Re: [biofuel] Source for rapeseed SVO
Anyone can buy rapeseed oil at the supermarket just for playing around, but for bigger quantities I haven't a clue. Diesels like it pretty good though. I use just 1-2 quarts with #2 and it gives me that bio smell and improves fuel mileage, also enough tp plug my fuel filter. Wish it was available for $1 gallon or less. It would be good fuel for SVO systems I think. J.D. Does anyone have a good source for rapeseed oil preferably in the Northwest. Thanks Scott Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Diesel and biodeisel
I'm looking to purchase a new(or newer Jeep) in the near future. I've seen that Jeep is now coming out with a new diesel version of the Liberty. My co-worker said that diesel car produce more pollution then regular gasoline vechiles. I thought it was opposite, which is true? Also, I live in an urban area and would like to eventually wean off gas and into biodiesel. Are biodiesel sources in urban areas (particularly in the DC metro area) readily available? Hey welcome to teh list! Diesel cars pollute less in terms of greenhouse gases, VOCs and CO emmissions. They produce more NOx and PM pollutants. The choice is yours which is the bigger threast. I'm convinced its the VOCs and greenhouse gases. To answer your question about biodiesel...you cna run the new diesels oin it and it may or may not be readily available in DC. Here's a place to look and see if you ahve a public pump www.biodiesel.org Sorry can't make it hot. Certainly don't believe everything tehy tell you but its a start. Either way, it'll be expensive unless you brew your own, which is certainly not as hard as it sounds. If you follow the directions on JTF you should be able to make good biodiesel. Think the new diesel Libby will get 24-28MPG, but that's just a WAG. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel vs Gasoline Emissions per mi
Hi J.D. Lively, civil and more! I'd love to see or hear of any specific studies you've come across. Searching the internet yields mostly articles about how, though clean-diesel has washed away some of the dirty-diesel blues, diesel is still dirtier than gasoline. I'm not stopping there though. Most of the works cite research done by Prof. Jacobson from Stanford. (Sounds like it could be a case of having one researcher's findings spread like a rumor, giving something a bad name... like David Pimentel and ethanol production efficiency.) - Dave Dave, to tell the truth, I'll admit that I have been too intellectually lazy to actually dig for this too much. I am surprised that Keith hasn't added his 2 bits here. IIRC, his position is that a catalytic converter will fix the problem of high NOx emissions. The reason this solution has not been used in the US too much is that #2 still has too much sulfur for these things and quickly ruins them, but biodiesel and ULSD will work with a Cat. I'm not sure about the particulates, but I have heard a lot about particulate traps. I do have a concern for the engine and especially for performance with cats and traps, and I could be wrong about this, but I'm concerned that the backpressure from these things might make the exhaust much too restrictive. IME it already is on most consumer diesels. Hope someone will add something more useful, J.D. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Excuse my ignorance, but I've heard something recently that I need clarification on... Biodiesel is cleaner than diesel, but is it cleaner than reformulated gasoline? (CO, NOx, PM, and HC) I'm talking tailpipe emissions only, cause full life-cycle emissions obviously shows biofuel to be cleaner. The increased fuel efficiency of diesel engines surely will throw this thing wide open to debate, so a grams per mile basis seems appropriate. There was a thread going on this earlier this month that seemed unresolved. To respond to part of that thread, I've also heard of people running E85 in their new Prius Hybrids (without conversion, they must have a high compression, maybe 13:1). Anyone have more information on this? Dave Shaw Dave, I think it has been conclusively proven that in a one to one comparison, even #2 diesel is cleaner than gasoline with respect to CO, and hydrocarbon emissions. Biodiesel removes 100% of diesels sulfur and a great deal of its soot, reducing black smoke and particulate emissions. The reformulated gas is probably cleaner in terms of NOx, almost certainly, but I'm sure you're aware of the debate on whether or not NOx is really that harmful. Of course it does cause smog in combination with sunlight, and high VOCs, but many people feel controlling VOCs is the better way to decrease smog and improve air quality. Some studies eevn suggest that smog will increase when NOx decreases unless there is a corresponding drop in VOCs. I really don't have the answers, but I still think the diesel will come out cleaner on most important measures especially with biodiesel or ULSD (like they have in Europe). On the particulate issue, that may be a problem, but some say that even gas engines release particulate matter, just a smaller finer particle. Others say that diesels are too dirty just because of the particulate emissions issue, that they can cause illness. It hasn't been proven to my satisfaction, but to others, it most certainly has. Hope it is a lively yet civil debate, J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel vs Gasoline Emissions per mi
Hello, Excuse my ignorance, but I've heard something recently that I need clarification on... Biodiesel is cleaner than diesel, but is it cleaner than reformulated gasoline? (CO, NOx, PM, and HC) I'm talking tailpipe emissions only, cause full life-cycle emissions obviously shows biofuel to be cleaner. The increased fuel efficiency of diesel engines surely will throw this thing wide open to debate, so a grams per mile basis seems appropriate. There was a thread going on this earlier this month that seemed unresolved. To respond to part of that thread, I've also heard of people running E85 in their new Prius Hybrids (without conversion, they must have a high compression, maybe 13:1). Anyone have more information on this? Dave Shaw Dave, I think it has been conclusively proven that in a one to one comparison, even #2 diesel is cleaner than gasoline with respect to CO, and hydrocarbon emissions. Biodiesel removes 100% of diesels sulfur and a great deal of its soot, reducing black smoke and particulate emissions. The reformulated gas is probably cleaner in terms of NOx, almost certainly, but I'm sure you're aware of the debate on whether or not NOx is really that harmful. Of course it does cause smog in combination with sunlight, and high VOCs, but many people feel controlling VOCs is the better way to decrease smog and improve air quality. Some studies eevn suggest that smog will increase when NOx decreases unless there is a corresponding drop in VOCs. I really don't have the answers, but I still think the diesel will come out cleaner on most important measures especially with biodiesel or ULSD (like they have in Europe). On the particulate issue, that may be a problem, but some say that even gas engines release particulate matter, just a smaller finer particle. Others say that diesels are too dirty just because of the particulate emissions issue, that they can cause illness. It hasn't been proven to my satisfaction, but to others, it most certainly has. Hope it is a lively yet civil debate, J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] GMC Diesel
I am concidering the purchase of a 1983 GMC Suburban Diesel. I'm not excactly sure of the motor but I think it's a 5L. Has anyone had any experiance with these running on biofuel. I have read that the best motors to run bio are the indirect injection versions. I know the Ford powerstroke is one but I'm not sure about the Chevy/GMC of this vintage. What about the newer Chevy/GMC turbo diesels or the Cummins engine they put in the Dodge trucks? My next truck purchase will be a diesel I just want to get the best engine I can for use with biofuel. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated Hey, that engien is pretty frugalon fuel, especially compared with the 350 and 454 gas guzzler versions of Chevy V8s. Its a 6.2L diesel, made by Detroit. A solid engine, kind of doggy by todays standards, and it is an IDI, it will run well on decent biodiesel. It might have touble with SVO(or not, there's still a lot of debate about that). The weak link is taht liek older Ford?international IDIs, they run a Stanadyne distributor/rotary type pump. To put it bluntly, these injection pumps are not very good, but teh upside is, they are only 200-400USD plus a rebuildable core to replace. Injectors run something like 20-30 apiece. The pump failures are really not related to biodiesel, it just works very hard and doesn't live near as long as the Bosch type inline pumps in Mercedes and Cummins engines, but these pumps are hugely expensive to replace(like 1000 or more). SO its a tradeoff, longevity versus economy of replacement. Also, these rotary pumps aren't too awfully hard to rtepalce. if you're eevn a little handy and you follow the directions you cna do it! The 6.2 is a pretty solid and I think underrated engine. It can also be made more powerful with a turbocharger probably. Like all older diesels, these things like to eat glowplugs, but there are ways around this and in jany event, glow plugs arer relatively inexpensive. If you like teh vehicle, but it, I think you'll be happy with it. That is if it appears to be in ghood shape. You want todo the standard ispection, it should not have a lot of oil leaks(it will ahve some!) Beware of antifreeze leaks. they may be seroius or minor. If they are coming from teh heads or the block, you might wnat to walk away from it. If its just hoses or accessories, it should be an easy fix. The vehicle should start within a couple of turns once teh glowplugs have cycled. You should remove the oil filler cap while its running. You'll robably see a stream of white mist coming out. this is normal, but it should be simmering out fairly gently likea teaketle, not puffing aggressively liek a locomotive. It should also vent evenly, not puffing to the tune ofg one or more cylinders. One littel puff for each one is the norm. The exhaust smoke should be minimal once the engine has started. Black smoke on hard acceleration on fossil fuel especially is normal, so is some white smoke at startup. Blue smoke may or may not be serious. It could be unburnt fuel or a sign of oil burning. If you're not sure which it is, it might be best to walk away. WHen you are looking for an IDI, look at the Chevy 6.2 and 6.5 diesels(before 2000 I think) Ford/IH 6.9 and 7.3 diesels(1983-1994-not Powerstrokes). The Powerstorke does run wqell on biodiesel though as do the other new diesels. But a PSD is a direct injected diesel-computer controlled. Good luck. Keep us posted. If you are internet active, finda website dedicated to teh type opfvehicle you purchase. That's where I learned most of what I know about diesel engines. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Bio-D in a wick lamp-safe for use in teh house??
