Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
David O'Brien wrote: > > I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages: > > - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA. > > I'm sorry I disagree. You're complaining about something that is > a feature of FreeBSD 1.x, 2.0 - 3.0, 4.4BSD, all NetBSD versions, > all OpenBSD versions, Sprite, and the Open Group's Open Development > Environment make. OpenBSD's make does not produce this spew. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
At 10:57 AM -0700 1/30/09, M. Warner Losh wrote: In message: <20090130173956.ga9...@dragon.nuxi.org> "David O'Brien" writes: : : 100,000 of things change within FreeBSD without discission that : displeases some set of folks. That's nothing new, but I'm : restoring compatibility and functionailty, not removing it. Don't you have any ability to judge that this might be a bad thing? So far the voting I solicited is 100% in favor of getting rid of what you did... Usually that implies it is a bad commit... In case someone is collecting votes, I'd also vote against the extra output. The sad thing is that somewhere I have changes to 'make' which added debugging option that helped a lot with parallel builds. One big difference was that it was an option, which could be turned on via some environment variable or something. I haven't the faintest idea what I did with that change though. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = dros...@rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or g...@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
Dmitry Marakasov wrote: ... --- obj --- --- _proginstall --- sh /usr/src/tools/install.sh -s -o root -g wheel -m 555 ctfmerge /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/bin ===> games/fortune/strfile (obj,depend,all,install) etc. I wondered what that weird crap was in my buildworld the other day. Can we leave that turned off please? It's confusing and makes things unreadable. thanks, BMS ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 09:36:51PM +, Dmitry Marakasov wrote: > due to multiple cores usage. And sideeffects of SMP of course, like > garbled kernel output (kernel: seScyonncdisn)g fdoirs kssy,s tvenmo > dperso > creesmsa i`nsiynngc.e.r.' to3 stop...0 0 done) :) > Which should be of course fixed. YES and we've lived with that for over a year. Who do I complain to about the bad issue that I often cannot see console messages due to them being garbled?!? What commit can we vote on to back out to get back the real functionality of fully usable console output? > Actually, what we need is standartize some basic knobs for -j support > in ports, like: After discussing it on and off with Kris Kennaway and Mark Linimon since 2005. I finally submitted http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/122120 Hoping that would get more traction, as only portmgr can really make this happen. But doesn't seem to have. There is also http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/113132 -- -- David (obr...@freebsd.org) ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
In message: <20090130180410.gd9...@dragon.nuxi.org> "David O'Brien" writes: : On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:51:00AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > In message: <20090130173953.ga9...@dragon.nuxi.org> : > "David O'Brien" writes: : > : On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > : > Also, I'm pretty sure that you've misread the NetBSD sources, since I : > : > never see that output when I build NetBSD. : > : : > : Since I work with one of the NetBSD make maintainers, I'll ask him if : > : there is something I've missed, or something he's adjusted on this. : > : > The format is different, and you can't turn it off... : : Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. NetBSD doesn't output : these headers (you only refered to "that output"), now you're saying : there is output but different? NetBSD produces different output, so I assumed that it wasn't the same thing. Warner ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
* David O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote: > > > I'm sorry I disagree. You're complaining about something that is > > > a feature of FreeBSD 1.x, 2.0 - 3.0, 4.4BSD, all NetBSD versions, > > > all OpenBSD versions, Sprite, and the Open Group's Open Development > > > Environment make. > > > > Nice. Well I've been using FreeBSD since 4.7, and I don't believe I've > > seen this once. > > Please note, FreeBSD 4.7 falls outside the FreeBSD versions I listed. I understand. I'm saying that you can't really use "it was there 10 years ago" as an argument. I can use "it was NOT there since at least 4.7" however, as _this is what people are used to now :) > > Not `BSD user', but just `user'. We can't take somethink that was > > used back in FreBSD 3.0 as common and expected thing. By least > > astonishment I mean: > > > > - I do not expect to see difference between plain make and parallel > > make. > > Why? It is operating differently. Do you expect to see any difference > in behavior between a UP or SMP kernel? It's only internal difference. I don't observe any changes in behaviour other than `SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched!' in dmesg and increased performance due to multiple cores usage. And sideeffects of SMP of course, like garbled kernel output (kernel: seScyonncdisn)g fdoirs kssy,s tvenmo dperso creesmsa i`nsiynngc.e.r.' to3 stop...0 0 done) :) Which