Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose:solid biofuel
Greetings, Regarding Tom Reeds woodgas camp stove and its requirement for a primary air source (battery powered), what about a mechanical windup clockwork system to drive the fan. You can visit the web site www.freeplayenergy.com to see what I mean. Have fun! Derrick Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Pan Greeting Keith Even though we spend several hours of search in Internet about gelled fuel, we are not able to find any information about the use of the cellulose , but which have been reported to be very successful. Thank you Keith bringing here real practical experience ,how to make yourself work , which is the real objective of this group. sharing knowledge , practical one on biofuel applications and social neworking based on this knoweldge. My pleasure, I do hope it helps. Ethanol production is widespread in most rural areas, whether legal or not, so it's an existing knowledge base that can be added to for local fuel production needs. I'm looking forward to doing more work on this, and really looking forward to getting into ethanol production here this summer. As well as biogas production, as we discussed previously, hoping among other things to find out how best to utilise raw by-product from biodiesel production for methane production. A pressing problem for us, as our work with burning it as a winter heating fuel wasn't successful (though we solved the heating fuel problem another way, with low-conversion 5% methanol biodiesel). Progress isn't fast, but it's steady, we'll get there I'm sure. All of us. Solid biofuel is poor rural man need , even India lack research in this field, eventhough India has the simple and solid biofuel social technology making use of cowdung , any dried leaves , solar drying , amk possible removing animal waste from big cites by self employed poor social enterprenuers, reusing the wastes solids, instead of incinerating and land fill dumping , selling this one as good poor man fuel of the low cost .But this simple social self employed best technology is excluded by the conventional technology of urbanization using gaseous biofuel is pushed nowadays. Composting was put on a firm scientific footing in the 1920s by Sir Albert Howard in India, working with Indian peasants. (He said they were his professors. Pests and weeds were also his professors.) One of his aims was to extend the use of cowdung, because its use as solid fuel didn't leave enough for fertilising the soil. He found that properly made compost with only 20% cowdung content and the rest plant material was more effective than 100% cowdung (that's definitely true), so there was enough for both needs. Very good work! Jelled biofuel with clean burning using novel products and process can be as important project as that of BioD that appear to have impact as social technology as the cow dung based solid fuel technology. I agree. It has had very good results in some areas. I think it's different from BioD, they can fill different needs, different niches. They can be complementary, especially with your idea of integrated local biofuels projects. A missing piece in this puzzle is replacing kerosene for cooking stove fuel. Biodiesel works very well in pressure stoves (roarers), but not in wick stoves, unless they're specially designed. What would be more useful would be a wick stove, or any simple stove, that burns SVO, which will always be more easily available than biodiesel in rural areas. There are some ideas and some designs, but it's not there yet, needs more work. Another missing piece is what Robert was saying about Tom Reed's woodgas camp stoves - they work very well, but only because there's a battery to drive a fan for the primary air supply. I've been part of several intensive discussions with the stoves people on how to achieve this level of efficiency and control without a power source, and it's got nowhere, so far. I sort of gave up our work with woodgas stoves for the time being, hoping to find better answers for cooking with liquid biofuels rather than biomass. I have found some answers, much more to be done still. Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves. Or ethanol gel, eh? Or a good vegoil stove design that a village blacksmith can produce. Thanking once again on behalf all the developing countries , students and teacher can do better social work with this new products and good hope to have the great green future for the needful based on the biomass fuel. Thankyou Pan, but if you thank me I think you
Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose:solid biofuel
Regarding Tom Reeds woodgas camp stove and its requirement for a primary air source (battery powered), what about a mechanical windup clockwork system to drive the fan. You can visit the web site www.freeplayenergy.com to see what I mean. Have fun! Derrick Greetings Derrick Thanks for the suggestion. Clockwork radios seem to work well, but for these stoves, clockwork got tossed around a lot in those discussions (along with just about everything else), and each time it got ruled out, I don't recall just why offhand. I have been to that site though, for that purpose. Ideal would be the heat of the stove itself, and/or convection, something integral to the stove, to power the primary air fan, but, despite some elegant ideas, nothing practical has emerged. I believe one reason for that is that so little is known about how these stoves work - inverted downdraft gasifying charcoal-producing stoves, is what they are, real catchy name, eh? Tom Reed, who surely knows more than anybody about them, once said he thought about 25% of the science of IDD woodstoves is known. Probably as more is learnt the answer to integral powering of the fan will emerge. This is the one we made: http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html It works well, some quite advanced features, quite widely copied, but it's still not satisfactory. But, use a small powered fan for the air supply and it works excellently. Thanks again. Keith Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Pan Greeting Keith snip Another missing piece is what Robert was saying about Tom Reed's woodgas camp stoves - they work very well, but only because there's a battery to drive a fan for the primary air supply. I've been part of several intensive discussions with the stoves people on how to achieve this level of efficiency and control without a power source, and it's got nowhere, so far. I sort of gave up our work with woodgas stoves for the time being, hoping to find better answers for cooking with liquid biofuels rather than biomass. I have found some answers, much more to be done still. Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves. Or ethanol gel, eh? Or a good vegoil stove design that a village blacksmith can produce. Thanking once again on behalf all the developing countries , students and teacher can do better social work with this new products and good hope to have the great green future for the needful based on the biomass fuel. Thankyou Pan, but if you thank me I think you have to thank everyone. Most of what I know about biofuels I've gained by applying what I've learnt from list members here, for which I'm MOST grateful. Best regards Keith sd Pannirselvam snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose:solid biofuel
Ideal would be the heat of the stove itself Has anyone considered a stirling powered fan? http://www.stirlingengine.com/ Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, Regarding Tom Reeds woodgas camp stove and its requirement for a primary air source (battery powered), what about a mechanical windup clockwork system to drive the fan. You can visit the web site www.freeplayenergy.com to see what I mean. Have fun! Derrick Greetings Derrick Thanks for the suggestion. Clockwork radios seem to work well, but for these stoves, clockwork got tossed around a lot in those discussions (along with just about everything else), and each time it got ruled out, I don't recall just why offhand. I have been to that site though, for that purpose. Ideal would be the heat of the stove itself, and/or convection, something integral to the stove, to power the primary air fan, but, despite some elegant ideas, nothing practical has emerged. I believe one reason for that is that so little is known about how these stoves work - inverted downdraft gasifying charcoal-producing stoves, is what they are, real catchy name, eh? Tom Reed, who surely knows more than anybody about them, once said he thought about 25% of the science of IDD woodstoves is known. Probably as more is learnt the answer to integral powering of the fan will emerge. This is the one we made: http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html It works well, some quite advanced features, quite widely copied, but it's still not satisfactory. But, use a small powered fan for the air supply and it works excellently. Thanks again. Keith Keith Addison wrote: Greetings Pan Greeting Keith Another missing piece is what Robert was saying about Tom Reed's woodgas camp stoves - they work very well, but only because there's a battery to drive a fan for the primary air supply. I've been part of several intensive discussions with the stoves people on how to achieve this level of efficiency and control without a power source, and it's got nowhere, so far. I sort of gave up our work with woodgas stoves for the time being, hoping to find better answers for cooking with liquid biofuels rather than biomass. I have found some answers, much more to be done still. Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves. Or ethanol gel, eh? Or a good vegoil stove design that a village blacksmith can produce. Thanking once again on behalf all the developing countries , students and teacher can do better social work with this new products and good hope to have the great green future for the needful based on the biomass fuel. Thankyou Pan, but if you thank me I think you have to thank everyone. Most of what I know about biofuels I've gained by applying what I've learnt from list members here, for which I'm MOST grateful. Best regards Keith sd Pannirselvam ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose:solid biofuel
Greeting Keith Even though we spend several hours of search in Internet about gelled fuel, we are not able to find any information about the use of the cellulose , but which have been reported to be very successful. Thank you Keith bringing here real practical experience ,how to make yourself work , which is the real objective of this group. sharing knowledge , practical one on biofuel applications and social neworking based on this knoweldge. Solid biofuel is poor rural man need , even India lack research in this field, eventhough India has the simple and solid biofuel social technology making use of cowdung , any dried leaves , solar drying , amk possible removing animal waste from big cites by self employed poor social enterprenuers, reusing the wastes solids, instead of incinerating and land fill dumping , selling this one as good poor man fuel of the low cost .But this simple social self employed best technology is excluded by the conventional technology of urbanization using gaseous biofuel is pushed nowadays. Jelled biofuel with clean burning using novel products and process can be as importantproject as that of BioD that appear to have impact as social technology as the cow dung based solid fuel technology. Thanking once again on behalf all the developing countries , students and teacher can do better social work with this new products and good hope to have the great green future for the needful based on the biomass fuel. sd Pannirselvam On 4/25/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Pannir Greeting Larry Dear Larry Think of using the fuel gel made using cellulose powder or wood charcoal carbon powder for making fuel from alcohol . Several important information are available from the old list archives of this group. It is not very clear whether you want use the fuel for distillation of ethanol .Still for what purpose ? Charcoal powder, that's interesting. You