Re: [biofuel] Need some advice please

[kline]

> Pathtofreedom,
Consider a Ford E-250 or E350 Club Wagon with t he old 6.9 diesel.  It
won't set any speed records, but it is an indirect injected engine which
makes it ideal for hombrewed biofuels or SVO/WVO conversion.  Some of
these vans are of the 12 or more passenger variety.  With the right gears,
they can get 15-20 mpg if ya take it easy.  good luck
>
> Before you buy an auto, you would serve yourself well to make some
> biodiesel in order to get familiar enough with it to discern whether or
> not you want to go that route.
>
> My guess is that if you're already organic and collecting scraps for
> compost that you'll take to it like a frog to water (French frog,
> American, whatever...).
>
> There is one small area that you need to clarify in your own mind at the
> moment though - that being the difference between vegetable oil
> conversion kits and biodiesel.
>
> If you're on the go 24/7/365 and have no desire to get under the hood
> and start tinkering mechanically, you may wish to go with biodiesel.
> It's no more difficult to produce than it is to brew beer or can your
> own veggies or plant your own garden. On the down side, you have to take
> time out to "brew" the fuel.
>
> If you have mechanical inclinations, the veg oil conversion could be
> your cup of tea. A tidy investment up front and some mechanical
> adaptation and you can forego having to brew anything.
>
> You may wish to contact the Ed Beggs and Steve Spences of the world (or
> at least of the North American continent) for specs as to how the veg
> oil conversions respond in colder climes.
>
> In either event, neither venues are exceptionally difficult. Both have
> their idiosyncrisies.
>
> But as said above, it sounds as if you'd take to either quite easily.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "pathtofreedom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 11:11 AM
> Subject: [biofuel] Need some advice please
>
>
>> Hi, all!
>>
>> I'm a newbie here and have been lurking for a couple days, reading
>> posts.  My family and I are interested in converting to biodiesel. But
>> before we can do that we'll have to purchase a diesel car.
>>
>> We have a large family and go on lots of camping trips, so a small car
>> like a Mercedes is out of the question - even though I have read that
>> they are the best to convert.Anyhow, we are looking at
>> something more like a diesel Suburban.  How different is it to
>> convert a large vehicle like a Suburban than, say a Mercedes?  Will a
>> GreaseCar kit suffice?
>>
>> Have any of you had experience with (www.elsbett.com)?  Or is there
>> any kit you'd recommend?
>>
>> We currently own a 74 VW camper van and have a fondness for VW
>> vans.  Are there any VW vans that run on diesel?  While browsing
>> through websites, I've only seen converted Jetta' Passats, Beetle,
>> Rabbit and Mercedes - is there such a thing as a diesel VW van?
>>
>> We are in a perfect/ideal situation, we deliver organic produce to
>> restaurants practically every day.  We already pick up kitchen
>> scraps for our worms, rabbits, ducks and chickens so we figured why
>> not add pickups of veggie oil to fuel our car?
>>
>> I've been reading (and printing) a lot from the many internet sites
>> (including JTF - great site BTW!)
>>
>> Sorry if I haven't explained myself well and for these rambling
>> questions - just learning the lingo!  ;-)
>>
>> Thanks for any assistance - I'm a bit new at this so any info will be
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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>> http://archive.nnytech.net/
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>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Fw: The ethanol markcet

[kline]

> Pieter,
How about ethyl ester biodiesel?  I'm sure many people would be
interested, since ethanol is both safer and more environmentally friendly
than methanol.  Where do you live?
> Can you keep me informed about making ethanol out of cellulose ?
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Pieter Koole
> Netherlands.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "alon s." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 6:43 PM
> Subject: [biofuel] Fw: The ethanol markcet
>
>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: alon s.
>> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 11:09 PM
>> Subject: Fw: The ethanol markcet
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: alon s.
>> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 2:48 PM
>> Subject: The ethanol markcet
>>
>>
>> Hello groop
>> I am thinking about building a stiller and producing ethanol. since I
>> can
> not sell it as a gasolin fuel due to the fact that som modification has
> to be doun to the car. I am looking for a claient that will wont to by
> ethanol .
>>  does anybody have an Idear for a markcet for ethanol ,exepte for
>> viacel
> fuel?
>> In adition I'm looking for information on methan production  plans
> instruction and so on .
>> So far I visited meny web sights but incunterd only dule metirial,
>> exept
> ,from on sight with minimal instruction but with some pictures explaning
> how to build a small digdesture
> http://biorealis.com/digester/construction.html
>> Hope you can recommand on some usfull information
>> yours dearly alon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
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Re: [biofuel] IDI vs. DI

[kline]

> Well, then, I got it backwards. So if Mercedes are IDI, what are some
> other examples of IDI diesels available in the US? Thanks.
>
> Maud
> St. Louis, MO
>
>>Maud Essen wrote:
>>>  I'm reading up on the preference for IDI vs. DI diesels for burning
>>> WVO. If Mercedes diesels are DI, what are some examples of IDI
>>> diesels? Thanks.
>>
>>Well, Mercedes, actually.  Most of them are IDI.
>>
>>As a general rule of thumb, if something in the vehicle's information
>> doesn't say "Direct Injection" then it is almost certainly indirect
>> injection.
>>
>>
>>AP
>>Maud,
ALmoll of todays diesel engines ar DIs, I can't say about the mercedes
benz.  I will say that the old VW diesels were IDIs, and so were the pre
94 IH/Ford can't say that I know when GM and Dodge switced to computerized
DI or if the Dodge/Cummins engines were ever IDI.  I just purchase a 6.9L
IH IDI V8 in an 86 F250 p/u.  I will let you all know how I like it after
a few months, hope to be running it on biodiesel as soon as I can find a
reliable source or make something I know won't damage it.
>>
>>
>>
>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>>Biofuels list archives:
>>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>>
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>
>
> --
> Maud Essen
> Essential Services
> 4163 W. Pine Blvd.
> St. Louis, MO   63108-2801
>
> 314-531-8098 (voice)
> 775-593-6428 (fax)
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] I need to buy some biodiesl(not make)for my car ?????

[kline]

>
> I live in Beaverton/Hillsboro, Oregon area and need to buy fuel
> for my 1981 datsun 810 diesel. Info as to where I can purchase
> biodiesel or any other related information would be happily received.
>
>   Thank You, Tammus.
>
>
> Go to the national biodiesel distributors boar- www.biodiesel.org- and
click on the link for buying biodiesel.  That will be a good start. 
Good luck, JD
>
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[biofuel] Testing of biodiesel

[kline]

Is there any lab that will test a sample of hombrewed bioD to see if it
meets specs?  I appreciate it
J.D.




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Re: [biofuel] pending senate bill to provide biodiesel fuel credit

[kline]

> FYI -
> They favor virgin oil because its use favors farmers who grow soybeans,
peanuts, and other good feedstock crops.  I agree, though, both types of
biodiesel should have the credit.  Hope it passes.
J.D.
> There is a bill sponsored by Senator Charles Grassley,
> who chairs the Senate Finance Committee, to lessen and
> amend the excise taxes and to increase the fuel
> credits for biofuels (alcohol and biodiesel are
> mentioned specifically).  The bill is called the
> Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit VEETC Act of
> 2003.
>
> The details are available either through
> www.thomas.gov or www.senate.gov.
>
> The bill amends the IRS Code of 1986, specifically
> Subpart D of part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1
> (whew!).  Basically, the bill provides (among other
> things) a credit for biodiesel used as fuel of $.50
> for biodiesel made from any feedstock, and $1.00 for
> biodiesel made solely from virgin oils.  This credit
> is remitted at the pump.
>
> Now, I am delighted that this will mean an immediate
> $1.00 per gallon drop in the cost of the World Energy
> biodiesel I currently purchase in Seattle (right
> Graham?).
>
> However, I encourage those interested to write the
> members of this committee, as well as their own
> legislators (where the two do not coincide) asking
> them to grant the $1.00 credit for both types of
> biodiesel.
>
> Why should biodiesel from WVO be put at a competitive
> disadvantage?
>
> regards to all,
>
> thor skov
>
> __
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Re: [biofuel] Scarcity of Diesels Available For Purchase?

[kline]

> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:00:08 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>Please don't get me wrong, but, I don't think that $7000, is an
>> inexpensive amount to pay for a vehicle.  It is a heck of a lot, I was
>> unemployed for 2 years when I got it, for that matter I'm still
>> unemployed.  That $7000 vehicle is the most expensive purchase ( other
>> than the house the wife and I own ) that I have ever made, up until
>> this purchase, the most expensive I ever bought was $3500 ).
>
> You made what I thought was a good point, even if it partly disagreed
> with mine.  It was in part, unless I misinterpret, that if one tries
> hard one can find a used diesel vehicle to fit one's budget (whatever
> budget that may be).
>
> And although I do agree that determination and perspicacity can go a
> long way toward finding that car of one's desires, and within one's
> budget, I was putting an idea out there that I've recently taken to
> thinking about and so I will flesh it out a bit better where I was
> coming from.
> Diesels go at a premium becuase if well cared for, the will last two to
three times longer or more than a gasser, diesel is cheaper than gas in
many locales, and there are fewer to start off with than gasoline.  A
buddy of mine wrote an article about diesels and cited that only one
quarter of one percent of new passenger vehicles are diesel.  In
addition, old diesels, which is what most biofuels enthusiasts are into
are relatively easy to work on.  Except for major engine repair, they
require nothing that the weekend warrior cannot do in his garage or on
her driveway.  Additionally the people who buy diesels tend to get
attached to them, so it seems like what is offered for sale is mostly
crap.  I ran into this when I purchased a diesel F-250 p/u.  Most of the
trucks I looked at were tired, and had major mechanical and or cosmetic
issues.  I was blessed and finally found a good one but had to be
patient, and in the end go across state lines.  The key is to be
patient.  Also looking on diesel enthusiast forums is helpful.  Private
owners tend to have better and cheaper vehicles than do dealers.  I
stuck it out cause I love diesels and want to get into renewable
energies, and wasn't excited about feeding a gas guzzling gasoline V-8
that might get 8-10 mpg
> When it comes to Major-Manufacturer Production Highway-Capable Battery
> EVs, they've been made not only scarce, but virtually non-existent. Only
> Toyota (maybe one or two others?) really made them for sale, and not
> just for lease, and there were a million-and-one impediments to leasing
> or buying any of the major-manufacturer efforts.  Those
> vehicles that have come off-lease have been taken back from their
> leasors, often forcibly (in that the leasors didn't want to give them up
> and sometimes offered to pay mucho dinero for them).
>
> To get to the point, if electricity is an alt-fuel, then the means to
> utilize this alt-fuel have not been there except if one was determined
> and-or wealthy well-beyond the determination or wealth exhibited by most
> of us in spending hours searching through the papers for a Used Vehicle.
>
> So, even though I don't know as much about biodiesel or the vehicles
> that use it, I did notice, in looking for a used diesel recently, that
> there didn't seem to be that many.  My project was cut much short by
> circumstances which led me to make a very quick decision, and I do think
> it will be possible for me to get one in the future when I have more
> time.
>
> It is not as "black and white" a matter as with EVs.  At the same
> time, I sort of wondered if we might give consideration to the matter
> without dismissing it too easily.  Even though, with determination and
> know-how, one can purchase and use a diesel with biodiesel in the
> States, is it possible that on a macro-level, the vehicles are scarcer
> and more expensive than they need to be, and that this is a de facto
> partial impediment to a quicker broader adoption of the alt-fuel in
> question?  Sure, one could easily come up with the many excellent
> explanations that we've all read (the cleaner fuel hasn't been there,
> the consumer demand hasn't been there, etc.) but I'm used to seeing
> these reasons-excuses-whatever with respect to EVs, and I'm used to
> discovering that sometimes they're not the entire story, so that's part
> of why I'm putting this out there.
>
> It would be interesting to figure out, just for one thing, if a used VW
> diesel goes for a premium, per mile, than a comparable gasoline vehicle.
>  Perhaps that would be an indication of underground demand for the
> diesel "feature"?
>
> With respect to the many excellent points that you and others have made
> on these topics
>
> MM
>
>
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> Your u

Re: [biofuel] Re: Scarcity of Diesels Available For Purchase?

[kline]

> 240D's are painfully slow, but very good cars. Fine on the hiway, and if
> it's in good shape, $500 is a good price. I'd pay to have a Mercedes
> mechanic check it out.
>
> Craig
>
> Grahams wrote:
>
>>  At 10:54 PM 9/3/2003 +, you wrote:
>> >Scarcity of Diesels Available For Purchase?
>>
>> I was perusing the trader paper tonight. What do you all think?
>> Mercedes
>> Benz 1979 240D Runs, inspected, $500.
>> Should I check it out? Or is it too old to consider?
>> What am I looking for?
>> Caroline
>>
>>  I don't know about the Mercedes in particular, but go look at it, and
start it up.  It should light off as soon as the glow plug light goes
off.  If it doesn't that may not mean its a bad vehicle, but it could
mean that the engine is tired, low compression=on its last legs.  It
could also be the glow plugs, bad batteries, weak starter or bad inj.
pump.  Take off the engine oil filler cap, and look for smoke rising
out of the filler.  This is called blowby.  Its caused by worn valves
or rings allowing crankcase oil to leak into the combustion chambers
and be burned.  A little may be OK, again, I don't know much about the
Mercedes diesel, but at least on the old International Harvester IDIs
some is permissible due to a high compression ratio.  But if its
boiling out of there like a kettle, that means trouble.  Also, look at
the exhaust pipe.  If there is any blue smoke, you are burning oil,
and the engine has issues.  A little black smoke or white smoke is OK=
fuel system issues, usually can be ignored or cheaply fixed.  Finally
check the coolant condition in the radiator, should be clean and
green.  On the other hand for $500, if it starts right, and runs good,
you might just buy it.  Even if the engine is tired you might get some
life out of it, and it might be in excellent shape. If you want to be
sure, get a certified mechanic who works on diesels to check it for
you.  Let us know what you do.  Good luck!  I'm sure you'll find a
good one!
J.D.
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Re: [biofuel] 2003 Diesel Engine Emissions Reduction Conference

[kline]