should be of course fixed. > > - I do not expect extra messages > > Why doesn't all the extra output of: > > ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf (obj,depend,all,install) > ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf/doc (obj) > ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf/doc (depend) > ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf/doc (all) > > bother you? I expect the "make obj" or "make depend" step to just happen > nicely and quietly. But instead its there. Those messages is the part of world building process, you may either remove those or duplicate each 10 times, I won't say a word - those are makefiles tweaked for the most useful output for world/kernel build. But changing make is the very different case, as it affects not only kernel/world but everything and everybody. And, by the way, compare usefullness and readability of the quote above and what your change does to similar output: --- obj --- --- _proginstall --- sh /usr/src/tools/install.sh -s -o root -g wheel -m 555 ctfmerge /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/bin ===> games/fortune/strfile (obj,depend,all,install) --- obj --- --- _proginstall --- sh /usr/src/tools/install.sh -s -o root -g wheel -m 555 strfile /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/games ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf (obj,depend,all,install) --- obj --- ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf/doc (obj) --- obj --- --- depend --- ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf/doc (depend) --- all --- ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf/doc (all) > > - I do not expect behaviour change compared to previous version > > Eh? Software has 100,000's of behavior changes between versions. Useful and non-annoying ones, mostly, otherwise there's always arguing. > > Remember, make is not only used in FreeBSD kernel, but also in ports > > (I know -j is not widely used there, but I believe it will someday) > > I don't believe it will happen - I've had patches to add -j to ports > build for a long time, there has been very minimal interest in them. > The answer there has aways to be build multiple ports at the same time. > And so many ports aren't tested for '-j' builds it is naive to think the > vast majority of ports would build with '-j'. (my patch was an opt-in > for large things like gcc) Building multiple ports in parallel is indeed more effective, but as far as I know we don't have proper support for those as well (parallel writes to pkgdb will trash it). Also, ability to building multiple ports won't help as long as you only need to build one large port. Actually, what we need is standartize some basic knobs for -j support in ports, like: # add WITHOUT_JOBS to make.conf to disallow parallel builds # add ALLOW_JOBS to the port to allow building it in parallel MAKE_JOBS?= `sysctl -n kern.smp.cpus` .if !defined(WITHOUT_JOBS) && defined(ALLOW_JOBS) MAKE_ARGS+= -j MAKE_JOBS .endif I believe after that mailtainers will start to add ALLOW_JOBS to the ports which build successfully. Also, this may be added by default in say, cmake.mk, as it always generates safe makefiles. -- Dmitry Marakasov . 55B5 0596 FF1E 8D84 5F56 9510 D35A 80DD F9D2 F77D amd...@amdmi3.ru ..: jabber: amd...@jabber.ruhttp://www.amdmi3.ru ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:51:00AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <20090130173953.ga9...@dragon.nuxi.org> > "David O'Brien" writes: > : On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > : > Also, I'm pretty sure that you've misread the NetBSD sources, since I > : > never see that output when I build NetBSD. > : > : Since I work with one of the NetBSD make maintainers, I'll ask him if > : there is something I've missed, or something he's adjusted on this. > > The format is different, and you can't turn it off... Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. NetBSD doesn't output these headers (you only refered to "that output"), now you're saying there is output but different? -- -- David (obr...@freebsd.org) ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
In message: <20090130173956.ga9...@dragon.nuxi.org> "David O'Brien" writes: : On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:51:30AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > In message: <20090130015518.ga20...@hades.panopticon> : > Dmitry Marakasov writes: : > : * David E. O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote: : > : I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages: : > : - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA. : > : - Do break recognizeable make output people are used to : > : - Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example, : > : generated by cmake: : .. : > : There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this : > : out, as this will really annoy many people. : > : > This makes at least two requests... I hate them too. really really : > really hate them. -Q is default in all my trees. : > : > The real problem is that it exposes way too many internal target names : > that are totally baffling, even to me who has a lot of build : > experience. Also, it isn't clear how to use them. : > : > O'Brien says they were disabled in 1994 for no good reason without : > discussion, so he's turning them back on, without discussion. The : > project is a very different place than it was then, and doing this : > sort of thing is anti-social. : : s/1994/14-Nov-1998/ : : 100,000 of things change within FreeBSD without discission that : displeases some set of folks. That's nothing new, but I'm restoring : compatibility and functionailty, not removing it. Don't you have any ability to judge that this might be a bad thing? So far the voting I solicited is 100% in favor of getting rid of what you did... Usually that implies it is a bad commit... : I found src/Makefile.inc1 r134903 / rev 1.444 very noisy, but lived with : it. I don't care that -s now implies -Q, except that it still leaves so : much "noise" like r134903 / rev 1.444 and other output. : [Why the log message is about 'Unanimous Consent' and not verbosity?] Because I messed up on the commit. I also talked to a lot of people before making the commit, socialized the issue and got buy in from ru@ before making the change. : I wonder what % build speed improvement quieting that behind 'make -s' : would give? I should measure it. I believe that it won't be that much since the output is 1/10th the size of the latest commit... Warner ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
In message: <20090130173953.ga9...@dragon.nuxi.org> "David O'Brien" writes: : On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > Also, I'm pretty sure that you've misread the NetBSD sources, since I : > never see that output when I build NetBSD. : : Since I work with one of the NetBSD make maintainers, I'll ask him if : there is something I've missed, or something he's adjusted on this. The format is different, and you can't turn it off... Warner ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 05:56:27PM +, Dmitry Marakasov wrote: > * David O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote: > > I'm sorry I disagree. You're complaining about something that is > > a feature of FreeBSD 1.x, 2.0 - 3.0, 4.4BSD, all NetBSD versions, > > all OpenBSD versions, Sprite, and the Open Group's Open Development > > Environment make. > > Nice. Well I've been using FreeBSD since 4.7, and I don't believe I've > seen this once. Please note, FreeBSD 4.7 falls outside the FreeBSD versions I listed. > Not `BSD user', but just `user'. We can't take somethink that was > used back in FreBSD 3.0 as common and expected thing. By least > astonishment I mean: > > - I do not expect to see difference between plain make and parallel > make. Why? It is operating differently. Do you expect to see any difference in behavior between a UP or SMP kernel? > - I do not expect extra messages Why doesn't all the extra output of: ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf (obj,depend,all,install) ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf/doc (obj) ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf/doc (depend) ===> gnu/usr.bin/gperf/doc (all) bother you? I expect the "make obj" or "make depend" step to just happen nicely and quietly. But instead its there. > - I do not expect behaviour change compared to previous version Eh? Software has 100,000's of behavior changes between versions. > Remember, make is not only used in FreeBSD kernel, but also in ports > (I know -j is not widely used there, but I believe it will someday) I don't believe it will happen - I've had patches to add -j to ports build for a long time, there has been very minimal interest in them. The answer there has aways to be build multiple ports at the same time. And so many ports aren't tested for '-j' builds it is naive to think the vast majority of ports would build with '-j'. (my patch was an opt-in for large things like gcc) -- -- David (obr...@freebsd.org) ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
David O'Brien wrote: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:51:30AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: In message: <20090130015518.ga20...@hades.panopticon> Dmitry Marakasov writes: : * David E. O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote: : I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages: : - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA. : - Do break recognizeable make output people are used to : - Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example, : generated by cmake: .. : There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this : out, as this will really annoy many people. This makes at least two requests... I hate them too. really really really hate them. -Q is default in all my trees. The real problem is that it exposes way too many internal target names that are totally baffling, even to me who has a lot of build experience. Also, it isn't clear how to use them. O'Brien says they were disabled in 1994 for no good reason without discussion, so he's turning them back on, without discussion. The project is a very different place than it was then, and doing this sort of thing is anti-social. s/1994/14-Nov-1998/ 100,000 of things change within FreeBSD without discission that displeases some set of folks. That's nothing new, but I'm restoring compatibility and functionailty, not removing it. I found src/Makefile.inc1 r134903 / rev 1.444 very noisy, but lived with it. I don't care that -s now implies -Q, except that it still leaves so much "noise" like r134903 / rev 1.444 and other output. [Why the log message is about 'Unanimous Consent' and not verbosity?] I wonder what % build speed improvement quieting that behind 'make -s' would give? The point of his message is this is a community-based project and as such consensus is important. I have seen zero support for your change, only complaints. Change is change; you can't hide behind a claim you're restoring 10-year old behaviour. Sam ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:51:30AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <20090130015518.ga20...