[svg-developers] Re: blind to "read" by selecting text

[Andreas Neumann]

Jonathan,

I don't claim to be an accessibility expert. But I know enough about 
accessibility to know that it primarily is an issue about the user 
agent and the underlying operating system and not so much an issue 
about the underlying graphics format. It could be, if you help me to 
see where the format can improve accessibility.

As far as selection of text for blind works: SVG 1.2 supports 
focusing elements, e.g. selecting elements or text using the tab key. 
The author can define which elements are focusable. I am sure that 
blind people can find the tab key. But there is no doubt that there 
are accessibility problems when viewing graphics as a blind person. 
Thats a fact.

You always claim that the SVG format doesn't support accessibility 
and it sucks, etc. but I don't see a single useful proposal to 
improve the situation other than general statements (e.g. holistic 
approach, etc.)

Please list now your suggestion on how to improve accessibility in 
the SVG format. Please use precise proposals and not some general 
statements, like "holistic approach" and "SVG sucks", etc.

I also don't see how microformats can help you to improve 
accessibility in a graphics format, a graphics viewer and a graphics 
authoring tool. Please enlighten me.

Andreas


--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Chetwynd 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Andreas,
> 
> how are you proposing that blind people will select text to be read?
> 
> regards
> 
> Jonathan Chetwynd
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 Feb 2007, at 21:49, Andreas Neumann wrote:
> 
>   there even is one SVG viewer that allows to read selected text. 
In  
> Safari Webkit (next version) it is possible to use text to speech 
by  
> using the MacOSX builtin text to speech engine.
>




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[svg-developers] blind to "read" by selecting text

[Jonathan Chetwynd]

Andreas,

how are you proposing that blind people will select text to be read?

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 6 Feb 2007, at 21:49, Andreas Neumann wrote:

  there even is one SVG viewer that allows to read selected text. In  
Safari Webkit (next version) it is possible to use text to speech by  
using the MacOSX builtin text to speech engine.



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[svg-developers] Re: SVG1.1 feature bloat and accessibility buried....

[Jonathan Chetwynd]

Andreas,

your failure to understand that authoring tools, web specifications  
and accessibility all need to be considered together, goes some way  
to explaining the current situation.

W3C relies on a reductionist approach whereas commonsense suggests an  
holistic one, possibly using microformats for each of these three  
groups would offer many benefits.

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 6 Feb 2007, at 21:49, Andreas Neumann wrote:

Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:

> Andreas,
>
> where are the facts that demonstrate the popularity of the SVG1.1   
> spec that you are referring to?

I don't remember making a statement about SVG 1.1s popularity. I just  
said that most or all of the features in SVG 1.1 have use cases in  
one or the other domains.

>
> I'm referring to a spec that helps the average joe on the street  
> to  author.
> presumably you know of ms paint, did you perhaps visit http://  
> www.isketch.org
> by these standards the SVG1.1 spec is extremely bloated.


well, perhaps you mix up authoring tools and a specification/graphics  
format.

So, please be specific. What feature in SVG 1.1 would you like to get  
rid off and why?

>
> Where is the authoring tool that anyone can just pick up and use?  
> say  comparable with the many text editors or tuxpaint?

again, what has the authoring tool to do with the graphics format?

>
> and it's not just that the developers got carried away with  
> feature  bloat, it's that accessibility got buried at the same time.
>
> you fail to mention the accessibility issues.
> there still isn't any accessibility software such as a screen  
> reader  that operates with any SVG viewer. After how many years?


I don't understand how a graphics format/specification should be  
responsible for implementing a screen reader. Isn't this the  
responsibility of the user agent (SVG viewer or web browser)? And  
there even is one SVG viewer that allows to read selected text. In  
Safari Webkit (next version) it is possible to use text to speech by  
using the MacOSX builtin text to speech engine. I am sure other SVG  
viewers could use that engine as well. Same on Windows. Just write  
feature requests to the SVG viewer/browser vendors. This really isn't  
an issue about the graphics format.

> keyboard navigation is being bolted on as an after-thought, in  
> part  because I filed bugs and pester regularly
> audio wasn't included, and yet macromedia's flash took off...

Audio and Video is included in SVG 1.2 Tiny.

> you've found a particular niche, but be aware it isn't the only  
> one,  games frequently rely on sound as do films and animation.
> take a look at tuxpaint to hear how sound can be integrated into  
> the  authoring environment, to literally make music as you draw.

yes, thats one use case - and it will be possible in SVG 1.2 tiny.

>
> there are many other accessibility issues and it's not at all  
> clear  how these will be resolved so very late in the day
>
I am sure there are. But bear in mind that not all formats and  
software (in this case inkscape) is targetted towards kids or  
handicapped persons. Also, if you are very specific and make  
consistent proposals, I am sure your accessibility wishes won't be  
ignored. But just saying this and that is not available and it sucks,  
without being specific or contributing, won't work.

