Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Hi Tony, I recall reading about them in the archives. I remember them being a tad on the pricy side. I cannot get them in my location unless I become an importer. I supposeone could make them. Hmmm, yet another thing to research but much later. Tom Irwin From: tony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:15:28 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDHi,Are there additives or chemicals that can be added to biodiesels madewith oils of low iodine values to lower its melting point for use incolder climates?TonyOn 10/25/05, Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: The Biodiesel made from animal fat (beef) begins to solidify at about 14 C and completely solidifies at 10 C. Other animal fats or any mixes I have not worked with as yet. This information is in table form on the JTF site. Tom Irwin___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
x-richThe answer is No. Paul O'Brien of Biofuel Systems says about their Wintron cloud-point depressant: There are still some types of biodiesel that can't be winterised (such as tallow biodiesel and palm oil biodiesel due to the fact they are so saturated -- double bonds are needed to modify the viscosity and pour point etc.). I think that's a general principle. It says this at our Biodiesel in winter page: To make WVO biodiesel for winter, heat the oil first, then cool it to near 0 deg C (32 deg F); the saturated fats will crystallise out and sink to the bottom. Use the clear oil off the top to make winter biodiesel, keep the stuff at the bottom for summer. But even this winterized biodiesel still won't go much below -5 deg C (23 deg F) without gelling. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html Biodiesel in winter We imported Wintron from the UK to Japan without any difficulty, it wasn't expensive, it works well. Winterisers/pour-point depressants are not so easy to make. We're working with a company here in Japan on veg-oil based pour-point depressants, works very well, but not with high-melting point oils. Best Keith excerptHi Tony, I recall reading about them in the archives. I remember them being a tad on the pricy side. I cannot get them in my location unless I become an importer. I suppose one could make them. Hmmm, yet another thing to research but much later. Tom Irwin paraindentparamright,left/param boldFrom:/bold tony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] boldTo:/bold Biofuel@sustainablelists.org boldSent:/bold Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:15:28 -0300 boldSubject:/bold Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hi, Are there additives or chemicals that can be added to biodiesels made with oils of low iodine values to lower its melting point for use in colder climates? Tony On 10/25/05, Tom Irwin wrote: The Biodiesel made from animal fat (beef) begins to solidify at about 14 C and completely solidifies at 10 C. Other animal fats or any mixes I have not worked with as yet. This information is in table form on the JTF site. Tom Irwin /paraindent/excerpt /x-rich ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
My biodiesel comes from cooking oil that is about half saturated and half unsaturated: methyl palmitate, methyl oleate, methyl linoleate. It is good down to at least -3 celcius (this morning on the way to school) If it gets much colder I get in trouble so for lower temps, I start blending in fossil diesel. Keith Addison wrote: The answer is No. Paul O'Brien of Biofuel Systems says about their Wintron cloud-point depressant: There are still some types of biodiesel that can't be winterised (such as tallow biodiesel and palm oil biodiesel due to the fact they are so saturated -- double bonds are needed to modify the viscosity and pour point etc.). I think that's a general principle. It says this at our Biodiesel in winter page: To make WVO biodiesel for winter, heat the oil first, then cool it to near 0 deg C (32 deg F); the saturated fats will crystallise out and sink to the bottom. Use the clear oil off the top to make winter biodiesel, keep the stuff at the bottom for summer. But even this winterized biodiesel still won't go much below -5 deg C (23 deg F) without gelling. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html Biodiesel in winter We imported Wintron from the UK to Japan without any difficulty, it wasn't expensive, it works well. Winterisers/pour-point depressants are not so easy to make. We're working with a company here in Japan on veg-oil based pour-point depressants, works very well, but not with high-melting point oils. Best Keith Hi Tony, I recall reading about them in the archives. I remember them being a tad on the pricy side. I cannot get them in my location unless I become an importer. I suppose one could make them. Hmmm, yet another thing to research but much later. Tom Irwin *From:* tony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:15:28 -0300 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hi, Are there additives or chemicals that can be added to biodiesels made with oils of low iodine values to lower its melting point for use in colder climates? Tony On 10/25/05, Tom Irwin wrote: The Biodiesel made from animal fat (beef) begins to solidify at about 14 C and completely solidifies at 10 C. Other animal fats or any mixes I have not worked with as yet. This information is in table form on the JTF site. Tom Irwin -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
The Biodiesel made from animal fat (beef) begins to solidify at about 14 C and completely solidifies at 10 C. Other animal fats or any mixes I have not worked with as yet. This information isin table form on the JTF site. Tom Irwin From: Bernie Hunsche [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 'Biofuel@sustainablelists.org' [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:31:48 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDIs it the animel fat or the Biodiesel that starts to solidify at around10deg C? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom Irwin Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2005 8:40 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It's quite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get it for just your transport costs. If you live in a poorer area then look for wild castor beans. They're have large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well for a garden or farm soil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin _ From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Free is the best oil to use ;-) Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat? I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanks Juan _ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Hi, Are there additives or chemicals that can be added to biodiesels made with oils of low iodine values to lower its melting point for use in colder climates? Tony On 10/25/05, Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Biodiesel made from animal fat (beef) begins to solidify at about 14 C and completely solidifies at 10 C. Other animal fats or any mixes I have not worked with as yet. This information is in table form on the JTF site. Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Is it the animel fat or the Biodiesel that starts to solidify at around 10deg C? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Irwin Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2005 8:40 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It's quite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get it for just your transport costs. If you live in a poorer area then look for wild castor beans. They're have large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well for a garden or farm soil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin _ From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Free is the best oil to use ;-) Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat? I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanks Juan _ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ File: ATT89996.txt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Hello Mr. Burgos, Animal fat was a natural first choice as we produce a fair amount of beef here in Uruguay.From my reading on the JTF site, I found that it was a viable candidate and there are several papers available there for using it. It made sense from a chemical standpoint as fat is essentially all saturated hydrocarbon. With only single bonded carbons I knew that polymerization at temperature is not likely. I tried about 10 or 15 small batches and never had a single bad batch with methoxide as a cataylst. Then I shifted to ethoxide andhad a few successes and many failures. I shifted back to methoxide to check if my technique had gone bad. It hadn't.Istill got very good separation of glycerine and all washed batches passed density, wash, chemical, and motor testing. I'm currently working on waste vegetable oil which is extraordinarily variable here. Titration testing is a must do task with each new supplier and sometimes with each batch from each supplier but I get the material for free. For me this is methoxide only territory but I'm still very curious as to why I hadmostly failure butsome success with ethoxide. I probably go back to it once I'm producing enough for my home and farm needs. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:14:40 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: Did you find by your own experience that tallow is a good raw material for producing biodiesel? or there is any bibliography that you can indicate me on the subject?. Your help will be the most appreciated, thanks in advance. Cordially, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It'squite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get itfor just your transport costs. If you live in apoorer area then look for wild castor beans. They'rehave large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well fora garden or farmsoil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDFree is the best oil to use ;-)Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat?I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanksJuan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: thanks for your prompt replay and valuable information. I am having a rough time in trying to transesterify tallow using ethanol and KOH, could you be kind enough and make me any process suggestions?. Ihave tryed: a tallow with ony 2.5% of FFA; 50ºC; 1% KOH; molar fraction basis , ethanol: tallow 6:1, up to 12 hours and obtained practically zero reaction ( none visible separation of glycerol out of gluk). Weird, dont you think?. Yours truly, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Mr. Burgos, Animal fat was a natural first choice as we produce a fair amount of beef here in Uruguay.From my reading on the JTF site, I found that it was a viable candidate and there are several papers available there for using it. It made sense from a chemical standpoint as fat is essentially all saturated hydrocarbon. With only single bonded carbons I knew that polymerization at temperature is not likely. I tried about 10 or 15 small batches and never had a single bad batch with methoxide as a cataylst. Then I shifted to ethoxide andhad a few successes and many failures. I shifted back to methoxide to check if my technique had gone bad. It hadn't.Istill got very good separation of glycerine and all washed batches passed density, wash, chemical, and motor testing. I'm currently working on waste vegetable oil which is extraordinarily variable here. Titration testing is a must do task with each new supplier and sometimes with each batch from each supplier but I get the material for free. For me this is methoxide only territory but I'm still very curious as to why I hadmostly failure butsome success with ethoxide. I probably go back to it once I'm producing enough for my home and farm needs. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:14:40 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: Did you find by your own experience that tallow is a good raw material for producing biodiesel? or there is any bibliography that you can indicate me on the subject?. Your help will be the most appreciated, thanks in advance. Cordially, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It'squite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get itfor just your transport costs. If you live in apoorer area then look for wild castor beans. They'rehave large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well fora garden or farmsoil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDFree is the best oil to use ;-)Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat?I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanksJuan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: thanks for your prompt replay and valuable information. I am having a rough time in trying to transesterify tallow using ethanol and KOH, could you be kind enough and make me any process suggestions?. I have tryed: a tallow with ony 2.5% of FFA; 50ºC; 1% KOH; molar fraction basis , ethanol: tallow 6:1, up to 12 hours and obtained practically zero reaction ( none visible separation of glycerol out of gluk). Weird, dont you think?. Yours truly, Mr. F.J. Burgos Not very weird. It's the ethanol that's causing the problems more than the tallow, tallow isn't a problem. With ethanol FFA levels have to be low, less than 1 ml 0.01% NaOH solution titration, and no water content in anything. You probably will not achieve a reliable process without using some methanol at least with the ethanol (which must be absolute). I think ethanol:tallow 6:1 on a molar basis isn't nearly enough. Best wishes Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tom Irwin To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Mr. Burgos, Animal fat was a natural first choice as we produce a fair amount of beef here in