Re: [Biofuel] Brazil sugar fields

[r]

from going poor, biofuels may be too little too late to rescue their 
economies.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


With high oil prices,
world is rediscovering sugar-based fuel
By Todd Benson  The New York Times
MAY 25, 2005
International Herald Tribune
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/24/business/sugar.php 


CATANDUVA, BrazilNot long ago, residents of this lush
cane-growing region in southern Brazil needed to
keep a close eye on the price of sugar in world markets
to know if the local farmers were hiring or firing.

These days, though, most people in this small farming town
seem more preoccupied with the price of oil. And with
good reason: Ever since global oil prices started their
staggering climb early last year, demand for inexpensive
alternative fuels like cane-based ethanol has risen
substantially, helping to line the pockets of Brazilian
cane farmers while also making them less vulnerable to
the swings of the sugar market.

"Ethanol is on its way to becoming a commodity just like oil,
and the price of oil is one of the main reasons why," said
José Fernandes Rio, a director at Usina Cerradinho, one of
eight sugar mills and ethanol distilleries scattered around
Catanduva, which is spending heavily to increase production.

Flush with cash from a recovery in global sugar prices,
many millers are spending to increase output and
upgrade port terminals, mills and distilleries.

According to a survey by ProCana, a research group in
Ribeirão Preto, 12.5 billion reals, or $5.2 billion,
has been earmarked for 40 new mills and distilleries
over the next five years. 


Demand is driven in part by the popularity in Brazil of
cars that run on either gasoline or ethanol, or any
combination of the two. Lured by the low cost of
alcohol - it sells for a little more than half the
price of gasoline - Brazilians have been buying
these so-called flex-fuel cars in droves.

Because no other country has an ethanol distribution
network as extensive as Brazil's, it is unlikely that
flex-fuel cars will become an international trend
any time soon. But with world oil prices hovering
around $50 a barrel, governments around the globe
are looking for ways to replace gasoline with ethanol.

Almost a dozen countries, including Canada, Sweden and
the United States, have begun blending ethanol with
gasoline, a practice that has been mandatory in
Brazil for years. This helps keep a lid on pump prices
while also reducing fuel emissions, a requirement for
countries that signed environmental treaties like
the Kyoto Protocol.

As pressure mounts on the European Union to comply with
the World Trade Organization's order that it do away with
sugar subsidies, more foreign sugar producers and
trading houses are likely to set their sights on
Brazil to keep their businesses alive.

Theo Spettman, chief executive of Südzucker of Germany,
the biggest sugar producer in Europe, said at a São Paulo
seminar this month that the company was looking for
investment opportunities in Brazil. French companies
like Louis Dreyfus, Tereos and Sucden have already
set up shop in Brazil.

"The big players in the sugar industry in Europe
are not going to stop being big just because
their subsidies are going to end," said Josias Messias,
president of ProCana. 

"They know they're going to have to invest here." 


Other countries, like Australia and Thailand, are turning to
Brazil for help to develop their own ethanol industries,
to feed demand for affordable energy in Asia, especially
from China.  India, the No. 2 sugar producer in the world
after Brazil, is also scrambling to spread the use of
ethanol as it seeks to reduce its reliance on foreign oil
even as its auto fleet expands along with its middle class.
--- 



In Brazil's sugar fields, the harvest is energized

High oil prices push demand for cane-based ethanol
By TODD BENSON  New York Times
May 24, 2005
HoustonChronicle.com 
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3195058


CATANDUVA, BRAZIL - Not long ago, residents of this
lush cane-growing region in southern Brazil needed to keep a
close eye on the price of sugar in world markets to know if
the local farmers were hiring or firing.

These days, however, most people in this small farming town
seem more preoccupied with the price of oil. And with
good reason: Ever since global oil prices started their
staggering climb early last year, demand for inexpensive
alternative fuels such as cane-based ethanol has skyrocketed,
helping to line the pockets of Brazilian cane farmers while
also making them less vulnerable to the swings of the sugar
market.

"Ethanol is on its way to becoming a commodity just like oil,
and the price of oil is one of the main reasons why," said Jose
Fernandes Rio, a director at Usina Cerradinho, one of eight
sugar mills and ethanol distilleries scattered around
Catanduva, which is spending heavily to increase production.

The growing demand for ethanol — or alcohol, as most
Brazilians call it — is fueling an investment boom in

[Biofuel] Electromagnetic Pulse Alert

[r]

On C-SPAN, June 21 2005, I saw a
fascinating account on how a terrorist nuclear attack can
disable/destroy all our electronic devices: computers,PDAs, cellular
phones, TVs, TIVOs, pagers, even many cars, trucks and RVs. All of
these devices dead, made inoperable,useless, so many doorstops and
paperweights created by a terrorist nuclear bomb/missile's
ElectroMagnetic Pulse (EMP). EMP can disable electronics as far away
as 3700 miles. Roscoe Bartlett's presentation on C-SPAN showed that
such an attack can disable the american economy for a long time, set
it back at least a hendred (100) years and create millions of
casualties. 
Since the damage can be so great and so
widespread, we are ALL in it together. The banks WILL be affected. The
consumers WILL be affected. The buainesses' operations WILL be
disrupted. If customers can't get money out of the banks, they WON'T
be able to buy your product or service. Let me stress it again: we
are ALL in this together. You WON'T be able to get on the Internet
(assuming that all your electronics haven't been destroyed first)
UNLESS your ISP can itself get on the Internet.


Yet, there is hope in the form of
defensive measures. Enter these words in the Google search box
:”shielded rooms” or “EMP” or “NEMP” or “Faraday cages”
or “anechoic chamber”.




I have NO business interests in the
companies mentioned. 


The Polyphaser Corporation
www.polyphaser.com




Here are some Pointers:
-
The Electromagnetic Bomb - a Weapon of Electrical
Mass Destruction
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/kopp/apjemp.html


Nuclear Weapons Effects


Www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/intro/nuke-effects.htm
Nuclear Weapon EMP Effects
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm


Electromagnetic Pulse
http://www.physics.northwestern.edu/classes/2001Fall/Phyx135-2/19/emp.htm




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Electromagnetic Pulse Alert

[r]

Title: RE: [Biofuel] Electromagnetic Pulse Alert




The Chinese and the Vietnamese know all about these technologies and
are not afraid of telling us about that they do.  It is all over their
newspapers.  Like a snake that will strike if you get too close, the
Bush administration better beware.  The American Army doesn't have
total supremacy anymore.  

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  

  We use these polyphaser lightning arrestors on all
our solar array installs.
  
we have several lightning prevention devices we use that are ALSO rated
for EMP
  
at least it says so on the box
  
blah blah up to xxx joules of surge at xxx nanosecond clamp time
  
they are really not all that expensive considering how much the arrays
and inverters cost
  
mel
  
  
-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Fri 7/1/2005 2:13 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Cc:
Subject:    Re: [Biofuel] Electromagnetic Pulse Alert
In a message dated 7/1/05 1:26:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  
<< Subj: [Biofuel] Electromagnetic Pulse Alert
 Date:  7/1/05 1:26:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time
 From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (r)
 Sender:    [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-to:  mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org">
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 To:    Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  
 On C-SPAN, June 21 2005, I saw a fascinating account on how a terrorist
 nuclear attack can disable/destroy all our electronic devices:
 computers,PDAs, cellular phones, TVs, TIVOs, pagers, even many cars,
 trucks and RVs. All of these devices dead, made inoperable,useless, so
 many doorstops and paperweights created by a terrorist nuclear
 bomb/missile's ElectroMagnetic Pulse (EMP). EMP can disable electronics
 as far away as 3700 miles. Roscoe Bartlett's presentation on C-SPAN
 showed that such an attack can disable the american economy for a long
 time, set it back at least a hendred (100) years and create millions of
 casualties.
  
 Since the damage can be so great and so widespread, we are ALL in it
 together. The banks WILL be affected. The consumers WILL be affected.
 The buainesses' operations WILL be disrupted. If customers can't get
 money out of the banks, they WON'T be able to buy your product or
 service. Let me stress it again: we are ALL in this together. You WON'T
 be able to get on the Internet (assuming that all your electronics
 haven't been destroyed first) UNLESS your ISP can itself get on the
 Internet.
  
  
 Yet, there is hope in the form of defensive measures. Enter these words
 in the Google search box :"shielded rooms" or "EMP" or "NEMP" or
 "Faraday cages" or "anechoic chamber".
  
  
  
 I have NO business interests in the companies mentioned.
  
  
 The Polyphaser Corporation
  
 www.polyphaser.com <http://www.polyphaser.com/>
  
  
  
 Here are some Pointers:
  
  
-
  
  
 The Electromagnetic Bomb - a Weapon of Electrical Mass Destruction
  
 http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/kopp/apjemp.html
  
  
 Nuclear Weapons Effects
  
  
 Www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/intro/nuke-effects.htm
 <http://Www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/intro/nuke-effects.htm>
  
  
   Nuclear Weapon EMP Effects
  
 http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm
  
  
 Electromagnetic Pulse
  
 http://www.physics.northwestern.edu/classes/2001Fall/Phyx135-2/19/emp.htm
  
  >>
  
well, gee, if the terorist haven't thought of doing this yet, this all
ought
to give them a leg up.
greg
  
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
  
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
  
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
  
  
  
  
  
  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Symbiosis with nature, or at least less competition

[r]

With the global warming looming over us and animal species disappearing 
every day, I think humans should work towards a more symbiotic 
relationship with nature.  Humans cut down trees to make room for houses 
to live in.  Human activity creates CO2, which is (should be) absorbed 
in large part by trees.  Humans have been competing with animals, with 
animal species disappearing daily. Humans justify destroying animal 
species as nuisance and useless species.Humans can get out of the 
competiton with animals by putting themselves and most of their 
possessions out of reach from large animals (Wolves, bears and big 
predators, moose, deer and other plant-eating animals) by living above 
the ground, either in the trees themselves, in houses hanging from trees 
or in platforms high above the ground.  In our consumer society, humans 
have learned to consume, consume, take, take.  I think it's time for 
humans to learn to give (at least our organic wastes properly 
composted).  The trees and plants would happily receive it.



http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues97/aug97/treehouses.html
http://www.gcrio.org/gwcc/part1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_sink

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?

[r]

I think that trees are a (renewable) resource that should be harvested.  
Otherwise, trees, like other resources, will get depleted, no matter the 
quantity of trees.  The more there is of the resource, the more time it 
takes to deplete it and the more the hurt after it is gone.  I ordered 
this fascinating book "Les Methodes Jean Pain ou Un Autre Jardin" (The 
Jean Pain Methods or Another Garden) from www.jean-pain.com (in French) 
that does just that.  It can be ordered using Paypal, among other 
payment methods.  Tree harvesting. removing dead branches, shred them 
and compost them. Removing dead branches has the added benefit of 
reducing wild fire risk.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hard to say where the truth is in all of this debate regarding cutting 
trees.  In Canada forest is one of our largest natural 
.ahemresources. Currently more forest area is lost to natural 
causes than logging.  Trees are renewable and the lumber industry now 
replants more trees than it takes.  The ecological impact is not a 
clear cut issue (pardon the pun).  Granted a mature forest supports a 
different ecology than a second growth but for instance studies have 
shown that there is more food for bears in a clearcut zone than there 
is in a mature forest.  I can vouch for this and the proof is in the 
sheer number of bears I have seen in clearcut areas in the province of 
British Columbia vs old growth areas.  Clear cutting is still bad for 
what it does to soil retention on slopes but consider that a mature 
forest WILL burn eventually one hot dry summer during an electrical 
storm and all the lumber will have gone to waste and a lot of CO2 and 
particulate would have gone into the air.  I have also been told that 
trees contibute relatively little oxygen to our atmosphere compared to 
the majority which comes from algae in the sea.  Is this true?  I've 
not verified it. Surely in a place like Canada using lumber makes 
sense from the perspective of localization vs globalization. Steel 
mills and recycling foundaries are few and far apart and require 
energy and transportation over long distances.  The lumber industry 
uses heavy equipment for sure but there are thousands of saw mills 
that can process lumber right where it is cut and it can be used there 
as well. Lumber will not disappear any time soon as a building 
material.  If logging was banned here construction companies would 
look for imported lumber possibly imported from regions where lack of 
environmental standards and logging practices are much more damaging 
to the earth.  What is really needed is to put the brakes on the 
pervasive need for expansion that our capitalist system requires in 
order to sustain itself.  I don't know what can replace it but I have 
a feeling we are going to find out in the next decade or so.


Joe

Chris wrote:

Todd, of course you are correct that energy is used to recycle steel. 
However, no more land is strip mined, and no new land is disturbed to 
bury the old broken washing machine that got melted down.  Were the 
electricity generated in a sustainable way, it would be all good.



Chris K
Cayce, SC

- Original Message - From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?



> We do not live in the US.
> Would like to know what is this panasteel or recycled steel?

Something that requires a boatload of fossil fuels to smelt, sheet 
and press.


Nice thing about renewables. They're renewable.

And to a very large they do it in a carbon neutral way without much 
interference from humans.


Todd Swearingen.



Josephine Wee wrote:


To Nancy Canning:
 We do not live in the US.  Would like to know what is this 
panasteel or recycled steel?

 thanks.

- Original Message -
*From:* Nancy Canning 
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

*Sent:* Sunday, July 03, 2005 11:51 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your
home ?

what about recycled tires.  filled with dirt, then covered with
stucco.  Makes a mighty good building and is being used all over
the southwest.

- Original Message -
*From:* Chris 
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

*Sent:* Saturday, July 02, 2005 8:35 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build
your home ?

I just built a utility building using the recycled steel
structure by Panasteel, and I didn't have to join a
get-rich-quick scheme to do it. Chris K
Cayce, SC

- Original Message -
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

*Sent:* Satu

Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?

[r]

Thanks for the info and the links, Keith.  I have been looking for the 
right word to do web searches with.  Agroforestry.  Since web searches 
are word-based, it is important to use the right word to find the right 
info.


Richard

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello Rich


I think that trees are a (renewable) resource that should be harvested.



Yes, but how? Good ways and bad ways... there are some interesting 
discussions (and arguments) about this in the list archives.


Otherwise, trees, like other resources, will get depleted, no matter 
the quantity of trees.  The more there is of the resource, the more 
time it takes to deplete it and the more the hurt after it is gone. I 
ordered this fascinating book "Les Methodes Jean Pain ou Un Autre 
Jardin" (The Jean Pain Methods or Another Garden) from 
www.jean-pain.com (in French) that does just that.  It can be ordered 
using Paypal, among other payment methods.  Tree harvesting. removing 
dead branches, shred them and compost them. Removing dead branches 
has the added benefit of reducing wild fire risk.



http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#pain
Biofuels Library - Journey to Forever
Jean Pain: France's King of Green Gold

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#treecrops
Small Farms Library - Journey to Forever
Tree Crops: A Permanent Agriculture by J. Russell Smith

The Overstory, Agroforestry Net, Inc.
http://www.overstory.org


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hard to say where the truth is in all of this debate regarding 
cutting trees.  In Canada forest is one of our largest natural 
.ahemresources. Currently more forest area is lost to 
natural causes than logging.  Trees are renewable and the lumber 
industry now replants more trees than it takes.  The ecological 
impact is not a clear cut issue (pardon the pun).  Granted a mature 
forest supports a different ecology than a second growth but for 
instance studies have shown that there is more food for bears in a 
clearcut zone than there is in a mature forest.  I can vouch for 
this and the proof is in the sheer number of bears I have seen in 
clearcut areas in the province of British Columbia vs old growth 
areas.  Clear cutting is still bad for what it does to soil 
retention on slopes but consider that a mature forest WILL burn 
eventually one hot dry summer during an electrical storm and all the 
lumber will have gone to waste and a lot of CO2 and particulate 
would have gone into the air.  I have also been told that trees 
contibute relatively little oxygen to our atmosphere compared to the 
majority which comes from algae in the sea.  Is this true? I've not 
verified it. Surely in a place like Canada using lumber makes sense 
from the perspective of localization vs globalization. Steel mills 
and recycling foundaries are few and far apart and require energy 
and transportation over long distances.  The lumber industry uses 
heavy equipment for sure but there are thousands of saw mills that 
can process lumber right where it is cut and it can be used there as 
well. Lumber will not disappear any time soon as a building 
material.  If logging was banned here construction companies would 
look for imported lumber possibly imported from regions where lack 
of environmental standards and logging practices are much more 
damaging to the earth.  What is really needed is to put the brakes 
on the pervasive need for expansion that our capitalist system 
requires in order to sustain itself.  I don't know what can replace 
it but I have a feeling we are going to find out in the next decade 
or so.




We'll replace it.

"There may still be two superpowers on the planet: the United States 
and world public opinion." - The New York Times



http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030414&s=schell
The Other Superpower | Jonathan Schell

Best wishes

Keith




Joe

Chris wrote:

Todd, of course you are correct that energy is used to recycle 
steel. However, no more land is strip mined, and no new land is 
disturbed to bury the old broken washing machine that got melted 
down.  Were the electricity generated in a sustainable way, it 
would be all good.



Chris K
Cayce, SC

- Original Message - From: "Appal Energy" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?



> We do not live in the US.
> Would like to know what is this panasteel or recycled steel?

Something that requires a boatload of fossil fuels to smelt, sheet 
and press.


Nice thing about renewables. They're renewable.

And to a very large they do it in a carbon neutral way without 
much interference from humans.


Todd Swearingen.



Josephine Wee wrote:


To Nancy Canning:
We do not live in the US.  Would like to know what is this 
panasteel or recycled steel?

thanks.

  - Original Message -
  *From:* Nancy Canning 
  *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  
  *

Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?

[r]

Nitrogen-fixing trees.  Nitrogen, is that part of soil nutrients?

http://agroforestry.net/overstory/overstory4.html



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  >Trees are renewable and the lumber industry now 
  
replants more trees than it takes.<
   
  The only problem with repanting
trees, period, that i'm shocked no one has mentioned (unless i missed
it), is that the earth in a particular area can only support 4-5
generations of trees before the soil is completely exhausted. Trees
take more nutrients out of the soil to grow than just about anything
else, and after several generations they will NOT grow any longer. So
yeah, replanting after clear cutting is nice and all, but after a few
times at the the soil stops growing... anyhting... 
   
  And as far as deforestation goes,
i'm more worried about places outside developed countries where no one
really cares if trees are replanted. A lot of the slash and burn taking
place in the rainforest is regular old people who are trying to grow
food or make money, clearing land for cattle and farms. Those people
don't replant trees, and they aren't part of a multibnation company
with lots of enviromental regulations to uphold. 
   
  _Chris N 
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Joe Street 
To:
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent:
Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:55 AM
Subject:
Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?