Andreas

-- 
--
Andreas Neumann
Institute of Cartography
ETH Zurich
Wolfgang-Paulistrasse 15
CH-8093  Zurich, Switzerland

Phone: ++41-44-633 3031, Fax: ++41-44-633 1153
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.carto.net/neumann/
SVG.Open: http://www.svgopen.org/
Carto.net: http://www.carto.net/




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[svg-developers] Sketsa SVG Graphics Editor 4.1.0 released

[Tonny Kohar]

Kiyut just released Sketsa SVG Graphics Editor 4.1.0, a cross platform
vector drawing application based on SVG. It features various tools for
optimizing content creation, giving designers unsurpassed support for
creativity. These tools include property palette, source editor,
resources editor, SVG specific shape tools, transformation tools, and
additional illustration tools. Sketsa uses SVG as a native file format.

What's new:
- Add binary CAG - Constructive Area Geometry: Union
- Add binary CAG - Constructive Area Geometry: Subtract
- Add binary CAG - Constructive Area Geometry: Intersect
- Add binary CAG - Constructive Area Geometry: ExclusiveOr
- Add Path Combine
- Add Path Break Apart
- Fix Options / Preferences
- Fix MRUFiles
- Fix Undo Redo
- Fix Webstart
- Fix Rendering on Mac OS X
- Fix Plugins dependency error
- Some Optimization
- Other bug fixes and enhancements

Features:
- SVG native file format
- Produces clean SVG file without proprietary namespaces
- Property palette
- DOM Editor
- Source Editor
- Resource Editor: gradient and filter
- SVG specific shape tools rect, ellipse, line, polyline, polygon
- Additional illustration tools: Pencil tool for freeform shape and Pen
tool for curve shape
- Transformation tool: rotate, skew, scale, and translate
- Basic Text Tool
- Export or rasterize to JPEG and PNG
- Plugins Support

For more information about Sketsa SVG Graphics Editor, please visit
http://www.kiyut.com/products/sketsa/index.html

Check out the screenshot at
http://www.kiyut.com/products/sketsa/screenshot.html

Check out the web start at
http://www.kiyut.com/products/sketsa/webstart/sketsa.jnlp

Regards
Kiyut Development Teams
-- 
Sketsa 
SVG Graphics Editor
http://www.kiyut.com



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Re: [svg-developers] Installing libbatik-java 1.5.1-1 in Debian/Linux

[Cameron McCormack]

Hi Gary.

garyroger57:
> I currently have an svg batik version installed directly from Apache,
> the xml-batik distribution. This has the scripts to build and run the
> svg-rasterizer.
> 
> However, because I need a Debian distribution, I have downloaded and
> installed the above Debian package into my Linux OS. I have expanded
> the batik.jar file, but it is not clear on how to build the
> executables. There are no scripts...or are these meant to be
> executable jar files? That didn't work either!

I just installed libbatik-java 1.6-3 to see what’s in it.  It installs a
shell script /usr/bin/rasterizer which ostensibly launches the
rasterizer, but it doesn’t seem to work for me (I get a security
exception).  Maybe your 1.5.1-1 doesn’t have this problem.  If you don’t
get a script like this, you can run the rasterizer from the jar.  If you
get a batik-all.jar somewhere (like /usr/share/java), you should be able
to start it with:

  java -classpath /usr/share/java/batik-all.jar 
org.apache.batik.apps.rasterizer.Main

-- 
Cameron McCormack, http://mcc.id.au/
xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ▪  ICQ 26955922  ▪  MSN [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[svg-developers] Installing libbatik-java 1.5.1-1 in Debian/Linux

[garyroger57]

Hello:

I currently have an svg batik version installed directly from Apache,
the xml-batik distribution. This has the scripts to build and run the
svg-rasterizer.

However, because I need a Debian distribution, I have downloaded and
installed the above Debian package into my Linux OS. I have expanded
the batik.jar file, but it is not clear on how to build the
executables. There are no scripts...or are these meant to be
executable jar files? That didn't work either!

Anyones help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary.






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Re: [svg-developers] Renesis SVG Player 0.5 launches

[Guy Morton]

Good  to see progress being made, though this version of the plugin  
still doesn't run my app... looks like scripting may still be not  
quite there?

Anyone else tried it out?

Guy

On 06/02/2007, at 1:52 AM, emiasys wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Just a short notice that Renesis SVG Player 0.5 has been launched. Go
> to http://www.emiasys.net for more details.
>
> Regards
> Emia Systems Renesis Dev Team
>
>
>
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> my membership"
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



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Re: [svg-developers] Re: feDisplacementMap problem

[David Dailey]

Here are some examples using feDisplacementMap

http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/waves.html (has animation 
so might not work in FF)

http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/Turbulence1.svg

http://marble.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/embedeleven.html (only in IE)
http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/eggcloning3.svg (only in IE)

and then these (all at 
http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/Newlist.htm)

filterDisplacementMap5a.svg
 
: feDisplacementMap : linearGradient
filterDisplacementMap.svg
 
: feTurbulence : feDisplacementMap
filterDisplacementMap2
 
: feTurbulence : feDisplacementMap : radialGradient : spreadMethod="reflect"
filterDisplacementMap4.svg
 
: feDisplacementMap : feTurbulence : onmousemove
filterDisplacementMap4a.svg
 
:  feDisplacementMap : feTurbulence : onmousemove : feImage
filterDisplacementMap9.svg
 
: feDisplacementMap : pattern : checkerboard


I'm not sure if any of them answer your question, but it seems like 
some of them are doing the sorts of things you are asking about.

cheers,
David 



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[svg-developers] SVG1.1 feature bloat and accessibility buried....

