Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Matt, Please, At 01:49 03/06/2004, you wrote: I am glad to hear that you are not full of hate (you could not be all bad... you are into biodiesel!). My thing is http://energysavingnow.com/ and why I got caught in biofuels, was very much by admiration of what Keith is doing to actively help the developing countries, in many more ways than getting Americans to make biodiesel. I have gone through a couple of test batches, just to see if it was that simple and because I like to know what people are talking about. Made it simple for me, with SVO and by following instructions exactly, so I still do not have had the problems that many seems to get. This leaves me with a feeling that I do not know enough anyway, other than it is workable and viable, which was what I wanted to know in the first place. I had a lot of practise from making Ethanol when I was younger, so I did not have to revisit that. LOL However, your rhetoric is not factual and is clearly based on very one-sided information. In this context, even if you do not intend it, you are propagating a hateful message. I have a lot of information, from all kind of sides and am very active in follow up things. Maybe you do not like some of my conclusions and reactions to events, but that does not mean that I hate you or anything like it. I have not had this reactions from anyone for a long time, not since my son were a child. As I said before, I had some you do not love me anymore and similar pressures, but not pure talk about hate. What is my message? Please tell me. Jew's have a saying... Never Forget. It is easy to think that events such as the holocaust could never happen again. However, those of us whose families have been at the receiving end of hate throughout the ages, are especially attune to hate speech. I have to confront you when you spew this sort of rhetoric -- I know where it can lead. What rhetoric or hate speech? I think that we have a couple of recent holocausts and one ongoing in Sudan. It is obvious that those things are happening all the time. I believe that there are many people at fault for where we are today... Extremist Muslims, Christians, and Jews... Not to mention plenty of people who are just plane power hungry and selfish. To single out any one group or person to blame is hate -- and cannot help us reach peace. Who singled out one group? Muslims, Christians and Jews have the same God, so why are the same children of God killing each other over books? It is almost a farce, if it wasn't so tragic. Especially since their common God told them not to kill each other, it is a clear message in all the variants of the books. I am not God and it is not my children, but I am sick and tired of constantly getting involved in what his kids are messing up. Obviously they do not listen to their God. I have my own personal relationship with God and his basic rules, which I can fully subscribe to. I do not find that I can subscribe to any version of Muslim, Christian nor Jewish practises, since I find them all to be too corrupted. Therefore I do not hate, which is a very wasteful, useless and energy consuming exercise anyway, I am a bit lazy. -:) On a brighter note, I finaly got a tank of Biodiesel in my new truck today! 6 months in the making... Congratulations. -:) Hakan - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 7:14 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Matt, You are the first person in my life who accused me of being full of hate. I have been called many things in heated discussions, but never this. I just wonder, who am I supposed to hate? This is not completely true, because there are women in my life that have said you do not love me anymore or even you say this because you hate me etc.. This is not really the same thing as full of hate, but it might be a similar strategy. So what do you want from me, to prove that I do not hate you? Acceptance of Israeli war crimes? Accept Israeli discrimination and appropriations of properties? Acceptance of Israeli targeting and killing? Acceptance of Israeli internment of people, for years and without legal trials? Accept creation and maintenance of permanent refugee ghettos? What is the difference between the German raids in Warsaw and Israeli raids in Gaza? I have also been accused of having an authority complex in fighting mainstream opinion and policies. It is something in this, because I find it difficult to accept things that are not based on merits. I am happy that I do not complicate my life with hate, neither of individuals nor groups of individuals. Hate is a very unproductive and energy wasting activity. I think that it was a lot of things that triggered the WWII holocaust and it was mostly a war of financial interests, in combination with a very large Jewish refugee problem
