Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Appal Energy wrote: >>I haven't looked at a comparison much, myself. I'm building a >>continuous processor more because I want to than for any other reason. > > > Well, when you get the thing duct taped together, installed in an explosion > proof bunker and ready to test, we ought to run some side by sides, cradle > to grave. Nah, duct tape leaks too much. Silicone and epoxy are better options. Duct tape, safety wire, epoxy, silicone, and chewing gum do figure prominently in a lot of my projects, though. And the need for fire supression had crossed my mind. The first precaution there is to have adequate ventilation so that flamable vapors don't build up to explosive levels. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
> I haven't looked at a comparison much, myself. I'm building a > continuous processor more because I want to than for any other reason. Well, when you get the thing duct taped together, installed in an explosion proof bunker and ready to test, we ought to run some side by sides, cradle to grave. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Alan Petrillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 1:37 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans > Hello, Todd. > > Appal Energy wrote: > > Alan, > > > > Call me a dinosaur, or just one who has narrowed his focus to the near > > exclusion of continuous processing, but what is OFM? > > Oh, sorry. Oscillatory Flow Mixer. > > http://www.cheng.cam.ac.uk/groups/polymer/OFM/index.html > > Basically, it's an easy way to mix liquids moving through a pipe. > > > Never been overly thrilled with CP, unless it's cold processing. But then > > that's the old soap maker in me. > > It's right up there with hard milling. :-) > > > Just seems to me that if one has to battle "in transit residence times," or > > better still high temperature and pressure in order to get a quality > > finished product, then it is far simpler to go with batch processing of > > similar capacity. > > Residence times are easy to deal with. It's that high pressure stuff > that's difficult. That's why I don't bother with it. To much effort > for a hobbiest like myself. > > > I have to ask, partly because I've not fixated on CP and in all do > > seriousness, who has done any side by side examination of system sizes, > > production volume, energy efficiency, quality and cost between the two types > > of processing systems? > > I haven't looked at a comparison much, myself. I'm building a > continuous processor more because I want to than for any other reason. > > > High temp and pressure for transient fluids don't appear to be a simple > > exercise in fall canning conducted in the summer kitchen. > > Definitely not. > > > AP > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Hello Andreas Thanks for the tif's - I hope to work on them tonight. >Keith, Thomas,... > >one of the main ideas behind the countercurrent contiuous reactor is to use >extraction instead of evaporization to recover the alcohol. To do so we >probably need some data about solubility (e.g. Methanol in WVO / >Biodiesel,...). > >Does anyone know where to get those data? I found you can blend up to 21% absolute ethanol with virgin canola and it stays mixed, and 5% water content in the ethanol (as per ACREVO) didn't make much if any difference. Only up to 13% absolute methanol, by contrast. Not sure about biodiesel, but the methanol prefers the glycerine to the biodiesel. Best Keith >Andreas Ohnsorge > >CSC Ploenzke AG >Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 >65189 Wiesbaden >Germany >Phone: +49.611.142.20020 >Fax: +49.611.142.980028 >Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 >e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Internet: http://www.de.csc.com > >100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz >in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. > > >- >--- > >This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please >delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in >delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to >bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written >agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail >for such purpose. >- >--- > > > > > > > Keith Addison > > biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > @journeytoforeve cc: > > r.org> Subject: Re: >[biofuel] continuous process plans > > > > 15.08.2003 23:19 > > Please respond > > to biofuel > > > > > > > > > >Hello Andreas, Tomas and all > > >Tomas, > > > >I am currently on some similar route - I had some experience with batch > >process and am about to construct a continuous processor following a >Patent > >from Metallgesellschaft out of 1985. Could explain a bit the basis of your > >process / could you give me your email address I really would like to get > >in contact with you and discuss the approaches... > > > >How do you think? > >I think it would be much better if you discussed it on-list instead >of privately, so that everyone could share in and hopefully >contribute to the discussion. > >Best wishes > >Keith Addison >Journey to Forever > > > > >Andreas Ohnsorge > > > >CSC Ploenzke AG > >Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 > >65189 Wiesbaden > >Germany > >Phone: +49.611.142.20020 > >Fax: +49.611.142.980028 > >Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 > >e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Internet: http://www.de.csc.com > > > >100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz > >in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. > > > > > >- > >--- > > > >This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please > >delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in > >delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to > >bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit >written > >agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail > >for such purpose. > >- > >--- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johnsson Tomas > > > > >"'biofuel@yahoogroups.com'" > > > > @pohjola.fi> cc: > > > > Subject: [biofuel] > >continuous process plans > > 15.08.2003 09:10 > > > > Please respond > > > > to biofuel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello All, > > > >During long nights of batch processing BD the idea of building a >continuous > >process has been born. The first ideas is to make a stan