[Jonathan Chetwynd]

Andreas,

where are the facts that demonstrate the popularity of the SVG1.1  
spec that you are referring to?

I'm referring to a spec that helps the average joe on the street to  
author.
presumably you know of ms paint, did you perhaps visit http:// 
www.isketch.org
by these standards the SVG1.1 spec is extremely bloated.

Where is the authoring tool that anyone can just pick up and use? say  
comparable with the many text editors or tuxpaint?

and it's not just that the developers got carried away with feature  
bloat, it's that accessibility got buried at the same time.

you fail to mention the accessibility issues.
there still isn't any accessibility software such as a screen reader  
that operates with any SVG viewer. After how many years?
keyboard navigation is being bolted on as an after-thought, in part  
because I filed bugs and pester regularly
audio wasn't included, and yet macromedia's flash took off...
you've found a particular niche, but be aware it isn't the only one,  
games frequently rely on sound as do films and animation.
take a look at tuxpaint to hear how sound can be integrated into the  
authoring environment, to literally make music as you draw.

there are many other accessibility issues and it's not at all clear  
how these will be resolved so very late in the day

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 6 Feb 2007, at 20:23, Andreas Neumann wrote:


 > It has to be admitted the SVG1.1 spec is imho far too bloated and
 > basic accessibility isn't included
 > later specs are even more bloated, and I much prefer RAD and the
 > microformat conceptually.

Thats a very general statement that isn't really supported by facts.
I don't think its bloated. It might be bloated for certain specific
use cases, but for other use cases it definitely isn't bloated. I
can't really say that any SVG 1.1 feature is useless. If you can,
which one would you choose to abandon? I am sure many people would
object.

As to later specs: The SVG WG would have prefered to outsource
certain features to other W3C WGs/specs, but at the time SVG 1.2 was
designed there was nothing around that would fit the needs. It is
certainly true that certain features in SVG 1.2 would be better
standardized outside the scope of SVG, but someone has to take the
lead and do the work. Over time, this will happen anyway.

 > having said which, the inkscape interface is extremely busy.
 > commercial applications develop bloat, because developers like it
and
 > it ties users into buying upgrades.
 >
 > however many people, and children in particular prefer simpler
 > interfaces such as "paint" or isketch.org.

But that's another target audience. I agree that children prefer
other user interfaces, but the inkscape folks are probably not
targetting kids.

 > in 2004 after discussions with bryce: [ 1081266 ] Child friendly
 > version? (OLPC?)
 > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
 > func=detail&aid=1081266&group_id=93438&atid=604309
 >
 > since 2006 the concept has been superceded or overtaken by web2.0
and
 > the user as author.
 > this could for instance include annotation, labelling and more in
a
 > game-like experience.
 >
 > it would betray a confidence to describe the requirements further.

that can and should be done for a different target audience and maybe
as a different product, or a fork of the product.

Andreas






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[svg-developers] Re: What do you love and hate about Inkscape ? (getting coders and clickers to coop

[Jayne De Sesa]

Hi,

I've uploaded a file here (ActiveX.png) that shows my difficulty with using 
Inkscape. It's a 
headache to install on my Mac!

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "steltenpower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Inkscape is a rather popular tool.
> Many artists use it a lot. Coders (of SVG webapplications) are not
> that much of fans, many rather handcode everything.
> 
> Is Inkscape wrong for you?
> Why?
> When?
> 
> Do you have problems with SVG that someone obviously created with
> Inkscape? 
> Why?
> When?
> 
> Could things be improved?
> Do you have specific suggestions?
> Ideas for implementation strategies?
> 
> That would be helpful information for the Inkscape community.
> You could also go the LibreGraphicsMeeting and meet up, present about
> what SVG is used for apart from 'just pretty pictures' and show what
> problems Inkscape raises to SVGcoders, solve some things
> 
> And of course coders are welcome to help improve through coding
>



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[svg-developers] Re: SVG1.1 feature bloat and accessibility buried....

[Andreas Neumann]

Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:

> Andreas,
>
> where are the facts that demonstrate the popularity of the SVG1.1  
> spec that you are referring to?

I don't remember making a statement about SVG 1.1s popularity. I just 
said that most or all of the features in SVG 1.1 have use cases in one 
or the other domains.

>
> I'm referring to a spec that helps the average joe on the street to  
> author.
> presumably you know of ms paint, did you perhaps visit http:// 
> www.isketch.org
> by these standards the SVG1.1 spec is extremely bloated.


well, perhaps you mix up authoring tools and a specification/graphics 
format.

So, please be specific. What feature in SVG 1.1 would you like to get 
rid off and why?

>
> Where is the authoring tool that anyone can just pick up and use? say  
> comparable with the many text editors or tuxpaint?

again, what has the authoring tool to do with the graphics format?

>
> and it's not just that the developers got carried away with feature  
> bloat, it's that accessibility got buried at the same time.
>
> you fail to mention the accessibility issues.
> there still isn't any accessibility software such as a screen reader  
> that operates with any SVG viewer. After how many years?


