Re: [Biofuel] Testing the new list
Got your message down in Mexico. Thanks Sent from my iPhone On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:55, Chip Mefford c...@well.com wrote: Okay list; We're almost there. Keith is having issues posting to the list. I'm supposing this is due to the DNS changes that I made for the new list not fully propagating across everything as of yet. Also, the new email address (@lists.sustainability.org, rather than @sustainability.org) isn't filtering into the archive as of yet. So, none of this chatter is being archived as of yet. Which is fine. I'd actually appreciate a few echos from you all. My logs show all the email except a small handfull being delivered promptly. And Zeke, all I got was a modest amount of rain, wind never topped 20mph. So we're doing fine. Back home in WV, the snow fall is being measured in feet, and is still pounding down. Good be some happy telemarkers this week. But things are going to be messed up, and There Will Be Flood. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
[Biofuel] Andrea Rossi and his approach to Cold Fussion
Hello everyone! I'm just wondering if any of you has looked into Andrea Rossi and his approach to Cold Fussion. According to reports I've found over the net, they are about to go commercial in Greece with a 1MW power plant by October. I found the following web site to contain the most detailed information about this approach to Cold Fussion: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/ I found the information rather stunning but then again, I'm not an expert on the subject. Nonetheless, this technology is worth a look. Regards,Alex -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110607/a4fcecb5/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Sun gazing to heal the mind, body and spirit!
Several individuals have brought up to my attention what is called Sun Gazing Process which apparently has some amazing healing results. There are some medical studies about it too but I haven't researched the matter. Anyway, if anyone is interested on learning a bit more about it you could start at http://solarhealing.com/home/ --- The Solar Healing Center is focused on helping humanity to develop a better understanding of how the sun can be used to heal the mind, body and spirit as demonstrated by Hira Ratan Manek, who, as a result of sungazing, has claimed better physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health. Hira Ratan Manek (HRM), among others, have proven that a person can live just on solar energy for very long periods without eating any food. This has come to be known as the HRM phenomenon. The method is used for curing all kinds of psychosomatic, mental and physical illnesses as well as increasing memory power and mental strength by using sunlight. One can get rid of any kind of psychological problems, and develop confidence to face any problem in life and can overcome any kind of fear including that of death within 3 months after starting to practice this method. As a result, one will be free from mental disturbances and fear, which will result in a perfect balance of mind. If one continues to apply the proper sungazing practice for 6 months, they will be free from physical illnesses. Furthermore, after 9 months, one can eventually win a victory over hunger, which disappears by itself thereafter. This is a straight-forward yet effective method based on solar energy, which enables one to harmonize and recharge the body with life energy and also invoke the unlimited powers of the mind very easily. Additionally, it allows one to easily liberate from threefold sufferings of humanity such as mental illnesses, physical illnesses and spiritual ignorance. We welcome you to explore and empower yourself with HRM's teachings on how the sun can heal you _ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing™ now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPGpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090928/b0f0ce2b/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The Mask Slips, for Those with Eyes to See: Preparing for the Real Pandemic
An article related to the Tamiflu Vaccine. Worth reading. - Last week, many of the aboriginal people in the remote west coast village of Ahousaht were innoculated with the tamiflu vaccine. Today, over a hundred of them are sick, and the sickness is spreading. http://www.republicoflakotah.com/2009/the-mask-slips-for-those-with-eyes-to-see-preparing-for-the-real-pandemic/ _ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing™ now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPGpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090921/058d7e47/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Mask Slips, for Those with Eyes to See: Preparing for the Real Pandemic
I have to agree there is no such thing as a tamiflu vaccine! thanks for your fact checking... Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:32:14 +0200 To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org; sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Mask Slips, for Those with Eyes to See: Preparing for the Real Pandemic This smells more like yet an other conspiracy theory. There is no such a thing like a Tamiflu vaccine. Tamiflu, Oseltamivir is NOT a vaccine.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oseltamivir it is an antiviral drug that slows the spread of influenza (flu) virus between cells in the body by stopping the new virus from chemically cutting ties with its host cell. 35 of the 50 million Japanese have already had it, it is also not brandnew or untested. Some side effects are known, but , I don't see how this can be used to eradicate other colors... Grts Bruno M. At 16:48 21/09/2009, Alex Rodriguez wrote: An article related to the Tamiflu Vaccine. Worth reading. - Last week, many of the aboriginal people in the remote west coast village of Ahousaht were innoculated with the tamiflu vaccine. Today, over a hundred of them are sick, and the sickness is spreading. http://www.republicoflakotah.com/2009/the-mask-slips-for-those-with-eyes-to-see-preparing-for-the-real-pandemic/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing™ now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPGpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090921/d23cc6bb/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] California Insurance Help
Does anyone have a list of companies that will supply insurance for a very small Biodiesel manufacturer in California? I am starting one up but I am having the hardest time getting insurance for even just collecting waist vegetable oil. No one wants to touch me. Any help would be appreciated, Alex ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP
hi guy thank you so much for the info it really helped, and about the web chemfinder, thats a very helpful site, i really appriciate tohave friends like you. thank you once more alex ___ For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] HELP
hi guys i need help, i have a task to design a heat exchanger to cool 78% sulphuric acid, but i cant seem to find the chemical and physical properties any where, can any if you help me in this regard. thank you regards Alex ___ For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Respond on coal gassification
hi i think i might be able to help you on this one, i am working for sasol in south africa and coal gassification is one of our major processes, now if you can tell me exactly what you need to know i can organise that information for you. thanks Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am using the program Aspen, I view some possibilities about equation Redlich-Kwong and I think that it's betteer to analysed the system with Gibbs Free Energy. I need some helps, how to implementation e miscellaneous gas, that produced from e gassifier. Who can help me? Thanks a lot. Best regards Ezio ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] processor design
The plans can be sent to have either CNCplasma or water jet cutting machines to make the all important cone bottom. I am based in Australia, I live in a 75 % solar powerd house (i am yet to buy a diesel genorator and solar hot water) as part of my way of giving back to JTF everything i do is free if not used for commercial purpose. I hope to be of help. Please contact me off group [EMAIL PROTECTED] as i will have to switch off the group soon due to the bulk of email that is not about biodiesel. Regards Alex From: john owens [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] processor designDate: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:15:31 + Would there be any one with experience building processors willing to look at a CADdrawing ofmy processorand help meimprove it? ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pussy makes car Purrrrrr
I May well be wrong and i hope so animal rights groups what about human rights? but at the end of wwII the germans had a fuel shortage. I so hope i am wrong with this ! The Germans used (recycled) everything from the DEATH camps. They cooked the dead humans In the ovens ? I once saw the trays in the ovens and think i saw what looked like a drain... I am not anti german in anyway. I am more asking the question if thelepard tanks that had such deverstating power were run on a fuel that may have been human fat. This hole concept sickens me but i have to ask if humans can be so evil? to kill cats_humans to power there greed to control. Alex. I hope i am wrong From: "Bede" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: "Biofuel" Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] pussy makes car PurrDate: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:50:38 +1200http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2ObjectID=10345772 A German has angered animal rights groups by inventing an organic fuelcontaining run-over cat remains.Inventor Christian Koch, 55, of Saxony, told the Bild newspaper he had gone"170,000km without a problem" in his car on the biofuel.A 50-litre tank used about 20 cats and cost a fifth of usual diesel toproduce, he said.Bede MeredithPhone +64 21 892 801Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.codesmith.info___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] is this a better use for sump oil?
Hi all I found this link on ebay(Australia) 1.is it just a expensive filter system plan? 2. Is it worth using to "recycle" my sump oil? 3.dose it have the same emissions as "dirty diesel" http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HOME-MADE-DIESEL-BETTER-THAN-BIODIESEL-BIOFUEL-WVO-SVO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQitemZ7997660498QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] glycerine ?
Hello All I have a question about glycerine. what is the effect if after i have made biodiesel and let it settel in the prossesor but there is still a small amout of glycerine left in the prossesor after i have drained it and then make another batch will the glycerine that is left in the prossesor have a negative result on the next batch?Thanks for the advice Alex ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] (no subject)
Hello All Thanks for all the advice in the past. After a year of making Biodiesel and not being able to use it i purchased a 1994 Discovery (at the Right price ) I wanted somthing after 1996 but couldnt afford it so 1994 is it.I have checked for all the normal stuff eg cracked head ,transmission etc and it all seems ok.only some bushes have to be changed and tyres. 1. My question is about the fuel lines (what seems like hard plastic of a unknow kind )and fuel system the two pumps. Dose any one know what type of rubber is in the 1994 Landrover TDI 300 fuel system.Is it safe to use 100% Biodiesel if not what parts should i change??? (I am slowly introducing biodiesl at around 5---10% so far )but i dont want to go any higher till i get some advice about the fuel lines etc.I am just cleaning out the system slowly.but dont want to do any damage. 2. Also what is the effect of using a Petrol fuel filter but with a mix of Diesel/Biodiesel is it safeI am driving around with a 2nd new landrover filter incase my filter gets blocked but i havent found a in line filter for diesel so i am unsure if it is safe to us a Petrol filter. Thanks in advance for any adviceAlex. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] 10 Hp Diesel (from China)
this site [1]http://www.grudge.com.au/Grudge-Diesel_Engines.htm They are made in China and have a cheap feel about them. Q1 has any one used a diesel from China with B100? Q2 what type of Rubber is in the fuel system? References 1. http://www.grudge.com.au/Grudge-Diesel_Engines.htm ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power
some to Iraq with a bit of help from some presidents daddy.when he was trying to help the Iraq leader kill his neighbour in Iran(not much christian love back then) I wonder if the Bush family will have a nother go at Iran soon? well who cares they are not american, they are not white, they are not Christian, but whey might have a bit of Oil. So lets go and tell them how to live ,what to eat and all about LOVE. I do like the American people as long as they stay out of my country.if the Army of shock and Awe came. the FOX media group might call me a insergent but I would call my self a FREEDOM FIGHTER. what would others call them selves if the USA came to play hide and seek . (you hide what we sold you and we will seek your Oil) PS best anti war message i saw was how did our oil get under there sand? Least FOX news can Fillter the sand and other crap out so The USA can feel safe that the rest of the earth dosnt hate them. Sweet dreams dont be paranoid please go to bed and know G W Bush is right many people outside / inside the USA dont like the USA even more now as he has 4 more years to MURDER from afar with his smart bombs (i think they are smart compared to him) PS i like the average American but not the goverment they put in power. From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 22:15:47 -0500 the liberal media Now don't that just crack me up. A media that tows the administration line, keeps its mouth shut, doesn't ask any poignant or pertinent questions and you have the audacity to call it liberalROFFLMAO! I'm almost afraid to ask what white-bread-factory you got cranked out of. Limbaugh U? As for your old news? I don't know where you get your information from, but how about pointing the rest of the world to whatever dark-alley-information-source it is so everyone aside from yourself can be brought up to speed? if you can understand that in your face from another dumb ass American, of which I am extremely proud to be a part of. Is that the dumb part or the buttocks part? Hollywood's queer's And you really expect anyone to take you with even the first grain of salt when you vomit such bigotry, ignorance and apparent hatred? Christ. All you had to do was open your mouth to prove my point about American proneness towards ignorance. that someone's else's kids, brothers, fathers, mothers and sisters are now dieing for you to have such a privileged. And they sure wouldn't be dieing if a select group of arrogant liars and thieves under White House cover hadn't put them there to secure what hasn't existed since mop up of the last war. Which brings the matter right back to the origin of the thread. The same people lied, fabricated, manipulated and stole from the American people 30 years ago and they're doing the exact same thing again today. The only question is, When will Americans wake up? Or if your response is any indicator, perhaps the better question is Which Americans will wake up? The deluded and brainwashed or those with hopefully a half-lick of sense remaining? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Gary Carol [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power You are obviously in the dark. I wonder if YOU are the dumb one? The weapons have been located for some time and if you wouldn't listen or watch the liberal media who constantly keep anything known as positive about the current administration you would know and have read the reports already. The weapons my friend were found at a huge military complex just inside Syria. That information is now old news by the way. The dilemma is now what do we do? Proceed with step 2 of this step 1 for WWIII we are in or shouldn't we wait until we get some stability where we are at first? Seems the latter is logical if you can understand that in your face from another dumb ass American, of which I am extremely proud to be a part of. I think if you are such an expert in such international matters maybe you should get on the boat/plane with Hollywood's queer's and (we will save you a seat), head to Canada or Europe. In the meantime enjoy your right to write such dribble that someone's else's kids, brothers, fathers, mothers and sisters are now dieing for you to have such a privileged. G'Night and Sleep Safe. gr - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power G'day Todd; - Original Message - From:
[Biofuel] Pre heating with Solar heating ?