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Keith, Thomas,... one of the main ideas behind the countercurrent contiuous reactor is to use extraction instead of evaporization to recover the alcohol. To do so we probably need some data about solubility (e.g. Methanol in WVO / Biodiesel,...). Does anyone know where to get those data? Andreas Ohnsorge CSC Ploenzke AG Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.20020 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.de.csc.com 100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Keith Addison Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans 15.08.2003 23:19 Please respond to biofuel Hello Andreas, Tomas and all >Tomas, > >I am currently on some similar route - I had some experience with batch >process and am about to construct a continuous processor following a Patent >from Metallgesellschaft out of 1985. Could explain a bit the basis of your >process / could you give me your email address I really would like to get >in contact with you and discuss the approaches... > >How do you think? I think it would be much better if you discussed it on-list instead of privately, so that everyone could share in and hopefully contribute to the discussion. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever > >Andreas Ohnsorge > >CSC Ploenzke AG >Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 >65189 Wiesbaden >Germany >Phone: +49.611.142.20020 >Fax: +49.611.142.980028 >Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 >e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Internet: http://www.de.csc.com > >100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz >in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. > > >- >--- > >This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please >delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in >delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to >bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written >agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail >for such purpose. >- >--- > > > > > > > Johnsson Tomas > > "'biofuel@yahoogroups.com'" > > @pohjola.fi> cc: > > Subject: [biofuel] >continuous process plans > 15.08.2003 09:10 > > Please respond > > to biofuel > > > > > > > > > >Hello All, > >During long nights of batch processing BD the idea of building a continuous >process has been born. The first ideas is to make a standing >oscilatorprocessor. The feeding of the catalyt and the oil we are planning >to do with hose pumps. The pumps by it self has a 1% accuracy and by >keeping >the oil at same temperature before feeding it throu
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Hello, Todd. Appal Energy wrote: > Alan, > > Call me a dinosaur, or just one who has narrowed his focus to the near > exclusion of continuous processing, but what is OFM? Oh, sorry. Oscillatory Flow Mixer. http://www.cheng.cam.ac.uk/groups/polymer/OFM/index.html Basically, it's an easy way to mix liquids moving through a pipe. > Never been overly thrilled with CP, unless it's cold processing. But then > that's the old soap maker in me. It's right up there with hard milling. :-) > Just seems to me that if one has to battle "in transit residence times," or > better still high temperature and pressure in order to get a quality > finished product, then it is far simpler to go with batch processing of > similar capacity. Residence times are easy to deal with. It's that high pressure stuff that's difficult. That's why I don't bother with it. To much effort for a hobbiest like myself. > I have to ask, partly because I've not fixated on CP and in all do > seriousness, who has done any side by side examination of system sizes, > production volume, energy efficiency, quality and cost between the two types > of processing systems? I haven't looked at a comparison much, myself. I'm building a continuous processor more because I want to than for any other reason. > High temp and pressure for transient fluids don't appear to be a simple > exercise in fall canning conducted in the summer kitchen. Definitely not. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Alan, Call me a dinosaur, or just one who has narrowed his focus to the near exclusion of continuous processing, but what is OFM? Never been overly thrilled with CP, unless it's cold processing. But then that's the old soap maker in me. Just seems to me that if one has to battle "in transit residence times," or better still high temperature and pressure in order to get a quality finished product, then it is far simpler to go with batch processing of similar capacity. I have to ask, partly because I've not fixated on CP and in all do seriousness, who has done any side by side examination of system sizes, production volume, energy efficiency, quality and cost between the two types of processing systems? High temp and pressure for transient fluids don't appear to be a simple exercise in fall canning conducted in the summer kitchen. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Alan Petrillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans > Appal Energy wrote: > >>>A major disadvantage, I think, would be that continuous processors > >>>are not suitable for two-stage processes, is that right? > >> > >>Well, yes and no. What you have to do, effectively, is to build two > >>processors. One for the acid stage and a second one for the base stage. > > > > > > Well, yes and no. You only have to build or install "two" processors if the > > need is to improve the production volume. Otherwise the same processor can > > be used on the first day for the acid stage and the second day for the base > > side - ~3.5 cycles per week, opposed to ~7 cycles per week running straight > > base. > > Good point. Cycle it through the acid stage and then into a > holding/settling tank, then cycle it through again for the base stage. > Yes, with a little extra plumbing, that'd be doable. It wouldn't be > truly "continuous", but so what? That way you don't have to build a > second OFM. > > Come to think of it, isn't this what the people building the automatic > single tank processors are doing, basically? That way you don't have to > build an OFM at all, just use a tank. > > Hmmm... > > > AP > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] continuous process plans
>Yup. >And the files section is shut of for users to use? > >Johs. Hi Johs No, it's not shut off. Users can access it and download whatever they might find there, FWIW, but they can't upload. And, as explained, only list members can access it at all now, and only when logged in at Yahoo. Best Keith > > -Original Message- > > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 18. august 2003 22:40 > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] continuous process plans > > > > Hi Johs > > > > >Upload it to the files section? > > > > Trouble is Yahoo's just changed the rules, and Files sections are now > > only accessible to list members - okay, so we're all list members > > here, but you'd have to sign in at Yahoo first with username and ID, > > which quite a number of email subscription members have had problems > > with. Then they complain to me, and I really don't have the time to > > help people struggle with Yahoo. (I speak from experience.) I reckon > > the Files section's virtually useless now. > > > > I might be able to arrange something better, if Andreas emails me > > with details of the tif file. > > > > Best > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: 18. august 2003 21:32 > > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans > > > > > > > > >Andrew, > > > > > > > > > >it seems I cannot attach anything to my emails. Would you like to > > >give me > > > > >your email-address that I can send you the patent as a tif-file? > > > > > > > > The list doesn't accept attachments, as an essential anti-virus > > > > measure. Please contact me off-list about this, I can probably > > > > arrange something suitable. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] continuous process plans
>Keith, > >I'd like to do so - what is the address I should send the file to? > > > >Andreas Ohnsorge Hi Andreas Send it straight to me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Keith >CSC Ploenzke AG >Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 >65189 Wiesbaden >Germany >Phone: +49.611.142.20020 >Fax: +49.611.142.980028 >Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 >e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Internet: http://www.de.csc.com > >100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz >in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. > > Keith Addison > > biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > @journeytoforeve cc: > > r.org> Subject: RE: >[biofuel] continuous process plans > > > > 18.08.2003 22:39 > > Please respond > > to biofuel > > > > > > > > > >Hi Johs > > >Upload it to the files section? > >Trouble is Yahoo's just changed the rules, and Files sections are now >only accessible to list members - okay, so we're all list members >here, but you'd have to sign in at Yahoo first with username and ID, >which quite a number of email subscription members have had problems >with. Then they complain to me, and I really don't have the time to >help people struggle with Yahoo. (I speak from experience.) I reckon >the Files section's virtually useless now. > >I might be able to arrange something better, if Andreas emails me >with details of the tif file. > >Best > >Keith > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: 18. august 2003 21:32 > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans > > > > > > >Andrew, > > > > > > > >it seems I cannot attach anything to my emails. Would you like to > >give me > > > >your email-address that I can send you the patent as a tif-file? > > > > > > The list doesn't accept attachments, as an essential anti-virus > > > measure. Please contact me off-list about this, I can probably > > > arrange something suitable. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Appal Energy wrote: >>>A major disadvantage, I think, would be that continuous processors >>>are not suitable for two-stage processes, is that right? >> >>Well, yes and no. What you have to do, effectively, is to build two >>processors. One for the acid stage and a second one for the base stage. > > > Well, yes and no. You only have to build or install "two" processors if the > need is to improve the production volume. Otherwise the same processor can > be used on the first day for the acid stage and the second day for the base > side - ~3.5 cycles per week, opposed to ~7 cycles per week running straight > base. Good point. Cycle it through the acid stage and then into a holding/settling tank, then cycle it through again for the base stage. Yes, with a little extra plumbing, that'd be doable. It wouldn't be truly "continuous", but so what? That way you don't have to build a second OFM. Come to think of it, isn't this what the people