Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Ok, you've got me to look! What is everyone trying to figure out?? (LOL) Curtis Electronic Technician / Electronics Hobbyist / Experimenter Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer You're asking me a question I can't answer! I majored in biology / English / Bible / History and right now I manage a learning center that helps teach people how to read. Electronics has never been my forte! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
an auto starter would work, but is over kill. it's designed for high torque, and uses high amps. you would need a very high wattage resistor (or run full tilt). Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer You're asking me a question I can't answer! I majored in biology / English / Bible / History and right now I manage a learning center that helps teach people how to read. Electronics has never been my forte! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
lowering the voltage to a dc motor kills the torque. duty cycle modulate the motor. doesn't waste power in a resistor either. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:16 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power an auto starter would work, but is over kill. it's designed for high torque, and uses high amps. you would need a very high wattage resistor (or run full tilt). Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer You're asking me a question I can't answer! I majored in biology / English / Bible / History and right now I manage a learning center that helps teach people how to read. Electronics has never been my forte! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
you don't need much torque for this application. It's the wrong tool for the job any way you look at it. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 9:45 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power lowering the voltage to a dc motor kills the torque. duty cycle modulate the motor. doesn't waste power in a resistor either. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:16 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power an auto starter would work, but is over kill. it's designed for high torque, and uses high amps. you would need a very high wattage resistor (or run full tilt). Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer You're asking me a question I can't answer! I majored in biology / English / Bible / History and right now I manage a learning center that helps teach people how to read. Electronics has never been my forte! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
I have seen an automotive starter motor used to power a grain auger used which was being used to move wheat from a truck into a seeder. They seem to withstand that abuse. EdB - Original Message - From: Steve Spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power an auto starter would work, but is over kill. it's designed for high torque, and uses high amps. you would need a very high wattage resistor (or run full tilt). Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer You're asking me a question I can't answer! I majored in biology / English / Bible / History and right now I manage a learning center that helps teach people how to read. Electronics has never been my forte! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Motors for pumps - was Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Come on, guys, change the header already! Maybe these motors are powerful or maybe not but I doubt they're arrogant! Thanks Keith you don't need much torque for this application. It's the wrong tool for the job any way you look at it. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 9:45 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power lowering the voltage to a dc motor kills the torque. duty cycle modulate the motor. doesn't waste power in a resistor either. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:16 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power an auto starter would work, but is over kill. it's designed for high torque, and uses high amps. you would need a very high wattage resistor (or run full tilt). Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer You're asking me a question I can't answer! I majored in biology / English / Bible / History and right now I manage a learning center that helps teach people how to read. Electronics has never been my forte! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/26/03 11:50:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have seen an automotive starter motor used to power a grain auger used which was being used to move wheat from a truck into a seeder. They seem to withstand that abuse. EdB thx Ed, i was wondering if a starter would have a good run time since it has brushes..thx for the input :-) thx, Jennifer :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/26/03 9:17:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: an auto starter would work, but is over kill. it's designed for high torque, and uses high amps. you would need a very high wattage resistor (or run full tilt). Thank you steve, hmmm,. maybe a 12v starter for a 5 HP snowthrower or lawn tractor would be a good size..just 1 of several powerplants i'm thinking on trying for mobile setups, use a washer 110v motor and pump here at the house thx again, Jennifer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/26/03 9:51:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: lowering the voltage to a dc motor kills the torque. duty cycle modulate the motor. doesn't waste power in a resistor either. Kirk Great idea, didn't think of that, thank you...jennifer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/26/03 9:57:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you don't need much torque for this application. It's the wrong tool for the job any way you look at it. Steve Spence THx, i kinda figured it was in stock trim, thx for the input ...Jenn :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Motors for pumps - was Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/26/03 