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:19:58 +0200, you wrote: Matt, Please, At 01:49 03/06/2004, you wrote: I am glad to hear that you are not full of hate (you could not be all bad... you are into biodiesel!). My thing is http://energysavingnow.com/ and why I got caught in biofuels, was very much by admiration of what Keith is doing to actively help the developing countries, in many more ways than getting Americans to make biodiesel. I have gone through a couple of test batches, just to see if it was that simple and because I like to know what people are talking about. Made it simple for me, with SVO and by following instructions exactly, so I still do not have had the problems that many seems to get. This leaves me with a feeling that I do not know enough anyway, other than it is workable and viable, which was what I wanted to know in the first place. This about where I am (but still ahead of me). Sometimes I take a class or try an activity to verify what I want to take away from it. My guess is that, in the unlikely event I were to soon have enough money for a car, I might try one that is already pre-outfitted by a qualified outfit to run on SVO. This just might be the right solution for me, at that time. I could also purchase biodiesel at this or that station. But this is not to say that I think making ones own fuel is not very interesting or a desireable activity. Just something that I don't want to do right now, in part out of respect for some of the difficulties that I think would come up. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
You are full of hate and I feel very sorry for you. There are fanatic / extremist views in every religion... and it is simply not productive to hate and blame. Right now we seem to be living in a world where the vast majority of modorit thinking people are being oppressed by the will of extremest elements. Perhaps the reason that so many jews react strongly to this sort of hatful rhetoric is that we have learned throughout the ages to remember the tragidies of the past. It is just this sort of hate speach, that has triggered events such as the holocaust. The Jews have been without a home for the last 2000 years... We have been slaughtered and persecuted and blamed for any number of problems (this latest is not the first time people have declared the Jews to be responsible) throughout this time. Perhaps you can understand why Israel represents something that is so powerful and protected in the Jewish psychy. I would not agree with everything that Israel has done (in fact, I tend to disagree with a great many of her policies), however I have to believe in her right to exist. The Jewish religion is not perfect... Yes many people feel strongly especialy that Jews should not marry outside the religion... It is really the only thing that has allowed the religion to survive 5000 years, almost half of it without a home. At the same time, I am married to a non-jew, and my parents love her dearly. You keep reffering to Jewdiasm as a monolithic block, when you yell about text in the book used to train rabbis... I have laugh... There is no book -- I can only say, that you really have a very superficial understanding of the religion, and leave it at that. MY SOLUTION: I know that 99% of the people on this earth, wish for peace and love. I know that there are extremeist elements in every culture and religion that believe their way of thought is the right way... They are the only real enemy and evil in my book. Take a look at yourself Mr. Biobenz... because you fall into that catagory. - Original Message - From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Dear Matt. History of the Khazars and what the Talmud says is not hate it is historical FACT. I truly am sympathetic to those who suffer needlessly, be they known as jews or Palestinians or others who do not deserve the crimes commited against them, but this does not mitigate FACTS and the FACTS are that those who have set themselves up as the leaders of and spokepeople for the jewish people are Talmudists of the extreme variety and it IS important that people understand the mindset that these criminals use as a justification for their crimes. You don't agree with them, denounce them publickly or appologize for them at every opportunity. Being jewish actually puts you in a greater responsibility about this than I or others who are not called jews, as you are the one being defrauded by this more than I. I KNOW it is a lie and that the teachings of the Talmud ARE NOT the torah or simply a ccommentary. Give me a break. Commentary is one hell of a stretch gettin to where it is ok for adult males to have sex with a three year old female as the hymen will grow back. That is one hell of a commentary all right. From Facts are Facts by Benjamin H. Freedman - The role the Talmud plays in Judaism as it is practiced today is officially stated by the eminent Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer, the Director of Interreligious Activities of The North American Jewish Committee and the President of the Jewish Chaplains Association of the Armed Forces of the United States. In his present capacity as official spokesman for The American Jewish Committee, the self- styled Vatican of Judaism, Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer wrote a most revealing and comprehensive article with the title, What is a Jew which was published as a featured article in Look Magazine in the June 17, 1952 issue. In that article Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer evaluated the significance of the Talmud to Judaism today. In that illuminating treatise on that important subject by the most qualified authority, at the time, Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer stated: The Talmud consists of 63 books of legal, ethical and historical writings of the ancient rabbis. It was edited centuries after the birth of Jesus. It is a compendium of law and lore. IT IS THE LEGAL CODE WHICH FORMS THE BASIS OF THE JEWISH RELIGIOUS LAW and it is THE TEXTBOOK USED IN THE TRAINING OF THE RABBIS: You tell me how it is simply a commentary when it is the cornerstone of jewish rabbinical indoctrination. It is rather the genuine teachings and life motivating factors behind the vast majority of those who call themsleves jews but not to the exclusivity of many who DO NOT believe in the legitimacy of Zionism nor of the Talmud, but DO however lay claim to faith in Torah. http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ contains
