Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
Hakan: Thought you and others might find this of interest, as to energy-saving landscaping techniques: http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Feb/02022004/monday/134869.asp I am ready with a final draft of First aid for house owners. As many know, I strongly believe that alternative energy sources and energy conservation are two sides of the same coin. I would like comments and suggestions as usual and hope that it would be close to the subject this time. First aid for house owners. Final draft, Jan. 2004. http://www.energysavingnow.com/firstaid/ Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
3M low-e window film. Gila brand is a knockoff product available for DIY installation. I am ready with a final draft of First aid for house owners. As many know, I strongly believe that alternative energy sources and energy conservation are two sides of the same coin. I would like comments and suggestions as usual and hope that it would be close to the subject this time. First aid for house owners. Final draft, Jan. 2004. http://www.energysavingnow.com/firstaid/ Hakan I enjoyed your section on window shutters. It made sense to me, as I have noticed while staying at a house near Paris that such outdoor shutters were common, even though I had not previously experienced them. I can see how they might have some valuable energy-related properties. I don't think they're realistic though for my present home, because almost all my windows are large sliding glass doors. Do you have any further ideas on window treatments... i.e.: blinds, shades, curtains? The one idea I've heard so far is to go to Home Depot because they apparently have some sort of Aluminum-reflective type blind that is inexpensive and good for summertime to keep the sun's warming out. Also, on one or two sites similar to your own topic (greenbuilder.com, etc.) I did see some mention of shades which have a good high R value which would help in winter. I don't know if it's advisable to try to combine both products. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
MM, The best effect from shutters is if they are outside. Historically the are very common in the south European countries and there they are historically a massive window/door on the outside and opens out and locks against the wall , the windows/glass doors are either sliding or opens to the inside. The most commonly used today is shutters that rolls up in a box above the window/door, I bought ones with electrical engine since that make a good habit easier and it can also be programmable with a clock. The second best is to have thin shutters between window glasses that is aluminium pieces with variable angle. Excuse me, if I do not know the common name in English, I am almost sure that they have special names. The next least efficient is aluminium shutters or extra curtains with aluminium surfaces, placed on the inside of windows/doors. I think that all can understand why. The least efficient is the common curtains, but they still have a noticeable effect in interacting between the body and a cold/hot surface. It is only between 50 to 100 years ago, when they still had tapestry of textile on the inside of exterior walls, to manipulate and achieve higher surface temperatures. In rich homes of course. Much technology get forgotten or the original reason for them. I have seen many shutters in US also, but they often seems to be only decorations to achieve a certain style . I have experienced working ones in Southern parts of US. It seems however that the use of them have been forgotten in many parts of US or they are used for security when owners are not at home. Not particularly efficient in reality, but it is the feeling. In Southern Europe they also start to forget the function and talk mostly about them as security measure. They are also sold as that and it is very few hat I meet, who know the real use of those ancient shutters and it was not security, but a part of the old HVAC system. Only 35 years ago or 50 in Sweden, people did not have to lock the doors when they went out. Times change and many things, like theft, have gone dramatically to the worse. An other forgotten AC technique is the rope curtains from Asia (I think), often thinners ropes with glass pearls in different colors and covering entrance openings like doors and first floor windows. I mentioned this once before on the list. Originally they were kept humid with moving water that had a lower temperature than the air temperature, by the staff or in advanced cases from a stream. The effect is that warm humid air that passes will cool down and most important deposit more humidity to the rope curtain. When the air passed it warmed up again, but now it was much drier. The uptake of the body's transpiration improved in a significant way and the sensation is cooler and more comfortable, even if the air temperature was only slightly lower. I remember that I also mentioned why the ancient palace gardens often had many fountains, often supplied and driven by nearby natural streams. It is an other variant of rope curtains. If you are in a city square with fountains, people will often be drawn close to the fountains, because they feel better there during warm and humid