I was hoping someone could settle a disagreement my brother and I are having. In preparation for Hurricane Charley, I broke out the wick lamp and first off started with biodiesel. As Keith says on his website, it is hard to get top travel up the wick, but I was able to soak the wick enough to get it to light and it burned great. Because my brother is afraid of burning it in the house, I switched to kerosene and now he'ss aying teh whole system is contaminated. So I have 2 questions. First, if I burn biodiesel in a wick lamp like this, am I risking CO poisoning or any other noxious fumes? Second, if for some reason it is mixed with kero, does it become more toxic than either chemical alone. Thanks- J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: stanadyne pump compatability
Those pumps die anyway. Biodiesel isn't a problem with them. The Diesel Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch) still make cautious noises about biodiesel but they're supportive nonetheless. They insist on standard-spec fuel at minimum, but it's easy to make standard-spec biodiesel or better. Here's their statement on biodiesel quality: Summary -- html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html Full document -- Acrobat file, 104kb http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/FIEM.pdf For SVO/WVO the same reservations apply to Stanadyne pumps as to Lucas-CAV - rotary pumps, not good. Elsbett says: We do not suggest to modify engines equipped with distributor-type injection pumps manufactured by Delphi, Lucas, CAV, Stanadyne and Roto-Diesel. There's more about this at Darren Hill's site: http://www.vegburner.co.uk/suitability.htm Vegburner Meanwhile there've been furious denials from Greasel and probably others - nothing wrong with rotary pumps and SVO, they say, it's just rumors, misinformation. Ho-hum. Ed Beggs of Neoteric reported an initial failure (old pump) and no problems with the rebuilt replacement: Starting into a project with an old highly worn pump - well, sure, anything can happen... these pumps fail daily to begin with, on diesel fuel... Throw in some inferior WVO that should have been made into biodiesel, and you are adding to the potential for problems, IMO. On the other hand, with a good pump in good shape, and good WVO or SVO, well heated and free of water and contaminants.. no problems. Others agree with that, though it's also said that the Stanadyne pumps can't take too much heat either, maybe 180 deg F max. Not too little, not too much. It's the same with the Lucas - it can be done but it has to be done well, and there's still a shortage of long-term results, there are some, but not enough. Once again, it's the difference between biodiesel and SVO. Biodiesel - any diesel will do. SVO - maybe any diesel, but there's a lot more to consider, if you're just going to chuck it in and go then be prepared for problems. Best Keith to elaborate on that a little (since I own one of these vehicles) Elsbett has recommended not converting vehicles equipped with Stanodyne pumps to SVO. (this came from Aleksander Noack directly, not sure if it's on their website or not) we had a LOT of failures (ie 7 or 8 now?) with these pumps (on Fords and Chevy trucks) in the Bay Area on SVO, none on biodiesel. Of course lots of other people have also run them successfully on SVO, again, no pump failures reported anywhere on biodiesel. It looks like the failures in our area were mostly on vehicles which weren't getting sufficient heating on the WVO side. These folks mostly ran homemade or experimental conversions, and the failures (sized pump) occured quite early in the conversion's life. The several of these cases that I looked into, didn't do adequate temperature monitoring , so it is possible that the temps weren't up to par. In any case it seems a strong case to be extra careful with SVO in these vehicles. One of them seized his pump and then seized the newly rebuilt replacement almost immediately. When he called the rebuild company about it the second time, they asked if he was using biodiesel- they'd apparently gotten a few back from various people already. I imagine that the SVO'ers who were trying to get the company to accept their seized pumps as cores were probably doing what my friends did- and probably weren't quite straight with the co. as to what fuel they were using, and had probably told that company it was biodiesel (since that sounds less bad than hacking into your fuel system, from a fuel injection equipment manufacturers' perspective. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not recommended for SVO/WVO use, fine with biodiesel. Best Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best I can tell the pump in my vehicle is a distributor type Stanadyne pump. If I am wrong on that point, someone please correct me! From what I remember, the fuel injector pump on the 5.7, 6.2 and 6.5 is a Roosa Master. I don't know why distributor type fuel injection pumps would have problems on biodiesel, though I imagine the close tolerances of such a device might cause problems with WVO after it had cooled down. But that would simply entail running biodiesel or standard diesel through the pump for a few moments to clean out the hot WVO before shutting down, would it not? Once, when I was seriously looking at a 6.5 turbo diesel, I contacted Ed Beggs about a SVO conversion for that engine. He told me at the time that he'd had no experience with this family of engines. Since this is Ed's business, I hedged on buying the truck and it sold to someone else. Thanks for any info or especially experiences if anyone is already
Re: [biofuel] stanadyne pump compatability
Ok, here is my dilema, I am researching wether to convert my 1985 Chevy Blazer 6.2 to burn alternative fuels such as biodiesel, SVO and WVO. I have learned alot about the fuels, processes and the equipment, but ran into a snag about the viability of my vehicle for this project. Below you will find a couple short excerpt taken from different sources which have widely differing opinions on whether my vehicle is a good candidate for this transformation. Please read.. PRO OPINION: These motors are solid and reliable (when maintained) to well over 300,000 miles. As with any motor during the course of its implementation, bugs are identified (injection pump for example) and corrected. One must remember that these problems are not at the sole or exclusive fault of GM. The Stanadyne DB2 injection pump has undergone several improvements during its use, and reliability has increased. Some notable pluses about the 6.2L Detroit diesel: It is the least expensive diesel to rebuild or replace. It features the least expensive injector pump to rebuild or replace. It is the least expensive diesel oil change. They are known for excellent fuel economy. It is the easiest to convert to SVO or Bio-diesel. It produces the largest gains from aftermarket upgrades CON OPINION: 2We do not suggest the conversion of engines equipped with distributor-type injection pumps manufactured by DELPHI, LUCAS, CAV, Stanadyne and Roto-Diesel. Best I can tell the pump in my vehicle is a distributor type Stanadyne pump. If I am wrong on that point, someone please correct me! Thanks for any info or especially experiences if anyone is already burning these fuels using a motor and pump similar to mine, thanks again!!! Problem with this injection pump, its not as sturdy as the Bosch inline pumps that a lot of these biofuelers with Mercedes and VW diesels are familiar with. They have a lot opf wear parts that are far from heavy duty. Our Ford 6.9 and 7.3 IDIs have the same DB2 pump, except it turns the opposite way in the IH/Ford diesels as Chevy/Detroits. That said, we have a few folks over at the Diesel Stop running WVO/SVO in 7.3 and 6.9 IDIs. Some of them have a lot of miles, but will the pumps last? At worst, your're risking a $300 injection pump. Although I like IH diesels myself, I will say that the 6.2 Detroit is a tough engine and will give you many trouble free miles if you keep up on the maintenance. I woukd make and run biodiesel myself, since this is already an iffy pump and WVO is not tried and true with them. Luck, J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] f-250 conversion/diesel engine biofuel primer
Thank you thats a start. what about m.p.g.does that stay the same also it seems to me that running on svo or wvo would be better then running bd,but it seems a high number are running on bd.Why? -Original Message- From: Kenneth Kron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:40 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] f-250 conversion/diesel engine biofuel primer Hey, your '97 is a Poerstroke Diesel, the same as an International T444E. It features direct fuel injection and is electronically controlled. Because it is DI and electronic, I would recommend that you use biodiesel. The fuel has to be very finely atomized to work in a DI. That said, there is a lot of interest in SVO over at the Diesel Stop, and a couple of guys are running SVO in 7.3 PSD engines. I'd not be convinced that it will work as well as diesel or biodiesel until they have hundreds of thousands of veggie miles with no unusual fuel related problems. The injectors are probably the most likely component to be damaged, and they are not cheap to fix. If you're up for taking a chance go for it, but for goodness sakes, do it right. ALways preheat the oil and start and stop on petrodiesel or biodiesel. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to invesst in a greasel or similar conversion. Good luck, J.D. SVO - Straight Vegetable oil - virgin or unused vegetable oil. WVO - Waste Vegetable oil - Oil that has been used to fry food. Biodiesel - A renewable fuel made from fatty acids (oils). Biofuel pros svo, wvo are reasonably equiv. to BD for this list with two exceptions: 1) there has been alot more testing done specifically on biodiesel 2) While the diesel engine was invented to be run on vegetable oil it, WVO i snot equivalent to straight peanut oil. * Biodiesel use increase international stability as opposed to decreasing it as petro fuel does. * Biodiesel use reduces the risk of fuel transportation disasters as it requires less transport and is significantly less toxic. * Biodiesel is less expensive than petrodiesel to deliver to American markets * Biodiesel use along with conservation is the cost effective way to immediately reduce our dependence on middle east oil * Biodiesel combustion produces over 60% fewer pollutants than petrodiesel, over 90% fewer carcinogens and is not a net green house gas contributor. * Biodiesel removes an entire class of acid rain producing smog from diesel exhaust * Biodiesel when used as a petroleum diesel additive at rates of between 5% 20% is already an accepted product in the petroleum diesel market-place * According to some estimates the US can produce enough biodiesel to meet more than 20% of it's fuel needs and all of it's current diesel fuel needs * Biodiesel production is less dangerous than petroleum fuel production * Biodiesel production creates almost no pollution * Biodiesel from WVO has a higher lubricity and cetane rating than petrodiesel and is otherwise comparable or superior in performance when used in diesel engines * Biodiesel production from WVO reduces demands on landfills * Biodiesel exhaust actually has a pleasant aroma * Biodiesel is 1/10th as toxic as table salt and biodegrades like dextrose with up to 98% biodegredation in 3 weeks * Biodiesel is one of the most cost effective ways to reduce exhaust pollution from smaller and inexpensive engines Depending on your engine, climate and who you ask, SVO/WVO can be mixed with diesel (petro or bio). SVO/WVO kits cost between $600-$1200+, pay the upfront costs, take additional risks on warranty coverage, mostly because the hardware changes advertise that you did something interesting and get a payback rate dependent on how much fuel you use. Biofuel cons: * People will look at you strangely and say your vehicle smells nice. * People who love the smell of burning petro will say somethings wrong with your truck. * The US engine manufacturers association says they don't warranty biodiesel or VO even though they don't warranty any other fuel either and in the California at least the burden of proof is on the warranty provider to show that the users action caused the damage. * Crown Prince* *Abdullah, OPEC and the Bush clan will suffer a minute decrease in their net worth if every day 100 people switch from petro fuels to biofuels. See http://www.google.com/search?hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8safe=offq=diesel+vegetable+ oil+conversion+kitsbtnG=Search for most of the manufacturers of VO kits. VO kits are sensitive to oil quality as they rely on relationships between oil temperature and viscosity. Kenneth Kron
Re: [biofuel] Re: Smokin BioD, not smokin on PetroD
sorry, yeah, a 6.9L. I still can't believe 6.9 litres could move so slow. It does help explain the volume of smoke though, 9 1/4 wine bottles worth of combustion space! Wow, that seemed like a lot until I converted it to beers, only 19 1/2, still a solid days work. You mean a 6.9 engine though, Steve Murphy Mapping Technician Truckee Donner PUD (530) 582-3943 Steve, no they are not racecars, but aside from a few issues, they are a bulletproof motor. You should not be having excessive smoke like that. It indicates that your timing is off or something is wrong with the fuel system. Here's how it SHOULD be. You ought to have a little puff of smoke, any color, immediately on startup, evident with biodiesel or #2, and she will smoke grey/blue until she's warm(180-200*F) after that, you should have NO smoke at idle and only some black smoke under hard acceleration, like around shift pointsd or at WOT. Mine idles and drives around town with no smoke at all except under hard acceleration, when cold or after a long idle. I'd highly recommend you visit this website: forums.thedieselstop.com These guys are teh Ford Diesel experts. I'm just learning. We also have our own dedicated biodiesel and alternative fuels forum. Good luck, J.D. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Smokin BioD, not smokin on PetroD