@hades.panopticon> > Dmitry Marakasov writes: > : * David E. O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote: > : I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages: > : - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA. > : - Do break recognizeable make output people are used to > : - Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example, > : generated by cmake: .. > : There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this > : out, as this will really annoy many people. > > This makes at least two requests... I hate them too. really really > really hate them. -Q is default in all my trees. > > The real problem is that it exposes way too many internal target names > that are totally baffling, even to me who has a lot of build > experience. Also, it isn't clear how to use them. > > O'Brien says they were disabled in 1994 for no good reason without > discussion, so he's turning them back on, without discussion. The > project is a very different place than it was then, and doing this > sort of thing is anti-social. s/1994/14-Nov-1998/ 100,000 of things change within FreeBSD without discission that displeases some set of folks. That's nothing new, but I'm restoring compatibility and functionailty, not removing it. I found src/Makefile.inc1 r134903 / rev 1.444 very noisy, but lived with it. I don't care that -s now implies -Q, except that it still leaves so much "noise" like r134903 / rev 1.444 and other output. [Why the log message is about 'Unanimous Consent' and not verbosity?] I wonder what % build speed improvement quieting that behind 'make -s' would give? -- -- David (obr...@freebsd.org) ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > Also, I'm pretty sure that you've misread the NetBSD sources, since I > never see that output when I build NetBSD. Since I work with one of the NetBSD make maintainers, I'll ask him if there is something I've missed, or something he's adjusted on this. -- -- David (obr...@freebsd.org) ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
2009/1/30 Erik Trulsson : > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 02:21:53PM +0100, Hartmut Brandt wrote: >> Erik Trulsson wrote: >> > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:02:15PM +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: >> >> 2009/1/30 David O'Brien : >> >> >> >>> compiler invocation must really bug you. Perhaps we should have the >> >>> quiet out put of the ncftp3 build where every complication takes only >> >>> 1 line: >> >>> >> >>>Compiling DStrCat.so: [OK] >> >>>Compiling DStrFree.so:[OK] >> >>>Compiling Dynscpy.so: [OK] >> >>>Compiling Strncpy.so: [OK] >> >>>Compiling strtokc.so: [OK] >> >>>..snip.. >> >> I'd vote for that being the default :) >> > >> > I would not. In fact I am quite happy that is not the default. >> > >> >> It's also the mode used by Linux kernel (note that it's not a pro or a >> >> contra argument in itself), e.g. >> > >> > True, and it is a PITA when there is a problem with the compilation, since >> > you need to add extra flags to the verbose output so you can find out what >> > flags the compiler actually was invoked with. >> >> I took that vote as a joke. It may only be a joke, right? > > It might well have been a joke. Probably was in fact, but I am not willing > to take any chances on that. I hoped that the over-the-top youtube video soundtrack would be a cue :) I was sure there was a video with parts of the Matrix soundtrack somewhere but I couldn't find it... But still, it's a long distance between what developers want and what users want. In this case, the best thing for non-developer users would be not to compile the system themselves but use bsdupdate for upgrading, so it makes sense to keep the build process tailored for developers. (on-topic: I've used FreeBSD since 4.2, I don't care what was in 4.4BSD). ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
In message: <20090130113402.gb92...@dragon.nuxi.org> "David O'Brien" writes: : On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:55:18AM +, Dmitry Marakasov wrote: : > * David E. O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote: : > : > I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages: : > - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA. : : Dmitry, : I'm sorry I disagree. You're complaining about something that is : a feature of FreeBSD 1.x, 2.0 - 3.0, 4.4BSD, all NetBSD versions, : all OpenBSD versions, Sprite, and the Open Group's Open Development : Environment make. David, I've said this before, and I'll say it again: The project is a very different place than in 1994 when 3.0 was released. You can't just unilaterally make such a large, use-visible feature change without discussion. Your history lesson is interesting, but we've moved beyond BSD in so many different ways. Also, I'm pretty sure that you've misread the NetBSD sources, since I never see that output when I build NetBSD. Warner ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
In message: <20090130015518.ga20...@hades.panopticon>
Dmitry Marakasov writes:
: * David E. O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote:
:
: I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages:
: - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA.
