Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
And what superior mind is going to give us the laws to which the rule of law applies? POC On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, motie_d wrote: > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Party of Citizens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sure, sure...I know this "I am better than my fellow citizens" > attitude. > > POC > > > > > And that attitude is why we need Rule of Law, so there are > guidelines to follow. > 30 KKK members and 3 Southern Blacks taking a vote on who should hang > from tree limbs is NOT my idea of a better form of government. > 50%+1 doesn't make it acceptable or legal. > > Drug Dealers outnumber Police Officers. Should we allow a vote on > which group gets to drive the Police Cars next week? > > Shall we have a vote between the US and the Chinese on who should be > the owner of Nuclear weapons? > > Motie > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
> >"But we do wish that you Americans would think a little more about >your government, because we have to live with your government. And >that is not easy, especially at times like this when war is in the >air." >http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14581 > Well, I read the above link, and sort of feel that in a way the division of 'America' from 'Americans' is something of an evasion of responsibility. What it doesn't seem to address is the perception of an American national, or countrywide, characteristic lack of curiosity about those who live beyond their own shores. The lack of comprehension as to why others hate 'us' so much. The article at the link above quotes an interview saying 'your culture is our culture'. Well, yes, and no. http://www.terminalcity.com:8080/terminalcity/1011338379/index_html On September 11, I felt.., "They've had this coming to them for a long time, why did it take so long?". Quite apart from the Arab/Israeli /Islam/Christianity dimension,for years in American,and yes, British, Western media are the regular, seemingly endless, references to the tragedy that Vietnam was for America, the 55,000 dead, the Vietnam war memorial, how this got burnt into the national psyche. What is missing is any reference to how many 'gooks' died. I recall from somewhere that they were 3 million. I see that just over a year since Sep 11, Kabul flattened, very little of the promised Western humanitarian/redevelop funding has yet materialised. I understand that from the Western perspective, proposals being pushed forward, that what Afghanistan really, really urgently needs is a new 5 star hotel. [with accompanying airport, I think]. Not too much change in mindset there then Andrew Preston -- Andrew Preston Mail sent thru http://www.fastmail.fm ! -- http://fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or over the web Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Unsubscribe - was Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
"It doesn't work"... Once, and once only, in three years, did it not work, and I still don't know why. Every other time (many) the would-be unsubber was doing it wrong. (No, I don't get it either.) It works. Even for "sevy" it works - I wrote to him offlist spelling it out, and he just unsubbed himself. I also said we could have done without his rudeness, and without the 171 lines of excess copy he sent to everyone. Thankyou, Greg, for denying that we're godforsaken. Best Keith >I've tried that several times, but it doesn't work I'm stuck in Yahoo's >computer I guess >I'm sure someone can get me kicked off this thing. What do I have to do: > >Original Message - >From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:02 PM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > > > > All you have to do is follow the instructions at the bottom of each post. > > > > Godforsaken? Not. > > > > Greg H. > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "sevy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 17:50 > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > > > > > > > Would someone kindly remove me from this godforsaken list. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
Whether physically in the hands of one or many, there has only ever been one country that has a) used a nuclear bomb b) been very clear in its willingness to use it again, over Cuba, in circumstances where the other side, Kruschev, had explicitly stated that the USSR would never make a first strike. On these the President made the executive decision on the first, and enunciated the position on the second. Who's mad? Andrew Preston On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:40:04 -0700, "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > This message only has an HTML part -- this is a text generated > representation > > >- Original Message - >From: "Party of Citizens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 16:20 >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy >> Why stop there. What red blooded American wouldn't want to uphold >his >> constitutional right to bear arms with a Gerald Bull Super-Gun in >the >> backyard or a basement full of suitcase nukes? >> POC >I for one. I would not want to be solely responsible for a nuke. And I >would >not want any other one person responsible for a nuke ether. Any tool >that >can kill several hundred people in a flash of an eye should not be in >the >hands of any one person. It is one thing to have a tool to defend >your >self, your home, and family, it is another for that tool, to go >further than >nessasary. If a child need to be punushed, would you use a baseball >bat? >I doubt it. >You may wonder why I use the word tool instead of weapon, it is >simple, any >object can be used for good or ill, to help or to hurt. It all depends >on >the user. >Greg H. > -- Andrew Preston Mail sent thru http://www.fastmail.fm ! -- http://fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different... Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
>excuse me - I may be out of my mind, or simply out of place as a
>newcomer to this list, but what does any of this back and forthing
>have to do with biofuels (in the direct sense)? Nuclear weapons?
>rule of the masses? Interesting and compelling topics, but perhaps
>better suited for off the list. Maybe I am missing something.