I don't understand how a graphics format/specification should be 
responsible for implementing a screen reader. Isn't this the 
responsibility of the user agent (SVG viewer or web browser)? And there 
even is one SVG viewer that allows to read selected text. In Safari 
Webkit (next version) it is possible to use text to speech by using the 
MacOSX builtin text to speech engine. I am sure other SVG viewers could 
use that engine as well. Same on Windows. Just write feature requests to 
the SVG viewer/browser vendors. This really isn't an issue about the 
graphics format.

> keyboard navigation is being bolted on as an after-thought, in part  
> because I filed bugs and pester regularly
> audio wasn't included, and yet macromedia's flash took off...

Audio and Video is included in SVG 1.2 Tiny.

> you've found a particular niche, but be aware it isn't the only one,  
> games frequently rely on sound as do films and animation.
> take a look at tuxpaint to hear how sound can be integrated into the  
> authoring environment, to literally make music as you draw.

yes, thats one use case - and it will be possible in SVG 1.2 tiny.

>
> there are many other accessibility issues and it's not at all clear  
> how these will be resolved so very late in the day
>
I am sure there are. But bear in mind that not all formats and software 
(in this case inkscape) is targetted towards kids or handicapped 
persons. Also, if you are very specific and make consistent proposals, I 
am sure your accessibility wishes won't be ignored. But just saying this 
and that is not available and it sucks, without being specific or 
contributing, won't work.

Andreas

-- 
--
Andreas Neumann
Institute of Cartography
ETH Zurich
Wolfgang-Paulistrasse 15
CH-8093  Zurich, Switzerland

Phone: ++41-44-633 3031, Fax: ++41-44-633 1153
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.carto.net/neumann/
SVG.Open: http://www.svgopen.org/
Carto.net: http://www.carto.net/



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[svg-developers] Re: Child friendly version? (OLPC?) was: What do you love and hate about Inkscape ?

[Andreas Neumann]

> It has to be admitted the SVG1.1 spec is imho far too bloated and  
> basic accessibility isn't included
> later specs are even more bloated, and I much prefer RAD and the  
> microformat conceptually.

Thats a very general statement that isn't really supported by facts. 
I don't think its bloated. It might be bloated for certain specific 
use cases, but for other use cases it definitely isn't bloated. I 
can't really say that any SVG 1.1 feature is useless. If you can, 
which one would you choose to abandon? I am sure many people would 
object.

As to later specs: The SVG WG would have prefered to outsource 
certain features to other W3C WGs/specs, but at the time SVG 1.2 was 
designed there was nothing around that would fit the needs. It is 
certainly true that certain features in SVG 1.2 would be better 
standardized outside the scope of SVG, but someone has to take the 
lead and do the work. Over time, this will happen anyway.

> having said which, the inkscape interface is extremely busy.
> commercial applications develop bloat, because developers like it 
and  
> it ties users into buying upgrades.
> 
> however many people, and children in particular prefer simpler  
> interfaces such as "paint" or isketch.org.

But that's another target audience. I agree that children prefer 
other user interfaces, but the inkscape folks are probably not 
targetting kids.


> in 2004 after discussions with bryce: [ 1081266 ] Child friendly  
> version? (OLPC?)
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? 
> func=detail&aid=1081266&group_id=93438&atid=604309
> 
> since 2006 the concept has been superceded or overtaken by web2.0 
and  
> the user as author.
> this could for instance include annotation, labelling and more in 
a  
> game-like experience.
> 
> it would betray a confidence to describe the requirements further.

that can and should be done for a different target audience and maybe 
as a different product, or a fork of the product.

Andreas



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[svg-developers] Child friendly version? (OLPC?) was: What do you love and hate about Inkscape ?

[Jonathan Chetwynd]

It has to be admitted the SVG1.1 spec is imho far too bloated and  
basic accessibility isn't included
later specs are even more bloated, and I much prefer RAD and the  
microformat conceptually.

having said which, the inkscape interface is extremely busy.
commercial applications develop bloat, because developers like it and  
it ties users into buying upgrades.

however many people, and children in particular prefer simpler  
interfaces such as "paint" or isketch.org.
in 2004 after discussions with bryce: [ 1081266 ] Child friendly  
version? (OLPC?)
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? 
func=detail&aid=1081266&group_id=93438&atid=604309

since 2006 the concept has been superceded or overtaken by web2.0 and  
the user as author.
this could for instance include annotation, labelling and more in a  
game-like experience.

it would betray a confidence to describe the requirements further.

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 6 Feb 2007, at 06:08, steltenpower wrote:

Inkscape is a rather popular tool.
Many artists use it a lot. Coders (of SVG webapplications) are not
that much of fans, many rather handcode everything.

Is Inkscape wrong for you?
Why?
When?

Do you have problems with SVG that someone obviously created with
Inkscape?
Why?
When?

Could things be improved?
Do you have specific suggestions?
Ideas for implementation strategies?

