Revillo SD, 57259 Phone # 605-623-4306 E-mail, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110512/8b3838c1/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in Canada
Thanx for the info Joe. mAKES SENSE FINALLY Seth From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 1:42:02 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in Canada Yup your biodiesel has the ability to adsorb a little humidity but petroleum will not. When you use fuel air is drawn into the tank as it empties and that air always carries some moisture. When the temperature drops and condensation forms, it goes as liquid to the bottom of your petroleum tank. Always top up your tanks and try to burn only the top quarter in cold weather. I know this means carrying extra weight which means burning more fuel but you will have way less issues with water in fuel. This 'could' explain what happened but I still think you got off damn lucky there Seth!! Joe On 30/03/2011 12:52 PM, Fritz wrote: Hello Seth, i would call for ice in the line! Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110403/cd3207ae/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in Canada
Hey Joe, I ran my truck on a blend all winter. Usually 60/40 (Bio/petrol) I did have a couple of filter issues, but I also had a very interesting success story. On Feb the 24th I was in Jasper AB doing sound and had ended up plugging my truck into a dead circuit. The outside temp that night was -35 WITHOUT the windchill. When I discovered that the vehicle had actually NOT been plugged in I figured I was screwed. One of my tanks had straight diesel in it (so called winter diesel at that.)That tank refused to do more than knock and sputter. Out of desperation I switched over to my 80% Bio-Diesel tank as a last resort. The vehicle immediately started to purr. I don't know what the hell I did right with that batch, but I was very happy!I thought at first that I had inadvertently switched the tanks wrong, but the comforting aroma of french fries confirmed that I was indeed running on Bio-Diesel in extreme temps Any ideas out there on how this could have happened? Seth From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, March 25, 2011 8:21:18 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in Canada The government gives a gift to diesel mechanics and fuel filter retailers! Based on my experience running biodiesel in the Canadian winter vehicles will need heated fuel filters in the least. Heavy hauling rigs crossing the nation will need a heated tank and line system and a switchover manifold like you use for SVO in order to be reliable crossing western Canada in winter. I remember my friend the mechanic who looks after the public transit buses when they mandated biodiesel added to the fleet's fuel in Guelph Ontario (which aint that cold folks by Canadian standards) he was bitching about how bad biodiesel was and on and on since they had to change filters so frequently. This is another boon to the service industry like making it illegal to run with snow tires on only the drive wheels. I wonder how many good fuel filters will be tossed out due to gel plugging before they figure out how to solve it? But this is a big country. Plenty of room to bury fuel filters and rubber eh?. I hope they only blend it in summer. Maybe they will. Joe On 21/03/2011 7:59 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Darryl Thankyou. Yes, B2, that'll hide a multitude of sins. But if you multiply those amounts of oil by 50, does it make sense in terms of Canada's petro-diesel consumption? Or maybe he'll be making it for export (but to where?). How can CRFA make all those grand claims for B2? At that low level it's not much more than just a lubricant. All best Keith I don't know who the specific potential customer is, but I expect the demand is related to this announcement. http://www.greenfuels.org/uploads/media_centre/2011%20news%20releases/021011-en2percentregsannouncement.pdf f (or http://tinyurl.com/5smcn4e) From Canadian Renewable Fuels Association (CRFA) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE February 10, 2011 BIODIESEL BLENDS NOW A REALITY IN CANADA New Federal Regulations Will Benefit Farmers and the Environment Ottawa: The Canadian Renewable Fuels Association (CRFA) today lauded the announcement of a national 2% biodiesel mandate in Canada as good news for consumers, farmers and energy diversity in Canada. This is a milestone day for homegrown renewable biodiesel in Canada. Biodiesel is a better way to drive and an innovative way to fuel our economy, said Gordon Quaiattini, CRFA president in reacting to the federal government's announcement of a 2 per cent Renewable Fuels Standard for biodiesel. Biodiesel is a cleaner alternative to conventional diesel. It will help moderate price by adding to our fuel supply, create new jobs, and benefit farmers and drivers alike. Biodiesel contains no petroleum and can be made from a variety of renewable raw materials, or feedstocks, including pure seed oils, animal fats and recycled cooking oils. It performs comparably to petroleum diesel in terms of fuel economy, horsepower