>  From DieselNet:
>
> 2003 Diesel Engine Emissions Reduction Conference
>
> The 9th Diesel Engine Emissions Reduction Conference (DEER) organized
> by the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) office of Energy Efficiency
> and Renewable Energy (EERE) and chaired by John Fairbanks was held on
> 24-28 August in Newport, Rhode Island. This conference has become the
> most prominent forum to discuss clean diesel technologies developed  for
> meeting the U.S. heavy duty 2007/2010 standards, as well as the  Tier
> 2/LEV II light-duty standards. With increasing number of
> delegates from Europe and the Far East, the DEER meeting is also
> becoming a recognized international forum on clean diesel
> technologies.
>
> The Conference opened with a plenary session which, for the first  time,
> was dominated by issues of energy efficiency, depletion of
> fossil fuel resources, and carbon emissions/global warming. The
> transportation sector was identified as the fastest growing consumer  of
> energy, especially in developing countries. Even with progress in  fuel
> economy, carbon emissions from transportation are estimated to  triple
> in the 21st century (C. Geffen, PNNL). Faced with the looming  global
> energy crisis and climate change, the USA does not yet have a  long term
> fuel and energy strategy. Programs, such as the GCEP by the  Stanford
> University, are only beginning to research future energy  options (C.
> Edwards, Stanford U., http://gcep.stanford.edu/).
> Speakers did not sound overly optimistic about the hydrogen fuel
> path; the H2 deployment in transportation is likely decades away,  there
> are concerns about high cost, and carbon emissions may or may  not be
> controlled, depending on the source of hydrogen. Several
> speakers identified diesel engines as the most easily available
> technology for increased fuel efficiency. The CO2 emission reduction
> potential by dieselization of light-duty vehicle fleet was estimated  at
> 11-23%. However, no methods to stimulate the increase in
> light-duty diesel penetration in the USA were suggested.
>
> Oil sands from Canada and other areas in the world were identified as
> an energy resource of increasing importance. James Eberhardt of the  DOE
> (who last year made a strong statement about the unsuitability of
> hydrogen fuel for heavy-duty vehicles) made an interesting link
> between oil sand utilization and hydrogen economy. Production of
> synthetic crude from oil sand bitumens and removal of sulfur requires
> quantities of hydrogen. Thus, increased syncrude production would
> create a market driver for the production of H2 providing the
> necessary production capacity and transition route towards hydrogen
> fuels.
>
> By far the most common topic throughout the conference was diesel
> emission control targeting the light-duty EPA Tier 2 Bin 5 emission
> level and the heavy-duty 2007/2010 limits. The overall picture is
> becoming clearer in light-duty vehicles, where the technology of
> choice is NOx adsorbers coupled with diesel particulate filters.
> Promising systems were shown with overall fuel economy penalty on the
> order of 5% and the total catalyst/DPF volume of about 3 times the
> engine displacement (D. Tomazic, FEV), which represent a significant
> step forward compared to the previous year. With further fuel economy
> optimization and emission durability demonstration, these systems  will
> likely become technically viable. However, the high system cost,  in
> part due to the high precious metal loadings used for the DPF and  NOx
> adsorber system, may present a significant barrier in
> commercializing light-duty diesels in the U.S. (J. Stang, Cummins).  It
> is certain that the price difference between diesel and gasoline
> vehicle versions will increase due to the complex diesel emission
> aftertreatment systems.
>
> The NOx adsorber technology is much less mature when applied to
> heavy- duty engines, as apparent by high catalyst volumes and high  fuel
> economy penalties. For instance, a prototype system on a 15 L  Cummins
> ISX engine utilized a total of 118 liter of catalyst (7.9  times engine
> displacement) in a "single leg" configuration (M. May,  Ricardo). The
> system caused a 7% fuel economy penalty excluding the  pressure drop
> effect (which was reported at 200 mbar). This fuel
> economy penalty could have been reduced by using the "dual leg"
> configuration at the expense of even larger total catalyst volume.
>
> Considering today's state-of-the-art in NOx adsorbers, this
> technology is not likely to be used by manufacturers to comply with  the
> US2007 emission standards on heavy-duty engines. Alternative
> technologies hinted to at the Conference include high-rate EGR,
> urea-SCR, as well as oxygen depletion membranes. The latter,
> mentioned by Caterpillar (D. Milam), may involve the use of nitrogen
> enriched charge air to control NOx (in a way similar to the EGR) and
> late-cycle injection of oxygen enriched air to cont

Re: [biofuel] Re: methanol in dry gas

[kline]

> HEET is 99% methanol according to this MSDS sheet.
>
> http://www.sierranevada.edu/life/safety/msdslocl/heet
>
> HOWEVER!! there is also .2% xylenes, and an unknown percentage of two
> trade secret anti-corrosion chemicals.
>
> This solvent report indicates good quality methanol, but should be
> distilled first:
>
> HEET¨ Gas Line Antifreeze
> Address:www.goldeagle.com
> Purchased:4 Pack of 12oz bottles
> At:Walmart - $3.59
> Amount Distilled:500 ml
> Results:
> Methyl Alcohol distilled over nicely
> Last 10 ml evaporated left slightly oily residue
> Rating: GOOD - Should distill first
>
> The other option is Racing Fuel. You should be able to buy 99% methanol
> at some race tracks, and most racing fuel stores. You can order it over
> the internet also, but there tends to be a UPS hazardous transport fee
> of 20 bux in addition to shipping and price of material.
>
> Daryl
> www.forgotton.net
> 2000 Ford F-350 Powerstroke crewcab 4x4
>
> --- girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Heet brand gas line antifreeze, the yellow bottle only, is 99%
>> methanol according to someone who researched it with the company  mark
> Why do you say it should be distilled first.  Isn't 99% pure good
enough?  Why not just use it in teh transesterification process? 
Shouldn't the other stuff drop out in the washing phase?
J.D.
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Re: [biofuel] Re: methanol in dry gas

[kline]

> because in true dry gas, 99% methanol really is pure, because the other
> 1% tends to be water, and water can be dealt with. Its the "trade
> secret" other compounds that we know nothing about that would concern
> me. I dont know what it is, or what its reaction to the other chemicals
> is. I think I would prefer to get racing fuel personally, but if it
> wasnt available to me, then I would buy the HEET and distill it off. Its
> very easy to distill, and the parts to do it are available on Ebay as
> complete kits!
>
> Daryl
> www.forgotton.net
> 2000 Ford F-350 Powerstroke crewcab 4x4
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > --- girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> Heet brand gas line antifreeze, the yellow bottle only, is 99%
>> methanol according to someone who researched it with the company
>> mark
>> > Why do you say it should be distilled first.  Isn't 99% pure good
>> enough?  Why not just use it in teh transesterification process?
Daryl,
It looks like you are into racing, so you'd probably know something about
racing fuel.  About how much do you think I'd be paying for racing for per
gallon?
>> Shouldn't the other stuff drop out in the washing phase?
>> J.D.
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Re: methanol in dry gas

[kline]

> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Daryl,
>> It looks like you are into racing, so you'd probably know something
>> about
>> racing fuel.  About how much do you think I'd be paying for racing for
>> per
>> gallon?
>> >> J.D.
>
> I've spent my fair share of time at various race tracks. Started drag
> racing my 53 Ford F-100 when I was 16, then got into flat track ATV
> racing, and currently Im racing my Diesel F-350 in the quarter mile. One
> of my goals is to get my truck down into the 12 second range
> (completely possible, even with a 7200 pound 4x4, but I might need a
> little propane injection) then switch the fuel over to B-100 and do it
> again.
>
> The most common source of Racing fuel is by a company called VP Racing
> Fuels. http://www.vpracingfuels.com/. Below is the stats on their M-1
> Methanol.


Daryl,
With 5 gallons, you could make about  100 gallons of biodiesel.  If you
used waste oil and got it for free or cheap, youd be paying way less than
a dollar per gallon of diesel.  Keep us posted on your progress.  Be
careful with that methanol.  Keep us posted at the dieselstop also.  There
are a lot of us who'd like to run biodiesel or SVO.
Good luck,
J.D.(jdkline)
>
> METHANOL
> M-1 Racing Methanol has a 99.95% minimum purity. M-1 supersedes all ASTM
> specifications for pharmaceutical use. Due to extremely high
> purity, engines run cooler, and M-1 is less corrosive. We use only lined
> drums which prohibit rust, corrosion and metal deposits that can
> contaminate fuel delivery systems. Recommended for all methanol legal
> racing applications.
>
> WHile they dont list prices on their website, they do list some
> vendors. mostly the regional distributor. From there you need to find a
> local retailer. Start calling the racecar shops.
>
> As for price, its not THAT expensive, and in actuality, is cheaper than
> buying HEET by the 6-pack. Even with shipping and the Fed-Ex hazmat
> charge, you should still be in the less than 7 bucks a gallon range. If
> you can get it locally, then your prolly looking at around 5 dollars a
> gallon or less. WHereas, I dont wanna know how much it would cost to buy
> HEET by the gallon! they charge like a buck a bottle and it would take
> prolly 10 of those little things to make a gal.
>
> Daryl
> www.forgotton.net
> 2000 Ford F-350 Powerstroke crewcab 4x4
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Fuel For School

[kline]

> Hello to all,
>
> News from Eufaula, AL. Last night the city council approved a proposal
> to collect wvo and process it into biodiesel to operate the local school
> bus fleet with excess to the municipal fleet. We have also been
> encourage to and have applied for a grant from the State of Alabama (can
> you believe it) for $50,000.00 to help us fund this effort. Probably
> know about that in a couple of weeks.
>
> To Keith, I can send you a copy of my grant proposal if you would like.
> Let me know. Can send it as an attachment to you. Let me know.
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> Bill Clark
>
> That's great!!  Hope it works out well for you all.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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RE: [biofuel] Never read a bigger pile of horse manure in my life...

[kline]

> Todd,
>
>
>
> How can you say that there is no such thing as swing voters?  You're
> implying that EVERY voter actually considers the issues and candidates
> and makes an informed choice.  The truth of the matter is that many
> people still vote on party lines, though that number is decreasing. It's
> true that no single group determines the outcome of an election; but
> candidates have a fairly good idea of who their supporters and
> opposition are before they enter a race.  That said, campaigns don't
> generally waste resources courting the die-hard supporters, likewise
> they don't bother trying to sway the violent opposition.  What they do
> is concentrate on those demographics and districts that could go either
> way.  While this group may change for each race, it is definitely a
> "Swing Vote."
>
>
>
> BB,
Ther most assuredly are swing voters.  It just varies from election to
election on who they are.  We can hope that most everyone looks at the
issues and makes an informed choice, but many people vote along party
lines because of platforms, or at least planks in a platform.  Most of you
guys probably vote democrat or green because of their perceived better
environmetal record.  Does that mean you are being sheep?  No, just that
these issues are more important to you than other important issues.  The
nature of the two party system is that you don't always get what you
want(exactly).
J.D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:36 PM
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [biofuel] Never read a bigger pile of horse manure in my
> life...
>
>
>
> Yahhhhorse manure is definitely related to biofuels.
>
> When are the pundents going to realize that every voter is a "swing
> voter,"
> that there is no single constituency that determines one outcome or
> another - that from start to finish it's precious little more
> predictable
> than what shirt will end up on top when the dryer stops...
>
> (Of course it's considerably more predictable what shirt ends up where
> if
> everything is line dried.doh!)
>
> http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8904
>
>
>
>
>
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>  .
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Good car to buy?????

[kline]

> I'm looking to buy an older diesel car in which to eventually start
> running biodiesel in. I'm a student, so it has to be low$$$. Any
> suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
> Vancouver, BC, CANADA
> Areyou looking for a car or truck or van/suv what?  If a car, I'd say
find an old Mercedes diesel.  Word is they are excellent for biofuels
experimentation and very tough.  Late 70s and early 80s models still
have real value.  An older VW IDI might also be good.  If your looking
for vans and trucks, the old Ford 6.9L diesel found in the 1983-87 vans
and pickups has a good reputation.  The Dodge 12V Cummins diesel is also
a good motor, some say superior to the Fords.  The only thing you might
want to avoid is the late 70s to early 80s GM 350/5.7L diesel.  It is an
engine that was converted from gasoline and very poorly designed.  My
grandfather ran one of those until his death, but he was very handy, and
aparently also very lucky.  Best of luck
J.D.
>
>
>
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[biofuel] Sources of methanol in teh US?

[kline]

Well,
I'm ready to make a couple of test batches of biodiesel, and I just wonder
what are some good sources of methanol, common places that would carry it
that Iwouldn't have to order over the internet for, and deal with those
nasty HAZMAT shipping fees.  I know someone mentioned methyl hydrate as a
good source for small batches, but that was in Canada.  What is it used
for and where can I find it?  Thanks so much,
J.D.




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Re: [biofuel] 2,000 gallon of biodiesel (was) Sen. John Kerry on Hybrids, EVs

[kline]

>>Make it 2,000 gallon of biodiesel.
>>
>>Hakan
>
> That's three or four years' worth, on average. Diesels are only 1% of
> new cars sold in the US, but how many cars would even that be in four
> years not using fossil fuels? I don't think "they" will like it
> Hakan. I do though. :-)
>
> Kerry says: "So I'm trying to help them. I mean if $2,000 doesn't do
> it, let's make it three. What does it take to make it happen?"
>
> It's peanuts, compared with the SUV tax breaks. Should therefore be
> very feasible.
>
>>At 08:43 PM 9/25/2003, you wrote:
>>
>> >Why not give anyone who buy a biodiesel compatible car
>
> = any diesel.
>
>>a check for
>> >1000 gallon of B100, it is the same cost or cheaper. Would get the
>> biodiesel production running, save imports and environment. Would
>> sell a lot of economical diesels and get the US to produce such cars.
>> "Ready to go" and will start to save imports from the day it starts.
>> >
>> >Would be a lot of Lupos in the beginning, but would force US car
>> makers to make good diesel alternatives quite fast.
>
> So is somebody going to suggest it to him? He got burned last time he
> opened his mouth and the dread word "diesel" came out, if you recall,
> and he doesn't mention diesels this time, though he doesn't exclude
> them either.
>
>>US can put a
>> >man on the moon and make hydrogen cars. It should also be possible to
>> make a good diesel engine, or maybe it is too difficult?  Can it take
>> longer than developing a hydrogen car? Why do the Germans, French and
>> Japanese have them and the Americans not?
>
> I haven't heard it for awhile now, but Japanese friends used to say
> that the Americans can make a space rocket but not a toaster. On the
> other hand, IIRC the most recent Japanese attempt to make a space
> rocket was a bit embarrassing. And on the third hand (?) maybe the
> Japanese can't make a toaster either anymore, I think they've
> subcontracted all that stuff to China.
>
> Actually it's not just the Americans, Japan is also being a bit silly
> when it comes to diesels. More re which later, when I have the other
> half of the story tied up - quite a nice story! Or at least the other
> half's nice.
>
> regards
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>> >Hakan
>> >
>> >At 02:23 PM 9/25/2003, you wrote:
>> >
>> > > >Excerpt from an interview in the Detroit Free Press Yesterday:
>> (Peter Horton gave Kerry a ride in his EV1 a few weeks back)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >The interview is here, toward the bottom:
>> > >
>> > ><http://www
>> >
>>.freep.com/voices/columnists/ekerry23_20030923.htm>http://www.freep.co
>> m/voices/columnists/ekerry23_20030923.htm
>
> Keith,
I think my F-250 might burn through the 1000 gallons in a year, maybe
more, that's why I want to make biodiesel.  Just trying to figure ouyt how
not to kill myself in the process.  I know what you mean about Japan and
diesels.  It seems they have started a program called "DieselNO!" and
hjave been trying to reduce or eliminate their fleet.  The lower NOx and
PM2 requirements scare automakers.  They are a littl afraid I think to
invest all the time and money into making a clean diesel, when clean may
not be clean enough.
>
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Re: [biofuel] Sources of methanol in teh US?