11:38:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Come on, guys, change the header already! Maybe these motors are powerful or maybe not but I doubt they're arrogant! Thanks Keith ROFL, good point, Actually i think the starter on the 454 in my 71 Chevelle has an Attitude..some hot days..it thinks it has the day off it seems ! ;-) Jennifer :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Motors for pumps - was Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/26/03 11:38:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Come on, guys, change the header already! Maybe these motors are powerful or maybe not but I doubt they're arrogant! Thanks Keith ROFL, good point, Well why didn't you do it then?? Sheesh! :-( Keith Actually i think the starter on the 454 in my 71 Chevelle has an Attitude..some hot days..it thinks it has the day off it seems ! ;-) Jennifer :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
short term usage in high torque requirements. they are good for that. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: bratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power I have seen an automotive starter motor used to power a grain auger used which was being used to move wheat from a truck into a seeder. They seem to withstand that abuse. EdB - Original Message - From: Steve Spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power an auto starter would work, but is over kill. it's designed for high torque, and uses high amps. you would need a very high wattage resistor (or run full tilt). Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer You're asking me a question I can't answer! I majored in biology / English / Bible / History and right now I manage a learning center that helps teach people how to read. Electronics has never been my forte! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/25/03 1:06:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..I'm ALL for our Armed Forces using Bio-fuels, I talk about it all the time. I think about 98% of our Vehicles ARE diesel or Kero(air) powered. I think only the civilian based Govt. cars and vans(and some of these are diesel now) are gas powered. Bio-diesel and hybrid cars in the mil. could Add great flexibility and save Tax payers a good amount of $ I would think. Jenn Have you seen the fuel reforming units made by Aspen Technologies? They were designed to allow military units carrying diesel or kerosene to reform either fuel for gas cooking and water heating, and should be usable for bio based oils. This would be an interesting technology to explore for gasoline engines, I think. http://www.idatech.com/technology/fuel_processors.html http://www.aspensystems.com/tech.html The latter link used to describe a fuel reforming unit. http://www.tekkie.com/innovagen.htm robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind .I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer You're asking me a question I can't answer! I majored in biology / English / Bible / History and right now I manage a learning center that helps teach people how to read. Electronics has never been my forte! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
..I'm ALL for our Armed Forces using Bio-fuels, I talk about it all the time. I think about 98% of our Vehicles ARE diesel or Kero(air) powered. I think only the civilian based Govt. cars and vans(and some of these are diesel now) are gas powered. Bio-diesel and hybrid cars in the mil. could Add great flexibility and save Tax payers a good amount of $ I would think. Jenn Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 02:13 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..I'm ALL for our Armed Forces using Bio-fuels, I talk about it all the time. I think about 98% of our Vehicles ARE diesel or Kero(air) powered. I think only the civilian based Govt. cars and vans(and some of these are diesel now) are gas powered. Bio-diesel and hybrid cars in the mil. could Add great flexibility and save Tax payers a good amount of $ I would think. Jenn Certainly the ability for military hardware to run on a wide variety of fuels is a significant advantage for any army. seems to me vegi oil is the most likely to be available fuel in any war zone :-) well, maybe after moonshine ;-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..I'm ALL for our Armed Forces using Bio-fuels, I talk about it all the time. I think about 98% of our Vehicles ARE diesel or Kero(air) powered. I think only the civilian based Govt. cars and vans(and some of these are diesel now) are gas powered. Bio-diesel and hybrid cars in the mil. could Add great flexibility and save Tax payers a good amount of $ I would think. Jenn Have you seen the fuel reforming units made by Aspen Technologies? They were designed to allow military units carrying diesel or kerosene to reform either fuel for gas cooking and water heating, and should be usable for bio based oils. This would be an interesting technology to explore for gasoline engines, I think. http://www.idatech.com/technology/fuel_processors.html http://www.aspensystems.com/tech.html The latter link used to describe a fuel reforming unit. http://www.tekkie.com/innovagen.htm robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Paul other non-believers: Please leave God out of your discussion! Show some respects toward other members! Thanks you! Political Discussion: It will die down when the war is over, please have patience and also respect each others! When the time change, the topic will be back to BioFuel only! Have patience! Please! Jennifer: Happy to find you are interested in BioFuel like the rest of us. But how come the military is not getting any BioFuel? They are good for commuter buses and transportation? Help us!? And you should know promoting BioFuel is the responsibility of any governments. To find alternative fuel. While the European Governments are working on producing more BioFuel, this Administration is too busy and President Bush is slashing budgets for renewable energy programs! Government can do a lot more than BioFuel group. But the only discussion you can find is here in this group? It saddens me that the