That would be helpful information for the Inkscape community.
You could also go the LibreGraphicsMeeting and meet up, present about
what SVG is used for apart from 'just pretty pictures' and show what
problems Inkscape raises to SVGcoders, solve some things

And of course coders are welcome to help improve through coding






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[svg-developers] inkscape: limit significant figures

[Jonathan Chetwynd]

Chaals and others..

a thread on this topic was started here: http://sourceforge.net/ 
mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=37178316

and a feature request filed today ~:"
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? 
func=detail&aid=1653534&group_id=93438&atid=604309

cheers

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 6 Feb 2007, at 14:58, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 11:38:00 +0530, steltenpower  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 > Inkscape is a rather popular tool.
 > Many artists use it a lot. Coders (of SVG webapplications) are not
 > that much of fans, many rather handcode everything.
 >
 > Is Inkscape wrong for you?

Sometimes. Other people have already explained a bunch of good things  
about it,
but there are a couple of things I don't like:

1. Too much precision in values. Often I would rather have things  
forced to *lower*
precision, for easy code readability, manipulation, and small file size.

Being able to set the precision would be nice.

2. Too much stuff added in magic namespaces that doesn't seem to do  
anything.

Being able to export to "clean SVG" (optionally with a choice of  
target version)
would be nice.

When I hand-edit the code I often get a reduction of around one order of
magnitude for no loss...

cheers

Chaals

-- 
Charles McCathieNevile, Opera Software: Standards Group
hablo español - je parle français - jeg lærer norsk
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Try Opera 9.1 http://opera.com





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[svg-developers] About zoonm in and zoon out

[jordangcsnt]

Hello I have a list of diferents diagramas and I want to show them in
a little canvas, someone knows  how can i put the diagraman in the
middle and how can i show it like when you click the right button
mouse to reduce the zoom, thanks



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Re: [svg-developers] svg cartoon for cellphones

[Charles McCathieNevile]

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:40:24 +0530, transkawa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> How can a newbie best build svg cartoons for mobile phones? Do I need
> any special equipment other than an svg editor and viewer? Much help
> needed. Can I also get freeware somewhere or shareware for
> distributing this svg cartoons free to my friends, colleagues etc
> cellphones?

If they have an SVG-capable browser on the phone, or a web-capable viewer, then 
all you need is a website to put the cartoons on. Although it needs to serve 
them as SVG - there was a thread here a while ago about that because some hosts 
don't do that properly by default.

cheers

Chaals

-- 
Charles McCathieNevile, Opera Software: Standards Group
hablo español - je parle français - jeg lærer norsk
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Try Opera 9.1 http://opera.com


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Re: [svg-developers] Additive animation using 'by' attribute in animationTransform doesn't work?

[Bjoern Hoehrmann]

* clog_meister wrote:
>Problem: I want to continue an animationTransform from the y position
>it was 'frozen' to. The object is moved by 50 pixels along the y-axis
>(that works). After it stops I want it to go back 20 pixels along the
>y-axis from where it ended up (that doesn't work as expected).
>However, the effect is that the object is repainted at its original
>position and then goes back 20 pixels.

So use two animations like

  

  
  

  

A certain broken implementation insists on the additive="sum" here,
perhaps that was your problem.

>I read a lot of material including the SVG standard and example code
>>from Opera and many, many others. I experimented with the 'additive'
>and 'accumulate' attributes. I also tinkered with prev.begin,
>prev.end, beginElement() and endElement(). All without success.

Note that prev.begin and prev.end are proprietary extensions that won't
work across implementations (unless you have an id="prev" somewhere).

>Can someone tell me how I can force animationTransform to retain the
>last 'freeze' position and animate from there? Or point me to a
>tutorial in which this behavior is explained? 
>
>In code I made something like this:
>(note: svgO is the animated object)
>
>  var animation;
>  
>  animation = svgO.ownerDocument.createElementNS(
>'http://www.w3.org/2000/svg', 'animateTransform' );

Note that dynamically creating animation elements, especially after
the document has begun, is highly problematic and does not work well
across implementations.

>  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'by',  '0, -20' );
>  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'dur', 3 );

Changing animation elements after they have begun and while they are
in the document tree is even more problematic. If at all possible you
should use them only directly as markup. If you have to use scripting
you should consider to script the animation instead of using SMIL.
-- 
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
Weinh. Str. 22 · Telefon: +49(0)621/4309674 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
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[svg-developers] Re: feDisplacementMap problem

[Richard Pearman]

Hi

Nobody answered so I guess not many people has experience with this 
element.  I played about with it and discovered that it distorted if 
I increased the value of the scale attribute.  Also the image I was 
using didn't cause much distotion in the region where most the object 
I was using it on was located.  Anyway you should be able to see the 
result in the last frame of the next update of my comic (link in sig) 
which is going up today or tomorrow (probably).

Richard Pearman   http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
 The next stage in the evolution of web comics: 
 http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Pearman" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>  
> I'm trying to draw reflections on a ripling pond using a filter 
with 
> feDisplacementMap.  I've tryed generating the image (for in2) with 
an 
> feTurbulence element and from a jpg using an feImage element but 
> neither works.  For some reason the object the filter is applied to 
> only becomes darker.  This is the filter (version using jpg):
>  
> 
>   
>
> xChannelSelector="R" yChannelSelector="R"/>
>   
>  
> Does anybody know please?
>  
> Richard Pearman   http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
> The next stage in the evolution of web comics: 
> http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415
>




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Re: [svg-developers] Additive animation using 'by' attribute in animationTransform doesn't work?

