Re: [Biofuel] Made in China? - Cambodia.
Hi Hakan ; I admit that I don't really know the whole story, so anyone please feel free to correct me. I have many Khmer friends, and I discuss this with them often. From what I understand there were weekly flights to Beijing for supplies and military strategists. However (CS), this was only after a decade of secret bombing by the US had smashed the country and killed countless people.. Pol Pot And Kissinger - On war criminality and impunity http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/hermansept97.htm and The death of Pol Pot http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/apr1998/plpt-a18.shtml It was here that Pol Pot, heavily influenced by the Chinese Stalinists, devised the political perspective of what was to become the Khmer Rouge--an extreme form of Mao Zedong's eclectic mixture of Stalinism, nationalism and peasant radicalism. It is characteristic of the ideological falsification produced by Stalinism that the label of Marxism has been placed upon social and political phenomena which have nothing whatsoever to do with the ideas of Marx, Engels or Lenin. Classical Marxism envisioned a new society, democratically controlled by the working class, which would take as its point of departure the highest level of the productive forces developed under capitalism. This presupposed the widest possible scope for the development of industry, science and technique, all of them bound up with the growth of cities, the urban proletariat and the cultural life of the population as a whole. No more grotesque distortion can be imagined than to categorize as Marxist the ideas of Pol Pot and his cohorts. As early as the 1950s Khieu Samphan, Pol Pot's closest aide, had outlined a perspective of creating a primitive peasant-based society in which money, culture and all other facets of urban life would be abolished. and http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/polpot2.html The Khmer Rouge regime reached a climax in September 1977 when Pol Pot took to the airwaves and spoke for nearly five hours on Cambodian radio. For the first time, Pol Pot acknowledged to the world that Cambodia was now run by a communist government. The day after the speech he flew to Beijing to meet with Hua Guofeng, who had just become leader of the People's Republic of China following the death of Mao Ze Dong. The Chinese pledged to support the Khmer Rouge's rivalry with the Vietnamese but recommended against all-out war, knowing full well that Vietnam was in a much better position to win the fight. The meeting probably delayed an impending Cambodian assault on Vietnam, but the Vietnamese interpreted it as another sign of China's military support of an increasingly dangerous Cambodia. I guess this validates what we have all been saying. The average American wouldn't support secret bombing of Cambodia, yet there was secret bombing. The average Chinese wouldn't support Pol Port, yet there was Pol Pot. It is the shysters at the top that seem to screw things up for everybody. Will the average person ever see? I still have hope. Best Regards and Happy New Year!!, Peter G. Thailand --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, You live closer to it, but I have large difficulties to see that China was behind the Cambodian Pol Pot philosophies. It was in its essence an onslaught on education and knowledge, something that is very difficult to identify with the policies of China. China have during the last 50 years had a very active support of education and knowledge. They have gone to extremes to build a solid base of professionals in all sciences. I have seen and experienced this, since the early 1960's, in their student programs for foreign studies and their willingness to send students to other countries. Hakan __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Made in China? - Cambodia.
Sideshow - Nixon, Kissinger and the Secret Bombing of Cambodia, by William Shawcross, is an excellent source. In Sideshow, journalist Shawcross presents the first full-scale investigation of the secret and illegal war the United States fought with Cambodia from 1969 to 1973, paving the way for the Khmer Rouge massacres of the mid-70s. 467 pages, Simon Schuster (May 15, 1979), ISBN: 0671230700 The Chinese pledged to support the Khmer Rouge's rivalry with the Vietnamese but recommended against all-out war, knowing full well that Vietnam was in a much better position to win the fight. The meeting probably delayed an impending Cambodian assault on Vietnam, but the Vietnamese interpreted it as another sign of China's military support of an increasingly dangerous Cambodia. My enemy's enemy is my friend. Truly a morally bankrupt policy, and (thus?) a major plank in world realpolitik. There's no need to have any ideology or philosophy or anything else in common other than a shared enmity. For another view of China, try Fanshen - A Documentary of Revolution in a Chinese Village by William Hinton. On his return to the US Hinton's copious notes and documentation for the book were impounded for 18 years, by the US Customs and then by Senator Eastland's Committee on Internal Security. This is an extraordinary book, there's nothing else quite like it. Highly recommended by Joseph Needham and many others. 637 pages, Monthly Review Press (1966), ASIN: B0006DEZZW Best wishes Keith Hi Hakan ; I admit that I don't really know the whole story, so anyone please feel free to correct me. I have many Khmer friends, and I discuss this with them often. From what I understand there were weekly flights to Beijing for supplies and military strategists. However (CS), this was only after a decade of secret bombing by the US had smashed the country and killed countless people.. Pol Pot And Kissinger - On war criminality and impunity http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/hermansept97.htm and The death of Pol Pot http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/apr1998/plpt-a18.shtml It was here that Pol Pot, heavily influenced by the Chinese Stalinists, devised the political perspective of what was to become the Khmer Rouge--an extreme form of Mao Zedong's eclectic mixture of Stalinism, nationalism and peasant radicalism. It is characteristic of the ideological falsification produced by Stalinism that the label of Marxism has been placed upon social and political phenomena which have nothing whatsoever to do with the ideas of Marx, Engels or Lenin. Classical Marxism envisioned a new society, democratically controlled by the working class, which would take as its point of departure the highest level of the productive forces developed under capitalism. This presupposed the widest possible scope for the development of industry, science and technique, all of them bound up with the growth of cities, the urban proletariat and the cultural life of the population as a whole. No more grotesque distortion can be imagined than to categorize as Marxist the ideas of Pol