Re: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage
If the energy obtained from a given mass of hydrogen is 100% - the energy taken to make that hydrogen by hydrolysis is 130% It then takes another 30% to compress it for portability Making it, in all, in all 160% energy negative So much for the energy economy - unless you have access to unlimited hydro-electric power Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage
Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They address the option of using a hydrocarbon dino-fuel for powering a fuel cell, however I don't think they realize that, at current technology levels, liquid hydrogen is extremely hard to transport. Hydrogen is also simply an energy transfer medium - it takes 'x' units of energy to produce the hydrogen from water, and the hydrogen supplies 'x' units of energy - assuming 100% efficiency. One answer to be considered is using a hydrocarbon that can both be produced easily, and stored easily. Methane comes to mind, easily produced from biomass, otherwise it's too early in the morning for me to think to an excess. Fossil fuels it'll be, methinks. I have to laugh every time I see the FREE ENERGY CAR that gives you complete and total plans to convert your old gas hog to burn hydrogen, you have a couple of batteries running hydrolysis cells in the trunk, the engine burns the hydrogen and the alternator supplies power to the cells. The funny thing is that this guy claims 100% efficiency. I guess I don't need to mention that the guy selling this idea is not rich, has never produced a working model, probably never graduated 9th grade, and sings in a local band somewhere on the west coast [USA] Hell, I wouldn't mind singing in a local band somewhere on the west coast. :-) --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sounds too good to be true -- an automotive power If it sounds that way it usually is that way. Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage
George Bush says it will work!! He uses fuzzy math!! Greg -- Original Message -- From: Biofuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:36:52 +0100 htmlbody tt If the energy obtained from a given mass of hydrogen is 100% -BR the energy taken to make that hydrogen by hydrolysis is 130%BR It then takes another 30% to compress it for portabilityBR Making it, in all, in all 160% energy negativeBR BR So much for the energy economy - unless you have access to unlimitedBR hydro-electric powerBR BR /tt br tt Biofuel at Journey to Forever:BR a href=http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html;http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html/aBR Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. BR To unsubscribe, send an email to:BR [EMAIL PROTECTED]/tt br br ttYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the a href=http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/;Yahoo! Terms of Service/a./tt /br /body/html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage
hydrolyser can be batch and thus self pressurizing. Kirk -Original Message- From: Biofuels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 7:37 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage If the energy obtained from a given mass of hydrogen is 100% - the energy taken to make that hydrogen by hydrolysis is 130% It then takes another 30% to compress it for portability Making it, in all, in all 160% energy negative So much for the energy economy - unless you have access to unlimited hydro-electric power Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.264 / Virus Database: 136 - Release Date: 7/2/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage
There are a variety of ways to produce hydrogen. Although the fundamental energy equations still apply, energy can be obtained from as you say hydroelectric, solar, geothermal, and algae. I think Iceland is big on this. Also compression isn't the only way to store the hydrogen. THEY'RE using hydrogen absorbing alloys and the like. I like hydrogen!!! Mike -Original Message- From: Trudy Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 7:07 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage George Bush says it will work!! He uses fuzzy math!! Greg -- Original Message -- From: Biofuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:36:52 +0100 htmlbody tt If the energy obtained from a given mass of hydrogen is 100% -BR the energy taken to make that hydrogen by hydrolysis is 130%BR It then takes another 30% to compress it for portabilityBR Making it, in all, in all 160% energy negativeBR BR So much for the energy economy - unless you have access to unlimitedBR hydro-electric powerBR BR /tt br tt Biofuel at Journey to Forever:BR a href=http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html;http://journeytofo rever.org/biofuel.html/aBR Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. BR To unsubscribe, send an email to:BR [EMAIL PROTECTED]/tt br br ttYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the a href=http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/;Yahoo! Terms of Service/a./tt /br /body/html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage
I like the idea of hydrogen, too, but take a look at www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/sustain.htm if you want to see what the disadvantages are. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage
They address the option of using a hydrocarbon dino-fuel for powering a fuel cell, however I don't think they realize that, at current technology levels, liquid hydrogen is extremely hard to transport. Hydrogen is also simply an energy transfer medium - it takes 'x' units of energy to produce the hydrogen from water, and the hydrogen supplies 'x' units of energy - assuming 100% efficiency. One answer to be considered is using a hydrocarbon that can both be produced easily, and stored easily. Methane comes to mind, easily produced from biomass, otherwise it's too early in the morning for me to think to an excess. I have to laugh every time I see the FREE ENERGY CAR that gives you complete and total plans to convert your old gas hog to burn hydrogen, you have a couple of batteries running hydrolysis cells in the trunk, the engine burns the hydrogen and the alternator supplies power to the cells. The funny thing is that this guy claims 100% efficiency. I guess I don't need to mention that the guy selling this idea is not rich, has never produced a working model, probably never graduated 9th grade, and sings in a local band somewhere on the west coast [USA] --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sounds too good to be true -- an automotive power source that efficiently converts a limitless supply of chemical energy into electricity without producing smog-causing emissions. But if we want fuel cells to run cleanly, why power them with polluting fossil fuels? The answer to that question reveals the most significant challenge facing fuel cell vehicles today. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