: - Do break recognizeable make output people are used to
: - Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example,
: generated by cmake:
:
: --- po/it.gmo ---
: [ 2%] Generating it.gmo
: --- po/kn.gmo ---
: [ 3%] Generating kn.gmo
: --- po/lv.gmo ---
: [ 3%] Generating lv.gmo
: --- po/nb.gmo ---
: [ 3%] Generating nb.gmo
:
: There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this
: out, as this will really annoy many people.
This makes at least two requests... I hate them too. really really
really hate them. -Q is default in all my trees.
The real problem is that it exposes way too many internal target names
that are totally baffling, even to me who has a lot of build
experience. Also, it isn't clear how to use them.
O'Brien says they were disabled in 1994 for no good reason without
discussion, so he's turning them back on, without discussion. The
project is a very different place than it was then, and doing this
sort of thing is anti-social.
Warner
: > Author: obrien
: > Date: Tue Jan 13 06:53:53 2009
: > New Revision: 187132
: > URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/187132
: >
: > Log:
: > Don't enable -Q by default - I've fixed the rescue build issue.
: >
: > Modified:
: > head/usr.bin/make/job.c
: > head/usr.bin/make/main.c
: >
: > Modified: head/usr.bin/make/job.c
: >
==
: > --- head/usr.bin/make/job.c Tue Jan 13 06:52:51 2009(r187131)
: > +++ head/usr.bin/make/job.c Tue Jan 13 06:53:53 2009(r187132)
: > @@ -2362,8 +2362,7 @@ Job_Init(int maxproc)
: > makeErrors = 0;
: >
: > lastNode = NULL;
: > -
: > - if ((maxJobs == 1 && fifoFd < 0) || beQuiet || beVerbose == 0) {
: > + if ((maxJobs == 1 && fifoFd < 0) || is_posix || beQuiet) {
: > /*
: > * If only one job can run at a time, there's no need for a
: > * banner, no is there?
: >
: > Modified: head/usr.bin/make/main.c
: >
==
: > --- head/usr.bin/make/main.cTue Jan 13 06:52:51 2009
(r187131)
: > +++ head/usr.bin/make/main.cTue Jan 13 06:53:53 2009
(r187132)
: > @@ -126,7 +126,7 @@ Boolean is_posix; /* .POSIX target seen
: > BooleanmfAutoDeps; /* .MAKEFILEDEPS target seen */
: > BooleanbeSilent; /* -s flag */
: > BooleanbeVerbose; /* -v flag */
: > -BooleanbeQuiet = TRUE; /* -Q flag */
: > +BooleanbeQuiet;/* -Q flag */
: > BooleancompatMake; /* -B argument */
: > intdebug; /* -d flag */
: > BooleanignoreErrors; /* -i flag */
: > @@ -519,6 +519,7 @@ rearg:
: > break;
: > case 'Q':
: > beQuiet = TRUE;
: > + beVerbose = FALSE;
: > MFLAGS_append("-Q", NULL);
: > break;
: > case 'q':
: > ___
: > svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list
: > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all
: > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
:
: --
: Dmitry Marakasov . 55B5 0596 FF1E 8D84 5F56 9510 D35A 80DD F9D2 F77D
: amd...@amdmi3.ru ..: jabber: amd...@jabber.ruhttp://www.amdmi3.ru
:
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Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
* David O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote:
> I'm sorry I disagree. You're complaining about something that is
> a feature of FreeBSD 1.x, 2.0 - 3.0, 4.4BSD, all NetBSD versions,
> all OpenBSD versions, Sprite, and the Open Group's Open Development
> Environment make.