[Charles McCathieNevile]

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:01:37 +0530, clog_meister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Can someone tell me how I can force animationTransform to retain the
> last 'freeze' position and animate from there? Or point me to a
> tutorial in which this behavior is explained?

I think you need to freeze and to make the animations additive="sum"

There is an example I wrote at the end of 
http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/animating-your-svg/ 
but it doesn't actually explain that point much...

cheers

Chaals

-- 
Charles McCathieNevile, Opera Software: Standards Group
hablo español - je parle français - jeg lærer norsk
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Try Opera 9.1 http://opera.com


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Re: [svg-developers] Application for Drawing SSM Diagrams

[John Paterson]

Hi Ronan,

Just to say thanks  as Eclipse works a treat.

>From: Ronan Oger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
>To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Application for Drawing SSM Diagrams
>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:21:22 +0100
>
>your problem is not related to OS version, i have used batik producs in 
>winxp
>without problems.
>
>batik comes in a zip file. unzip it in a directory, enter the directory on 
>the
>command line, and type the following:
>
>   java -jar batik-squiggle.jar
>
>If this works, your files are correctly installed.
>
>As far as getting a proprietary IDE to find the source files, all I can say 
>is
>use eclipse, it works very well. If you insist on using the Netbans IDE, 
>try
>reading the doc. Most likely you need to import the jar files in your
>CLASSPATH, or some proprietary equivalent.
>
>Good luck, and RTFM :-)
>
>Ronan
>
>On Sunday 28 January 2007 23:46, ext.paterson wrote:
> > Good Evening,
> >
> > I'm a student in my 4th year at university and I have to do an honours
> > project. I have chosen to make a SSM Drawing tool which will make use
> > of SVG and the program is run by Java. Is it ok to ask you all for
> > advice as i go along in my project, i'm not going to ask you to do it
> > for me as it is something that i will have to do.
> >
> > I have recently downloaded Batik 1.6 to start my project, however i am
> > having difficulties getting it to work. When i use the command
> > prompt/console to unpack the files, it doesnt recognise the commands.
> > Is the reason for this not working the fact that i use Windows XP home
> > edition?
> >
> > Also I am having difficulties getting the modules to work will/be
> > called  by Netbeans 5.0 IDE. Could someone give me instructions how to
> > get this working as I cant get further with regards to the programming
> > aspect of my project.
> >
> > I am very grateful,
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > John Paterson
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe send a message to:
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> > membership" 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>--
>Ronan Oger lailing list account
>http://www.roitsystems.com
>http://www.roasp.com

_
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Re: [svg-developers] examples of xpath with svg

[ddailey]

Thanks Björn  -- my tendency is to nullify parameters I don't understand -- now 
it's starting to sink in a bit, I think.

cheers,
David

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [svg-developers] examples of xpath with svg

[Bjoern Hoehrmann]

* ddailey wrote:
>var c = document.evaluate( "//*[5]", document, null, XPathResult.ANY_TYPE, 
>null );

Here the third paramater is an XPathNSResolver which you specify as null
which implies you cannot use namespace prefixes in your expressions. Use
an actual resolver instead, for example,

  function mynsresolver(prefix) {
if (prefix == "svg")
  return "http://www.w3.org/2000/svg";;
return null;
  }

and then

  ...evaluate("//svg:circle", document, mynsresolver, ...

The alternative would be to write your expressions like so:

  *[local-name() = 'circle' and namespace-uri() = 'http://www...' ]
-- 
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
Weinh. Str. 22 · Telefon: +49(0)621/4309674 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
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Re: [svg-developers] Re: examples of xpath with svg

[ddailey]

My thanks once again Martin:

 var xpathResult = document.evaluate('//svg:circle', document, function 
lookupNamespaceURI (prefix) { switch (prefix) { case 'svg': return 
'http://www.w3.org/2000/svg'; default: return '' } }, 
XPathResult.UNORDERED_NODE_SNAPSHOT_TYPE, null);
 should keep me busy for at least a while!regards,David

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[svg-developers] Additive animation using 'by' attribute in animationTransform doesn't work?

[clog_meister]

Hi,

I'm fairly new to SVG and I'm trying to solve an annoying little
problem that keeps me busy for a whole day now.

Problem: I want to continue an animationTransform from the y position
it was 'frozen' to. The object is moved by 50 pixels along the y-axis
(that works). After it stops I want it to go back 20 pixels along the
y-axis from where it ended up (that doesn't work as expected).
However, the effect is that the object is repainted at its original
position and then goes back 20 pixels.

I read a lot of material including the SVG standard and example code
from Opera and many, many others. I experimented with the 'additive'
and 'accumulate' attributes. I also tinkered with prev.begin,
prev.end, beginElement() and endElement(). All without success.

Can someone tell me how I can force animationTransform to retain the
last 'freeze' position and animate from there? Or point me to a
tutorial in which this behavior is explained? 