[kline]

> I get mine from Univar and All Pro.  I think All Pro just got brought
> out so the name might be different now.  They deal in racing equipment
> and the like
>
> George
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Well,
>> I'm ready to make a couple of test batches of biodiesel, and I just
>> wonder what are some good sources of methanol, common places that
>> would carry it that Iwouldn't have to order over the internet for, and
>> deal with those nasty HAZMAT shipping fees.  I know someone mentioned
>> methyl hydrate as a good source for small batches, but that was in
>> Canada.  What is it used for and where can I find it?  Thanks so much,
>> J.D.
>>
>> What are Univar, and Allpro?  I was hoping for a common use source so
that I could find it locally
>>
>>
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Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article

[kline]

> Alex wrote:
>
>> Dan,
>> I disagree with what you say.
>> If sun radiation was linked to cancer it doesn't really mean it's
>> causing it.
>
> sorry I can't let this go by.  Wrong, wrong, wrong...   nothing, plants,
>  animals,  nothing would survive on the surface of the planet without
> ozone filtering the short wavelength light.  (sunlight just the same)
> Current evolutionary theory suggests that life began a few meters below
> the surface of the earth (under water) due to the deadly flux of
> sunlight, about 4 billion years ago- give or take a few hundred million.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> This is what causing cancer  - chemicals which accumulate in the body.
>
> meaningless.  food and water are chemicals.
>
>> Sunscreens too. Basically, underlying cause is luck of healthy food
>> and lifestyle.
>
> so tell me, what is health food?  Broccoli?  nope,  it's known to
> contain substances which cause cancer.  Vitamins?  careful, there is a
> condition which can be deadly, overdosing on fat soluble vitamins,
> particularly A.
>
>
>> On the contrary, sun = life.
>
> also too much sun or sun of the short wavelength variety mean death_
> actually, it means cross-linked DNA which can lead to mutations and/or
> cancer.  The statistics are overwhelming.  More exposure to sun
> correlates with higher incidence of cancer.
>
>> Water already contains some radioactive isotopes of Hydrogen - this is
>> what heavy water is.
>
> well, only sort of.  heavy water generally refers to deuterium oxide,
> which is not radioactive.
>
>
>> Generally speaking, natural radioactivity by itself is quite safe, or
>> may be beneficial,
>
> Phooey,  Uranium miners have a much higher incidence of cancer than the
> general population.  Any source of ionizing radiation be it alpha
> particles, beta particles, gamma rays all cause defects in DNA.
>
>
> Sorry but you are sorely in need of a short course in health physics.
>
> Short answer is too much of anything causes cancer.  Too much
radioactivity definitely increases the risk.  I'm not quite sold on the
radon is deadly theory.  If it caused so much lung cancer, hopw come
everyone we heard about who dies from lung cancer gets it because they
smoke, live with a smoker, or used toxic industrial or radioactive
chemicals?  Another reason I think we may be seeing more cancer is that
people are living longer, long enough to die from chronic diseases like
cancer and heart disease instead of epidemics, at least here in the
west.  But I hear you on the concerns about all of the chemicals in our
food and water, and especially the profusion of new OTC and prescription
drugs.  No one knows for sure what these will do to us over the long
haul.
J.D.
>
> --
> Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob
> ---
> "Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the
> basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is
> more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of
> the universe." - Frank Zappa
>
> ---
> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] A good use for dino-fuels!

[kline]

> Sorry, but that's a very miserable way to go. Wouldn't wish that type of
> demise on my worst enemy.
>
> However, shackling him to an old moldy dungeon wall and giving him
> nothing but a bread and water ration until he repented and promised to
> cloister himself in a Alpine monastery for the rest of his days would
> suit me fine.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ware, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Biofuel (E-mail)" 
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 2:26 PM
> Subject: FW: [biofuel] A good use for dino-fuels!
>
>
>> I've got 10 gallons I'd be glad to send.
>> john ware
>>I thought you left wingers were supposed to be the compassionate,
tolerant ones.  I wouldn't ahve said such a thing about the previous
occupant of the White House, despite my emphatic disagreement with him
on the issues.  Thankfully our leaders don't come and go taht way, what
I wish on my political enemies is ouster from their miserable offices.
J.D.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Frederick E. Finch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:11 PM
>> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [biofuel] A good use for dino-fuels!
>>
>>
>> SIPHON ANYONE?
>>
>> A lobbyist, on his way home from work in Washington, D.C., comes to a
>> dead halt in traffic and thinks to himself, "Wow, this seems worse
>> than usual." He notices a police officer walking between the lines of
>> stopped cars, so he rolls down his window and asks, "Officer, what's
>> the hold-up?"
>>
>> The officer replies, "The President is depressed, so he stopped his
>> motorcade and is threatening to douse himself in gasoline and set
>> himself on fire. He says no one believes his stories about why we went
>> to war in Iraq, or the connection between Saddam and al-Qa'ida, or
>> that his tax cuts will help anyone except his wealthy friends; the
>> press called him on the lie about Iraq trying to buy uranium from
>> Niger, and now Campbell Brown is threatening to sue him for a sexual
>> innuendo he made at a recent press conference. So we're taking up a
>> collection for him."
>>
>> The lobbyist asks, "How much have you got so far?"
>>
>> The officer replies, "About 14 gallons, but a lot of folks are still
>> siphoning."
>>
>>
>> 
>> Frederick E. FinchDelivery System Manager
>> MINITEX Delivery Services   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  (612) 624-3374   Direct
>> 15 Andersen Library(612) 624-4002   Office
>> 222 21st Avenue South (800) 462-5348   WATS
>> Minneapolis   MN   55455(612) 624-4508   FAX
>>
>>
>>
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>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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>>
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>>
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>
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Re: [biofuel] He's neither Was: A good use for dino-fuels!

[kline]

> IMHO, ol' "Junior" is neither a "right"  nor a "left winger".   I
> know very well, the "true" "Compassionate Conservative" point of view.
> And though he calls himself so ... where the rubber meets the road .. he
> doesn't act it.  His  .. true colors show.
>
> Gang, make NO mistake about it .. he is NOT a "true" "Compassionate
> Conservative".  It's just a name he hides under ... so that when lefty's
> try to beat him up, it's the conservatives that take the beating 
> and "not him".   Very slick trick.   Just to get Republican people
> support.
>
> True "Compassionate Conservatism" has fallen by the wayside many, many
> dynasties ago.   It's office personnel has long been replaced by new
> people ... of a new paradigm.   People that should be called by a NEW
> party name. The Corporato-power-o-greed-o party maybe??   The
> wage-minus-rent-is-zero-u-B-my-slave-o party maybe??
>
> Curtis
>
> Get your free newsletter at
> http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> You might care to give a little time to rethinking your paradigm.
>
> One does not have to be a "left winger" to despise those who either
> ignorantly or wantonly wreak as much havoc as has done Junior.
>
> Just ask a random sampling of 100 Republicans the next time you walk
> down the street.
>
> Todd Swearingen
> FWIW,
I don't completely agree with the Republicans or the Democrats.  I find
the Republicans too pro big business, and I find the Democrats far too
anti-wealth, achievment, and economic freedom.  Remember, it is not money
that is the root of all evil, it is teh love of it.  I think we will all
agree that many in corporate America have forgotten that with their
economic liberty comes the responsibility to be honest, to pay their
employees enough to live, plus have some left over, and to follow the law
like the rest of us.  At the same time, is it really right to take 55% of
someone's income because they have a little more than the next guy, even
if they came by every cent they have in a most honest and worthy manner? 
I also think that we should be developing alternative energy sources,
because fossil fuels are a finite resource and their continued burning
common sense tells us will lead the environment to be less clean than it
could be.  I also disagree with the Republicans on their inane war against
drugs.  It is a huge waste of resources.  But I also have a bone to pick
with teh democrats on the abortion issue.  I just don't think its right. 
I am pro private gun ownership as well, another right that the left wants
to take from us.  So there is my political paradigm in brief.  You all can
criticize it if you want
J.D.
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] looking for an engine

[kline]

> I'm trying to run a bicycle on bio-fuel. The only engines I can find
> run on gas. Is it possible to convert or find a small diesel engine.
> thank you
>
> I have no idea if this would work or not, but i've seen small 1-2HP
diesel engines for pump applications in an industrail catalogue at work.
I don't think the boss still has it though, but you might search the net
for something like that, cause they are out there.  I just don't know if
you could use one for your application or if you could, if you'd want to
spend enough money to do it right.
J.D.
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Test Batch

[kline]

> Hi,
>
> I tried a 500 mL test batch with some used vegetable shortening from
> Long John Silvers.  I used 100 mL of Methanol and 2.8 g of NaOH.  I  got
> two distinct layers, but there was some glycerine floating in my
> biodiesel layer.  Then I took about 150 mL of biodiesel/ glycerin  layer
> and mixed that with about 150 mL of water.  I got 4 layers!   The top
> was clear enough to see through and sort of golden color and  about 1/4
> of the mixture volume.  The second layer was very cloudy,  fairly golden
> color and about 1/3 of the mixture volume.  The thrid  was opaque ad
> white and of insignificant volume.  The bottom layer  was cloudy and
> grey and about 1/2 of the mixture volume.  I only used  2.8 g of lye.
> What went wrong?  And if this happens on a large scale  batch, what
> should I do?  Could I possibly filter out the glycerin  after the
> reaction?
>
> Dave
>
> Dave,
I haven't any experience making Bio-D, but I have looked into it, and from
the resources on Keith's website, and everywhere else I've looked, you
didn't use enough methanol or lye.  Try again, this time go to the store
and buy some fresh oil, measure out one liter, add 3.5 grams of lye to
20Ml of methanol, and enjoy.  Let me know if that works better.
J.D.
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] taking the plunge--have questions

[kline]

> Tom,
>
> I found my Jetta at http://portland.craigslist.org/car/
>
> Sue
>
> Keith Addison wrote:
>
>>  Hello Tom
>>
>> >Keith, one thing I'd like to know is how did you so easily come by an
>>
>> >'86 Jetta. I've looked and looked and can't find one anywhere.
>> >Tom
>>
>> I didn't, Sue did. You have to read the little ">" thingies right to
>> see who wrote what. If your mail program isn't showing them, then
>> adjust it so it does, or get one that does - you can't do email
>> properly without them. In this message there are three layers of them
>> - three means Sue wrote it, two means I wrote it, one means you wrote
>> it. Which doesn't help you in your Jetta quest, but maybe Sue'll tell
>> you how she did it.
>> Keith
>>
>>Tom,
A little advice on finding a diesel... remember that you are looking for a
vehicle that represents <1% of passenger vehicles in the U.S.  Most of us
who have bought an older diesel, whether for environmental or other
reasons, have had to look outside their local area.  Autotrader.com is a
good place to start.  Also, look close to home at local used car lots, but
remember that private seller vehicles tend to be better and cheaper than
dealer ones, but this is not always the case.  You might get lucky, but be
patient and don't settle!
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Sins of Emisssion

[kline]

> http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2003/11/we_601_05b.html
>
> November 7, 2003
>
> Sins of Emisssion
>
> It's well known that former Utah governor Michael O. Leavitt, the new
> head of the Environmental Protection Agency, is no friend of the
> environment. So it was only fitting that the Bush administration
> timed yet another rollback of environmental protections to coincide
> with Leavitt's first day on the job.
>
> Leavitt officially started his term as head of the EPA on Thursday, a
> day after EPA lawyers, on instructions from on high, announced that
> they would drop 70 investigations into coal-burning power plants that
> violated pollution laws. The move will benefit the utility industry,
> possibly saving it tens of billions of dollars' worth of
> pollution-control upgrades. The move comes as little surprise: it's
> part of a broader, systematic strategy on the part of the Bush
> administration to weaken the EPA to the point of irrelevance.
>
> Companies already accused of violating pollution laws will be let off
> the hook. Under the New Source Review program, a provision of the  Clean
> Air Act of 1970, oil refineries, power plants, and industrial  boilers
> were required to install pollution controls when making
> extensive improvements that increased harmful emissions. While for  many
> years this program was not enforced, in 1999 the EPA actually  started
> making firms accountable for air pollution. Once a plant had  been
> marked with an NOV (notice of violation), its case was
> traditionally taken to the Justice Department where legal action was
> taken to either sue the company in violation, or make a settlement.  By
> the end of 2000, two of the nation's largest power companies had  agreed
> to cut emissions by two-thirds.
>
> Once Bush entered office, most of this progress was reversed. The two
> firms backed out of their agreements. And modifications by the Bush
> administration to the New Source Review program, to come into effect
> next month, will clear as many as 70 pollution violators currently
> being investigated of any responsibility. The new rules say that as
> long as a renovation project costs less than 20 percent of the power
> generated by the units, no pollution controls are necessary. Experts
> say that this would clear most of the plants currently under
> investigation of a responsibility to clean up their acts.
>
> Environmentalists are outraged--and several senior Democratic
> Senators have already called for a review of the decision.
> Environmentalist John Walke, director of the NRDC's Clean Air Project
> says:
>
> "The Bush administration's clean air rollback, like the smokestack
> emissions it will permit, really stinks. But it is music to the ears  of
> utility companies, which stand to save hundreds of millions, or  even
> billions, of dollars from the rule change."
>
> Proponents justify the changes in terms of cost savings -- the EPA  and
> the Justice Department have spent tens of millions of dollars on
> Clinton-era cases -- but they're also a handy way for the Bush
> administration to give back to some of their financial backers. The
> utility industry was one of Bush's biggest campaign contributors, and
> exempting them from having to buy expensive pollution control
> equipment makes for a nice thankyou. The rollback on emissions grew  out
> of a recommendation by Vice President Dick Cheney, who urged a  study of
> pollution enforcement after industry complaints. As Osha  Gray Davidson
> reported in the Sept/Oct 2003 of Mother Jones, Cheney's  influence is
> (even) more malign than you might think:
>
> "The Cheney task force is behind another of the administration's pet
> projects-protecting utilities from having to comply with a law
> enacted 26 years ago. Some 30,000 Americans die each year because the
> federal government is unwilling to take meaningful steps to enforce  the
> Clean Air Act's standards for coal-fired power plants."
>
> As for the EPA's new boss, it's no small irony that Leavitt's one
> virtue in the eyes of environmentalists was that he had a hand in a
> successful air-quality partnership project to clean up the haze over
> the Grand Canyon. But now it seems that his air pollution record will
> go the way of his approach to land use and wildlife protection. The
> Montana Kaimin has this to say about his environmental record:
>
> "[T]hese feats aren't enough to compensate for his slips: his hand in
> pushing to reopen Utah's public lands to development, his support of  a
> multimillion-dollar Legacy Highway which would cut through delicate
> wetlands bordering the Great Salt Lake and, as a governor, bringing
> suit against the EPA, calling federal clean-air standards "totally
> irrational."
>
> This move is just one more in a series of anti-enviro measures that
> point to the the Bush administration's overall goal of making the EPA
> more industry friendly, no matter the environmental cost. The Bush
> administration has sought 

Re: [biofuel] Sins of Emisssion

[kline]