Hi Hakan;

100% in agreement with all of that.  Clearcutting IS bad, I thought I 
made that distinction.  It is also true that clearcutting does not hurt

bears or elk.  Selective cutting and even the use of helicopters to 
remove the odd massive tree are being used which is normally cost 
prohibitive.  But then again I guess my attitude is that basing 
everything on dollar cost is not the right attitude for how to live in 
this world.  I bet lumber is more expensive in areas where selective 
logging is being carried out as the norm.  But that is a good thing and

makes people less wasteful when it impacts thier pocket book.
WRT your comments r.e. the treatment of animals yes and factory farming

techniques are easy to ignore when your meat is only seen as a nicely 
packaged 'commodity' on the store shelf rather than the reality of 
inhumane treatment animals experience in thier short lives at our 
hands.  We just don't look carefully enough at what we are doing and we

are encouraged not to. 

Joe

Hakan Falk wrote:

>
> Joe,
>
> Only a couple of complementary things,
>
> The Elk an Moose also like clear cut, but they are very bad for
> forest management. They eat the top of the newly planted trees.
>
> Clear cuts are also bad, since it often result in that the top soil
> is washed down the streams and over fertilize them. this in its
> turn results in greater vulnerability to the acid rains from
industrial
> areas, that kills our lakes. The only reason for clear cut, is the
> adoption to modern machinery.
>
> Proper forest management was developed in Southern Germany
> around 200 years ago and was implemented in Sweden 150 years
> ago. It has proven its viability, but clear cut was not a part of
the
> those methods.
>
> Why we get a large amount of bushes etc. in clear cuts, is not
> because of more sunlight, it is because a lack of pines to control
> the vegetation. The pine tree is releasing chemicals from the
needles
> it drops, that limit the under vegetation and give the pines the
> space  and nutrition to grow. It is their way of fighting the
competition
> and only allow species that are good for them.
>
> Fires have always been a natural part of the forest cycle, to keep
> the ground relatively clean and add nutrients. This is also done in
> good forest management, which starts to be a thing of the past and
> had to give way for the use of large machines.
>
> All of this and much more, are to be found in the biofuel archives
> from earlier extensive discussions. No need to repeat it in full.
>
> Harvesting properly managed forests for building material, has been
> proven viable for more than 150 years. We are also "killing" plants
> for food like bread etc. and the way the subject provoke is
misleading
> and ignorant. We even "kill" animals to eat, but the real abuse is
not
> that we kill them, it is often worse with the way we let them live.
>
> Hakan
>
>
>
> At 04:15 PM 7/6/2005, you wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris;
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
 <>Granted a mature forest supports a
 <>different ecology than a second growth but for
instance studies have
 <>shown that there is more food for bears in a
clearcut zone than 
 there is

 in a mature forest.<

>>>
>>>
>>> i don't see the relevance of this.  you could make the
same argument 
>>> for
>>> garbage dumps.  does that mean we should be sending all
these huge 
>>> barges full of
>>> waste to the canadian wilderness?  who conducted these
studies? and 
>>> who funded
>>> them?
>>>
>>>
>> Well he

Re: Wes - RE: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?

[r]

You're welcome.

Richard

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi Ryan


Keith wrote:

And there are people who demand to know: "What's all this off-topic 
political crap got to do with BIOFUELS???", which usually turns out 
to be another way of saying they disagree with it and want it censored.



Keith, I for one will put in my 2 cents and say quite honestly that I 
wouldn't be glued to my computer reading email updates of this list 
if it weren't for the political discussion.  I live in the South 
Dakota, USA.  Most people here are Red state type of people who don't 
want change as long as there is a conservative in office pretending 
he/she cares.  I love that we can all speak freely, and I especially 
love that I can read what people from around the world think, 
especially about America...I agree with most of them.  I am also 
thankful that you post so many articles, I would not be exposed to 
this information otherwise.  This list has changed my world view for 
the better.  Thank you for your hard work, and thank you to all the 
contributers.



Thanks so much for taking the time to say so, it's much appreciated, 
and you're most welcome.


Best wishes

Keith



Ryan




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Bring land back from the dead

[r]

Traditional agriculture is slowly killing the available land, which 
means more work for the rest of us who want to own land some day.  What 
would be the necessary steps to restore, say, a former landfill site or 
a former gas station?


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Bring land back from the dead

[r]

We are cutting ourselves from fuel source options, by wasting land that
can be used to grow plants for biofuel,  just when the demand gets
strong enough to create new markets for biofuel products.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  In the mid-Atlantic area where I live, it's sad to see prime
agricultural land being turned into tracts for subdivisions, malls, and
McMansions, the latter of which often have acres of lawn that must be
cut, fertilized, etc., for no good purpose.   
   
  Unfortunately the market doesn't capture the long-term value of
that land, which may be needed in the future for biofuel production,
agricultural production close to urban areas (as food transportation
costs increase), etc.   We as individuals seem to vote with our dollars
for development (and even second homes) rather than investing in the
future by purchasing easements for that land.   And we as a body
politic can't seem to work together through our elected representatives
to make long term, rather than short term and short sighted decisions. 
  
   
  I don't know the answer.
  
  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel

[r]

Anybody heard of the Direct Democracy League? What do you think of it?

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  Unfortunately voting Libertarian had nothing to do with getting 
rid of these extreemists...

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 
=
Paddy,

Actually, according to the President's FY2006 budget to Congress, his 
administration proposed an $18 billion cut from the Dept of Defense budget 
(compared to FY2005).  I haven't finished looking to see if this was just 
hidden elsewhere (there were increases in "National Defense" in the Dept of 
Energy and other agencies), plus it doesn't include the "unexpected costs" 
of invading other countries like Afghanistan or Iraq.  It is true that the 
defense budget amounts 19% of the overall $2.568 TRILLION FY2006 federal 
budget, but what we really should be asking is what else are they wasting 
our money on?

Also, where is the $210 million from and what is it for?  From the FY2006 
budget, I see a lot more being put into areas of cleaning up the 
environment - In the EPA's budget alone there is about $1.5 billion for 
states to clean up water supplies, $121 million to clean up industrial 
brownfield sites, $10 million to retrofit school buses to reduce their 
emissions, $73 million to repair or remove leaking underground storage tanks 
and, finally $1.2 billion to clean up Superfund sites.  That's something 
like just under $3 billion on cleaning up our environmental messes.

I agree that this Administration has been rather relaxed on helping to 
prevent environment problems, but then can you blame them?  Many of the 
members of this administration are from either the oil or defense 
industries, two areas that are the worse contributors to enviromnental 
destruction there ever was.  To them, saving the environment means losing 
money.  And it is our fault for putting them in office (well not my fault, I 
voted Libertarian).  Next time let's keep the money-grubbing, 
wilderness-drilling, nation-conquering, "we don't count civilian casualties" 
politicians out of office in the next election, and maybe we will have a 
chance to save the environment (and our own pocketbooks).

I encourage you to look at the budget and determine for yourself what they 
are wasting our money on.  Go to 
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy06/browse.html to look at the budget.

Thanks,

Earl Kinsley

- Original Message - 
From: "Paddy O'Reilly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel


  
  

  
I do
agree, though, that that was a heck of an expensive program for the U.S.
taxpayer.



  
  
  

I'm sorry, but I have to comment on what's being said here.
Basically, the American tax dollar is begrudgingly given to help with
cleaning up our environment to the tune of 210 million (ever deflating)
US dollars yet a blind eye is being cast on the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of
those same dollars being wasted on the beloved American Defence Budget.
I heard somewhere that the INCREASE in the American defence budget this
year exceeds the total defence budgets of the next five largest defence
budgets of other "superpowers" put together.

And George won't even consider cancelling third nation debt (I suppose
it doesn't hold any immediate return for him so he doesn't care).

So putting the whole thing into perspective, the payment of 0.175% of
the American defence budget (which will be spent on developing new and
improved ways of wiping out the planet in the shortest time possible) on
helping some other Americans develop ways of reducing our dependence on
the Earth's natural resources is a waste of money while creating weapons
of mass destruction isn't.

Hmmm, methinks there's a slight imbalance in priorities here. The term
"Heck of an expensive program(me)" should be reserved for George Dubya's
retirement fund (aka defence budget).



  As expensive as today's oil consumption is proving to be, in so many
different ways? And not just for the US taxpayer either.



  
  
IIRC, under PNGV the US gave $70 million to each of the big 3
automakers to come up with these 'possible vehicles'.



  

I've cut out as much as is reasonable from this email trail to preserve
bandwidth. Hope it still makes sense.
By the way, I'm using English spelling in this mail not the American
mutated version.


The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is 
confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended 
recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, 
disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If 
you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return 
e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s).
Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED].
Thank You.


  
  

--

Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again

[r]

If we assume that the human body knows what it needs, then if human milk 
is the most appropriate to feed humans, how come we are drinking cow 
milk instead of human milk?   How about industrialized human milk 
production?  That should help to cure/prevent a fair amount of diseases 
prevalent in our societies?


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com wrote:

Why do you object to milk production? Or is it, again, that you're 
objecting to industrialised milk production?




I wouldn't say that I object to milk production at all, I am 
questioning the sustainability of the practice and also the 
nutritional value to humans.  And yes, I do most definitely object to 
industrialized milk production.  Really,  I'm just trying to 
understand.  Hopefully, it might help someone else also.



I should add that as mammals ourselves there is nothing that bovine 
milk provides to us that we cannot get directly from other foods or 
manufacture ourselves.


Take care,
Ken

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again

[r]

Some time ago, I contacted the Human Milk Banking Association of North 
America (www.hmbana.org) without getting a response about getting milk 
for consumption. The web site mentions that human milk is to be used for 
therapeutic and nutritional purposes for babies ( no mention of adults) 
although adults, especially elderly ones, need calcium in a highly 
digestible form (like in human milk) to prevent/cure 
osteopenia/osteoporosis.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

My mother and grandfather swear by this stuff.  I have no affiliation 
with this site, it was on google.  I haven't taken any of this 
colostrum, but my grandfather and his girlfriend say it saved their 
lives.  I am not sure of the valitidy of this, as we see in America, 
advertising can create a wonderdrug...barefoot coral calcium for 
example.  all over the tv, it was the hottest fad in living forever, 
now it is top shelf in the back.


This just came to mind when you mentioned the diseases.

Ryan
- Original Message - From: "r" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again


If we assume that the human body knows what it needs, then if human 
milk is the most appropriate to feed humans, how come we are drinking 
cow milk instead of human milk?   How about industrialized human milk 
production? That should help to cure/prevent a fair amount of 
diseases prevalent in our societies?


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com wrote:

Why do you object to milk production? Or is it, again, that you're 
objecting to industrialised milk production?





I wouldn't say that I object to milk production at all, I am 
questioning the sustainability of the practice and also the 
nutritional value to humans.  And yes, I do most definitely object 
to industrialized milk production.  Really,  I'm just trying to 
understand.  Hopefully, it might help someone else also.




I should add that as mammals ourselves there is nothing that bovine 
milk provides to us that we cannot get directly from other foods or 
manufacture ourselves.


Take care,
Ken

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org 



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org 



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/






___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel production and motorcycles

[r]

Try "diesel motorcycle" on Google.  I got a few hits when I tried it.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  Bob,
   
  I don't disagree that there is an abundance of waste vegetable
oil out there. My curiosity in making it from scratch, comes from the
same ideology that drives me to join this forum. Although I'm sure that
I'll eventually be tapping into this source, I'm not convinced of it's
sustainability for the individual. I try to look ahead toward a time
when bio-based oils will have gained popularity and "waste" vegetable
oil will be bought and sold between wholesalers and commercial
processors.
   
  I know this won't happen tomorrow but, like I said, If we are
concerned about sustainability on a world-wide scale, maybe we should
also be concerned about it on a macro or micro scale in terms of energy
Independence.
   
  Your point is duly noted. There may be no need to be concerned
for a really long time. Besides, from one point of view, processing
waste vegetable oil serves an important roll in conservation. So, as
you've probably noticed, I'm still trying to figure out my priorities.
   
  One thing is for sure: I'd really like to get a couple of diesel
motorcycles for me and my fiance.
   
  Mike
  
  bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Howdy
Mike, why not used vegetable oil? Even small burger joints 
generate 10 or so gal a week. Around my parts the small operators have 
to pay to have the stuff hauled off, so they are more than willing to 
give it to me for free.

Michael Redler wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I know we've already discussed the variety of oil producing seeds
and 
> related processes for extraction. My conclusion has been that I
don't 
> have enough land or time to process my own diesel fuel for the 
> quantities that I need. However after researching the performance
and 
> availability of diesel motorcycles 
> (http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html and 
> http://www.royal-enfield.de/main.htm) and revisiting some pages
for 
> small scale production, I'm having second thoughts. According to
some 
> estimates, yields can be as high as 100 gallons per acre.
> 
> Can anyone who has processed their own biodiesel (from the ground
up), 
> please help me get a feel for what I can expect if I decide to
produce 
> on a small scale (avg. 1-2 gal/week per year for seasonal riding).
> 
> It might still be too much, even with the best yielding crops and
plenty 
> of land, sunshine and care. The bottom line is that I'm not sure.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
>

> 
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 


-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  
  
  
  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel production and motorcycles

[r]

check out
http://www.metaefficient.com/metaefficient/archives/news/efficient-diesel-motorcycle-created.html. 
A diesel-engined motorcycle that is said to do 150 MPG and potentially
run biodiesel.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
Try "diesel motorcycle" on Google.  I got a few hits when I tried it.
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  


Bob,
 
I don't disagree that there is an abundance of waste vegetable
oil out there. My curiosity in making it from scratch, comes from the
same ideology that drives me to join this forum. Although I'm sure that
I'll eventually be tapping into this source, I'm not convinced of it's
sustainability for the individual. I try to look ahead toward a time
when bio-based oils will have gained popularity and "waste" vegetable
oil will be bought and sold between wholesalers and commercial
processors.
 
I know this won't happen tomorrow but, like I said, If we are
concerned about sustainability on a world-wide scale, maybe we should
also be concerned about it on a macro or micro scale in terms of energy
Independence.
 
Your point is duly noted. There may be no need to be concerned
for a really long time. Besides, from one point of view, processing
waste vegetable oil serves an important roll in conservation. So, as
you've probably noticed, I'm still trying to figure out my priorities.
 
One thing is for sure: I'd really like to get a couple of
diesel
motorcycles for me and my fiance.
 
Mike

bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Howdy
Mike, why not used vegetable oil? Even small burger joints 
generate 10 or so gal a week. Around my parts the small operators have 
to pay to have the stuff hauled off, so they are more than willing to 
give it to me for free.
  
Michael Redler wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I know we've already discussed the variety of oil producing seeds
and 
> related processes for extraction. My conclusion has been that I
don't 
> have enough land or time to process my own diesel fuel for the 
> quantities that I need. However after researching the performance
and 
> availability of diesel motorcycles 
> (http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html
and 
> http://www.royal-enfield.de/main.htm)
and revisiting some pages
for 
> small scale production, I'm having second thoughts. According to
some 
> estimates, yields can be as high as 100 gallons per acre.
> 
> Can anyone who has processed their own biodiesel (from the ground
up), 
> please help me get a feel for what I can expect if I decide to
produce 
> on a small scale (avg. 1-2 gal/week per year for seasonal riding).
> 
> It might still be too much, even with the best yielding crops and
plenty 
> of land, sunshine and care. The bottom line is that I'm not sure.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
>

> 
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>
  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 
  
  
-- 
Bob Allen
  http://ozarker.org/bob
  
"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman
  
___
Biofuel mailing list
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
  
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
  
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
  




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  
  
  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 message

Re: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel production and motorcycles

[r]

Metaefficient's web page is in Dutch.  Altavista's Babel Fish
translation web page translates web pages between different languages,
for free.  Enter the url of the web page (www.startwin.com) which you
want to translate from (in this case, Dutch)  into the "Translate a web
page" field, select the desired language to translate to (in this case,
English), and click the "translate" button.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
check out
  http://www.metaefficient.com/metaefficient/archives/news/efficient-diesel-motorcycle-created.html. 
A diesel-engined motorcycle that is said to do 150 MPG and potentially
run biodiesel.
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  


Try "diesel motorcycle" on Google.  I got a few hits when I tried it.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  
  
  Bob,
   
  I don't disagree that there is an abundance of waste
vegetable
oil out there. My curiosity in making it from scratch, comes from the
same ideology that drives me to join this forum. Although I'm sure that
I'll eventually be tapping into this source, I'm not convinced of it's
sustainability for the individual. I try to look ahead toward a time
when bio-based oils will have gained popularity and "waste" vegetable
oil will be bought and sold between wholesalers and commercial
processors.
   
  I know this won't happen tomorrow but, like I said, If we
are
concerned about sustainability on a world-wide scale, maybe we should
also be concerned about it on a macro or micro scale in terms of energy
Independence.
   
  Your point is duly noted. There may be no need to be
concerned
for a really long time. Besides, from one point of view, processing
waste vegetable oil serves an important roll in conservation. So, as
you've probably noticed, I'm still trying to figure out my priorities.
   
  One thing is for sure: I'd really like to get a couple of
diesel
motorcycles for me and my fiance.
   
  Mike
  
  bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
  Howdy
Mike, why not used vegetable oil? Even small burger joints 
generate 10 or so gal a week. Around my parts the small operators have 
to pay to have the stuff hauled off, so they are more than willing to 
give it to me for free.

Michael Redler wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I know we've already discussed the variety of oil producing seeds
and 
> related processes for extraction. My conclusion has been that I
don't 
> have enough land or time to process my own diesel fuel for the 
> quantities that I need. However after researching the performance
and 
> availability of diesel motorcycles 
> (http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html
and 
> http://www.royal-enfield.de/main.htm)
and revisiting some pages
for 
> small scale production, I'm having second thoughts. According to
some 
> estimates, yields can be as high as 100 gallons per acre.
> 
> Can anyone who has processed their own biodiesel (from the ground
up), 
> please help me get a feel for what I can expect if I decide to
produce 
> on a small scale (avg. 1-2 gal/week per year for seasonal riding).
> 
> It might still be too much, even with the best yielding crops and
plenty 
> of land, sunshine and care. The bottom line is that I'm not sure.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
>

> 
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 


-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  
  
  
  
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
htt

Re: [Biofuel] Burning glycerol for heat / Acrolein

[r]

How about combining the glycerin with nitrogen to create
nitroglycerin?  I know, nitrogen is explosive but so is hydrogen.  The
engines in our vehicles are using what is called "explosion
propulsion".  Exploding fuel  pushes against pistons which are linked
to a shaft, which is linked to the transmission.  There must be a safe
way to use nitroglycerin.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  The chemical kinetics of fire is not understood very well. 
Smoking a cigarette will produce thousands of intermediate radicals,
which will lead to thousands of end products, many of which are
harmful.  Altering temperature and other variables will lead to
different end products.  So unless you have empirical evidence on a
specific substance, it's hard to know what is going to happen.  I know
people do burn it as a fuel, but I wouldn't recommend doing it in your
kitchen, for instance.
  