and torque. Biodiesel is safe to use in all diesel vehicles, and also can be used as heating oil and in a variety of other applications, including marine transportation, electrical generation, farming equipment and mining operations. Biodiesel is 10 times less toxic than table salt and is as biodegradable as sugar. Independent studies have shown that Canadian produced biodiesel generates between 85 to 99 per cent less greenhouse gases, depending on feedstock, compared to conventional diesel fuel. From an economic perspective, renewable fuels such as ethanol and biodiesel in Canada are a substantial source of economic and financial benefit to rural Canada. Construction of biofuels facilities has generated roughly $3 billion in economic activity and ongoing operations represent a $2 billion annual economic contribution. For Canadian farmers, higher incomes that flow from the
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in Canada
Couldn't agree more! As a VERY small producer of B100, I don't even show up as a blip on their radar so far. I've been considering buying a membership in their little big boy's club, but can't decide if there will be any actual benefit to me or my community. I suppose if I could get some of their grant $ I might actually have a chance at setting up a business that could come close to keeping up with demand, but then the fuel I'm producing isn't necessarily legal in this country yet! Seth Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 4:59:27 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in Canada Hi Darryl Thankyou. Yes, B2, that'll hide a multitude of sins. But if you multiply those amounts of oil by 50, does it make sense in terms of Canada's petro-diesel consumption? Or maybe he'll be making it for export (but to where?). How can CRFA make all those grand claims for B2? At that low level it's not much more than just a lubricant. All best Keith I don't know who the specific potential customer is, but I expect the demand is related to this announcement. http://www.greenfuels.org/uploads/media_centre/2011%20news%20releases/021011-en2percentregsannouncement.pdf (or http://tinyurl.com/5smcn4e) From Canadian Renewable Fuels Association (CRFA) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE February 10, 2011 BIODIESEL BLENDS NOW A REALITY IN CANADA New Federal Regulations Will Benefit Farmers and the Environment Ottawa: The Canadian Renewable Fuels Association (CRFA) today lauded the announcement of a national 2% biodiesel mandate in Canada as good news for consumers, farmers and energy diversity in Canada. This is a milestone day for homegrown renewable biodiesel in Canada. Biodiesel is a better way to drive and an innovative way to fuel our economy, said Gordon Quaiattini, CRFA president in reacting to the federal government's announcement of a 2 per cent Renewable Fuels Standard for biodiesel. Biodiesel is a cleaner alternative to conventional diesel. It will help moderate price by adding to our fuel supply, create new jobs, and benefit farmers and drivers alike. Biodiesel contains no petroleum and can be made from a variety of renewable raw materials, or feedstocks, including pure seed oils, animal fats and recycled cooking oils. It performs comparably to petroleum diesel in terms of fuel economy, horsepower and torque. Biodiesel is safe to use in all diesel vehicles, and also can be used as heating oil and in a variety of other applications, including marine transportation, electrical generation, farming equipment and mining operations. Biodiesel is 10 times less toxic than table salt and is as biodegradable as sugar. Independent studies have shown that Canadian produced biodiesel generates between 85 to 99 per cent less greenhouse gases, depending on feedstock, compared to conventional diesel fuel. From an economic perspective, renewable fuels such as ethanol and biodiesel in Canada are a substantial source of economic and financial benefit to rural Canada. Construction of biofuels facilities has generated roughly $3 billion in economic activity and ongoing operations represent a $2 billion annual economic contribution. For Canadian farmers, higher incomes that flow from the sale of surplus feedstock bring additional security and lessen reliance on income and safety net programs. Today's announcement sets the stage for Canada to become a world leader in advanced biofuels, added Mr. Quaiattini. The production and the commercialization of next generation advanced biofuels using state-of-the-art technologies and a wide variety of feedstocks is underway. Thanks to the entrepreneurial spirit of our biofuel pioneers and a stable policy environment the future is now for advanced biofuels in Canada. On 20/03/2011 10:19 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Hello all I got this enquiry - not very unusual, people often try to buy bulk oil from me, but this one's more bulky than most. Who could be planning to make so much biodiesel in Canada? Must be for biodiesel, I suppose. Good evening My name is xxx. I am a trade agent and I am writing because I have a client that needs the following types of oil fuels: 1. Rapeseed Oil (fuel) - 150,000 metric tons/month; 2. Palm Oil fuel - 50,000 MT/month; and 3. Sunflower Oil Fuel - 50,000 MT/month. Packaging: Bulk Could you please tell me IF you could sell him these types of oil fuels? My client is in Canada. Thank you All best Keith -- Darryl McMahon Prez, Electric Vehicle Council of Ottawa ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in Canada