Has anyone used solar pre heating to raise the temp of the oil in any way ? (I may be waisting my time but i dont want to use only LPG gas to preheat my oil) I live in sunny Australia Any info or advice. I am very happy to listen to. if this is a silly concept please tell me Know. I must tell you i have only made one full scale batch of BD and i have so much to lern I have only just sold my old petrol (GAS) ute and yet to buy a Diesel. the exelent advice i have recived stopped me from buying the only diesel that was in my price range. But in the new year i hope to be able to buy a diesel for now i just want to set up for production of a average of 100Litres a week(thats more than i need but i want to provide it to friends as well and convert them) Regards Alex.B ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] in line oil heater
2nd message has anyone done any work on a inline heater ? what i am thinking of doing is to take a small stainless steel cooking pot weld the lid on cut two holes for pipe fittings place this on a portable electric stove i would use it to keep the tempreture up while mixing My old processor was a old natural gas water heater (right price but diddnt draine well. it will be used only for pre heating ) I have started to build a cone bottom processor and was thinking that if i was to heat the oil inline i wouldnt need to put a heater into it. What do you think??? regards Alex [ememail.gif] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] old diesel engine
this is my first ever message ( Please forgive my spelling.) I have so far only used the single stage method but will in time start the two stage method. i have limited knowlage about diesel engines my first question is rebuilding a diesel engine much different to rebuilding a petrol engine ? the reason i ask is i have been offered a old diesel for testing which is said to have a blown head gasket (oil is getting into the coolant would this be a the head gasket or some other gasket or seal??.) regards Alex [ememail.gif] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[biofuel] Fusion Energy
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/fall 2003/interview.html http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/fall%202003/interview.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Todd, 1. Talmud is a written commentaries to Torah, not an oral law. 2. Oral law was developed during the time of receiving of 10 commandments, when Moses was a judge and didn't have enough time to preside over all the cases , so he appointed Judges. Their rulings became a base for an oral law, which was later recorded in books. It encompasses many aspects of Jewish life including marital relationship, agriculture, business and so forth. 3. Jewish religion is not a sect and there is no other oral documents - everything is documented in books and interpreted from the books. Can you point out exactly to what Luc said which was true in your opinion? We all have our limited life to live and we all make our choices. Some choices make us happier then others. I'm happy with my believes. You don't sound very happy though. Alex Appal Energy wrote: Alex, I believe that you are in error as to what you think you did in your post. What I suggested was that the least you could do is post something more than generalities and your opinion, especially if your attempt is to support the claim of liar. - Original Message - From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith T [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
What wrong with calling white - white and black - black? Alex Appal Energy wrote: That's incorrect. What I did state and should have been inferred by anyone with eyes not clouded with fear, hate or rage was that the ensuing personal assaults were uncalled for. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Nazis were bloody killers of innocents. Israelis are figting bloody killers to protect innocents. Alex Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Todd: Appal Energy wrote: Alex, You seem to think that it's my place to determine whether one person or another is speaking the truth about your pet religion and all its peculiarities, nuances and distinctions. It's not. Nor do I care for it to be. So you are impliing that if its a lie you don't care? My opinion on only one matter was stated. That was relative to the needless, hate-filled and derogatory personal attack that was issued upon a list member, one who quite frankly has offered up considerably more substantiation for his opinions than you, Arthur and Matt combined up to this point. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/35008 Unfortunately, rather than address line item by line item, the lot of you prefer to exhibit violent outgassing in public space and continue to do so. Ok, this is what the line says: :This letter also regects Talmud , otherwice known as The Oral Law much to their credit as this Talmud is again the ruling factor in the action...where killing non-jews is considered as an offering in sacrifice to God. My reply: 1. Talmud is a written commentaries to Torah, not an oral law. 2. There is nothing in Talmud which says that killing of non-jews is a sacrifice to God. 3. Talmud in fact deals with issue of non-jews and says that jews should treat non-jews no differently then jews. Also only animals are used as a sacrifice to God. Therefore I conclude that Luc posted whole bunch of lies pertaining to Jewish religion. Do you agree? Hardly a responsible approach. Hardly one that instills better understanding. And hardly one that generates much sentiment other than disgust and disdain for those who erupt in violent rage and . Gandhi or Mother Theresa the three of you certainly are not. Why does he has to use out right lies as an argument? To influence unconvinced? To demonize Jewish people? I'm sure Gandhi or Mother Theresa wouldn't like this approach. I'm agains demonizing any group of prople, being it German, Palestinians or other group. I think that every one has to be responsible for what he does on individual basis. As for my personal happiness? This is now twice that you and your lot have suffered your opinion upon me, solely because I have neither need or desire to tolerate your uncontrolled rage, assinigned idealism and pettiness. Frankly? The only thing that makes my day unpleasant is having to tolerate the Arthurs, Alexs and Matts of this world. Once such obstacles are relegated to their appropriate level of insignificance life unfailingly saunters on quite happily. It seems to me that Lus is a friend of yours. There is a saying - tell me who is your friend and I tell who you are... Alex Good day. [Permanent good can never be the outcome of untruth and violence. --Mahatma Gandhi] - Original Message - From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith Todd, 1. Talmud is a written commentaries to Torah, not an oral law. 2. Oral law was developed during the time of receiving of 10 commandments, when Moses was a judge and didn't have enough time to preside over all the cases , so he appointed Judges. Their rulings became a base for an oral law, which was later recorded in books. It encompasses many aspects of Jewish life including marital relationship, agriculture, business and so forth. 3. Jewish religion is not a sect and there is no other oral documents - everything is documented in books and interpreted from the books. Can you point out exactly to what Luc said which was true in your opinion? We all have our limited life to live and we all make our choices. Some choices make us happier then others. I'm happy with my believes. You don't sound very happy though. Alex Appal Energy wrote: Alex, I believe that you are in error as to what you think you did in your post. What I suggested was that the least you could do is post something more than generalities and your opinion, especially if your attempt is to support the claim of liar. - Original Message - From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith T [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Actually Luc was telling many lies about Jewish theology. Talmud is in fact a written commentaries to Torah. It was created over the centuries by some of the greatest minds. If you go to any bookstore you can buy it there. There is an oral law as well, which was recorded into books many hundreds of years ago, you can buy them in a bookstore. This oral law deals with many very complex issues , and there is nothing of the appalling things Luc was telling about. So much for interesting theological facts. In this respect I also keep thinking of an entity called a great deceiver, the one who is here to maim, kill and destroy. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Arthur, I am puzzled, have looked through the thread and have large difficulties to find any I hate the Jews in it. I find some interesting ideological and theological facts in it, but expressed in a respectful and objective way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Todd, I think I generally outlined why I considered Luc's writing a bunch of lies. I can direct you to the source to find it out first hand - go to any Jewish bookstore or the library, you will find wealth of information there - lots of books. Some people spend their entire life studying them. May be you'll like it and become a Jewish scholar too! Alex Appal Energy wrote: Alex, Rather than calling another a liar under the guise of politeness, why not point out whatever errors exist somewhat more precisely as well as indicating any accuracies. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
There are many Jewish people who are active in bringing justice and fairness to our existence. Why Luc didn't bother to write about them? Alex Matt Golden wrote: I am literally stunned by this outburst of hate. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] smartcar
Yes, was just talking to them - got into the waiting list. Alex Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: They're taking orders now - in the thousands already. Anyone that is Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Obtaining Energy from Matter
http://www.nuenergy.org/technology/energy_from_matter.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] clean diesels more dangerous --- Keith?
Hakan, driving is awful right now - just this morning one guy undercut me on a highway, I avoided collision by pure chance. I passed him - talking away on a cell phone. Something is affecting people's brains - telling you. My guess is its a combination of a bad nutrition, general lifestyle and radio waves. People are not the same. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Keith, It is worth mentioning that they survive with less accident fatalities than US, what ever criteria you base it on. In some cases two third less, like Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries. It is also worth mentioning that the speed limits in Europe are generally higher than US. I like to think that the large difference has much to do with the vehicles. The Europeans and the Japanese might be very much better drivers, but that the Americans are that bad, I do not belive. The difference is to too large, to be only explained by general driving skills and safety consciousness. For many years, at least three decades, Mercedes and VOLVO has been world leaders in car safety and at the same time fuel consumption in its class of cars. To find an explanation for the large difference between US and Europe/Japan? It cannot only be that the Americans do not know how to drive, it must also have something to do with knowing how to make cars also. I know that I probably upset nearly the total male population in US, it is nothing that is so sacred as a man and his car, but we have to look a bit on the realities also. Hakan At 15:42 13/04/2004, you wrote: snip Now how come you don't know that, engineer's acumen and all, and I do, sans engineering, and I'm not even an American and have never lived there? And if it's true, then how do you explain all these hundreds of millions of stubbornly surviving Europeans and Japanese? Especially as they're generally more safety conscious than Americans are (and less spun)? snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OPEC Tightens Screw on Oil Supply Restrictions 2
Hakan - I think you should run as the first foreign born candidate! Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Keith and MM, My point was that it might not matter any longer who is elected, the sh-t is about to hit the fan. The World, not necessary the World population, is telling the Americans that their pillage and excesses are at the end. I tried to give a very short excerpt of reasons for this conclusion and by that invited an unnecessary discussion about details. It is not OPEC who has to carry the traditional US search for Scapegoats, it is much simpler than that. It is a lack of resources for the future!!! It becomes more and more obvious that we are at the top of world oil production, maybe with a couple of percent margin. Added to this is the rise of internal demands in former USSR and China. The latter is already out and competing for contracts from the traditional suppliers to US and developed countries. In this scenario, it is no space for US growth in use of oil. What is left is to realize that an orderly decline is the best option. SUVs should have been banned years ago, among other needed actions. It is a lot of luxury energy use that can and will be cut. The impact of this is more a reduction of industrial production, than survival of mankind. This will have very painful economical and social upheavals for US and might already be a part of the lack of growth in US employment. It is several direct relationships. The key is an orderly retreat and adoption to high energy costs, with a major supply from renewable sources. This will also give new employment opportunities and a growth in the agriculture sector, who for years have not been given the importance it deserves. This process is inevitable and the question is how painful it will be and since the deadline is set, how can it be organized in the best way? This is why four more Bush years leads to consequences for the US population, that I would not like to see. I agree that it is tempting to make the Americans suffer for their ignorance and choice, but I do not want them to suffer and Bush Co will not personally suffer for what they are doing. They will retire with wealth enough, to avoid to share the hardship of the people and the historical record for Bush, will not be worse than it already is. Energy conservation and efficiency is the key in the future. Hakan At 21:35 05/04/2004, you wrote: Hi MM I do tend to think it's ordinary people that matter. After Bush was elected, or unelected or whatever, I was saying it might be a Good Thing because the sheer in-your-face audacity of it would wake a lot of people up who'd have slumbered on happily with business-as-usual under Gore. It was quite a long time before I saw other people beginning to say that. Now quite a few are, and, though it's a bit of a struggle, I still tend to think that, despite the horrific damage levels. Generally, I am not one of the people you see thinking this way. No. I wonder if you'll agree with this? Generally, no. I didn't really think you would. I think I'll put this bit back: Gabriel Kolko -- in this writer's estimation, our most indispensable historian -- argues in a recent piece on the Counterpunch website that because a second Bush term would possibly intensify the international enmity elicited by its bumbling unilateralism, it could be preferable to a Kerry Administration: 'Kerry is neither articulate nor impressive as a candidate or as someone who is likely to formulate an alternative to Bush's foreign and defense policies, which have much more in common with Clinton's than they have differences. To be critical of Bush is scarcely justification for wishful thinking about Kerry. Since 1947, the foreign policies of the Democrats and Republicans have been essentially consensual on crucial issues -- bipartisan as both parties phrase it -- but they often utilize quite different rhetoric. 'Critics of the existing foreign or domestic order will not take over Washington this November. As dangerous as it is, Bush's reelection may be a lesser evil because he is much more likely to continue the destruction of the alliance system that is so crucial to American power...' It is becoming clear that all-too-many Kerry supporters view November's plebiscite as an end in itself. That, if Kerry should prevail, the reaction of a too-large proportion of his voters will be overwhelming relief -- Whew! That was a close one! -- followed by a repeat of Clinton-era apathy and apologetics. Whereas, a Bush victory couldn't but propagate the amazingly diverse and widespread lobbying and protest movement which saw the New York Times declare public political involvement the World's second superpower. From the unprecedented pre-war protest mobilisations, to the hundred-plus official municipal renunciations of the PATRIOT Act, to the overwhelming response to the FCC's proposed further relaxation of media ownership
[biofuel] [Fwd: Nu Fuel Discovery]
Original Message Subject:Nu Fuel Discovery Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:29:01 -0500 From: Nu Energy Research Laboratories [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Nu Energy Research Laboratories [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Nu Energy Research Laboratories To: eGroup list (nuenergy) [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Radiant Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED], JLN Labs [EMAIL PROTECTED], Free Energy Claims [EMAIL PROTECTED], Free Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED], energy2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good Day Everyone! Here is the final stage of technology transfer that I have promised... http://www.nuenergy.org/technology/radon_fuel.htm Throughout the following weeks I will introduce real working hardware beginning with my IONIC DIODE and then with my ULTRA FUEL CELL. These have been developed beyond bench top experiments into practical products as many of you have been expecting for a long time now. They are not yet at the level of powering a home but it will not be hard to realize that by scaling them up they could be powering a home in short time. Power assistance should be realized straight away. With the acceptance of my radon fuel discovery in conjunction with the ionic diode and ultra fuel cell hundreds of kilowatt outputs can be realized. But first, we must take baby steps to reach our final goal of energy independence that will lead to our personal freedoms. My technology transfer is the first step that we all take together. Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [Fwd: Cold fusion and geophysics: the current situation]
Re:Cold fusion - from Nuenergy list. Alex Original Message Subject:Cold fusion and geophysics: the current situation Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:39:47 -0500 From: Nu Energy Research Laboratories [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Nu Energy Research Laboratories [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Nu Energy Research Laboratories To: eGroup list (nuenergy) [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: energy2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED], Free Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED], Free Energy Claims [EMAIL PROTECTED], JLN Labs [EMAIL PROTECTED], Radiant Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nordemann DJR; Mineracao Metalurgia 53 (1989) 51 (in Portuguese). Cold fusion and geophysics: the current situation A wrap-up of the cold fusion story at the time of writing, around the middle of 1989, commenting on the FPH paper and that of Cribier+ only. The usual interest and doubt is expressed, as well as an explanation of the suspect fusion reactions. Nordemann goes further, however, and takes up a suggestion of Cribier et al, that the neutrons may arise from collisions between alpha particles and deuterium; the alphas could come from natural heavy isotopes (U, Th, Rn) present in the palladium as impurities. Nordemann looks at Rn, one of whose decay products is (214)Po, which decays to give off an alpha particle with an energy of 7.68 MeV, sufficient to cause the reaction D + (4)He -- H + n + (4)He; i.e. the alpha or (4)He is not itself changed. Nordemann suggests that Pd may accumulate radon gas in sufficient quantity to let this happen. Radon is ubiquitous, being a product of uranium decay, and U is everywhere. The process could explain the erratic results obtained by various researchers, and Nordemann ironically suggests that some workers, who state that heat pretreatment of the palladium is to be avoided, do so in order not to drive out the radon... He concludes, however, with the thought that the subject is still important, and if a fusion reaction is indeed behind the positive results, this could have implications not only for our energy future but also for geophysical phenomena such as vulcanism, seismic activity and continental origin. SE Jones would agree. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
This is what's keeps bugging me. At the pump diesel fuel is 66 C (Cdn) per litre. Bulk canola oil, grown here, in Ontario, $1.27 per litre , in 55 gal barrels (I have to pick it up). There seems to be a huge disparity in cost. At one end , its a processed diesel fuel, byproduct of crude oil, which went through many different cycles + retail at the pump, just have to press a button to fill the tank. At the other end is a product grown locally and stored at the warehouse with minimal processing built in? And they don't look like people working on 1000 % profit... Something doesn't add up... Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Chinese farms - was RE: [biofuel] The Oil we eat (Harper's)