building the automatic single tank processors are doing, basically? That way you don't have to build an OFM at all, just use a tank. Hmmm... AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Yup. And the files section is shut of for users to use? Johs. > -Original Message- > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 18. august 2003 22:40 > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [biofuel] continuous process plans > > Hi Johs > > >Upload it to the files section? > > Trouble is Yahoo's just changed the rules, and Files sections are now > only accessible to list members - okay, so we're all list members > here, but you'd have to sign in at Yahoo first with username and ID, > which quite a number of email subscription members have had problems > with. Then they complain to me, and I really don't have the time to > help people struggle with Yahoo. (I speak from experience.) I reckon > the Files section's virtually useless now. > > I might be able to arrange something better, if Andreas emails me > with details of the tif file. > > Best > > Keith > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: 18. august 2003 21:32 > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans > > > > > > >Andrew, > > > > > > > >it seems I cannot attach anything to my emails. Would you like to > >give me > > > >your email-address that I can send you the patent as a tif-file? > > > > > > The list doesn't accept attachments, as an essential anti-virus > > > measure. Please contact me off-list about this, I can probably > > > arrange something suitable. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
> > A major disadvantage, I think, would be that continuous processors > > are not suitable for two-stage processes, is that right? > > Well, yes and no. What you have to do, effectively, is to build two > processors. One for the acid stage and a second one for the base stage. Well, yes and no. You only have to build or install "two" processors if the need is to improve the production volume. Otherwise the same processor can be used on the first day for the acid stage and the second day for the base side - ~3.5 cycles per week, opposed to ~7 cycles per week running straight base. Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Keith, I'd like to do so - what is the address I should send the file to? Andreas Ohnsorge CSC Ploenzke AG Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.20020 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.de.csc.com 100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Keith Addison Subject: RE: [biofuel] continuous process plans 18.08.2003 22:39 Please respond to biofuel Hi Johs >Upload it to the files section? Trouble is Yahoo's just changed the rules, and Files sections are now only accessible to list members - okay, so we're all list members here, but you'd have to sign in at Yahoo first with username and ID, which quite a number of email subscription members have had problems with. Then they complain to me, and I really don't have the time to help people struggle with Yahoo. (I speak from experience.) I reckon the Files section's virtually useless now. I might be able to arrange something better, if Andreas emails me with details of the tif file. Best Keith > > -Original Message- > > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 18. august 2003 21:32 > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans > > > > >Andrew, > > > > > >it seems I cannot attach anything to my emails. Would you like to >give me > > >your email-address that I can send you the patent as a tif-file? > > > > The list doesn't accept attachments, as an essential anti-virus > > measure. Please contact me off-list about this, I can probably > > arrange something suitable. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
J Allen wrote: > Guy you can go through a company call micro motion they make pump and > meters that once are set they will deliver the amount you want and need. > Jim Allen I found Micro Motion, as a subsidiary of Emerson Process, but all I saw there was meters, not pumps. Do you have a link to more of their products? AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Keith Addison wrote: > Hello Andreas, Tomas >> - The reactor size can be much smaller (only a couple of litres >>instead of 55 gallons...) and thus better fits in the basement of my >>house... > > > Yes, an advantage perhaps, depending on circumstances. > > A major disadvantage, I think, would be that continuous processors > are not suitable for two-stage processes, is that right? Well, yes and no. What you have to do, effectively, is to build two processors. One for the acid stage and a second one for the base stage. In the current design of my partially built continuous processor I intended to automate the base/base two stage method. My original intent was to run the first stage through an OFM, then through a coalescer/separator, and then into a second OFM for the second stage. I immagine the acid/base process could be run the same way, omitting the coalescer/separator in the middle. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Hi Johs >Upload it to the files section? Trouble is Yahoo's just changed the rules, and Files sections are now only accessible to list members - okay, so we're all list members here, but you'd have to sign in at Yahoo first with username and ID, which quite a number of email subscription members have had problems with. Then they complain to me, and I really don't have the time to help people struggle with Yahoo. (I speak from experience.) I reckon the Files section's virtually useless now. I might be able to arrange something better, if Andreas emails me with details of the tif file. Best Keith > > -Original Message- > > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 18. august 2003 21:32 > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans > > > > >Andrew, > > > > > >it seems I cannot attach anything to my emails. Would you like to >give me > > >your email-address that I can send you the patent as a tif-file? > > > > The list doesn't accept attachments, as an essential anti-virus > > measure. Please contact me off-list about this, I can probably > > arrange something suitable. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Upload it to the files section? > -Original Message- > From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 18. august 2003 21:32 > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans > > >Andrew, > > > >it seems I cannot attach anything to my emails. Would you like to give me > >your email-address that I can send you the patent as a tif-file? > > The list doesn't accept attachments, as an essential anti-virus > measure. Please contact me off-list about this, I can probably > arrange something suitable. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Hello Andreas, Tomas >Keith, Thomas, > >I mentioned the continuous approach in a comment beginning of July (see >attached email conversation) and out of your response (Keith) I got the >impression that this is not very interesting for the forum. May be this is >a misunderstanding and I would like to be convinced that it is. I think it might be a double misunderstanding. What I disagreed with was your statement that batch-type processors are not suitable for equilibrium-type reactions, which is clearly untrue, as simple batch-type processors are proven to be fully capable of producing biodiesel that is well within the various national standards specifications. I would also not agree that the continuous, pipe-type processor would produce better results. But I didn't say that it would produce worse results, nor that it was of no interest here. Obviously there is interest here, and I did say that several people were working with this approach successfully. I also said this: >confident that they'll deliver the goods in good order in due >course. I know there's also been much ado about continuous reactors >at another forum, FWIW, but I haven't taken any notice, not very >interested. It's that particular forum and what goes on there that fail to interest me, not the continuous processors. Sorry if you found that confusing. I'm a bit puzzled by the sequence of previous messages in your post, it seems to be a combination of messages from several threads, with some preceding messages missing, such as the one in which you made the statement about batch-type processors, though my reply to it is there. So I'll post both messages again here now to clear up any confusion: >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel reaction / reactor type > >>Reading the reasoning behind the two stage process approach it seems to me >>that the benefit lies in the two different equilibrium points (first stage >>mass conversion to biodiesel and second stage the -more or less - 100% >>completion of that conversion). Am I right so far? >> >>If this is correct then I do remember my university time that there were >>two different types of reactors to be used: The batch stirred vessel type >>that is usually described here and the pipe-type where the reactants flow >>through a pipe, ususally in different directions. If I remember right the >>vessel is not good for beeing used in equilibrium state reactions (like >>assumed here) - it should be preferred for quick reactions that easily >>reach the 100% end. >> >>Taking this into account the better reactor type for our biodiesel rection >>would be the pipe. Does anyone have any experience in using a pipe-type >>reactor for producing biodiesel? I think it could easily be built using >>plastic waste water pipes filles with glas or other inert media and mixed >>with pulse-pumps (membrane type for example). It would also have the >>advantage of continuous production >> >>Any thoughts about this approach? >> >>Andreas Ohnsorge > > >Hello Andreas > >I think this is the wrong way round: > >>... (first stage >>mass conversion to biodiesel and second stage the -more or less - 100% >>completion of that conversion). > >It's in the second stage that there's mass conversion to biodiesel. >Of course 100% completion is not ever achieved. The goal is to >arrive within the limitations set by the various international >standards, and the processes available to us now are proven to be >more than capable of achieving that. > >I think your conclusions about different types of reactors might >apply in laboratory conditions where accurate research results are >important, or in industry at large scale perhaps, but for >homebrewers and small-scale local producers at least, and probably >well beyond that, there isn't any need: the batch-type stirred and >heated processors now in wide use are cheap, simple and effective. > >FYI, there's a continuous reactor design here: >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#continuous > >Some people we know are working successfully with small-scale >continuous designs but they're not ready to talk about it yet. >Judging by their track record I'd be confident that they'll deliver >the goods in good order in due course. I know there's also been much >ado about continuous reactors at another forum, FWIW, but I haven't >taken any notice, not very interested. > >Best wishes > >Keith Ends previous posts. Andreas, first, it's now clear that your comment on the two stage process refers to the base-base two-stage process: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleks.html I'd assumed you meant the acid-base process: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Anyway, I hope the processors bit is cleared up now - I'm not at all against continuous processors, but I won't agree that they're more suitable or that batch processors can't do the job. >So - let's >try it again (and apologies already now for the lengthy email that's to >come: >