  
  R Del Bueno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hello
all,

I am considering the use of my glycerol coproduct as a burner fuel for 
process heat generation (indirect via boiler).
My glycerol generated while running 20% methanol is of very low
viscosity 
(mostly likely due to the excess methanol), and seems quite usable.
This 
may be more advantageous than recover when heating large batches.

I have been searching for emissions information on this, as I have
heard 
that toxic acrolein is produced.when glycerin is burnt at temps below 
1800degF. (I have heard this about WVO/SVO usage as well).
My question is how much?...as acrolein is also produced burning
gasoline, 
diesel, and cigarettes.
It seems that if the amount of acrolein produced by burning the gylerol

waste is LESS than the amount that would be produced by burning the
amount 
of petro diesel that is offset by the biodiesel..then net amount of 
acrolein is still a reduction, and hence acceptable.

Any data out there?
Any chemists out there who may be able to calculate an approximation?
Molecular formula C3H4O (..that's little 3, little 4)


-Rob


..
Info on Acrolein:
Acrolein is principally used as a chemical intermediate in the
production 
of acrylic acid and its
esters. Acrolein is used directly as an aquatic herbicide and algicide
in 
irrigation canals, as a
microbiocide in oil wells, liquid hydrocarbon fuels, cooling-water
towers 
and water treatment
ponds, and as a slimicide in the manufacture of paper (IARC, 1985). 
Combustion of fossil fuels,
tobacco smoke, and pyrolyzed animal and vegetable fats contribute to
the 
environmental
prevalence of acrolein (IARC, 1985). Acrolein is a byproduct of fires
and 
is one of several acute
toxicants which firefighters must endure. It is also formed from 
atmospheric reactions of 1,3-
butadiene. The annual statewide industrial emissions from facilities 
reporting under the Air
Toxics Hot Spots Act in California based on the most recent inventory
were 
estimated to be
54,565 pounds of acrolein (CARB, 2000).

CHRONIC TOXICITY SUMMARY
ACROLEIN (2-propenal, acraldehyde, allyl aldehyde, acryl aldehyde)
CAS Registry Number: 107-02-8

I. Chronic Toxicity Summary
Inhalation reference exposure level 0.06 mg/m3 (0.03 ppb)
Critical effect(s) Histological changes in nasal epithelium in rats
Hazard index target(s) Respiratory system; eyes

II. Physical and Chemical Properties (HSDB, 1995)
Description Colorless or yellow liquid with piercing,
disagreeable odor

Molecular formula C3H4O (oops..thats litte 3, little 4)
Molecular weight 56.1 g/mol
Density 0.843 g/cm3 @ 20°C
Boiling point 53°C
Melting point -88°C
Vapor pressure 220 torr @ 20°C
Odor threshold 160 ppb (370 mg/m3)
(Amoore and Hautala, 1983)
Solubility Soluble in ethanol, diethyl ether, and up to 20% w/v in water
Conversion factor 1 ppm = 2.3 mg/m3 @ 25° C 


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  
  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the co

Re: [Biofuel] Burning glycerol for heat / Acrolein

[r]

How about using nitrox, as in used in recreational diving?  I suppose 
that there is a need for energy to combine the nitrogen with the 
glycerin, to make the chemical reaction happen. Maybe carry 2 tanks (one 
of glycerin and one of nitrox)?  There might be a pre-combustion chamber 
where a spark would be set to the glycerin/nitrox mixture, to create the 
nitroglycerin, then the nitroglycerin would be sent to the engine to be 
burned.  Would the design be feasible and realistic?


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


LOL

all jokes aside, though, that's actually an interesting idea.  if it 
were
possible to keep the N and glycerine separate, and inject them into 
the cylinder

where they would combine, then explode. . . .

of course, there's the question of how energy efficient this would be 
(i'm
assuming it would be pretty efficient since nitroglycerine is so 
extremely
explosive).  and what emissions would be like.  and whether creating 
nitroglycerine

is as easy and simple as that in the first place.



It's easy to create but it's almost impossible to control. I really, 
really hope this discussion is going to remain entirely hypothetical!!!



There must be a safe way to use nitroglycerin.



Only in the form of dynamite it seems. Safe as dynamite, LOL!

High-explosives

The most earth-shattering use of glycerine remains that discovered by 
Italian chemist Ascanio Sobrero 150 years ago when he subjected it to 
nitration to make the world's first real high-explosive, 
nitroglycerin, one of the most dangerous substances ever concocted.


Sobrero's face was badly scarred in an explosion during an early 
experiment. He said nitroglycerin was so dangerous it was useless, and 
it had killed so many people he was ashamed to be its discoverer.


But Swedish chemist Alfred Nobel set about mass-producing the stuff, 
in spite of several explosions -- one of which killed his brother. 
Nobel discovered that nitroglycerin could be mixed with silica 
(diatomaceous earth) to form a stable high-explosive which he called 
dynamite. It made him one of the richest men of the age.


Nitroglycerin is extremely powerful. A mere 10 ml will expand 10,000 
times into 100 litres of gas at an explosive velocity of 7,700 metres 
per second (17,224 miles per hour) -- more powerful than TNT.


It's easy to find recipes for nitroglycerin. You mix deadly compounds 
like sulphuric acid and nitric acid with the glycerine and unless you 
can control the following runaway reaction it explodes in your face. 
Most formulas carry warnings like these:


"Caution: Nitroglycerin is extremely sensitive to decomposition, 
heating, dropping, or jarring, and may explode even if left 
undisturbed and cool."


"Caution: Nitroglycerin has the capacity to sense when a stupid or 
clumsy person is around and, if given a chance, it will try to kill him."


"Caution: This formula assumes that the maker has no qualms about 
killing his/her self in the process."


These cautions are VERY well-founded!

Every now and then newspapers rediscover these "resources" on the 
World Wide Web and set up a hue-and-cry for Internet censorship, 
claiming it promotes terrorism, but any terrorist worth his Semtex 
knows better than these amateurish offerings.


Anyway these things have been around much longer than the Internet. We 
found a nitroglycerin recipe in a general how-to book published more 
than a century ago, along with a dozen other explosives, including 
dynamite. Did Civilization-As-We-Know-It survive? It's hard to tell!


-- From: Glycerine
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html

Best wishes for a long, safe, happy and intact future.

Keith




-chris

In a message dated 7/17/05 2:46:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< How about combining the glycerin with nitrogen to create 
nitroglycerin?


I know, nitrogen is explosive but so is hydrogen.  The engines in our

vehicles are using what is called "explosion propulsion".  Exploding

fuel  pushes against pistons which are linked to a shaft, which is

linked to the transmission.  There must be a safe way to use 
nitroglycerin.




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Burning glycerol for heat / Acrolein

[r]

Who knows, I might be right next to you.  ;-)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




r wrote:


How about using nitrox,



nope, it won't work.  Nitrox is just a mixture of oxygen and nitrogen 
with more oxygen than a normal atmosphere.  to make nitroglycerin 
(actually easy) one need only combine fuming nitric, fuming sulfuric, 
and glycerin in the correct proportions, while keeping the whole lot 
cool.  Just let me know when you are going to do it so I can several 
miles away.


In reality it is a very, very dangerous process.  As I recall it was 
Alfred Nobels brother who was killed by a nitroglycerin explosion 
which inspired him to invent dynamite (nitroglycerin + sawdust or a 
similar dispersant)



You could use nitromethane (liquid) or nitrous oxide (gas) but that 
doesn't get to the point of using the glycerin.  I am going to try 
taking the glycerin and esterifying it with short chain fatty acids 
such that I come up with a molecule with about the same mol wt as the 
FAMEs.
For example one could make tributyl glycerate and it should have the 
same viscoity and vapor pressure as FAME.  The only problem is that 
the energy content is lower still than FAME which is slightly lower 
than fossil diesel.




 as in used in recreational diving?  I suppose

that there is a need for energy to combine the nitrogen with the 
glycerin, to make the chemical reaction happen. Maybe carry 2 tanks 
(one of glycerin and one of nitrox)?  There might be a pre-combustion 
chamber where a spark would be set to the glycerin/nitrox mixture, to 
create the nitroglycerin, then the nitroglycerin would be sent to the 
engine to be burned.  Would the design be feasible and realistic?






___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Re: I don't think many people really get it

[r]

Is there an international tribunal powerful enough that would put the 
Bush administration on trial for war crimes?


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Can't wait to see how it comes out. -K



In perhaps six years or so a trial for treason relative to the 
fabrication of cause for war in Iraq. Who's heads will be on the 
chopping block will be anyone's guess. And no doubt there will be 
presidential pardons for all the very moment another Republican 
(actually "party line") president is in office.


Trial. Perhaps conviction. Endless appeal processes and then pardon. 
Again, it's the methodology inside the small minds of what passes for 
leaders in this nation (the Untied States).


One can only hope the pendulum swings just far enough to at least 
permit the world the scent of justice, even if but for a brief hour in 
the none too distant future.


Todd Swearingen



Ken Provost wrote:


on 7/19/05 6:10 PM, Appal Energy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 


I don't think most people understand what Mr. Bush's most recent back
pedaling means.  The more things change, the more they remain the
same. Rove is likely to go nowhere for the next two years, even if
prosecuted. the hallmark of a den of thieves is that everyone
hangs together until serious threat of anyone hanging. Then they're
selectively fed to whatever wolves are at the tent flap.

Welcome to America, Bush style.

  




Well said, as usual   -)

Cheney first I trust. Heck, everybody hates him already.  But it takes
more than outing a spy. Everything will slide off them til it's a
pure-and-simple  MURDER, like Diana. Some aide of Cheney's actually
hires a HIT on somebody. Even better -- somebody makes it look like
Cheney has a HEART ATTACK (succinylcholine does that), and then gets
caught!  
Can't wait to see how it comes out. -K



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org 



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



 



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Propane - A"Bio" fuel?

[r]

Is propane a "Bio" fuel, can it be created from "bio" sources?

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Harnessing hurricane/tornado power

[r]

Would it be possible to harness power from hurricanes or tornadoes?

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Payback Period (was, hurricane/tornado power)

[r]

I have found an wind turbine that I can use during a hurricane: the CET
Air X Wind Turbine from Cetsolar.com.  I'm certainly not going to
harvest all of the hurricane's power (even if was possible) but it will
be something that I can leave out in the wind and not worry about it in
the event of a hurricane. ;-)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  no argument here.  but that wasn't the point.

yet at the same time, it was.  i mean, if we were to let such considerations 
determine our actions--let alone what we are willing to think or imagine--we 
wouldn't all be on this list, would we?  ;›)

cheers,

-chris b.


on 7/21/05 6:21 PM, Kirk McLoren at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  

  The machine to harvest the energy is a capital investment and when you
consider the utilization factor the cost of the harvested energy is not
competitive.
  



"Payback period is the most widely used measure for evaluating potential
investments. Its use increases in tough economic times, when CIOs are apt
to say things like, 'We won't even consider a project that has more than a
24-month payback.' "

Above from Computerworld. Any technology that has a payback period of, say,
10 years or more (fusion, hot or cold, tidal, deep ocean thermal) will
never get off the ground. Easter Island: "take half their pay to plant
more palms that won't make canoes for 10 years?? Off with your Head!!"

Until the evaluation system changes, innovation suffers.  -K

  
  
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Rife with Conspiracies

[r]

Yes, I think that is what is going to happen if the situation is
allowed to worsen.  Substituting one evil for another.  Jumping from
the frying pan into the fire.  Businesses trying to keep us into
dependency, subservience.

Richard



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  I've been hearing so many conspiracy theories that the "magic
bullet" might soon be responded to with a blank stare. The scary part
is that most of them sound legitimate.
  With the doubling of the price of nuclear fuel since 2003 and the
white house misrepresenting nuclear (or should I say "nucular") power
and the so called "hydrogen economy", I'm wondering if we can draw some
conclusions as to where our government is trying to direct the masses
and the markets.
  Anyone who has been paying attention to the studies done on peak
production, knows that petroleum oil is running out. Oil producers know
that if they try to include themselves in every market (i.e. home
heating, power generation, etc.) the demand would overwhelm supply and
trigger an aggressive effort to switch to alternatives -- a discussion
they won't have any control over.
  It seems to me that there is a preemptive attack on appropriate
alternatives so that any shortage in oil can be substituted with
nuclear energy. IMO, this seems to be the perfect plan for a ruling
class who wants to maintain control of the fuel supply. Both petroleum
oil and uranium are difficult to obtain for most people. It also
requires technologies that are specialized and unavailable to most of
us.
  IMO, the situation you end up with is a way of stabilizing the
premium price of oil with nuclear power and the incorporation of
hydrogen as a way of diversifying nuclear power and giving it the
mobility it needs to enter into other markets when petroleum becomes
scarce.
  I'm not committed to this theory. However, our discussions in this
group (IMO) has implicitly suggested that this is what's happening.
  I'm sure that I'm not the first person to consider this. So, if
anyone has information that directly addresses this theory
(i.e. earlier post, URL, etc.), I would be really interested.
  Mike   
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Windwandler

[r]

What is the pricing for the Windside turbines, in US dollars?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  sure is pretty, but the pricing info didn't load for me.
   
  -chris 
 
-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:34:51 +0900
Subject: [Biofuel] Windwandler
  
  
  http://www.windwandler.de/eng/techn_specs.html 
der windwandler gmbH - technical specifications 
 
A bit too simple? A bit too expensive? 
 
___ 
Biofuel mailing list 
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org 
 
Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html 
 
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages): 
  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 
 
  

  
  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Gangs of America Power and the disabling of democracy

[r]

I think you have the idea. One way to change this situation, short of an 
old-fashioned bloody revolution is to get around their institutions, 
making them irrelevant, obsolete and in this perspective, the Great 
Equalizer Internet can help us reach that goal.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] asked:

Anyone out there have it all figured out yet? How do we eliminate 
the all powerful, destructive, and "untouchable" attributes of 
corporations, while not destroying the lives of the good people 
who make up their work forces? (In 100 words or less please)


We can’t beat them but we can go around them. Our foundation 
is starting networks so farms and small enterprises can link to 
share food, fuel, fiber, goods, services and “how to” knowledge 
locally and globally. Each helps meet the needs of its own area 
and contributes to others when possible. Model rural 
“ecovillages” integrate agriculture, education and entrepreneurial 
ventures as interns and workshop attendees come and learn to 
create and maintain farms or enterprises. Some include 
academic schools where students get credit for related 
hands-on projects. Anyone know of similar projects? We want to 
link with all who are interested.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

 



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Re: The New Blue States/Country

[r]

Through shareholder prodding via proxies on the inside of the 
corporation  and consumer exerting their purchasing power on the outside 
of it, we can steer in the right direction those "dumb giants" that 
corporations are.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



John,

If you by anti US mean that I do not like the foreign policies by US 
government and behavior of many US corporations, then I am as anti US 
as I am anti OC (Other Country) with similar policies and behavior. 
This is something I share with many Americans. If you mean that I am 
anti US citizens and Americans in general, you are dead wrong. I think 
it is despicable and childish to voice this anti American argument, as 
soon that somebody rises any criticism of the policies and behavior of 
US Government or US corporations. It is not my fault that so many 
Americans are so indoctrinated, that they lost the sense of reality 
and appreciation of the truth.


I have visited US around 60 times and I lived and worked in US for 
more than a year, in leading position. I know many Americans and have 
several American friends. During my work as VP Europe for US 
corporations, I also had many Americans working for me. None of them 
would call me anti American and many of them are more critical than me.


I do not know of any viable suggestions of world taxes and would also 
oppose any such arrangement. I have given you official and published 
facts and numbers for foreign aid. It is not my fault if you do not 
like them, so please do not attack the messenger. If you want to 
change things,  do not try to silence the truth, do something about it 
instead. If you want to reduce corruption, start at home and by 
setting an example, then go outwards.


There are many good foreign aid programs, including ones from UN and 
individual national or private levels. The ones that make the 
headlines and that we discuss, are unfortunately the ones that have 
problems. Why there are so many US ones, is because they have so many 
and that the American public generally get less information about the 
world as a whole. It is apparent when you live as a foreigner in US, 
how little international news and information that exist, compared to 
other countries.


Hakan

At 12:02 PM 8/3/2005, you wrote:



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:45:33 +0200
>From: Hakan Falk
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Message-ID:
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>Dale,
>
>It is difficult and 2% is a very high value. European countries have 
a 1 %

>goal and several of them give around 0.8% of GDP. For most European
>countries, it is a true 0.8% with little hooks, like that they have to
>spend the money in purchases from the donor Country.
>
>US give 0.2% of GDP and have spending rules, which forces US purchases.
>Even if you consider that US GDP is 1.5 to 2 times higher than many
>European countries, the US aid is less than half of most European 
Countries
>per capita. In real term it is larger than any other indivi! dual 
country,
>but significantly lower than! EU together. US have the advantage of 
its size

>and population, when they say that they are the largest contributor and
>Europe do not yet count as a nation in this respect.
>

--I want LESS tax in the US not more! A "world tax" might perhaps end 
up getting some good done but at a very low rate of return I would 
expect. I could only imagine the amount of corruption that would feed 
on such a tax. This government, your government, any government is 
subject to corruptive influence.  Where there is massive money there 
is bound to be corruption.  Additionally, we've seen at best 
questionable returns off many foreign aid programs thus far.


>To be able to get a more peaceful world, it helps if the nations 
recognize, respect >and obey international law. It would help a lot 
if US recognized and participated in >the International Court. US 
says that they do not want
>to give anyone else the right to judge US citizens than US courts, 
the rules for the >International court give however the members 
preferred right to persecute any >crimes. It is only if the member do 
not do this, that the International court can come >into play.

>
>
>We all know about the UN problems and the food for oil scandal etc., in
>which many US corporations were the real beneficiaries. I like very 
much
>Galloways speech, when the US called him to testify and announced 
that he
>would be harshly interrogated. The reality was that the US 
representatives

>and US was truthfully exposed in all their own corruptness. I saved the
>speech and it is great, brought it up on my se! rver for a while, if 
someone

>missed it,
>http://hakanfalk.com/msnbc_uk_galloway_blisters_us_on_iraq_050517-01b.wmv 

>Big file 2.5 Mb, but really worth downloading and look/hear at. It 
is not

>often the US representatives look like disoriented school k

Re: [Biofuel] Hey! Let's outsource the pres...

[r]

I agree.  Let's give the president a taste of his own medicine.

Rich

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off

For future reference, here is a good place to start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang#Common_Internet_slang

jh



William Adams wrote:


please bear with me. I'm learning the lingo , but que dice "ROFLMAO"?
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hey! Let's outsource the pres...



ROFLMAO!