Nice. Well I've been using FreeBSD since 4.7, and I don't believe I've
seen this once.
> Looking at my CSRG archive for usr.bin/make/job.c, all the back to:
>
> revision 5.1
> date: 1990/03/11 15:27:28; author: bostic; state: Exp;
> Initial revision
>
>
> So I'm not sure how it violates POLA for a BSD user.
Not `BSD user', but just `user'. We can't take somethink that was
used back in FreBSD 3.0 as common and expected thing. By least
astonishment I mean:
- I do not expect to see difference between plain make and parallel
make.
- I do not expect extra messages
- I do not expect behaviour change compared to previous version
Remember, make is not only used in FreeBSD kernel, but also in ports
(I know -j is not widely used there, but I believe it will someday)
and by users themselves. Common knowledge is that make does echo
commands executed by default. Then command's stdout/stderr may follow.
But there are NO extra messages by default.
> They are quite valuable when you have to unwind a broken parallel build.
>
> The UNIX way is also not hiding information. For folks reporting
> build problems, it is valuable to be able to triag their log rather
> than continuously telling folks to re-run their build non -j.
>
> If you want "silence is golden" then all the multitude of lines of
> compiler invocation must really bug you. Perhaps we should have the
> quiet out put of the ncftp3 build where every complication takes only
> 1 line:
>
> Compiling DStrCat.so: [OK]
> Compiling DStrFree.so:[OK]
> Compiling Dynscpy.so: [OK]
> Compiling Strncpy.so: [OK]
> Compiling strtokc.so: [OK]
> ..snip..
Have they modified make to display these? I doubt. I agree that
such logs are more readable, but it should be done in a way that
- does not affect third parties
- still is more customizable and verbose than --- $TARGETNAME ---
That is, change sys.mk:
.c:
${CC} ${CFLAGS} ${LDFLAGS} -o ${.TARGET} ${.IMPSRC}
.c:
.if defined (KERNEL_BUILDING) || defined (WORLD_BUILDING) # or how's that
checked
@echo "CC ${.TARGET}"
.endif
${CC} ${CFLAGS} ${LDFLAGS} -o ${.TARGET} ${.IMPSRC}
so it's only conditional for system compilation.
--
Dmitry Marakasov . 55B5 0596 FF1E 8D84 5F56 9510 D35A 80DD F9D2 F77D
amd...@amdmi3.ru ..: jabber: amd...@jabber.ruhttp://www.amdmi3.ru
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Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 02:21:53PM +0100, Hartmut Brandt wrote: > Erik Trulsson wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:02:15PM +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: > >> 2009/1/30 David O'Brien : > >> > >>> compiler invocation must really bug you. Perhaps we should have the > >>> quiet out put of the ncftp3 build where every complication takes only > >>> 1 line: > >>> > >>>Compiling DStrCat.so: [OK] > >>>Compiling DStrFree.so:[OK] > >>>Compiling Dynscpy.so: [OK] > >>>Compiling Strncpy.so: [OK] > >>>Compiling strtokc.so: [OK] > >>>..snip.. > >> I'd vote for that being the default :) > > > > I would not. In fact I am quite happy that is not the default. > > > >> It's also the mode used by Linux kernel (note that it's not a pro or a > >> contra argument in itself), e.g. > > > > True, and it is a PITA when there is a problem with the compilation, since > > you need to add extra flags to the verbose output so you can find out what > > flags the compiler actually was invoked with. > > I took that vote as a joke. It may only be a joke, right? It might well have been a joke. Probably was in fact, but I am not willing to take any chances on that. -- Erik Trulsson ertr1...@student.uu.se ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
