Re: [biofuel] Termites
termites do produce a lot of heat, it's for the queen and eggs. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi, > > I just heard that termite produce a lot of methane. Could you use > termites to produce methane? > > Could termites have higher conversion rates? > > Maybe termites would allow methane to be produced without heat. > > I'm not a regular biofuel guy, so if I've said something completely > ludicrous... > > Regards, > > Michael Dewolf -- www.skaar.101main.net from 20:00 to 7:30 AST, ask for free access to the hidden directories. www.geocities.com/skaar0 for the speedier, full time version, i put the newest stuff on my home site moderator of [EMAIL PROTECTED] lord of the minuet. nutty artist axtraordinaire. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Termites
Most of the methane (about 1,000 millions tons a year) is made by micro-organisms in the mud in wetlands, lakes and sea beds, and termites and ants produce most of the rest, with cows coming next (damn, now we're back to Terry's limerick!). In the growth-decay cycle, something like two-thirds of the world's biomass goes through ants and termites. It's not ludicrous, Michael, it's an interesting question. I'll try to dig up some more info. I've got a GREAT book on termites half scanned, a real work of genius (for our Small Farms Library). But the writer wasn't an energy freak, not into harnessing the methane. www.skaar.101main.net wrote: >termites do produce a lot of heat, it's for the queen and eggs. I think for the fungus gardens, mainly, and thence for the whole nest. (Termites don't actually eat wood, they use the wood to grow a special fungus which is the only thing they can eat.) The fungus gardens maintain the temperature and humidity at precise levels throughout the nest. A termite nest probably isn't a lot less complicated than a city. More coherent though - it makes better sense to view the nest itself as the individual animal, and the termites as its body-cells, grouped into the various organs: stomach, lungs, bloodstream, brain (the queen with her pheromones), etc. Everything except legs. And it farts a lot. I once found a termite nest with TWO queens, and one king, closed up together in the royal chamber. Never heard of that before, nor since. The queens were about 3 in. long with their bloated egg-sac bodies. The fungus gardens were amazing, definitely the most wonderful farm I've seen, tended by specialised workers without pigmentation, like creatures of glass. Underneath it all were little compost piles made up of the chewed-up wood the termites carried into the nest. They seemed to assemble the piles more or less molecule by molecule to produce the special substrate the fungus grows on, a real bio-engineering masterwork. They were also using manure worms (red wrigglers) as part of the composting process, they had a whole bunch of them in there. I've read that other types of termites use other creatures in this way, like cockroaches eg. I've not heard much about the agricultural benefits of cockroach crap! Strange and wonderful creatures, termites. It's hard to imagine quite how and why they developed into this ecological niche. Anyway, it's a complex and subtle business. I imagine it wouldn't be too easy to adapt it in any way for methane production, but it's certainly worth checking out. I didn't deliberately destroy that nest with two queens, by the way. It was when I was farming in Hong Kong. Hong Kong termites have underground nests, no towers. I was hoeing a field and wrecked the nest before I even knew it was there. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I just heard that termite produce a lot of methane. Could you use > > termites to produce methane? > > > > Could termites have higher conversion rates? > > > > Maybe termites would allow methane to be produced without heat. > > > > I'm not a regular biofuel guy, so if I've said something completely > > ludicrous... > > > > Regards, > > > > Michael Dewolf > >-- >www.skaar.101main.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Biofuel] Termites, global warming
Maybe someone should tell Gorge W this it seems simple if we could just hook up hoses to the rear ends of all the cattle we gas could power our electrical generators. This would be much better than going back to the future with nuc power. Just a sarcastic thought. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 10:13 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Termites, global warming Joe Street wrote: > Well there may be something to this. It may not be the main source of > greenhouse gas but IIRC methane is 6 times more potent as a greenhouse > gas than CO2 and there are a lot of cows being grown to serve the > north american obsession with beef. And they do fart a hell of a lot! > Consider also that the lion's share of oxygen comes not from trees as > many a tree hugger has suggested but from algae in the sea. Tiny > bubbles. Well I have heard that more methane is released by > termites than any other single source. Is this information > debunkable? I'd like to know. I think the actual figure is that methane is ~24 times more effective as a greenhouse gas than CO2. For real information on global warming and climate change, move on over to http://www.realclimate.org. That's a site run by actual climate scientists, and there is no doubt in their minds about mankinds changes to the environment. As for termites, you can color me skeptical. http://www.epa.gov/methane/sources.html lists methane from livestock (see enteric fermentation) as about 20% of US methane emissions from human related sources, following landfills and natural gas systems. http://www.brightsurf.com/news/oct_02/AGU_news_100902.html certainly makes it sound like the majority of methane released (60%) to the atmosphere is related to human activity. Google doesn't seem to have much on termites, methane, and global warming in the first few pages of results, that would indicate termites are a significant source. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Termites, global warming