Administration cares more on Oil Industry but not the Farming or BioFuel Industry! Never heard a word of encouragement from them to produce more BioFuel or providing equal if not more than the 1.2 Billion funds for Hydrogen program! (Producing from the same Oil Industry maybe?) You are not responsible for this, but if you are following up this subject. You will learn the fact that why only 1% American drives Diesel vehicles while European is 37%(French is 68%). Leaders should lead the people, we are trying to promote BioFuel in the private sector! That is not fair and not for the best interest of American people! BioFuel is cleaner and there are millions of over production crops, if an able government is a good leader for BioFuel. They can do a lot! The farmers with high tech are one of the best, most productive farmers in the world. But the government set quota for them and didn't find a way to help them to produce to full or bigger capacity for making BioFuel! It's such a simple oversight or other conspiracy? Farming and BioFuel deserve more attention. It's equally important to have fossil fuels for people who needs speed and fly airplanes. But for others who only needs for transportation not top speeds, BioFuel is the fuel. It should be the basic fuel, the government should charge more on gasoline(Which we have to pay higher military expense to secure) but free taxation for BioFuel.(Because it's made in USA and cleaner energy) Maybe protectionism is bad to protect domestic industries from foreign import. But considering the hostile oil producing nations, this is another survival fight. Even Military may solve the current urgency, but in the long run a substitute fuel is most important and TOP URGENT World Energy is raising price from $2.87 to $3.40/gallon in SFO? While Biodiesel Industries has price $1.40/gallon out of Vegas. Why are World Energy charging so high? Seeing that gasoline is raising prices, so BioFuel is raising price as well? You should try to lower the price to win more drivers to drive BioDiesel Vehicles!! The BioFuel industry is like the European Union, a body with so many heads with their own interests! You see! When you need the government and they are not there!? If I had to trust my life to the hand of God, or the United States Marine Corp, I'd chose USMC. They have a better record of protecting people from the thugs of this world. Semper Fi Paul Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Disconnects - was Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Hello Todd and all - Original Message - From: Paul Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power snip Let's get back on topic. Paul And then he posts four more times off topic. Go figure. Captain Jennifer also did that: My last word on this subject... Next message: PS..at NO POINT did I mention Treason... Next message: Dear Harley... - last-word promises all forgotten by now. (Fine critters, goldfish...) But then who ever said that arch conservative types play by any rules but the ones they make up as they go. We're getting some real textbook examples of that, eh? A bit of a blood thirsty chap and none too prone towards historical accuracy to boot. Todd Swearingen And a bit disconnected too. I got a thoroughly strange off-list message from the guy saying this: You know, after a week or two of USA bashing, bashing of those who support and defend this country and 24 hours of me defending my country and its leaders what happens, I get kicked off. So much for diversity of opinion. Never mind all the same old usual disconnects with USA bashing etc - Thor and Robert, Americans both, have responded to that more than adequately: the point is HE WASN'T KICKED OFF! And still hasn't been. And *of course* he thinks he's been disciplined because of his opinion - how inconvenient it would be otherwise, to see it for what it is: nothing to do with opinion, but with the gratuitous abuse of another member. Yet he says he did apologise to Andrew, both on-list and without reservation (but would he ever have done so had he not been told to? - no way) - but he got booted before it could be posted. Nope - my message had told him his posting privileges had been suspended, so what a surprise when he finds he can't post. Every message contains this in the header: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED], and indeed that's who his message to me was addressed to - but he didn't try to send the apology there. He did, however, cc his message to me to Harley and Capt Jennifer USAF. Also a fairly textbook example of the tortured logic by which the war-party rationalises its irrational behaviour. Just as long as they're all happy, never mind who else gets dead somehow. Most weirdly, Paul says it's all my fault, LOL! Frankly, you should have stopped the political threads the moment it started. They were off-topic and inflammatory. I'm sorry you and I don't see eye to eye on the politics But, like I said, I didn't start it. All I really wanted to do was end the political nonsense and, in someway, I succeeded, I think. If you want a good list you should stop these things before they start. You should state clearly in the rules that these types of postings will not be tolerated. Frankly, my outburst was caused by your inaction. You should have nipped it in the bud. If I have contributed to your education on list management then, in some small way, I have succeeded in making the bio-diesel list a better place. :-/ I guess he even believes it. Er, thankyou Paul, sorry to be so recalcitrant, but it seems I remain uneducated. Not sure how it's my fault that you called Andrew a fascist (for protesting at the bombing of innocent civilians). I guess he'll be puzzled how come he's still getting emails even though he got kicked off. Maybe he'll figure it out in the end. Harley, by the way, preferring his denials, unsubbed. That's just cutting off your nose to spite your face. Well, of course he can still read messages at the list board at Yahoo, though that really does make it difficult to sort out the biofuels-content (!) messages from the political crap he says he doesn't want (at least that of it he disagrees with). I think Mark's hilarious on-tyopic/off-topic post put it all in perspective (at last!), along with Robert's letter: nauseating when viewed from a non-American perspective. The problems are compounded by many years of fundamentally flawed energy policy, and that's the reason why this discussion BELONGS on a biofuels list. He's not the first to say that. As for the USA-bashing complaints, it's baffling - nearly all of it comes from Americans. Point that out and they take no notice, plough right on complaining about USA-bashing, and convinced of it furthermore, regardless. Sheesh! Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Tricia Liu wrote: Paul other non-believers: Please leave God out of your discussion! Show some respects toward other members! Thanks you! I agree with what you're saying Tricia, but some people have talked about God here in the past without any disrespect and without being off-topic either, or not much. So maybe it's okay as long as it's done with respect and with consideration for other list members' beliefs. Political Discussion: It will die down when the war is over, please have patience and also respect each others! When the time change, the topic will be back to BioFuel only! Have patience! Please! I doubt it will ever die down, too many people here see biofuels as a very political subject - it IS a very political subject! This debate about politics has been going on almost since the list started three years ago. There's been consistent majority support for keeping the discussion open and unrestricted, especially because the membership is so broad (worldwide) and diverse. Looking at the list as a whole, at everything that's happened here since it was founded, the whole body of the archives, and all the spin-offs, actions, campaigns, advocacy, results, technology and method and information development and improvements, there's no doubt that it has paid off very well indeed, in many different and unexpected ways. Best wishes Keith snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Disconnects - was Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
If you want a good list you should stop these things before they start. You should state clearly in the rules that these types of postings will not be tolerated. Frankly, my outburst was caused by your inaction. You should have nipped it in the bud. No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong, which no doubt I am :-) But isn't that one of the arguements that conservatives alway use against liberals. I thought it was the demon liberals who are always chastised for attributing poor behavior and bad choices at doorsteps other than personal responsibility - a product of genetics, a product of parenting, a product of social influences, a product of their environment. Does that make Mr. Shwartz a bleeding heart liberal? Doubtful. But is more along the lines of making up the rules and changing them to fit as you go. Seems to be an ever increasing practice amongst the right these days. No wonder I took a left out of their camp decades ago. Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Wake up oh naive and young one. There would be no national security issue were there no black tar beneath their sands. There would be no military presence over the decades were there no black tar beneath their sands. There would be no feeling of oppression, American Imperialism and assertion of American will on sovreign nations over the past half century and more were there no black tar beneath their sands. There would almost certainly have been no September 11th (as the world has come to know it) were there no American presence on Arab soil - due to the black tar beneath their sands (over the decades having become a national security issue). Ron and Rummie would have cut no military deals of support with a dictator during Ronnie's Run had there been no black tar beneath their sands - it's availability being threatened by the radical extremism exuding from Iran. A mad man most probably would never have attacked Kuwait or gassed his own people had he not received the chemical and other material aid from the US - a result of black tar being beneath their sands. The US would never have had to enter a first Gulf War had all the above been addressed differently, even responsibly - had the US not exacted its measure in the overbearing manner of a grossly overt capitalist pig - The Great Satan. But no. The US chose one path out of a hundred that has brought us to this point. A path that is represented by words from a past Gulf War president that echo accurately to this very day - that This is about preserving the American lifestyle. And words from a past Gulf War secretary of State - that This is about jobs. American jobs. So in truth madaam, all of this has been and is a cumulative result of American and western preferenence. It is a matter of American and wester imperialism and empire building, as evidenced by the trinkets and trash of the empire - the squandering and avarice of every type - what conservatives of every type consider the American birthright - with such obliteratively consumptive pursuits steering an entire globe and its peoples to the brink of devastation, one war, one oil spill, one shipwreck at a time. When the opportuniities have existed to effect change, America and the rest of the civilized (?) world have chosen the forks in the road that have led to this destruction. Our congresses have done this. Our presidents have done this. Our people have done this. And our military is perceived as being nothing but the tentacle of this monster - the supposed greatest nation on earth - the nation that promotes 1,000 cities of light - the nation whose leaders espouse that what it stands for is somehow morally superior than any other ideology. Yet it remains a nation that through its leadership of collective generations and the pressures of its business driven engines has perverted the original ideaology that brought people to its shores, to one that is a meer sham of its original state. The American state has become what is correctly viewed in the world perspective