Pot and his cohorts. As early as the 1950s Khieu Samphan, Pol Pot's closest aide, had outlined a perspective of creating a primitive peasant-based society in which money, culture and all other facets of urban life would be abolished. and http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/polpot2.html The Khmer Rouge regime reached a climax in September 1977 when Pol Pot took to the airwaves and spoke for nearly five hours on Cambodian radio. For the first time, Pol Pot acknowledged to the world that Cambodia was now run by a communist government. The day after the speech he flew to Beijing to meet with Hua Guofeng, who had just become leader of the People's Republic of China following the death of Mao Ze Dong. The Chinese pledged to support the Khmer Rouge's rivalry with the Vietnamese but recommended against all-out war, knowing full well that Vietnam was in a much better position to win the fight. The meeting probably delayed an impending Cambodian assault on Vietnam, but the Vietnamese interpreted it as another sign of China's military support of an increasingly dangerous Cambodia. I guess this validates what we have all been saying. The average American wouldn't support secret bombing of Cambodia, yet there was secret bombing. The average Chinese wouldn't support Pol Port, yet there was Pol Pot. It is the shysters at the top that seem to screw things up for everybody. Will the average person ever see? I still have hope. Best Regards and Happy New Year!!, Peter G. Thailand --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, You live closer to it, but I have large difficulties to see that China was behind the Cambodian Pol Pot philosophies. It was in its essence an onslaught on education and knowledge, something that is very difficult to identify with the policies of China. China have during the last 50 years had a very active support of education and
Re: [Biofuel] Made in China? - Cambodia.
Peter, It is no doubt that Pol Pot was supported by the Chinese, but you said in your original email that China was behind the Pol Pot experiment and that it was some sort of experiment on their behalf. In this sense I have my doubts on that the equal sign is a valid one. Therefore I also have my doubts on that we will see any Pol Pot style regime in China, or a renewed consciousness support of such a regime anywhere else, which you envisioned. I belive that Pol Pot was a Cambodian home cooked lunatic, that for global and regional reasons had the Chinese support. This without any awareness of the consequences of the Pol Pot ideas. Who could ever belive that he was a screwed up lunatic and not a politician that only preached for the masses. A mistake that both the world and the German industrialists did with Hitler. A kind of mistake that also US have done many times in supporting some South American dictators. It does not excuse China from responsibility, or US, or Russia. We have many examples of how the major powers are tinkering with leaders of countries and belive that they can control situations that in the end are not controllable. We have some more recent examples of this in Afghanistan and Iraq. I belive that we will continue to experience this kind of tinkering and bad judgement from the larger players in the world. The incompetence and naive thought processes will continue to be amazing. We will also continue to be amazed, when we finally realize that the lunatics have very simple and basic ideological beliefs and they all the time have been honest about them. The mistake is that we belive that they were smarter than that and possessed some sort of intelligence, beyond their obvious talent of creating enthusiasm among the masses. Hakan At 04:11 AM 12/31/2004, you wrote: Hi Hakan ; I admit that I don't really know the whole story, so anyone please feel free to correct me. I have many Khmer friends, and I discuss this with them often. From what I understand there were weekly flights to Beijing for supplies and military strategists. However (CS), this was only after a decade of secret bombing by the US had smashed the country and killed countless people.. Pol Pot And Kissinger - On war criminality and impunity http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/hermansept97.htm and The death of Pol Pot http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/apr1998/plpt-a18.shtml It was here that Pol Pot, heavily influenced by the Chinese Stalinists, devised the political perspective of what was to become the Khmer Rouge--an extreme form of Mao Zedong's eclectic mixture of Stalinism, nationalism and peasant radicalism. It is characteristic of the ideological falsification produced by Stalinism that the label of Marxism has been placed upon social and political phenomena which have nothing whatsoever to do with the ideas of Marx, Engels or Lenin. Classical Marxism envisioned a new society, democratically controlled by the working class, which would take as its point of departure the highest level of the productive forces developed under capitalism. This presupposed the widest possible scope for the development of industry, science and technique, all of them bound up with the growth of cities, the urban proletariat and the cultural life of the population as a whole. No more grotesque distortion can be imagined than to categorize as Marxist the ideas of Pol Pot and his cohorts. As early as the 1950s Khieu Samphan, Pol Pot's closest aide, had outlined a perspective of creating a primitive peasant-based society in which money, culture and all other facets of urban life would be abolished. and http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/polpot2.html The Khmer Rouge regime reached a climax in September 1977 when Pol Pot took to the airwaves and spoke for nearly five hours on Cambodian radio. For the first time, Pol Pot acknowledged to the world that Cambodia was now run by a communist government. The day after the speech he flew to Beijing to meet with Hua Guofeng, who had just become leader of the People's Republic of China following the death of Mao Ze Dong. The Chinese pledged to support the Khmer Rouge's rivalry with the Vietnamese but recommended against all-out war, knowing full well that Vietnam was in a much better position to win the fight. The meeting probably delayed an impending Cambodian assault on Vietnam, but the Vietnamese interpreted it as another sign of China's military support of an increasingly dangerous Cambodia. I guess this validates what we have all been saying. The average American wouldn't support secret bombing of Cambodia, yet there was secret bombing. The average Chinese wouldn't support Pol Port, yet there was Pol Pot. It is the shysters at the top that seem to screw things up for everybody. Will the average person ever see? I still have hope. Best Regards and Happy New Year!!, Peter G. Thailand --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, You live closer to it, but I have large
Re: [Biofuel] Made in China? - Cambodia.