summer days. Again the rope curtain effect. I will stop here, otherwise you will be bored to death by my ranting. Hakan At 01:43 24/01/2004, you wrote: I am ready with a final draft of First aid for house owners. As many know, I strongly believe that alternative energy sources and energy conservation are two sides of the same coin. I would like comments and suggestions as usual and hope that it would be close to the subject this time. First aid for house owners. Final draft, Jan. 2004. http://www.energysavingnow.com/firstaid/http://www.energysavingnow.com/ firstaid/ Hakan I enjoyed your section on window shutters. It made sense to me, as I have noticed while staying at a house near Paris that such outdoor shutters were common, even though I had not previously experienced them. I can see how they might have some valuable energy-related properties. I don't think they're realistic though for my present home, because almost all my windows are large sliding glass doors. Do you have any further ideas on window treatments... i.e.: blinds, shades, curtains? The one idea I've heard so far is to go to Home Depot because they apparently have some sort of Aluminum-reflective type blind that is inexpensive and good for summertime to keep the sun's warming out. Also, on one or two sites similar to your own topic (greenbuilder.com, etc.) I did see some mention of shades which have a good high R value which would help in winter. I don't know if it's advisable to try to combine both products. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe,
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 02:28:59 +0100, you wrote: MM, The best effect from shutters is if they are outside. Historically the are very common in the south European countries and there they are historically a massive window/door on the outside and opens out and locks against the wall , the windows/glass doors are either sliding or opens to the inside. The most commonly used today is shutters that rolls up in a box above the window/door, I bought ones with electrical engine since that make a good habit easier and it can also be programmable with a clock. The second best is to have thin shutters between window glasses that is aluminium pieces with variable angle. Excuse me, if I do not know the common name in English, I am almost sure that they have special names. The next least efficient is aluminium shutters or extra curtains with aluminium surfaces, placed on the inside of windows/doors. I think that all can understand why. The least efficient is the common curtains, but they still have a noticeable effect in interacting between the body and a cold/hot surface. It is only between 50 to 100 years ago, when they still had tapestry of textile on the inside of exterior walls, to manipulate and achieve higher surface temperatures. In rich homes of course. Much technology get forgotten or the original reason for them. [...] I will stop here, otherwise you will be bored to death by my ranting. Hakan I think it's interesting, and I see no reason you shouldn't maintain it as part of your first aid page, or perhaps as an adjunct to that page. On the issue of the functional door shutters you describe above, I was wondering if they could be installed on the face of such a large glass expanse as I have, where the sliding glass doors must be about 7meters long and about 2 meters high. When I think of a wood shutter, it's something a bit more modest. But perhaps one of these motorized gadgets could be installed in a series, to cover the whole expanse. In my initial searches, the other green-building type sites didn't seem to do a good job in discussing window treatment type issues, so thanks for the help you've given. One interesting (too brief) discussion that I finally did find might interest you or others here: http://www.buildinggreen.com/elists/shades.cfm That discussion was interesting, but not too comprehensive, and pretty brief. I have to add something that has nothing to do with window treatments: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/20/science/space/20GEL.html?ex=1075179600en=47b769c5dbc8bd9cei=5062partner=GOOGLE This was sent to me by a friend the other day. At first glance it might not seem relevant to your project, but check this out: In the 1980's, Dr. Tsou and others began to work with the material. It has 14 Guinness Book of World Records-type properties, Dr. Tsou said. It's the lowest density of any solid, and it has the highest thermoinsulation properties. Though it would be very expensive, you could take a two- or three-bedroom house, insulate it with aerogel, and you could heat the house with a candle. But eventually the house would become too hot. Ok, so it doesn't meet your ready-for-use criteria, but it's pretty interesting, huh? MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