Greetings, Well the thought is close, but it is much easier to hook that pipe up to a methane digester, that the human toilets feed, then use the effluent to create compost. A man by the name of Arun on [EMAIL PROTECTED] has figured out that if we saved all the humanure in the world, we would not need the fertilizer companies. I have personally seen a system where the toilet feeds directly to a digester under the house, which provides the cooking gas, then the effluent goes into the compost pile. I am not too sure I want a methane digester under my house, but it would sure beat hauling buckets. We have the technology and all the information we need to fix the problem. What we don't have is the will to actually make real changes in how we live. Our sanitized world will kill us yet. Bright Blessings, Kim At 08:05 PM 2/8/2006, you wrote: >Maybe someone should tell Gorge W this it seems simple if we could just hook >up hoses to the rear ends of all the cattle we gas could power our >electrical generators. This would be much better than going back to the >future with nuc power. >Just a sarcastic thought. > >- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Termites, global warming
Termites aiding global warming? They have a lot of help from the flatulant cows in California's Sam Joaquin Valley.Garth & Kim Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Greetings,Well the thought is close, but it is much easier to hook that pipe up to a methane digester, that the human toilets feed, then use the effluent to create compost. A man by the name of Arun on [EMAIL PROTECTED] has figured out that if we saved all the humanure in the world, we would not need the fertilizer companies.I have personally seen a system where the toilet feeds directly to a digester under the house, which provides the cooking gas, then the effluent goes into the compost pile. I am not too sure I want a methane digester under my house, but it would sure beat hauling buckets.We have the technology and all the information we need to fix the problem. What we don't have is the will to actually make real changes in how we live. Our sanitized world will kill us yet.Bright Blessings,KimAt 08:05 PM 2/8/2006, you wrote:>Maybe someone should tell Gorge W this it seems simple if we could just hook>up hoses to the rear ends of all the cattle we gas could power our>electrical generators. This would be much better than going back to the>future with nuc power.>Just a sarcastic thought.>>-___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Mike, For what it's worth: Termites chew the plant matter, including wood, but it is the microbes in their gut that digest it. Termites, like all animals, lack the enzyme cellulase, needed to break down plant cell walls. As I understand it, the microbes are obligate anaerobes and are sensitive to O2. I've heard that high levels of O2 kill their endosymbiotic microbes and the termites then starve to death. I don't know if this is a practical means of eliminating termites or if it is done commercially. Tom - Original Message - From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use Speaking of termites - any advice for a environmentally benign way to keep them under control? -Mike Keith Addison wrote: >Hello Wendell > > > > > >>By the way, I seem to recall that termites are the source >>of 20 percent of the world's methane. I am no entomologist --is >>there any known benefit to man or beast from termites? >>If not, let's get 'em! >> >> > >Right, let's kill them all! Termite-caused global warming has to be >stopped in its tracks. There can't be anything important about >termites anyway, I mean they only produce 20% of the world's methane >after all, and only about two-thirds of the world's dead plants go >through termites in the organic matter cycle, obviously they're >totally useless to man and beast. Anyway, if we can wipe them out and >lose that methane maybe we can go right on guzzle-guzzle-guzzling for >a few days or weeks longer before we hit Cold Turkey time on the >fossil fuels. What do you think we should use, DDT or malathion? > >What about the methane from wild ruminants, you forgot about them - >there are millions and millions of antelope and wildebees in the >Serengeti for instance, if we don't go right in there and kill them >they'll just go right on farting. > >Same applies to all these useless creatures, if they can't live >without being so irresponsible then they just have to go. > >Nature knows best, and if Nature was capable of making these >decisions for herself she wouldn't have given us brains to do it for >her, right? > >Best > >Keith > > > > >>Regards, >> >>Wendell >> >> >> >>>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 04:13:55 CST >>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >>> >>> >>>Hi Terry >>> >>>Thanks for finding the ref. >>> >>> >>> Hi Keith, You asked for a link to the the UCS quote. It was from the Green Issue of the Vancouver Sun newspaper in Nov. (Vancouver, BC, Can.) The actual quote was, Methane produced by waste on cattle and hog farms is as hard on the atmospher as 33 million cars. 18% of total global emissions. >>>But 33 million cars is only about 15% of the number of vehicles in >>>the US, let alone globally, how can that equal 18% of global >>>emissions? >>> >>>"Cattle and hog farms" means CAFOs, not farms, or at least in the >>>vast majority of cases. I don't think that's the same as what you >>>said, "the total of all livestock on this planet". >>> >>> >>> >I think the meat industry would account for a lot more than a paltry >33 million cars' worth of GHGs. > > >>>I still think that. The claim of 18% of global emissions from CAFOs >>>doesn't sound unreasonable, but the cars bit can't be right, seems to >>>me. >>> >>>Thanks Terry. >>> >>>Best >>> >>>Keith >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Terry Dyck >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:26:10 +0900 > >Hello Terry > > > >>Hi Kirk, >> >>If all of us did what we should be doing our houses would be one >>room heated with Geo Thermal, hot water and electricity by solar and >>we would walk or bike almost everywere >> >> >This: > > > >>and we would be totally Vegan. >> >> >... is nonsense, as we've established quite thoroughly many times. >Please go to the archives and check it out. > >There is no way of raising crops sustainably without using livestock >in the production system. No vegetarian farming system has ever >survived the test of time. > >Please don't argue about it until you've checked it out, no need to >go over the same old ground yet another time. > > > >>The Union of Concerned Scientists reports that because of the amount >>of Methane gas caused from feed lots, etc. that the total of all >>livestock on this planet is equivalent to taking 33 million cars of >>the road. >> >> >"Feed lots, etc"? What does the "etc" mean? >>
Re: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Don't build from wood. Thats the only surefire method of keeping carpenter ants from eating your house in the northwest. Now, unlike termites, ants don't actually eat wood, as my grandpa delights in telling me. But they chew it up and turn beams into little piles of sawdust, so from a practical standpoint, they might as well. On 3/4/07, Thomas Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mike, For what it's worth: Termites chew the plant matter, including wood, but it is the microbes in their gut that digest it. Termites, like all animals, lack the enzyme cellulase, needed to break down plant cell walls. As I understand it, the microbes are obligate anaerobes and are sensitive to O2. I've heard that high levels of O2 kill their endosymbiotic microbes and the termites then starve to death. I don't know if this is a practical means of eliminating termites or if it is done commercially. Tom - Original Message - From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use Speaking of termites - any advice for a environmentally benign way to keep them under control? -Mike Keith Addison wrote: >Hello Wendell > > > > > >>By the way, I seem to recall that termites are the source >>of 20 percent of the world's methane. I am no entomologist --is >>there any known benefit to man or beast from termites? >>If not, let's get 'em! >> >> > >Right, let's kill them all! Termite-caused global warming has to be >stopped in its tracks. There can't be anything important about >termites anyway, I mean they only produce 20% of the world's methane >after all, and only about two-thirds of the world's dead plants go >through termites in the organic matter cycle, obviously they're >totally useless to man and beast. Anyway, if we can wipe them out and >lose that methane maybe we can go right on guzzle-guzzle-guzzling for >a few days or weeks longer before we hit Cold Turkey time on the >fossil fuels. What do you think we should use, DDT or malathion? > >What about the methane from wild ruminants, you forgot about them - >there are millions and millions of antelope and wildebees in the >Serengeti for instance, if we don't go right in there and kill them >they'll just go right on farting. > >Same applies to all these useless creatures, if they can't live >without being so irresponsible then they just have to go. > >Nature knows best, and if Nature was capable of making these >decisions for herself she wouldn't have given us brains to do it for >her, right? > >Best > >Keith > > > > >>Regards, >> >>Wendell >> >> >> >>>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 04:13:55 CST >>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >>> >>> >>>Hi Terry >>> >>>Thanks for finding the ref. >>> >>> >>> Hi Keith, You asked for a link to the the UCS quote. It was from the Green Issue of the Vancouver Sun newspaper in Nov. (Vancouver, BC, Can.) The actual quote was, Methane produced by waste on cattle and hog farms is as hard on the atmospher as 33 million cars. 18% of total global emissions. >>>But 33 million cars is only about 15% of the number of vehicles in >>>the US, let