Thank you - will read! Alex Keith Addison wrote: Hello Rebecca, welcome Okay, for an absolute newbie... please define your terms. What are the characteristics of Chinese farms / farming? It's a farming system. It's been proposed and is indeed used as a much better foundation for rural development in Southeast Asia and throughout the 3rd World than the industrialised model has proven to be. Probably easier if you have a look at this: http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010122king/ffc.html F. H. King: Farmers of Forty Centuries Without the illustrations though, sadly. Best Keith Thanks, Rebecca --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi George, Alex I'd take that a bit further. I believe a 5-10 acre farm is capable of providing most of the nutritional needs of 50-100 families, or about 10 families/acre. (Sorry for the US measures). I'd agree with that. Chinese farmers were doing nearly that a hundred years ago, and we've learnt a very great deal since then. (Chinese farms and farmers refers more to a farming system than to farms specifically in China - Chinese-type farms. You find them all over Southeast Asia, and all over the world.) Best Keith George George Page www.seabreezefarm.net Vashon Island, WA USA -Original Message- From: alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:28 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Oil we eat (Harper's) Hi! Brian C. wrote: Mish, (or Keith?) True perhaps, as far as sustainability and efficiency are concerned, small farms are the best solution. However, we have overpopulated this planet to such a degree that there would never be enough land to support our populations with only small, efficient farms. I disagree with this statement. It takes very little land to support sustainable food production. For example 1 acre of land can provide food for a family of 4, IMO. Alex --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kirk Interesting one - I posted it before, but no harm in posting it again. There was some discussion on it: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/31859/ A couple of weeks ago it came up at SANET, the SustAg list, with quite a lot more discussion, including some objections by Biofuel snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Oil we eat (Harper's)
Hi! Brian C. wrote: Mish, (or Keith?) True perhaps, as far as sustainability and efficiency are concerned, small farms are the best solution. However, we have overpopulated this planet to such a degree that there would never be enough land to support our populations with only small, efficient farms. I disagree with this statement. It takes very little land to support sustainable food production. For example 1 acre of land can provide food for a family of 4, IMO. Alex --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kirk Interesting one - I posted it before, but no harm in posting it again. There was some discussion on it: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/31859/ A couple of weeks ago it came up at SANET, the SustAg list, with quite a lot more discussion, including some objections by Biofuel member Kim Travis, with which I agreed. I posted a response to the original post there, from Misha - sustainable food production and sustainable fuel/energy have a lot in common, quite a lot about both in my reply, so I'll post it again here: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 06:46:29 +0900 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The oil we eat Howdy Misha, and all And peace be unto you too. But hey, cheer up a bit - we haven't quite managed to destroy exactly everything yet. Abandon hope all ye who enter here is what it says on the gates of hell, and we ain't there yet either. As David/the Dalai Lama said, optimism is the only option, and not only that, it makes sense - could even be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you get it right (an optimistic view!). Anyway, as one poverty-level-income community activist to another, yes, I saw the piece, and posted it at our Biofuel mailing list, where it got itself discussed some, though not as much as I'd've liked. Pleased to have it in our archives though, along with a few others such. It's here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/31846/ The Oil We Eat: Following the food chain back to Iraq Here's another one: Eating Fossil Fuels by Dale Allen Pfeiffer http://idaho.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/6361_comment.php Another: Eating Oil - Food supply in a changing climate. By Andy Jones from Resurgence issue 216 January / February 2003 http://resurgence.gn.apc.org/issues/jones216.htm The Biofuel mailing list, by the way, run by Journey to Forever, is rather wide-ranging. Biofuels as alternatives come with a context, the full energy context, and it all gets examined there, by a very international membership. Anyway, what did I say about it... I enjoyed Manning's piece, a good read, but he didn't take it far enough, IMO. Indeed, industrialised agriculture's extraction and value-adding food system is not farming at all, and nothing about it is sustainable, not even its perpetrators' bottom-lines. But where all these articles have been weak is in failing to realise the potential of sustainable agriculture, which after all is not just some idealistic head-in-the-clouds theory, it's something millions of farmers worldwide are doing, with millions more joining them all the time. Organic farmers grow maize without the use of fossil-fuel inputs, getting the same or better yields and better prices. And not wrecking the place, no externalities. Nothing special. Richard Manning gets it more right than the others have done - at least he realises there is such a thing as a sustainable way of doing it, but not how far it goes. As Kim said, just about everything it says was predicted decades ago by the pioneers of modern sustainable farming, who also showed that none of it is at all necessary. But I don't agree with Manning's main thesis. The sentence you quote struck me too: Writes Manning: [The rise of a]griculture was not so much about food as it was about the accumulation of wealth. It benefited some humans, and those people have been in charge ever since. I rather agree that they have been in charge ever since, but not for that reason, and I don't think that's how it happened. Even if it did happen that way, why did some benefit more than others? What gave them the edge in the first place? G.T. Wrench, in his Reconstruction by Way of the Soil, paints a vivid picture of the tension between the nomadic pastoralists of the plains
Re: [biofuel] Depletion of Oil and Natural Gas
Hakan Falk wrote: MM, I think that the EVs and hybrids based on biodiesel, are much better and viable alternatives to any hydrogen vehicle. Especially if diesel can work on DIY mustard/canola oil! Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Daryll: Darryl McMahon wrote: Alex, I cannot speak for you. I can only speak and act for myself. In my small local world, I try not to forget about the welfare of creatures I encounter, large or small. I won't waste bandwidth with the small things I do that I think make things better. But I also know that my small world is not so small. The songbirds I enjoy here in summer travel to Mexico, and the southern U.S. and the Caribbean in winter. If their winter habitat is destroyed, they will not return to my locale in summer. The wind powered electricity I support through Green Tags is generated in Bruce County. The natural gas that is used to heat my home comes predominantly from Alberta. And so on. There is a small local world that I act upon, but it is firmly connected to the rest of the planet, including your small local world. Every spring I'm getting suprised that I see any birdsat all! This is the miracle on its own! So, I will try to enhance the welfare of creatures in my local world, but not at the expense of creatures elsewhere in the bigger world. And I do not claim to understand all the impacts of my actions on the planet, good or bad. I do try to understand what the likely consequences of my actions are, at least in broad strokes, and that understanding shapes my future actions. I will undoubtedly continue to consume electricity. I know that in Ontario, the electrical grid is supplied predominantly by nuclear, large scale hydro and fossil fuels (mostly coal and natural gas). There is a still-trivial contribution from wind power. Given the government mandate to close down coal-fired production by 2007, I weigh my efforts to reduce my consumption of grid power (conservation, alternative generation) against the benefits of reducing coal being burned to produce the equivalent amount of electricity. Given that photovoltaics are not currently practical for me due primarily to the lack of sunlight we get here over the course of the year (e.g. no days of full sun here from October 13 to December 29 inclusive in 2003), I will consider the VW-turbine concept. But, that consideration includes many factors, including birds. In my situation I already know that birds don't spend much time around my roof. They do spend time around the neighbour's bird feeders (which attracts several cats), and they nest and perch in my trees, and on my fences, and they forage in my berries and garden. And I expect such a turbine will supply only a small fraction of my household power requirements, so I weigh the resources it will use against other things I can do to obtain a similar level of benefit (e.g. buy Green Tags to cover the equivalent of all my household electrical consumption). So, Alex, don't give up on your values, especially not on my say-so. I ask that you think about the larger world, do your own research and thinking, and then do what you think is best for you. I believe if you consider the larger world, what is best for you will usually also be what's best for your world. Darryl McMahon Darrryl, what part of the world are you in? May be in Ontario? Regards, Alex alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darryl, again , you are probably right on a global scale. Does it mean that in my small local world I should forget about welfare of tiny creatures? Alex Darryl McMahon wrote: Alex, I admire the absolutism of your convictions regarding protection of bird life. Perhaps because I can't manage it any more. It is the extrapolation of the position that defeats me. For example, I cannot use any petroleum-based products because oil spills can kill birds. I cannot use natural gas, because sour gas releases can kill birds. I cannot have windows, because they can kill birds. I cannot use a bus or train, because they can kill birds. I cannot use electricity from the grid because transmission wires can kill birds. And so on. I have long ago accepted the concept of greater good / lesser evil as part of my personal philosophy. This very e-mail conversation undoubtedly has some negative consequence of which I am not even aware (telephone cables strung to support the link, production of the computer I am using, production of the electrical energy I am using). Coming back to the wind turbine issue. I continue to support wind turbines because I believe they are better for the environment (including birds) than the conventional sources they will displace (coal, natural gas, nuclear, large-scale hydro). That can happen today. Perhaps energy from disassociation of matter will happen someday on a practical scale. If so, perhaps it will be so benign that we will choose to use it to replace even wind turbines. But for today, the prospect of that possibility does not dissuade me from promoting the use of wind energy (and other ready to use alternatives) today. My journey continues to be one of many small steps. Darryl McMahon alex [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: Farming - was Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Keith: Keith Addison wrote: Hi Alex, Gustl Alex, if you want to be a farmer you really, really, really should read this first, and then you'll get a lot more out of The One Straw Revolution, and a lot more out of farming too: An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard ... get this right and so many of the other problems will simply vanish. Yea, verily. Spend some time in our Small Farms library, there's great stuff for you there, and lots more to come (Journey to Forever's not just about biofuels, not even mainly about biofuels). Yes, this is exctly what I'm going to do Your library is great ! Regards, Alex Gustl, your memory's good, you did spell it right, and yes, it is worth the read. Regards Keith Ok! Thank you, Gustl. Alex Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo Alex, Monday, 12 January, 2004, 16:14:52, you wrote: ...snip... What kind of farming interests you, Alex ? No-till ? a How did you guess? a I'm looking at several options for tilling now - one with so called a chiesel plow, another with rake plow - both giving as little damage to a the soil as possible! a Alex Do a search for the book The One Straw Revolution. Author, near as I can remember which may not be too near to the proper spelling is Yasanobu Fukuoka. You may like it. Whether or not it is worth the read. Happy Happy, Gustl Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] People kill birds
Hakan - what you describe is absolutely appalling, beyond my imagination - barbarian... Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Alex, We talked about windmills, cats etc. Why do we not talk about the largest and most ruthless killer of birds on this planet. All over the world the humans kill birds in so many ways. I we could concentrate on the most efficient methods and get rid of them first, a very large difference could be made. To talk about the wind turbine method, seems to me to be the maybe least efficient thing you can do if you really care about wild life and killing birds. Of course, if you have a hidden agenda with other goals, then it might have a purpose. Have anyone heard about the French/Spanish netting method during the migration season. They rise large nets on poles at mountain ridges in the Pyrenees and catch all kind of migration birds. If we could have a hunting free day every 20 year, we probably saved more birds that any amount of windmills could kill during the same period. Just think about if we could have a hunting free day every year, wouldn't that be an efficient and worthy goal to work for. Hakan At 19:44 12/01/2004, you wrote: Hi, Robert: robert luis rabello wrote: alex wrote: I think that this is an established fact. I have asked you to support your contention. Reiteration is not support. No, you have to prove without reasonable doubt that wind turbine doesn't kill birds - to me this is an established fact. Now imagine the situation: you spend tens of thousand to install the turbine, and every day it kills someone. This is a red herring. Wind turbines simply don't kill someone every day. This is the reason I will never use turbines on my property, unless it is 100 % proven that it won't harm a single bird. An argument that cats kill birds doesn't prove that you have to kill more of them by turbines. In my opinion, turbine is not an answer. What is the real answer? - Energy derived from disassociation of matter. Matter is a conserved energy. Does it has to be based on chain reaction? -No. Look at http://www.nerl.org.http://www.nerl.org. If you actually believe in non nuclear disassociation of matter, I can dismiss your posts as irrelevant. Most of the people in this forum are looking for real solutions to energy problems, rather than fantasy and scam Robert, I only pointed out here that there are other ways to use nuclear energy rather then employing chain reaction which is used by current NGSs. It is still based on nuclear energy, I must attest. The concept is quite proven. If you want to know more, I suggest to read a book by I.Asimov Electron, proton and neutron. Alex robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Bryan - to tell you the truth, I don't know. But I don't want to sacrifice my local birds for the welfare of all the birds on Earth. Alex Bryan Brah wrote: This thread has become tiresome. Alex, The point of this discussion is not to prove that since cats kill more birds than turbines then turbines are somehow ok. Rather the point is that even the lowly housecat is more dangerous to birds than turbines. Your refusal to install a turbine because it may kill a single bird merely pushes the responsibility for avian welfare to another source. Do you honestly believe that using grid-supplied, coal or nuclear generated electricity is better and safer for birds? -BRAH -Original Message- From: alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 12:44 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine Hi, Robert: robert luis rabello wrote: alex wrote: I think that this is an established fact. I have asked you to support your contention. Reiteration is not support. No, you have to prove without reasonable doubt that wind turbine doesn't kill birds - to me this is an established fact. Now imagine the situation: you spend tens of thousand to install the turbine, and every day it kills someone. This is a red herring. Wind turbines simply don't kill someone every day. This is the reason I will never use turbines on my property, unless it is 100 % proven that it won't harm a single bird. An argument that cats kill birds doesn't prove that you have to kill more of them by turbines. In my opinion, turbine is not an answer. What is the real answer? - Energy derived from disassociation of matter. Matter is a conserved energy. Does it has to be based on chain reaction? -No. Look at http://www.nerl.org. If you actually believe in non nuclear disassociation of matter, I can dismiss your posts as irrelevant. Most of the people in this forum are looking for real solutions to energy problems, rather than fantasy and scam Robert, I only pointed out here that there are other ways to use nuclear energy rather then employing chain reaction which is used by current NGSs. It is still based on nuclear energy, I must attest. The concept is quite proven. If you want to know more, I suggest to read a book by I.Asimov Electron, proton and neutron. Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Darryl, again , you are probably right on a global scale. Does it mean that in my small local world I should forget about welfare of tiny creatures? Alex Darryl McMahon wrote: Alex, I admire the absolutism of your convictions regarding protection of bird life. Perhaps because I can't manage it any more. It is the extrapolation of the position that defeats me. For example, I cannot use any petroleum-based products because oil spills can kill birds. I cannot use natural gas, because sour gas releases can kill birds. I cannot have windows, because they can kill birds. I cannot use a bus or train, because they can kill birds. I cannot use electricity from the grid because transmission wires can kill birds. And so on. I have long ago accepted the concept of greater good / lesser evil as part of my personal philosophy. This very e-mail conversation undoubtedly has some negative consequence of which I am not even aware (telephone cables strung to support the link, production of the computer I am using, production of the electrical energy I am using). Coming back to the wind turbine issue. I continue to support wind turbines because I believe they are better for the environment (including birds) than the conventional sources they will displace (coal, natural gas, nuclear, large-scale hydro). That can happen today. Perhaps energy from disassociation of matter will happen someday on a practical scale. If so, perhaps it will be so benign that we will choose to use it to replace even wind turbines. But for today, the prospect of that possibility does not dissuade me from promoting the use of wind energy (and other ready to use alternatives) today. My journey continues to be one of many small steps. Darryl McMahon alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Robert: robert luis rabello wrote: alex wrote: I think that this is an established fact. I have asked you to support your contention. Reiteration is not support. No, you have to prove without reasonable doubt that wind turbine doesn't kill birds - to me this is an established fact. Now imagine the situation: you spend tens of thousand to install the turbine, and every day it kills someone. This is a red herring. Wind turbines simply don't kill someone every day. This is the reason I will never use turbines on my property, unless it is 100 % proven that it won't harm a single bird. An argument that cats kill birds doesn't prove that you have to kill more of them by turbines. snip remainder Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Ok! Thank you, Gustl. Alex Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo Alex, Monday, 12 January, 2004, 16:14:52, you wrote: ...snip... What kind of farming interests you, Alex ? No-till ? a How did you guess? a I'm looking at several options for tilling now - one with so called a chiesel plow, another with rake plow - both giving as little damage to a the soil as possible! a Alex Do a search for the book The One Straw Revolution. Author, near as I can remember which may not be too near to the proper spelling is Yasanobu Fukuoka. You may like it. Whether or not it is worth the read. Happy Happy, Gustl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Martin: So called nuclear batteries are well known for a very long time. NASA used one based on thermoelectricity: weight- 4lbs, output- 60 W for 10 years. This battery is a very primitive one compare to what Bruce is doing and T.C Moray was doing in 1930th. I bet that not that many people ever heard of Gustave Le Bon, And yet he was one of the greatest minds of his generation. The only reference to his work found now is attributed to his psychology work and yet he wrote 2 books devoted to the use of nuclear energy: Evolution of matter and Evolution of forces. Devices of T.C. Moray are based on these books. CD with these 2 books are available on www.nuenergy.org. I bought them and enjoy reading them. (I'm not related in any way to the seller). Thank you for your generous $1000 offer - and it could be riskier then you think, but I really don't need your money. If you have some extra $30 - why don't you invest them in the books by Le Bon? Regards, Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Hi, Robert: robert luis rabello wrote: alex wrote: I think that this is an established fact. I have asked you to support your contention. Reiteration is not support. No, you have to prove without reasonable doubt that wind turbine doesn't kill birds - to me this is an established fact. Now imagine the situation: you spend tens of thousand to install the turbine, and every day it kills someone. This is a red herring. Wind turbines simply don't kill someone every day. This is the reason I will never use turbines on my property, unless it is 100 % proven that it won't harm a single bird. An argument that cats kill birds doesn't prove that you have to kill more of them by turbines. In my opinion, turbine is not an answer. What is the real answer? - Energy derived from disassociation of matter. Matter is a conserved energy. Does it has to be based on chain reaction? -No. Look at http://www.nerl.org. If you actually believe in non nuclear disassociation of matter, I can dismiss your posts as irrelevant. Most of the people in this forum are looking for real solutions to energy problems, rather than fantasy and scam Robert, I only pointed out here that there are other ways to use nuclear energy rather then employing chain reaction which is used by current NGSs. It is still based on nuclear energy, I must attest. The concept is quite proven. If you want to know more, I suggest to read a book by I.Asimov Electron, proton and neutron. Alex robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