MM, If you have a roll shutter that has to be 7 meter long, then you have problems. I have one 6.5 x 3 to cover the opening of a terrace and had to do it in iron, 3 to 4 meters wide is max for aluminium, otherwise it would be to weak. It is the same as normally would be used for shop windows and it does not work very well, because it is very heavy. If you have any support for railings and can divide it in 2 or three shutters, then you can do it. Maybe you can look at foldable doors instead, that goes from the ends and meet in the middle. It must be simple to open and close, preferable engine driven, otherwise you would not use it in the right way after a while. If you cannot do it very simple to operate, it will probably be a waste anyway and you end up with no gains and expensive shutters. Looked at the discussion list, as you said, not really describing enough of both the problem and solutions. You are not really looking for the R-value with the shutters. The most important is that they are reflective (low emission) and the additional wind breaking effect, the result is higher surface temperatures on the inside glass and better comfort at lower air temperature in the room. Since the shutters are made in aluminium, they are low emission, even if they are colored in light color. After that you can maybe consider R-value as some sort of contribution, but not a crucial design parameter. Hakan At 03:57 24/01/2004, you wrote: On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 02:28:59 +0100, you wrote: snip On the issue of the functional door shutters you describe above, I was wondering if they could be installed on the face of such a large glass expanse as I have, where the sliding glass doors must be about 7meters long and about 2 meters high. When I think of a wood shutter, it's something a bit more modest. But perhaps one of these motorized gadgets could be installed in a series, to cover the whole expanse. snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:26:25 -0600, you wrote: 3M low-e window film. Gila brand is a knockoff product available for DIY installation. Thx, I'll look into it. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
Actually, Glenn, much of the transpiration that pops off your adobe's outer surface comes from the opposite direction...from the inside of the adobe to the outside. The adobe needs to be able to breath on both the inside and the outside because moisture from the inside of the building passes through the adobe to the outside. If this moisture hits a barrier like an impermeable paint or sealant, it collects behind the film of paint carrying solubles (salts etc.) from the adobe itself and compromises the outer surface of the adobe. Then, with changes of temperature and associated expansion and contraction, this compromised area can pop off. Here in St. Louis, Missouri, we have many houses that are built on rubble foundations...literally stacks of limestone piled up and then, on the interior, tuckpointed and parged. If homeowners make the mistake of using a rubberized paint on these rubble foundations, they find that the limestone starts popping off on the inside because the moisture is passing through from the outside and having the same effect even though the interior is warmer than the exterior. No matter where you're located, you're more than welcome to join the Rehabbers Club list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rehabbersclub. We're a St. Louis organization dedicated to rehabbing/restoring buildings in our city, but we have many members who are from other areas and countries and a wealth of knowledge to share. You may find some ideas for roof repair/replacement there. Maud St. Louis, Missouri Hakan, Thanks for your comment. Yes, I am sure you are right. The problem in the past has been the wrong choice of paint, not allowing moisture to penetrate through the paint. Most of the damage happened before I got the house, and I need to make sure the next paint chosen will allow moisture penetration. Glenn I take the adobe surface problem first, are you sure that you used suitable paint for it. To me it sounds like the paint seals up at the surface and this would then be an expected problem. The choice of paint is very critical and it must allow the humidity to pass through, any collection of water on the back side of the paint will give you the problems you describe. Many historical buildings have been destroyed by modern paints and other techniques. I had a 350 year old farmhouse in Sweden and restoring that meant a lot of study in old building techniques and understanding of how and why they were done that way. To understand old traditional buildings is not always easy, but most of the techniques have a rational explanation. I saw a lot of failed renovations and almost all of them was because of sealing the construction too much, but not totally, with modern materials and especially unsuitable paint. Hakan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
I am ready with a final draft of First aid for house owners. As many know, I strongly believe that alternative energy sources and energy conservation are two sides of the same coin. I would like comments and suggestions as usual and hope that it would be close to the subject this time. First aid for house owners. Final draft, Jan. 2004. http://www.energysavingnow.com/firstaid/ Hakan I enjoyed your section on window shutters. It made sense to me, as I have noticed while staying at a house near Paris that such outdoor shutters were common, even though I had not previously experienced them. I can see how they might have some valuable energy-related properties. I don't think they're realistic though for my present home, because almost all my windows are large sliding glass doors. Do you have any further ideas on window treatments... i.e.: blinds, shades, curtains? The one idea I've heard so far is to go to Home Depot because they apparently have some sort of Aluminum-reflective type blind that is inexpensive and good for summertime to keep the sun's warming out. Also, on one or two sites similar to your own topic (greenbuilder.com, etc.) I did see some mention of shades which have a good high R value which would help in winter. I don't know if it's advisable to try to combine both products. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