> J.D. wrote:
>
>> > http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2003/11/we_601_05b.html
>> >
>> > November 7, 2003
>> >
>> > Sins of Emisssion
>> >
>> > It's well known that former Utah governor Michael O. Leavitt, the
>> new head of the Environmental Protection Agency, is no friend of the
>> environment. So it was only fitting that the Bush administration
>> timed yet another rollback of environmental protections to coincide
>> with Leavitt's first day on the job.
>> >
>> > Leavitt officially started his term as head of the EPA on Thursday,
>> a day after EPA lawyers, on instructions from on high, announced
>> that they would drop 70 investigations into coal-burning power
>> plants that violated pollution laws. The move will benefit the
>> utility industry, possibly saving it tens of billions of dollars'
>> worth of
>> > pollution-control upgrades. The move comes as little surprise: it's
>> part of a broader, systematic strategy on the part of the Bush
>> administration to weaken the EPA to the point of irrelevance.
>
> 
>
>> > Keith,
>>We don't want the EPA to tighten down too much on emissions or there
>> will be no new diesels made.
>
> Uhh - sorry, how does backing off on emissions controls on
> coal-burning power plants relate to new diesels being made? Not that
> there are any being made now in the US to speak of - 1% of new car
> sales. Want a diesel? Buy a truck.
>
> "Some 30,000 Americans die each year because the federal government  is
> unwilling to take meaningful steps to enforce the Clean Air Act's
> standards for coal-fired power plants."
>
> So never mind that, just get us our new diesels?
>
> Anyway, new diesels are clean - what's not clean is the US fuel, it's
> filthy, amongst the worst in the world. That's the problem, not the
> diesels themselves (if any), nor the EPA, nor the Bush gang's
> murderous rollbacks. 2006-7 they say they'll clean the fuel up. Good,
> fine, then you'll get your new clean diesels. From Europe and Japan,
> and you'd have them already if the US weren't 17 years behind Europe  in
> cleaning up its fuel. Detroit? Well, don't hold your breath
> (unless you're living near one of those 70 dirty power plants).
>
> Here in Japan, Tokyo, and now other cities, have staged anti-diesel
> campaigns. It's an easy vote-catcher, and the car companies played
> along, more or less forcing people to get rid of their diesel cars  and
> buy new gasoline models, lots of car sales, and of course that  means
> more fuel consumption, lots of fuel sales, so the fuel
> importers loved it too. Pity about the Kyoto protocol (so raise
> taxes), and that gasoline cars are dirtier than diesels anyway, and
> that the campaign didn't attack the culprits - the fuel importers  with
> their dirty fuel. They fought shy of taking on the powerful
> lobby groups. But it's having some good effects anyway. The fuel
> importers have been chivvied into providing ultra-low sulphur diesel
> fuel quite a lot earlier than they'd planned, for one thing. All
> trucks visiting the restricted cities have had to fit particulate
> filters. And Tokyo now reports air-pollution is right down. Enter
> biodiesel... But that's another story.
>
> That's a not very good way of going about it, but at least some good  is
> coming of it. What good will come of the EPA's back-down, other  than to
> the good ol' boys of the coal industry, and 30,000 less
> people to worry about providing future medical care and welfare for?
>
> If you think that last bit's preposterous, have a look at this:
>
> "Smoking can seriously aid your economy -- Tobacco firm tells Czech
> government how cigarette smokers benefit state coffers", The Guardian
> Weekly July 19 2001
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4222888,00.html
>
>>I actually agree that coal plants need to be more
>>tightly regulated.  They are pretty dirty.  I live right up the road
>> from one.  Its not that bad froma visible point of view but I know all
>> that stuff can't be too good for us or the environment.  I'm not
>> convinced that anthropogenic particulates present a real health hazard
>> in the
>>concentrations that they exist in the environment now.
>
> Many others, however, are, and much research backs it up. Anyway, you
> don't need to be convinced, neither does anybody, it's obviously a  case
> for the Precautionary Principle, much as the US might officially  be in
> denial about that.
>
> Keith
>
>>J.D.
>
> Keith,
I'd be interested in hearing about some of these studies.  I don't
disregard them, liek I said I'm just not convinced.  I find it kind of
hard to believe, but I'd like to see us move away from coal power
regardless.  No, I'm not saying that I care abou the new diesels more than
those 30K estimated people.  Like you, I just don't think they are
killers.  I agree about the fact that there aren't many diesel cars in the
U.S. either, but much of AMerica's use of gasoline is in inefficient light
truck and SUV gas engines.  I'm saying if they could 

Re: [biofuel] making lye from ash

[kline]

>>Sounds too good to be true... anyone out there making their own KOH
>> from ash?
>>
>>Why can't we use soft woods?  What about a little?  What are some
>> municipal sources of ash/feedstock for this process (I would not want
>> to burn hardwood scraps and put more carbon in the atmosphere if I
>> could find a connection to ash directly).
>>
>>Dave
>
> Hi Dave
>
> Trouble is the content of wood ash varies widely. Another problem is
> that the KOH is mixed with potassium carbonate, and some sodium too.
> Which may not be as big a problem as it sounds. But at any rate you'd
> have to test the strength each time, somehow. Hence the red cabbage
> juice and other natural testers. I'll be trying this quite soon, got
> most of what I need, except for a couple of things.
>
> Check this thread:
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/16415/1
> Making methanol and lye
>
> Especially lye. Nice description and slide show of producing
> Chlorine, Hydrogen, and Lye from table salt, using PET bottles,
> flashlight batteries, glue and stuff.
>
> Unfortunately that site has moved now. It's here, but I can't find  this
> material there:
> http://cavemanchemistry.com/
> Caveman Chemistry : Hands-on Projects in Chemical Technology
>
> But the process is described here:
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/28372/
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
> Isn't all of the wood that is burned part of the closed carbon cycle as
opposed to burning fossil fuels which have been out of the cycle for a
long time?  Also, I know my ashes from the fireplace can get pretty
caustic when I let the  sit with a little water in them over the period
of a couple of weeks, but i have no idea of it would be strong enough
for a biodiesel reaction.  It was strong enough to burn the bottom out
of my ash pan though.  Most people use some softwood to get a fire
started, even some paper.  I'm just wondering if this would render them
unusable.
J.D.
>
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>
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Re: [biofuel] "The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change"

[kline]

> Good info, Ron, very interesting! Now I'm going to read it all again.
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>>I purchased a Mercedes Benz 1995 E300 diesel with slightly over
>>100,000 miles on the odometer.  Mercedes dealer impeccably maintained it
>>prior to my purchase as it was under a Starmark warrantee.  I'm not sure
>>if it used synthetic oil prior to my purchase, but I immediately changed
>>it to Mobil 1 15W-50.  I then performed professional oil analysis at
>>several change intervals, including 4,000, 6,000, 8,000 and 10,000
>>miles, numerous times.  My lab reports suggested this motor was well
>>protected even at the 10,000-mile change intervals using Mobil 1.  Soot
>>levels were under 2%, all other data within expected values.
>
> 
>
> Yep,
That is a common figure for synthetic, but you must do oil analysis to
make sure you still ahev good protection as the oil ages.  For those
interested in conservation, it may be a good, if small measure.  If you
are not running fossil fuels in there, soot will be lower, and therefore,
the oil viscocity will stay more like it should.  I would not recommend
those kind of intervals for those of us burning fossil fuels much of teh
time and/or using mineral based oil in an older diesel.  Its asking for
trouble.
>
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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Re: [biofuel] "The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change"

[kline]

> I would respectfully disagree with your assessment.
> Well,
Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.  I just know that with my
truck, in 3000 miles, its time for a change.  that's with Shell rotellaT
15W-40 dino oil in a 6.9 International.  What are you driving?
J.D.
> You say: " I would not recommend those kind of intervals for those of us
> burning fossil fuels much of teh time and/or using mineral based oil in
> an older diesel.  Its asking for trouble."
>
> I have ONLY used fossil fuels in this automobile. The dozens of
> professional lab results indicate the oil as new, even after 100 plus
> thousand miles, with the use of bypass filtration, and still well within
> acceptable limits after 10,000 miles without bypass filtration.  My
> results are over the course of several years, 200,000 plus miles.
>
> Unless having as new oil lubricating my engine at all times is asking
> for trouble, I find your statement questionable, but, these are MY
> results, substantiated by professional lab analysis, yours may indeed
> differ.
>
> In any event, I think we will agree that oil analysis is imperative if
> one is considering extended drain intervals, as no two engines are
> identical.
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> >>I purchased a Mercedes Benz 1995 E300 diesel with slightly over
>> >>100,000 miles on the odometer.  Mercedes dealer impeccably maintained
>> it
>> >>prior to my purchase as it was under a Starmark warrantee.  I'm not
>> sure
>> >>if it used synthetic oil prior to my purchase, but I immediately
>> changed
>> >>it to Mobil 1 15W-50.  I then performed professional oil analysis at
>> >>several change intervals, including 4,000, 6,000, 8,000 and 10,000
>> >>miles, numerous times.  My lab reports suggested this motor was well
>> >>protected even at the 10,000-mile change intervals using Mobil 1.
>> Soot
>> >>levels were under 2%, all other data within expected values.
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > Yep,
>> That is a common figure for synthetic, but you must do oil analysis to
>> make sure you still ahev good protection as the oil ages.  For those
>> interested in conservation, it may be a good, if small measure.  If you
>> are not running fossil fuels in there, soot will be lower, and
>> therefore,
>> the oil viscocity will stay more like it should.  I would not recommend
>> those kind of intervals for those of us burning fossil fuels much of teh
>> time and/or using mineral based oil in an older diesel.  Its asking for
>> trouble.
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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>
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[biofuel] Methanol Based HEET for test batches

[kline]

There was some discussion about this awhile back I rememeber, but as soon
as the semester is over, I will be maing a test batch or two, and I see
that this stuff is cheap and readily available.  What do you think?
J.D.



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[biofuel] How long does lye take to dissolve in methanol

[kline]

I finally took the step of making a test batch of biodiesel.  At least I
have attempted to mix teh methoxide.  I bought a bottle of HEET gas line
antifreeze which is reportedly of a high enough purity to use, and a jar
of red devil lye.  I mixed about 7 grams of lye to a bit better than 300Ml
of Methanol.  How long before I have useable methoxide?  IO tried looking
at Keith's site, but apparently its down tonight or else my browser is
having trouble recognizing it.  Can you all help me? Thanks!
J.D.



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Re: [biofuel] Re: How long does lye take to dissolve in methanol

[kline]

>>I finally took the step of making a test batch of biodiesel. At least I
>>have attempted to mix teh methoxide. I bought a bottle of HEET gas line
>>antifreeze which is reportedly of a high enough purity to use, and a jar
>>of red devil lye. I mixed about 7 grams of lye to a bit better than 300Ml
>>of Methanol. How long before I have useable methoxide? IO tried looking
>>at Keith's site, but apparently its down tonight or else my browser is
>>having trouble recognizing it. Can you all help me? Thanks!
>>J.D.
>
> Hello J.D.
>
> Our site was down, it's back now, sorry. See:
> Mixing the methoxide
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#methmix
>
> ... and also I think other sections at the "Make your own biodiesel"
> pages. The full ToC is below.
>
> Couple of questions though.
>
> Are you using virgin oil for your first test batch? What quantity? If
> not virgin oil, what oil? (Best to start with virgin oil.)
>
> These measures seem strange:
>
>>of red devil lye. I mixed about 7 grams of lye to a bit better than 300Ml
>>of Methanol.
>
> 7 grams of lye would either be for two litres of virgin oil or for
> one litre of WVO titrating at 3.5ml. How did you weigh the lye? Two
> litres of virgin oil would take 400 ml of methanol, one litre of WVO
> would take 200 ml of methanol. Could you explain?
>
> These don't bode well J.D.: "about", "a bit better than". It really
> pays to try to be as precise and meticulous as possible, especially
> at the beginning. Later when you're more experienced and have a feel
> for it you'll know which short-cuts you can take wihout risk, or too
> much risk. At the beginning you're dealing with unknowns. If it
> doesn't work out as expected, knowing that you've done your best to
> be precise with measurements and process control will be a great help
> in trying to figure out what went wrong. Otherwise you'll be faced
> with too many variables and you'll flounder.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
> Make your own biodiesel
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
> Three choices
> 1. Mixing it
> 2. Straight vegetable oil
> 3. Biodiesel
> Biodiesel
> Where do I start?
> What's next?
> The process
> Our first biodiesel
> Biodiesel from new oil
> Biodiesel from waste oil
> Washing
> Using biodiesel
> Safety
> How much methanol?
> Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel
> Reclaiming excess methanol
> More about lye
> How much lye to use?
> Basic titration
> Better titration
> Accurate measurements
> pH meters
> Phenolphthalein
> High FFA levels
> Deacidifying WVO
> No titration?
> The basic lye quantity -- 3.5 grams?
> Mixing the methoxide
> Test batches
> Stock methoxide solution
> How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid?
> PET bottle mixers
> Viscosity testing
> How the process works
> What are Free Fatty Acids?
> Which method to use?
> Quality
> Quality testing
> Other uses
> Identifying plastics
> Separating glycerine/FFAs
>
>
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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>
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>
>
>
> I know I screwed up on my measurements, and that's probably why its too
soapy to use.  I did use virgin oil on this batch and probably will
again or some clean wvo. And I'll be more precise with my measurements. 
i think I used too much lye and that caused too much saponification. 
I'll let you all know how batch No 2 comes off tonight.
J.D.
>




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Re: [biofuel] 82 mercedes 300td HELP!

[kline]

> While I realized that this is not the best place for a benz question,
> Hi,
Don't know much about the Benz diesels in particular, but I know some guys
who do.  Look for an interactive forum for Mercedes Benz owners.  there
you'll find a guy named Tim, who goes by the handle "The Warden" who is a
memeber on the Ford diesel site too, and he's a Benz expert, but he's just
one of many over there.  Don't panic.  It's almost certainly still a good
engine and driveline.  In any diesel I know anything about, that would be
a fuel starvation problem, and is caused by fuel pump failure, injection
pump failure, injector failure, or a resriction in the fuel system or air
intake.  Good luck, I know you'll run this one down quick.
> here goes-
>
> I have an '82 300td [wagon] with 239,000k miles on it.
>
> Just bought it last week and got the paperwork done so I can start driving
> it
> this week.
>
> I ran around Savannah[GA] here with it several days- Ok.  No problems.
>
> Today, the car started to hesitate big time.
>
> I'm running only dino diesel fuel.
>
> The seller changed both fuel filters prior to the sale.
>
> The car would run briefly, but then would crawl along at 5MPH at best-
> then it
> coughed and gave up the ghost.
>
> The engine will turn over.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> -Michael
>
> -
> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
>
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday

[kline]

> Yes, I wondered the same thing.  I think the question of how much NOx
> might come
> from biodiesel is somewhat complex, depending on the fuel and the engine?
>
> On the rest of the emissions issues, I think it is not disputed that
> Biodiesel
> would be a help.
>
> The 2007 sulfur-reduction date is a disappointment I think.
>
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:48:26 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>I wonder if this will have any effect on the sale and use of biodiesel
>>in the US, since its nitrous oxide levels are higher than petro diesel?
>>The article seems to stress that the reduction in nitrous oxide levels
>>are their focus.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>Well, there are basically 2 opinions on this, either the diesel engien
will adjust to these new requirements, and because of the fact that if
the NOx and particulate emissions can be controlled, they are by far
more environmentally friendly, they will be everywhere by 2010.  Others
say diesels will go teh way of the dinosaur, and everything will have to
have spark plugs by 2010.  What say you all?  Personally I haven't a
clue.  I just know what I think would be good.
J.D.
>>murdoch wrote:
>>
>>>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&e=1&u=/nm/20040510/sc_nm/environment_diesel_dc
>>>
>>>Fuel refiners will be required to produce diesel fuel by 2012 that is 99
>>> percent free of smog-causing nitrogen oxides under the new rules, which
>>> the EPA proposed a year ago.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
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[biofuel] I have clean washed biodiesel now what?