MH wrote: robert luis rabello wrote: I have asked you to support your contention. Reiteration is not support. alex wrote: No, you have to prove without reasonable doubt that wind turbine doesn't kill birds - to me this is an established fact. Alex, aren't you an aspiring farmer ? Yes, I have a farm in Grey County! alex wrote: robert luis rabello wrote: Now imagine the situation: you spend tens of thousand to install the turbine, and every day it kills someone. robert luis rabello wrote: This is a red herring. Wind turbines simply don't kill someone every day. alex wrote: This is the reason I will never use turbines on my property, unless it is 100 % proven that it won't harm a single bird. An argument that cats kill birds doesn't prove that you have to kill more of them by turbines. What kind of farming interests you, Alex ? No-till ? How did you guess? I'm looking at several options for tilling now - one with so called chiesel plow, another with rake plow - both giving as little damage to the soil as possible! Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine was: turbines kill birds
Hakan, please don't have bad feelings - I have a great respect to what you are doing. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Steve, I have to disagree with you, it was a quite smart posting. This if his goal was trolling and to destroy the original discussion. It was quite successful also and he managed to move the discussion to something completely different. LOL I will therefore re-post the link to the original discussion, Plug-n Wind turbine, a development spec. http://energy.saving.nu/plugin/windturbine.shtml If anyone want to pick up the original topic again. Hakan At 16:09 10/01/2004, you wrote: dont remember who sent that silly post that turbines kill birds.. but it is my belief that this is an urban legend. Turbines just do not turn fast enough that a bird will not see them and get out of the way. Perhaps whomever said this was refering to home brew turbines which in reality really do turn MUCH MUCH faster than those found on wind farms. Guess it is my opinion that the person who started this stupid rumor... without showing where the bird bodies lay must be a sparrow brain. So... With this in mind... Show me give me three places I can find something that really shows that birds are killed. We definitely have been using wind turbines in the Netherlands for hundreds of years.. dont see any dead birds there. Have wind farms in California ... Dont see any dead birds there. Have them in florida... no dead birds there.. We dont have them in Louisiana. To many hunters killing birds here. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Martin Klingensmith wrote: Alex, the closest we can come to a perfect source of energy is the sun. Martin - sun energy is the same as the one Bruce is working on - dissociation of matter. However the problem with sun energy is that it is not evenly distributed. For example here in Ontario we can definitely use more sun - especially today (-20 c) As long as people rely on increasing amounts of energy to do everything we want to do, we are going to have to utilize different methods of getting this energy. Windmills are one of the most promising methods of power generation (conversion), and they cannot be overlooked because a few birds get killed. As far as a current amplifier goes, I hope you are joking. There is no device that can take energy and create more energy from it. It's not even something that the many people on this list wish to see more of. Martin, what we are talking about is an energy of dissociation of matter - plain NE. Bruce proposing devices which can use NE safely right on the spot - not on humangous Nuclear Generating Stations. Highways look like an eyesore to me, so do power lines. Let's get rid of them. You won't need any power transmission lines. You didn't read any of the previous messages I sent, did you? Try this: http://www.cleanpowernow.org/birdkills.php I've red this article. Regards, Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Darryl, the fact that it is not ready to use doesn't mean that it is not working. Bruce Perreault research is based on work of T.C Moray and books by Gustave Le Bone. I advice you to take a second look at his site. Regards, Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Darryl, thank you for your time end efforts in taking a second look. I think the essence of what Bruce is doing can be found at www.nuenergy.org/alt/radiant_energy_tube_construction.htm. The idea is to use electron emitting radioactive substances for electrical current amplification. Now regarding cats and birds. My cat was eating like a pig and yet she was killing birds and proudly was demonstrating the catch to me. I guess it was a kind of a sport...At the same time I know 2 cats who live in a barn and don't even bother to hunt anything around them - they are fully dependent on the food from a supermarket. Cats probably are no different from people -some like outdoor life and others just a coach potatoes.. Saying this, there is no sense to introduce a turbine which kills even more birds , the ones remained after cats perils and other dangers in their life. Besides they really look like an eyesore, to me, anyway. I think the real solution is in what Bruce is doing - 3 kw power station in every basement. Alex Darryl McMahon wrote: OK Alex, I took a second look. Nothing there excites me. The fuel cell has been around since 1837. Did you look at my page on the hydrogen economy? http://www.econogics.com/en/heconomy.htm Last I heard, the cold fusion excitement has chilled considerably, as *no* attempts to replicate the results were successful. The biocell has been around longer than I have, but to my knowledge, no one has been able to scale it up to commercially viable sizes with reasonable efficiency. My recollections on the Perrault effect are vague. Perhaps someone else on the list is more knowledgeable. If you really want me to spend more of my time (which I value) on this subject, please present something more substantive to pique my interest. Just because something works, does not necessarily make it useful. Just because we can do something, does not mean we should. The fact that the technology is not ready to use means I cannot apply it to solve problems in a timeframe that I consider meaningful. Wind turbines, solar thermal, conservation, energy efficiency, biofuels, battery electric vehicles, human powered vehicles, hybrids, etc interest me because they are ready to use, and can be applied in the short term. Perhaps there is a magic bullet solution out there. I don't know for sure that there is not. I do know that many people, many smarter and better educated than me, have spent a great deal of time looking over many decades, and have little in the way of tangible results to show for it. I do not mean to tell you to give up the search, only that with the benefit of experience, it is not the road for me. My small progresses are not exciting (to anyone but me anyway), but they do show tangible, if only incremental, progress towards a more sustainable energy model. Getting back to the gist of my original post - do you have a plan for the removal of housecats in order to preserve birds? Or any of the other current realities that injure and kill far more birds than wind turbines? A! the solar heating panels (actually the blower) have just kicked on. Most welcome this morning, -31 C and -43 C is the reported wind chill equivalent. Unfortunately, the deep cold looks to have wiped out the winter crops in the unheated greenhouse. Perhaps soil heaters and planter covers for the next attempt. It will mean that my hopes of a solar-only solution will have to be amended to accommodate reality. Darryl McMahon Organization: toronto telecom To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Nu Energy Research Laboratories [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:52:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Darryl, the fact that it is not ready to use doesn't mean that it is not working. Bruce Perreault research is based on work of T.C Moray and books by Gustave Le Bone. I advice you to take a second look at his site. Regards, Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
Turbines kill birds. Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine
I think that this is an established fact. Now imagine the situation: you spend tens of thousand to install the turbine, and every day it kills someone. In my opinion, turbine is not an answer. What is the real answer? - Energy derived from disassociation of matter. Matter is a conserved energy. Does it has to be based on chain reaction? -No. Look at http://www.nerl.org. Alex robert luis rabello wrote: alex wrote: Turbines kill birds. Alex Please qualify your statement. Large turbines in migratory paths have been known to kill raptors. This is unfortunate, and work needs to be done in this area. However, making a blanket statement of this nature leads uninformed people to believe that all turbines in all areas kill all birds. This is simply not the case. Further, Hakan was referring to very small, rooftop mounted machines. There is no evidence that these kill birds--especially the vertical axis turbines to which he specifically refers. Are you trolling, or do you have something substantive to submit to this discussion? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Reading with interest
Just want to add that any modern toilet is a waste of water. It is quite easy to design a toilet which will treat any waste into safe components very efficiently right on the spot - but this will be the end of subdivisions and municipally treated wastes ( And I'm not talking about septic tank). Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
Derek, as you know , Solomon used to say we reap what we sow or something like that... If we consider Canada and Brazil, given the same soil fertility, Brazil has probably 3 times more BTU from the sun then Canada ;-( And as an aspiring farmer, I must admit that it makes all the difference when it comes to yield - BTW, warmer lands in Ontario are being taken out by subdivisions, and farmlands further North are 20 % less productive. The bottom line is, you can sow palm trees in Brazil and get a great oil harvest or you can sow sugar cane in Ontario and still get 3 times smaller harvest ... They made a wrong decision by making emphasis on Ethanol, IMHO, but they can reverse it by starting sowing oil producing crops. Regards, Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alex, Although, in general, I prefer Diesel engines and either biodiesel or SVO/WVO over ethanol and spark ignition engines, one must admit that in the case of Brazil the best solution over all has probably been ethanol given the huge amounts of sugarcane they had available to them. In your case, Canada, you have lots and lots of Canola, and would prefer that. It all has to be looked at relative to the local environment. Cheers, Derek To me the question is - was ethanol the best way for Brazil to solve the fuel problem? The same question can be applied to many discussions on this list. Yes, there are many ways of making the fuel - but why to choose curved line over the straight line? I think we always have to try to approach straight line as much as possible in our decision making. Right now I'm convinced that straight line is a diesel on SWO approach. It took me some time to figure it out - at first I was a proponent of ethanol, then steam, then Bio-diesel, and only now I realized that SWO + diesel is an ideal combination. What is most appealing to me is the fact that SWO can be bought anywhere, from a local farmer shed to a corner variety store. Also it can be grown locally and easy to process - basically Canola just needs to be crashed and filtered. Efficiency in a diesel is quite high ~ 40 %, plus it can be used in a burner for heat! Getting back to Brazil - just want to make the record straight. For some reason in these discussions it is perceived that Brazil is next thing to the Garden of Eden because it is making lots of Ethanol. Yet it could be doing 10 times better if it produced SWO instead for driving and used diesel as a main engine. In general Brazil has a tremendous level of poverty among its population. It also systematically destroys Amazon forest. Sorry - Brazil is not ny model of paradise. Alex Keith Addison wrote: Some comments: Keith Addison wrote: It seems to me that SVO is a better solution then ethanol. Why?- Because it is easy to make and easy to get, license free. One really doesn't have to make aplant for it - it is very safe too! Alex, we need MORE biofuels options, not less. Anyway in practise it doesn't make good sense to say one proven technology is necessarily better than another, it depends on the particular circumstances. The best technology approach usually ends up with the problem being fitted to the solution, whether it fits well or not, instead of the other way round. Then come all the so-called unexpected side-effects, and the net result is too often just the opposite of what was intended. I agree - I'm just talking as an Ontario resident, here we really can use more sun, but we got lots of productive land and decent hard - working people. Lets suppose for a minute that diesel engine could run on SVO without any mods. Will we need diesel fuel or biodiesel ? - No. Why not to put pressure on manufacturers in this case to make diesel engines which can run on SVO without any mods? This is what it says at the TDI-SVO controversy page at Journey to Forever, and I've often said so here, and so have others: ... But in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made, supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel, biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'er up, switch on and go, stop and switch off, like any other car. Currently only the Elsbett system does that. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html It's one reason we promote SVO use. The more people use SVO, no matter what system or method they use, the more it's likely to dawn on the manufacturers that there's a demand for SVO diesels. Biodiesel would then have been a transitional fuel, though it will continue to be used for decades in the very many long-lasting diesels
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
To me the question is - was ethanol the best way for Brazil to solve the fuel problem? The same question can be applied to many discussions on this list. Yes, there are many ways of making the fuel - but why to choose curved line over the straight line? I think we always have to try to approach straight line as much as possible in our decision making. Right now I'm convinced that straight line is a diesel on SWO approach. It took me some time to figure it out - at first I was a proponent of ethanol, then steam, then Bio-diesel, and only now I realized that SWO + diesel is an ideal combination. What is most appealing to me is the fact that SWO can be bought anywhere, from a local farmer shed to a corner variety store. Also it can be grown locally and easy to process - basically Canola just needs to be crashed and filtered. Efficiency in a diesel is quite high ~ 40 %, plus it can be used in a burner for heat! Getting back to Brazil - just want to make the record straight. For some reason in these discussions it is perceived that Brazil is next thing to the Garden of Eden because it is making lots of Ethanol. Yet it could be doing 10 times better if it produced SWO instead for driving and used diesel as a main engine. In general Brazil has a tremendous level of poverty among its population. It also systematically destroys Amazon forest. Sorry - Brazil is not ny model of paradise. Alex Keith Addison wrote: Some comments: Keith Addison wrote: It seems to me that SVO is a better solution then ethanol. Why?- Because it is easy to make and easy to get, license free. One really doesn't have to make aplant for it - it is very safe too! Alex, we need MORE biofuels options, not less. Anyway in practise it doesn't make good sense to say one proven technology is necessarily better than another, it depends on the particular circumstances. The best technology approach usually ends up with the problem being fitted to the solution, whether it fits well or not, instead of the other way round. Then come all the so-called unexpected side-effects, and the net result is too often just the opposite of what was intended. I agree - I'm just talking as an Ontario resident, here we really can use more sun, but we got lots of productive land and decent hard - working people. Lets suppose for a minute that diesel engine could run on SVO without any mods. Will we need diesel fuel or biodiesel ? - No. Why not to put pressure on manufacturers in this case to make diesel engines which can run on SVO without any mods? This is what it says at the TDI-SVO controversy page at Journey to Forever, and I've often said so here, and so have others: ... But in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made, supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel, biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'er up, switch on and go, stop and switch off, like any other car. Currently only the Elsbett system does that. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html It's one reason we promote SVO use. The more people use SVO, no matter what system or method they use, the more it's likely to dawn on the manufacturers that there's a demand for SVO diesels. Biodiesel would then have been a transitional fuel, though it will continue to be used for decades in the very many long-lasting diesels around the world made before any shift by manufacturers to full SVO capability. This is a very reasonable approach. Brazil, with its warm climate , should switch to SVO or Turpentine! instead. Not so, they've established a sound, effective and sustainable system of producing large amounts of fuel ethanol, you'd want them to abandon it for no very clear reason and start all over again with something that might not fit nearly so well? I really don't buy it . It looks like some interest groups greatly benefited from ethanol production. The same old story... No. Some interest groups did benefit, but, unlike, say, Halliburton's corrupt arrangements in Iraq with the Bush Gang, they weren't at all the only ones to benefit. Arguments that the whole society didn't benefit, including at local levels (all-important), fall part on closer examination. For instance: Fuel alcohol in Brazil The food shortages and price increases that Brazil suffered a few years ago, were blamed on the ProAlcool programme (fuel ethanol). However, a closer examination does not support the view that bioethanol production has adversely affected food production since Brazil is one of the world's largest exporters of agricultural commodities and agricultural production has kept ahead
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
Some comments: Keith Addison wrote: It seems to me that SVO is a better solution then ethanol. Why?- Because it is easy to make and easy to get, license free. One really doesn't have to make aplant for it - it is very safe too! Alex, we need MORE biofuels options, not less. Anyway in practise it doesn't make good sense to say one proven technology is necessarily better than another, it depends on the particular circumstances. The best technology approach usually ends up with the problem being fitted to the solution, whether it fits well or not, instead of the other way round. Then come all the so-called unexpected side-effects, and the net result is too often just the opposite of what was intended. I agree - I'm just talking as an Ontario resident, here we really can use more sun, but we got lots of productive land and decent hard - working people. Lets suppose for a minute that diesel engine could run on SVO without any mods. Will we need diesel fuel or biodiesel ? - No. Why not to put pressure on manufacturers in this case to make diesel engines which can run on SVO without any mods? This is what it says at the TDI-SVO controversy page at Journey to Forever, and I've often said so here, and so have others: ... But in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made, supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel, biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'er up, switch on and go, stop and switch off, like any other car. Currently only the Elsbett system does that. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html It's one reason we promote SVO use. The more people use SVO, no matter what system or method they use, the more it's likely to dawn on the manufacturers that there's a demand for SVO diesels. Biodiesel would then have been a transitional fuel, though it will continue to be used for decades in the very many long-lasting diesels around the world made before any shift by manufacturers to full SVO capability. This is a very reasonable approach. Brazil, with its warm climate , should switch to SVO or Turpentine! instead. Not so, they've established a sound, effective and sustainable system of producing large amounts of fuel ethanol, you'd want them to abandon it for no very clear reason and start all over again with something that might not fit nearly so well? I really don't buy it . It looks like some interest groups greatly benefited from ethanol production. The same old story... Why this either/or thinking? It needs both/and thinking. Agreed. Alex Best Keith Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