J.D, thanks a lot for the response. OK, You mean a 6.9 engine though, unless you have done a Cummins conversion. I have an '86 with the 6.9 and it smoke like that before I got teh timing set right. Another thing is, when they smoke its like a lot of the old OTR Cummins L-10s and Macks, it lets out a good stream of bluish/black smoke. At least it looks blue from the drivers seat, but in the pass seat or in another car, you can tell that it is indeed gray/black smoke. This makes it a very good idea to convert them to non-fossil fuel to reduce pollution. I hate to say it, but another thing to consider is the condition of the fuel injectors and injection pump. These engines are great, but the fuel system leaves much to be desired ):. If you have a good engine and your temp is good, it HAS top be fuel related. Good Luck, J.D. The truck is indeed an F250, '85 with the 5.9L engine. I like your assessment. The timing is the only one of the three causes that I could see being related to the fuel. I will keep loggin more miles and see if the problem keeps up. I think today I'll take a drive down to Reno to make sure the engine is good and warm. I think I will wait until I have developed a more reliable bioDiesel supply and then have the engine tuned and timed around that fuel. I'm also skeptical of this batch of fuel. We'll see how the smoke goes if I can get some commercial B100 to rule out fuel impurity issues. The guy who made my fuel usually only washes batches that are going into his girlfriend's new Jetta, so I can't rule the fuel out. Thanks for the response, Steve Steve Murphy Mapping Technician Truckee Donner PUD (530) 582-3943 My thought is that blue smoke is usually caused by 1 of 3 things 1) Oil being burnt, blowing by teh rings or valves 2) Timing too far advanced or too far retarded 3) Engine too cold I will assume its not #1. You'd have noticed that on B10 or petrodiesel also I lean towrad #2. Biodiesel has a higher cetane rating than petrodiesel. Timing is set according to cetane content. I would also think its not 3, not at least if your engine temp is in the right range. We'll assume its timing then, but thinking about cetane always gives me a headache. I can't remember whether timing should be more retarded for higer cetane or more advanced. I do know that many environmentally conscious individuals suggest retarding the engine's timing 2-3* to overcome BD's higher cetane, so I guess you're probably too far advanced. I would suggest getting the timing done on the fuel you want to use most of the time at a good diesel shop unless you have a timing tool yourself. First lets find out what type of engine this is. You say it has dual tanks, so I'm assuming its a Ford F-series. Is it a powerstroke, a 6.9 or a 7.3 IDI? With the IDI, you could retard teh timing a dime's thicknessor two and see if it makes a difference. If its a PSD, you'll need to let the pros handle it since its computer controlled. On an IDI, you loosen the 3 injector pump mounting bolts and rotate the pump itself. Be advised, you won't get much movement out of it, just a hair, but a little makes a lot of difference. BTW, you rotate it toward the driver's side to retard the timing and toward the pass side to advance it. I think its timing. Look into it. J.D. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Smokin BioD, not smokin on PetroD
Hello everyone, I have a curious question for the group. Last night I put my first B100 in the tank. I have been running commercially produced B10 for about a month. The B100 is homemade. I have a two-tank truck. I ran the front tank down pretty low, added 3 galloons B100, so i've probably got B80-B90 in the front tank. Rear tank is B10. I warmed up the engine, then switched to the *B100*. The freeway headed down a hill. Soon as we head down hill the truck starts smokin like I've never seen. It was pretty thick blue smoke. The truck seems to let out a belch of smoke everytime I put in the clutch or head down hill. The smoking is not continous, little puffs come out at random times. I switched back to the B10 and the smoke seems to have died down. My first thought was Oh that's just the biodiesel cleaning out the gunk. But i would expect that to clog a filter, not smoke. Any thoughts on what is going on or how I should proceed? Thanks, Steve My thought is that blue smoke is usually caused by 1 of 3 things 1) Oil being burnt, blowing by teh rings or valves 2) Timing too far advanced or too far retarded 3) Engine too cold I will assume its not #1. You'd have noticed that on B10 or petrodiesel also I lean towrad #2. Biodiesel has a higher cetane rating than petrodiesel. Timing is set according to cetane content. I would also think its not 3, not at least if your engine temp is in the right range. We'll assume its timing then, but thinking about cetane always gives me a headache. I can't remember whether timing should be more retarded for higer cetane or more advanced. I do know that many environmentally conscious individuals suggest retarding the engine's timing 2-3* to overcome BD's higher cetane, so I guess you're probably too far advanced. I would suggest getting the timing done on the fuel you want to use most of the time at a good diesel shop unless you have a timing tool yourself. First lets find out what type of engine this is. You say it has dual tanks, so I'm assuming its a Ford F-series. Is it a powerstroke, a 6.9 or a 7.3 IDI? With the IDI, you could retard teh timing a dime's thicknessor two and see if it makes a difference. If its a PSD, you'll need to let the pros handle it since its computer controlled. On an IDI, you loosen the 3 injector pump mounting bolts and rotate the pump itself. Be advised, you won't get much movement out of it, just a hair, but a little makes a lot of difference. BTW, you rotate it toward the driver's side to retard the timing and toward the pass side to advance it. I think its timing. Look into it. J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Diesel fire suppression
Thank you very much for your response Arlos. I'm new to the biofuel scene and I find it quite disturbing that fire suppression and avoidance isn't more talked about. Fire risk is a major reason for the emphasis on closed processors, also on TEFC pumps and stirrer motors. See: Hazards http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#haz Best Keith Is this even much of a concern with storing biodiesel? I know that methanlo and methoxide are highly flammable, but as Arlos said, you need to bring a chemical up to its flashpoint to burn it, with biodiesel this is more than 300*F isn't it? You'd have ahrd time getting that kind of a temp in your yard or garage. The only way I see that you could actually have aproblem is if you ahd a small fire, say an electric fire or trash fire and it involved some other materials and stared licking at your tank. In that case it would burn very hot and would be hard to extinguish. I did a similar experiment with WVO last fall. I was building a fire in my fire pit with my brother and a friend of mine. We tried to light the WVO directly with a match, even with a burning stick, no luck, but when the fire got up to temp. it started burning the WVO that had spilled on the pebbles. It burned very hot and even explosively until all the oil was consumed. So I think it would probably be wise to find out what the fire marshall has to say about storage opf biodiesel or even fossil diesel. There has to be some good way to put this type of fire out. Most importantly, it would seem like, we should keep all fuels, biofuels or otherwise away from all possible sources of ignition. Again I really appreciate your response. I didn't figure that I would get more then a few lines from a couple of different people on this subject. --adam -Original Message- From: Arlos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 7:21 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Diesel fire suppression Adam, Do a search for MSDS (Material Safety and Data Sheet) This will list the flash point vapor pressure, and recommended fire suppression media. In the case of one MSDS, it was noted that foam (AFFF), dry chemical and CO2 were recommended. As a former fire fighter, you have to have enough fire suppression material on hand but the best advice, is get out and call 911 because no amount of material wealth is worth losing your life over fighting a fire. If you store your finish product in a steel drum, that needs to have a bonded ground connection. Static protection is a good idea anyway with working around the storage or making of bio-diesel. If your 200 L is stored with a fire resistant lid (hopefully) then the next problem is storage in an area where there is a source of combustion (other flammables, ignition source point such as hot work equipment like welding, drill motors, grinding equipment. Have a fire resistant oily rag can with a spring lid. Answering exactly how much fire fighting media is need depends on several points. Did a fire occur when the 200 L has spilled and has involved other types of combustibles as in a wooded floor, out door near dry grass or brush, curtains, furnishing, paper. Is the weather a factor such as wind, humidity and temp. Is your fire contained within a drum only? Is it in an enclosed area, open area outdoor, under an overhang, under a tree? In the best case, you can extinguish a self contained fire by placing a lid on the container. Gas and petroleum fires are fought by containing the source and laying on a blanket of oxygen reducing foam Small multi class fire extinguishers have a limited amount of material and should be checked annually as some dry chemicals will cake during long storage they are not a good choice outdoors as the wrong use can actually spread flames.One of the first things a fire fighter learns is the term, Put the wet stuff on the red stuff.. Water is the number one choice for firefighting because it's cheap, available and easy to transport. Water may or may not be a good choice because it can actually help to spread flames. Water is used to cool a fire below the flash point. Remember only a gas burns, not a liquid or a solid. Only when a material is heated will it release a gas that actually burns, not the material. This is the same for fluids. A garden hose will deliver between 3-7 gallons per minute which is just enough to push a good fire around, not put it out, Foams are mixed with water because they will blanket the fuel and cool the flash point. There are several commercial systems like Ansel available if you store fuel in a secure area. The most serious consideration in a bio-diesel fire are the by- products of combustion. This has to be considered. In an enclosed area the rapid lack of available breathable air is the single biggest factor in your survival during a fire. People generally succumb to respiration issues due to toxic substances. The best thing to do is have a plan,
Re: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle
Has anyone out there built a diesel powered motorcycle? If so, let me know, I believe it would be a good project. It would be cool and unique, but what engine would you use that would perform well in that application? J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] building your own diesel motorcycle
There was a Dutch motorcycle that used a 2L Peugeot motor. I cannot remember what Gearbox he used, or the orientation. There is an Indian manufactured Enfield m/c using a Hatz 350cc diesel, but they are pedestrian. I recently have seen another one using a V-twin diesel, but cannot remember the details. Good luck! regards Doug On Mon, 31 May 2004 03:48 pm, Keith Addison wrote: Has anyone out there built a diesel powered motorcycle? If so, let me know, I believe it would be a good project. It would be cool and unique, but what engine would you use that would perform well in that application? J.D. If you could use something as big as 2L, why not drop in a crate 1.9L VW TDI? They would probably revv high enough and respond quickly enough to be cool in this application! J.D. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html Diesel motorbikes Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Bio-D as a chainsaw barchain lube?
Any thoughts on alternative fuels for chainsaws? George George Page www.seabreezefarm.net Vashon Island, WA USA -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 12:57 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bio-D as a chainsaw barchain lube? Hi J.D. Keith, Gustl, The saw is a Stihl 025 with an 18 bar and a replaceable floating rim sprocket so that replacement isn't much. Same as ours, but yours is bigger. I'm not sure about the floating rim sprocket. Trouble is, it's in bits and pieces. It came with the, um, house, and it was like that when we arrived (a bit like the house). I've looked at it threateningly a few times, close enough to ascertain that all the bits seem to be there, but it's still in its box. We've been using circular saws up to now, but we have need of a working chainsaw, I'll have to do more than just threaten it soon. If it works, I'll definitely try biodiesel as lube, and also as 2-stroke oil. Hm, I'll probably need a junked one for spares, have to put in an order with the Gomi Kame (the God of Junk, upon whom we depend rather heavily, he's most cooperative). Some components are near the end of their anticipated useful life so I'm not running that big of a risk. I am not a professional logger, but I do cut a fair bit of firewood, dead trees and waste from construction sites that would otherwise be wasted and make a little something for nothing from it. Yes, quite, so do we. Good for you. I just got the idea and poured it in. I can tell that it is working so far as it has that bit of spray you all talked about from the end of the bar. I have only run it this way for about 15-20 minutes. I will keep you posted. Please. I think teh saw itself might outlast me at the rate I'm using it now. Keith you are right, Stihl makes a vegoil based bar and chain lube. I was interested in it because it is renewable, but the dealer said you'd have to special order taht in the U.S., but that was a few years back. Surely it must be more common than special-order status. It's been discussed here before, how much dino-muck gets spouted around forests by chainsaws. IIRC it's common in Northern Europe, and I think Canada. Ed, don't Neoteric sell that stuff? Canola-based? Best Keith J.D. Hallo J.D., Monday, 17 May, 2004, 01:51:19, you wrote: kmgn I tried some of my test batch in teh oil reservior on my chainsaw today, kmgn and so far noproblems. I read on the JTF site that it is a good non-toxic kmgn household and garden lube. Now for those not familiar with what good bar kmgn and chain lube has to do, it must lubricate the drum, floating rim kmgn sprocket, the chain sprocket and cutting chain. No internal engine parts kmgn are affected. All oil pump assy. parts are cheap and easily replaced as kmgn are most of the other parts I described. WHat do you all think? kmgn Thanks, J.D. I would think that biodiesel is too thin to do the job but that is just a guess. I wouldn't use a good chain saw to test it on. No problems so far is just that, so far. It also has to lubricate the bar and chain as well and needs to stick to those parts as much as possible. Have you ever noticed how much weigh oil comes off the end of that bar as you are cutting? And that is a heavy oil. Chains, bars and sprockets aren't cheap, at least not to me. Let us know how it goes though. Who knows, it could do the trick. Caution is advised, yes, but I think viscosity and lubricity are not the same. Two different problems perhaps - biodiesel might well do the lubrication job well, but could get used up faster because it's thinner. We've had a few reports of people using it as chainsaw barchain lube with success, but no long-term reports. So please keep us advised, J.D., even if it self-destructs. I believe there are vegoil-based chainsaw lubricants available. Best Keith Happy Happy, Gustl -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Funny you should ask, because I was wondering if you guys had tried burning ethanol in a 2-stroke. I don't know if it would cause problems . I know up to 10 or 20% Ethanol is ok, but any methanol could be bad, really bad from what I hear. Of course that applies specifically to marine 2 cycles, and we're talking air cooled. I'll see if either of the
Re: [biofuel] Bio-D as a chainsaw barchain lube?