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Matt, Why don't you and Arthur and Alex get a grip and stop with all the declarations of who is and isn't full of hate? Most people get up in the morning after a reasonably peaceful sleep and set about their business in a reasonably peaceful manner. That all rather changes hue the moment souls such as youself begin to blithely pass judgement on their character. Judging from the remarks that the three of you call hate filled, none of you have even the first clue as to what hate really is. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Matt Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan You are full of hate and I feel very sorry for you. There are fanatic / extremist views in every religion... and it is simply not productive to hate and blame. Right now we seem to be living in a world where the vast majority of modorit thinking people are being oppressed by the will of extremest elements. Perhaps the reason that so many jews react strongly to this sort of hatful rhetoric is that we have learned throughout the ages to remember the tragidies of the past. It is just this sort of hate speach, that has triggered events such as the holocaust. The Jews have been without a home for the last 2000 years... We have been slaughtered and persecuted and blamed for any number of problems (this latest is not the first time people have declared the Jews to be responsible) throughout this time. Perhaps you can understand why Israel represents something that is so powerful and protected in the Jewish psychy. I would not agree with everything that Israel has done (in fact, I tend to disagree with a great many of her policies), however I have to believe in her right to exist. The Jewish religion is not perfect... Yes many people feel strongly especialy that Jews should not marry outside the religion... It is really the only thing that has allowed the religion to survive 5000 years, almost half of it without a home. At the same time, I am married to a non-jew, and my parents love her dearly. You keep reffering to Jewdiasm as a monolithic block, when you yell about text in the book used to train rabbis... I have laugh... There is no book -- I can only say, that you really have a very superficial understanding of the religion, and leave it at that. MY SOLUTION: I know that 99% of the people on this earth, wish for peace and love. I know that there are extremeist elements in every culture and religion that believe their way of thought is the right way... They are the only real enemy and evil in my book. Take a look at yourself Mr. Biobenz... because you fall into that catagory. - Original Message - From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Dear Matt. History of the Khazars and what the Talmud says is not hate it is historical FACT. I truly am sympathetic to those who suffer needlessly, be they known as jews or Palestinians or others who do not deserve the crimes commited against them, but this does not mitigate FACTS and the FACTS are that those who have set themselves up as the leaders of and spokepeople for the jewish people are Talmudists of the extreme variety and it IS important that people understand the mindset that these criminals use as a justification for their crimes. You don't agree with them, denounce them publickly or appologize for them at every opportunity. Being jewish actually puts you in a greater responsibility about this than I or others who are not called jews, as you are the one being defrauded by this more than I. I KNOW it is a lie and that the teachings of the Talmud ARE NOT the torah or simply a ccommentary. Give me a break. Commentary is one hell of a stretch gettin to where it is ok for adult males to have sex with a three year old female as the hymen will grow back. That is one hell of a commentary all right. From Facts are Facts by Benjamin H. Freedman - The role the Talmud plays in Judaism as it is practiced today is officially stated by the eminent Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer, the Director of Interreligious Activities of The North American Jewish Committee and the President of the Jewish Chaplains Association of the Armed Forces of the United States. In his present capacity as official spokesman for The American Jewish Committee, the self- styled Vatican of Judaism, Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer wrote a most revealing and comprehensive article with the title, What is a Jew which was published as a featured article in Look Magazine in the June 17, 1952 issue. In that article Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer evaluated the significance of the Talmud to Judaism today. In that illuminating treatise on that important subject by the most qualified authority, at the time, Rabbi Morris N