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
>Andrew, > >it seems I cannot attach anything to my emails. Would you like to give me >your email-address that I can send you the patent as a tif-file? The list doesn't accept attachments, as an essential anti-virus measure. Please contact me off-list about this, I can probably arrange something suitable. Best wishes Keith >Dr. Andreas Ohnsorge Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Guy you can go through a company call micro motion they make pump and meters that once are set they will deliver the amount you want and need. Jim Allen Andreas W Ohnsorge wrote: > > Alan, > > interesting ideas - I am intending to use a used magnetic driven measuring > pump (I found a couple of them in ebay) without the nonreturn valve in it. > Usually they cost around 50 - 100 Euros (= Dollars?) in Germany. With the > membrane they work like a piston driven oscillator. You can feed the > reactor with another measuring pump that works in the normal way and is > installed in line with the oscillator... > > What do you think? > > Andreas Ohnsorge > > CSC Ploenzke AG > Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 > 65189 Wiesbaden > Germany > Phone: +49.611.142.20020 > Fax: +49.611.142.980028 > Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 > e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Internet: http://www.de.csc.com > > 100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz > in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. > > > > > This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please > delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in > delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to > bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit > written > agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail > for such purpose. > > > > > > > > > Alan > Petrillo > > >biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > @baylink.com> > cc: > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] > continuous process plans > 18.08.2003 > 09:18 > > > Please > respond > > > to > biofuel > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andreas W Ohnsorge wrote: > > > >Keith wrote: > > FYI, there's a continuous reactor design here: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#continuous > > > > Some people we know are working successfully with small-scale > > continuous designs but they're not ready to talk about it yet. > > Judging by their track record I'd be confident that they'll deliver > > the goods in good order in due course. I know there's also been much > > ado about continuous reactors at another forum, FWIW, but I haven't > > taken any notice, not very interested. > > The OFM guys built their mixers, IMO, upside down with the pistons on > the bottom and the pipes on top. > > When I designed the still partially built continuous processor that is > sitting in boxes in my garage until I get to it again, I designed my > OFMs with the pipes down in a heated water bath and the pistons on top. > Building the baffle assemblies for the pipes has proven to be one of > the exciting parts. Even more exciting has been building the pistons > and oscilatory drives. I'm trying to find access to a machine shop that > won't cost me an arm and both legs to see what I can fabricate. Unless > I get some better ideas first. > > Now that it looks like I may actually need the thing I might actually > finish building it. > > > AP > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Alan, interesting ideas - I am intending to use a used magnetic driven measuring pump (I found a couple of them in ebay) without the nonreturn valve in it. Usually they cost around 50 - 100 Euros (= Dollars?) in Germany. With the membrane they work like a piston driven oscillator. You can feed the reactor with another measuring pump that works in the normal way and is installed in line with the oscillator... What do you think? Andreas Ohnsorge CSC Ploenzke AG Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.20020 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.de.csc.com 100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Alan Petrillo cc: Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans 18.08.2003 09:18 Please respond to biofuel Andreas W Ohnsorge wrote: > >Keith wrote: > FYI, there's a continuous reactor design here: > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#continuous > > Some people we know are working successfully with small-scale > continuous designs but they're not ready to talk about it yet. > Judging by their track record I'd be confident that they'll deliver > the goods in good order in due course. I know there's also been much > ado about continuous reactors at another forum, FWIW, but I haven't > taken any notice, not very interested. The OFM guys built their mixers, IMO, upside down with the pistons on the bottom and the pipes on top. When I designed the still partially built continuous processor that is sitting in boxes in my garage until I get to it again, I designed my OFMs with the pipes down in a heated water bath and the pistons on top. Building the baffle assemblies for the pipes has proven to be one of the exciting parts. Even more exciting has been building the pistons and oscilatory drives. I'm trying to find access to a machine shop that won't cost me an arm and both legs to see what I can fabricate. Unless I get some better ideas first. Now that it looks like I may actually need the thing I might actually finish building it. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Andreas W Ohnsorge wrote: > >Keith wrote: > FYI, there's a continuous reactor design here: > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#continuous > > Some people we know are working successfully with small-scale > continuous designs but they're not ready to talk about it yet. > Judging by their track record I'd be confident that they'll deliver > the goods in good order in due course. I know there's also been much > ado about continuous reactors at another forum, FWIW, but I haven't > taken any notice, not very interested. The OFM guys built their mixers, IMO, upside down with the pistons on the bottom and the pipes on top. When I designed the still partially built continuous processor that is sitting in boxes in my garage until I get to it again, I designed my OFMs with the pipes down in a heated water bath and the pistons on top. Building the baffle assemblies for the pipes has proven to be one of the exciting parts. Even more exciting has been building the pistons and oscilatory drives. I'm trying to find access to a machine shop that won't cost me an arm and both legs to see what I can fabricate. Unless I get some better ideas first. Now that it looks like I may actually need the thing I might actually finish building it. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Andrew, it seems I cannot attach anything to my emails. Would you like to give me your email-address that I can send you the patent as a tif-file? Dr. Andreas Ohnsorge CSC Ploenzke AG Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.20020 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.de.csc.com 100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Andrew Lowe To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: 17.08.2003 08:22 Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans Please respond to biofuel Andreas W Ohnsorge wrote: > Tomas, > > I am currently on some similar route - I had some experience with batch > process and am about to construct a continuous processor following a Patent > from Metallgesellschaft out of 1985. Could explain a bit the basis of your Could we please have some more info on this patent? Is it German/US/British/Japanese/??? and do you have a number? Regards, Andrew [SNIP] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Andrew, the tif-file of the patent is here: (See attached file: Patent-MG.tif) If you need some explanations please let me know (it is in German...) Dr. Andreas Ohnsorge CSC Ploenzke AG Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.20020 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.de.csc.com 100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Andrew Lowe To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: 17.08.2003 08:22 Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans Please respond to biofuel Andreas W Ohnsorge wrote: > Tomas, > > I am currently on some similar route - I had some experience with batch > process and am about to construct a continuous processor following a Patent > from Metallgesellschaft out of 1985. Could explain a bit the basis of your Could we please have some more info on this patent? Is it German/US/British/Japanese/??? and do you have a number? Regards, Andrew [SNIP] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
ood for beeing used in equilibrium state reactions (like >assumed here) - it should be preferred for quick reactions that easily >reach the 100% end. > >Taking this into account the better reactor type for our biodiesel rection >would be the pipe. Does anyone have any experience in using a pipe-type >reactor for producing biodiesel? I think it could easily be built using >plastic waste water pipes filles with glas or other inert media and mixed >with pulse-pumps (membrane type for example). It would also have the >advantage of continuous production > >Any thoughts about this approach? > > > >Andreas Ohnsorge Hello Andreas I think this is the wrong way round: >... (first stage >mass conversion to biodiesel and second stage the -more or less - 100% >completion of that conversion). It's in the second stage that there's mass conversion to biodiesel. Of course 100% completion is not ever achieved. The goal is to arrive within the limitations set by the various international standards, and the processes available to us now are proven to be more than capable of achieving that. I think your conclusions about different types of reactors might apply in laboratory conditions where accurate research results are important, or in industry at large scale perhaps, but for homebrewers and small-scale local producers at least, and probably well beyond that, there isn't any need: the batch-type stirred and heated processors now in wide use are cheap, simple and effective. FYI, there's a continuous reactor design here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#continuous Some people we know are working successfully with small-scale continuous designs but they're not ready to talk about it yet. Judging by their track record I'd be confident that they'll deliver the goods in good order in due course. I know there's also been much ado about continuous reactors at another forum, FWIW, but I haven't taken any notice, not very interested. Best wishes Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Dr. Andreas Ohnsorge CSC Ploenzke AG Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.20020 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.de.csc.com 100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Keith Addison Subject: Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans 15.08.2003 23:19 Please respond to biofuel Hello Andreas, Tomas and all >Tomas, > >I am currently on some similar route - I had some experience with batch >process and am about to construct a continuous processor following a Patent >from Metallgesellschaft out of 1985. Could explain a bit the basis of your >process / could you give me your email address I really would like to get >in contact with you and discuss the approaches... > >How do you think