In code I made something like this:
(note: svgO is the animated object)

  var animation;
  
  animation = svgO.ownerDocument.createElementNS(
'http://www.w3.org/2000/svg', 'animateTransform' );

  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'attributeName', 'transform' );
  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'type', 'translate' );
  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'restart', 'always' );
  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'begin', 'indefinite' );
  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'end', 'indefinite' );
  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'fill', 'freeze' );

  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'by',  '0, 50' );
  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'dur', 5 );

  /*
   * Link the animation to the target
   */
  svgO.appendChild( animation );

  alert("Begin first animation");
  animation.beginElement();

  alert("Stop first animation");
  animation.endElement();

  alert("Start second animation");
  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'by',  '0, -20' );
  animation.setAttributeNS( null, 'dur', 3 );
  animation.beginElement();

  alert("Stop second animation");
  animation.endElement();

Rick



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[svg-developers] Re: examples of xpath with svg

[Martin Honnen]

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "ddailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Can anyone point me to some really simple working examples of the
use of XPATH in SVG?

SVG elements are in the SVG namespace with namespace URI
http://www.w3.org/2000/svg so for XPath 1.0 you need a namespace
resolver that maps a prefix you can choose to that namespace URI:


Or you define a prefix in your SVG document and have the
createNSResolver do the work for you





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[svg-developers] examples of xpath with svg

[ddailey]

I have been fussing around a bit with xpath as a more concise format for 
selecting nodes (than looping or recursing through levels of the DOM tree)

The examples by Georg Held (at carto.net -- 
http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/samples/xslt/ ) using XSLT have made me think 
it is finally time for me to get around to learning xslt and xpath. 

What I've read about xpath in IE, makes me think I may wait 'til IE8 to worry 
about that -- but for FF and Opera I've played a bit with some things.

I am able to find SVG nodes in a limited way with a statement like:

var c = document.evaluate( "//*[5]", document, null, XPathResult.ANY_TYPE, null 
);
 
where the expression "//*[5]" seems to match the fifth node in an SVG DOM, just 
fine. (I gather xpath uses 1-based subscripts rather than the 0-based 
subscripts of JavaScript -- just to keep us on our toes, I suppose.)

The problem is that I can't seem to get anything more general 
like  "rect" or ".//ellipse" or "//circle" to find a collection of named tags 
-- even though my code for doing such does work fine in XHTML.

Can anyone point me to some really simple working examples of the use of XPATH 
in SVG?

thanks in advance,
David

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [svg-developers] svg editor for mobile devices and/or pc

[ddailey]

transkawa wrote:

"where can I get a freeware or shareware standalone svg editor and 
viewer."

Inkscape (being discussed in another thread here today) is well worth looking 
at.

cheers,
David Dailey

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Re: [svg-developers] What do you love and hate about Inkscape ? (getting coders and clickers to coop

[Charles McCathieNevile]

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 11:38:00 +0530, steltenpower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Inkscape is a rather popular tool.
> Many artists use it a lot. Coders (of SVG webapplications) are not
> that much of fans, many rather handcode everything.
>
> Is Inkscape wrong for you?

Sometimes. Other people have already explained a bunch of good things about it, 
but there are a couple of things I don't like:

1. Too much precision in values. Often I would rather have things forced to 
*lower* 
precision, for easy code readability, manipulation, and small file size.

Being able to set the precision would be nice.

2. Too much stuff added in magic namespaces that doesn't seem to do anything.

Being able to export to "clean SVG" (optionally with a choice of target 
version) 
would be nice.

When I hand-edit the code I often get a reduction of around one order of 
magnitude for no loss...

cheers

Chaals

-- 
Charles McCathieNevile, Opera Software: Standards Group
hablo español - je parle français - jeg lærer norsk
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Try Opera 9.1 http://opera.com


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[svg-developers] svg editor for mobile devices and/or pc

[transkawa]

where can I get a freeware or shareware standalone svg editor and 
viewer. Am new to svg, although somewhat adept with xml but intend 
deploying the codes I  write in 14 days, can anyone suggest other 
useful information to me along with participation in this forum? Due 
to constraints of my environment, I intend coding mainly for mobile 
devices so pls take the question as being for svg and svg mobile 
or /or/ if the tools, etc come separately.
Thanks everyone. 




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[svg-developers] svg cartoon for cellphones

[transkawa]

How can a newbie best build svg cartoons for mobile phones? Do I need 
any special equipment other than an svg editor and viewer? Much help 
needed. Can I also get freeware somewhere or shareware for  
distributing this svg cartoons free to my friends, colleagues etc 
cellphones?  
Thks in advance. 




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[svg-developers] SVG Optimisation [SVG Optimizer]

[Joseph]

Hi,

Just a quick note on the Extensible SVG Optimizer which was announced
here.

However, the project discontinued for some time but happy to announce
 that is it continuing again after the break.

The new website link to the SVG Optimisation project

http://www.svgoptimiser.com
or
http://www.svgoptimizer.com


A new version is under development therefore comments, suggestions and
extensions are more than welcome.

best regards,




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[svg-developers] Re: What do you love and hate about Inkscape ? (getting coders and clickers to coop

[Andreas Neumann]

I think Inkscape is a very powerful editor that is already good but 
several things could be improved.