Keith Addison wrote: If Rudolf Diesel was able to make an engine which runs on SWO in 1913 I don't see the reason why it can't be done in 2003. The Elsbett motor ran on SVO as standard, and was the forerunner of the modern direct injection diesels. Darren posted this a while back: http://www.eilishoils.com/pages/news.htm see July ?, 2003 Ireland's FIRST PPO car. it started perfectly each time in temperatures of -20 deg C and lower After all we are trying to explore life on Mars! If for DIY guy takes $300 to make car to run on SWO, I don't see why car makers couldn't do it as an option - a truly multi-fuel car. I think Canada alone can grow canola oil for the whole world to run on. Uh-huh - monocrop deserts, industrialised agriculture, heavily dependent on fossil-fuel inputs, and using (wasting) yet more fossil fuels to transport the product vast distances. Do you really think From the point of view of Ontario resident - it can be workable, I think. We already grow canola which is a hardy plant, byproduct can be used as a feed. Now imagine - people are taking a ride to the country on the weekend to visit some local cooperative and to get eggs, butter and oil to ride on! Alex that offers any answers? Keith Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
I only wish they mistakenly start mass-produce such an engine. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Alex, Rudolf Diesel's engine for SVO was a failure, he actually tried to make an engine that was meant to run on coal dust. He got money to develop that and he ended up with an engine that was working with vegetable oil. Maybe we need some more useful mistakes, maybe as a result of the Bush money for the hydrogen car. -:) Hakan At 21:56 15/12/2003, you wrote: If Rudolf Diesel was able to make an engine which runs on SWO in 1913 I don't see the reason why it can't be done in 2003. After all we are trying to explore life on Mars! If for DIY guy takes $300 to make car to run on SWO, I don't see why car makers couldn't do it as an option - a truly multi-fuel car. I think Canada alone can grow canola oil for the whole world to run on. Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Economics of ethyl ester biodiesel process
Alon, better modify your car to run on peanut oil. Alex alon s. wrote: I have question for the biodiesel makers in the group. I had gathered some materials here in Israel, for making biodisel. I am using ethanol not methanol . Both from health and environmental reasons. And I am wondering if it is worth while, economically I brought potassium hydroxide for 0.81 cents a kg very chip indeed I will also have to include the cost of caustic soda for reducing fat acids in the two stage process, but it is only small amount. And finally the most expensive ingredient - ethanol. I have checked with the local chemical supply store there it cost 3.21 $ per liter of synthetic alcohol which supposed to be chipper then distilled one . I will need 300 ml per liter , so the cost is something like 0.96 $ per liter if you include the other materials and labor it comes to like 1.10$ - 1.20$ per liter of biodiesel . Today I been at the gas station and they had a sale of diesel at 0.636$ a liter the normal price of diesel is 0.74$ liter so it seems that if I won't find chipper source of ethanol it is not economical for my to make biodiesel. I am interested in what solution other people using the ethyl ester process had find to the high ethanol price, and where do they find chip source of ethanol, that is without distilling it themselves . I am working on building a still apparatus , but if the price of ethanol is so high isn't it more worth while to sell the ethanol instead of making bidiesle with it? Alon Sfarim [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
It seems to me that SVO is a better solution then ethanol. Why?- Because it is easy to make and easy to get, license free. One really doesn't have to make aplant for it - it is very safe too! Lets suppose for a minute that diesel engine could run on SVO without any mods. Will we need diesel fuel or biodiesel ? - No. Why not to put pressure on manufacturers in this case to make diesel engines which can run on SVO without any mods? Brazil, with its warm climate , should switch to SVO or Turpentine! instead. Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
If Rudolf Diesel was able to make an engine which runs on SWO in 1913 I don't see the reason why it can't be done in 2003. After all we are trying to explore life on Mars! If for DIY guy takes $300 to make car to run on SWO, I don't see why car makers couldn't do it as an option - a truly multi-fuel car. I think Canada alone can grow canola oil for the whole world to run on. Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] turpentine
Does anyone know if turpentone can be used in place of SVO/biodiesel? It was prodused in great quontities out of wood. Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel]single driver
Folks - a this point I'm trying to solve my own energy problem. It seems to me that the easiest way to get on the road is with dual-fuel setup - worm-up with diesel and continue driving on vegy oil. ( I can get it cheap from Menonites). Will get small diesel pick-up for this and mount fuel tank in the box. My question is - can I buy a new one or warranty will be voided? Which one will you recommend? Regards, Alex . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Bubble Wash Assembly
Wasn't it 23% 50 years ago? Alex Dan Maker wrote: Appal Energy said: Actually? :-) To be precise? (chuckle, chuckle...) Air is more or less comprised of: Nitrogen, N2, 78.084% Oxygen, O2, 20.947% snip heh, I was to lazy when I typed that message to look up the numbers, but yeah. Mostly Nitrogen. Cheers, Dan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: business of power generation
Hakan, lately Canada is becoming more and more as US, like it or not.. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Sorry Alex, Yes, I could not be of much help. The only thing I could go after is some knowledge how it is handled in Sweden, Germany and Spain. Those cases are different and Spain is maybe the most corruptive with terms most favorable to established business interests. Germany is the best on handling small power generation. http://energy.saving.nu/germany/germanenergy.shtml I read Darryl's post and it was very good description, I had no idea that Canada was lagging behind to such a degree. I always looked at Canada as a very honest and forward looking country, but in this particular case it does not seem so. Otherwise Canada and Sweden have a lot in common, apart from the intensive passion for ice hockey. I have a tendency to look at Canada more as a European country and maybe that is wrong. Hakan At 22:42 19/11/2003, you wrote: On a serious side, I strongly believe in the power of land. Land gives independance. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Alex, This depends on what your local electricity distribution association can pay you and also what legislation that might exist in Canada for this. Often on the country side, you might have a local electricity distribution association, who buy and distribute from the central grid. They can also sell to the central grid, if they have local energy producers. You really need to talk to them about it and they can probably give you the answers. It is worth pursuing, but it would be sheer luck if you found someone close to you with experience and answers on your local conditions on this list. The organization and rules differ between countries and even within countries. My guess is that it is feasible and that your local distribution association have the answers. You might find that your electricity supply only can be contracted for peak demand and that you need 3 to 4 generators for this, but the price will be higher. Why do you only have to heat up the pond, don't you have heating needs for your farm and surroundings also? Hakan At 21:02 19/11/2003, you wrote: I'm in Ontario! There is lots of talk about grid problems in NA. We have lots of Canola fields here in Ontario. If every farmer will put a generator in his field and start generating electricity...sorry to say, but it can put nuclear folks out of business. Alex Martin Klingensmith wrote: It's a decent concept, but your 100kw generators are going to be inefficient and waste a lot of your energy. Not to mention they probably aren't designed to run for long periods of time continuously at high power output. Also, you're essentially taking solar power, converting it to chemical energy, converting it to mechanical energy, then converting it to electrical energy. I would expect efficiencies in the 1% range. Maybe you could use this to fund a PV, wind, or solar boiler array? More expensive, but much better for the environment. ps. You can sell as much power as you want as long as you are a legal generator, but net metering is limited depending on what state you live in. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Power generation - spike times
Martin, unfortunately our 3-dimensional world is fueled (and greased) by the money. I really don't see any technical problems with this set - up. Ideally it should be 2 generators running at 50 % rated load - looks very redundant. So the actual obstacle is the regulation. I probably will end up getting 2 smaller diesel gensets (Hardy diesel?) just to get a feel of it and in case of another blackout. But as a business model - shouldn't it work? I actually was talking to some Menunites and made them very excited about the whole idea. They are thinking of putting together a biodiesel COOP. Regards, Alex Martin Klingensmith wrote: At least do it for a better reason than the money. Of course, you don't take in to account generator failure and the cost of connecting (IF 'they' will even let you connect) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: business of power generation
Thank you for a very valuable information. Alex Friedrich Friesinger wrote: Hi Alex, i have a 100kva Generator,he uses on small Load 6ltr. and on havy load up to 24ltr. an hour on Diesel. So you run the Generator for one year regards, Fritz from Quebec - Original Message - From: alex To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: business of power generation Hi , folks! I'm thinking for quite a while about a business case of power generation on a farm - or in a rural area. Let's suppose that I'm a farmer with 200 acres. I grow canola - then press it into oil. So, if I get a harvest of 200 tons of canola seeds, I press it into 200,000 litters of canola oil. Then I have a pond and beside it a few 100 kWh diesel generators. So I power them with oil and use pond water for cooling. The question is - how many generators can I have and how much power (and money) I can make by selling electricity to a local utility, using canola oil which I grow on my farm? Regards, Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: business of power generation
Hi , folks! I'm thinking for quite a while about a business case of power generation on a farm - or in a rural area. Let's suppose that I'm a farmer with 200 acres. I grow canola - then press it into oil. So, if I get a harvest of 200 tons of canola seeds, I press it into 200,000 litters of canola oil. Then I have a pond and beside it a few 100 kWh diesel generators. So I power them with oil and use pond water for cooling. The question is - how many generators can I have and how much power (and money) I can make by selling electricity to a local utility, using canola oil which I grow on my farm? Regards, Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: business of power generation
I'm in Ontario! There is lots of talk about grid problems in NA. We have lots of Canola fields here in Ontario. If every farmer will put a generator in his field and start generating electricity...sorry to say, but it can put nuclear folks out of business. Alex Martin Klingensmith wrote: It's a decent concept, but your 100kw generators are going to be inefficient and waste a lot of your energy. Not to mention they probably aren't designed to run for long periods of time continuously at high power output. Also, you're essentially taking solar power, converting it to chemical energy, converting it to mechanical energy, then converting it to electrical energy. I would expect efficiencies in the 1% range. Maybe you could use this to fund a PV, wind, or solar boiler array? More expensive, but much better for the environment. ps. You can sell as much power as you want as long as you are a legal generator, but net metering is limited depending on what state you live in. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: business of power generation
Hakan, I like to swim in the winter! Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Alex, This depends on what your local electricity distribution association can pay you and also what legislation that might exist in Canada for this. Often on the country side, you might have a local electricity distribution association, who buy and distribute from the central grid. They can also sell to the central grid, if they have local energy producers. You really need to talk to them about it and they can probably give you the answers. It is worth pursuing, but it would be sheer luck if you found someone close to you with experience and answers on your local conditions on this list. The organization and rules differ between countries and even within countries. My guess is that it is feasible and that your local distribution association have the answers. You might find that your electricity supply only can be contracted for peak demand and that you need 3 to 4 generators for this, but the price will be higher. Why do you only have to heat up the pond, don't you have heating needs for your farm and surroundings also? Hakan At 21:02 19/11/2003, you wrote: I'm in Ontario! There is lots of talk about grid problems in NA. We have lots of Canola fields here in Ontario. If every farmer will put a generator in his field and start generating electricity...sorry to say, but it can put nuclear folks out of business. Alex Martin Klingensmith wrote: It's a decent concept, but your 100kw generators are going to be inefficient and waste a lot of your energy. Not to mention they probably aren't designed to run for long periods of time continuously at high power output. Also, you're essentially taking solar power, converting it to chemical energy, converting it to mechanical energy, then converting it to electrical energy. I would expect efficiencies in the 1% range. Maybe you could use this to fund a PV, wind, or solar boiler array? More expensive, but much better for the environment. ps. You can sell as much power as you want as long as you are a legal generator, but net metering is limited depending on what state you live in. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: business of power generation
On a serious side, I strongly believe in the power of land. Land gives independance. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Alex, This depends on what your local electricity distribution association can pay you and also what legislation that might exist in Canada for this. Often on the country side, you might have a local electricity distribution association, who buy and distribute from the central grid. They can also sell to the central grid, if they have local energy producers. You really need to talk to them about it and they can probably give you the answers. It is worth pursuing, but it would be sheer luck if you found someone close to you with experience and answers on your local conditions on this list. The organization and rules differ between countries and even within countries. My guess is that it is feasible and that your local distribution association have the answers. You might find that your electricity supply only can be contracted for peak demand and that you need 3 to 4 generators for this, but the price will be higher. Why do you only have to heat up the pond, don't you have heating needs for your farm and surroundings also? Hakan At 21:02 19/11/2003, you wrote: I'm in Ontario! There is lots of talk about grid problems in NA. We have lots of Canola fields here in Ontario. If every farmer will put a generator in his field and start generating electricity...sorry to say, but it can put nuclear folks out of business. Alex Martin Klingensmith wrote: It's a decent concept, but your 100kw generators are going to be inefficient and waste a lot of your energy. Not to mention they probably aren't designed to run for long periods of time continuously at high power output. Also, you're essentially taking solar power, converting it to chemical energy, converting it to mechanical energy, then converting it to electrical energy. I would expect efficiencies in the 1% range. Maybe you could use this to fund a PV, wind, or solar boiler array? More expensive, but much better for the environment. ps. You can sell as much power as you want as long as you are a legal generator, but net metering is limited depending on what state you live in. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: business of power generation
Darryl, this is very interesting. Long time ago I was talking to Caterpillar people who were pushing their generators, and I talked to some people in Ontario Hydro ( an old one, not privitized yet). From what I can see not much changed.. Yes, its hard to get into utility's busines. Mike Harris promised a lot of deregulation and at the end just sold out 407.. May be will call you one day. Regards, Alex Darryl McMahon wrote: Sorry, I missed Alex's original post (Yahoo is bouncing me about twice a week lately). In a rural area in Ontario, odds are that your grid connection will be directly with Hydro One (formerly Hydro Ontario). Expect to be disappointed. Prior to the recent provincial election, the previous (Tory) government had vowed to move on the net metering issue (after about 2 decades of inaction by various administrations since the issue was first raised to my knowledge). The new (Liberal administration) has not, to my knowledge, covered this in their election platform. Even if they had, they are backing away from their campaign commitments at a dead run on all fronts. I, and others, have approached this with local utilities, the old Ontario Hydro and Hydro One. They have not been receptive. Unless there is a law forcing them to permit you to connect, don't expect much co-operation. Do expect to see some expensive requirements in terms of equipment they will want you to install to protect their grid from you. Most people with small amounts of generating capacity end up not bothering with a grid connection (less than 20 mW). There are several ways to accomplish this. Most do not sever their utility connection. Many install transfer switches so they can choose to provide their own power, or buy from the grid. Transfer switches can be set up at the circuit level, so that you can choose which equipment will be powered by the grid (rather than an all-or-nothing approach), and which is powered internally. If you are looking for power continuity or implementing power generated from (micro)hydro, wind or solar, you will probably end up with batteries and an inverter. In that case, you can use your generators to provide power and recharge the batteries, or the grid. There was an exception last May (2003), when the Tories invited bids from suppliers of 20 mW or more to provide peak generation capacity, especially if located close to metro Toronto, and able to use natural gas as their primary fuel. (I submitted a demand side management proposal in response to that RFP to the then Commissioner of Alternative Energy which was ignored.) Darryl McMahon www.econogics.com Ottawa, Ontario Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alex, This depends on what your local electricity distribution association can pay you and also what legislation that might exist in Canada for this. Often on the country side, you might have a local electricity distribution association, who buy and distribute from the central grid. They can also sell to the central grid, if they have local energy producers. You really need to talk to them about it and they can probably give you the answers. It is worth pursuing, but it would be sheer luck if you found someone close to you with experience and answers on your local conditions on this list. The organization and rules differ between countries and even within countries. My guess is that it is feasible and that your local distribution association have the answers. You might find that your electricity supply only can be contracted for peak demand and that you need 3 to 4 generators for this, but the price will be higher. Why do you only have to heat up the pond, don't you have heating needs for your farm and surroundings also? Hakan At 21:02 19/11/2003, you wrote: I'm in Ontario! There is lots of talk about grid problems in NA. We have lots of Canola fields here in Ontario. If every farmer will put a generator in his field and start generating electricity...sorry to say, but it can put nuclear folks out of business. Alex Martin Klingensmith wrote: It's a decent concept, but your 100kw generators are going to be inefficient and waste a lot of your energy. Not to mention they probably aren't designed to run for long periods of time continuously at high power output. Also, you're essentially taking solar power, converting it to chemical energy, converting it to mechanical energy, then converting it to electrical energy. I would expect efficiencies in the 1% range. Maybe you could use this to fund a PV, wind, or solar boiler array? More expensive, but much better for the environment. ps. You can sell as much power as you want as long as you are a legal generator, but net metering is limited depending on what state you live in. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send
Re: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinuminjection?