Keith, Gustl, The saw is a Stihl 025 with an 18 bar and a replaceable floating rim sprocket so that replacement isn't much. Some components are near the end of their anticipated useful life so I'm not running that big of a risk. I am not a professional logger, but I do cut a fair bit of firewood, dead trees and waste from construction sites that would otherwise be wasted and make a little something for nothing from it. I just got the idea and poured it in. I can tell that it is working so far as it has that bit of spray you all talked about from the end of the bar. I have only run it this way for about 15-20 minutes. I will keep you posted. I think teh saw itself might outlast me at the rate I'm using it now. Keith you are right, Stihl makes a vegoil based bar and chain lube. I was interested in it because it is renewable, but the dealer said you'd have to special order taht in the U.S., but that was a few years back. J.D. Hallo J.D., Monday, 17 May, 2004, 01:51:19, you wrote: kmgn I tried some of my test batch in teh oil reservior on my chainsaw today, kmgn and so far noproblems. I read on the JTF site that it is a good non-toxic kmgn household and garden lube. Now for those not familiar with what good bar kmgn and chain lube has to do, it must lubricate the drum, floating rim kmgn sprocket, the chain sprocket and cutting chain. No internal engine parts kmgn are affected. All oil pump assy. parts are cheap and easily replaced as kmgn are most of the other parts I described. WHat do you all think? kmgn Thanks, J.D. I would think that biodiesel is too thin to do the job but that is just a guess. I wouldn't use a good chain saw to test it on. No problems so far is just that, so far. It also has to lubricate the bar and chain as well and needs to stick to those parts as much as possible. Have you ever noticed how much weigh oil comes off the end of that bar as you are cutting? And that is a heavy oil. Chains, bars and sprockets aren't cheap, at least not to me. Let us know how it goes though. Who knows, it could do the trick. Caution is advised, yes, but I think viscosity and lubricity are not the same. Two different problems perhaps - biodiesel might well do the lubrication job well, but could get used up faster because it's thinner. We've had a few reports of people using it as chainsaw barchain lube with success, but no long-term reports. So please keep us advised, J.D., even if it self-destructs. I believe there are vegoil-based chainsaw lubricants available. Best Keith Happy Happy, Gustl -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] I have clean washed biodiesel now what?
Well, After ,making my first few test batches, I now have a few quarts of nice clear contaminant free biodiesel. The viscoscity feels much thinner than SVO and pours much like #2 diesel. Color is a pale yellow, almost straw like color. I do have a couple of questions, concerns. When I first did the reaction, the fuel was very cloudy and it looked like an incomplete reaction, which you all say is typical of using PET mixers rather than the proper blender or processor method. It did almost immediately show separtion into glycerin and ester though. Since I knew I probably used too much lye, I added some apple cider vineager to the first wash to neutralize any remaining catalyst as in Mike Pelly's recipe. I'm sure it drops out along with the wash water and soaps, but the fuel still has a bit of a vineagary smell to it. Finally, can I check the pH of the fuel itself, or will only a test of the washwater yield accurate results? Is litmus paper acceptable for this? Is it safe to burn this test batch in my truck, assuming clarity and good pH? My truck is an International 6.9L IDI diesel by the way. I appreciate the info from all of you. J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday
Yes, I wondered the same thing. I think the question of how much NOx might come from biodiesel is somewhat complex, depending on the fuel and the engine? On the rest of the emissions issues, I think it is not disputed that Biodiesel would be a help. The 2007 sulfur-reduction date is a disappointment I think. On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:48:26 -0400, you wrote: I wonder if this will have any effect on the sale and use of biodiesel in the US, since its nitrous oxide levels are higher than petro diesel? The article seems to stress that the reduction in nitrous oxide levels are their focus. Chris Well, there are basically 2 opinions on this, either the diesel engien will adjust to these new requirements, and because of the fact that if the NOx and particulate emissions can be controlled, they are by far more environmentally friendly, they will be everywhere by 2010. Others say diesels will go teh way of the dinosaur, and everything will have to have spark plugs by 2010. What say you all? Personally I haven't a clue. I just know what I think would be good. J.D. murdoch wrote: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=1u=/nm/20040510/sc_nm/environment_diesel_dc Fuel refiners will be required to produce diesel fuel by 2012 that is 99 percent free of smog-causing nitrogen oxides under the new rules, which the EPA proposed a year ago. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 82 mercedes 300td HELP!
While I realized that this is not the best place for a benz question, Hi, Don't know much about the Benz diesels in particular, but I know some guys who do. Look for an interactive forum for Mercedes Benz owners. there you'll find a guy named Tim, who goes by the handle The Warden who is a memeber on the Ford diesel site too, and he's a Benz expert, but he's just one of many over there. Don't panic. It's almost certainly still a good engine and driveline. In any diesel I know anything about, that would be a fuel starvation problem, and is caused by fuel pump failure, injection pump failure, injector failure, or a resriction in the fuel system or air intake. Good luck, I know you'll run this one down quick. here goes- I have an '82 300td [wagon] with 239,000k miles on it. Just bought it last week and got the paperwork done so I can start driving it this week. I ran around Savannah[GA] here with it several days- Ok. No problems. Today, the car started to hesitate big time. I'm running only dino diesel fuel. The seller changed both fuel filters prior to the sale. The car would run briefly, but then would crawl along at 5MPH at best- then it coughed and gave up the ghost. The engine will turn over. Any ideas? -Michael - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] How long does lye take to dissolve in methanol
I finally took the step of making a test batch of biodiesel. At least I have attempted to mix teh methoxide. I bought a bottle of HEET gas line antifreeze which is reportedly of a high enough purity to use, and a jar of red devil lye. I mixed about 7 grams of lye to a bit better than 300Ml of Methanol. How long before I have useable methoxide? IO tried looking at Keith's site, but apparently its down tonight or else my browser is having trouble recognizing it. Can you all help me? Thanks! J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: How long does lye take to dissolve in methanol
I finally took the step of making a test batch of biodiesel. At least I have attempted to mix teh methoxide. I bought a bottle of HEET gas line antifreeze which is reportedly of a high enough purity to use, and a jar of red devil lye. I mixed about 7 grams of lye to a bit better than 300Ml of Methanol. How long before I have useable methoxide? IO tried looking at Keith's site, but apparently its down tonight or else my browser is having trouble recognizing it. Can you all help me? Thanks! J.D. Hello J.D. Our site was down, it's back now, sorry. See: Mixing the methoxide http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#methmix ... and also I think other sections at the Make your own biodiesel pages. The full ToC is below. Couple of questions though. Are you using virgin oil for your first test batch? What quantity? If not virgin oil, what oil? (Best to start with virgin oil.) These measures seem strange: of red devil lye. I mixed about 7 grams of lye to a bit better than 300Ml of Methanol. 7 grams of lye would either be for two litres of virgin oil or for one litre of WVO titrating at 3.5ml. How did you weigh the lye? Two litres of virgin oil would take 400 ml of methanol, one litre of WVO would take 200 ml of methanol. Could you explain? These don't bode well J.D.: about, a bit better than. It really pays to try to be as precise and meticulous as possible, especially at the beginning. Later when you're more experienced and have a feel for it you'll know which short-cuts you can take wihout risk, or too much risk. At the beginning you're dealing with unknowns. If it doesn't work out as expected, knowing that you've done your best to be precise with measurements and process control will be a great help in trying to figure out what went wrong. Otherwise you'll be faced with too many variables and you'll flounder. Best Keith Make your own biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Three choices 1. Mixing it 2. Straight vegetable oil 3. Biodiesel Biodiesel Where do I start? What's next? The process Our first biodiesel Biodiesel from new oil Biodiesel from waste oil Washing Using biodiesel Safety How much methanol? Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel Reclaiming excess methanol More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein High FFA levels Deacidifying WVO No titration? The basic lye quantity -- 3.5 grams? Mixing the methoxide Test batches Stock methoxide solution How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? PET bottle mixers Viscosity testing How the process works What are Free Fatty Acids? Which method to use? Quality Quality testing Other uses Identifying plastics Separating glycerine/FFAs Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links I know I screwed up on my measurements, and that's probably why its too soapy to use. I did use virgin oil on this batch and probably will again or some clean wvo. And I'll be more precise with my measurements. i think I used too much lye and that caused too much saponification. I'll let you all know how batch No 2 comes off tonight. J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
I would respectfully disagree with your assessment. Well, Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I just know that with my truck, in 3000 miles, its time for a change. that's with Shell rotellaT 15W-40 dino oil in a 6.9 International. What are you driving? J.D. You say: I would not recommend those kind of intervals for those of us burning fossil fuels much of teh time and/or using mineral based oil in an older diesel. Its asking for trouble. I have ONLY used fossil fuels in this automobile. The dozens of professional lab results indicate the oil as new, even after 100 plus thousand miles, with the use of bypass filtration, and still well within acceptable limits after 10,000 miles without bypass filtration. My results are over the course of several years, 200,000 plus miles. Unless having as new oil lubricating my engine at all times is asking for trouble, I find your statement questionable, but, these are MY results, substantiated by professional lab analysis, yours may indeed differ. In any event, I think we will agree that oil analysis is imperative if one is considering extended drain intervals, as no two engines are identical. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I purchased a Mercedes Benz 1995 E300 diesel with slightly over 100,000 miles on the odometer. Mercedes dealer impeccably maintained it prior to my purchase as it was under a Starmark warrantee. I'm not sure if it used synthetic oil prior to my purchase, but I immediately changed it to Mobil 1 15W-50. I then performed professional oil analysis at several change intervals, including 4,000, 6,000, 8,000 and 10,000 miles, numerous times. My lab reports suggested this motor was well protected even at the 10,000-mile change intervals using Mobil 1. Soot levels were under 2%, all other data within expected values. snip Yep, That is a common figure for synthetic, but you must do oil analysis to make sure you still ahev good protection as the oil ages. For those interested in conservation, it may be a good, if small measure. If you are not running fossil fuels in there, soot will be lower, and therefore, the oil viscocity will stay more like it should. I would not recommend those kind of intervals for those of us burning fossil fuels much of teh time and/or using mineral based oil in an older diesel. Its asking for trouble. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Methanol Based HEET for test batches
There was some discussion about this awhile back I rememeber, but as soon as the semester is over, I will be maing a test batch or two, and I see that this stuff is cheap and readily available. What do you think? J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
Good info, Ron, very interesting! Now I'm going to read it all again. Thanks very much. Best wishes Keith I purchased a Mercedes Benz 1995 E300 diesel with slightly over 100,000 miles on the odometer. Mercedes dealer impeccably maintained it prior to my purchase as it was under a Starmark warrantee. I'm not sure if it used synthetic oil prior to my purchase, but I immediately changed it to Mobil 1 15W-50. I then performed professional oil analysis at several change intervals, including 4,000, 6,000, 8,000 and 10,000 miles, numerous times. My lab reports suggested this motor was well protected even at the 10,000-mile change intervals using Mobil 1. Soot levels were under 2%, all other data within expected values. snip Yep, That is a common figure for synthetic, but you must do oil analysis to make sure you still ahev good protection as the oil ages. For those interested in conservation, it may be a good, if small measure. If you are not running fossil fuels in there, soot will be lower, and therefore, the oil viscocity will stay more like it should. I would not recommend those kind of intervals for those of us burning fossil fuels much of teh time and/or using mineral based oil in an older diesel. Its asking for trouble. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] FIRST WASHED BATCH
x-charset ISO-8859-1 Hi all, Got my first washed batch done. (I think) The ph level is about 5.4 I don't think that is right. What do I do? It looks great a nice golden brown kinda like honey. Very clear. I think it looks good. But then it is my first batch. What is the thoughts of the list? Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] I really don't know what the procedure is, butr that's pretty strongly acidic. It will eat your fuel system. Hopefully someone who knows more than me will get in on this, but if it washed out clear, it looks like you done good with a fairly compete reaction. Congrats, J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Need epoxy coated(food grade) steel drum for Bio-Dprocessor??