as being one that operates out of double standard, is manipulative, controlling and punitive - unyielding and unrelenting in its practices of oppressing and burdening other peoples, and not just through the simple presence or threat of military might - but through its all consuming practice of monetary pursuit to the exclusiion of all else. Unfortunately, there will always be a large enough contingent that can easily dismiss all of what is lacking, all of what has been intentionally swept into the dustbin and discarded without hesitation, all that was supposed to be the solid foundation that a fair and right nation should stand on, in favor of the immediate and with little to no forethought of any future save the short term. And perhaps much to your dismay, there is and will be no last word on this or any issue until the people and governemt of this nation own up to all that they have failed to for so long - the very disownership that has brought the world to where it is at this moment - the very disownership that has led to the dropping of bombs and the loss of lives on this day or any subsequent day - civilian and military - each being no more and no less valuable than the other. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power In a message dated 3/21/03 12:08:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jennifer: Just wondering, did you take an oath to defend the US Constitution? Did you notice any mention of building a foreign empire in it? EdB - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
On Fri, 2003-03-21 at 17:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/21/03 7:16:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jennifer, Capt. USAF: Thank you for being who you are, and for keeping my home, wife, children, and grandchild safe. Harley in Wisconsin Dear Harley: You're welcome, and thank you, your one sweet line means more to me than a months pay, and that's the truth, for there is no amount of $$ worth putting your life on the line for. But YOU and your families' security ARE. Sleep well my Friend, no one will hurt you, not on my watch! Respectfully yours, Jennifer, Capt. USAF Greetings Best wishes in keeping your promise - not even GOD gives a flat out promise like that. A Western Canadian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Jennifer: Just wondering, did you take an oath to defend the US Constitution? Did you notice any mention of building a foreign empire in it? God bless Jennifer and all those who are in uniform. History will prove that they are saving this planet from tyrants and thugs, unlike the Europeans in the 1930's. At least Tony Blair has the testicles to commit political suicide to save the world from the likes of Saddam. Wherever Blair went to school must have had a good history department. Let's get back on topic. Paul Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Greetings Best wishes in keeping your promise - not even GOD gives a flat out promise like that. A Western Canadian If I had to trust my life to the hand of God, or the United States Marine Corp, I'd chose USMC. They have a better record of protecting people from the thugs of this world. Semper Fi Paul Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
- Original Message - From: Paul Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power snip Let's get back on topic. Paul And then he posts four more times off topic. Go figure. But then who ever said that arch conservative types play by any rules but the ones they make up as they go. A bit of a blood thirsty chap and none too prone towards historical accuracy to boot. Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:48:09 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF Hi Jennifer There's quite a vigorous discussion in the UK tv/radio media about the supporting of UK troops. The traditional view is that once actions of war commence the public, politicians, the mainstream media must shut up their arguments about moralities etc.., and support the troops. The majority of Uk citizens do not support this war, and their views have largely been ignored by government. 'Not in our Name', as you'll probably be aware, has been a rallying call for opponents of the war. Each time I see a combat-trousered officer being interviewed, who comes out with.. blah, blah ...there's a job to be done, I just think... Not for me.. I feel that the people of Iraq, the whole region, has suffered enough for the Saddam Husseins and the smirking, bragging Rumsfeldt's and Bush's of this world. No I don't support the US and UK troops. I don't want them to die, but I don't support them. -- Andrew Preston -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Jennifer, Capt. USAF: Thank you for being who you are, and for keeping my home, wife, children, and grandchild safe. Harley in Wisconsin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:48 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/21/03 12:08:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jennifer: Just wondering, did you take an oath to defend the US Constitution? Did you notice any mention of building a foreign empire in it? EdB - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF ...My last word on this subject. There is NO Empire building. There is only taking out a threat, and then Giving Iraq to THE PEOPLE of iraq!!..hello Is Germany an American colony??? France(definitely not), they have 10s of 1000s of American GIs buried in their soil from our LIBERATION of them from Hitler (Also notice Iraqi soldiers running to our lines as we speak. Giving up to journalists and marine traffic control unitsIs Japan a colony??? None are..but we defeated all of them, and then totally rebuilt them. And set them on their way. I rest my case on the History of our armed Forces professionalism, and fair treatment, and the benevolence to those we defeat on the battlefield. I have news for you, we are a force of good. This is not the end. Terrorism and those who support it are going to be taken out, one after the other. The peace loving people caught in the middle will ALWAYS be protected as much as we humanly can, as THAT is the way of the US Armed Forces. 