>I am trying to make biodiesel in The Bahamas - a small nation with a
>large chance of turning their energy future into a healthy and
>renewable one. Experienced advice on occasion is very useful to me
>and I am happy to share any successes or failures I experience that
>may be beneficial to anyone else.
>jack
>Jack Kenworthy
>Sustainable Systems Director
>The Cape Eleuthera Island School
>242-359-7625 ph. 242-359-7697 fax
>www.islandschool.org
> - Original Message -
> From: Greg and April
> To: Party of Citizens
> Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
Hello Jack
We've had this discussion a few times, between those who want topics
restricted ("in the direct sense") and those who want to keep it
open, who say that biofuels is a broad-ranging subject and should be
dealt with in its context. If we restricted the discussion, those
people - probably a majority - would be deprived. On the other hand,
keeping it open deprives nobody of anything. Nobody's forcing you to
read anything, right? If you're not interested, skip it.
What's on-topic and what's not is no simple matter - make a list, see
if it makes sense. And if it does (doubtful), try to apply it. Then,
try to keep it up to date. Don't forget there are people from more
than a hundred countries here, to whom biofuels means many different
things, you must cater to all of them and their views of the subject.
Many of them state that it is not a subject that makes any sense
shorn of its political context. Others state that it's an entirely
political subject. That said, people do at times stray right away
from even a broad interpretation of the topic, but they seldom go too
far, and it quite often brings up on-topic issues that would not
otherwise have arisen. So, for all those reasons, there's no
restriction of topics.
In fact the "Direct Democracy" thread was started by James, who lives
in Spain, and is working with this in Gibralter in tandem with
introducing biofuels there at both a local level and for muncipal and
public transport vehicles, with a major aspect being air-pollution
affecting the tourist trade.
On-topic or not?
What would you do, say yes, on-topic, but no discussion of nuclear
weapons or rule of the masses, that's off-topic?
As for biofuels in the direct sense, how far do you think that would
go? This list is nearly three years old. Making biodiesel isn't
rocket science. All the nuts and bolts stuff is in the archives, and
if you have a question you're welcome to post it, even if it is in
the archives, and you'll probably get answers.
So, the Bahamas is a small nation with a large chance of turning
their energy future into a healthy and renewable one. Not too
dissimilar from the situation in Gibralter maybe. Anyway, if that's
the case in the Bahamas, why hasn't it happened already? What's
stopping it? I'd guess that if you thought about that a bit you might
admit that the Gibralter discussion might not be so very off-topic
after all. Certainly it's not to be driven off-list. All discussions
are welcome here. Including one on renewable energy options and
constraints in the Bahamas, if you'd care to post it.
Keith Addison
Moderator
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/
Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
> There is no way I will ever support Mob Rule, over Rule of Law. > Short and Simple answer. > The object is to influence government policy before it's too late, nothing more. James > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
Have you gone to Yahoo Groups, and removed yourself from the group? Greg H. - Original Message - From: "sevy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 18:19 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > I've tried that several times, but it doesn't work I'm stuck in Yahoo's > computer I guess > I'm sure someone can get me kicked off this thing. What do I have to do: > > Original Message - > From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:02 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > > > > All you have to do is follow the instructions at the bottom of each post. > > > > Godforsaken? Not. > > > > Greg H. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "sevy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 17:50 > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > > > > > > > Would someone kindly remove me from this godforsaken list. > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> áFREE Health Insurance Quotes-eHealthInsurance.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/1.voSB/RnFFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
- Original Message - From: "Party of Citizens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 16:20 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > Why stop there. What red blooded American wouldn't want to uphold his > constitutional right to bear arms with a Gerald Bull Super-Gun in the > backyard or a basement full of suitcase nukes? > POC I for one. I would not want to be solely responsible for a nuke. And I would not want any other one person responsible for a nuke ether. Any tool that can kill several hundred people in a flash of an eye should not be in the hands of any one person. It is one thing to have a tool to defend your self, your home, and family, it is another for that tool, to go further than nessasary. If a child need to be punushed, would you use a baseball bat? I doubt it. You may wonder why I use the word tool instead of weapon, it is simple, any object can be used for good or ill, to help or to hurt. It all depends on the user. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
excuse me - I may be out of my mind, or simply out of place as a newcomer to this list, but what does any of this back and forthing have to do with biofuels (in the direct sense)? Nuclear weapons? rule of the masses? Interesting and compelling topics, but perhaps better suited for off the list. Maybe I am missing something. I am trying to make biodiesel in The Bahamas - a small nation with a large chance of turning their energy future into a healthy and renewable one. Experienced advice on occasion is very useful to me and I am happy to share any successes or failures I experience that may be beneficial to anyone else. jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 242-359-7697 fax www.islandschool.org - Original Message - From: Greg and April To: Party of Citizens Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy - Original Message - From: "Party of Citizens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 16:20 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> ·FREE Health Insurance Quotes-eHealthInsurance.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/1.voSB/RnFFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