[kline]

Well,
After ,making my first few test batches, I now have a few quarts of nice
clear contaminant free biodiesel.  The viscoscity feels much thinner than
SVO and pours much like #2 diesel.  Color is a pale yellow, almost straw
like color.  I do have a couple of questions, concerns.  When I first did
the reaction, the fuel was very cloudy and it looked like an incomplete
reaction, which you all say is typical of using PET mixers rather than the
proper blender or processor method.  It did almost immediately show
separtion into glycerin and ester though.  Since I knew I probably used
too much lye, I added some apple cider vineager to the first wash to
neutralize any remaining catalyst as in Mike Pelly's recipe.  I'm sure it
drops out along with the wash water and soaps, but the fuel still has a
bit of a vineagary smell to it.  Finally, can I check the pH of the fuel
itself, or will only a test of the washwater yield accurate results?  Is
litmus paper acceptable for this?  Is it safe to burn this test batch in
my truck, assuming clarity and good pH?  My truck is an International 6.9L
IDI diesel by the way.
I appreciate the info from all of you.
J.D.



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Re: [biofuel] Bio-D as a chainsaw bar&chain lube?

[kline]

> Keith, Gustl,
The saw is a Stihl 025 with an 18" bar and a replaceable floating rim
sprocket so that replacement isn't much.  Some components are near the end
of their anticipated useful life so I'm not running that big of a risk.  I
am not a professional logger, but I do cut a fair bit of firewood, dead
trees and waste from construction sites that would otherwise be wasted and
make a little "something for nothing" from it.  I just got the idea and
poured it in.  I can tell that it is working so far as it has that bit of
spray you all talked about from the end of the bar.  I have only run it
this way for about 15-20 minutes.  I will keep you posted.  I think teh
saw itself might outlast me at the rate I'm using it now.  Keith you are
right, Stihl makes a vegoil based bar and chain lube.  I was interested in
it because it is renewable, but the dealer said you'd have to special
order taht in the U.S., but that was a few years back.
J.D.>
>>Hallo J.D.,
>>
>>Monday, 17 May, 2004, 01:51:19, you wrote:
>>
>>kmgn> I tried some of my test batch in teh oil reservior on my chainsaw
>> today,
>>kmgn> and so far noproblems.  I read on the JTF site that it is a
>>good non-toxic
>>kmgn> household and garden lube.  Now for those not familiar with
>>what good bar
>>kmgn> and chain lube has to do, it must lubricate the drum, floating rim
>>kmgn> sprocket, the chain sprocket and cutting chain.  No internal
>>engine parts
>>kmgn> are affected.  All oil pump assy. parts are cheap and easily
>> replaced as
>>kmgn> are most of the other parts I described.  WHat do you all think?
>>kmgn> Thanks, J.D.
>>
>>I  would  think  that  biodiesel is too thin to do the job but that is
>>just  a  guess.  I  wouldn't  use  a  good chain saw to test it on. No
>>problems  "so  far" is just that, so far. It also has to lubricate the
>>bar  and  chain  as  well and needs to stick to those parts as much as
>>possible.  Have  you ever noticed how much weigh oil comes off the end
>>of that bar as you are cutting? And that is a heavy oil.  Chains, bars
>>and  sprockets  aren't  cheap, at least not to me.  Let us know how it
>>goes though.  Who knows, it could do the trick.
>
> Caution is advised, yes, but I think viscosity and lubricity are not
> the same. Two different problems perhaps - biodiesel might well do
> the lubrication job well, but could get "used up" faster because it's
> thinner.
>
> We've had a few reports of people using it as chainsaw bar&chain lube
> with success, but no long-term reports. So please keep us advised,
> J.D., even if it self-destructs.
>
> I believe there are vegoil-based chainsaw lubricants available.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>Happy Happy,
>>
>>Gustl
>>--
>
>
>
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>
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RE: [biofuel] Bio-D as a chainsaw bar&chain lube?

[kline]

> Any thoughts on alternative fuels for chainsaws?
>
> George
>
> George Page
> www.seabreezefarm.net
> Vashon Island, WA USA
>   -Original Message-
>   From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 12:57 PM
>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bio-D as a chainsaw bar&chain lube?
>
>
>   Hi J.D.
>
>   > > Keith, Gustl,
>   >The saw is a Stihl 025 with an 18" bar and a replaceable floating rim
>   >sprocket so that replacement isn't much.
>
>   Same as ours, but yours is bigger. I'm not sure about the floating
>   rim sprocket. Trouble is, it's in bits and pieces. It came with the,
>   um, house, and it was like that when we arrived (a bit like the
>   house). I've looked at it threateningly a few times, close enough to
>   ascertain that all the bits seem to be there, but it's still in its
>   box. We've been using circular saws up to now, but we have need of a
>   working chainsaw, I'll have to do more than just threaten it soon. If
>   it works, I'll definitely try biodiesel as lube, and also as 2-stroke
>   oil. Hm, I'll probably need a junked one for spares, have to put in
>   an order with the Gomi Kame (the God of Junk, upon whom we depend
>   rather heavily, he's most cooperative).
>
>   >Some components are near the end
>   >of their anticipated useful life so I'm not running that big of a risk.
> I
>   >am not a professional logger, but I do cut a fair bit of firewood, dead
>   >trees and waste from construction sites that would otherwise be wasted
> and
>   >make a little "something for nothing" from it.
>
>   Yes, quite, so do we. Good for you.
>
>   >I just got the idea and
>   >poured it in.  I can tell that it is working so far as it has that bit
> of
>   >spray you all talked about from the end of the bar.  I have only run it
>   >this way for about 15-20 minutes.  I will keep you posted.
>
>   Please.
>
>   >I think teh
>   >saw itself might outlast me at the rate I'm using it now.  Keith you
> are
>   >right, Stihl makes a vegoil based bar and chain lube.  I was interested
> in
>   >it because it is renewable, but the dealer said you'd have to special
>   >order taht in the U.S., but that was a few years back.
>
>   Surely it must be more common than special-order status. It's been
>   discussed here before, how much dino-muck gets spouted around forests
>   by chainsaws. IIRC it's common in Northern Europe, and I think Canada.
>
>   Ed, don't Neoteric sell that stuff? Canola-based?
>
>   Best
>
>   Keith
>
>
>   >J.D.>
>   > >>Hallo J.D.,
>   > >>
>   > >>Monday, 17 May, 2004, 01:51:19, you wrote:
>   > >>
>   > >>kmgn> I tried some of my test batch in teh oil reservior on my
> chainsaw
>   > >> today,
>   > >>kmgn> and so far noproblems.  I read on the JTF site that it is a
>   > >>good non-toxic
>   > >>kmgn> household and garden lube.  Now for those not familiar with
>   > >>what good bar
>   > >>kmgn> and chain lube has to do, it must lubricate the drum, floating
> rim
>   > >>kmgn> sprocket, the chain sprocket and cutting chain.  No internal
>   > >>engine parts
>   > >>kmgn> are affected.  All oil pump assy. parts are cheap and easily
>   > >> replaced as
>   > >>kmgn> are most of the other parts I described.  WHat do you all
> think?
>   > >>kmgn> Thanks, J.D.
>   > >>
>   > >>I  would  think  that  biodiesel is too thin to do the job but that
> is
>   > >>just  a  guess.  I  wouldn't  use  a  good chain saw to test it on.
> No
>   > >>problems  "so  far" is just that, so far. It also has to lubricate
> the
>   > >>bar  and  chain  as  well and needs to stick to those parts as much
> as
>   > >>possible.  Have  you ever noticed how much weigh oil comes off the
> end
>   > >>of that bar as you are cutting? And that is a heavy oil.  Chains,
> bars
>   > >>and  sprockets  aren't  cheap, at least not to me.  Let us know how
> it
>   > >>goes though.  Who knows, it could do the trick.
>   > >
>   > > Caution is advised, yes, but I think viscosity and lubricity are not
>   > > the same. Two different problems perhaps - biodiesel might well do
>   > > the lubrication job well, but could get "used up" faster because
> it's
>   > > thinner.
>   > >
>   > > We've had a few reports of people using it as chainsaw bar&chain
> lube
>   > > with success, but no long-term reports. So please keep us advised,
>   > > J.D., even if it self-destructs.
>   > >
>   > > I believe there are vegoil-based chainsaw lubricants available.
>   > >
>   > > Best
>   > >
>   > > Keith
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >>Happy Happy,
>   > >>
>   > >>Gustl
>   > >>--
>
>
>
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>
>
> Funny you should ask, because I was wondering if

Re: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle

[kline]

> Has anyone out there built a diesel powered motorcycle?  If so, let
> me know, I believe it would be a good project.
>
> It would be cool and unique, but what engine would you use that would
perform well in that application?
J.D.
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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Re: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle

[kline]

> There was a Dutch motorcycle that used a 2L Peugeot motor. I cannot
> remember
> what Gearbox he used, or the orientation. There is an Indian manufactured
> Enfield m/c using a Hatz 350cc diesel, but they are pedestrian. I recently
> have seen another one using a V-twin diesel, but cannot remember the
> details.
>
> Good luck! regards Doug
>
> On Mon, 31 May 2004 03:48 pm, Keith Addison wrote:
>> > > Has anyone out there built a diesel powered motorcycle?  If so, let
>> > > me know, I believe it would be a good project.
>> > >
>> > > It would be cool and unique, but what engine would you use that
>> would
>> >
>> >perform well in that application?
>> >J.D.
>>If you could use something as big as 2L, why not drop in a crate 1.9L VW
TDI?  They would probably revv high enough and respond quickly enough to
be cool in this application!
J.D.
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html
>> Diesel motorbikes
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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>> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
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RE: [biofuel] Diesel fire suppression

[kline]

>>Thank you very much for your response Arlos.  I'm new to the biofuel
>>"scene" and I find it quite disturbing that fire suppression and
>>avoidance isn't more talked about.
>
> Fire risk is a major reason for the emphasis on closed processors,
> also on TEFC pumps and stirrer motors. See:
>
> Hazards
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#haz
>
> Best
>
> Keith
> Is this even much of a concern with storing biodiesel?  I know that
methanlo and methoxide are highly flammable, but as Arlos said, you need
to bring a chemical up to its flashpoint to burn it, with biodiesel this
is more than 300*F isn't it?  You'd have  ahrd time getting that kind of
a  temp in your yard or garage.  The only way I see that you could
actually have  aproblem is if you ahd a small fire, say an electric fire
or trash fire and it involved some other materials and stared licking at
your tank.  In that case it would burn very hot and would be hard to
extinguish.  I did a similar experiment with WVO last fall.  I was
building a fire in my fire pit with my brother and a friend of mine.  We
tried to light the WVO directly with a match, even with a burning stick,
no luck, but when the fire got up to temp. it started burning the WVO
that had spilled on the pebbles.  It burned very hot and even
explosively until all the oil was consumed.  So I think it would
probably be wise to find out what the fire marshall has to say about
storage opf biodiesel or even fossil diesel.  There has to be some good
way to put this type of fire out.  Most importantly, it would seem like,
we should keep all fuels, biofuels or otherwise away from all possible
sources of ignition.
>
>>Again I really appreciate your response.  I didn't figure that I
>>would get more then a few lines from a couple of different people on
>>this subject.
>>
>>--adam
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Arlos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 7:21 AM
>>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Diesel fire suppression
>>
>>
>>Adam,
>>
>>Do a search for MSDS (Material Safety and Data Sheet) This will list the
>>flash point vapor pressure, and recommended fire suppression media. In
>>the case of one MSDS, it was noted that foam  (AFFF), dry chemical and
>>CO2 were recommended.
>>   As a former fire fighter, you have to have enough fire suppression
>>material on hand but the best advice, is get out and call 911 because no
>>amount of material wealth is worth losing your life over fighting a
>>fire. If you store your finish product in a steel drum, that needs to
>>have a bonded ground connection. Static protection is a good idea anyway
>>with working around the storage or making of bio-diesel. If your 200 L
>>is stored with a fire resistant lid (hopefully) then the next problem is
>>storage in an area where there is a source of combustion (other
>>flammables, ignition source point such as hot work equipment like
>>welding, drill motors, grinding equipment. Have a fire resistant oily
>>rag can with a spring lid.
>>  Answering exactly how much fire fighting media is need depends on
>>several points. Did a fire occur when the 200 L has spilled and has
>>involved other types of combustibles as in a wooded floor, out door near
>>dry grass or brush, curtains, furnishing, paper. Is the weather a factor
>>such as wind, humidity and temp. Is your fire contained within a drum
>>only? Is it in an enclosed area, open area outdoor, under an overhang,
>>under a tree?  In the best case, you can extinguish a self contained
>>fire by placing a lid on the container. Gas and petroleum fires are
>>fought by containing the source and laying on a blanket of oxygen
>>reducing foam Small multi class fire extinguishers have a limited amount
>>of material and should be checked annually as some dry chemicals will
>>cake during long storage they are not a good choice outdoors as the
>>wrong use can actually spread flames.One of the first things a fire
>>fighter learns is the term, "Put the wet stuff on the red stuff.". Water
>>is the number one choice for firefighting because it's cheap, available
>>and easy to transport. Water may or may not be a good choice because it
>>can actually help to spread flames. Water is used to cool a fire below
>>the flash point. Remember only a gas burns, not a liquid or a solid.
>>Only when a material is heated will it release a gas that actually
>>burns, not the material. This is the same for fluids. A garden hose will
>>deliver between 3-7 gallons per minute which is just enough to push a
>>good fire around, not put it out, Foams are mixed with water because
>>they will blanket the fuel and cool the flash point. There are several
>>commercial systems like Ansel available if you store fuel in a secure
>>area.  The most serious consideration in a bio-diesel fire are the by-
>>products of combustion. This has to be considered. In an enclosed area
>>the rapid lack of available breathable air is the single biggest factor
>>in your sur

Re: [biofuel] Smokin BioD, not smokin on PetroD

[kline]

> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a curious question for the group. Last night I put my first
> B100 in the tank. I have been running commercially produced B10 for
> about a month. The B100 is homemade.
>
> I have a two-tank truck. I ran the front tank down pretty low, added
> 3 galloons B100, so i've probably got B80-B90 in the front tank. Rear
> tank is B10. I warmed up the engine, then switched to the *B100*. The
> freeway headed down a hill. Soon as we head down hill the truck
> starts smokin like I've never seen. It was pretty thick blue smoke.
> The truck seems to let out a belch of smoke everytime I put in the
> clutch or head down hill. The smoking is not continous, little puffs
> come out at random times. I switched back to the B10 and the smoke
> seems to have died down.
>
> My first thought was "Oh that's just the biodiesel cleaning out the
> gunk". But i would expect that to clog a filter, not smoke.
>
> Any thoughts on what is going on or how I should proceed?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
> My thought is that blue smoke is usually caused by 1 of 3 things
1) Oil being burnt, blowing by teh rings or valves
2) Timing too far advanced or too far retarded
3) Engine too cold
I will assume its not #1.  You'd have noticed that on B10 or petrodiesel also
I lean towrad #2.  Biodiesel has a higher cetane rating than petrodiesel. 
Timing is set according to cetane content.
I would also think its not 3, not at least if your engine temp is in the
right range.  We'll assume its timing then, but thinking about cetane
always gives me a headache.  I can't remember whether timing should be
more retarded for higer cetane or more advanced.  I do know that many
environmentally conscious individuals suggest retarding the engine's
timing 2-3* to overcome BD's higher cetane, so I guess you're probably too
far advanced.  I would suggest getting the timing done on the fuel you
want to use most of the time at a good diesel shop unless you have a
timing tool yourself.  First lets find out what type of engine this is. 
You say it has dual tanks, so I'm assuming its a Ford F-series.  Is it a
powerstroke, a 6.9 or a 7.3 IDI?  With the IDI, you could retard teh
timing a dime's thicknessor two and see if it makes a difference.  If its
a PSD, you'll need to let the pros handle it since its computer
controlled.  On an IDI, you loosen the 3 injector pump mounting bolts and
rotate the pump itself.  Be advised, you won't get much movement out of
it, just a hair, but a little makes a lot of difference.  BTW, you rotate
it toward the driver's side to retard the timing and toward the pass side
to advance it.  I think its timing.  Look into it.
J.D.
>
>
>
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>
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>
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Smokin BioD, not smokin on PetroD

[kline]

> J.D, thanks a lot for the response.
> OK,
You mean a 6.9 engine though, unless you have done a Cummins conversion. 
I have an '86 with the 6.9 and it smoke like that before I got teh timing
set right.  Another thing is, when they smoke its like a lot of the old
OTR Cummins L-10s and Macks, it lets out a good stream of bluish/black
smoke.  At least it looks blue from the drivers seat, but in the pass seat
or in another car, you can tell that it is indeed gray/black smoke.  This
makes it a very good idea to convert them to non-fossil fuel to reduce
pollution.  I hate to say it, but another thing to consider is the
condition of the fuel injectors and injection pump.  These engines are
great, but the fuel system leaves much to be desired ):.  If you have a
good engine and your temp is good, it HAS top be fuel related.
Good Luck,
J.D.
> The truck is indeed an F250, '85 with the 5.9L engine. I like your
> assessment. The timing is the only one of the three causes that I could
> see being related to the fuel. I will keep loggin more miles and see if
> the problem keeps up. I think today I'll take a drive down to Reno to
> make sure the engine is good and warm. I think I will wait until I have
> developed a more reliable bioDiesel supply and then have the engine
> tuned and timed around that fuel. I'm also skeptical of this batch of
> fuel. We'll see how the smoke goes if I can get some commercial B100 to
> rule out fuel impurity issues. The guy who made my fuel usually only
> washes batches that are going into his girlfriend's new Jetta, so I
> can't rule the fuel out.
>
> Thanks for the response,
> Steve
>
> Steve Murphy
> Mapping Technician
> Truckee Donner PUD
> (530) 582-3943
>
>>My thought is that blue smoke is usually caused by 1 of 3 things
>>1) Oil being burnt, blowing by teh rings or valves
>>2) Timing too far advanced or too far retarded
>>3) Engine too cold
>>I will assume its not #1.  You'd have noticed that on B10 or
> petrodiesel also
>>I lean towrad #2.  Biodiesel has a higher cetane rating than
> petrodiesel.
>>Timing is set according to cetane content.
>>I would also think its not 3, not at least if your engine temp is in
> the
>>right range.  We'll assume its timing then, but thinking about cetane
>>always gives me a headache.  I can't remember whether timing should be
>>more retarded for higer cetane or more advanced.  I do know that many
>>environmentally conscious individuals suggest retarding the engine's
>>timing 2-3* to overcome BD's higher cetane, so I guess you're probably
> too
>>far advanced.  I would suggest getting the timing done on the fuel you
>>want to use most of the time at a good diesel shop unless you have a
>>timing tool yourself.  First lets find out what type of engine this is.
>
>>You say it has dual tanks, so I'm assuming its a Ford F-series.  Is it
> a
>>powerstroke, a 6.9 or a 7.3 IDI?  With the IDI, you could retard teh
>>timing a dime's thicknessor two and see if it makes a difference.  If
> its
>>a PSD, you'll need to let the pros handle it since its computer
>>controlled.  On an IDI, you loosen the 3 injector pump mounting bolts
> and
>>rotate the pump itself.  Be advised, you won't get much movement out of
>>it, just a hair, but a little makes a lot of difference.  BTW, you
> rotate
>>it toward the driver's side to retard the timing and toward the pass
> side
>>to advance it.  I think its timing.  Look into it.
>>J.D.
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Smokin BioD, not smokin on PetroD

[kline]

> sorry, yeah, a 6.9L. I still can't believe 6.9 litres could move so
> slow. It does help explain the volume of smoke though, 9 1/4 wine
> bottles worth of combustion space! Wow, that seemed like a lot until I
> converted it to beers, only 19 1/2, still a solid days work.
>
>>You mean a 6.9 engine though,
>
> Steve Murphy
> Mapping Technician
> Truckee Donner PUD
> (530) 582-3943
> Steve,
no they are not racecars, but aside from a few issues, they are a
bulletproof motor.  You should not be having excessive smoke like that. 
It indicates that your timing is off or something is wrong with the fuel
system.  Here's how it SHOULD be.  You ought to have a little puff of
smoke, any color, immediately on startup, evident with biodiesel or #2,
and she will smoke grey/blue until she's warm(180-200*F) after that, you
should have NO smoke at idle and only some black smoke under hard
acceleration, like around shift pointsd or at WOT.  Mine idles and drives
around town with no smoke at all except under hard acceleration, when cold
or after a long idle.  I'd highly recommend you visit this website:
forums.thedieselstop.com  These guys are teh Ford Diesel experts.  I'm
just learning.  We also have our own dedicated biodiesel and alternative
fuels forum.  Good luck,
J.D.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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Re: [biofuel] stanadyne pump compatability

[kline]

> Ok, here is my dilema, I am researching wether to convert my 1985
> Chevy Blazer 6.2 to burn alternative fuels such as biodiesel, SVO and
> WVO. I have learned alot about the fuels, processes and the
> equipment, but ran into a snag about the viability of my vehicle for
> this project. Below you will find a couple short excerpt taken from
> different sources which have widely differing opinions on whether my
> vehicle is a good candidate for this transformation. Please read..
>
> PRO OPINION:
> These motors are solid and reliable (when maintained) to well over
> 300,000 miles. As with any motor during the course of its
> implementation, bugs are identified (injection pump for example) and
> corrected. One must remember that these problems are not at the sole
> or exclusive fault of GM. The Stanadyne DB2 injection pump has
> undergone several improvements during its use, and reliability has
> increased.
>
> Some notable pluses about the 6.2L Detroit diesel:
>
> It is the least expensive diesel to rebuild or replace.
> It features the least expensive injector pump to rebuild or replace.
> It is the least expensive diesel oil change.
> They are known for excellent fuel economy.
> It is the easiest to convert to SVO or Bio-diesel.
> It produces the largest gains from aftermarket upgrades
>
> CON OPINION:
> 2We do not suggest the conversion of engines equipped with
> distributor-type injection pumps manufactured by DELPHI, LUCAS, CAV,
> Stanadyne and Roto-Diesel.
>
> Best I can tell the pump in my vehicle is a "distributor type"
> Stanadyne pump. If I am wrong on that point, someone please correct
> me! Thanks for any info or especially experiences if anyone is
> already burning these fuels using a motor and pump similar to mine,
> thanks again!!!
> Problem with this injection pump, its not as sturdy as the Bosch inline
pumps that a lot of these biofuelers with Mercedes and VW diesels are
familiar with.  They have a lot opf wear parts that are far from heavy
duty.  Our Ford 6.9 and 7.3 IDIs have the same DB2 pump,  except it
turns the opposite way in the IH/Ford diesels as Chevy/Detroits.  That
said, we have a few folks over at the Diesel Stop running WVO/SVO in 7.3
and 6.9 IDIs.  Some of them have a lot of miles, but will the pumps
last?  At worst, your're risking a $300 injection pump.  Although I like
IH diesels myself, I will say that the 6.2 Detroit is a tough engine and
will give you many trouble free miles if you keep up on the maintenance.
 I woukd make and run biodiesel myself, since this is already an iffy
pump and WVO is not tried and true with them.  Luck,
J.D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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>
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RE: [biofuel] f-250 conversion/diesel engine biofuel primer

[kline]

> Thank you thats a start. what about m.p.g.does that stay the same also it
> seems to me that running on svo or wvo would be better then running bd,but
> it seems a high number are running on bd.Why?
>   -Original Message-
>   From: Kenneth Kron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:40 AM
>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: Re: [biofuel] f-250 conversion/diesel engine biofuel primer
> Hey, your '97 is a Poerstroke Diesel, the same as an International
T444E.  It features direct fuel injection and is electronically
controlled.  Because it is DI and electronic, I would recommend that you
use biodiesel.  The fuel has to be very finely atomized to work in a DI.
 That said, there is a lot of interest in SVO over at the Diesel Stop,
and a couple of guys are running SVO in 7.3 PSD engines.  I'd not be
convinced that it will work as well as diesel or biodiesel until they
have hundreds of thousands of veggie miles with no unusual fuel related
problems.  The injectors are probably the most likely component to be
damaged, and they are not cheap to fix.  If you're up for taking a
chance go for it, but for goodness sakes, do it right.  ALways preheat
the oil and start and stop on petrodiesel or biodiesel.  Probably
wouldn't be a bad idea to invesst in a greasel or similar conversion.
Good luck,
J.D.
>
> SVO - Straight Vegetable oil - "virgin" or unused vegetable oil.
>   WVO - Waste Vegetable oil - Oil that has been used to fry food.
>   Biodiesel - A renewable fuel made from fatty acids (oils).
>
>   Biofuel pros svo, wvo are reasonably equiv. to BD for this list with two
>   exceptions:
>   1) there has been alot more testing done specifically on biodiesel
>   2) While the diesel engine was invented to be run on vegetable oil it,
>   WVO i snot equivalent to straight peanut oil.
>
>   * Biodiesel use increase international stability as opposed to
> decreasing it as petro fuel does.
>   * Biodiesel use reduces the risk of fuel transportation disasters as
> it requires less transport and is significantly less toxic.
>   * Biodiesel is less expensive than petrodiesel to deliver to
> American markets
>   * Biodiesel use along with conservation is the cost effective way to
> immediately reduce our dependence on middle east oil
>   * Biodiesel combustion produces over 60% fewer pollutants than
> petrodiesel, over 90% fewer carcinogens and is not a net green
> house gas contributor.
>   * Biodiesel removes an entire class of acid rain producing smog from
> diesel exhaust
>   * Biodiesel when used as a petroleum diesel additive at rates of
> between 5% & 20% is already an accepted product in the petroleum
> diesel market-place
>   * According to some estimates the US can produce enough biodiesel to
> meet more than 20% of it's fuel needs and all of it's current
> diesel fuel needs
>   * Biodiesel production is less dangerous than petroleum fuel
> production
>   * Biodiesel production creates almost no pollution
>   * Biodiesel from WVO has a higher lubricity and cetane rating than
> petrodiesel and is otherwise comparable or superior in performance
> when used in diesel engines
>   * Biodiesel production from WVO reduces demands on landfills
>   * Biodiesel exhaust actually has a pleasant aroma
>   * Biodiesel is 1/10th as toxic as table salt and biodegrades like
> dextrose with up to 98% biodegredation in 3 weeks
>   * Biodiesel is one of the most cost effective ways to reduce exhaust
> pollution from smaller and inexpensive engines
>
>
>   Depending on your engine, climate and who you ask, SVO/WVO can be mixed
>   with diesel (petro or bio).
>   SVO/WVO kits cost between $600-$1200+, pay the upfront costs, take
>   additional risks on warranty coverage, mostly because the hardware
>   changes advertise that you did something interesting and get a payback
>   rate dependent on how much fuel you use.
>
>   Biofuel cons:
>
>   * People will look at you strangely and say your vehicle smells
> nice.
>   * People who love the smell of burning petro will say somethings
> wrong with your truck.
>   * The US engine manufacturers association says they don't warranty
> biodiesel or VO even though they don't warranty any other fuel
> either and in the California at least the burden of proof is on
> the warranty provider to show that the users action caused the
> damage.
>   * Crown Prince* *Abdullah, OPEC and the Bush clan will suffer a
> minute decrease in their net worth if every day 100 people switch
> from petro fuels to biofuels.
>
>   See
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=diesel+vegetable+
> oil+conversion+kits&btnG=Search
>   for most of the manufacturers of VO kits.  VO kits are sensitive to oil
>   quality as they

Re: [biofuel] Re: stanadyne pump compatability

[kline]