Palm oil in CANADA?! From what I understand our climate is too harsh in most of this country to make Bio-Diesel out of Palm Oil. Seth(Dredneck) Macdonald From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sun, March 20, 2011 7:19:47 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in Canada Hello all I got this enquiry - not very unusual, people often try to buy bulk oil from me, but this one's more bulky than most. Who could be planning to make so much biodiesel in Canada? Must be for biodiesel, I suppose. Good evening My name is xxx. I am a trade agent and I am writing because I have a client that needs the following types of oil fuels: 1. Rapeseed Oil (fuel) - 150,000 metric tons/month; 2. Palm Oil fuel - 50,000 MT/month; and 3. Sunflower Oil Fuel - 50,000 MT/month. Packaging: Bulk Could you please tell me IF you could sell him these types of oil fuels? My client is in Canada. Thank you All best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110320/4d0178cd/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Thanks Jan. I have opted NOT to use it in the hydronic system and decided instead to build a heat exchanger into the next phase of the processor instead. Thank you for the info. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 1:32:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. Biodiesel is usually processed at as low temperature as possible, 60oC is almost ideal. Any temperature above that is threateing. The hotter the faster the crack. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great idea to use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 hrs before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing quality? Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
To be honest , I haven't used the methanol test on any batches for a long time. Usually if it passes the wash test I have proceeded without difficulties. I will proceed with the methanol test. Thanks again Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:19:10 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions You are welcome. But have you analyzed the batch with the methanol test as initiated by undersigned ? That will give you useful information on the state of the batch. With best regards Jan W - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thank you for the info Jan. As far as I know the excess methanol has already been evaporated as the batch was heated (probably excessively) outside the shop in a barrel over a three burner stove! Glycerin layer has also been removed. I'm thinking this batch did not completely react.Perhaps incorrect titration. Thanks very much for the tip on using weakly acidified water. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:13:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) is also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that you have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess methanol ? With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/8a4fc30c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great idea to use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 hrs before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing quality? Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hi Joe. Seems to be the concensus. What about spilling esters on a concrete slab? I have had a fairly decent sized spill of finished bio-diesel lately(15 litres) onto the concrete in the shop. Should I be concerned? I love the heat exchanger idea! Thanks for the info. Seth From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi Seth; You are not the first person to consider using the esters as a fluid in a hydrionic system. However the esters can do unexpected things to plastic fittings or elements of plastic assemblies and I think you would be well advised to instead use a more conventional hydrionic system and put a coil of tubing inside your reactor vessel as a heat exchanger. That way you have the option of using latent heat from your reactor to heat your floor, but also you can heat the reactor to some degree with heat from another source such as thermal solar tubes etc. I saw a setup like that and it works well. Eventually you WILL have a leak and it is much preferable to be cleaning up water/glycol than esters believe me. If esters leak inside a slab..??? Joe On 22/02/2011 2:16 PM, Seth Macdonald wrote: Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Thank you for the info Jan. As far as I know the excess methanol has already been evaporated as the batch was heated (probably excessively) outside the shop in a barrel over a three burner stove! Glycerin layer has also been removed. I'm thinking this batch did not completely react.Perhaps incorrect titration. Thanks very much for the tip on using weakly acidified water. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:13:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) is also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that you have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess methanol ? With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/8a4fc30c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dry-washing