___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] blackout 8-14-2003, some comments

[r]

The people of other countries i.e. non-Western, have a much longer
memory than we do in the West. Think about the Bible, transmitted
through oral tradition from generation to generation for thousands of
years.  Here in (civilized) countries, advertisers, bombarding us with
conflicting messages, feed on the confusion, creating short attention
spans, hoping that we remember their products only and not their
competitor's.  If oral traditions, in  the West,  would be  able to
resist the onslaught of advertising, it would be  a miracle. But maybe,
just maybe, the Internet would be help us to spread and transmit
knowledge and traditions both oral and written, with open file formats
and cheap broadband.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  The thing about waging war is that the civilians who die, have
families who don't forget. It will take at least a generation of
healing before a terrorist campaign of our doing is able to subside.
   
  When I say "of our doing", I mean the things our government did
and didn't do, to both extend a hand to those with an open mind and
take care in preventing the crimes of those with a closed mind.
   
  Mike  
  
  Ray J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  All
i have heard, they have said it many times.. that they want us to 
leave them alone to get out of their lands Our way of life 
offends them...
is that so hard??

Ray J


> what do these terrorists want from us? Let’s find out and give it
to 
> them! But then I came to my senses and remembered, they want us
dead. 
> Whoops, maybe we shouldn't’t give it to them after all.
>


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  
  
  
  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] blackout 8-14-2003, some comments

[r]

Bush may be leading us over the cliff, but there is where the buck 
stops, I am certainly not a lemming. I'm getting off the train before 
the crash.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> very hard when they have something we want.

Not if you can get rid of the "want." That's what a real energy policy 
would accomplish.


None of this is a result of an "addiction." It's a matter of choice - 
politically and economically expedient choice. Just that it's turned 
out to also be expediently destructive and deadly.


But do we see the "master" of the U.S. ship of state altering course 
to keep from going over the falls?


Not on your life. And he never will as long as the lives of others and 
not his is what hangs in the balance.


"Damn the human devastation! Full speed ahead!"

Fine Christian principles once again at work there, eh?

Todd Swearingen
...
J.C. for President in 2008
...



Kirk McLoren wrote:


very hard when they have something we want.


*/Ray J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:

All i have heard, they have said it many times.. that they want us to
leave them alone to get out of their lands Our way of life
offends them...
is that so hard??

Ray J


> what do these terrorists want from us? Let’s find out and give
it to
> them! But then I came to my senses and remembered, they want us
dead.
> Whoops, maybe we shouldn’t give it to them after all.
>


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org 



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=34442/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org 



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/





___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] General Motors Layoffs

[r]

I agree.  While wars are raging, the environment is getting destroyed 
and the survivors of those wars will inherit the bounty of a dying earth.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hallo Folks,

I  am  an  old  Flint, Michigan boy.  I know that Detroit gets all the
press  but  Flint  is the home of Buick and Chevrolet.  My grandfather
began  working  at  the Buick factory in Flint in 1915.  He was in the
strikes  back  in  '36 and told me that the union went bad, became the
mirror image of management in '55.  But that isn't what this is about.

General  Motors is laying off 25,000 employees in order to become more
"competitive".   It  blames  its  employees  for the economic problems
citing wages, pension and health benefits.

Oddly  enough  there  is  no mention of building and promoting the gas
guzzling  monsters  it  produces.  There is no mention of the salaries
and  benefits  of  management  either.   Nothing about the bonuses and
benefit  packages  upper  management  receive.   Nothing  but a lot of
finger   pointing. There  does  not  appear  to  be  an  ounce  of
responsibility  in  the  entire crew controlling things at GM, and for
most  other  companies I think.  They not only want to have their cake
and  eat  it too they want to eat from everyone else's plate and force
them to like it.

This  is systemic. The airlines are using bankruptcy to put the screws
to  their  employees  already. Worldcomm, Enron, the airlines, GM. We,
those of us in at least Michigan and Ohio, are going to get 25,000 new
McDonalds  workers  IF  they  can  find  the  work.  And  this  is the
capitalist  model  we want to force on everyone else in the world? All
take and no give? I am so tired of hearing things like, "These are the
realities  of  the  situation...",  "Our  profit  margin  is  not  big
enough.",  "The  problem is due to the high cost of energy.", "We have
to  impose  these wage and benefit cuts because...", and on and on and
on.

What  confounds  me  is  that  their  machinations  are  so  obviously
transparent  and so many people just accept what they say and go along
with  it.   Talk  about  cranial-rectal  inversion.   I  really do not
understand  how  we  allow  those  with  money and power to divert our
attention  by  setting one class/religion/race/country/economic system
or  whatever  against  another  and  thereby  control us.  Are we that
stupid?   If  we aren't then why, as we are being bent over and raped,
do  we  turn  our  heads  and  say,  "Please,  use  a coarser grade of
sandpaper."?   It  is all too apparent that the political and economic
powers  that  be  of  all  countries  are  not truly interested in the
welfare  of  the  world in general.  Neither the welfare of either the
entire  human  race or the world of nature.  The welfare they are most
interested in is the immediate bottom line.  How sad.

There  has  been  a  lot of talk on this list and others and among the
general  public (in the US) about our flag, our military, honor, duty,
etc.,  etc.,  etc.  Well folks, flags, all flags, are only bits of rag
which  are  worth  nothing.   None of them.  One flag is not worth the
life  of one individual human being.  Nor is the bottom line, or race,
or  nationality,  or  religion,  or  political persuasion, or economic
system or any other extraneous condition.

No  one  owns  the  truth.  Not the Christians, or the Muslims, or the
Jews,  or the Hindus, or the Buddhists, or any religious group, or the
philosophers,  or  the  economists, or the politicians.  No one.  Each
have  bits and pieces and snatches of the truth and many claim to have
and  own  the  whole thing but that is an illusion or an outright lie.

If  we  burnt ever single book in the world, bar none, every holy text
and  philosophical  and ethical treatise, everything, we would be left
with ourselves and what resides within.  What are we going to point to
then  for  justification  of our excesses?  Who are we going to blame?

There  are  some  things  which  appear  to defy logic but they really
don't.   We  just  don't  have  all the information even though we may
think  we  do  or  we don't understand what we are seeing or we aren't
seeing  it  because we're looking in the wrong places or for the wrong
thing.  One has to see the dots before they can be connected.  One has
to get beyond name and form to recognize substance.  It is a matter of
perception  and  association.That  which  perceives  can  perceive
everything  it  is supposed to except...itself.  Simple, elemental and
oh so difficult to understand let alone own.

Friends,  we  are  all  one.  One race one world.  None more important
than  the  other,  none of more or less worth.  If we can't treat each
other  and  our  world  with  respect  then we are headed to hell in a
handcart and getting what we deserve.  The differences I have seen are
artificial  constructs and not worth spit.  Do others find it odd that
some  of  us  claim  that  God  or  the gods created 

Re: [Biofuel] Bush: nuclear energy, technology key to climate change

[r]

We do not need nuclear energy nor technology, we need behavior change.  
Alas, this behavior change will only come when enough people see how 
close we are to extinction.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

http://futures.fxstreet.com/Futures/news/afx/singleNew.asp?menu=latest 
news&pv_noticia=1118184629-c84d0f08-46427


Bush: nuclear energy, technology key to climate change
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 10:50:32 PM
http://www.afxpress.com

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch ) --President Bush said Tuesday that the 
United States will support greater investments in technology and 
nuclear power as the solution to reduce harmful pollution and address 
global climate change. The president made his comments at a joint 
press conference with British Prime Minister Tony Blair following a 
meeting at the White House. Blair has placed the issue of climate 
change on the agenda for the forthcoming G8 summit in Scotland in 
July, which the U.K. will host. The U.S. is expected to face continued 
pressure at the international meeting to consider making a commitment 
to cap harmful emissions believed to contribute to climate change.


The U.S., the world's biggest producer of greenhouse gases, refused to 
ratify the United Nations' Kyoto Climate Change protocol hammered out 
in 1997 that aimed to reduce greenhouse gases emitted by 
industrialized nations. The United Kingdom along with a number of 
other nations ratified the binding treaty, which went into effect this 
year.


Bush indicated Tuesday that the administration will support additional 
investments in clean coal research and push for the use of nuclear 
power by developing countries instead of fossil fuel bringing energy 
sources at the meeting.


"To develop and make available clean and efficient technologies that 
will help attain these goals has got to be part of our dialogue at the 
G8," Bush said at a press conference. "On climate change, I think 
everyone knows there are different perspectives on this issue," Blair 
said.


Bush defended U.S. action on climate change saying the U.S. leads the 
world when it comes to dollars spent on research about climate change 
but said more needs to be known. "We want to know more about [climate 
change]," Bush said.



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] question on aquaculture

[r]

Check out http://www.dabney.com/ecogenics/intro.html

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello Kim,

Try looking at this site. 
http://www.dec.ctu.edu.vn/cdrom/cd2/projects/univ_auburn/organic.html

It might be useful,

Best Wishes,
Tim

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Garth & Kim
Travis
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 5:07 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] question on aquaculture


Greetings,

While I am well aware that I am not the greatest at searching on the 
internet, I am fed up after two days of trying to find the information that 
was there a year ago.  Yes, I did down load it, but it went the way of much 
of my data with computer crashes.  I hate to print everything out, but I 
guess I should have.


Anyway, I am looking for information on the manure/fish/plants type of 
aquaculture.  All I am finding is bought food/fish/plants kind.  What 
happened to the information on how much manure of what kind to use with 
which fish?  The last thing I need is anything else on the feed bill and I 
really would like to put my rabbit manure to good use.  [And not as pit 
pearls]


Can anyone help me, please?

Bright Blessings,
Kim

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

 



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Ex-oil lobbyist watered down US climate research

[r]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g8/story/0,13365,1502487,00.html

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] When corporations rule the world

[r]

These corporations are too big, suffering from gigantism.  As a 
shareholder, I wonder what I can do to bring these giant corporations 
back down to a more human size.  I noticed, when I get my stock proxy 
forms, that invariably, corporation officers advise voting stockholders 
to turn down proposals submitted by other stockholders.  In return, I 
vote, in my proxy, exactly the opposite that the board of directors 
recommend.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


lol

keith, i was laying on the sasrcasm pretty thick, or thought i was.

you're right about schmeiser.  i thought the fact that he's canadian is 
interesting.  i'd be curious to know whether monsanto is basing it's claim, wholly 
or in part, on provisions of NAFTA.  another vehicle for eliminating 
'frivolous' lawsuits (darn near restrictions of any kind, actually) against 
corporations.


-chris

In a message dated 6/12/05 2:02:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< >so much for congress' new tort reform eliminating frivolous lawsuits!

 



 


-chris
   




Hi Chris


It's a one-edged sword, and that's not the direction it's intended to 


cut. >>


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

 



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat

[r]

I went to a biodiesel convention and saw a booth on animal fat 
conversion to biodiesel, the process is called "rendering".


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi you all

The investors team  have defined we will start our industrial 
biodiesel production and fuel production using animal fat. I have 
gone  "thru" several sources and found very litllte info and 
literature about production strating from animal fat. Can you folks 
help me on this?? Very best

Chico Ramos

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?

[r]

In any transaction, all parties entering in it should be coming out of 
it winners.  In other words, it should be a win-win situation for all 
parties.  The problem is, many transactions, if not all, which big 
corporations entered into with organizations of other countries, these 
foreign organizations, corporations, got the short end of the stick.  No 
wonder there is resentment.  Who wants to play with a cheating bully?


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Chris,

Doug's writing and references represent a clear overview of only a 
small part of American policies and relations to towards the global 
environment. It is a good explanation on why so many "hate Americans", 
which is in reality their representatives (political and business) 
squandering of resources and disrespect for environments that are not 
theirs. US corporations have during many years raped developing 
countries on their wealth, by using all the tricks in the book, to get 
resource cheaply, making huge profits and destroying environments 
along the way.


You can either do what Doug does, explain a few attitudes and actions 
and let the reader make a judgement or you can directly express your 
own judgement. The result is the same, but in the first case you are 
clear-headed and in the second case you "hate Americans". LOL


If someone says that US, as a nation, lead by a government and active 
global corporations, is destroying the environment (being dirty), 
fraudulent in their squandering of resources, lack of respect to the 
global community, war hungry and willing to kill, rape (not women 
necessary) and steal the victim's valuables (as corporations). Then 
you are very rapidly accused to hate Americans individuals in general. 
If you instead list a number of actual cases that represent the 
mentioned behavior, then you are clear-headed. LOL


It is very few that hate any American individuals, in reality most 
people like the Americans very much. It is many things for which 
Americans are loved, but it is for sure not anything connected to 
foreign policy or US global corporations. Unfortunately, this is a 
list for biofuels and replacement of fossil fuels are subjects that 
are very close to what is wrong with US and therefore heated 
discussions cannot be avoided. If it was a list for movie making, I am 
sure that US in many cases would be hailed as a good and shining example.


Hakan


At 03:00 PM 6/23/2005, you wrote:


Doug,
Excellent!! Its good to see something so clear-headed written on the 
subject, as opposed to, and I meant no offense, an earlier email 
along the lines of "I-hate-Americans".


I agree fully with a lot of what the article had to say, except that 
this slippery-slope talk makes a little queasy,

"With the highly symbolic battle
over the Arctic Refuge won, conservatives are now free to kick-start
America's nuclear power binge, expand coal-bed methane mining in the
Rocky Mountain West and ensure that no serious efforts to combat
global warming will ever see the light of day."

 I feel like I'm reading FOX news for liberals. That sounds about as 
base-less and sensational as news writing gets. But maybe i'm being 
nit-picky


-Chris

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:20 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?

It seems to me that this "environmentalism is dead" movement is
setting up a straw man and then knocking it down.

It defines environmentalism as a set of isolated responses to isolated
symptoms, and then says that because the symptoms are not being cured,
the response to them is futile. The solution is said to be action in a
larger context, which is said to be the nature of human society and its
economy; the relations among humans. Environmental problems are regarded
as a subset of human problems.

I think this is a subtle and destructive perversion of the real 
situation.


To me the problem is fundamentally the relation between humans and the
Earth, and especially though not entirely, the community of life on 
Earth.


We need to recognize that humans are an inseparable part of the 
community

of life on Earth, and that when, as now, we are capable of damaging that
community, we have to limit the size of our population and our impact
on the whole community to preserve the whole community of life and our
means of subsistence.

We also need to adapt the human economy over several generations to a
consumption of mineral resources which can be sustained indefinitely and
which will amount on a planetary scale over a long period to a recycling
economy similar to that of the community of life in which plant roots
and phytoplankton take minerals from the more or less evenly distributed
supply in the soil and the sea and make them available to the rest of
the community of life.

We need to stay focused on the relationship between humans and living

[Biofuel] Knowledge Of Nitrogen Transfer Between Plants And Beneficial Fungi Expands

[r]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050619193216.htm

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Cheating bully

[r]

Yet, I think there is still hope.  Microsoft, one of the world's biggest 
bullies, is facing its biggest battle from the community: Linux.  I have 
been tracking Linux for a while now, and countries around the world are 
finally standing up to the Microsoft bully.  It is nice to finally see 
people who "have balls".  Countries, spending less on infrastructure 
software, will be able to spend more toward pressing social needs.


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?

[r]

There should be a middle ground somewhere.  I think one of the reasons 
communism failed was because it failed to take into people's 
motivations.  Some people are happy just scraping by but some other 
people are more ambitious, they want more, sometimes a lot more.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi Gustl,
 
"Capitalism and Communism, sworn enemies, are  now  not  only in bed 
together..."
 
This could really open Pandora's box and start a whole new thread on 
it's own.
 
Capitalism (IMO) is a kind of social-economic Darwinism which depends 
on a percentage of the population to be poor and desperate for work in 
order to maintain an economically "healthy" labor pool. Communism is a 
little more dependent on who's definition you subscribe to (top-down 
or bottom-up models) -- especially since McCarthy promoted his own 
definition of it. In my opinion, communism and capitalism, according 
to Marx and Engels, cannot co-exist. I would also say that according 
to Lenin and Trotsky's interpretation of the manifesto, the aim was, 
or should be, a bottom-up order of priorities, where the working class 
were collectively responsible (by the incorporation of Soviets) for 
the future of their country.
 
Although (IMO) communism and capitalism cannot co-exist, a socialist 
influence can be incorporated into a capitalist society (i.e. unions) 
to prevent a trend of class seperation which can get out of control.
 
It's clear to me what I would prefer, if asked to point out a better 
model/theory of democracy (irrespective of whether or not they work in 
practice).
 
Mike


*/Gustl Steiner-Zehender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:

Hallo Hakan,

Friday, 24 June, 2005, 05:41:29, you wrote:
Some thoughts below prompted by this mail and the ones leading up to
it but directed generally not at anyone specifically.
HF> Rich,
HF> I think that you put the finger on the reasons why there are a
large
HF> mistrust in America by saying "who wants to play with a
cheating bully".
HF> Only to complete what you are saying, the US government
actively facilitate
HF> and support the behavior of their corporations. It is no
surprise, if you
HF> are educated and know the "democratic" electoral process in
the US, were
HF> politicians cannot be elected to office without the financial
support from
HF> corporations. For a foreigner, used to democracies, it is
amazing that US
HF> try to sell their variant of democracy, as a superior version.
HF> Hakan

When there is a "cheating bully" there are always the running mates
who go along with the bully. The US just happens to be the biggest
dog on the block at the moment. In the past, relatively recent and
not so recent, it was not always so. Before there was a USA there was
always another cheating bully and after the US loses it position of
strength and advantage there will be another. And that other will
have running mates just as the bully from the next block has their
running mates.

You have to know in your heart that there are no innocent regimes or
states. Not even the Vatican comes away with clean hands. Not even
the Swiss or Swedes or anyone else. The transgressions may differ in
degree or scope but they are still there. Organizations are soulless
and in the main without conscience. The agenda of the organization
becomes more important than that which is right. The tree huggers
drive spikes into trees not caring for the safety of the lumberjacks
whom they oppose. The right-to-lifers bomb abortion clinics not
caring about the lives of those they oppose. The US supreme court
just granted local governments the "right" to take land away from its
owners and sell it to corporations for commercial development because
it "benefits the community" not caring about the families who have
lived on the land for decades. It makes no difference whether the
organization is left, right or middle it is always the same.

Democracy of whatever stripe has nothing to do with it. It is a
matter of "the bottom line". Capitalism and Communism, sworn enemies,
are now not only in bed together they are engaged in hot and sweaty
sex. Two economic opposites now strolling hand-in-hand down the lane
at the expense of those not of the economic or political elite. But
brother, what are our eyes on and who is pointing out the direction in
which we are looking? If the welfare of the planet and everything on
it is the prize then why is it that we are looking at everything but
that? Why are we looking at "what they did wrong" rather than what it
is we all ought to be doing? We demonize others in order to impose a
certain point of view. We minimize or ignore our own faults and wrong
actions and point out every single failure of those we oppose and wish
to control.