> Those pumps die anyway. Biodiesel isn't a problem with them. The
> Diesel Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne,
> Denso, Bosch) still make cautious noises about biodiesel but they're
> supportive nonetheless. They insist on standard-spec fuel at minimum,
> but it's easy to make standard-spec biodiesel or better. Here's their
> statement on biodiesel quality:
> Summary -- html
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html
> Full document -- Acrobat file, 104kb
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/FIEM.pdf
>
> For SVO/WVO the same reservations apply to Stanadyne pumps as to
> Lucas-CAV - rotary pumps, not good.
>
> Elsbett says: "We do not suggest to modify engines equipped with
> distributor-type
> injection pumps manufactured by Delphi, Lucas, CAV, Stanadyne and
> Roto-Diesel."
>
> There's more about this at Darren Hill's site:
> http://www.vegburner.co.uk/suitability.htm
> Vegburner
>
> Meanwhile there've been furious denials from Greasel and probably
> others - nothing wrong with rotary pumps and SVO, they say, it's just
> "rumors", "misinformation". Ho-hum.
>
> Ed Beggs of Neoteric reported an initial failure (old pump) and no
> problems with the rebuilt replacement: "Starting into a project with
> an old highly worn pump - well, sure,
> anything can happen... these pumps fail daily to begin with, on
> diesel fuel... Throw in some inferior WVO that should have been made
> into biodiesel, and you are adding to the potential for problems,
> IMO. On the other hand, with a good pump in good shape, and good WVO
> or SVO, well heated and free of water and contaminants.. no problems."
>
> Others agree with that, though it's also said that the Stanadyne
> pumps can't take too much heat either, maybe 180 deg F max. Not too
> little, not too much.
>
> It's the same with the Lucas - it can be done but it has to be done
> well, and there's still a shortage of long-term results, there are
> some, but not enough.
>
> Once again, it's the difference between biodiesel and SVO. Biodiesel
> - any diesel will do. SVO - maybe any diesel, but there's a lot more
> to consider, if you're just going to chuck it in and go then be
> prepared for problems.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>to elaborate on that a little (since I own one of these vehicles)
>>
>>Elsbett has recommended not converting vehicles equipped with
>>Stanodyne pumps to SVO. (this came from Aleksander Noack
>>directly, not sure if it's on their website or not)
>>
>>we had a LOT of failures (ie 7 or 8 now?) with these pumps (on
>>Fords and Chevy trucks) in the Bay Area on SVO, none on
>>biodiesel. Of course lots of other people have also run them
>>successfully on SVO, again, no pump failures reported anywhere
>>on biodiesel.
>>
>> It looks like the failures in our area were mostly on vehicles
>>which weren't getting sufficient heating on the WVO side. These
>>folks mostly ran homemade or experimental conversions, and
>>the failures (sized pump) occured quite early in the conversion's
>>life. The several of these cases that I looked into, didn't do
>>adequate temperature monitoring , so it is possible that the
>>temps weren't up to par. In any case it seems a strong case to
>>be extra careful with SVO in these vehicles.
>>
>>One of them seized his pump and then seized the newly rebuilt
>>replacement almost immediately. When he called the rebuild
>>company about it the second time, they asked if he was using
>>biodiesel- they'd apparently gotten a few back from various
>>people already. I imagine that the SVO'ers who were trying to get
>>the company to accept their seized pumps as cores were
>>probably doing what my friends did- and probably weren't quite
>>straight with the co. as to what fuel they were using, and had
>>probably told that company it was biodiesel (since that sounds
>>less bad than hacking into your fuel system, from a fuel injection
>>equipment manufacturers' perspective.
>>
>>
>>--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>wrote:
>> > Not recommended for SVO/WVO use, fine with biodiesel.
>> >
>> > Best
>> >
>> > Keith
>> >
>> >
>> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Best I can tell the pump in my vehicle is a "distributor type"
>> > > > Stanadyne pump. If I am wrong on that point, someone
>>please correct
>> > > > me!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >From what I remember, the fuel injector pump on the 5.7,
>>6.2 and 6.5
>> > >is a Roosa Master.  I don't know why distributor type fuel
>>injection
>> > >pumps would have problems on biodiesel, though I imagine
>>the close
>> > >tolerances of such a device might cause problems with WVO
>>after it had
>> > >cooled down.  But that would simply entail running biodiesel
>>or standard
>> > >diesel through the pump for a few moments to clean out the
>>hot WVO
>> > >before shutting down, would it not?
>> > >
>> > >Once, when I was seriously looking at a 6.5 turbo diesel, I
>> > >contacted Ed Beggs about a SVO conversion for that engine.
>>He

[biofuel] Bio-D in a wick lamp-safe for use in teh house??

[kline]

I was hoping someone could settle a disagreement my brother and I are
having.  In preparation for Hurricane Charley, I broke out the wick lamp
and first off started with biodiesel.  As Keith says on his website, it is
hard to get top travel up the wick, but I was able to soak the wick enough
to get it to light and it burned great.  Because my brother is afraid of
burning it in the house, I switched to kerosene and now he'ss aying teh
whole system is contaminated.  So I have 2 questions.  First, if I burn
biodiesel in a wick lamp like this, am I risking CO poisoning or any other
noxious fumes?  Second, if for some reason it is mixed with kero, does it
become more toxic than either chemical alone.  Thanks-
J.D.



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Re: [biofuel] GMC Diesel

[kline]

> I am concidering the purchase of a 1983 GMC Suburban Diesel. I'm not
> excactly sure of the motor but I think it's a 5L. Has anyone had any
> experiance with these running on biofuel. I have read that the best
> motors to run bio are the indirect injection versions. I know the
> Ford powerstroke is one but I'm not sure about the Chevy/GMC of this
> vintage. What about the newer Chevy/GMC turbo diesels or the Cummins
> engine they put in the Dodge trucks? My next truck purchase will be a
> diesel I just want to get the best engine I can for use with biofuel.
> Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated
>
> Hey, that engien is pretty frugalon fuel, especially compared with the
350 and 454 gas guzzler versions of Chevy V8s.  Its a 6.2L diesel, made
by Detroit.  A solid engine, kind of doggy by todays standards, and it
is an IDI, it will run well on decent biodiesel.  It might have touble
with SVO(or not, there's still a lot of debate about that).  The weak
link is taht liek older Ford?international IDIs, they run a Stanadyne
distributor/rotary type pump.  To put it bluntly, these injection pumps
are not very good, but teh upside is, they are only 200-400USD plus a
rebuildable core to replace.  Injectors run something like 20-30 apiece.
 The pump failures are really not related to biodiesel, it just works
very hard and doesn't live near as long as the Bosch type inline pumps
in Mercedes and Cummins engines, but these pumps are hugely expensive to
replace(like 1000 or more).  SO its a tradeoff, longevity versus economy
of replacement.  Also, these rotary pumps aren't too awfully hard to
rtepalce.  if you're eevn a little handy and you follow the directions
you cna do it!  The 6.2 is a pretty solid and I think underrated engine.
 It can also be made more powerful with a turbocharger probably.  Like
all older diesels, these things like to eat glowplugs, but there are
ways around this and in jany event, glow plugs arer relatively
inexpensive.  If you like teh vehicle, but it, I think you'll be happy
with it. That is if it appears to be in ghood shape.  You want todo the
standard ispection, it should not have a lot of oil leaks(it will ahve
some!) Beware of antifreeze leaks.  they may be seroius or minor.  If
they are coming from teh heads or the block, you might wnat to walk away
from it.  If its just hoses or accessories, it should be an easy fix. 
The vehicle should start within a couple of turns once teh glowplugs
have cycled.  You should remove the oil filler cap while its running. 
You'll robably see a stream of white mist coming out.  this is normal,
but it should be simmering out fairly gently likea teaketle, not puffing
aggressively liek a locomotive.  It should also vent evenly, not puffing
to the tune ofg one or more cylinders.  One littel puff for each one is
the norm.  The exhaust smoke should be minimal once the engine has
started.  Black smoke on hard acceleration on fossil fuel especially is
normal, so is some white smoke at startup.  Blue smoke may or may not be
serious.  It could be unburnt fuel or a sign of oil burning.  If you're
not sure which it is, it might be best to walk away.  WHen you are
looking for an IDI, look at the Chevy 6.2 and 6.5 diesels(before 2000 I
think) Ford/IH 6.9 and 7.3 diesels(1983-1994-not Powerstrokes).  The
Powerstorke does run wqell on biodiesel though as do the other new
diesels.  But a PSD is a direct injected diesel-computer controlled. 
Good luck.  Keep us posted.  If you are internet active, finda website
dedicated to teh type opfvehicle you purchase.  That's where I learned
most of what I know about diesel engines.
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel vs Gasoline Emissions per mi

[kline]

> Hello,
>
> Excuse my ignorance, but I've heard something recently that I need
> clarification on...
>
> Biodiesel is cleaner than diesel, but is it cleaner than reformulated
> gasoline? (CO, NOx, PM, and HC)  I'm talking tailpipe emissions only,
> cause full life-cycle emissions obviously shows biofuel to be cleaner.
> The increased fuel efficiency of diesel engines surely will throw this
> thing wide open to debate, so a grams per mile basis seems appropriate.
>
> There was a thread going on this earlier this month that seemed
> unresolved. To respond to part of that thread, I've also heard of
> people running E85 in their new Prius Hybrids (without conversion,
> they must have a high compression, maybe 13:1). Anyone have more
> information on this?
>
> Dave Shaw
>
> Dave, I think it has been conclusively proven that in a one to one
comparison, even #2 diesel is cleaner than gasoline with respect to CO,
and hydrocarbon emissions.  Biodiesel removes 100% of diesels sulfur and
a great deal of its soot, reducing black smoke and particulate
emissions.  The reformulated gas is probably cleaner in terms of NOx,
almost certainly, but I'm sure you're aware of the debate on whether or
not NOx is really that harmful.  Of course it does cause smog in
combination with sunlight, and high VOCs, but many people feel
controlling VOCs is the better way to decrease smog and improve air
quality.  Some studies eevn suggest that smog will increase when NOx
decreases unless there is a corresponding drop in VOCs.  I really don't
have the answers, but I still think the diesel will come out cleaner on
most important measures especially with biodiesel or ULSD (like they
have in Europe). On the particulate issue, that may be a problem, but
some say that even gas engines release particulate matter, just a
smaller finer particle.  Others say that diesels are too dirty just
because of the particulate emissions issue, that they can cause illness.
 It hasn't been proven to my satisfaction, but to others, it most
certainly has.  Hope it is a lively yet civil debate,
J.D.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel vs Gasoline Emissions per mi

[kline]

> Hi J.D.
>
> Lively, civil and more! I'd love to see or hear of any specific
> studies you've come across. Searching the internet yields mostly
> articles about how, though clean-diesel has washed away some of the
> dirty-diesel blues, diesel is still dirtier than gasoline. I'm not
> stopping there though. Most of the works cite research done by Prof.
> Jacobson from Stanford. (Sounds like it could be a case of having one
> researcher's findings spread like a rumor, giving something a bad
> name... like David Pimentel and ethanol production efficiency.)
>
> - Dave
> Dave, to tell the truth, I'll admit that I have been too intellectually
lazy to actually dig for this too much.  I am surprised that Keith
hasn't added his 2 bits here.  IIRC, his position is that a catalytic
converter will fix the problem of high NOx emissions.  The reason this
solution has not been used in the US too much is that #2 still has too
much sulfur for these things and quickly ruins them, but biodiesel and
ULSD  will work with a Cat.  I'm not sure about the particulates, but I
have heard a lot about particulate traps.  I do have a concern for the
engine and especially for performance with cats and traps, and I could
be wrong about this, but I'm concerned that the backpressure from these
things might make the exhaust much too restrictive.  IME it already is
on most consumer diesels.  Hope someone will add something more useful,
J.D.
>
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > Excuse my ignorance, but I've heard something recently that I need
>> > clarification on...
>> >
>> > Biodiesel is cleaner than diesel, but is it cleaner than reformulated
>> > gasoline? (CO, NOx, PM, and HC)  I'm talking tailpipe emissions only,
>> > cause full life-cycle emissions obviously shows biofuel to be cleaner.
>> > The increased fuel efficiency of diesel engines surely will throw this
>> > thing wide open to debate, so a grams per mile basis seems
> appropriate.
>> >
>> > There was a thread going on this earlier this month that seemed
>> > unresolved. To respond to part of that thread, I've also heard of
>> > people running E85 in their new Prius Hybrids (without conversion,
>> > they must have a high compression, maybe 13:1). Anyone have more
>> > information on this?
>> >
>> > Dave Shaw
>> >
>> > Dave, I think it has been conclusively proven that in a one to one
>> comparison, even #2 diesel is cleaner than gasoline with respect to CO,
>> and hydrocarbon emissions.  Biodiesel removes 100% of diesels sulfur and
>> a great deal of its soot, reducing black smoke and particulate
>> emissions.  The reformulated gas is probably cleaner in terms of NOx,
>> almost certainly, but I'm sure you're aware of the debate on whether or
>> not NOx is really that harmful.  Of course it does cause smog in
>> combination with sunlight, and high VOCs, but many people feel
>> controlling VOCs is the better way to decrease smog and improve air
>> quality.  Some studies eevn suggest that smog will increase when NOx
>> decreases unless there is a corresponding drop in VOCs.  I really don't
>> have the answers, but I still think the diesel will come out cleaner on
>> most important measures especially with biodiesel or ULSD (like they
>> have in Europe). On the particulate issue, that may be a problem, but
>> some say that even gas engines release particulate matter, just a
>> smaller finer particle.  Others say that diesels are too dirty just
>> because of the particulate emissions issue, that they can cause illness.
>>  It hasn't been proven to my satisfaction, but to others, it most
>> certainly has.  Hope it is a lively yet civil debate,
>> J.D.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>> >
>> > Biofuels list archives:
>> > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel vs Gasoline Emissions per mi

[kline]

> Lurch,
> Lurch,
He was using E85 not B85.  I don't know what that much ethanol would do to
a gas engine.  You are right about biodiesel at those percentages being
used in a gas engine.  In response to some discussions here about using
biodiesel as an internal solvent for gas engines and as a 2-stroke lube, I
have used justa very small amount in my 2-cycle mix for my chainsaw and
weedeater.  Let me say it ain't pretty, lots of smoke, detonation, and it
won't stay running ubnless you adjust the carb.  It DOES clean out that
carb, and as soon as you switch back back to 2cycle mix, cleaner, less
smoky than even new!,
J.D.
>> And now for a simple question. If the MG and DG are forming emulsion
> during the wash cycle, if the emulsion is drained off wouldn't that leave
> behind fuel that had MG and DG removed and hence better quality fuel?
>
> Perhaps a fair theory, but there would still be an unquantified amount of
> mono- and di-glycerides exterior to the emulsion.
>
> If it's better quality fuel that a home-brewer is shooting for, trying to
> rinse out the unconverted glycerides is not the best option. Striving for
> reaction completion makes better use of resources - chemical, time, fuel
> and
> financial - not to mention reduces waste.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel vs Gasoline Emissions per mi
>
>
>> There is no way a gasoline engine can run B85 as the octane rating of
> biodiesel or regular diesel is very very low. The resulting predetonation
> would ruin the engine almost instantly. If the compression ratio was 13:1
> it
> wouldn't run on any fuel found at local pumps. It is important that no one
> try this and ruin their hybrid!
>>
>> And now for a simple question. If the MG and DG are forming emulsion
> during the wash cycle, if the emulsion is drained off wouldn't that leave
> behind fuel that had MG and DG removed and hence better quality fuel?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for the input
>> Lurch
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Diesel and biodeisel

[kline]

> I'm looking to purchase a new(or newer Jeep) in the near future.
> I've seen that Jeep is now coming out with a new diesel version of
> the Liberty.
> My co-worker said that diesel car produce more pollution then
> regular gasoline vechiles. I thought it was opposite, which is true?
> Also, I live in an urban area and would like to eventually wean off
> gas and into biodiesel. Are biodiesel sources in urban areas
> (particularly in the DC metro area) readily available?
>
> Hey welcome to teh list!
Diesel cars pollute less in terms of greenhouse gases, VOCs and CO
emmissions.  They produce more NOx and PM pollutants.  The choice is yours
which is the bigger threast.  I'm convinced its the VOCs and greenhouse
gases.  To answer your question about biodiesel...you cna run the new
diesels oin it and it may or may not be readily available in DC.  Here's a
place to look and see if you ahve a public pump www.biodiesel.org Sorry
can't make it hot.  Certainly don't believe everything tehy tell you but
its a start.  Either way, it'll be expensive unless you brew your own,
which is certainly not as hard as it sounds.  If you follow the directions
on JTF you should be able to make good biodiesel.  Think the new diesel
Libby will get 24-28MPG, but that's just a  WAG.
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Source for rapeseed SVO

[kline]

> Anyone can buy rapeseed oil at the supermarket just for playing around,
but for bigger quantities I haven't a clue.  Diesels like it pretty good
though.  I use just 1-2 quarts with #2 and it gives me that "bio" smell
and improves fuel mileage, also enough tp plug my fuel filter.  Wish it
was available for $1 gallon or less.  It would be good fuel for SVO
systems I think.
J.D.
> Does anyone have a good source for rapeseed oil preferably in the
> Northwest. Thanks Scott
>
>
>
>
>
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[biofuel] Plastic oil drum for "Simple 5 gallon processor"

[kline]

Can I use a plastic 5 gallon oil drum for the"Simple 5 gallon processor"
on the JTF website?  I think Keith had in mind a metal drum, but metal oil
drums in that size are few and far between around these parts.
Thanks, J.D.