Hakan, Thanks for your comment. Yes, I am sure you are right. The problem in the past has been the wrong choice of paint, not allowing moisture to penetrate through the paint. Most of the damage happened before I got the house, and I need to make sure the next paint chosen will allow moisture penetration. Glenn I take the adobe surface problem first, are you sure that you used suitable paint for it. To me it sounds like the paint seals up at the surface and this would then be an expected problem. The choice of paint is very critical and it must allow the humidity to pass through, any collection of water on the back side of the paint will give you the problems you describe. Many historical buildings have been destroyed by modern paints and other techniques. I had a 350 year old farmhouse in Sweden and restoring that meant a lot of study in old building techniques and understanding of how and why they were done that way. To understand old traditional buildings is not always easy, but most of the techniques have a rational explanation. I saw a lot of failed renovations and almost all of them was because of sealing the construction too much, but not totally, with modern materials and especially unsuitable paint. Hakan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
Hi Glenn,Hakan, if you talk about moisture penetration,dont you want to say hydrofuge material to be used to protect the walls?You dont want moisture to get in but it should not be haltet to get out! korrect me if i get it wrong please Fritz - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft Hakan, Thanks for your comment. Yes, I am sure you are right. The problem in the past has been the wrong choice of paint, not allowing moisture to penetrate through the paint. Most of the damage happened before I got the house, and I need to make sure the next paint chosen will allow moisture penetration. Glenn I take the adobe surface problem first, are you sure that you used suitable paint for it. To me it sounds like the paint seals up at the surface and this would then be an expected problem. The choice of paint is very critical and it must allow the humidity to pass through, any collection of water on the back side of the paint will give you the problems you describe. Many historical buildings have been destroyed by modern paints and other techniques. I had a 350 year old farmhouse in Sweden and restoring that meant a lot of study in old building techniques and understanding of how and why they were done that way. To understand old traditional buildings is not always easy, but most of the techniques have a rational explanation. I saw a lot of failed renovations and almost all of them was because of sealing the construction too much, but not totally, with modern materials and especially unsuitable paint. Hakan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
Fritz, The problem is that the original building techniques was open constructions, the paints for this old buildings was usually chalk based paints. They painted them white in the spring and this reflected sun radiation during the summer and the fall rains took away most of the paint and the sun radiation got absorbed in the winter, helping with the heating. In spring they made the house nice and reflective again. It was a part of the heating system, before the petroleum age (LOL). Moisture got both in and out, depending on season. Very brilliant solutions, but not exactly in line with the thinking of modern engineers. When you start to change this, you have to first understand the original concept. Otherwise you get surprises like this freezing or other things. Before doing anything, it is better to understand well what can happen. Hakan At 02:37 22/01/2004, you wrote: Hi Glenn,Hakan, if you talk about moisture penetration,dont you want to say hydrofuge material to be used to protect the walls?You dont want moisture to get in but it should not be haltet to get out! korrect me if i get it wrong please Fritz - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft Hakan, Thanks for your comment. Yes, I am sure you are right. The problem in the past has been the wrong choice of paint, not allowing moisture to penetrate through the paint. Most of the damage happened before I got the house, and I need to make sure the next paint chosen will allow moisture penetration. Glenn I take the adobe surface problem first, are you sure that you used suitable paint for it. To me it sounds like the paint seals up at the surface and this would then be an expected problem. The choice of paint is very critical and it must allow the humidity to pass through, any collection of water on the back side of the paint will give you the problems you describe. Many historical buildings have been destroyed by modern paints and other techniques. I had a 350 year old farmhouse in Sweden and restoring that meant a lot of study in old building techniques and understanding of how and why they were done that way. To understand old traditional buildings is not always easy, but most of the techniques have a rational explanation. I saw a lot of failed renovations and almost all of them was because of sealing the construction too much, but not totally, with modern materials and especially unsuitable paint. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