Would someone kindly remove me from this godforsaken list. - Original Message - From: "motie_d" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 5:58 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the Nazis rounded up the Jews for their trip to the showers, > > >they were unable to resist. > > > > Another American who feels somewhat the same just told me he feels > > like he's living in Germany in the 1930s. > > > > >Some of us have decided that we won't > > >give up our defensive tools until we are out of ammo. > > > > Didn't the Taliban, for instance, also feel that way? No, not > trying > > to stir it up at all, just trying to indicate that it might not > help > > you much more than it helped them, should it ever come to that. > > Is it better to willingly submit to slavery? > > > > > So, yes, it's about our Constitution! > > > > Well, have a look at what the Swiss have done with it - same bit of > > paper basically. > > > > > > > > "Switzerland, by the way, > > modelled its current federal constitution on the US, in 1848. > > Government there is a very local business, strictly bottom-up, the > > federal government is tiny and hardly seems to matter. There's no > > clear division between the governing party and the opposition." > > While ours has metamorphisized into 'Top Down', is huge, and matters > in every aspect and detail of our lives. > > > > It would seem the leaders, if that's quite the word (I think > > it isn't quite the word), don't have much choice but to abide by > the > > consitution, and anyway nobody seems to take very much notice of > them. > > We don't have the option to ignore them, when everything we do needs > a Permit(or several) from someone who is under NO obligation to grant > it, and has immunity from prosecution for his failures. There is > little or no accountability for misfeasance, malfeasance or outright > corruption. > > > > I think one aspect of the teledemocracy James is proposing is that > is > > could be local local local. > > A return to local control over local affairs would be desirable, and > some of us are working on it. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jail4judges/ > http://www.jail4judges.net > > > > > > > > Anyway, Motie, you see teledemocracy = Direct Democracy = Mob Rule, > > the preferred alternative being the Rule of Law, and, what, the > > status quo? > > We seem to have a misunderstanding on terminolgy. What I was > referring to as Mob Rule, is what is currently happening in our > forests. Loggers are demonized as wanting to destroy the forests for > fun and profit, and honestly concerned but misinformed people write > letters/make phone calls to their Representative to stop them. The > Representatives then pass a 'Law' prohibitting timber harvesting, > with no legal authority to write such a 'Law'. Constitutional 'Due > Process' is ignored by Judges who rule in whatever manner is most > profitable to them personally, with little pretense to complying with > Due Process or Rule of Law. They simply make an arbitrary decision, > and have men with guns(Law Enforcement) enforce their illegal > mandates. Legal appeals and Petitions for Redress of Grievance are > mostly ignored, with NO Due Process folowed in dismissing the case. > Those who persist in their quest for Justice are fined and jailed, > and their houses confiscated by more arbitrary decisions of the > Judge. When the Judges won't follow the Laws, we have Tyranny in > action. > > > Somehow I don't think you're that happy with either of > > those. The bit above ending with the Patriot Act is either the Rule > > of Law at work or shows that it's a weakling, easily purloined. It > > also looks more than somewhat like what you have now is Mob Rule. > > The definition I was using for Mob Rule, is when a few individuals > can misinform an ignorant bunch of people to forcefully impose their > wishes on others with NO regard for Laws. Basically a Riot, with > members of the Mob being controlled by a few manipulative people with > a personal agenda. The Salem Witch trials would fit the definition of > Mob Rule, as I intended to use it. The KKK would be another example. > Tyranny, as I used it, is sort of a dispersed Monarchy, or shared > Dictatorships, with Judges in each Judicial District being the > Supreme Ruler, and with their immunity to prosecution are totally > unaccountable. > > > Law > > and justice are not the same. That allegedly virginal and unraped > > lady in the white dress has a set of scales and a sword, usually a > > two-edged one that seems to cut a lot more with one edge than the > > other, and no wonder, since she's blindfold. Blind justice? I think > > what they meant, or should have meant, was impartial justice. > > I agree that impartial Justice, based on Rule of Law, was the > original intent. When certain people with political connections are > allowed to
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
I've tried that several times, but it doesn't work I'm stuck in Yahoo's computer I guess I'm sure someone can get me kicked off this thing. What do I have to do: Original Message - From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > All you have to do is follow the instructions at the bottom of each post. > > Godforsaken? Not. > > Greg H. > > - Original Message - > From: "sevy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 17:50 > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > > > > Would someone kindly remove me from this godforsaken list. > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
All you have to do is follow the instructions at the bottom of each post. Godforsaken? Not. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "sevy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 17:50 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > Would someone kindly remove me from this godforsaken list. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