Hello Joe, Keith, Seth Macdonald from the wilds of British Columbia. Today it is a moserate -14 degrees celcius. I have considered dry-washing due to the difficulty I am having this winter in keeping my building heated. (i.e. water lines freezing.) I am curious about the method but as of yet have stuck to stir-washing and drying in a hot water heater. Can someone explain the process of vaccum drying to me? Seth From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 7:45:17 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dry-washing I have a guy here who learned how to make fuel and he tells me his fuel passes the Jan Warnqvist quality test after 'drywashing' . I haven't seen him do it but my understanding is it isn't faster. Certainly not faster than washing and vacuum drying. Joe Keith Addison wrote: Hello all Is anyone using dry-washing for biodiesel? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20101129/e9961f42/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nigeria: Shell Oil's 'License to Kill'
Hi Keith and all of my fellow bio-dieselers! I joined your mailing list about a year ago.. After discovering journey to forever I have made it one of the most important missions in my life to get off of the fossil fuel drug. In the past year and a half I have built a straw bale bio diesel processing shop on my family land deep in the mountains of rural British Columbia, Canada. I have successfully set up a network of collection with 10 regional restaurants and have successfully made thousands of litres of clean-burning bio-diesel. I am currently trying to set-up a small co-op business here to provide fuel for green farmers in the area. I am also madly trying to pour a floor in my shop complete with in-floor heating pipes before freeze-up(which is happening SOON!) I am curious if anyone out there has ever tried to run Bio-Diesel in a hydronic in-floor heating system. It seems to me to be the perfect solution to using energy already consumed by the drying process to heat the facility. My biggest question is wether or not plastic pex water pipe is compatible with bio-diesel. Any leads on this subject would be greatly appreciated, Sincerely, The Dred Neck Dunster BC Canada V0J 1J0 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 5:45:56 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Nigeria: Shell Oil's 'License to Kill' This one still leaves me stunned. I've read it twice now, trying to imagine how it could possibly come to pass. Well, they think they own everything, and everyone, and certainly the law, whatever law. Even if they don't own it, they're usually in a position to bend it. It seems to me, that as a matter of basic equity in law, that a person (natural or otherwise) should not be able to invoke the legal system to its advantage unless it is equally answerable to the same body of law. How is it that trans-national corporations, that explicitly operate in the international realm, can be not answerable to international law? This might help: http://www.asil.org/files/insight100930pdf.pdf Still stunned. I'm not very surprised. Do you remember this? How to kill a mammoth, from Roberto Verzola, secretary-general of the Philippine Greens: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30628.html [biofuel] Mammoth corporations Economics, properly defined, is the study of human behaviour in the marketplace. IT is a BEHAVIOURAL SCIENCE. Unfortunately, people are too often greedy and the economic models can predict behaviour by reducing humans to a collection of pecuniary interests. So, the problem is not to change economics. The problem is to change people's attitude. When that happens, the economist's models will fail. You can denounce economics all you want, but it is really human behaviour that is the problem. That is what we need to address. Pat Hi Pat. I have a different interpretation: it is true that people are occasionally / often greedy in varying degrees. However economists idealized this greed and made it the centerpoint of the ideal economic agent. Then society created a legal person in the perfect image of this idealized economic agent. This legal person is the corporation/business firm, the epitome of pure greed. Corporations (which I'd count as if they were a separate species) have domesticated many humans and forced them to act and think like corporations too. This is what we need to address. Roberto Verzola Prehistoric peoples could kill mammoths; how about corporations? by Roberto Verzola Most legal systems today recognize the registered business firm as a distinct legal person, separate from its stockholders, board of directors or employees. In fact, laws would often refer