What I like:
* based on SVG
* many features
* multi-platform
* free
* XML Editor to access source tree
* all the powerful path operations (simplify, union, intersect, etc.)

What should be improved:
* I don't like the way they write all presentation attributes into 
the style attribute. I would like a setting where all the attributes 
are written out as presentation attributes. This shouldn't be to hard 
to implement
* nested svgs with viewBoxes aren't handled correctly, this is quite 
typical with mapping data. I could provide examples if someone works 
on this.

Just my two cents ...
Andreas



--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "steltenpower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Inkscape is a rather popular tool.
> Many artists use it a lot. Coders (of SVG webapplications) are not
> that much of fans, many rather handcode everything.
> 
> Is Inkscape wrong for you?
> Why?
> When?
> 
> Do you have problems with SVG that someone obviously created with
> Inkscape? 
> Why?
> When?
> 
> Could things be improved?
> Do you have specific suggestions?
> Ideas for implementation strategies?
> 
> That would be helpful information for the Inkscape community.
> You could also go the LibreGraphicsMeeting and meet up, present 
about
> what SVG is used for apart from 'just pretty pictures' and show what
> problems Inkscape raises to SVGcoders, solve some things
> 
> And of course coders are welcome to help improve through coding
>




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Re: [svg-developers] What do you love and hate about Inkscape ? (getting coders and clickers to coop

[Martyn Eggleton]

I quiet like Inkscape but I have a  few issues with it and indeed all 
the current SVG editors I know of. (I am happy to be pointed at editors 
that don't have these issues or indeed just be plain corrected if I'm 
wrtong or missing something)

   1. Inkscape
 1. Not having a straight source editor(the xml editor is great
but being able to muck with the text directly would stop me
having to have the file open in a text editor as well).
 2. having images with windows file paths.
 3. Not being able to base64 encode and embed images.
   2. Features I'd like to see in all editors

 1. The choice of which spec to work to. Being able to choose
between SVG 1.0 / 1.1 / 1.2 and possibly SVGT and only be
offered features that fall within those specs.
 2. Choice of target platform or at least target feature
strings. i.e. being able to specify what you expect to work
in the browser and only be offered features that fit that.
 3. Possibly even a choice of coding styles i.e. using classes
for all styling or keeping the styling inline with the content.
 4. SVG font support.
 5. Command line switches / or permenant prefences for things
like clean svg output and the above options.
 6. refactorors (AI's ability to change you code to produce the
most effecinet reprentation of your image is great but only
when you want it, the ability to turn this off would be good)

Tar. for reminding me that I hadn't mentioned these to any one (they 
came up when a less SVG experienced colleauge ended up bashing his head 
against a wall trying to design  a prototype in Inkscape pass it to a 
designer who used AI and then rasterize it in rsvg. Lots of random tags and

steltenpower wrote:
>
> Inkscape is a rather popular tool.
> Many artists use it a lot. Coders (of SVG webapplications) are not
> that much of fans, many rather handcode everything.
>
> Is Inkscape wrong for you?
> Why?
> When?
>
> Do you have problems with SVG that someone obviously created with
> Inkscape?
> Why?
> When?
>
> Could things be improved?
> Do you have specific suggestions?
> Ideas for implementation strategies?
>
> That would be helpful information for the Inkscape community.
> You could also go the LibreGraphicsMeeting and meet up, present about
> what SVG is used for apart from 'just pretty pictures' and show what
> problems Inkscape raises to SVGcoders, solve some things
>
> And of course coders are welcome to help improve through coding
>
>  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [svg-developers] Patterns

[Erik Dahlström]

Have you tried using fill="currentColor" inside the pattern? Then you  
should be able to set the 'color'-attribute on the element that references  
the pattern and have it used in the pattern.

Hope this helps
/Erik

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:01:47 +0100, Carroll, Brendan M.  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'll give it a try. I guess in this case I'd have to pass the color as
> an argument and on load swap the fill from blue to another color value.
> Will this work if I have multiple shapes referencing the same pattern
> def?
>
>
> Brendan Carroll
> Senior Developer
> Baltimore GIS Manager
> GeoDecisions(r)
> Suite A, 4701 Mount Hope Drive
> Baltimore, MD. 21215
> (410) 585-1460 Office
> (443) 610-5650 Cell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> 
>
> From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ddailey
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 10:53 AM
> To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Patterns
>
>
> Brendan asks about dynamically changing the content of a pattern.
>
> defs>
>  x="0" y="0" width="20" height="20"
> viewBox="0 0 15 15" >
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> I thought I had an example around somewhere but didn't find it easily...
> Yes, what you wish to do can be done.
>
> I'd do something like
>
> changePattern("checkerPattern","newPatternGroup")
>
> where:
> function changepattern(id,newgroupid){
> var P=document.getElementById(id)
> for (i in P.childnodes){
> P.removeChild(P.items(i))
> }
> //above should clean out the existing stuff in the pattern
> //then add the new stuff
> var G=document.getElementById(newgroupid)
> P.appendChild(G)
> }
>
> where newPatternGroup would be a group (probably defined in )
> containing the elements of the new pattern.
>
> I think that oughta work in browsers that support 
>
> hope this helps
> David
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


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