People don't hate the US because of what they are

[Biofuel] Star Wars failure

[r]

I saw a fascinating presentation on C-SPAN by Representative Roscoe 
Bartlett on the effects of ElectroMagnetic Pulse attack on the american 
economy. The detonation of a nuclear missile high in the american 
atmosphere has the serious possibility to disrupt our society for years 
to come.  Check out 
http://www.aussurvivalist.com/nuclear/empprotection.htm.  Yet the $130  
billion-plus Star Wars program would fail to protect us from an 
eventuality such as an EMP attack.  Check out 
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/24/opinion/24fri3.html?th&emc=th.   Free 
registration required.


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Cheating bully

[r]

A bully creates his own rules and expects others to follow them.

Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Cheating bully

[r]

I think there is a tipping point somewhere.  On the Internet, I saw web 
pages saying that it had already been reached, where it will be 
Microsoft who will have to do the catching up, not Linux.  Microsoft 
will have to make its software more Linux-friendly.  I read on linux.org 
that Microsoft was taking more conciliatory tones toward Linux and open 
source in general.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have been a linux user for over 5 years. I consider M$ software to be 
overpriced, particularly for the well known 'bugs' it contains.
M$ needed a competitor to bring the company back to reality. Unfortunately 
any commercial competitor is either bought out, or suffers from 
anti-competitive behavior. Linux is the only competitor to survive this. 
(Although M$ is currently buying patents to restrict the operability of Linux 
with M$ products.)
M$ products, however do have their place, and Linux is not always the answer. 
I find I no longer need, or want many commercial software products. This does 
not mean Linux is free (as in Free-beer), but I pay for it by trying to help 
the community (as a non-programmer by assisting with documentation, 
proof-reading, etc.) Linux is becoming very easy to use, and some programs 
are at least the equal of any M$ offering. The main reason I think Linux will 
be adopted more is because Linux is generally not afflicted by the viruses 
that Plague M$. (This is partly due to design, because to make a file 
execute, the user must change the file status. This stops many of the type of 
email virus that afflict Outlook Explorer.) However a Linux virus is not 
impossible, and there have been worms, but they seem to be controlled much 
better than the ones that afflict M$ products. To be blunt, I have never had 
a virus checker on my computer, or ever felt the need for one. I do keep the 
system updated, however, and make sure I use reasonable security measures.


If people wish to look at Linux now, I suggest downloading Mepis Lite from 
. This is a live CD (meaning it can be run directly from the CD, 
without installation on the computer), that will run on old hardware. It 
comes with most of the software the average user requires- Wordprocessor, 
browser, email graphics, etc. Mepis can be fully installed later if you like 
it. (co-existing with M$ if you must!)


regards Doug
(who never has to run stolen software) 


On Saturday 25 June 2005 12:43, Chris Lloyd wrote:
 


Yet, I think there is still hope.  Microsoft, one of the world's
 


biggest
bullies, is facing its biggest battle from the community: Linux.  I have

been tracking Linux for a while now, and countries around the world are
finally standing up to the Microsoft bully.  It is nice to finally see
people who "have balls".  Countries, spending less on infrastructure
software, will be able to spend more toward pressing social needs. <

I will never understand why people think Microsoft is a bully. You never
have been forced to use it, I had a choice of several programs in the
60s but they were all a pain to use. I still think Amiga was one of the
best systems for graphics but lest face it only around 10% of computer
users have paid for all their computer software so what's all the fuss
about.   Chris.

Wessex Ferret Club  (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk)
   



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

 



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] War-bent administration

[r]

If this war-bent administration really wants Thirld World War, all it 
has to do is keep bossing around China, especially concerning petroleum 
issues.


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Gilded cage

[r]

The American society is in a gilded cage.  So sad.

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Mystery logo

[r]

I saw a few logos stamped on the inside of the gas tank fuel door of my 
vehicle, a 2003 Dodge Caravan SE.  One of them, I found out is "E85", 
the symbol for "ethanol 85".   Another symbol, which is a mystery to me, 
represents the letter "i" stamped on the right page of a book.  Any 
ideas as to the meaning of the "i inside a book" symbol?


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?

[r]

I think that the commercial interest behind the government keep trying
to prevent people, consumers from getting together to compare notes,
form consumer spending strategies, etc.  As they say, "in union is
strength
".  I think that if major corporations could have their way, the
Internet would not exist today, or even it did, it would exist for the
sole purpose to enhance their marketing capabilities.  Sorry, big
corporations, but you are too late, the cat is out of the bag now. I
remember the time when Microsoft(TM) said that the Internet was a fad.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  From: Rousseau, Jean-Jacques: The Social
Contract (1762)
  http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_2/rousseau.html
   
  
  "Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains. One thinks
himself the master of others, and still remains a greater slave than
they."
   
  Perhaps more importantly...
   
  "But, as men cannot engender new forces, but only unite and
direct existing ones, they have no other means of preserving themselves
than the formation, by aggregation, of a sum of forces great enough to
overcome the resistance. These they have to bring into play by means of
a single motive power, and cause to act in
concert. (2)"
   
  Isn't it ironic that Franklin once said "We must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang
separately" since it's our government who (IMO) would prefer to see us
divided.
   
  Times have changed,
haven't they.
   
  ...Mike
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

sorry, i forgot who originally wrote this in reply response to
my earlier statement, but i have to echo k's comment.
 
what you refer to is the 'social contract', as many historians
like to call it, which formed the basis of feudalism.  serfs were bound
to their lords, as you say.  they had to provide the rents (or skilled
labor if they were a blacksmith or mason, etc.) which supported their
lords' lifestyle and privileges.  in exchange, they essentially were
allowed to live.
 
but they were not--at least not usually--bound in chains. 
they could leave if they were so resolved.  not in broad daylight, of
course, and as i said there were many factors which complicated
matters.  but there was nothing like today's institutionalized controls
on a person's movements.
 
-chris
 
>Before the Black Death serfs were bound to their lords,
not allowed to 
>leave, move house or marry with his permission. Serfdom was just
another 
>name for slavery. Chris. 
 
Only before the Black Death?

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  
  
  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Pendulum

[R Pentney]

Pick up a 10 lb weight with a rope or chain and swing it so you can 
feel the extra weight at the bottom of the swing. Now shorten the 
rope by half and try it again. The impulse is less, of course much 
faster reps and therefore the time during which the impulse is 
applied is much less - therefore less work is done.
Now look again at his pictures. That pendulum has such a ridiculously 
short length it cannot possibly pump water on its own. The impulse 
time is too short to move the pump lever far enough.
Anybody care to try the math?
Robin


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] help

[R Heron]

Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I 
can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer.
Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil 
is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate.
Russel
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Heron;Russel
FN:Russel Heron
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
REV:20060207T204853Z
END:VCARD
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] help

[R Heron]

Thanks Joe
Theoretical is .914 to .917 at 20 
deg.C
so .92 at 18 deg. C is very close.
Appreciate the help
Russel

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Joe Street 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:01 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] help
  Mine has a specific gravity of about 0.92 but I don't think I 
  was at 15 degrees C when I measured it.  Probably more like 18 
  deg.JoeR Heron wrote:
  



Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but 
I can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer.
Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola 
oil is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate.
Russel___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  
  
  

  ___Biofuel mailing 
  listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
  at Journey to 
  Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the 
  combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
  messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
  
  

  No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free 
  Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 
  2/6/2006
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners

[R Heron]

Hi Tim
At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a 
rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit.
Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but 
a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel.
Russel
- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Hadland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners


>
>
>   Been approached by someone selling these from this company:
>
>  http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm
>
>I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ?
>
>   cheers Tim
>
>
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
> messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006
>
> 


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Liberty BD Issues?

[R Heron]

computer is sensitive to BD percentages

computers can be tricked into believing any thing we tell them
It might take a few heads to work it out but I wouldn't let it stop me 
without a fight.
+
- Original Message - 
From: "Kurt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Liberty BD Issues?


> I've been lurking about here for a while, just watching, reading, and
> boosting my skill level quietly in the background; I'm making small
> 2-liter batches regularly now and just adding them to the F250 tank as a
> "System Cleaner" additive. ;) When I have more money, I shall work on
> scaling up.
>
> Anyway, reacquaintances aside, I was wondering if anyone on the list has
> had experience with the Jeep Liberty CRD engine. I've been reading up on
> it, it seems like a not-too-shabby little diesel, perky enough for the
> job and so forth, but I've also seen people suggest that the computer is
> sensitive to BD percentages and starts to throw problems after you go
> over the B20 line; anyone else heard this?
>
> I'm hoping someone here will debunk these rumours, as there's the
> possible chance of one of these engines making its way into a wagon I'm
> looking at acquiring with the intention of doing a diesel conversion.
> And I'd really rather not still be reliant on Petro, you know?
>
> Peace all
> -Kurt
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
> messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006
>
> 


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[biofuel] BD troubles

[Martin R.]

Hi all
made another batch today only find out that my PH meter shit it self and 
gave me
a wrong reading , the entire batch turned to a semi--jelly but still a 
somewhat of a liquid
is there any way that this batch of soap jelly can be turned back to BD 
fuel 

thanks Martin R.


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95
Refill any ink cartridge for less!
Includes black and color ink.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/E11sED/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Hi Clone imfo.

[Martin R.]

Hi all
have a read what Mark from Hiclone had to say about your comments that I 
send to him

Martin R.



Hi Martin
There are two types of people in the world the Dinosaurs and the open minded.
The Dinosaurs live on their flat world, and are too scared to travel and 
learn as they know that one day they will fall off the edge.
The Open Minded shall inherit the earth.
Vintage cars used an air filter which was a series of vanes which would 
spin the dust out of the air, no filter element. We can now buy "Modern" 
vacuum cleaners which don't have bags.
Also in the 1920's it was discovered that you could place these vanes in a 
different arrangement and create an airstream which could atomise the fuel 
and carry it through the centre of a cyclone type airstream to the 
combustion chamber. The idea was then lost to people who had financial 
reasons for hiding this technology. So why it works on carb. engines is 
easy to understand.
You can find many similar devises installed on production cars also -
Porsche has units in their air intakes,
Corvette throttle body injection has units,
Subaru WRX in 2000 has 4 units to increase swirl to pass US emission laws 
which also results in 10% more economy.Mitsubishi have a direct petrol 
injection engine which gives 20% more economy, For $160 we can give the 
current engine 15% more economy.
The general rule with the car industry is they only give you what the 
regulations dictate, every time the government brings in a new emission 
standard the only ever meet it and don't exceed it.
If modern cars are so efficient why do they need Cat. Converters to break 
down the unburnt fuel, Why in some countries do Diesels also need Cats. as 
well???
I have Diesel Smokemeter test results showing 50% reduction in fuel smoke, 
an installation time between tests of 7 minutes.
I have tested a cylinder head and manifold on a test bench which showed an 
increase in swirl in the combustion chamber from 270 rpm to 980 rpm (over 3 
times the swirl). How long does it take to stop swirl, and how long does 
the combustion process take???
If you can increase swirl in the combustion, this means a faster moving 
flame front over the crown of the piston, a more even down force on the 
piston means less piston slap against the bore, which results in less 
mechanical noise.
Every combustion engine, every type of fuel, is mixed with air at the 
combustion chamber.
Is Hiclone a restriction??
Jeep 4.0l efi breathes through a plastic plug in venturi, which reduces the 
air flow down from a 75mm hole down to a 50mm hole,
A Mercedes large ( over 8.0l ) bus engine breathes through a 40mm hole,
Mercedes 3.0l car also 40mm,
The blades of a Hiclone are less than 0.5 mm thick. On a V8 5.0l engine we 
use a 78mm Hiclone for a 65mm throttle disc???
Why use more than one Hiclone on one car, My car has 12 Hiclones and has 
gone from 17mpg to 36mpg, 8 in the manifold, 3 in the hose from the air 
filter and one in the exhaust. Now it has more and I am to start testing 
again soon.
Hiclone has a money-back guarantee, I never make it compulsory to buy more 
than one(unless the car has two or more air intakes) I let my customers 
decide what works on their cars. I have customers with 9 on one car, they 
started with only one and they wanted to try more.
For the dinosaurs, I don't pay for your fuel, and I'll catch up with you, 
when you catch up with the modern world.
Why do we fit it before turbo's as well as after???
A 21% power increase at 90kmh on a Saab turbo in 3rd gear, Reduced Turbo Lag.
A turbo is 2 fans on a common shaft, one turned by the exhaust gas, which 
turns and pressurises the intake air. If the air is already spinning this 
requires less effort from the exhaust gas and less heat, to pressurise the 
intake manifold.
But I must also say that Hiclone does have some problems, this mainly 
concerns some of the people selling them. Because it seems like such a 
simple product, some of the wrong people end up trying to sell them. You 
wouldn't go to a butchers shop for open heart surgery, So I don't 
understand why some people some people want to buy auto parts from a failed 
restaurateur(in Queensland) and you also pay more for the lack of service 
as well. These people no longer have access to our fitment catalogues or 
information services. They only have a 60% success rating, where as 
mechanics have 99% success ratings. Hiclone do not recommend the magnetic 
devices anymore, due to ethics. THERE ARE OVER 15 COMPANIES IN AUSTRALIA, 
WHO ALL THINK THEY ARE THE SOLE AUST. DISTRIBUTORS OF THE SAME PRODUCT. You 
can buy them from $60 to $160, depending on who you choose to buy them 
from, and how greedy the salesman is.
At Hiclone Pty. Ltd we-
write the fitment catalogues,
do all the testing,
supply over 300 mechanical shops,
custom design and manufacture.
We do special projects for racing teams, which require totally different 
designs.
Our aim is to b

[biofuel] why not ask Mark from Hi clone your selfs

[Martin R.]

Hi Steve

I'm a mechanic as well how ever I don't know Mark personably and 
thought I let him
explain . why don't you and others ask him direct on what it is you all 
want to know about
the Hi clone and its claims and so on as I did

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Martin R.



At 09:25 PM 5/11/01, you wrote:
>I guess you glossed over my explanation of the diesel power cycle.
>
>Did I mention I've been working on diesel's for 20 years. My grandfather
>started the business 50 years ago. Did I mention I went to school for
>Engineering Science? I only asked you to explain how this could work in a
>diesel, and since you could not explain, how am I to take your claims
>seriously? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
>
>
>Steve Spence
>Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
><http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
>
>Renewable Energy Pages - 
><http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/>http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
>Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
><http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm>http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>- Original Message -
>From: "bloke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 4:22 AM
>Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hiclone
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I love the unbiased scientific procedure used . " they sell magnets , they
>not credible"
> > A Hiclone got nothing to do with magnets.
> > Its got to do with air flow
> > It has not been in any way proved to not work other than " They sell
>magnets"
> > Somehow , in the unbiased and totaly openminded evaluation of Hiclone by
>the scientist , them magnets sorta stuck things up.
> > Its just too bad .
> > For science that is.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 08:24:56 -0500
> > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hiclone
> > >
> > >I've seen no log book evidence by an unbiased accredited testing lab. Is
> > >that too much too ask? We had a friend that used to go on and on about
>the
> > >great mileage his vw used to get. Finally some other "friends" got tired
>of
> > >hearing about it all the time, and started adding a little fuel time
>after
> > >time. He got so excited about his "80mpg car" he called vw. when he
>finally
> > >found out what was going on, he wouldn't speak with them for close to a
> > >year. So, logbooks? hmm..
> > >
> > >Steve Spence
> > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> > ><http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> > >
> > >Renewable Energy Pages - 
> <http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/>http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
> > >Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
> > ><http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm>http://24.190.106.81:838 
> 3/2000/humanpower.htm
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >- Original Message -
> > >From: "Neoteric Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: 
> > >Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 4:34 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hiclone
> > >
> > >
> > >> Ok. remote chance, not too likely, and the log book evidence that's
>been
> > >> presented...
> > >>
> > >> Well, who knows. Certainly, the company offers no solid proof they work
> > >(the
> > >> devices...well maybe not the perps either), which would help their
>sales
> > >> quite a lot, so ya gotta wonder about that.
> > >>
> > >> But hey, don't be so tough on them about the magnets.
> > >>
> > >> I put magnets on my fuel line.
> > >>
> > >> My appetite increased  (well, maybe it was the SVO exhaust ) and I saw
>a
> > >5%
> > >> increase in fuel economy in the cars next to me at stop lights (there
>is
> > >> some evidence to suggest this may have been attributable to the fact
>that
> > >> their inferior spark ignition systems were interrupted by the powerful
> > >> magnetic field emanating from my diesel vehicle, causing inductive
> > >stalling
> > >> tendencies).
> > >>
> > >> I did win a lot of pink slips in drag racing against such unsuspecting
> > >> owners with my 300D, having issued the challenge
> &

Re: [biofuel] why not ask Mark from Hi clone your selfs

[Martin R.]

Well go and ask him then

Martin R.


At 11:16 AM 6/11/01, you wrote:
>I want unbiased accredited testing. not interested in dubious manufacturers
>claims.
>
>
>Steve Spence
>Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
><http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
>
>Renewable Energy Pages - 
><http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/>http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
>Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
><http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm>http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>- Original Message -
>From: "Martin R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 5:43 AM
>Subject: [biofuel] why not ask Mark from Hi clone your selfs
>
>
> > Hi Steve
> >
> > I'm a mechanic as well how ever I don't know Mark personably and
> > thought I let him
> > explain . why don't you and others ask him direct on what it is you all
> > want to know about
> > the Hi clone and its claims and so on as I did
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > Martin R.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 09:25 PM 5/11/01, you wrote:
> > >I guess you glossed over my explanation of the diesel power cycle.
> > >
> > >Did I mention I've been working on diesel's for 20 years. My grandfather
> > >started the business 50 years ago. Did I mention I went to school for
> > >Engineering Science? I only asked you to explain how this could work in a
> > >diesel, and since you could not explain, how am I to take your claims
> > >seriously? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
> > >
> > >
> > >Steve Spence
> > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> >
> ><<http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.h 
> tm>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> > >
> > >Renewable Energy Pages -
> > ><<http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/>http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/>http:// 
> www.webconx.dns2go.com/
> > >Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
> >
> ><<http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm>http://24.190.106.81:8383 
> /2000/humanpower.htm>http://24.190.106.81:8383/20
>00/humanpower.htm
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >- Original Message -
> > >From: "bloke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: 
> > >Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 4:22 AM
> > >Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hiclone
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I love the unbiased scientific procedure used . " they sell magnets ,
>they
> > >not credible"
> > > > A Hiclone got nothing to do with magnets.
> > > > Its got to do with air flow
> > > > It has not been in any way proved to not work other than " They sell
> > >magnets"
> > > > Somehow , in the unbiased and totaly openminded evaluation of Hiclone
>by
> > >the scientist , them magnets sorta stuck things up.
> > > > Its just too bad .
> > > > For science that is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Sent: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 08:24:56 -0500
> > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hiclone
> > > > >
> > > > >I've seen no log book evidence by an unbiased accredited testing lab.
>Is
> > > > >that too much too ask? We had a friend that used to go on and on
>about
> > >the
> > > > >great mileage his vw used to get. Finally some other "friends" got
>tired
> > >of
> > > > >hearing about it all the time, and started adding a little fuel time
> > >after
> > > > >time. He got so excited about his "80mpg car" he called vw. when he
> > >finally
> > > > >found out what was going on, he wouldn't speak with them for close to
>a
> > > > >year. So, logbooks? hmm..
> > > > >
> > > > >Steve Spence
> > > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> > > >
> ><<http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.h 
> tm>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> > > > >
> > > > >Renewable Energy Pages -
> > > 
&

[biofuel] address needed

[Martin R.]

what is the address for un-subscribing

going away for a few weeks and dont want to end up
waiting for days to download all incomings

thanks Martin R. 