I think that this concept is not a hoax. Platinum is a most remarkable element, which serves as a catalyst to many chemical reactions. How they did it? Possibly by heating platinum wire to a very high temperature and putting it on the way of intake air. Alex - Original Message - From: merlinsaintgermain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:23 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinuminjection? Dear robert, Why do you advise people to hold onto their wallets? What do you know about platinum fuel injection? If one can economically reduce fuel consumption by up to 30%, greatly reduce harmful emissions, and dramatically reduce engine wear and maintenance, then isn't that good for the wallet? Merlin merlinsaintgermain wrote: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution with platinum injection? Extracts from National Fuelsaver company site: With a simple connection to a vacuum line, the Gasaver adds microscopic quantities of platinum to the air-fuel mixture entering the engine. Hold onto your wallets, everyone! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution withplatinuminjection?
Bob, thank you for pointing towards that very interesting web site - I'm not going to buy this device, since it doesn't look like I'll be able to recoup the cost with fuel savings. Alex - Original Message - From: Bob Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Dramatically reduce diesel engine pollution withplatinuminjection? Alex wrote: I think that this concept is not a hoax. quoting from an epa website note thge last sentence http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/reports.htm The overall conclusion from these tests is that the Platinum Gasaver did not significantly change vehicle emissions or fuel economy for either the FTP or HFET. device clearly did not produce the large -- greater than 2.0 mrcent -- fuel economy benefits claimed by the manufacturer. Therefore, users of the device would not be expected to realize either an emission or fuel economy benefit. Vehicle operation and performance were unchanged by the device. -- -- Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob --- Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe. - Frank Zappa --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article
No, this is not true. Each raw food contains enzymes to digest itself. During cooking these enzymes are being destroyed, which makes pancreas to produce enzymes for digestion. With the time pancreas gets overloaded and cannot produce metabolic enzymes. Pancreas = life. Alex - Original Message - From: Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article The enzymes that digest the food you eat are those that come from your own digestive system and injected at different points of the digestion process . I agree with Bob. The enzymes that comes with the food are denatured by the strong acid (HCl) in the stomach. Chris =-Original Message- =From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article = = =Bob, =from what I've red, enzymes help to digest. =Without them, eating wouldn't be possible... =Just want to point out that I'm on Ann Wigmore diet for 3 years, =growing my =own food, =and experience it first hand. =Alex =- Original Message - =From: Bob Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:45 AM =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article = = = Alex wrote: = Cooking destroys enzymes. = Enzymes = life. = Alex = = = Alex, eating destroys enzymes. They are made of protein, which are = turned into an amino acid soup in your stomach, otherwise, you wouldn't = be able to absorb them. = = -- = -- = Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob = =-- =- = Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is = the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there = is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block = of the universe. - Frank Zappa = = --- = [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] = = = = Biofuel at Journey to Forever: = http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = = Biofuels list archives: = http://archive.nnytech.net/ = = Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. = To unsubscribe, send an email to: = [EMAIL PROTECTED] = = Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to =http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = = = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://archive.nnytech.net/ = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article
It is even more beneficial to it fermented foods, which are already predigested. Alex - Original Message - From: Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article The enzymes that digest the food you eat are those that come from your own digestive system and injected at different points of the digestion process . I agree with Bob. The enzymes that comes with the food are denatured by the strong acid (HCl) in the stomach. Chris =-Original Message- =From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:55 PM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article = = =Bob, =from what I've red, enzymes help to digest. =Without them, eating wouldn't be possible... =Just want to point out that I'm on Ann Wigmore diet for 3 years, =growing my =own food, =and experience it first hand. =Alex =- Original Message - =From: Bob Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:45 AM =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article = = = Alex wrote: = Cooking destroys enzymes. = Enzymes = life. = Alex = = = Alex, eating destroys enzymes. They are made of protein, which are = turned into an amino acid soup in your stomach, otherwise, you wouldn't = be able to absorb them. = = -- = -- = Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob = =-- =- = Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is = the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there = is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block = of the universe. - Frank Zappa = = --- = [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] = = = = Biofuel at Journey to Forever: = http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = = Biofuels list archives: = http://archive.nnytech.net/ = = Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. = To unsubscribe, send an email to: = [EMAIL PROTECTED] = = Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to =http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = = = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://archive.nnytech.net/ = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article
Cooking destroys enzymes. Enzymes = life. Alex - Original Message - From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article Thor Skov wrote: Gotta agree with the notion of whole food here. Obviously there are naturally occurring substances that you don't want to eat. But food grown naturally that is, in healthy soils, without the use of artificial fertilzers (using manure compost, worm castings, etc. and not Miracle Gro or worse) and pesticides, is better for you. Actually, no. There is currently no evidence supporting this position. Check the following paper for a nice review. Bourn D, Prescott J. 2002. A comparison of the nutritional value, sensory qualities, and food safety of organically and conventionally produced foods. Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. Jan;42(1):1-34. This makes sense intuitively and from the standpoint of reducing overall chemcial exposure. As stated before, everything is a chemical. Operationally *redefining* a word to support an emotional viewpoint is disingenuous at best. Also, whole foods are better than processed foods, raw foods better than cooked (again, with obvious exceptions). Simply and patently untrue. Cooking destroys many toxins and anti nutrients as well as increasing bioavailability of some nutrients. Moreover, processing enhances shelf life and limits microbial toxins. See the references below for some background. You can experiment with this yourself, by modifying your own diet and observing the results. This approach lacks rigor and frankly just begs for a confirmation bias error. If you really want to educate yourself, I'd strongly suggest getting a copy of Harold McGee's 'On food and Cooking'. Also, you might want to visit the 'Research-Based Appraisals of Alternative Diet Lore' website at http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/research/index.shtml for a readable lay summary. Cheers. John Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article
Bob, from what I've red, enzymes help to digest. Without them, eating wouldn't be possible... Just want to point out that I'm on Ann Wigmore diet for 3 years, growing my own food, and experience it first hand. Alex - Original Message - From: Bob Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article Alex wrote: Cooking destroys enzymes. Enzymes = life. Alex Alex, eating destroys enzymes. They are made of protein, which are turned into an amino acid soup in your stomach, otherwise, you wouldn't be able to absorb them. -- -- Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob -- - Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe. - Frank Zappa --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article
Quinn, I'm going to frame your post! Alex - Original Message - From: Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article John, I just have to jump in here. As a nutritional counselor and herbalist for over 20 years, I have to disagree. It has been shown time and again that plants grown in soil which has been augmented with manure and compost and 'natural' supplements produces food which is higher in nutrients than food which is produced with chemical fertilizers. One review based on questionable funding does not a definitive answer make. Certainly chemical processes have enabled us to create fruits and vegetables which are bigger and bigger and brighter and shinier. I call this BayWatch Food. It is the equivalent of the buff but vacuous people who populate the hype and media presented by those who stand to gain from convincing the saps that bigger and shinier is better. The same people who buy SUVs. Cooking certainly does make many foods more nutritionally available, and then again, many foods serve us best raw. Shelf life has no meaning whatsoever for the health of a human being. As far as lacking scientific 'rigor', I think personally that we've taken the need for 'validation' and 'proof' to such an extreme that it has become a mockery of itself. Western 'science' serves a purpose. Proof *is* something to strive for. But to say that if something can't be proven by Western scientific means then it has no validity is to deny common sense. We have become a culture who can't see the forest for the smog. And yet because we can't pinpoint the exact cause of the smog for the complexity beyond our capabilities (weather patterns, multitudes of interactions of pollutants and toxins, elevation at any given area, poor record keeping, obfuscation by parties which stand to suffer should the truth be known, ephemeral political leaders, money, money, money...), we refute those who simply say, like the child at the parade of the emperor's new clothes: something is wrong Something is wrong. And it has to do with chemicals and politics and oligarchies and denial and money, and money, and money. Something is wrong. Our food is wrong, our goals are wrong, our fuel dependence is wrong, our long-term planning is wrong (non-existant), our cultural mindset is wrong. And, sorry, but I believe that your take on this (below) is mis-guided at best. Peace, Quinn - Original Message - From: John Hayes To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Popular Mechanics article Thor Skov wrote: Gotta agree with the notion of whole food here. Obviously there are naturally occurring substances that you don't want to eat. But food grown naturally that is, in healthy soils, without the use of artificial fertilzers (using manure compost, worm castings, etc. and not Miracle Gro or worse) and pesticides, is better for you. Actually, no. There is currently no evidence supporting this position. Check the following paper for a nice review. Bourn D, Prescott J. 2002. A comparison of the nutritional value, sensory qualities, and food safety of organically and conventionally produced foods. Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. Jan;42(1):1-34. This makes sense intuitively and from the standpoint of reducing overall chemcial exposure. As stated before, everything is a chemical. Operationally *redefining* a word to support an emotional viewpoint is disingenuous at best. Also, whole foods are better than processed foods, raw foods better than cooked (again, with obvious exceptions). Simply and patently untrue. Cooking destroys many toxins and anti nutrients as well as increasing bioavailability of some nutrients. Moreover, processing enhances shelf life and limits microbial toxins. See the references below for some background. You can experiment with this yourself, by modifying your own diet and observing the results. This approach lacks rigor and frankly just begs for a confirmation bias error. If you really want to educate yourself, I'd strongly suggest getting a copy of Harold McGee's 'On food and Cooking'. Also, you might want to visit the 'Research-Based Appraisals of Alternative Diet Lore' website at http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/research/index.shtml for a readable lay summary. Cheers. John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms
Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article
Keith, thank you for your reply and comments. Yes, I live in Ontario, Canada and we enjoy sun here - but we have lots of pollution too. My question to you is: What's wrong with living in harmony with nature, at least trying too? Why do I have to go to school on health physics if I want to do it? What's wrong with browsing through the soil and health library? In my opinion there are some really fascinated books there... Btw, I didn't refer to health food as whole food. I repeat, to me health food, is food which is alive. Some good books about it are Enzyme nutrition by Howell and Sprouting book by Ann Wigmore. Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article Hello Alex, Bob and all Bob, my humble comments are below... - Original Message - From: Bob Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article Alex wrote: Dan, I disagree with what you say. If sun radiation was linked to cancer it doesn't really mean it's causing it. sorry I can't let this go by. Wrong, wrong, wrong... nothing, plants, animals, nothing would survive on the surface of the planet without ozone filtering the short wavelength light. (sunlight just the same) Current evolutionary theory suggests that life began a few meters below the surface of the earth (under water) due to the deadly flux of sunlight, about 4 billion years ago- give or take a few hundred million. - I basically refer here to conditions on the surface of our planet, like when you look up and see clouds, blue sky, glimpse of sun, and understand that it is very well done! Yes, like a burnt steak! You obviously don't live in the south (no, of the planet, not of the US). This year's Antarctic ozone hole is the second largest ever observed, according to scientists from NASA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), and the Naval Research Laboratory. The Antarctic ozone hole is defined as thinning of the ozone layer over the continent to levels significantly below pre- 1979 levels. Ozone blocks harmful ultraviolet B rays. Loss of stratospheric ozone has been linked to skin cancer in humans and other adverse biological effects on plants and animals. The size of this year's hole reached 10.9 million square miles on September 11, 2003. It was slightly larger than the North American continent, but smaller than the largest hole ever recorded, on September 10, 2000, when it covered 11.5 million square miles. [more] 2003 ozone 'hole' approaches, but falls short of record, NASA NEWS RELEASE, Spaceflight Now, September 28, 2003 http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0309/28ozonehole/ Etc etc etc. This is what causing cancer - chemicals which accumulate in the body. meaningless. food and water are chemicals. Toxins which accumulate in the body, whether natural or not, as well as radiation and perhaps other causes too. Sunscreens too. Basically, underlying cause is luck of healthy food and lifestyle. - To me water is just water, but chlorine and fluoride you put into it - these are chemicals... This is a very subjective way of classifying things. so tell me, what is health food? Broccoli? nope, it's known to contain substances which cause cancer. Vitamins? careful, there is a condition which can be deadly, overdosing on fat soluble vitamins, particularly A. - I'd like to refer you to www.soilandhealthlibrary.org. Basically health food is food which is alive. Frankly, I'm not a great believer in evolution...In my opinion man was created to coexists with other creatures, because everything should be in harmony. Once this balance is destroyed - thickness starts. Thickness? Health literally means wholeness. Health foods are whole foods, or should be - naturally grown in fertile soils, not denatured or processed so as to destroy their wholeness. To refer someone to Steve Solomon's www.soilandhealthlibrary.org for something like this is not reasonable. First, it'd help to get the url right: www.soilandhealth.org. Second, there are scores of books there, in three or four different sections. It's a bit like saying because it says so at the British Library, or on the Internet. Many of the books at soilandhealth.org actually contradict each other in various ways (Steve and the JtF Small Farms library share a lot and collaborate a lot - http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html), and almost all of them predate the widespread use of the term health food. The books at these two libraries have much to say about health that's of great importance and is not being taken into account today (several of them are essential to a full understanding of health
Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article