1 of our mottos is Mission First, People always And when it's done and over, we will as we have always done, Rebuild the infrastructure and the economy of those we have defeated, and Improve their standard of life, and be on our way, as this has been our history in last 100 years. And I will repeat, in these conflicts.you will notice, everyone Runs TO the American lines, not from us. And we welcome them, feed them, give aid and shelter. That is who we are, and i would not TOLERATE any less from ANYONE in a unit of mine, no matter what their rank, above or below me! ...Wishing you all the best, and I'm VERY interested in Bio-fuels(the reason i got ON this list. ), and would like to see E-mail on that subject(my point beyond the latter), and look forward to reading all your insights and tips on Bio-fuel production. Respectfully yours, Jennifer, Capt. USAF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
PS..at NO POINT did I mention Treason.Oddly, you feel treasonous? It is treason if Congress has declared us to be in a full scale war. They have Not, they declared Support for President Bush to deploy and use Force...but...either wayour enemies perception of this dissent can give comfort, aid and incentive to them, and prolong the fighting, and lengthen the list of dead and injured. end of story. Jennifer, Capt. USAF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/21/03 7:16:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jennifer, Capt. USAF: Thank you for being who you are, and for keeping my home, wife, children, and grandchild safe. Harley in Wisconsin Dear Harley: You're welcome, and thank you, your one sweet line means more to me than a months pay, and that's the truth, for there is no amount of $$ worth putting your life on the line for. But YOU and your families' security ARE. Sleep well my Friend, no one will hurt you, not on my watch! Respectfully yours, Jennifer, Capt. USAF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Treason consists of two elements: adherence to the enemy, and rendering him aid and comfort. So yes, whether you intended to or not, you said treason. When was the last time the US was at war? The government's definition of war is deprecated to what it actually is. Launching an attack called shock and awe is just a police action right? Prove that dissent will cause the enemy to want to fight more. You can't. Did the Viet Cong want to fight more because hippies didn't want their government over there? I would like to point out that I am not anti-soldier. I respect your job. I don't dislike anyone because they do their job. I, however, reserve the right to agree or disagree with what my goverment does without being called one who aids the enemy. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS..at NO POINT did I mention Treason.Oddly, you feel treasonous? It is treason if Congress has declared us to be in a full scale war. They have Not, they declared Support for President Bush to deploy and use Force...but...either wayour enemies perception of this dissent can give comfort, aid and incentive to them, and prolong the fighting, and lengthen the list of dead and injured. end of story. Jennifer, Capt. USAF -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Senator Robert Byrd, for all of his faults, continues to voice a dissenting view on Bush Administration policy with a sense of outrage, clarity and compassion. Senate Remarks by Robert C. Byrd March 19, 2003 The Arrogance of Power I believe in this beautiful country. I have studied its roots and gloried in the wisdom of its magnificent Constitution. I have marveled at the wisdom of its founders and framers. Generation after generation of Americans has understood the lofty ideals that underlie our great Republic. I have been inspired by the story of their sacrifice and their strength. But, today I weep for my country. I have watched the events of recent months with a heavy, heavy heart. No more is the image of America one of strong, yet benevolent peacekeeper. The image of America has changed. Around the globe, our friends mistrust us, our word is disputed, our intentions are questioned. Instead of reasoning with those with whom we disagree, we demand obedience or threaten recrimination. Instead of isolating Saddam Hussein, we seem to have isolated ourselves. We proclaim a new doctrine of preemption which is understood by few and feared by many. We say that the United States has the right to turn its firepower on any corner of the globe which might be suspect in the war on terrorism. We assert that right without the sanction of any international body. As a result, the world has become a much more dangerous place. We flaunt our superpower status with arrogance. We treat UN Security Council members like ingrates who offend our princely dignity by lifting their heads from the carpet. Valuable alliances are split. After war has ended, the United States will have to rebuild much more than the country of Iraq. We will have to rebuild America's image around the globe. The case this Administration tries to make to justify its fixation with war is tainted by charges of falsified documents and circumstantial evidence. We cannot convince the world of the necessity of this war for one simple reason. This is a war of choice. There is no credible information to connect Saddam Hussein to 9/11. The twin towers fell because a world-wide terrorist group, Al Qaeda, with cells in over 60 nations, struck at our wealth and our influence by turning our own planes into missiles, one of which would likely have slammed into the dome of this beautiful Capitol except for the brave sacrifice of the passengers on board. The brutality seen on September 11th and in other terrorist attacks we have witnessed around the globe are the violent and desperate efforts by extremists to stop the daily encroachment of western values upon their cultures. That is what we fight. It is a force not confined to borders. It is a shadowy entity with many faces, many names, and many addresses. But, this Administration has directed all of the anger, fear, and grief which emerged from the