x-charset ISO-8859-1Maud, IHave you ever noticed how most small diesel fuel pumps have filter/water separators inline? This sort of setup is also recommended for biodiesel. I'm wondering if a good fuel filter/seaparator would eliminate any concern over rust contamination etc. J.D. Speaking of rusty drums, I have scavenged several and they seem to be slightly pre-rusted on the interior. I know I don't want to put iron oxide into my fuel system. Is there an effective way to remove this rust or render it inert so I can still use the drums? Maud St. Louis, Missouri Biodiesel and WVO do not corrode bare steel. However, WVO may have a large percentage of water that will settle to the bottom of the drum, and to a limited extent will cause rusting. This is limited by the lack of large amounts of air since it will be sealed off by the oil layer, but over time can lead to rusting. If you have clean oil or biodiesel, it will not appreciably rust. And, hey, the price is right. Tom Leue In a message dated 1/21/04 1:21:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Today I was at the local hazardous waste recycling center and noticed that there were many 55 gal. steel drums free for the asking. I told the guy what I was planning on doing with it and he said that for biodiesel I would need an epoxy coated drum, like a food grade drum or eith HDPE in order to avoid the risk of oxidation since these drums have bare metal walls. Is he right, or does he not know enough about bio? Thanks! J.D. - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] Need epoxy coated(food grade) steel drum for Bio-D processor??
x-charset ISO-8859-1Today I was at the local hazardous waste recycling center and noticed that there were many 55 gal. steel drums free for the asking. I told the guy what I was planning on doing with it and he said that for biodiesel I would need an epoxy coated drum, like a food grade drum or eith HDPE in order to avoid the risk of oxidation since these drums have bare metal walls. Is he right, or does he not know enough about bio? Thanks! J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] What are you playing at the pump for dino?
x-charset ISO-8859-1 Here in British Columbia, the current diesel price varies widely from location to location. In Sardis, where I live, diesel is currently running at 64 cents per liter. In Abbotsford, 30 kilometers to the west (the place where I work, my children attend school, and where we go to church) diesel is selling for 62 cents per liter. In Langley, the next town, folks are paying 72 cents per liter. These prices are in Canadian dollars. Across the line, in Blaine, Washington, we saw diesel for $1.60 per gallon last weekend. That would, of course, be the price in American dollars. Robert, The last time I filled up was in Yankeetown, FL and I paid $1.599 for dino. I've seen it as high as 1.75 and more and at least as low as 1.559. Same deal as you in Canada with the wide variation. I hope to soon be able to start a bio-D project and forget about the oil companies an their thievery though. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel from Ward Oil, Tampa
Alan: two tank will allow this, just use diesel for start/stop fuel. A quick switch back to diesel and you will be able to engage the main safety feature of all two-tank systems: the Back-off A*hole Closefollower Or Face Fumigation(BACOFF) system. No need to sacrifice that valuable OEM feature. This feature alone, fitted to all older, slower diesels by the clever engineers at the factory, has saved countless millions in damage to front ends of little fast moving gassers that may have otherwise suffered severe damage if diesel drivers (of 240D's in particular) had to resort to the secondary feature, the MMBB system (Meet My Mercedes Bumper), a braking system with infinitely adjustable driver input function. Timely engagement of the BACOFF system is also a great opportunity to double up for added benefit, and do those ITU's (Italian Tune Ups)! A little known option, by the way, for the 240D, was really a great fuel-saver in it's day. The already-sturdy steel bumpers of the MMBB could be replaced with optional recycled 2x12 finished Oak boards, complete with a stainless steel plate that read: DO PUSH!! This was especially useful in mountainous regions populated by heavily loaded logging trucks, and if revived, could inspire a while new generation's worth of peace and cooperation between loggers and treehuggers, although some of the logging truck drivers have been known to carry it a little too far, using it on downhill runs... On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 09:20 AM, Alan Petrillo wrote: When I learned that Ward Oil in Tampa, Florida was carying biodiesel for a few cents more than regular diesel I went down there and bought some. It was only a couple of miles out of my way, so what the heck. The general press' idea of a few cents is $1.07, aparently. The stuff was $2.55/gallon, but I filled up on it anyway. Putting one's money where one's mouth is, and all that. If I don't choke on the price it'll make a good stopgap measure until I can complete my vegoil conversion. So far, I find it has a couple of advantages, and a minor disadvantage. One advantage is that it runs more smoothly in my engine. A big advantage is that it doesn't smoke as much, so I don't get a sooty black cloud of exhaust on accelleration anymore. A disadvantage is that it doesn't smoke as much, so I can't discourage tailgaters by putting my right foot down and blowing out a big sooty black cloud anymore. ;-) AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ I know a local guy here in Gainesville that buys all his Bio-D from Ward. Apparently, if you work with them, they will cut you a better deal. This means buying 50 or more gallons at a time. This guy must be realy committed to no fossil fuel, because he continually drives the 114 miles to replenish his stock and uses it in both his and his wife, and I think his daughter's car as well. They run VW diesels, and are getting approximately 45-50 mpg, so the 2.55/gal doesn't hurt them as bad as it would me, since my trcuk only gets 12-18mpg. I plan to make my own as soon as I get all of the fuel system gremlins fixed. I cannot afford the commercial stuff. Best Regards, J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] effects of using BD without retarding the pump
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What would happen if you wanted to retain the pump setting used for petrodiesel so you could use it if you ahd to and not have the timing too far retarded. Will this cause the diesel engine to produce massive amounts of pollution and/or unmanageable EGTs? If not, are there any other downsides to leaving the pump in its dynamic timing for #2? Thanks, J.D. J.D. from what I have observed very few people change the timing on their diesels when using BD. My Hilux is a smokey runner on petroleum diesel but with biodiesel or strong BD/petro mixes the exhaust cleans up nicely. There is reportedly a slight drop in power when using BD, but my vehicle seems to run better. This might be because there is a lot of fat in the oil I use to make BD which results in a high cetane number fuel. It certainly quietens the diesel knock regards, Paul Gobert I'm running a 1986 Ford F250. She doesn't smoke excessively most of the time. I need a new injection pump, and the resultant poor timing has caused more of the grey-white smoke at startup and at high rpms. I used some bio in the fall, and the truck seemed to run smoother and quiter. It still ahd that diesel rattle that I love, but it got rid of most of the funny noises. Thjanks for the advice. J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] BD as anti wear and smog for 4 stroke gasoline engine
Hi to all Iâm please to inform our group about BD blend with gasoline fuel to power the 4 stroke gasoline engine. My company that I worked with has a fleet of service cars most of them are Japanese brand Nissan, Toyota, and Honda. As I park in parking area it happened by chance to talk to our company drivers regarding BD advantages as a proof of my claim my Toyota Revo run on BD100. On a course of our discussion I tried to convince one of the drivers to try BD on gasoline engine at 200 - 300 ml of BD to 50 liters of gasoline mixed together in fuel tank. We choose Nissan Cefiro because it emitted foul odor of unburned hydrocarbon irritating to the eyes and nose during engine warm up and idling. I poured 200 ml of BD into the tank shake the body for a while and start the engine after 5 to 7 minutes of idling speed, the exhaust odor improved dramatically and at the end of the day of driving the odor of unburned hydrocarbon was gone and engine furred better than before because BD lubricate the fuel system, the upper combustion chamber, as well as the valve port. Because of this other drivers tried in Honda car immediate result no more odor of unburned hydrocarbon and visible trace of water condensation at exhaust tail pipe as if the car was new. I tried to use BD as anti wear additives for four stroke gasoline engine for motorcycle the result was the same. Last Monday I talked to my friend who happens to be owned a surplus and modified service car; it was a gasoline engine a Toyota (surplus engine from Japan). His service car was due to yearly renewal of LTO registration, he had a problem because his old car smoke badly and one of the requirement on LTO registration is to subject his car to emission test center. The cars shall pass the Emission standard set by the government before renewal of LTO registration. I challenge him to try BD as fuel additives to his service car without any engine modification, change oil, cleaning of air filter except cleaning of exhaust pipe by water hose to remove carbon particle clinging to pipe wall. Subject the service car to emission test and the result is very promising Emission Standard CO % (V) : 3.5 HC (ppm) : 600 Running condition gradual increase of rpm Gas analyzer final result of service car were the following CO % : 1.25 HC (ppm): 278 PASSED BD as anti wear and smog additive for gasoline fuel is very encouraging because four stroke engine has weak point on lubrication of upper chamber of cylinder, valve seat port, and fuel system in case of fuel injection all of these parts need lubrication, gasoline had a thin mixture of hydrocarbon oil to lubricate these parts but it is not enough to do the job but with BD added lubrication is ensured to protect these parts. Plus the fact that BD is 11 % oxygen, it helps to achieve good combustion and reduced aromatic odor of unburned hydrocarbon. That all and thanks for the opportunity to post my messages Regards to all, Franklin Del Rosario I would only be concerned that it would cause the same effect as burning 2-cycle oil in a 4-stroke engine, namely, over a period of time, cause carbon buildup on the rings and sidewalls leading to scuffing, sticking, and maybe eventually scoring and engine failure, but certainly to poor engine performance. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] effects of using BD without retarding the pump
What would happen if you wanted to retain the pump setting used for petrodiesel so you could use it if you ahd to and not have the timing too far retarded. Will this cause the diesel engine to produce massive amounts of pollution and/or unmanageable EGTs? If not, are there any other downsides to leaving the pump in its dynamic timing for #2? Thanks, J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Plastic oil drum for Simple 5 gallon processor
I made fuel this way, in plastic buckets, for hundreds of gallons and thousands of miles. Just make sure there's a good lid between any sparks from the drill and the bucket full of methanol-containing biodiesel. I heated oil on the stove (kitchen stove or a propane camp stove) in a 5-gallon canning pot (in the US the black enamalled canning kettles are that size or sometimes a bit bigger). It took about 15 minutes to heat oil to 125F, and I agitated that batch for 15 minutes in the bucket while heating the next 5 gallons of oil on the indoor stove. It meant that in a little over one hour of work I could make 15-20 gallons of fuel, enough to wash all at once in a bigger container (at one point I had a 15gallon conical tank from a sandblaster actually) and enough to fill my VW's 15-gallon tank. Considering all the equipment was free, it was a good tradeoff (slightly labor-intensive but equipment-unintensive) that kept me from having to spend anything on a bigger processor for a good year and a half. Then I built a stirred-tank processor out of a drum, a washing machine motor, and some pulleys and bearings- $50. Now I use a $150 water heater -based processor and it's cousin Tankenstein, both of which are detailed at www.veggieavenger.com/media The fires which happened in plastic processors were in our area in Northern California, happened multiple times, and involved a 'ready-made' plastic conical processor design which used a heating element threaded into plastic PVC fitting in the bottom of the cone. If I were to use plastic for a processor I'd definitely at least heat in another container. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello J.D. Can I use a plastic 5 gallon oil drum for theSimple 5 gallon processor on the JTF website? I think Keith had in mind a metal drum, but metal oil drums in that size are few and far between around these parts. Thanks, J.D. Yes, they're metal. Mark also said metal drums are rare in the US, to my surprise, I've always had them everywhere else I've been. She seemed to have used metal buckets, but without the ridge in these drums, and I don't know what she did for a lid. Maybe she'll tell us. Another list member uses wooden lids, with a sheet of plastic underneath, uses silicon to stick split silicon hose round the rim of the processor and holds the lid down with toggle latches fastened with pop rivets. Anyway, it does say: There's no need to follow this prescription exactly -- use what's to hand, improvise. There have been fires reported with plastic processors with heating elements. But I know someone who's been using a home-built plastic processor for a couple of years and never had any trouble. His is more like a big carboy, 10 gallons, two lids. He uses a washing machine pump (laundry machine) and a washing machine heating element, epoxied in place, and fitted a bottom drain the same way. It's simple, it works fine. Go ahead and try. Best Keith Yes, as soon as I get a chance I will fix up a test batch or two. I was mainly concerned about the fumes from methanol. The processor would mostly eliminate this concern. The truck is just about ready to go. Thank you, J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Plastic oil drum for Simple 5 gallon processor