Keith, on many points you are actually right, my reply was a bit out of the context - sorry, always in a hurry, I work in a multi - tasking environment. Just before taking a health physics course - cause of disease, based on what I've red in soil and health library. Bottom line - external factors may contribute, but not cause the disease. Disease comes from the inside. In other words, if you take 2 people and let them sit on a sun, one may get sick, and another not, which entirely depends on how healthy they are. Health of the person is based on condition of their liver, pancreas, kidneys and so on which in turn depends on the amount of toxins in the body (chemicals), and many other factors. Sun is not guilty. Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article This all seems a little disconnected Alex. Keith, thank you for your reply and comments. Yes, I live in Ontario, Canada and we enjoy sun here - but we have lots of pollution too. You questioned sunshine as a cause of cancer, which indeed it can be. My question to you is: What's wrong with living in harmony with nature, at least trying too? Who ever said anything was wrong with it? Certainly not me, neither said nor implied, I've very often said quite the opposite (and practise what I preach, as much as I'm able). Why do I have to go to school on health physics if I want to do it? If you want to do what, live in harmony with nature? Bob said you need a short course on health physics because of what you were saying about the causes of disease, and I agreed with him (and still do). What's wrong with browsing through the soil and health library? Nothing whatsoever, as I said. But that's not what you proposed. In my opinion there are some really fascinated books there... Indeed there are, as I said (some of them scanned by me, if you have a closer look). But referring someone to an entire library (and getting the url wrong) to support your point doesn't make any sense. Btw, I didn't refer to health food as whole food. I know you didn't, I did. Your reference to health food was in the context of the soil and health library, and so was my response. I repeat, to me health food, is food which is alive. Some good books about it are Enzyme nutrition by Howell and Sprouting book by Ann Wigmore. Which are not in the soil and health library. Oh well. Keith Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article Hello Alex, Bob and all Bob, my humble comments are below... - Original Message - From: Bob Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article Alex wrote: Dan, I disagree with what you say. If sun radiation was linked to cancer it doesn't really mean it's causing it. sorry I can't let this go by. Wrong, wrong, wrong... nothing, plants, animals, nothing would survive on the surface of the planet without ozone filtering the short wavelength light. (sunlight just the same) Current evolutionary theory suggests that life began a few meters below the surface of the earth (under water) due to the deadly flux of sunlight, about 4 billion years ago- give or take a few hundred million. - I basically refer here to conditions on the surface of our planet, like when you look up and see clouds, blue sky, glimpse of sun, and understand that it is very well done! Yes, like a burnt steak! You obviously don't live in the south (no, of the planet, not of the US). This year's Antarctic ozone hole is the second largest ever observed, according to scientists from NASA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), and the Naval Research Laboratory. The Antarctic ozone hole is defined as thinning of the ozone layer over the continent to levels significantly below pre- 1979 levels. Ozone blocks harmful ultraviolet B rays. Loss of stratospheric ozone has been linked to skin cancer in humans and other adverse biological effects on plants and animals. The size of this year's hole reached 10.9 million square miles on September 11, 2003. It was slightly larger than the North American continent, but smaller than the largest hole ever recorded, on September 10, 2000, when it covered 11.5 million square miles. [more] 2003 ozone 'hole' approaches, but falls short of record, NASA NEWS RELEASE, Spaceflight Now, September 28, 2003 http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0309/28ozonehole/ Etc etc etc. This is what causing cancer
Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article
This is a small article from Oct. 2003 Popular Mechanics, page16. *** Explosive Plutonium. What was generally believed to be safest chemical form for storing nuclear waste is more explosive than previously realized. In the journal Science, scientists from Denmark's University of Aarhus warn that plutonium oxide may react with water that leaks into storage casks, releasing explosive amounts of hydrogen. Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article
Dan, every element is radioactive to some degree. Some places, just around where we live, have a certain detectable level of radioactivity, which some say is beneficial for people. The only nasty radiation comes out when atom is being split - in reactors and bombs. In this particular case, Plutonium has a half -life of 24,000 years which indicates that radioactivity of it is very moderate. Alex - Original Message - From: Dan Maker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article Alex said: Explosive Plutonium. What was generally believed to be safest chemical form for storing nuclear waste is more explosive than previously realized. In the journal Science, scientists from Denmark's University of Aarhus warn that plutonium oxide may react with water that leaks into storage casks, releasing explosive amounts of hydrogen. Hmm, could this be used to product hydrogen for the new hydrogen economy? or would it be radioactive hydrogen that, when burned would produce radioactive water? Cheers, Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article
Dan, I disagree with what you say. If sun radiation was linked to cancer it doesn't really mean it's causing it. This is what causing cancer - chemicals which accumulate in the body. Sunscreens too. Basically, underlying cause is luck of healthy food and lifestyle. On the contrary, sun = life. Water already contains some radioactive isotopes of Hydrogen - this is what heavy water is. In any case, experiments on production of Hydrogen from water were performed in 19th century by Becguerel and Curies. No mentioning that water or other elements got radioactive. I believe Bruce Perreault was doing similar experiments - I will ask him for detailed explanation - he is the foremost authority in this field now. Generally speaking, natural radioactivity by itself is quite safe, or may be beneficial, unless you start tinkering with splitting of nucleus. Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Dan Maker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article Alex said: Dan, every element is radioactive to some degree. True. Some places, just around where we live, have a certain detectable level of radioactivity, which some say is beneficial for people. Possible. The only nasty radiation comes out when atom is being split - in reactors and bombs. False. UVA radiation (from the sun) has been linked to skin cancer. Madam Curie died from cancer caused, in part, from the radiation she recieved from the minerals she was studying, not from a nuclear reactor. Then there's Radon gas, which is radioactive and has been linked to lung cancer. In this particular case, Plutonium has a half -life of 24,000 years which indicates that radioactivity of it is very moderate. Yes, Plutonium, having a long half life, is less radioactive than say, Cesium, but this doesn't answer the question. How radioactive is the hydrogen produced when water leaks into the storage casks? I would suppose that there is also oxygen produced, and that it too may be radioactive enough to be a problem. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article
Dan , sorry, forgot to answer on some other points. Curie - for what I heard died from depression ( stopped eating). Radium - tremendous amount of paint containing Radium was produced (until 1942). It was widely used on dials, signs and such. How many people died from exposure to them? Alex - Original Message - From: Dan Maker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article Alex said: Dan, every element is radioactive to some degree. True. Some places, just around where we live, have a certain detectable level of radioactivity, which some say is beneficial for people. Possible. The only nasty radiation comes out when atom is being split - in reactors and bombs. False. UVA radiation (from the sun) has been linked to skin cancer. Madam Curie died from cancer caused, in part, from the radiation she recieved from the minerals she was studying, not from a nuclear reactor. Then there's Radon gas, which is radioactive and has been linked to lung cancer. In this particular case, Plutonium has a half -life of 24,000 years which indicates that radioactivity of it is very moderate. Yes, Plutonium, having a long half life, is less radioactive than say, Cesium, but this doesn't answer the question. How radioactive is the hydrogen produced when water leaks into the storage casks? I would suppose that there is also oxygen produced, and that it too may be radioactive enough to be a problem. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article
Dan, I personally think that risk of radiation is greatly overrated, up to the point of paranoia, at the same time risk of exposure to polluted air, chemicals, bad food is greatly underrated. Radiation will kill, for sure, if the exposure is great - like at nuclear explosion or other man made event, but at natural conditions its quite safe and can be easily shielded from. I don't like nuclear reactors - they are sidekicks of the bomb, and mainly serve as producers of weapon-grade materials. They emit lots of radiation and work, by definition, right on the edge of chain reaction, which makes them very expensive to control and protect from. On the other hand, nuclear energy can be used very safely and with very small shielding. They can be installed in every home. Devices like these are being developed by Bruce Perreault. The problem is that its very hard to get access to materials to experiment with. Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Dan Maker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article Alex said: Curie - for what I heard died from depression ( stopped eating). http://www.aip.org/history/curie/radinst3.htm The above URL indicates some sort of leukemia as the cause of her death. Other sources indicate TB. I retract my statement that her death was caused by radiation poisoning, it seems that her exposure may have contributed to poor health, but there does not seem to be any conclusive evidence that she did die from lukemia. On the other hand, I saw no evidence to support your position. Radium - tremendous amount of paint containing Radium was produced (until 1942). It was widely used on dials, signs and such. How many people died from exposure to them? From using the instruments, or from direct contact with the paint? As far as I'm aware nobody died from simply using the dials. However there is a large volume of documented evidence showing that the paint itself was quite toxic, causing or greatly contributing to a number of fatal cancers in humans. Radium Girls: Women and Industrial Health Reform, 1910-1935 by Claudia Clark http://hallhealth.com/mental_health/472.shtml Radium Dials http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr6/radiumdials.htm Radium dial painting began in 1917 but it was deadly for the dialpainters. Granted, the girls (women) that did the painting consumed rather large doses of radium, far more than most people would come in contact with. I take it you have no arguments with my statement of radiation health risks from exposure to Radon gas? Please keep in mine, I am not suggesting that these are the biggest health problems we face. In fact, the most dangerous thing most of us do each day is drive or ride on our public streets and highways; and there the greatest threat to our health is from an accident. With regard to radiation and nuclear energy, I am in favor of nuclear reactors for electrical energy and the reprocessing spent fuel rods into MOX Fuel to be used again in nuclear reactors, for the production of more electricity. Please check your facts. With proper handling, most radioactive materials can be handled safely, and many of them contribute to our modern lifestyle Wallace from The Wrong Trousers but they are still dangerous, and not just the ones that are products of nuclear reactions. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article
Bob, my humble comments are below... - Original Message - From: Bob Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article Alex wrote: Dan, I disagree with what you say. If sun radiation was linked to cancer it doesn't really mean it's causing it. sorry I can't let this go by. Wrong, wrong, wrong... nothing, plants, animals, nothing would survive on the surface of the planet without ozone filtering the short wavelength light. (sunlight just the same) Current evolutionary theory suggests that life began a few meters below the surface of the earth (under water) due to the deadly flux of sunlight, about 4 billion years ago- give or take a few hundred million. - I basically refer here to conditions on the surface of our planet, like when you look up and see clouds, blue sky, glimpse of sun, and understand that it is very well done! This is what causing cancer - chemicals which accumulate in the body. meaningless. food and water are chemicals. Sunscreens too. Basically, underlying cause is luck of healthy food and lifestyle. - To me water is just water, but chlorine and fluoride you put into it - these are chemicals... so tell me, what is health food? Broccoli? nope, it's known to contain substances which cause cancer. Vitamins? careful, there is a condition which can be deadly, overdosing on fat soluble vitamins, particularly A. - I'd like to refer you to www.soilandhealthlibrary.org. Basically health food is food which is alive. Frankly, I'm not a great believer in evolution...In my opinion man was created to coexists with other creatures, because everything should be in harmony. Once this balance is destroyed - thickness starts. On the contrary, sun = life. also too much sun or sun of the short wavelength variety mean death_ actually, it means cross-linked DNA which can lead to mutations and/or cancer. The statistics are overwhelming. More exposure to sun correlates with higher incidence of cancer. Water already contains some radioactive isotopes of Hydrogen - this is what heavy water is. well, only sort of. heavy water generally refers to deuterium oxide, which is not radioactive. Generally speaking, natural radioactivity by itself is quite safe, or may be beneficial, Phooey, Uranium miners have a much higher incidence of cancer than the general population. Any source of ionizing radiation be it alpha particles, beta particles, gamma rays all cause defects in DNA. - I think this is greatly overrated. Sorry but you are sorely in need of a short course in health physics. - I simply believe that everything natural is not harmful. Because he is kind to us. We make it harmful. Regards, Alex -- Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob -- - Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe. - Frank Zappa --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Water Radiolysis
Here something about generating hydrogen from water. Alex http://www.nuenergy.org/radiolysis.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: Control live television Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis
At some beaches radioactivity level may be very high... Are you a fan of sunbathing? Alex - Original Message - From: Brent S [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis I will stick to using a battery charger to make hydrogen. I am not a fan of anything radioactive. Brent From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:21:14 -0400 Here something about generating hydrogen from water. Alex http://www.nuenergy.org/radiolysis.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis
Exactly! Also some of the wastes are perfect betta emitters - almost ready batteries. But it is practically impossible to get them. Alex - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis On Monday, September 22, 2003, at 07:43 AM, Brent S wrote: I will stick to using a battery charger to make hydrogen. I am not a fan of anything radioactive. Could be an interesting way to take advantage of all those radioactive wastes. Alpha particles are pretty benign once they get absorbed by something (like water). Endless H2 for free..-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EVs destined for the crusher
Hi, Esbuck! It wasn't me who was writing this, but nevertheless I'm very interested in your concept. Have you done any calcs on how much air would be needed to store and at what pressure say for 100 kms of distance ? Alex - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] EVs destined for the crusher In a message dated 9/15/2003 9:12:40 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The options seem to still be either pony up the cash to buy something from one of the small manufacturers, or convert something yourself. Maybe convert something yourself, but with the best batteries that's expensive. If you want a hybrid vehicle and want to convert something yourself, I'll be happy to work with you concerning using compressed air, instead of batteries. The IC engine compresses air (cooled with water). Probably one of the cylinders of the engine can be used as a pump (eg. it runs on three cylinders and pumps with the fourth) The warm, wet compressed air will store energy at least as efficiently as batteries. If you only want to augment the IC engine, the pump cylinder(s) can be used as an expander (air motor) for extra torque. More elegant would be a separate air motor (same as a steam engine) for driving the wheels. Under IC power, the pump-motor replaces the transmission, giving smooth, infinitely variable power transmission. If you like, you can turn off the IC engine entirely and run on stored air, 100 per cent pollution free. Apart from the high efficiency, this arrangement beats batteries on several counts. 1. There are no costly, toxic materials in batteries which need to be recycled every two years, an environmental problem. (And if one tried to build a million battery cars, world metal markets would be highly disrupted) The system should last as long as the rest of the car. 2. It's actually safer than electric energy storage. 3. (A biggie) The available power-to-weight ratio is very high, whereas batteries are limited to a few hundred watts per kilo of battery, if you don't want to damage things. An air-hybrid car could win drag races or hill climbs. 4. It's probably less costly. The pump-motor can be modified auto components, and storage tanks are cheap, compared with batteries. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EVs destined for the crusher
Ok, I started o understand your concept - mainly you are talking about a hybrid - to store energy during breaking, downhills and release it later. Looks sound and simple, by why nobody is using it? Alex - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] EVs destined for the crusher In a message dated 9/15/2003 9:12:40 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The options seem to still be either pony up the cash to buy something from one of the small manufacturers, or convert something yourself. Maybe convert something yourself, but with the best batteries that's expensive. If you want a hybrid vehicle and want to convert something yourself, I'll be happy to work with you concerning using compressed air, instead of batteries. The IC engine compresses air (cooled with water). Probably one of the cylinders of the engine can be used as a pump (eg. it runs on three cylinders and pumps with the fourth) The warm, wet compressed air will store energy at least as efficiently as batteries. If you only want to augment the IC engine, the pump cylinder(s) can be used as an expander (air motor) for extra torque. More elegant would be a separate air motor (same as a steam engine) for driving the wheels. Under IC power, the pump-motor replaces the transmission, giving smooth, infinitely variable power transmission. If you like, you can turn off the IC engine entirely and run on stored air, 100 per cent pollution free. Apart from the high efficiency, this arrangement beats batteries on several counts. 1. There are no costly, toxic materials in batteries which need to be recycled every two years, an environmental problem. (And if one tried to build a million battery cars, world metal markets would be highly disrupted) The system should last as long as the rest of the car. 2. It's actually safer than electric energy storage. 3. (A biggie) The available power-to-weight ratio is very high, whereas batteries are limited to a few hundred watts per kilo of battery, if you don't want to damage things. An air-hybrid car could win drag races or hill climbs. 4. It's probably less costly. The pump-motor can be modified auto components, and storage tanks are cheap, compared with batteries. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EVs destined for the crusher