can also use wallpaper glue, I guess that's cellulose. This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. Here's another one, with proprietory ingredients: Ethanol Solid Fuel Gel / Fire Starter Carbopol EZ-3 Polymer á Primary thickener for alcohol systems - neutralization with a specific amine is critical á Provides good clarity and overall aesthetics á Low skinning cracking á Approximate burn time of 2.5 hours per 200 grams á Self-wetting polymer for improved handling and easier full-scale processing Formulation Percent Function Trade Name Supplier Carbopol EZ-3 - Weight Percent 0.55 - Thickener - Noveon, Inc. DI Water - Weight Percent 23.90 - Diluent Ethanol - Weight Percent 75.00 - Fuel Triisopropanolamine - Weight Percent 0.55 - Neutralizing agent - Dow Chemical 100.00 Procedure 1. Add the Carbopol EZ-3 polymer to the deionized water with no agitation. The polymer will wet out in a few minutes. 2. With moderate agitation, add the ethanol. 3. Heat the triisopropanolamine until melted and add with good agitation. The product will thicken during this step. Increased agitation will be required. Regards Keith See here for information for the use of jelled fuel alcohol: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ We have not done so far any experimental work in this field but surely wish to start soon . Some 100 000 Brazilian Real economy is mad possible to be the gain due to the operation of the one small aeroplane/ year that have been adopted to use ethanolinsecticide applications of big Brazilian soy agribusiness the gain compared to the conventional fuel. Thus big one become very big and small farmer very poor
Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose:solid biofuel
Greeting Keith Even though we spend several hours of search in Internet about gelled fuel, we are not able to find any information about the use of the cellulose , but which have been reported to be very successful. Thank you Keith bringing here real practical experience ,how to make yourself work , which is the real objective of this group. sharing knowledge , practical one on biofuel applications and social neworking based on this knoweldge. My pleasure, I do hope it helps. Ethanol production is widespread in most rural areas, whether legal or not, so it's an existing knowledge base that can be added to for local fuel production needs. I'm looking forward to doing more work on this, and really looking forward to getting into ethanol production here this summer. As well as biogas production, as we discussed previously, hoping among other things to find out how best to utilise raw by-product from biodiesel production for methane production. A pressing problem for us, as our work with burning it as a winter heating fuel wasn't successful (though we solved the heating fuel problem another way, with low-conversion 5% methanol biodiesel). Progress isn't fast, but it's steady, we'll get there I'm sure. All of us. Solid biofuel is poor rural man need , even India lack research in this field, eventhough India has the simple and solid biofuel social technology making use of cowdung , any dried leaves , solar drying , amk possible removing animal waste from big cites by self employed poor social enterprenuers, reusing the wastes solids, instead of incinerating and land fill dumping , selling this one as good poor man fuel of the low cost .But this simple social self employed best technology is excluded by the conventional technology of urbanization using gaseous biofuel is pushed nowadays. Composting was put on a firm scientific footing in the 1920s by Sir Albert Howard in India, working with Indian peasants. (He said they were his professors. Pests and weeds were also his professors.) One of his aims was to extend the use of cowdung, because its use as solid fuel didn't leave enough for fertilising the soil. He found that properly made compost with only 20% cowdung content and the rest plant material was more effective than 100% cowdung (that's definitely true), so there was enough for both needs. Very good work! Jelled biofuel with clean burning using novel products and process can be as importantproject as that of BioD that appear to have impact as social technology as the cow dung based solid fuel technology. I agree. It has had very good results in some areas. I think it's different from BioD, they can fill different needs, different niches. They can be complementary, especially with your idea of integrated local biofuels projects. A missing piece in this puzzle is replacing kerosene for cooking stove fuel. Biodiesel works very well in pressure stoves (roarers), but not in wick stoves, unless they're specially designed. What would be more useful would be a wick stove, or any simple stove, that burns SVO, which will always be more easily available than biodiesel in rural areas. There are some ideas and some designs, but it's not there yet, needs more work. Another missing piece is what Robert was saying about Tom Reed's woodgas camp stoves - they work very well, but only because there's a battery to drive a fan for the primary air supply. I've been part of several intensive discussions with the stoves people on how to achieve this level of efficiency and control without a power source, and it's got nowhere, so far. I sort of gave up our work with woodgas stoves for the time being, hoping to find better answers for cooking with liquid biofuels rather than biomass. I have found some answers, much more to be done still. Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves. Or ethanol gel, eh? Or a good vegoil stove design that a village blacksmith can produce. Thanking once again on behalf all the developing countries , students and teacher can do better social work with this new products and good hope to have the great green future for the needful based on the biomass fuel. Thankyou Pan, but if you thank me I think you have to thank everyone. Most of what I know about biofuels I've gained by applying what I've learnt from list members here, for which I'm MOST grateful. Best regards Keith sd Pannirselvam On