alone globally, how can that equal 18% of global >>>emissions? >>> >>>"Cattle and hog farms" means CAFOs, not farms, or at least in the >>>vast majority of cases. I don't think that's the same as what you >>>said, "the total of all livestock on this planet". >>> >>> >>> >I think the meat industry would account for a lot more than a paltry >33 million cars' worth of GHGs. > > >>>I still think that. The claim of 18% of global emissions from CAFOs >>>doesn't sound unreasonable, but the cars bit can't be right, seems to >>>me. >>> >>>Thanks Terry. >>> >>>Best >>> >>>Keith >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Terry Dyck >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:26:10 +0900 > >Hello Terry > > > >>Hi Kirk, >> >>If all of us did what we should be doing our houses would be one >>room heated with Geo Thermal, hot water and electricity by solar and >>we would walk or bike almost everywere >> >> >This: > > > >>and we would be totally Vegan. >> >> >... is nonsense, as we've established quite thoroughly many times. >Please go to the archives and check it out. > >There is no way of raising crops sustainably without using livestock >in the production system. No vegetarian farming system has ever >survived the test of time. > >Please don't argue about it until you've checked it out, n
Re: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
arsenic bait so they take it to the queen. If she is gone so is the whole colony of termites. Kirk Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Speaking of termites - any advice for a environmentally benign way to keep them under control? -Mike Keith Addison wrote: >Hello Wendell > > > > > >> By the way, I seem to recall that termites are the source >>of 20 percent of the world's methane. I am no entomologist --is >>there any known benefit to man or beast from termites? >>If not, let's get 'em! >> >> > >Right, let's kill them all! Termite-caused global warming has to be >stopped in its tracks. There can't be anything important about >termites anyway, I mean they only produce 20% of the world's methane >after all, and only about two-thirds of the world's dead plants go >through termites in the organic matter cycle, obviously they're >totally useless to man and beast. Anyway, if we can wipe them out and >lose that methane maybe we can go right on guzzle-guzzle-guzzling for >a few days or weeks longer before we hit Cold Turkey time on the >fossil fuels. What do you think we should use, DDT or malathion? > >What about the methane from wild ruminants, you forgot about them - >there are millions and millions of antelope and wildebees in the >Serengeti for instance, if we don't go right in there and kill them >they'll just go right on farting. > >Same applies to all these useless creatures, if they can't live >without being so irresponsible then they just have to go. > >Nature knows best, and if Nature was capable of making these >decisions for herself she wouldn't have given us brains to do it for >her, right? > >Best > >Keith > > > > >>Regards, >> >>Wendell >> >> >> >>>From: Keith Addison >>>Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 04:13:55 CST >>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >>> >>> >>>Hi Terry >>> >>>Thanks for finding the ref. >>> >>> >>> Hi Keith, You asked for a link to the the UCS quote. It was from the Green Issue of the Vancouver Sun newspaper in Nov. (Vancouver, BC, Can.) The actual quote was, Methane produced by waste on cattle and hog farms is as hard on the atmospher as 33 million cars. 18% of total global emissions. >>>But 33 million cars is only about 15% of the number of vehicles in >>>the US, let alone globally, how can that equal 18% of global >>>emissions? >>> >>>"Cattle and hog farms" means CAFOs, not farms, or at least in the >>>vast majority of cases. I don't think that's the same as what you >>>said, "the total of all livestock on this planet". >>> >>> >>> >I think the meat industry would account for a lot more than a paltry >33 million cars' worth of GHGs. > > >>>I still think that. The claim of 18% of global emissions from CAFOs >>>doesn't sound unreasonable, but the cars bit can't be right, seems to >>>me. >>> >>>Thanks Terry. >>> >>>Best >>> >>>Keith >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Terry Dyck >From: Keith Addison >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use >Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:26:10 +0900 > >Hello Terry > > > >>Hi Kirk, >> >>If all of us did what we should be doing our houses would be one >>room heated with Geo Thermal, hot water and electricity by solar and >>we would walk or bike almost everywere >> >> >This: > > > >>and we would be totally Vegan. >> >> >... is nonsense, as we've established quite thoroughly many times. >Please go to the archives and check it out. > >There is no way of raising crops sustainably without using livestock >in the production system. No vegetarian farming system has ever >survived the test of time. > >Please don't argue about it until you've checked it out, no need to >go over the same old ground yet another time. > > > >>The Union of Concerned Scientists reports that because of the amount >>of Methane gas caused from feed lots, etc. that the total of all >>livestock on this planet is equivalent to taking 33 million cars of >>the road. >> >> >"Feed lots, etc"? What does the "etc" mean? > >I'm sure the amount of GHGs emitted by trees etc is even worse, >should we cut them all down too? > >"Do trees share blame for global warming?" >http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0119/p13s01-sten.html >"Globally, living plants may contribute from 10 to 30 percent of >global methane emissions." > >I haven't seen the UCS report you mention, would you give us a >reference or a link please? > >Anyway you're talking about feedlots, CAFOs, Confined Animal Feeding >Operations, industrialised factory farms. No CAFOs no meat? That's >the same mistake enviros make when they attack fuel ethanol b