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Matt, You are the first person in my life who accused me of being full of hate. I have been called many things in heated discussions, but never this. I just wonder, who am I supposed to hate? This is not completely true, because there are women in my life that have said you do not love me anymore or even you say this because you hate me etc.. This is not really the same thing as full of hate, but it might be a similar strategy. So what do you want from me, to prove that I do not hate you? Acceptance of Israeli war crimes? Accept Israeli discrimination and appropriations of properties? Acceptance of Israeli targeting and killing? Acceptance of Israeli internment of people, for years and without legal trials? Accept creation and maintenance of permanent refugee ghettos? What is the difference between the German raids in Warsaw and Israeli raids in Gaza? I have also been accused of having an authority complex in fighting mainstream opinion and policies. It is something in this, because I find it difficult to accept things that are not based on merits. I am happy that I do not complicate my life with hate, neither of individuals nor groups of individuals. Hate is a very unproductive and energy wasting activity. I think that it was a lot of things that triggered the WWII holocaust and it was mostly a war of financial interests, in combination with a very large Jewish refugee problem in Germany. I think that the Russian revolution played a very large part in creating this situation and the preferential treatments of Jews in its aftermath. It is difficult to imagine a situation where a common population could do this, but similar things are happening in Africa, as we speak. As a teenager, I heard and participated in many discussions with Jews who experienced the post WWI period in Germany. My family was very active in supporting the German Jewish WWII refugees in Sweden. It is many parallels with the Russian revolution and even similar event of modern times in Asia and Africa. Hakan At 01:46 02/06/2004, you wrote: You are full of hate and I feel very sorry for you. There are fanatic / extremist views in every religion... and it is simply not productive to hate and blame. Right now we seem to be living in a world where the vast majority of modorit thinking people are being oppressed by the will of extremest elements. Perhaps the reason that so many jews react strongly to this sort of hatful rhetoric is that we have learned throughout the ages to remember the tragidies of the past. It is just this sort of hate speach, that has triggered events such as the holocaust. The Jews have been without a home for the last 2000 years... We have been slaughtered and persecuted and blamed for any number of problems (this latest is not the first time people have declared the Jews to be responsible) throughout this time. Perhaps you can understand why Israel represents something that is so powerful and protected in the Jewish psychy. I would not agree with everything that Israel has done (in fact, I tend to disagree with a great many of her policies), however I have to believe in her right to exist. The Jewish religion is not perfect... Yes many people feel strongly especialy that Jews should not marry outside the religion... It is really the only thing that has allowed the religion to survive 5000 years, almost half of it without a home. At the same time, I am married to a non-jew, and my parents love her dearly. You keep reffering to Jewdiasm as a monolithic block, when you yell about text in the book used to train rabbis... I have laugh... There is no book -- I can only say, that you really have a very superficial understanding of the religion, and leave it at that. MY SOLUTION: I know that 99% of the people on this earth, wish for peace and love. I know that there are extremeist elements in every culture and religion that believe their way of thought is the right way... They are the only real enemy and evil in my book. Take a look at yourself Mr. Biobenz... because you fall into that catagory. - Original Message - From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Dear Matt. History of the Khazars and what the Talmud says is not hate it is historical FACT. I truly am sympathetic to those who suffer needlessly, be they known as jews or Palestinians or others who do not deserve the crimes commited against them, but this does not mitigate FACTS and the FACTS are that those who have set themselves up as the leaders of and spokepeople for the jewish people are Talmudists of the extreme variety and it IS important that people understand the mindset that these criminals use as a justification for their crimes. You don't agree with them, denounce them publickly or appologize for them at every opportunity. Being jewish actually puts you in a greater
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Hakan, It does not take a genius to (I am certainly not one) to realize that any mention of the Protocols is blatant expression of I hate the Jews. My personal goal is not to interest you on an academic level but to alert you to real hate mongering. Check out this history of the document http://skepdic.com/protocols.html As faras the personal attack is concerned MAYBE it was a lttle over the top. -Arthur Hakan Falk wrote: Arthur, I am puzzled, have looked through the thread and have large difficulties to find any I hate the Jews in it. I find some interesting ideological and theological facts in it, but expressed in a respectful and objective way. I find no reasons for this nobody likes us postings. They would be more interesting without this below the belt Lucifer things. Hakan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