ashes of the twin towers and the twisted metal of the Pentagon towards a tangible villain, one we can see and hate and attack. And villain he is. But, he is the wrong villain. And this is the wrong war. If we attack Saddam Hussein, we will probably drive him from power. But, the zeal of our friends to assist our global war on terrorism may have already taken flight. The general unease surrounding this war is not just due to orange alert. There is a pervasive sense of rush and risk and too many questions unanswered. How long will we be in Iraq? What will be the cost? What is the ultimate mission? How great is the danger at home? A pall has fallen over the Senate Chamber. We avoid our solemn duty to debate the one topic on the minds of all Americans, even while scores of thousands of our sons and daughters faithfully do their duty in Iraq. What is happening to this country? When did we become a nation which ignores and berates our friends? When did we decide to risk undermining international order by adopting a radical and doctrinaire approach to using our awesome military might? How can we abandon diplomatic efforts when the turmoil in the world cries out for diplomacy? Why can this President not seem to see that America's true power lies not in its will to intimidate, but in its ability to inspire? War appears inevitable. But, I continue to hope that the cloud will lift. Perhaps Saddam will yet turn tail and run. Perhaps reason will somehow still prevail. I along with millions of Americans will pray for the safety of our troops, for the innocent civilians in Iraq, and for the security of our homeland. May God continue to bless the United States of America in the troubled days ahead, and may we somehow recapture the vision which for the present eludes us. ### Daniel O'Brien History Department The Island School
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Dear Jack, I admire Senator Robert Byrd also. I read his speeches and saw him on Larry King Live. It has been a long time now, since a saw anyone in the administration or congress, that have the clout of statesmanship that he is showing. He has a courage and wisdom that been lacking for a long time in US government. Hakan At 10:10 AM 3/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: Senator Robert Byrd, for all of his faults, continues to voice a dissenting view on Bush Administration policy with a sense of outrage, clarity and compassion. Senate Remarks by Robert C. Byrd March 19, 2003 The Arrogance of Power I believe in this beautiful country. I have studied its roots and gloried in the wisdom of its magnificent Constitution. I have marveled at the wisdom of its founders and framers. Generation after generation of Americans has understood the lofty ideals that underlie our great Republic. I have been inspired by the story of their sacrifice and their strength. But, today I weep for my country. I have watched the events of recent months with a heavy, heavy heart. No more is the image of America one of strong, yet benevolent peacekeeper. The image of America has changed. Around the globe, our friends mistrust us, our word is disputed, our intentions are questioned. Instead of reasoning with those with whom we disagree, we demand obedience or threaten recrimination. Instead of isolating Saddam Hussein, we seem to have isolated ourselves. We proclaim a new doctrine of preemption which is understood by few and feared by many. We say that the United States has the right to turn its firepower on any corner of the globe which might be suspect in the war on terrorism. We assert that right without the sanction of any international body. As a result, the world has become a much more dangerous place. We flaunt our superpower status with arrogance. We treat UN Security Council members like ingrates who offend our princely dignity by lifting their heads from the carpet. Valuable alliances are split. After war has ended, the United States will have to rebuild much more than the country of Iraq. We will have to rebuild America's image around the globe. The case this Administration tries to make to justify its fixation with war is tainted by charges of falsified documents and circumstantial evidence. We cannot convince the world of the necessity of this war for one simple reason. This is a war of choice. There is no credible information to connect Saddam Hussein to 9/11. The twin towers fell because a world-wide terrorist group, Al Qaeda, with cells in over 60 nations, struck at our wealth and our influence by turning our own planes into missiles, one of which would likely have slammed into the dome of this beautiful Capitol except for the brave sacrifice of the passengers on board. The brutality seen on September 11th and in other terrorist attacks we have witnessed around the globe are the violent and desperate efforts by extremists to stop the daily encroachment of western values upon their cultures. That is what we fight. It is a force not confined to borders. It is a shadowy entity with many faces, many names, and many addresses. But, this Administration has directed all of the anger, fear, and grief which emerged from the ashes of the twin towers and the twisted metal of the Pentagon towards a tangible villain, one we can see and hate and attack. And villain he is. But, he is the wrong villain. And this is the wrong war. If we attack Saddam Hussein, we will probably drive him from power. But, the zeal of our friends to assist our global war on terrorism may have already taken flight. The general unease surrounding this war is not just due to orange alert. There is a pervasive sense of rush and risk and too many questions unanswered. How long will we be in Iraq? What will be the cost? What is the ultimate mission? How great is the danger at home? A pall has fallen over the Senate Chamber. We avoid our solemn duty to debate the one topic on the minds of all Americans, even while scores of thousands of our sons and daughters faithfully do their duty in Iraq. What is happening to this country? When did we become a nation which ignores and berates our friends? When did we decide to risk undermining international order by adopting a radical and doctrinaire approach to using our awesome military might? How can we abandon diplomatic efforts when the turmoil in the world cries out for diplomacy? Why can this President not seem to see that America's true power lies not in its will to intimidate, but in its ability to inspire? War appears inevitable. But, I continue to hope that the cloud will lift. Perhaps Saddam will yet turn tail and run. Perhaps reason will somehow