Hi Hakan ; --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I belive that Pol Pot was a Cambodian home cooked lunatic, that for global and regional reasons had the Chinese support. Yes you may very well be right. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Made in China? - Cambodia.
Hakan and Guag, What we in Singapore know about Cambodia is only write up by Cambodian refugees and King Norodom Sihanouk. When the Killing Fields was aired, everyone was outraged and enraged. Subsequently the local news carried more news about later developments. By then more than 2 million innocent Cambodians were slaughtered with the skulls stacked in temple and shown on TV. Subsequently there were news about Vietnamese capturing Cambodia. Pol Pot and Khieu Samphan fled into the China. King Sihanouk all these while was sick and being treated in Beijing and was powerless. We were aware that Pol Pot army were armed by the Chinese and Russians. Finally we read that China had enough and told Vietnam to get out of Cambodia or faced the wrath of the Chinese Army. The Chinese moved a Division of their crack Szechuan unit across Vietnam's border and Vietnam immediately moved out of Cambodia and Hun Sen was allowed to take over Cambodia. What happened to 2 million Cambodian innocently killed by a lunatic Pol Pot was certainly beyond comprehension? Killing Adolf Hitler would not bring back millions of innocent Jews. The hanging of General Tojo would not bring back the 20 million Chinese killed by the Japanese Army who claimed he was acting under orders of the Japanese Emperor. Some people trying to blame the Chinese Government for the Killing Fields in Cambodia, certainly has no leg to stand on. Moral - We must not let any lunatic run a country. Bush thought Saddam was lunatic so he moved in. CS - Original Message - From: Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Made in China? - Cambodia. Hi Hakan ; I admit that I don't really know the whole story, so anyone please feel free to correct me. I have many Khmer friends, and I discuss this with them often. From what I understand there were weekly flights to Beijing for supplies and military strategists. However (CS), this was only after a decade of secret bombing by the US had smashed the country and killed countless people.. Pol Pot And Kissinger - On war criminality and impunity http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/hermansept97.htm and The death of Pol Pot http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/apr1998/plpt-a18.shtml It was here that Pol Pot, heavily influenced by the Chinese Stalinists, devised the political perspective of what was to become the Khmer Rouge--an extreme form of Mao Zedong's eclectic mixture of Stalinism, nationalism and peasant radicalism. It is characteristic of the ideological falsification produced by Stalinism that the label of Marxism has been placed upon social and political phenomena which have nothing whatsoever to do with the ideas of Marx, Engels or Lenin. Classical Marxism envisioned a new society, democratically controlled by the working class, which would take as its point of departure the highest level of the productive forces developed under capitalism. This presupposed the widest possible scope for the development of industry, science and technique, all of them bound up with the growth of cities, the urban proletariat and the cultural life of the population as a whole. No more grotesque distortion can be imagined than to categorize as Marxist the ideas of Pol Pot and his cohorts. As early as the 1950s Khieu Samphan, Pol Pot's closest aide, had outlined a perspective of creating a primitive peasant-based society in which money, culture and all other facets of urban life would be abolished. and http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/polpot2.html The Khmer Rouge regime reached a climax in September 1977 when Pol Pot took to the airwaves and spoke for nearly five hours on Cambodian radio. For the first time, Pol Pot acknowledged to the world that Cambodia was now run by a communist government. The day after the speech he flew to Beijing to meet with Hua Guofeng, who had just become leader of the People's Republic of China following the death of Mao Ze Dong. The Chinese pledged to support the Khmer Rouge's rivalry with the Vietnamese but recommended against all-out war, knowing full well that Vietnam was in a much better position to win the fight. The meeting probably delayed an impending Cambodian assault on Vietnam, but the Vietnamese interpreted it as another sign of China's military support of an increasingly dangerous Cambodia. I guess this validates what we have all been saying. The average American wouldn't support secret bombing of Cambodia, yet there was secret bombing. The average Chinese wouldn't support Pol Port, yet there was Pol Pot. It is the shysters at the top that seem to screw things up for everybody. Will the average person ever see? I still have hope. Best Regards