Erik Trulsson wrote: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:02:15PM +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: 2009/1/30 David O'Brien : compiler invocation must really bug you. Perhaps we should have the quiet out put of the ncftp3 build where every complication takes only 1 line: Compiling DStrCat.so: [OK] Compiling DStrFree.so:[OK] Compiling Dynscpy.so: [OK] Compiling Strncpy.so: [OK] Compiling strtokc.so: [OK] ..snip.. I'd vote for that being the default :) I would not. In fact I am quite happy that is not the default. It's also the mode used by Linux kernel (note that it's not a pro or a contra argument in itself), e.g. True, and it is a PITA when there is a problem with the compilation, since you need to add extra flags to the verbose output so you can find out what flags the compiler actually was invoked with. I took that vote as a joke. It may only be a joke, right? harti ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:02:15PM +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: > 2009/1/30 David O'Brien : > > > compiler invocation must really bug you. Perhaps we should have the > > quiet out put of the ncftp3 build where every complication takes only > > 1 line: > > > >Compiling DStrCat.so: [OK] > >Compiling DStrFree.so:[OK] > >Compiling Dynscpy.so: [OK] > >Compiling Strncpy.so: [OK] > >Compiling strtokc.so: [OK] > >..snip.. > > I'd vote for that being the default :) I would not. In fact I am quite happy that is not the default. > > It's also the mode used by Linux kernel (note that it's not a pro or a > contra argument in itself), e.g. True, and it is a PITA when there is a problem with the compilation, since you need to add extra flags to the verbose output so you can find out what flags the compiler actually was invoked with. -- Erik Trulsson ertr1...@student.uu.se ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
2009/1/30 David O'Brien : > compiler invocation must really bug you. Perhaps we should have the > quiet out put of the ncftp3 build where every complication takes only > 1 line: > >Compiling DStrCat.so: [OK] >Compiling DStrFree.so:[OK] >Compiling Dynscpy.so: [OK] >Compiling Strncpy.so: [OK] >Compiling strtokc.so: [OK] >..snip.. I'd vote for that being the default :) It's also the mode used by Linux kernel (note that it's not a pro or a contra argument in itself), e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elR7x50XZSI ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:55:18AM +, Dmitry Marakasov wrote: > * David E. O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote: > > I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages: > - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA. Dmitry, I'm sorry I disagree. You're complaining about something that is a feature of FreeBSD 1.x, 2.0 - 3.0, 4.4BSD, all NetBSD versions, all OpenBSD versions, Sprite, and the Open Group's Open Development Environment make. Looking at my CSRG archive for usr.bin/make/job.c, all the back to: revision 5.1 date: 1990/03/11 15:27:28; author: bostic; state: Exp; Initial revision So I'm not sure how it violates POLA for a BSD user. They are quite valuable when you have to unwind a broken parallel build. There was no justification why the feature was changed in FreeBSD 3.1, other than presumably affordable multi-core/processor machines were not common at the time. > There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this > out, as this will really annoy many people. The UNIX way is also not hiding information. For folks reporting build problems, it is valuable to be able to triag their log rather than continuously telling folks to re-run their build non -j. If you want "silence is golden" then all the multitude of lines of compiler invocation must really bug you. Perhaps we should have the quiet out put of the ncftp3 build where every complication takes only 1 line: Compiling DStrCat.so: [OK] Compiling DStrFree.so:[OK] Compiling Dynscpy.so: [OK] Compiling Strncpy.so: [OK] Compiling strtokc.so: [OK] ..snip.. -- -- David (obr...@freebsd.org) ___ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
* David E. O'Brien (obr...@freebsd.org) wrote:
I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages:
- Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA.
- Do break recognizeable make output people are used to
- Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example,
generated by cmake:
--- po/it.gmo ---
[ 2%] Generating it.gmo
--- po/kn.gmo ---
[ 3%] Generating kn.gmo
--- po/lv.gmo ---
[ 3%] Generating lv.gmo
--- po/nb.gmo ---
[ 3%] Generating nb.gmo
There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this
out, as this will really annoy many people.
