Re: [Biofuel] reprocessing biodiesel
Hi Tom, Todd Todd, I reprocessed a 95L batch using 10% methanol and 3.5 g NaOH/liter as per JTF. I recall having the same question you pose re: the lye. I simply followed the instructions given at JtF and slightly more than a gallon of additional glycerine mix separated out. The reprocessed BD washed beautifully w/o emulsion and after three washings and a few days drying in the sun was crystal clear and ready to use. Good! You asked: Won't that cause washing problems because of the additional NaOH causing an emulsification? I wondered about that myself, so before reprocessing the entire batch I first washed the 1L BD produced by the quality test. It went well so I proceeded to wash the remaining 95L. (stir washing as per JtF) As I understand it, soap and/or unreacted glycerides are the cause of emulsions. Perhaps lye itself, in the absence of water, does not cause emulsions. Though a newbie myself, I thought that I would pass along my experience w. reprocessing. Maybe someone more knowledgable about the reaction can fill us in on the mystery of the excess lye. I'll try, but I'm no chemist. Lye makes soap out of glycerides and FFA, but once you've reprocessed the biodiesel there's not much glycerides and FFA left to make soap out of, nor emulsifers either, it's all gone with the extra glycerine mix that dropped out, along with most of the excess lye, if any. You can wash the rest of the lye out without problems with soap or emulsifiers. As indeed you did. ... Or something like that anyway... HTH Follow the directions at JtF and proceed with confidence. Thanks for your confidence. :-) Best wishes Keith Tom - Original Message - From: Todd Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: [Biofuel] reprocessing biodiesel I tested some biodiesel after processing it by treating it as new virgin oil and some additional glycerine dropped out. My questions are- Do I use 10% methanol and 3.5 g NaOH/liter per JTF to reprocess? Won't that cause washing problems because of the additional NaOH causing an emulsification? Thanks for helping a newbie, Todd ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] reprocessing biodiesel
I tested some biodiesel after processing it by treating it as new virgin oil and some additional glycerine dropped out. My questions are- Do I use 10% methanol and 3.5 g NaOH/liter per JTF to reprocess? Won't that cause washing problems because of the additional NaOH causing an emulsification? Thanks for helping a newbie, Todd ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] reprocessing biodiesel
Todd, I reprocessed a 95L batch using 10% methanol and 3.5 g NaOH/liter as per JTF. I recall having the same question you pose re: the lye. I simply followed the instructions given at JtF and slightly more than a gallon of additional glycerine mix separated out. The reprocessed BD washed beautifully w/o emulsion and after three washings and a few days drying in the sun was crystal clear and ready to use. You asked: Won't that cause washing problems because of the additional NaOH causing an emulsification? I wondered about that myself, so before reprocessing the entire batch I first washed the 1L BD produced by the quality test. It went well so I proceeded to wash the remaining 95L. (stir washing as per JtF) As I understand it, soap and/or unreacted glycerides are the cause of emulsions. Perhaps lye itself, in the absence of water, does not cause emulsions. Though a newbie myself, I thought that I would pass along my experience w. reprocessing. Maybe someone more knowledgable about the reaction can fill us in on the mystery of the excess lye. Follow the directions at JtF and proceed with confidence. Tom - Original Message - From: Todd Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: [Biofuel] reprocessing biodiesel I tested some biodiesel after processing it by treating it as new virgin oil and some additional glycerine dropped out. My questions are- Do I use 10% methanol and 3.5 g NaOH/liter per JTF to reprocess? Won't that cause washing problems because of the additional NaOH causing an emulsification? Thanks for helping a newbie, Todd ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Reprocessing Biodiesel
why ? just wash it Neil -Original Message-From: Richard Keith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, 11 June 2005 2:41 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] Reprocessing Biodiesel Hi All, I posed this question back on the 5th and didn't get any responses. I was hoping someone out there would have some idea on how to proceed. I've been pouring all the little bits of biodiesel and soap or water into a 55 gallon drum. The soap and water have settled to the bottom and there is several gallons of biodiesel floating on top. The bioD looks pretty good but I'd feel better if it was reprocessed. I can dewater it with heat but then I will need to figure out how much methanol and lye to use for reprocessing. Does anyone have any idea how to figure the amount of each to use? Thanks -Richard This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal - For more information please visit www.marshalsoftware.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Reprocessing Biodiesel
Richard, No reprocessing should be necessary. If all the little bits came from skimmings from wash stages or accumulations from base reactions then they've already been processed suffciently. Take a sample and wash it. If it separates quickly and cleanly there should be no reason to be concerned. Todd Swearingen Richard Keith wrote: Hi All, I posed this question back on the 5th and didn't get any responses. I was hoping someone out there would have some idea on how to proceed. I've been pouring all the little bits of biodiesel and soap or water into a 55 gallon drum. The soap and water have settled to the bottom and there is several gallons of biodiesel floating on top. The bioD looks pretty good but I'd feel better if it was reprocessed. I can dewater it with heat but then I will need to figure out how much methanol and lye to use for reprocessing. Does anyone have any idea how to figure the amount of each to use? Thanks -Richard ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Reprocessing Biodiesel
Hi All, I posed this question back on the 5th and didn't get any responses. I was hoping someone out there would have some idea on how to proceed. I've been pouring all the little bits of biodiesel and soap or water into a 55 gallon drum. The soap and water have settled to the bottom and there is several gallons of biodiesel floating on top. The bioD looks pretty good but I'd feel better if it was reprocessed. I can dewater it with heat but then I will need to figure out how much methanol and lye to use for reprocessing. Does anyone have any idea how to figure the amount of each to use? Thanks -Richard ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[biofuel] reprocessing biodiesel
Here are the results of my other reprocessing tests. 1st - I used 3.5g lye and 200 ml Methanol - the biodiesel cleared and another 80-100 ml of glycerol settled out. The biodiesel on top has the appearance of clarity , but it also looked like it has a bit of methanol still left in that layer, as it appeared swirly (you know like when salt water and freh water mix and it is kind of like a heat mirage?) washing was terrible - just went totally cloudy and mayonaisse. 2nd - I tried it again with 50 ml methanol and 1g lye - some glycerol seperated out, but the biodiesel on top was still cloudy. 3rd - Used 100 ml methanol and 2g lye. Similar to previous, some glycerol settling out (roughly double the amount of the 50ml/1g test as you might expect), but still cloudy on top. So perhaps I need to use an amout in between 100ml/2g and 200ml/3.5 g? But I tried to process a new batch of the same oil with 250ml methanol and 7g lye - I got strong clear seperation of biodiesel/glycerine, but still cloudy on top. Argghhh. Keith, I am still waiting for the water to drop out of the oil that I washed - it is well mixed in there and drying only slowly, once it does I will test it. Is it normal for the water to get so hung up? Thanks for any pointers. jk Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