Can I use a plastic 5 gallon oil drum for theSimple 5 gallon processor on the JTF website? I think Keith had in mind a metal drum, but metal oil drums in that size are few and far between around these parts. Thanks, J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] making lye from ash
Sounds too good to be true... anyone out there making their own KOH from ash? Why can't we use soft woods? What about a little? What are some municipal sources of ash/feedstock for this process (I would not want to burn hardwood scraps and put more carbon in the atmosphere if I could find a connection to ash directly). Dave Hi Dave Trouble is the content of wood ash varies widely. Another problem is that the KOH is mixed with potassium carbonate, and some sodium too. Which may not be as big a problem as it sounds. But at any rate you'd have to test the strength each time, somehow. Hence the red cabbage juice and other natural testers. I'll be trying this quite soon, got most of what I need, except for a couple of things. Check this thread: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/16415/1 Making methanol and lye Especially lye. Nice description and slide show of producing Chlorine, Hydrogen, and Lye from table salt, using PET bottles, flashlight batteries, glue and stuff. Unfortunately that site has moved now. It's here, but I can't find this material there: http://cavemanchemistry.com/ Caveman Chemistry : Hands-on Projects in Chemical Technology But the process is described here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/28372/ Best Keith Isn't all of the wood that is burned part of the closed carbon cycle as opposed to burning fossil fuels which have been out of the cycle for a long time? Also, I know my ashes from the fireplace can get pretty caustic when I let the sit with a little water in them over the period of a couple of weeks, but i have no idea of it would be strong enough for a biodiesel reaction. It was strong enough to burn the bottom out of my ash pan though. Most people use some softwood to get a fire started, even some paper. I'm just wondering if this would render them unusable. J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sins of Emisssion
J.D. wrote: http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2003/11/we_601_05b.html November 7, 2003 Sins of Emisssion It's well known that former Utah governor Michael O. Leavitt, the new head of the Environmental Protection Agency, is no friend of the environment. So it was only fitting that the Bush administration timed yet another rollback of environmental protections to coincide with Leavitt's first day on the job. Leavitt officially started his term as head of the EPA on Thursday, a day after EPA lawyers, on instructions from on high, announced that they would drop 70 investigations into coal-burning power plants that violated pollution laws. The move will benefit the utility industry, possibly saving it tens of billions of dollars' worth of pollution-control upgrades. The move comes as little surprise: it's part of a broader, systematic strategy on the part of the Bush administration to weaken the EPA to the point of irrelevance. snip Keith, We don't want the EPA to tighten down too much on emissions or there will be no new diesels made. Uhh - sorry, how does backing off on emissions controls on coal-burning power plants relate to new diesels being made? Not that there are any being made now in the US to speak of - 1% of new car sales. Want a diesel? Buy a truck. Some 30,000 Americans die each year because the federal government is unwilling to take meaningful steps to enforce the Clean Air Act's standards for coal-fired power plants. So never mind that, just get us our new diesels? Anyway, new diesels are clean - what's not clean is the US fuel, it's filthy, amongst the worst in the world. That's the problem, not the diesels themselves (if any), nor the EPA, nor the Bush gang's murderous rollbacks. 2006-7 they say they'll clean the fuel up. Good, fine, then you'll get your new clean diesels. From Europe and Japan, and you'd have them already if the US weren't 17 years behind Europe in cleaning up its fuel. Detroit? Well, don't hold your breath (unless you're living near one of those 70 dirty power plants). Here in Japan, Tokyo, and now other cities, have staged anti-diesel campaigns. It's an easy vote-catcher, and the car companies played along, more or less forcing people to get rid of their diesel cars and buy new gasoline models, lots of car sales, and of course that means more fuel consumption, lots of fuel sales, so the fuel importers loved it too. Pity about the Kyoto protocol (so raise taxes), and that gasoline cars are dirtier than diesels anyway, and that the campaign didn't attack the culprits - the fuel importers with their dirty fuel. They fought shy of taking on the powerful lobby groups. But it's having some good effects anyway. The fuel importers have been chivvied into providing ultra-low sulphur diesel fuel quite a lot earlier than they'd planned, for one thing. All trucks visiting the restricted cities have had to fit particulate filters. And Tokyo now reports air-pollution is right down. Enter biodiesel... But that's another story. That's a not very good way of going about it, but at least some good is coming of it. What good will come of the EPA's back-down, other than to the good ol' boys of the coal industry, and 30,000 less people to worry about providing future medical care and welfare for? If you think that last bit's preposterous, have a look at this: Smoking can seriously aid your economy -- Tobacco firm tells Czech government how cigarette smokers benefit state coffers, The Guardian Weekly July 19 2001 http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4222888,00.html I actually agree that coal plants need to be more tightly regulated. They are pretty dirty. I live right up the road from one. Its not that bad froma visible point of view but I know all that stuff can't be too good for us or the environment. I'm not convinced that anthropogenic particulates present a real health hazard in the concentrations that they exist in the environment now. Many others, however, are, and much research backs it up. Anyway, you don't need to be convinced, neither does anybody, it's obviously a case for the Precautionary Principle, much as the US might officially be in denial about that. Keith J.D. Keith, I'd be interested in hearing about some of these studies. I don't disregard them, liek I said I'm just not convinced. I find it kind of hard to believe, but I'd like to see us move away from coal power regardless. No, I'm not saying that I care abou the new diesels more than those 30K estimated people. Like you, I just don't think they are killers. I agree about the fact that there aren't many diesel cars in the U.S. either, but much of AMerica's use of gasoline is in inefficient light truck and SUV gas engines. I'm saying if they could be replaced with diesels, and prefferably ULSD fuel or biodiesel, we'd have a lot less emissions. The 3/4 ton and up pickups are where
Re: [biofuel] Sins of Emisssion
http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2003/11/we_601_05b.html November 7, 2003 Sins of Emisssion It's well known that former Utah governor Michael O. Leavitt, the new head of the Environmental Protection Agency, is no friend of the environment. So it was only fitting that the Bush administration timed yet another rollback of environmental protections to coincide with Leavitt's first day on the job. Leavitt officially started his term as head of the EPA on Thursday, a day after EPA lawyers, on instructions from on high, announced that they would drop 70 investigations into coal-burning power plants that violated pollution laws. The move will benefit the utility industry, possibly saving it tens of billions of dollars' worth of pollution-control upgrades. The move comes as little surprise: it's part of a broader, systematic strategy on the part of the Bush administration to weaken the EPA to the point of irrelevance. Companies already accused of violating pollution laws will be let off the hook. Under the New Source Review program, a provision of the Clean Air Act of 1970, oil refineries, power plants, and industrial boilers were required to install pollution controls when making extensive improvements that increased harmful emissions. While for many years this program was not enforced, in 1999 the EPA actually started making firms accountable for air pollution. Once a plant had been marked with an NOV (notice of violation), its case was traditionally taken to the Justice Department where legal action was taken to either sue the company in violation, or make a settlement. By the end of 2000, two of the nation's largest power companies had agreed to cut emissions by two-thirds. Once Bush entered office, most of this progress was reversed. The two firms backed out of their agreements. And modifications by the Bush administration to the New Source Review program, to come into effect next month, will clear as many as 70 pollution violators currently being investigated of any responsibility. The new rules say that as long as a renovation project costs less than 20 percent of the power generated by the units, no pollution controls are necessary. Experts say that this would clear most of the plants currently under investigation of a responsibility to clean up their acts. Environmentalists are outraged--and several senior Democratic Senators have already called for a review of the decision. Environmentalist John Walke, director of the NRDC's Clean Air Project says: The Bush administration's clean air rollback, like the smokestack emissions it will permit, really stinks. But it is music to the ears of utility companies, which stand to save hundreds of millions, or even billions, of dollars from the rule change. Proponents justify the changes in terms of cost savings -- the EPA and the Justice Department have spent tens of millions of dollars on Clinton-era cases -- but they're also a handy way for the Bush administration to give back to some of their financial backers. The utility industry was one of Bush's biggest campaign contributors, and exempting them from having to buy expensive pollution control equipment makes for a nice thankyou. The rollback on emissions grew out of a recommendation by Vice President Dick Cheney, who urged a study of pollution enforcement after industry complaints. As Osha Gray Davidson reported in the Sept/Oct 2003 of Mother Jones, Cheney's influence is (even) more malign than you might think: The Cheney task force is behind another of the administration's pet projects-protecting utilities from having to comply with a law enacted 26 years ago. Some 30,000 Americans die each year because the federal government is unwilling to take meaningful steps to enforce the Clean Air Act's standards for coal-fired power plants. As for the EPA's new boss, it's no small irony that Leavitt's one virtue in the eyes of environmentalists was that he had a hand in a successful air-quality partnership project to clean up the haze over the Grand Canyon. But now it seems that his air pollution record will go the way of his approach to land use and wildlife protection. The Montana Kaimin has this to say about his environmental record: [T]hese feats aren't enough to compensate for his slips: his hand in pushing to reopen Utah's public lands to development, his support of a multimillion-dollar Legacy Highway which would cut through delicate wetlands bordering the Great Salt Lake and, as a governor, bringing suit against the EPA, calling federal clean-air standards totally irrational. This move is just one more in a series of anti-enviro measures that point to the the Bush administration's overall goal of making the EPA more industry friendly, no matter the environmental cost. The Bush administration has sought to cut the EPA's enforcement division by nearly one-fifth, to its lowest level on record. For
Re: [biofuel] taking the plunge--have questions
Tom, I found my Jetta at http://portland.craigslist.org/car/ Sue Keith Addison wrote: Hello Tom Keith, one thing I'd like to know is how did you so easily come by an '86 Jetta. I've looked and looked and can't find one anywhere. Tom I didn't, Sue did. You have to read the little thingies right to see who wrote what. If your mail program isn't showing them, then adjust it so it does, or get one that does - you can't do email properly without them. In this message there are three layers of them - three means Sue wrote it, two means I wrote it, one means you wrote it. Which doesn't help you in your Jetta quest, but maybe Sue'll tell you how she did it. Keith Tom, A little advice on finding a diesel... remember that you are looking for a vehicle that represents 1% of passenger vehicles in the U.S. Most of us who have bought an older diesel, whether for environmental or other reasons, have had to look outside their local area. Autotrader.com is a good place to start. Also, look close to home at local used car lots, but remember that private seller vehicles tend to be better and cheaper than dealer ones, but this is not always the case. You might get lucky, but be patient and don't settle! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] looking for an engine
I'm trying to run a bicycle on bio-fuel. The only engines I can find run on gas. Is it possible to convert or find a small diesel engine. thank you I have no idea if this would work or not, but i've seen small 1-2HP diesel engines for pump applications in an industrail catalogue at work. I don't think the boss still has it though, but you might search the net for something like that, cause they are out there. I just don't know if you could use one for your application or if you could, if you'd want to spend enough money to do it right. J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles. No Late Fees Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/JYdFFC/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A good use for dino-fuels!