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Andreas W Ohnsorge wrote: > Tomas, > > I am currently on some similar route - I had some experience with batch > process and am about to construct a continuous processor following a Patent > from Metallgesellschaft out of 1985. Could explain a bit the basis of your Could we please have some more info on this patent? Is it German/US/British/Japanese/??? and do you have a number? Regards, Andrew [SNIP] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Hello Andreas, Tomas and all >Tomas, > >I am currently on some similar route - I had some experience with batch >process and am about to construct a continuous processor following a Patent >from Metallgesellschaft out of 1985. Could explain a bit the basis of your >process / could you give me your email address I really would like to get >in contact with you and discuss the approaches... > >How do you think? I think it would be much better if you discussed it on-list instead of privately, so that everyone could share in and hopefully contribute to the discussion. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever > >Andreas Ohnsorge > >CSC Ploenzke AG >Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 >65189 Wiesbaden >Germany >Phone: +49.611.142.20020 >Fax: +49.611.142.980028 >Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 >e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Internet: http://www.de.csc.com > >100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz >in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. > > >- >--- > >This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please >delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in >delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to >bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written >agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail >for such purpose. >- >--- > > > > > > > Johnsson Tomas > > "'biofuel@yahoogroups.com'" > > @pohjola.fi> cc: > > Subject: [biofuel] >continuous process plans > 15.08.2003 09:10 > > Please respond > > to biofuel > > > > > > > > > >Hello All, > >During long nights of batch processing BD the idea of building a continuous >process has been born. The first ideas is to make a standing >oscilatorprocessor. The feeding of the catalyt and the oil we are planning >to do with hose pumps. The pumps by it self has a 1% accuracy and by >keeping >the oil at same temperature before feeding it through the pump the accuracy >could be kept close to the 1%. > >Do some one have experince from contiuouse process making of BD and can >tell >about their experince from the system and making BD this way. > >The hardware side at this moment seams to be solved and can proceed >according to the idea and start to plan the building meanwhile there is >still a ton of basic questions about the chemical reaction open which can >turn the hardware side upside down. The methanol amount we have a idea of >keeping close to 22 % of the oil amount but If we have a accuracy of 1% by >the pumps this means that for a oil using 6 gram/lye/liter the amount could >come close to 6.1 gram/lye/litre or 5.9 gram/lye/litre continuously. >According to our experince this will be close to what can be tolerated. >Will >the 1 % accuracy be enought. > >Any opinions, thoughts or comments? > >The autum is slovely on the way, light wind, clear sky, +18 ¡C in Ing, >Finland. >Regards >Tomas Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] continuous process plans
Tomas, I am currently on some similar route - I had some experience with batch process and am about to construct a continuous processor following a Patent from Metallgesellschaft out of 1985. Could explain a bit the basis of your process / could you give me your email address I really would like to get in contact with you and discuss the approaches... How do you think? Andreas Ohnsorge CSC Ploenzke AG Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.20020 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.de.csc.com 100 Jahre Tour de France: Herzlichen Glckwunsch dem Team CSC zum 1. Platz in der Team-Gesamtwertung http://www.csc-cycling.com/. This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Johnsson Tomas @pohjola.fi> cc: Subject: [biofuel] continuous process plans 15.08.2003 09:10 Please respond to biofuel Hello All, During long nights of batch processing BD the idea of building a continuous process has been born. The first ideas is to make a standing oscilatorprocessor. The feeding of the catalyt and the oil we are planning to do with hose pumps. The pumps by it self has a 1% accuracy and by keeping the oil at same temperature before feeding it through the pump the accuracy could be kept close to the 1%. Do some one have experince from contiuouse process making of BD and can tell about their experince from the system and making BD this way. The hardware side at this moment seams to be solved and can proceed according to the idea and start to plan the building meanwhile there is still a ton of basic questions about the chemical reaction open which can turn the hardware side upside down. The methanol amount we have a idea of keeping close to 22 % of the oil amount but If we have a accuracy of 1% by the pumps this means that for a oil using 6 gram/lye/liter the amount could come close to 6.1 gram/lye/litre or 5.9 gram/lye/litre continuously. According to our experince this will be close to what can be tolerated. Will the 1 % accuracy be enought. Any opinions, thoughts or comments? The autum is slovely on the way, light wind, clear sky, +18 ¡C in Ing, Finland. Regards Tomas Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