Actually, I think that Prius approach - basically replacing starter with a full-blown electrical motor is a most feasible one. Then ethanol or biodiesel can be used as a fuel. Alex - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 10:41 PM Subject: [biofuel] EVs destined for the crusher On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:31:34 -0400, you wrote: murdoch wrote: Keith: But I do know that there are some willing buyers and leasors who want highway capable EVs, and that Toyota has firmly participated in the unanimous major-manufacturer industry-wide wall to not make them available to anyone anywhere ever. I must say I do continue to find it astonishing that the major car manufacturers continue to completely snub this small but growing segment of the market. The options seem to still be either pony up the cash to buy something from one of the small manufacturers, or convert something yourself. Maybe convert something yourself, but with the best batteries that's expensive. As to these small manufacturers of affordable highway capable street-legal EVs, I'd like to know the name of one or two. Years ago someone told me about a company in California that had quietly been doing it for a respectable amount of time, but I can't recall. Noel Adams's page is a resource I recommend to folks who want to try to buy an ev: www.evfinder.com but I'm not sure of a specific company that presently makes affordable ones. I expect this kind of behavior from the Big Three, but not from the Japanese manufacturers. But then the Big Three own Big Chunks of most of the Japanese manufacturers. I guess, though Im not sure sure that's the reason. When Toyota completely blew off demand for the RAV4 EV, and shut down any attempt to order more, we realized (if we didn't already) that there simply wasn't much difference between the manufacturers. Some, maybe. But not enough to say unequivocally GM: Bad. Toyota: Good. And the Big Three always seem to want to squash anything that is truly revolutionary. That still doesn't explain Honda's actions, as Honda isn't owned by anyone except Honda. I cannot name you a single Auto company on Earth that has been responsive to demand for affordable highway capable Grid-chargeables. I agree with you... I have tended to want to believe in some aspect of better-ness in Honda or Toyota, and we can look at some of their hybrids and such. But they have not been responsive to demand that we (activists) claim exists for grid-chargeable affordable highway-capable vehicles. So, I've stopped seeing the Japanese as particularly better or worse on the matter of EVs. Dumb. And destructive. One of the things on my mind is the few people I've talked to, or met, who not only implemented ownership of one of those better EVs, but also installed solar to power it. *That* is a combination that kicks ass, for my money, it *works*, and it gets rid of a whole bunch of questions and nonsense. This home-electricity-generation-to-vehicle combination is one that the oil companies fear, IMO. You could make the argument that they have managed to minimize it, by keeping virtually all of the good EVs off the road, everywhere, (not to mention any influence they might hold as to the rate of home installation of solar). But how, exactly, have they found a leverage point to get the auto companies' cooperation? I'm not precisely sure, though I've offered at least one direction with my post on ECD. I'd entertain the opposite hypothesis, that this is all just a natural capitalistic decision of the auto companies that is entirely responsive to market conditions, but I've seen enough (for me) evidence to the contrary, so it's hard for me to entertain that hypothesis. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http
Re: [biofuel] EVs destined for the crusher
The problem with EV is that lots of electricity is being lost between Niagara and the house. The whole idea is to produce energy locally to save on unnecessary losses, and here where ethanol and biodiesel have a greatest appeal to me. This also makes people to be very independent from the utilities. Alex - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] EVs destined for the crusher On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:56:22 -0400, you wrote: Actually, I think that Prius approach - basically replacing starter with a full-blown electrical motor is a most feasible one. Then ethanol or biodiesel can be used as a fuel. Alex I like the Prius very much. Further, I do not pretend to be able to say what is the best alt-fuel vehicle. It's fine by me if someone wants to say that a biodiesel, or some other alt-fuel approach, is better than an EV. I may agree on some points. What bugs me is the non-businesslike way the auto companies are handling production of EVs and customer demand for EVs. This unbelievable crushing of good vehicles, the turning-away from demand despite the existence of waiting lists (albeit modest-sized ones), the confiscation of leased vehicles when the lease is up despite generous offers of cash by leasors who want to keep the cars, ... something is wrong with the system, in my view. So, I'm trying to discern what's wrong with the system. The what is a good car question is, to me, somewhat separate. But I absolutely agree, the Prius is a fine high-mileage innovative car, a good first and second effort, and now they are even adding EV-only mode to the newest ones, something that was a bit unexpected. The EV-only mode will only operate reportedly for a few meters (or hundreds of meters?) but is a start. Next you'd need grid-chargeability and a massively expanded battery pack to make any sort of real grid-chargeable hybrid. But, sure, kudos do go to Toyota for this car. And criticism goes to Toyota for their destruction of RAV4 EVs (at least we've heard they're crushing EVs or planning to from one or two people), and their blowing-off of demand for RAV4 EVs. If they get kudos for doing something right, they still get criticism for their needless blowing-off of some customers. Doesn't Toyota have some sort of saying or corporate statement about the importance of Customer Satisfaction? I believe they say that Customer Satisfaction Is Our Highest Priority. I've spoken to a small handful of people who are *not* satisfied Toyota customers. Toyota has managed to keep this number small because only a small handful (a few hundred or thousand) have ever owned or leased a RAV4 EV, or considered it. They were only offered to the general public at about 25 dealers in maybe one state. They're often satisfied with the car, if they manage to get one, but they're not very satisfied that it's being discontinued, or that other folks, who want them, can't get them, or that they tried but couldn't get one because they sold out. In particular, if they were wait-listed, they're not too happy to hear that Toyota refuses to make more and might be crushing good ones that come off-lease from other customers, instead of re-selling or leasing them to those who are on wait-lists. The other day one or two new ones came up for sale unexpectedly in the LA area. At a little more than $30k (after adjusting downward from $42.5k or so using various incentives) they're not cheap, but these vehicles for which Toyota seems to claim there is insufficient demand to warrant further production were gone within a day or two. The dealer was able to go through his waiting list and find homes for them pretty easily. They're reportedly the last that will ever come up at the retail level, unless something changes. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol
Ethan, thank you very much! Very nice to know somebody near by! I will contact you off list - I'm actually near by, in R.H. Alex - Original Message - From: Ethan Vos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 7:35 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] methanol I'm in Newmarket, just north of the big smoke. For small batches just use methyl hydrate. It's in the paint section at Canadian Tire. Once you're into the serious stage, call Univar for drums. You need to buy a minimum of 2. Email me off the list of you want a contact name and number. They won't deliver to a residential address though. Ethan -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 3:12 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] methanol Just want to experiment in making my first batch - getting ready for getting self-sufficient once I get my Rabbit! I'm in Toronto area. Where are you? Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Ethan Vos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] methanol What quantities do you need? Where in Ontario? Ethan -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 11:13 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] methanol Where do I buy methanol in Ontario ? Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol
Great, will try Home Hardware! People in Can. Tire were not very helpful. Alex - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 3:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] methanol In small quantities, try Canadian Tire (look for methyl hydrate in paint section). I have heard you can find it cheaper at Home Hardware stores, but I have not confirmed this in person. For larger quantities (thousands of litres per month), contact Recochem. I have also heard that a company in Saskatchewan(?), may provide intermediate quantities. Methanex? Darryl McMahon Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked: Where do I buy methanol in Ontario ? Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol
Just want to experiment in making my first batch - getting ready for getting self-sufficient once I get my Rabbit! I'm in Toronto area. Where are you? Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Ethan Vos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] methanol What quantities do you need? Where in Ontario? Ethan -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 11:13 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] methanol Where do I buy methanol in Ontario ? Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] profitability
Thank you, folks, greatly appreciate your encouragement! The timing could never be better since I'm in a process of looking for a replacement for my Civic, and the only choice I have now is to get a Diesel! Mind you, Civic is actually quite good on gas (even at 85c/l here in Toronto) - but nothing can beat magic word FREE! Yes, I want to make a trial batch - I actually bought Joshua Tickel book and all family is reading through it! But I'm no chemist, so should I may be jump to a fool-proof method instead of scratching my head when it doesn't come out? I'm also looking at ethanol options as well - but it requires serious car mods... Believe it or not, the actual thought of looking for an alternative fuel was caused by the recent blackout when cars were abandoned on streets because gas pumps were dead! I think in a coming times everybody has to try to be self-sufficient! Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 2:08 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] profitability Alex, Waste crank case oil and waste veg oil are not interchangeable. Recycle the motor oil. Make biodiesel out of WVO. It doesn't take much equipment to make biodiesel. And if you wish to increase the volume of production all you have to do is magnify the size of the equipment that you would use on a desk top scale. I would suggest that you give a small batch a go...the sooner the better...to get familiar with what is involved. The pages at www.journeytoforever.org can walk you through almost anything and there's plenty of support to be had on list. From there it's onward and upward. Todd Swearingen Good grief, Todd - shouldn't that be Up, up and away!??? Nothing'll ever be the same again, no wonder America's such a mess, mumble mumble... Nice summary on costs etc, thanks. Alex, Todd's costings are widely confirmed in practice, but don't let all those as-yet-unearned s make you dizzy, eh? Small-scale biodiesel's a good business venture, but it's also a new business, with lots of barriers and obstacles in its path. There's more to it than just the costings. Don't be discouraged either - best make a start first, as Todd said: make a small batch. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Best Keith - Original Message - From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] profitability Hi, Todd! thank you very much for a comprehensive reply, describing all the complexity of the marketplace. I feel like my heart and soil are magnetized by the concept and many people I discussed it with are really excited - there is really nothing wrong with the concept of getting something free and selling it at 50 c a liter. I can see real possibility of making deals with some truckers, who would gladly use bio product, if the price is right. BTW, my mechanic asked if its possible to use wasted engine oil for this - would be great! My main concern is - how easy it is to start a real manufacturing process, once supply of WVO is secured? Where to get an equipment? It would be nice to have people around who could provide support, to help resolve all kinds of problems which could come up. Recently I was talking to a farmer and made him really happy explaining that he can grow sunflowers to make his tractors go on the cheap. Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] profitability Alex, That's a big yes. As to why? WVO in the US is essentially already dedicated to the animal feed and oleo-chemical industries. The renderers already have an infrastructure dedicated to those end uses. Their margins are attractive. Their infrastructure is essentially paid for. By and large it makes little to no sense to most of them to create an entirely new infrastructure to manufacture biodiesel - at least not as long as the price of fossil diesel remains relatively low. That is one of the biggest reasons as to why the push for biodiesel has come from the agricultural sector - that and the fact that ag had a 3 billion gallon glut of aging oil not too long ago. Value added was and is their most advantageous out. Invariably there are negatives and positives to big ag's direction of pursuit of biodiesel. On the positive: 1) They can diminish their over supply of oil, stabilizing and improving oilseed pricing. 2) There is an inevitable overlap into the WVO market as non-farmers become interested. This leads to reduced WVO supplies to animal feed and oleo-chemical markets, in turn
Re: [biofuel] profitability
Ok! Keith, you actually have a great web site - will take a lot of time read it all! Your library is great too - very similar to soil and health library which I read quite diligently. Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] profitability Hello Alex Thank you, folks, greatly appreciate your encouragement! The timing could never be better since I'm in a process of looking for a replacement for my Civic, and the only choice I have now is to get a Diesel! Mind you, Civic is actually quite good on gas (even at 85c/l here in Toronto) - but nothing can beat magic word FREE! Well, it's not free. Yes, I want to make a trial batch - I actually bought Joshua Tickel book and all family is reading through it! But I'm no chemist, so should I may be jump to a fool-proof method instead of scratching my head when it doesn't come out? All due respect, as it certainly served its purpose at the time, but that book is now 4-5 years out of date, and it shows. There's been a LOT of development since then. You're much better off with the information available online. Though I say it myself, I'm not at all the only one, nor even the first to say it to you - spend a bit more time at Journey to Forever's biodiesel resources. Reason I say it is that if you'd spent more time there already you wouldn't be proposing to jump straight into the two-stage processes: The single-stage base method is the place to start. The two-stage processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. -- From Which method to use? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#which Virtually all experienced users say that, many have said so on this list. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start (Told you that before...) I'm also looking at ethanol options as well - but it requires serious car mods... Not so serious, though you may have a corrosion problem eventually. See: Ethanol and your car http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#ethanolcar Believe it or not, the actual thought of looking for an alternative fuel was caused by the recent blackout when cars were abandoned on streets because gas pumps were dead! I think in a coming times everybody has to try to be self-sufficient! And use less, and use it more efficiently. Best Keith Regards, Alex snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] profitability
Yes, soil is life - it took me 48 years to figure it out! Once I started a garden in my backyard - nothing would grow, though I spent lots of money on fertilizers. Finally I invited my friend (he was born on the farm) he looked and said - your soil is dead. Basically , as he explained , it requires worms to grow anything - now, few years later, I got lots of them. Surprisingly, the same applies to the body - to be alive it requires lots of enzymes and bacteria in it. Its a well hidden knowledge... I was very surprised after browsing soil and health library, that all of it was in the long forgotten books... Hopefully one day I will move to the farm and drive my tractor by the fuel grown on my field! Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] profitability Hi Alex Ok! Keith, you actually have a great web site Why thankyou! - will take a lot of time read it all! It keeps growing, somehow. Not at all finished yet, still lacking several whole sections. No time! Your library is great too - very similar to soil and health library which I read quite diligently. We have two online libraries, the Biofuels Library and the Small Farms Library. Steve Solomon's Soil and Health Library and our Small Farms Library are similar but different. Steve and JtF have collaborated quite a lot (you'll see where we credit each other). Actually the Small Farms Library is still in its infancy - two-thirds of our agriculture and development library (hard-copy, that is) was at an associated project in Australia for the last 10 years, we only got it back again a few months ago. Hundreds of great books, including many out-of-print classics available nowhere, online or off, stuff that's never been replaced and is at least as relevant now as when it was written. But scanning books takes time, it'll take us years. We'll get there. We're also planning a reading room, or some such - articles rather than whole books, wide-ranging but organized. Should be useful, and much less work than scanning books. You're interested in the soil? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Biofuels Library http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html Small Farms Library http://www.soilandhealth.org/ Soil and Health Library Best wishes Keith Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] profitability Hello Alex Thank you, folks, greatly appreciate your encouragement! The timing could never be better since I'm in a process of looking for a replacement for my Civic, and the only choice I have now is to get a Diesel! Mind you, Civic is actually quite good on gas (even at 85c/l here in Toronto) - but nothing can beat magic word FREE! Well, it's not free. Yes, I want to make a trial batch - I actually bought Joshua Tickel book and all family is reading through it! But I'm no chemist, so should I may be jump to a fool-proof method instead of scratching my head when it doesn't come out? All due respect, as it certainly served its purpose at the time, but that book is now 4-5 years out of date, and it shows. There's been a LOT of development since then. You're much better off with the information available online. Though I say it myself, I'm not at all the only one, nor even the first to say it to you - spend a bit more time at Journey to Forever's biodiesel resources. Reason I say it is that if you'd spent more time there already you wouldn't be proposing to jump straight into the two-stage processes: The single-stage base method is the place to start. The two-stage processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. -- From Which method to use? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#which Virtually all experienced users say that, many have said so on this list. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start (Told you that before...) I'm also looking at ethanol options as well - but it requires serious car mods... Not so serious, though you may have a corrosion problem eventually. See: Ethanol and your car http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#ethanolcar Believe it or not, the actual thought of looking for an alternative fuel was caused by the recent blackout when cars were abandoned on streets because gas pumps were dead! I think in a coming times everybody has to try to be self-sufficient! And use less, and use it more efficiently. Best Keith Regards, Alex snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list