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Unlimited calling with 3-way conferencing. Only $1/Mo.
with CrystalVoice! FREE trial. Click Here.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hb1xVB/HxbDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel]

[Martin R.]

Hi to all
I'am new to all of this so please excuse all the questions

I don't know how my bio diesel should look like when it is the finished 
product 
should it be clear or is cloudy ok ??? the test batch that I have made , 
burns in my fire place much the same as super diesel and kerosine and has a 
BBQ type smell to it
and why use Isopropyl alcohol in the titration why not just use methanol 
instead ??
when it comes to mixing the methanol and caustic soda (C/S) what is a good 
way to mix it so that all the C/S is being mixed completely in with the 
methanol mixture
I have put the C/S into a blender until it is in power form but there are 
always some granules still in the bottom of the glycerine is this normal
the top layer is a golden honey colour and the lower layer is black but not 
a gel at all . With this test batch I drained the top off and added water 
to it and shook it for 5 min
and let it sit over night the water turned white from the methanol and the 
top layer was still like honey but not clear at all is this normal?? and is 
it usable in that state .
do you wash your B/D ??? from all the sites on-line that I have read some 
tell you to wash it others don't , some tell you to heat the WVO others 
don't , I have made test batches using methanol instead of using Isopropyl 
alcohol in the titration and have the two layers form just as well
sorry for all these questions but I don't really want to blow my Land 
cruiser up just yet ..

what do most people use as mixers and what are some easy mixers to make


Martin R. (Sydney Aust.)


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Re: Hemp in America

[r . garrod]

I was aware that there were/are some fairly stringent regulations, but 
I heard that there has been a very recent decision that has completely 
dashed any hopes of a relaxation.

Does anyone have any further information? Or is this an erroneous 
piece of information?



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> indeed, for many decades.
> 
> Steve Spence
> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> 
> Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
> Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
> X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
> We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
> we borrow it from our children.
> --
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 4:19 AM
> Subject: [biofuel] Hemp in America
> 
> 
> > I have just been told that hemp has been banned in America. Is 
this
> > true?
> >
> > RG
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Small business owners...
Tell us what you think!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Methanol Recovery

[Martin R.]

Hi All

Dose anyone have Plans on how to make your own still !!!
to recover the Methanol out of the water and glycerine ???
without using vacuum pumps just using the old way of distilling

Martin R. 


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Small business owners...
Tell us what you think!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] BD as two stroke oil ???

[Martin R.]

 Hi there
 has any-one ever tired to use BD as two stroke oil ,
 to be used in chain saw or 2 stroke mowers ??


 Martin R.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
The Nissan Sentra
Everything but compact
http://NissanDriven.com
http://us.click.yahoo.com/3vsIKC/txlCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] BD 2 stroke oil update

[Martin R.]

 Hi All

 Well some said no and some yes , I'm here to say that it dose work
 as 2 stroke oil and quite well at that , at first I was hasades to 
use it in my chain saw
 but after a while and having given it some thought, I used a 20 to 
1  mix and it worked
 fine the smell is some what that off a high grade synthetic 2 
stroke oil that I have used
 in the past , after using the saw for 2.5 hours in one go on dead 
Australian hard wood
 with no hick ups I was very impressed to say the leased

 So there you go, you can use it as 2 stroke oil and don't let 
any-one tell you other wise
 until they had tried it for them selfs

     Martin R.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Learn Trading Tips the Professional Traders Use!
Free Newsletter from Optionetics.com
http://us.click.yahoo.com/q1ufhB/ZR9CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] BD 2 Stroke oil

[Martin R.]

Hi All

In all my 2 Stroke engines , I use 20:1 Mix , better to blow some smoke
then one at all . no smoke make's your saw run leaner and hotter and
run the risk sizing your saw greater more oil will make your 2 stroke engine
last longer for spark plugs are cheaper then an engine rebuild and the
saw I use is a Dolmar chain saw
so I will use BD from now on  at 20:1 Mix
good luck to all

Martin R.


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Bd 2 stroke

[Martin R.]

RUBBISH  you can NOT size an engine by over oiling the fuel .
By adding a 20:1 mix all you will do , if the engine is designed for 50:1
is the chance of ring bind . Which is the engine will not run properly nor will
it not rev out the way it was meant to  . This is what WE in the mechanical
trade call ""4 stroking"" YES at that point the engine will size
before any engine wether it be 2 stroke , super fuel or diesel engine
if you add oil into the fuel, all it will ever do it smoke more then usual
and will foul the spark plug up well before any engine seizure providing
""4 stroking dose mot occur""

50:1 or higher is what some manufactures recommend , because they do not 
want you to try
and experiment with fuel mixture  for just this reason .
try this one on for size then a friend of mine builds model airplanes , and 
those engines rev out well
over 15000 RPM and runs on methanol fuel mix . to prove a point we used 
50:1 mix using BD as castor oil
substitute , knowing that it could blow up , ""he is well off and said to 
me it's only an engine .""
and you know it did not blow up at all
so if you have a spare engine try it , if your game !!!


Martin R.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] I eat my hat

[Martin R.]

Hi all

it looks like that I might of been wrong in a way's about BD 2 stroke oil
and that with the high revving engine's that are around today , with BD
being as thin as it is , there could be some failure in these engines with BD
in the long term . so there ,  I eat my hat , at least I brought forward a 
good point
for the group . After all this is a discussion group is it not


would be good though if there was some one in the group that has test 
equipment
to test the BD , and see just how good its lubrication qualities are as a 2 
stroke oil

  Martin R.


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] upper cylinder lube ???

[Martin R.]

Hi all
Here is another thought that came to mind

Has any one used BD as upper cylinder lube on 4 stroke engines ???
and would it work ???

Martin R


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] BD as engine flush

[Martin R.]

Hi all
Has anyone used BD as an engine flush before there oil change ???

Martin R.


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel]

[Martin R.]

Hi Allan
works fine in my turbo Land cruiser , and has done so for some time

Martin R.

At 06:44 PM 24/09/01, you wrote:
>Does anyone know how bio-diesle affects turbo-diesel engines.
>
>Allan
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>ADVERTISEMENT
>a54546.jpg
>a54592.jpg
>a545b1.jpg
>
>a545b9.jpg
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] soap in BD

[Martin R.]

Hi all

Made a batch of BD and after letting it sit for a while ,put the BD in the 
wash tank
and started to wash it and then went away for six hours only
to find that the soap suds had over flown and ended up all over the floor
This is the first time that this has happened to me . what happened to
my BD from this batch and how can I fix my Bubbles so they don't bubble
all over the floor again ???
I thought of reheating the BD and let it settle of a few days then scoop of 
the
top layer again  and re wash as per normal , would this work???
or is there some other trick to my BUBBLES ???

Martin R. 


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Help needed

[Martin R.]

Hi Ben
Cant help you much but
once you done these test's would be good to see the difference in power and 
so on
may-by you could post them once there done and let all have a look at them

Martin R.

At 01:42 AM 18/10/01, you wrote:
>Subject:
>[Biodiesel] Help needed
>   Date:
>Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:36:51 EDT
>  From:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>I have several questions about bio diesel and waste vegetable oil, and I
>hope
>someone can point me in the right direction.
>I am a High School shop teacher, and my students are doing a science
>fair
>project on alternative diesel fuels.
>We are going to compare diesel, biodiesel, vegetable oil and filtered
>waste
>vegetable oil on a 4 HP engine. I have a dynamometer, gas analyzer, and
>various sensors and thermocouples so we can get a full range of data on
>all
>the fuels.
>
>Where can I find the btu content of all those fuels? Or better yet, is
>there
>any way we can find it experimentally?
>
>Also, what is the best source of filters for the waste oil?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Ben Hazel
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>ADVERTISEMENT
><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.1637497.3177299.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=766942/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3225>15ec29.jpg
>15ecba.jpg
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Question's

[Martin R.]

Hi all

can some one tell me how long one should mix the BD for ???
I mix for one hour

also when working out the titration ,I was told that the PH should be 
between 8 and 9 is this correct  ??
Most of my batches are around 8.3 to 8.7 PH

the trouble that I had with the bubbles in my BD was with the PH of the mix 
being 8.35 PH
and still got all the extra soap in my fuel  .

How low can you go on the PH scale for the oil mixture  to react and form BD
and what is the least amount of Methanol one can use , say in 100L.

Many thanks Martin R.  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

RE: [biofuel] Question's

[Martin R.]

Hi Mike
I use about 1 L  of vinegar per 100L of BD but only at the wash stage
Do you mean to say add the vinegar to the BD --that has a high soap contend 
-- and then
bubble wash with no water , BD and vinegar mixture together ???

Martin R.


At 03:45 PM 20/10/01, you wrote:
>Martin,
>
>I found that the addition of 'MUCH' more vinegar with LOW agitation helped
>improve the return considerably.  Be patient!!
>
>Mike
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Martin R. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:22 AM
> > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [biofuel] Question's
> >
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > can some one tell me how long one should mix the BD for ???
> > I mix for one hour
> >
> > also when working out the titration ,I was told that the PH should be
> > between 8 and 9 is this correct  ??
> > Most of my batches are around 8.3 to 8.7 PH
> >
> > the trouble that I had with the bubbles in my BD was with the PH
> > of the mix
> > being 8.35 PH
> > and still got all the extra soap in my fuel  .
> >
> > How low can you go on the PH scale for the oil mixture  to react
> > and form BD
> > and what is the least amount of Methanol one can use , say in 100L.
> >
> > Many thanks Martin R.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > 
> <http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>ADVERTISEMENT
><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=213858.1650662.3186813.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http://www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085>bdd84.jpg
>bddc0.jpg
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Methanol recovery ???

[Martin R.]

Hi All

How do most of you , that recover there methanol or ethanol do it ???
If you use a vacuum pump, where do you get one  ,  and how do you set it up
how much can be recovered  from the glycerine ,or can one recover the Methanol
from the entire BD batch , after the BD has been formed ???

any help would be goodmany thanks Martin R.


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Free Reflux Still Plans

[R Hoard]

To those of you looking for Still Plans,

   Here is a link to a fairly good resource for making your own Booze.  On 
this page you will find a set of plans in PDF format.  They are very well 
put together.  I can not yet speak for the overall design as I have not yet 
found time to build one yet.

Here is the page:http://www.ozemail.com.au/~azamith/page5.html
Here is the Direct link to the Still.PDF(680K)
 http://www.ozemail.com.au/~azamith/still.pdf

   Hope This Helps,
Richard Hoard
_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.


-- eGroups Sponsor -~-~>
eGroups eLerts
It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/5/_/837408/_/972517370/
-_->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [biofuel] Free Reflux Still Plans

[R Hoard]

 I beg to differ.  First: Please take a look at the plans.  You will see 
a true reflux design.  Second I did not say it was a good design for high 
volume production.  It was simply just another resource for ideas.

 Richard Hoard


>From: Robert Warren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: R Hoard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Free Reflux Still Plans
>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Hello,
>This page was put up quite some time ago, and some
>people from the distillers newletter group built
>it, and had such problems with it, most of which I
>suppose are still not resolved. Temperature
>control and control of reflux action is
>non-existant.
>Next, it is incorrect to label this a reflux
>still. It is an old re-worked pot still made of
>shiny new copper fittings and an old milk can aas
>a boiler. It may  work for those of you only
>interested in a small amount of drinking alcohol,
>but don't waste your time if you need a large
>quantity to burn in your car.
>You need to look into a real reflux still
>Go to journeytoforever.org.
>Read about the Charles 803 still.
>-Robert Warren
>
>--Original Message--
>From: "R Hoard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: biofuel@egroups.com
>Sent: October 25, 2000 11:42:49 PM GMT
>Subject: [biofuel] Free Reflux Still Plans
>
>
>To those of you looking for Still Plans,
>
>Here is a link to a fairly good resource for
>making your own Booze.  On
>this page you will find a set of plans in PDF
>format.  They are very well
>put together.  I can not yet speak for the overall
>design as I have not yet
>found time to build one yet.
>
>Here is the page:
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~azamith/page5.html
>Here is the Direct link to the Still.PDF(680K)
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~azamith/still.pdf
>
>Hope This Helps,
>Richard Hoard
_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.


-- eGroups Sponsor -~-~>
eGroups eLerts
It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/5/_/837408/_/972600096/
-_->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [biofuel] surplus property

[R Hoard]

I had the same prob.  I just started deleting Directories and found that the 
link below works. Good Stuff*S*

www.financenet.gov/financenet/sales/

   Richard Hoard
_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.


-- eGroups Sponsor -~-~>
eGroups eLerts
It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/5/_/837408/_/973211016/
-_->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[biofuel] Vegetable Oil for Engine Lubrication

[R Hoard]

Hello All,

   Someone asked about synthetic oil being made from vegetable oil.  I found 
a site quoting a NYTimes Article which is posted below from:
http://sierraactivist.org/library/990614/oil.html

   Its not about synthetics at all but thought it was close enough to merit 
a post.

   Enjoy,
Richard Hoard

A Vegetable Oil for Engine Lubrication
New York Times - June 14, 1999Ê

By SABRA CHARTRAND
Efforts to make cars more environmentally sound have centered on designing
cleaner-running engines, and eliminating the need for gasoline in favor
of electricity. But presumably any car will still have an engine made up
of some moving metal parts, and that requires lubricants. Cars like trains,
lawn mowers or chain saws rely on petroleum-based motor oils. Which brings 
those concerned about the environment right back to the drawing board.
Even an electric car may produce toxic waste from motor oil.
But James Lambert and Duane Johnson have developed an alternative. They
have patented a vegetable oil lubricant. Their invention can be circulated
in internal combustion engines, or sprayed in one-time applications like
those necessary for lubricating train rails.

The inventors, from Colorado Springs, Colo., plan for their lubricant
to be "a total replacement for current petroleum and vegetable-based 
additives
to petroleum."

Years ago, car owners who changed their own oil could just dump a pan
of dirty black oil into the nearest sewer drain. Now that people understand
how toxic oil waste can be to soil, water, plants, animals and people,
used motor oil must be discarded carefully.

But other petroleum-based lubricants are still regularly dumped in the
open.

Some lubricants are also used in what the inventors identify as "total
loss applications." In those applications, oils are applied only once and
then thrown away. Trains use such oils, spewing huge amounts of petroleum
waste onto the ground.

"A train alone may consume five gallons of oil per 1,000 miles as the
oil is sprayed on the track to lubricate the wheels," the inventors write
in their patent. "This amounts to a total of 300,000 gallons annually being
discarded along railings within the U.S. alone."

Since the oils used in cars and on train rails are petroleum based,
they are not biodegradable. In addition, chemicals are usually added to
improve the consistency and performance of the oil. Of course, these oils
are distilled from crude petroleum, a nonrenewable natural resource.

Lambert and Johnson hope to eliminate concerns over motor oils altogether.
Their patent covers a vegetable oil lubricant they say is biodegradable
as well as more efficient at lubrication and heat transfer than 
petroleum-based
oils. Their lubricant is made up of three elements: a base oil, an oil
made up of hydroxy fatty acids and an oil made up of vegetable or animal 
waxes.

The patent stipulates that the base oil come from unrefined vegetable
oils like soybean, canola, rapeseed, crambe, safflower, or sunflower. The
inventors prefer to get their hydroxy fatty acids from castor, and their
waxes from jojoba, meadowfoam or lanolin. Natural anti-oxidants are also
present in the lubricant, and the inventors say that synthetic anti-oxidants
may also be added.

The patent, which belongs to the Agro Management Groupof Colorado
Springs, is 5,888,947.
_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] IT

[R Hoard]

Hotmail is not like that, but it only has 2Megs of space.  There is a free 
mail service run by www.subdimension.com and they give you 10Megs and you 
can use a POP3 Email Client if you like.  There is also www.netaddress.com 
which gives 5Megs and you can pay for other services like POP3 or Forwarding 
for a Nominal Fee.

   I hope this helps
   Richard Hoard



>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [biofuel] IT
>Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:16:34 +0900
>
> > >
> > > Jerry D.- better?
> > >
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > Ed B.
> > >
> > Much better, Steve's and everyone elses too.
> >Biofuel only uses 1/3 the space as before.
> >   Thanks a Lot,
> >  jerry dycus
>
>Hi Jerry
>
>Doesn't last though, I make that request regularly - SNIP, guys! I
>was just getting round to it when you did it instead, thanks!
>Perennial problem on all the lists. One list I know only allows 28
>lines of copy from previous mailings, which I guess is one way of
>doing it, but more than 28 lines can often be relevant, don't like
>hard and fast rules like that.
>
>By the way, how can you use an emailer that'll only accept 15kb??
>Free, okay, but it sounds like it's worth about what you pay for it.
>Is Hotmail also like that?
>
>Keith Addison
>Journey to Forever
>Handmade Projects
>Tokyo
>http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>
>

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Re: free e-mail space

[R Hoard]

just to set the record straight.  The Forwarding I speaking of was Auto 
Forwarding to another account so you can always have the same address but 
change you ISP anytime you like and nobody would be the wiser.  As opposed 
to forwarding individual Emails which is of course free.