There are many Jewish people who are active in bringing justice and fairness to our existence. Why Luc didn't bother to write about them? Probably for reasons similar to why you don't fix what ain't broke. - Original Message - From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan There are many Jewish people who are active in bringing justice and fairness to our existence. Why Luc didn't bother to write about them? Alex Matt Golden wrote: I am literally stunned by this outburst of hate. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
I am literally stunned by this outburst of hate. I am Jewish. Like 99% of Jews around the world, more than anything I want a true peace in the middle east. Jews are not some sort of monolithic force... or conspiracy... we are exactly like every other person on this earth. The very idea that there is one way to interpret the Talmud in itself shows this man's ignorance. The Talmud is simply a commentary on the Torah... there are literally hundreds of opinions on every topic, and none are right... It is a discussion of ideas that spans centuries. It is the debate of ideas that defines Jewish belief and law. There are extremist interpretations of every tradition... Muslim, Christian, Jewish. The interpretation of the Talmud that you refer to is an interpretation that is only believed by a few extremists, and is not part of modern Jewish understanding. One example of an extremist Christian belief that has a similar effect on world view, is the evangelical belief that only those who are born again can be saved. This tenant has the same polarizing effect as being chosen... Accum's razor might suggest that it is more likely that this line of thought could have affected our President (he is after all a practicing Born Again Evangelical Christian), rather then an obscure teaching from the Talmud. How exactly did you make the leap from Bush to Jew bashing amazing string of logic. The first step towards solving this world's problem, is for us all to look at each other with open eyes... realize that we are all human, and all faced with the same fears, and loves. We need to look in our enemies soul and realize that they are exactly like us. The first step to peace is empathy. - Original Message - From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Hubris; the unreasonable absorbtion with ones self often misrepresented as narcisism plagues Americans more than any other one single group anywhere. In a way it is not even their fault as they have been conditioned this way from birth; the thinking of the world in terms of America is the only way Americans CAN relate to the world as they are woefully ignorant (unlearned) of it other than in American terms. This latest outing of Bush et co's policies of not me first, me ONLY is merely an extrapolation of that. In ideology that only reflects the Talmudisation of America and it's pulpits as that is EXACTLY what the Talmud teaches, that all non-jews are not even to be considered as human, but are merely cattle, so America's me ONLY attitude towards the rest of the world is gain a reflection of that mindset. The Talmud teaches not a superior race ethic(!)it teaches an ONLY race one. It is little wonder that once discovered for it's true self there were born so-called persecutions and osterisations of the chosen. No one appreciates being categorised as cattle for the benefit of it's owners and masters. America DOES NOT speak for the world but it THINKS it does in it's delusion that they are the best, the greatest, the only truly capable form of political thought capable of deciding the fate of the world because they have more bombs. Might is right and truth be damned. International laws are for the subserviant not for the masters, just like Sharon and his lot in the political state of Israel.The two have worked, yes WORKED, hand in glove to see to it through numerous UN vetos, that neither would ever be held accountable to anyone who is not of the master category. Is it a piss-off ? At present the rest of the planet has had about enough of both of them and their slaughter of the poor and innocent for whatever trumped up reason they have their media shills push at us. Sooner or later the bully always gets his, and only then can the rest live in peace and cooperation, for as long as the instigators of hate and division for profit are running the show there will be no peace or ability for the haves to share with the havenots for the masters want it all for themselves. But then that is just my take on it. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Chris, Have you ever contemplated that this kind of thought are only supported by a maximum of 2% of the world population, if US are split in the middle on this issue. I and a majority of the people outside US, recent the US as a spokesman for the western civilization. Who are you, to do this kind of evaluation. It might be your personal thoughts, but you are quite alone. The ideals of all civilizations, not the practices, are equally noble. This if you look at what they say and not on what they do. The western civilization or indeed US, are in no way unique or better on this. Bush can be happy that he have no law license to loose for lying and obstructing. As I understand it, Clinton was never impeached