Hi Hakan, Impressive discussion you have. There is one thing I have run across in the past that may not fall within the scope of first aid, but I wanted to get your comment. This has to do with maintenance of metal roofs, specifically spraying a thick layer of polyurethane, covered with acrylic, to provide both a seal of the leaking roof surface and thermal insulation. This is a service being provided by at least one company, but I wonder how satisfactory this is. I have a number of buildings with metal roofs, at least one having reached the point that paint will no longer hold. A roofer in whom I have confidence tells me that the only solution now is tear off and replacement, which I want to avoid, not only because it is costly but also because it would diminish the historical value of a building that is several hundred years old. (Incidently, I have another problem with this building in that it is built of adobe brick, 8-in through the wall, no interior insulation, and needs to be kept continuously painted to keep the adobe from disintegrating. But vapor from the house interior freezes between the paint surface and the brick, continuously flaking off pieces of the brick.) This roofer advises me that polyurethane on the roof will not work. Much of his work, he says, is in tear offs of houses that have been similarly maintained. Your presentation, it seems to me, would accomplish a valuable service by addressing the problem of what to do with metal roofs that have reached the end of their effective lives. What to do? Tear off and reroof, or cover with polyurethane/acrylic finish? Or what? Glenn Ellis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft
Glenn, My experiences are in energy transmission and acoustics, not exactly roofing and . I have some general experiences from my own houses. If your house is several hundreds of years, it could be a copper roofing and to maintain the character is difficult with modern fixes. If it is not copper and worth while to spend money on, maybe your roofers advices is the best. I take the adobe surface problem first, are you sure that you used suitable paint for it. To me it sounds like the paint seals up at the surface and this would then be an expected problem. The choice of paint is very critical and it must allow the humidity to pass through, any collection of water on the back side of the paint will give you the problems you describe. Many historical buildings have been destroyed by modern paints and other techniques. I had a 350 year old farmhouse in Sweden and restoring that meant a lot of study in old building techniques and understanding of how and why they were done that way. To understand old traditional buildings is not always easy, but most of the techniques have a rational explanation. I saw a lot of failed renovations and almost all of them was because of sealing the construction too much, but not totally, with modern materials and especially unsuitable paint. Hakan At 20:06 21/01/2004, you wrote: Hi Hakan, Impressive discussion you have. There is one thing I have run across in the past that may not fall within the scope of first aid, but I wanted to get your comment. This has to do with maintenance of metal roofs, specifically spraying a thick layer of polyurethane, covered with acrylic, to provide both a seal of the leaking roof surface and thermal insulation. This is a service being provided by at least one company, but I wonder how satisfactory this is. I have a number of buildings with metal roofs, at least one having reached the point that paint will no longer hold. A roofer in whom I have confidence tells me that the only solution now is tear off and replacement, which I want to avoid, not only because it is costly but also because it would diminish the historical value of a building that is several hundred years old. (Incidently, I have another problem with this building in that it is built of adobe brick, 8-in through the wall, no interior insulation, and needs to be kept continuously painted to keep the adobe from disintegrating. But vapor from the house interior freezes between the paint surface and the brick, continuously flaking off pieces of the brick.) This roofer advises me that polyurethane on the roof will not work. Much of his work, he says, is in tear offs of houses that have been similarly maintained. Your presentation, it seems to me, would accomplish a valuable service by addressing the problem of what to do with metal roofs that have reached the end of their effective lives. What to do? Tear off and reroof, or cover with polyurethane/acrylic finish? Or what? Glenn Ellis Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