Sorry, but that's a very miserable way to go. Wouldn't wish that type of demise on my worst enemy. However, shackling him to an old moldy dungeon wall and giving him nothing but a bread and water ration until he repented and promised to cloister himself in a Alpine monastery for the rest of his days would suit me fine. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Ware, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel (E-mail) biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 2:26 PM Subject: FW: [biofuel] A good use for dino-fuels! I've got 10 gallons I'd be glad to send. john ware I thought you left wingers were supposed to be the compassionate, tolerant ones. I wouldn't ahve said such a thing about the previous occupant of the White House, despite my emphatic disagreement with him on the issues. Thankfully our leaders don't come and go taht way, what I wish on my political enemies is ouster from their miserable offices. J.D. -Original Message- From: Frederick E. Finch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:11 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] A good use for dino-fuels! SIPHON ANYONE? A lobbyist, on his way home from work in Washington, D.C., comes to a dead halt in traffic and thinks to himself, Wow, this seems worse than usual. He notices a police officer walking between the lines of stopped cars, so he rolls down his window and asks, Officer, what's the hold-up? The officer replies, The President is depressed, so he stopped his motorcade and is threatening to douse himself in gasoline and set himself on fire. He says no one believes his stories about why we went to war in Iraq, or the connection between Saddam and al-Qa'ida, or that his tax cuts will help anyone except his wealthy friends; the press called him on the lie about Iraq trying to buy uranium from Niger, and now Campbell Brown is threatening to sue him for a sexual innuendo he made at a recent press conference. So we're taking up a collection for him. The lobbyist asks, How much have you got so far? The officer replies, About 14 gallons, but a lot of folks are still siphoning. Frederick E. FinchDelivery System Manager MINITEX Delivery Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (612) 624-3374 Direct 15 Andersen Library(612) 624-4002 Office 222 21st Avenue South (800) 462-5348 WATS Minneapolis MN 55455(612) 624-4508 FAX Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] He's neither Was: A good use for dino-fuels!
IMHO, ol' Junior is neither a right nor a left winger. I know very well, the true Compassionate Conservative point of view. And though he calls himself so ... where the rubber meets the road .. he doesn't act it. His ahem .. true colors show. Gang, make NO mistake about it .. he is NOT a true Compassionate Conservative. It's just a name he hides under ... so that when lefty's try to beat him up, it's the conservatives that take the beating and not him. Very slick trick. Just to get Republican people support. True Compassionate Conservatism has fallen by the wayside many, many dynasties ago. It's office personnel has long been replaced by new people ... of a new paradigm. People that should be called by a NEW party name. The Corporato-power-o-greed-o party maybe?? The wage-minus-rent-is-zero-u-B-my-slave-o party maybe?? Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] You might care to give a little time to rethinking your paradigm. One does not have to be a left winger to despise those who either ignorantly or wantonly wreak as much havoc as has done Junior. Just ask a random sampling of 100 Republicans the next time you walk down the street. Todd Swearingen FWIW, I don't completely agree with the Republicans or the Democrats. I find the Republicans too pro big business, and I find the Democrats far too anti-wealth, achievment, and economic freedom. Remember, it is not money that is the root of all evil, it is teh love of it. I think we will all agree that many in corporate America have forgotten that with their economic liberty comes the responsibility to be honest, to pay their employees enough to live, plus have some left over, and to follow the law like the rest of us. At the same time, is it really right to take 55% of someone's income because they have a little more than the next guy, even if they came by every cent they have in a most honest and worthy manner? I also think that we should be developing alternative energy sources, because fossil fuels are a finite resource and their continued burning common sense tells us will lead the environment to be less clean than it could be. I also disagree with the Republicans on their inane war against drugs. It is a huge waste of resources. But I also have a bone to pick with teh democrats on the abortion issue. I just don't think its right. I am pro private gun ownership as well, another right that the left wants to take from us. So there is my political paradigm in brief. You all can criticize it if you want J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ArdFIC/hP.FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Popular Mechanics article
Alex wrote: Dan, I disagree with what you say. If sun radiation was linked to cancer it doesn't really mean it's causing it. sorry I can't let this go by. Wrong, wrong, wrong... nothing, plants, animals, nothing would survive on the surface of the planet without ozone filtering the short wavelength light. (sunlight just the same) Current evolutionary theory suggests that life began a few meters below the surface of the earth (under water) due to the deadly flux of sunlight, about 4 billion years ago- give or take a few hundred million. This is what causing cancer - chemicals which accumulate in the body. meaningless. food and water are chemicals. Sunscreens too. Basically, underlying cause is luck of healthy food and lifestyle. so tell me, what is health food? Broccoli? nope, it's known to contain substances which cause cancer. Vitamins? careful, there is a condition which can be deadly, overdosing on fat soluble vitamins, particularly A. On the contrary, sun = life. also too much sun or sun of the short wavelength variety mean death_ actually, it means cross-linked DNA which can lead to mutations and/or cancer. The statistics are overwhelming. More exposure to sun correlates with higher incidence of cancer. Water already contains some radioactive isotopes of Hydrogen - this is what heavy water is. well, only sort of. heavy water generally refers to deuterium oxide, which is not radioactive. Generally speaking, natural radioactivity by itself is quite safe, or may be beneficial, Phooey, Uranium miners have a much higher incidence of cancer than the general population. Any source of ionizing radiation be it alpha particles, beta particles, gamma rays all cause defects in DNA. Sorry but you are sorely in need of a short course in health physics. Short answer is too much of anything causes cancer. Too much radioactivity definitely increases the risk. I'm not quite sold on the radon is deadly theory. If it caused so much lung cancer, hopw come everyone we heard about who dies from lung cancer gets it because they smoke, live with a smoker, or used toxic industrial or radioactive chemicals? Another reason I think we may be seeing more cancer is that people are living longer, long enough to die from chronic diseases like cancer and heart disease instead of epidemics, at least here in the west. But I hear you on the concerns about all of the chemicals in our food and water, and especially the profusion of new OTC and prescription drugs. No one knows for sure what these will do to us over the long haul. J.D. -- Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob --- Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe. - Frank Zappa --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Sources of methanol in teh US?
Well, I'm ready to make a couple of test batches of biodiesel, and I just wonder what are some good sources of methanol, common places that would carry it that Iwouldn't have to order over the internet for, and deal with those nasty HAZMAT shipping fees. I know someone mentioned methyl hydrate as a good source for small batches, but that was in Canada. What is it used for and where can I find it? Thanks so much, J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Good car to buy?????
I'm looking to buy an older diesel car in which to eventually start running biodiesel in. I'm a student, so it has to be low$$$. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jeff Vancouver, BC, CANADA Areyou looking for a car or truck or van/suv what? If a car, I'd say find an old Mercedes diesel. Word is they are excellent for biofuels experimentation and very tough. Late 70s and early 80s models still have real value. An older VW IDI might also be good. If your looking for vans and trucks, the old Ford 6.9L diesel found in the 1983-87 vans and pickups has a good reputation. The Dodge 12V Cummins diesel is also a good motor, some say superior to the Fords. The only thing you might want to avoid is the late 70s to early 80s GM 350/5.7L diesel. It is an engine that was converted from gasoline and very poorly designed. My grandfather ran one of those until his death, but he was very handy, and aparently also very lucky. Best of luck J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Never read a bigger pile of horse manure in my life...
Todd, How can you say that there is no such thing as swing voters? You're implying that EVERY voter actually considers the issues and candidates and makes an informed choice. The truth of the matter is that many people still vote on party lines, though that number is decreasing. It's true that no single group determines the outcome of an election; but candidates have a fairly good idea of who their supporters and opposition are before they enter a race. That said, campaigns don't generally waste resources courting the die-hard supporters, likewise they don't bother trying to sway the violent opposition. What they do is concentrate on those demographics and districts that could go either way. While this group may change for each race, it is definitely a Swing Vote. BB, Ther most assuredly are swing voters. It just varies from election to election on who they are. We can hope that most everyone looks at the issues and makes an informed choice, but many people vote along party lines because of platforms, or at least planks in a platform. Most of you guys probably vote democrat or green because of their perceived better environmetal record. Does that mean you are being sheep? No, just that these issues are more important to you than other important issues. The nature of the two party system is that you don't always get what you want(exactly). J.D. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:36 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Never read a bigger pile of horse manure in my life... Yahhhhorse manure is definitely related to biofuels. When are the pundents going to realize that every voter is a swing voter, that there is no single constituency that determines one outcome or another - that from start to finish it's precious little more predictable than what shirt will end up on top when the dryer stops... (Of course it's considerably more predictable what shirt ends up where if everything is line dried.doh!) http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8904 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1706996/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http:/www.ediets.com/start.cfm?co de=30509media=atkins http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1706996/rand=919403804 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fuel For School
Hello to all, News from Eufaula, AL. Last night the city council approved a proposal to collect wvo and process it into biodiesel to operate the local school bus fleet with excess to the municipal fleet. We have also been encourage to and have applied for a grant from the State of Alabama (can you believe it) for $50,000.00 to help us fund this effort. Probably know about that in a couple of weeks. To Keith, I can send you a copy of my grant proposal if you would like. Let me know. Can send it as an attachment to you. Let me know. Best wishes to all, Bill Clark That's great!! Hope it works out well for you all. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Scarcity of Diesels Available For Purchase?
240D's are painfully slow, but very good cars. Fine on the hiway, and if it's in good shape, $500 is a good price. I'd pay to have a Mercedes mechanic check it out. Craig Grahams wrote: At 10:54 PM 9/3/2003 +, you wrote: Scarcity of Diesels Available For Purchase? I was perusing the trader paper tonight. What do you all think? Mercedes Benz 1979 240D Runs, inspected, $500. Should I check it out? Or is it too old to consider? What am I looking for? Caroline I don't know about the Mercedes in particular, but go look at it, and start it up. It should light off as soon as the glow plug light goes off. If it doesn't that may not mean its a bad vehicle, but it could mean that the engine is tired, low compression=on its last legs. It could also be the glow plugs, bad batteries, weak starter or bad inj. pump. Take off the engine oil filler cap, and look for smoke rising out of the filler. This is called blowby. Its caused by worn valves or rings allowing crankcase oil to leak into the combustion chambers and be burned. A little may be OK, again, I don't know much about the Mercedes diesel, but at least on the old International Harvester IDIs some is permissible due to a high compression ratio. But if its boiling out of there like a kettle, that means trouble. Also, look at the exhaust pipe. If there is any blue smoke, you are burning oil, and the engine has issues. A little black smoke or white smoke is OK= fuel system issues, usually can be ignored or cheaply fixed. Finally check the coolant condition in the radiator, should be clean and green. On the other hand for $500, if it starts right, and runs good, you might just buy it. Even if the engine is tired you might get some life out of it, and it might be in excellent shape. If you want to be sure, get a certified mechanic who works on diesels to check it for you. Let us know what you do. Good luck! I'm sure you'll find a good one! J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: methanol in dry gas
HEET is 99% methanol according to this MSDS sheet. http://www.sierranevada.edu/life/safety/msdslocl/heet HOWEVER!! there is also .2% xylenes, and an unknown percentage of two trade secret anti-corrosion chemicals. This solvent report indicates good quality methanol, but should be distilled first: HEET¨ Gas Line Antifreeze Address:www.goldeagle.com Purchased:4 Pack of 12oz bottles At:Walmart - $3.59 Amount Distilled:500 ml Results: Methyl Alcohol distilled over nicely Last 10 ml evaporated left slightly oily residue Rating: GOOD - Should distill first The other option is Racing Fuel. You should be able to buy 99% methanol at some race tracks, and most racing fuel stores. You can order it over the internet also, but there tends to be a UPS hazardous transport fee of 20 bux in addition to shipping and price of material. Daryl www.forgotton.net 2000 Ford F-350 Powerstroke crewcab 4x4 --- girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heet brand gas line antifreeze, the yellow bottle only, is 99% methanol according to someone who researched it with the company mark Why do you say it should be distilled first. Isn't 99% pure good enough? Why not just use it in teh transesterification process? Shouldn't the other stuff drop out in the washing phase? J.D. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Scarcity of Diesels Available For Purchase?