   Richard Hoard


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Re: free e-mail space
>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 19:54:16 -
>
>Yahoo, which now owns our list, and for which we all had to create a
>new username and profile to access this list, has free e-mail. I
>already had another accout before I re-registered when we switched
>over. I think it's a 10Mb mailbox, but maybe it's 5. definately more
>than 2Mb. Anyway, it's easy as pie to set up, just go to
>mail.yahoo.com after you've signed into your yahoo grops account. It
>should walk you through the steps from there, no new passwords or
>usernames needed. Of course, you'll be that much more a patron of the
>yahoo mega-organizm which I know rubs a lot of us the wrong way. You
>should be able to filter and forward without any added fees which
>I've noticed some of these new "free" e-mail providers have started
>trying to pull.
>-andrew
>

> > There is also
>www.netaddress.com
> > which gives 5Megs and you can pay for other services like POP3 or
>Forwarding
> > for a Nominal Fee.
>
>

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

RE: [Biofuel] RE: Re: biodiesel business plan

[Armando R]

This might help

www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/36242.pdf
www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/36244.pdf

b regards

Armando A.C. Rodrigues
Av Francisco O. Magumbwe, 149
C.P 3279 Maputo 2
Maputo - Moambique
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Mensagem original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nome de
Evan Gady
Enviada: quarta-feira, 2 de Maro de 2005 8:43
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Assunto: [Biofuel] RE: Re: biodiesel business plan

Phillip - I have received some responses, but mainly those companies have
helped me with the factual side of biodiesel, not the business side.  I NEED
TO FIND OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO START A BIODIESEL REFINERY.  However, I
recently spoke with a woman at the CICCA that helped get me some contact
info of some local co-ops that supply it and deliver it to my university and
others in the area.

If anyone has any info on BIODIESEL START-UPS, let me know

Thanks,
Evan


___
Biofuel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

___
Biofuel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

RE: @SPAM+++++++++ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help

[Armando R]

Jan,

Could you please give references of the research papers on SVO use and
deposit formation as mentioned in your e-mail bellow?
No doubt about the conclusions but I would like to understand this issue in
more detail.

Best regards,


Armando A.C. Rodrigues
Av Francisco O. Magumbwe, 149
C.P 3279 Maputo 2
Maputo - Moambique
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Mensagem original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nome de Jan
Warnqvist
Enviada: quarta-feira, 30 de Maro de 2005 17:08
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Assunto: Re: @SPAM+ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help

Hello Luke.
I agree with you fully, but do not forget that SVO have a lower cetane
number, and they tend to form deposits in the combustion surroundings. These
deposits have a high cracking point (550-600oC) and the diesel engine is
built for fuel with a max boiling point of 350oC, so the deposits will
continue to form and grow until they cause trouble.
Best regards
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message -
From: "WM LUKE MATHISEN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:13 PM
Subject: @SPAM+ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help


Thanks for you input, I like the idea of capturing the heat and using it.

I did just run into this from "Biomass 2004 Biodiesel handling and use
guidelines" by the DOE enerty Efficiency and Renewable Energy.

"Raw or refined vegetable oil, or recycled greases that have not been
processed into biodiesel, are not biodiesel and should be avoided.  Research
shows that vegetable oil or greases used in CI engines at levels as low as
10% to 20% can cause long-term engine deposits, ring sticking, lube oil
gelling, and other maintenance problems and can reduce engine life.  These
problems are caused mostly by the greater viscosity, or thickness, of the
raw oils (around 40mm 2/s) compared to that of of the diesel fuel for which
the engines and injectors were designed (between 1.3 an d4.1 mm @/s).  To
avoid viscosity-related problems, vegetable oils and other feedstocks are
converted into biodiesel.  Through the process of converting vegetable oil
or greases to biodiesel, we reduce viscosity of the fuel to values similar
to conventional diesel fuel (biodiesel values are typically between 4 and 5
mm 2.s)."

I just paid $4000 for a genset and would like it to last the 20,000 to
50,000 hours it was designed for.  Are there any studies out there that
contradict the DOEs studies?
  - Original Message -
  From: Gene Chaffin
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: 03/29/2005 10:45 PM
  Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Set up help


  Jeremy:  I started with an 8KW china diesel which runs at 2000rpm and
  consumed .8 gallons per hour.  I now do not consider these china diesels
  capable of 24/7 operation, eventhough I did get 6,200 hours out of one.  I
  am now using a Detroit 2-71 12 KW genset which consumes 1.1 gallons per
hour
  of wvo.  I have only been using the Detroit genset for two weeks now but I
  do like the fact that it revolves at a slow 1200 rpm and does not have a
  fuel injection pump like most diesel engines.  I don't just produce
  electricity I also use the waste heat from the cooling system as well as
the
  waste heat from the exhaust.  The waste heat is used to heat up the vege
oil
  and warm the water on my fish farm so the little rascals don't go into
  hybernation.  If you make use of all of the parasitic heat available from
  your genset you will have no problem running straight veg oil, I don't
care
  if you live in Alaska.  It freezes where I am and I still had to install a
  swamp cooler to keep the generator room comfortable.  Make use of the
water
  jacket heat and exhaust heat to provide your domestic hot water and heat
  your house.  I have not had any fuel system maladies.  Most of the
problems
  I was experiencing with the China diesels was with the valve train...they
  needed valve jobs every 2000 hours.  My learning curve is rather long at
  this point so don't hesitate to pick my brain as you progress.  I am now
in
  the process of installing a 20 KW Northern Lights genset which has a
similar
  engine to your Isuzu.  It has the Bosh/Kiki fuel injection pump.  I do not
  expect to have any problems with that conversion to wvo.  Good luck. Gene
  Chaffin  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Behalf Of Jeremy
  Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 7:52 AM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Set up help


  Luke and Gene,

  Running straight WVO through your genset is great if you life in sunny
  california,  but I would not rely on that in Missoula.  WVO in Missoula
  would require a hefty investment in time and materials to create an
  environment equal to that of california in a shed.  Also, it is very
  

RE: [Biofuel] WVO - Resturant Example

[Armando R]

This report might help.


http://www.eere.energy.gov/biomass/pdfs/36242.pdf


Armando A.C. Rodrigues
Av Francisco O. Magumbwe, 149
C.P 3249 Maputo 2
Maputo - Mocambique
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Mensagem original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nome de
Phillip Wolfe
Enviada: sabado, 15 de Janeiro de 2005 6:50
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Assunto: [Biofuel] WVO - Resturant Example

I just realized my young adult daughter is manager of
a resturant while attending college. I asked her how
much Waste Vegatable Oil her restuarant produces. She
looked at me quizically but me the following:

Restuarant Balance Sheet (Cash Flow)
Monthly Average Gross Revenue: $130,000
Monthly Average Expenses:
(Utilities, Salary, Food,etc): $090,000

Waste Vegetable Oil (tallow) Production:
150 lbs per month X 12 Months = 1,800 lbs per year
the resturant produces aobut 150 pounds of WVO per
month.

The resturant pays Tallow Render Co. $80.00 per month
to take Waste Vegetable Oil from Restuarant.

Approach:
Conduct cost benefit analysis and determine the
benefits of taking the WVO and converting to
biodiesel.  My approach will be as follows:

1. Check the JTF webste for calculation methodology
2. Check the JFT webiste for price to convert 1 lbs of
WVO into biodiesel.
3. Compare cost to produce one lb of biodiesel versus
what the Tallow Co. does with the WVO.
4. Since the owner of the resturant is accustomed to
paying for the removal of the waste vegatable oil, I
need to be prepared that Tallow Co. will become cranky
with my intervention.
5. Determine if I can afford to take over collection
of the Waste Vegatable Oil waste stream and produce a
stream of biodiesel to support my concept of the
so-called "clean fuel gas station/C-Store concept" in
my neighborhood.
6. Determine if there are adequate numbers of diesel
vehicles in my area in need of biodiesel.
7. Determine if there is technical expertise in my
area to support such an effort. (Yes!, I am in San
Francisco/Oakland, California area in San Leandro).

Options:
1.Do all this on paper first before committing to
physical asset in order to minimize risk and not want
big vat of biodiesel in my back yard without
customers.

2. Dive into this head first and get my butt kicked
with the usual business challenges.

3. Call World Energy and just get a dang supply of
B100 from a local train spurr, mix with regular diesel
to final B20 concotion and sell at my "clean fuel
biodiesel station"  instead of pursuing refining of
WVO.

Please critique - no holds barred.

Phillip Wolfe










__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
___
Biofuel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

___
Biofuel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

RE: [Biofuel] Biofuel as a rural community development project inMozambique

[Armando R]

Alexis,

With the current oil prices I am sure many things can be done in rural
communities in Mozambique in the area of biofuels.
I would leave fuel ethanol for the sugar cane factories to produce. It can
be mixed up to 10% in gasoline as the Malawians are doing, apparently.

The rural poor buy kerosene (and sometimes gasoil) for illumination at very
high prices, above USD1000,00 per cubic metre in many remote areas, were
vegetable oil (coconut oil for instance) could be used. This would be a very
small-scale project, but the local alternative price of the raw material
should be investigated. I have done some calculations on coconut oil and
found out that the raw material (copra) is the most important single cost in
the production of oil.
The vegetable oil could also be used in diesel engines running the
small-scale mills scattered around the rural communities.

Best regards,


Armando A.C. Rodrigues
Av Francisco O. Magumbwe, 149
C.P 3279 Maputo 2
Maputo - Moçambique
Tel. Móvel: +258 82 3016040
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Mensagem original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nome de Alexis Rawlinson
Enviada: segunda-feira, 27 de Junho de 2005 20:43
Para: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Assunto: [Biofuel] Biofuel as a rural community development project
inMozambique

I am toying with the idea of trying to set up a pilot rural community
development project involving biofuel (bioethanol or biodiesel or SVO,
whichever is most appropriate) in Mozambique. I am hoping that you can give
me your opinion and advice on the technical feasibility, commercial
viability and ultimately, long-term sustainability, in a poor isolated
African rural setting, of small-scale, community-based, locally-run biofuel
production. If anyone has had experience of a similar project, I would be
extremely interested to have information about that.

Am I right in thinking that the technical feasibility is beyond question?
Bear in mind that we are talking about very isolated and poor communities
where everything has to be low-tech and low-maintenance. On the basis of
this criterion, biodiesel appears to be the most appropriate fuel as it can
be used in diesel vehicles/machines/generators (even very old and rickety
ones?) with no engine modifications. We can discount the issue of having to
change filters initially because of accumulated petrodiesel deposits falling
off (we could include the cost of new filters in start-up subsidies). We
also don't need to worry about problems with cold starts, since Mozambique
is a tropical country.

I am more concerned about the question of commercial viability. The project
will only be replicable on a larger scale and sustainable in the long term
if, after initial start-up costs, every link in the value chain has an
incentive to participate and it is profitable for all concerned (i.e. the
anticipated gains should outweigh the expected costs, including the
opportunity cost of doing something else).

a) Inputs: Local farmers will have an incentive to supply the biofuel
production facility with feedstock only if prices paid and quantities
required by the production facility are stable and remunerative compared to
undertaking other activities, such as growing other crops for other
purposes.

b) Production: Local entrepreneurs will have an incentive to make
investments in biofuel production facilities and operate and maintain those
facilities only if they can sell their fuel at a remunerative price, i.e. if
they can compete against fossil fuels (whether locally, nationally,
regionally or globally, depending on the scale of production).

c) Demand: We know that the world market for biofuels is growing rapidly and
that the policy environment is becoming extremely favourable. However,
supposing, as is most likely to be the case, that local biofuel is most
competitive on the local market (and least competitive on the global market,
where it has to compete with industrial-scale production), there must be a
critical mass of buyers on that market, i.e. local communities must have the
desire / ability to invest in machines, vehicles or generators, and the
ability to pay for biofuel on a regular basis to run those machines.

I guess the root question is the following: is the current situation in
rural southern Africa - no biofuel production - a market failure that could
be resolved by kickstarting a virtuous cycle in the sector with start-up
outreach and support activities and subsidies, or is it simply not an
economically viable sector except with permanent subsidy and support?

It seems to me that, to answer this question, there are three crucial cost
assessments which need to be made:

a) Start-up costs: the required investments by farmers, by local biofuel
entrepreneurs, by future biofuel consumers, and to what extent can/should
"outreach and support activities" subsidize these fixed costs?

b) Price and availability of feedstock: How will local feedstock production
compare to growing other crops o

Re: [Biofuel] You're not supposed to know this

[Stephen R Walmsley]

Hi Mindock,

Can/would you give me some links in English, if possible. I would like to do
some more reading on this subject.  Thanks.

newt

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Mindock
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 5:17 AM
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: [Biofuel] You're not supposed to know this

 

So far, three cheap anticancer approaches have recently popped up: the one
below, hot red peppers

(capsaicin), and the chemical called DCA. There are more remedies that
people have used, like a glass of

aloe vera juice a day. Oh, and the herb graviola.D. Mindock

===

 

According to an Italian scientist 'cancer is a fungus', that EASILY can
be cured with something VERY cheap - sodium bicarbonate ( at 50 cent per
kg). Two of my MD friends who have been trying this approach speak very
positively about it. Prostate cancer would take 2 weeks to cure. Colon
cancer should be treated at home with enemas, etc.

His Italian book 'Cancro e un Fungo' will be published in Dutch in a few
weeks time. 
May I presume that a US edition is well on its way? 

This man is 'Nobel prize' material.

www.curenaturalicancro.org < 
http://www.curenaturalicancro.org/> 

Dirk Chardet

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[biofuel] Re: truck question

[Anthony R Clark]

I have found silicone sealant (black) to be particularly effective as exhaust 
sealant, used on a new or used gasket and left to set at lightly tightened 
pressures, then tightened a further 1/2 turn the next day, it can't be beat.  I 
have never had one of these leak.
Tony from West Oz.

  Message: 8
 Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:17:18 -0700 (PDT)
 From: bob di falco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Subject: Re: truck question


  Martin,

  i clicked your below url, read index
  for furnace stuff i would like to know
  if furnace cement would work on sealing
  leak at gasket and connector from exhaust
  pipe, both ends, i.e., gasket leaks
  where mani comes off the engine and or
  where it ends into a one pipe
  my reasoning is that here gaskets
  blow all the time, whereas if furnace
  cement would hold then no need to
  replace gaskets, etc

  bob di.
  --- Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  > It can be done, it's a matter of how much work
  > (and/or money) you have.
  > 
  > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  > > Any chance of putting the Duramax in 3/4 ton
  > Avalanche in the 
  > > future? Also, have any test been done with
  > Biodiesel on the 
  > > Duramax?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > =
  > -Martin Klingensmith
  > http://archive.nnytech.net/
  > http://devzero.ath.cx/
  > http://www.nnytech.net/
  > 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/

Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 962

[Anthony R Clark]

Bob,
TheSealant is similar to Dow Corning Silicone sealants.  I open the joint, 
smear a little on each face of the old gasket and screw up hand tight.  This 
sealant has an acetic acid cure.  The following morning I tighten the joint 
securing nuts a further half turn, to compress the cured sealant further.  
The West Oz, is Western Australia you know QANTAS, Kangaroos, Koalas, Frilled 
neck lizards, etc etc.
I am President od a small Renewable Fuels Association here.
all the best,
Tony from West Oz.


Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:58:32 -0700 (PDT)
   From: bob di falco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Re: truck question


Tony,

many thanks

your "west oz" what does this mean?

as to , below, 'black silicone sealer'
is that make-a-gasket, if not can i get
in parts store or home depot, if not where?

since you put that on gaskets, which is 
a tad different than sealing from the
outside without messing with the gasket,
but is on exhaust which does not have
a lot of outward pressure, do you guess
would hold without being blown away?
if would be blown, then would you guess
wrapping in fiberglass would hold it??
my first concern with make-a-gasket is
that heat off manifold is hot-hot-hot and
thus would makeagasket melt and or ignite?
just give me you guess, please

again, many thanks

bob di.
--- Anthony R Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have found silicone sealant (black) to be
> particularly effective as exhaust sealant, used on a
> new or used gasket and left to set at lightly
> tightened pressures, then tightened a further 1/2
> turn the next day, it can't be beat.  I have never
> had one of these leak.
> Tony from West Oz.
> 
>   Message: 8
>  Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:17:18 -0700 (PDT)
>  From: bob di falco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Subject: Re: truck question
> 
> 
>   Martin,
> 
>   i clicked your below url, read index
>   for furnace stuff i would like to know
>   if furnace cement would work on sealing
>   leak at gasket and connector from exhaust
>   pipe, both ends, i.e., gasket leaks
>   where mani comes off the engine and or
>   where it ends into a one pipe
>   my reasoning is that here gaskets
>   blow all the time, whereas if furnace
>   cement would hold then no need to
>   replace gaskets, etc
> 
>   bob di. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/

Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] simple SVO burner design...might work for Glycerin

[r . p . kurz]

dana, i would appreciate a copy of your plans.
   regards, roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>  Why don't you just put all these up on the
> > biofuels files 
> > >section on yahoo?
> > >
> > >--
> > >Harmon Seaver
> > >CyberShamanix
> > >http://www.cybershamanix.com
> 
> Excellent idea Harmon!
> 
> 
> > Yes, that's the place for it. The files section
> > isn't open for 
> > members' uploads, but I'll do it, if someone asks me
> > nicely. :-)
> > 
> > Keith Addison
> > Journey to Forever
> > Handmade Projects
> > Tokyo
> > http://journeytoforever.org/
> > 
> > List owner
> 
> Yes Keith,
> Please do that and post directions how folks can
> access them there.
> 
> I have been overwhelmed with requests for the designs
> as well as suggestions how they might be improved.
> 
> I am sending them to you along with text in two
> separate emails.
> 
> Thank you,
> Dana
> --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Dana Linscott wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Since I have gotten my scanner running I also
> > have a
> > > > rough design of the SVO/waste glycerin burner
> > assembly
> > > > that I mentioned a month or so ago. I had
> > requests for
> > > > it then but have lost the addresses to send it
> > to.
> > > >
> > > > Please contact me directly if you want a copy.
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Unlimited PC-PC calling at Crystal Voice! - Only $1/Mo.
Download your free 30 day trial. Click here.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gb1xVB/GxbDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] WVO processor design parameters--Questions/input?