Re: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Hi Kirk >arsenic bait so they take it to the queen. If she is gone so is the >whole colony of termites. Do termites actually take the arsenic to the queen? And do they actually eat wood? I thought they use it as a growth medium for their fungi gardens. This is a great read: The Soul of the White Ant Eugène N. Marais http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#marais A classic, filled with charm and wisdom. Best Keith >Kirk > >Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Speaking of termites - any advice for a environmentally benign way to >keep them under control? > >-Mike > >Keith Addison wrote: > > >Hello Wendell > > > > > > > > > > > >> By the way, I seem to recall that termites are the source > >>of 20 percent of the world's methane. I am no entomologist --is > >>there any known benefit to man or beast from termites? > >>If not, let's get 'em! > >> > >> > > > >Right, let's kill them all! Termite-caused global warming has to be > >stopped in its tracks. There can't be anything important about > >termites anyway, I mean they only produce 20% of the world's methane > >after all, and only about two-thirds of the world's dead plants go > >through termites in the organic matter cycle, obviously they're > >totally useless to man and beast. Anyway, if we can wipe them out and > >lose that methane maybe we can go right on guzzle-guzzle-guzzling for > >a few days or weeks longer before we hit Cold Turkey time on the > >fossil fuels. What do you think we should use, DDT or malathion? > > > >What about the methane from wild ruminants, you forgot about them - > >there are millions and millions of antelope and wildebees in the > >Serengeti for instance, if we don't go right in there and kill them > >they'll just go right on farting. > > > >Same applies to all these useless creatures, if they can't live > >without being so irresponsible then they just have to go. > > > >Nature knows best, and if Nature was capable of making these > >decisions for herself she wouldn't have given us brains to do it for > >her, right? > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > > > > > > >>Regards, > >> > >>Wendell > >> > >> > >> > >>>From: Keith Addison > >>>Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 04:13:55 CST > >>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use > >>> > >>> > >>>Hi Terry > >>> > >>>Thanks for finding the ref. > >>> > >>> > >>> > Hi Keith, > > You asked for a link to the the UCS quote. It was from the Green > Issue of the Vancouver Sun newspaper in Nov. (Vancouver, BC, Can.) > The actual quote was, Methane produced by waste on cattle and hog > farms is as hard on the atmospher as 33 million cars. 18% of total > global emissions. > > > >>>But 33 million cars is only about 15% of the number of vehicles in > >>>the US, let alone globally, how can that equal 18% of global > >>>emissions? > >>> > >>>"Cattle and hog farms" means CAFOs, not farms, or at least in the > >>>vast majority of cases. I don't think that's the same as what you > >>>said, "the total of all livestock on this planet". > >>> > >>> > >>> > >I think the meat industry would account for a lot more than a paltry > >33 million cars' worth of GHGs. > > > > > >>>I still think that. The claim of 18% of global emissions from CAFOs > >>>doesn't sound unreasonable, but the cars bit can't be right, seems to > >>>me. > >>> > >>>Thanks Terry. > >>> > >>>Best > >>> > >>>Keith > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Terry Dyck > > > > > >From: Keith Addison > >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use > >Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:26:10 +0900 > > > >Hello Terry > > > > > > > >>Hi Kirk, > >> > >>If all of us did what we should be doing our houses would be one > >>room heated with Geo Thermal, hot water and electricity by solar and > >>we would walk or bike almost everywere > >> > >> > >This: > > > > > > > >>and we would be totally Vegan. > >> > >> > >... is nonsense, as we've established quite thoroughly many times. > >Please go to the archives and check it out. > > > >There is no way of raising crops sustainably without using livestock > >in the production system. No vegetarian farming system has ever > >survived the test of time. > > > >Please don't argue about it until you've checked it out, no need to > >go over the same old ground yet another time. > > > > > > > >>The Union of Concerned Scientists reports that because of the amount > >>of Methane gas caused from feed lots, etc. that the total of all > >>livestock on this planet is equivalent to taking 33 million cars of > >>the road. > >> > >> > >"Feed lots, etc"? What does the "etc" mean? > > > >I'm sure the amount of GHGs emitted