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
10-4 Paul - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Jennifer: Just wondering, did you take an oath to defend the US Constitution? Did you notice any mention of building a foreign empire in it? EdB - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Well Captain Jennifer, It would seem that you would like to function as the Thought Police as well as an MP? Command and control tactics at their finest, eh? Or is it their worst? I suppose it all depends from which end of the barrel one is looking. As for the fact that you're IN the military, that was indeed your choice was it not? No one is spitting on the military. Everyone is perfectly aware as to how this peculiar democracy works (the US) inclusive of the fact that it's not generally the the tail that wags the dog. Yet you who have chosen to serve and protect democracy (wellactually only one nation's democracy) would attempt to squelch one of the most basic and esssential democratic freedoms, albeit on an international internet list. And then to go on and postulate that to speak out against the processes that have occurred - and even more importantly those processes that were never permitted to occur - is giving aid and comfort to the enemy? Why don't you just walk up with the butt of your gun, smash the case that the US constitution is encased in and then declare everyone who disagrees with you to be a traitor, (If you're not for us, you're against us.) and just line them up or shoot them on sight - women, children and veterans all. Doubtful that you're a Captain of anything save your own ship. And if you were, you'd be called front and center with the demand made that you do a gut check this very minute. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Pull your hat down lower. Feels better to say you're right because your government says so, doesn't it. Dissent does NOT equal treason. I repeat because people with their crap logic don't understand it: DISSENT DOES NOT EQUAL TREASON. People who say they don't want the military over there are commiting treason, right? I have the right to disagree with the government. The people HAVE A RIGHT TO DISAGREE. If you insist on making a woven crap connection between dissent and treason, PROVE IT. For example, I can prove my argument: Statement: I disagree with military action in the middle east Argument #1: giving comfort Reply: No matter how many Iraqis I tell, none of them are going to feel better knowing I disagree with my government. Argument #2: aid Reply: How is protesting giving aid? I didn't give anyone any sort of aid. Argument #3: incentive Reply: Is someone going to be more likely to fight knowing I don't like what's going on? No. If 2 people are in a fist fight, are they going to care what the other person's mother thinks? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Dear All I am not a selfish man and with all due respect I have signed up to this group and others to offer and get help with my research on Bio fuel (Bio diesel) (an area which although not as significant as the war is as important), and not to a political discussion on the validly of the war on Iraq or to answer and read numerous opinions on the different propagandas that those pro and ant spread. After all in 200 year or so there will be no reason for the war as all the fossil fuel will be gone so let us follow the advice of Jennifer, Capt. USAFCan all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. and march on forward with our research after all between the Iraqis burning the oil and the American army using Millions of barrels a day of the stuff to march in and destroy the axis of evil by force and no diplomacy the need for bio fuel might be sooner than later. Yours truly, An ignorant man to the human value of 2 as I can only see the 20 of today --- martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pull your hat down lower. Feels better to say you're right because your government says so, doesn't it. Dissent does NOT equal treason. I repeat because people with their crap logic don't understand it: DISSENT DOES NOT EQUAL TREASON. People who say they don't want the military over there are commiting treason, right? I have the right to disagree with the government. The people HAVE A RIGHT TO DISAGREE. If you insist on making a woven crap connection between dissent and treason, PROVE IT. For example, I can prove my argument: Statement: I disagree with military action in the middle east Argument #1: giving comfort Reply: No matter how many Iraqis I tell, none of them are going to feel better knowing I disagree with my government. Argument #2: aid Reply: How is protesting giving aid? I didn't give anyone any sort of aid. Argument #3: incentive Reply: Is someone going to be more likely to fight knowing I don't like what's going on? No. If 2 people are in a fist fight, are they going to care what the other person's mother thinks? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Hello Jennifer, Capt. USAF Can all this liberal blame America crap20 of us may die now, so that 20,000 don't die later...get over it..i'm IN the military and you won't see me whining...get back to Bio-fuel matters...and CAN all this stupid and Moot political BS. Dissent once American troops are deployed = giving comfort, aid and incentive to our enemies, thus increasing the number of AMERICAN and Iraqi deaths likelyLets talk BIO-FUELS!!.. Jennifer, Capt. USAF Please see this message: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=22825list=biofuel There's a little note to you at the end. Best wishes Keith Addison List moderator Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