[r . p . kurz]

dear paul, your mixing tube packed witn ball bearings
and two pump idea sounds great. could you please supply
some more detail info (sketch,dimensions)?
  regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dana Linscott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Can anyone tell me what the pH of BD is prior to
> > washing and what the lowest temperature at which the
> > reaction will take place is?
> 
> Dana pH of BD prior to washing can be 9 or 10 or even higher if an excess of
> NaOH is used.
> Clean lightly used tallow-free wvo can be processed at 20 deg C, the
> reaction just takes a bit longer.
> Unfortunately WVO in Aust contains beef tallow leached from the part-cooked
> frozen chips used by fish&chip shops. This mixture will not process cold (at
> least the tallow portion won't).
> The use of excess NaOH mentioned above, in conjunction with 250ml of
> Methanol per litre and temp of 55 deg C processes the oil and tallow giving
> a uniform BD which shows no sign of tallow/ tallow ester dropout on standing
> or freezing. This is usually a big problem with oil containing tallow.
>  The WVO deacidificaton/filtration unit which you are developing sounds just
> the thing for problem WVO.
> Would it also be suitable for waste animal fat ( a favourite chip cooker in
> Oz fish & chip shops)?
> 
> > Is anyone using a plastic reaction vessel?
> 
> Yes and sometimes. For 1L test batches I use the "Patented Dr.Pepper Method
> by Tilly". PET bottles withstand the reaction, heat, initial presurisation
> and final depresurisation. Some of the larger batches I have made involved
> mixing/settling  the reactants in 25L  plastic buckets and polythene(?)
> drums. Neither has caused problems.
> Some plastics are more resiliant than others, the worst seem to be plastic
> appliance cases and general consumer plastic items.
> 
> For your BD production add on vessel you may be interested in utilising an
> idea myself and others have tried.
> Mechanically mixing the NaOH into the methanol is a dangerous and time
> consuming process.
> A much simpler method is to substitute a concentrated aqueous solution of
> NaOH for the solid NaOH.
> The small ammount of water in the solution appears to make no difference to
> the reaction. Perhaps it is chemicaly bound. Mixing is instantaneous, easy
> and safe. The method lends itself to automation if an alkali resintant pump
> can be used. Possibly a peristaltic pump would be suitable.  More details
> supplied if interested.
> 
> One scenario I have considered to get around the EPA/Local Council
> lisencing restictions on transporting WVO was to part process the WVO at
> pick up.  Two engine oil pumps would be coupled to an electric motor, one
> running at 1/5 the speed of the other. The faster pump would draw the WVO
> from its container, circulate it through a coil of pipe heated by propane.
> The slower pump would be for the methoxide (could be corosion and seal
> problems here). Both pumps would deliver into one end of a mixing chamber
> consisting of a length of pipe packed with ball bearings. The chamber is
> unpressurised and discharges by overflow, ie in at the bottom and out at the
> top. The mixture is then fed into  lidded bins. Now I am no longer
> transporting waste but fuel with a much higher flashpoint than the diesel
> that used to be carried in the fuel tank of the vehicle.
> Settling, decanting, washing and filtering  is all that remains to be done.
>  Regards, Paul Gobert.
> 
> www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel, Static Mixer Tube.

[r . p . kurz]

paul, 
 a form of vacuum distillation might recover the
methanol for you.
regards, roger
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > dear paul, your mixing tube packed witn ball bearings
> > and two pump idea sounds great. could you please supply
> > some more detail info (sketch,dimensions)?
> >   regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> Greetings Rodger,
> At the moment it is just an idea. I have gone so far as to purchase two
> Toyota Landcruiser oil pumps.
> $17 Aus each seemed pretty good given the capabilities of these pumps. Hand
> cranked drum pumps are selling for many times that.( Hand crank could be
> substituted for electric motor in my origional idea).
> The oil pumps and static mixer tubes are both ideas suggested by others, I
> can only take credit for the idea of using them together. So not much in the
> way of further details available at this stage.
> 
> The pumps and mixing tube will be assembled once a processing regime is
> established.
> At present I am working on using unreacted WVO oil to extract the excess
> methanol from the glycerine layer.
> Producing a stable, quality BD from the tallow laden WVO available in
> Australia requires an excess of methanol and NaOH. 20ml conc aqueous NaOH
> soln and 250ml per litre methanol work well but the volume of yield drops to
> about 85% of oil volume. SG and viscosity  are low, low temp stability and
> viscosity good. This is however an expensive way to make BD. Gelling of the
> unwashed BD is also a problem, I may be able to reduce NaOH level. Initial
> tests show that the methanol can be recovered in this way reducing the cost.
> Choice of a two stage or continuous recovery process will govern my choice
> of pump speed ratios and reaction vessels etc.
> 
> Regards,
> Paul Gobert.
> 
> www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517
> 
> 
> Results of this experimentation will determine
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Re: WVO processor catalyst module--Methanol recovery

[Anthony R Clark]

Hello paul,
I have read your postings on the biofuel newsgroup.
Where in Oz are you?
I'm in WA (OZ, not USA).  I run my Mazda Capella '90 diesel on WVO
(canola/cottonseed oils), with biodiesel startup/shutdown.
Although I do not make BD, I am familiar with the chemistry of the process.
A couple of points I would like to make are:
It is not desirable to use vacuum distillation to recover methanol.
This would then require chilled recovery vessel.  It works fine at
atmospheric pressure.
Methanol recovery should be done from the glycerol by-product (after
separation), methanol is not soluble in BD, but is soluble in the glycerol,
therefore is removed with the glycerol and can be removed from the glycerol
by distillation.  You cannot get 100% methanol recovery, a significant
amount is used in the reaction, creating BD.
If you have vacuum distillation facilities, use them to refine the
glycerol, it is worth big bucks in reasonable quantity and purity.

Please feel free to continue this discussion, e-mail me direct, or phone me.
Tony Clark
President,
WA Renewable Fuels Association inc.
0428 920 881


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Glycerol uses - Cleaning paintbrushes

[Anthony R Clark]

I have another use for the by-product from biodiesel production.  -  Cleaning 
paint brushes which have been used with oil based paints.
I have tried this twice and found it to be superior to cleaning the brush in 
turps, and have not had either brush harden from residual paint.

1.With the oily brush, dilute the paint in the brush (biodiesel or turps) 
until it is runny when the brush is pushed onto a firm surface. I used about 
50ml with a 2" brush.  
2.Work the brush to ensure that the bristles are fully moisened.
3.Remove from dilution liquid.
4.Work brush in a small container with about 20 ml of glycerin, more for 
bigger brush / container (you will see the paint coming out).
5.Rinse brush under water until all milkiness is removed.  
6.If brush still shows signs of paint, repeat glycerin stage with fresh 
glycerin.
7.Check that brush doesn't smell of paint and store brush as usual.

I disposed of the paint / biodiesel / glycerin / wash water in the compost.

Tony


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] No washing, Solid Catalyst, etc

[r . p . kurz]

Keith, are there any more details on this process? by the
way you do a great job with this group.
   regards,roger kurz
> "The resulting ester, which contained considerable amounts of 
> potassium soaps, was purified by passing the ester through a column 
> filled with strongly acid, macroreticular ion exchange resin under 
> waterfree conditions. This purification step removed most of the 
> soaps as well as other impurities and led to very pure fatty acid 
> methyl esters. This procedure is well suitable for small scale 
> production plants."
> 
> -- From "Production and Fuel Properties of Fatty Acid Methyl Esters 
> from Used Frying Oil", M. Mittelbach, B. Pokits, A. Silberholz.
> 
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
FREE COLLEGE MONEY
CLICK HERE to search
600,000 scholarships!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel

[r . p . kurz]

copper or stainless steel pot scrubbers work very well.
 (sans soap of course) expand them alittle bit,don't
pack them tightly. section of them spaced a couple of 
inches apart depending on the height of you column.
 regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "flashyrider" <
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 13:38
> Subject: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
> 
> 
> >
> > 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best
> > packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with
> > a  1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more
> > efficient? How about steel wool?
> >
> 
> Steel wool would rust away real fast, the best way I have read about (a few
> years ago), is fill the reflux colunm with copper wool (check the kitchen or
> cleaner section of the local Safeway for copper scrub pads).
> 
> Greg H.
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Re: Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of travel

[r . p . kurz]

u.s. automakers make large powerful cars because 
americans love them. its the same reason hollywood makes 
stupid situation comedy shows-they sell! as soon as the
gass crisis was over americans dumped their pintos,vegas
ect. and bought suv's and 4wheel drive pickups. i know
iworked for Dana corp. in late 1984 -84 we were shipping 
700+ caddilac frames per 8 hour shift.IMHO
  regards,roger kurz
  
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > From what I've seen the trade is between power
> > and efficiency.  I think car makers could scale
> > back power and easily increase fuel efficiency
> > but americans are too self absorbed to go for it.
> >  The bottom line is that americans don't buy
> > efficiency, they buy power.
> Everyone needs to determine for themselves where to draw the line 
> between power and economy. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but you seem 
> to have used the words efficiency and economy interchangably. A more 
> efficient engine produces more power. I've increased the efficiency 
> as much as I can, and currently have acceptable power. The only way I 
> can get more economy is to either reduce power or further increase 
> efficiency.
> 
>   Unless the
> > government makes all automakers do it none will.
> If the government sticks their fingers into it, they disrupt supply 
> and demand. If people want more fuel mileage, the manufacturers will 
> provide it. If consumers want more power, that is what the 
> manufacturers will build.
> 
> >The problem with gas engines and having alot
> > of power is that it dosen't take much power to
> > cruise down the highway at 60 or so MPH.  The
> > engine has to be held back and that wastes the
> > energy.   Diesels are much better since there is
> > no throttle plate to restrict the flow.
> I agree that Diesels are more efficient, but there are none currently 
> available that produce satisfactory horsepower. Perhaps a blend of 
> 25% Ethanol in the fuel?
> My perspective is on US light trucks. I don't own a car. I have no 
> use for one.
> 
> 
> > > > As of 2001 - using only existing technologies
> > > and without harming 
> > > > safety or performance - the fuel economy of
> > > U.S. cars could be 
> > > raised 
> > > > by 17% to 36% and by 27% to 47% for light
> > > trucks.
> This is the line I was concerned with.
> 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Is this info being kept secret? I don't own a
> > > car, but I would LOVE 
> > > to be able to increase my light truck fuel
> > > economy by 27 to 47% 
> > > without a decrease in performance or safety.
> 
> And my original reply.
> 
> Motie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
FREE COLLEGE MONEY
CLICK HERE to search
600,000 scholarships!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Steam powered bike

[r . p . kurz]

having a source of high temperature and high pressure
steam close to one's body would not be safe. steam 
engines also pale when compared to diesel efficiency.
IMHO. 
   best regards, roger kurz
> A local guy  genius inventor type made up a steam powered bike a number of
> years ago. I wonder how it would run on SVO, or biodiesel in the burner? I
> am not sure what he used for fuel.
> 
>  Is it possible to marry SVO or biodiesel to a small and efficient steam
> engine? Is that more desirable than using a small diesel? (Quieter,
> certainly!)
> 
> How would it be as about compared to a human/electric bike? ("ebike") Or
> should the ebike be charged by the small diesel genset?
> Thoughts, anyone?
> 
> Edward Beggs
> www.biofuels.ca
> 
> 
> 
> > From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:33:32 -0600
> > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of
> > travel
> > 
> >> I remember reading somewhere that a person on a bicycle on level ground
> >> with no wind pedaling @15 MPH gets the equivalent of something like
> >> three thousand "miles per gallon"
> > 
> > Per gallon of what?
> > ÷÷
> > "It takes less energy to bicycle one mile than it takes to walk a mile. In
> > fact, a bicycle can be up to 5
> > times more efficient than walking. If we compare the amount of calories 
> > burned
> > in bicycling to the number of
> > calories an automobile burns, the difference is astounding. One hundred
> > calories can power a cyclist for three
> > miles, but it would only power a car 280 feet (85 meters)!"
> > (with a .gif image showing)
> > "A comparison of the energy cost of various forms of transportation
> > shows that the bicycle is most energy-efficient." (kcal/km per person)
> > (copied from: http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/humanpower1.html)
> > 
> > "A bicycle is also the world's most energy efficient mode of travel, using
> > just 35 calories per passenger mile
> > versus 1860 for an average automobile with one occupant."
> > (copied from: 
> > http://www.bicyclinglife.com/NewsAndViews/5_Different_Reasons.htm)
> > 
> > 1 Btu = 252 calories = 0.252 kcal = .293 watts = 0.000295 kWh = .000393 HPh 
> > =
> > 1.055 kJ 
> > "Conversion Calculator for Units of ENERGY"
> > http://www.ex.ac.uk/cimt/dictunit/ccenrgy.htm
> > 
> > 
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Steam powered bike

[r . p . kurz]

as an avid bike rider , i feel that the best way to 
power a bike is by burning human fat. no filtering,
no methanol recycling,no settling of glycerin and no
waste water disposal. biofuel should (IMHO) be used
to save our environment while at the same time 
maintaining and improving the lifestyle we have come to 
enjoy. i have taken many a fall on my mountain bike and
would hate to have the weight of steam engine and steam
at 300F and 150psi. on top of me. but to each his own.
   kindest regards , roger kurz
> What about steam radiators? Safety is determined by proper design, I mean.
> 
> A tank of gasoline  relatively close to one's body, at 60 or more mph, in a
> sheet metal tank is not all that safe either...so I'm not sure that that
> would be insurmountable even though I certainly share your concern.
> 
> I thought the whole idea a little silly and unsafe too, at first, but then I
> considered all the logical and intelligent things this fellow had done, and
> his skill, and thought...well...mebbeif it's done right, like anything
> else.
> 
> 
> Edward Beggs
> www.biofuels.ca
> 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:40:54 +
> > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Steam powered bike
> > 
> > having a source of high temperature and high pressure
> > steam close to one's body would not be safe. steam
> > engines also pale when compared to diesel efficiency.
> > IMHO. 
> > best regards, roger kurz
> >> A local guy  genius inventor type made up a steam powered bike a number of
> >> years ago. I wonder how it would run on SVO, or biodiesel in the burner? I
> >> am not sure what he used for fuel.
> >> 
> >> Is it possible to marry SVO or biodiesel to a small and efficient steam
> >> engine? Is that more desirable than using a small diesel? (Quieter,
> >> certainly!)
> >> 
> >> How would it be as about compared to a human/electric bike? ("ebike") Or
> >> should the ebike be charged by the small diesel genset?
> >> Thoughts, anyone?
> >> 
> >> Edward Beggs
> >> www.biofuels.ca
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:33:32 -0600
> >>> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of
> >>> travel
> >>> 
>  I remember reading somewhere that a person on a bicycle on level ground
>  with no wind pedaling @15 MPH gets the equivalent of something like
>  three thousand "miles per gallon"
> >>> 
> >>> Per gallon of what?
> >>> ÷÷
> >>> "It takes less energy to bicycle one mile than it takes to walk a mile. In
> >>> fact, a bicycle can be up to 5
> >>> times more efficient than walking. If we compare the amount of calories
> >>> burned
> >>> in bicycling to the number of
> >>> calories an automobile burns, the difference is astounding. One hundred
> >>> calories can power a cyclist for three
> >>> miles, but it would only power a car 280 feet (85 meters)!"
> >>> (with a .gif image showing)
> >>> "A comparison of the energy cost of various forms of transportation
> >>> shows that the bicycle is most energy-efficient." (kcal/km per person)
> >>> (copied from: http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/humanpower1.html)
> >>> 
> >>> "A bicycle is also the world's most energy efficient mode of travel, using
> >>> just 35 calories per passenger mile
> >>> versus 1860 for an average automobile with one occupant."
> >>> (copied from: 
> >>> http://www.bicyclinglife.com/NewsAndViews/5_Different_Reasons.htm)
> >>> 
> >>> 1 Btu = 252 calories = 0.252 kcal = .293 watts = 0.000295 kWh = .000393 
> >>> HPh
> >>> =
> >>> 1.055 kJ 
> >>> "Conversion Calculator for Units of ENERGY"
> >>> http://www.ex.ac.uk/cimt/dictunit/ccenrgy.htm
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >>> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>> 
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> >> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> 
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EM

Re: [biofuel] wvo burner v2.0

[r . p . kurz]

i would much appreciate a english version of this.
i thank you in advance for taking the time to translate
this.
  best regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> here is my second try of wvo burner, i have to change some thinks 
> like the feed of wvo is a rubber pipe on a place where it gets too 
> hot so this rubber melts, better versions will came.
> 
> I intend to use this to dry wvo to make biodiesel
> 
> i've made a document with photos, schema and explanations, at the 
> moment only in spanish, if someone is interested i can traslate it.
> 
> large version, big photos (1Mb):
> http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.htm
> 
> short version, smaller photos (128k)
> http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.doc
> 
> please, comments are welcome, please please please.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Manolo Rol‡n
> Valencia, Spain
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

RE: [biofuel] wvo burner v2.0

[r . p . kurz]

could not find the translation when i clicked your site?
   regrds, roger
> i made the traslation, you can find it here:
> http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/wvoburner.doc
> 
> to see the biger photos you still need to go to the html spanish version:
> http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.htm
> 
> with my english i don't know if you will understand better the spanish
> version ;-)
> 
> cheers
> Manolo Rol‡n
> Valencia, Espa–a
> 
> 
> 
> -Mensaje original-
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Enviado el: miŽrcoles, 16 de enero de 2002 23:03
> Para: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Asunto: Re: [biofuel] wvo burner v2.0
> 
> 
> i would much appreciate a english version of this.
> i thank you in advance for taking the time to translate
> this.
>   best regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > here is my second try of wvo burner, i have to change some thinks 
> > like the feed of wvo is a rubber pipe on a place where it gets too 
> > hot so this rubber melts, better versions will came.
> > 
> > I intend to use this to dry wvo to make biodiesel
> > 
> > i've made a document with photos, schema and explanations, at the 
> > moment only in spanish, if someone is interested i can traslate it.
> > 
> > large version, big photos (1Mb):
> > http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.htm
> > 
> > short version, smaller photos (128k)
> > http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.doc
> > 
> > please, comments are welcome, please please please.
> > 
> > cheers
> > 
> > Manolo Rol‡n
> > Valencia, Spain
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] BD slightly murky at low temps (35 F)

[r . p . kurz]

excuse my ignorance but what is Dipetane and whrer can 
one get it?
   regards,roger
> You can add Dipetane at a ratio of 1:200 and it should help most biofuels.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?

[r . p . kurz]

GOD owns the sky and i'm afraid that he's not too happy
with our stewardship of it.
 kind regards roger kurz
> Andres,
> >It is anybody«s wild guess when dollars will begin
> > to obey the laws of
> > nature.
> > Andydownsouth
> 
> Sadly the very concept of currency allows the
> accumulation of "unatural" amounts of wealth. Without
> "chits" one would be unable to squirrel away more
> wealth than one had a "natural" ability to spend 
> relativly soon after it was created/gathered. It is
> also the concept of currency that allow some of the
> most "physically" unproductive human beings to
> accummulate wealth most easily. I speak from
> experience as I have been both.
> 
> I have also seen that we all have power that CAN be
> used to facilitate incredable changes...but most
> prefer to believe thay do not and so by proxy hand
> that power over to those that most often, at least in
> my opinion, deserve it the least. 
> 
> Dana
> 
> --- AndrŽs_Stepkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Manolo is right in that the sky does not end at the
> > Big River boundary. The
> > laws of nature (thermodynamics) tell us that mass
> > flows always go in the
> > direction of the more to the less. Heat moves from
> > the hotter to the colder,
> > water flows from the higher to the lower, and
> > unfortunately, pollution also
> > follows the law, but never stops at that imaginary
> > border, and rather
> > continues on to ravage my water, my beaches and my
> > trees down here, or
> > anywhere else.
> > It is anybody«s wild guess when dollars will begin
> > to obey the laws of
> > nature.
> > Andydownsouth
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Access Your PC from Anywhere
Check Email & Transfer files - Free Download
http://us.click.yahoo.com/_WCYWA/3XkDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/