Uruguay. From my reading on the JTF site, I found that it was a viable candidate and there are several papers available there for using it. It made sense from a chemical standpoint as fat is essentially all saturated hydrocarbon. With only single bonded carbons I knew that polymerization at temperature is not likely. I tried about 10 or 15 small batches and never had a single bad batch with methoxide as a cataylst. Then I shifted to ethoxide and had a few successes and many failures. I shifted back to methoxide to check if my technique had gone bad. It hadn't. I still got very good separation of glycerine and all washed batches passed density, wash, chemical, and motor testing. I'm currently working on waste vegetable oil which is extraordinarily variable here. Titration testing is a must do task with each new supplier and sometimes with each batch from each supplier but I get the material for free. For me this is methoxide only territory but I'm still very curious as to why I had mostly failure but some success with ethoxide. I probably go back to it once I'm producing enough for my home and farm needs. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:14:40 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: Did you find by your own experience that tallow is a good raw material for producing biodiesel? or there is any bibliography that you can indicate me on the subject?. Your help will be the most appreciated, thanks in advance. Cordially, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tom Irwin To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It's quite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get it for just your transport costs. If you live in a poorer area then look for wild castor beans. They're have large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well for a garden or farm soil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:javascript:kh6k0(new,[EMAIL PROTECTED])[EMAIL PROTECTED] .net] To: javascript:kh6k0(new,Biofuel@sustainablelists.org)[EMAIL PROTECTED] nablelists.org Sent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Free is the best oil to use ;-) Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat? I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanks Juan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Hello Mr. Burgos, I agree with Keith. It's the ethanol. Try a small batch with methanol at 20% of your oil volume and add 6.5 to 7 g per liter ofKOH. You shouldget separation of glycerine with only an hour or so of heating at 50 C. and 12 hours of settling. In most cases I can see the glycerine begin to separate out after an hour of settling. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:35:37 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: thanks for your prompt replay and valuable information. I am having a rough time in trying to transesterify tallow using ethanol and KOH, could you be kind enough and make me any process suggestions?. Ihave tryed: a tallow with ony 2.5% of FFA; 50ºC; 1% KOH; molar fraction basis , ethanol: tallow 6:1, up to 12 hours and obtained practically zero reaction ( none visible separation of glycerol out of gluk). Weird, dont you think?. Yours truly, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Mr. Burgos, Animal fat was a natural first choice as we produce a fair amount of beef here in Uruguay.From my reading on the JTF site, I found that it was a viable candidate and there are several papers available there for using it. It made sense from a chemical standpoint as fat is essentially all saturated hydrocarbon. With only single bonded carbons I knew that polymerization at temperature is not likely. I tried about 10 or 15 small batches and never had a single bad batch with methoxide as a cataylst. Then I shifted to ethoxide andhad a few successes and many failures. I shifted back to methoxide to check if my technique had gone bad. It hadn't.Istill got very good separation of glycerine and all washed batches passed density, wash, chemical, and motor testing. I'm currently working on waste vegetable oil which is extraordinarily variable here. Titration testing is a must do task with each new supplier and sometimes with each batch from each supplier but I get the material for free. For me this is methoxide only territory but I'm still very curious as to why I hadmostly failure butsome success with ethoxide. I probably go back to it once I'm producing enough for my home and farm needs. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:14:40 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: Did you find by your own experience that tallow is a good raw material for producing biodiesel? or there is any bibliography that you can indicate me on the subject?. Your help will be the most appreciated, thanks in advance. Cordially, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It'squite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get itfor just your transport costs. If you live in apoorer area then look for wild castor beans. They'rehave large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well fora garden or farmsoil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDFree is the best oil to use ;-)Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat?I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanksJuan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It'squite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get itfor just your transport costs. If you live in apoorer area then look for wild castor beans. They'rehave large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well fora garden or farmsoil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDFree is the best oil to use ;-)Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat?I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanksJuan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: Did you find by your own experience that tallow is a good raw material for producing biodiesel? or there is any bibliography that you can indicate me on the subject?. Your help will be the most appreciated, thanks in advance. Cordially, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It'squite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get itfor just your transport costs. If you live in apoorer area then look for wild castor beans. They'rehave large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well fora garden or farmsoil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDFree is the best oil to use ;-)Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat?I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanksJuan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat? I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanks Juan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Free is the best oil to use ;-) Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat? I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanks Juan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