> Author: obrien
> Date: Tue Jan 13 06:53:53 2009
> New Revision: 187132
> URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/187132
>
> Log:
> Don't enable -Q by default - I've fixed the rescue build issue.
>
> Modified:
> head/usr.bin/make/job.c
> head/usr.bin/make/main.c
>
> Modified: head/usr.bin/make/job.c
> ==
> --- head/usr.bin/make/job.c Tue Jan 13 06:52:51 2009(r187131)
> +++ head/usr.bin/make/job.c Tue Jan 13 06:53:53 2009(r187132)
> @@ -2362,8 +2362,7 @@ Job_Init(int maxproc)
> makeErrors = 0;
>
> lastNode = NULL;
> -
> - if ((maxJobs == 1 && fifoFd < 0) || beQuiet || beVerbose == 0) {
> + if ((maxJobs == 1 && fifoFd < 0) || is_posix || beQuiet) {
> /*
>* If only one job can run at a time, there's no need for a
>* banner, no is there?
>
> Modified: head/usr.bin/make/main.c
> ==
> --- head/usr.bin/make/main.c Tue Jan 13 06:52:51 2009(r187131)
> +++ head/usr.bin/make/main.c Tue Jan 13 06:53:53 2009(r187132)
> @@ -126,7 +126,7 @@ Boolean is_posix; /* .POSIX target seen
> Boolean mfAutoDeps; /* .MAKEFILEDEPS target seen */
> Boolean beSilent; /* -s flag */
> Boolean beVerbose; /* -v flag */
> -Boolean beQuiet = TRUE; /* -Q flag */
> +Boolean beQuiet;/* -Q flag */
> Boolean compatMake; /* -B argument */
> int debug; /* -d flag */
> Boolean ignoreErrors; /* -i flag */
> @@ -519,6 +519,7 @@ rearg:
> break;
> case 'Q':
> beQuiet = TRUE;
> + beVerbose = FALSE;
> MFLAGS_append("-Q", NULL);
> break;
> case 'q':
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Dmitry Marakasov . 55B5 0596 FF1E 8D84 5F56 9510 D35A 80DD F9D2 F77D
amd...@amdmi3.ru ..: jabber: amd...@jabber.ruhttp://www.amdmi3.ru
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svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
Author: obrien
Date: Tue Jan 13 06:53:53 2009
New Revision: 187132
URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/187132
Log:
Don't enable -Q by default - I've fixed the rescue build issue.
Modified:
head/usr.bin/make/job.c
head/usr.bin/make/main.c
Modified: head/usr.bin/make/job.c
==
--- head/usr.bin/make/job.c Tue Jan 13 06:52:51 2009(r187131)
+++ head/usr.bin/make/job.c Tue Jan 13 06:53:53 2009(r187132)
@@ -2362,8 +2362,7 @@ Job_Init(int maxproc)
makeErrors = 0;
lastNode = NULL;
-
- if ((maxJobs == 1 && fifoFd < 0) || beQuiet || beVerbose == 0) {
+ if ((maxJobs == 1 && fifoFd < 0) || is_posix || beQuiet) {
/*
* If only one job can run at a time, there's no need for a
* banner, no is there?
Modified: head/usr.bin/make/main.c
==
--- head/usr.bin/make/main.cTue Jan 13 06:52:51 2009(r187131)
+++ head/usr.bin/make/main.cTue Jan 13 06:53:53 2009(r187132)
@@ -126,7 +126,7 @@ Boolean is_posix; /* .POSIX target seen
BooleanmfAutoDeps; /* .MAKEFILEDEPS target seen */
BooleanbeSilent; /* -s flag */
BooleanbeVerbose; /* -v flag */
-BooleanbeQuiet = TRUE; /* -Q flag */
+BooleanbeQuiet;/* -Q flag */
BooleancompatMake; /* -B argument */
intdebug; /* -d flag */
BooleanignoreErrors; /* -i flag */
@@ -519,6 +519,7 @@ rearg:
break;
case 'Q':
beQuiet = TRUE;
+ beVerbose = FALSE;
MFLAGS_append("-Q", NULL);
break;
case 'q':
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