On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:00:08 -0600, you wrote: Please don't get me wrong, but, I don't think that $7000, is an inexpensive amount to pay for a vehicle. It is a heck of a lot, I was unemployed for 2 years when I got it, for that matter I'm still unemployed. That $7000 vehicle is the most expensive purchase ( other than the house the wife and I own ) that I have ever made, up until this purchase, the most expensive I ever bought was $3500 ). You made what I thought was a good point, even if it partly disagreed with mine. It was in part, unless I misinterpret, that if one tries hard one can find a used diesel vehicle to fit one's budget (whatever budget that may be). And although I do agree that determination and perspicacity can go a long way toward finding that car of one's desires, and within one's budget, I was putting an idea out there that I've recently taken to thinking about and so I will flesh it out a bit better where I was coming from. Diesels go at a premium becuase if well cared for, the will last two to three times longer or more than a gasser, diesel is cheaper than gas in many locales, and there are fewer to start off with than gasoline. A buddy of mine wrote an article about diesels and cited that only one quarter of one percent of new passenger vehicles are diesel. In addition, old diesels, which is what most biofuels enthusiasts are into are relatively easy to work on. Except for major engine repair, they require nothing that the weekend warrior cannot do in his garage or on her driveway. Additionally the people who buy diesels tend to get attached to them, so it seems like what is offered for sale is mostly crap. I ran into this when I purchased a diesel F-250 p/u. Most of the trucks I looked at were tired, and had major mechanical and or cosmetic issues. I was blessed and finally found a good one but had to be patient, and in the end go across state lines. The key is to be patient. Also looking on diesel enthusiast forums is helpful. Private owners tend to have better and cheaper vehicles than do dealers. I stuck it out cause I love diesels and want to get into renewable energies, and wasn't excited about feeding a gas guzzling gasoline V-8 that might get 8-10 mpg When it comes to Major-Manufacturer Production Highway-Capable Battery EVs, they've been made not only scarce, but virtually non-existent. Only Toyota (maybe one or two others?) really made them for sale, and not just for lease, and there were a million-and-one impediments to leasing or buying any of the major-manufacturer efforts. Those vehicles that have come off-lease have been taken back from their leasors, often forcibly (in that the leasors didn't want to give them up and sometimes offered to pay mucho dinero for them). To get to the point, if electricity is an alt-fuel, then the means to utilize this alt-fuel have not been there except if one was determined and-or wealthy well-beyond the determination or wealth exhibited by most of us in spending hours searching through the papers for a Used Vehicle. So, even though I don't know as much about biodiesel or the vehicles that use it, I did notice, in looking for a used diesel recently, that there didn't seem to be that many. My project was cut much short by circumstances which led me to make a very quick decision, and I do think it will be possible for me to get one in the future when I have more time. It is not as black and white a matter as with EVs. At the same time, I sort of wondered if we might give consideration to the matter without dismissing it too easily. Even though, with determination and know-how, one can purchase and use a diesel with biodiesel in the States, is it possible that on a macro-level, the vehicles are scarcer and more expensive than they need to be, and that this is a de facto partial impediment to a quicker broader adoption of the alt-fuel in question? Sure, one could easily come up with the many excellent explanations that we've all read (the cleaner fuel hasn't been there, the consumer demand hasn't been there, etc.) but I'm used to seeing these reasons-excuses-whatever with respect to EVs, and I'm used to discovering that sometimes they're not the entire story, so that's part of why I'm putting this out there. It would be interesting to figure out, just for one thing, if a used VW diesel goes for a premium, per mile, than a comparable gasoline vehicle. Perhaps that would be an indication of underground demand for the diesel feature? With respect to the many excellent points that you and others have made on these topics MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] pending senate bill to provide biodiesel fuel credit
FYI - They favor virgin oil because its use favors farmers who grow soybeans, peanuts, and other good feedstock crops. I agree, though, both types of biodiesel should have the credit. Hope it passes. J.D. There is a bill sponsored by Senator Charles Grassley, who chairs the Senate Finance Committee, to lessen and amend the excise taxes and to increase the fuel credits for biofuels (alcohol and biodiesel are mentioned specifically). The bill is called the Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit VEETC Act of 2003. The details are available either through www.thomas.gov or www.senate.gov. The bill amends the IRS Code of 1986, specifically Subpart D of part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1 (whew!). Basically, the bill provides (among other things) a credit for biodiesel used as fuel of $.50 for biodiesel made from any feedstock, and $1.00 for biodiesel made solely from virgin oils. This credit is remitted at the pump. Now, I am delighted that this will mean an immediate $1.00 per gallon drop in the cost of the World Energy biodiesel I currently purchase in Seattle (right Graham?). However, I encourage those interested to write the members of this committee, as well as their own legislators (where the two do not coincide) asking them to grant the $1.00 credit for both types of biodiesel. Why should biodiesel from WVO be put at a competitive disadvantage? regards to all, thor skov __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Testing of biodiesel
Is there any lab that will test a sample of hombrewed bioD to see if it meets specs? I appreciate it J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] IDI vs. DI
Well, then, I got it backwards. So if Mercedes are IDI, what are some other examples of IDI diesels available in the US? Thanks. Maud St. Louis, MO Maud Essen wrote: I'm reading up on the preference for IDI vs. DI diesels for burning WVO. If Mercedes diesels are DI, what are some examples of IDI diesels? Thanks. Well, Mercedes, actually. Most of them are IDI. As a general rule of thumb, if something in the vehicle's information doesn't say Direct Injection then it is almost certainly indirect injection. AP Maud, ALmoll of todays diesel engines ar DIs, I can't say about the mercedes benz. I will say that the old VW diesels were IDIs, and so were the pre 94 IH/Ford can't say that I know when GM and Dodge switced to computerized DI or if the Dodge/Cummins engines were ever IDI. I just purchase a 6.9L IH IDI V8 in an 86 F250 p/u. I will let you all know how I like it after a few months, hope to be running it on biodiesel as soon as I can find a reliable source or make something I know won't damage it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Maud Essen Essential Services 4163 W. Pine Blvd. St. Louis, MO 63108-2801 314-531-8098 (voice) 775-593-6428 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] I need to buy some biodiesl(not make)for my car ?????
I live in Beaverton/Hillsboro, Oregon area and need to buy fuel for my 1981 datsun 810 diesel. Info as to where I can purchase biodiesel or any other related information would be happily received. Thank You, Tammus. Go to the national biodiesel distributors boar- www.biodiesel.org- and click on the link for buying biodiesel. That will be a good start. Good luck, JD Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Need some advice please
Pathtofreedom, Consider a Ford E-250 or E350 Club Wagon with t he old 6.9 diesel. It won't set any speed records, but it is an indirect injected engine which makes it ideal for hombrewed biofuels or SVO/WVO conversion. Some of these vans are of the 12 or more passenger variety. With the right gears, they can get 15-20 mpg if ya take it easy. good luck Before you buy an auto, you would serve yourself well to make some biodiesel in order to get familiar enough with it to discern whether or not you want to go that route. My guess is that if you're already organic and collecting scraps for compost that you'll take to it like a frog to water (French frog, American, whatever...). There is one small area that you need to clarify in your own mind at the moment though - that being the difference between vegetable oil conversion kits and biodiesel. If you're on the go 24/7/365 and have no desire to get under the hood and start tinkering mechanically, you may wish to go with biodiesel. It's no more difficult to produce than it is to brew beer or can your own veggies or plant your own garden. On the down side, you have to take time out to brew the fuel. If you have mechanical inclinations, the veg oil conversion could be your cup of tea. A tidy investment up front and some mechanical adaptation and you can forego having to brew anything. You may wish to contact the Ed Beggs and Steve Spences of the world (or at least of the North American continent) for specs as to how the veg oil conversions respond in colder climes. In either event, neither venues are exceptionally difficult. Both have their idiosyncrisies. But as said above, it sounds as if you'd take to either quite easily. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: pathtofreedom [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 11:11 AM Subject: [biofuel] Need some advice please Hi, all! I'm a newbie here and have been lurking for a couple days, reading posts. My family and I are interested in converting to biodiesel. But before we can do that we'll have to purchase a diesel car. We have a large family and go on lots of camping trips, so a small car like a Mercedes is out of the question - even though I have read that they are the best to convert.Anyhow, we are looking at something more like a diesel Suburban. How different is it to convert a large vehicle like a Suburban than, say a Mercedes? Will a GreaseCar kit suffice? Have any of you had experience with (www.elsbett.com)? Or is there any kit you'd recommend? We currently own a 74 VW camper van and have a fondness for VW vans. Are there any VW vans that run on diesel? While browsing through websites, I've only seen converted Jetta' Passats, Beetle, Rabbit and Mercedes - is there such a thing as a diesel VW van? We are in a perfect/ideal situation, we deliver organic produce to restaurants practically every day. We already pick up kitchen scraps for our worms, rabbits, ducks and chickens so we figured why not add pickups of veggie oil to fuel our car? I've been reading (and printing) a lot from the many internet sites (including JTF - great site BTW!) Sorry if I haven't explained myself well and for these rambling questions - just learning the lingo! ;-) Thanks for any assistance - I'm a bit new at this so any info will be appreciated. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fw: The ethanol markcet
Pieter, How about ethyl ester biodiesel? I'm sure many people would be interested, since ethanol is both safer and more environmentally friendly than methanol. Where do you live? Can you keep me informed about making ethanol out of cellulose ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: alon s. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 6:43 PM Subject: [biofuel] Fw: The ethanol markcet - Original Message - From: alon s. To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 11:09 PM Subject: Fw: The ethanol markcet - Original Message - From: alon s. To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 2:48 PM Subject: The ethanol markcet Hello groop I am thinking about building a stiller and producing ethanol. since I can not sell it as a gasolin fuel due to the fact that som modification has to be doun to the car. I am looking for a claient that will wont to by ethanol . does anybody have an Idear for a markcet for ethanol ,exepte for viacel fuel? In adition I'm looking for information on methan production plans instruction and so on . So far I visited meny web sights but incunterd only dule metirial, exept ,from on sight with minimal instruction but with some pictures explaning how to build a small digdesture http://biorealis.com/digester/construction.html Hope you can recommand on some usfull information yours dearly alon [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