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Matt, I cannot see any outburst of hate, but I can see an argument that are often used. Among my many Jewish friends, I have often seen this sensitivity. Therefore it is difficult to have discussions. Otherwise I find your comments correct and interesting. Jews are not a race, they are defined by their religion and as long as its rules correspond with the society they live in, it should not be any conflict of interest. There are several severe elements of severe discrimination in the Jewish religion and even in common practise of it. I have been in the situation of being a non-religious Christian, trying to make it out with a Jewish girlfriend. Even if her family and friends were not particularly religious in their fate, the pressures became to much for her in the end. The big things can be discussed, as you do, but all the small things are difficult. My experiences are that the Jewish community as such, is very discriminating, but can also be very open at individual level. The community belive in their superiority, but as often is the case, it is not reflected on an individual level. For several reasons, I do not think that me and my girlfriend would have stayed together anyway, but it was interesting to see the group in work. I have also seen the working of Muslim groups of immigrants and they are equally discriminating, as well as Christian groups. Why it maybe is less common by Christian groups, is probably the very large number of people who are non-believers and non-religious, but still labelled as Christians. There are however many bad example of the workings of Christian groups and maybe the current US situation is one of them. In this particular discussion, I think that you used the the outburst of hate, without reason. In the same way that many women refer to sex discrimination, more as an argument to gain position, than describing the actual situation. It should not be needed, because what you are saying stands well on its own grounds. Hakan At 07:50 30/05/2004, you wrote: I am literally stunned by this outburst of hate. I am Jewish. Like 99% of Jews around the world, more than anything I want a true peace in the middle east. Jews are not some sort of monolithic force... or conspiracy... we are exactly like every other person on this earth. The very idea that there is one way to interpret the Talmud in itself shows this man's ignorance. The Talmud is simply a commentary on the Torah... there are literally hundreds of opinions on every topic, and none are right... It is a discussion of ideas that spans centuries. It is the debate of ideas that defines Jewish belief and law. There are extremist interpretations of every tradition... Muslim, Christian, Jewish. The interpretation of the Talmud that you refer to is an interpretation that is only believed by a few extremists, and is not part of modern Jewish understanding. One example of an extremist Christian belief that has a similar effect on world view, is the evangelical belief that only those who are born again can be saved. This tenant has the same polarizing effect as being chosen... Accum's razor might suggest that it is more likely that this line of thought could have affected our President (he is after all a practicing Born Again Evangelical Christian), rather then an obscure teaching from the Talmud. How exactly did you make the leap from Bush to Jew bashing amazing string of logic. The first step towards solving this world's problem, is for us all to look at each other with open eyes... realize that we are all human, and all faced with the same fears, and loves. We need to look in our enemies soul and realize that they are exactly like us. The first step to peace is empathy. - Original Message - From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Hubris; the unreasonable absorbtion with ones self often misrepresented as narcisism plagues Americans more than any other one single group anywhere. In a way it is not even their fault as they have been conditioned this way from birth; the thinking of the world in terms of America is the only way Americans CAN relate to the world as they are woefully ignorant (unlearned) of it other than in American terms. This latest outing of Bush et co's policies of not me first, me ONLY is merely an extrapolation of that. In ideology that only reflects the Talmudisation of America and it's pulpits as that is EXACTLY what the Talmud teaches, that all non-jews are not even to be considered as human, but are merely cattle, so America's me ONLY attitude towards the rest of the world is gain a reflection of that mindset. The Talmud teaches not a superior race ethic(!)it teaches an ONLY race one. It is little wonder that once discovered for it's true self there were born so-called persecutions and osterisations of the chosen. No one
[biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Dear Matt. History of the Khazars and what the Talmud says is not hate it is historical FACT. I truly am sympathetic to those who suffer needlessly, be they known as jews or Palestinians or others who do not deserve the crimes commited against them, but this does not mitigate FACTS and the FACTS are that those who have set themselves up as the leaders of and spokepeople for the jewish people are Talmudists of the extreme variety and it IS important that people understand the mindset that these criminals use as a justification for their crimes. You don't agree with them, denounce them publickly or appologize for them at every opportunity. Being jewish actually puts you in a greater responsibility about this than I or others who are not called jews, as you are the one being defrauded by this more than I. I KNOW it is a lie and that the teachings of the Talmud ARE NOT the torah or simply a ccommentary. Give me a break. Commentary is one hell of a stretch gettin to where it is ok for adult males to have sex with a three year old female as the hymen will grow back. That is one hell of a commentary all right.