to natural or legal persons. It should therefore be safe to conclude that such registered business firms or corporations are persons (ie, organisms), but NOT natural persons, and therefore not humans. Other social institutions have been created by humans (State, Church, etc.), but they have never quite reached the state of life and reproductive capacity that corporations attained. It would be very useful to analyze corporations *as if* they were a different species, and then to extract ecological insights from the analysis. (By corporations here, I am basically referring to registered business firms, or for-profit corporations). Corporations are born; they grow; they might also die. They can reproduce and multiply, using different methods, both asexual and sexual. We have bacteria within our bodies as if they were part of us; corporations have humans within them. Their genetic programming - profit maximization - is much simpler than human genetic programming, humans being a bundle of mixed and often conflicting emotions and motives. Corporations' computational capabilities for such maximization easily exceed most natural persons' capabilities. Therefore they
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel powered radiant heat (was Nigera)
Thanks for the tip Chip! The only reason I would want to be heating the floor with Bio-diesel instead of water or Glycol heated by solar and/or a wood fired boiler, is because I have to dry the fuel anyways. I'd rather not waste that energy so to speak so I may as well pump the fuel throough the floor while I'm heating it and heat the building... When I need to heat the next batch, my thought was to have a hopper above the heating system which is allways full and I would recharge the system with exactly the amount I remove.. Eventually I'd love to run the system on solar or another renewable heat source... Seth(Dredneck) From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 3:30:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel powered radiant heat (was Nigera) I should clarify; The oil burner system shown, is a BACKUP to the solar collector system shown here: http://cpm01.smugmug.com/Bicycles/buy-fresh-bike-local-2010/IMG0751/963631204_narY5-XL.jpg When planning stuff like this, one of the key points to keep in mind, is the order of energy, as Amory Lovins puts it. Second law of thermodynamics. While an oil burner is in the same order of magnitude as the work in this case, heating the floor, it's still a higher quality of energy. A closer match is solar power. The closer the match, the more efficient, taking the long view. esp when you factor in the cracking of the biofuel in the first place. Biofuels, like fossilfuels are just too danged convenient for their own good. :) Using your ingenuity and some more of your food powered energy (IE doing work) you could probably front load your heating needs by dreaming up and implementing a solar heat collection/distribution system, which would drop the biofuel requirements for your heating needs radically. I know you are trying to get this done on a short timeline, but please plan for migrating the main energy source from the oil burner to solar collection, I think you'll be happy you did. You don't have time to do it this year, but maybe next summer. Again, neat project, keep us posted! cheers --chipper - Original Message - From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 6:06:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Nigeria: Shell Oil's 'License to Kill' - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 11:11:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Nigeria: Shell Oil's 'License to Kill' |SNIP |I am also madly trying to pour a floor in my shop complete with in-floor heating |pipes before freeze-up(which is happening SOON!) | |I am curious if anyone out there has ever tried to run Bio-Diesel in a hydronic |in-floor heating system. It seems to me to be the perfect solution to using |energy already consumed by the drying process to heat the facility. My biggest |question is wether or not plastic pex water pipe is compatible with bio-diesel. | |Any leads on this subject would be greatly appreciated, | |Sincerely, |The Dred Neck | |Dunster BC |Canada |V0J 1J0 http://cpm01.smugmug.com/Bicycles/buy-fresh-bike-local-2010/IMG0749/963631153_nZVUP-XL.jpg Hey Seth; What you see in this picture, is an experimental greenhouse soil bed heating system, which is based on the same concept as radiant floor heating. This system uses an oil burner converted to run biodiesel. It works. This system is installed at the Dickenson College Farm CSA, which grows the food for Dickenson College in Carlisle Pa, US. This is the website: http://www.dickinson.edu/about/sustainability/college-farm/ Jen Halpin is the farmer/farm manager, and her partner, Matt is the whacko who comes up with stuff like this. You can find her contact info on the website, and they may be able to share some clues with you. Good luck! Sounds like a fun project. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20101026/521b00f9/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