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Plastic oil drum for "Simple 5 gallon processor"

[kline]

> I made fuel this way, in plastic buckets, for hundreds of gallons
> and thousands of miles. Just make sure there's a good lid
> between any sparks from the drill and the bucket full of
> methanol-containing biodiesel.
>
> I heated oil on the stove (kitchen stove or a propane camp stove)
> in a 5-gallon canning pot (in the US the black enamalled canning
> kettles are that size or sometimes a bit bigger). It took about 15
> minutes to heat oil to 125F, and I agitated that batch for 15
> minutes in the bucket while heating the next 5 gallons of oil on
> the indoor stove. It meant that in a little over one hour of work I
> could make 15-20 gallons of fuel, enough to wash all at once in
> a bigger container (at one point I had a 15gallon conical tank
> from a sandblaster actually) and enough to fill my VW's 15-gallon
> tank. Considering all the equipment was free, it was a good
> tradeoff (slightly labor-intensive but equipment-unintensive) that
> kept me from having to spend anything on a bigger processor for
> a good year and a half. Then I built a stirred-tank processor out
> of a drum, a washing machine motor, and some pulleys and
> bearings- $50.  Now I use a $150  water heater -based
> processor and it's cousin Tankenstein, both of which are
> detailed at www.veggieavenger.com/media
>
>
> The fires which happened in plastic processors were in our area
> in Northern California, happened multiple times, and involved a
> 'ready-made' plastic conical processor design which used a
> heating element threaded into plastic PVC fitting in the bottom of
> the cone. If I were to use plastic for a processor I'd definitely at
> least heat in another container.
>
> mark
>
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> Hello J.D.
>>
>> >Can I use a plastic 5 gallon oil drum for the"Simple 5 gallon
> processor"
>> >on the JTF website?  I think Keith had in mind a metal drum,
> but metal oil
>> >drums in that size are few and far between around these
> parts.
>> >Thanks, J.D.
>>
>> Yes, they're metal. Mark also said metal drums are rare in the
> US, to
>> my surprise, I've always had them everywhere else I've been.
> She
>> seemed to have used metal buckets, but without the ridge in
> these
>> drums, and I don't know what she did for a lid. Maybe she'll tell
> us.
>> Another list member uses wooden lids, with a sheet of plastic
>> underneath, uses silicon to stick split silicon hose round the
> rim of
>> the processor and holds the lid down with toggle latches
> fastened
>> with pop rivets.
>>
>> Anyway, it does say: "There's no need to follow this prescription
>> exactly -- use what's to hand, improvise." There have been fires
>> reported with plastic processors with heating elements. But I
> know
>> someone who's been using a home-built plastic processor for
> a couple
>> of years and never had any trouble. His is more like a big
> carboy, 10
>> gallons, two lids. He uses a washing machine pump (laundry
> machine)
>> and a washing machine heating element, epoxied in place,
> and fitted a
>> bottom drain the same way. It's simple, it works fine. Go ahead
> and
>> try.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Keith
>
> Yes, as soon as I get a chance I will fix up a test batch or two.  I was
mainly concerned about the fumes from methanol. The processor would
mostly eliminate this concern.  The truck is just about ready to go.
Thank you, J.D.
>
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Re: [biofuel] BD as anti wear and smog for 4 stroke gasoline engine

[kline]

> Hi to all
>
> Iâm please to inform our group about BD blend with gasoline fuel to
> power the 4 stroke gasoline engine. My company that I worked with has a
> fleet of service cars most of them are Japanese brand Nissan, Toyota,
> and Honda. As I park in parking area it happened by chance to talk to
> our company drivers regarding BD advantages as a proof of my claim my
> Toyota Revo run on BD100. On a course of our discussion I tried to
> convince one of the drivers to try BD on gasoline engine at 200 - 300 ml
> of BD to 50 liters of gasoline mixed together in fuel tank. We choose
> Nissan Cefiro because it emitted foul odor of unburned hydrocarbon
> irritating to the eyes and nose during engine warm up and idling. I
> poured 200 ml of BD into the tank shake the body for a while and start
> the engine after 5 to 7 minutes of idling speed, the exhaust odor
> improved dramatically and at the end of the day of driving the odor of
> unburned hydrocarbon was gone and engine furred better than before
> because BD lubricate the fuel system, the upper combustion chamber, as
> well as the valve port. Because of this other drivers tried in Honda car
> immediate result no more odor of unburned hydrocarbon and visible trace
> of water condensation at exhaust tail pipe as if the car was new.
>
> I tried to use BD as anti wear additives for four stroke gasoline engine
> for motorcycle the result was the same.
>
> Last Monday I talked to my friend who happens to be owned a surplus and
> modified service car; it was a gasoline engine a Toyota (surplus engine
> from Japan). His service car was due to yearly renewal of LTO
> registration, he had a problem because his old car smoke badly and one
> of the requirement on LTO registration is to subject his car to emission
> test center. The cars shall pass the Emission standard set by the
> government before renewal of LTO registration. I challenge him to try BD
> as fuel additives to his service car without any engine modification,
> change oil, cleaning of air filter except cleaning of exhaust pipe by
> water hose to remove carbon particle clinging to pipe wall. Subject the
> service car to emission test and the result is very promising
>
> Emission Standard
> CO % (V)   :   3.5
> HC  (ppm)   :   600
> Running condition gradual increase of rpm
>
> Gas analyzer final result of service car were the following
> CO %  :   1.25
> HC  (ppm):   278
> PASSED
>
> BD as anti wear and smog additive for gasoline fuel is very encouraging
> because four stroke engine has weak point on lubrication of upper
> chamber of cylinder, valve seat & port, and fuel system in case of fuel
> injection all of these parts need lubrication, gasoline had a thin
> mixture of hydrocarbon oil to lubricate these parts but it is not enough
> to do the job but with BD added lubrication is ensured to protect these
> parts. Plus the fact that BD is 11 % oxygen, it helps to achieve good
> combustion and reduced aromatic odor of unburned hydrocarbon.
>
> That all and thanks for the opportunity to post my messages
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Franklin Del Rosario
> I would only be concerned that it would cause the same effect as burning
2-cycle oil in a 4-stroke engine, namely, over a period of time, cause
carbon buildup on the rings and sidewalls leading to scuffing, sticking,
and maybe eventually scoring and engine failure, but certainly to poor
engine performance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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[biofuel] effects of using BD without retarding the pump

[kline]

What would happen if you wanted to retain the pump setting used for
petrodiesel so you could use it if you ahd to and not have the timing too
far retarded.  Will this cause the diesel engine to produce massive
amounts of pollution and/or unmanageable EGTs?  If not, are there any
other downsides to leaving the pump in its dynamic timing for #2?  Thanks,
J.D.


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Re: [biofuel] effects of using BD without retarding the pump

[kline]

>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>> What would happen if you wanted to retain the pump setting used for
>> petrodiesel so you could use it if you ahd to and not have the timing
>> too
>> far retarded.  Will this cause the diesel engine to produce massive
>> amounts of pollution and/or unmanageable EGTs?  If not, are there any
>> other downsides to leaving the pump in its dynamic timing for #2?
>> Thanks,
>> J.D.
>
> J.D.  from what I have observed very few people change the timing on their
> diesels when using BD.
> My Hilux is a smokey runner on petroleum diesel but with biodiesel or
> strong
> BD/petro mixes the exhaust cleans up nicely.
> There is reportedly a slight drop in power when using BD, but my vehicle
> seems to run better. This might be because there is a lot of fat in the
> oil
> I use to make BD which results in a high cetane number fuel. It certainly
> quietens the "diesel knock"
> regards,
> Paul Gobert
>
> I'm running a 1986 Ford F250.  She doesn't smoke excessively most of the
time.  I need a new injection pump, and the resultant poor timing has
caused more of the grey-white smoke at startup and at high rpms.  I used
some bio in the fall, and the truck seemed to run smoother and quiter. 
It still ahd that diesel rattle that I love, but it got rid of most of
the funny noises.  Thjanks for the advice.
J.D.
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel from Ward Oil, Tampa

[kline]

> Alan: two tank will allow this, just use diesel for start/stop fuel. A
> quick switch back to diesel and you will be able to engage the main
> safety feature of all two-tank systems: the
>   Back-off  A*&hole Closefollower Or Face Fumigation(BACOFF) system.
>
> No need to sacrifice that valuable OEM feature. This feature alone,
> fitted to all older, slower diesels by the clever engineers at the
> factory, has saved countless millions in damage to front ends of little
> fast moving gassers that may have otherwise suffered severe damage if
> diesel drivers (of 240D's in particular) had to resort to the secondary
> feature, the MMBB system (Meet My Mercedes Bumper), a braking system
> with infinitely adjustable driver input function.
>
> Timely engagement of the BACOFF system is also a great opportunity to
> double up for added benefit, and  do those ITU's (Italian Tune Ups)!
>
> A little known option, by the way, for the 240D, was really a great
> fuel-saver in it's day. The already-sturdy steel bumpers of the MMBB
> could be replaced with optional recycled 2"x12" finished Oak boards,
> complete with a stainless steel plate that read:
>
> "DO PUSH!!"
>
> This was especially useful in mountainous regions populated by heavily
> loaded logging trucks, and if revived, could inspire a while new
> generation's worth of peace and cooperation between loggers and
> treehuggers, although some of the logging truck drivers have been known
> to carry it a little too far, using it on downhill runs...
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 09:20 AM, Alan Petrillo wrote:
>
>> When I learned that Ward Oil in Tampa, Florida was carying biodiesel
>> "for a few cents more than regular diesel" I went down there and bought
>> some.  It was only a couple of miles out of my way, so what the heck.
>>
>> The general press' idea of "a few cents" is $1.07, aparently.  The
>> stuff
>> was $2.55/gallon, but I filled up on it anyway.  Putting one's money
>> where one's mouth is, and all that.  If I don't choke on the price
>> it'll
>> make a good stopgap measure until I can complete my vegoil conversion.
>>
>> So far, I find it has a couple of advantages, and a minor disadvantage.
>>
>> One advantage is that it runs more smoothly in my engine.
>>
>> A big advantage is that it doesn't smoke as much, so I don't get a
>> sooty
>> black cloud of exhaust on accelleration anymore.
>>
>> A disadvantage is that it doesn't smoke as much, so I can't discourage
>> tailgaters by putting my right foot down and blowing out a big sooty
>> black cloud anymore.  ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> AP
>>
>>
>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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>> http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
>>
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>>
>>I know a local guy here in Gainesville that buys all his Bio-D from
Ward.  Apparently, if you work with them, they will cut you a better
deal.  This means buying 50 or more gallons at a time.  This guy must be
realy committed to no fossil fuel, because he continually drives the 114
miles to replenish his stock and uses it in both his and his wife, and I
think his daughter's car as well.  They run VW diesels, and are getting
approximately 45-50 mpg, so the 2.55/gal doesn't hurt them as bad as it
would me, since my trcuk only gets 12-18mpg.  I plan to make my own as
soon as I get all of the fuel system gremlins fixed.  I cannot afford
the commercial stuff.
Best Regards,
J.D.
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] What are you playing at the pump for dino?

[kline]

>
>
> Here in British Columbia, the current diesel price varies widely
> from location to location.  In Sardis, where I live, diesel is currently
> running at 64 cents per liter.  In Abbotsford, 30 kilometers to the west
> (the place where I work, my children attend school, and where we go to
> church) diesel  is selling for 62 cents per liter.  In Langley, the next
> town, folks are paying 72 cents per liter.  These prices are in Canadian
> dollars.
>
> Across the line, in Blaine, Washington, we saw diesel for $1.60 per
> gallon last weekend.  That would, of course, be the price in American
> dollars.
> Robert,
The last time I filled up was in Yankeetown, FL and I paid $1.599 for
dino.  I've seen it as high as 1.75 and more and at least as low as 1.559.
 Same deal as you in Canada with the wide variation.  I hope to soon be
able to start a bio-D project and forget about the oil companies an their
thievery though.
>
> robert luis rabello
> "The Edge of Justice"
> Adventure for Your Mind
> http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782
>
>
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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>



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[biofuel] Need epoxy coated(food grade) steel drum for Bio-D processor??

[kline]

Today I was at the local hazardous waste recycling center 
and noticed that
there were many 55 gal. steel drums free for the asking.  I told the guy
what I was planning on doing with it and he said that for biodiesel I
would need an epoxy coated drum, like a food grade drum or eith HDPE in
order to avoid the risk of oxidation since these drums have bare metal
walls.  Is he right, or does he not know enough about bio?  Thanks!
J.D.


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Re: [biofuel] Need epoxy coated(food grade) steel drum for Bio-Dprocessor??

[kline]

>Maud,
IHave you ever noticed how most small diesel fuel pumps have filter/water
separators inline?  This sort of setup is also recommended for biodiesel. 
I'm wondering if a good fuel filter/seaparator would eliminate any concern
over rust contamination etc.
J.D. Speaking of rusty drums, I have scavenged several and they seem to be
> slightly pre-rusted on the interior. I know I don't want to put iron
> oxide into my fuel system. Is there an effective way to remove this
> rust or render it inert so I can still use the drums?
>
> Maud
> St. Louis, Missouri
>
>>Biodiesel and WVO do not corrode bare steel. However, WVO may have a
>> large
>>percentage of water that will settle to the bottom of the drum, and
>>to a limited
>>extent will cause rusting. This is limited by the lack of large amounts
>> of
>>air since it will be sealed off by the oil layer, but over time can lead
>> to
>>rusting. If you have clean oil or biodiesel, it will not appreciably
>>rust. And,
>>hey, the price is right.
>>
>>Tom Leue
>>
>>In a message dated 1/21/04 1:21:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>
>>
>>>  Today I was at the local hazardous waste recycling center and noticed
>>> that
>>>  there were many 55 gal. steel drums free for the asking.  I told the
>>> guy
>>>  what I was planning on doing with it and he said that for biodiesel I
>>>  would need an epoxy coated drum, like a food grade drum or eith HDPE
>>> in
>>>  order to avoid the risk of oxidation since these drums have bare metal
>>>  walls.  Is he right, or does he not know enough about bio?  Thanks!
>>>  J.D.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-
>>Homestead Inc.
>>www.yellowbiodiesel.com
>>
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
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>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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Re: [biofuel] FIRST WASHED BATCH

[kline]

> Hi all,
>
> Got my first washed batch done.  (I think)  The ph level is about 5.4 I
> don't
> think that is right.  What do I do?  It looks great a nice golden brown
> kinda
> like honey.  Very clear.  I think it looks good.  But then it is my first
> batch.  What is the thoughts of the list?
>
> Rick M
> Brownstown, Mi.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> I really don't know what the procedure is, butr that's pretty strongly
acidic. It will eat your fuel system.  Hopefully someone who knows more
than me will get in on this, but if it washed out clear, it looks like
you done good with a fairly compete reaction.  Congrats,
J.D.
>
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