Why stop there. What red blooded American wouldn't want to uphold his constitutional right to bear arms with a Gerald Bull Super-Gun in the backyard or a basement full of suitcase nukes? POC On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Greg and April wrote: > Not to be patranizing or anything, but, why don't you provide your own? > Alot of people in the U.S. do. All Swiss able bodied males are expected to > serve in the armed forces for a time and from then on are reserve. They are > still expected to drill and practice every so often with thoes rifles. We > are not. Would you be willing to put in the extra time and effort? > > Greg H. > > - Original Message - > From: "motie_d" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 16:12 > Subject: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > > > They also have government provided Assault Rifles in every home. > When you get our government to provide me with an Assault Rifle, I'll > give your idea more consideration. > > Motie > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
- Original Message - From: "Party of Citizens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 16:20 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy > Why stop there. What red blooded American wouldn't want to uphold his > constitutional right to bear arms with a Gerald Bull Super-Gun in the > backyard or a basement full of suitcase nukes? > POC I for one. I would not want to be solely responsible for a nuke. And I would not want any other one person responsible for a nuke ether. Any tool that can kill several hundred people in a flash of an eye should not be in the hands of any one person. It is one thing to have a tool to defend your self, your home, and family, it is another for that tool, to go further than nessasary. If a child need to be punushed, would you use a baseball bat? I doubt it. You may wonder why I use the word tool instead of weapon, it is simple, any object can be used for good or ill, to help or to hurt. It all depends on the user. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
Sure, sure...I know this "I am better than my fellow citizens" attitude. POC On 26 Nov 2002, Kelsey Jordahl wrote: > > milliontc writes: > > > I wonder if anyone would like to make comment on the > > following... Direct Democracy > > I think direct democracy is a terrible idea. People are already too > poorly informed to vote knowledgeably on the 10 or so ballot > initiatives we have every election here in California. Do you want > every complex issue decided by every schmoe with a remote control? > Do you have time to study and vote in an informed way on _every_ issue > that comes up? Do you think the average person does? To understand > the details of the laws as they are proposed? Big money is already > corrupting the once-populist ballot initiative process, soon it will > be as bad as the campaigns that candidates run. In a true direct > democracy, laws would be sold like soft drinks. There is no way the > mass market could be conducive to a real debate on the issues. > > The solution is to reform the election process. Representative > democracy is the only way to run a complex society in a way which can > be both effective and responsive to the people. As has been observed > by many including Churchill, [representative] democracy is the worst > form of government, except for all the others that have been tried. > > -- > Kelsey Jordahl > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
Not to be patranizing or anything, but, why don't you provide your own? Alot of people in the U.S. do. All Swiss able bodied males are expected to serve in the armed forces for a time and from then on are reserve. They are still expected to drill and practice every so often with thoes rifles. We are not. Would you be willing to put in the extra time and effort? Greg H. - Original Message - From: "motie_d" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 16:12 Subject: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy They also have government provided Assault Rifles in every home. When you get our government to provide me with an Assault Rifle, I'll give your idea more consideration. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> áFREE Health Insurance Quotes-eHealthInsurance.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/1.voSB/RnFFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
The Swiss have had direct democracy for over 100 years and only have about 3 referenda per year though they can have as many as they want. Responsible democratic citizens are not so stupid as to change the laws every day. POC On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, motie_d wrote: > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Party of Citizens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There should be some test of minimal mental competence before > people can > > vote and those who do not know the difference between a mob and a > society > > of responsible citizens would fail the test. > > > > POC > > > > Perhaps you can clarify the distinctions for us? In my opinion, a > society of responsible citizens should be able to have some agreed-on > rules to live by, instead of arbitrary decisions with no continuity. > We'd have to live our lives conducting Polls to figure out what is > acceptable today. > > I prefer to have the rules known in advance, and expect people to > stay within them. These rules are called laws. > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct Democracy
There should be some test of minimal mental competence before people can vote and those who do not know the difference between a mob and a society of responsible citizens would fail the test. POC On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, motie_d wrote: > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I wonder if anyone would like to make comment on the following... > > Direct Democracy > > > > There is no way I will ever support Mob Rule, over Rule of Law. > Short and Simple answer. > > Motie > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> ·FREE Health Insurance Quotes-eHealthInsurance.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/1.voSB/RnFFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