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
There are many Jewish people who are active in bringing justice and fairness to our existence. Why Luc didn't bother to write about them? Alex Matt Golden wrote: I am literally stunned by this outburst of hate. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Message - From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Hubris; the unreasonable absorbtion with ones self often misrepresented as narcisism plagues Americans more than any other one single group anywhere. In a way it is not even their fault as they have been conditioned this way from birth; the thinking of the world in terms of America is the only way Americans CAN relate to the world as they are woefully ignorant (unlearned) of it other than in American terms. This latest outing of Bush et co's policies of not me first, me ONLY is merely an extrapolation of that. In ideology that only reflects the Talmudisation of America and it's pulpits as that is EXACTLY what the Talmud teaches, that all non-jews are not even to be considered as human, but are merely cattle, so America's me ONLY attitude towards the rest of the world is gain a reflection of that mindset. The Talmud teaches not a superior race ethic(!)it teaches an ONLY race one. It is little wonder that once discovered for it's true self there were born so-called persecutions and osterisations of the chosen. No one appreciates being categorised as cattle for the benefit of it's owners and masters. America DOES NOT speak for the world but it THINKS it does in it's delusion that they are the best, the greatest, the only truly capable form of political thought capable of deciding the fate of the world because they have more bombs. Might is right and truth be damned. International laws are for the subserviant not for the masters, just like Sharon and his lot in the political state of Israel.The two have worked, yes WORKED, hand in glove to see to it through numerous UN vetos, that neither would ever be held accountable to anyone who is not of the master category. Is it a piss-off ? At present the rest of the planet has had about enough of both of them and their slaughter of the poor and innocent for whatever trumped up reason they have their media shills push at us. Sooner or later the bully always gets his, and only then can the rest live in peace and cooperation, for as long as the instigators of hate and division for profit are running the show there will be no peace or ability for the haves to share with the havenots for the masters want it all for themselves. But then that is just my take on it. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Chris, Have you ever contemplated that this kind of thought are only supported by a maximum of 2% of the world population, if US are split in the middle on this issue. I and a majority of the people outside US, recent the US as a spokesman for the western civilization. Who are you, to do this kind of evaluation. It might be your personal thoughts, but you are quite alone. The ideals of all civilizations, not the practices, are equally noble. This if you look at what they say and not on what they do. The western civilization or indeed US, are in no way unique or better on this. Bush can be happy that he have no law license to loose for lying and obstructing. As I understand it, Clinton was never impeached, but it was close. -:) I do think that breaking International laws, with aggression etc. are somewhat serious things. Good intentions are not an excuse for breaking laws, if it would, the whole world fall in anarchy and violence and it would be able to defend. It will take a long time for US to recover its standing. Hakan At 14:47 28/05/2004, you wrote: Not most, some. And not me. This war is ugly and nasty and will be long and hard, but it is a civilizational struggle between god's alleged servants and the allegedly enlightened ones. You pick which is which. the only thing I know is that the two sides cannot coexist, and I want my side to win. Politically incorrect as it may be, I think that the ideals of western civilization (as opposed to its common practice) are superior to the ideals of fundamentalist radical islam (as they are now practiced in parts of the arab world). oh yeah, clinton was impeached (and lost his law license) for perjury and obstructing justice in a federal sexual harrassment case, not for getting serviced in the oval office. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, jtcava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hakan, Most of us in the USA hate what the current regime is doing and would like nothing better than to see them all hang for war crimes and treason. Regards, John Hakan Falk wrote: US is a funny nation, who seriously try to impeach a president for sexual reasons and admire a president who wage war and driving the US economy/debt to its worst levels since the depression
